November 17, 2025 • 23 mins
Chanté Joseph's recent Vogue article "Is Having a Boyfriend Embarrassing Now?" hit a nerve and started a lot of conversation. We chat about some of the reasons why.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Anny.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
And Samantha and welcome to stuff I never told your
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
And welcome to another Monday Mini. We've kind of been
hinting at, yes, but I think we are going to
dive into it. So recently we made mention of an
article that had really been impacting a lot of people,
apparently all the people's both positive and negative. And you
know what, I've enjoyed every bit of it, every bit
(00:41):
of it, including a lot of like commentary from the
actual author. The article is titled is having a boyfriend Embarrassing?
So this is written by Chantey Joseph and was published
in October of twenty twenty five this year for Vogue
US and with this popularity that actually spread internationally and
(01:02):
then so I'm like, other articles are now writing articles
based on this article. It is making waves.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Anyah. The reaction, y'all, wow.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
It has been both enlightening and disheartening to see in
real time as.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
It was released.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
But I will say the question alone resonated, like seriously,
any resonated as a person who feels they can only
identify as heterosexual and am in currencys hetero relationship in
our field? That I say, we understand that identity and
(01:42):
structure is a spectrum. Like we have come to that conversation.
We embrace it and find joy in that that it
is all a spectrum, and we say that for mental health,
we say that about gender identity. Like so many things,
there's spectrums, and I think it makes the most sense
that that is how it should be evaluated. But with that,
(02:05):
this type of articles can't help but feel exposed with
understanding that. Of course, we've talked about the usage of
the term partner, because that's been a big debate, right
like even today.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, that was actually past host and founder Kristen. She
did a whole episode on years and years ago on
about like boyfriend, the word feels really childish, it doesn't
feel very serious, So what is the other what are
(02:40):
the other words we can use? And she partner was
part of that discussion. So yeah, we've been talking about
this for.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
A while a while, and like even today, people get
upset for people who are in since hetero relationship to
call their boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever whatnot partners instead of boyfriend girlfriend.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
And I've talked.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Previously about the fact that this is because age, like marage,
is not something that I see in my future and
not anything that I've ever really wanted outside of being
told I should want it, and so following that social norm,
which again is part of this conversation, So feel like
calling my seven year relationship boyfriend. When we live together,
(03:21):
own things together, like share like a dog, all these things,
it just seems not significant enough, you know, to compare
it to a high school boyfriend or a middle school boyfriend,
slash all those things so it's more significant. And then
I've also seen a queer couple saying that they like
it because it gives credence as well as value to
(03:44):
partnerships as what they call each other, and even when
they do get married or if they do get married,
they see that and being able to claim that as
being a norm. So normalizing that word feels like progress.
So it's like a back and forth of that. With
all of that said, like I felt like me using
that term partner maybe implying that I'm trying to hide
(04:08):
the fact that I have a boyfriend. But I've been
you know, specific because he goes by he and so
there's no hiding it other than I'm not also not
airing his name out because it's not, you know, in
respect to him and everything else. So definitely different reasons,
but like it does feel like I'm kind of hiding
it a little bit when I say this, And I
(04:30):
think it's interesting because this article kind of hits on
not him. This has nothing to do with my actual partner.
It's the conversation of having or being in said relationship, right.
So in this article, Joseph asked this question and talks
about the cultural shift of like, once upon a time,
(04:51):
having a boyfriend, having that partner and being in a
cis heterosexual relationship gave you power, gave you more value
as a person, as a woman.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, and it was your goal.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
It was the thing that you wanted and you know,
go to college and get your mrs degree, Like it
means your whole thing.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
This is who you were supposed to be.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
So she writes this in this conversations like is it
a cultural shift? Maybe?
