SMNTY Classics: Everything Everywhere All At Once

Bring out the googly eyes and find joy with us as we unpack the many multiverses of this classic everything bagel episode of Everything Everywhere All At Once, jumping from themes like motherhood, identity, being queer, the meaning of life, and of course, cinnamon rolls

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephan.
I never told you protection of iHeartRadio. And today we're
bringing back a classic. We don't normally bring back a
classic this young, as they say, because this was about

(00:26):
a year ago. We released this It's a feminist movie
Friday on Everything, Everywhere, All at Once, which you probably
heard was the big winner at the ninety fifth Oscars
this year, which Samantha and I did not watch. We
were previously occupied. And that's also why Classic was coming
out today, because we have been releasing more new content

(00:47):
because of our last US mini series than we normally do,
so we thought we would give us a little bit
of a break, but also talk about the Oscars very
very briefly because it was some history made that night.
So this movie won Best Film, Editing, Best Original Screenplay,
Best Film, Best Motion Picture, Best Actor, and then we

(01:12):
had Best Supporting Actress Jamie Lee. Curtis Quan won Best
Supporting Actor, and it's really sweet because he had kind
of a reuniting with Harrison Ford's for all these years.
And then Michelle Yo made history as the first Asian
woman to win Best Actress, and I did want to
highlight something she said in her speech because she kind

(01:32):
of addressed agism and in sexism in Hollywood and said, ladies,
don't let anybody tell you you were ever pass your prime.
Never give up. And this has gotten better, but not
by much. So she the average age of a woman

(01:54):
winning in that category is thirty nine, which has got
actually gotten a lot better than it used to be.
Sadly enough, the average age of a male Academy Award
winner and the other corresponding categories forty seven, right, and
she is about to turn sixty one, So it is
a big deal that she won this in several ways,
And there were a lot of pretty great, pretty great

(02:16):
speeches from that night. And I love that because it
was given by Halle Berry, who was the only other
woman of color to win that category. So it was
a beautiful exchange as well as the fact of the
presenter for kwon was Arian Dubois. She was so like
emotional presenting it to him because she knew that how
big of a deal it was for him and those
around him. It was. It was glorious seeing them getting

(02:38):
all these awards and accolades. So beautiful it was, it was,
and it's a beautiful movie, so we hope you enjoy
this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie Aunt Samantha. I
don't come to Stephane never told your production of iHeartRadio.

(03:08):
So it is time for this month's edition of Feminist
Movie Friday. It is going to be slightly different. First
of all, it comes with a spoiler alert because we're
going to be talking about the very recent twenty twenty
two movie Everything Everywhere, All at Once, which just came
out on streaming. Though I believe you had to buy it,
which I did, but I could be wrong, but I

(03:31):
did buy it. It's twenty dollars. I'm like what I'm like,
if I love a movie enough, I'm like, yeah, I
take it. And as I told Samantha, this movie is
sort of hard to spoil. It's hard to explain. However,
I did do it, so I guess if you really
don't want to be spoiled, it will spoil you. I mean,

(03:55):
since we're talking in detail. Yeah, yes, but it's still
worth watching all yes. Um, and if you haven't watched it,
you should go watched it immediately, unless there's a reason
you can't go to the theater or rent it, which
I know that exists. And I get that so absolutely.
But if you're not limited and our privileged enough to
go to or see it, you need to right now

(04:18):
stop stop this right now, plastic. You go watch it
and can then come back. Please come back, don't don't
abandon us. Come back. Yes, And we were fortunately enough
to Seaton theaters. I actually saw theaters. It was because
she went without me. I feel betrayed. I did, but
I admitted it to you. And I have some friends

(04:41):
who I would have tried to lie to you too
about it, and I have done that. I hope they're
not listening, but now start to be suspicious? Was that me?
I for Luke? I will tell you and you won't
be surprised. You will not be surprised. But I hope
that they. I think that you do, because I'm pretty

(05:02):
sure I've told you, but I admitted it, so that's
a show of trust. But we did go see it
in theaters. There was a bit of a snaff who
with the seating situation. Oh man, I got real boomerish
on this one. Sorry Boomers. And I say this as
I'm a stickler for rules, so maybe I'm just a
libra to the core in this realm. I was fairly stubborn,

(05:25):
and I really wanted to fight some teenagers because I'm like,
you're in my seat and that we had to move
because we were displaced. Yes, because we were in the
wrong seat. I was very upset, Yes, But other than that,
it was a pretty excellent theater experience in terms of, like,
this is a great movie to see in theaters I did.
There was a trailer for it for another a twenty

(05:47):
four movie, Men, which I have now seen to have
you oh I have, Yes, I have, and the teenagers
as you call them, behind us teenagers they were to
save the world. I remember after that trailer was over
they said, it's not a movie just about our men suck. Yeah.

(06:09):
My favorite part was I think it's like one girl
to three guys, and they were just all obviously very
good friends, and they were all like, yeah, yeah, I
want an agreement together. It was I was like, you
know what, maybe they're not awful. Yeah yeah, but we'll see.
So I know we're not talking about that movie, but
I've heard not great reviews and that it was obviously

(06:30):
written by a man and directed by a man. Is
it as it seems or would you recommend seeing that one?
I think it has things that are worth talking about,
and it's it's a body horror movie, so if you're
into that, then if you're in luck, Yeah, I definitely.

