June 5, 2023 • 18 mins
Why do we self-deprecate? What does it have to do with women and trauma specifically? Will Anney and Samantha ever be able to attend a party without making a podcast about it again??
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this Sanny and Samantha and what good to stuff?
When ever told your protection of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And welcome to another edition of Monday Mini, where we
just do whatever we want essentially from ten to fifteen minutes,
maybe even twenty who knows.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
And today is my turn.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
So I had an interesting conversation just recently and which
it ended with them saying you're being too self deprecating,
and I had a moment of like, wait, so we've
been talking about this books that we've been going through.
I've talked plenty of how I have a lot of
anxiety when it comes to my speech and or being
(00:56):
on a podcast or being seen in general. Have a
huge anxiety about being live. So we whenever we're asked
to do anything live, I literally have a panic attack
at that point in time.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
And there's a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
There's a lot that as someone who has gone through
a lot, I have many, many of mental health stuff
that I have to address constantly. And you know, you know, ID,
you and I have talked about the fact that for us,
because it's most likely trauma related, it's not something that's
just going to disappear. It's not something that we can
like let go of, or breathe through, or take a
(01:30):
medicine just get past it, I guess, because there's a
lot to these types of trauma that has a reactionary
thing in order to be self protecting, I guess in
a matter of ways, and self deprecation is something that
I do use as a way of coping and or
(01:53):
as a way of interacting with people, because I do
have a lot of anxiety around people, performance anxiety, all
the things.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I've got it.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
As in fact, talking about this right now is making
my heart pound a little heavier, a little faster, to
the point that I also decrease my caffeine intake because
I think it affects how I perform or and or
the anxiety when I perform or do anything in general.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Anything, yeah, anything.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
So it's interesting because I've talked to other women, as
in fact, past hosts have talked about their own issues
like this and the fact that they actually took something
for it before they would performed. I'm mean prescribed, not
just like self medicating. It really is prescribed.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I had a.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Friend who was an artist and had severe anxiety, and
she was prescribed like I believe blood dinners, but very
low dosage because it's supposed to be like you know,
the constriction of the heart makes it more like that
your nervous system reoverreact all these things. I'm sure people
are out there like, that's not how it goes. You
can let me know how it goes, but you know,
(03:00):
just a matter of fact that it is a thing.
And honestly, it's been more with women that actually talk
about it, not necessarily that have it, but I have
talked about it, like I've not talked to many men
who've talked about these things, or they don't acknowledge it.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Perhaps I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
But again, so last night we did we had a
social event. I do not go out for social things,
and is again after the pandemic, I think I've gotten
so much worse. I am that type of introvert that
can perform and socialize and be on it as you
would say, if I need to be, but it is
(03:37):
so exhausting for me that I have to go home
for like a couple of days by myself to recharge
because it took a lot of energy for me to
get to that point. I think my threshold for that
has gotten smaller.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
So I'm a little bit anxious about that.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
But a part of the being on thing is self deprecating,
and that term did come out in a way that
I was talking about being very nervous about doing something,
or doing the audiobook. When it comes to podcasting, Christina,
our super producer, is amazing and very patient in making
sure that we don't sound like battling, you know, incoherent people,
(04:16):
and I love her for that. So knowing that she
does that makes me feel a lot better because she
does make us sound good. It's just me and you,
right Annie, when we record, there's no one else president
I am in a dark room essentially with Annie, and
so therefore I feel a lot better, or at least
a little more confident. And I still stumble quite a
bit even when it's two of us, but I'm not
(04:38):
as anxious about that. But so, we were talking about
doing the book where we were going to be in
a legit studio with a producer in front of us
that we've never worked with, that this is their expertise.
They work with actors, they work with voice actors, they
work with professional readers, and then also having someone in
our ear directing us and being told podcasters are really
(05:02):
surprised by this process because it's so different from podcasting.
So all of that makes me really, really, really anxious
reading a book again. I still have the you know
you can't do this in the back of my head.
