June 6, 2024 • 36 mins
We continue our Sex and the City watch series with an episode that has not aged well at all when it comes to gender and sexual orientation.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. Welcome to stuff I
Never told you a prediction by Heart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And welcome to another happy hour edition of rewatching for me,
first time watching for any of Sex and the City.
And yes we are in season three, episode four. If
you are drinking or doing whatever, do so responsibly. This
is an adult show. I think it is rated TVMA.
(00:42):
So if you're new to this and you're like, oh,
I'll jump in, just know probably don't want to listen
around children. Because we are not watching the edited version.
So this is not from the CW. The CW still exists,
it does, Okay, Bravo. I think it's on Bravo if
we are watching if you have Netflix not a sponsor
(01:04):
that version because that's unedited, right, is un edited?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
It is, but we're not watching it on I'm not watching.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Oh yeah, I'm just thinking like the access many people
are more likely to access it through Netflix than than Max.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I mean we've mentioned that recently, but that has been
an interesting thing that has come out of Sex and
the City being.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Available on Netflix. Yes, now a lot.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Of younger people are seeing it for the first time
and having some thoughts.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yes, And speaking of which, So this episode is one
of those episodes that I have been warning Annie about
because this season is a roller coaster of a season.
I think it's fairly offensive. It has not aged well,
I will guarantee, because I feel like it's been a minute.
So I've seen this episode, but I remember watching it
then going oh, eh no. And it's kind of one
(01:55):
of those things where we are going to I'm going
to spoiler alert talk about bisexuality, and in it, like
there's some very dated references to bisexuality, and we already
know the level of discrimination that happens from both the
queer and the heterosexual community when it comes to bisexuality,
(02:16):
and it kind of perpetuates that. So go ahead and
put that at the top. They try to make funny jokes.
It doesn't land, but there are other parts to it
that is interesting at the very least. So with all
of that, we're going to do our tradition. Now I've
given you a big hint, Amy, so you know, you know,
(02:38):
first and foremost, can you recap for us what has
been happening on season three?
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
So this season, I feel like we've started with most
of the team and turmoil again. I feel like Samantle's
always doing her own thing. But Carrie broke up with
Bigs and then saw wedding advertisements. I said big because
that's Star Wars. I'm so sorry, mister big size for him.
(03:09):
And you always say bridget Natasha, Yes, and then they've
run into each other. So there's been some like drama
and hurt around that. Charlotte is once again trying to
find a husband, very determined, was talking about finding a
political husband or all kinds of things.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
She's looking.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Miranda is trying to be independent but still has Steve
in her life and is trying to find out what
she wants with him and with her life and what
that means for her independence. And yeah, Samantha's just living
the best the best time.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Samantha is Samantha ing yes as we like to say it. Okay,
So for this title, it is boy girl, boy girl.
Do you have a clue about what this could be?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
You have a clue, I have a clue. I have
a clue.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
If it's if you feel, based on what you said
that it's like bisexuality or rasure, then I would say
it has something.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
To do with either you like boys or you like girls.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
You don't like either, but where would this come up
at the club at brunch?
Speaker 4 (04:38):
In the club or the brunch.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Because I feel like that I'm not I'm not giving
any specifics, but I guess that's why there's going to
be talk about it's this or that.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Okay, I get okay, Oh I forgot.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
There is a nineties icon that's two thousand's icon of
guess that's about to appear ninety two thousand and she's
only in it for a second.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
I'm excited. I must say.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
If you I think you will. If you don't, you
have shamed your karaoke your self.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Yeah, oh no, handle that the pressure?
Speaker 5 (05:18):
All right?
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Are you ready to sorry?
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
All right, dry kings.
Speaker 6 (05:34):
The collision of illusion and reality.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Did not look at that bunch. It's shocking.
Speaker 7 (05:43):
Yeah, I know, hurry up and look before Juliani shuts
it down.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
From Juliani who probably about to be disbarred.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
This is strange washing it now.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
A time he was seen as normal, not great, but normal.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Also, this is I hadn't thought about this before or
but it's interesting in terms of their jobs. Yeah, where
you have a friend who's like, come to my art
gallery presentation, you've got your sex writer, you've got your
lawyer because I feel like a lot of my friends.
You're coming to my job. You're just watching me, like
talking to a computer. You know it's not a social outing.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Your social outing is D and D.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
We know that. Yes, yes, I.
Speaker 8 (06:31):
Feel we have dual powers within each of us. Men
could be very female and women could be very male.
Gender is an illusion, sometimes a very beautiful illusion.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Yeah. See, I don't think he's so far off on
this conversation.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Shoh, I do think so either.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Like I think if we talk instead of saying illusion
and saying it would be construct or spectrum, I feel
like that could be that level.
Speaker 6 (07:08):
Later, Miranda was shocked to find her apartment had undergone
a gender transformation of its own.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
Chinese.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
He put in a TV sports thought it it's a
male household now.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
With kind of a jersey kind of m.
Speaker 6 (07:35):
There was something about him. He was sexy, charming, sexy, coordinated.
Nothing about him or our third date was feeling typical.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
So care again, when was your last serious relationship until then?
Speaker 7 (07:50):
There it was inevitable third date question?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
M hm, bad question.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Want to take another spin around the deathwak No, it's
it's fine, It's fine.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I feel like, yeah, you're on date three. You need
to be able to talk about like what you're doing right, you.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Know, apparently we weren't.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Why two K compatible? Hy two K can what about you?
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I feel like, yes, you should, especially if you want
it to go anywhere.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
And before Leslie there was Mark.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Oh. The shock was that he had a relationship with
a guy named Mark.
Speaker 7 (08:27):
He's a bisexual.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
He's a bisexual, she says.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I'm a trisexual.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
I'll try anything.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
One correct, correct, just get all confused somewhere between gen
X and gen Yes.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
This is where I was saying.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Fair.
Speaker 7 (08:47):
You know, I did the date the bisexual guy thing
in college, but in the end they all ended up with.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Men, so did the bisexual women, which explains why there
are no available men left for us, which maybe just
where the beginning of the arguments happened, because I've still
heard that today about like all of them end up
dating men, like all of them, specifically saying this.
Speaker 7 (09:08):
I'm not even sure bisexuality exists. I think it's just
a layover on the way to gay town.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Isn't that right? Next to Ricky Martin? People think it's great. Yeah,
act's social experiences.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
He's evolved, Sam, just speaking of it's greedy, he's double dipping.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
You're not marrying the guy you're does he have just
better off the tope?