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Why are people.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Saying, nah, we don't say that, it says soa gives
Are people embarrassed by their boyfriends now or is something
more complicated going on? To me, it feels like the
result of women wanting to straddle to worlds one where
they can receive the social benefits of having a partner,
but also not appear as boyfriend obsessed that they come
across as quite culturally losorish. Quote. They want the prize
(05:45):
and celebration of partnership, but understand the norminess of it,
says as Zoe Shmudzi, writer and activists. In other words,
in an era of widespread hetero fatalism, women don't want
to be seen as being all about their men, but
they also want the cloud that comes with being partnered. Okay,
So the way that sounds, it feels very accusatory in
(06:07):
a certain sense of like, oh, they're trying to be
both these things. Again, when I say the word partner,
I feel like it's trying for me to purposely hide
something in a field that that's not necessarily a celebration
that doesn't make you special, which I'm glad. Which I'm
glad because I lived the majority of my life not
(06:31):
being in relationships. So like, I love seeing that as
in fact as of reason. As happy as I am
in my relationship and any you've witnessed our relationship pretty closely,
pretty closely, and we are happily together, I feel like
we're pretty equal in so many things, and we take
care of each other, and like we are aligned when
(06:56):
it comes to political things and mental health things and
cultural and social things. So there's no surprise for me.
Like for a little while I thought there might be,
but there wasn't. With all of that though, like it's
still odd, and I will say to people who are
not in relationships and seeking relationships, like why why, especially
if they've come out of a bad relationship or bad
(07:19):
dating experiences. Be like, being single is not bad. It
is actually pretty great. You should learn to embrace it.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, and you just had a really great interview that
you'll hear with Liberal Jane. But because we have so
many things, I didn't get to bring up this point,
(07:47):
but she was talking about divorce and kind of how
people have that knee jerk. Oh, I'm so sorry, But
there really has been a shift in that conversation as well.
And I actually witnessed this years ago when I was
at a bar and there was just a group of
divorced women and they were having the best time, and
(08:07):
they were like, this was a I'm glad I was
able to make this decision. We found each other. But
that's just not the narrative. I grew up hearing I
grew up hearing if you get divorced, you failed. If
you can't find the dude in a very heteronormative sense,
you have failed. But I do think something is happening
right now where peeple are being more willing to say,
(08:30):
you know what, I'd rather be single, or you know what,
I'd rather be divorced women specifically, where that hasn't been
the case for a while, at least openly I think
it was, but openly people are talking about it more.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
They are, And in this place she talked specifically about
like the progressiveness I guess in that once upon a
time you could only make good content as if you
had to show you perfect boyfriend relationship and now and
capitalize on that. But now that's shifting, and so they're like, oh,
(09:06):
blow out his face, don't show him. We got Yeah,
So like this cultural dynamic being changing again, the circular
time of like regressing in all these things. But in
her research, she talks about different women's reasons to why
they may not share their partnership so kind of hiding
it as they say, whether it was a fear of
(09:29):
the relationship ending like this, like at one point when
it ends, what happens, you have to also publicly. And
then I've seen so many of those where relationships end
in divorce and their whole platform was about them having
the perfect relationship or they're horrible breakup because one of
them did the other is get to get called out.
It gets messy and like things get gross or things
(09:50):
happening in which like they're just sad, and so they
can't grieve for more. And people, because you've shared so much,
feel that they have the right to know why, why
is there entertainment going away? Why is their fantasy or
ideal of this relationship going away? And it does happen
with both heterosexual and homosexual relationships, so like we know
(10:12):
this is a crossboard.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Oh yeah, And actually I have a friend We've been
honest about it listeners, but neither of us really listen
to podcasts. But I have a friend that listens to
a lot of podcasts and they're the hosts who were
best friends, just platonic best friends, broke up and the
podcast went away, And I've been like getting these texts
(10:35):
from her about how devastated she is because this was
a relationship she was fond of and that was their
whole thing, and she says like, now it's hard for
me to even listen to the old podcast episodes because
now I know how this ended and it was really
gross apparently, but you get attached to the idea of it.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Yeah, now that that's happening on playing out like it
once upon a time as.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
It ages that ends this way.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Those are other reasons that they said that people are
afraid that other people are jealous and that might ruin
it somehow, And I think like whether it's they're trying
to break them apart or they're trying to find faults
in their relationships. Again, there's also those who are paranoid,
like you're just jealous of me type of thing too,
So like those levels exist and they feel like this
