February 3, 2024 • 49 mins
From ill-advised haircuts to sobbing over breakup songs, heartbreak is a powerful thing that can make us do all kinds of stuff. In this classic, Anney and Samantha examine the gender differences in heartbreak, dig into whether it can be deadly, share some personal experiences, and ask the ever-important question: will our heartbreak go on and on?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and'm welcome to stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I never told you a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
And we are moving into February of the new year,
which means we're going to have some fun contents around
romance or the lack of romance. We've already got some
plans some plans around it and classic Annie fashion. I
won't put this on usmanth although I think you do
(00:39):
the same.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Probably.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
I wanted to bring back an episode we did about
heartbreak and the science of heartbreak and like why you
like love you can relate to those breakup songs and
all of that stuff, you know, just because a lot
of us are probably thinking about that stuff right now.
We have some I'm really excited we're going to come
back and revisit online dating because there's a lot going
(01:04):
on with that right now. And we also are going
to come back and do your not two part episode.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Other episode, just another episode.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Just a related episode on magazines and particularly I think
a magazine. Magazines have a lot to say about romance. Yes,
I think it's gonna be fun, but in the meantime,
please enjoy this classic episode.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Welcome to stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I never told your protection of iHeartRadio's how stuff works.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
We're moving into the holidays.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
We are, you know what.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Though, after the intro, for some reason, the Mario theme
do Do Do Do Do Do just came into my head.
That's gonna be my new like themed background every time
we start our introduction.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
In your head?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
In my head?
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Okay, oh no, not, I'm not gonna help you would
be just in my head.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Just I just want you to know that's where I'm going.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
I'm like, if you want to give my head to
a copyright battle and Nintendo, I will follow you the dark.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
We will lose.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I do not.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Okay, okay, fine, but yes, holiday is coming.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
It is, which are the most wonderful time of the year.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
My least favorite time of the year for breakups.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
It's the wonderful breakup there you go.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yeah, in the US, more people break up this time
of year than any other time of year.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Which is really odd because I've heard this as the
cuffing season.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
You know that's this time.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
So Urban Dictionary has defined it as during the fall
and winter months, people who would normally rather be single
or promiscuous find themselves along with the rest of the
world desiring to be cuffed or tied down by theories relationship.
The cold weather and prolonged indoor activity causes singles to
become lonely and desperate to be cuffed individuals.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
So this is called the cuffing season.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Oh, I can't wait to see if this happens to me.
Now I get it. With me, I get it because
you know, I don't have to have to. I don't
deal with a lot of what is that called it's
not external relatives. So I have my immediate family that's
(03:33):
where the holidays and outside of that, I don't really
have much interaction at the holidays anymore.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
But you know, there's always the question of like, are
you still single?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Right going on there? So I get that kind of
anxiety around it.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Oh, me too.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
My family has a tradition in which they like to
take couples pictures or family's pictures, oh wow, throughout.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
And it doesn't matter if.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
It's just my immediate family, which involves me and three
of us siblings and then their family, or if it's
with my as you said, external I don't I'm not.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Really sure how to go about that.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
But like my cousins and all of that. Yes, yes,
y'all were doing this earlier.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Earlier, a little slur and normal.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, that was already bad. Now it's even worse.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
But they also do it too where they have family
pictures and they do it in front of everyone, in
front of the fireplace. And I remember one year and
by the way, I've never taken anyone home for a holiday,
except for friends who may need to stay, you know,
may not have their family nearby and can't go home.
I've never brought anybody. That's just not something I do.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Now.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
My siblings have just started taking people home at thirteen.
Who Yeah, and then there was my nieces and nephew,
not most, not all of them, but a few of
them started, like.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
At fifteen sixteen started bringing others with it. I'm like,
this is so weird.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
To be fair, again, I think a lot of them
would rather be with my family than their own family
or whatever the crisis was time. But yeah, they have
this habit of bringing people from a young age, and
so I've never done that.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
It's never been an interest to me. I don't care enough.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
Maybe, but because of that, they would have a couple
of pictures a couple of pictures, a couple of pictures,
and then I would be alone and my grant, my
poor sweet grandmother, and I loved her dearly would be like.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
You need to get up there too, and I was like.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
That's okay, I'm okay, I don't need to be by
myself in front of the damn fireplace. But she would
me so hard. My mom would get angry with me
for not doing it.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
And then as I.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Got older, I'm like, Mom, please, please, this makes me miserable.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
And she was like, you're right, you're right, and so
one year she's like, oh, I'll get up there with you.
So it was me and my mom. If it was
me and my dad, it was me.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
And someone else that was of significance but not a
significant other. Yeah, so that was always fun for the holidays.
There's so many reasons I don't like it, but that
was one of the other reasons.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
But man, if you had done that, you could make
a calendar of just me.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I should have leaned into it.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
I think it was partially like the shame of not bringing,
you know, as usual, because my younger cousins would bring people.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
And I mean when I say younger, I mean like
ten years younger. Right, would bring people and I'd be like, hey, y'all,
I'm gonna sit in the corner. All good, don't look
at me.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah, you know, I'm fine. I'm fine over here.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I can understand why the holidays they're stressful. And then
you're adding stuff like photos and meeting the family, and
I feel like I'm the type of person who would
wait and break up on the other.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Side of the holidays.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Right, I've only taken a significant other home once for
the holidays. No, Actually, what happened was he wanted he
was a big cruise person, and he wanted to do
a long cruise over Christmas in New Year's and so
I was going to miss Christmas, and we invited my
(06:57):
mom and my little brother to his place to have
like a Christmas dinner. And that's when I discovered, because
we spent most of the time at my place, he
had no nothing to cook with, like, so we had
to go buy like pots and and stuff, and it
was kind of a disaster.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Oh, that would be when I'm doing a catered mill.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Somehow I should have that was well, I was trying
to like replicate what I.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Would have my mom.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Yeah, and then we went on a cruise, and we
have all of these pictures of us, like Christmas trees
and New Year's.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
And Hawaiian shirts. Uh.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Usually for me, I'm just an athletic gear all the time.
That was when I was training for a marathon. Actually
training for a marathon on a brow ship.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Is hard as hell.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
I'm on a boat running.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Right, That's right.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
And you know we broke up not a couple of
months after that, and then the next year, my mom,
I don't know if I've told this story on the
show before.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I think I had, but Bradley Cooper came to our
office once and right, that's right. Yeah, she loved the story.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
My mom became obsessed with the idea that I could
marry Bradley Cooper because I he was in the office
and I did not even know he was in the office.
I saw him, and honestly, I thought it was another
corporate guy I was trying to avoid him.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Turns out as a Bradley Cooper.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
And my mom was I think shallow had just come out,
so she was in prime like Bradley Cooper mine. So
It'd be like nine pm on a Tuesday and I'd
get a text from my mom.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
You know he speaks French.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Like random bags about why you should be in love
with this person and then pursue him.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yes, I love it. I did too. I thought it
was hilarious. So I for a sponse.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
We had a sponsor that was like a gift card
holiday card company, and I had no significant other. I
don't have dogs or I don't have basically, it would
be just me, like you were saying, right, So I
got the idea to photo me and Bradley Cooper together
in this Christmas.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
Cart, got that wonderful Christmas call It's so good, It's
so good.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
And then on the back I wrote, you know you're
right mom, Brad and I.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
And she thought it was true. For like two seconds
she believed stopped with joy. It finally happened.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
But now my idea is every year I'm gonna like
up the ante and make more and more ridiculous photos,
which is awesome.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
I wish I could have stuff like that up until
about and we will stop with the personal stories. I know,
but up until about four or five years ago, when
a majority of my siblings which is all of my
siblings went through sad divorces my mom at Christmas holiday
traditions would be hard yelling at me about.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
How I'm going to die alone.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Oh gosh.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
Yes. So this is also another reason that I'm like,
this is the worst season of the So I should
start doing that. I should do some photo shopping and
be like, look, look what's happening.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
I'm dating dude. I need to find a good picture
of Chris Evans.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Oh, I need to like photoshop myself being hugged by him.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Okay, I can help you with this.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
I really wanted to hold me.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Okay, maybe one day.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
You know, we're actually not talking about specifically this, We're
talking about heartbreak.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
So my mother was heartbroken because there are a lot.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Of different types of heartbreak.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
I feel like the one that most people think of
is when your significant other you break up or something.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
But there's a bunch of different types.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
And we are going to be talking a lot about
clearly about that specific type of heartbreak, but we're going
to talk about others. And it is it does seem
to be a cultural obsession of ours.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
It's hard to avoid. I mean, on a daily basis.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
As I was walking here, I had Google Play on shuffle,
and I think every song was about heartbreak, and I
don't know if that's because I've been researching it and
Google knows everything you do, but I was kind of like, oh, yeah,
and I broke up with aforementioned boyfriend. I remember all
of a sudden these songs that I had been making
(11:08):
fun of.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I was like, yes, right, I feel it too.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
I absolutely understand that because they're still in the back
of my head and still on my playlist too. So
when I randomly shovel something, I was like, oh, that
emotion comes up.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, Oh there's that feeling.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
I can't listen to this right now. Right.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
It is funny how there's a part of at least
for me, there's a part of me that's sometimes I'm.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Like I want to live in this emotion, and then
other times I'm like, oh God.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
No, please, I gotta avoid it with all costs. So
I'm like, no, Taylor saw Swiss.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
So one of the things we're going to talk about
as well is something I know some of us have
heard about.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Can you die from heartbreak?
