March 14, 2023 • 11 mins
We look into what's going on with the feminist movement in South Korea.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane.
Never told your production of iHeartRadio, And I guess we
need to do a timestamp, don't I March tenth and
we missed, I guess technically saying anything about International Women's Day.
(00:29):
So happy belated International Women's Day to all the people.
Yeah out there history you know many things. There's so
many things. But you know, even though we're a little
bit behind, we're still trekking because what we do is
talk about women and talk about those who identify as women,
(00:50):
non binary people, all the folks who identify as feminists.
That's who we talk about. And today I thought we
would take the moment to talk about what is happening
and all the different movements that is happening in South Korea.
I believe I've mentioned previously some of the things that
have happened there, but I thought we do a little
bit of a refresher first. We wanted to give you
(01:10):
some context. South Korea has been hit hard with anti
feminist attitudes across the country the last few years, and
even though government officials have talked about changed previously, many
of the things have been ignored or outright spoken against
just recently. Yes, and also just to note, as with
many of these, is going to be some pronunciation difficulties,
(01:33):
but we're going to try our best. Yeah, pronunciations difficulties
and some hard issues content warning. Yeahhh. The current president,
President Yunsuku, used a platform of anti feminism to help
him win in twenty twenty two. He pushed an agenda
accusing misandry and the use of gender equality policies as
the downfall for the jobs market, according to the twenty
(01:56):
twenty three report that was made by the Human Rights
Watch organization QUOTE. During his campaign for president, President Yune
made frequent appeals to anti feminist male voters, blamed feminism
for the decline in the birth rate, and pledged to
abolish the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family, which he
is currently trying to dismantle. And Yeah. For a country
(02:17):
that is at the bottom of the list of developed
countries for the rice and safety of women, the latest
shift in feminism isn't good news, as in fact, The
Economist has ranked South Korea as the worst quote working
environment for women. The ginger gap for the country has
also helped keep the country at the bottom of this list,
with a gap of over thirty one percent. Many attribute
(02:38):
the sexist ideas as the reason for continuing discrimination, including
that women could get pregnant and oftentimes due to their
pregnancy or having children, they are forced to leave their jobs.
And many experts have talked about how not having more
women in the workplace is a misuse of amazing talent
and that the South Korean women who have some of
the highest educational attainment end up having the least amount
(03:01):
of employment opportunities or job promotions and any positions in management.
So there's a lot of conversation about what's happening, but
the discrimination isn't just due to career in business. Some
of the biggest stigmas against women are based largely on
looks and unrealistic beauty standards. South Korea's makeup and beauty
brand and industry has become an international market, and much
(03:24):
of the advertising is about being the perfect woman, and
that includes complexion of skin all of that. In fact,
women with short haircuts are often targets of harassment and ridicule,
ridiculing them saying that they're lesbians, and even if they are,
I don't understand why that's the thing, but they continue
to harass them for that, to the point that many
(03:44):
women have run away, and it has kind of become
a symbol for women and feminism to have that short haircut.
And yeah, even if you're an Olympian with a short haircut,
you're not protected. They will come after you as well,
and we've seen that happen. But with all of that,
not so great news comes those who do bring some
light to this. As much backlash feminism may have gotten,
(04:06):
it can't be denied that there are those who are
pushing forward. South Korea had one of the most successful
me too movements in Asia, holding many officials accountable for
their harassment in the workplace. That includes them losing jobs,
being taken off of political seats, all of that, so
some things are happening. In twenty nineteen, South Korea had
a escaped the corset movement, where women publicly rejected the
(04:29):
Korean beauty standards. Activists and photographers like Jeong Bora have
done several exhibitions to quote destroy the socially defined idea
of a woman, which is what she told NPR. And
after the stabbing of a woman in twenty sixteen, many
women came to other in movements to spread awareness of
the wide prevailing harassment, including the practice of murka or
(04:49):
filming women in bathrooms or upskirt shots, where most of
the predators are men and oftentimes are released with little
to no consequences. And all the while, a woman who
took a picture of a and who often left a
classroom naked after modeling nude for art school, posted it online.
She was charged with jail time. Right, it was really
significant because nobody had been given this type of a sentence,
(05:13):
but because this man, who always known for publicly flashing
women in the after leaving class, was mad that it
was posted, and so the judge gave her a harsh
sentence of actual jail time, and movements like these are
still happening, including the four B movement. According to different reports,
four B may have started many years ago, but the
(05:34):
beginning of its popularity may have come around twenty sixteen
with the original idea of the hashtag no marriage lifestyle,
which became a little more complex, becoming more like boycotting
men and reproductive labor altogether. So the estimated number of
participants have been skewed from five thousand to fifty thousand people.
