February 26, 2025 • 49 mins
Bridget Todd joins us to delve into what is going on when it comes to companies dropping DEI initiatives, boycotts, the complexities of the whole situation and how to make our dollars (or lack of them) count.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
All the stuff I never told you, procure if I
hurt you, and welcome to a very special stuff we
never told you. We were so excited to be joined
once again by the very well read, the very well
(00:28):
missed Bridget Todd. We have missed you so much, Bridget.
We're so glad to have you.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Oh, you were very well missed. I missed you all
so much. Thanks for having me here, Like, uh, yeah,
I used to kind of rely on shooting the shooting
with y'all. I'm nice to have that outlet. I've missed
it so much. Thank you for having me here.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Then it took us twenty minutes to get to the
recording part because we were in such conversation. I was like, oh, yeah,
we actually need to do things, but I missed talking
so with Bridget.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
So we need to know all the details.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yes, yes, and you, I mean you always. There's so
much going on right now, and so much in the
technology sector and so much in so many sectors that
I just have a lot of trust in you, Bridget.
So you have been very well missed. Which is the Yeah,
I think something I just made up right then, But
(01:25):
I know this is a loaded question, how have you been?
What's been going on?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
If anyone watches Real Housewives of New York, there's a
meme of Derenda saying, how have I been? Not well,
that's that question. Not well, I mean I have I
have gone. I had the worst year of my life
last year, and I do want to say, like a
(01:51):
big part of that was Annie and Samantha, you both
really being such good friends and good collaborators and like
really giving me a lot of space, and so I
want to say, like, thank you for all the support.
And so I've had a personally rough go and then
on top of that everything else that's happening. It feels
(02:13):
like I went offline and when I came back, the
world was spiraling, and so, yeah, I have been experiencing
despair personally, and then I feel like everybody else kind
of also met me in despair, and it's like, oh,
we're all in despair together.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Welcome, which is essentially crying in each other's arms for
different reasons, but it all meshes together because the world's
on fire.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and here we are, like, yay, Bridget,
tell us about it.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Come talk to us about this stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Please, just make say some things.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Well, we were talking off Mike about how complicated it
is as people who make podcasts and make contact. It's
like you have to find this balance of like not
wanting to severely bum everybody out. And you know, we're
not just people who make podcasts, Like I listen to
podcasts for fun, and I find myself being like, you know,
I can't handle anything real right now, I need to
(03:10):
just distract myself with some fluff. I think. I think
we're all both as content creators and as people who
take in content and appreciate media, we're all trying to
find this like sweet spot. I don't know if y'all
listening can identify with this, but I've really been struggling
with how much to take in to not have me
completely be spiraling, and how much to take in to
(03:32):
keep me informed. So trying to find that balance.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Right I think the big conversation is like knowing that
we have a responsibility and making sure like we're not
the complete like we're we can't stop everything, but we
do have a responsibility in witnessing it and making sure
we're calling it out.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
But at the same time.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Sometimes that means that our well being is out the
window when we see too much?
Speaker 1 (04:01):
What do we see way too much?
Speaker 4 (04:04):
And so having that balance of being like, yes, I'm
ready to be refreshed and fight again is so hard
to do what it feels like it's a constant.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
New fight exactly.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
I saw this post that I feel like really summed
up where I'm at, where it was like, certainly, if
I read one more piece of content or one more
news article instead of going to sleep, I will feel
totally in control of what is happening. I yes, that
could have been written by me.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Oh my goodness. Yes, Well, okay, speaking of we were
discussing a friend of mine who every day is sending
me these texts where I can tell she feels she
has no control and I'm kind of like, you need
to you need to find something else. I don't not
all day, not all the time. This is not good
(04:52):
for you. But where we are going to talk about
one of the things she used to do to distract herself,
which was go to target the store. Target that was
like one of her favorite things, and now she's very
conflicted about all of it. And I know that we're
going to talk about that.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Brigitte, Yes, yes, and so I have to say, like,
shout out to Annie's friend because her and me both
I there's a Target that is very close to my apartment.
It's walking distance to my apartment. I will just like
walk around Target just for like a scenery change, like
the same way people will be like, oh, take a
walk in the park. I'm like, oh, let me see
what Target has. It's a terrible habit. Y'all can call
me out, like totally totally own that it's not good behavior.
(05:37):
But I heretofore have loved Target, Like there's just something
about walking around like they really like get the people
who are chopping there. And I think that's one of
the reasons why the whole thing with Target and DEI
is it feels personal to me. It feels kind of
heartbreaking because listen, Walmart stores like that.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
It's like they're not stores where.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
I would imagine there are people who see me and like,
you know, get me as a shopper. Target feels occupies
a very different space in my consciousness. So when I
hear that some effery is happening with Target, I really
don't like it. Does that make sense?
Speaker 4 (06:18):
Yeah, you definitely have to go through your list of like, well,
all that, I can't go there anymore.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
I can't, and your list starts.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Dwindling, especially when you like, for the longest time, we
kind of not champion because there's still a corporation at
the end.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
But for a while they were doing some things that were.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Like, Yay, finally you're doing some good initiatives at least
bringing on great products for a diverse group of people,
which is apparently the problem, and actually standing up for it.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
So it seemed so to come back and be like,
what the.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Hell exactly that? So I want to get into all
of that. But for folks who don't know what's going on,
the Trump administration kicked off with a grip of executive
orders I guess, like targeting wokeness through things like overhauling
DEI initiative. So this happened in the federal government. Like
currently right now, folks who work on anything even tangentially
(07:12):
DEI related within the federal government have been placed on leave.
I live in DC, and that that is like what's
happening with federal workers, both in the District of Columbia
and nationally is like a whole other conversation. It really
is horrible, and I think it will effect impact all
of us. I think we will all be less safe
because of it. So I wanted to name that. But
(07:35):
when it comes to DEI, it is not just the
public sector, because Trump also issued executive orders meant to
quash DEI programs in the private sector as well. He
directed agency heads to drop list of publicly traded companies
to investigate their DEI programs.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
So this is not a totally new thing.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
I know that. When I was on stuff I've ever
told you a while ago, we were talking about the
Supreme Court decision back in twenty twenty three about affirmative action.
So another sort of side effect of that Supreme Court
ruling was that some of these big private companies started
reassessing the legality of their programs after that ruling. So
it's not totally new. But Trump being in the White
(08:16):
House and sort of starting off his administration with, you know,
signaling all of this pressure on DEI programs really has
taken it to a new level.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yes, And I feel like a lot of companies have
come out of the woodwork, not just companies but other
like universities and all this, and they're like, yeah, we'll
just get rid of that as quickly as possible. It's
so ready to be like yep, okay, did want it? Gone?
Speaker 5 (08:39):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (08:39):
So like I mean so like as somebody who covers technology,
I have really I'll say, not shocked, but disappointed when
it comes to tech companies, how quickly they were like, look, gone,
gone gone. After having to sit through years of listing
to these companies talk about or maybe even lie about
the way that support women, LGBTQ people, black people like,
(09:03):
and I think with technology they have the power to
shape so much of our world and so much of
our culture that what they do really can set the tone.
And so yeah, it just sucks that we spent any
time at all pretending that these companies gave a crap
about any of us, And then how quickly they're like, oh,
just kidding. So I'll run through a little bit of
(09:24):
where we're at with some of these companies. So Facebook
just immediately went along with Trump like we'd be here
all day if I listed all the ways, but just
a taste, you know. Obviously, they rolled back their DII programs,
they rolled back fact checking immediately, they lifted restrictions on
saying things like quote women are property on their platforms,
(09:45):
and so if that is an attitude that you happen
to hold, that women are property, you can say that
on Facebook all day long and it is not a problem.
You also saw Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg doing things like
ordering the removal of tampons from all men's bathrooms in
company offices.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
So these weird things.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Where as Mashville put it, this decision was not about
cost cutting or efficiency. It took effort and served no
practical purpose and sent a clear message about the company's
shifting priority. So these things that are clearly like they're
not about cost cutting, they're not about, you know, making
the company more efficient. They're just about making it clear
(10:24):
where they're at, which mission accomplished, because I really have
a very clear understanding of where Facebook is at. Zuckerberg,
of course, went on a bunch of podcasts dressed like
a recently divorced nightclub promoter and talked about how Facebook
needs more quote masculine energy at their companies. Now. Now, again,
keep in mind, this is not a company that Time
magazine describes their current workforce as almost seventy percent mail.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
So I guess that's like not mail enough. We need
it to be more male.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
I don't know. I don't know how much more mail
you can get other than like one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
But okay, which is kind of like the opposite once
again of being like, you want to be really masculine,
but a part of your masculinity is like being impressive
to women. So will you being so impressive towards each other?
Like bro okay, which I kind of missed the days
where we were talking about him and fighting with Elon.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
I know you would go back to those days.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
How that?
Speaker 3 (11:17):
So he had a window where people didn't hate him.
And what's funny is that I was just reading this
study that was like, oh, remember when Mark Zuckerberg like
changed his look and was trying to go for like
a softer, gentler approach. Turns out everybody still hates him.
And I was like, oh, who even did who even
did this study? You're like, what, what's this's the study?
But there is a study that apparently that little window
(11:37):
where people didn't hate his guts did not last and
had no lasting impact. So he really squandered that tiny
sliver of goodwill that he got from people from that
like one week or whatever, people didn't completely hate his guts.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
Right, I think the whistle blowers in his life just
really was not having it. So I also missed them
me too.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Francis Hogan, where are you at?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Met you? I hope you're okay.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
Speaking of big companies, we know, like there were several
big CEOs and executives that were aligned and excited to
do exactly what Trump has been wanted to do, including Amazon, right.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yeah, they scaled back their DEI programs pretty quickly. Google,
I will say two companies that did not immediately scale
back to EI or Apple and Microsoft. Both of those
companies kind of reaffirmed their commitment to DEI. Companies are
so companies. So I don't want to be like giving
them too much rav rock credit. Microsoft has been very
(12:44):
chummy with Trump. But I do want to give credit
where credit is due on DEI specifically because I do
think like it's a choice. You know that one of
the big companies that did not scale back TOI that
we'll talk more about in a bit is Costco, Right,
and so these companies, even despite these executive orders, these
companies don't have to immediately comply. Immediately complying with these
(13:06):
executive orders is a choice, right, And so I wouldn't
even Like a lot of people have described this moment
as sort of a mask off moment, especially when it
comes to tech companies, I wouldn't even say I agree
with this. I don't think that these companies have like
necessarily not wanted to do inclusion work all along. I
(13:29):
don't think that that. I think the people who run
these companies will just align themselves with whoever is in
power and whatever is the favorable position at the moment,
and so I don't even think it's a mask off moment.