So I was just talking about how I was very
anxious and talking about the differences and why I'm anxious,
and because it was kind of a flip that you
(05:23):
can do this, and I'm like, yeah, you think you can,
but you don't understand that leading up to this is
making me feel so over the top anxious. The building up,
the expectations in my head, the fear of failure, it's
right on top of me. And I know you feel
this too. To the point that we've talked about that
I think I maybe have symptoms of knocker websy because
(05:45):
I've been exhausted for no reason. I've just been sleepy
the entire last week, to the point my partner's like,
you were sleeping more and I'm like, yeah, yeah, this
is not a good sign. I think this is happening
because of these things, and I found that interesting when
they're like, oh, you're just being self deprecating. I can't
(06:06):
deal with this and walked away, and I kind of
had a moment of like being pissed off, and I
was like, okay, I get it. I get and people
don't want to be around to someone who is negative
all the time. And I have gotten that accusation, and
they're not wrong. I am a pessimistic individual when it
comes to things. Part of that is that, you know,
because I am afraid to fail.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
So therefore, if I.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Bring it out and I am wrong and I don't fail,
then that's a great surprise. But if I do fail,
you're not surprised, and I already set that up kind
of like double whammy. Like being a pessimist to me
has always been the way to go because if it
goes better than you think, then you're going to be rewarded.
If it goes as you expected, then you just met
your expectations. So there you go, win when but not
(06:49):
when when type of moment. And it also made me
think about the fact that what is self deprecation? Where
does it come from? Who uses it?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
And I did.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I found some articles that I think is interesting because
I my Google, I said, hey, what's trauma, self deprecation?
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Women?
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Those are my key words. And here's something that one
of the articles said talking about women and self deprecation
and how they use it. It says part of the
reason that might be used is because of trauma. So
here's the article. It says trauma and survivors of many
different forms of trauma such as life threatening accidents, events,
sexual abuse, emotional trauma, and generational trauma typically have low
(07:28):
self esteem before trauma, and individual usually believes in their
ability to exercise good judgment and stay safe. However, after
a traumatic experience, much of that trust is destroyed, which
can leave the person to feel doubt, fear, helplessness, shame,
and feeling they are to blame all eroding self esteem.
So I thought that was an interesting article because it's true,
(07:50):
just as if like the blank canvas thing everybody comes
out with outside of mental health stuff, the idea that
you are confident in yourself where you don't know that
you can't do it, that's not a thing. But if
you have been decimated your emotions, your safety, then.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
That is destroyed.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Whatever was there, it's probably been damaged by whatever traumas
you've gone through. A lot of people, including myself, as
a way of defensiveness is to be self deprecating because
at the very least you control that narrative no matter
how negative it sounds. And I thought that was interesting
(08:30):
as a way of having a conversation of like, yeah,
I get that this can.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Be really wearing and you really want.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
To correct it, but having someone immediately be like, stop
doing that to yourself. It's not really helpful. It's not
something that comes off with love. You're being criticized for
a defense mechanism that you built to survive trauma. Now,
should we go through just hating ourselves and go through
(08:56):
self deprecation?
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Of course not.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
That's not what I'm saying at all. But the conversation
also comes back to the fact that self deprecation may
not be as bad as everybody wants to say that
it is. And I say this in like a way
of understanding how we cope. So if this is something
that we have to use to cope, it is a
survival tactic once again, and that needs to be understood
(09:21):
and not dismissed. There was a conversation, and I think
this was applying to men more so than women, because
there was a comparison about the fact that when men
use self deprecation, they're rewarded as being humble, and when
women use self deprecation, they are showing that they are lesser,
they're proving the lesser of themselves. So I found that
interesting as well. So when I did see articles, it
(09:43):
says self deprecation may not be as bad as you think.
It was referring to the fact that it can seem
like it's humility. You're able to lead well with self
deprecation because you're able to show your own faults and
show how to lead that way. So of course this
was applied to men in typical order. That was one
article when a woman was talking about a comedy and
(10:03):
that fact that she put the you know, like had
a moment in Instagram and it was self deprecating, and
many people came in like, you're not this, You're not that, No,
you're wonderful, all these things, and then one person saying,
you know, when you do this, you really make yourself
look bad and women look bad, which pissed her off,
and I understandably because she's like, but this is not
about you. This is about me and the way that
(10:26):
I feel, the way I needed to express myself today,
and the self deprecation may not be what you think
it is, just because I use words that seem like harsh,
it may be a legitimate thing, like I have to
use this to myself in order to know that I'm.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Okay, weirdly enough.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
So there was a whole level of that process that
came through because I was like, you know, I get
it because I will always use self deprecation. That is
not something that I will ever be able to let
go of ever. That won't be a thing. But being
even if it is in the most negative light, if
I'm doing it in the like I am really self
(11:06):
harming by using this thing. Having someone come at me
and tell me I'm wrong and I'm doing something wrong
not helpful. And I really had that moment like, Wow,
I'm not again being a negative Nelly.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Sorry, Nelly's out there in the world. Your name Nelly.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
It's not rolling around so angry at me.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
I cannot believe you pulled that out of a hat.
