May 3, 2024 • 39 mins
In honor of the 25th anniversary of the film 10 Things I Hate About You, we take a look back at the popular retelling of The Taming of the Shrew.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steff.
I never told your production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
And as we were talking about the episodes for the
show for the month of May, we realize many of
the topics we are bringing are not the most comforting
or easy topics, I guess, especially mine. I don't know
why I keep going to the dark, but I'm traveling
toward the dark side when it comes to episode themes. Apparently,
(00:41):
so we thought we would ease into the month with
some lighthearted content, right and with the recent twenty fifth
year anniversary celebration of the classic Ten Things I Hate
About You, I decided I needed to force any into
watching the classic and have a moment to talk about
(01:05):
the good, the bad, and the not so greatly aged
I guess content of the nineteen ninety nine retelling of
The Taming of the Shrew again Ten Things I Hate
About You?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yes, Annie, what did you think about the movie?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I enjoyed it. I had fun. I watched it last night. Yes,
this was my first time watching it. I thought it
was really fun. I left feeling like, oh, in a
good mood, and it had a lot of stuff that
I related to as I've talked about this before, but
(01:46):
in high school, I was definitely like the feminist, but
I was afraid of the word feminist, so I would
never call myself that. But I was definitely like this
character where I was. I was the one that was
why are we doing this and not this? So I
really add to a lot of it in it. I
enjoyed that, and as we were discussing, the music was
a real a real throwback.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
There's a throwbacks and there's so many throwbacks in this thing.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
The outphits, the classic ouphits, the type like baby Doll
t shirts, which I think they're all making a comebacks
or have made comebacks through and through.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
I loved this movie.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
This is when I was still in high school, so
definitely my time frame for sure. This was the introduction
of Heath Ledger, which is why you had said that
you did not watch.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
It's why I didn't watch an Okay, yeah, yeah, which
I still have not seen.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Which I loved that one as well. Both of these.
There was this whole era.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
And I was talking about this earlier around like this time.
This was right in the back in the middle of
taking classics and doing a retelling, so Clueless was one
of those. She's all that was one of those Bridget
Jones diary as we had already watched that was one
of those. Apparently I got all caught up into all
of these at a younger age as well. I was
(03:05):
just surprised. One of the surprises that I got was
that The Lion King was based on Hamlet, and I
was like, oh, well, that makes sense, but I didn't
think about it at that point, like it's one of
those things like, oh, okay, loosely, yes.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
You know. The funny thing too here is that's really
throwing me for a loop. It's the twenty fifth anniversary
of Star Wars The Phantom Menace. So when I when
this was out, I was watching that, which.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Would have been probably Cameron and Michael, who are the
nerdier ones of this movie, would have watched that as well,
but that was never referenced.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Obviously. Obviously, Yes, it's just odd. I didn't know that
they were in the same time, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
The things that you hit you're like, oh interesting. Two
thousands was a lot a lot. Nineteen nineties to early
two thousands was a lot. So the movie is written
by Karen McCullough and Kirsen Smith, who also wrote She's
the Man, which I referenced before, which is another movie
loosely based on Shakespeare's play as well, and also they
(04:13):
also wrote Legally Blonde together, so they're they're you know,
they're dynamic duo. This was directed by Gil Junger, which
takes place in a prominent high school in Seattle with
a bunch of very rich, well to do kids. I
don't think it ever really implies that they are, but
the school alone was like a castle. Yeah, so I'm
(04:33):
I'm gonna assume they all got they got away with
a lot, So I'm assume that this is like private school,
which is how illistated.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Archery and stuff like. That's that's fancy, right.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
So I'm like, I'm gonna go with that.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So this is has a cast that makes up the
list of nineties All Stars essentially. The movie shows the
interworkings of young people in the day in the life
of high school growing up. So not my high school.
Definitely not my high school, but kind of, I guess.
So we have Julia Styles as kat Larissa Oulinik, which
(05:09):
of the Secret World of Alex Mack.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Did you ever watch that? No, do you know what
I'm talking about?
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Nope, Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
This is a Nickelodeon show that was huge at one point,
and she had a big following of people. This was
our first, I want to say, first movie after her
big fame, so people were really excited to see her
in this role. She plays the sister Bianca, who lives
with their opprotective father played by Larry Miller. And yeah,
(05:38):
the father does a great job in penning the girls
against each other.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
That's the first thing I thought. I was like, Wow,
this is really bad parenting. But okay.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Then we have Cameron, a new student who falls in
love with the Bianca played by Joseph gordonvitt Levitt, who
was also pretty huge at this point. His new best
friend Michael played by David Crumholtz. We have outside players
such as Joey quote eat Meat, Donner You're welcome, played
by Andrew Keegan, who was getting big things to Seventh Heaven.
(06:06):
I don't remember that this is These are the things
that I remember in high school that I was like, Oh,
these are big people. People were really excited to see
them together. We also have Chastity, Bianca's best friend, played
by the icon, Gabrielle Union, who has said has been
in several of these, like nineties movies, like the nineties
early two thousand movie, and she still looks the same.
(06:27):
And of course the bad boy himself, Patrick Verona, played
by Heath Ledger. Yes, this was my tradiction to him,
as I said before, And we're going to shout out
to Alison J. D playing the not so helpful erotica
writing high school guidance counselor, who was great, perfect for.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
That role, to be honest.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
So let's jump into the plot. Cat and Bianca are
polar opposite sisters, but Bianca is the cheery, popular girl
that the boys all fall for, while Kat is an
angry anti establishment type who was ready to leave her
home to bigger and better things I Sarah Lawrence College.
(07:05):
Their father is an overprotective type and has to come
more so after their mother left, which is a problem
for Bianca, who is not allowed to date even though
there are so many invites from so many boys, including
the most popular. After a brief argument, the father will ents,
saying she can date if her sister Cat, who has
(07:25):
sworn that she would never date any of the high
schoolers or there until she does. With that, we have
Cameron and geeky friend Michael coming up with a plan
to get Cat a date, and the only person they
could find who could live up to that challenge is
the scary dude who may or may not have been
in jail, Patrick Verona. With the financial assistance of Joey,
(07:46):
who is also trying to date Bianca, they get Patrick
to woo Kat, so all these adventures happen. After some
hard work and manipulation, Kat agrees to go to a
party with Verona, which allows for beyond to go out
with Joey, who she was always.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Intending to date. This was an intent to her.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
At the party, we have the drunken dancing performed by
Julia Styles, which apparently they were going to give her
a choreographer because the director was dating Paula Abdul at
the time.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
This was I was like what what?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Who? I also, I love Paula Duel love loved I
can't tell you how much. Oh my god, anyway, going
back to but she refused and did this on her own,
so props to Julia Styles. Then we have Bianca realizing
she doesn't actually like Joey but likes Cameron We have
this awkward scene later of Kat being rejected by Verona
(08:40):
for a kiss because she was too drunk and he
was respecting that boundary. Yes, she got real drunk because
she was annoyed by the party and what the establishment
was doing, so you know all those things, which you know,
had this real sweet conversation between the two. Yay. But
there also because Bianca decides she didn't want to hang
out with joe anymore, gets stranded, gets a ride from Cameron,
(09:01):
and they have a sweet kiss as well.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Da da Da da da.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Later we have Patrick making it up to her with
an impromptu performance of Can't Take My Eyes Off You
in front of everyone with the band of course, and
being chased by security people, which leads to another date
where they go and throw paint balloons at each other. Yes, yes,
(09:27):
I just thought that was an interesting scene. Then we
soon find out that Kate had actually dated Joey and
he had pressured her into having sex and then she
didn't like it, and so she said she wasn't gonna
do it anymore, and then he dumped her, which is
why she doesn't like him at all.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Hello.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
But that all is good, as they all decide to
go to the prom, where Kat finds out that a
Verona actually was paid to take her out, even though
he tried to gaslight her and be.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Like, why do you think I have some motives? I
don't have any mode of it's just because I like you.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Lies, But yes, Kat finds that out there Bianca had
gone out with Cameron and found out that she was
a bet for Joey, which wasn't actually true. He said
he was gonna do for fun, but whatever, and she
punches him in the face. Fun scene twice twice. And
then we have Kat being very sad and they all
(10:28):
have an assignment, which was to rewrite the Sonnet, Shakespeare's Sonnet.