Like I don't think Mark Zuckerberg is showing his true colors.
I don't think he has true colors. These are people
who not who don't have genuine values or backbone. And
(13:49):
so if you don't really have if you don't really
value anything, it's not really a mask off moment because
your value is just power and money, right.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
And it's interesting because we've had so many.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Conversations about places like Google and tech companies like them,
and how their initial setup was kind of like we're
the cool nerds that you want to come work for.
We're the ones that's offering you know, unlimited PTO, but
we really don't think you should take it we're the
ones that's bringing in women of color to be leaders,
but not really because if we want to fire them
because they're talking too much and giving too many suggestions, Like,
(14:22):
it's interesting to see how quickly that they were like, oh,
finally we don't have to pretend to be the cool
nerds and just be uh at the alpha males that
we've been training to be essentially.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
So I actually think you're spot on, and I do
think we really need to have more conversations about the
cultural dynamic of some of these tech leaders and some
of these tech companies, because I think it is how
we sort of got into this mess in some ways,
because you know, if you think back to like, you know,
think back to the day the early days of platforms
(14:55):
like Instagram, the early days of iPhone technology and the
people made it occupied a very specific place in our
cultural popular imagination. Right, it was Google offices that looked
really cool, that had pinball machines and open offices. Right.
Google's motto used to be don't be evil until they
dropped that motto officially in twenty eighteen. I think they
(15:18):
might have just taken off the don't right. Maybe it's
now like a little bit evil for a treat is fine.
I think that we gave them so much space and
so much runway to be these cool nerds who we're
going to be using technology to improve all of our lives,
and we kind of trusted that that's what they were doing.
And I think that because of that trust, now when
(15:39):
we check back in and it's like, wait, are you
guys actually still invested in building a better future, and
they're like, now, we're invested in making money through exploiting you. Actually,
I think that's where we're at, And so I think
it's really you're so right.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
To bring up that sort of cultural.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Dynamics that are running some of these companies and in
tune shaping our understanding and attitude around them.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah. I mean, I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
One of the best, most like immediate examples was TikTok
TikTok with that's like trying to fight the government. I'm
here for you, We're here for your voice and where
we want to represent for your First Amendment rights, and
then being like, oh, we love Donald Trump. He's gonna
save us. Let's give money to him. Like it's such
a switch quick turnaround. We were all like oh, we
were rooting for you for a split second, like we
(16:25):
were kind of doubting you and a few things. But
now like, oh, they were such a quick turnaround of
exactly what we saw play out, except it took a
little while longer.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
I had the exact same feeling, Like I remember thinking, oh,
TikTok Ceo is like this young guy, he's so savvy
blah blah blah. How quickly he turned heel right, So like,
don't trust any of these leaders. I don't care how
savvy they look. I don't care how young they are.
Like tech, a tech company will break your heart. A
tech company will exploit you get rich off of it,
(16:56):
and then expect you to champion them like a damn
luminary because it absolutely.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
I mean again Target.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
For a split secondly, we really were like, oh, they're
bringing in black women own products, and we want to
cheer that on. They're standing up for the LGBTQ plus community.
We love that, you know, really seeming like their pain
beyond their minimum wage and people are being like, we're excited,
and then it turned to this.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
Yeah, so let's get into it.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
So on January twenty fourth, Target announced they were going
to be rolling back their DEI initiatives, including programs to
foster and promote black owned businesses in its stores. This
is following Trump's signing of the executive order ending DEI
programs federally. So they sent around a memo by staff
member Kira Fernandez, Target's chief Community Impact and Equity officer
(17:44):
and a black woman herself. In this memo, the company
said they were going to stop conducting external diversity surveys
and submitting information to the Human Rights Campaign Corporate Equality Index,
which evaluates corporate policies on LGBTQ plus inclusion. The memo said,
quote twenty twenty five will be accelerating action in key
areas and implementing changes with the goal of driving growth
(18:06):
and staying in step with the evolving external landscape. And so,
just like what you were saying, Sam, this is particularly
notable because Target really did seem like one of those
retailers that was making and signaling investment in things like inclusion,
especially after twenty twenty. So Target their headquarters is based
(18:26):
in Minneapolis, where George Floyd was killed. So in twenty twenty,
Target reiterated its racial Equity Action and Change initiative, which
involves things like anti racism training for employees and prioritize
hiring and promoting black staff, and they really look to
grow the number of black owned businesses at Target. In
twenty twenty one, Target pledged to invest two billion in
(18:47):
black owned businesses by the end of twenty twenty five
as part of this program. And so here's the thing
that I always like to talk about when it comes
to things like DEI and inclusion. These programs don't just
exist because they're like the nice thing to do, which
they are. They're good business. They make companies money. These
companies exist to make money, and it turns out that
(19:09):
inclusion is good for business. Target's chief executive officer Brian
Cornell told Fortunes Leadership Next podcast in twenty twenty three
that all of these like inclusion and diversity focused initiatives quote,
fueled so much of our growth over the last nine years.
So they are definitely cashing in and making money off
of traditionally marginalized people as a consumer block.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
I wonder how close to that goal were they when
five happened, like to giving those billions in investments, Like,
were they actually that closed or maybe I wonder conspiracy
theories like they were nowhere near something like let's just
roll it back and pretend like it never happened because
we're not going to meet this.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
I mean, that wouldn't surprise me whenever. So this is
like like a hot tip for listeners. Whenever our company
is like we pledge to do xyz thing, right, it's
always good have just to follow up because half the
time they've done nothing and they're just like not counting
on anybody following up. So it's like they can say anything.
Speaker 5 (20:05):
They could say we.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Pledged to do whatever, and it's like if if no
one's following up, they can just get all the good
pr and goodwill without actually doing the thing that they
voluntarily said they were gonna do.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Right, no one asked for these numbers.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
You brought this up this I'm sure you've run into
this before. Bridget as a medium that depends on advertisers sometimes,
like during like Pride Month, they'll be like this company
is gonna do this and do this and do this,
and I'll be like, okay, tell me how silence. I
never hear from them again, Like.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah, I wasn't expecting I wouldn't have said that up.
Speaker 5 (20:44):
I thought you were gonna like ask the follow up.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Asking basically people to donate to your companies that you're
gonna donate, like, well, what are you gonna do though?
Speaker 4 (20:56):
What you to those organizations and then write it off
as their taxes as if they donated the money and
not the customers obviously any come.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
On, so naive.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
I am honestly like that whole rolling up of like
the change and then everybody's like, don't do that because
they're using this as a tax break.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I'm like, oh, yeah, that's sell bug. Oh damn it.
Yeahy so evil.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
I mean, like that's the thing. Like I want to
be clear, it's not like I'm it's not like like
I ask someone who is very critical of things like capitalism.
I didn't think Target was really my friend or really
my ally even when they did this stuff. So it's
not I'm not expecting any corporation or any company to
like truly meaningfully be an ally. But I do think
(21:45):
these companies that go out of their way to signal
to me, you know, as a black woman consumer, that
like we care about you, we we like understand that
you are fueling our profit margins, or like let's try
to be aligned with like give you the customer experience
that you want. I do think that matters, and so
especially a company like Target, I don't know if folks
(22:07):
really understand the role that Target plays, especially for Black women,
like you know, back in the day. So look, if
you like, back in the day when I first grew
my hair out natural, there were not a lot of
mainstream stores where you could walk in and find a
well stocked natural hair care aisle. Target was one of
(22:28):
the first, right, and so it really I think went
another way to curry a lot of favor with Black
women as a consumer base because of that kind of thing,
being like, oh, what is it that you actually use,
What is it that you're actually looking for? How can
we fill the niches in your you know, shopping situation.
I think Target did that very well, and I think
it really positioned them as a place where they were
(22:52):
signaling to the people who actually give them money, like, Hey,
we see y'all, we know what y'all need, we know
what we're listening to you. As the cup points out,
the retailers. Black owned brands span categories from home to
apparel and beauty, including hair care brands The Dough Camille, Rose,
and the viral mel and beauty brand the lip Bar.
(23:12):
These brands fill avoid in the market, making products for
various skin tones and hair textures available. For example, the
dough has its viral curl defining moves beloved by the
natural hair community.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
So it really did.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Play a particular role I think in a lot of
black women's shopping diets.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, I mean, and it was like you said, a
mainstream store to do it, and it felt I don't know,
we like you said, we have said their companies they're
not allies, but it felt nice to be like, Okay,
I can go here and this place is with me.
(23:55):
Kind of gets me. This seems like a it doesn't
feel as bad that I'm going here, you know, I
don't feel the same guilt maybe right else.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
I think this also brings into the conversation about the
fact that they need to like erase this as in
like take this out because of why so this is
obviously a bigger conversation and trying to make a publicity
stunt essentially just like bringing off products and bringing saying
(24:28):
like okay, so diversity in equity and inclusion in these
being what does that mean exactly? And in this conversation.