(06:52):
I had a lot of thoughts afterwards, and I had
me and my friend who saw it, who was also
a woman. We disgusted at length. I think it tried
to do a lot of things and something succeeded and
some things didn't. But there were certainly parts where we
were nodding at each other like, yeah, we've met this
like really religious man who actually just wants to have
sex with you. Yeah, I got it. Because it's as
one male actor playing like everywhere all the characters, right,

(07:17):
so there's interesting stuff going on. I think the ending
was a little messy, but you know, a twenty four
has gotten the reputation for being exactly that. Yeah and
MESSI okay, what's going on? Well, this is a twenty
four movie exactly, yes, And I was watching it. So

(07:38):
I watched it two days ago, which was the first
day it came out and streaming for this and I
did have like further follow up questions, and I'm like,
are those people actually did today? I can't help But
when I think of multiverse. I really struggle with this
as well, when all of the because like I know,

(07:58):
this is the comic world old and I usually dismiss things,
but then it just gets into like further perpetuating questioning
of what about this and this and this? And then
she was this and but she was all of them?
But what? Yeah? Yeah, I mean I think the first
time I thought, I was just like whoa, and then
the second time I was like wow, and then this
time I was like this is still cool. But wait

(08:20):
a minute, are they which? Are they all dead? Is
no one gonna come investigate or kill things? Painful? But
I think I've got it figured out. Smith, I think
I've got it. Figure it out. Okay, Yeah, but before
we get into it, just what was your experience? How
did you feel about it? Well? You know, I love
Michelle Yo, like I think I've talked about it repeatedly

(08:41):
about her as well as Migna, being two of the
first Chinese women actors that really hit me because they
looked like me. Now, we are of two different ethnicities.
I am Koreana, they are Chinese, but so, but they
looked like me and being beautiful women who were in
characters that weren't caricatures of Chinese women. Was really nice

(09:05):
to see. Of course, yes, sexualization happens often in all
of those things, but I mean Michelle Yo talks about
being able to stand up with Jackie Chan and really
holding on and being as strong and as independent as
well as fears and finding all of those things, like
you see all of that and are able to really
connect and for me to connect with that in a

(09:26):
different level of seeing people who can make it in
the industry. There was something to the fact that Michelle
Yo was able to cross over Mingna as well into
both Chinese an Asian film as well as American films.
So so much to that that I love them, and
they've of course become iconic, and they have been iconic

(09:48):
for a while, especially in the Asian community. So I am.
I was beyond excited to see this movie, really excited
to see it in a way that portrays the family,
a family, a community coming together. Of course, there's been
movies recently that's celebrating that finally, and I love that.
I love that's been able to cross over. Parasite was

(10:10):
that same level. Of course, that's a whole different conversation
in itself. There are so many things that I wanted
to be able to celebrate, but this had the female,
the woman character being the lead, which is even better.
Of course, we talked about the whole mother daughter relationships,
which is a whole thing in itself, any relationships, and

(10:30):
I'm not gonna lie. I like when it's portrayed realistically,
so it's not happy, go lucky and not necessarily everything's solved,
but it's kind of that. It's a romance movie in
it as well, So really excited. I wanted to know
very little about it except I needed to know, like

(10:50):
who all died, and I'm like, I need to know
if someone's gonna die, I'm gonna be upset. But I
was told that the status scene would be the wrong
sine and it really wasn't bad. Of course, all the
reviews where everybody came out bawling, and because I don't
have the same familial clinic connections, I think people came
in with this. I didn't. It didn't bother me as

(11:13):
much as it didn't emotionally wreck me as much. But
I really loved every aspect of this movie except for
the hot dog fingers. Could have done without that one.
But you know it made it funny, but yeah, so
everything about this movie made me very excited, very happy
coming into it knowing it was celebrated, not celebrated enough. Apparently.

(11:34):
I thought it was because it's in our world, in
my sphere. It's so excited getting so many reviews. But
outside of that, apparently not a lot of people know.
I know at one point they were joking about Morbia's
but yeah, exactly, it's a reaction from most people in
my community, getting like higher rating, not ratings, higher viewings.

(11:57):
I think. I'm not really sure, but it was it masically.
That makes me sad. That's interesting because more we has
just came out for a second time because I think
add maybe I'm marketing people misunderstood sarcastic tweets and we're like, oh,
people really are into it, will we release it in
It got eighty five thousand dollars in one weekend, So

(12:21):
maybe not. Maybe maybe that's a joke and I believed it,
but like, yeah, have you both talked about that. I mean,
it's a it's a critical success and a financial success,
and we're not going to go There was so much
coverage on this movie and so many interviews with the
actors that are amazing and you should read them, and
a lot of it was about being an Asian actor,

(12:44):
being an older Asian actor and being able to find
work and not only that but finding like good roles.
So definitely go look that out. There's so much out
there about this movie right now, I think we should

(13:10):
endeavor on trying to explain survey all right, Okay, here
we go, So everything, everywhere, all at once is a
twenty twenty two American film that is sort of genre defying.
It's got sci fi action, kung fu nihilism at one
part animation, absurdism, comedy. But I would say under all

(13:32):
of that is a stylistic, domestic family drama about learning
to understand your place in the universe, with some amazing costuming.
There's also some really great interviews with the costumer, so
check those out to you. It has nods to pop
through movies like Ratatui, Michelle Yoe's filmography, and some definite
pokes at Marvel. It was written and directed by the Daniels,

(13:56):
Dan Quan and Daniel Shiner, who played the BDS him guy.
If you've seen it, that was him, That was Him,
Produced by the Russo brothers, the Daniels, Jonathan Wong, Michelle Yo,
and Mike Larrocca, and I did want to add in
here because I thought it was really interesting. Right now,
the multiverse is really popular, and apparently the Daniels started

(14:18):
working on this in twenty ten, and then Spider Verse
came out twenty eighteen somewhere around there, and they were
like duh no, and then like Rick and Morty season
two as a whole multiverse thing, and then like Spider
Man and the Doctor Strange and they're like, nah, yeah,

(14:41):
but this is a very unique take on it. So
I think they were good. They were good. It stars
Michelle Yo as Chinese American immigrant Evelyn Wong in a
role originally written for Jackie Chan, Stephanie Sue as her
daughter Joy Wang Kei Huai Kwan as her husband Waymond
Wong who's from the Goonies in Indiana. Jones and I
have such a crush on him when I was a kid,

(15:04):
and he killed it. Oh he oh, amazing. James Hong
as Evelyn's father, Gong Gong, Jamie Lee Curtis as deer Dre,
the I R S agent auditing them, Tally Madel as
Joy's girlfriend Becky, with some smaller roles from the like
of Ginny Slate and Harry Sham Junior. It was critically

(15:24):
acclaimed and a huge financial success, and is now Film
Studio A twenty four's top grossing domestic film ever. So yeah,
pretty good, all right. So the plot. It's separated into
three parts to match the title. It follows Yoe's character
Evelyn Wong, who owns a struggling laundromat with her husband.