She gets up and reads hers and it has infamous
I don't hate you, not even little, not even at all,
apparently was shot in one take because she was so
good at it. And then later we have Verona apologizing
by giving her the guitar that she'd been eyeing throughout
(10:48):
the entire movie, and end scene everybody's happy. Yeah, was
(11:11):
there a favorite scene for you in there?
Speaker 1 (11:14):
There are a couple standouts. I really liked the montage,
the sports montage where she's like pissed Roona. I really
liked that part. Yeah, yeah, that just felt fair like
if I had been younger and I'd seen that, I
had been like, hell yeah, I did like the junk
(11:36):
dance that was that you had told me it was
something like that was going to be in there, and
I was not anticipating that.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
According to Mini excerpts, this is how she ended up
getting the role for Save the Last Dance because they
saw her doing table scene and they're like, oh, she can dance.
She's a white girl that can dance. Let's use her.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yes, she apparently it is another movie I need to watch.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Its need is a strong word. Did I love it?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
I loved it, But it was along the same lines
of me also loving Romeo Must Die. Uh Okay, there's
just like like grittiness that really wasn't there, That really
wasn't like it wasn't that low anyway. But you know, Aliah,
I loved Romeo Romeo Must Die. It might be one
of my top like twenty movies for sure anyway, But
(12:26):
for some reason, that was around the same timeframe for
me those two movies. M M.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
I haven't seen that one anything. The list got longer
and longer.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I think I have an excuse to bring that one
to you either, Well.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
We'll see, we'll see. I did like that, like passing.
I liked the passing feminist like comments you would make,
because every time I watch an older movie, I'm kind
of like, oh wow, yeah, surprise, surprise. They were talking
about it then too, which I know is terrible, of
course they were, but sometimes especially I don't know, rom
(13:02):
com teenage ish movie, but I liked it. It's like, oh.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
It definitely had a little more umph and depth than
your typical teenage romance movies, where you see that is
okay to not be smiling all the time, and she
was the perfect character, like apparently. In an interview she
recently did for the twenty fifth anniversary and for her
upcoming projects, Julia Stiles was talked about how she was
(13:30):
told so many times that you need to have a
better persona. You need to be cheerier, you need to
be like smiling. You seem kind of like, you know, unapproachable.
But this role was so perfect for her because that
was what they needed. That they needed someone unapproachable and
who even though she could be, she didn't have to
be you know, something else. You could just be there
(13:52):
was the resting face essentially that got her this role.
But yeah, so talking about the movie, So I'm calling
this the part the themes and discussions, but more just
a discussion about the movie because I think there's so
much more in that, Like there's not a lot of
just like this is the point, this is a point.
It was definitely just one of those entertaining movies that
had a good feel to like, uh, turning a classic
(14:15):
into something different and more approachable in the late nineties
because definitely teaming of the show because you know, I
talked about the different renditions that were out there and
we were all like, yeah, this is not this is
not it because essentially, like the original version is like
he's really abusive, trying to get her to submit to him.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Yeah, and I was thinking about this too, because if
you've never read it, I mean she is the shrew obviously. Yeah,
and we still today get called that, like women who
are allowed or have like a quote shoal voice, like
Shrew's something that is lobbed against women a lot. And yeah,
so it's basically him wearing her down and taming her
(15:04):
because that's what's good for her, that's what's better for her.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Right and for everybody in fallow society obviously, But they
took this and kind of flipped it on the head
of like being a feminist and what that looks like
and how you can you can bring in both levels.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
There is a little.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Bit of an intersectionality hinted as we have the African
American professor who was like, oh, I feel so bad
for you, poor witch, upper class white girl, like, can
you tell me more of your woes? Like coming in
like we almost hit it, but we don't quite hit that.
You do. You have like a very like all white
(15:43):
cast except for the supporting two black characters, And you're like,
h m hm, cool, I guess uh. And of course
I'll go ahead and jump into the fact that yes,
the very bad like African crew or the Rastafarian crew
are all white people wishing they were black with bad dreads.
And I was like, oh god, at least I didn't
(16:03):
do blackface.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
I will give them that.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I know.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I know, but from that time frame, yeah, you never know.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
It's true even today but even worse.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
But like you're like, oh, like there's a point of
like they are making fun of them, at least like
they're not trying to encourage it and be like this
is obviously ridiculous, this is just go with it. Still
pretty racist, I don't think an aged Well, I get
what they were going for, and there were those people
that exist, so we know that they were there. But yeah,
(16:42):
so again there was also the question, and I think
it's a very good question, like they how much they
loved the character in several of the articles that I
read of Kat except for the one thing is like
she is so dismissive and a little bit antagonistic towards Bianca,
who is not like this, and the fact that you
know they're different. There are types of women and that's okay.
If a woman really likes dating and wants to wear
(17:06):
the makeup and have a different type of fashion, all
those things are okay too, And like it kind of
hinted at the fact that during this time frame and
still today about this like pitting women against each other.
And this was from one of the articles. Actually, this
was from the article from the New York Times they
had did with Julia Stiles. It says in two thousand
(17:27):
and two, according to the self appointed cultural anthropologist at
Newsweek magazine, there were exactly three types of teenage girls
in America. You could be an Alpha, a blonde who
loved cheerleading, worship Gwynneth and Vogue, and managed to be
both chee and nice. You could be a beta, which
was basically an aspiring alpha. Beta's reportedly took diet pills
(17:49):
as after school snacks, spent after prom at a motel,
and were tragically brunette. Or you could be a part
of the rising cohort of Gamma girls Buffy, the them
Pish Layer, watching flair jeans, wearing freethinkers who are obsessed
with Shakespeare, dated the class smart, and subscribed to Jane magazine,
(18:09):
the poster child for the Gamma girl Julia Styles. And
I guess you, Annie, as you said, if you're a
teenager at that point, I.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Mean, I don't think obsessed with Shakespeare, but I was
obsessed with like tragedies, So.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
I did think that was an interesting article.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
And Julia Styles's comment that I was like, ah, I
remember seeing this, and I remember really hating the fact
that why are they trying to compare me to other girls?
Speaker 3 (18:41):
This is so silly?
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah, And I think, like, I think there's a difference
between because this feels very pitting against other girls. It
also feels like in this case, you are rooting for
Julia Styles, I would say, in this movie, yeah, so
it feels like then all of the femininity that she
rejects is bad or worse. But instead, I think in
the movie, it's more she was hurt by this dude.