Speaker 6 (09:30):
You're right, you're right.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
I'm very into labels gay, straight.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Pick a side. Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
It is what it is.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I've got a date with my remote control.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Steve's playing basketball.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
That means at least three hours of blissfully uninterrupted alone time.
There's that moment of when you start living or being
in that relationship and you're like, I love you, but
I need about two days without you.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Just I'm gonna say two hours. I love how you
work for days. No, definitely, especially if your place is
a little smaller. Yeah, you don't have like a different Yeah, we.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Have different floors and we don't see each other, like
until he comes down.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
He's like, hey, pops in for food and it goes away.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
But then like he.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Works sometimes doing shows and he's gone all day, Like, yeah, yes,
I get it.
Speaker 8 (10:32):
I would love to have you pose for me.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Oh as a man.
Speaker 8 (10:40):
Yeah, you'd be great.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
What a pickup line.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I don't think I want you to dressed like a man,
you know for me.
Speaker 8 (10:50):
No, but you'd be surprised.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Charlotte every the model lining her.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Oh yes, not me.
Speaker 7 (11:00):
I'm really bad at math and I can't change a
tire to save my life.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
She can't change a tired and bad at math.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
She's a girl. I can't be a man.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
The Mulan song is playing loud, playing loud in my head.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
I guess better than guy she is.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
So this is those episodes where you are like, carry
is the worst? Why would anyone date her?
Speaker 1 (11:35):
I feel like that's something you say when you're like
twenty in crage, yeah, and you're drunk and you're just
like wanting any kind of validation, right, Not when you're thirty.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
And a sex column a sex columnist who's been through
a relationship that had you questioning whether you're good enough.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Like I guess maybe her trauma.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
But this is a different level of like, why do
you need this much validation?
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Why does this have to be about you?
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Especially because if he's he's into you, what does that matter?
Speaker 9 (12:10):
Right?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
If there was a man in the past, right.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
And why does that make you so insecure? It's kind
of weird that they do, like blame it on him
his youth essentially.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah, because like you said, it felt very dismissive when
he was like one of them happened to be a guy.
I'm not gay, yeah, because that sounds like, yeah, you
were in college and you tried something right right, which
can happen, but it is all so often used to
erase bisexual people.
Speaker 9 (12:39):
Exactly, Hey, what what's going on?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
You're on my side. I love how she's just sitting
up like she's just already annoying. To be fair, I've
had those moments of like I will push yeah, it's
pillow over and slowly push him over.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
I have to do that with Peaches.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Actually have to roll her over because she has gotten
me on so far off the bed that if I
move I fall off.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
So I have to physically roll her over.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
But even then I'm not sitting up going Hey, maybe.
Speaker 9 (13:19):
But.
Speaker 8 (13:22):
Maybe if you could spare a drawer or a box
or something, and I could keep my underwear out of
the way.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
You want a drawer, he wants a drawer.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
He wants a drawer to her apartment.
Speaker 9 (13:33):
Actually, actually I like to move in.
Speaker 6 (13:43):
Dream of this moment most single women, but Miranda.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Need my space.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
I feel like I'm being suffocated.
Speaker 7 (13:59):
She is Miranda. It's like you're the guy sometimes.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Oh, general reversal, is that the thing they're all kind
of showcasing typically masculine.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Perhaps or just like no, or the opposite of what
they typically are. Maybe not necessarily because no, Miranda's pretty
like masculine in her like stereotype. I guess it's the
stereotype of being like good job and having our own
house already and not needing to be wanting to be independent,
(14:37):
all those things, which is like attributed to men. You see,
my hips don't pop.
Speaker 6 (14:50):
I'm a guy.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
You're insane.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
This isn't helping me find my inner goddess. This is
making me find my inner humiliation and reached back. This
is also why I don't do class is where instructors
come and talk to you. I have like been in
the classes, like workout classes with people where they don't
talk to me until like they get to know me,
and I'm good with that and then we.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Like tease each other.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
But if you're pointing me out, tell me what I'm
doing wrong in the first class?
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Hell no, how dare you?
Speaker 3 (15:16):
I listened to class once.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
You weren't allowed to leave until you could do a
handstand like it was face on time.
Speaker 7 (15:23):
You know.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
So like whoever did the handstand longest would leave, and
then they would do it again. Whoever did the handstand
longest would leave. This was a class Yeah, and it
was horrible. Yeah, one time I got not the last five.
Speaker 6 (15:37):
I think in any relationship, one person's the alpha dog,
the one that's in charge.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
That's you.
Speaker 6 (15:42):
You don't want to share your water.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Dish, but I'm very free with the chew toys that
you are.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
So this is making Mariana question her femininity because she
doesn't want all these things.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
I've been there.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
That has a lot to do with my like growing
up in a religious home more so than society. But
I mean society doesn't help. But like I'm supposed to
be this feminine thing and I'm like, I don't. I
don't meet this criteria and maybe I'm doing this all wrong.
Speaker 5 (16:13):
And who the hell do you think you are? You're boss,
Samantha Jones pr Now, I don't know when she will. Yeah,
well she's been busy. Yeah, you have the attitude too.
On FYI, your party suck.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
The bad news is you're fired. The good news is
now I can figure you.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Samantha Discovity, no lawsuit whatsoever.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
Everything is just fuss.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Well that's my job today.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
But I got to the boss and I get to
do a lawsuit. Where can I find a lawyer?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
I'm just gonna make you dinner? And then this conference
call went over like two hours, and I went to
the market and the recipe comes for extra virgin olive
one and they only had virgin And how the hell
do I know the difference.
Speaker 6 (17:14):
In the jar?
Speaker 3 (17:14):
And I'm late, don't move it's glass.
Speaker 8 (17:22):
I can't.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
I can't do this.
Speaker 8 (17:25):
Of course you can't.
Speaker 5 (17:26):
We'll order pizza.
Speaker 9 (17:26):
It's no big deal.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
It's a deal.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
I just spelled marinary.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
This is why Steve is a good guy here, Like
he just it's easy going. I mean, yes, is he
kind of slop? Does he needs to get things together?
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Crawling on your shoulder? Jesus, I guess I really am
a woman.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
You get this moment of like you try to be
like forward, moving in, like understanding that gender roles is
a con all these things, and then you have scenes
like that were like I really am a woman because
I'm crying, and then there's an internalized misogyny. Hey, what
(18:14):
are you going?
Speaker 7 (18:17):
Just more cigarettes?