(15:46):
When the film opens, it is clear that Evelyn is
under a lot of stress. Her demanding father is visiting,
her husband Wayman wants to talk to her, and the
laundromat is being audited, so she's trying to gather up
all of their receipts to take to the r S office.
And by the way, I have been audited out. It sucks.
It's so and I don't even have like a business

(16:06):
like I can't even imagine that part of it. During
all of this, Evelyn is dealing with demanding customers at
the laundromat and her daughter Joy, who is trying to
convince her mom to accept her girlfriend, Becky and they
Becky and Joy have been dating for three years. Evelyn,
who is preparing for a party that night, tells Joy
that telling Gong Gong that she is gay will kill him.

(16:28):
Evelyn is frustrated with her husband, who she views as Week,
someone who's always making things worse. She's frustrated with Joy,
who can't just help out and not cause problems, like
just do as Evone says. When Joy tries to introduce
Becky to Gongong, Evelyn steps in because Joy struggles with Chinese,
and both Cantonese and Mandarin are spoken in this film,

(16:49):
and they are really great essays on like why each
one is spoken and when and what it means, so
that's really cool too, and Evelyn calls Becky her friend
instead of girlfriend. Hurt, Joy storms away with Becky near tears.
Evelyn tries to stop her, but instead hurts her even
more about telling her that she is getting fat. Um.

(17:10):
Joy drives away upset. Right, can we talk about the
fact that, Yeah, James Hong is also an iconic actor
that's been around um and has been a legend and
finally got his star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame
just recently, which is absurd. He's done a ton of staff.
I think it's so many hundreds of credits to his name,

(17:31):
so including just recently turning Red. Oh yeah, huh yeah,
but like that's just one of the many. He's probably
one of the iconic voices within Disney Animation. Yeah, yeah, absolutely,
he's always been there. He's always been there, y'all. Anyway,
so back to this, Evelyn, Wyman and Gong Gong make

(17:54):
their way to the I r S Office when Wayman
seems to be taken over by an alternate personality. Can
we talk about the fanny pack, y'all? Alpha women on
the elevator right up, giving her odd instructions and the
sort of earpiece situation that he just sticks it in
her ear just like what's happening? Um, And as the

(18:14):
elevator opens, Alpha Wayman is gone, and by the way,
the umbrella too, because he building off everything's in that
fanny pack is useful. Like we can't deny this, yeah,
I mean, fighting, hiding, doing things anyway. And then Wayman

(18:34):
that we know is back, and though he remembers nothing
of what just happened, goes into the conversation. Here they
sit down with IRS Agent Mestidira, growing annoyed and board
with the IRS proceedings. And by the way, did you
see the interview that Jamie Lee Curtis did about her
personality and how they decided on what she looked like.
They actually took a real IRS officer, whoever this person was,

(19:00):
and took their image to be this person. And Jamie
Less was like, this is the most comfortable I've ever
been because everything about it is natural. She's like, I
didn't want to tighten up anything, I didn't want to
do anything else but just be this person. And I
was like, oh, look at you, Jae Lee Curtis. She
was like, and I loved it. She did a great job. Clastic,

(19:22):
so good. But as this proceeds on, she talks to
Evelyn about the deductions, which is several items related to
her hobbies, like singing as a business deduction that they
of karaoke machine was added to that, and Didra is
not impressed. But during this time, Evelyn is hearing these

(19:43):
things coming through the airpiece and she follows Alpha Amen's
written instructions and her mind seems to split. One version
of herself as listening to Didra. The other version of
her is in the janitor's closet with Alpha Weymen. He
tells her that he is from something called the Alpha verse,
or one of thousands of universe in the multiverse, which

(20:05):
alpha verse means the beginning, So feel like anyway whatever,
and he believes she's the key to defeating the universe
destroyer Joebu Tupaki, and to do this she needs to
use a technology created by Alpha Evelyn called verse jumping. Basically,
you have to do something strange and yes, often very gross, ye,

(20:30):
seemingly painful, but okay, to open a pathway to another
you that made a different choice. The stranger the thing,
the greater the probability of the jump will work, and
you will be able to access the skills of that
universe's version of you. Yeah, still with us, got it?

(20:50):
I will say the second time, I was like, Okay,
I'm not I'm spending less time like what so I
recommended least viewings. All right? So Evelyn now back at
the I R S meeting after a version of Dear
Dress snaps Alpha Wayman's neck. But it's fine though, because
this was like an in between, not real thing. Yeah,

(21:12):
realizes that her Waymond is trying to divorce her, punches
Dear Dre and attempts to verse jump all very quickly.
Waymond gives up on her, which, by the way, this
is after he's told her he's seen a thousand Evelyn's
murdered by Joe Budtupaki, but Evelyn figures out this verse
jumping thing accessing a universe where she left Waymond stayed

(21:33):
home and became a martial arts expert and movie star
aka Michelle yo Ntially, all the throwbacks was amazing the throwbacks.
There's a lot of really good, like old footage promotional
footage of her. Yeah, so Evelyn uses her new skills
to beat professional wrestler Datre, saying this is so fun,

(21:55):
but it's all true. Alpha Wayman decides because of all
of her untapped potential, she is the best chance of
beating Joebutubaki. He says it in a much meaner way,
even though he means it very nicely. Um and Joe
bu Tobaki is revealed to be Alpha Joy, created by
Alpha Evelyn after she pushed Alpha Joy too hard. Joe

(22:17):
Bu Tupaki has unlimited godlike power to manipulate matter and
to verse jump experiences all universes at once, and has
created a everything Bagel black hole like thing to destroy
the multiverse, and she has been searching for the right Evelyn. Right. Uh?
And can we talk about there have been so many