The title four B is a breakdown of the four
(05:56):
nos or B the wording Korean, which represents as the
following b sex, no sex, beach youll's son, no child rearing,
bon nay, no dating, and bijun no marriage to men.
So there's idea is that there's been no sex, no
child rearing, no dating, and no marriage to men, no
heterald sexual marriage to men essentially. And in this movement,
(06:18):
there were two women, Jung Say Young and Buck Hanna
two who were the ones behind the hashtag no marriage movement,
And obviously this idea has become more popular with their
outspokenness of the movement. I believe they have a YouTube channel.
I don't know if it's still going, but they did anyway.
And then the novel turned movie Kim Jong born nineteen
eighty two has brought a lot of awareness to the
(06:40):
movement as well and kind of started in a new wave,
not thinking that this this will happen in like twenty nineteen.
So it's been recent. Yeah, And the four movement could
(07:01):
be seen as the counter movement of the Ill Bay,
which came out around twenty fourteen and is in an
anti feminist group that assumes that women are gold digging
shall humans that benefit from additional rights and privileges, like
not being required to serve in the national military. The
FOREBE movement is about women finding emotional and financial independence
(07:21):
from men, advising women to save money on not buying quote,
self fashioning labor, to be able to live independently in
the future, and many of the four B women feel
this lifestyle is the only way to have autonomy in
South Korea and to push back on the misogyny of
the country right and even if the women in the
country may not follow all the ideas of the FOREB movement,
(07:43):
many feel similarly about the idea of marriage within the country.
With the possibility of the current government dismantling the progress
that was made earlier, such as abolishing of the Ministry
of Gender Equality and Family, many women are turning away
from the idea of family and children altogether. The birth
rate for the country has been the lowest in the world,
and the government really is not helping the situations, so
(08:04):
with things like the National Birth Map, which many women
see as an offensive tool that treats people with uterses
like livestock and yeah, there's been a lot of programs
to try to incentivize women getting pregnant is interesting and
with the many challenges organizations like for B faces as
(08:25):
the terrifying misogynistic environment that the government seems to be fostering,
they have challenges within the group as well. They seem
to be more focused on the issues as a single
issue of gender, and we know that could be a
problems women specifically just SIS women and not always being
inclusive on the trans community. Again, this is a newer
organization that we're talking about, so I'm not really sure
(08:45):
the bigger picture, and maybe for those in South Korea
or involved in the activism can let us know. But
there has been talked that there feels like there's an
exclusionary part to the trans community, you know, and if
we learned anything from history, focusing only on an issue
instead of looking at the intersectionality of these issues will
lead to more problems and very little actions. So hopefully
(09:07):
they will kind of come together and see that understanding
that it is not just a single thing, but in
order to dismantle it, you have to dismantle all of
the things. So right, all right, right, But there is
a lot happening in the country as the marginalized community
in South Korea continues to fight against the oppression which
has been supported outright by the current government, and many
(09:29):
are coming out to publicly show their support of the
movements against the suppression. In twenty twenty two, protests occurred
throughout the country to show the people's disapproval of President
Yun's actions and policies, and organizations like for b and
HEYL which is Korean for Tsunami continue to advocate for
the people in these communities. As the leader of Hayl
(09:51):
Lead told MPR, what makes me hopeful are my fellow
feminist friends seeing women like me who have short hair
with no makeup and women's rights protest that show that
we are not alone. Yeah, and we will continue to
watch what's going on because I feel like a lot
of the countries are going through similar things at this
point in time with our government. Yeah, and we're no
strangers to seeing what's happening feeling those oppressive ideals as well.
(10:16):
But we wanted to keep a tabs on what's going
on and hopefully there'll be some good news. There always
typically is, even if it's full's dark. Yes, it's always
look for the lights, you know that, you know the
whole thing I try, Yes, yes, well, yeah, well, we'll
definitely check back in on this and if anybody is
(10:39):
participating in this, there's more about this in South Korea
or were on the world. We would love to hear
from you. You can email us at Steffandia Mom Stuff
at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at momsa podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff
Mom Never Told. You can also find us on YouTube.
Thanks as always too, our super producer Christina, our executive
(11:00):
producer Maya, and our frequent contributor researcher TikTok TikTok or
extraordinaire Joey. Yes, yes, yes, thank you' all, Yes, and
thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told us
the protection of iHeartRadio from more podcast from my Heart Radio,
you can check out the Heart Radio, Apple podcast, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane.
