September 6, 2024 • 44 mins
Since pretty much ever, we've had the trope of the mean girl. You know her - she's rich, popular, has a group supporting her, and is the foil for the heroine. We trace the history, evolution and changing meaning of the Mean Girl.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Anny and Smantha, and welcome to stuff
I never told you production by.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I hurt you, and we're back with a movie related topic.
I feel like that that's perfect for what I will
say is the beginning of fall. Yes, mainly because it's
(00:29):
actually kind of cool and that has been for the
past couple of days, meaning around sixties or seventies before
like ten.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
So for us, it's huge, huge.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Okay, it's not hit beyond ninety, which is incredible for
the like August and in September. I know everybody's like, what,
but with that just feels like movie season, like when
you get to come in and watch the movies, and
some of these movies since it's like.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
School related, high school related.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Even feels like on topic because yes, all the kids
are back to school and they've been back.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
To school for like a month.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I'm sorry to y'all because that sounds awful and we're
not talking about the movie and I'm about to get
to it. But any I don't think we've actually watched
this for the show, and I'm kind of shocked by that.
I already talked about this yesterday. I had realize we've
never done this as a feminist movie, which is a
shame which I feel like we're gonna have to like
(01:25):
fix soon. But we were talking about the overall trope
of it, and we're talking about the mean girl trope,
and the mean girl trope has many names, and we're
gonna be referencing all the different names, and we will
be cursing a little bit because you know, they don't
like women and oftentimes degrade them in these tropes. We
know this, and I say they as in like filmmakers
(01:47):
and entertainers and all those people. So yes, we'll be
referencing the movie quite a bit, as it obviously has
a big impact.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Seriously, the title of the movie is mean Girl, So yeah,
and uh.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
But first we want to note that mean girls goes
way back, like the actual idea of them, one specifically
noted from Jane Austen's classic Pride and Prejudice, which we
did cover. Hello Caroline Binkley. I feel like she is
an ultimate mean girl. She never does get a redemption
arc either, so the original mean girl. So let's start
(02:24):
with this question, Annie, do you have a favorite mean
girl or like a scenario of mean girls? Oh?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
No, I remember when you suggested this I said, this
is like so out of what I but.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
It's not because horror movies use this trope quite often.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
They do, But I bet I classify it differently than
how I classify a mean girl.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Oh, because I would think bodies, bodies, bodies, mean girl.
But the mean girls there, which is we have that
whole like ousting of friendships and then like calling each
other out for not being around.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
It's kind of this level of mingrel I would say more.
I'm sure I can't think of it in mind.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, Jennifer's Body is actually we're gonna mention that movie
and that is a mean girl movie as well, essentially,
so you know there's more than you think. The mean
girl has had evolution, an essential like growth and up dates.
So with that, that's what we're seeing and a lot
of horror movies, Carrie, I'm mentioning that as well also
has which you.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Have watched that right? Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I keep coming back to all the movies, Like every
time you tell me you haven't watched something, even though
you've already told me this, I'm in shock. But I
will also say I was also in shock when you
do tell me you've watched a movie I'm like, you
have seen that one death becomes her an enigma? You
are death becomes or you have watched that. We haven't
talked about that and those like that's two mean girls,
two alpha girls going after each other, which is even funnier.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
But anyway, I digress.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
There's a lot and I think I'm gonna put a
spoiler here because we are talking a little bit about
one of your favorite movies in Kanto and it's fairly new,
and we do kind of spoil a couple of things,
so FYI, that's coming towards the end.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
So let's begin. What is a main girl exactly?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Here's how Victoria con Leon sorry if I've said that wrong,
describes them for VNHS Mirror dot com. In teen media,
the main girl is typically an antagonistic character, notoriously good
at tormenting.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
The main character.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
These girls are often portrayed as popular, vain, selfish, and manipulative,
always sporting the best style. They come from rich families
with an air of determined self assurance.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
And from a wonderful article written by student Ivy Gen
for their school on Highlight dot Org. Here's how she
explains the mean girl quote. According to online entertainment magazine
The take. The mean girl is confident, cunning, and manipulative.
She often finds entertainment from humiliating others, but is still
seen as charismatic and alluring by her peers. On the surface,
(05:14):
she's the face of power and corruption. She personifies the
status quo of the social hierarchy with a click that
enforces her tyrannical nature.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
What is that movie?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Though, we just watched Where's the Influencer going on the
bachelorette party?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
This is again the mean girl.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
We see like we don't understand why she's mean. I mean,
she was mean from the beginning and pushed heart over
the edge, but it ended up being a horror movie.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yes, again, like, there's so many of these examples. She
has to humiliate her, she has to be right.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
She's the one that has all the money, she does
all the things, buys the nice things.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
This is the mean girl.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
And we'll come back to Ivy's article because she has
a very great insight on the theory on the mean
girl trope and its evolution. And I was so impressed
with her. I think she is her high school newspaper essentially.
It was like, but it's good so I'm gonna use it.
I love it, and her writing was wonderful, So good
on you, Ivy. But first, let's talk about the origins
(06:15):
of the mean girl and how it has been used
throughout our entertainment history and just history in general sociology.
Mean girls have been around for the entirety of the
existence of humans, it has, but the term itself didn't
come around until two thousand and two, when author Rosalind
Wiseman coined the term in her book Queen Bees and Wannabes.
(06:37):
And for a bit of background on that, Wiseman, who
was originally a martial arts teacher, I believe she does
have a degree in political science.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
She taught young women.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
She wrote this book, which pushed her into the world
of being an author and public speaker. And as we
were researching the topic, we didn't exactly find what catapulted
her to that world necessarily, like there wasn't just an
aha moment. But she does often talk about how she
witnessed the constant social cycles within girl circles.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
So here's a bit from her Wikipedia page. So take
this with a green salt.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
After hearing the young girls questions about social issues they
faced and watching them become empowered by martial arts. Wiseman
was inspired to begin working in the youth empowerment and
leadership building. After spending over a decade speaking with girls
about the social issues they face, including boys, clicks, gossip,
social hierarchy, and self image, Wiseman wrote Queen Bees and Wannabes.
(07:35):
The book gives suggestions on how parents can better understand
and help their daughters navigate the social atmosphere of what
Wiseman refers to as quote girl world. Since his release
in two thousand and two, it has become a New
York Times bestseller and was the basis for the two
thousand and four film Mean Girls. And though the actual
(07:55):
trope again has been around forever. So let's just like
we know, we've we know what it is without giving
it me like the name right because you can look
at the movie carry which apparently any hasn't seen, no,
and it is the epitome of mean girls for real
or even children's classics. The parent trap. There's like, even
(08:16):
though they're not truly mean girls, they.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Are mean girls to each other. At first they bully
each other.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I don't understand, although again this falls into the more
lovable misunderstood mean girl trope, which is part of the
evolution of the mean girl that we're going to talk
about later. The term came after the coining within this
self help book. And by the way, the author has
written many more books and including advice for adult mean
girl situations like in the workplace. Also, I believe they
(08:43):
are on the third edition of the original book so
as to keep up with the times and the changes.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yeah, new movie too.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Also, I just realized I've seen the rage carry two.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Just does that make me want to flip the table?
So you need to stop talking.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Because there was a song in there I liked.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
I'll give you that. I'll give you that, Okay. Anyway.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Wiseman often uses titles like Queen Bee and alpha Girls
to categorize the mean girls, and throughout the book and
in her classes and seminars, she's really classified the different types.
In one reference, she would use the term really mean
girls are RMG's as a reference for alpha girls. Here's
a bit from a two thousand and four New York
(09:28):
Times article titled girls Just Want to Be Mean, where
they talk about having an apology day and one of
Weisman's classes quote the girls whom Weisman variously calls the
alpha girls. The RMG's really mean girls are the queen
bees are the ones who are supposed to own up
to having backstabbed or dumped a front, but they are
also the most resistant to the exercise and the most
(09:51):
self justifying. The girls who are their habitual victims or
hangers on. The wannabes and messengers in Weisman's lingo, are
always apologizing anyway.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Right, And within the article they talk a bit more
about Wiseman herself, as well as a great reference to
again one of our favorite Heathers. We've mentioned a lot
of movies in here that we have watched.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Yeah, so you know, just listen to for those. Here's
a quote.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Wiseman, who is thirty two and hip and girlish herself,
has taught this class at many different schools, and it's
fair to say that although she loves girls, she does
not cling to sentimental notions about them. She is a feminist,
but not the sort likely to ascribe greater inherent compassion
to women or girls as a group than two men
(10:38):
or boys.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
More.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Her style is the analysis of the feminist historian Elizabeth
Fox Genoviz, who has observed that quote, those who have
experienced dismissal by that junior high school girls clique could
hardly with a straight face claim generosity and nurture as
a natural attribute of women.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Together.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Weiseman and I once watched the movie Heathers, the nineteen
eighty nine black comedy about a triad of vicious queen
bees who got their come uppance, and she found it
quote pretty true to life. The line uttered by Winona
Writer as Veronica, the disaffected non Heather of the group,
struck her as particularly apt. I don't really like my friends.