Speaker 3 (11:48):
And in my family, my grandfather died a month after
my grandmother, and we often say it was heartbreak. I
don't know that that I probably wasn't that, but he
was devastated when she died, and I think he just
kind of, I don't know if lost the will to live,
but it became much harder for him.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
Right, it seems that's a swift decline. Mm hmmm when
it's like that with my grandparents or the same thing. I
don't think it was. But maybe it's more so in
our head. But it feels like it's a heartbreak about
whatever situation has happened.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
In our past episode on emotional labor, we talked a
bit about the stats around male widowers who have a
higher mortality rate than female widowers. We've also done episodes
on how to deal with heartbreak. Here's some bad examples
are revenge body not so bad example, I guess is
post breakup haircut.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
It can be bad, it could be good.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
The bangs, Yeah, wouldn't get id.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Get even after I'd done that episode, I knew the
traps and the pitfalls, and I did it.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Anyway, have you.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Done something like that, not necessarily haircuts? I think I've
definitely done, like I need to get in shape.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, all those things.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
I do the crying a little bit, but I'm also
a little more motivated, and I'm like, I gotta do
anything but sit here.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
And think about it. Right, that's kind of that. And
I'm like, I'm gonna volunteer for this. I gotta do that.
I gotta do this.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
And then at night, I'm just like, I gotta find
a way to sleep. Where's my melotonin? I gotta hug
my dog. I gotta watch the same reruns, which is
not unusual for men.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
The other day, I guess.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
I have my infamous story around the office of accidentally
ordering seventy five cookies in my like.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Throes of the post breakup. The worst that got it
was three am. The cookie lady showed up at the
door and was like, oh, honey, I know you didn't
mean to do this.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
I was crying when I answered the door, and then
I took it was it was storming, and I took
the box of cookies and destroyed them with the.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Baseball bat outside.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Well, that's dramatic.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
It was a Shawshank redemption, but much less like meaningful moment.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
That's dramatic. Were you screaming at the cookie?
Speaker 2 (14:10):
I was like, like scream crying.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
In my head.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
I want to know that you threw a cookie up
and like it would yell throw a curse at him.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, and then the next day I had like the
grossest fleeting. I didn't do it. I was like, I
wonder if any of those cookies are salvagable.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
About. I'm not mad at I'm not mad at that.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
And then I have felt a new type of heartbreak
since my dad died, which is a more kind of
deep incurable sadness as opposed to for me that that
post breakup, which is really I think I've been through
two that were really serious post breakup, like grief, and
those are more I go through destructive rage and like
(14:54):
angry crying.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I guess a lot of that.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
And then I after I loved China, that was a
really a moment in my life that I would describe
as heartbreak. And when I walk to work every day,
there's just smell like a it's like an oil, just
cooking oil, and it reminds me of China. And every
day I feel like a pang. And that's been I mean,
I think twenty ten, twenty eleven years, so what if Yeah,
(15:22):
that's true, that's true. And I do think a lot
of people, including myself, we we have kind of these
markers of post breakup or post pet dying or post
whatever traumatic thing because there are life changing events, they're
transformative and you kind of write they're milestones.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Yeah, like I said, I definitely feel what I do
is kind of I slip into the motivation mode and
that might go into you know, post breakup body type
of situation. I also do lots of different other activities,
including like I thought myself to sleepless nights, so I
just sit there and talk about think about, you know,
what is wrong with me essentially, and then I dig
(16:04):
deep social background, y'all about analyzing my actual diagnosis, why
are these blah blah blah blah blah going back to
my childhood? And then also grief is definitely something that
brings a whole new heartbreak, a loss or death of
things that can't be healed without time and support oftentimes,
(16:24):
and of course it's always going to be there because
it's a part of losses permanent. So because death is permanent,
you know, and it sounds really obvious, but because of that,
there's no backing into everything's going to be fine.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
We could redo this, we could redo that.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
You know, you and I talked about this and our
death and loss in the Dutiful Daughter episode where there's
always going to.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Be a little bit of regret.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
It doesn't matter what it is, it doesn't matter how
perfect you think your relationship is, and it just is.
And then Dona is significant. I actually a greeve over
my dog still Benny, whom I called Bennington Zigler because
I just have to get a full name. And I
couldn't sleep in the bed without him, And it took
me years to even get a new dog, which we
talked about Peaches, and I'm already like I'm still kind
(17:13):
of like shaken by the idea. But it was weird
for me, and I think this has a whole lot
of different things. But my grandfather died within the same
year as my dog died, and I think my grandfather
had to pass away, and then my dog died, and
I grieved harder about my dog, but I think it
was just a culmination of all the things that had happened,
and it just felt even bigger lost on loss, you know.
(17:37):
And then I felt that way in my career, my job,
I've worn and lost as in what I believe is failures,
you know what I mean. I think I sometimes confuse
my failure and anxiety as lost, which is a thing
to stop. It's really hard to stop grieving over what
could have been what ifs, But the recovery is faster, hopefully,
(17:59):
hopefully if you can actually get on right track whatever
mental health situation you have. But yeah, I think that
was part of the bigger grieving process that I had
to go through. It was being heartbroken because I felt
like I couldn't do or say someone or you know,
even still like actually just recently happened, because obviously I'm
in the middle of doing two very different things as
(18:22):
my job and career, and I reflect on what I
was doing and I feel like, partially I'm like, did
I fail if I leave or if I try something new,
or what is this failure? So it's a weird like
grieving process for sure, and heartbreaking moments for me to
think on those things.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Yeah, and we've both talked about how I went through
a sense of heartbreak for like my younger self and
feeling like she was a little sister that died, and
that was kind of a pretty big grieving process.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
And through this show we've had to deal with that.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
I think for me that was one of the first
times I've like directly acknowledged it and dealt with it.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
But it was It's pretty serious.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
And I mean a lot of the things we're talking
about clearly heartbreak has major impact.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Is so powerful, dictakes a lot of our decisions, it does.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, like fear, fear of heartbreak is
such a motivator for so many people.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
If you have rejection, that definitely that kept me so
I I'm going to talk about a little later, but
that kept me from even trying to get into a
relationship right still still, yeah, it's it's scary.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
So one of the things we like to do, of course,
is our definitions. And as we said, we are going
to be talking a lot about breakup heartbreak. But you know,
there are all kinds of heartbreak. I remember having a
like round table with the women. This was before you
worked here, Smitha, but after Donald Trump was elected and
the women in this office, and like experiencing joint heartbreak.
(20:00):
Because we can experience like political heartbreak, loss of a
loved one, loss of pet, loss of agency, traumatic injury.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
There are a lot of.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Things that will give you this kind of like heart
pain that we're talking about, that steep de Yeah. According
to behavioral psychologist Joe Hemmings, heartbreak is a quote stage
of devastating emotional loss. While different for all of us,
the intense feelings of sadness, grief, and the overwhelming sense
of never being able to get past the pain are common.
(20:29):
And if we look at the brain, breakups trigger the
same area as physical pain, and they induce the same
symptoms as drug withdraw and not like drug withdraw light,
I think like medium drug withdraw. This is part of
the reason we fill the need to send ill advised
like night text to our scroll through our ex's Instagram.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, I do that? Oh I no way, Mmm, I'm
a little weird with that. So we all go through heartbreak.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Yet's just say that heartbreak is universal and on average,
by the age of thirty, most of us will have
experienced three breakups, with one of them significantly impacting our
quality of life for a period of time, and the
number one reason report for breakups lack of communication.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
No surprise to me, and Some symptoms of heartbreak include isolation,
isolating yourself, numbness, volatile emotions, unhealthy eating, working all the
time or inability to work, substance abuse, lack of sleep,
just these feelings of being unlovable, damaged, deeply unworthy, like
(21:31):
you'll never find happiness again. A study conducted by Christine
Tompkins out of University of Rochester put forth that broken
heart syndrome aka stress induced heart failure is a real thing.