(19:06):
She's kind of put these walls up. She has some
like I would say, very accurate points, good points, good thoughts,
but in the end they sort of come together and
balance each other out, like her sister Bianca, Yeah and
her and so I think in the movie it's less
of pitting them against each other, although the element is there.
(19:30):
And but this feels very like she was better right
than your classic girly girl.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Right, I mean definitely the moments between Beyanka and Chastity
was interesting, especially towards the end, like they were competing
with each other for being the only sophomore prom and
having the date and all these things, which is a
whole different level of questions, which they did Chastity's character
dirty because why would.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
She flip like that?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Like it yeah nit, But it definitely did not hold
to like being friends friends, which I wish they had
a little more of but it's okay. Instead it was
like Henchman, I guess, type of thing like Lackey's for
them for everyone apparently, But I think for that era
during that time, it definitely was a lot of that.
(20:14):
We definitely saw that Christina Aguilera versus Britney Spears tropes,
any of the young popular stars. They were all against
each other. It was interesting that they continue to do
like that until oftentimes these stars would either quit or
just spiral during this time. So we definitely saw a
lot of that, and I feel like that was that
(20:35):
era in itself. And yeah, they had the pinning of
like blonde versus brunettes, which is still I think we've
talked about this as a full episode in itself. It's
just like why was this the thing?
Speaker 3 (20:45):
And I guess, why is this a thing?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
When hair color really can be changed so quickly and
does change on its own so quickly, says I, with
the amount of gray hairs that are coming. That's in fact,
I think like I had jet black hair too, like
less jet like it's still black, but it's still like
you can tell it's less. So like it's such an
odd thing, this conversation, like your blonde or your brunette
or your a redhead, and you were all didn't like
(21:09):
to be friends.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
You're like, that's interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
We've talked about this in several episodes. It's it is
strange to me how much we associate certain personality things
with hair type, hair color. It's it is very strange
and it's enduring. We still do it.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I mean, like even the hair type though, like being
curly versus not curly, Like it's short versus long.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Like if it's short, you're obviously tho.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
If it's tied back all the time in a ponytail,
then you're obviously this Like it's right, so many Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
We talked about that in the episode we did with
the Bob where it calls like a national panic. Like
we still do that though, when a when like a celebrity,
a woman cuts her hair and it's short, it's like,
what's happened to her?
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Did you just go through a breakup? Don't don't don't
do a girl.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
It's an odd concept, but it was very I feel
like these are very reminiscent of those times. As we
said up of course earlier about the bad stereotypes, the
fact that they had them.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
It was very clueless as well. That was like that.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Was your high school like that because you were you
were several years younger than me. I was already probably
out of college when you were in high school. Like like, oh,
the stereotypes, like the jocks. They had cowboys, which we
had f f A guys. They weren't cowboys, but they
were f f A like they were specific to a
(22:45):
future Home Amerkers Association, and then f f A which
is Feature Farmers of America, which is funny because my
brother was a part of that.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
We are not a farming family. Never happened.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
No, yeah, he's become more. He does own goats. I
found that out recently. I'm very cute anyway, But like
we had bad instead of cowboys, and they definitely did
hang out the jobs. I guess there was a group
of jocks that did hang out, but again this was
my time frame. Yeah, but the drama kids, so we
all split. There were so many different types of people,
(23:21):
so like we had the head cheerleader being the lead
actress in drama. We had the like the lead football
quarterback as in drama, and then we had people who
were outsiders. I guess for quote unquote all intents and
purposes who were also a part of drama. So that
drama was really interesting and it may even because of
our teacher who was amazing, But like it wasn't We
(23:42):
didn't have dramakas. That was not a thing, because dramakas
could be anything that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
We had drama kids. They I would say, like, we
definitely had the sports and then the popular popular group yeah,
and then kind of your heavy metal music gos crew.
I was in the like we're nice, you can sit
here group, yeah, but the drama kids would sometimes would
(24:12):
mix because we we are also where a lot of
us were in drama. But there was a specific group that.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Was like, are you in the Thespian Society? No, I've
made in the Thespian Society within the first year because
I did so many hours as a stage manager.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
It was awful anyway, I love drama.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Being the stage manager without any experience was real dumb
because I was the stage manager for a competition and
she just put me in there, like you know what
you're doing.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
I was like, no, I don't.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Because I also gave the ore that was I was
organized and I am not.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
We know this not so.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
But Hey you got, I got.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I'm in the part of the National Thespian Society anyway.
But yeah, like we definitely didn't have all of that.
I think I was more of the I go, I'm
just here. I'm not the cool kid, but I'm not
the nerdy kid. I wasn't in band which bands like
band geeks.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
I'm saying that as a title. I'm not calling you
geeks if you're a band. I was.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yeah, but like they have their own crew of people,
like they hung out with just themselves. I was like,
they were like if drama kids were there, it was
the band group, you know what I mean. And they
were a force, like they would win homecoming, King or
Queen because they were a force. I was like, huh, okay,
(25:41):
so people, so you don't mess with them, You don't
mess with them.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
We talked, we talked about the music I do.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
I think like the thing about this soundtrack that was
a little different is that they had a lot of
like in women led bands, and I really really appreciate that.
So the Cardigan's letters to Cleo, Say Ferris obviously Jon
Jet and the Black Hearts, which was at the very beginning.
We also laughed because they had bare naked ladies at
(26:16):
the very beginning too, and it threw me into like
so many like throwbacks to that white hilarious, but yeah,
like I really appreciate that they brought those to front.
They were popular in their own right, a lot of
skuf of course, say Ferris, I think it was music,
and I was like, yeah, that's all.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Right, yes, And if you haven't seen the movie, you
could probably tell from the plot breakdown. Music is very
important to cats, and that's one of the things that
they like, the dudes trying to help him scheme how
to get her to woo her, they'd like find out
her favorite music and all of this stuff, and it
(26:56):
was pretty comical because she'd be like you like in
certain fantier and he's like, oh, yeah, don't you, And
then he'd be all like, I can't believe you'd question
my taste. Leave me alone.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Of course, there's also the really like sexist like I
would never listen to that music. That's chick music, right, yes,
which came through a few times. Yes, of course, you know.
They also talked about Sylvia Plath, the feminine mystic. But
all these things I found fairly funny because I was like,
you can't take deeper, but it's okay. Sylvia Plath had
(27:34):
a hard life, had a hard, hard life, short life.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
And then of course, if we did talk about anything
and be like themes, it'd be the family sisterhood, like
the rival, like there was this level of discontent within
the family after the mother left, and whether it caused
him to be whether the father to be overly protective
and trying to keep them near him, or the sisters
to try to find their own selves. The Bianca finding
(28:12):
her items and using them, whether it is ci mental
or just because she thinks it's pretty. You kind of
don't get that hint, but I think it's somewhat sentimental
as the youngest daughter. And then you have the angry
cat who wants to forget her and blame her for
their troubles, partially blame her for her troubles their troubles
as well. You have that breakdown, but they do come together.
It's not the sweet sweet like, oh, they're gonna be
(28:34):
best friends, but it's just like an understanding of one another.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yes, exactly, because I think that's how she convinced Kat
to go to promos, Like Bianca convinced her to go
to promise like you went, I want to go. This
is like my time. I really want to do this.
Don't you understand that? Like, can we please do that?