That was one of the first I thought, to be fair,
I do think of Nelly.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah, there's this whole conversation that like, we really need
to understand and and have a deeper understanding of trauma
and what it is and and the fact that people
do cope differently and being dismissive of it, especially when
it comes to anxiety, and especially when it comes to
(12:05):
something that I am really nervous about, like it is
I'm gonna have to take something to sleep the night before,
I think prescribed, prescribe something because I think it's overwhelming
for me, even though after it, I'm gonna think that
it's so silly that I was that freaked out.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
You know.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
But to this point, this is where I am, and
to dismiss it as if I'm wrong does not help.
Only it only builds up the anxiety I already had.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Right, there's a lot of things in this conversation that
remind me of other things we've talked about around, like,
for instance, filler words and saying sorry and how women that,
(13:02):
and then the articles that come out that are you know,
largely from written by men and or just from a
very corporate perspective that it's like, don't do that. It
makes you look weak, it puts you in a weaker position,
and it's like it's not necessarily we're once again just
(13:23):
putting how men do things at the top and when
how women do them, were ignoring or judging them by
how men use them. And this is all very gendered
and stereotypical, but it's true, like with the way women
say sorry has been different than the way men do it.
And it is a very conversational thing, and it is
(13:44):
very much just of like hey, I'm with you, I
see you, or it is a very something from trauma
of like hey, I mean no harm. Like there's a
bunch of other things going on that can't fit into
like a five point business art that's like, hey, stop
doing that because they'll never get.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
A raise, right, But that's the other part of that
is like it's not what we have said, it's just
just existing that in itself has already given us, you know, disadvantage,
so it doesn't matter what we do and playing the
game and having that conversation because if you're too confident,
then you may not get that either, and then you
(14:25):
become the And it's interesting too because the same conversation
about being humble and all that they talked about, women
use self deprecation to actually take up space like this
is the way that they actually are able to talk
about themselves and something about themselves. And I'm like exactly
that this is a bigger part, like I'm able to
express how I feel and how anxious I am through
(14:47):
this kind of conversational way that it seems harmful sometimes,
and it can be harmful sometimes. I mean I think
anything can be harmful. Being too confident can be harmful.
But like having that conversation that maybe women are using
self deprecation to take up space, whether it's the right
way or the wrong way, but they're doing something in
(15:08):
order to balance out that weight essentially, And I thought
that was interesting too, because like exactly it's it may
not be the way you would want it to go,
but they're doing it right.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yeah, Yeah, And I mean I think that there's a
lot of points to that too, of just all the
other things we get told of. You know, you can't
be too confident, and being self deprecating is a way
to take up space in that. And because you can't
be too confident, so here is a way I can
like talk about myself right but not be the right
(15:44):
It's just like so much going on of kind of
very strategic and like almost instinctive of like I have well,
I couldn't. I couldn't get this when I was confident,
So let me try this way.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Right, And that's the thing. It's like, I think we
have to be really careful. And again there's a difference
being harmful and intervening because you are worried because of
whatever reason, but also the tactic that you use. Are
you pushing someone away, are you pulling someone in? Or
are you telling them to be quiet? Essentially, and that
(16:20):
kind of happened if it felt like.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
I needed to be quiet mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
So yeah, those are my thoughts.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
All right, there you go.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah, if you want more information about some of the
articles I've been reading, uh, let us know.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
We'll definitely send it to you.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
But again, if you do look up all of those keywords,
it does have to do list of how not to
do that and how harmful it can be. And again
I'm not saying it's not, because yes, there's there's a
level for sure, But I also think there is the
other side that we don't talk about too often about
what why, why we do this and why we should
accept it to a certain degree.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Right, yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, I tell you before
when we were talking about this. These parties always bring
out we're not used to interacting with anyone anymore.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
It's a whole social project now.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
It is our next party, well, what will be discussing
so well, listeners, If you have any thoughts about this,
you can let us know. You can email us a
Stepania mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find
us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram
and TikTok at stuff I've Never Told You. We're also
on YouTube. We do have a book coming out. You
(17:40):
can re order it at stuff you should read books
dot com. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina,
our executive producer Maya, and our contruder Joey.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Y'all are amazing.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Thank you, yes, and thanks to you for listening. Step
I Never told you. Restriction of I Heart Radio. For
more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check out
the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or where have
you listen to your favorite shows
Hey, this Sanny and Samantha and what good to stuff?