This is also called stress induced cardiomyopathy or Takosubo cardiomyopathy.
Takasubo is a name for octovius traps that look like
(21:53):
broken hearts. Women are more likely to experience sharp heart
pains in response to emotional pain.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Further science has found links between mental health, depression, and
heart disease. Broken heart syndrome presents very similar to a
heart attack, shortness of breath, chest pains minus the blocked arteries.
What's happening is a part of your heart enlarges and
kind of falls down on the job when it comes
to pumping. But it usually only lasts a couple of weeks,
and it is treatable.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Yes, and I did want to put in here just
as a kind of joking, kind of serious aside, there
are some benefits start break. I mean the main one
is you learn a lesson, right, hopefully you learn something.
Are you appreciate somebody, you know. But for me, I
never put on real clothes, you know, eat cookies or
cheese or my case apparently fun shashetos all day, every day,
(22:43):
watching the same movies over and over again with no
judgment my friends. As I said, watch How to Train
Your Dragon with me probably three times in a row recently.
And obviously these aren't healthy in the long run. These
aren't healthy habits to build.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
But while you're in the throes of grief, I would
say acceptable.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Yeah. I usually give people a time frame.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah you do.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I do. If you're going through a recent divorce, I'll
give you a year.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Okay, I'll give you a year because it's a lot
of like up and down.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Well, honestly, it's just like trying to figure who you
are again without that person, longtime relationship, probably the same thing.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
I'm gonna give you a very long time. But then
at one point I'm.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Gonna be like, all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna I
do this for myself. I think I do a shorter
time frame for myself because I'm like, this is ridiculous,
get over it. But I'm like, okay, we gotta do
at least these things. But for now, we can dictate
exactly what you need, like you can tell me exactly
what you need, whether it's me coming in there and
just sitting with you in the dark, me leaving you
(23:41):
alone for a small amount of time. I'm not gonna
leave you alone too often because I have to check
and make sure you're okay. And then when it comes
to all right, maybe it's time for therapy, you know,
like rich, we all should do anyway, But it's definitely
some of those I'm like, all right, yes, you need time,
you need mourning for sure, but I'm gonna be the
friend that's gonna be there for you.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
And if that means tough love, I got it.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yes you do.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
And again we've talked about this a lot of times,
but people experience grief in different ways, and it's like
not linear.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
So one day you'll be oh, I'm fine, it's finally over,
and then the next day, oh my god, it's never
gonna end. Lots of ups and downs, and people do
experience it in a lot of different ways and a
lot of different timeframes. So you you have the best.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Knowledge of what you need, and you know, grief is
a it's a mysterious thing. So it's hard to it's
hard to look at yourself and say, I think I'll
be fine.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Give him this it is it is. Put that on
a pillow and melt it was.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Please just saying, you know, Samantha and I are very motivated,
and I'm sure a lot of you listeners are, but
sometimes time is the only thing right, right. But we
do have some other things we would like to talk about,
but first we have a quick break forward from our sponsor,
(25:21):
and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So we did want
to talk about gender differences, because there are some gender
differences when it comes to heartbreak. I bet a lot
of you would guess that women have it worse, or
at least they're more open with it.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
I guess open. Maybe they have all the fields more fields.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah, and we all know the stereotype of women. I've
already said that this is a benefit of the breakup
in your pjs, down in jugs of ice cream, through
the tears. And there is actually science about this, and
a science is a little mixed. Yeah, people are complicated.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
People are complicated, and I wonder how much of it's
too because if you look at religious aspects a lot
of the blame goes on women about something like relationships,
marriage is falling, and the responsibilities they have within a
marriage and keeping a marriage happy.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Yeah, yeah, I know that, that whole thing of like
blaming women for men cheating because you clearly weren't keeping
him satisfied.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Keep it together.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
You have to be fed, like actual books about from
written by women in order to get husbands.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
What is that called operation hot?
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
I not good? Yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
Actually, the book Passion and Purity, written by Elizabeth Elliott
a long long time ago, was a big, huge thing.
I actually read it, really dug into it, really just
put myself all up in there. And it's not awful.
There's not like it's not awful awful sentiments. Well, actually
yeah there is if we have. It's been a while
since I've read it. I guess the whole idea of
black purity in itself, which if we talked about as
(27:08):
of recent ti, the purity tests and the purity rings
are kind of gross in itself. I'm kind of actually
gross in itself. Two, if you want to be a virgin,
if you want to save yourself, however you want to
claim it, that's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
You do you, But to have this whole stipulation and
this title is absurd in itself, but and especially placing
it on young girls as their responsibility. But the same
author would go around and talk about how if you're
not keeping your body fit, you're dishonoring your husband.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
It was this whole thing, and I was like, what the.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Hell, Yeah, what the hell?
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Indeed, right, and it's similar like that.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
I think that has a lot to do with And
I know, again I'm getting off track because we're talking
about heartbreak. But that level of responsibility being placed on
women and females in general to say this may have
been your fault as to why he cheated, or may
have been your fault as so why you manage it
and last, it's just really absurd.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Yeah, and we're so ready to take it on anyway.
It's like we're probably.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Gonna take that.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
A twenty fourteen study from a UK dating site found
that men actually reported higher rates of love sickness and
sadness after a breakup, even given that it wasn't quote
true love that was the main difference. Men felt heartbreak
in more situations as compared to women.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
The severity was kind of the same.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
When interviewed about this finding, a psychologist suggested it may
be because men overestimate women's interests and it therefore hurts
more when women don't reciprocate their affections. And yeah, that's
very heterosexual, although I guess bisexual it could be.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
The study also found that men are more likely to
engage in casual sex post breakup, while women are more
likely to dive into work party too hard comfort eat
That sounds familiar.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
A different study found the exact opposite.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
It concluded that women feel the pain of breakups longer
and that new relationships don't necessarily help. The study also
found as the number of breakups went up, women's overall
mental health went down in a way that men's didn't. However,
it did find that single women's mental health was higher
than men's mental health.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Oh, I like that.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Women also reported feeling more physical pain. The study authors
who came to that conclusion thought that this had to
do with the fact that women do to the general
fact that we could get pregnant invest more in relationships.
This potential biological investment has made women choosier over time,
which means the loss of a quote high quality mate
hurts more. The same study found that women come out
(29:43):
on the other side as emotionally stronger and recover better
compared to men. Multiple studies have found that both men
and women find self esteem within relationships, so it makes
sense that after relationships end, it's a hit to our
self esteem. We feel a loss of identity. However, this
self esteem has arrived at differently. Women get it through connection,
(30:04):
while men get it through social status. Generally, in general terms,
because of these basic differences, men and women do typically
experience heartbreak differently. Men are more likely to get active
in some way, while women are more likely to reach
out to their support group. Because in a lot of societies,
women are allowed to be more open when it comes
to emotions, women may actually move on from breakups more
(30:25):
quickly than men, and this is one of the many
ways society influences how we grieve. Right, But this made
me think about what happens when you don't want to
be in relationship, and this comes up in my therapy
not infrequently, right, because it does make me feel sometimes
(30:46):
like I have no self worth since people are always
sort of like where you're incomplete, you're missing something. I
feel like society sees me generally as a waste. It's
made me do things I haven't wanted to do and
try to fit in I don't want to fit into.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Yeah, I think I was the same way. I felt
abnormal because I didn't get into too many relationships either,
as in, do I have a mental block as to
why I'm not looking as hard as others or why
I don't feel like I need to.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
I never actually dated in high school, and I actually
didn't date in college either.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
I think I went on the total of three dates,
and I didn't have any relationships within I think we
had like bitterly kiddish relationships, you know, he's my boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
We oriens, you know, in high school or whatever, but
never actually dated.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
And it wasn't until my mid twenties that I actually
started to look. And a lot of that had to
do it being open and feeling like I could be vulnerable,
and because of some of the trauma that I had experienced,
it was not possible for me. Of course, I think
I yearned to be wanted. That is something that's always
been at the forefront of my thoughts. But that's generally
(31:55):
in everything, whether it's my job, whether it's friendships that
someone wants me there essentially and my desirability and my
fear of rejection stop me.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Now.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
I'm very comfortable and being single. I think I said
that recently, Like that is something that I know, and
it is easy and I'm cool with it. So to
get into a relationship is like, do I really want
to compromise here? This is really worth my time. A
study from twenty eighteen out of the Journal of Experimental
Psychology examine the effectiveness of three coping strategies, thinking bad
thoughts about your ex, accepting your love for your ex,
(32:30):
or distracting yourself with things that have nothing to do
with your ex, which I like that option.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
They found that.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
All three help in some way, but a mix of
these methods provided the most relief. So maybe listening one
thing you don't like about person, one thing you love,
and then one thing that has nothing to do with them.
