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May 13, 2024 17 mins

What is hyper independence? What does it have to do with women, trauma and relationships? We explain.

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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and welcome to.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Stuff I never told your production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
And welcome to another Monday Mini where I'm going to
talk about how TikTok has attacked me.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Okay again ran TikTok No.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
So there was a video not too long ago where
they were talking about how some and they were specifically
talking about women in relationships cannot function in relationships or
art can't do healthy relationships because of hyper independence. And
it is exactly what you think it is. It is
when an individual is extremely self reliant and a voice

(00:50):
going to other people for support or help. And just
for this Monday Minny, just so you know, I am
taking a chunk of our information from two articles, ones
from Sandstone's Care dot com and the other one is
brainsmagazine dot com Brains with a z oh yeah magazine

(01:12):
dot com, where we talk about what hyperindependence is and
they talk about what that looks like in relationships and
what that looks like with trauma, because you know, we
love talking about trauma.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah, that's what we talk about.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
In that Sandstone article, it says hyperindependence in a woman
is where she cannot or will not accept help preferring
to do it all herself and typically creates a strong,
superhuman persona. I know you know what we're talking about people.
I know you know because again I felt attacked.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
I know you do too.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
Hyperindependence is often a childhood trauma response, though societal messaging
and conditioning are also worthy culprits, so it may not
necessarily completely trauma. We're talking about neglect, we're talking about abuse.
Obviously extreme neglect is high key in this too, but

(02:04):
also just societal messaging and conditioning. So we know, as women,
we are told that we need to be responsible or caretakers,
and we get that at a very young age. So
even if you think you had the normalism of the
relationships and normalist of childhood experiences being handed at baby
doll or being handed cookware and such, couldn't imply that

(02:25):
you were supposed to care for other people. So you
should care for only yourself, not necessarily need help. You've
got to teach yourself right right. Of course, It continues
stemming from situations that led her to believe she could
only rely on herself to meet her knees or get
things done. Somewhere along the way, she found trusting in
others too difficult or too painful. Over time, this belief

(02:51):
leads to her needing greater control over her outcomes and
external circumstances. So I must say type a people here
when we talk about the need to make anything perfect
or look perfect, or do it right the first time,
no mistakes whatsoever, because if you make a mistake, it
shows that you're a lesser person. Again, this is me

(03:11):
calling myself out as well, because I'm one of those
like if I think I'm not going to be good
at it, I will never do it. You will not
get me to do it. I will sit there and
stare at you look a like a like I'm sleeping
like a zombie, because I'll be like, nah nah, if
I don't look good, I'm not doing it.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
I think it's very obvious.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
That sometimes when we when we're telling our kids to
shake it off, like there's a balance in these things.
But if you're overly dependent on your child, and when
we talked about with parentified kids, this is going to
be what is led the hyperindependence.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
And again but not great, not great.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
So here are some of the common signs of high
for independence, which include mistrusted others, perfectionism, avoiding dependence on others,
little to no close relationships, not wanting to ask for help,
anxiety and depression, taking on too many responsibilities, stress and burnout,
and difficulties in relationships.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
How are we doing? Anny? What are you saying? I'm
taking it for both of us. I'm just saying it
for both of us.

Speaker 3 (04:30):
I've been reading this one, so I'm like, you haven't,
so I'm checking in with you.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
This is my first hearing about this, and I yeah,
I'm a little like. Also, interestingly, we did kind of
talk about this. We didn't use this terminology, but in
our last Sex and the City with Maya, with Miranda
being so determined to not like.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
Need any help.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
So I think that's an interesting part of it too,
because I discussed in their part of my mis trust
in relationships is with guys, is that if I tell
you I just want to be friends, you're not taking
me seriously. And so if I do trust you to
do a thing, then it's going to be like, but
I did this thing for you, right, which I thought

(05:16):
was a friend thing, and now I'm finding out you
did not think so.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
Whoops.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
Yes, And by the way, so we're going to talk
what happens in relationships. But yes, so if we see
it as a hyperindependence as a form of a trauma response,
here's what they say. Individuals who have experienced trauma may
have had people in their life that emotionally or physically
abuse them, didn't meet their emotional needs, risk their safety,
or were unreliable or absent. These things can cause a