(11:17):
It's just like there are people I work with and
our job is being popular.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
And the article gives a bit more factual context on
the mean girls and why we may have been inundated
with so much mean girl content in the nineties and
two thousands. Quote. This focus on the cruelty of girls is,
of course something new. For years, psychologists who study aggression
among school children looked only at its physical and overt
manifestations and concluded that girls were less aggressive than boys.
(11:44):
That consensus began to change in the early nineties after
a team of researchers led by a Finnish professor named
kaj Yorquist started interviewing eleven and twelve year old girls
about their behavior toward one another. The team's conclusion was
that the girls were in fact just as aggressive as boys,
though in a different way. They were not as likely
to engage in physical fights, for example, but their superior
(12:07):
social intelligence enabled them to wage complicated battles with other
girls aimed at damaging relationships or reputations, leaving nasty messages
by cell phone or spreading scurrilous rumors by email, making
friends with one girl as revenge against another, gossiping about
someone just loudly enough to be overheard. Turning the notion
of women's greater empathy on its head byor quests focused
(12:29):
on the destructive uses to which such emotional attunement could
be put. Girls can better understand how other girls feel,
as he puts it, so they know better how to
harm them.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I will say that just triggered me to a middle
school incident on the playground or friends where we were
separated and one person wasn't invited.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
To a birthday party. Oh, just like I had that moment.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Jeez, So I'm not completely wrong about this whole That
was always a girl's girl, if you did something wrong,
I was like mad at you, like if you did
something really wrong.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
But outside of that, Nah, but yeah, I just had
this moment wow or Maria, Sorry Maria. So the article
goes on to highlight other studies that came soon after.
Here's something that was written in relation to Rachel Simmons'
work titled Odd Girl Out The Hidden Culture of Aggression
and Girls. In her book The twenty seven year Old,
(13:30):
Simmons offers a plaintive definition of a relational aggression. Unlike
boys who tend to bully acquaintances or strangers, girls frequently
attack within tightly knit friendship networks, making aggression harder to
identify and intensify the damage to the victims. Within the
hidden culture of aggression, girls fight with body language and
(13:50):
relationships instead of fists and knives. In this world, friendship
is a weapon, and the sting of a shout peals
in comparison to a day of someone's silence. No gesture
more devastating than back turning away. Now, Simonist insists, is
the time to pull up the rock and really look
at this seeding underside of American girlhood beneath a facade
(14:11):
of female intimacy, she writes, lies a terrain traveled in secret,
marked with anguish and nourished by silence.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
She's not completely wrong.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, and again this.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Kind of also reminds me of a New Girl episode
where the two jests and CEC don't talk to each other, like,
they don't actually fight, but they do passive aggressive things,
but they know they're in a fight, and no one
else knows that they're in a fight, right, And then
when they actually get physical with each other, they feel
better and you screamed at each other, they released it
(14:46):
all and their friends again.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
But I'm like, that doesn't typically happen.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
When that happens, friendship usically just over right by that
point anyway. And though it isn't mentioned in the article
about how the patriarchy and misogyny are big influences within
this relative aggression that they have termed this type of actions,
they do go on to look into other ages and
(15:10):
emotional factors for the reactions. And I don't think we're
the only ones who thought about this. Here's another quote
from the CEC online dot Com article. It says, to
get into the discourse of it all, the popular mean
girl trope is a caricature feeling internalized misogyny in all
of us. Ironically, she's often written by men. As much
(15:31):
as we know that she is an exaggerated and unrealistic
movie character, she's so ingrained in our minds that it
feels like surely some of her must be real and
must be present in real women. Hollywood has pulled this
long con on us over decades in an act of
what we would now call next level gaslighting. This archetype
made us feel bad for not being unrealistically beautiful, rich,
(15:54):
or thin. But more than that, did it encourage an
era of bullying that caused more damage than anyone could
have expected. These movies told us that being mean is
what made you popular. We can't help but wonder what
this did for the psyche of teenagers growing up. So
just coupling the two ideas about, okay, this is how
you win a war is by being mean to a group,
(16:15):
like gaging up on someone, versus also seeing that in
Hollywood films, as well as not realizing this is only
helping one set of peoples and it's not women or
marginalized peoples. But I found that very interesting that none
of the earlier works really talks about it. I also
want to go ahead and talk about the fact the
(16:36):
way they describe Wiseman's feminism as very like low key,
almost to the point of saying I'm not feminists, but
type of conversation I was like, oh okay, oh okay. However,
Wiseman did continue to make additions to keep up with
the changes of the times. So what we were talking
about when we were talking about her theories was the
(16:58):
two thousand and four edition and the self helpic did
have an impact again in the trope itself, literally being
the reason that the movie Mean Girls was even thought
of by Tina Fey, who actually did consult a bit
with Wiseman. I don't know though, if she took a
(17:20):
lot of that advice Tina Fey. I think she took
a lot of stuff out and did her own thing.
Did talk to Wiseman, but kind of like just okay, cool, thanks,
type of situations.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah, from what I've read, I don't think she likes
a new version.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
That's what that's why, just just just the just the
quick kess of I've not seen that. With that background,
let's talk about the Mean Girls the main inspiration actually
(17:55):
comes from the classic Heathers. Uh. Yes, we did this
feature as one of our first movies. I remember it well,
being on your beach house watching it on your small TV. Yeah,
because you had bought it from me on DVD, and
I'm like, yes, let's do this. But like we said before,
the mean girls have been around way before this, but
(18:17):
this was kind of the quintessential beginning. And again what
Wiseman took as examples, but like, yeah, they're the fairy tale.
Cinderella is about meingirls, her wicked stepsisters and her mother. Yeah, hey,
meanirl theme. They were real mean to her, but she,
you know, succeeded without them, and they just there's different
versions of what happens to them, but it's not nice.
(18:38):
But Heathers, yes, as a staple when it comes to
the best example. Here's a bit from the teenmagazine dot
com about meingirls. I can't talk about the mean girl
trope without first mentioning Heathers, the nineteen eighty nine cult
classic that simultaneously became the blueprint for the archetype and
defied the somewhat sexist expectations of teenage girls. Heathers show
(18:59):
the consequence this is not just of mean girls' actions themselves,
but of societal misunderstanding of teens and angst, while poking
fun of the characters and the subject matter with hilarious
self awareness.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
So in the typical story, we have a girl often
seen as innocent or an outsider, are both, who are
pitted against another girl and her posse. This posse is
seen as popular and cool, and they dictate the social
hierarchy in their territory. And again with another reference to
the Heathers, hears a bit more about the leader, or
(19:32):
as Wiseman may call her, the Alpha from that CEC
Online article quote. We know her so well. She's gorgeous,
she's wealthy, she's smart, she drives boys crazy, and above all,
she's the absolute worst. She's the popular mean girl in
every teen movie we grew up watching, and she's completely
made up. Despite her not existing, this archetype has stuck
(19:54):
around for decades, still being used today in movies, series
and reality TV, so implanted in our minds that we're
convinced that her real life incarnation must be out there
somewhere waiting to pounce and make us feel bad. Despite feminism,
pop culture and representation making so many progressive strides. Why
(20:14):
is the popular mean girl so indelible and why the
hell was she created in the first place. What is
it that makes this character so quintessentially her? She's stereotypically beautiful,
of course, but she's also really mean. From one of
her first iterations embodied by Heather Chandler and Heathers to
Chanelle number one in screen Queens, she's tall, skinny, white,
(20:36):
and she has Salan quality hairstyling every day despite being
in high school. She's also always rich, and not in
a quiet luxury kind of way. We'll see ostentatious shots
of her family's massive suburban house, her fancy car, often
convertible sports cars it was the nineties, her huge bedroom
in bed, and most obviously, her incredible wardrobe.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Right, And we're not really talking about the depth of
how most of the mean girls at the beginning were
white and very rich and very sexual or seen as
very sexual. We're not really talking about that part at
this point.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
We should.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
I think I've just ran at it with time or
so we'll come back to that maybe at a different
point when we talk about other tropes. I'm sure, but yeah,
that is something to be seen, although there is conversations
about how more and more people of color have been
put as the mean girls. Asian girls I've seen as
(21:34):
being put in this as the mean girl, rich, small,
all those things and sexually active obviously, and it seems
like that's kind of the filler, like, oh, you want
more people of color.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
We'll put them in this role. Then it will shake
it up.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
And yeah, just for fun, because I love it, We're
gonna talk a little bit more about the Heathers and
really how it brought into in an age and generation
of mean girls and again their importance.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
And this is from gain.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Rent, though it has appeared in many, many iterations since.
The earliest example of mean girl tropes as we know
it today it came from the nineteen eighty eight movies
or nineteen eighty nine Heathers. Heathers had had a sort
of renaissance lately because of the surging popularity of the
musical adaptation, but the original movie was kind of a
(22:20):
cult classic for a long time. The mean girls in
questions are the Heathers themselves, three teenage girls all named
Heather who ruled the school as a group Heather Chandler
is the head and is the ultimate pinnacle of the
mean girl, so much so that basically everyone who came
after was based on this model. She, along with other girls,
(22:40):
is fundamentally motivated by status in social hierarchy, whether that's
gaining it or maintaining the capital she already has. That's
kind of the definition of the mean girl. She's confident, ambitious,
and cunning, but she uses these traits to uphold power
and manipulate others into doing her bidding, thereby keeping her
as the bee. Is also important to the trope that
(23:03):
other people want to be her, and Heather Chandler's social
status is so coveted by others that it literally has
deadly consequences in the stories and oftentimes in horror stories. Interestingly,
some would call the mean girl trope the Heather trope.