(22:38):
conversations and I guess memes about the everything Bagels do
it a lot. It's become it's become a like somebody
who I was guessing on somebody's podcasts other day, you know,
just you know how, And they I don't even know
they'd seen it, but they used everything bagel is sort
of like a term to disc gcribe something, and I

(23:01):
was like, wow, it's really caught on. It. Well, apparently
the Daniels used it as a joke to describe it,
and then it just caught on and so they're like, yeah,
let's just decree it. I mean, it makes sense now
it does, right. So Alfha gone gong in a superpowered wheelchair,
and obviously the commander of all the things appears after

(23:23):
Joebu to Puck kills some police, some cops in truly
creative ways. A lot of color in there, a lot
of confetti, yep, so much Elvis outfits, you know, all
the dils so dildos yep, there's a lot of dildos
there are. And and in the minute I saw this Award.

(23:44):
I was like, that looks like a butt plug and
Andy burst out laughing because I had no context yet. Yeah. Yeah, anyway,
So he tries to convince Evelyn to kill Joy to
weaken Joe Bu to Puck, but Evelyn refuses, deciding that
in order to defeat Joe Budapaki, she has to become
more powerful than she So she verse jumps, fighting millions

(24:05):
of both Joe Bu Dapaki and Alpha Gongong into a
verse where she is a sign flipper, a singer, a
chef where she works with raccacooney and can we just
talk about, Oh my god, Harry shum Junor. And I
was so excited that he was on here because he
probably was one of my favorite characters. Why am I
talking about Glee so much? But he was one of

(24:27):
my favorite characters in Glee because I was like, look
at this, They're representing an Asian person as something beyond
just being again a caricature. I mean, he wasn't the
only one. There were two Asian characters, and I loved it.
That was wonderful, But he was such a fantastic character
to see him thrive on because I was really scared
that most of times you don't see marginalized people moving on,

(24:51):
and to see him in this movie was really nice.
But anyway, back to RACCACOONI, it is a raccoon that
controls a chef. Sounds familiar. Yes, it may have been
a play on words because they she couldn't figure out
rather twoey hilarious and to see a puppetry type of
thing like, yeah, the idea of having it is alive. Yeah. Also,

(25:14):
Racocoony was voiced by Randy Newman. Moving on and one
where everyone has hot dog her fingers y'all, if you
haven't seen this, it's unimaginable and I wish I hadn't
seen that part. And she is in a relationship with Tidra.

(25:36):
Yeah yeah, Okay, So through this, everyone learns that the
Everything Bagel was not created to destroy the multiverse, but
so Joe Byutipaki could destroy herself. So Joe Byepaki believes
that because of all the chaos and randomness of the universe,
nothing matters, and she's tired of experiencing it all, and

(25:56):
that if nothing matters, then it doesn't matter that she
never became anything, and she's been looking for an Evelyn
that would understand that Evelyn sees flashes of other universes
where she turned in Racacooni to the authorities, where she
is on the verge of losing, the laundromat where she

(26:17):
tries to convince Wayman to be with her and he
rejects her. That's the Michelle Yo movie Star universe. And
one where she stabs her universe is Waymond, almost persuaded
by Joe Boutapaki to follow her and to the Everything
Bagel and Yeah. She approaches the Everything Bagel with Joe Buotepaki,
but is stopped by Wayman's calls her peace for kindness

(26:39):
like basically like stop, what are we doing? Evelyn decides
to fight like Waymond, as she says, and finds the
thing that all of her opponents need or desire and
gives it to them from BDSM two promises of love
to pain relief, stuff she has gleaned from her multiverse knowledge.

(27:00):
She helps save Kakooney. There's a universe where both she
and Joe Buchepaki are yes, both rocks and they bond. Apparently,
according to Joe Buchepaki, most universes are like this, as
in no life Ever happened because the conditions weren't correct
in an alternate universe. She confronts Gong Gong and tells

(27:21):
her why she loves her daughter, how she won't do
the same thing to her daughter that he did to her,
and introduces Becky as Joy's girlfriend. Joy storms off, upsets
deer Dress, shows up with the police. Evelyn signs of
the divorce papers and breaks the window open the laundromat
and it's put in handcuffs. However, Wayman tells Deirdre about

(27:44):
the divorce and she orders the police to let Evelyn go.
Deirdre gives them a week to redo their taxes, and
Deirdre and Evelyn bond Dear Drew revealing how she reacted
to her own divorce, and that's one of my very
favorite scenes in the whole movie. Yeah, yeah, if you're confused,
like she Dear Edred had given them until six pm
that night to turn in their taxis and they never did,

(28:06):
and then she calls angryness like to not even show up,
and then Evelyn said something very rude to her, and
then she showed up with Dear Dred showed up with
the police, and it escalated very quickly. Yes. Yeah. So
Evelyn goes after Joy and tells her that despite everything,
she would always choose to be here with her, no

(28:26):
matter all the other universes, and that she would cherish
every spec of time and meaning they found together, and yeah,
I do really love that. But also there's a moment
where she's just watching Wayman and seeing what he does
and watching everything he does and realizing that it is
not bad. Yeah, it's very sweet. Yeah. And then we
also see Grandpa having a moment of confusion and acceptance.