(05:48):
person to depend on themselves to survive and make them
feel that they cannot trust or rely on anyone else.
So I've talked about reactive attachment disorder. This could be
a key point in people being hyper independent as well.
Sometimes it goes the other way, it gets hyper codependent,
and we're not talking about that yet.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
That might be a follow up Monday many I don't know. Now.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
I will say that this is not a formal diagnosis,
and again it's considered more of a trauma or a
stress response. So so you know, it can stem from
PTSD when a person goes through traumatic experience and then
learns or feels that they cannot trust others.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
Like we said before, and.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
This is the one that's calling me out, Individuals with
hyper independence may have a fear of abandonment, often because
someone in the past was absent or abandoned them, or
several people's constantly where I was just handed it around
and shipped to a different country. Anyway, because of this,
they might avoid building close relationships with others in order

(06:58):
to minimize or prevent the chances of that person abandoning them.
It could be the very like match, I'm gonna leave first,
so you don't leave me right because hell NOA And
some of the symptoms that happen with this hyperindependence trauma
is feeling shame if they have to ask someone for help.

(07:19):
Have you ever had that moment where you're like raising
my hand it's for a class, for anything. My heart
would race and I would have to like think the
sentence out four times before I.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
Evend even think about asking that question. Do you have?

Speaker 3 (07:35):
This also isolation, depression of feeling unworthy or undeserving of support, anxiety,
thoughts of self harm, and substance abuse.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
And again this is of.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
Course a little more in depth in that you haven't
gotten treatment, you haven't gotten any help, any therapy rather,
And I find that interesting because yes, this is something
that a lot of women have to the point that
they would much rather I think that's this whole double conversation,

(08:09):
like they would much rather be alone because they're tired
of being disappointed because they have been taught that eventually
you will be disappointed.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, yeah, And I do think there is a a
lot of conditioning around asking for help with women of
it being It's interesting because there's almost two sides of
the coin, right. There's the feminist part where we're like
I don't need anybody, which is not healthy, but we've
had to learn to do that. But then there's the

(08:42):
other side where it's like you don't want to be
a quote nag, like you don't want to bother people,
so it's almost like you can't win. Yeah, And I
do think a lot of people, a lot of women,
for that reason those reasons, have taken it on themselves.
And I know I've done this to be that like

(09:02):
I'm not going to bother anybody, but also I don't
need anybody. It's a strange straddling of yeah, I can
do this on my own, right, but also I don't
want to ask for help because you might get mad
at me.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
Right, right, right.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
And I think it's interesting because they talk about what
this looks like in relationships. So again, this is from
the Brains article and they say in relationships, the impact
on intimate relationships is that hyperindependent women don't allow their
partner to help because it feels unsafe and equates to
them a lack of control. She's so used to being
a strong, independent woman and with anything that underminds her

(09:37):
belief in herself is often and vehementally rejected. The irony
is many hyper independent women are craving for someone, anyone
to come and help, rescue or support them, if you
can openly admit that. So I hate the term rescue.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
I hate. I hate it with all my might.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
And again this is as you were talking about in
that Sex in the City episode, She's like, no, no,
no rescue.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
She literally says no rescue. Ye in that level.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
And I am this similar way. I will say, since
being in this relationship where I've finally gotten comfortable and
I know that they are going to be around, and
I've been with them for more than five years, it
took a long time for me to be like, oh,
it's kind of you're gonna give me my coffee, okay?

(10:27):
Because I often like, and I still do, like, it's
kind of funny. I'm the one who'll make it every morning.
I'm the one that still cooks a lot more dinner.
I've taken it on myself more so than that has
been an expectation again, because this is that need to
be independent, but show you that you need me more
than I need you.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Right, yeah, yeah, I did that too. I don't feel
great in my case. I don't feel great about it
looking bad because I was definitely being like I've been
fine without you.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
I don't know what you do without me.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
But a point of pride for like for me as
well that I'm like to understand this is a choice
and I'll be good without it. But at the same time,
I really do appreciate it, and when I receive it,
I'm like, what is this?

Speaker 1 (11:13):
What is this?

