September 11, 2023 • 33 mins
Anney and Samantha dish on the phenomenon of tricking people into dates (oopsi-dating), and some of our own experiences around it.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome to Stefan ever told you protection of iHeartRadio? And
welcome to another edition of Monday Many. This is one
I have many strong opinions about. I have a lot
(00:28):
of experience with, and I'm excited to talk about it
because it turns out I am not alone.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
You are not.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
No, because today we were talking about trick dates or
surprise dates, something that you might not have seen as
a date, but it turns out it was a date.
This was inspired by and no spoilers, only murders in
the building. The most recent season features an arc where
(00:57):
Selena Gomes his character is tricked into a date and
it was framed as something sort of romantic and ultimately successful,
which made me actually shout at the TP. So I
wanted to talk FYI.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
This is a Sex and the City episode. Oh really, yep?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Are we close? How long do I have to wait
before we?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Just wait a minute, I'll remind you.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Okay, perfect? I mean I all have thoughts again, yes,
and just uh fun aside. I actually really enjoy the show.
They're not a sponsor or anything currently, but they have before,
right I think, yes, I believe they have and it does.
It's like about a podcast, So that's kind of fun.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
It is funny, is it real? No? No, in a
wide open room as if they're doing stand up comedy.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yes, yes, yes, but it's kind of fun to get
to critique it in that way. Also, I'm I'm going
to say ninety percent sure I know who it is
in this season and it's wild and bonkers. But also
they have a plat point that's driving me wild. It's
so clear to me, as someone with low self esteem
(02:07):
what's going on, but no one seems to get it.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Oh that's funny. I haven't started the new season. There's
so many US domestic shows that I have not watched
because I'm still caught up in let me only do
Korean dramas hoping that I'm going to learn by osmosis,
and it's not working. By the way, it's I am
understanding more and I know when that translation is wrong,
but it's not working to that effect. But Netflix is
real bad about it.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, their translations are typically always a little off. I
will say they do have like Asian people like I
think Korean people to actually translate it, but it's still
kind of off anyway. Back to I haven't watched any
of because I haven't watched The Bear. I've only seen
a couple of episodes. I haven't watched only Murders, which
I was really into. And we haven't even watched the
(02:53):
last season Ted Lasso, I'm behind.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I haven't watched that in any there, but that's largely
due to what I have subscription wise. Yes, Also, what
we do in the Shadow is just ended.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Oh yeah, I know I saw that that had a
double uh two finalee episode fin Yeah, I need to
I need to get so we need to get on
that too. There's so many, so many.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, well, I am excited to hear your thoughts about
this whenever you finally get God. I do want to
say before we go into this there, I do think
there is a difference between something that sort of becomes
a date that is mutually agreed upon, vocally mutually agreed upon,
(03:38):
Like you're like, oh, this, okay, this feels like a date.
Maybe that wasn't what you intended. I usually that happens
after the fact, where you're in my experience where you're like,
oh that was a date and you're like, oh, yeah,
that you have that conversation though, like it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
A trick like you get like you hang out accidentally
and then that ends up being a date like that's
I've never.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
No no no no no. So you it would be like
you go out and you have a really good time,
maybe bowling or something like, you have a really good
time and afterwards you're like, was that a date, like
kind of joking like was that a date? And the
other person's like, yeah, I feel like that was a date.
Like it's much more like you kind of realize in it, like, oh,
this was fun and I think we could date.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
It's more of a like, okay, so saying that you're
mutually attracted, yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yes, right, but that I think that's the key is
like both people go in not thinking it's a date.
Maybe they maybe they think like maybe it could be,
but it's not like a, oh, this is definitely a date.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
So you come into a hang knowing that this person
is there, and then the hang is so good and
you to connect, well this was our first date type
of thing, yes, okay, yes.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
But vocally talk about it. You vocally agree about that.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Verbally, yeah, vocally verbally a lot.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Maybe I'm sorry, I don't.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Apologize, like she's trying to say verbally, I guess.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah, who knows. You know, that's the fun of podcasting,
only it's true. That's what I mean though, is like
you say it aloud and you agree, yes, yes, I do.
I also think there is a difference between a misunderstanding
and tricking someone into a date. That's a little bit murkier.
But I think that that can't happen too. I think
(05:21):
that sometimes you can be like, oh, you think something's
a date, another person doesn't. But it's less that you're
trying to trick them to get them there and then
make it a date. It's more that maybe one person
thought it was and the other person thought it wasn't.
I think that's different than what we're talking about today.
In this episode of Only Murders in the Building, he
(05:44):
says allowed, you know. To his credit, he says, alowed,
like I tricked you here because I wanted a date.
So at least he admitted it. I know. I'm glad
you agree, but that was not seemingly the vibe on
the show. So trick dates are much more of a
purposeful one person, usually the man. Although I did find
(06:08):
a lot of hilarious articles about men saying women keep
trying to trick me into dating and I'm like, but baby, baby,
But usually it's a dude who has like some kind
of way, a plan premeditated of like getting a woman
to go on a date, and then from there it's
(06:30):
supposed to sort of snowball. There's actually kind of a
really funny this came up in conversation recently because there's
a joke episode in my version of Sex and the
City Seinfeld where this guy tricks Elaine into dating him
by saying Dustin Hoffin was in Star Wars, which obviously
(06:52):
he knew was a lie, and it's like if you know.
She was like, no, if you're wrong, and he said, well,
if I'm wrong, then we'll go on I have dinner,
and he knew he was wrong. But then somebody created
a fake video that went wild on Twitter recently where
it was like Dustin Hoffmann was in Star Wars. He wasn't,
(07:13):
but it was very convincing video. So the conversation came
up again. But it's like a very there are tactics
involved like that, there's like this way of getting someone
to go with you, and then the hope is that
it will lead to your dating. And so I actually
found some tactics that were from Madame Noir and it
(07:36):
was very much like don't do this. This was not
some like Men's health, like how to do it. It
was like, these are the tactics people use to be clear,
and I thought we would just run through them because
almost all of them all was like yep, see it,
seen it. The first one going from a group to
(07:57):
a solo. Hang, yeah, yes, okay, So I had this.