And that's why Kat went. But she wasn't. There was
(28:58):
no like I'm so happy to go. But she was like,
all right, I've heard you, I understand you. I will go.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Yeah, let's do this. He wants me to go. We'll
have fun.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
In the story, and then somehow this dude who is
the troublemaker ends up bringing her favorite band letters to Cleo.
I don't know, I don't understand, but okay, Cole, you
do you that's amazing, which, by the way, is a
reference in Parks and rec as well, because Ben loves
that is his favorite band.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Oh yeah, I didn't really know who they were.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
The shirt and he's sit in the back like laughing
and like enjoying it.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
She winks at it. He's like, oh my god, she
winked at me.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
So many years later, if there was a theme, of course,
Shakespeare would be all into this, including the Sonnet, which
which I love like it was I think in this
era that we had where if you made it somewhat
hip hop then you made it cool. We have now
become a trope and like everybody laughs at it.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
This is during that era, and.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
We have this Sauna that now in famous Sunna that
she writes about hating him and everything he does, but
then she doesn't really hate him.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
And then we have Mendela, Cat's best friend we just
we don't talk about. She was in center stage in
the era too, with a ballet movie all the things
I remember anyway, and her actual love for Shakespeare to
the point that she says, I am involved. And she
gets that invite to the prom with Michael as posing
(30:39):
as Shakespeare.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Yes, somehow I managed to forget that detail. I don't
know how.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
I don't know how. Here's some fun facts. I always
love funding fun facts. Apparently Gordon Levin's and Styles actually dated. Oh,
they went to Colombia together, essentially. Later on turns out
that Ola Nick, who was the sister Bianca, went to
Sara Lawrence.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Uh oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Later on I thought that was really fun. I was like, oh,
that seems cute.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
There was a conversation about them doing a second one
to this, but after he led his death, I think
that kind of like faded away. There was a conversation
about him changing the movie completely and talking about mental
health and mental illness, uh, and even suicide.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
So I don't know.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
That this is the director talking about him to want
to do something, but I can't imagine it being.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Oo yeah, that would be incredibly difficult to pull off.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah, I don't know who would actually be like, yeah,
let's go watch this. They also talked about that this
was going to be on Broadway. I think they're still
talking about it, so I don't I don't know. It
makes sense kind of kind of.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
I mean, plenty of things we've talked about in here before.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
I when I read they have a Broadway version, I
was like, really, but apparently it's good, So I believe
it could happen.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Apparently it's good.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Yeah, And overall, I think when we talk about these movies,
we do talk about whether or not has it aged well?
And I think the answer is better than some but
still like, there's still some mortage and insults in here
that are like ouch, y'all didn't have to say that,
but I guess. But from that time, and I think
probably when I was that age and that type of
(32:41):
insults were okay and not looked down upon. We all
use that those not like it's not really it is extreme,
Like there's so many like ablest type of conversations, sexist
types of conversation, real like shame slut shaming conversations in
here that people were like.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
That's so funny.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Wait what Yeah, that's almost more like more of our
attitude has changed around it, like, yeah, so drastically that
it feels very Oh my gosh, I can't believe we
were laughing at that, yeah, or something like that.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
You're like, oh, I can't believe that we were okay
with this type of speech. It is reminiscent of the
time where when you know, Dawson's Creek came out and
everybody was in awe that teenagers were speaking so eloquently
with like, you know, for syllable words that no one knew.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
The meaning of.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
So because like that same level of this, apparently they
were originally looking at Katie Holmes and James Vanderbeek as
being the leads for this as well.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
I don't I can't imagine it.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yeah, that would be a different I think the vibe
would have been different.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
The vibe, but yeah, what Katie Holmes character in Dawson's Creek.
Is that of anti establishment as well.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Yeah, she's the She's definitely the bookie Brunette, the bookie Brunnette.
I want someone who's never watched that either, But I
just that was what I thought.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
I watched the first two seasons, and then I think
I got in trouble.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
I was watching it.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Yeah, then I shouldn't be watching it because it was.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
There were sex no, oh dear, and that can't be
happening on teenage shows.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
I remember there was a conversation about I believe it
was Katie Holmes character Joey like snuck into a guy's
through the window and it was this huge like everybody
was talking about it. And at the time I was
like a teenager, like what like.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
There was this level.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
But if you had a guy best friend and you
grew up that close to them, it made sense.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah, because I don't even know if it was sexual.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Sure, it wasn't ever far Like what started happening was
that he started realizing and she's always had a crush
on him, as it goes, but she he started realizing, Oh,
she's she's actually a girl and she's developing. Oh look
at those legs. I also remember Michelle Williams came in
and I can't remember why she ended up moving, but
(35:19):
she was so like obviously sexualized from Jump that people
were having a hard time, Like parents were.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Like, you shouldn't be watching this.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Wow. Yeah, that blonde.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Hair, that damn blonde hair made her do it, made
her be this. But yeah, so I think this is
if you've never watched it before, understand like pursued with caution.
This is a nineteen ninety nine movie and it.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Shows Yeah, And I think it's interesting because to me,
when I watched it, I was like, wow, this is
so much like less offensive than I thought it would be.
But that's because I kind of grew up with that stuff, right.
But if you're if you didn't, yeah, and you go back,
then I think it's very shocking.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yeah, it kind of because I remember it with so
much funness that I forgot, you know what I mean, Like, well.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah, that's why I've always recommended I don't have kids,
but before I would show anything to a kid that
I have memories for, I would rewatch it first.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
I don't remember being too this wasn't it too sexual
at least as in like showing anything, but they definitely
talk about things.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Yeah, yeah, and I mean it's this is unique to
this movie at all. Clearly it was based on Timming
of the Shrew, but it is the whole like idea
of paying a guy money to trick a girl into dating,
and there's there's some kind of manipulation.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Think the like cut scenes.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
They actually have a moment where the sister has a
reckoning because it's obviously is Bianca's partial doing and trying
to manipulate her sister. But like you don't actually ever
see this in Yeah, the show is just all on
Heath Ledger, which.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
Is still bad. He did it.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
He definitely did all the bad things. But you were
like no one talking about the fact that Cameron was
the one that was manipulating behind the scenes, Him and Michael.
Nobody they got off scot free, Okay, yeah, because it
was like it's strange that it was their plan to
so Cameron could date beyond, but she cat was the fallout,
(37:36):
like they can consider she's just the Shrew.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
We've got to fix up, got to fix her.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
You know what's going to fix her?
Speaker 1 (37:43):
A man, this troublesome man that might have gone to jail.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
He's losing I may have lost the liver.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
We'll set her up with that guy.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Oh oh, classics, I'm so glady to watch it. I'm
glad you liked it, Annie, I do like it with
its troublesome things even so.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Oh I had fun. I really liked it. So definitely,
if anyone was looking for a reason to revisit or
to watch her the first time again, go in with
this disclaimer. But I recommend it. I thought it was fun. Yes,
this will not be I don't even know if we're
gonna call it a feminist movie Friday. No, it's not
the only movie we're doing this month, because yes, we
(38:30):
do have a lot of heavy topics. But as always,
if you have thoughts about this or any suggestions, movie
or otherwise, you can email us at Seppania mom Stuff
at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram in TikTok at
stuff I've Never Told You or ulso on YouTube. And
we have a tea public store and a book you
(38:50):
can get wherever you get your book. Thanks as always too,
our super producer Christina, executive producer, My and your concertor Joey,
thank you and thanks to you for listening stuff I've
never told me the protection of my Heart Radio. For
more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check out
the heart Radio app, Apple podcast or where you listen
to your favorite shows,
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steff.