(11:28):
could you know, ruin the show again. It also has
something to do with like they just feel guilty and
having a relationship, And it could be those people who
maybe have for a long time banked on the fact
that they are single wild now girls or having like
these like moments of like travel alone and then they
do find somebody, they're like, oh, we can't we can't
(11:50):
show I feel like we kind of win this it
with past hosts. Kristin you just mentioned when she was
of course there's so many things that happened happening, but
when she got engaged and then she got like an
op ed and they came after her specifically being like,
how dare you, as a feminist get married? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah, and she was, you know, excited about it, and
it was and then she should be. This is she
found somebody she really loved and that she was open
about it and very excited about it, and people were like, well,
you've lied to me.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Then, yeah, you're not an independent, strong woman at the
very marrying a woman.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Like it's just like it was like intensity.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I remember that because I had to her wedding and
like it was a beautiful, dude, everything was wonderful, but
it was like the pre as I was saying, and
I was barely on social media at that point, but
I was like, oh, why are people having so many
opinions about her wedding. I'm very confused about this.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
It was, Yeah, it was strange, that whole thing. I
remember that too.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Didn't she have to come out with an episode to explain?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
I think so?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yeah, she Because at the time I was mostly involved
in the YouTube the stuff one never told you YouTube
videos and she had a series professor boyfriend, which is
when her boyfriend would come on and they would talk
about things. It was really cute, but I'm pretty sure
they had like a whole thing that was just.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
You know, he's here supporting me to do that.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
I'm sure he wasn't getting paid, which is wrong by
the way that he should have been, but he was
there supporting her. There was no talk of like, I
don't know, she's gonna stop doing this because she's getting married.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
It was just a very bizarre.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Why people thought that immediately this meant she's not a feminist.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Actually right, Yeah, it was an odd level, but yeah,
like not necessarily, Kristin did not do this. But I
know a lot of people again out of guilt for
like they can't say they have a boyfriend or they
are in a heterosexual relationship, us this relationship anyway. So
it is interesting and again Jose goes on and it
explains this way, but there was an overwhelming sense from
(14:07):
single and partnered women alike that, regardless of the relationship,
being with a man was an almost guilty thing to do.
On the Delusional Diaries podcast, fronted by two New York
based influencers.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Haley and Jazz.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
They discuss whether having a boyfriend is quote lame. Now,
why does having a boyfriend? Phil Republican read a top
comment boyfriends are out of style. They won't come back
in until they start acting right read another with thousands
of likes in essence quote having a boyfriend that typically
takes hits on women's aura. As one comment or claimed,
(14:42):
so I feel like this is the backwards of like
this is the results of the patriarchy and misogyny, Like
this is the results of like what we have seen
are such bad relationships. Yep, that that seems to be
the norm. So therefore that is really embarrassing.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
I have a friend who is in a wonderful relationship now,
but historically have not liked her boyfriend. And there's nothing.
I don't judge her, and I don't feel like she
is an intelligent person, but there was something about because
(15:37):
all of her relationships were bad, I just had this association.
So her new the person she's seeing is wonderful. I
put off meeting him forever. Yeah, because I was like,
I don't even want to everybody else I haven't liked,
so I get that kind of idea of and you know, honestly,
(15:58):
this is saying something about as we were talking about
it in a last Monday, many state of dating, the
state of men and these heterosexual dating situations is so
bad that now we have this association.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Of like like it really like we are building more
prone to be skeptical. But at the same time, when
they're okay, again that the bar is so low, you
find them above the curve somehow, yep, and yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
That's the level.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
So like there's just like battling mentality here, Like it
is embarrassing. So if they're okay, like they hit the
minimum standards, therefore they're great, But at the same time,
it's still kind of embarrassing, Like.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
There's this balance that seems to be off.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
And I have interestingly seen a lot of people I
guess maybe it's just my algorithm seeing many people write
or talk about the fact that the only types of
women who are in good heterosexual relationships are the ones
that women the women that woman actually hate all men,
most men, if not all men, except for that one person.