I've had this happen more than once. But the most
egregious was this guy who told me in college. He
was like, it's gonna be We're gonna have a study group.
We're going to practice I believe it was German language.
And I was like, okay, yeah, cool. And then I
get there and not only it, did some everyone else
(08:21):
mysteriously cancel. He was like, let's go have dinner, and
then he didn't have money or his BuzzFeed card, so
I had to pay that. So that was our our
buzzcard was so at Georgia Tech, it's called a buzzcard.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Okay, not a card, yeslistical thing.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
It's been a long time. He's my buzz card's good.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I'm sorry, so I had to pay for his meal.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
And then at the end he was like, do you
want to go get dinner sometime? And he what he
his tactic was he knew I'd never been to this
local restaurant that's famous, and I wanted to go. I'd
expressed I wanted to go, and he's like, we can
go there, which has been used against me more than once.
People find out what I want to do and they're like,
(09:13):
I'll go.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
With you, yeah, and then try it happened to you
often to the point that I'm like.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Don't go anywhere.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Why are you doing this? You know what he's doing.
He's not trying to just be a friend.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Sometimes they are, Oh.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yes, even when you think they're being your friend, they're
still just trying to test the waters.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Hmmm mm hmmm. Yeah, yeah, but that's it. That's the
unfortunate thing is like, this is probably the tactic that
works the most on meme is like, here's an event
I know you would want to go to, and I
want to go to. Let's go together, and I do
want to go, so it's like, yeah, I'll go with you.
(09:57):
And then the next thing, you know, the next thing,
you know, you're dating.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Congratulations, you were in a relationship you didn't want to
be in.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Or didn't know you were in. Yes, that's kind of
the key of it is, it's never communicated. It's never
ever communicated. I have had people where we've had a
conversation at the end and I was like, no, I
didn't want this to be a date, and that it
worked out. But a lot of times they'll never even
(10:30):
bring that up, like it's just like, oh, I told
everyone we're dating. I'm like, really, that's news to me.
So weird because then now you have to break up,
like it's a way of like trapping you in, right, Yeah,
because ultimately, and I do get this to some extent,
(10:50):
it's like a fear of rejection. So you're sort of,
as you said, testing the waters. But that feels so
manipulative of like.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
That's not we're dating. That is controlling mm hmmm. That's
a like power play. I'm not giving you a choice.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
And now you've got to talk to their friends and
be like, ah, no, we aren't dating. Like the next
one is posing as a career. Ally, this has happened
(11:27):
to me, and it sucks a lot of these next
few ones are about jobs. So this has happened to me.
In acting, especially, a will pose as like, Okay, we're
gonna help you, you know, because it's such a competitive field.
We'll help you get this or this or this, or
I'll introduce you to my contacts or whatever it is.
(11:49):
And I had a guy who was supposedly like pretty
high up. I have my doubts looking back, but he
seemed like he was. And he was telling he was
trying to give me a lesson on like kissing, and
he shoved me against the wall and kissed me and
said like this is, you know, good for you, Like
this is you have to learn how to act, and
(12:11):
had to be passionate. And I walked home and I
cried the whole way because that was when I was like, okay,
that guy, because he asked me to dinner, I thought
it was a career thing, and it just became clear.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Like oh yeah, that happened to me once too.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
They asked to have lunch, and he was the dude
that was like thirty years older than me. I had
a kid, probably close to my age, and I was like,
what's going on? I thought you were just telling me
how to become a counselor, right, and then he asked
me on another date and I was like, we had
a date one what?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Right? Wait a minute, what, let's back up a second.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
That's a really popular one, and it's really unfortunate because.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, a lot of these are like very much border
along the lines of the people who are going to
kidnap or rape you, especially assault you. Like literally all
of these things, right, sound like this borderline like cuter
version right right? What people isolate you to do? These
things have power over you to like exploit you.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah. Well the next one is posing as a career mentor,
which was related, and I think that feels a lot
more like that's your boss who's like, oh, I'm taking
special interest in you. I can help you learn this,
this and this, and then that becomes like, well if
you stay after, we can go have dinner and do this.
(13:38):
But it's much it's not about mentoring you, it's about
getting you into a relationship. I have also had that
happen in acting. I kind of had it happen early
on in my days as an intern, but luckily I
was near some people who shut it down really quick,
really quick, so always appreciate when you have a good
(14:02):
support of friends who are looking out. And then this one,
I bet a lot of people can relate to pretending
it's about the hobby. So I feel like this one
is a bit murky in terms of a lot of
times you can meet people over a hobby and you
bond over that, and maybe you do decide to date
over that. But going back to that trickery aspect, that's
(14:26):
sort of the key is like, I just want to like,
there's even been kind of a joke, you know that
people will pick up hobbies just to date certain people.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
I still like the recent I don't know what that is,
but I'm willing to try it to you, right, and
him being so far off of what it was, You're like, Bro,
it's so bad that means a be this is gross.
(15:02):
I'm just wrong with your thinking it a hobby art kink.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Right, Yeah, that's the way off. Oh boy, oh dear,
and I have had I've had plenty of examples of this.