I think we should practice that more often. The study
authors propose that removing feelings of love attached with an
ex is the primary way to move on.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
They call this.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
Love regulation, which I love, I love regulation the term,
and they also, as always, recommend not making life changing
decisions during a life changing time.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, no, don't. It's so tempting because you're like,
this will takes everything.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Yeah, there are moments where I'm like, okay, I'm moving
out of the country.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
It's time to go to Antarctica. Finally for me. Another
study found that it takes about three months to get
it over a break up. Oh, I have taken so
much longer.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
I can do a year.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yeah, that's the year. I mean, it.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Depends on how long you've been with someone. Obviously, I'm
sure that's like an average.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
Like you'll always remember that, but still I give you
a full year before I'm like, okay, because that year
includes you and you shouldn't. But you probably dating around,
maybe miscommunicating with people, breaking a few people's hearts, not
necessarily in that way, like doing noncommittal things with the
(34:00):
hook ups as such.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
But I'm like, i'll give you that. I'll give you that.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
I'll let you know you're being a dumbass, but i'll
give you that. I'm not gonna be mad at you
for it.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Ah. Yes.
Speaker 4 (34:11):
Then, of course, there are the comparisons between men and
women in our media when it comes to breakups, how
women are so sad without a man in their life
and how men can finally live it up, be free,
have hookups.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Yeah, I always thinking of them.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
And I know we did an episode on this forever ago,
but the coverage of Jennifer Aniston like she's the saddest
person that's ever existed.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
Yeah, you're right, And it was always like, well, it
kind of did start off with a bread put thing. Yeah,
that whole he left you for Angelina Jolee, who was
the ultimate sex symbol because you're the girl next door.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Right, Yeah, and just like you know, she would date
somebody and then it would end and she's broken hearted
by the person she was dating. It's like finally able
to date all over again. And like, Okay, whatever I
think jenniferanis, it's just okay.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
But I mean, if you really think on it too,
in that level, Brad Pitt to me, was even sadder
because he would have you ever seen the pictures of
him in different relationships with different couples, how he mimicked
that style of.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
The girl.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
One of one of those so you're like, and so
to me, he.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Was always sadder because he's like he has to have
a relationship in order to find his identity. So yeah,
you need to go love that. It's hilarious. So you
see him with Quinn Talt and you're like what. And
then you see him with Angela and Joey and Brad
Pitt and you're like a Brad Pitt Angeline Joey and
then Jennifer anis or vices Edston.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
But he looks very different and very much like that person.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Who interested in these pictures. There is a Parks and
Rec episode about that.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Yes, I know you've never seen Star Wars and this
is not the one I would recommend. But in episode two,
Attack of the Clones, uh padme a ka, Nalie Portman
has the infamous line.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Anakin, you're breaking by heart. That's the first thing I
thought of.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
I love the enthusiasm in that line.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Oh you gotta do it.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Delivered it amazing.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
And I mean, if you pick just randomly three pieces
of media, I bet one of them has to do
with a broken heart.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
And I in a way, I believe we romanticize heartbreak
in a lot of ways in our in our media.
When I was.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Younger, I wanted to have a love that was so
powerful that the heartbreak would hurt as much as I
was seeing on TV or in movies, so I like,
I had on my binder a poem that the w
H autumn poem Funeral Blues.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
I was really into the beauty in Greece.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
It's also very emao what we all, well, you and
I were, And then I kind of I was thinking
about a bit more and I maybe we what we
romanticize is self destruction, or maybe it's a nation of
two things. Of this love that we always see and
then the self destructive.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
We love broken things though.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
That's kind of why we like shows that have broken
people in it. So you think of my so called life,
it's all about broken people like you just love that
and you want to fix.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Jared leto real hard, real hard, and.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
The people who seem to get it together, keep it
together and be happy were the antagonists or the bad
guys and the suture essentially, so the nerd it was
kind of like solid, like he was too smart and
got it together. And then the girl who had the
family and was a cheerleader was also not the great one.
When you had all these other things that were happening
that are more interesting, whether it was a drug overdo
(37:42):
so or whether it's you know, and it's definitely and
I say broken people, but.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
It's outcasts as well.
Speaker 4 (37:48):
And that's that level of we're very interested and we
feel that and we feel oh good, we're not alone hurting.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
That's true.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Oh and speaking of do you have a favorite heartbreak
breakups song, Samantha.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
So, I have a few.
Speaker 4 (38:01):
So I had several Elliott Smith songs. Of course, yeah,
I wanted to go down that road death Cab. I
definitely had a few of those songs up to me.
I think they had one of the best I Hate
my Father songs. Oh and it's somewhat upbeat and you're like, oh,
like one of the and then one of the lyrics
talking about how his mot father died and the priest
(38:24):
is talking all these great things about him. He's like,
you're a bastard in life, you saw You're a bastard,
and death like it's a great line. And then I'll
like them trying to send his ashes out and it
falls back into his eyes.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
He's like, yep, that's right. Thinks that like that level.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
Okay, of course I'm at living things, but even some
old school drake okay got into my playlist at one point,
and of course the Jimmy world. There are several several
songs that I would just angrily sing and then then
a few like that I would try too, had several
That was one of my first concerts.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
What about you?
Speaker 3 (38:59):
I think I I have a ton of sad, sad songs,
but I don't really have too many that I would
go to after a breakup. But I have songs that
if I listen to them, I will cry because the
music is really moving in that way.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
Yeah, music is powerful and I think that's why people
connect so hard with sad songs.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Yeah, if anyone wants my playlist, I have a playlist
called Grief and I will share it if anyone wants it.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
But they'll make you cry.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
Yeah, And you know what, if you don't want that,
we have some advice on how to like not cry,
not necessarily.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Maybe that's not true. We have some advice for you.
But first we have a quick break sponsors and we're back,
(40:05):
thank you sponsoring. So we do have some advice.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Even though a lot of you have probably heard this,
We've all probably heard a lot of the basic ones.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Right and find a hobby is a big one.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
You've sort of talked about that, exercising, eating well, sleeping
as best you can, talking out with friends, reading a book, volunteering,
taking tiny steps to make yourself feel normal again.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
And this is a big one.
Speaker 4 (40:29):
Yeah, A lot of experts recommend on following your ex
on social media and removing reminders of them from your life.
Stop all contact if possible.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
I'm gonna.
Speaker 4 (40:39):
I actually just looked up my excess stuff the other
day because I was in the conversation and we're talking
about past whatever.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Yeah, I was like, I wonder what he's doing.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
Not a good idea, No, no, Actually I was kind
of like, huh, surprise, interesting, interesting, And I think I'm
in a especially if you're in a really bad place
and then you talk paying your life to theirs.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Oh no, don't do that, don't do it. Yeah, I
still meet up with my ex regularly.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Thought to me.
Speaker 4 (41:08):
Yeah, to me, like my exes or my pasts, they
go into the land of nowhere, right, and to me,
I just disappear. They disappear. I never hear like, of course,
I'll just talk about stalking. But I would never ever
ever want to run into them. I never want to
see them. I'm like, they shouldn't exist. Okay, so coming
back to me, like you're friends with them. Yeah, it's
(41:29):
just the opposite, which is healthy, right. I'm yeah, I
never look at the Well, no, it's not that I
never do. I'm just not on social media that much
much anyway, so I just don't.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Run into that problem that often. But I do see
him in real life.
Speaker 4 (41:42):
I r L.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
And sometimes it does make me sad, like, you know,
we used to be so close, and yeah, it feels
sort of awkward.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
But you think about like you kind of lose friendships too.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
Yeah, sure, you know you got yours, they are gone,
you got to divide them.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Yeah, it's just just how life is.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
One big one is doing some introspection. Ask yourself what
it was that you liked about that person, and if
you can find those qualities and someone else. This is
easier to do a bit later in the grieving process.