When ever told your protection of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And welcome to another edition of Monday Mini, where we
just do whatever we want essentially from ten to fifteen minutes,
maybe even twenty who knows.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
And today is my turn.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
So I had an interesting conversation just recently and which
it ended with them saying you're being too self deprecating,
and I had a moment of like, wait, so we've
been talking about this books that we've been going through.
I've talked plenty of how I have a lot of
anxiety when it comes to my speech and or being
(00:56):
on a podcast or being seen in general. Have a
huge anxiety about being live. So we whenever we're asked
to do anything live, I literally have a panic attack
at that point in time.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
And there's a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
There's a lot that as someone who has gone through
a lot, I have many, many of mental health stuff
that I have to address constantly. And you know, you know, ID,
you and I have talked about the fact that for us,
because it's most likely trauma related, it's not something that's
just going to disappear. It's not something that we can
like let go of, or breathe through, or take a
(01:30):
medicine just get past it, I guess, because there's a
lot to these types of trauma that has a reactionary
thing in order to be self protecting, I guess in
a matter of ways, and self deprecation is something that
I do use as a way of coping and or
(01:53):
as a way of interacting with people, because I do
have a lot of anxiety around people, performance anxiety, all
the things.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I've got it.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
As in fact, talking about this right now is making
my heart pound a little heavier, a little faster, to
the point that I also decrease my caffeine intake because
I think it affects how I perform or and or
the anxiety when I perform or do anything in general.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Anything, yeah, anything.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
So it's interesting because I've talked to other women, as
in fact, past hosts have talked about their own issues
like this and the fact that they actually took something
for it before they would performed. I'm mean prescribed, not
just like self medicating. It really is prescribed.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I had a.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Friend who was an artist and had severe anxiety, and
she was prescribed like I believe blood dinners, but very
low dosage because it's supposed to be like you know,
the constriction of the heart makes it more like that
your nervous system reoverreact all these things. I'm sure people
are out there like, that's not how it goes. You
can let me know how it goes, but you know,
(03:00):
just a matter of fact that it is a thing.
And honestly, it's been more with women that actually talk
about it, not necessarily that have it, but I have
talked about it, like I've not talked to many men
who've talked about these things, or they don't acknowledge it.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Perhaps I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
But again, so last night we did we had a
social event. I do not go out for social things,
and is again after the pandemic, I think I've gotten
so much worse. I am that type of introvert that
can perform and socialize and be on it as you
would say, if I need to be, but it is
(03:37):
so exhausting for me that I have to go home
for like a couple of days by myself to recharge
because it took a lot of energy for me to
get to that point. I think my threshold for that
has gotten smaller.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
So I'm a little bit anxious about that.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
But a part of the being on thing is self deprecating,
and that term did come out in a way that
I was talking about being very nervous about doing something,
or doing the audiobook. When it comes to podcasting, Christina,
our super producer, is amazing and very patient in making
sure that we don't sound like battling, you know, incoherent people,
(04:16):
and I love her for that. So knowing that she
does that makes me feel a lot better because she
does make us sound good. It's just me and you,
right Annie, when we record, there's no one else president
I am in a dark room essentially with Annie, and
so therefore I feel a lot better, or at least
a little more confident. And I still stumble quite a
bit even when it's two of us, but I'm not
(04:38):
as anxious about that. But so, we were talking about
doing the book where we were going to be in
a legit studio with a producer in front of us
that we've never worked with, that this is their expertise.
They work with actors, they work with voice actors, they
work with professional readers, and then also having someone in
our ear directing us and being told podcasters are really
(05:02):
surprised by this process because it's so different from podcasting.
So all of that makes me really, really, really anxious
reading a book again. I still have the you know
you can't do this in the back of my head.
