May 29, 2023 • 21 mins
Many women have difficulty expressing boundaries, us included. We talked about recent steps forward and steps back we've had, and the guilt around all of it.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I love good of stuff.
I've never told you pro action of iHeart radio. And
today we have a bit of a shorter Monday Mini
for you, a revisits on boundaries and guilts and women,
(00:25):
which I think is timely because we are going into.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
A holiday weekend, which for.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Us, or I'll speak for myself for me, is often
difficult to maintain boundaries around.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
But I'm trying really hard.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
This time, trying very very hard. Do you have any
any plans for the holiday weekend?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
No, My answer is always though. I'm probably gonna be
doing some KJAMA watching, be working. See this is what
I don't have boundaries because I just work whenever. But
I will be doing some research about k pop, which
is our upcoming episode.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
We'll be doing that pretty soon, releasing that pretty soon.
And there's a lot of things happening in a K
pop world.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
So you know, I'm trying to be all cool and
trendy and keeping up with the latest.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
I'm cool, Anny, I know you are.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I know.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
That's what I always say. That is my cool friend.
That was okay, No, no, I you know me. I'm
gonna be reading and writing fan fiction I do have
to clean.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah, I have to. I have a lot of things
I put off cleaning.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Wise that I sent you some homework, so while you're cleaning,
you could actually be doing your homework.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
But I have to, As I talked about in a
recent happy hour, I believe I have to like sneak
my drain, and I think it's just going to be
so miserable. So I don't know that I want to
associate that you sent me, but yes, yes, I mean
(02:09):
there's plenty of time, plenty of time.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
To do these things. But I've been thinking.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
About boundaries lately, and we've talked about it before several
times on here and my struggle with them, and it
was kind of there was a lot of catalyst for
me wanting to talk about this again, and one was
I think about a month ago you told me you
(02:41):
had you felt some guilt because you had a friend
ask you, you know, hey, can we hang out soon?
And you said, like try middle.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Of June.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
I definitely had this moment because we are really busy
right now, and May is filled with so many things.
Whether I have a lot of people's birthdays in May,
as well as we have events like graduation and all
these things and family get togethers. And then on top
of that, yes, we have an audiobook coming that we
have to record, and we have to take a full
(03:18):
week out. And when we take time off and we're
not really taking time off, this is still work. We
have to plan ahead. And because we release a new
episode almost every day, at least five days a week,
that's so much planning to do, because that doesn't include
us actually researching. And as you know, when we research,
and we've talked about how much information that we get,
how long it really takes.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
There's a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
So a person who haven't seen I think in years,
I want to say, maybe pre covid sit a message
and was like, we'd love to catch up. We want
to talk to you, like it already started. The message
started out bad because apparently she tried to contact me
and I hadn't responded. So her message was, I don't
know if this is still your number. I really hope
it is. Just let me know or I'll stop trying.
(04:01):
And I'm like, oh no, that doesn't mean to It
just happens to be like she's one of those friends
that are in the periphery. I like her, I love
her to death, but I just you know, we don't
hang out like that. And I have such a hard
time even keeping up with the friends that I am
close to. Literally the people that I'm closest to I
probably see every couple of weeks, including you. I don't
think we've hung out like that. We weren't, and I
(04:22):
see you at least twice a week, but that doesn't
mean we're not We're hanging out, and we don't do
that as much, especially since the last of us has stopped, right,
So all of those things, and I'm like, okay, I
really do want to hang out, but that takes a
whole day and all these things.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
So the best thing I could do is second.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Week of June radio silence and so bad because it
doesn't sound it's so snobby, but I'm like, no, but
this is the only way I can do this, and
I have to be honest without putting it aside and
trying to like prush it back and just be nonchalot
about it.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
I'm going to give you a very direct answer. I'm
so sorry.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
See that in our last half hour about sex and
the City, about the double booking. Like a lot of
times I get in trouble with that, not with like dating, yep,
with hanging out with friends. So I feel like you
were doing like a very responsible thing. I do get,
you know, the other side of like middle of June.