But you know, you have those moments of hate that person.
(42:23):
I hate everything about them, But there was something, hopefully
that you were attracted to, and maybe that's an unhealthy thing, right,
Maybe it's a healthy thing, but maybe it's unhealthy. But
finding out what it was is always, you know, is
always a learning experience, right, right, you can, you can
move on and two bigger and better things, okay, and
(42:44):
then writing about it, making right about it, using it
to create.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Yeah, I write a lot more when I'm sad. I
will say that me too. Allow yourself to feel, be
honest with yourself.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
And if that's you need to cry a little bit,
or you have to sit and watch the same movies repeatedly,
that's fine. If you just want to sit in the
dart for a couple of days, that's okay too. But eventually, yes,
you do need to shake it off.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
That's when the Taylor swift comes out.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Yes, and always good to communicate with the support group
in your life, right what's going on, so that they
can help you and provide that support. And of course,
the unpopular but true time time heals most woods. It
makes things easier, hopefully hopefully eventually. On that positive note,
(43:33):
that's what we have to say about heartbreak today. But
I am really excited to share some listener mail that
we receive. Yes, Kate wrote, although the most wonderful time
of the year is over Halloween, as a fellow horror fan,
I thought I would send you some recommendations just in
case you need more. Always send recommendations. Yes, one cut
(43:56):
of the Dead. It is on shutter UK, not sure
if it is on the US version. It is a
zombie comedy.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
The first half hour maybe a little confusing, but stick
with it. It is great to watch with a crowd.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
Also, if you like zombie movies and haven't already seen it,
Trained Busan is great.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
One of my favorites.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Yeah, that's a good one. I sobbed at the end.
Terrified again and on shutter UK. A Spanish language movie
that I found unsettling, to say the least.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Knives and Skin.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
I saw this at FrightFest this year, UK horror film festival.
Isn't strictly horror, but has twin peak vibes and has
been described as a feminist noir. Ooh yeah, I really
loved it. Looks like it's not available until December. I
know you like the superhero genre. In case you also
like manga, I highly recommend the TV series Attack on Titan,
a horror fantasy show. I often think about whether the
(44:44):
horror genre is a feminist genre. Women are always telling
men there's something out there, there's something wrong, and the
men are consistently gaslighting them, ignoring their concerns before too long,
everyone's dead apart from one final girl.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Maybe the true horror is the patriarchy.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Horror movies would be over five minutes if people listen
to Women.
Speaker 4 (45:05):
I love Yeah, you start thinking about all of the
things that could have been solved, you know why, and
then you have to be oh, because the movie would
not be a movie, right.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
We would have no horror movies. What I find interesting
is that it is mostly men making horror movies, but
yet they don't seem to learn from what I think
is the key message of the movie. Listen to Women.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
There are some good podcasts on horror if you are interested.
Just suggesting a couple She Kills, which explores horror through
a female lens, and the Evolution of Horror, which explores
all the different horror genres and how they developed as
you grew up with the screen franchise. You might be
interested in this eight minute documentary called Copycat, which suggests
it may not be as original as everyone thinks.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Oh, I love all of this. I love the suggestions.
Please keep those coming.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
And another listener wrote in with some different suggestions. Kim
wrote after listening to feminist movie Friday, Alien Edition I
am mailing in. I'm a thirty four year old woman
who enjoys lots and lots of horrory feminist horror movie plotlines.
To think about Last House on the Left. This is
so graphic, trigger warning for rape, etc. Parents Getting Revenge, Texas,
(46:09):
Chainsaw Massacre, Final Girl survives because she doesn't do stupid stuff.
Midsummer Hereditary, The Descent, Everything, The Witch, Female Liberation lived deliciously.
I spin on your Grave, Revenge graphic, questionable, Halloween. Sorry,
Laurie does everything to survive and kill her nutty brother,
which makes her badass.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Who cares if she's a virgin.
Speaker 3 (46:31):
Jennifer's body for that matter, anything Diabo Cody Ever wrote
for Film Night of the comment Zombie fighting Valley Girls,
It's can't be but great The Craft Marianne, which is
new on Netflix. Also, you mentioned Ripley being the start
of strong female characters like Buffy, but I couldn't help
but think of Linda Hamilton as Sarah Conner. She was
one of the baddest of the badasses post Alien. Thanks
(46:54):
for covering anything horror. I feel like we ladies don't
get fair representation. Will weigh in on reviews or being
part of this community. You're welcome and I will happily
do so always. Kim later followed up with more suggestions
after Our Monster, our Female Monster episode Misery Gaffy Baits
obviously the audition certainly Harbor. Perhaps also just considered Asian
(47:16):
extreme high tension, which is French hand that rocks the cradle,
single white female swim fan, the crush, that's big genre,
evil dead. All the women are possessed by demons and
made to do evil, gross things. This was a choice
by Rami sam Ramie Sharp Objects. Also the short from
Tales from the Dark Side movie. Also this movie sucked,
(47:39):
but it's worth mentioning Knock Knock the neon demon Starry Eyes,
a woman moves to La trying to get her big break.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
She was willing to do anything.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
She spirals and kills all of her terrible roommates and
then turns into an alien after totally rotting.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
And falling apart.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
I can't remember this title helped me, lol, I have
seen that movie.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
I'll get back to you about that.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
What I remember what it is Eyes Without a Face,
which is a black and white French monster movie. I
can see this influenced later in other horror movies. So
if you wanted some suggestions for horror, these listeners got
you got right.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Ill I've only seen like two of those the bottom list.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
I've seen those. I've seen a lot of them.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
Yeah, yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
Well you've got some fun homework today.
Speaker 4 (48:26):
And you and I because she mentioned and they both
mentioned a lot about like mothers, you know, and I
talked about that previously. We did some shout outs to
different podcasts that we want.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
To highlight because they're amazing and led by women or females.
Speaker 4 (48:41):
The Scam Wow, which is super fun Sue and Sue
and Katie talk about different scams, including and I didn't
listen to the one the wedding industry and poop Tea,
and I was like, oh, I like that. And then
there's also to go with our heartbreak. This is why
I'm single with Amy and Amy and sometimes Chuck. They
(49:01):
talk about the good, the bad, and the worst relationships
all the way from divorces even to boobs.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
You know, I love anything that talks about any of
those things.
Speaker 3 (49:12):
Well, there you go, listeners, and if you have any
suggestions for things we should shout out horror movies we
should be watching our next feminist movie Friday. I know
there's been some talk of the craft. Please right in.
You can do so at our email address, which is
Stuff Media, Momstuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can also
find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on
(49:32):
Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks, as always
to a super producer, Andrew Howard, you and thanks to
you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You the protection
of iHeartRadio's house Stuff works. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and'm welcome to stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I never told you a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
And we are moving into February of the new year,
which means we're going to have some fun contents around
romance or the lack of romance. We've already got some
plans some plans around it and classic Annie fashion. I
won't put this on usmanth although I think you do
(00:39):
the same.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Probably.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
I wanted to bring back an episode we did about
heartbreak and the science of heartbreak and like why you
like love you can relate to those breakup songs and
all of that stuff, you know, just because a lot
of us are probably thinking about that stuff right now.
We have some I'm really excited we're going to come
back and revisit online dating because there's a lot going
(01:04):
on with that right now. And we also are going
to come back and do your not two part episode.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Other episode, just another episode.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Just a related episode on magazines and particularly I think
a magazine. Magazines have a lot to say about romance. Yes,
I think it's gonna be fun, but in the meantime,
please enjoy this classic episode.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Welcome to stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
I never told your protection of iHeartRadio's how stuff works.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
We're moving into the holidays.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
We are, you know what.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Though, after the intro, for some reason, the Mario theme
do Do Do Do Do Do just came into my head.
That's gonna be my new like themed background every time
we start our introduction.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
In your head?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
In my head?
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Okay, oh no, not, I'm not gonna help you would
be just in my head.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Just I just want you to know that's where I'm going.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
I'm like, if you want to give my head to
a copyright battle and Nintendo, I will follow you the dark.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
We will lose.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I do not.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Okay, okay, fine, but yes, holiday is coming.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
It is, which are the most wonderful time of the year.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
My least favorite time of the year for breakups.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
It's the wonderful breakup there you go.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yeah, in the US, more people break up this time
of year than any other time of year.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Which is really odd because I've heard this as the
cuffing season.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
You know that's this time.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
So Urban Dictionary has defined it as during the fall
and winter months, people who would normally rather be single
or promiscuous find themselves along with the rest of the
world desiring to be cuffed or tied down by theories relationship.