Like I was like, oh yeah, that makes sense. According
to an article titled the Heather Trope?
Speaker 3 (23:23):
What is it?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
And how do you write this character? We're not giving
you advice how to write, by the way, just talk
about head apart they write. A Heather is a character
trope that describes the popular person of the high school. Typically,
a Heather is a female character who is traditionally beautiful
and is desired by both men and women. A character
who falls into the heather trope is often complex and
(23:44):
driven by desire to keep up a well manicured appearance.
Similar to the mean girl, the Heather can come off
as a mean spirited even if they're trying to be nice.
This is due to the audience's perception of these types
of characters, which leads to a later understanding of the
characters complexities that make them feel the need to appear
(24:05):
a certain way.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
And it continues quote. The heather trope appeals to the
female desire to be understood and accepted as they are,
rather than what they appear to be. It is a
trope that can often be misunderstood and misrepresented, creating a
character that is mean just because they're pretty.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
So yeah, it's a little bit different in the wanting
to be accepted part. They actually go on to use
Dinnifer from Jennifer's Body Again, we watched that one too
as an example of this and also as an example
of taking down the patriarchy.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
So they use the mean girl trope to take down
the man. I'm like, okay, that's that's that's.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
An appropriate way. Yeah, I approve it this way, so
I'm definitely the feminist that the other articles referring. Now,
one of the things we didn't talk about with Weisman's
books and classes is her breakdown of these groups, which
is often seen again within like Heathers and Mean Girls
and other classic films. But it is understood that part
(25:01):
of the downfall and the catalyst within the mean Girl
slash girls trope as the battle to become the RMG
or the alpha. And I love that this word was
in usage for mean Girls and now have become more
popular for like the referencing on a strong male leader.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
But back to the GameRant dot com article, they continue
to break down how the group is seen within different movies.
Quote Heather's itself is a satire and more of an
indictment on society for forcing young girls to get to
this point more than anything else, but the fundamental tropes
it presented became staples of ten movies into the nineties
and two thousands. Mean Girls presented a more modern version
(25:44):
of the trio from Heathers from the head mean girl
Heather Chandler and Regina George to the jealous Lackey Heather
Duke and Gretchen Wieners to the dumb one who might
secretly be the nicest of the trio, Heather McNamara and
Karen Smith. The bearz of the plot of Mean Girls
is similar to Heathers as well. The protagonists Veronica Slash
(26:05):
Katie befriends the popular girls and thinks they've cracked the
code of social status, only to find that the world
of the mean Girl is much darker than they thought,
and they don't like how it changes them.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yes, after they get called out, of course, So the
RMG or the Alpha or alpha because a lot of
them call them the Alpha or Queen B is the
antagonist and I'm saying this with a capital A. The
antagonist and is the epitome of power or of evil
or both. And here's a bit from TV tropes dot org.
(26:39):
The Alpha is living, breathing evidence that popular is evil,
from stealing your crush to humiliating you in front of
the whole school. There is no low she won't stoop
to in order to oppress her dorky classmates and assert
herself as the queen. She will often win Homecoming Queen
or prom Queen in a landslide vote or not, that's
(27:00):
their takedown, and oftentimes she's the authority of the cheerleading
squad and decides who's on and off the squad. After all,
who needs a coach?
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Hello'e bring it on.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
And they continue quote. She's also usually the sign of
a wealthy and influential family, the star of the school
or head sister of the influential college sorority house, thus
providing her a network of local celebrity, influence and wealth
to exploit. She's also quite the seductress, even going so
far as to bear her midriff as a method of intimidation,
(27:32):
and consequently all the boys fight amongst themselves, sometimes literally,
to be her oppressed boyfriend. And to top it off,
she's also very good looking. All this leaves her with
the belief that she can do whatever she likes without consequences. Unfortunately,
she's often right. The powers that be are not immune
to her family's wealth, connections and influence, and they can
(27:55):
and will be corrupted or coerced into overlooking her bad behavior.
Her natural enemy is the loser heroine. Whenever their eternal
jealousy fueld struggle over possessions, boyfriends, and status is sparked,
aew quarter will neither be asked for nor given.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
So with all those details, we have to ask, why
does the mean girl trope work and has it grown
with the times. Maybe it's not the fact that it worked,
but with a sense of entertainment and foretales like Cinderella,
Heathers and Carrie.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
More of it's about justice.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Like having the deadly ending that brings a bit of
satisfaction in the story that that vengeance, And as the
time has changed, we see a bit of a shift
into the lovable alpha or the reginas who's able to
release their anger and finally be themselves.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah yeah, here's some thoughts on the mean girl and
what we as a society may see about them. From
Women's Republic dot net quote. Contrary to her male counterpart,
the jock bully, who is usually dumb and lacks a
promising future, the mean girl is full of potential. She
believes herself and is aware of her own intelligence. Her
(29:02):
personality drives these positive characteristics to a hyper competitive extreme
and makes her a skilled, yet cruel and devious ruler.
The core of the mean girl's character is often deep
insecurity and anger. She is guided by her rage and
her cynical and deep understanding of the world. Rachel mcadam's
portrayal of Regina George captures this eloquently in Regina's meltdown
(29:24):
after finding out that Katie was deceiving her all along,
or in the regular rude outburst she has towards her mom.
The mean girl is really just an angry girl in
need of boundaries and guidance. Unable to deal with her emotion,
she projects her anger into selfishness and protects herself from
the outside world, climbing the social hierarchy. The mean girl
is well aware of how society works. Instead of fighting
(29:46):
these structures, she upholds them because at least that way
she can end up on top.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Right and the writer goes into more detail of what
makes a good mean girl. She writes, a successful portrayal
of Meingirlo trope should include a motive to the meanness.
Sharpey Evans wanted to start on Broadway. Regina George was
addicted to the power of being influential and saw her
own self worth in popularity. Blair Waldorf relied on her
status to achieve her dreams. The mean girl needs a
(30:14):
backstory to make her authentic. Explaining her behavior simply on
the basis of her gender is sexist and unsatisfying. Her
life also isn't all is cut out to be. Regina
George is on a constant diet to maintain her figure.
Cheryl Blossom lost her brother and closest friend, Rosalie hale
A Low Twilight hates being a vampire the foundation of
(30:35):
her existence. The mean girl is smart, she has a
signature look, and most importantly, she exues desirability on several levels,
which remains even after her downfall. So we know that
we have to have mean girls for some of these
movies and hopefully they come back together with like, oh
it wasn't a competition hopefully or you know, taking down Man.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
One of those.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
So the mean girl must be the feminine representation as well.
So here's some interesting thoughts from Madison Huizinga, I'm so
sorry if I said that wrong, and what she wrote
in her substack about mean girls. So mingirl is always
hyper feminine. She embodies feminine stereotypes on steroids, immaculate faces
of ultra glamorous makeup, victorious secret push up bras, be
(31:23):
dazzled notebooks, luscious waterfalls of the care, manicured nails, and
an undying obsession with fashion. Mean girls of the nineties
and early two thousands looked like they got caught in
a Claire's thunderstorm, followed by a limited to tornado.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
What a reference? What a reference? And she continues in
her writing quote, the cookie cutter characterization of a hyper
feminine mean girl and an unfeminine protagonist is not an accident.
There's a reason why this formula has thrived for decades,
the same reason why young boys are reprimanded for preferring
to play with dolls and wear skirts, while young girls
are more often praised for not being afraid to get dirty,
(32:01):
playing in the mud, and stuck with the label tomboy.
In a patriarchal society, femininity is viewed at best as
acute deficiency and at worst as evil. Obviously, America has
moved past witch trials, yet the disdain for femininity persists
in slighter ways, less boisterous, but loud enough to permeate
(32:22):
the consciousness of media consumers of all genders. Four years teen,
rom coms have disseminated the message that if girls want
to be viewed as intelligent, interesting and in the end
worthy of an equally smart and steady boyfriend. They ultimately
need to abandon their overly feminine qualities. Eliminate your vocal fry,
wipe off the lip gloss, Prove that you're the exception,
(32:45):
the brilliant needle in the haystack of ditsy girlishness to
be seen as having any kind of substance. Prove you're
not like most girls. To prove your significance.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Right, and it isn't too surprising to know that it
is the opposits that have to fight that the enemy
would be the outsider. We would add to that the
layers of makeover tropes, the betting trope. You know, dude
will definitely have sex with the unpopular girl who was
hot all along, but they don't have sex, and instead
he the dude, gets a redemption arc because at the
last minute he decided that's not a nice idea. But
(33:20):
even without those types of tropes, we would still have
the pretty girl versus the not as pretty girl, or
so we're told that, you know, her curly hair makes
her unpretty?
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Or glasses am I right? Am I right?