But I'm in the boat, the same boat as you.
(05:21):
So after you told me this and you told me
how guilty you felt, and I was kind of like, ah,
it happened to me. So I had recently gone through
this other podcast saver, I'd gone to Vegas and then
I came back and I did Mother's Day and these
are all great things, but I was very like overwhelmed
(05:45):
and stressed and tired. And we have this audiobook coming up.
I'm working on this thirteen days at Halloween. Look I'm
doing the thing I'm about to Okay. So, so I
had a good friend of mine who's been on the
show Katie, like really good friends, and Marissa asked me
to hang out the week I got back from Vegas.
And originally I was like, I think so, like it's
(06:08):
going to depend on work, and then it sort of
became a thing where I was like anxious about it
because I was like I really should say no. Like
I really should say no, I am stressed. I have
all this stuff to do. I should say no. But
as you also know, I've been struggling with like I
don't like the idea of always putting work first. This
(06:28):
is something I do a lot. But anyway, I always
give myself like, once this date comes, I'll be done
with this. Right, once this comes, I'll be done with this,
and then it never ends. But but so they were
kind of like trying to just nail down hey, like
what are we doing?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Are we hanging out with you or are we hanging out?
What are we doing?
Speaker 1 (06:52):
And I said kind of like a text message version
of a meltdown where I just did what I just did,
I did via tech for us, like I have to
do this, and I have to do this, and I
also have to do this, and on top of that,
I have this and you know, they were friends, and
they were very much like Okay, that's a lot. And
then I felt bad. I felt so guilty and I
(07:14):
was like I'm sorry. I know, like I'm complaining about
going to Vegas and they were like no, no, no, don't
worry about it. And I like gave all these excuses
of like I'm so sorry. I just feel bad. I
feel bad, and it actually brought me to tears. I cried,
Oh no, and it was.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
That's what I was like.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
All I did was kind of, you know, maybe sloppily,
but express a.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
Boundary with a lot of guilt and sorry.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yes, yes, And it just made me think because it
has been a struggle. It has been a struggle for
me throughout this whole pandemic, like throughout my whole life,
but like in the pandemic, that was sort of the thing.
I was like, well, I'm not going out anymore, shouldn't
this not be a problem anymore? Like it's still there,
and so this was like an instance of me trying
(08:05):
to do it and I felt so bad that I cried.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
After I get to the point that I'm very stressed
out and in the end, I would rather spend quality
(08:33):
time instead of time that I'm freaking out trying to
plan my next move and trying to get past it,
like literally just checking it off instead of spending quality time.
And if I'm stressed, if I'm thinking about the next moves,
if I'm double booked, or if I'm trying to get
onto the next thing, I'm not spending quality time, and
it does.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
It kind of comes down to a breakdown. You're like,
this is not worth it is.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
I want to see you, but I don't feel like
I'm actually seeing you, right.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
And you know, that's something we've talked about before. Situations
can vary, certainly, but a lot of times people at
least when I what the things I'm thinking of, they
were fine with me being like I can't do it right.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Now, like they were not, I hope, unless they're like
seething secretly, like not like oh this girl, i'mbout behind
the back.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah yeah, I mean, and it can sound the thing.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
The thing also is, though I think it's hard for
me to express the one. Our schedules are not always
predictable in our job, So it's like I can't tell
you for sure right like maybe that day will be fine,
but I'm not sure, which is not a great answer,
(09:48):
Like I get that.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
But also.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Sometimes especially on like days when we've been recording all day,
I can't just go from that to hanging out right.
I need like at least an hour to to kind
of come down from it. Like I said, I get
nervous doing this. Still, it's still kind of a thing
that it's like my brain switches into a different mode.