I never told your production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
And as we were talking about the episodes for the
show for the month of May, we realize many of
the topics we are bringing are not the most comforting
or easy topics, I guess, especially mine. I don't know
why I keep going to the dark, but I'm traveling
toward the dark side when it comes to episode themes. Apparently,
(00:41):
so we thought we would ease into the month with
some lighthearted content, right and with the recent twenty fifth
year anniversary celebration of the classic Ten Things I Hate
About You, I decided I needed to force any into
watching the classic and have a moment to talk about
(01:05):
the good, the bad, and the not so greatly aged
I guess content of the nineteen ninety nine retelling of
The Taming of the Shrew again Ten Things I Hate
About You?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yes, Annie, what did you think about the movie?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I enjoyed it. I had fun. I watched it last night. Yes,
this was my first time watching it. I thought it
was really fun. I left feeling like, oh, in a
good mood, and it had a lot of stuff that
I related to as I've talked about this before, but
(01:46):
in high school, I was definitely like the feminist, but
I was afraid of the word feminist, so I would
never call myself that. But I was definitely like this
character where I was. I was the one that was
why are we doing this and not this? So I
really add to a lot of it in it. I
enjoyed that, and as we were discussing, the music was
a real a real throwback.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
There's a throwbacks and there's so many throwbacks in this thing.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
The outphits, the classic ouphits, the type like baby Doll
t shirts, which I think they're all making a comebacks
or have made comebacks through and through.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
I loved this movie.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
This is when I was still in high school, so
definitely my time frame for sure. This was the introduction
of Heath Ledger, which is why you had said that
you did not watch.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
It's why I didn't watch an Okay, yeah, yeah, which
I still have not seen.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Which I loved that one as well. Both of these.
There was this whole era.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
And I was talking about this earlier around like this time.
This was right in the back in the middle of
taking classics and doing a retelling, so Clueless was one
of those. She's all that was one of those Bridget
Jones diary as we had already watched that was one
of those. Apparently I got all caught up into all
of these at a younger age as well. I was
(03:05):
just surprised. One of the surprises that I got was
that The Lion King was based on Hamlet, and I
was like, oh, well, that makes sense, but I didn't
think about it at that point, like it's one of
those things like, oh, okay, loosely, yes.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
You know. The funny thing too here is that's really
throwing me for a loop. It's the twenty fifth anniversary
of Star Wars The Phantom Menace. So when I when
this was out, I was watching that, which.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Would have been probably Cameron and Michael, who are the
nerdier ones of this movie, would have watched that as well,
but that was never referenced.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Obviously. Obviously, Yes, it's just odd. I didn't know that
they were in the same time, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
The things that you hit you're like, oh interesting. Two
thousands was a lot a lot. Nineteen nineties to early
two thousands was a lot. So the movie is written
by Karen McCullough and Kirsen Smith, who also wrote She's
the Man, which I referenced before, which is another movie
loosely based on Shakespeare's play as well, and also they
(04:13):
also wrote Legally Blonde together, so they're they're you know,
they're dynamic duo. This was directed by Gil Junger, which
takes place in a prominent high school in Seattle with
a bunch of very rich, well to do kids. I
don't think it ever really implies that they are, but
the school alone was like a castle. Yeah, so I'm
(04:33):
I'm gonna assume they all got they got away with
a lot, So I'm assume that this is like private school,
which is how illistated.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Archery and stuff like. That's that's fancy, right.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
So I'm like, I'm gonna go with that.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So this is has a cast that makes up the
list of nineties All Stars essentially. The movie shows the
interworkings of young people in the day in the life
of high school growing up. So not my high school.
Definitely not my high school, but kind of, I guess.
So we have Julia Styles as kat Larissa Oulinik, which
(05:09):
of the Secret World of Alex Mack.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Did you ever watch that? No, do you know what
I'm talking about?
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Nope, Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
This is a Nickelodeon show that was huge at one point,
and she had a big following of people. This was
our first, I want to say, first movie after her
big fame, so people were really excited to see her
in this role. She plays the sister Bianca, who lives
with their opprotective father played by Larry Miller. And yeah,
(05:38):
the father does a great job in penning the girls
against each other.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
That's the first thing I thought. I was like, Wow,
this is really bad parenting. But okay.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Then we have Cameron, a new student who falls in
love with the Bianca played by Joseph gordonvitt Levitt, who
was also pretty huge at this point. His new best
friend Michael played by David Crumholtz. We have outside players
such as Joey quote eat Meat, Donner You're welcome, played
by Andrew Keegan, who was getting big things to Seventh Heaven.
(06:06):
I don't remember that this is These are the things
that I remember in high school that I was like, Oh,
these are big people. People were really excited to see
them together. We also have Chastity, Bianca's best friend, played
by the icon, Gabrielle Union, who has said has been
in several of these, like nineties movies, like the nineties
early two thousand movie, and she still looks the same.
(06:27):
And of course the bad boy himself, Patrick Verona, played
by Heath Ledger. Yes, this was my tradiction to him,
as I said before, And we're going to shout out
to Alison J. D playing the not so helpful erotica
writing high school guidance counselor, who was great, perfect for.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
That role, to be honest.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
So let's jump into the plot. Cat and Bianca are
polar opposite sisters, but Bianca is the cheery, popular girl
that the boys all fall for, while Kat is an
angry anti establishment type who was ready to leave her
home to bigger and better things I Sarah Lawrence College.
(07:05):
Their father is an overprotective type and has to come
more so after their mother left, which is a problem
for Bianca, who is not allowed to date even though
there are so many invites from so many boys, including
the most popular. After a brief argument, the father will ents,
saying she can date if her sister Cat, who has
(07:25):
sworn that she would never date any of the high
schoolers or there until she does. With that, we have
Cameron and geeky friend Michael coming up with a plan
to get Cat a date, and the only person they
could find who could live up to that challenge is
the scary dude who may or may not have been
in jail, Patrick Verona. With the financial assistance of Joey,
(07:46):
who is also trying to date Bianca, they get Patrick
to woo Kat, so all these adventures happen. After some
hard work and manipulation, Kat agrees to go to a
party with Verona, which allows for beyond to go out
with Joey, who she was always.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Intending to date. This was an intent to her.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
At the party, we have the drunken dancing performed by
Julia Styles, which apparently they were going to give her
a choreographer because the director was dating Paula Abdul at
the time.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
This was I was like what what?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Who? I also, I love Paula Duel love loved I
can't tell you how much. Oh my god, anyway, going
back to but she refused and did this on her own,
so props to Julia Styles. Then we have Bianca realizing
she doesn't actually like Joey but likes Cameron We have
this awkward scene later of Kat being rejected by Verona
(08:40):
for a kiss because she was too drunk and he
was respecting that boundary. Yes, she got real drunk because
she was annoyed by the party and what the establishment
was doing, so you know all those things, which you know,
had this real sweet conversation between the two. Yay. But
there also because Bianca decides she didn't want to hang
out with joe anymore, gets stranded, gets a ride from Cameron,
(09:01):
and they have a sweet kiss as well.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Da da Da da da.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Later we have Patrick making it up to her with
an impromptu performance of Can't Take My Eyes Off You
in front of everyone with the band of course, and
being chased by security people, which leads to another date
where they go and throw paint balloons at each other. Yes, yes,
(09:27):
I just thought that was an interesting scene. Then we
soon find out that Kate had actually dated Joey and
he had pressured her into having sex and then she
didn't like it, and so she said she wasn't gonna
do it anymore, and then he dumped her, which is
why she doesn't like him at all.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Hello.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
But that all is good, as they all decide to
go to the prom, where Kat finds out that a
Verona actually was paid to take her out, even though
he tried to gaslight her and be.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Like, why do you think I have some motives? I
don't have any mode of it's just because I like you.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Lies, But yes, Kat finds that out there Bianca had
gone out with Cameron and found out that she was
a bet for Joey, which wasn't actually true. He said
he was gonna do for fun, but whatever, and she
punches him in the face. Fun scene twice twice. And
then we have Kat being very sad and they all
(10:28):
have an assignment, which was to rewrite the Sonnet, Shakespeare's Sonnet.