Speaker 1 (33:35):
As Huizinga writes quote, and somehow the pendulum manages to
swing to the other extreme, too, conceiving a swarm of
opposing but related identity issues. If girls don't conventionally groom
or adorn themselves like the stereotypical woman, if they abandon makeup,
long hair, and dresses, they're often seen as less of
a girl. Sometimes they're asked if they are even girls
(33:56):
at all. As conceptions of gender are inextricably tough, hied
up with appearances, and so a balancing act fit for
the circus emerges. Girls quickly learn to be tightrope walkers,
walking the fine line between being a socially acceptable, conventionally
attractive woman, but not being so girlish that they're seen
as stupid, unserious, or caddy, perhaps also while trying to
(34:19):
figure out the person they want to be for themselves,
apart from the media influence, if that's even possible to discern.
The stress of this balancing act bolsters an already thriving
culture of competition among women. When the patriarchy only allows
a small fixed number of pedestals of power for women,
they must fight each other for them, leading to a
(34:40):
flourishing cesspool of internalized misogyny. Rather than targeting this energy
towards dismantling the patriarchy, the source of this issue. Girls
express hatred toward other girls, their designated opponents. Instead of
using some of this energy to uplift other girls, they
direct it towards trying to be the exception to It's
a cure, a spot on the prize pedestal, be it
(35:02):
a gateway to a higher pinging job, a boyfriend, or
just healthy self worse.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Right, And I feel like she kind of took what
we were saying at the beginning. How we didn't. No
one was addressing that part.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Everybody was just addressing, Oh, mean girls could be mean
they can.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
We understand this, But why in this scenario?
Speaker 2 (35:22):
And yes, the usage of mean girl to propel the
narrative that women can't be friends is not something new
in the foil. Not like most girls, Trope is placed
to make sure that the friendship seems near and possible.
Huizinga devines this. Not like most girls, Trope as the
protagonist in our story. Unlike mean girls, she is pleasant
(35:44):
and shows compassion to friends and strangers. She is often
smart or talented in some secretive way, perhaps notably bookish, artistic,
or athletic. When one of these hidden talents is uncovers,
she peaks the interest of another prominent character, typically the
attractive boyfriend and of the mean girl, or at least
the interest strikingly not like most girls, defining uh stable
(36:07):
trait is the complete opposite of the mean girls. She
is decidedly not feminine. She either subtly dresses more plain
and boyish than the mean girl, more pants less pink,
or downright rejects fashion and makeup altogether, deeming it unnecessary
or trivial. Her hair is either thrown up in a
practical ponytail or stuffed into a knotted bundle atop her
(36:28):
scalp rather than holding a handbag. She can be found
roaming the hallways with her nose stuck in a book,
clumsily bumping into fellows students. Yeah, this is uh, she's
she's all that, for sure, you've never seen that. I
don't think you're missing much on that one.
Speaker 5 (36:46):
But like glasses, like the Hollywood movie, the glasses, the overalls,
her hiding and like like and then her Uh.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I want to say, they're implying that he he's autistic, brother,
but I don't think he is. I can't figure out
what they're because he's He rollers skates and decides to
put pepper on everybody's lunch and people make fun of him.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
I don't know, but yes, that's that one. But yeah, okay,
I still I do.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
The usher scene, the dance, the bad dance scenes. What
pops into my head. This has become the age of
women supporting women, and so the idea of mean girls
have had to catch up to us essentially, and since
(37:36):
then we've had that big conversation with mean girls asking
are you okay? No, really, are you okay? You know,
truly trying to get to the bottom.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Many would argue that the mean girl isn't actually mean,
but angry and misunderstood. In fact, going back to the
student we mentioned Avy Jen who wrote about mean girls,
she talks about the empowerment in evolving a female anger quote.
Not only are emotion expressed through behind the scenes manipulation,
but oftentimes violent passion. Regina George's outbursts and the conclusion
(38:06):
of mean Girls exemplified this. A woman can rage over
reputation and money, exemplified by the character Runata Kline and
Big Little Eyes, showing that these outbursts may be a
last resort for women to achieve what they covet. The
mean girl's trope to me is not about a character's personality, privilege,
or materialistic tendencies, but rather the individual and societal factors
(38:28):
behind a character's actions, words, or emotion.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
And she isn't the only one who sees the evolution
of a mean girl. Perhaps they would call it an
update of it, maybe not. Gweta writes in her twenty
twenty four movie Web article. The importance here is that
the trope has gotten a touch up, growing from the
self centered young woman who does not have much of
a reason to be as hateful as she is to
a young woman who has dealt with her own hardships
and feels that she is justified in how she reacts
(38:53):
to things. This may not seem like a huge shift
on the outside, but it really is. When keeping the
character up to date, girls are becoming more complex and
relatable in the sense that audiences can sympathize with what
they've been through, even if they do not fully condone
how the young women handle things. In the present, the
trope is still at the forefront of many teen movies
(39:13):
and shows, and a lot of the time, they receive
the spotlight to show how no one can really be
considered quote good or bad. There is a gray middle
ground where this trope now resides. With this shift in
this trope, they are able to fall in love, have
genuine friends who do not stick with them due to
their status, and become someone who is actually likable.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
This is a.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Positive change to the formerly shallow trope, and we cannot
wait to see what becomes of it in the future.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Or we have movies that break the stereotype pretty early on,
such as inn Encanto as the latter days. Sat geeks
dot com article writes about the sisters Mirabella and Isabella,
who seem to have nothing in common and Mirabell seeing
Isabella as the standard of the perfect, powerful daughter, but
we quickly learn that isn't the case. Here's a quote.
(40:00):
The room is covered in flower blossoms and Isabella's bed
is suspended from the ceiling by vines. She controls. It's
the girliest thing since the original My Little Pony series,
only somehow less subtle. She tries to throw Mirabel out
via vines when Mirabel starts challenging her about being perfect,
temporarily giving up on the hug my sister to save
the family plan. It's when Isabella starts to truly get mad,
(40:23):
not flippantly annoyed, but actually mad that she accidentally makes
a cactus. The two sisters look surprised at the spiny
addition to the room, and then Isabella breaks out into song.
Apparently with all her power, all she'd ever done was
make flowers and vines grow. She had no idea she
could affect other plants or make something that's not a
traditionally pretty flower. This is where the mean girl trope
(40:45):
spins on its head when we get insight into Isabella's
so called perfection. She feels like she has to be
because that's what's best for the family right.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
And here we don't see the mean girl trope being
used as the antagonist, but more of the revelation for
both the hero in her family to a problem that
has to be solved in order to save all of them.
And as the article continues once again, and Kanto flips
this trope over by having Isabella conjure plants with colorful pollen,
which he then voluntarily gets on her clothes and her hair,
(41:16):
ruining her pretty pink dress. In the end of the song,
her and Mirabel are covered in color from the plants,
a complete mess and smiling happily. The sisters finally embrace
in the mess they've made, allowing each other to be
their imperfect cells and loving each other for it instead
of in spite of it. Isabella ruining her dress on
purpose shows her breakneck growth as a character. She's not
(41:37):
trying to be perfect and is now embracing all the imperfections,
which allows her to have a relationship with her sister,
who is considered the black sheep of the family. So
a great example of what can be done and why
it's necessary for the plot without making it sexist and gross,
and as Aditi Marty writes in her article tie, can
(42:00):
we move on from the mean girl trope? As a
depiction of hyper competitiveness between women in this swaddle dot
com quote, waves of feminists have attempted to discern and
work towards why women compete with each other and how
they can work together instead. Their work ranges from the
shine theory, which posits women's ability to befriend and learn
from other women, to upholding kindness as a deeply underrated
(42:22):
feminist way of life. This work is both possible and
shows gradual results because they consider women's hyper aggressiveness and
competition as a reaction to societal forces rather than innate.
This shift has yielded results. Mean girls on screen now
come with nuance, background stories and motivations because the audience
will simply not accept women are caddy negative, preppy and
(42:45):
competitive female characters now come with backstories. Cheryl Blossom and
Riverdale are friendless for their competitive nature. Sharpey evans in
high school musical and are often redeemed as worthy of love.
Again Rosalie Hill Twilight Series. I love it, and you
know what, I think it's working. I think this kind
of ideal is working in the fact that the audience
(43:06):
is demanding more because again there's great films in children's
movies like Encanto that bring a different level to the trope,
which does uphold kindness as they write. But yes, there
is a lot to be said about the evolution of
the mean girl and a lot of work to be
done again, like the whole sexual like the mean girl
needs to be sexual experience and sexual as a part
(43:28):
of being cool. Interesting way of going and I know
there are a lot that we may not have tackled,
and there are so many other references we haven't touched on,
but it is interesting to see how these dated tropes
have evolved as time passes, and hopefully here's to see
more encouraging adaptations of the mean girl, which honestly probably
should be renamed by now, but they you know whatever.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Yeah, I do think it's interesting that because women are
so expected to be so nice that mean girls have
a lot of fans at a lot of the more
recent one and have a lot of fans.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
And we didn't really go into the queer Yeah, heard
of it again, ran out of time because I feel
like that might be just a Monday mini honest.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Well, something to look forward to. So much to touch
on here, but what listeners, We would love to hear
your favorite examples, yeah, yes, or your thoughts about this.
You can email us at Stuff India Mom, stuff at
iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter at
most of podcasts, on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I've
Never told you. We're also on YouTube. We have a
(44:30):
tea public store, and we have a book you can
get wherever you get your books things as always too,
our super producer, Christina executive producer My and our contributor Joey.