Speaker 6 (18:22):
That was the last night I saw Sean, I realized
they could do whatever they want.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
And then she ran. I was too, and you know
he was scarred by that.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, not scarred, but he was gonna he's gonna talk
about the woman and he was like, could not handle.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
She just left and never she went out for cigarettes
and never back. Wow.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Okay, this is one of the Again, as I said before,
this is one of those episodes that I'm like, oh, no, cringe.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Cringe, it's not good.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, this was one of the ones that I remember
when I originally watched it. I think it was around
the same time I was watching thirty Rock, because thirty
Rock had that episode and said something's very similar like
this just a layover to gaytown essentially, and thinking like, wow,
y'all really do not help this situation at all and
(19:36):
will not allow for like this level of conversation. And yeah,
I think this is definitely again one of those that
you're like, it did not age well. And unfortunately this
this viewpoint is still the same. We hear it still
in the generation of like they're just confused, they just
don't know.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
What they want.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
They are like being they're so young and immature and
trying these things out and instead of allowing for like no,
but if we really look at the bigger picture of
like being able to say, I guess it's kind of
like the whole pansexual type of conversation of like being
on a spectrum and falling in love with who you
fall in love with who you're falling in love with
(20:19):
that person and not necessarily of that gender. Wish if
his character, Shawn's character had said that instead of saying
I'm not gay, I think would have been a lot
more reasonable and it made sense like he wasn't ashamed
of it. But of course she kind of like pressured
him to such a point of him having to defend
(20:41):
his masculinity essentially.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
Somehow. So yeah, that was the.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
One that I was like, oh no, oh no, you
kind of got it. There was no culd oh think
they got to a club.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
He had hair.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Hair.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
They went to hair.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
They didn't get a brunch, but they I'm a liar,
they did go a bruh all right. You know, if
there was a score from one to ten, which I
switch it up every time, I'd give you a six.
I'll give you a six, okay, because also helped you here.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
I put you on a curve on that one.
Speaker 8 (21:14):
You did.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
You did help me because I also needed h.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
A warning with those uncomfortable ones. But yeah, that's the conversation.
I wonder for the newer generations and for you who
are a new viewer, what did you think about this episode?
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Well, it was a strange experience because it both felt
incredibly dated but also yes they still do that mm
hmm and things that we see. And it was also
interesting because you know, as a viewer, I assume you're
meant to relate to Carry and all the other characters,
(21:53):
but in this case Carrie, but it does feel like
yeah to me, and this is very personal. Not everybody
feels this way. But if you're gonna play a game
of flexpin the bottle, I would never be like, I'm
not gonna kiss a woman, even if I wasn't bisexual
or gay, Like if I was sitting down to play
(22:15):
it and the rules had been like established that I'd
be like okay, and I the fact that she just
left and was like.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
All right, fart and like, but I don't.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
And I would love like if anyone can write in
because I know people feel this way and I can
I can understand to an extent, but to me personally,
like the fact that someone would be bisexual would not
make me more insecure or jealous.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
I get that. That's then it's more people that I
have to be concerned about and heavy quotes, But it
wouldn't be like I'm suddenly more suspicious, right.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
And we have talked about that before, because there is
a popular media tope that bisexual people are just way
more sexual, which is not true, but there is that
understanding of, oh, if anyone looks their way, they'll sleep
with them in very heavy sarcasm. But that was just
kind of bizarre to me. I guess I didn't really
get it right.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I mean, it's definitely this like back and forth of
going her trying to be.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Cool with it, but not being cool with that.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
This is very like conservative take to being like they
can do what they want, it's not for me, but
then also being really judgmental and like being a part
of that. And again like from jump, I would not
be playing to spend the ball with strangers, not whatever
it's sexuality strangers. Boy Blake, I'm like, nah, I'm good,
I'm good. Y'all have fun with this. But you know,
(23:55):
if he made her do it that's very uncomfortable and
that's definitely on him. Yes, it is also portraying that
people who are open about their sexuality are promiscuous and sharing.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Like it definitely leaned into this whole.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Narrative that is really stereotypical and harmful for the gay
community point blank. But it's also very much like us
versus them mentality, and it also is a generational us
versus them mentality as well.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
There's so many things on.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
This sweet level of like you just really wanted to
play every insecurity that you had getting into your thirties
being single, like it just as I get it because
I was definitely single in my thirties, but the insecurities
were not that real for me. I don't know, I
think for those of people, and maybe this is a
whole different generation where in the two thousands they didn't outright.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Speak up about their sexuality.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Majority of the people that I hang out with, I
know there's sexual orientation, so there's no confusion in know
like it's not a thing, and that doesn't base anything.
I'm also the very much that same type of person
and who were like who was like, you know, I
don't go in thinking either we're dating because we met
to date, right and at the beginning, and maybe this
(25:10):
is the online dating thing, you know everything, right, So
like that kind of changes it up where you're not
necessarily surprised unless they lie, you know, and that happens too,
And if they even find out they're lying, you're out.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
You know, I'm like, I'm out.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
So maybe that's a different type of like beginning, I
have a relationship that they are talking about where it's
not online dating. I'm trying to remember. I don't think
they have any episodes about online dating other than your
old school like.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
In a newspaper, right or chat room right.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
And I mean, I guess the thing is, like I've
actually been seeing a lot of conversations about this recently
since we have Happy Pride. Yeah, oh yeah, I have
been seeing a lot of conversations about this recently, and
it made me stop and think, because I feel like
(26:08):
Sean in this case, he was very open about you know.
Maybe the like I'm not gay was confusing in this context,
but he was open about, you know, And there's been
conversations about people who didn't know exactly how they identified
(26:32):
until they got older, until they did try things or
they felt repressed in one way, and then it wasn't
until they went to college.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
But feeling.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Like maybe Sean feels bad for Carrie, you know what
I mean, Like I wish I had known then that
that's what I was and I was dating you and
I didn't realize that wasn't what I wanted And that
can be, like now a great feeling. And so I've
just seen some really interesting conversations happening about that lately.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Again, he was very he was like point like this
is me.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
Yeah, I think that's the other point of that. It's
like her.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Not discussed but like discontent in him being that open
and free about it really bothered her, really bothered her.