She gets up and reads hers and it has infamous
I don't hate you, not even little, not even at all,
apparently was shot in one take because she was so
good at it. And then later we have Verona apologizing
by giving her the guitar that she'd been eyeing throughout
(10:48):
the entire movie, and end scene everybody's happy. Yeah, was
(11:11):
there a favorite scene for you in there?
Speaker 1 (11:14):
There are a couple standouts. I really liked the montage,
the sports montage where she's like pissed Roona. I really
liked that part. Yeah, yeah, that just felt fair like
if I had been younger and I'd seen that, I
had been like, hell yeah, I did like the junk
(11:36):
dance that was that you had told me it was
something like that was going to be in there, and
I was not anticipating that.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
According to Mini excerpts, this is how she ended up
getting the role for Save the Last Dance because they
saw her doing table scene and they're like, oh, she can dance.
She's a white girl that can dance. Let's use her.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yes, she apparently it is another movie I need to watch.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Its need is a strong word. Did I love it?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
I loved it, But it was along the same lines
of me also loving Romeo Must Die. Uh Okay, there's
just like like grittiness that really wasn't there, That really
wasn't like it wasn't that low anyway. But you know, Aliah,
I loved Romeo Romeo Must Die. It might be one
of my top like twenty movies for sure anyway, But
(12:26):
for some reason, that was around the same timeframe for
me those two movies. M M.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
I haven't seen that one anything. The list got longer
and longer.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
I think I have an excuse to bring that one
to you either, Well.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
We'll see, we'll see. I did like that, like passing.
I liked the passing feminist like comments you would make,
because every time I watch an older movie, I'm kind
of like, oh wow, yeah, surprise, surprise. They were talking
about it then too, which I know is terrible, of
course they were, but sometimes especially I don't know, rom
(13:02):
com teenage ish movie, but I liked it. It's like, oh.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
It definitely had a little more umph and depth than
your typical teenage romance movies, where you see that is
okay to not be smiling all the time, and she
was the perfect character, like apparently. In an interview she
recently did for the twenty fifth anniversary and for her
upcoming projects, Julia Stiles was talked about how she was
(13:30):
told so many times that you need to have a
better persona. You need to be cheerier, you need to
be like smiling. You seem kind of like, you know, unapproachable.
But this role was so perfect for her because that
was what they needed. That they needed someone unapproachable and
who even though she could be, she didn't have to
be you know, something else. You could just be there
(13:52):
was the resting face essentially that got her this role.
But yeah, so talking about the movie, So I'm calling
this the part the themes and discussions, but more just
a discussion about the movie because I think there's so
much more in that, Like there's not a lot of
just like this is the point, this is a point.
It was definitely just one of those entertaining movies that
had a good feel to like, uh, turning a classic
(14:15):
into something different and more approachable in the late nineties
because definitely teaming of the show because you know, I
talked about the different renditions that were out there and
we were all like, yeah, this is not this is
not it because essentially, like the original version is like
he's really abusive, trying to get her to submit to him.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Yeah, and I was thinking about this too, because if
you've never read it, I mean she is the shrew obviously. Yeah,
and we still today get called that, like women who
are allowed or have like a quote shoal voice, like
Shrew's something that is lobbed against women a lot. And yeah,
so it's basically him wearing her down and taming her
(15:04):
because that's what's good for her, that's what's better for her.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Right and for everybody in fallow society obviously, But they
took this and kind of flipped it on the head
of like being a feminist and what that looks like
and how you can you can bring in both levels.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
There is a little.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Bit of an intersectionality hinted as we have the African
American professor who was like, oh, I feel so bad
for you, poor witch, upper class white girl, like, can
you tell me more of your woes? Like coming in
like we almost hit it, but we don't quite hit that.
You do. You have like a very like all white
(15:43):
cast except for the supporting two black characters, And you're like,
h m hm, cool, I guess uh. And of course
I'll go ahead and jump into the fact that yes,
the very bad like African crew or the Rastafarian crew
are all white people wishing they were black with bad dreads.
And I was like, oh god, at least I didn't
(16:03):
do blackface.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
I will give them that.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I know.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I know, but from that time frame, yeah, you never know.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
It's true even today but even worse.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
But like you're like, oh, like there's a point of
like they are making fun of them, at least like
they're not trying to encourage it and be like this
is obviously ridiculous, this is just go with it. Still
pretty racist, I don't think an aged Well, I get
what they were going for, and there were those people
that exist, so we know that they were there. But yeah,
(16:42):
so again there was also the question, and I think
it's a very good question, like they how much they
loved the character in several of the articles that I
read of Kat except for the one thing is like
she is so dismissive and a little bit antagonistic towards Bianca,
who is not like this, and the fact that you
know they're different. There are types of women and that's okay.
If a woman really likes dating and wants to wear
(17:06):
the makeup and have a different type of fashion, all
those things are okay too, And like it kind of
hinted at the fact that during this time frame and
still today about this like pitting women against each other.
And this was from one of the articles. Actually, this
was from the article from the New York Times they
had did with Julia Stiles. It says in two thousand
(17:27):
and two, according to the self appointed cultural anthropologist at
Newsweek magazine, there were exactly three types of teenage girls
in America. You could be an Alpha, a blonde who
loved cheerleading, worship Gwynneth and Vogue, and managed to be
both chee and nice. You could be a beta, which
was basically an aspiring alpha. Beta's reportedly took diet pills
(17:49):
as after school snacks, spent after prom at a motel,
and were tragically brunette. Or you could be a part
of the rising cohort of Gamma girls Buffy, the them
Pish Layer, watching flair jeans, wearing freethinkers who are obsessed
with Shakespeare, dated the class smart, and subscribed to Jane magazine,
(18:09):
the poster child for the Gamma girl Julia Styles. And
I guess you, Annie, as you said, if you're a
teenager at that point, I.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Mean, I don't think obsessed with Shakespeare, but I was
obsessed with like tragedies, So.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
I did think that was an interesting article.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
And Julia Styles's comment that I was like, ah, I
remember seeing this, and I remember really hating the fact
that why are they trying to compare me to other girls?
Speaker 3 (18:41):
This is so silly?
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah, And I think, like, I think there's a difference
between because this feels very pitting against other girls. It
also feels like in this case, you are rooting for
Julia Styles, I would say, in this movie, yeah, so
it feels like then all of the femininity that she
rejects is bad or worse. But instead, I think in
the movie, it's more she was hurt by this dude.