(10:18):
So I don't want to like leave that and go
right way to hanging out right.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I thought about this the other day. Because we do
work from home, it doesn't look like we're working that hard,
I think, right, because I'm literally just in my guest
room office all day long, and I'm kind of peddling
about listening to music but still working. And then when
I'm done, I leave it. But it looks like that
I'm just doing the same thing again, So I feel
guilty that I'm not doing something else, even though I'm like, no,
(10:46):
but I have worked.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
I've been working.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
It's been work, even though I'm sitting at the computer
and I'm not left my house and yes, I'm still
in pajamas.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Maybe I haven't brushed my hair. I have been working,
you know.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
And it it feels like a whole different tone of
trying to show that that they may have been hard,
even though what it seems like on papers we're staring
at each other through a webcam recording like that's what you.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Know, what I mean, whole different conversation.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
And then when we come with like the anxiety of
the performances that we have to have because essentially speaking
and being published as a performance in itself, that gives
me a lot of anxiety. Having this book coming out
gives me a lot of anxiety. Talking about trying to
produce and read off a book that you wrote in
front of people you've never met in a studio you've
never been to makes me anxious. And even though it's
(11:35):
a couple of weeks away, I'm freaking out like that
all that stuff, and so coming into company, if you
don't understand what I'm saying, this is your You're gonna
be like, why why are you here?
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Then?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Right? Right? I mean, that's true, that's true.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
It's such an interesting like juxtaphysician as well of like
we've talked about this before where I want to be
invited to things and when people tell me they went
to face and I'm like, oh, but also I probably
wouldn't have.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Been in the company, probably didn't want to go.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I get the comment more so than anytime is more like, oh,
I didn't actually think you would come, like the class that.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
I actually showed up.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, yeah, And I think that's part of it too,
of trying to because we do kind of mostly work
from home on our laptops on whatever device in pj's
and I feel like I at least have part of
this is my own doing, because I have said a
(12:43):
true statement, which is I'm pretty flexible because we're lucky
that our jobs in a lot of way, a lot
of ways is pretty flexible, and that I have I
feel like I have let get out of hand like
I they are flexible, but I do have like work
(13:04):
to do, and I think that I guess what I'm
saying is this is not because I read a lot
of articles about boundaries for this episode, and a lot
of it was like people not listening to your boundaries,
which is sometimes what is happening, But a lot of
times it's it's me that has partly been like, hey, no,
(13:26):
I can hang out. I can hang out when I'm
in a good mood. I'm like, oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
And then like later several hours later, I'm like why
did you say?
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Right?
Speaker 4 (13:35):
The quick change like how do I get down this now?
Speaker 1 (13:38):
And then I feel too guilty to get out of it,
which again a lot of people don't care.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
They really don't care.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
I mean it's constant they do care. But it was
like going through. Uh, for sure.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yeah, I think that's that's the big conversation is I've
got I've gotten to the place and maybe it's because
I'm getting into my mid forties and I'm like I
don't care anymore that I'm like, yeah, I'm just gonna
say no, or I'm just not going to say anything
until the last minute so I don't have to commit
to you. And I don't feel bad about it because
I'm like, I'm just going to stay home unless it's
(14:13):
like I will never say no to someone in crisis.
I will never even if it's like feels heavy and
I'm like I don't want to deal with this today,
I will never say no. But if it's not a
crisis and we're just hanging out, and even though I
do want to hang out with you, if that means
extra effort that I don't want to put in, I'm
probably gonna say no and be okay with it.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, which is good. I think that's a good place
to be.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Uh, you're also really good at like, well they would
show up for me, I'll show it for them.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah, you're good at that too.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
That I feel like we have to support, like it it's.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
A give and take.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
I am very dependable in that way. If you've been there,
I'll be there. Mm hmmm, yeah, well noted, thank you.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Yes, I guess this was the first time I felt
such I felt guilt before, but like I've made strides,
but clearly I'm still It's difficult, right, It's difficult, And
(15:20):
I did find some quotes about it. So here's one.