I think one of the biggest ones I've talked about
before is when I if anyone finds out I like
Marvel or Star Wars, then I'm like the coolest, not
like other girls. Person I can imagine D and D
(15:28):
was the same, and in fact, I was in a
very ill fated It wasn't a relationship, but it was something,
and it was based on D and D, and it
was kind of being used to make this relationship happen
that I again was like wait what WHOA? And then
(15:51):
I had a guy ask me once because I was complaining.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
So this.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
I was complaining about how men back when I was
running would stop me to talk to me, and I
would get so annoyed because I'm like, I'm running, like
this is not I'm not looking to have a conversation
right now. And one time a guy asked me out,
he like stopped me and asked me out, and I'm
like no, And the person I was talking to, who
was a dude, was like, so there can't be, Like,
(16:19):
there's no instance that would work, And we got into
an interesting conversation about that where it was like not
for me because like that just feels so disruptive. But
he was saying like, well, this guy must have been
so moved and he had to talk to you right then,
and I was like, well all he did was annoy me,
(16:41):
so go work.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
This is when like the language barrier was like very apparent. Again,
like between the women's expectations and wants and men's expectations
and wants, was like, especially what the heteronormative ideas. Yeah,
and then you put in queer people and this is
a whole different language in itself. You're like, yeah, you
don't understand, and this is why this is a problem, right.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Well, and that was it was one of the things
that I was like, yeah, I guess this guy thought
that was romantic. But women, you know, as women we've
talked about in a running episodes, you can get bettapped
just running around like you're always on edge. So this
guy coming up to me, I was immediately like, oh, right.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
What you think is cute feels very like threatening to us, right.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yes, yes, Like you felt confident enough to make sure
I stopped when I had like headphones in and was running,
was in the zone to stop me and ask for
a date.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
And then when you don't know me all you see me, yeah,
and I you know.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Not that it matters, but I didn't look great.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Well, there's so many questions to being just instead of
like wanting to get to know I guess I guess
that's what they say dating is, and my mind dating
is a little more official, yeah than that than the
getting to know you part. Maybe the whole world of
online dating has messed up my uh point of view.
But like to come up be like I'm attracted to
(18:04):
you from jump Like right, this seems insincere or you
seem like you have some other agenda and it's not.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Cute right right, because like how much could you know
from just somebody running?
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Right? You know nothing about me. I don't know if
I'm in a relationship. And again like you're trying to
take a chance, but not the way we like it, no,
most of us.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Yeah, and when it comes to like the tricking of
the date. I did have a guy who started running
because of me, and he started asking for let's run together,
which I hate running together. Yeah, I hate.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Running with people. It makes me anxious. And then like
they don't keep up with me, I have to stay put.
If I can't keep up with them, I feel bad
for them.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Right. Yes, I've always said to people who like want
to run with me, I'm like, well, you can run
at the same time, but we're not running together, Like
I'm going to do my face.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
That's it what I get people into doing races with me.
I'm like, yeah, we're just gonna go right, We'll wait,
I'll find you at the endpoint.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Right, yep. I think that's the way to go with
something at But apparently that is not romantic. I did
if people were laughing at me once when I was
I kissed my ex boyfriend before the peach She Road
race and then he went way to the back and
I went way to the front, and people laughed at me,
and I was like, no, if I have this front
starting wave, I'm not going back the hell.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Thanks, I earned the spot. All done.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
It's hot here, jeez. But yeah, I think to their credit,
I am surprised they ran as much as they did
and that they kept up with it. But damn, like
that's kind of it's a lot of effort to put
it it is. Another tactic is saying that they need
(19:53):
career help. I have gotten this one as well. Luckily
for me in that case, I was so like oblivious
to it that I think that person gave up. They
were like, Okay, this is not gonna work. Another asking
for dating advice, and yes, I have gotten this one
(20:15):
a lot, or how you like sex, or your opinions
about dating and sex. These are all sort of like,
let's come closer, have this conversation, and then let's see
if I could make this a date.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
I inadvertently flirt with that I don't mean to, I
apparently have. I've been told by friends who if I'm
not interested in you, I apparently seem very flirty. And
this is for women and men. I've been like, because
I'm just if I'm comfortable with you, I'm gonna tease you.
I'm gonna do all these things, and then I'm going
to try to help you if you like a person.
(20:53):
And I in my mind, I'm just being natural. But
that seems flirty. And I did not know that to
the point that my partner and I that at that
very beginning was our relationship. I was trying to help
him out with a girl. He still thinks I was flirting,
and I'm like, I really wasn't.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
It ended up like we ended up because he took
that sign of flirting, but I was like, huh, I
really wasn't.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yeah, I mean that's going back to your like we're
almost like speaking different, we're on different ways.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
I heard it's a libra thing to do. Okay, apparently
because I if I I'm that person that if I'm
shy and getting nervous around you, that's how you know
I like you because I'm trying too hard and I'm
very nervous and I probably would just stare at you
and run away. But if I'm very confident in like
just teasing giggly, yeah, I don't have interest in you,
(21:43):
and just has gotten me in trouble a lot. I
did not realize this.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah yeah, uh, me too. And I feel like there's
a weird thing that happens where it's sort of going
back to that testing the waters where dudes will be
like I had this one guy who just asked me
randomly like when is your favorite time to have sex? Yeah,
and I'd be like this time. And there's a weird
thing that's going on where it's like I'm trying to
(22:08):
not be a frud. I also am not interested, but
I feel like it's that like, Okay, she's down, she's
down to So that is definitely one I've seen. Another
posing as your friend. This one can also get messy
because sometimes a lot of times you start out as
(22:28):
friends and then it becomes a relationship. It's more that
going in you one person always wanted it to be
a relationship or realized that they did and then never
said anything. This is one of the this I've probably
experienced this one the most, and it frustrates me because
(22:51):
this episode of Only Murders in the Building had this
like exact thing where I wanted to go to a
fancy restaurant and this guy I was like, oh, yeah, yeah,
I've always wanted to go to let's go. I dress
up because it's a fancy restaurant. I later found out
everyone on his side was like, well she wore that
dress obviously it was a date, Like no, I could
(23:11):
dress just for me one, but two it has a
dress code like I.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Was literally I had to follow the rules, me saying
we're on a date. Right. There's so many things, and
this is where the idea that men and women, especially
in the heteronormative ideas or environment cannot be friends.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
M hmm.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
That's where it comes from.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
It does come from me, and it's.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Like part part society, part expectations, part hope, like egerness,
like falling into it like well naturally we should be
like my good guy friend and I who before he
got married into a serious relationship, we were always paired
together and like, why don't y'all date? Why don't y'all date?