(19:06):
She's kind of put these walls up. She has some
like I would say, very accurate points, good points, good thoughts,
but in the end they sort of come together and
balance each other out, like her sister Bianca, Yeah and
her and so I think in the movie it's less
of pitting them against each other, although the element is there.
(19:30):
And but this feels very like she was better right
than your classic girly girl.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Right, I mean definitely the moments between Beyanka and Chastity
was interesting, especially towards the end, like they were competing
with each other for being the only sophomore prom and
having the date and all these things, which is a
whole different level of questions, which they did Chastity's character
dirty because why would.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
She flip like that?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Like it yeah nit, But it definitely did not hold
to like being friends friends, which I wish they had
a little more of but it's okay. Instead it was
like Henchman, I guess, type of thing like Lackey's for
them for everyone apparently, But I think for that era
during that time, it definitely was a lot of that.
(20:14):
We definitely saw that Christina Aguilera versus Britney Spears tropes,
any of the young popular stars. They were all against
each other. It was interesting that they continue to do
like that until oftentimes these stars would either quit or
just spiral during this time. So we definitely saw a
lot of that, and I feel like that was that
(20:35):
era in itself. And yeah, they had the pinning of
like blonde versus brunettes, which is still I think we've
talked about this as a full episode in itself. It's
just like why was this the thing?
Speaker 3 (20:45):
And I guess, why is this a thing?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
When hair color really can be changed so quickly and
does change on its own so quickly, says I, with
the amount of gray hairs that are coming. That's in fact,
I think like I had jet black hair too, like
less jet like it's still black, but it's still like
you can tell it's less. So like it's such an
odd thing, this conversation, like your blonde or your brunette
or your a redhead, and you were all didn't like
(21:09):
to be friends.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
You're like, that's interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
We've talked about this in several episodes. It's it is
strange to me how much we associate certain personality things
with hair type, hair color. It's it is very strange
and it's enduring. We still do it.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I mean, like even the hair type though, like being
curly versus not curly, Like it's short versus long.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Like if it's short, you're obviously tho.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
If it's tied back all the time in a ponytail,
then you're obviously this Like it's right, so many Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
We talked about that in the episode we did with
the Bob where it calls like a national panic. Like
we still do that though, when a when like a celebrity,
a woman cuts her hair and it's short, it's like,
what's happened to her?
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Did you just go through a breakup? Don't don't don't
do a girl.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
It's an odd concept, but it was very I feel
like these are very reminiscent of those times. As we
said up of course earlier about the bad stereotypes, the
fact that they had them.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
It was very clueless as well. That was like that.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Was your high school like that because you were you
were several years younger than me. I was already probably
out of college when you were in high school. Like like, oh,
the stereotypes, like the jocks. They had cowboys, which we
had f f A guys. They weren't cowboys, but they
were f f A like they were specific to a
(22:45):
future Home Amerkers Association, and then f f A which
is Feature Farmers of America, which is funny because my
brother was a part of that.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
We are not a farming family. Never happened.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
No, yeah, he's become more. He does own goats. I
found that out recently. I'm very cute anyway, But like
we had bad instead of cowboys, and they definitely did
hang out the jobs. I guess there was a group
of jocks that did hang out, but again this was
my time frame. Yeah, but the drama kids, so we
all split. There were so many different types of people,
(23:21):
so like we had the head cheerleader being the lead
actress in drama. We had the like the lead football
quarterback as in drama, and then we had people who
were outsiders. I guess for quote unquote all intents and
purposes who were also a part of drama. So that
drama was really interesting and it may even because of
our teacher who was amazing, But like it wasn't We
(23:42):
didn't have dramakas. That was not a thing, because dramakas
could be anything that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
We had drama kids. They I would say, like, we
definitely had the sports and then the popular popular group yeah,
and then kind of your heavy metal music gos crew.
I was in the like we're nice, you can sit
here group, yeah, but the drama kids would sometimes would
(24:12):
mix because we we are also where a lot of
us were in drama. But there was a specific group that.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Was like, are you in the Thespian Society? No, I've
made in the Thespian Society within the first year because
I did so many hours as a stage manager.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
It was awful anyway, I love drama.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Being the stage manager without any experience was real dumb
because I was the stage manager for a competition and
she just put me in there, like you know what
you're doing.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
I was like, no, I don't.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Because I also gave the ore that was I was
organized and I am not.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
We know this not so.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
But Hey you got, I got.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I'm in the part of the National Thespian Society anyway.
But yeah, like we definitely didn't have all of that.
I think I was more of the I go, I'm
just here. I'm not the cool kid, but I'm not
the nerdy kid. I wasn't in band which bands like
band geeks.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
I'm saying that as a title. I'm not calling you
geeks if you're a band. I was.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yeah, but like they have their own crew of people,
like they hung out with just themselves. I was like,
they were like if drama kids were there, it was
the band group, you know what I mean. And they
were a force, like they would win homecoming, King or
Queen because they were a force. I was like, huh, okay,
(25:41):
so people, so you don't mess with them, You don't
mess with them.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
We talked, we talked about the music I do.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
I think like the thing about this soundtrack that was
a little different is that they had a lot of
like in women led bands, and I really really appreciate that.
So the Cardigan's letters to Cleo, Say Ferris obviously Jon
Jet and the Black Hearts, which was at the very beginning.
We also laughed because they had bare naked ladies at
(26:16):
the very beginning too, and it threw me into like
so many like throwbacks to that white hilarious, but yeah,
like I really appreciate that they brought those to front.
They were popular in their own right, a lot of
skuf of course, say Ferris, I think it was music,
and I was like, yeah, that's all.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Right, yes, And if you haven't seen the movie, you
could probably tell from the plot breakdown. Music is very
important to cats, and that's one of the things that
they like, the dudes trying to help him scheme how
to get her to woo her, they'd like find out
her favorite music and all of this stuff, and it
(26:56):
was pretty comical because she'd be like you like in
certain fantier and he's like, oh, yeah, don't you, And
then he'd be all like, I can't believe you'd question
my taste. Leave me alone.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Of course, there's also the really like sexist like I
would never listen to that music. That's chick music, right, yes,
which came through a few times. Yes, of course, you know.
They also talked about Sylvia Plath, the feminine mystic. But
all these things I found fairly funny because I was like,
you can't take deeper, but it's okay. Sylvia Plath had
(27:34):
a hard life, had a hard, hard life, short life.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
And then of course, if we did talk about anything
and be like themes, it'd be the family sisterhood, like
the rival, like there was this level of discontent within
the family after the mother left, and whether it caused
him to be whether the father to be overly protective
and trying to keep them near him, or the sisters
to try to find their own selves. The Bianca finding
(28:12):
her items and using them, whether it is ci mental
or just because she thinks it's pretty. You kind of
don't get that hint, but I think it's somewhat sentimental
as the youngest daughter. And then you have the angry
cat who wants to forget her and blame her for
their troubles, partially blame her for her troubles their troubles
as well. You have that breakdown, but they do come together.
It's not the sweet sweet like, oh, they're gonna be
(28:34):
best friends, but it's just like an understanding of one another.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yes, exactly, because I think that's how she convinced Kat
to go to promos, Like Bianca convinced her to go
to promise like you went, I want to go. This
is like my time. I really want to do this.
Don't you understand that? Like, can we please do that?
And that's why Kat went. But she wasn't. There was
(28:58):
no like I'm so happy to go. But she was like,
all right, I've heard you, I understand you. I will go.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Yeah, let's do this. He wants me to go. We'll
have fun.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
In the story, and then somehow this dude who is
the troublemaker ends up bringing her favorite band letters to Cleo.