Thank you, yes, and thanks to you for listening. Stuff
I've Never Told You is production of iHeartRadio. For more
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heart Radio app, I Have a Podcast, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, this is Anny and Smantha, and welcome to stuff
I never told you production by.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I hurt you, and we're back with a movie related topic.
I feel like that that's perfect for what I will
say is the beginning of fall. Yes, mainly because it's
(00:29):
actually kind of cool and that has been for the
past couple of days, meaning around sixties or seventies before
like ten.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
So for us, it's huge, huge.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Okay, it's not hit beyond ninety, which is incredible for
the like August and in September. I know everybody's like, what,
but with that just feels like movie season, like when
you get to come in and watch the movies, and
some of these movies since it's like.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
School related, high school related.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Even feels like on topic because yes, all the kids
are back to school and they've been back.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
To school for like a month.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I'm sorry to y'all because that sounds awful and we're
not talking about the movie and I'm about to get
to it. But any I don't think we've actually watched
this for the show, and I'm kind of shocked by that.
I already talked about this yesterday. I had realize we've
never done this as a feminist movie, which is a
shame which I feel like we're gonna have to like
(01:25):
fix soon. But we were talking about the overall trope
of it, and we're talking about the mean girl trope,
and the mean girl trope has many names, and we're
gonna be referencing all the different names, and we will
be cursing a little bit because you know, they don't
like women and oftentimes degrade them in these tropes. We
know this, and I say they as in like filmmakers
(01:47):
and entertainers and all those people. So yes, we'll be
referencing the movie quite a bit, as it obviously has
a big impact.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Seriously, the title of the movie is mean Girl, So yeah,
and uh.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
But first we want to note that mean girls goes
way back, like the actual idea of them, one specifically
noted from Jane Austen's classic Pride and Prejudice, which we
did cover. Hello Caroline Binkley. I feel like she is
an ultimate mean girl. She never does get a redemption
arc either, so the original mean girl. So let's start
(02:24):
with this question, Annie, do you have a favorite mean
girl or like a scenario of mean girls? Oh?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
No, I remember when you suggested this I said, this
is like so out of what I but.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
It's not because horror movies use this trope quite often.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
They do, But I bet I classify it differently than
how I classify a mean girl.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Oh, because I would think bodies, bodies, bodies, mean girl.
But the mean girls there, which is we have that
whole like ousting of friendships and then like calling each
other out for not being around.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
It's kind of this level of mingrel I would say more.
I'm sure I can't think of it in mind.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, Jennifer's Body is actually we're gonna mention that movie
and that is a mean girl movie as well, essentially,
so you know there's more than you think. The mean
girl has had evolution, an essential like growth and up dates.
So with that, that's what we're seeing and a lot
of horror movies, Carrie, I'm mentioning that as well also
has which you.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Have watched that right? Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I keep coming back to all the movies, Like every
time you tell me you haven't watched something, even though
you've already told me this, I'm in shock. But I
will also say I was also in shock when you
do tell me you've watched a movie I'm like, you
have seen that one death becomes her an enigma? You
are death becomes or you have watched that. We haven't
talked about that and those like that's two mean girls,
two alpha girls going after each other, which is even funnier.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
But anyway, I digress.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
There's a lot and I think I'm gonna put a
spoiler here because we are talking a little bit about
one of your favorite movies in Kanto and it's fairly new,
and we do kind of spoil a couple of things,
so FYI, that's coming towards the end.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
So let's begin. What is a main girl exactly?
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Here's how Victoria con Leon sorry if I've said that wrong,
describes them for VNHS Mirror dot com. In teen media,
the main girl is typically an antagonistic character, notoriously good
at tormenting.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
The main character.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
These girls are often portrayed as popular, vain, selfish, and manipulative,
always sporting the best style. They come from rich families
with an air of determined self assurance.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
And from a wonderful article written by student Ivy Gen
for their school on Highlight dot Org. Here's how she
explains the mean girl quote. According to online entertainment magazine
The take. The mean girl is confident, cunning, and manipulative.
She often finds entertainment from humiliating others, but is still
seen as charismatic and alluring by her peers. On the surface,
(05:14):
she's the face of power and corruption. She personifies the
status quo of the social hierarchy with a click that
enforces her tyrannical nature.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
What is that movie?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Though, we just watched Where's the Influencer going on the
bachelorette party?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
This is again the mean girl.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
We see like we don't understand why she's mean. I mean,
she was mean from the beginning and pushed heart over
the edge, but it ended up being a horror movie.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yes, again, like, there's so many of these examples. She
has to humiliate her, she has to be right.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
She's the one that has all the money, she does
all the things, buys the nice things.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
This is the mean girl.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
And we'll come back to Ivy's article because she has
a very great insight on the theory on the mean
girl trope and its evolution. And I was so impressed
with her. I think she is her high school newspaper essentially.
It was like, but it's good so I'm gonna use it.
I love it, and her writing was wonderful, So good
on you, Ivy. But first, let's talk about the origins
(06:15):
of the mean girl and how it has been used
throughout our entertainment history and just history in general sociology.
Mean girls have been around for the entirety of the
existence of humans, it has, but the term itself didn't
come around until two thousand and two, when author Rosalind
Wiseman coined the term in her book Queen Bees and Wannabes.
(06:37):
And for a bit of background on that, Wiseman, who
was originally a martial arts teacher, I believe she does
have a degree in political science.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
She taught young women.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
She wrote this book, which pushed her into the world
of being an author and public speaker. And as we
were researching the topic, we didn't exactly find what catapulted
her to that world necessarily, like there wasn't just an
aha moment. But she does often talk about how she
witnessed the constant social cycles within girl circles.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
So here's a bit from her Wikipedia page. So take
this with a green salt.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
After hearing the young girls questions about social issues they
faced and watching them become empowered by martial arts. Wiseman
was inspired to begin working in the youth empowerment and
leadership building. After spending over a decade speaking with girls
about the social issues they face, including boys, clicks, gossip,
social hierarchy, and self image, Wiseman wrote Queen Bees and Wannabes.
(07:35):
The book gives suggestions on how parents can better understand
and help their daughters navigate the social atmosphere of what
Wiseman refers to as quote girl world. Since his release
in two thousand and two, it has become a New
York Times bestseller and was the basis for the two
thousand and four film Mean Girls. And though the actual
(07:55):
trope again has been around forever. So let's just like
we know, we've we know what it is without giving
it me like the name right because you can look
at the movie carry which apparently any hasn't seen, no,
and it is the epitome of mean girls for real
or even children's classics. The parent trap. There's like, even
(08:16):
though they're not truly mean girls, they.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Are mean girls to each other. At first they bully
each other.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I don't understand, although again this falls into the more
lovable misunderstood mean girl trope, which is part of the
evolution of the mean girl that we're going to talk
about later. The term came after the coining within this
self help book. And by the way, the author has
written many more books and including advice for adult mean
girl situations like in the workplace. Also, I believe they
(08:43):
are on the third edition of the original book so
as to keep up with the times and the changes.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yeah, new movie too.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Also, I just realized I've seen the rage carry two.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Just does that make me want to flip the table?
So you need to stop talking.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Because there was a song in there I liked.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
I'll give you that. I'll give you that, Okay. Anyway.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Wiseman often uses titles like Queen Bee and alpha Girls
to categorize the mean girls, and throughout the book and
in her classes and seminars, she's really classified the different types.
In one reference, she would use the term really mean
girls are RMG's as a reference for alpha girls. Here's
a bit from a two thousand and four New York
(09:28):
Times article titled girls Just Want to Be Mean, where
they talk about having an apology day and one of
Weisman's classes quote the girls whom Weisman variously calls the
alpha girls. The RMG's really mean girls are the queen
bees are the ones who are supposed to own up
to having backstabbed or dumped a front, but they are
also the most resistant to the exercise and the most
(09:51):
self justifying. The girls who are their habitual victims or
hangers on. The wannabes and messengers in Weisman's lingo, are
always apologizing anyway.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Right, And within the article they talk a bit more
about Wiseman herself, as well as a great reference to
again one of our favorite Heathers. We've mentioned a lot
of movies in here that we have watched.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Yeah, so you know, just listen to for those. Here's
a quote.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Wiseman, who is thirty two and hip and girlish herself,
has taught this class at many different schools, and it's
fair to say that although she loves girls, she does
not cling to sentimental notions about them. She is a feminist,
but not the sort likely to ascribe greater inherent compassion
to women or girls as a group than two men
(10:38):
or boys.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
More.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Her style is the analysis of the feminist historian Elizabeth
Fox Genoviz, who has observed that quote, those who have
experienced dismissal by that junior high school girls clique could
hardly with a straight face claim generosity and nurture as
a natural attribute of women.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Together.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Weiseman and I once watched the movie Heathers, the nineteen
eighty nine black comedy about a triad of vicious queen
bees who got their come uppance, and she found it
quote pretty true to life. The line uttered by Winona
Writer as Veronica, the disaffected non Heather of the group,
struck her as particularly apt. I don't really like my friends.
(11:17):
It's just like there are people I work with and
our job is being popular.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
And the article gives a bit more factual context on
the mean girls and why we may have been inundated
with so much mean girl content in the nineties and
two thousands. Quote. This focus on the cruelty of girls is,
of course something new. For years, psychologists who study aggression
among school children looked only at its physical and overt
manifestations and concluded that girls were less aggressive than boys.