And the explanation is, we love each other, but we
would kill each other as a real life couple. Like
(24:01):
the understanding is sure, sure, sure, we are very similar,
we are fun, we make everything fun, we have great chemistry,
but we also understand the levels that we have with
each other, and it wouldn't work. And I think it
did come to the point that at one point in time,
at the very beginning of our friendship, one of us
(24:22):
may have had that failing right, but it never but
it just passed by. So again that's that level of like, so,
can you truly be just friends your guy friend?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yes? And I've had some very interesting conversations with my
guy friends about that.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
And again that's the things like when they're in a relationship,
you think you can yes, but then.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Yes, more often than not thousand times yes, I'm so
often like, well, obviously they're in a committed relationship. I
don't need to worry. Nope, should have been worried. Another
(25:07):
one of the tactics listed was looking for a shoulder
to cry on. This could be complaining about their significant
other partner. I have definitely had this, And then I've
had the very galling experience of me and trying to
talk about my feelings and being dismissed. So it's very
much like, oh, well, you were there for me, so
(25:27):
it means this to me, you must really care. But
then when I'm trying to like have a reciprocal friendship, no,
I don't want to hear about your earish or I'm
owed because I sat there and listened to you, right, yep, yep.
Another one asking for shopping advice. I have definitely gotten
(25:48):
this one. I'm surprised it came up on the list,
but yeah, yep. It's like I don't know anything about fashion.
Can you please come help me? Okay, I don't really
know either.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Let's go right, I'll tell you what looks good.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Right. And then it becomes this date that you went
on the plus one trick, which is, yeah, it's exactly
what it sounds like. It's you know, I don't want
to go to the setting alone when you come with me,
and then yep, you're you're dating now. I guess.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
The twickest with the again, with all of these things
because I've also done it with just friends. Yeah, and
it's been fine. So the fine part is we know
that the line has already been established, so all of
that is fine. And then but then like, yeah, that's
that whole level of they're new. That's when you should
be really like hesitant, like I have only met you
for two weeks. This is not gonna work, right.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
There's also this one maybe laugh offering to help fix something. Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
I'm not gonna lie all these things I've done with
my partner at the very beginning of our relationships, like everything.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Well, see again, it goes back to it is tricky,
but it is that very specific, like you're going in
with another intention in mind, as opposed to something that
just happens naturally, right, or that you discuss. So I
actually have a really funny story about this. My ex
boyfriend just ended up staying at my apartment a lot,
(27:21):
and I wouldn't let him sleep in my bed because
we weren't dating at the time. He was friends. And
eventually I was like, I guess I'll get like another
a futon in case people stay and I'll have a
and he came over to help me set it up,
and here I am oblivious Annie not realize he's like
(27:44):
intending he's helping me set up this futon for him
to sleep on when that's not what he wanted.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Right right, But I mean that's a clear sign. We're like, no,
you sleep here because we're friends. So I feel like
you should have known. And if he didn't, he was
too pushy.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yeah, well I still have this day.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, he just didn't want to accept it.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Mm hmmm. And again this one, like there's a there's
that joke in the office about you know, how Jim
knew how to drive stick but he like pretended he
didn't so he and Pam could spend more time together.
I do think that that there is a way to
do it where it's not so nefarious and tricksy, but yeah,
it can definitely be a tactic. And another one I
(28:34):
you'd love my other woman friend. I have seen this one.
I've seen this one where it's like you would be
good friends with my friend and it's and the usually
the woman friend is in on it. She knows that
this is supposed to be a date, and she's like facilitating.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
She's a wingman. M hm, wing woman.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Yes, then there's letting you show him the ropes, which
is sort of like the office thing, golfing.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yes, let me show you how to hold the golf club.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
The fitness buddy, which we've already kind of talked about,
and then the pet play, which is I didn't know this,
it's called dog fishing.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
But it's like, yes, I've seen that one.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yes, yes, So there's a multitude of tactics people employ.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
There's so many things to this because it could be
like the like, yes, this is the friendly, flirty side,
and then this could get dark very quickly. It's such
a wide range and wide scope of usage for these things.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah. Well, and it made me think about like, because
I also can be flirty. I enjoy flirting, but for
me it doesn't necessarily mean anything, and I get that
that can be confusing. Like I totally do get that,
And I've even joked about my friends have said they
would make a business card that's like it's not interested.
But a part of a part of the problem is
(30:04):
we've talked about it before. But this idea like we
can't reject the man outright get mad and this very
head noormaive sense because you're afraid you feel like you
have to let them down easy, and so I feel
like something. There's two things that are largely at play,
two major forces, which is this like fear of rejection.
I need a woman, how do I trick her into dating?
(30:29):
And then on the other side, in very heteronormal of sense,
the woman feeling like she has to be kind of
flirty or kind of playful or something like can't let
him down outright, has to be So it's just coming
together in a real mess to the real mess and
kind of being romantic. It's done major TV shows.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Right, interesting, I mean it's always been a trope this whole. Yeah,
it is friend lovers uh huh, neighbor delivers, like any
of these things. I'm a common stations and you know
women have used some of these things as well, and
the queer people use these things as well, like come
fix this for me, Come do this for me? Can
you do this? Oh I'm helpless again? Not a bad
(31:11):
thing if it's consensual, yeah, and there's already play but
like yeah, typically strangers doing this is odd. Yeah, and
if you've already been rejected once, try to trick them.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yes, And it's very much in the like like what
we've talked about with in cels in kind of the
con man space, like the pickup artist kind of thing.
This is much more that and much less like I
don't know your friend who's kind of you've been friends
for a while. Maybe one of you is like, maybe
there's something here, like that's a there. There is nuance
and differences in this conversation, but this is like the
(31:44):
deliberate I will I can trick this person to.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Die, me right saying, try to trick you into dating someone? Yes,
which has happened to me. Yeah, boyfriend, oh dear, kind
of funny, kind of poor guy.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Fo car. Well, clearly we had a lot to say.
This one went a little longer, but I just when
I saw that plot point, I was like, but yeah,
I'm sure listeners a lot of you can relate. If
there's one we missed, or if you have any stories
you'd like to share. You can contact us in a
(32:28):
variety of ways. You can email us at Stephania mom
Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on
Twitter at Momstuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at
stuff I Never told you. We have a tea public
store and a book that you can get at stuff
you should read books dot com. Thanks as always to
our super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya, and our
contributor Joey.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Thank you and thanks to you for listening.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Stefan Never Told You is production of by Heart Radio.