She's like like, he's from Colorado like that, I'm like, well,
how do you wanted to say it? Like dejected in
a quiet voice and shame to do? What do you
want him to do? Hide it from you because you'd
be more upset. Right when you meet the friends and
(27:35):
they're like, yeah, I used to say him exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
And we've run into this in several episodes recently. She
is a sex columnist, right, like she I feel like
she should if she's not.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Comfortable with it.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Okay, yes, but I guess that's the flip coin of
what I'm talking about. But then you remove yourself from
I'm sorry, I'm not comfortable with it.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Maybe I'm gonna have to think about what that says.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
But that's right, And her level of disgust and like
distrust in him was so high. So we've talked about
this before with like people in relationships with trans people
or people who are bisexual and feeling like they're in
danger if they tell them yes, like or they'll be
shamed very quickly if they tell them the truth, so
they do hide it, and then it becomes a bigger thing,
(28:22):
like all these things, and like they can't openly date,
freely date and trust the person they're dating, even though
they really think they can they would like to, but
then it ends up.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
Back like these.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
This is that kind of like that ground of like
this is a really dangerous scope and you're using this
as a comedy, you're using this as a plot line.
I believe the writer of this episode is a gay man.
Darren Starr is attributed as the writer who is a gay,
openly gay man, as well as Jenny Bricks and then
(28:51):
of course Candace Bushnell, who is the writer of the book,
author of the book, but like it.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
It feels like he might. I don't know if he
did that on purpose.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I don't know if he realized it, or if it
was just a scope of the early two thousands and
the way we saw bisexuality at that point in time.
Because at the very least like and just like that,
at least when they decided to do non binary folks,
they did treat them all with a little more respect,
not complete the respect that they deserved again because they
actually portrayed that character. Also, as I think chas as
(29:27):
over sex, willing to have sex with anybody, didn't care
who that their relationships are not type of thing.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
That's a whole different conversation. I will say I.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Didn't I haven't watched the newest season. But all of
that to say is like, Okay, I don't know if
you mean to do this, I don't know this is
an underlying thought process for you, or if you really
thought this was like an open conversation, so whatever, whatnot.
But it's not a great look. Maybe we're just looking
at it in a way that makes me defensive, maybe
(29:54):
because I do have friends who are bisexual men who
are like trying just to live their life. I have, like,
you know, like I have come to the point as
being I guess an elder millennial slash gen X, like
I'm on that line as a Zilli and neal, I guess,
And I like, this is part of my conversation in
college and then trying to figure that out. And I
(30:15):
didn't meet people who were bisexual. I met people who
were gay, or they weren't openly or having that conversation
of being that because I don't think they felt that
they could. If they were, they were typically women definitely
not men, which to me was an interesting conversation in
that self like.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
They're just going through.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
A period quote unquote, you know, and and it's just
the d like it's just kind of like the Katy
Perry song like I Kiss the Girl. It became a
fetishized idea of what it was, and that was a
college thing as well, so I feel like that was
just part of this. This seems like a feats into
that narrative and it feels very very like dangerous on
the scope of where we are today obviously with queer
(30:58):
laws were this is twenty four years later, we're watching
this twenty four years later, so the fact that this
narrative is still being spread is the concern, honestly.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Yeah, And I think you brought up several points that
we should maybe come back and talk about later, which is,
you know, not feeling safe sharing your gender identity, so
there can be reasons to hide. And I also think
I had this conversation with my mom this weekend. My goodness,
(31:32):
if this was a different show, I would go into
the drama that is happening at her church. But one
of the things revolves around a lot of LGBTQ plus stuff,
which is happening in a lot of churches. And we've
talked about that in our religious series miniseries that we did.
But one thing she said at one point was like
(31:53):
and it was a gay guy that said that, And
I was like, just because a gay guy said that,
we're not for still people who have biases and can
make mistakes and can be wrong. We've talked before about
within the queer community there is unfortunately a lot of
there can be a lot of judgment and criticism, and
(32:20):
that's sort of been the history with bisexuality, with transgender
and having people judge that within the queer community. So
you know, I think our audience doesn't need the reminder,
but if anyone does, just just because someone's queer and
they make a queer thing doesn't mean.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Right without something we shouldn't look at and be like okay, wait, right, yes, right, yes, I.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Just crossed upon an Asian man from Georgia that does
a Republican conservative talk shows the way.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Mm hmmm. I mean it's thank you for like any community, right.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
I always say that about feminism is like it's not
a monolith, right, And this is interesting to me because
this was happening during like the third wave right, and
I feel like a lot of that in the third
wave was a very addressing gender stuff but still being
pretty gendered and.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Doing right right as we saw as we saw like
literally Miranda's whole thing was I'm not girly enough.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
Well I guess I am girling because I like it.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Just like it went into it like being like okay,
you can be this and like still be a woman.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
That's great, and then she goes, no, now really, I'm
looking at me cry and I'm like, oh, well you
broke that, so never mind.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yeah, it was an interesting time where they were like,
let's be feminine, but not the bad weak parts. But
doing so, it's saying that being feminine is still worse, right, right, Sarah,
things to criticize about how we do that media whereas
women always crying, but women do cry is like a
(34:07):
complicated mess.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
The level, but like, it's interesting to see it written,
and again this is two thousands. Two thousands were a
lot of great things. It opened up a lot of
like conversations. But then like again, you know that it's
not too much from today, too much different from today,
which is probably why we're more frustrated. And I'm more
concerned than anything else, Like this is almost the same,
(34:32):
and this is a bad but this was part of
the foundation that why we can't break it.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Yeah, unfortunately, but all right, well.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
We have to get through these dated episodes to get
the whole of tex and the city. But we're always
going to have an honest conversation about it. Let us
know what you think, and again we are trying to
pick a better episode where it's not so thick with
this type of down conversation. I guess for you a
(35:01):
listener to join us very very soon if you are interested.
We're gonna have a random drawing as we did last time,
for you to join in and watch an episode with
us and talk about it with us. You don't have
to be a Sex and the City expert, no need
to preview beforehand. Just come and enjoy and have a
conversation with us.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Yeah, and our super producer Christina is amazing.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
She walks you through the whole process.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
If you've got like an Internet connection and a computer
or something to record on, you're good.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
So yeah. And for the people who.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Entered last time and didn't get it, if you would
like to re enter, please do. But if you're like, na,
I'm good, that's all right. But yes, if you would
like to re enter, please do. If you'd like to
enter the first time, please do. You can email us
at steffmediamom stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find
us on Twitter at most of a podcast, or on
Instagram and TikTok at stuff. We've never told you. We
(35:59):
have a YouTube, a tea public store, and a book
you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as
always too, our super producer Christina or executive producer.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Maya and your contributor Joey.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Thank you and Thanks to you for listening stuff Never
told you the production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts
from my heart Radio, you can check out the heart
Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows,
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. Welcome to stuff I
Never told you a prediction by Heart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And welcome to another happy hour edition of rewatching for me,
first time watching for any of Sex and the City.
