July 10, 2024 • 34 mins
In the US, there is something often called a 'marriage penalty' for people with disabilities. We dig into the very complicated and often heartbreaking details of what this is, and why the system was designed this way.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha among my stuff. Never
told you a prediction of iHeartRadio. And today we are
doing a listener suggestion from Jude and we'll be reading
(00:25):
Jude's message in a second about marriage and disability because
it is Disability Pride Month and this is something I
think a lot of people don't know about. You can
see our recent episode on women in disability, past episodes
on the ADA, the past episode we did with Invisible
Disability with Eves. We've done a lot of stuff around this,
(00:46):
but those are a few that came to my mind.
Also a note about terminology. I know I said this recently.
There's not agreement currently on the quote correct way say
people with disabilities or disabled people. So just a note
about that. A lot of people use them interchangeably. Some
(01:06):
people have really strong opinions and they have great reasoning
behind those opinions. We're probably going to use them based
on what the articles we use and also the people
are using in context of what we're talking about. So
just a note. Also a note we are not legal experts. No,
(01:28):
we have never interacted with these services, and they're kind
of complicated and I would argue purposely, so which we're
going to talk about, but note about that, and just
a reminder, the disabled community is the largest marginalized community
in the world and a majority of us will experience
a temporary disability at one point. All right, So just
(01:53):
to reiterate from our recent Monday many on women in
disability from the CDC quote, about thirty six million women
in the US have disabilities and the numbers growing. About
forty four percent of those aged sixty five years are
older are living with the disability. The most common cause
of disability for women is arthritis, are rheumatism and from now.
(02:13):
Women with disabilities are particularly disadvantaged when it comes to
wage equality. In twenty twenty two, women who are disabled
made seventy two cents for every dollar paid to a
man who is disabled. Compared to the non disabled community,
women with disabilities made sixty eight cents to every dollar
earned by able bodied men. If an individual from this
community is seeking employment, the current hiring rate of women
(02:36):
with disabilities between the ages of sixteen to sixty four
stands at thirty seven percent. Throughout the employment process, women
can face challenges ranging from organizational readiness and inclusivity to
accessible employment processes. And workplace inclusivity provisions, and of course
people of color and black people specifically are disproportionately impacted
(02:56):
by all of this as well. Okay, so let us
get on to this listener mail, so Jude wrote, I
apologize if this has been covered in the past. Part
of my disability is memory problems from ect medical treatment,
and I apologize for not thinking of this before the
month started, because I imagine you record a good chunk of
(03:16):
episodes significantly in advance. But I hate the fact marriage
equality does not exist for disabled people. I mean, while
SSI is not ideal, if you am asked more than
two thousand dollars in your bank account, they'll cut you off.
There's a loophole called abel accounts, but I do not
know that much about these, though opening one is a
goal of mine. It's basically all I got because I
(03:38):
can't work a normal job. But part of it is
you cannot get married, gay or straight without the risk
of losing benefits. I've also heard if the government breaking
couples apart, they understood they couldn't get married with this fact.
It's not a happy topic and I apologize for that,
but I think it's a topic more people need to
know about. I am on the asexual spectrum, but I'm
(03:58):
not completely a romance took or anything. I would love
to date someone someday, but I don't look forward to
starting a conversation with Since I'm disabled, I legally can
never marry you. If you're looking for that sort of thing,
go elsewhere. So because of that, I've never tried dating.
A few people have dated me in the sense of
my oblivious ass not knowing it was a date until
they said something. There's more I could say, like that,
(04:21):
my government health insurance doesn't cover gender affirming care, so
while I am pursuing top surgery, I'm going to have
to find another way to pay for it. If you
know of a way for me to become a best
selling author, you know where to find me. Lol. If
I did, I would reach out immediately.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
And hopefully we would be with you.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Hopefully we would be with you. Indeed, please buy her
book available wherever you get your books. Thanks dude.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
That's so sad. I did not realize I was.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
I've heard many people talk about not getting married for
several reasons like this does hurt my benefits for this
through the dual income thing. But wow, this is a
whole different level.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yes, I had only heard kind of anecdotally about it.
I never researched into it. And so thank you very
much Jude for sending this to us, because, like I said,
I think a lot of people don't know about it.
It's very important to talk about. And Jude also sent
resources which we are going to be referencing throughout this
And like I said, it is a bit of a
(05:32):
complicated discussion because it involves a few walls and regulations.
So we're going to break down some of the important ones. First,
all revolving around government benefits, largely federal government benefits. Social
Security are otherwise that disabled people in the US can
use based on their ability or not to work. Oh
(05:52):
and just for fun, the rules aren't consistent, so that's fun. Yeah,
But onwards.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
So this is one of the articles that you sent
from the Disability Secrets by Bethany K.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Lawrence.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
So one is Supplementary Security Income SSI for people with
disabilities who have very low incomes and those who don't
qualify for SSDI. And in twenty twenty four, the SSI
income limit for one person is nine hundred and forty
three dollars per month, and for couples it is fourteen
hundred and fifteen dollars a month.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
That is not a lot.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Social Security Disability Insurance SSDI for eligible workers who can't
work because of disability, disabled adult child benefits which are
based on your parents' earnings record, and surviving spouse benefits,
which are based on that record of your deceased spouse
or ex spouse.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Right, So those are some key terms we're going to
be using throughout this. But when it comes to this
question of marriage and how marriage impacts these benefits are doesn't,
which is what we're specifically looking into. We're going to
go kind of piece by piece. So let's start with
SSI Supplemental Security income, which is the most important in
(07:05):
terms of this conversation. This was established about fifty years ago.
Getting married doesn't impact eligibility for SSI, but the spouse's
income does. So if the spouse in question has an
income and you live with them, then that does impact
(07:26):
those receiving SSI because the Social Security Administration or the
SSA will pin some of the spouse's income to the
person getting it.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Right, And I'm pretty sure we'll probably talk about this,
but This is also the conversation of like domestic violence
being higher and abuse being higher within the disabled communities
because of rules like this. Yeah, just as a reminder,
this practice is called deeming spousal income. Basically, they quote
deem that a portion of a legally married spouse spouse's
(07:57):
income to the disabled person in question can essentially lower
the SSI or make them ineligible entirely. And reminder, we
pay taxes yeah that go into this. That has been
used for military use, but not for people in our community.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Again, reminder, it's also not limited to legal marriage either.
It impacts those quote holding themselves out to be married.