It's pretty much saying, Okay, we will now exclude a
certain group of people that were excluded previously before this time,
and by doing so, we're going to make white supremacists
(24:49):
feel more comfortable because they were uncomfortable with I don't know,
shopping with people of color, like such a conversation like
they but why why is this so important that Target
needs to do this, Like they were making money off
of this and they're so afraid of or I guess
maybe they are just white supremus one of those two
things in order to satisfy a group of people who
(25:15):
didn't even know it was a thing. For like the
longest time. People were just like, oh what is this
new stuff? Okay, moved on, except when people finally said
this is black oman, They're like, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
What. Yeah. I mean, that's a really good question. I
honestly think that in this moment, it's just about signaling
alignment with Trump and the new administration. I think that, like,
you know, Target has been making good money off of
marketing toward marginalized people, right, I mean, y'all remember when
(25:45):
the last time that Target was in the crosshairs of
a lot of extremists because they had a well stocked,
robust pride section for pride things like that, like and
Target caved on that. Like I will say, like, so,
I think it really just illustrates that these companies, whatever
is in power, whatever is the like, they don't actually
(26:09):
have values or backbones, and we shouldn't necessarily even be
expecting them to. They'll they'll just cave and bend to
whoever is in power. And what makes it even more
frustrating is like after they they will do that, after
they signaled that they want to be more aligned with
these communities. So Chantel Powell, who is a black entrepreneur
(26:29):
who makes a deodorant for kids called play Pits, which
was stocked at Target, she put it really well. She said, quote,
it's frustrating corporations jumped on the bandwagon to support black
businesses when it was trendy. Now that it's easier to
discard us, that's what they're doing. And so yeah, I
just don't think that these companies give a crap. Really,
they it's all posturing, it's all signaling, like they don't
(26:52):
really have any kind of like values to genuinely stick
to or a firm like in moments of you know, upheaval.
Speaker 5 (27:00):
Well, the thing that you can.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Always go back to as your north star is values.
Like as a contact creator, I had to have a
whole conversation when Trump took power of like, well, what
are my values and what am I doing in this
moment to actually serve the people that I want to
be in community with you. When you have values, that
is always your north star. These companies do not have
any value, so of course they're going to blow wherever
the wind.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
Blows, right, They're going to do the bottom line, which
there's so much again, like in this conversation about how
who was easily discarded first? And this is all about
the virtue signaling, as they want to say, because as
robust as their like stock was, it wasn't you still
have to like purposely find it. And it was a
(27:44):
shock to see it, like it's I remember the many
times we're like, oh that's cute. Oh look it's you
know a black owner or a black creator who did this.
That's amazing because it's one out of one hundred, you know,
to see it was notable because there wasn't that many.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
So even the most like.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
Diverse products were just literally one out of fifty one
out of one hundred, Like, it still wasn't.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
I remember back when extremists were targeting Target because of
the pride stuff and the LGBTQ stuff, people would get
upset because Target sold chest binders right for trans folks,
and it's like, okay, so you don't need a chest binder.
Why is it so horrible that like, out of out
of what one hundred, It's like when you go into
the underpant section of Target, ninety nine point nine percent
(28:31):
of garments are designed for SIS people and they have
one product for trans people, and it's the end of
the world. Like, how is that really the biggest complaint
that you can make right now?
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Right?
Speaker 4 (28:42):
I mean our sports bras alone, yes, are just as
offensive to me sometimes, But anyway, why would you uh no,
in all of those statements. It really like, as much
as we want to tell that they were inclusive, they weren't.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
And the amount of.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
Hate that people will give in order to make a
sleep again, we know that haters in general want to
want to create controversy, so they would go out trying
to look for anything that they're like, this is controversial,
this is this? Why does this have to be this
and half the time again it was misinformation or disinformation
and being like, uh, this black product for the black
(29:22):
community was often created by white corporations.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Like we saw that many times.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Absolutely absolutely so when Target announced their intention to pull
back from these initiatives, people were not happy. Some like
Minneapolis Council Member Jason Chavez and Strike for All, which
is an advocacy organization run by former Senator Nita Turner,
called for a boycott of Target in response, which is
currently still going on. This was a little bit tricky
(29:50):
in that Target backing away from DEI does not mean
that like black and brown owned companies are going to
be you know, pulled from the shelves. And so you
saw a lot of black creators and black entrepreneurs being like, well, wait,
if you boycott Target and you're not going to go
to Target, it will hurt us even more because that's
less people who are buying our items from the shelves.
(30:10):
Maya Smith, who is a black woman and the founder
of the Dough the haircare brand, shared the statement on Instagram,
saying pulling black dollars from these retailers doesn't hurt the
corporations as much as it hurts the brands you love.
It also feeds into false narratives that we're only here
because of DEI initiatives, not because of the countless sacrifices
and creativity we've poured into creating a lasting impact on
(30:32):
the textured hair category. Through the dough you might say like, oh, well,
I'll just buy directly from this brand rather than buying
it from Target. But Powell, the founder of Playpits That
Kids deodorant company, said that buying directly online might not
actually be so helpful for some of these black owned brands.
She said, big box retailers are a predictable revenue stream.
(30:54):
Online I might make two thousand dollars one day and
two hundred the XT but with Target, I have a
consistent flow of income. It's also a convenient opportunity for
my customers to shot my products. For moms, convenience is key,
and so I get where these creators are coming from.
I do want a spotlight that one of my favorite
black creators who has the brand Oh Happy Danny, immediately
(31:17):
announced that she was cutting ties with Target and like
phasing her stuff off the shelves as soon as Target
made this announcement.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
But you know, I do understand the.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Complexities here because it is not a clear cut situation,
and I don't want to say that I have the answer,
but I understand that people want solidarity from some of
these black creators that they see on the shelves at Target.
But I also understand that, hey, if you're a black
creator and a black entrepreneur, you do have a harder
(31:48):
time compared to your non black counterparts, right, And so
you know, people are basically saying, like, well, why should
I be expected to miss out even more because of
a decision that Target made.
Speaker 5 (31:58):
I can really understand both Bosi.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
Right, It's one thing to say we're gonna boycott McDonald's
and Starbucks and the such, but doing specific things with
these creators who have brands, it's it is hard. Like
we talked about the fact that also it's really hard
for individuals in general, uh to try to figure out
what's a good company, because all these grocery stores or
(32:21):
all these stores they have something, whether it's anti union,
whether they don't pay their employees enough, or whether they're
rolling back DEI, or whether they you know, gave to
the Republican Party or Donald Trump themselves. It's really hard
to try to do conscientious buying when you are stuck.
And again, we talked about disabilities previously, about how it's
(32:42):
also impossible, uh to not do delivery service for a
lot of disabled people, even though like corporations like Amazon
is awful, however they give access to those who can't
go well, Like, it's such a hard conversation about what
to do and how to truly support without hurting the
people you're t find a support.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Yeah, I've really been struggling with this in my personal
life as well, Like I am trying to boycott Target
and Amazon. But you know, easy for me to say
as an able bodied person with discretionary income and no kids, right, Like,
if you're a busy new parent or somebody with a disability,
(33:24):
I don't regard to you anything that you got to
do to get through the day. But I know that
I personally do have some wiggle room, right, And so
what's been interesting to me is I'm I wouldn't say
I'm boycotting any particular company for any particular stance. However,
I'm really just reassessing the role that these companies play
in my habits more generally, right, Like Amazon is a
(33:47):
terrible company. They are terrible for the world in so
many reasons. And Amazon's owner Jeff Bezos is incredibly buddy
buddy with Trump. When Trump was inaugurated, you saw the
whole line of tech, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos. I live
in DC, Jeff Bezos owns Amazon. Jeff Bezos owns where
(34:08):
I get my healthcare, one medical he bought that. Jeff
Bezos owns my local newspaper, The Washington Post. He owns that.
Jeff Bezos owns where I do my grocery shopping, Whole Foods,
he owns that. Like how much of my life does
one billionaire get to control? And so it's not even
about one specific policy, It's more that I am trying
(34:28):
to reject that entire dynamic. And one way that I'm
doing that on a small personal level is just trying
to buy shop small, shop local, my local places when
I can, and shop less in general, Like do I
need to be consuming so much? Who is this supporting?
Who am I empowering with my dollar when I go
in and mindlessly buy something I don't even really need.
(34:50):
And so I don't think it has to be some
kind of a big boycott necessarily you can just through
small ways decide to know, I want to participate in
this kind of like an economy less and less, and
I just think that's true for so many people.
Speaker 4 (35:06):
Right, But yeah, we still have to keep in consideration
and like as a whole who has the privilege to
do that? You know, we talked about you and I
and Annie have reliable cars that can take us places.
I said, Annie has a dot dot dot because her
car's getting there.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Annie questioned, Mark, her handa is still running. Not a sponsor.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
This is kind of going off topic, and I do
want to ask what your thoughts are because I've seen
a few posts saying like February twenty eighth is a
blackout day where people being told don't buy anything, don't
consume anything. Let that be the day that no one
buys things. If you can, are those things like are
those things effective? Does that do where one day a
(36:00):
lot more people do not consume and so therefore like
kind of make a dip in that day? Are things
like that a viable way of protesting some of these
evil corporations?
Speaker 5 (36:11):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (36:11):
I think absolutely.
Speaker 5 (36:13):
So.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
It's funny that you bring this up because I was
just reading a post on Reddit by that witchy lady
was like three why's and they said the title of
the post is to those saying boycotts won't work. From
a former retail worker, and they write, I keep seeing
misinformation being spread to the tune of boycotts don't work,
No one cares, They'll be back at Target and no time.
(36:34):
I'm here to share my experience as a retail worker.
I've worked retail at four different chains, and I asked
with other retail workers chime in. They absolutely have the
ability to work because these businesses care way more about
their numbers than the average consumer who has never worked
retail realizes. When I was working for corporate owned women's
clothing store, we could hourly updates about meeting our goals
literally piped into our ears. Numbers got reported to the
(36:56):
team daily. Everyone knew when we were hitting our goals
and when we weren't. When we were pushed to sell, sell, sell,
I was just a tiny little cog in the machine.
But if that's what's being said and pressured onto me,
imagine what these big wigs and their boardrooms are talking about.
I think that the February twenty eight economic boycott has
the power to scare them. Why because I saw my
direct managers upset over these numbers on an hourly basis.
(37:18):
Please join the economic boycott on February twenty eighth. You know,
money talks, which is why they are trying so hard
to tell you that it doesn't matter. They're doing it
because it does matter. So that's just one retail worker's opinion.