And yes we are in season three, episode four. If
you are drinking or doing whatever, do so responsibly. This
is an adult show. I think it is rated TVMA.
(00:42):
So if you're new to this and you're like, oh,
I'll jump in, just know probably don't want to listen
around children. Because we are not watching the edited version.
So this is not from the CW. The CW still exists,
it does, Okay, Bravo. I think it's on Bravo if
we are watching if you have Netflix not a sponsor
(01:04):
that version because that's unedited, right, is un edited?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
It is, but we're not watching it on I'm not watching.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Oh yeah, I'm just thinking like the access many people
are more likely to access it through Netflix than than Max.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I mean we've mentioned that recently, but that has been
an interesting thing that has come out of Sex and
the City being.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Available on Netflix. Yes, now a lot.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Of younger people are seeing it for the first time
and having some thoughts.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yes, And speaking of which, So this episode is one
of those episodes that I have been warning Annie about
because this season is a roller coaster of a season.
I think it's fairly offensive. It has not aged well,
I will guarantee, because I feel like it's been a minute.
So I've seen this episode, but I remember watching it
then going oh, eh no. And it's kind of one
(01:55):
of those things where we are going to I'm going
to spoiler alert talk about bisexuality, and in it, like
there's some very dated references to bisexuality, and we already
know the level of discrimination that happens from both the
queer and the heterosexual community when it comes to bisexuality,
(02:16):
and it kind of perpetuates that. So go ahead and
put that at the top. They try to make funny jokes.
It doesn't land, but there are other parts to it
that is interesting at the very least. So with all
of that, we're going to do our tradition. Now I've
given you a big hint, Amy, so you know, you know,
(02:38):
first and foremost, can you recap for us what has
been happening on season three?
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
So this season, I feel like we've started with most
of the team and turmoil again. I feel like Samantle's
always doing her own thing. But Carrie broke up with
Bigs and then saw wedding advertisements. I said big because
that's Star Wars. I'm so sorry, mister big size for him.
(03:09):
And you always say bridget Natasha, Yes, and then they've
run into each other. So there's been some like drama
and hurt around that. Charlotte is once again trying to
find a husband, very determined, was talking about finding a
political husband or all kinds of things.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
She's looking.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Miranda is trying to be independent but still has Steve
in her life and is trying to find out what
she wants with him and with her life and what
that means for her independence. And yeah, Samantha's just living
the best the best time.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Samantha is Samantha ing yes as we like to say it. Okay,
So for this title, it is boy girl, boy girl.
Do you have a clue about what this could be?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
You have a clue, I have a clue. I have
a clue.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
If it's if you feel, based on what you said
that it's like bisexuality or rasure, then I would say
it has something.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
To do with either you like boys or you like girls.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
You don't like either, but where would this come up
at the club at brunch?
Speaker 4 (04:38):
In the club or the brunch.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Because I feel like that I'm not I'm not giving
any specifics, but I guess that's why there's going to
be talk about it's this or that.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Okay, I get okay, Oh I forgot.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
There is a nineties icon that's two thousand's icon of
guess that's about to appear ninety two thousand and she's
only in it for a second.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
I'm excited. I must say.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
If you I think you will. If you don't, you
have shamed your karaoke your self.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Yeah, oh no, handle that the pressure?
Speaker 5 (05:18):
All right?
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Are you ready to sorry?
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
All right, dry kings.
Speaker 6 (05:34):
The collision of illusion and reality.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Did not look at that bunch. It's shocking.
Speaker 7 (05:43):
Yeah, I know, hurry up and look before Juliani shuts
it down.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
From Juliani who probably about to be disbarred.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
This is strange washing it now.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
A time he was seen as normal, not great, but normal.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Also, this is I hadn't thought about this before or
but it's interesting in terms of their jobs. Yeah, where
you have a friend who's like, come to my art
gallery presentation, you've got your sex writer, you've got your
lawyer because I feel like a lot of my friends.
You're coming to my job. You're just watching me, like
talking to a computer. You know it's not a social outing.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Your social outing is D and D.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
We know that. Yes, yes, I.
Speaker 8 (06:31):
Feel we have dual powers within each of us. Men
could be very female and women could be very male.
Gender is an illusion, sometimes a very beautiful illusion.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Yeah. See, I don't think he's so far off on
this conversation.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Shoh, I do think so either.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Like I think if we talk instead of saying illusion
and saying it would be construct or spectrum, I feel
like that could be that level.
Speaker 6 (07:08):
Later, Miranda was shocked to find her apartment had undergone
a gender transformation of its own.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
Chinese.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
He put in a TV sports thought it it's a
male household now.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
With kind of a jersey kind of m.
Speaker 6 (07:35):
There was something about him. He was sexy, charming, sexy, coordinated.
Nothing about him or our third date was feeling typical.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
So care again, when was your last serious relationship until then?
Speaker 7 (07:50):
There it was inevitable third date question?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
M hm, bad question.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Want to take another spin around the deathwak No, it's
it's fine, It's fine.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I feel like, yeah, you're on date three. You need
to be able to talk about like what you're doing right, you.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Know, apparently we weren't.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
Why two K compatible? Hy two K can what about you?
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I feel like, yes, you should, especially if you want
it to go anywhere.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
And before Leslie there was Mark.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Oh. The shock was that he had a relationship with
a guy named Mark.
Speaker 7 (08:27):
He's a bisexual.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
He's a bisexual, she says.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I'm a trisexual.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
I'll try anything.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
One correct, correct, just get all confused somewhere between gen
X and gen Yes.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
This is where I was saying.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Fair.
Speaker 7 (08:47):
You know, I did the date the bisexual guy thing
in college, but in the end they all ended up with.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Men, so did the bisexual women, which explains why there
are no available men left for us, which maybe just
where the beginning of the arguments happened, because I've still
heard that today about like all of them end up
dating men, like all of them, specifically saying this.
Speaker 7 (09:08):
I'm not even sure bisexuality exists. I think it's just
a layover on the way to gay town.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Isn't that right? Next to Ricky Martin? People think it's great. Yeah,
act's social experiences.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
He's evolved, Sam, just speaking of it's greedy, he's double dipping.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
You're not marrying the guy you're does he have just
better off the tope?