For many people, guilt is a default emotion. No matter
what you do or what you say, you'll be faced
with guilt about the way you handled the situation, and
that isn't fair or accurate. Barelli is said to combat
the guilt you may feel after setting boundaries, figure out
if you're someone who's default is feeling guilty after tough situations,
(15:43):
which I think is a good point, like if so
much of this is kind of internal of like maybe
someone isn't making you feel guilty. Maybe they are, but
maybe they're not, and you just feel guilty. That's something
to examine something else else. So this is heavily related
to our people Pleasers episode that we did, So here's
(16:07):
another quote. A boundary setting is going to be particularly
tough for those who are people pleasers, or if you're
self worth tends to come from meeting the needs of
other people, and I think that is something that I have. Yes,
And the quote goes on for people who fall into
this category and may be hard not to think in extremes,
(16:29):
which could include, is this person still going to want
to be friends with me after I set a boundary?
Really added And this could even bring up concerns like
maybe the relationship only works because I elevate someone else's
needs all the time, she said, And in the case
of boundaries, you're doing the opposite of prioritizing someone else's needs.
You're making your needs the priority and leaving a loved
(16:50):
one's needs unmet. So I feel like this for me,
this is definitely and we've talked about this too, of like, oh,
they'll never hang out with me again if I say no,
Like what will I do? But also a lot of
the conversations we've had around women and selflessness and entertaining
(17:10):
and putting other people first and all of those things
I know, and like when we did our therapy episodes,
I talked about it in there where I was like,
I feel like I'm performing and I just need to
make everyone else happy. And so it's always putting other
people first. But then like when you set a boundary
(17:33):
and quote put yourself first, it feels wrong. It feels
bad just because that's how I've been conditioned. At least,
it feels like selfish to do it. Yeah. I also
found another article about it, saying it's sort of a
(17:53):
trauma matter of safety thing of like you feel like
you can't say no when people ask you to do things,
or in the inverse of like you have to say
no because you're afraid of what will happen if you
do say yes, which is what I've kind of been
talking about with dating, which is why I always felt
like I shouldn't date because I won't be able to
say no to anything.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
But on the like friendship.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Side of like the hanging out side, I've always felt
like I have to say yes. And then they also
brought up the point women afraid rightfully, I would say,
of being called a bitch of you know, you set
up your boundaries and they're like, yeah, you bitch.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Well, we talked about this in our Religious Trauma episode
Women like the constant to command. Constant command to women
is to be selfless, and I feel like this is
the way we've really gone wrong because anything else outside
of that is selfish. There's no in between, and I
think that's growing up religiously. That's what I believe too,
Like I have to give everything of myself to be
(18:54):
grateful and to show that I am grateful and that
I am a godly woman, never saying no. And it
kind of was expected to that in that marriages and
sex in itself, that women can't say no to their husband, like,
it goes a long way. And I think with trauma
added to that, absolutely all about is like, uh, how
can we say no if someone needs something? And if
(19:17):
we say no, that means we are being selfish, unraring
and unkind right, maybe we'll go.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
To hell every time?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Every time? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, So I feel like this was a definitely some
steps forward, but also do you know, more time introspection. Again,
my friends did not make me feel guilty. I just
want to figure about that. It was just me, right, So.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
I got something else to think about, But I did
want to bring it up. I did want to revisit it.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
The articles I was quoting from are was one a
huff Post article called setting Boundaries without Guilt, and then
a Medium article is guilt holding you back from set boundaries.
Guilt resiliency is the answer which I didn't really get into,
but they were talking about, like how just to become
real resilient to guilt. Yeah, so hopefully, hopefully to those listening,
(20:18):
you are working on those boundaries. You've got good boundaries.
You're taking time off, but you can when you want to.
But yeah, if you have any thoughts about this, please
let us know. You can email us at Stephania Mom
Steph at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on
Twitter at most stuff Podcasts, or on Instagram and TikTok
at Steffan' never Told You. You can also fund us
(20:38):
on YouTube. And yes, we do have a book coming out.
You can pre order it at stuff you Should read
Books dot com. Thanks it's always to our super producer Christina,
our executive producer Maya, and our contributor Joey. Thank you,
and thanks to you for listening. Stephan Never Told You.