(28:51):
That was interesting, but that was also one again, like
you were saying earlier, one of the pushes is that
he had pretty much disowned her ye because she refused
to follow his advice and his the parents advice, and
so he pretty much cut her off until he got
sick and had to move in with her and all that.
They hug and next we see them. The family seems

(29:11):
to be healing as they return to the I R.
S Office, driven by Becky, who Evelyn informs needs to
grow out her hair because it's too short. Obviously. Um.
Evelyn kisses Wayman during their meeting with dear Dress. She
is distracted for a moment about all the union verses
but pulls back focusing on the moment end. Yes, yes,
and there was a fake out ending. Yeah, there was

(29:34):
a couple of fake out endings, like she died and
that was the end of it, and then she wakes
up in the movie theater. Yeah. Yeah, so that was
the actual end um. And yes, it is very visually arresting,
very like there are a lot of dildos, but costuming
is amazing. It's being creative, like it's a it's an

(29:56):
experience for the senses. Definitely. Yeah, lots of play on
things I do. Once again, like I feel like Wayman's
character was specific to bring the child light portion into it,
whether it's the googly eyes again, whether it's the Fannie pack,
any of those things. Obviously he's the one that's asking
for a divorce, but he's that kind of the one

(30:16):
that pulls her back to the reality and she pulls
Joy with her. Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's sort of
how they got the end. When Joy Joe would thak
he was like trying to get into the everything bagel,
Evelyn was holding her back, Wayman was holding Evelyn back,
and then Gong Gong was holding Wayman back. So it

(30:36):
took all of them to bring her back. It's pretty good.
It's pretty good. So some themes, again, like, there's so

(30:57):
much written about this movie, so we're just gonna touch
some stuff. But there's so much out there and if
you want to read it, I recommend it a lot
of it's very heartwarming. Yeah, So a big one is yes,
the mother daughter relationship, which is fascinating because we have
been talking about this whole lot lately. Right, And I
even saw an article before we decided to do this movie,

(31:19):
so I haven't I wasn't able to find it again,
but I saw an article that was like the newest
trend in Hollywood, parents apologizing to their children, especially in
the context of multigenerational immigrant families in Western countries. So
we talked about that with Turning Red. We talked about

(31:41):
a little bit when we did our touch on Conto,
but it has definitely been a thing lately for sure,
Right And I wonder, like, of obviously the people who
came out going, I was sobbing. No one warn me.
Why didn't you tell me that I would be ugly
crying because I didn't want to be in public crying

(32:03):
like this. But I wonder if things like this, for
movies like this as well as Turning Red, as well
as in Encanto. It's really therapeutic for the families to
see it because maybe they have not gotten it and
wish for it. And that's what part that the writers
are pouring into, because they themselves are experiencing and wishing

(32:23):
for that, and they know how universal it is. And
though we're looking at a world of so many things,
what we see is an attack on female relationships a
lot of times anyway, when we see this whole undermining
of women altogether and those who identify as women in general,
like it is an obvious thing. Maybe this is such

(32:45):
an open spot that this is how people are ringing
it out therapeutically by the relationships that they have. And
I hope it's true. I hope this is exactly what
it is, especially right now in the queer community. It's
like a double whammy of trying to find acceptance in
the world, hoping to find set us with those who
love them the most, those who've raised them whatever it
may be, whether they are trans or coming out or

(33:06):
any of those things. That this is such a raw
moment in time that it has become bigger and bigger
and bigger, and since the first I don't know who
would be our first as of recent that has decided
to jump into the mother daughter relationship, I don't know,
but since that has been realized, oh oh this is needed,

(33:28):
This is the therapy people are needing. Yeah, well, I
got a lot of thoughts about that number one. As
you know, I am working on an episode for my
birthday that is no surprise about Star Wars. But I
have a whole theory about what you're talking about about,
like people trying to like writing this thing and basically
trying to provide themselves therapy. But that doesn't mean it's

(33:49):
like not useful because people a lot of people experience
those things and that's how we connect through these stories.
And then I forgot to mention like Benda's like Beckham
also had something like this going on. Yeah, so it's
been around. It's not like it's new. I just think
it's right now super popular. But also last night I
watched Miss Marvel, which is one of my very favorite comics,

(34:09):
and it had a similar thing. I was like, what's
happening here? It is it's such anerational thing, like the
not that Father's sons are not important, but we've kind
of gone passed to what is happening now with the
ladies at the women who are struggling. We're being attacked
from all ages. What's the what's the way maybe we

(34:30):
feel a little more safe if we had that bond
here we go? Right yeah, yeah, oh gosh, I think
we're going to talk about this in an upcoming book club.
But also just sort of the way we as women
can hurt other women, right yeah, which is something I
do want to talk about in a second. But also
I did find it interesting because I didn't really put

(34:52):
this together, but one of the articles I was reading
pointed out that in all of the other universes we
see other than the awful one, Evelyn doesn't have joy.
It's only in those two that you see it. And
so it's sort of like the mirror of you pushed
her too hard, you pushed her towards this, and then

(35:14):
this sort of I don't want to say normal. The
onely the Evelyn we are going through the story with
her universe, she has that moment of like pulling her
back and stopping pushing. So I thought that was really interesting.
There was that whole thing of like Joy tells Becky.
Evelyn has this thing of like, if she criticizes you,

(35:35):
it's how she shows she cares. Right, So when she
says Joy is getting fat, it's a way of showing
she cares. At the end, when she says, Becky, you
need to cut your hair short, is supposed to be
a way of showing she cares. But that's also like,
I feel like that's come up a lot. And these
stories too have sort of the critical maternal figure, whether

(35:56):
it's the grandmother or the mother, but or both um
sort of the criticism that is often a push to
do better, to be that everything Bagel, to go out
and be more than I I was right. Yeah, I
mean there's definitely that conversation of yeah, I don't want
this life for you, my life for you. I want
you to have your life, which again is a bigger

(36:20):
conversation about it. And I mean we've seen it culturally,
we've seen it being talked about, especially in Asian cultures,
that being a thing, you know, to the point that
became a stereotype obviously, but I think it is interesting. Yeah,
that the whole criticism. I always say, from my perspective,
if I'm not making fun of you. That means I

(36:40):
don't love you, which it's like, oh, that's probably not
a good thing. But at the same time, like I
show loved by hmm, being a jack sometimes sometimes I
think for you though, I mean a lot of friends
do that where you feel comfortable enough like teasing them right.
Family can be so tricky and so confrind so, but
I feel like in friendships a lot of times, as

(37:02):
long as it's within good nature and not that sort
of toxic, backhanded friendship stuff, then yeah, it's funny. It's
fun too. I did hear they were going to remove
calling Jenny Slate's character big Nose from the digital version
because of negative Jewish stereotypes, but it was still in
it when I watched it, so I don't know. Really, yeah,
I'm not gonna lie. That one made me go, uh

(37:25):
so this was I don't understand who wrote this and
thought it was okay. I haven't seen any complaints about it,
necessarily by individuals, but yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I
also when I was watching, I was like, woof, But
I hadn't heard that until I was researching it. So
we'll see, Pep'll see how that goes to a lesser extent.