(11:44):
That consensus began to change in the early nineties after
a team of researchers led by a Finnish professor named
kaj Yorquist started interviewing eleven and twelve year old girls
about their behavior toward one another. The team's conclusion was
that the girls were in fact just as aggressive as boys,
though in a different way. They were not as likely
to engage in physical fights, for example, but their superior
(12:07):
social intelligence enabled them to wage complicated battles with other
girls aimed at damaging relationships or reputations, leaving nasty messages
by cell phone or spreading scurrilous rumors by email, making
friends with one girl as revenge against another, gossiping about
someone just loudly enough to be overheard. Turning the notion
of women's greater empathy on its head byor quests focused
(12:29):
on the destructive uses to which such emotional attunement could
be put. Girls can better understand how other girls feel,
as he puts it, so they know better how to
harm them.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I will say that just triggered me to a middle
school incident on the playground or friends where we were
separated and one person wasn't invited.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
To a birthday party. Oh, just like I had that moment.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Jeez, So I'm not completely wrong about this whole That
was always a girl's girl, if you did something wrong,
I was like mad at you, like if you did
something really wrong.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
But outside of that, Nah, but yeah, I just had
this moment wow or Maria, Sorry Maria. So the article
goes on to highlight other studies that came soon after.
Here's something that was written in relation to Rachel Simmons'
work titled Odd Girl Out The Hidden Culture of Aggression
and Girls. In her book The twenty seven year Old,
(13:30):
Simmons offers a plaintive definition of a relational aggression. Unlike
boys who tend to bully acquaintances or strangers, girls frequently
attack within tightly knit friendship networks, making aggression harder to
identify and intensify the damage to the victims. Within the
hidden culture of aggression, girls fight with body language and
(13:50):
relationships instead of fists and knives. In this world, friendship
is a weapon, and the sting of a shout peals
in comparison to a day of someone's silence. No gesture
more devastating than back turning away. Now, Simonist insists, is
the time to pull up the rock and really look
at this seeding underside of American girlhood beneath a facade
(14:11):
of female intimacy, she writes, lies a terrain traveled in secret,
marked with anguish and nourished by silence.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
She's not completely wrong.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah, and again this.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Kind of also reminds me of a New Girl episode
where the two jests and CEC don't talk to each other, like,
they don't actually fight, but they do passive aggressive things,
but they know they're in a fight, and no one
else knows that they're in a fight, right, And then
when they actually get physical with each other, they feel
better and you screamed at each other, they released it
(14:46):
all and their friends again.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
But I'm like, that doesn't typically happen.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
When that happens, friendship usically just over right by that
point anyway. And though it isn't mentioned in the article
about how the patriarchy and misogyny are big influences within
this relative aggression that they have termed this type of actions,
they do go on to look into other ages and
(15:10):
emotional factors for the reactions. And I don't think we're
the only ones who thought about this. Here's another quote
from the CEC online dot Com article. It says, to
get into the discourse of it all, the popular mean
girl trope is a caricature feeling internalized misogyny in all
of us. Ironically, she's often written by men. As much
(15:31):
as we know that she is an exaggerated and unrealistic
movie character, she's so ingrained in our minds that it
feels like surely some of her must be real and
must be present in real women. Hollywood has pulled this
long con on us over decades in an act of
what we would now call next level gaslighting. This archetype
made us feel bad for not being unrealistically beautiful, rich,
(15:54):
or thin. But more than that, did it encourage an
era of bullying that caused more damage than anyone could
have expected. These movies told us that being mean is
what made you popular. We can't help but wonder what
this did for the psyche of teenagers growing up. So
just coupling the two ideas about, okay, this is how
you win a war is by being mean to a group,
(16:15):
like gaging up on someone, versus also seeing that in
Hollywood films, as well as not realizing this is only
helping one set of peoples and it's not women or
marginalized peoples. But I found that very interesting that none
of the earlier works really talks about it. I also
want to go ahead and talk about the fact the
(16:36):
way they describe Wiseman's feminism as very like low key,
almost to the point of saying I'm not feminists, but
type of conversation I was like, oh okay, oh okay. However,
Wiseman did continue to make additions to keep up with
the changes of the times. So what we were talking
about when we were talking about her theories was the
(16:58):
two thousand and four edition and the self helpic did
have an impact again in the trope itself, literally being
the reason that the movie Mean Girls was even thought
of by Tina Fey, who actually did consult a bit
with Wiseman. I don't know though, if she took a
(17:20):
lot of that advice Tina Fey. I think she took
a lot of stuff out and did her own thing.
Did talk to Wiseman, but kind of like just okay, cool, thanks,
type of situations.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah, from what I've read, I don't think she likes
a new version.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
That's what that's why, just just just the just the
quick kess of I've not seen that. With that background,
let's talk about the Mean Girls the main inspiration actually
(17:55):
comes from the classic Heathers. Uh. Yes, we did this
feature as one of our first movies. I remember it well,
being on your beach house watching it on your small TV. Yeah,
because you had bought it from me on DVD, and
I'm like, yes, let's do this. But like we said before,
the mean girls have been around way before this, but
(18:17):
this was kind of the quintessential beginning. And again what
Wiseman took as examples, but like, yeah, they're the fairy tale.
Cinderella is about meingirls, her wicked stepsisters and her mother. Yeah, hey,
meanirl theme. They were real mean to her, but she,
you know, succeeded without them, and they just there's different
versions of what happens to them, but it's not nice.
(18:38):
But Heathers, yes, as a staple when it comes to
the best example. Here's a bit from the teenmagazine dot
com about meingirls. I can't talk about the mean girl
trope without first mentioning Heathers, the nineteen eighty nine cult
classic that simultaneously became the blueprint for the archetype and
defied the somewhat sexist expectations of teenage girls. Heathers show
(18:59):
the consequence this is not just of mean girls' actions themselves,
but of societal misunderstanding of teens and angst, while poking
fun of the characters and the subject matter with hilarious
self awareness.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
So in the typical story, we have a girl often
seen as innocent or an outsider, are both, who are
pitted against another girl and her posse. This posse is
seen as popular and cool, and they dictate the social
hierarchy in their territory. And again with another reference to
the Heathers, hears a bit more about the leader, or
(19:32):
as Wiseman may call her, the Alpha from that CEC
Online article quote. We know her so well. She's gorgeous,
she's wealthy, she's smart, she drives boys crazy, and above all,
she's the absolute worst. She's the popular mean girl in
every teen movie we grew up watching, and she's completely
made up. Despite her not existing, this archetype has stuck
(19:54):
around for decades, still being used today in movies, series
and reality TV, so implanted in our minds that we're
convinced that her real life incarnation must be out there
somewhere waiting to pounce and make us feel bad. Despite feminism,
pop culture and representation making so many progressive strides. Why
(20:14):
is the popular mean girl so indelible and why the
hell was she created in the first place. What is
it that makes this character so quintessentially her? She's stereotypically beautiful,
of course, but she's also really mean. From one of
her first iterations embodied by Heather Chandler and Heathers to
Chanelle number one in screen Queens, she's tall, skinny, white,
(20:36):
and she has Salan quality hairstyling every day despite being
in high school. She's also always rich, and not in
a quiet luxury kind of way. We'll see ostentatious shots
of her family's massive suburban house, her fancy car, often
convertible sports cars it was the nineties, her huge bedroom
in bed, and most obviously, her incredible wardrobe.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Right, And we're not really talking about the depth of
how most of the mean girls at the beginning were
white and very rich and very sexual or seen as
very sexual. We're not really talking about that part at
this point.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
We should.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
I think I've just ran at it with time or
so we'll come back to that maybe at a different
point when we talk about other tropes. I'm sure, but yeah,
that is something to be seen, although there is conversations
about how more and more people of color have been
put as the mean girls. Asian girls I've seen as
(21:34):
being put in this as the mean girl, rich, small,
all those things and sexually active obviously, and it seems
like that's kind of the filler, like, oh, you want
more people of color.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
We'll put them in this role. Then it will shake
it up.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
And yeah, just for fun, because I love it, We're
gonna talk a little bit more about the Heathers and
really how it brought into in an age and generation
of mean girls and again their importance.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
And this is from gain.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Rent, though it has appeared in many, many iterations since.
The earliest example of mean girl tropes as we know
it today it came from the nineteen eighty eight movies
or nineteen eighty nine Heathers. Heathers had had a sort
of renaissance lately because of the surging popularity of the
musical adaptation, but the original movie was kind of a
(22:20):
cult classic for a long time. The mean girls in
questions are the Heathers themselves, three teenage girls all named
Heather who ruled the school as a group Heather Chandler
is the head and is the ultimate pinnacle of the
mean girl, so much so that basically everyone who came
after was based on this model. She, along with other girls,
(22:40):
is fundamentally motivated by status in social hierarchy, whether that's
gaining it or maintaining the capital she already has. That's
kind of the definition of the mean girl. She's confident, ambitious,
and cunning, but she uses these traits to uphold power
and manipulate others into doing her bidding, thereby keeping her
as the bee. Is also important to the trope that
(23:03):
other people want to be her, and Heather Chandler's social
status is so coveted by others that it literally has
deadly consequences in the stories and oftentimes in horror stories. Interestingly,
some would call the mean girl trope the Heather trope.