(17:10):
And still found this one person, and this one person
understands why she hates all men and accepts the fact
that he has to prove, yeah, that he is not
one of those like type of conversation and being like okay,
And again.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
That is usually men who are being good humans. That's
the bar.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Now, just yea.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Treating you like a personal.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Helping support you like equal and equity makes sense to them.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Right, Yeah, I've already hinted at it. But we have
this episode coming up about moms are not okay right now,
and I just have been struck by how much of
our new entertainment is women just being like, you know what,
I'd rather be alone? Yes, then your gaslighting of doing
(18:17):
the bare minimum yep, and telling me that I'm making
things difficult for you. And so yeah, I think finding
that that person is absolutely possible, but it's difficult.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
It's difficult.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Again, Joseph talks about the fact that the culturals guist
has shifted, meaning where we once were fed that to
be happy and fulfilled is to be married with a
perfect family and living the American dream. H and now
that has been drowned out by the reality that having
the freedom of being single is the actual dream because again,
(18:56):
as studies have shown more recently, that are more likely
to be satisfied and live longer than married women because
married women are sacrificing so much. Married men are fine
because they've actually gotten a load off. Someone cooks dinner
for them, someone takes care of their washing, someone comes
in and takes care of the kids. As were for
(19:16):
married women, the work doubles, if not triples, if not quadruples,
because they now take on taking care of an entire family,
usually under the American dream umbrella, without the help of
the father so or the husband or the man in
the house.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Yeah, And it was kind of a big trick because
it was like, this is the American dream. You get
to stay home and do all of this stuff and
I don't have to thank you or pay you or
do anything.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
And now you can't stay home, and now you can't.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Care to live home because it's too expensive to have
a kid. So in these traditional heterosexual relationships, women are
doing They're going to work and they're taking care of
the kid, and they're taking care of their husband and
the house.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Like, yep, that's not a dream.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
The deal is gone right out the window because we
don't want to just minimally live. You promised us the dream,
So you're buying as clothes you're buying us like trips
you're buying.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Where did that go? And now to go? That dream
does not exist.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Me and you are having to both work through the
max while I take care of these things the woman
and we barely still can afford a good dinner and
once a month date maybe because we have to pay
for a sinner.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
We have to.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
And I'm probably gonna plan all these things because you're
not going to.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Do that exactly, and.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
I'm tired to think about it too, but like you can't.
We talked about this in a past episode. But also
leisure time. Men have a lot more leisure time than
women do. And if you're talking about like the minimal
for time, women have most of it. Even so, and
(21:04):
these are old studies I'm thinking of, are spent thinking
about your kids, yep, like you're still our groceries or
like you're still worried about this. And by the way,
this actually came up in a study on sexual health
because women were saying they didn't enjoy they couldn't enjoy
(21:25):
sex because all they were doing was thinking about everything
they had to do.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
So that's I.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Mean, even in your free time end quotes, so you're not.
It's not free. You're thinking about all this other stuff
you have to do.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
So back to Joseph's article, she writes, from my conversations,
one thing is certain. The script is shifting. Being partnered
doesn't affirm your womanhood anymore. It is no longer considered
an achievement, and if anything, it's become more of a
flex to pronounce yourself single. As straight women were confronting
something that every other sexuality has had to contend with,
(22:00):
a politicization of our identity. Heterosexuality has long been purposefully indefinable,
so it is harder for those within it and outside
of it to critique. However, as our traditional roles begin
to crumble, maybe we're being forced to reevaluate our blind
allegiance to heterosexuality. That sentence, Yeah, I giggled at that sentence.
(22:24):
It's powerful to me. Yeah, it is this level of
like that as being the standard?
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Is it?
Speaker 5 (22:34):
Yes, it's not.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
No, And I, like I mentioned, this has been kind
of interesting for me as an ace person hearing this
play out where I'm like, I went from I must
be a sad cat lady to look at the life. Well,
we did have a lot to say about this, as
we knew we would.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I was pretty I was pretty certain.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
We are going to slit this one into two Monday
Minnis if you will so look out for part two.
But in the meantime, if you would like to contact
us if you have any thoughts about this, We've heard
some interesting things from listeners about the conservative men lying
on dating apps, so please write and you can email
us at Hello at Stuffnever Told You dot com. You
(23:21):
can find us on Blue Sky at all Stuff podcast,
or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never Told
You for us on YouTube. We have some new merchandise
at Compuro and we have a book you can get
wherever you get your books. Thanks as always to our
super producer Chris team you're executive preus and mya and.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Your contributor Joey.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Thank you and thanks to you for listening Stuff Never
Told You Much in My Heart Radio. For more podcast
from my Heart Radio, you can check out the iHeartRadio app, app,
a podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, this is Anny.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
And Samantha and welcome to stuff I never told your
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
And welcome to another Monday Mini. We've kind of been
hinting at, yes, but I think we are going to
dive into it. So recently we made mention of an
article that had really been impacting a lot of people,
apparently all the people's both positive and negative. And you
know what, I've enjoyed every bit of it, every bit
(00:41):
of it, including a lot of like commentary from the
actual author. The article is titled is having a boyfriend Embarrassing?