Never told your production of iHeartRadio, And I guess we
need to do a timestamp, don't I March tenth and
we missed, I guess technically saying anything about International Women's Day.
(00:29):
So happy belated International Women's Day to all the people.
Yeah out there history you know many things. There's so
many things. But you know, even though we're a little
bit behind, we're still trekking because what we do is
talk about women and talk about those who identify as women,
(00:50):
non binary people, all the folks who identify as feminists.
That's who we talk about. And today I thought we
would take the moment to talk about what is happening
and all the different movements that is happening in South Korea.
I believe I've mentioned previously some of the things that
have happened there, but I thought we do a little
bit of a refresher first. We wanted to give you
(01:10):
some context. South Korea has been hit hard with anti
feminist attitudes across the country the last few years, and
even though government officials have talked about changed previously, many
of the things have been ignored or outright spoken against
just recently. Yes, and also just to note, as with
many of these, is going to be some pronunciation difficulties,
(01:33):
but we're going to try our best. Yeah, pronunciations difficulties
and some hard issues content warning. Yeahhh. The current president,
President Yunsuku, used a platform of anti feminism to help
him win in twenty twenty two. He pushed an agenda
accusing misandry and the use of gender equality policies as
the downfall for the jobs market, according to the twenty
(01:56):
twenty three report that was made by the Human Rights
Watch organization QUOTE. During his campaign for president, President Yune
made frequent appeals to anti feminist male voters, blamed feminism
for the decline in the birth rate, and pledged to
abolish the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family, which he
is currently trying to dismantle. And Yeah. For a country
(02:17):
that is at the bottom of the list of developed
countries for the rice and safety of women, the latest
shift in feminism isn't good news, as in fact, The
Economist has ranked South Korea as the worst quote working
environment for women. The ginger gap for the country has
also helped keep the country at the bottom of this list,
with a gap of over thirty one percent. Many attribute
(02:38):
the sexist ideas as the reason for continuing discrimination, including
that women could get pregnant and oftentimes due to their
pregnancy or having children, they are forced to leave their jobs.
And many experts have talked about how not having more
women in the workplace is a misuse of amazing talent
and that the South Korean women who have some of
the highest educational attainment end up having the least amount
(03:01):
of employment opportunities or job promotions and any positions in management.
So there's a lot of conversation about what's happening, but
the discrimination isn't just due to career in business. Some
of the biggest stigmas against women are based largely on
looks and unrealistic beauty standards. South Korea's makeup and beauty
brand and industry has become an international market, and much
(03:24):
of the advertising is about being the perfect woman, and
that includes complexion of skin all of that. In fact,
women with short haircuts are often targets of harassment and ridicule,
ridiculing them saying that they're lesbians, and even if they are,
I don't understand why that's the thing, but they continue
to harass them for that, to the point that many
(03:44):
women have run away, and it has kind of become
a symbol for women and feminism to have that short haircut.
And yeah, even if you're an Olympian with a short haircut,
you're not protected. They will come after you as well,
and we've seen that happen. But with all of that,
not so great news comes those who do bring some
light to this. As much backlash feminism may have gotten,
(04:06):
it can't be denied that there are those who are
pushing forward. South Korea had one of the most successful
me too movements in Asia, holding many officials accountable for
their harassment in the workplace. That includes them losing jobs,
being taken off of political seats, all of that, so
some things are happening. In twenty nineteen, South Korea had
a escaped the corset movement, where women publicly rejected the
(04:29):
Korean beauty standards. Activists and photographers like Jeong Bora have
done several exhibitions to quote destroy the socially defined idea
of a woman, which is what she told NPR. And
after the stabbing of a woman in twenty sixteen, many
women came to other in movements to spread awareness of
the wide prevailing harassment, including the practice of murka or
(04:49):
filming women in bathrooms or upskirt shots, where most of
the predators are men and oftentimes are released with little
to no consequences. And all the while, a woman who
took a picture of a and who often left a
classroom naked after modeling nude for art school, posted it online.
She was charged with jail time. Right, it was really
significant because nobody had been given this type of a sentence,
(05:13):
but because this man, who always known for publicly flashing
women in the after leaving class, was mad that it
was posted, and so the judge gave her a harsh
sentence of actual jail time, and movements like these are
still happening, including the four B movement. According to different reports,
four B may have started many years ago, but the
(05:34):
beginning of its popularity may have come around twenty sixteen
with the original idea of the hashtag no marriage lifestyle,
which became a little more complex, becoming more like boycotting
men and reproductive labor altogether. So the estimated number of
participants have been skewed from five thousand to fifty thousand people.