Speaker 6 (09:30):
You're right, you're right.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
I'm very into labels gay, straight.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Pick a side. Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
It is what it is.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I've got a date with my remote control.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Steve's playing basketball.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
That means at least three hours of blissfully uninterrupted alone time.
There's that moment of when you start living or being
in that relationship and you're like, I love you, but
I need about two days without you.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Just I'm gonna say two hours. I love how you
work for days. No, definitely, especially if your place is
a little smaller. Yeah, you don't have like a different Yeah, we.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Have different floors and we don't see each other, like
until he comes down.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
He's like, hey, pops in for food and it goes away.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
But then like he.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Works sometimes doing shows and he's gone all day, Like, yeah, yes,
I get it.
Speaker 8 (10:32):
I would love to have you pose for me.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Oh as a man.
Speaker 8 (10:40):
Yeah, you'd be great.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
What a pickup line.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I don't think I want you to dressed like a man,
you know for me.
Speaker 8 (10:50):
No, but you'd be surprised.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Charlotte every the model lining her.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Oh yes, not me.
Speaker 7 (11:00):
I'm really bad at math and I can't change a
tire to save my life.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
She can't change a tired and bad at math.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
She's a girl. I can't be a man.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
The Mulan song is playing loud, playing loud in my head.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
I guess better than guy she is.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
So this is those episodes where you are like, carry
is the worst? Why would anyone date her?
Speaker 1 (11:35):
I feel like that's something you say when you're like
twenty in crage, yeah, and you're drunk and you're just
like wanting any kind of validation, right, Not when you're thirty.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
And a sex column a sex columnist who's been through
a relationship that had you questioning whether you're good enough.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Like I guess maybe her trauma.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
But this is a different level of like, why do
you need this much validation?
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Why does this have to be about you?
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Especially because if he's he's into you, what does that matter?
Speaker 9 (12:10):
Right?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
If there was a man in the past, right.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
And why does that make you so insecure? It's kind
of weird that they do, like blame it on him
his youth essentially.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah, because like you said, it felt very dismissive when
he was like one of them happened to be a guy.
I'm not gay, yeah, because that sounds like, yeah, you
were in college and you tried something right right, which
can happen, but it is all so often used to
erase bisexual people.
Speaker 9 (12:39):
Exactly, Hey, what what's going on?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
You're on my side. I love how she's just sitting
up like she's just already annoying. To be fair, I've
had those moments of like I will push yeah, it's
pillow over and slowly push him over.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
I have to do that with Peaches.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Actually have to roll her over because she has gotten
me on so far off the bed that if I
move I fall off.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
So I have to physically roll her over.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
But even then I'm not sitting up going Hey, maybe.
Speaker 9 (13:19):
But.
Speaker 8 (13:22):
Maybe if you could spare a drawer or a box
or something, and I could keep my underwear out of
the way.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
You want a drawer, he wants a drawer.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
He wants a drawer to her apartment.
Speaker 9 (13:33):
Actually, actually I like to move in.
Speaker 6 (13:43):
Dream of this moment most single women, but Miranda.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Need my space.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
I feel like I'm being suffocated.
Speaker 7 (13:59):
She is Miranda. It's like you're the guy sometimes.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Oh, general reversal, is that the thing they're all kind
of showcasing typically masculine.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Perhaps or just like no, or the opposite of what
they typically are. Maybe not necessarily because no, Miranda's pretty
like masculine in her like stereotype. I guess it's the
stereotype of being like good job and having our own
house already and not needing to be wanting to be independent,
(14:37):
all those things, which is like attributed to men. You see,
my hips don't pop.
Speaker 6 (14:50):
I'm a guy.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
You're insane.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
This isn't helping me find my inner goddess. This is
making me find my inner humiliation and reached back. This
is also why I don't do class is where instructors
come and talk to you. I have like been in
the classes, like workout classes with people where they don't
talk to me until like they get to know me,
and I'm good with that and then we.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Like tease each other.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
But if you're pointing me out, tell me what I'm
doing wrong in the first class?
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Hell no, how dare you?
Speaker 3 (15:16):
I listened to class once.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
You weren't allowed to leave until you could do a
handstand like it was face on time.
Speaker 7 (15:23):
You know.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
So like whoever did the handstand longest would leave, and
then they would do it again. Whoever did the handstand
longest would leave. This was a class Yeah, and it
was horrible. Yeah, one time I got not the last five.
Speaker 6 (15:37):
I think in any relationship, one person's the alpha dog,
the one that's in charge.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
That's you.
Speaker 6 (15:42):
You don't want to share your water.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Dish, but I'm very free with the chew toys that
you are.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
So this is making Mariana question her femininity because she
doesn't want all these things.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
I've been there.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
That has a lot to do with my like growing
up in a religious home more so than society. But
I mean society doesn't help. But like I'm supposed to
be this feminine thing and I'm like, I don't. I
don't meet this criteria and maybe I'm doing this all wrong.
Speaker 5 (16:13):
And who the hell do you think you are? You're boss,
Samantha Jones pr Now, I don't know when she will. Yeah,
well she's been busy. Yeah, you have the attitude too.
On FYI, your party suck.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
The bad news is you're fired. The good news is
now I can figure you.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Samantha Discovity, no lawsuit whatsoever.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
Everything is just fuss.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Well that's my job today.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
But I got to the boss and I get to
do a lawsuit. Where can I find a lawyer?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
I'm just gonna make you dinner? And then this conference
call went over like two hours, and I went to
the market and the recipe comes for extra virgin olive
one and they only had virgin And how the hell
do I know the difference.
Speaker 6 (17:14):
In the jar?
Speaker 3 (17:14):
And I'm late, don't move it's glass.
Speaker 8 (17:22):
I can't.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
I can't do this.
Speaker 8 (17:25):
Of course you can't.
Speaker 5 (17:26):
We'll order pizza.
Speaker 9 (17:26):
It's no big deal.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
It's a deal.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
I just spelled marinary.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
This is why Steve is a good guy here, Like
he just it's easy going. I mean, yes, is he
kind of slop? Does he needs to get things together?
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Crawling on your shoulder? Jesus, I guess I really am
a woman.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
You get this moment of like you try to be
like forward, moving in, like understanding that gender roles is
a con all these things, and then you have scenes
like that were like I really am a woman because
I'm crying, and then there's an internalized misogyny. Hey, what
(18:14):
are you going?
Speaker 7 (18:17):
Just more cigarettes?