For more podcasts on my heart Radio, you can check
out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast wherever you listen
to your favorite shows,
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome to Stefan ever told you protection of iHeartRadio? And
welcome to another edition of Monday Many. This is one
I have many strong opinions about. I have a lot
(00:28):
of experience with, and I'm excited to talk about it
because it turns out I am not alone.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
You are not.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
No, because today we were talking about trick dates or
surprise dates, something that you might not have seen as
a date, but it turns out it was a date.
This was inspired by and no spoilers, only murders in
the building. The most recent season features an arc where
(00:57):
Selena Gomes his character is tricked into a date and
it was framed as something sort of romantic and ultimately successful,
which made me actually shout at the TP. So I
wanted to talk FYI.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
This is a Sex and the City episode. Oh really, yep?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Are we close? How long do I have to wait
before we?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Just wait a minute, I'll remind you.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Okay, perfect? I mean I all have thoughts again, yes,
and just uh fun aside. I actually really enjoy the show.
They're not a sponsor or anything currently, but they have before,
right I think, yes, I believe they have and it does.
It's like about a podcast, So that's kind of fun.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
It is funny, is it real? No? No, in a
wide open room as if they're doing stand up comedy.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yes, yes, yes, but it's kind of fun to get
to critique it in that way. Also, I'm I'm going
to say ninety percent sure I know who it is
in this season and it's wild and bonkers. But also
they have a plat point that's driving me wild. It's
so clear to me, as someone with low self esteem
(02:07):
what's going on, but no one seems to get it.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Oh that's funny. I haven't started the new season. There's
so many US domestic shows that I have not watched
because I'm still caught up in let me only do
Korean dramas hoping that I'm going to learn by osmosis,
and it's not working. By the way, it's I am
understanding more and I know when that translation is wrong,
but it's not working to that effect. But Netflix is
real bad about it.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, their translations are typically always a little off. I
will say they do have like Asian people like I
think Korean people to actually translate it, but it's still
kind of off anyway. Back to I haven't watched any
of because I haven't watched The Bear. I've only seen
a couple of episodes. I haven't watched only Murders, which
I was really into. And we haven't even watched the
(02:53):
last season Ted Lasso, I'm behind.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I haven't watched that in any there, but that's largely
due to what I have subscription wise. Yes, Also, what
we do in the Shadow is just ended.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Oh yeah, I know I saw that that had a
double uh two finalee episode fin Yeah, I need to
I need to get so we need to get on
that too. There's so many, so many.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, well, I am excited to hear your thoughts about
this whenever you finally get God. I do want to
say before we go into this there, I do think
there is a difference between something that sort of becomes
a date that is mutually agreed upon, vocally mutually agreed upon,
(03:38):
Like you're like, oh, this, okay, this feels like a date.
Maybe that wasn't what you intended. I usually that happens
after the fact, where you're in my experience where you're like,
oh that was a date and you're like, oh, yeah,
that you have that conversation though, like it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
A trick like you get like you hang out accidentally
and then that ends up being a date like that's
I've never.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
No no no no no. So you it would be like
you go out and you have a really good time,
maybe bowling or something like, you have a really good
time and afterwards you're like, was that a date, like
kind of joking like was that a date? And the
other person's like, yeah, I feel like that was a date.
Like it's much more like you kind of realize in it, like, oh,
this was fun and I think we could date.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
It's more of a like, okay, so saying that you're
mutually attracted, yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yes, right, but that I think that's the key is
like both people go in not thinking it's a date.
Maybe they maybe they think like maybe it could be,
but it's not like a, oh, this is definitely a date.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
So you come into a hang knowing that this person
is there, and then the hang is so good and
you to connect, well this was our first date type
of thing, yes, okay, yes.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
But vocally talk about it. You vocally agree about that.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Verbally, yeah, vocally verbally a lot.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Maybe I'm sorry, I don't.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Apologize, like she's trying to say verbally, I guess.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah, who knows. You know, that's the fun of podcasting,
only it's true. That's what I mean though, is like
you say it aloud and you agree, yes, yes, I do.
I also think there is a difference between a misunderstanding
and tricking someone into a date. That's a little bit murkier.
But I think that that can't happen too. I think
(05:21):
that sometimes you can be like, oh, you think something's
a date, another person doesn't. But it's less that you're
trying to trick them to get them there and then
make it a date. It's more that maybe one person
thought it was and the other person thought it wasn't.
I think that's different than what we're talking about today.
In this episode of Only Murders in the Building, he
(05:44):
says allowed, you know. To his credit, he says, alowed,
like I tricked you here because I wanted a date.
So at least he admitted it. I know. I'm glad
you agree, but that was not seemingly the vibe on
the show. So trick dates are much more of a
purposeful one person, usually the man. Although I did find
(06:08):
a lot of hilarious articles about men saying women keep
trying to trick me into dating and I'm like, but baby, baby,
But usually it's a dude who has like some kind
of way, a plan premeditated of like getting a woman
to go on a date, and then from there it's
(06:30):
supposed to sort of snowball. There's actually kind of a
really funny this came up in conversation recently because there's
a joke episode in my version of Sex and the
City Seinfeld where this guy tricks Elaine into dating him
by saying Dustin Hoffin was in Star Wars, which obviously
(06:52):
he knew was a lie, and it's like if you know.
She was like, no, if you're wrong, and he said, well,
if I'm wrong, then we'll go on I have dinner,
and he knew he was wrong. But then somebody created
a fake video that went wild on Twitter recently where
it was like Dustin Hoffmann was in Star Wars. He wasn't,
(07:13):
but it was very convincing video. So the conversation came
up again. But it's like a very there are tactics
involved like that, there's like this way of getting someone
to go with you, and then the hope is that
it will lead to your dating. And so I actually
found some tactics that were from Madame Noir and it
(07:36):
was very much like don't do this. This was not
some like Men's health, like how to do it. It
was like, these are the tactics people use to be clear,
and I thought we would just run through them because
almost all of them all was like yep, see it,
seen it. The first one going from a group to
(07:57):
a solo. Hang, yeah, yes, okay, So I had this.