So this is written by Chantey Joseph and was published
in October of twenty twenty five this year for Vogue
US and with this popularity that actually spread internationally and
(01:02):
then so I'm like, other articles are now writing articles
based on this article. It is making waves.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Anyah. The reaction, y'all, wow.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
It has been both enlightening and disheartening to see in
real time as.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
It was released.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
But I will say the question alone resonated, like seriously,
any resonated as a person who feels they can only
identify as heterosexual and am in currencys hetero relationship in
our field? That I say, we understand that identity and
(01:42):
structure is a spectrum. Like we have come to that conversation.
We embrace it and find joy in that that it
is all a spectrum, and we say that for mental health,
we say that about gender identity. Like so many things,
there's spectrums, and I think it makes the most sense
that that is how it should be evaluated. But with that,
(02:05):
this type of articles can't help but feel exposed with
understanding that. Of course, we've talked about the usage of
the term partner, because that's been a big debate, right
like even today.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, that was actually past host and founder Kristen. She
did a whole episode on years and years ago on
about like boyfriend, the word feels really childish, it doesn't
feel very serious, So what is the other what are
(02:40):
the other words we can use? And she partner was
part of that discussion. So yeah, we've been talking about
this for.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
A while a while, and like even today, people get
upset for people who are in since hetero relationship to
call their boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever whatnot partners instead of boyfriend girlfriend.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
And I've talked.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Previously about the fact that this is because age, like marage,
is not something that I see in my future and
not anything that I've ever really wanted outside of being
told I should want it, and so following that social norm,
which again is part of this conversation, So feel like
calling my seven year relationship boyfriend. When we live together,
(03:21):
own things together, like share like a dog, all these things,
it just seems not significant enough, you know, to compare
it to a high school boyfriend or a middle school boyfriend,
slash all those things so it's more significant. And then
I've also seen a queer couple saying that they like
it because it gives credence as well as value to
(03:44):
partnerships as what they call each other, and even when
they do get married or if they do get married,
they see that and being able to claim that as
being a norm. So normalizing that word feels like progress.
So it's like a back and forth of that. With
all of that said, like I felt like me using
that term partner maybe implying that I'm trying to hide
(04:08):
the fact that I have a boyfriend. But I've been
you know, specific because he goes by he and so
there's no hiding it other than I'm not also not
airing his name out because it's not, you know, in
respect to him and everything else. So definitely different reasons,
but like it does feel like I'm kind of hiding
it a little bit when I say this, And I
(04:30):
think it's interesting because this article kind of hits on
not him. This has nothing to do with my actual partner.
It's the conversation of having or being in said relationship, right.
So in this article, Joseph asked this question and talks
about the cultural shift of like, once upon a time,
(04:51):
having a boyfriend, having that partner and being in a
cis heterosexual relationship gave you power, gave you more value
as a person, as a woman.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, and it was your goal.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
It was the thing that you wanted and you know,
go to college and get your mrs degree, Like it
means your whole thing.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
This is who you were supposed to be.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
So she writes this in this conversations like is it
a cultural shift? Maybe?