I don't know, I don't understand, but okay, Cole, you
do you that's amazing, which, by the way, is a
reference in Parks and rec as well, because Ben loves
that is his favorite band.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Oh yeah, I didn't really know who they were.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
The shirt and he's sit in the back like laughing
and like enjoying it.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
She winks at it. He's like, oh my god, she
winked at me.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
So many years later, if there was a theme, of course,
Shakespeare would be all into this, including the Sonnet, which
which I love like it was I think in this
era that we had where if you made it somewhat
hip hop then you made it cool. We have now
become a trope and like everybody laughs at it.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
This is during that era, and.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
We have this Sauna that now in famous Sunna that
she writes about hating him and everything he does, but
then she doesn't really hate him.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
And then we have Mendela, Cat's best friend we just
we don't talk about. She was in center stage in
the era too, with a ballet movie all the things
I remember anyway, and her actual love for Shakespeare to
the point that she says, I am involved. And she
gets that invite to the prom with Michael as posing
(30:39):
as Shakespeare.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Yes, somehow I managed to forget that detail. I don't
know how.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
I don't know how. Here's some fun facts. I always
love funding fun facts. Apparently Gordon Levin's and Styles actually dated. Oh,
they went to Colombia together, essentially. Later on turns out
that Ola Nick, who was the sister Bianca, went to
Sara Lawrence.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Uh oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Later on I thought that was really fun. I was like, oh,
that seems cute.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
There was a conversation about them doing a second one
to this, but after he led his death, I think
that kind of like faded away. There was a conversation
about him changing the movie completely and talking about mental
health and mental illness, uh, and even suicide.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
So I don't know.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
That this is the director talking about him to want
to do something, but I can't imagine it being.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Oo yeah, that would be incredibly difficult to pull off.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah, I don't know who would actually be like, yeah,
let's go watch this. They also talked about that this
was going to be on Broadway. I think they're still
talking about it, so I don't I don't know. It
makes sense kind of kind of.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
I mean, plenty of things we've talked about in here before.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
I when I read they have a Broadway version, I
was like, really, but apparently it's good, So I believe
it could happen.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Apparently it's good.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Yeah, And overall, I think when we talk about these movies,
we do talk about whether or not has it aged well?
And I think the answer is better than some but
still like, there's still some mortage and insults in here
that are like ouch, y'all didn't have to say that,
but I guess. But from that time, and I think
probably when I was that age and that type of
(32:41):
insults were okay and not looked down upon. We all
use that those not like it's not really it is extreme,
Like there's so many like ablest type of conversations, sexist
types of conversation, real like shame slut shaming conversations in
here that people were like.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
That's so funny.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Wait what Yeah, that's almost more like more of our
attitude has changed around it, like, yeah, so drastically that
it feels very Oh my gosh, I can't believe we
were laughing at that, yeah, or something like that.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
You're like, oh, I can't believe that we were okay
with this type of speech. It is reminiscent of the
time where when you know, Dawson's Creek came out and
everybody was in awe that teenagers were speaking so eloquently
with like, you know, for syllable words that no one knew.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
The meaning of.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
So because like that same level of this, apparently they
were originally looking at Katie Holmes and James Vanderbeek as
being the leads for this as well.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
I don't I can't imagine it.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yeah, that would be a different I think the vibe
would have been different.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
The vibe, but yeah, what Katie Holmes character in Dawson's Creek.
Is that of anti establishment as well.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Yeah, she's the She's definitely the bookie Brunette, the bookie Brunnette.
I want someone who's never watched that either, But I
just that was what I thought.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
I watched the first two seasons, and then I think
I got in trouble.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
I was watching it.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Yeah, then I shouldn't be watching it because it was.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
There were sex no, oh dear, and that can't be
happening on teenage shows.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
I remember there was a conversation about I believe it
was Katie Holmes character Joey like snuck into a guy's
through the window and it was this huge like everybody
was talking about it. And at the time I was
like a teenager, like what like.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
There was this level.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
But if you had a guy best friend and you
grew up that close to them, it made sense.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah, because I don't even know if it was sexual.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Sure, it wasn't ever far Like what started happening was
that he started realizing and she's always had a crush
on him, as it goes, but she he started realizing, Oh,
she's she's actually a girl and she's developing. Oh look
at those legs. I also remember Michelle Williams came in
and I can't remember why she ended up moving, but
(35:19):
she was so like obviously sexualized from Jump that people
were having a hard time, Like parents were.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Like, you shouldn't be watching this.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Wow. Yeah, that blonde.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Hair, that damn blonde hair made her do it, made
her be this. But yeah, so I think this is
if you've never watched it before, understand like pursued with caution.
This is a nineteen ninety nine movie and it.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Shows Yeah, And I think it's interesting because to me,
when I watched it, I was like, wow, this is
so much like less offensive than I thought it would be.
But that's because I kind of grew up with that stuff, right.
But if you're if you didn't, yeah, and you go back,
then I think it's very shocking.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yeah, it kind of because I remember it with so
much funness that I forgot, you know what I mean, Like, well.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah, that's why I've always recommended I don't have kids,
but before I would show anything to a kid that
I have memories for, I would rewatch it first.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
I don't remember being too this wasn't it too sexual
at least as in like showing anything, but they definitely
talk about things.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Yeah, yeah, and I mean it's this is unique to
this movie at all. Clearly it was based on Timming
of the Shrew, but it is the whole like idea
of paying a guy money to trick a girl into dating,
and there's there's some kind of manipulation.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Think the like cut scenes.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
They actually have a moment where the sister has a
reckoning because it's obviously is Bianca's partial doing and trying
to manipulate her sister. But like you don't actually ever
see this in Yeah, the show is just all on
Heath Ledger, which.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
Is still bad. He did it.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
He definitely did all the bad things. But you were
like no one talking about the fact that Cameron was
the one that was manipulating behind the scenes, Him and Michael.
Nobody they got off scot free, Okay, yeah, because it
was like it's strange that it was their plan to
so Cameron could date beyond, but she cat was the fallout,
(37:36):
like they can consider she's just the Shrew.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
We've got to fix up, got to fix her.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
You know what's going to fix her?
Speaker 1 (37:43):
A man, this troublesome man that might have gone to jail.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
He's losing I may have lost the liver.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
We'll set her up with that guy.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Oh oh, classics, I'm so glady to watch it. I'm
glad you liked it, Annie, I do like it with
its troublesome things even so.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Oh I had fun. I really liked it. So definitely,
if anyone was looking for a reason to revisit or
to watch her the first time again, go in with
this disclaimer. But I recommend it. I thought it was fun. Yes,
this will not be I don't even know if we're
gonna call it a feminist movie Friday. No, it's not
the only movie we're doing this month, because yes, we
(38:30):
do have a lot of heavy topics. But as always,
if you have thoughts about this or any suggestions, movie
or otherwise, you can email us at Seppania mom Stuff
at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram in TikTok at
stuff I've Never Told You or ulso on YouTube. And
we have a tea public store and a book you
(38:50):
can get wherever you get your book. Thanks as always too,
our super producer Christina, executive producer, My and your concertor Joey,
thank you and thanks to you for listening stuff I've
never told me the protection of my Heart Radio. For
more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check out
the heart Radio app, Apple podcast or where you listen
to your favorite shows,
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