The cold weather and prolonged indoor activity causes singles to
become lonely and desperate to be cuffed individuals.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
So this is called the cuffing season.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Oh, I can't wait to see if this happens to me.
Now I get it. With me, I get it because
you know, I don't have to have to. I don't
deal with a lot of what is that called it's
not external relatives. So I have my immediate family that's
(03:33):
where the holidays and outside of that, I don't really
have much interaction at the holidays anymore.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
But you know, there's always the question of like, are
you still single?
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Right going on there? So I get that kind of
anxiety around it.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Oh, me too.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
My family has a tradition in which they like to
take couples pictures or family's pictures, oh wow, throughout.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
And it doesn't matter if.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
It's just my immediate family, which involves me and three
of us siblings and then their family, or if it's
with my as you said, external I don't I'm not.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Really sure how to go about that.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
But like my cousins and all of that. Yes, yes,
y'all were doing this earlier.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Earlier, a little slur and normal.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, that was already bad. Now it's even worse.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
But they also do it too where they have family
pictures and they do it in front of everyone, in
front of the fireplace. And I remember one year and
by the way, I've never taken anyone home for a holiday,
except for friends who may need to stay, you know,
may not have their family nearby and can't go home.
I've never brought anybody. That's just not something I do.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Now.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
My siblings have just started taking people home at thirteen.
Who Yeah, and then there was my nieces and nephew,
not most, not all of them, but a few of
them started, like.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
At fifteen sixteen started bringing others with it. I'm like,
this is so weird.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
To be fair, again, I think a lot of them
would rather be with my family than their own family
or whatever the crisis was time. But yeah, they have
this habit of bringing people from a young age, and
so I've never done that.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
It's never been an interest to me. I don't care enough.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
Maybe, but because of that, they would have a couple
of pictures a couple of pictures, a couple of pictures,
and then I would be alone and my grant, my
poor sweet grandmother, and I loved her dearly would be like.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
You need to get up there too, and I was like.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
That's okay, I'm okay, I don't need to be by
myself in front of the damn fireplace. But she would
me so hard. My mom would get angry with me
for not doing it.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
And then as I.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Got older, I'm like, Mom, please, please, this makes me miserable.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
And she was like, you're right, you're right, and so
one year she's like, oh, I'll get up there with you.
So it was me and my mom. If it was
me and my dad, it was me.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
And someone else that was of significance but not a
significant other. Yeah, so that was always fun for the holidays.
There's so many reasons I don't like it, but that
was one of the other reasons.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
But man, if you had done that, you could make
a calendar of just me.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I should have leaned into it.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
I think it was partially like the shame of not bringing,
you know, as usual, because my younger cousins would bring people.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
And I mean when I say younger, I mean like
ten years younger. Right, would bring people and I'd be like, hey, y'all,
I'm gonna sit in the corner. All good, don't look
at me.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah, you know, I'm fine. I'm fine over here.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
I can understand why the holidays they're stressful. And then
you're adding stuff like photos and meeting the family, and
I feel like I'm the type of person who would
wait and break up on the other.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Side of the holidays.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Right, I've only taken a significant other home once for
the holidays. No, Actually, what happened was he wanted he
was a big cruise person, and he wanted to do
a long cruise over Christmas in New Year's and so
I was going to miss Christmas, and we invited my
(06:57):
mom and my little brother to his place to have
like a Christmas dinner. And that's when I discovered, because
we spent most of the time at my place, he
had no nothing to cook with, like, so we had
to go buy like pots and and stuff, and it
was kind of a disaster.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Oh, that would be when I'm doing a catered mill.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Somehow I should have that was well, I was trying
to like replicate what I.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Would have my mom.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Yeah, and then we went on a cruise, and we
have all of these pictures of us, like Christmas trees
and New Year's.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
And Hawaiian shirts. Uh.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Usually for me, I'm just an athletic gear all the time.
That was when I was training for a marathon. Actually
training for a marathon on a brow ship.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Is hard as hell.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
I'm on a boat running.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Right, That's right.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
And you know we broke up not a couple of
months after that, and then the next year, my mom,
I don't know if I've told this story on the
show before.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I think I had, but Bradley Cooper came to our
office once and right, that's right. Yeah, she loved the story.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
My mom became obsessed with the idea that I could
marry Bradley Cooper because I he was in the office
and I did not even know he was in the office.
I saw him, and honestly, I thought it was another
corporate guy I was trying to avoid him.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Turns out as a Bradley Cooper.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
And my mom was I think shallow had just come out,
so she was in prime like Bradley Cooper mine. So
It'd be like nine pm on a Tuesday and I'd
get a text from my mom.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
You know he speaks French.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Like random bags about why you should be in love
with this person and then pursue him.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yes, I love it. I did too. I thought it
was hilarious. So I for a sponse.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
We had a sponsor that was like a gift card
holiday card company, and I had no significant other. I
don't have dogs or I don't have basically, it would
be just me, like you were saying, right, So I
got the idea to photo me and Bradley Cooper together
in this Christmas.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
Cart, got that wonderful Christmas call It's so good, It's
so good.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
And then on the back I wrote, you know you're
right mom, Brad and I.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
And she thought it was true. For like two seconds
she believed stopped with joy. It finally happened.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
But now my idea is every year I'm gonna like
up the ante and make more and more ridiculous photos,
which is awesome.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
I wish I could have stuff like that up until
about and we will stop with the personal stories. I know,
but up until about four or five years ago, when
a majority of my siblings which is all of my
siblings went through sad divorces my mom at Christmas holiday
traditions would be hard yelling at me about.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
How I'm going to die alone.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Oh gosh.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
Yes. So this is also another reason that I'm like,
this is the worst season of the So I should
start doing that. I should do some photo shopping and
be like, look, look what's happening.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
I'm dating dude. I need to find a good picture
of Chris Evans.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Oh, I need to like photoshop myself being hugged by him.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Okay, I can help you with this.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
I really wanted to hold me.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Okay, maybe one day.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
You know, we're actually not talking about specifically this, We're
talking about heartbreak.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
So my mother was heartbroken because there are a lot.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Of different types of heartbreak.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
I feel like the one that most people think of
is when your significant other you break up or something.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
But there's a bunch of different types.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
And we are going to be talking a lot about
clearly about that specific type of heartbreak, but we're going
to talk about others. And it is it does seem
to be a cultural obsession of ours.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
It's hard to avoid. I mean, on a daily basis.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
As I was walking here, I had Google Play on shuffle,
and I think every song was about heartbreak, and I
don't know if that's because I've been researching it and
Google knows everything you do, but I was kind of like, oh, yeah,
and I broke up with aforementioned boyfriend. I remember all
of a sudden these songs that I had been making
(11:08):
fun of.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I was like, yes, right, I feel it too.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
I absolutely understand that because they're still in the back
of my head and still on my playlist too. So
when I randomly shovel something, I was like, oh, that
emotion comes up.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, Oh there's that feeling.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
I can't listen to this right now. Right.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
It is funny how there's a part of at least
for me, there's a part of me that's sometimes I'm.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Like I want to live in this emotion, and then
other times I'm like, oh God.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
No, please, I gotta avoid it with all costs. So
I'm like, no, Taylor saw Swiss.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
So one of the things we're going to talk about
as well is something I know some of us have
heard about.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Can you die from heartbreak?
Speaker 3 (11:48):
And in my family, my grandfather died a month after
my grandmother, and we often say it was heartbreak. I
don't know that that I probably wasn't that, but he
was devastated when she died, and I think he just
kind of, I don't know if lost the will to live,
but it became much harder for him.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
Right, it seems that's a swift decline. Mm hmmm when
it's like that with my grandparents or the same thing. I
don't think it was. But maybe it's more so in
our head. But it feels like it's a heartbreak about
whatever situation has happened.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
In our past episode on emotional labor, we talked a
bit about the stats around male widowers who have a
higher mortality rate than female widowers. We've also done episodes
on how to deal with heartbreak. Here's some bad examples
are revenge body not so bad example, I guess is
post breakup haircut.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
It can be bad, it could be good.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
The bangs, Yeah, wouldn't get id.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Get even after I'd done that episode, I knew the
traps and the pitfalls, and I did it.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Anyway, have you.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Done something like that, not necessarily haircuts? I think I've
definitely done, like I need to get in shape.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Yeah, all those things.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
I do the crying a little bit, but I'm also
a little more motivated, and I'm like, I gotta do
anything but sit here.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
And think about it. Right, that's kind of that. And
I'm like, I'm gonna volunteer for this. I gotta do that.