This very much confused me, but it essentially means you're
presenting yourselves as married and or are essentially married, as
we would traditionally judge it. Quote. If there's any evidence
(08:36):
that either of you present yourselves to others as married,
social security will probe further asking questions such as, how
do you introduce the other person in social situations? How
is mail addressed to you and the other person? Do
you still use your married name if applicable? Do you
own your home jointly? If you rent, are both your
(08:57):
names on the lease? Do your bills, bank accounts, and
tax returns identify you as married, so the SSA could
judge you're pretty much married. I'm guessing that they think
you're trying to evade the rules by being married in
all but documentation and lower or remove the benefits of SSI.
(09:21):
We found a it was a really dry report from
two thousand and three from the SSA about this, and
it seemed to hilariously be like, Yep, it's better if
you don't get married but are living together, but yeah,
you can't hold out for marriage. They like saying the
quiet part out loud.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
I mean, I think there's a lot of people who
have that conversation in general about legalities in marriage in general,
and for those who do want to get married, that's
so absurd.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
But for those who.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Don't want to get married, they're like, I'm good with it.
I'm one of those people from Disability Secrets. If you're
living with someone but not married to that part and
we're never married, social Security might count your roommate's income
as if you were married. This could lower your SSI
benefit or even make you ineligible for benefits. But if
you're living with a sibling, a caregiver, or a platonic roommate.
(10:14):
The SSA wouldn't consider the other person's income. If someone
is getting free room aboard from a person they're living with,
this can cut their SSI buy one third. Yep.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
If both the people in question receive SSI, their payments
are combined and lowered to the couple's rate, which is
lower than twice the singles rate. So, in other words,
two single people together are getting more, but if you
become a couple and you get the couple's rate, you're
getting less.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Just absurd.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Yeah, and it has been called the marriage penalty. So
this amounts to going from nine hundred and forty three
dollars a month, which, as you said, Samantha, is very
very low for a single person, to a seven hundred
and seven dollars a person a month for a married
couple if both are receiving SSI. This also impacts countable
(11:09):
resources outside of a car, house, and household goods. This
is reportedly because the SSA believes it's cheaper and easier
living with another person, but it's basically saying, if you
marry someone who is making forty thousand dollars a year,
which is about the federal minimum wage ish they make
enough to take care of you completely, which is out
(11:32):
of touch and wrong and no, sorry, I wish what
and this isn't taking into account so many things, so
many things like wage stagnation, the gender pay gap, childcare,
numerous unpaid and unseen things that go into care or rent,
in housing control, the difficulty of getting a disability friendly job,
(11:54):
the difficulty of getting these benefits in the first place,
the difficulty of understanding how they work, work, the paperwork.
I'm telling you. When I was researching this, my mind
was like, oh my gosh, I'm so tired.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
The amount of people I've had to advise in social
work to do their disability paperwork twice and to make
sure that you appeal because you will most likely be
denied immediately no matter what. Like my parents, who are
very staunchly conservative and all like I don't want to
take care of anybody else, they had to go for
disability paperwork. They got denied, and they were very upset
(12:33):
because we would never take advantage of ma'am, ma'am. And
then me having to talk to them like you have
to appeal. I don't think they did. I think they
got discouraged and they didn't. I'm like, no, you have
to appeal these paperwork because they are literally stacked against you.
Any kind of paperwork when it comes to federal government,
which for assistance for any of that are probably some
(12:55):
of the most complicated paperwork I have ever seen. One
of the best things that happened in my college course
was us being given a full form and told do
this as an assignment, and then coming back and realizing
we'd all know mistakes, it had to start over again,
and that what that process looked like. And this is
exactly what they do to try to discourage a person
who was in need. So all of these things is
(13:18):
such a way to hinder and discourage a person from
getting actual assistance, which they've probably probably already paid into,
which is the other part that's like, uh anyway, Also, yeah,
with all that, children also factor into the equation here.
Each child impacts the numbers in terms of when a
spouse's income is attributed to the person receiving SSI.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yes, and speaking of complicated, so it's like a chart
how many children you have, how much money you'll get
or won't get. Basically, by getting married, a disabled person
could receive less or none of the benefits they were
receiving before. This can mean a huge difference in quality
of life, or even the difference between the life life
(14:00):
or death, so it's a really big deal. The SSA
requires that those receiving SSI contact them within ten days
of marriage are new living arrangements. Otherwise they will charge
an overpayment, which is usually collected by withholding SSI payments.
(14:21):
And if anyone's dealt with stuff like this before, the
interest rate if they choose to charge it can be outrageous.
And I feel ten days, you're just so stressed during
those times. I can easily see how that would fall
through the cracks.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Yeah, people don't even go and get their name changed
or get their status change. Some of them don't even
go and get their marriage certificate and turned down, Like
I know that it takes a long time. Women changing
their last name. Oh my gosh, it's a damn process.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
So this, yeah, it feels like you would have to
with the mail being what it is, so you would
have to mail it pretty much immediately right to work
to rip in time.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Right, And they probably don't give you notice that tell
you that you did that, because the IRAS sure doesn't.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
So You're like, I don't know if it went in
or not. I got I hope so rectors cross situation
if they wanted to take home more money from me. Thanks.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
So here's a quote from nineteenth News. Qualifying for SSI
is important even for people with significant disabilities who can work,
because eligibility is tied to being able to receive home
and community based services covered by Medicaid. In many states,
Medicaid is the only health insurance that provides in home care,
and the average cost ranges from fifty one thousand to
(15:52):
seventy thousand per year according to the Government Accountability Office.
Even most people making middle class income and salary jobs
can afford the level of care out of pocket. And again,
as someone who has experienced trying to get care for
people and assistance for people, it is incredibly expensive. The
amount of cost per hour, and they charge per hour,
(16:16):
and it could be as simply and it's based on
the provider. And by the way, it's the limited amount
of people that are providers is so small that it's
probably one of the most discouraging things I've ever seen
in my life because the likelihood that these people are
qualified for very specific things are low.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
To zero.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
I've never been more frustrated in my life than trying
to get accessible care for those who are desperately in
need who are on Medicaid. And y'all, to get on
Medicaid you have to be in the poverty level essentially,
which is also another problem because you want to live
and free yourself. So there's so many complications to this,
and if you get too much assistance, by the way,
(16:53):
it can stack against you. Yes, so much of this,
So just getting that I can't imagine, because in home
camera's probably one of the most expensive ways outside of
being in an institution that is actually qualified with true
amount of medical professionals who can actually cater to their clientele.