Speaker 3 (11:14):
Oh me, like like that's kind of that moment.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Uh yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:29):
And that article goes on to say the truth you
are not the burden that you think you are. Another
truth you need to let your partner support you. And
that's the conversation against support, support and compromise. That's the
biggest point that I think we sometimes forget. And this
is where the anti feminists jump in and be like, see.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
Look look at you.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
You can't you don't need a man and you don't
need these things.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
And eventually I'm like, yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:59):
But we also like them. Like, it's not because we're
not saying to be a feminist you have to not
have these things, right, we're saying that it's hard to
find people who can be these things.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yes, yeah, that whole idea is pretty pretty ridiculous because again,
it should be an equal partnership, equal support. Right, it's
not the rescue as you were saying, like the guy
rescuing you are all of these other sexist societal expectations
that are at play, whether we want them to be

(12:31):
or not, because that's this is where we were raised. Right,
So yeah, it's ridiculous to me when people are like, ah,
you like having a partner, Wow.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
A relationship you want to Like, there's this conversation and
I don't know how we've lost it again.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
I don't know why.

Speaker 3 (12:49):
Maybe it's because that narrative keeps popping back up of
like if you don't if you cook, if you are
staying at home mom, if you choose to do these things,
you're not a feminist.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
That's the conversation. Again.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
We want to throw it back to the original, like
when we were talking about women wanting to be able
to get jobs and these things, there were many women
who were already having jobs and they would love to
have the option of being able to be the stay
at home mom or any of those things, and they
are not being able to have the equitability to do so.

(13:24):
Like this is that conversation. Equality and equitability is the forethought,
not what you can and cannot do. That's such a
trivial ideal. And with that, having a supportive partner that
you can lean on is a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful thing.
Not the way they take all of this, like it's

(13:45):
not all this one sided conversation.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
Is it hard? Yes?

Speaker 3 (13:51):
Is it still hard for those who we would loudly say,
I am a feminist, but I take care of the
household stuff a little too much because I just do.
Again in this that level of like I can do
by myself. I don't need you, but I do need you,
but I do Like it doesn't necessarily have to be
the need you, it's the want you. In this conversation again,

(14:14):
and I like that they say the truth, You're not
the burden that you think you are, And more often
than not, that is the fear that drives us to
go overboard for me specifically, and I've said that to
many people. I've had to explain if you don't invite
me to something, I don't show up because I assume

(14:35):
you don't want me there, And oftentimes it's more of
the oh, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Just automatically thought you knew you were invited type of conversation.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
You're better explicitly invite me, because if not, I'm gonna
say they don't want me or they don't and then
that job, since doude they don't like me, I'm annoying
that fire again.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
The spiral that happens.

Speaker 3 (14:56):
And then that same article says learning to ask for
help and allowing your partner to do things for you
is vital to unwinding the belief you created all.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
Those years ago.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
As you you're ultimately learning to trust again. And yeah,
that's that big conversation. Trust that this person will be
there for you, Trust that you are worthy of support,
and that it does not take anything away from you.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Is that balance? If I let this person do this
for me, does it make me look weak? Yeah? Or
is that allowing me to be loved? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (15:33):
And I think also to going back to a recent episode,
a recent happy hour you did. It can manifest in
friendships as well, and sometimes in the in my case
in the like not asking for help, some of my

(15:54):
friends are actually kind of hurt by that, like, you know,
like so it it is a balance, like if I
don't truly wanted any help, and I'm good, that's one thing.
But if I'm not asking for it because I don't
want to bother you, and then the friend finds out,
it's like, well I could have helped, that would have
been fine, right, And then they're they're feeling kind of like, well,

(16:17):
they feel kind of bad because I don't trust them
and I have to ask. So there's like no real
easy answer in that. But just I it is a
balance of asking yourself. You know, it would be nice
to have help. There are people that would be happy
to help me. Yes, Annie, it's yes, Samantha. Also, well,

(16:44):
thank you for coming down this road with me. And
eventually I think we are going to come back to
the hyper codependence, which is the opposite reaction. But I again,
like I said, I saw this on TikTok and I
was like, well, I got called that.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
I'm gonna call everybody else out too, as as you should.
That's silent goes well, y'all with me. Thanks for doing that.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
Well, listeners. If you have any thoughts on this, please
let us know. You can email us at Stuff Media, Mom,
Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on
Twitter at mosta podcast, or on TikTok and Instagram at
stuff I Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. We
have a tea public store, and we have a book
you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as
always too, our super producer Christina, our executive producer, and

(17:31):
our contributor Joey. Thank you, and thanks to you for
listening stuff I Never Told you this prediction of iHeart Radio.
For more podcasts on my heart Radio, you can check
out the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to Babe

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