I've had this happen more than once. But the most
egregious was this guy who told me in college. He
was like, it's gonna be We're gonna have a study group.
We're going to practice I believe it was German language.
And I was like, okay, yeah, cool. And then I
get there and not only it, did some everyone else
(08:21):
mysteriously cancel. He was like, let's go have dinner, and
then he didn't have money or his BuzzFeed card, so
I had to pay that. So that was our our
buzzcard was so at Georgia Tech, it's called a buzzcard.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Okay, not a card, yeslistical thing.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
It's been a long time. He's my buzz card's good.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I'm sorry, so I had to pay for his meal.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
And then at the end he was like, do you
want to go get dinner sometime? And he what he
his tactic was he knew I'd never been to this
local restaurant that's famous, and I wanted to go. I'd
expressed I wanted to go, and he's like, we can
go there, which has been used against me more than once.
People find out what I want to do and they're like,
(09:13):
I'll go.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
With you, yeah, and then try it happened to you
often to the point that I'm like.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Don't go anywhere.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Why are you doing this? You know what he's doing.
He's not trying to just be a friend.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Sometimes they are, Oh.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yes, even when you think they're being your friend, they're
still just trying to test the waters.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Hmmm mm hmmm. Yeah, yeah, but that's it. That's the
unfortunate thing is like, this is probably the tactic that
works the most on meme is like, here's an event
I know you would want to go to, and I
want to go to. Let's go together, and I do
want to go, so it's like, yeah, I'll go with you.
(09:57):
And then the next thing, you know, the next thing,
you know, you're dating.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Congratulations, you were in a relationship you didn't want to
be in.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Or didn't know you were in. Yes, that's kind of
the key of it is, it's never communicated. It's never
ever communicated. I have had people where we've had a
conversation at the end and I was like, no, I
didn't want this to be a date, and that it
worked out. But a lot of times they'll never even
(10:30):
bring that up, like it's just like, oh, I told
everyone we're dating. I'm like, really, that's news to me.
So weird because then now you have to break up,
like it's a way of like trapping you in, right, Yeah,
because ultimately, and I do get this to some extent,
(10:50):
it's like a fear of rejection. So you're sort of,
as you said, testing the waters. But that feels so
manipulative of like.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
That's not we're dating. That is controlling mm hmmm. That's
a like power play. I'm not giving you a choice.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
And now you've got to talk to their friends and
be like, ah, no, we aren't dating. Like the next
one is posing as a career. Ally, this has happened
(11:27):
to me, and it sucks a lot of these next
few ones are about jobs. So this has happened to me.
In acting, especially, a will pose as like, Okay, we're
gonna help you, you know, because it's such a competitive field.
We'll help you get this or this or this, or
I'll introduce you to my contacts or whatever it is.
(11:49):
And I had a guy who was supposedly like pretty
high up. I have my doubts looking back, but he
seemed like he was. And he was telling he was
trying to give me a lesson on like kissing, and
he shoved me against the wall and kissed me and
said like this is, you know, good for you, Like
this is you have to learn how to act, and
(12:11):
had to be passionate. And I walked home and I
cried the whole way because that was when I was like, okay,
that guy, because he asked me to dinner, I thought
it was a career thing, and it just became clear.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Like oh yeah, that happened to me once too.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
They asked to have lunch, and he was the dude
that was like thirty years older than me. I had
a kid, probably close to my age, and I was like,
what's going on? I thought you were just telling me
how to become a counselor, right, and then he asked
me on another date and I was like, we had
a date one what?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Right? Wait a minute, what, let's back up a second.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
That's a really popular one, and it's really unfortunate because.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, a lot of these are like very much border
along the lines of the people who are going to
kidnap or rape you, especially assault you. Like literally all
of these things, right, sound like this borderline like cuter
version right right? What people isolate you to do? These
things have power over you to like exploit you.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah. Well the next one is posing as a career mentor,
which was related, and I think that feels a lot
more like that's your boss who's like, oh, I'm taking
special interest in you. I can help you learn this,
this and this, and then that becomes like, well if
you stay after, we can go have dinner and do this.
(13:38):
But it's much it's not about mentoring you, it's about
getting you into a relationship. I have also had that
happen in acting. I kind of had it happen early
on in my days as an intern, but luckily I
was near some people who shut it down really quick,
really quick, so always appreciate when you have a good
(14:02):
support of friends who are looking out. And then this one,
I bet a lot of people can relate to pretending
it's about the hobby. So I feel like this one
is a bit murky in terms of a lot of
times you can meet people over a hobby and you
bond over that, and maybe you do decide to date
over that. But going back to that trickery aspect, that's
(14:26):
sort of the key is like, I just want to like,
there's even been kind of a joke, you know that
people will pick up hobbies just to date certain people.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
I still like the recent I don't know what that is,
but I'm willing to try it to you, right, and
him being so far off of what it was, You're like, Bro,
it's so bad that means a be this is gross.
(15:02):
I'm just wrong with your thinking it a hobby art kink.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Right, Yeah, that's the way off. Oh boy, oh dear,
and I have had I've had plenty of examples of this.