But I got to think that they're on the money
with something because you know, especially in a time where
we don't feel like we have a lot of power
or a lot of agency or a lot of voice,
(37:39):
our money, our spending power, our economic power really does
have weight. Like that is power.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Right.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
I'm glad you read that because I go back and
forth on again understanding what is effective on what isn't,
whether a boycott is or isn't effective, Who is able
to do what and participate in who is being hurt
by some of these protests of cause I don't give
a about the corporation who know they're evil, I'm not
talking about them in general, but like again, like the
(38:07):
entrepreneurs who have products in these different companies that I've.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Also seen them talk about Amazon, like.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
That does help with cells, It gives me money, like
it gives us whatever ratings or whatnot, which again I'm
not touting Amazon.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
I've paused my membership and all of that. I've done
it because I.
Speaker 4 (38:22):
Was, like, I feel too dirty because I was depending
on it so much, because I didn't want to go
out to target and actually walk about and see people.
But all of that in conversation of like, if this
does work, then we need to be shouting it louder,
because yeah, we want to at least be effective and
doing the things as effectively as possible if we are
(38:43):
able to do so, and being prepared for it. And honestly,
outside of a couple of TikTok posts, I haven't seen
much about it.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
Have y'all the economic blockout? Yeah I have, But I
am like pretty deep into a lot of like buy
nothing jam the cogs of capitalism in these small ways
online spaces. But I guess I'm curious if my friends
who were like not in those spaces, if they're seeing
(39:09):
any of it at all. People listening might be like,
there's an economic boycott on February twenty.
Speaker 5 (39:13):
Eighth being planned.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
I've never heard of it.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
You haven't, So that's the question is, like how widely.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
Is it being spread? Hey, y'all, there's an economic blackout
on the twenty eighth of February. If you're listening to
this on the day is released, Yeah, the part we're podcasts.
I don't know when this is going to be.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
So here's a little bit of information I just found. So,
according to CBS, behind the boycott as a group called
the People's Union USA, a self described grassroots organization founded
by John Schwartz, a fifty seven year old dad from Queens,
New York, who said that he's been promoting the consumer
blackout for weeks on social media. The People's Union says
it has no political affiliation, but focuses on quote fairness,
(39:53):
economic justice, and real systemic change. So the call to action,
or rather in action, is asking that American consumers refrain
from making any purchases at major retailers on Friday, February
twenty eighth. The protest comes as people continue to endure
rising prices on everything from food to gas, to housing
and new utilities, epitomized by the soaring cost of eggs,
(40:13):
which in January averaged four to ninety five a dozen.
Speaker 5 (40:17):
So, yeah, that is the information. If you're interested in participating.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
You can go online and find out more, but I
understand because like again, like it for me, it's really
not about any one policy or store. It's like I
do not want to continue to participate in an economic
system that just continues to exploit me. And I understand that,
Like we're in capitalism, so what am I gonna do?
(40:41):
But like I can do in small ways, I can
opt out of that system more and more, like I've
been really you know, it's it sounds so small and stupid,
and in some ways I understand that it is. But
like I've been growing herbs on my balcony, so when
I need fresh herbs, I'm not running to Target. I
just have them on my balcony. I've been cooking more
(41:01):
at home. I've been like, rather than going on and
buying new stuff, I'm like using free groups and like
you know things like that, of like I just want
to participate in this economy less and less because it
is just so exploitative, right, And just.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
Coming back on track onto all the information that you
are bringing us, like this is that conversation once again
when I come back in the confused era of like
DEI and why it's so offensive to people and why
they think is so harmful when in actuality it's not.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
Well, you know who definitely doesn't find it harmful, and
that's Costco. So the same climate that had companies like
Target abandoning their DEI initiatives and their inclusion work so quickly,
Costco exists in that same environment and guess what, they
didn't cave on anything.
Speaker 5 (41:50):
So to be.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Super clear, I know I've said this before, but DEI
and inclusion is not just like the right thing to do.
It is profitable. It makes companies money, you know, just
like that Target executive saying that supporting inclusion in twenty
twenty made the company money. Being able to cast a
wide net when you're doing things like hiring and being
able to attract all different kinds of people who want
to spend money with your brand is good business. So
(42:14):
Costco got approached by the Trump administration and was trying
to be They were trying to pressure Costco into dropping
their DEI programs, and Costco basically was like, no, our
programs are fine, y'all can kick rocks. Nineteen attorneys general
led by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, which by the way,
he's a real piece of work. Google him if you've
(42:35):
got a Sabera minut, because he's a real piece of work.
And Iowa Attorney General Brenna BirdAir are currently trying to
pressure Costco into abandoning their DEI initiatives. They sent Costco
a letter saying, with three hundred thousand employees, Costco likely
has at least two hundred thousand employees who are potentially
victims of a legal discrimination because they are white, Asian
mail or straight. Even if only a fraction of those
(42:56):
employees were to file suit and only some of these
proof successful, the cost to Costco could be tens of
billions of dollars. So that's like pretty clearly a threat
to essentially extort Costco. Costco's board's response was, our board
has considered this proposal and believe that our commitment to
an enterprise rooted in respect and inclusion is appropriate and necessary.
(43:18):
The report requested by this proposal would not provide meaningful
additional information to our shareholders, and the board thus unanimously
recommends a vote against this proposal.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
First of all, I hate that they included as but
I know they do, but like I'm still like, ah,
it's not that. But all these things I will say
on a good note because there was a moment where
I was iffy with Costco for a split second. I
was like, I can't go nowhere because there had an
almost union strike. However, before it could go down, Costco
(43:51):
followed the lead and actually worked with the unionized members
and gave them the raises that they deserved.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
So kudos. It worked out.
Speaker 4 (43:59):
It took a little pressuring, but I'm glad to know
that they're not anti union, so that is a plus
BT dubs, because that's one of the big questions. Like
the last five years, I feel like I've just seen
more and more conversations about whether it's DEI or it's
anti union, and I'm like, why do you have to
be so mean to your people's But like seeing that
they were able to actually be on top of it
(44:21):
is nice, nicest, not on top of it, but finally
like understanding everything from every aspect. It felt like, Okay,
maybe I need to buy a freezer from them so
I can store the large amounts of food that they sell.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
I mean, I find there one dollar fifty cents hot
dogs delightful and my late father rest his soul. He
loved to brag about how you could return anything to
Costco for cash no matter what. He was like a
real abuser of that policy.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
You know what I do, what you gotta do.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
And you know, am I saying this because I think
that like Costco is some like idealist crusader. Ally I'm
sure they're vorable in a million other ways, But I
think that they are a company that likes making money,
and they have done the math and they have probably
realized that their DEI and inclusion policies help them make money.
And it seems like, honestly, I have to say like,
(45:15):
it does seem like Target is experiencing some financial consequences here.
To be clear, retail shopping is down generally in part
I think because of things like inflation and rising prices
and economic uncertainty and like changing consumer habits. But Target
and Walmart both saw their retail numbers fall in the
wake of pulling their DEI initiatives, while Costco did not. Again,
(45:37):
I don't specifically know if this is because of the
boycott or because of DEI, but this is according to
retail brew foot traffic is down at Target stores. According
to data from placer Ai prepared exclusively for retail brew
In the week that began January twenty seven, foot traffic
fell four percent, then fell eight point six percent the
week beginning February third, and three point nine percent the
(45:59):
week beginning February tenth. This was the first drop in
traffic this year for Target, with foot traffic for the
first four weeks of twenty twenty five up between five
percent and eleven point eight percent.
Speaker 5 (46:09):
Walmart was the same. Meanwhile, Costco has seen traffic rise
for the same three week period, up by five point
eight percent on the week beginning January twenty seven, five
point seven percent on the week beginning February third, and
four point six percent on the week beginning February tenth.
So is this the result of like people boycotting Target,
(46:29):
not going to Target, you know, not wanting to shop
at places that have these kinds of policies.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (46:35):
But what I do know is that women have money.
Speaker 3 (46:38):
In fact, most financial decisions being made in households are
being made by women. Black people have money, Queer people
have money, trans people have money. We spend money. We
have real economic power. And I think all of us
really have to understand that. And like understand what that means,
that it matters where we put our money, it matters
who we choose to financially support, and like, and I
(47:01):
agree with that person's comment on Reddit that like the
fact that they keep trying to convince us that it's
not powerful, it doesn't matter, should be a signal to
all of us that it actually does.
Speaker 4 (47:11):
Yeah, you're right, with all the misinformation and disinformation that
we get, it wouldn't be surprising that corporate people would
want us to think this doesn't work so that we
would stop doing it.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Yeah, like, no, I you haven't hurt me at all,
And secretly they're getting those numbers. Oh no, Yeah, Yeah,
it'll be interesting to see what happens. And I know,
I know for a lot of us, US and our listeners,
(47:45):
it is something that we're all wrestling with these ways
we can make these changes in this system, and there's
so many different factors to it. But yeah, I definitely
where you put your money and who you choose to
support with your money, that's a big one. That's a
big one, very.
Speaker 3 (48:02):
Important, especially now like this is the tapic And again
just I think I've said this, but I want to
pay it clearly, like easy for me to say, I
am a I'm not a parent. I live in an
easily walkable community, you know, I am able bodied, like
easy for me to say. But like if you're someone
for who that is the case, you can, you can,
(48:22):
you know, be choosy about how and where you spend
your money. Not everybody has that luxury. And if you
are somebody who's listening who does, that's great, Like we
should be the people who are making those kinds of decisions.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Yes, absolutely, well, thank you so much, Bridget. We're so
happy to have you back on. It was so good
to talk with you. Where can the good listeners find you?
Speaker 3 (48:45):
Ah, this has been a pleasure. I miss shooting the
s with you all. And if you want to shoot
the s with me, you can listen to my podcast
or our girls on the internet or follow me on
Instagram at Bridget Marie and DC.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Yes, yes and go do that listeners, And if you
would like to contact us you can you can email
us at hello at Stuffwenever Told You dot com. You
can find us on Blue Sky at mom Stuff podcast,
or in Instagram and TikTok at stuff w Never Told You.
We're also on YouTube we have tea public store, and
we have a book you can get wherever you get
your books. Thanks as always to you our super producer Coustenior,
Exective Producer Maya and your contributor Joey.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Thanks to you for listening stuff I never told you
the production of My Heart Radio. For more podcast from
my Heart Radio, you can check out the iHeart Radio
Appple podcasts wherever you listen to your favorite ship.