Disprection of iHeartRadio. For more podcast from my heart Radio,
you can check out the iHeart Radio app Apple podcast
wherever you listen to your Bavish
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I love good of stuff.
I've never told you pro action of iHeart radio. And
today we have a bit of a shorter Monday Mini
for you, a revisits on boundaries and guilts and women,
(00:25):
which I think is timely because we are going into.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
A holiday weekend, which for.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Us, or I'll speak for myself for me, is often
difficult to maintain boundaries around.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
But I'm trying really hard.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
This time, trying very very hard. Do you have any
any plans for the holiday weekend?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
No, My answer is always though. I'm probably gonna be
doing some KJAMA watching, be working. See this is what
I don't have boundaries because I just work whenever. But
I will be doing some research about k pop, which
is our upcoming episode.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
We'll be doing that pretty soon, releasing that pretty soon.
And there's a lot of things happening in a K
pop world.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
So you know, I'm trying to be all cool and
trendy and keeping up with the latest.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
I'm cool, Anny, I know you are.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I know.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
That's what I always say. That is my cool friend.
That was okay, No, no, I you know me. I'm
gonna be reading and writing fan fiction I do have
to clean.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yeah, I have to. I have a lot of things
I put off cleaning.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Wise that I sent you some homework, so while you're cleaning,
you could actually be doing your homework.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
But I have to, As I talked about in a
recent happy hour, I believe I have to like sneak
my drain, and I think it's just going to be
so miserable. So I don't know that I want to
associate that you sent me, but yes, yes, I mean
(02:09):
there's plenty of time, plenty of time.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
To do these things. But I've been thinking.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
About boundaries lately, and we've talked about it before several
times on here and my struggle with them, and it
was kind of there was a lot of catalyst for
me wanting to talk about this again, and one was
I think about a month ago you told me you
(02:41):
had you felt some guilt because you had a friend
ask you, you know, hey, can we hang out soon?
And you said, like try middle.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Of June.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
I definitely had this moment because we are really busy
right now, and May is filled with so many things.
Whether I have a lot of people's birthdays in May,
as well as we have events like graduation and all
these things and family get togethers. And then on top
of that, yes, we have an audiobook coming that we
have to record, and we have to take a full
(03:18):
week out. And when we take time off and we're
not really taking time off, this is still work. We
have to plan ahead. And because we release a new
episode almost every day, at least five days a week,
that's so much planning to do, because that doesn't include
us actually researching. And as you know, when we research,
and we've talked about how much information that we get,
how long it really takes.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
There's a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
So a person who haven't seen I think in years,
I want to say, maybe pre covid sit a message
and was like, we'd love to catch up. We want
to talk to you, like it already started. The message
started out bad because apparently she tried to contact me
and I hadn't responded. So her message was, I don't
know if this is still your number. I really hope
it is. Just let me know or I'll stop trying.
(04:01):
And I'm like, oh no, that doesn't mean to It
just happens to be like she's one of those friends
that are in the periphery. I like her, I love
her to death, but I just you know, we don't
hang out like that. And I have such a hard
time even keeping up with the friends that I am
close to. Literally the people that I'm closest to I
probably see every couple of weeks, including you. I don't
think we've hung out like that. We weren't, and I
(04:22):
see you at least twice a week, but that doesn't
mean we're not We're hanging out, and we don't do
that as much, especially since the last of us has stopped, right,
So all of those things, and I'm like, okay, I
really do want to hang out, but that takes a
whole day and all these things.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
So the best thing I could do is second.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Week of June radio silence and so bad because it
doesn't sound it's so snobby, but I'm like, no, but
this is the only way I can do this, and
I have to be honest without putting it aside and
trying to like prush it back and just be nonchalot
about it.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
I'm going to give you a very direct answer. I'm
so sorry.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
See that in our last half hour about sex and
the City, about the double booking. Like a lot of
times I get in trouble with that, not with like dating, yep,
with hanging out with friends. So I feel like you
were doing like a very responsible thing. I do get,
you know, the other side of like middle of June.
But I'm in the boat, the same boat as you.