I think one of the biggest ones I've talked about
before is when I if anyone finds out I like
Marvel or Star Wars, then I'm like the coolest, not
like other girls. Person I can imagine D and D
(15:28):
was the same, and in fact, I was in a
very ill fated It wasn't a relationship, but it was something,
and it was based on D and D, and it
was kind of being used to make this relationship happen
that I again was like wait what WHOA? And then
(15:51):
I had a guy ask me once because I was complaining.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
So this.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
I was complaining about how men back when I was
running would stop me to talk to me, and I
would get so annoyed because I'm like, I'm running, like
this is not I'm not looking to have a conversation
right now. And one time a guy asked me out,
he like stopped me and asked me out, and I'm
like no, And the person I was talking to, who
was a dude, was like, so there can't be, Like,
(16:19):
there's no instance that would work, And we got into
an interesting conversation about that where it was like not
for me because like that just feels so disruptive. But
he was saying like, well, this guy must have been
so moved and he had to talk to you right then,
and I was like, well all he did was annoy me,
(16:41):
so go work.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
This is when like the language barrier was like very apparent. Again,
like between the women's expectations and wants and men's expectations
and wants, was like, especially what the heteronormative ideas. Yeah,
and then you put in queer people and this is
a whole different language in itself. You're like, yeah, you
don't understand, and this is why this is a problem, right.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Well, and that was it was one of the things
that I was like, yeah, I guess this guy thought
that was romantic. But women, you know, as women we've
talked about in a running episodes, you can get bettapped
just running around like you're always on edge. So this
guy coming up to me, I was immediately like, oh, right.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
What you think is cute feels very like threatening to us, right.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yes, yes, Like you felt confident enough to make sure
I stopped when I had like headphones in and was running,
was in the zone to stop me and ask for
a date.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
And then when you don't know me all you see me, yeah,
and I you know.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Not that it matters, but I didn't look great.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Well, there's so many questions to being just instead of
like wanting to get to know I guess I guess
that's what they say dating is, and my mind dating
is a little more official, yeah than that than the
getting to know you part. Maybe the whole world of
online dating has messed up my uh point of view.
But like to come up be like I'm attracted to
(18:04):
you from jump Like right, this seems insincere or you
seem like you have some other agenda and it's not.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Cute right right, because like how much could you know
from just somebody running?
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Right? You know nothing about me. I don't know if
I'm in a relationship. And again like you're trying to
take a chance, but not the way we like it, no,
most of us.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Yeah, and when it comes to like the tricking of
the date. I did have a guy who started running
because of me, and he started asking for let's run together,
which I hate running together. Yeah, I hate.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Running with people. It makes me anxious. And then like
they don't keep up with me, I have to stay put.
If I can't keep up with them, I feel bad
for them.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Right. Yes, I've always said to people who like want
to run with me, I'm like, well, you can run
at the same time, but we're not running together, Like
I'm going to do my face.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
That's it what I get people into doing races with me.
I'm like, yeah, we're just gonna go right, We'll wait,
I'll find you at the endpoint.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Right, yep. I think that's the way to go with
something at But apparently that is not romantic. I did
if people were laughing at me once when I was
I kissed my ex boyfriend before the peach She Road
race and then he went way to the back and
I went way to the front, and people laughed at me,
and I was like, no, if I have this front
starting wave, I'm not going back the hell.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Thanks, I earned the spot. All done.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
It's hot here, jeez. But yeah, I think to their credit,
I am surprised they ran as much as they did
and that they kept up with it. But damn, like
that's kind of it's a lot of effort to put
it it is. Another tactic is saying that they need
(19:53):
career help. I have gotten this one as well. Luckily
for me in that case, I was so like oblivious
to it that I think that person gave up. They
were like, Okay, this is not gonna work. Another asking
for dating advice, and yes, I have gotten this one
(20:15):
a lot, or how you like sex, or your opinions
about dating and sex. These are all sort of like,
let's come closer, have this conversation, and then let's see
if I could make this a date.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
I inadvertently flirt with that I don't mean to, I
apparently have. I've been told by friends who if I'm
not interested in you, I apparently seem very flirty. And
this is for women and men. I've been like, because
I'm just if I'm comfortable with you, I'm gonna tease you.
I'm gonna do all these things, and then I'm going
to try to help you if you like a person.
(20:53):
And I in my mind, I'm just being natural. But
that seems flirty. And I did not know that to
the point that my partner and I that at that
very beginning was our relationship. I was trying to help
him out with a girl. He still thinks I was flirting,
and I'm like, I really wasn't.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
It ended up like we ended up because he took
that sign of flirting, but I was like, huh, I
really wasn't.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yeah, I mean that's going back to your like we're
almost like speaking different, we're on different ways.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
I heard it's a libra thing to do. Okay, apparently
because I if I I'm that person that if I'm
shy and getting nervous around you, that's how you know
I like you because I'm trying too hard and I'm
very nervous and I probably would just stare at you
and run away. But if I'm very confident in like
just teasing giggly, yeah, I don't have interest in you,
(21:43):
and just has gotten me in trouble a lot. I
did not realize this.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah yeah, uh, me too. And I feel like there's
a weird thing that happens where it's sort of going
back to that testing the waters where dudes will be
like I had this one guy who just asked me
randomly like when is your favorite time to have sex? Yeah,
and I'd be like this time. And there's a weird
thing that's going on where it's like I'm trying to
(22:08):
not be a frud. I also am not interested, but
I feel like it's that like, Okay, she's down, she's
down to So that is definitely one I've seen. Another
posing as your friend. This one can also get messy
because sometimes a lot of times you start out as
(22:28):
friends and then it becomes a relationship. It's more that
going in you one person always wanted it to be
a relationship or realized that they did and then never
said anything. This is one of the this I've probably
experienced this one the most, and it frustrates me because
(22:51):
this episode of Only Murders in the Building had this
like exact thing where I wanted to go to a
fancy restaurant and this guy I was like, oh, yeah, yeah,
I've always wanted to go to let's go. I dress
up because it's a fancy restaurant. I later found out
everyone on his side was like, well she wore that
dress obviously it was a date, Like no, I could
(23:11):
dress just for me one, but two it has a
dress code like I.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Was literally I had to follow the rules, me saying
we're on a date. Right. There's so many things, and
this is where the idea that men and women, especially
in the heteronormative ideas or environment cannot be friends.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
M hmm.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
That's where it comes from.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
It does come from me, and it's.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Like part part society, part expectations, part hope, like egerness,
like falling into it like well naturally we should be
like my good guy friend and I who before he
got married into a serious relationship, we were always paired
together and like, why don't y'all date? Why don't y'all date?