So I was just talking about how I was very
anxious and talking about the differences and why I'm anxious,
and because it was kind of a flip that you
(05:23):
can do this, and I'm like, yeah, you think you can,
but you don't understand that leading up to this is
making me feel so over the top anxious. The building up,
the expectations in my head, the fear of failure, it's
right on top of me. And I know you feel
this too. To the point that we've talked about that
I think I maybe have symptoms of knocker websy because
(05:45):
I've been exhausted for no reason. I've just been sleepy
the entire last week, to the point my partner's like,
you were sleeping more and I'm like, yeah, yeah, this
is not a good sign. I think this is happening
because of these things, and I found that interesting when
they're like, oh, you're just being self deprecating. I can't
(06:06):
deal with this and walked away, and I kind of
had a moment of like being pissed off, and I
was like, okay, I get it. I get and people
don't want to be around to someone who is negative
all the time. And I have gotten that accusation, and
they're not wrong. I am a pessimistic individual when it
comes to things. Part of that is that, you know,
because I am afraid to fail.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
So therefore, if I.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Bring it out and I am wrong and I don't fail,
then that's a great surprise. But if I do fail,
you're not surprised, and I already set that up kind
of like double whammy. Like being a pessimist to me
has always been the way to go because if it
goes better than you think, then you're going to be rewarded.
If it goes as you expected, then you just met
your expectations. So there you go, win when but not
(06:49):
when when type of moment. And it also made me
think about the fact that what is self deprecation? Where
does it come from? Who uses it?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
And I did.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I found some articles that I think is interesting because
I my Google, I said, hey, what's trauma, self deprecation?
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Women?
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Those are my key words. And here's something that one
of the articles said talking about women and self deprecation
and how they use it. It says part of the
reason that might be used is because of trauma. So
here's the article. It says trauma and survivors of many
different forms of trauma such as life threatening accidents, events,
sexual abuse, emotional trauma, and generational trauma typically have low
(07:28):
self esteem before trauma, and individual usually believes in their
ability to exercise good judgment and stay safe. However, after
a traumatic experience, much of that trust is destroyed, which
can leave the person to feel doubt, fear, helplessness, shame,
and feeling they are to blame all eroding self esteem.
So I thought that was an interesting article because it's true,
(07:50):
just as if like the blank canvas thing everybody comes
out with outside of mental health stuff, the idea that
you are confident in yourself where you don't know that
you can't do it, that's not a thing. But if
you have been decimated your emotions, your safety, then.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
That is destroyed.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Whatever was there, it's probably been damaged by whatever traumas
you've gone through. A lot of people, including myself, as
a way of defensiveness is to be self deprecating because
at the very least you control that narrative no matter
how negative it sounds. And I thought that was interesting
(08:30):
as a way of having a conversation of like, yeah,
I get that this can.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Be really wearing and you really want.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
To correct it, but having someone immediately be like, stop
doing that to yourself. It's not really helpful. It's not
something that comes off with love. You're being criticized for
a defense mechanism that you built to survive trauma. Now,
should we go through just hating ourselves and go through
(08:56):
self deprecation?
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Of course not.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
That's not what I'm saying at all. But the conversation
also comes back to the fact that self deprecation may
not be as bad as everybody wants to say that
it is. And I say this in like a way
of understanding how we cope. So if this is something
that we have to use to cope, it is a
survival tactic once again, and that needs to be understood
(09:21):
and not dismissed. There was a conversation, and I think
this was applying to men more so than women, because
there was a comparison about the fact that when men
use self deprecation, they're rewarded as being humble, and when
women use self deprecation, they are showing that they are lesser,
they're proving the lesser of themselves. So I found that
interesting as well. So when I did see articles, it
(09:43):
says self deprecation may not be as bad as you think.
It was referring to the fact that it can seem
like it's humility. You're able to lead well with self
deprecation because you're able to show your own faults and
show how to lead that way. So of course this
was applied to men in typical order. That was one
article when a woman was talking about a comedy and
(10:03):
that fact that she put the you know, like had
a moment in Instagram and it was self deprecating, and
many people came in like, you're not this, You're not that, No,
you're wonderful, all these things, and then one person saying,
you know, when you do this, you really make yourself
look bad and women look bad, which pissed her off,
and I understandably because she's like, but this is not
about you. This is about me and the way that
(10:26):
I feel, the way I needed to express myself today,
and the self deprecation may not be what you think
it is, just because I use words that seem like harsh,
it may be a legitimate thing, like I have to
use this to myself in order to know that I'm.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Okay, weirdly enough.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
So there was a whole level of that process that
came through because I was like, you know, I get
it because I will always use self deprecation. That is
not something that I will ever be able to let
go of ever. That won't be a thing. But being
even if it is in the most negative light, if
I'm doing it in the like I am really self
(11:06):
harming by using this thing. Having someone come at me
and tell me I'm wrong and I'm doing something wrong
not helpful. And I really had that moment like, Wow,
I'm not again being a negative Nelly.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Sorry, Nelly's out there in the world. Your name Nelly.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
It's not rolling around so angry at me.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
I cannot believe you pulled that out of a hat.