Like I was like, oh yeah, that makes sense. According
to an article titled the Heather Trope?
Speaker 3 (23:23):
What is it?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
And how do you write this character? We're not giving
you advice how to write, by the way, just talk
about head apart they write. A Heather is a character
trope that describes the popular person of the high school. Typically,
a Heather is a female character who is traditionally beautiful
and is desired by both men and women. A character
who falls into the heather trope is often complex and
(23:44):
driven by desire to keep up a well manicured appearance.
Similar to the mean girl, the Heather can come off
as a mean spirited even if they're trying to be nice.
This is due to the audience's perception of these types
of characters, which leads to a later understanding of the
characters complexities that make them feel the need to appear
(24:05):
a certain way.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
And it continues quote. The heather trope appeals to the
female desire to be understood and accepted as they are,
rather than what they appear to be. It is a
trope that can often be misunderstood and misrepresented, creating a
character that is mean just because they're pretty.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
So yeah, it's a little bit different in the wanting
to be accepted part. They actually go on to use
Dinnifer from Jennifer's Body Again, we watched that one too
as an example of this and also as an example
of taking down the patriarchy.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
So they use the mean girl trope to take down
the man. I'm like, okay, that's that's that's.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
An appropriate way. Yeah, I approve it this way, so
I'm definitely the feminist that the other articles referring. Now,
one of the things we didn't talk about with Weisman's
books and classes is her breakdown of these groups, which
is often seen again within like Heathers and Mean Girls
and other classic films. But it is understood that part
(25:01):
of the downfall and the catalyst within the mean Girl
slash girls trope as the battle to become the RMG
or the alpha. And I love that this word was
in usage for mean Girls and now have become more
popular for like the referencing on a strong male leader.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
But back to the GameRant dot com article, they continue
to break down how the group is seen within different movies.
Quote Heather's itself is a satire and more of an
indictment on society for forcing young girls to get to
this point more than anything else, but the fundamental tropes
it presented became staples of ten movies into the nineties
and two thousands. Mean Girls presented a more modern version
(25:44):
of the trio from Heathers from the head mean girl
Heather Chandler and Regina George to the jealous Lackey Heather
Duke and Gretchen Wieners to the dumb one who might
secretly be the nicest of the trio, Heather McNamara and
Karen Smith. The bearz of the plot of Mean Girls
is similar to Heathers as well. The protagonists Veronica Slash
(26:05):
Katie befriends the popular girls and thinks they've cracked the
code of social status, only to find that the world
of the mean Girl is much darker than they thought,
and they don't like how it changes them.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yes, after they get called out, of course, So the
RMG or the Alpha or alpha because a lot of
them call them the Alpha or Queen B is the
antagonist and I'm saying this with a capital A. The
antagonist and is the epitome of power or of evil
or both. And here's a bit from TV tropes dot org.
(26:39):
The Alpha is living, breathing evidence that popular is evil,
from stealing your crush to humiliating you in front of
the whole school. There is no low she won't stoop
to in order to oppress her dorky classmates and assert
herself as the queen. She will often win Homecoming Queen
or prom Queen in a landslide vote or not, that's
(27:00):
their takedown, and oftentimes she's the authority of the cheerleading
squad and decides who's on and off the squad. After all,
who needs a coach?
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Hello'e bring it on.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
And they continue quote. She's also usually the sign of
a wealthy and influential family, the star of the school
or head sister of the influential college sorority house, thus
providing her a network of local celebrity, influence and wealth
to exploit. She's also quite the seductress, even going so
far as to bear her midriff as a method of intimidation,
(27:32):
and consequently all the boys fight amongst themselves, sometimes literally,
to be her oppressed boyfriend. And to top it off,
she's also very good looking. All this leaves her with
the belief that she can do whatever she likes without consequences. Unfortunately,
she's often right. The powers that be are not immune
to her family's wealth, connections and influence, and they can
(27:55):
and will be corrupted or coerced into overlooking her bad behavior.
Her natural enemy is the loser heroine. Whenever their eternal
jealousy fueld struggle over possessions, boyfriends, and status is sparked,
aew quarter will neither be asked for nor given.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
So with all those details, we have to ask, why
does the mean girl trope work and has it grown
with the times. Maybe it's not the fact that it worked,
but with a sense of entertainment and foretales like Cinderella,
Heathers and Carrie.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
More of it's about justice.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Like having the deadly ending that brings a bit of
satisfaction in the story that that vengeance, And as the
time has changed, we see a bit of a shift
into the lovable alpha or the reginas who's able to
release their anger and finally be themselves.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah yeah, here's some thoughts on the mean girl and
what we as a society may see about them. From
Women's Republic dot net quote. Contrary to her male counterpart,
the jock bully, who is usually dumb and lacks a
promising future, the mean girl is full of potential. She
believes herself and is aware of her own intelligence. Her
(29:02):
personality drives these positive characteristics to a hyper competitive extreme
and makes her a skilled, yet cruel and devious ruler.
The core of the mean girl's character is often deep
insecurity and anger. She is guided by her rage and
her cynical and deep understanding of the world. Rachel mcadam's
portrayal of Regina George captures this eloquently in Regina's meltdown
(29:24):
after finding out that Katie was deceiving her all along,
or in the regular rude outburst she has towards her mom.
The mean girl is really just an angry girl in
need of boundaries and guidance. Unable to deal with her emotion,
she projects her anger into selfishness and protects herself from
the outside world, climbing the social hierarchy. The mean girl
is well aware of how society works. Instead of fighting
(29:46):
these structures, she upholds them because at least that way
she can end up on top.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Right and the writer goes into more detail of what
makes a good mean girl. She writes, a successful portrayal
of Meingirlo trope should include a motive to the meanness.
Sharpey Evans wanted to start on Broadway. Regina George was
addicted to the power of being influential and saw her
own self worth in popularity. Blair Waldorf relied on her
status to achieve her dreams. The mean girl needs a
(30:14):
backstory to make her authentic. Explaining her behavior simply on
the basis of her gender is sexist and unsatisfying. Her
life also isn't all is cut out to be. Regina
George is on a constant diet to maintain her figure.
Cheryl Blossom lost her brother and closest friend, Rosalie hale
A Low Twilight hates being a vampire the foundation of
(30:35):
her existence. The mean girl is smart, she has a
signature look, and most importantly, she exues desirability on several levels,
which remains even after her downfall. So we know that
we have to have mean girls for some of these
movies and hopefully they come back together with like, oh
it wasn't a competition hopefully or you know, taking down Man.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
One of those.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
So the mean girl must be the feminine representation as well.
So here's some interesting thoughts from Madison Huizinga, I'm so
sorry if I said that wrong, and what she wrote
in her substack about mean girls. So mingirl is always
hyper feminine. She embodies feminine stereotypes on steroids, immaculate faces
of ultra glamorous makeup, victorious secret push up bras, be
(31:23):
dazzled notebooks, luscious waterfalls of the care, manicured nails, and
an undying obsession with fashion. Mean girls of the nineties
and early two thousands looked like they got caught in
a Claire's thunderstorm, followed by a limited to tornado.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
What a reference? What a reference? And she continues in
her writing quote, the cookie cutter characterization of a hyper
feminine mean girl and an unfeminine protagonist is not an accident.
There's a reason why this formula has thrived for decades,
the same reason why young boys are reprimanded for preferring
to play with dolls and wear skirts, while young girls
are more often praised for not being afraid to get dirty,
(32:01):
playing in the mud, and stuck with the label tomboy.
In a patriarchal society, femininity is viewed at best as
acute deficiency and at worst as evil. Obviously, America has
moved past witch trials, yet the disdain for femininity persists
in slighter ways, less boisterous, but loud enough to permeate
(32:22):
the consciousness of media consumers of all genders. Four years teen,
rom coms have disseminated the message that if girls want
to be viewed as intelligent, interesting and in the end
worthy of an equally smart and steady boyfriend. They ultimately
need to abandon their overly feminine qualities. Eliminate your vocal fry,
wipe off the lip gloss, Prove that you're the exception,
(32:45):
the brilliant needle in the haystack of ditsy girlishness to
be seen as having any kind of substance. Prove you're
not like most girls. To prove your significance.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Right, and it isn't too surprising to know that it
is the opposits that have to fight that the enemy
would be the outsider. We would add to that the
layers of makeover tropes, the betting trope. You know, dude
will definitely have sex with the unpopular girl who was
hot all along, but they don't have sex, and instead
he the dude, gets a redemption arc because at the
last minute he decided that's not a nice idea. But
(33:20):
even without those types of tropes, we would still have
the pretty girl versus the not as pretty girl, or
so we're told that, you know, her curly hair makes
her unpretty?
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Or glasses am I right? Am I right?
Speaker 1 (33:35):
As Huizinga writes quote, and somehow the pendulum manages to
swing to the other extreme, too, conceiving a swarm of
opposing but related identity issues. If girls don't conventionally groom
or adorn themselves like the stereotypical woman, if they abandon makeup,
long hair, and dresses, they're often seen as less of
a girl. Sometimes they're asked if they are even girls
(33:56):
at all. As conceptions of gender are inextricably tough, hied
up with appearances, and so a balancing act fit for
the circus emerges. Girls quickly learn to be tightrope walkers,
walking the fine line between being a socially acceptable, conventionally
attractive woman, but not being so girlish that they're seen
as stupid, unserious, or caddy, perhaps also while trying to
(34:19):
figure out the person they want to be for themselves,
apart from the media influence, if that's even possible to discern.