(05:21):
So after you told me this and you told me
how guilty you felt, and I was kind of like, ah,
it happened to me. So I had recently gone through
this other podcast saver, I'd gone to Vegas and then
I came back and I did Mother's Day and these
are all great things, but I was very like overwhelmed
(05:45):
and stressed and tired. And we have this audiobook coming up.
I'm working on this thirteen days at Halloween. Look I'm
doing the thing I'm about to Okay. So, so I
had a good friend of mine who's been on the
show Katie, like really good friends, and Marissa asked me
to hang out the week I got back from Vegas.
And originally I was like, I think so, like it's
(06:08):
going to depend on work, and then it sort of
became a thing where I was like anxious about it
because I was like I really should say no. Like
I really should say no, I am stressed. I have
all this stuff to do. I should say no. But
as you also know, I've been struggling with like I
don't like the idea of always putting work first. This
(06:28):
is something I do a lot. But anyway, I always
give myself like, once this date comes, I'll be done
with this. Right, once this comes, I'll be done with this,
and then it never ends. But but so they were
kind of like trying to just nail down hey, like
what are we doing?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Are we hanging out with you or are we hanging out?
What are we doing?
Speaker 1 (06:52):
And I said kind of like a text message version
of a meltdown where I just did what I just did,
I did via tech for us, like I have to
do this, and I have to do this, and I
also have to do this, and on top of that,
I have this and you know, they were friends, and
they were very much like Okay, that's a lot. And
then I felt bad. I felt so guilty and I
(07:14):
was like I'm sorry. I know, like I'm complaining about
going to Vegas and they were like no, no, no, don't
worry about it. And I like gave all these excuses
of like I'm so sorry. I just feel bad. I
feel bad, and it actually brought me to tears. I cried,
Oh no, and it was.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
That's what I was like.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
All I did was kind of, you know, maybe sloppily,
but express a.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
Boundary with a lot of guilt and sorry.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yes, yes, And it just made me think because it
has been a struggle. It has been a struggle for
me throughout this whole pandemic, like throughout my whole life,
but like in the pandemic, that was sort of the thing.
I was like, well, I'm not going out anymore, shouldn't
this not be a problem anymore? Like it's still there,
and so this was like an instance of me trying
(08:05):
to do it and I felt so bad that I cried.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
After I get to the point that I'm very stressed
out and in the end, I would rather spend quality
(08:33):
time instead of time that I'm freaking out trying to
plan my next move and trying to get past it,
like literally just checking it off instead of spending quality time.
And if I'm stressed, if I'm thinking about the next moves,
if I'm double booked, or if I'm trying to get
onto the next thing, I'm not spending quality time, and
it does.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
It kind of comes down to a breakdown. You're like,
this is not worth it is.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
I want to see you, but I don't feel like
I'm actually seeing you, right.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
And you know, that's something we've talked about before. Situations
can vary, certainly, but a lot of times people at
least when I what the things I'm thinking of, they
were fine with me being like I can't do it right.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Now, like they were not, I hope, unless they're like
seething secretly, like not like oh this girl, i'mbout behind
the back.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah yeah, I mean, and it can sound the thing.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
The thing also is, though I think it's hard for
me to express the one. Our schedules are not always
predictable in our job, So it's like I can't tell
you for sure right like maybe that day will be fine,
but I'm not sure, which is not a great answer,
(09:48):
Like I get that.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
But also.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Sometimes especially on like days when we've been recording all day,
I can't just go from that to hanging out right.
I need like at least an hour to to kind
of come down from it. Like I said, I get
nervous doing this. Still, it's still kind of a thing
that it's like my brain switches into a different mode.