That was one of the first I thought, to be fair,
I do think of Nelly.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah, there's this whole conversation that like, we really need
to understand and and have a deeper understanding of trauma
and what it is and and the fact that people
do cope differently and being dismissive of it, especially when
it comes to anxiety, and especially when it comes to
(12:05):
something that I am really nervous about, like it is
I'm gonna have to take something to sleep the night before,
I think prescribed, prescribe something because I think it's overwhelming
for me, even though after it, I'm gonna think that
it's so silly that I was that freaked out.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
You know.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
But to this point, this is where I am, and
to dismiss it as if I'm wrong does not help.
Only it only builds up the anxiety I already had.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Right, there's a lot of things in this conversation that
remind me of other things we've talked about around, like,
for instance, filler words and saying sorry and how women that,
(13:02):
and then the articles that come out that are you know,
largely from written by men and or just from a
very corporate perspective that it's like, don't do that. It
makes you look weak, it puts you in a weaker position,
and it's like it's not necessarily we're once again just
(13:23):
putting how men do things at the top and when
how women do them, were ignoring or judging them by
how men use them. And this is all very gendered
and stereotypical, but it's true, like with the way women
say sorry has been different than the way men do it.
And it is a very conversational thing, and it is
(13:44):
very much just of like hey, I'm with you, I
see you, or it is a very something from trauma
of like hey, I mean no harm. Like there's a
bunch of other things going on that can't fit into
like a five point business art that's like, hey, stop
doing that because they'll never get.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
A raise, right, But that's the other part of that
is like it's not what we have said, it's just
just existing that in itself has already given us, you know, disadvantage,
so it doesn't matter what we do and playing the
game and having that conversation because if you're too confident,
then you may not get that either, and then you
(14:25):
become the And it's interesting too because the same conversation
about being humble and all that they talked about, women
use self deprecation to actually take up space like this
is the way that they actually are able to talk
about themselves and something about themselves. And I'm like exactly
that this is a bigger part, like I'm able to
express how I feel and how anxious I am through
(14:47):
this kind of conversational way that it seems harmful sometimes,
and it can be harmful sometimes. I mean I think
anything can be harmful. Being too confident can be harmful.
But like having that conversation that maybe women are using
self deprecation to take up space, whether it's the right
way or the wrong way, but they're doing something in
(15:08):
order to balance out that weight essentially, And I thought
that was interesting too, because like exactly it's it may
not be the way you would want it to go,
but they're doing it right.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yeah, Yeah, And I mean I think that there's a
lot of points to that too, of just all the
other things we get told of. You know, you can't
be too confident, and being self deprecating is a way
to take up space in that. And because you can't
be too confident, so here is a way I can
like talk about myself right but not be the right
(15:44):
It's just like so much going on of kind of
very strategic and like almost instinctive of like I have well,
I couldn't. I couldn't get this when I was confident,
So let me try this way.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Right, And that's the thing. It's like, I think we
have to be really careful. And again there's a difference
being harmful and intervening because you are worried because of
whatever reason, but also the tactic that you use. Are
you pushing someone away, are you pulling someone in? Or
are you telling them to be quiet? Essentially, and that
(16:20):
kind of happened if it felt like.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
I needed to be quiet mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
So yeah, those are my thoughts.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
All right, there you go.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah, if you want more information about some of the
articles I've been reading, uh, let us know.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
We'll definitely send it to you.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
But again, if you do look up all of those keywords,
it does have to do list of how not to
do that and how harmful it can be. And again
I'm not saying it's not, because yes, there's there's a
level for sure, But I also think there is the
other side that we don't talk about too often about
what why, why we do this and why we should
accept it to a certain degree.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Right, yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, I tell you before
when we were talking about this. These parties always bring
out we're not used to interacting with anyone anymore.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
It's a whole social project now.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
It is our next party, well, what will be discussing
so well, listeners, If you have any thoughts about this,
you can let us know. You can email us a
Stepania mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find
us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram
and TikTok at stuff I've Never Told You. We're also
on YouTube. We do have a book coming out. You
(17:40):
can re order it at stuff you should read books
dot com. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina,
our executive producer Maya, and our contruder Joey.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Y'all are amazing.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Thank you, yes, and thanks to you for listening. Step
I Never told you. Restriction of I Heart Radio. For
more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check out
the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or where have
you listen to your favorite shows
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