(37:45):
I mean, it's a huge part of the movie. It's
just not the main focus is Evelyn's relationship with her father,
and as we've kind of been talking about about how
her father disowned Evelyn because she wanted to be with
Wayman and how that impacts Evelyn and how she treats
Joy and how she wants Tory to act around Gongong

(38:08):
sort of this whole cyclical mess. The language barrier between
Joy and Gongong is a pretty big factor throughout this Also,
every time I watch it, the line I'm sorry, it's
a girl when Evelyn is born catches my attention. Oh yeah, yeah,
and then yeah, I mean you see throughout the movie

(38:31):
you see kind of flashbacks of Evelyn being young and
Joy being young, and they're very similar in a lot
of ways. But definitely Gongong pushed Evelyn really really hard
and critiqued her very very hard, and she rebelled just
like Joy. And at the end Evelyn tells Gongog like
she's just like her mother. Also, yeah, like we said,

(38:52):
the kind of putting all of your hopes and dreams
into a child and everything Bagel like putting everything on there,
and it sort of collapses in on itself. And so
when this is going to sound was strange if you
haven't seen it. But when Joyce shows evil in the
everything she does sort of like this church church people
like the fingered church thing. Yeah, that finger trick that

(39:13):
young kids would do. Be like, look, this is like
a vagina. Uh. And so that's why when I was
watching it, I was like, it does kind of look
like that. And then I was like, this is like
birthing of universes? And am I reading too deep on it?
I couldn't find anything about it, but I feel like
they knew what they were doing. Sounds about right, yeah,

(39:33):
And then I couldn't really find I saw this article
and I read it. I skimmed through it probably a
month or so ago, and it was about the drudgery
of motherhood and how this movie does a really good
job of kind of capturing the days where you're you
are thinking like I wish I was in another universe
where I just wasn't my life, But it also does

(39:55):
capture really well the like importance of the days where
you don't wish that. And there's a great interview I
think with MPR MICHELLEO did where she's like the superpower
of her is she's a mom and she's running this
business and she's in this relishion like all the stuff
she's doing. So I thought that was interesting. I think
basically what people were saying is it was a really,

(40:15):
like you said, realistic portrayal of sort of all the
stuff a lot of us have to do. And I'm
not even a mom, but like just that everyday stuff
and adding the mom and the business and all that
stuff to it. Yeah. Right, But yes, as this comes out,
it is Pride month, and so we did want to

(40:36):
talk about queer relationships, and you know, the big one
is between Joy and Becky, who again have been dating
for three years and they're very very sweet together, and
we get to see Becky being very supportive of Joy.
I'm assuming Joy is very supportive Becky, but that's sort
of not what we're getting to see in this family
drama part that we're sing Yeah, and they're you know,

(40:58):
Joy's trying to like, you know, we've been dating long enough, Ken,
I bring Becky to this party as my girlfriend, not
my friend. Is at the heart of a lot of
the drama that we see in this particular universe. Yeah,
I'm trying to keep track of all of the universes here,

(41:19):
but yeah, yeah, right, it's obviously a big part of
the acceptance that she feels like she's not enough for
her mother already and then not accepting her a big
part of her life or relationship with the love of
her life. So yeah, it was definitely a big key
point kind of the push as of like, if you
don't accept me, this might be over. It felt like

(41:40):
a finalized this or that type of moment, including with
a bagel, Like I think it's like, that's a bigger picture,
and then the smaller picture was this relationship in my
acceptance and your acceptance of my family, and part of
that acceptance is acknowledging this. It's it is, it's a
relationship and it's for real. Yeah. Yeah, And I love
the bit at the end where she she Evilyn looks

(42:05):
at Wayman is like the universe was kind enough to
grant us someone who was patient and loving, and that's
I thought that was very sweet. That part does make
me kind of nervous though, just because like coming out
to family, because Joy keeps trying to get away and
she's like, no, we're finally gonna tell Gongog, which I
totally get because in the beginning, Joy was like, we
have to tell Gongong. But I was just like, oh,

(42:25):
this is tense right moment. I don't know what the
best way to good to do it would have. I mean,
if Joy would have done it, or if it was
too late, I'm not sure because it felt like Evelyn
was like, no, I'm putting the I'm standing up for you.
I'm gonna say it. I'm gonna tell my father what's what?
And Joy was like, oh gosh, please don't do this right,

(42:47):
not at my expense. And also there is this line
when Evelyn realizes that Joe Butapaki is Joy. She views
it as like Joy's being possessed and she says to
job Chiaki like, is that why she thinks she's gay?
So that was she had a long way to go

(43:08):
and understanding her daughter and her depression and her queerness
and all of that, which I think is a lot
a lot of people do think that way, whether it's
depression or queener or what. But like, that's something almost
possessing you, Like, that's not my joy, right, but it is.
And also I just had to mention I do really
love the Hot Dog Universe relationship between her and Dear Jo.

(43:31):
I think it's super sweet. I love that. In the beginning,
her weird, her strange things she had to do, was
like tell Dietrich she loved her and mean it. She's like, never,
there's nothing to love in the At the end, Dear
just says, well, that's just how it is. Stone cold
bitches make the world go around. We're unlovable and everyone's like,
there's always something to love, and then they smoke we together.