I gotta do this.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
And then at night, I'm just like, I gotta find
a way to sleep. Where's my melotonin? I gotta hug
my dog. I gotta watch the same reruns, which is
not unusual for men.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
The other day, I guess.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
I have my infamous story around the office of accidentally
ordering seventy five cookies in my like.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Throes of the post breakup. The worst that got it
was three am. The cookie lady showed up at the
door and was like, oh, honey, I know you didn't
mean to do this.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
I was crying when I answered the door, and then
I took it was it was storming, and I took
the box of cookies and destroyed them with the.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Baseball bat outside.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Well, that's dramatic.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
It was a Shawshank redemption, but much less like meaningful moment.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
That's dramatic. Were you screaming at the cookie?
Speaker 2 (14:10):
I was like, like scream crying.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
In my head.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
I want to know that you threw a cookie up
and like it would yell throw a curse at him.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, and then the next day I had like the
grossest fleeting. I didn't do it. I was like, I
wonder if any of those cookies are salvagable.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
About. I'm not mad at I'm not mad at that.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
And then I have felt a new type of heartbreak
since my dad died, which is a more kind of
deep incurable sadness as opposed to for me that that
post breakup, which is really I think I've been through
two that were really serious post breakup, like grief, and
those are more I go through destructive rage and like
(14:54):
angry crying.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I guess a lot of that.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
And then I after I loved China, that was a
really a moment in my life that I would describe
as heartbreak. And when I walk to work every day,
there's just smell like a it's like an oil, just
cooking oil, and it reminds me of China. And every
day I feel like a pang. And that's been I mean,
I think twenty ten, twenty eleven years, so what if Yeah,
(15:22):
that's true, that's true. And I do think a lot
of people, including myself, we we have kind of these
markers of post breakup or post pet dying or post
whatever traumatic thing because there are life changing events, they're
transformative and you kind of write they're milestones.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Yeah, like I said, I definitely feel what I do
is kind of I slip into the motivation mode and
that might go into you know, post breakup body type
of situation. I also do lots of different other activities,
including like I thought myself to sleepless nights, so I
just sit there and talk about think about, you know,
what is wrong with me essentially, and then I dig
(16:04):
deep social background, y'all about analyzing my actual diagnosis, why
are these blah blah blah blah blah going back to
my childhood? And then also grief is definitely something that
brings a whole new heartbreak, a loss or death of
things that can't be healed without time and support oftentimes,
(16:24):
and of course it's always going to be there because
it's a part of losses permanent. So because death is permanent,
you know, and it sounds really obvious, but because of that,
there's no backing into everything's going to be fine.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
We could redo this, we could redo that.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
You know, you and I talked about this and our
death and loss in the Dutiful Daughter episode where there's
always going to.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Be a little bit of regret.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
It doesn't matter what it is, it doesn't matter how
perfect you think your relationship is, and it just is.
And then Dona is significant. I actually a greeve over
my dog still Benny, whom I called Bennington Zigler because
I just have to get a full name. And I
couldn't sleep in the bed without him, And it took
me years to even get a new dog, which we
talked about Peaches, and I'm already like I'm still kind
(17:13):
of like shaken by the idea. But it was weird
for me, and I think this has a whole lot
of different things. But my grandfather died within the same
year as my dog died, and I think my grandfather
had to pass away, and then my dog died, and
I grieved harder about my dog, but I think it
was just a culmination of all the things that had happened,
and it just felt even bigger lost on loss, you know.
(17:37):
And then I felt that way in my career, my job,
I've worn and lost as in what I believe is failures,
you know what I mean. I think I sometimes confuse
my failure and anxiety as lost, which is a thing
to stop. It's really hard to stop grieving over what
could have been what ifs, But the recovery is faster, hopefully,
(17:59):
hopefully if you can actually get on right track whatever
mental health situation you have. But yeah, I think that
was part of the bigger grieving process that I had
to go through. It was being heartbroken because I felt
like I couldn't do or say someone or you know,
even still like actually just recently happened, because obviously I'm
in the middle of doing two very different things as
(18:22):
my job and career, and I reflect on what I
was doing and I feel like, partially I'm like, did
I fail if I leave or if I try something new,
or what is this failure? So it's a weird like
grieving process for sure, and heartbreaking moments for me to
think on those things.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Yeah, and we've both talked about how I went through
a sense of heartbreak for like my younger self and
feeling like she was a little sister that died, and
that was kind of a pretty big grieving process.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
And through this show we've had to deal with that.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
I think for me that was one of the first
times I've like directly acknowledged it and dealt with it.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
But it was It's pretty serious.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
And I mean a lot of the things we're talking
about clearly heartbreak has major impact.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Is so powerful, dictakes a lot of our decisions, it does.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, like fear, fear of heartbreak is
such a motivator for so many people.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
If you have rejection, that definitely that kept me so
I I'm going to talk about a little later, but
that kept me from even trying to get into a
relationship right still still, yeah, it's it's scary.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
So one of the things we like to do, of course,
is our definitions. And as we said, we are going
to be talking a lot about breakup heartbreak. But you know,
there are all kinds of heartbreak. I remember having a
like round table with the women. This was before you
worked here, Smitha, but after Donald Trump was elected and
the women in this office, and like experiencing joint heartbreak.
(20:00):
Because we can experience like political heartbreak, loss of a
loved one, loss of pet, loss of agency, traumatic injury.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
There are a lot of.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Things that will give you this kind of like heart
pain that we're talking about, that steep de Yeah. According
to behavioral psychologist Joe Hemmings, heartbreak is a quote stage
of devastating emotional loss. While different for all of us,
the intense feelings of sadness, grief, and the overwhelming sense
of never being able to get past the pain are common.
(20:29):
And if we look at the brain, breakups trigger the
same area as physical pain, and they induce the same
symptoms as drug withdraw and not like drug withdraw light,
I think like medium drug withdraw. This is part of
the reason we fill the need to send ill advised
like night text to our scroll through our ex's Instagram.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, I do that? Oh I no way, Mmm, I'm
a little weird with that. So we all go through heartbreak.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Yet's just say that heartbreak is universal and on average,
by the age of thirty, most of us will have
experienced three breakups, with one of them significantly impacting our
quality of life for a period of time, and the
number one reason report for breakups lack of communication.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
No surprise to me, and Some symptoms of heartbreak include isolation,
isolating yourself, numbness, volatile emotions, unhealthy eating, working all the
time or inability to work, substance abuse, lack of sleep,
just these feelings of being unlovable, damaged, deeply unworthy, like
(21:31):
you'll never find happiness again. A study conducted by Christine
Tompkins out of University of Rochester put forth that broken
heart syndrome aka stress induced heart failure is a real thing.
This is also called stress induced cardiomyopathy or Takosubo cardiomyopathy.
Takasubo is a name for octovius traps that look like
(21:53):
broken hearts. Women are more likely to experience sharp heart
pains in response to emotional pain.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Further science has found links between mental health, depression, and
heart disease. Broken heart syndrome presents very similar to a
heart attack, shortness of breath, chest pains minus the blocked arteries.
What's happening is a part of your heart enlarges and
kind of falls down on the job when it comes
to pumping. But it usually only lasts a couple of weeks,
and it is treatable.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Yes, and I did want to put in here just
as a kind of joking, kind of serious aside, there
are some benefits start break. I mean the main one
is you learn a lesson, right, hopefully you learn something.
Are you appreciate somebody, you know. But for me, I
never put on real clothes, you know, eat cookies or
cheese or my case apparently fun shashetos all day, every day,
(22:43):
watching the same movies over and over again with no
judgment my friends. As I said, watch How to Train
Your Dragon with me probably three times in a row recently.