Speaker 6 (18:22):
That was the last night I saw Sean, I realized
they could do whatever they want.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
And then she ran. I was too, and you know
he was scarred by that.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, not scarred, but he was gonna he's gonna talk
about the woman and he was like, could not handle.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
She just left and never she went out for cigarettes
and never back. Wow.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Okay, this is one of the Again, as I said before,
this is one of those episodes that I'm like, oh, no, cringe.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Cringe, it's not good.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, this was one of the ones that I remember
when I originally watched it. I think it was around
the same time I was watching thirty Rock, because thirty
Rock had that episode and said something's very similar like
this just a layover to gaytown essentially, and thinking like, wow,
y'all really do not help this situation at all and
(19:36):
will not allow for like this level of conversation. And yeah,
I think this is definitely again one of those that
you're like, it did not age well. And unfortunately this
this viewpoint is still the same. We hear it still
in the generation of like they're just confused, they just
don't know.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
What they want.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
They are like being they're so young and immature and
trying these things out and instead of allowing for like no,
but if we really look at the bigger picture of
like being able to say, I guess it's kind of
like the whole pansexual type of conversation of like being
on a spectrum and falling in love with who you
fall in love with who you're falling in love with
(20:19):
that person and not necessarily of that gender. Wish if
his character, Shawn's character had said that instead of saying
I'm not gay, I think would have been a lot
more reasonable and it made sense like he wasn't ashamed
of it. But of course she kind of like pressured
him to such a point of him having to defend
(20:41):
his masculinity essentially.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
Somehow. So yeah, that was the.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
One that I was like, oh no, oh no, you
kind of got it. There was no culd oh think
they got to a club.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
He had hair.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Hair.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
They went to hair.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
They didn't get a brunch, but they I'm a liar,
they did go a bruh all right. You know, if
there was a score from one to ten, which I
switch it up every time, I'd give you a six.
I'll give you a six, okay, because also helped you here.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
I put you on a curve on that one.
Speaker 8 (21:14):
You did.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
You did help me because I also needed h.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
A warning with those uncomfortable ones. But yeah, that's the conversation.
I wonder for the newer generations and for you who
are a new viewer, what did you think about this episode?
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Well, it was a strange experience because it both felt
incredibly dated but also yes they still do that mm
hmm and things that we see. And it was also
interesting because you know, as a viewer, I assume you're
meant to relate to Carry and all the other characters,
(21:53):
but in this case Carrie, but it does feel like
yeah to me, and this is very personal. Not everybody
feels this way. But if you're gonna play a game
of flexpin the bottle, I would never be like, I'm
not gonna kiss a woman, even if I wasn't bisexual
or gay, Like if I was sitting down to play
(22:15):
it and the rules had been like established that I'd
be like okay, and I the fact that she just
left and was like.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
All right, fart and like, but I don't.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
And I would love like if anyone can write in
because I know people feel this way and I can
I can understand to an extent, but to me personally,
like the fact that someone would be bisexual would not
make me more insecure or jealous.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
I get that. That's then it's more people that I
have to be concerned about and heavy quotes, But it
wouldn't be like I'm suddenly more suspicious, right.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
And we have talked about that before, because there is
a popular media tope that bisexual people are just way
more sexual, which is not true, but there is that
understanding of, oh, if anyone looks their way, they'll sleep
with them in very heavy sarcasm. But that was just
kind of bizarre to me. I guess I didn't really
get it right.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I mean, it's definitely this like back and forth of
going her trying to be.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Cool with it, but not being cool with that.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
This is very like conservative take to being like they
can do what they want, it's not for me, but
then also being really judgmental and like being a part
of that. And again like from jump, I would not
be playing to spend the ball with strangers, not whatever
it's sexuality strangers. Boy Blake, I'm like, nah, I'm good,
I'm good. Y'all have fun with this. But you know,
(23:55):
if he made her do it that's very uncomfortable and
that's definitely on him. Yes, it is also portraying that
people who are open about their sexuality are promiscuous and sharing.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Like it definitely leaned into this whole.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Narrative that is really stereotypical and harmful for the gay
community point blank. But it's also very much like us
versus them mentality, and it also is a generational us
versus them mentality as well.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
There's so many things on.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
This sweet level of like you just really wanted to
play every insecurity that you had getting into your thirties
being single, like it just as I get it because
I was definitely single in my thirties, but the insecurities
were not that real for me. I don't know, I
think for those of people, and maybe this is a
whole different generation where in the two thousands they didn't outright.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Speak up about their sexuality.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Majority of the people that I hang out with, I
know there's sexual orientation, so there's no confusion in know
like it's not a thing, and that doesn't base anything.
I'm also the very much that same type of person
and who were like who was like, you know, I
don't go in thinking either we're dating because we met
to date, right and at the beginning, and maybe this
(25:10):
is the online dating thing, you know everything, right, So
like that kind of changes it up where you're not
necessarily surprised unless they lie, you know, and that happens too,
And if they even find out they're lying, you're out.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
You know, I'm like, I'm out.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
So maybe that's a different type of like beginning, I
have a relationship that they are talking about where it's
not online dating. I'm trying to remember. I don't think
they have any episodes about online dating other than your
old school like.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
In a newspaper, right or chat room right.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
And I mean, I guess the thing is, like I've
actually been seeing a lot of conversations about this recently
since we have Happy Pride. Yeah, oh yeah, I have
been seeing a lot of conversations about this recently, and
it made me stop and think, because I feel like
(26:08):
Sean in this case, he was very open about you know.
Maybe the like I'm not gay was confusing in this context,
but he was open about, you know, And there's been
conversations about people who didn't know exactly how they identified
(26:32):
until they got older, until they did try things or
they felt repressed in one way, and then it wasn't
until they went to college.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
But feeling.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Like maybe Sean feels bad for Carrie, you know what
I mean, Like I wish I had known then that
that's what I was and I was dating you and
I didn't realize that wasn't what I wanted And that
can be, like now a great feeling. And so I've
just seen some really interesting conversations happening about that lately.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Again, he was very he was like point like this
is me.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
Yeah, I think that's the other point of that. It's
like her.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Not discussed but like discontent in him being that open
and free about it really bothered her, really bothered her.