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Why are people.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Saying, nah, we don't say that, it says soa gives
Are people embarrassed by their boyfriends now or is something
more complicated going on? To me, it feels like the
result of women wanting to straddle to worlds one where
they can receive the social benefits of having a partner,
but also not appear as boyfriend obsessed that they come
across as quite culturally losorish. Quote. They want the prize
(05:45):
and celebration of partnership, but understand the norminess of it,
says as Zoe Shmudzi, writer and activists. In other words,
in an era of widespread hetero fatalism, women don't want
to be seen as being all about their men, but
they also want the cloud that comes with being partnered. Okay,
So the way that sounds, it feels very accusatory in
(06:07):
a certain sense of like, oh, they're trying to be
both these things. Again, when I say the word partner,
I feel like it's trying for me to purposely hide
something in a field that that's not necessarily a celebration
that doesn't make you special, which I'm glad. Which I'm
glad because I lived the majority of my life not
(06:31):
being in relationships. So like, I love seeing that as
in fact as of reason. As happy as I am
in my relationship and any you've witnessed our relationship pretty closely,
pretty closely, and we are happily together, I feel like
we're pretty equal in so many things, and we take
care of each other, and like we are aligned when
(06:56):
it comes to political things and mental health things and
cultural and social things. So there's no surprise for me.
Like for a little while I thought there might be,
but there wasn't. With all of that though, like it's
still odd, and I will say to people who are
not in relationships and seeking relationships, like why why, especially
if they've come out of a bad relationship or bad
(07:19):
dating experiences. Be like, being single is not bad. It
is actually pretty great. You should learn to embrace it.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, and you just had a really great interview that
you'll hear with Liberal Jane. But because we have so
many things, I didn't get to bring up this point,
(07:47):
but she was talking about divorce and kind of how
people have that knee jerk. Oh, I'm so sorry, But
there really has been a shift in that conversation as well.
And I actually witnessed this years ago when I was
at a bar and there was just a group of
divorced women and they were having the best time, and
(08:07):
they were like, this was a I'm glad I was
able to make this decision. We found each other. But
that's just not the narrative. I grew up hearing I
grew up hearing if you get divorced, you failed. If
you can't find the dude in a very heteronormative sense,
you have failed. But I do think something is happening
right now where peeple are being more willing to say,
(08:30):
you know what, I'd rather be single, or you know what,
I'd rather be divorced women specifically, where that hasn't been
the case for a while, at least openly I think
it was, but openly people are talking about it more.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
They are, And in this place she talked specifically about
like the progressiveness I guess in that once upon a
time you could only make good content as if you
had to show you perfect boyfriend relationship and now and
capitalize on that. But now that's shifting, and so they're like, oh,
(09:06):
blow out his face, don't show him. We got Yeah,
So like this cultural dynamic being changing again, the circular
time of like regressing in all these things. But in
her research, she talks about different women's reasons to why
they may not share their partnership so kind of hiding
it as they say, whether it was a fear of
(09:29):
the relationship ending like this, like at one point when
it ends, what happens, you have to also publicly. And
then I've seen so many of those where relationships end
in divorce and their whole platform was about them having
the perfect relationship or they're horrible breakup because one of
them did the other is get to get called out.
It gets messy and like things get gross or things
(09:50):
happening in which like they're just sad, and so they
can't grieve for more. And people, because you've shared so much,
feel that they have the right to know why, why
is there entertainment going away? Why is their fantasy or
ideal of this relationship going away? And it does happen
with both heterosexual and homosexual relationships, so like we know
(10:12):
this is a crossboard.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Oh yeah, And actually I have a friend We've been
honest about it listeners, but neither of us really listen
to podcasts. But I have a friend that listens to
a lot of podcasts and they're the hosts who were
best friends, just platonic best friends, broke up and the
podcast went away, And I've been like getting these texts
(10:35):
from her about how devastated she is because this was
a relationship she was fond of and that was their
whole thing, and she says like, now it's hard for
me to even listen to the old podcast episodes because
now I know how this ended and it was really
gross apparently, but you get attached to the idea of it.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Yeah, now that that's happening on playing out like it
once upon a time as.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
It ages that ends this way.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Those are other reasons that they said that people are
afraid that other people are jealous and that might ruin
it somehow, And I think like whether it's they're trying
to break them apart or they're trying to find faults
in their relationships. Again, there's also those who are paranoid,
like you're just jealous of me type of thing too,
So like those levels exist and they feel like this