(10:18):
So I don't want to like leave that and go
right way to hanging out right.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I thought about this the other day. Because we do
work from home, it doesn't look like we're working that hard,
I think, right, because I'm literally just in my guest
room office all day long, and I'm kind of peddling
about listening to music but still working. And then when
I'm done, I leave it. But it looks like that
I'm just doing the same thing again, So I feel
guilty that I'm not doing something else, even though I'm like, no,
(10:46):
but I have worked.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
I've been working.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
It's been work, even though I'm sitting at the computer
and I'm not left my house and yes, I'm still
in pajamas.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Maybe I haven't brushed my hair. I have been working,
you know.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
And it it feels like a whole different tone of
trying to show that that they may have been hard,
even though what it seems like on papers we're staring
at each other through a webcam recording like that's what you.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Know, what I mean, whole different conversation.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
And then when we come with like the anxiety of
the performances that we have to have because essentially speaking
and being published as a performance in itself, that gives
me a lot of anxiety. Having this book coming out
gives me a lot of anxiety. Talking about trying to
produce and read off a book that you wrote in
front of people you've never met in a studio you've
never been to makes me anxious. And even though it's
(11:35):
a couple of weeks away, I'm freaking out like that
all that stuff, and so coming into company, if you
don't understand what I'm saying, this is your You're gonna
be like, why why are you here?
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Then?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Right? Right? I mean, that's true, that's true.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
It's such an interesting like juxtaphysician as well of like
we've talked about this before where I want to be
invited to things and when people tell me they went
to face and I'm like, oh, but also I probably
wouldn't have.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Been in the company, probably didn't want to go.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I get the comment more so than anytime is more like, oh,
I didn't actually think you would come, like the class that.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
I actually showed up.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, yeah, And I think that's part of it too,
of trying to because we do kind of mostly work
from home on our laptops on whatever device in pj's
and I feel like I at least have part of
this is my own doing, because I have said a
(12:43):
true statement, which is I'm pretty flexible because we're lucky
that our jobs in a lot of way, a lot
of ways is pretty flexible, and that I have I
feel like I have let get out of hand like
I they are flexible, but I do have like work
(13:04):
to do, and I think that I guess what I'm
saying is this is not because I read a lot
of articles about boundaries for this episode, and a lot
of it was like people not listening to your boundaries,
which is sometimes what is happening, But a lot of
times it's it's me that has partly been like, hey, no,
(13:26):
I can hang out. I can hang out when I'm
in a good mood. I'm like, oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
And then like later several hours later, I'm like why
did you say?
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Right?
Speaker 4 (13:35):
The quick change like how do I get down this now?
Speaker 1 (13:38):
And then I feel too guilty to get out of it,
which again a lot of people don't care.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
They really don't care.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
I mean it's constant they do care. But it was
like going through. Uh, for sure.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yeah, I think that's that's the big conversation is I've
got I've gotten to the place and maybe it's because
I'm getting into my mid forties and I'm like I
don't care anymore that I'm like, yeah, I'm just gonna
say no, or I'm just not going to say anything
until the last minute so I don't have to commit
to you. And I don't feel bad about it because
I'm like, I'm just going to stay home unless it's
(14:13):
like I will never say no to someone in crisis.
I will never even if it's like feels heavy and
I'm like I don't want to deal with this today,
I will never say no. But if it's not a
crisis and we're just hanging out, and even though I
do want to hang out with you, if that means
extra effort that I don't want to put in, I'm
probably gonna say no and be okay with it.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, which is good. I think that's a good place
to be.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Uh, you're also really good at like, well they would
show up for me, I'll show it for them.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah, you're good at that too.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
That I feel like we have to support, like it it's.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
A give and take.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
I am very dependable in that way. If you've been there,
I'll be there. Mm hmmm, yeah, well noted, thank you.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Yes, I guess this was the first time I felt
such I felt guilt before, but like I've made strides,
but clearly I'm still It's difficult, right, It's difficult, And
(15:20):
I did find some quotes about it. So here's one.