The title four B is a breakdown of the four
(05:56):
nos or B the wording Korean, which represents as the
following b sex, no sex, beach youll's son, no child rearing,
bon nay, no dating, and bijun no marriage to men.
So there's idea is that there's been no sex, no
child rearing, no dating, and no marriage to men, no
heterald sexual marriage to men essentially. And in this movement,
(06:18):
there were two women, Jung Say Young and Buck Hanna
two who were the ones behind the hashtag no marriage movement,
And obviously this idea has become more popular with their
outspokenness of the movement. I believe they have a YouTube channel.
I don't know if it's still going, but they did anyway.
And then the novel turned movie Kim Jong born nineteen
eighty two has brought a lot of awareness to the
(06:40):
movement as well and kind of started in a new wave,
not thinking that this this will happen in like twenty nineteen.
So it's been recent. Yeah, And the four movement could
(07:01):
be seen as the counter movement of the Ill Bay,
which came out around twenty fourteen and is in an
anti feminist group that assumes that women are gold digging
shall humans that benefit from additional rights and privileges, like
not being required to serve in the national military. The
FOREBE movement is about women finding emotional and financial independence
(07:21):
from men, advising women to save money on not buying quote,
self fashioning labor, to be able to live independently in
the future, and many of the four B women feel
this lifestyle is the only way to have autonomy in
South Korea and to push back on the misogyny of
the country right and even if the women in the
country may not follow all the ideas of the FOREB movement,
(07:43):
many feel similarly about the idea of marriage within the country.
With the possibility of the current government dismantling the progress
that was made earlier, such as abolishing of the Ministry
of Gender Equality and Family, many women are turning away
from the idea of family and children altogether. The birth
rate for the country has been the lowest in the world,
and the government really is not helping the situations, so
(08:04):
with things like the National Birth Map, which many women
see as an offensive tool that treats people with uterses
like livestock and yeah, there's been a lot of programs
to try to incentivize women getting pregnant is interesting and
with the many challenges organizations like for B faces as
(08:25):
the terrifying misogynistic environment that the government seems to be fostering,
they have challenges within the group as well. They seem
to be more focused on the issues as a single
issue of gender, and we know that could be a
problems women specifically just SIS women and not always being
inclusive on the trans community. Again, this is a newer
organization that we're talking about, so I'm not really sure
(08:45):
the bigger picture, and maybe for those in South Korea
or involved in the activism can let us know. But
there has been talked that there feels like there's an
exclusionary part to the trans community, you know, and if
we learned anything from history, focusing only on an issue
instead of looking at the intersectionality of these issues will
lead to more problems and very little actions. So hopefully
(09:07):
they will kind of come together and see that understanding
that it is not just a single thing, but in
order to dismantle it, you have to dismantle all of
the things. So right, all right, right, But there is
a lot happening in the country as the marginalized community
in South Korea continues to fight against the oppression which
has been supported outright by the current government, and many
(09:29):
are coming out to publicly show their support of the
movements against the suppression. In twenty twenty two, protests occurred
throughout the country to show the people's disapproval of President
Yun's actions and policies, and organizations like for b and
HEYL which is Korean for Tsunami continue to advocate for
the people in these communities. As the leader of Hayl
(09:51):
Lead told MPR, what makes me hopeful are my fellow
feminist friends seeing women like me who have short hair
with no makeup and women's rights protest that show that
we are not alone. Yeah, and we will continue to
watch what's going on because I feel like a lot
of the countries are going through similar things at this
point in time with our government. Yeah, and we're no
strangers to seeing what's happening feeling those oppressive ideals as well.
(10:16):
But we wanted to keep a tabs on what's going
on and hopefully there'll be some good news. There always
typically is, even if it's full's dark. Yes, it's always
look for the lights, you know that, you know the
whole thing I try, Yes, yes, well, yeah, well, we'll
definitely check back in on this and if anybody is
(10:39):
participating in this, there's more about this in South Korea
or were on the world. We would love to hear
from you. You can email us at Steffandia Mom Stuff
at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at momsa podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff
Mom Never Told. You can also find us on YouTube.
Thanks as always too, our super producer Christina, our executive
(11:00):
producer Maya, and our frequent contributor researcher TikTok TikTok or
extraordinaire Joey. Yes, yes, yes, thank you' all, Yes, and
thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told us
the protection of iHeartRadio from more podcast from my Heart Radio,
you can check out the Heart Radio, Apple podcast, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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