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
All the stuff I never told you, procure if I
hurt you, and welcome to a very special stuff we
never told you. We were so excited to be joined
once again by the very well read, the very well
(00:28):
missed Bridget Todd. We have missed you so much, Bridget.
We're so glad to have you.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Oh, you were very well missed. I missed you all
so much. Thanks for having me here, Like, uh, yeah,
I used to kind of rely on shooting the shooting
with y'all. I'm nice to have that outlet. I've missed
it so much. Thank you for having me here.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Then it took us twenty minutes to get to the
recording part because we were in such conversation. I was like, oh, yeah,
we actually need to do things, but I missed talking
so with Bridget.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
So we need to know all the details.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yes, yes, and you, I mean you always. There's so
much going on right now, and so much in the
technology sector and so much in so many sectors that
I just have a lot of trust in you, Bridget.
So you have been very well missed. Which is the Yeah,
I think something I just made up right then, But
(01:25):
I know this is a loaded question, how have you been?
What's been going on?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
If anyone watches Real Housewives of New York, there's a
meme of Derenda saying, how have I been? Not well,
that's that question. Not well, I mean I have I
have gone. I had the worst year of my life
last year, and I do want to say, like a
(01:51):
big part of that was Annie and Samantha, you both
really being such good friends and good collaborators and like
really giving me a lot of space, and so I
want to say, like, thank you for all the support.
And so I've had a personally rough go and then
on top of that everything else that's happening. It feels
(02:13):
like I went offline and when I came back, the
world was spiraling, and so, yeah, I have been experiencing
despair personally, and then I feel like everybody else kind
of also met me in despair, and it's like, oh,
we're all in despair together.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Welcome, which is essentially crying in each other's arms for
different reasons, but it all meshes together because the world's
on fire.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and here we are, like, yay, Bridget,
tell us about it.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Come talk to us about this stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Please, just make say some things.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Well, we were talking off Mike about how complicated it
is as people who make podcasts and make contact. It's
like you have to find this balance of like not
wanting to severely bum everybody out. And you know, we're
not just people who make podcasts, Like I listen to
podcasts for fun, and I find myself being like, you know,
I can't handle anything real right now, I need to
(03:10):
just distract myself with some fluff. I think. I think
we're all both as content creators and as people who
take in content and appreciate media, we're all trying to
find this like sweet spot. I don't know if y'all
listening can identify with this, but I've really been struggling
with how much to take in to not have me
completely be spiraling, and how much to take in to
(03:32):
keep me informed. So trying to find that balance.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Right I think the big conversation is like knowing that
we have a responsibility and making sure like we're not
the complete like we're we can't stop everything, but we
do have a responsibility in witnessing it and making sure
we're calling it out.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
But at the same time.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Sometimes that means that our well being is out the
window when we see too much?
Speaker 1 (04:01):
What do we see way too much?
Speaker 4 (04:04):
And so having that balance of being like, yes, I'm
ready to be refreshed and fight again is so hard
to do what it feels like it's a constant.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
New fight exactly.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
I saw this post that I feel like really summed
up where I'm at, where it was like, certainly, if
I read one more piece of content or one more
news article instead of going to sleep, I will feel
totally in control of what is happening. I yes, that
could have been written by me.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Oh my goodness. Yes, Well, okay, speaking of we were
discussing a friend of mine who every day is sending
me these texts where I can tell she feels she
has no control and I'm kind of like, you need
to you need to find something else. I don't not
all day, not all the time. This is not good
(04:52):
for you. But where we are going to talk about
one of the things she used to do to distract herself,
which was go to target the store. Target that was
like one of her favorite things, and now she's very
conflicted about all of it. And I know that we're
going to talk about that.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Brigitte, Yes, yes, and so I have to say, like,
shout out to Annie's friend because her and me both
I there's a Target that is very close to my apartment.
It's walking distance to my apartment. I will just like
walk around Target just for like a scenery change, like
the same way people will be like, oh, take a
walk in the park. I'm like, oh, let me see
what Target has. It's a terrible habit. Y'all can call
me out, like totally totally own that it's not good behavior.
(05:37):
But I heretofore have loved Target, Like there's just something
about walking around like they really like get the people
who are chopping there. And I think that's one of
the reasons why the whole thing with Target and DEI
is it feels personal to me. It feels kind of
heartbreaking because listen, Walmart stores like that.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
It's like they're not stores where.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
I would imagine there are people who see me and like,
you know, get me as a shopper. Target feels occupies
a very different space in my consciousness. So when I
hear that some effery is happening with Target, I really
don't like it. Does that make sense?
Speaker 4 (06:18):
Yeah, you definitely have to go through your list of like, well,
all that, I can't go there anymore.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
I can't, and your list starts.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Dwindling, especially when you like, for the longest time, we
kind of not champion because there's still a corporation at
the end.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
But for a while they were doing some things that were.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Like, Yay, finally you're doing some good initiatives at least
bringing on great products for a diverse group of people,
which is apparently the problem, and actually standing up for it.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
So it seemed so to come back and be like,
what the.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Hell exactly that? So I want to get into all
of that. But for folks who don't know what's going on,
the Trump administration kicked off with a grip of executive
orders I guess, like targeting wokeness through things like overhauling
DEI initiative. So this happened in the federal government. Like
currently right now, folks who work on anything even tangentially
(07:12):
DEI related within the federal government have been placed on leave.
I live in DC, and that that is like what's
happening with federal workers, both in the District of Columbia
and nationally is like a whole other conversation. It really
is horrible, and I think it will effect impact all
of us. I think we will all be less safe
because of it. So I wanted to name that. But
(07:35):
when it comes to DEI, it is not just the
public sector, because Trump also issued executive orders meant to
quash DEI programs in the private sector as well. He
directed agency heads to drop list of publicly traded companies
to investigate their DEI programs.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
So this is not a totally new thing.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
I know that. When I was on stuff I've ever
told you a while ago, we were talking about the
Supreme Court decision back in twenty twenty three about affirmative action.
So another sort of side effect of that Supreme Court
ruling was that some of these big private companies started
reassessing the legality of their programs after that ruling. So
it's not totally new. But Trump being in the White
(08:16):
House and sort of starting off his administration with, you know,
signaling all of this pressure on DEI programs really has
taken it to a new level.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yes, And I feel like a lot of companies have
come out of the woodwork, not just companies but other
like universities and all this, and they're like, yeah, we'll
just get rid of that as quickly as possible. It's
so ready to be like yep, okay, did want it? Gone?
Speaker 5 (08:39):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (08:39):
So like I mean so like as somebody who covers technology,
I have really I'll say, not shocked, but disappointed when
it comes to tech companies, how quickly they were like, look, gone,
gone gone. After having to sit through years of listing
to these companies talk about or maybe even lie about
the way that support women, LGBTQ people, black people like,
(09:03):
and I think with technology they have the power to
shape so much of our world and so much of
our culture that what they do really can set the tone.
And so yeah, it just sucks that we spent any
time at all pretending that these companies gave a crap
about any of us, And then how quickly they're like, oh,
just kidding. So I'll run through a little bit of
(09:24):
where we're at with some of these companies. So Facebook
just immediately went along with Trump like we'd be here
all day if I listed all the ways, but just
a taste, you know. Obviously, they rolled back their DII programs,
they rolled back fact checking immediately, they lifted restrictions on
saying things like quote women are property on their platforms,
(09:45):
and so if that is an attitude that you happen
to hold, that women are property, you can say that
on Facebook all day long and it is not a problem.
You also saw Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg doing things like
ordering the removal of tampons from all men's bathrooms in
company offices.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
So these weird things.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Where as Mashville put it, this decision was not about
cost cutting or efficiency. It took effort and served no
practical purpose and sent a clear message about the company's
shifting priority. So these things that are clearly like they're
not about cost cutting, they're not about, you know, making
the company more efficient. They're just about making it clear
(10:24):
where they're at, which mission accomplished, because I really have
a very clear understanding of where Facebook is at. Zuckerberg,
of course, went on a bunch of podcasts dressed like
a recently divorced nightclub promoter and talked about how Facebook
needs more quote masculine energy at their companies. Now. Now, again,
keep in mind, this is not a company that Time
magazine describes their current workforce as almost seventy percent mail.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
So I guess that's like not mail enough. We need
it to be more male.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
I don't know. I don't know how much more mail
you can get other than like one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
But okay, which is kind of like the opposite once
again of being like, you want to be really masculine,
but a part of your masculinity is like being impressive
to women. So will you being so impressive towards each other?
Like bro okay, which I kind of missed the days
where we were talking about him and fighting with Elon.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
I know you would go back to those days.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
How that?
Speaker 3 (11:17):
So he had a window where people didn't hate him.
And what's funny is that I was just reading this
study that was like, oh, remember when Mark Zuckerberg like
changed his look and was trying to go for like
a softer, gentler approach. Turns out everybody still hates him.
And I was like, oh, who even did who even
did this study? You're like, what, what's this's the study?
But there is a study that apparently that little window
(11:37):
where people didn't hate his guts did not last and
had no lasting impact. So he really squandered that tiny
sliver of goodwill that he got from people from that
like one week or whatever, people didn't completely hate his guts.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
Right, I think the whistle blowers in his life just
really was not having it. So I also missed them
me too.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Francis Hogan, where are you at?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Met you? I hope you're okay.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
Speaking of big companies, we know, like there were several
big CEOs and executives that were aligned and excited to
do exactly what Trump has been wanted to do, including Amazon, right.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yeah, they scaled back their DEI programs pretty quickly. Google,
I will say two companies that did not immediately scale
back to EI or Apple and Microsoft. Both of those
companies kind of reaffirmed their commitment to DEI. Companies are
so companies. So I don't want to be like giving
them too much rav rock credit. Microsoft has been very
(12:44):
chummy with Trump. But I do want to give credit
where credit is due on DEI specifically because I do
think like it's a choice. You know that one of
the big companies that did not scale back TOI that
we'll talk more about in a bit is Costco, Right,
and so these companies, even despite these executive orders, these
companies don't have to immediately comply. Immediately complying with these
(13:06):
executive orders is a choice, right, And so I wouldn't
even Like a lot of people have described this moment
as sort of a mask off moment, especially when it
comes to tech companies, I wouldn't even say I agree
with this. I don't think that these companies have like
necessarily not wanted to do inclusion work all along. I
(13:29):
don't think that that. I think the people who run
these companies will just align themselves with whoever is in
power and whatever is the favorable position at the moment,
and so I don't even think it's a mask off moment.