For many people, guilt is a default emotion. No matter
what you do or what you say, you'll be faced
with guilt about the way you handled the situation, and
that isn't fair or accurate. Barelli is said to combat
the guilt you may feel after setting boundaries, figure out
if you're someone who's default is feeling guilty after tough situations,
(15:43):
which I think is a good point, like if so
much of this is kind of internal of like maybe
someone isn't making you feel guilty. Maybe they are, but
maybe they're not, and you just feel guilty. That's something
to examine something else else. So this is heavily related
to our people Pleasers episode that we did, So here's
(16:07):
another quote. A boundary setting is going to be particularly
tough for those who are people pleasers, or if you're
self worth tends to come from meeting the needs of
other people, and I think that is something that I have. Yes,
And the quote goes on for people who fall into
this category and may be hard not to think in extremes,
(16:29):
which could include, is this person still going to want
to be friends with me after I set a boundary?
Really added And this could even bring up concerns like
maybe the relationship only works because I elevate someone else's
needs all the time, she said, And in the case
of boundaries, you're doing the opposite of prioritizing someone else's needs.
You're making your needs the priority and leaving a loved
(16:50):
one's needs unmet. So I feel like this for me,
this is definitely and we've talked about this too, of like, oh,
they'll never hang out with me again if I say no,
Like what will I do? But also a lot of
the conversations we've had around women and selflessness and entertaining
(17:10):
and putting other people first and all of those things
I know, and like when we did our therapy episodes,
I talked about it in there where I was like,
I feel like I'm performing and I just need to
make everyone else happy. And so it's always putting other
people first. But then like when you set a boundary
(17:33):
and quote put yourself first, it feels wrong. It feels
bad just because that's how I've been conditioned. At least,
it feels like selfish to do it. Yeah. I also
found another article about it, saying it's sort of a
(17:53):
trauma matter of safety thing of like you feel like
you can't say no when people ask you to do things,
or in the inverse of like you have to say
no because you're afraid of what will happen if you
do say yes, which is what I've kind of been
talking about with dating, which is why I always felt
like I shouldn't date because I won't be able to
say no to anything.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
But on the like friendship.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Side of like the hanging out side, I've always felt
like I have to say yes. And then they also
brought up the point women afraid rightfully, I would say,
of being called a bitch of you know, you set
up your boundaries and they're like, yeah, you bitch.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Well, we talked about this in our Religious Trauma episode
Women like the constant to command. Constant command to women
is to be selfless, and I feel like this is
the way we've really gone wrong because anything else outside
of that is selfish. There's no in between, and I
think that's growing up religiously. That's what I believe too,
Like I have to give everything of myself to be
(18:54):
grateful and to show that I am grateful and that
I am a godly woman, never saying no. And it
kind of was expected to that in that marriages and
sex in itself, that women can't say no to their husband, like,
it goes a long way. And I think with trauma
added to that, absolutely all about is like, uh, how
can we say no if someone needs something? And if
(19:17):
we say no, that means we are being selfish, unraring
and unkind right, maybe we'll go.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
To hell every time?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Every time? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, So I feel like this was a definitely some
steps forward, but also do you know, more time introspection. Again,
my friends did not make me feel guilty. I just
want to figure about that. It was just me, right, So.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
I got something else to think about, But I did
want to bring it up. I did want to revisit it.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
The articles I was quoting from are was one a
huff Post article called setting Boundaries without Guilt, and then
a Medium article is guilt holding you back from set boundaries.
Guilt resiliency is the answer which I didn't really get into,
but they were talking about, like how just to become
real resilient to guilt. Yeah, so hopefully, hopefully to those listening,
(20:18):
you are working on those boundaries. You've got good boundaries.
You're taking time off, but you can when you want to.
But yeah, if you have any thoughts about this, please
let us know. You can email us at Stephania Mom
Steph at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on
Twitter at most stuff Podcasts, or on Instagram and TikTok
at Steffan' never Told You. You can also fund us
(20:38):
on YouTube. And yes, we do have a book coming out.
You can pre order it at stuff you Should read
Books dot com. Thanks it's always to our super producer Christina,
our executive producer Maya, and our contributor Joey. Thank you,
and thanks to you for listening. Stephan Never Told You.
Disprection of iHeartRadio. For more podcast from my heart Radio,
you can check out the iHeart Radio app Apple podcast
wherever you listen to your Bavish
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