(17:17):
So what I mean by that is like having one
doctor of per threte patients instead of one doctor per
one hundred patients type of thing. So it's incredibly difficult.
And the amount of people who the good ones who
stop providing services for Medicaid because they've had, god had
so many run arounds with the government and not being
able to do that for them for people, as you
(17:40):
can tell, I could keep going, but it's one of
the most frustrating, disheartening and honestly it does feel like
it's a bit of eugenics within the government when it
comes to stuff like this.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah. Yeah, we'll touch on that more briefly in a second.
But this has been continues to be a big point
of conversation because we have people in government that are
seeing things like I understand, I can go days without
this necessary piece of life. I don't know why we
have to provide.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
It's not like I go back to my regular life
after the one day I tried to see what this felt.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Like, right, Oh makes me mad? And yeah, like like
you're saying, those those home care hours are huge and
there's so many it's so important. In many cases, it's
about like human dignity and the cost of losing that
and the cost of providing that. And on top of this,
(18:35):
we need to have another conversation about how we pay
workers for doing this, because there is a reason there's
so much burnout and it's not compensated or respected like
it should.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Be, you know, as in fact, most of the times
that the workers are there, they're unqualified. And I don't
see that as I'm not saying that as a slap
to those who are in there in the field. What
I'm talking about is in general, they're so unwilling to
pay the people what they're worth that they're willing to
hire people who are not qualified to do it, so
maybe have one or two like ten hour courses and
(19:12):
then they come in as an assistant without like any conversations.
Like I've had friends who would do part time jobs
as college students being parapros. So they assist those with
disabilities in schools and try to be like active advocates
and all that, but they're not really qualified. They're just
sometimes college students who just need extra money, which means
(19:34):
they're not giving the care. Not not everyone, because there
are those who really do care and love their job
and love the people they're representing, so I'm not saying that.
But the qualifications are so low that any almost anyone
can do it. So it's kind of like, is this
really helping? Are you just throwing, like, you know, a
band aid over a huge gap of needs, And which
is also often why a lot of the kids in
(19:54):
the system that have any type of disabilities, learning disabilities,
any of that, are left behind because again, no one
is really qualified to represent them and advocate for them,
and they don't know how. That's that other conversation. It's
like the parents don't know how, so the pair pros
definitely don't know how oftentimes. So I say this with
like having seeing that and then although imposing all these
(20:17):
things on top of that and not allowing for people
with disabilities to have the life that they want.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
It's just such an odd thing.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
And so having these workers who are not qualified because
they don't care enough to teach and or give them.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
The qualifications that they need.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
And then the ones that are so good at it
and the ones who are caring and the ones who
do go beyond to learn about it are burned out,
like you said, And it's all literal minimum wage because
that's the only the most maybe is like twelve dollars
an hour, and this is for the sake of someone
else's livelihood.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Like it's like question mark.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah, yeah, a lot of big question marks in this one.
So that is SSI. Let us talk about SSDI or
Social Security Disability Insurance. Okay, so if someone has worked
long enough to qualify for SSDI, getting married shouldn't affect.
(21:14):
There are their spouse's benefit payments. There aren't income limits,
there aren't property limits like there are with SSI. Now,
if someone gets both SSDI and SSI, that can change
the answer that being said. If a person is collecting
SSDI from someone else based on their work, marrying or
(21:36):
other things can impact the benefit amount. So here are
a couple of common examples of that. An adult child
receiving benefits from their parents SSDI based on their parents
work record will probably lose the SSDI benefits. By getting married,
children can lose their parents SSDI dependence benefits based on
(21:57):
a couple of things, including turning eighteen or nineteen depending
or getting married. Another big example, widowers are eligible for
receiving their partner's SSDI if they were eligible. However, if
you're younger than sixty, are younger than fifty, and don't
have a disability and you remarry, those benefits stop, which
(22:19):
I think again is ridiculous because yeah, like you said,
you put work and money into this, Like wow, okay,
it goes away right all right. And just to note here,
I know we joke about it on the show. You
can hear it in our voices because we laugh when
we feel helpless. Our healthcare system in the US is
(22:41):
a mess at best at best, and this isn't to
say there aren't amazing people working in it, working to
change it. We've heard from some of you, we know
some of you, and you're amazing, and you do so
much in the face of so much. But in this case,
what we're talking about specifically here is some of the
routine medications and procedures or visits for people receiving SSI
(23:05):
or SSDI are thousands, if not tens of thousands of
dollars a month. And we know all about private insurance
and how they try to get around covering people with
pre existing conditions legal or not. It's not supposed to
be legal, but I feel like they still get away
with it. And this includes a spouse's insurance, which seems
to be a big part of what underpins this marriage penalty,
(23:27):
which we also know if you're depending on your spouse's
private insurance that that can look pretty grim as well.
So it's really really expensive ultimately, as what I'm saying,
and most of us, I would say almost all of
us couldn't afford it. So Jude also sent us an
(23:51):
NPR story from twenty twenty two called millions of disabled
Americans could lose federal benefits if they get married by
Eric Mahoney that pr fashion has a very specific personal
story while also telling like a much larger story in it.
Mahoney interviews Congressman Jimmy Panetta of California, who had recently
(24:11):
introduced the Marriage Equality for Disabled Built Act in the
US House of Representatives. Other states like Ohio and Louisiana
falliwed suit. I feel like all of them have been stalled.
But please let me know if that's not true, and
they dive into how these laws and rules were written.
It was just assumed people with disabilities wouldn't get married,
(24:33):
which is an incredibly ablest idea that we've talked about
before and also holds the kind of infantilizing and desexualizing
of people with disabilities within it, but also a long
history of violence and control. It's also true the idea
used to be that one person, the man in a
(24:55):
very heterosexual sense, was the breadwinner who took care of
the wife, who did all the housekeeping. This is no
longer the case and really not possible for a lot
of people. Almost everyone I know that's in a couple
can only exist based on dual income. It's just really
antiquated and yes, we need to address why single income
(25:17):
homes are so unrealistic now too, and pay people who
take care of kids. Having kids is.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Expensive, right, I think it's just such a weird fault
of like again in a world where our country specifically
is like, we need to care for the children, but
not really few and you take it on your own.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
You're on your own.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
It's gotten like this level of disconnect where you think, well,
now they have children, and you're pushes for more children
to be born because that's your thing.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Apparently, how are you going to help?