(11:28):
could you know, ruin the show again. It also has
something to do with like they just feel guilty and
having a relationship, And it could be those people who
maybe have for a long time banked on the fact
that they are single wild now girls or having like
these like moments of like travel alone and then they
do find somebody, they're like, oh, we can't we can't
(11:50):
show I feel like we kind of win this it
with past hosts. Kristin you just mentioned when she was
of course there's so many things that happened happening, but
when she got engaged and then she got like an
op ed and they came after her specifically being like,
how dare you, as a feminist get married? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah, and she was, you know, excited about it, and
it was and then she should be. This is she
found somebody she really loved and that she was open
about it and very excited about it, and people were like, well,
you've lied to me.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Then, yeah, you're not an independent, strong woman at the
very marrying a woman.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Like it's just like it was like intensity.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
I remember that because I had to her wedding and
like it was a beautiful, dude, everything was wonderful, but
it was like the pre as I was saying, and
I was barely on social media at that point, but
I was like, oh, why are people having so many
opinions about her wedding. I'm very confused about this.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
It was, Yeah, it was strange, that whole thing. I
remember that too.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Didn't she have to come out with an episode to explain?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
I think so?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yeah, she Because at the time I was mostly involved
in the YouTube the stuff one never told you YouTube
videos and she had a series professor boyfriend, which is
when her boyfriend would come on and they would talk
about things. It was really cute, but I'm pretty sure
they had like a whole thing that was just.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
You know, he's here supporting me to do that.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
I'm sure he wasn't getting paid, which is wrong by
the way that he should have been, but he was
there supporting her. There was no talk of like, I
don't know, she's gonna stop doing this because she's getting married.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
It was just a very bizarre.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Why people thought that immediately this meant she's not a feminist.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Actually right, Yeah, it was an odd level, but yeah,
like not necessarily, Kristin did not do this. But I
know a lot of people again out of guilt for
like they can't say they have a boyfriend or they
are in a heterosexual relationship, us this relationship anyway. So
it is interesting and again Jose goes on and it
explains this way, but there was an overwhelming sense from
(14:07):
single and partnered women alike that, regardless of the relationship,
being with a man was an almost guilty thing to do.
On the Delusional Diaries podcast, fronted by two New York
based influencers.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Haley and Jazz.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
They discuss whether having a boyfriend is quote lame. Now,
why does having a boyfriend? Phil Republican read a top
comment boyfriends are out of style. They won't come back
in until they start acting right read another with thousands
of likes in essence quote having a boyfriend that typically
takes hits on women's aura. As one comment or claimed,
(14:42):
so I feel like this is the backwards of like
this is the results of the patriarchy and misogyny, Like
this is the results of like what we have seen
are such bad relationships. Yep, that that seems to be
the norm. So therefore that is really embarrassing.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
I have a friend who is in a wonderful relationship now,
but historically have not liked her boyfriend. And there's nothing.
I don't judge her, and I don't feel like she
is an intelligent person, but there was something about because
(15:37):
all of her relationships were bad, I just had this association.
So her new the person she's seeing is wonderful. I
put off meeting him forever. Yeah, because I was like,
I don't even want to everybody else I haven't liked,
so I get that kind of idea of and you know, honestly,
(15:58):
this is saying something about as we were talking about
it in a last Monday, many state of dating, the
state of men and these heterosexual dating situations is so
bad that now we have this association.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Of like like it really like we are building more
prone to be skeptical. But at the same time, when
they're okay, again that the bar is so low, you
find them above the curve somehow, yep, and yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
That's the level.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
So like there's just like battling mentality here, Like it
is embarrassing. So if they're okay, like they hit the
minimum standards, therefore they're great, But at the same time,
it's still kind of embarrassing, Like.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
There's this balance that seems to be off.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
And I have interestingly seen a lot of people I
guess maybe it's just my algorithm seeing many people write
or talk about the fact that the only types of
women who are in good heterosexual relationships are the ones
that women the women that woman actually hate all men,
most men, if not all men, except for that one person.