And the explanation is, we love each other, but we
would kill each other as a real life couple. Like
(24:01):
the understanding is sure, sure, sure, we are very similar,
we are fun, we make everything fun, we have great chemistry,
but we also understand the levels that we have with
each other, and it wouldn't work. And I think it
did come to the point that at one point in time,
at the very beginning of our friendship, one of us
(24:22):
may have had that failing right, but it never but
it just passed by. So again that's that level of like, so,
can you truly be just friends your guy friend?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yes? And I've had some very interesting conversations with my
guy friends about that.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
And again that's the things like when they're in a relationship,
you think you can yes, but then.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Yes, more often than not thousand times yes, I'm so
often like, well, obviously they're in a committed relationship. I
don't need to worry. Nope, should have been worried. Another
(25:07):
one of the tactics listed was looking for a shoulder
to cry on. This could be complaining about their significant
other partner. I have definitely had this, And then I've
had the very galling experience of me and trying to
talk about my feelings and being dismissed. So it's very
much like, oh, well, you were there for me, so
(25:27):
it means this to me, you must really care. But
then when I'm trying to like have a reciprocal friendship, no,
I don't want to hear about your earish or I'm
owed because I sat there and listened to you, right, yep, yep.
Another one asking for shopping advice. I have definitely gotten
(25:48):
this one. I'm surprised it came up on the list,
but yeah, yep. It's like I don't know anything about fashion.
Can you please come help me? Okay, I don't really
know either.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Let's go right, I'll tell you what looks good.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Right. And then it becomes this date that you went
on the plus one trick, which is, yeah, it's exactly
what it sounds like. It's you know, I don't want
to go to the setting alone when you come with me,
and then yep, you're you're dating now. I guess.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
The twickest with the again, with all of these things
because I've also done it with just friends. Yeah, and
it's been fine. So the fine part is we know
that the line has already been established, so all of
that is fine. And then but then like, yeah, that's
that whole level of they're new. That's when you should
be really like hesitant, like I have only met you
for two weeks. This is not gonna work, right.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
There's also this one maybe laugh offering to help fix something. Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
I'm not gonna lie all these things I've done with
my partner at the very beginning of our relationships, like everything.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Well, see again, it goes back to it is tricky,
but it is that very specific, like you're going in
with another intention in mind, as opposed to something that
just happens naturally, right, or that you discuss. So I
actually have a really funny story about this. My ex
boyfriend just ended up staying at my apartment a lot,
(27:21):
and I wouldn't let him sleep in my bed because
we weren't dating at the time. He was friends. And
eventually I was like, I guess I'll get like another
a futon in case people stay and I'll have a
and he came over to help me set it up,
and here I am oblivious Annie not realize he's like
(27:44):
intending he's helping me set up this futon for him
to sleep on when that's not what he wanted.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Right right, But I mean that's a clear sign. We're like, no,
you sleep here because we're friends. So I feel like
you should have known. And if he didn't, he was
too pushy.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yeah, well I still have this day.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, he just didn't want to accept it.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Mm hmmm. And again this one, like there's a there's
that joke in the office about you know, how Jim
knew how to drive stick but he like pretended he
didn't so he and Pam could spend more time together.
I do think that that there is a way to
do it where it's not so nefarious and tricksy, but yeah,
it can definitely be a tactic. And another one I
(28:34):
you'd love my other woman friend. I have seen this one.
I've seen this one where it's like you would be
good friends with my friend and it's and the usually
the woman friend is in on it. She knows that
this is supposed to be a date, and she's like facilitating.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
She's a wingman. M hm, wing woman.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Yes, then there's letting you show him the ropes, which
is sort of like the office thing, golfing.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yes, let me show you how to hold the golf club.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
The fitness buddy, which we've already kind of talked about,
and then the pet play, which is I didn't know this,
it's called dog fishing.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
But it's like, yes, I've seen that one.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yes, yes, So there's a multitude of tactics people employ.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
There's so many things to this because it could be
like the like, yes, this is the friendly, flirty side,
and then this could get dark very quickly. It's such
a wide range and wide scope of usage for these things.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah. Well, and it made me think about like, because
I also can be flirty. I enjoy flirting, but for
me it doesn't necessarily mean anything, and I get that
that can be confusing. Like I totally do get that,
And I've even joked about my friends have said they
would make a business card that's like it's not interested.
But a part of a part of the problem is
(30:04):
we've talked about it before. But this idea like we
can't reject the man outright get mad and this very
head noormaive sense because you're afraid you feel like you
have to let them down easy, and so I feel
like something. There's two things that are largely at play,
two major forces, which is this like fear of rejection.
I need a woman, how do I trick her into dating?
(30:29):
And then on the other side, in very heteronormal of sense,
the woman feeling like she has to be kind of
flirty or kind of playful or something like can't let
him down outright, has to be So it's just coming
together in a real mess to the real mess and
kind of being romantic. It's done major TV shows.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Right, interesting, I mean it's always been a trope this whole. Yeah,
it is friend lovers uh huh, neighbor delivers, like any
of these things. I'm a common stations and you know
women have used some of these things as well, and
the queer people use these things as well, like come
fix this for me, Come do this for me? Can
you do this? Oh I'm helpless again? Not a bad
(31:11):
thing if it's consensual, yeah, and there's already play but
like yeah, typically strangers doing this is odd. Yeah, and
if you've already been rejected once, try to trick them.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yes, And it's very much in the like like what
we've talked about with in cels in kind of the
con man space, like the pickup artist kind of thing.
This is much more that and much less like I
don't know your friend who's kind of you've been friends
for a while. Maybe one of you is like, maybe
there's something here, like that's a there. There is nuance
and differences in this conversation, but this is like the
(31:44):
deliberate I will I can trick this person to.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Die, me right saying, try to trick you into dating someone? Yes,
which has happened to me. Yeah, boyfriend, oh dear, kind
of funny, kind of poor guy.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Fo car. Well, clearly we had a lot to say.
This one went a little longer, but I just when
I saw that plot point, I was like, but yeah,
I'm sure listeners a lot of you can relate. If
there's one we missed, or if you have any stories
you'd like to share. You can contact us in a
(32:28):
variety of ways. You can email us at Stephania mom
Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on
Twitter at Momstuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at
stuff I Never told you. We have a tea public
store and a book that you can get at stuff
you should read books dot com. Thanks as always to
our super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya, and our
contributor Joey.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Thank you and thanks to you for listening.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Stefan Never Told You is production of by Heart Radio.
For more podcasts on my heart Radio, you can check
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