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah, And there's like so many things that we've talked
about very briefly or mentioned very briefly in this that
I might well, at the very least, so you could
do something to raise the like our pay what we get.
You could do something to prevent housing and rent going wild,
(26:12):
like so many small things.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
How about what you can do we save the environment
and help the environment so our children don't grow into
this horrible, horrible healthscape with no access to anything because
you know, beaches are being closed off because of bacteria
that's growing because of climate change and pollution.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
We can do about that, y'all.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
But yeah, on top of that, if every child is
special and unique and has all these things, then we
need to treat each child as a special case and
provide exactly what is needed, including whatever medical care they need,
and without grumbling and without fighting and without overcharging.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Mm hmmm, that would be awesome too.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
And here and just like one more reminder here, disability
in this country is expensive and very very expensive. Another
story re read estimated that without Medicaid provided through SSI,
the person in question would have to pay one hundred
thousand to two hundred thousand a year for in home business. Yeah,
(27:12):
that's the number I was looking for, honestly, because fifty
to seventy with Medicaid is pretty generous. I think even
with Medicaid it would probably hit to one hundred thousand
grand a year, especially if it's like in home care
consistent in home care.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
H Yeah, and it depends on so many factors too.
But it's expensive, that we can say for sure. And
(27:51):
going back to another point that you mentioned, Samantha, another
part of this whole thing is this over blown and
politicized fear of fraud that people are essentially trying to
gain the system, and that people with disabilities are lazy
and aren't trustworthy, not worthy honestly, and not only is
(28:13):
that completely wrong, it was clear and doing this research.
As I said, how difficult every step of this is,
from getting the benefits to proving that you need them,
to keeping them right.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Just as a reminder, to lose disability, it doesn't take
anything literally like to like. You have to be so
on top of everything that you may not even get
a notice that you're about to be dropped.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yes, there have been a lot of news stories about
that lately. Here's a quote from Forbes. As disability scholar
Ari Niemann recently noted in a New York Times article
on how benefits are confusing by design, the sheer complexity
of these different rules are, like most disability benefits rules,
kafka esque. Intentionally or not, they further penalize people who
(28:56):
have less access to accurate information and less ability to
strategic plan out their finances and legal arrangements. Because obviously,
if you know about these penalties ahead of time, you
can avoid them by simply not getting married. It's a
terrible position and a gut wrenching decision, as anyone who
is married or has wanted to marry well knows, But
(29:16):
the penalty itself and the supposed savings to the taxpayer
is easily avoided, but it's also easily triggered if the
people involved don't know about it, or if they get
bad advice about it. In a sense, the government hopes
in part to save money by disabled people accidentally triggering
these benefits reductions.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Right again a guy actor where they also hope they
can just kill them off. It's eugenics legitimately any we
can continue on another times. Articles from twenty sixteen quotes
Philip Cohen, a sociologist at the University of Maryland, College Park,
who knows the overall first marriage rate in the United
States from people age eighteen to forty nine is forty
(29:58):
eight point nine per one thousand, for people with disability
is just twenty four point four.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
And yes, as you said, some have even brought up
the dark history of eugenics in this and how this
intentionally or not seems to discourage disabled people from getting married,
which is something many people do before I have kids,
not everybody. It even seems to incentivize divorce, which, when
you put it in context of the whole Christian Conservative
(30:26):
push for the nuclear family, seems a little off something
is not right.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Well, I mean, if we follow along those lines and
we know that it comes from an area and background.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
It makes a lot more sense.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
It's true we laugh because we're in vain, but yeah,
but that's just real.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yeah, yep. And of course there are a lot of
discussions and disagreements around marriage, but for many it does
signify acceptance by society, a legal recognition of commitment, something
someone may have wanted their whole life. And for a
lot of folks, there are substantial government benefits for getting married,
and it seems pretty dub that in this case it's
(31:10):
the opposite. If it's a choice between living and functioning
in marriage, then there's no real choices there. And I
feel like the fact that they have that kind of
holding out for marriage really drives home the point it
doesn't even matter if they think that you're basically a
(31:33):
married couple, then that they're going to take those benefits
away anyway, right.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Literally trying to find any reason to take the benefits away.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah mm hmm uh. And as I said, for some people,
this is yeah, this is life or death. This is right.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
So for a chunk of people, this is life or death.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Like endpoint because as what we've talked about before, and
as been said it stated by many disability activists, being
able bodied is temporary, whether it's age or whatever, whatnot,
being disabled is a reality is going to happen. We
see that again, Like you know, we've talked to you
and I have talked about the fact that our parents
(32:17):
recently had gone to the hospital for different incidents, and
we fear when they fall or when they do something
and are no longer able to care for themselves. The
cost of money just in trying to find in living
care for elderly yeah, is absurd. And if you if
they are not already like provided by Medicare, which is great,
but they're still trying to cut Medicare. We saw that
(32:39):
in the state of Georgia. They're trying to cut Medicare
and trying to reason with my parents about like your
governor has done this, but they don't quite see it.
Like they have come to the realization that Medicare is
allowed for them to go get examinations, which I'm really
glad that they have actually taken the opportunity to use
those benefits, but like trying to remind them to is
(33:00):
very very We're on a very like thin line on.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Whether or not this is going to be accessible in
the future.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Yes, and just to note again I'm not legal experts,
but a lot of this does relate to in the
US when you get like social Security as an older
person as well, so a lot of it does.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Have right, They're all interlocking.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Yeah, it's just please don't look up, do your own research.
I hope this is a good starting off point. But
like we said, it's confusing. It's purposely designed to be confusing,
and it changes often. It changes often, so I believe
the numbers be quoted in this was as of twenty
twenty three or twenty twenty four, so it was a
(33:42):
recent change. But yeah, I'm thank you so much, Jude,
yeah for suggesting this. And if there's anything we got
wrong or could have phrased better, because I was a
little like, wow, us some damnse documentation. Yes, please let
(34:04):
us know. And if there are any resources or if
you have any stories you would like us to share.