(43:55):
I love that part. It's so cute. Yeah, the relationship
they had was nice. The hot Dog fingers was disturbing
because they eat each other's fingers, Like that's the moment
comes out, ketchup comes out. M There's something so disturbing
about that. The relationship was beautiful and sweet, and it's

(44:16):
sad when Dada leeveser, but then comes back and that
comes happy. But yeah, the sexy moments were of them
eating each other's fingers. Yeah, and I uh, I'm not
gonna lie made me uncomfortable. More uncomfortable than the butt
plugs scene. Yeah, yeah, interesting, which is nothing wrong with

(44:36):
butt plugs, but it was quite I'm I'm more like
that would hurt so bad because it was like a
running can painful. Also, they did it with their pants on,
and I can't imagine exactly that is comfortable. Oh no, no, no, no,
because I had to go through jeans and underwear. Anybody

(44:57):
who's listening to this as it sh Yeah, yeah, that
gets me every time because it's a running jump cannonball situation. Yeah.
There's also as we've been talking about, and we talked
about this even with Bridget in our Sex in the
City episode, which I love. This whole theme of like

(45:18):
depression and the meaning of life. It keeps coming up.
Jobu Jipaki keeps saying nothing means anything, nothing matters, but
Evelyn arrives. It's sort of the opposite conclusion that everything matters,
like even the tiny because Joe Jipaki keeps saying, we
get maybe for lucky specs to have any meaning, and

(45:38):
Evelyn arrives at the meaning that like, then I will
treasure every of those specs and it all matters instead
of nothing matters, which is very sweet. It's interesting because
I kind of have a similar viewpoint where I'm like, yeah,
nothing matters, but it does matter. At the same time,
I don't know if that makes sense, but no, it does. Yeah,
that's the expidential crisis to it all, which this movie

(46:01):
is very much bad. I didn't mention that it is
right right. And then through out there is this kind
of running three point of everyone missing the point. She
keeps almost getting where her daughter is coming from, but
missing it. Like there's a scene where she's like, I
know you have these feelings inside. I know you feel

(46:22):
like you'll never do that whatever, I will be Joe
bu Chapaki like. But at the end she does get it.
She arrives at it, and it's they've just been looking
for connection and understanding. Yeah. Right, she arrives at it
because she arrives at her own feelings instead of projecting.
And that's the big key. I actually, here's a quote
from Noel Webster at the Tricycle. They say, everything everywhere,

(46:45):
all at once. Is not a movie about how to
save the world. It's about understanding how to be a
part of it. Amidst the mayhem, the film seems grounded
in its core message about the importance of human connection
and cultivating compassion for all beings throughout our confusing in
permanent lives. Evelyn doesn't arrive at these truths immediately. It

(47:06):
takes a few action packed trips across the multiverse first,
But as she learns to cherish even the most mundane
moments of time with her family, so does the audience. Yeah,
that's sort of what you were talking about when she's
like remembering all these things wayman does, right, Yeah, I
should have judged that. That's yeah, I mean, it definitely

(47:29):
is one of those moments of going through all the
versions of him and her trying to pick out which
one she would have rather been with than not been
with U. It's interesting to see and then her pushing
back like nothing matters, because she comes to that point
she's like, it doesn't matter, this doesn't matter, nothing matters.
I'll tell you everything ends badly, And he's the one
that's like, no, but that's not true. Even if it

(47:51):
wasn't great, I would still want to not do great
things with you. Yeah, laundry and taxes. We're gonna talk
more about that in a minute. There's also this whole

(48:14):
thing of Michelle Yo being an untraditional superhero because she's
an older Asian woman who's quite unconventional in her skills.
Superhero origin story in this movie, and she's kind of everything.
She's strong and weak, focused and lost all at once. Yeah,
and she gets to really shine, she gets to as
an actor, she gets to really showcase her skills. It's awesome.

(48:38):
She doesn't win all the awards. I might be upset.
I know it's pretty early this season to say this,
but I'm just saying. I'm just saying. And then there
is the whole theme of Asian American identity cultural divide.
Because Evelyn immigrated to the US as an adult, Joy
was born in the US, and we see this divide
in small and large moments throughout, perhaps most clearly in language. Yeah.

(49:01):
I think it's really interesting because it's very representative of
the first generation family as well. You'll see the new
children who come here are acclimated. They often can't speak.
And then we talked about this in Crying and h
Mart can't speak their parents' native language and they can understand,
which I ran into and I didn't realize was a thing.

(49:21):
In my mind. It was only adoptees who have not
been around it. And watching these generational kids of immigrants
or refugees and sitting there saying, yeah, I'm taking they
were taking Korean with me because they couldn't speak Korean,
they could understand it, and I found that fascinating too.
It I was like, really, because they were trying so

(49:42):
hard to assimilate into the country and not wanting to
be a foreigner slash an outsider. But it is. It's
very representative of that in a hole. Yeah. Yeah, And
there again are many great articles about that specific aspect
of this movie as well. Here is one quote from
Very Well Mind. Navigating between two cultures while never feeling

(50:06):
completely at home and either is referred to as a
culturation stress, and it can lead to a number of
negative consequences. Leaning Lamb, PhD. Lecture and counseling psychology at
Santa Clara University notes that a culturation stress results in
a pervasive sense of not being understood, feeling invalidated, feeling invisible,
of feeling like you have to constantly hide a part
of yourself. This can result in an unstable sense of identity,

(50:29):
as well as feelings of guilt and shame, which in
turn can lead to mental health challenges including depression, anxiety,
and suicidality. In Everything, Everywhere, the multiple identities assumed by
Jobu Tapaki throughout the movie, including a salsa dancer, a
tennis pro, and a multiversal goddess, could be seen as
a metaphor for the way Joy has learned to move
between cultures, even as her anger and sadness indicates that

(50:51):
she isn't happy in any of them. So this was
a whole article about the like it was about the right.
That's amazing. But I think, you know, that has a
lot to be said about the way that we don't
get enough representation and when we get it, we see it.
And this is one of those moments. And I say

(51:12):
we as in an Asian person living in the US.
I am technically Asian American. I guess in a way
I wasn't born in the US or whatever. But all
of that to say is there's so much too that
whatever if you look different in general from the quote
unquote norm of what that culture seems to be representing whatnot,