She's like like, he's from Colorado like that, I'm like, well,
how do you wanted to say it? Like dejected in
a quiet voice and shame to do? What do you
want him to do? Hide it from you because you'd
be more upset. Right when you meet the friends and
(27:35):
they're like, yeah, I used to say him exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
And we've run into this in several episodes recently. She
is a sex columnist, right, like she I feel like
she should if she's not.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Comfortable with it.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Okay, yes, but I guess that's the flip coin of
what I'm talking about. But then you remove yourself from
I'm sorry, I'm not comfortable with it.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Maybe I'm gonna have to think about what that says.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
But that's right, And her level of disgust and like
distrust in him was so high. So we've talked about
this before with like people in relationships with trans people
or people who are bisexual and feeling like they're in
danger if they tell them yes, like or they'll be
shamed very quickly if they tell them the truth, so
they do hide it, and then it becomes a bigger thing,
(28:22):
like all these things, and like they can't openly date,
freely date and trust the person they're dating, even though
they really think they can they would like to, but
then it ends up.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
Back like these.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
This is that kind of like that ground of like
this is a really dangerous scope and you're using this
as a comedy, you're using this as a plot line.
I believe the writer of this episode is a gay man.
Darren Starr is attributed as the writer who is a gay,
openly gay man, as well as Jenny Bricks and then
(28:51):
of course Candace Bushnell, who is the writer of the book,
author of the book, but like it.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
It feels like he might. I don't know if he
did that on purpose.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I don't know if he realized it, or if it
was just a scope of the early two thousands and
the way we saw bisexuality at that point in time.
Because at the very least like and just like that,
at least when they decided to do non binary folks,
they did treat them all with a little more respect,
not complete the respect that they deserved again because they
actually portrayed that character. Also, as I think chas as
(29:27):
over sex, willing to have sex with anybody, didn't care
who that their relationships are not type of thing.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
That's a whole different conversation. I will say I.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Didn't I haven't watched the newest season. But all of
that to say is like, Okay, I don't know if
you mean to do this, I don't know this is
an underlying thought process for you, or if you really
thought this was like an open conversation, so whatever, whatnot.
But it's not a great look. Maybe we're just looking
at it in a way that makes me defensive, maybe
(29:54):
because I do have friends who are bisexual men who
are like trying just to live their life. I have, like,
you know, like I have come to the point as
being I guess an elder millennial slash gen X, like
I'm on that line as a Zilli and neal, I guess,
And I like, this is part of my conversation in
college and then trying to figure that out. And I
(30:15):
didn't meet people who were bisexual. I met people who
were gay, or they weren't openly or having that conversation
of being that because I don't think they felt that
they could. If they were, they were typically women definitely
not men, which to me was an interesting conversation in
that self like.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
They're just going through.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
A period quote unquote, you know, and and it's just
the d like it's just kind of like the Katy
Perry song like I Kiss the Girl. It became a
fetishized idea of what it was, and that was a
college thing as well, so I feel like that was
just part of this. This seems like a feats into
that narrative and it feels very very like dangerous on
the scope of where we are today obviously with queer
(30:58):
laws were this is twenty four years later, we're watching
this twenty four years later, so the fact that this
narrative is still being spread is the concern, honestly.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Yeah, And I think you brought up several points that
we should maybe come back and talk about later, which is,
you know, not feeling safe sharing your gender identity, so
there can be reasons to hide. And I also think
I had this conversation with my mom this weekend. My goodness,
(31:32):
if this was a different show, I would go into
the drama that is happening at her church. But one
of the things revolves around a lot of LGBTQ plus stuff,
which is happening in a lot of churches. And we've
talked about that in our religious series miniseries that we did.
But one thing she said at one point was like
(31:53):
and it was a gay guy that said that, And
I was like, just because a gay guy said that,
we're not for still people who have biases and can
make mistakes and can be wrong. We've talked before about
within the queer community there is unfortunately a lot of
there can be a lot of judgment and criticism, and
(32:20):
that's sort of been the history with bisexuality, with transgender
and having people judge that within the queer community. So
you know, I think our audience doesn't need the reminder,
but if anyone does, just just because someone's queer and
they make a queer thing doesn't mean.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Right without something we shouldn't look at and be like okay, wait, right, yes, right, yes, I.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Just crossed upon an Asian man from Georgia that does
a Republican conservative talk shows the way.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
Mm hmmm. I mean it's thank you for like any community, right.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
I always say that about feminism is like it's not
a monolith, right, And this is interesting to me because
this was happening during like the third wave right, and
I feel like a lot of that in the third
wave was a very addressing gender stuff but still being
pretty gendered and.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Doing right right as we saw as we saw like
literally Miranda's whole thing was I'm not girly enough.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
Well I guess I am girling because I like it.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Just like it went into it like being like okay,
you can be this and like still be a woman.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
That's great, and then she goes, no, now really, I'm
looking at me cry and I'm like, oh, well you
broke that, so never mind.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yeah, it was an interesting time where they were like,
let's be feminine, but not the bad weak parts. But
doing so, it's saying that being feminine is still worse, right, right, Sarah,
things to criticize about how we do that media whereas
women always crying, but women do cry is like a
(34:07):
complicated mess.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
The level, but like, it's interesting to see it written,
and again this is two thousands. Two thousands were a
lot of great things. It opened up a lot of
like conversations. But then like again, you know that it's
not too much from today, too much different from today,
which is probably why we're more frustrated. And I'm more
concerned than anything else, Like this is almost the same,
(34:32):
and this is a bad but this was part of
the foundation that why we can't break it.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
Yeah, unfortunately, but all right, well.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
We have to get through these dated episodes to get
the whole of tex and the city. But we're always
going to have an honest conversation about it. Let us
know what you think, and again we are trying to
pick a better episode where it's not so thick with
this type of down conversation. I guess for you a
(35:01):
listener to join us very very soon if you are interested.
We're gonna have a random drawing as we did last time,
for you to join in and watch an episode with
us and talk about it with us. You don't have
to be a Sex and the City expert, no need
to preview beforehand. Just come and enjoy and have a
conversation with us.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Yeah, and our super producer Christina is amazing.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
She walks you through the whole process.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
If you've got like an Internet connection and a computer
or something to record on, you're good.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
So yeah. And for the people who.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Entered last time and didn't get it, if you would
like to re enter, please do. But if you're like, na,
I'm good, that's all right. But yes, if you would
like to re enter, please do. If you'd like to
enter the first time, please do. You can email us
at steffmediamom stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find
us on Twitter at most of a podcast, or on
Instagram and TikTok at stuff. We've never told you. We
(35:59):
have a YouTube, a tea public store, and a book
you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as
always too, our super producer Christina or executive producer.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Maya and your contributor Joey.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Thank you and Thanks to you for listening stuff Never
told you the production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts
from my heart Radio, you can check out the heart
Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows,
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