I would love to hear from all of you. You
can email us at Stuff Media, moom stuff at iHeartMedia
dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mom
Stuff Podcast. We're also on Instagram and TikTok at stuff
I never told you. We're on YouTube, and we are
(34:24):
on public, and we have a book you can get
wherever you get your books, where we did talk about
some of this stuff in there. Thanks as always to
our super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya, and our
contributor Joey.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Thanks to you for listening stuff I Never told you
This direction of My Heart Radio. For more podcast from
my Heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio
app Apple Podcasts, wherever you listen to your favorite shows
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha among my stuff. Never
told you a prediction of iHeartRadio. And today we are
doing a listener suggestion from Jude and we'll be reading
(00:25):
Jude's message in a second about marriage and disability because
it is Disability Pride Month and this is something I
think a lot of people don't know about. You can
see our recent episode on women in disability, past episodes
on the ADA, the past episode we did with Invisible
Disability with Eves. We've done a lot of stuff around this,
(00:46):
but those are a few that came to my mind.
Also a note about terminology. I know I said this recently.
There's not agreement currently on the quote correct way say
people with disabilities or disabled people. So just a note
about that. A lot of people use them interchangeably. Some
(01:06):
people have really strong opinions and they have great reasoning
behind those opinions. We're probably going to use them based
on what the articles we use and also the people
are using in context of what we're talking about. So
just a note. Also a note we are not legal experts. No,
(01:28):
we have never interacted with these services, and they're kind
of complicated and I would argue purposely, so which we're
going to talk about, but note about that, and just
a reminder, the disabled community is the largest marginalized community
in the world and a majority of us will experience
a temporary disability at one point. All right, So just
(01:53):
to reiterate from our recent Monday many on women in
disability from the CDC quote, about thirty six million women
in the US have disabilities and the numbers growing. About
forty four percent of those aged sixty five years are
older are living with the disability. The most common cause
of disability for women is arthritis, are rheumatism and from now.
(02:13):
Women with disabilities are particularly disadvantaged when it comes to
wage equality. In twenty twenty two, women who are disabled
made seventy two cents for every dollar paid to a
man who is disabled. Compared to the non disabled community,
women with disabilities made sixty eight cents to every dollar
earned by able bodied men. If an individual from this
community is seeking employment, the current hiring rate of women
(02:36):
with disabilities between the ages of sixteen to sixty four
stands at thirty seven percent. Throughout the employment process, women
can face challenges ranging from organizational readiness and inclusivity to
accessible employment processes. And workplace inclusivity provisions, and of course
people of color and black people specifically are disproportionately impacted
(02:56):
by all of this as well. Okay, so let us
get on to this listener mail, so Jude wrote, I
apologize if this has been covered in the past. Part
of my disability is memory problems from ect medical treatment,
and I apologize for not thinking of this before the
month started, because I imagine you record a good chunk of
(03:16):
episodes significantly in advance. But I hate the fact marriage
equality does not exist for disabled people. I mean, while
SSI is not ideal, if you am asked more than
two thousand dollars in your bank account, they'll cut you off.
There's a loophole called abel accounts, but I do not
know that much about these, though opening one is a
goal of mine. It's basically all I got because I
(03:38):
can't work a normal job. But part of it is
you cannot get married, gay or straight without the risk
of losing benefits. I've also heard if the government breaking
couples apart, they understood they couldn't get married with this fact.
It's not a happy topic and I apologize for that,
but I think it's a topic more people need to
know about. I am on the asexual spectrum, but I'm
(03:58):
not completely a romance took or anything. I would love
to date someone someday, but I don't look forward to
starting a conversation with Since I'm disabled, I legally can
never marry you. If you're looking for that sort of thing,
go elsewhere. So because of that, I've never tried dating.
A few people have dated me in the sense of
my oblivious ass not knowing it was a date until
they said something. There's more I could say, like that,
(04:21):
my government health insurance doesn't cover gender affirming care, so
while I am pursuing top surgery, I'm going to have
to find another way to pay for it. If you
know of a way for me to become a best
selling author, you know where to find me. Lol. If
I did, I would reach out immediately.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
And hopefully we would be with you.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Hopefully we would be with you. Indeed, please buy her
book available wherever you get your books. Thanks dude.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
That's so sad. I did not realize I was.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
I've heard many people talk about not getting married for
several reasons like this does hurt my benefits for this
through the dual income thing. But wow, this is a
whole different level.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yes, I had only heard kind of anecdotally about it.
I never researched into it. And so thank you very
much Jude for sending this to us, because, like I said,
I think a lot of people don't know about it.
It's very important to talk about. And Jude also sent
resources which we are going to be referencing throughout this
And like I said, it is a bit of a
(05:32):
complicated discussion because it involves a few walls and regulations.
So we're going to break down some of the important ones. First,
all revolving around government benefits, largely federal government benefits. Social
Security are otherwise that disabled people in the US can
use based on their ability or not to work. Oh
(05:52):
and just for fun, the rules aren't consistent, so that's fun. Yeah,
But onwards.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
So this is one of the articles that you sent
from the Disability Secrets by Bethany K.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Lawrence.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
So one is Supplementary Security Income SSI for people with
disabilities who have very low incomes and those who don't
qualify for SSDI. And in twenty twenty four, the SSI
income limit for one person is nine hundred and forty
three dollars per month, and for couples it is fourteen
hundred and fifteen dollars a month.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
That is not a lot.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Social Security Disability Insurance SSDI for eligible workers who can't
work because of disability, disabled adult child benefits which are
based on your parents' earnings record, and surviving spouse benefits,
which are based on that record of your deceased spouse
or ex spouse.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Right, So those are some key terms we're going to
be using throughout this. But when it comes to this
question of marriage and how marriage impacts these benefits are doesn't,
which is what we're specifically looking into. We're going to
go kind of piece by piece. So let's start with
SSI Supplemental Security income, which is the most important in
(07:05):
terms of this conversation. This was established about fifty years ago.
Getting married doesn't impact eligibility for SSI, but the spouse's
income does. So if the spouse in question has an
income and you live with them, then that does impact
(07:26):
those receiving SSI because the Social Security Administration or the
SSA will pin some of the spouse's income to the
person getting it.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Right, And I'm pretty sure we'll probably talk about this,
but This is also the conversation of like domestic violence
being higher and abuse being higher within the disabled communities
because of rules like this. Yeah, just as a reminder,
this practice is called deeming spousal income. Basically, they quote
deem that a portion of a legally married spouse spouse's
(07:57):
income to the disabled person in question can essentially lower
the SSI or make them ineligible entirely. And reminder, we
pay taxes yeah that go into this. That has been
used for military use, but not for people in our community.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Again, reminder, it's also not limited to legal marriage either.
It impacts those quote holding themselves out to be married.