Like I don't think Mark Zuckerberg is showing his true colors.
I don't think he has true colors. These are people
who not who don't have genuine values or backbone. And
(13:49):
so if you don't really have if you don't really
value anything, it's not really a mask off moment because
your value is just power and money, right.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
And it's interesting because we've had so many.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Conversations about places like Google and tech companies like them,
and how their initial setup was kind of like we're
the cool nerds that you want to come work for.
We're the ones that's offering you know, unlimited PTO, but
we really don't think you should take it we're the
ones that's bringing in women of color to be leaders,
but not really because if we want to fire them
because they're talking too much and giving too many suggestions, Like,
(14:22):
it's interesting to see how quickly that they were like, oh,
finally we don't have to pretend to be the cool
nerds and just be uh at the alpha males that
we've been training to be essentially.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
So I actually think you're spot on, and I do
think we really need to have more conversations about the
cultural dynamic of some of these tech leaders and some
of these tech companies, because I think it is how
we sort of got into this mess in some ways,
because you know, if you think back to like, you know,
think back to the day the early days of platforms
(14:55):
like Instagram, the early days of iPhone technology and the
people made it occupied a very specific place in our
cultural popular imagination. Right, it was Google offices that looked
really cool, that had pinball machines and open offices. Right.
Google's motto used to be don't be evil until they
dropped that motto officially in twenty eighteen. I think they
(15:18):
might have just taken off the don't right. Maybe it's
now like a little bit evil for a treat is fine.
I think that we gave them so much space and
so much runway to be these cool nerds who we're
going to be using technology to improve all of our lives,
and we kind of trusted that that's what they were doing.
And I think that because of that trust, now when
(15:39):
we check back in and it's like, wait, are you
guys actually still invested in building a better future, and
they're like, now, we're invested in making money through exploiting you. Actually,
I think that's where we're at, And so I think
it's really you're so right.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
To bring up that sort of cultural.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Dynamics that are running some of these companies and in
tune shaping our understanding and attitude around them.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah. I mean, I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
One of the best, most like immediate examples was TikTok
TikTok with that's like trying to fight the government. I'm
here for you, We're here for your voice and where
we want to represent for your First Amendment rights, and
then being like, oh, we love Donald Trump. He's gonna
save us. Let's give money to him. Like it's such
a switch quick turnaround. We were all like oh, we
were rooting for you for a split second, like we
(16:25):
were kind of doubting you and a few things. But
now like, oh, they were such a quick turnaround of
exactly what we saw play out, except it took a
little while longer.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
I had the exact same feeling, Like I remember thinking, oh,
TikTok Ceo is like this young guy, he's so savvy
blah blah blah. How quickly he turned heel right, So like,
don't trust any of these leaders. I don't care how
savvy they look. I don't care how young they are.
Like tech, a tech company will break your heart. A
tech company will exploit you get rich off of it,
(16:56):
and then expect you to champion them like a damn
luminary because it absolutely.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
I mean again Target.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
For a split secondly, we really were like, oh, they're
bringing in black women own products, and we want to
cheer that on. They're standing up for the LGBTQ plus community.
We love that, you know, really seeming like their pain
beyond their minimum wage and people are being like, we're excited,
and then it turned to this.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
Yeah, so let's get into it.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
So on January twenty fourth, Target announced they were going
to be rolling back their DEI initiatives, including programs to
foster and promote black owned businesses in its stores. This
is following Trump's signing of the executive order ending DEI
programs federally. So they sent around a memo by staff
member Kira Fernandez, Target's chief Community Impact and Equity officer
(17:44):
and a black woman herself. In this memo, the company
said they were going to stop conducting external diversity surveys
and submitting information to the Human Rights Campaign Corporate Equality Index,
which evaluates corporate policies on LGBTQ plus inclusion. The memo said,
quote twenty twenty five will be accelerating action in key
areas and implementing changes with the goal of driving growth
(18:06):
and staying in step with the evolving external landscape. And so,
just like what you were saying, Sam, this is particularly
notable because Target really did seem like one of those
retailers that was making and signaling investment in things like inclusion,
especially after twenty twenty. So Target their headquarters is based
(18:26):
in Minneapolis, where George Floyd was killed. So in twenty twenty,
Target reiterated its racial Equity Action and Change initiative, which
involves things like anti racism training for employees and prioritize
hiring and promoting black staff, and they really look to
grow the number of black owned businesses at Target. In
twenty twenty one, Target pledged to invest two billion in
(18:47):
black owned businesses by the end of twenty twenty five
as part of this program. And so here's the thing
that I always like to talk about when it comes
to things like DEI and inclusion. These programs don't just
exist because they're like the nice thing to do, which
they are. They're good business. They make companies money. These
companies exist to make money, and it turns out that
(19:09):
inclusion is good for business. Target's chief executive officer Brian
Cornell told Fortunes Leadership Next podcast in twenty twenty three
that all of these like inclusion and diversity focused initiatives quote,
fueled so much of our growth over the last nine years.
So they are definitely cashing in and making money off
of traditionally marginalized people as a consumer block.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
I wonder how close to that goal were they when
five happened, like to giving those billions in investments, Like,
were they actually that closed or maybe I wonder conspiracy
theories like they were nowhere near something like let's just
roll it back and pretend like it never happened because
we're not going to meet this.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
I mean, that wouldn't surprise me whenever. So this is
like like a hot tip for listeners. Whenever our company
is like we pledge to do xyz thing, right, it's
always good have just to follow up because half the
time they've done nothing and they're just like not counting
on anybody following up. So it's like they can say anything.
Speaker 5 (20:05):
They could say we.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Pledged to do whatever, and it's like if if no
one's following up, they can just get all the good
pr and goodwill without actually doing the thing that they
voluntarily said they were gonna do.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Right, no one asked for these numbers.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
You brought this up this I'm sure you've run into
this before. Bridget as a medium that depends on advertisers sometimes,
like during like Pride Month, they'll be like this company
is gonna do this and do this and do this,
and I'll be like, okay, tell me how silence. I
never hear from them again, Like.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah, I wasn't expecting I wouldn't have said that up.
Speaker 5 (20:44):
I thought you were gonna like ask the follow up.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Asking basically people to donate to your companies that you're
gonna donate, like, well, what are you gonna do though?
Speaker 4 (20:56):
What you to those organizations and then write it off
as their taxes as if they donated the money and
not the customers obviously any come.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
On, so naive.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
I am honestly like that whole rolling up of like
the change and then everybody's like, don't do that because
they're using this as a tax break.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I'm like, oh, yeah, that's sell bug. Oh damn it.
Yeahy so evil.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
I mean, like that's the thing. Like I want to
be clear, it's not like I'm it's not like like
I ask someone who is very critical of things like capitalism.
I didn't think Target was really my friend or really
my ally even when they did this stuff. So it's
not I'm not expecting any corporation or any company to
like truly meaningfully be an ally. But I do think
(21:45):
these companies that go out of their way to signal
to me, you know, as a black woman consumer, that
like we care about you, we we like understand that
you are fueling our profit margins, or like let's try
to be aligned with like give you the customer experience
that you want. I do think that matters, and so
especially a company like Target, I don't know if folks
(22:07):
really understand the role that Target plays, especially for Black women,
like you know, back in the day. So look, if
you like, back in the day when I first grew
my hair out natural, there were not a lot of
mainstream stores where you could walk in and find a
well stocked natural hair care aisle. Target was one of
(22:28):
the first, right, and so it really I think went
another way to curry a lot of favor with Black
women as a consumer base because of that kind of thing,
being like, oh, what is it that you actually use,
What is it that you're actually looking for? How can
we fill the niches in your you know, shopping situation.
I think Target did that very well, and I think
it really positioned them as a place where they were
(22:52):
signaling to the people who actually give them money, like, Hey,
we see y'all, we know what y'all need, we know
what we're listening to you. As the cup points out,
the retailers. Black owned brands span categories from home to
apparel and beauty, including hair care brands The Dough Camille, Rose,
and the viral mel and beauty brand the lip Bar.
(23:12):
These brands fill avoid in the market, making products for
various skin tones and hair textures available. For example, the
dough has its viral curl defining moves beloved by the
natural hair community.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
So it really did.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Play a particular role I think in a lot of
black women's shopping diets.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, I mean, and it was like you said, a
mainstream store to do it, and it felt I don't know,
we like you said, we have said their companies they're
not allies, but it felt nice to be like, Okay,
I can go here and this place is with me.
(23:55):
Kind of gets me. This seems like a it doesn't
feel as bad that I'm going here, you know, I
don't feel the same guilt maybe right else.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
I think this also brings into the conversation about the
fact that they need to like erase this as in
like take this out because of why so this is
obviously a bigger conversation and trying to make a publicity
stunt essentially just like bringing off products and bringing saying
(24:28):
like okay, so diversity in equity and inclusion in these
being what does that mean exactly? And in this conversation.