(51:34):
there's a lot to be said in the underlying basis
of trying to assimilate under the pressures of once against
societal norms. And yeah, I think this is even better
when talking about a family of refugees coming through and
trying to hold onto their identity at the same time
find their own identity, and yeah, this movie was for
her trying to seek all of that, but trying to

(51:56):
please her family as well, but just wanting to give
up not caring. But it's hard not to care, and
it makes you feel guilty so many things, everything everywhere.
There is plenty of Thuy racism throughout the movie against
Evelyn and her family, and also very clear signs that

(52:17):
Evelyn doesn't feel like she's been totally accepted into the community.
Also interesting with Waymond being both the sweet, goofy fanny
pack wearing kind of emasculated husband and the alpha versus
jumping version and the actor again very great interview I
read with him saying like it was such like he
never thought as a fifty year old I believe somewhere

(52:37):
near fifty he would get to be because he's like
the suave business person in one he's the action star
and one he's the like husband and one which I love.
I love. Yeah, his characters were so good, so diverse,
and when he did pop up as like in the Tuxedo,
I was like, oh wait, hello, Yes, and he he

(53:00):
did like he studied from what I read, he studied
different animals, and he's like, I wanted it to be
clear which Waymand we were dealing with based on the
way he moved and talked, and I was like, yeah,
you did it, did it? Did so good? He did
so good, so good. And speaking of this leads us
to our kind of fine old thing that I had

(53:21):
to include and you'll see what so I know, oh gosh.
So there is throughout like kindness and the importance of
kindness and Waymand kind of being the one who is
like all about that. And at first it's something Evelyn
sees is either our weakness or like he's just making

(53:41):
things more difficult for her, like he's not. She doesn't
understand why he brings missddre cookies, she doesn't understand why
he like puts the clothe the drag cleaning where they're
happy ERPs, like she doesn't understand all of these things.
She just sees them as sort of an annoyance and
told the end she appreciates it. And so yeah, there's
the whole theme between them of love and divorce. And

(54:07):
she has this line that's pretty painful, or she says
to Alpha Woyman, like I can't wait to show him
how good my life is without him, the idea of
the one because they like every universe, even if they're
not together, they're sort of like in each other's orbits.
And then I would say, like the grass is always
greener on the other side, all the could have beens

(54:30):
that always look better when you're not actually living that life.
And I think it's also for evidence sort of really
to low self esteem or looking down on yourself based
on the choices you've made and what you have or
have not become, and therefore the other people in your
life get pulled into that as well, Right, I mean,

(54:51):
there's definitely that common Like at the beginning when the
alpha woyman comes in, he says you're the most unskilled essentially,
that was like, yeah, how dared it is true? But
she she she believed it because yeah, she looked at
these different stances of like oh, I could have been
a chef, which she wasn't really a chef because yeah,

(55:16):
but like she was one of many, and she wasn't
as good as Raccocoon. Raccoon that really struggled with this
sport was at that point. But like even the Hollywood
version of like she was alone in that level, like
and she wondered when she was what she was missing
out on that level. But there's so many things to
that that I found interesting, and she definitely does really

(55:39):
well portraying because like I don't know, did they age
her in that film, because I'm like this, wow, Like
she looked beaten down, and I know makeup was amazing
and all day, but like even for her, she's not
one of those people I could ever see beaten down
in any at least way whatsoever. But like, yeah, that
was her character, was that she was already beaten down.

(56:00):
This one universal was just completely against hers. Yeah. Oh,
I mean yeah, she was definitely tired. Sheed, and I
tried to put together maybe this is for a revisit
in the future, but I tried to put together like
because it's everything everywhere, all at once, but it also
seems to be saying to me, you can't be you

(56:20):
can't have it all. Yeah, but the end is also
you know, being presence in a world full of distractions,
when she's hearing all these other universes, all these other
things she could have done or could be doing, choosing
to be present in that moment. But now I have
to talk about the sinnamon roll because this is an

(56:41):
example of it. Waymand is an example of it, and
like at the end when he's giving his speech, I'm like,
this is it. Essentially, this is like a thesis statement almost.
So one of my favorite fan fiction descriptions of it
is the strength of choosing to be kind in a
cruel universe, and Wayman is like, this is how I
fight with kindness. Like it's strategic, it's a purposeful choice

(57:03):
of survival, and I just love it. He's so sweet,
he's so adorable because he's just like always trying to
make people happy and kind of doing these goofy things.
He's always trying to make evil and happy. It's very
when they have the flashbacks of their relationship, which again,

(57:23):
of course he's asking for a divorce. It hasn't always
been good. But those other part to me that I
don't quite understand is why does it ever explain that?
I think from the things I read he because in
the beginning he's like, please, can we talk? Can we talk?
Can we talk? And she keeps me right. I think
it was sort of a last ditch I need to

(57:46):
talk to you, But yeah, that's maybe I'll rewatch it again.
And have a different take for you. And also, yeah,
this importance of seeking connection through other people, well, and
that's ultimately what Joebu Tobaki wanted. Um, that's why she
kept looking for Evelyn, and that's how Evelyn saved the day.

(58:08):
And yes, yes, brought her back from the everything bagel hole.
You're right, true story, It is absolutely true. Oh my gosh.
If you have not watched it and you've listened to
this episode, if your interest is not Pete right now,
but if you also have not watched it and listen
to this episode, please send us an email and tell

(58:30):
us what your take of what you think we are saying,
because I would love it to hear an interpretation of
what just happened here. I would too, and then go
watch it because it's great. Yeah, yeah, yes, well that's
what we have to say for now. I bet well,
I'll bet we'll revisit this one in the future. But
in the meantime, if you have any suggestions for our

(58:51):
future movie picks, please email them to us. You can
do so at Stephanie you Mom Stuff at iheartmeat dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at moms podcast or
an Instagram at stuff I'll never sold to you. Thanks
as always to our super producer Christina. Thank you Christina,
and thanks to you for listening stuff I never told
you as prediction of I Heeartradio. For more podcast in
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