This very much confused me, but it essentially means you're
presenting yourselves as married and or are essentially married, as
we would traditionally judge it. Quote. If there's any evidence
(08:36):
that either of you present yourselves to others as married,
social security will probe further asking questions such as, how
do you introduce the other person in social situations? How
is mail addressed to you and the other person? Do
you still use your married name if applicable? Do you
own your home jointly? If you rent, are both your
(08:57):
names on the lease? Do your bills, bank accounts, and
tax returns identify you as married, so the SSA could
judge you're pretty much married. I'm guessing that they think
you're trying to evade the rules by being married in
all but documentation and lower or remove the benefits of SSI.
(09:21):
We found a it was a really dry report from
two thousand and three from the SSA about this, and
it seemed to hilariously be like, Yep, it's better if
you don't get married but are living together, but yeah,
you can't hold out for marriage. They like saying the
quiet part out loud.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
I mean, I think there's a lot of people who
have that conversation in general about legalities in marriage in general,
and for those who do want to get married, that's
so absurd.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
But for those who.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Don't want to get married, they're like, I'm good with it.
I'm one of those people from Disability Secrets. If you're
living with someone but not married to that part and
we're never married, social Security might count your roommate's income
as if you were married. This could lower your SSI
benefit or even make you ineligible for benefits. But if
you're living with a sibling, a caregiver, or a platonic roommate.
(10:14):
The SSA wouldn't consider the other person's income. If someone
is getting free room aboard from a person they're living with,
this can cut their SSI buy one third. Yep.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
If both the people in question receive SSI, their payments
are combined and lowered to the couple's rate, which is
lower than twice the singles rate. So, in other words,
two single people together are getting more, but if you
become a couple and you get the couple's rate, you're
getting less.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Just absurd.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Yeah, and it has been called the marriage penalty. So
this amounts to going from nine hundred and forty three
dollars a month, which, as you said, Samantha, is very
very low for a single person, to a seven hundred
and seven dollars a person a month for a married
couple if both are receiving SSI. This also impacts countable
(11:09):
resources outside of a car, house, and household goods. This
is reportedly because the SSA believes it's cheaper and easier
living with another person, but it's basically saying, if you
marry someone who is making forty thousand dollars a year,
which is about the federal minimum wage ish they make
enough to take care of you completely, which is out
(11:32):
of touch and wrong and no, sorry, I wish what
and this isn't taking into account so many things, so
many things like wage stagnation, the gender pay gap, childcare,
numerous unpaid and unseen things that go into care or rent,
in housing control, the difficulty of getting a disability friendly job,
(11:54):
the difficulty of getting these benefits in the first place,
the difficulty of understanding how they work, work, the paperwork.
I'm telling you. When I was researching this, my mind
was like, oh my gosh, I'm so tired.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
The amount of people I've had to advise in social
work to do their disability paperwork twice and to make
sure that you appeal because you will most likely be
denied immediately no matter what. Like my parents, who are
very staunchly conservative and all like I don't want to
take care of anybody else, they had to go for
disability paperwork. They got denied, and they were very upset
(12:33):
because we would never take advantage of ma'am, ma'am. And
then me having to talk to them like you have
to appeal. I don't think they did. I think they
got discouraged and they didn't. I'm like, no, you have
to appeal these paperwork because they are literally stacked against you.
Any kind of paperwork when it comes to federal government,
which for assistance for any of that are probably some
(12:55):
of the most complicated paperwork I have ever seen. One
of the best things that happened in my college course
was us being given a full form and told do
this as an assignment, and then coming back and realizing
we'd all know mistakes, it had to start over again,
and that what that process looked like. And this is
exactly what they do to try to discourage a person
who was in need. So all of these things is
(13:18):
such a way to hinder and discourage a person from
getting actual assistance, which they've probably probably already paid into,
which is the other part that's like, uh anyway, Also, yeah,
with all that, children also factor into the equation here.
Each child impacts the numbers in terms of when a
spouse's income is attributed to the person receiving SSI.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yes, and speaking of complicated, so it's like a chart
how many children you have, how much money you'll get
or won't get. Basically, by getting married, a disabled person
could receive less or none of the benefits they were
receiving before. This can mean a huge difference in quality
of life, or even the difference between the life life
(14:00):
or death, so it's a really big deal. The SSA
requires that those receiving SSI contact them within ten days
of marriage are new living arrangements. Otherwise they will charge
an overpayment, which is usually collected by withholding SSI payments.
(14:21):
And if anyone's dealt with stuff like this before, the
interest rate if they choose to charge it can be outrageous.
And I feel ten days, you're just so stressed during
those times. I can easily see how that would fall
through the cracks.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Yeah, people don't even go and get their name changed
or get their status change. Some of them don't even
go and get their marriage certificate and turned down, Like
I know that it takes a long time. Women changing
their last name. Oh my gosh, it's a damn process.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
So this, yeah, it feels like you would have to
with the mail being what it is, so you would
have to mail it pretty much immediately right to work
to rip in time.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Right, And they probably don't give you notice that tell
you that you did that, because the IRAS sure doesn't.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
So You're like, I don't know if it went in
or not. I got I hope so rectors cross situation
if they wanted to take home more money from me. Thanks.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
So here's a quote from nineteenth News. Qualifying for SSI
is important even for people with significant disabilities who can work,
because eligibility is tied to being able to receive home
and community based services covered by Medicaid. In many states,
Medicaid is the only health insurance that provides in home care,
and the average cost ranges from fifty one thousand to
(15:52):
seventy thousand per year according to the Government Accountability Office.
Even most people making middle class income and salary jobs
can afford the level of care out of pocket. And again,
as someone who has experienced trying to get care for
people and assistance for people, it is incredibly expensive. The
amount of cost per hour, and they charge per hour,
(16:16):
and it could be as simply and it's based on
the provider. And by the way, it's the limited amount
of people that are providers is so small that it's
probably one of the most discouraging things I've ever seen
in my life because the likelihood that these people are
qualified for very specific things are low.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
To zero.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
I've never been more frustrated in my life than trying
to get accessible care for those who are desperately in
need who are on Medicaid. And y'all, to get on
Medicaid you have to be in the poverty level essentially,
which is also another problem because you want to live
and free yourself. So there's so many complications to this,
and if you get too much assistance, by the way,
(16:53):
it can stack against you. Yes, so much of this,
So just getting that I can't imagine, because in home
camera's probably one of the most expensive ways outside of
being in an institution that is actually qualified with true
amount of medical professionals who can actually cater to their clientele.