It's pretty much saying, Okay, we will now exclude a
certain group of people that were excluded previously before this time,
and by doing so, we're going to make white supremacists
(24:49):
feel more comfortable because they were uncomfortable with I don't know,
shopping with people of color, like such a conversation like
they but why why is this so important that Target
needs to do this, Like they were making money off
of this and they're so afraid of or I guess
maybe they are just white supremus one of those two
things in order to satisfy a group of people who
(25:15):
didn't even know it was a thing. For like the
longest time. People were just like, oh what is this
new stuff? Okay, moved on, except when people finally said
this is black oman, They're like, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
What. Yeah. I mean, that's a really good question. I
honestly think that in this moment, it's just about signaling
alignment with Trump and the new administration. I think that, like,
you know, Target has been making good money off of
marketing toward marginalized people, right, I mean, y'all remember when
(25:45):
the last time that Target was in the crosshairs of
a lot of extremists because they had a well stocked,
robust pride section for pride things like that, like and
Target caved on that. Like I will say, like, so,
I think it really just illustrates that these companies, whatever
is in power, whatever is the like, they don't actually
(26:09):
have values or backbones, and we shouldn't necessarily even be
expecting them to. They'll they'll just cave and bend to
whoever is in power. And what makes it even more
frustrating is like after they they will do that, after
they signaled that they want to be more aligned with
these communities. So Chantel Powell, who is a black entrepreneur
(26:29):
who makes a deodorant for kids called play Pits, which
was stocked at Target, she put it really well. She said, quote,
it's frustrating corporations jumped on the bandwagon to support black
businesses when it was trendy. Now that it's easier to
discard us, that's what they're doing. And so yeah, I
just don't think that these companies give a crap. Really,
they it's all posturing, it's all signaling, like they don't
(26:52):
really have any kind of like values to genuinely stick
to or a firm like in moments of you know, upheaval.
Speaker 5 (27:00):
Well, the thing that you can.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Always go back to as your north star is values.
Like as a contact creator, I had to have a
whole conversation when Trump took power of like, well, what
are my values and what am I doing in this
moment to actually serve the people that I want to
be in community with you. When you have values, that
is always your north star. These companies do not have
any value, so of course they're going to blow wherever
the wind.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
Blows, right, They're going to do the bottom line, which
there's so much again, like in this conversation about how
who was easily discarded first? And this is all about
the virtue signaling, as they want to say, because as
robust as their like stock was, it wasn't you still
have to like purposely find it. And it was a
(27:44):
shock to see it, like it's I remember the many
times we're like, oh that's cute. Oh look it's you
know a black owner or a black creator who did this.
That's amazing because it's one out of one hundred, you know,
to see it was notable because there wasn't that many.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
So even the most like.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
Diverse products were just literally one out of fifty one
out of one hundred, Like, it still wasn't.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
I remember back when extremists were targeting Target because of
the pride stuff and the LGBTQ stuff, people would get
upset because Target sold chest binders right for trans folks,
and it's like, okay, so you don't need a chest binder.
Why is it so horrible that like, out of out
of what one hundred, It's like when you go into
the underpant section of Target, ninety nine point nine percent
(28:31):
of garments are designed for SIS people and they have
one product for trans people, and it's the end of
the world. Like, how is that really the biggest complaint
that you can make right now?
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Right?
Speaker 4 (28:42):
I mean our sports bras alone, yes, are just as
offensive to me sometimes, But anyway, why would you uh no,
in all of those statements. It really like, as much
as we want to tell that they were inclusive, they weren't.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
And the amount of.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
Hate that people will give in order to make a
sleep again, we know that haters in general want to
want to create controversy, so they would go out trying
to look for anything that they're like, this is controversial,
this is this? Why does this have to be this
and half the time again it was misinformation or disinformation
and being like, uh, this black product for the black
(29:22):
community was often created by white corporations.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Like we saw that many times.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Absolutely absolutely so when Target announced their intention to pull
back from these initiatives, people were not happy. Some like
Minneapolis Council Member Jason Chavez and Strike for All, which
is an advocacy organization run by former Senator Nita Turner,
called for a boycott of Target in response, which is
currently still going on. This was a little bit tricky
(29:50):
in that Target backing away from DEI does not mean
that like black and brown owned companies are going to
be you know, pulled from the shelves. And so you
saw a lot of black creators and black entrepreneurs being like, well, wait,
if you boycott Target and you're not going to go
to Target, it will hurt us even more because that's
less people who are buying our items from the shelves.
(30:10):
Maya Smith, who is a black woman and the founder
of the Dough the haircare brand, shared the statement on Instagram,
saying pulling black dollars from these retailers doesn't hurt the
corporations as much as it hurts the brands you love.
It also feeds into false narratives that we're only here
because of DEI initiatives, not because of the countless sacrifices
and creativity we've poured into creating a lasting impact on
(30:32):
the textured hair category. Through the dough you might say like, oh, well,
I'll just buy directly from this brand rather than buying
it from Target. But Powell, the founder of Playpits That
Kids deodorant company, said that buying directly online might not
actually be so helpful for some of these black owned brands.
She said, big box retailers are a predictable revenue stream.
(30:54):
Online I might make two thousand dollars one day and
two hundred the XT but with Target, I have a
consistent flow of income. It's also a convenient opportunity for
my customers to shot my products. For moms, convenience is key,
and so I get where these creators are coming from.
I do want a spotlight that one of my favorite
black creators who has the brand Oh Happy Danny, immediately
(31:17):
announced that she was cutting ties with Target and like
phasing her stuff off the shelves as soon as Target
made this announcement.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
But you know, I do understand the.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Complexities here because it is not a clear cut situation,
and I don't want to say that I have the answer,
but I understand that people want solidarity from some of
these black creators that they see on the shelves at Target.
But I also understand that, hey, if you're a black
creator and a black entrepreneur, you do have a harder
(31:48):
time compared to your non black counterparts, right, And so
you know, people are basically saying, like, well, why should
I be expected to miss out even more because of
a decision that Target made.
Speaker 5 (31:58):
I can really understand both Bosi.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
Right, It's one thing to say we're gonna boycott McDonald's
and Starbucks and the such, but doing specific things with
these creators who have brands, it's it is hard. Like
we talked about the fact that also it's really hard
for individuals in general, uh to try to figure out
what's a good company, because all these grocery stores or
(32:21):
all these stores they have something, whether it's anti union,
whether they don't pay their employees enough, or whether they're
rolling back DEI, or whether they you know, gave to
the Republican Party or Donald Trump themselves. It's really hard
to try to do conscientious buying when you are stuck.
And again, we talked about disabilities previously, about how it's
(32:42):
also impossible, uh to not do delivery service for a
lot of disabled people, even though like corporations like Amazon
is awful, however they give access to those who can't
go well, Like, it's such a hard conversation about what
to do and how to truly support without hurting the
people you're t find a support.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Yeah, I've really been struggling with this in my personal
life as well, Like I am trying to boycott Target
and Amazon. But you know, easy for me to say
as an able bodied person with discretionary income and no kids, right, Like,
if you're a busy new parent or somebody with a disability,
(33:24):
I don't regard to you anything that you got to
do to get through the day. But I know that
I personally do have some wiggle room, right, And so
what's been interesting to me is I'm I wouldn't say
I'm boycotting any particular company for any particular stance. However,
I'm really just reassessing the role that these companies play
in my habits more generally, right, Like Amazon is a
(33:47):
terrible company. They are terrible for the world in so
many reasons. And Amazon's owner Jeff Bezos is incredibly buddy
buddy with Trump. When Trump was inaugurated, you saw the
whole line of tech, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos. I live
in DC, Jeff Bezos owns Amazon. Jeff Bezos owns where
(34:08):
I get my healthcare, one medical he bought that. Jeff
Bezos owns my local newspaper, The Washington Post. He owns that.
Jeff Bezos owns where I do my grocery shopping, Whole Foods,
he owns that. Like how much of my life does
one billionaire get to control? And so it's not even
about one specific policy, It's more that I am trying
(34:28):
to reject that entire dynamic. And one way that I'm
doing that on a small personal level is just trying
to buy shop small, shop local, my local places when
I can, and shop less in general, Like do I
need to be consuming so much? Who is this supporting?
Who am I empowering with my dollar when I go
in and mindlessly buy something I don't even really need.
(34:50):
And so I don't think it has to be some
kind of a big boycott necessarily you can just through
small ways decide to know, I want to participate in
this kind of like an economy less and less, and
I just think that's true for so many people.
Speaker 4 (35:06):
Right, But yeah, we still have to keep in consideration
and like as a whole who has the privilege to
do that? You know, we talked about you and I
and Annie have reliable cars that can take us places.
I said, Annie has a dot dot dot because her
car's getting there.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Annie questioned, Mark, her handa is still running. Not a sponsor.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
This is kind of going off topic, and I do
want to ask what your thoughts are because I've seen
a few posts saying like February twenty eighth is a
blackout day where people being told don't buy anything, don't
consume anything. Let that be the day that no one
buys things. If you can, are those things like are
those things effective? Does that do where one day a
(36:00):
lot more people do not consume and so therefore like
kind of make a dip in that day? Are things
like that a viable way of protesting some of these
evil corporations?
Speaker 5 (36:11):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (36:11):
I think absolutely.
Speaker 5 (36:13):
So.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
It's funny that you bring this up because I was
just reading a post on Reddit by that witchy lady
was like three why's and they said the title of
the post is to those saying boycotts won't work. From
a former retail worker, and they write, I keep seeing
misinformation being spread to the tune of boycotts don't work,
No one cares, They'll be back at Target and no time.
(36:34):
I'm here to share my experience as a retail worker.
I've worked retail at four different chains, and I asked
with other retail workers chime in. They absolutely have the
ability to work because these businesses care way more about
their numbers than the average consumer who has never worked
retail realizes. When I was working for corporate owned women's
clothing store, we could hourly updates about meeting our goals
literally piped into our ears. Numbers got reported to the
(36:56):
team daily. Everyone knew when we were hitting our goals
and when we weren't. When we were pushed to sell, sell, sell,
I was just a tiny little cog in the machine.
But if that's what's being said and pressured onto me,
imagine what these big wigs and their boardrooms are talking about.
I think that the February twenty eight economic boycott has
the power to scare them. Why because I saw my
direct managers upset over these numbers on an hourly basis.
(37:18):
Please join the economic boycott on February twenty eighth. You know,
money talks, which is why they are trying so hard
to tell you that it doesn't matter. They're doing it
because it does matter. So that's just one retail worker's opinion.