(17:10):
And still found this one person, and this one person
understands why she hates all men and accepts the fact
that he has to prove, yeah, that he is not
one of those like type of conversation and being like okay,
And again.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
That is usually men who are being good humans. That's
the bar.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Now, just yea.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Treating you like a personal.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Helping support you like equal and equity makes sense to them.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Right, Yeah, I've already hinted at it. But we have
this episode coming up about moms are not okay right now,
and I just have been struck by how much of
our new entertainment is women just being like, you know what,
I'd rather be alone? Yes, then your gaslighting of doing
(18:17):
the bare minimum yep, and telling me that I'm making
things difficult for you. And so yeah, I think finding
that that person is absolutely possible, but it's difficult.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
It's difficult.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Again, Joseph talks about the fact that the culturals guist
has shifted, meaning where we once were fed that to
be happy and fulfilled is to be married with a
perfect family and living the American dream. H and now
that has been drowned out by the reality that having
the freedom of being single is the actual dream because again,
(18:56):
as studies have shown more recently, that are more likely
to be satisfied and live longer than married women because
married women are sacrificing so much. Married men are fine
because they've actually gotten a load off. Someone cooks dinner
for them, someone takes care of their washing, someone comes
in and takes care of the kids. As were for
(19:16):
married women, the work doubles, if not triples, if not quadruples,
because they now take on taking care of an entire family,
usually under the American dream umbrella, without the help of
the father so or the husband or the man in
the house.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Yeah, And it was kind of a big trick because
it was like, this is the American dream. You get
to stay home and do all of this stuff and
I don't have to thank you or pay you or
do anything.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
And now you can't stay home, and now you can't.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Care to live home because it's too expensive to have
a kid. So in these traditional heterosexual relationships, women are
doing They're going to work and they're taking care of
the kid, and they're taking care of their husband and
the house.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Like, yep, that's not a dream.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
The deal is gone right out the window because we
don't want to just minimally live. You promised us the dream,
So you're buying as clothes you're buying us like trips
you're buying.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
Where did that go? And now to go? That dream
does not exist.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Me and you are having to both work through the
max while I take care of these things the woman
and we barely still can afford a good dinner and
once a month date maybe because we have to pay
for a sinner.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
We have to.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
And I'm probably gonna plan all these things because you're
not going to.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Do that exactly, and.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
I'm tired to think about it too, but like you can't.
We talked about this in a past episode. But also
leisure time. Men have a lot more leisure time than
women do. And if you're talking about like the minimal
for time, women have most of it. Even so, and
(21:04):
these are old studies I'm thinking of, are spent thinking
about your kids, yep, like you're still our groceries or
like you're still worried about this. And by the way,
this actually came up in a study on sexual health
because women were saying they didn't enjoy they couldn't enjoy
(21:25):
sex because all they were doing was thinking about everything
they had to do.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
So that's I.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Mean, even in your free time end quotes, so you're not.
It's not free. You're thinking about all this other stuff
you have to do.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
So back to Joseph's article, she writes, from my conversations,
one thing is certain. The script is shifting. Being partnered
doesn't affirm your womanhood anymore. It is no longer considered
an achievement, and if anything, it's become more of a
flex to pronounce yourself single. As straight women were confronting
something that every other sexuality has had to contend with,
(22:00):
a politicization of our identity. Heterosexuality has long been purposefully indefinable,
so it is harder for those within it and outside
of it to critique. However, as our traditional roles begin
to crumble, maybe we're being forced to reevaluate our blind
allegiance to heterosexuality. That sentence, Yeah, I giggled at that sentence.
(22:24):
It's powerful to me. Yeah, it is this level of
like that as being the standard?
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Is it?
Speaker 5 (22:34):
Yes, it's not.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
No, And I, like I mentioned, this has been kind
of interesting for me as an ace person hearing this
play out where I'm like, I went from I must
be a sad cat lady to look at the life. Well,
we did have a lot to say about this, as
we knew we would.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I was pretty I was pretty certain.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
We are going to slit this one into two Monday
Minnis if you will so look out for part two.
But in the meantime, if you would like to contact
us if you have any thoughts about this, We've heard
some interesting things from listeners about the conservative men lying
on dating apps, so please write and you can email
us at Hello at Stuffnever Told You dot com. You
(23:21):
can find us on Blue Sky at all Stuff podcast,
or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never Told
You for us on YouTube. We have some new merchandise
at Compuro and we have a book you can get
wherever you get your books. Thanks as always to our
super producer Chris team you're executive preus and mya and.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Your contributor Joey.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Thank you and thanks to you for listening Stuff Never
Told You Much in My Heart Radio. For more podcast
from my Heart Radio, you can check out the iHeartRadio app, app,
a podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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