(17:17):
So what I mean by that is like having one
doctor of per threte patients instead of one doctor per
one hundred patients type of thing. So it's incredibly difficult.
And the amount of people who the good ones who
stop providing services for Medicaid because they've had, god had
so many run arounds with the government and not being
able to do that for them for people, as you
(17:40):
can tell, I could keep going, but it's one of
the most frustrating, disheartening and honestly it does feel like
it's a bit of eugenics within the government when it
comes to stuff like this.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah. Yeah, we'll touch on that more briefly in a second.
But this has been continues to be a big point
of conversation because we have people in government that are
seeing things like I understand, I can go days without
this necessary piece of life. I don't know why we
have to provide.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
It's not like I go back to my regular life
after the one day I tried to see what this felt.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Like, right, Oh makes me mad? And yeah, like like
you're saying, those those home care hours are huge and
there's so many it's so important. In many cases, it's
about like human dignity and the cost of losing that
and the cost of providing that. And on top of this,
(18:35):
we need to have another conversation about how we pay
workers for doing this, because there is a reason there's
so much burnout and it's not compensated or respected like
it should.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Be, you know, as in fact, most of the times
that the workers are there, they're unqualified. And I don't
see that as I'm not saying that as a slap
to those who are in there in the field. What
I'm talking about is in general, they're so unwilling to
pay the people what they're worth that they're willing to
hire people who are not qualified to do it, so
maybe have one or two like ten hour courses and
(19:12):
then they come in as an assistant without like any conversations.
Like I've had friends who would do part time jobs
as college students being parapros. So they assist those with
disabilities in schools and try to be like active advocates
and all that, but they're not really qualified. They're just
sometimes college students who just need extra money, which means
(19:34):
they're not giving the care. Not not everyone, because there
are those who really do care and love their job
and love the people they're representing, so I'm not saying that.
But the qualifications are so low that any almost anyone
can do it. So it's kind of like, is this
really helping? Are you just throwing, like, you know, a
band aid over a huge gap of needs, And which
is also often why a lot of the kids in
(19:54):
the system that have any type of disabilities, learning disabilities,
any of that, are left behind because again, no one
is really qualified to represent them and advocate for them,
and they don't know how. That's that other conversation. It's
like the parents don't know how, so the pair pros
definitely don't know how oftentimes. So I say this with
like having seeing that and then although imposing all these
(20:17):
things on top of that and not allowing for people
with disabilities to have the life that they want.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
It's just such an odd thing.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
And so having these workers who are not qualified because
they don't care enough to teach and or give them.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
The qualifications that they need.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
And then the ones that are so good at it
and the ones who are caring and the ones who
do go beyond to learn about it are burned out,
like you said, And it's all literal minimum wage because
that's the only the most maybe is like twelve dollars
an hour, and this is for the sake of someone
else's livelihood.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Like it's like question mark.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah, yeah, a lot of big question marks in this one.
So that is SSI. Let us talk about SSDI or
Social Security Disability Insurance. Okay, so if someone has worked
long enough to qualify for SSDI, getting married shouldn't affect.
(21:14):
There are their spouse's benefit payments. There aren't income limits,
there aren't property limits like there are with SSI. Now,
if someone gets both SSDI and SSI, that can change
the answer that being said. If a person is collecting
SSDI from someone else based on their work, marrying or
(21:36):
other things can impact the benefit amount. So here are
a couple of common examples of that. An adult child
receiving benefits from their parents SSDI based on their parents
work record will probably lose the SSDI benefits. By getting married,
children can lose their parents SSDI dependence benefits based on
(21:57):
a couple of things, including turning eighteen or nineteen depending
or getting married. Another big example, widowers are eligible for
receiving their partner's SSDI if they were eligible. However, if
you're younger than sixty, are younger than fifty, and don't
have a disability and you remarry, those benefits stop, which
(22:19):
I think again is ridiculous because yeah, like you said,
you put work and money into this, Like wow, okay,
it goes away right all right. And just to note here,
I know we joke about it on the show. You
can hear it in our voices because we laugh when
we feel helpless. Our healthcare system in the US is
(22:41):
a mess at best at best, and this isn't to
say there aren't amazing people working in it, working to
change it. We've heard from some of you, we know
some of you, and you're amazing, and you do so
much in the face of so much. But in this case,
what we're talking about specifically here is some of the
routine medications and procedures or visits for people receiving SSI
(23:05):
or SSDI are thousands, if not tens of thousands of
dollars a month. And we know all about private insurance
and how they try to get around covering people with
pre existing conditions legal or not. It's not supposed to
be legal, but I feel like they still get away
with it. And this includes a spouse's insurance, which seems
to be a big part of what underpins this marriage penalty,
(23:27):
which we also know if you're depending on your spouse's
private insurance that that can look pretty grim as well.
So it's really really expensive ultimately, as what I'm saying,
and most of us, I would say almost all of
us couldn't afford it. So Jude also sent us an
(23:51):
NPR story from twenty twenty two called millions of disabled
Americans could lose federal benefits if they get married by
Eric Mahoney that pr fashion has a very specific personal
story while also telling like a much larger story in it.
Mahoney interviews Congressman Jimmy Panetta of California, who had recently
(24:11):
introduced the Marriage Equality for Disabled Built Act in the
US House of Representatives. Other states like Ohio and Louisiana
falliwed suit. I feel like all of them have been stalled.
But please let me know if that's not true, and
they dive into how these laws and rules were written.
It was just assumed people with disabilities wouldn't get married,
(24:33):
which is an incredibly ablest idea that we've talked about
before and also holds the kind of infantilizing and desexualizing
of people with disabilities within it, but also a long
history of violence and control. It's also true the idea
used to be that one person, the man in a
(24:55):
very heterosexual sense, was the breadwinner who took care of
the wife, who did all the housekeeping. This is no
longer the case and really not possible for a lot
of people. Almost everyone I know that's in a couple
can only exist based on dual income. It's just really
antiquated and yes, we need to address why single income
(25:17):
homes are so unrealistic now too, and pay people who
take care of kids. Having kids is.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Expensive, right, I think it's just such a weird fault
of like again in a world where our country specifically
is like, we need to care for the children, but
not really few and you take it on your own.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
You're on your own.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
It's gotten like this level of disconnect where you think, well,
now they have children, and you're pushes for more children
to be born because that's your thing.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Apparently, how are you going to help?
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah, And there's like so many things that we've talked
about very briefly or mentioned very briefly in this that
I might well, at the very least, so you could
do something to raise the like our pay what we get.