But I got to think that they're on the money
with something because you know, especially in a time where
we don't feel like we have a lot of power
or a lot of agency or a lot of voice,
(37:39):
our money, our spending power, our economic power really does
have weight. Like that is power.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Right.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
I'm glad you read that because I go back and
forth on again understanding what is effective on what isn't,
whether a boycott is or isn't effective, Who is able
to do what and participate in who is being hurt
by some of these protests of cause I don't give
a about the corporation who know they're evil, I'm not
talking about them in general, but like again, like the
(38:07):
entrepreneurs who have products in these different companies that I've.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Also seen them talk about Amazon, like.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
That does help with cells, It gives me money, like
it gives us whatever ratings or whatnot, which again I'm
not touting Amazon.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
I've paused my membership and all of that. I've done
it because I.
Speaker 4 (38:22):
Was, like, I feel too dirty because I was depending
on it so much, because I didn't want to go
out to target and actually walk about and see people.
But all of that in conversation of like, if this
does work, then we need to be shouting it louder,
because yeah, we want to at least be effective and
doing the things as effectively as possible if we are
(38:43):
able to do so, and being prepared for it. And honestly,
outside of a couple of TikTok posts, I haven't seen
much about it.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
Have y'all the economic blockout? Yeah I have, But I
am like pretty deep into a lot of like buy
nothing jam the cogs of capitalism in these small ways
online spaces. But I guess I'm curious if my friends
who were like not in those spaces, if they're seeing
(39:09):
any of it at all. People listening might be like,
there's an economic boycott on February twenty.
Speaker 5 (39:13):
Eighth being planned.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
I've never heard of it.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
You haven't, So that's the question is, like how widely.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
Is it being spread? Hey, y'all, there's an economic blackout
on the twenty eighth of February. If you're listening to
this on the day is released, Yeah, the part we're podcasts.
I don't know when this is going to be.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
So here's a little bit of information I just found. So,
according to CBS, behind the boycott as a group called
the People's Union USA, a self described grassroots organization founded
by John Schwartz, a fifty seven year old dad from Queens,
New York, who said that he's been promoting the consumer
blackout for weeks on social media. The People's Union says
it has no political affiliation, but focuses on quote fairness,
(39:53):
economic justice, and real systemic change. So the call to action,
or rather in action, is asking that American consumers refrain
from making any purchases at major retailers on Friday, February
twenty eighth. The protest comes as people continue to endure
rising prices on everything from food to gas, to housing
and new utilities, epitomized by the soaring cost of eggs,
(40:13):
which in January averaged four to ninety five a dozen.
Speaker 5 (40:17):
So, yeah, that is the information. If you're interested in participating.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
You can go online and find out more, but I
understand because like again, like it for me, it's really
not about any one policy or store. It's like I
do not want to continue to participate in an economic
system that just continues to exploit me. And I understand that,
Like we're in capitalism, so what am I gonna do?
(40:41):
But like I can do in small ways, I can
opt out of that system more and more, like I've
been really you know, it's it sounds so small and stupid,
and in some ways I understand that it is. But
like I've been growing herbs on my balcony, so when
I need fresh herbs, I'm not running to Target. I
just have them on my balcony. I've been cooking more
(41:01):
at home. I've been like, rather than going on and
buying new stuff, I'm like using free groups and like
you know things like that, of like I just want
to participate in this economy less and less because it
is just so exploitative, right, And just.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
Coming back on track onto all the information that you
are bringing us, like this is that conversation once again
when I come back in the confused era of like
DEI and why it's so offensive to people and why
they think is so harmful when in actuality it's not.
Speaker 3 (41:34):
Well, you know who definitely doesn't find it harmful, and
that's Costco. So the same climate that had companies like
Target abandoning their DEI initiatives and their inclusion work so quickly,
Costco exists in that same environment and guess what, they
didn't cave on anything.
Speaker 5 (41:50):
So to be.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Super clear, I know I've said this before, but DEI
and inclusion is not just like the right thing to do.
It is profitable. It makes companies money, you know, just
like that Target executive saying that supporting inclusion in twenty
twenty made the company money. Being able to cast a
wide net when you're doing things like hiring and being
able to attract all different kinds of people who want
to spend money with your brand is good business. So
(42:14):
Costco got approached by the Trump administration and was trying
to be They were trying to pressure Costco into dropping
their DEI programs, and Costco basically was like, no, our
programs are fine, y'all can kick rocks. Nineteen attorneys general
led by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, which by the way,
he's a real piece of work. Google him if you've
(42:35):
got a Sabera minut, because he's a real piece of work.
And Iowa Attorney General Brenna BirdAir are currently trying to
pressure Costco into abandoning their DEI initiatives. They sent Costco
a letter saying, with three hundred thousand employees, Costco likely
has at least two hundred thousand employees who are potentially
victims of a legal discrimination because they are white, Asian
mail or straight. Even if only a fraction of those
(42:56):
employees were to file suit and only some of these
proof successful, the cost to Costco could be tens of
billions of dollars. So that's like pretty clearly a threat
to essentially extort Costco. Costco's board's response was, our board
has considered this proposal and believe that our commitment to
an enterprise rooted in respect and inclusion is appropriate and necessary.
(43:18):
The report requested by this proposal would not provide meaningful
additional information to our shareholders, and the board thus unanimously
recommends a vote against this proposal.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
First of all, I hate that they included as but
I know they do, but like I'm still like, ah,
it's not that. But all these things I will say
on a good note because there was a moment where
I was iffy with Costco for a split second. I
was like, I can't go nowhere because there had an
almost union strike. However, before it could go down, Costco
(43:51):
followed the lead and actually worked with the unionized members
and gave them the raises that they deserved.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
So kudos. It worked out.
Speaker 4 (43:59):
It took a little pressuring, but I'm glad to know
that they're not anti union, so that is a plus
BT dubs, because that's one of the big questions. Like
the last five years, I feel like I've just seen
more and more conversations about whether it's DEI or it's
anti union, and I'm like, why do you have to
be so mean to your people's But like seeing that
they were able to actually be on top of it
(44:21):
is nice, nicest, not on top of it, but finally
like understanding everything from every aspect. It felt like, Okay,
maybe I need to buy a freezer from them so
I can store the large amounts of food that they sell.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
I mean, I find there one dollar fifty cents hot
dogs delightful and my late father rest his soul. He
loved to brag about how you could return anything to
Costco for cash no matter what. He was like a
real abuser of that policy.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
You know what I do, what you gotta do.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
And you know, am I saying this because I think
that like Costco is some like idealist crusader. Ally I'm
sure they're vorable in a million other ways, But I
think that they are a company that likes making money,
and they have done the math and they have probably
realized that their DEI and inclusion policies help them make money.
And it seems like, honestly, I have to say like,
(45:15):
it does seem like Target is experiencing some financial consequences here.
To be clear, retail shopping is down generally in part
I think because of things like inflation and rising prices
and economic uncertainty and like changing consumer habits. But Target
and Walmart both saw their retail numbers fall in the
wake of pulling their DEI initiatives, while Costco did not. Again,
(45:37):
I don't specifically know if this is because of the
boycott or because of DEI, but this is according to
retail brew foot traffic is down at Target stores. According
to data from placer Ai prepared exclusively for retail brew
In the week that began January twenty seven, foot traffic
fell four percent, then fell eight point six percent the
week beginning February third, and three point nine percent the
(45:59):
week beginning February tenth. This was the first drop in
traffic this year for Target, with foot traffic for the
first four weeks of twenty twenty five up between five
percent and eleven point eight percent.
Speaker 5 (46:09):
Walmart was the same. Meanwhile, Costco has seen traffic rise
for the same three week period, up by five point
eight percent on the week beginning January twenty seven, five
point seven percent on the week beginning February third, and
four point six percent on the week beginning February tenth.
So is this the result of like people boycotting Target,
(46:29):
not going to Target, you know, not wanting to shop
at places that have these kinds of policies.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (46:35):
But what I do know is that women have money.
Speaker 3 (46:38):
In fact, most financial decisions being made in households are
being made by women. Black people have money, Queer people
have money, trans people have money. We spend money. We
have real economic power. And I think all of us
really have to understand that. And like understand what that means,
that it matters where we put our money, it matters
who we choose to financially support, and like, and I
(47:01):
agree with that person's comment on Reddit that like the
fact that they keep trying to convince us that it's
not powerful, it doesn't matter, should be a signal to
all of us that it actually does.
Speaker 4 (47:11):
Yeah, you're right, with all the misinformation and disinformation that
we get, it wouldn't be surprising that corporate people would
want us to think this doesn't work so that we
would stop doing it.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Yeah, like, no, I you haven't hurt me at all,
And secretly they're getting those numbers. Oh no, Yeah, Yeah,
it'll be interesting to see what happens. And I know,
I know for a lot of us, US and our listeners,
(47:45):
it is something that we're all wrestling with these ways
we can make these changes in this system, and there's
so many different factors to it. But yeah, I definitely
where you put your money and who you choose to
support with your money, that's a big one. That's a
big one, very.
Speaker 3 (48:02):
Important, especially now like this is the tapic And again
just I think I've said this, but I want to
pay it clearly, like easy for me to say, I
am a I'm not a parent. I live in an
easily walkable community, you know, I am able bodied, like
easy for me to say. But like if you're someone
for who that is the case, you can, you can,
(48:22):
you know, be choosy about how and where you spend
your money. Not everybody has that luxury. And if you
are somebody who's listening who does, that's great, Like we
should be the people who are making those kinds of decisions.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Yes, absolutely, well, thank you so much, Bridget. We're so
happy to have you back on. It was so good
to talk with you. Where can the good listeners find you?
Speaker 3 (48:45):
Ah, this has been a pleasure. I miss shooting the
s with you all. And if you want to shoot
the s with me, you can listen to my podcast
or our girls on the internet or follow me on
Instagram at Bridget Marie and DC.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Yes, yes and go do that listeners, And if you
would like to contact us you can you can email
us at hello at Stuffwenever Told You dot com. You
can find us on Blue Sky at mom Stuff podcast,
or in Instagram and TikTok at stuff w Never Told You.
We're also on YouTube we have tea public store, and
we have a book you can get wherever you get
your books. Thanks as always to you our super producer Coustenior,
Exective Producer Maya and your contributor Joey.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Thanks to you for listening stuff I never told you
the production of My Heart Radio. For more podcast from
my Heart Radio, you can check out the iHeart Radio
Appple podcasts wherever you listen to your favorite ship.
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
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Samantha McVey
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