The stress of this balancing act bolsters an already thriving
culture of competition among women. When the patriarchy only allows
a small fixed number of pedestals of power for women,
they must fight each other for them, leading to a
(34:40):
flourishing cesspool of internalized misogyny. Rather than targeting this energy
towards dismantling the patriarchy, the source of this issue. Girls
express hatred toward other girls, their designated opponents. Instead of
using some of this energy to uplift other girls, they
direct it towards trying to be the exception to It's
a cure, a spot on the prize pedestal, be it
(35:02):
a gateway to a higher pinging job, a boyfriend, or
just healthy self worse.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Right, And I feel like she kind of took what
we were saying at the beginning. How we didn't. No
one was addressing that part.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Everybody was just addressing, Oh, mean girls could be mean
they can.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
We understand this, But why in this scenario?
Speaker 2 (35:22):
And yes, the usage of mean girl to propel the
narrative that women can't be friends is not something new
in the foil. Not like most girls, Trope is placed
to make sure that the friendship seems near and possible.
Huizinga devines this. Not like most girls, Trope as the
protagonist in our story. Unlike mean girls, she is pleasant
(35:44):
and shows compassion to friends and strangers. She is often
smart or talented in some secretive way, perhaps notably bookish, artistic,
or athletic. When one of these hidden talents is uncovers,
she peaks the interest of another prominent character, typically the
attractive boyfriend and of the mean girl, or at least
the interest strikingly not like most girls, defining uh stable
(36:07):
trait is the complete opposite of the mean girls. She
is decidedly not feminine. She either subtly dresses more plain
and boyish than the mean girl, more pants less pink,
or downright rejects fashion and makeup altogether, deeming it unnecessary
or trivial. Her hair is either thrown up in a
practical ponytail or stuffed into a knotted bundle atop her
(36:28):
scalp rather than holding a handbag. She can be found
roaming the hallways with her nose stuck in a book,
clumsily bumping into fellows students. Yeah, this is uh, she's
she's all that, for sure, you've never seen that. I
don't think you're missing much on that one.
Speaker 5 (36:46):
But like glasses, like the Hollywood movie, the glasses, the overalls,
her hiding and like like and then her Uh.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I want to say, they're implying that he he's autistic, brother,
but I don't think he is. I can't figure out
what they're because he's He rollers skates and decides to
put pepper on everybody's lunch and people make fun of him.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
I don't know, but yes, that's that one. But yeah, okay,
I still I do.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
The usher scene, the dance, the bad dance scenes. What
pops into my head. This has become the age of
women supporting women, and so the idea of mean girls
have had to catch up to us essentially, and since
(37:36):
then we've had that big conversation with mean girls asking
are you okay? No, really, are you okay? You know,
truly trying to get to the bottom.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Many would argue that the mean girl isn't actually mean,
but angry and misunderstood. In fact, going back to the
student we mentioned Avy Jen who wrote about mean girls,
she talks about the empowerment in evolving a female anger quote.
Not only are emotion expressed through behind the scenes manipulation,
but oftentimes violent passion. Regina George's outbursts and the conclusion
(38:06):
of mean Girls exemplified this. A woman can rage over
reputation and money, exemplified by the character Runata Kline and
Big Little Eyes, showing that these outbursts may be a
last resort for women to achieve what they covet. The
mean girl's trope to me is not about a character's personality, privilege,
or materialistic tendencies, but rather the individual and societal factors
(38:28):
behind a character's actions, words, or emotion.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
And she isn't the only one who sees the evolution
of a mean girl. Perhaps they would call it an
update of it, maybe not. Gweta writes in her twenty
twenty four movie Web article. The importance here is that
the trope has gotten a touch up, growing from the
self centered young woman who does not have much of
a reason to be as hateful as she is to
a young woman who has dealt with her own hardships
and feels that she is justified in how she reacts
(38:53):
to things. This may not seem like a huge shift
on the outside, but it really is. When keeping the
character up to date, girls are becoming more complex and
relatable in the sense that audiences can sympathize with what
they've been through, even if they do not fully condone
how the young women handle things. In the present, the
trope is still at the forefront of many teen movies
(39:13):
and shows, and a lot of the time, they receive
the spotlight to show how no one can really be
considered quote good or bad. There is a gray middle
ground where this trope now resides. With this shift in
this trope, they are able to fall in love, have
genuine friends who do not stick with them due to
their status, and become someone who is actually likable.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
This is a.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Positive change to the formerly shallow trope, and we cannot
wait to see what becomes of it in the future.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Or we have movies that break the stereotype pretty early on,
such as inn Encanto as the latter days. Sat geeks
dot com article writes about the sisters Mirabella and Isabella,
who seem to have nothing in common and Mirabell seeing
Isabella as the standard of the perfect, powerful daughter, but
we quickly learn that isn't the case. Here's a quote.
(40:00):
The room is covered in flower blossoms and Isabella's bed
is suspended from the ceiling by vines. She controls. It's
the girliest thing since the original My Little Pony series,
only somehow less subtle. She tries to throw Mirabel out
via vines when Mirabel starts challenging her about being perfect,
temporarily giving up on the hug my sister to save
the family plan. It's when Isabella starts to truly get mad,
(40:23):
not flippantly annoyed, but actually mad that she accidentally makes
a cactus. The two sisters look surprised at the spiny
addition to the room, and then Isabella breaks out into song.
Apparently with all her power, all she'd ever done was
make flowers and vines grow. She had no idea she
could affect other plants or make something that's not a
traditionally pretty flower. This is where the mean girl trope
(40:45):
spins on its head when we get insight into Isabella's
so called perfection. She feels like she has to be
because that's what's best for the family right.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
And here we don't see the mean girl trope being
used as the antagonist, but more of the revelation for
both the hero in her family to a problem that
has to be solved in order to save all of them.
And as the article continues once again, and Kanto flips
this trope over by having Isabella conjure plants with colorful pollen,
which he then voluntarily gets on her clothes and her hair,
(41:16):
ruining her pretty pink dress. In the end of the song,
her and Mirabel are covered in color from the plants,
a complete mess and smiling happily. The sisters finally embrace
in the mess they've made, allowing each other to be
their imperfect cells and loving each other for it instead
of in spite of it. Isabella ruining her dress on
purpose shows her breakneck growth as a character. She's not
(41:37):
trying to be perfect and is now embracing all the imperfections,
which allows her to have a relationship with her sister,
who is considered the black sheep of the family. So
a great example of what can be done and why
it's necessary for the plot without making it sexist and gross,
and as Aditi Marty writes in her article tie, can
(42:00):
we move on from the mean girl trope? As a
depiction of hyper competitiveness between women in this swaddle dot
com quote, waves of feminists have attempted to discern and
work towards why women compete with each other and how
they can work together instead. Their work ranges from the
shine theory, which posits women's ability to befriend and learn
from other women, to upholding kindness as a deeply underrated
(42:22):
feminist way of life. This work is both possible and
shows gradual results because they consider women's hyper aggressiveness and
competition as a reaction to societal forces rather than innate.
This shift has yielded results. Mean girls on screen now
come with nuance, background stories and motivations because the audience
will simply not accept women are caddy negative, preppy and
(42:45):
competitive female characters now come with backstories. Cheryl Blossom and
Riverdale are friendless for their competitive nature. Sharpey evans in
high school musical and are often redeemed as worthy of love.
Again Rosalie Hill Twilight Series. I love it, and you
know what, I think it's working. I think this kind
of ideal is working in the fact that the audience
(43:06):
is demanding more because again there's great films in children's
movies like Encanto that bring a different level to the trope,
which does uphold kindness as they write. But yes, there
is a lot to be said about the evolution of
the mean girl and a lot of work to be
done again, like the whole sexual like the mean girl
needs to be sexual experience and sexual as a part
(43:28):
of being cool. Interesting way of going and I know
there are a lot that we may not have tackled,
and there are so many other references we haven't touched on,
but it is interesting to see how these dated tropes
have evolved as time passes, and hopefully here's to see
more encouraging adaptations of the mean girl, which honestly probably
should be renamed by now, but they you know whatever.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Yeah, I do think it's interesting that because women are
so expected to be so nice that mean girls have
a lot of fans at a lot of the more
recent one and have a lot of fans.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
And we didn't really go into the queer Yeah, heard
of it again, ran out of time because I feel
like that might be just a Monday mini honest.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Well, something to look forward to. So much to touch
on here, but what listeners, We would love to hear
your favorite examples, yeah, yes, or your thoughts about this.
You can email us at Stuff India Mom, stuff at
iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter at
most of podcasts, on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I've
Never told you. We're also on YouTube. We have a
(44:30):
tea public store, and we have a book you can
get wherever you get your books things as always too,
our super producer, Christina executive producer My and our contributor Joey.
Thank you, yes, and thanks to you for listening. Stuff
I've Never Told You is production of iHeartRadio. For more
podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check out the
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