You could do something to prevent housing and rent going wild,
(26:12):
like so many small things.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
How about what you can do we save the environment
and help the environment so our children don't grow into
this horrible, horrible healthscape with no access to anything because
you know, beaches are being closed off because of bacteria
that's growing because of climate change and pollution.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
We can do about that, y'all.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
But yeah, on top of that, if every child is
special and unique and has all these things, then we
need to treat each child as a special case and
provide exactly what is needed, including whatever medical care they need,
and without grumbling and without fighting and without overcharging.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Mm hmmm, that would be awesome too.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
And here and just like one more reminder here, disability
in this country is expensive and very very expensive. Another
story re read estimated that without Medicaid provided through SSI,
the person in question would have to pay one hundred
thousand to two hundred thousand a year for in home business. Yeah,
(27:12):
that's the number I was looking for, honestly, because fifty
to seventy with Medicaid is pretty generous. I think even
with Medicaid it would probably hit to one hundred thousand
grand a year, especially if it's like in home care
consistent in home care.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
H Yeah, and it depends on so many factors too.
But it's expensive, that we can say for sure. And
(27:51):
going back to another point that you mentioned, Samantha, another
part of this whole thing is this over blown and
politicized fear of fraud that people are essentially trying to
gain the system, and that people with disabilities are lazy
and aren't trustworthy, not worthy honestly, and not only is
(28:13):
that completely wrong, it was clear and doing this research.
As I said, how difficult every step of this is,
from getting the benefits to proving that you need them,
to keeping them right.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Just as a reminder, to lose disability, it doesn't take
anything literally like to like. You have to be so
on top of everything that you may not even get
a notice that you're about to be dropped.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yes, there have been a lot of news stories about
that lately. Here's a quote from Forbes. As disability scholar
Ari Niemann recently noted in a New York Times article
on how benefits are confusing by design, the sheer complexity
of these different rules are, like most disability benefits rules,
kafka esque. Intentionally or not, they further penalize people who
(28:56):
have less access to accurate information and less ability to
strategic plan out their finances and legal arrangements. Because obviously,
if you know about these penalties ahead of time, you
can avoid them by simply not getting married. It's a
terrible position and a gut wrenching decision, as anyone who
is married or has wanted to marry well knows, But
(29:16):
the penalty itself and the supposed savings to the taxpayer
is easily avoided, but it's also easily triggered if the
people involved don't know about it, or if they get
bad advice about it. In a sense, the government hopes
in part to save money by disabled people accidentally triggering
these benefits reductions.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Right again a guy actor where they also hope they
can just kill them off. It's eugenics legitimately any we
can continue on another times. Articles from twenty sixteen quotes
Philip Cohen, a sociologist at the University of Maryland, College Park,
who knows the overall first marriage rate in the United
States from people age eighteen to forty nine is forty
(29:58):
eight point nine per one thousand, for people with disability
is just twenty four point four.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
And yes, as you said, some have even brought up
the dark history of eugenics in this and how this
intentionally or not seems to discourage disabled people from getting married,
which is something many people do before I have kids,
not everybody. It even seems to incentivize divorce, which, when
you put it in context of the whole Christian Conservative
(30:26):
push for the nuclear family, seems a little off something
is not right.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Well, I mean, if we follow along those lines and
we know that it comes from an area and background.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
It makes a lot more sense.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
It's true we laugh because we're in vain, but yeah,
but that's just real.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yeah, yep. And of course there are a lot of
discussions and disagreements around marriage, but for many it does
signify acceptance by society, a legal recognition of commitment, something
someone may have wanted their whole life. And for a
lot of folks, there are substantial government benefits for getting married,
and it seems pretty dub that in this case it's
(31:10):
the opposite. If it's a choice between living and functioning
in marriage, then there's no real choices there. And I
feel like the fact that they have that kind of
holding out for marriage really drives home the point it
doesn't even matter if they think that you're basically a
(31:33):
married couple, then that they're going to take those benefits
away anyway, right.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Literally trying to find any reason to take the benefits away.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah mm hmm uh. And as I said, for some people,
this is yeah, this is life or death. This is right.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
So for a chunk of people, this is life or death.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Like endpoint because as what we've talked about before, and
as been said it stated by many disability activists, being
able bodied is temporary, whether it's age or whatever, whatnot,
being disabled is a reality is going to happen. We
see that again, Like you know, we've talked to you
and I have talked about the fact that our parents
(32:17):
recently had gone to the hospital for different incidents, and
we fear when they fall or when they do something
and are no longer able to care for themselves. The
cost of money just in trying to find in living
care for elderly yeah, is absurd. And if you if
they are not already like provided by Medicare, which is great,
but they're still trying to cut Medicare. We saw that
(32:39):
in the state of Georgia. They're trying to cut Medicare
and trying to reason with my parents about like your
governor has done this, but they don't quite see it.
Like they have come to the realization that Medicare is
allowed for them to go get examinations, which I'm really
glad that they have actually taken the opportunity to use
those benefits, but like trying to remind them to is
(33:00):
very very We're on a very like thin line on.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Whether or not this is going to be accessible in
the future.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Yes, and just to note again I'm not legal experts,
but a lot of this does relate to in the
US when you get like social Security as an older
person as well, so a lot of it does.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Have right, They're all interlocking.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Yeah, it's just please don't look up, do your own research.
I hope this is a good starting off point. But
like we said, it's confusing. It's purposely designed to be confusing,
and it changes often. It changes often, so I believe
the numbers be quoted in this was as of twenty
twenty three or twenty twenty four, so it was a
(33:42):
recent change. But yeah, I'm thank you so much, Jude,
yeah for suggesting this. And if there's anything we got
wrong or could have phrased better, because I was a
little like, wow, us some damnse documentation. Yes, please let
(34:04):
us know. And if there are any resources or if
you have any stories you would like us to share.
I would love to hear from all of you. You
can email us at Stuff Media, moom stuff at iHeartMedia
dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mom
Stuff Podcast. We're also on Instagram and TikTok at stuff
I never told you. We're on YouTube, and we are
(34:24):
on public, and we have a book you can get
wherever you get your books, where we did talk about
some of this stuff in there. Thanks as always to
our super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya, and our
contributor Joey.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Thanks to you for listening stuff I Never told you
This direction of My Heart Radio. For more podcast from
my Heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio
app Apple Podcasts, wherever you listen to your favorite shows
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