And obviously these aren't healthy in the long run. These
aren't healthy habits to build.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
But while you're in the throes of grief, I would
say acceptable.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Yeah. I usually give people a time frame.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah you do.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I do. If you're going through a recent divorce, I'll
give you a year.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Okay, I'll give you a year because it's a lot
of like up and down.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Well, honestly, it's just like trying to figure who you
are again without that person, longtime relationship, probably the same thing.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
I'm gonna give you a very long time. But then
at one point I'm.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Gonna be like, all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna I
do this for myself. I think I do a shorter
time frame for myself because I'm like, this is ridiculous,
get over it. But I'm like, okay, we gotta do
at least these things. But for now, we can dictate
exactly what you need, like you can tell me exactly
what you need, whether it's me coming in there and
just sitting with you in the dark, me leaving you
(23:41):
alone for a small amount of time. I'm not gonna
leave you alone too often because I have to check
and make sure you're okay. And then when it comes
to all right, maybe it's time for therapy, you know,
like rich, we all should do anyway, But it's definitely
some of those I'm like, all right, yes, you need time,
you need mourning for sure, but I'm gonna be the
friend that's gonna be there for you.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
And if that means tough love, I got it.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yes you do.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
And again we've talked about this a lot of times,
but people experience grief in different ways, and it's like
not linear.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
So one day you'll be oh, I'm fine, it's finally over,
and then the next day, oh my god, it's never
gonna end. Lots of ups and downs, and people do
experience it in a lot of different ways and a
lot of different timeframes. So you you have the best.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Knowledge of what you need, and you know, grief is
a it's a mysterious thing. So it's hard to it's
hard to look at yourself and say, I think I'll
be fine.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Give him this it is it is. Put that on
a pillow and melt it was.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Please just saying, you know, Samantha and I are very motivated,
and I'm sure a lot of you listeners are, but
sometimes time is the only thing right, right. But we
do have some other things we would like to talk about,
but first we have a quick break forward from our sponsor,
(25:21):
and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So we did want
to talk about gender differences, because there are some gender
differences when it comes to heartbreak. I bet a lot
of you would guess that women have it worse, or
at least they're more open with it.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
I guess open. Maybe they have all the fields more fields.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah, and we all know the stereotype of women. I've
already said that this is a benefit of the breakup
in your pjs, down in jugs of ice cream, through
the tears. And there is actually science about this, and
a science is a little mixed. Yeah, people are complicated.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
People are complicated, and I wonder how much of it's
too because if you look at religious aspects a lot
of the blame goes on women about something like relationships,
marriage is falling, and the responsibilities they have within a
marriage and keeping a marriage happy.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Yeah, yeah, I know that, that whole thing of like
blaming women for men cheating because you clearly weren't keeping
him satisfied.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Keep it together.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
You have to be fed, like actual books about from
written by women in order to get husbands.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
What is that called operation hot?
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
I not good? Yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
Actually, the book Passion and Purity, written by Elizabeth Elliott
a long long time ago, was a big, huge thing.
I actually read it, really dug into it, really just
put myself all up in there. And it's not awful.
There's not like it's not awful awful sentiments. Well, actually
yeah there is if we have. It's been a while
since I've read it. I guess the whole idea of
black purity in itself, which if we talked about as
(27:08):
of recent ti, the purity tests and the purity rings
are kind of gross in itself. I'm kind of actually
gross in itself. Two, if you want to be a virgin,
if you want to save yourself, however you want to
claim it, that's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
You do you, But to have this whole stipulation and
this title is absurd in itself, but and especially placing
it on young girls as their responsibility. But the same
author would go around and talk about how if you're
not keeping your body fit, you're dishonoring your husband.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
It was this whole thing, and I was like, what the.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Hell, Yeah, what the hell?
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Indeed, right, and it's similar like that.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
I think that has a lot to do with And
I know, again I'm getting off track because we're talking
about heartbreak. But that level of responsibility being placed on
women and females in general to say this may have
been your fault as to why he cheated, or may
have been your fault as so why you manage it
and last, it's just really absurd.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Yeah, and we're so ready to take it on anyway.
It's like we're probably.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Gonna take that.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
A twenty fourteen study from a UK dating site found
that men actually reported higher rates of love sickness and
sadness after a breakup, even given that it wasn't quote
true love that was the main difference. Men felt heartbreak
in more situations as compared to women.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
The severity was kind of the same.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
When interviewed about this finding, a psychologist suggested it may
be because men overestimate women's interests and it therefore hurts
more when women don't reciprocate their affections. And yeah, that's
very heterosexual, although I guess bisexual it could be.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
The study also found that men are more likely to
engage in casual sex post breakup, while women are more
likely to dive into work party too hard comfort eat
That sounds familiar.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
A different study found the exact opposite.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
It concluded that women feel the pain of breakups longer
and that new relationships don't necessarily help. The study also
found as the number of breakups went up, women's overall
mental health went down in a way that men's didn't. However,
it did find that single women's mental health was higher
than men's mental health.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Oh, I like that.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Women also reported feeling more physical pain. The study authors
who came to that conclusion thought that this had to
do with the fact that women do to the general
fact that we could get pregnant invest more in relationships.
This potential biological investment has made women choosier over time,
which means the loss of a quote high quality mate
hurts more. The same study found that women come out
(29:43):
on the other side as emotionally stronger and recover better
compared to men. Multiple studies have found that both men
and women find self esteem within relationships, so it makes
sense that after relationships end, it's a hit to our
self esteem. We feel a loss of identity. However, this
self esteem has arrived at differently. Women get it through connection,
(30:04):
while men get it through social status. Generally, in general terms,
because of these basic differences, men and women do typically
experience heartbreak differently. Men are more likely to get active
in some way, while women are more likely to reach
out to their support group. Because in a lot of societies,
women are allowed to be more open when it comes
to emotions, women may actually move on from breakups more
(30:25):
quickly than men, and this is one of the many
ways society influences how we grieve. Right, But this made
me think about what happens when you don't want to
be in relationship, and this comes up in my therapy
not infrequently, right, because it does make me feel sometimes
(30:46):
like I have no self worth since people are always
sort of like where you're incomplete, you're missing something. I
feel like society sees me generally as a waste. It's
made me do things I haven't wanted to do and
try to fit in I don't want to fit into.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Yeah, I think I was the same way. I felt
abnormal because I didn't get into too many relationships either,
as in, do I have a mental block as to
why I'm not looking as hard as others or why
I don't feel like I need to.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
I never actually dated in high school, and I actually
didn't date in college either.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
I think I went on the total of three dates,
and I didn't have any relationships within I think we
had like bitterly kiddish relationships, you know, he's my boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
We oriens, you know, in high school or whatever, but
never actually dated.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
And it wasn't until my mid twenties that I actually
started to look. And a lot of that had to
do it being open and feeling like I could be vulnerable,
and because of some of the trauma that I had experienced,
it was not possible for me. Of course, I think
I yearned to be wanted. That is something that's always
been at the forefront of my thoughts. But that's generally
(31:55):
in everything, whether it's my job, whether it's friendships that
someone wants me there essentially and my desirability and my
fear of rejection stop me.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Now.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
I'm very comfortable and being single. I think I said
that recently, Like that is something that I know, and
it is easy and I'm cool with it. So to
get into a relationship is like, do I really want
to compromise here? This is really worth my time. A
study from twenty eighteen out of the Journal of Experimental
Psychology examine the effectiveness of three coping strategies, thinking bad
thoughts about your ex, accepting your love for your ex,
(32:30):
or distracting yourself with things that have nothing to do
with your ex, which I like that option.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
They found that.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
All three help in some way, but a mix of
these methods provided the most relief. So maybe listening one
thing you don't like about person, one thing you love,
and then one thing that has nothing to do with them.
I think we should practice that more often. The study
authors propose that removing feelings of love attached with an
ex is the primary way to move on.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
They call this.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
Love regulation, which I love, I love regulation the term,
and they also, as always, recommend not making life changing
decisions during a life changing time.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, no, don't. It's so tempting because you're like,
this will takes everything.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Yeah, there are moments where I'm like, okay, I'm moving
out of the country.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
It's time to go to Antarctica. Finally for me. Another
study found that it takes about three months to get
it over a break up. Oh, I have taken so
much longer.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
I can do a year.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yeah, that's the year. I mean, it.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Depends on how long you've been with someone. Obviously, I'm
sure that's like an average.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
Like you'll always remember that, but still I give you
a full year before I'm like, okay, because that year
includes you and you shouldn't. But you probably dating around,
maybe miscommunicating with people, breaking a few people's hearts, not
necessarily in that way, like doing noncommittal things with the
(34:00):
hook ups as such.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
But I'm like, i'll give you that. I'll give you that.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
I'll let you know you're being a dumbass, but i'll
give you that. I'm not gonna be mad at you
for it.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Ah. Yes.
Speaker 4 (34:11):
Then, of course, there are the comparisons between men and
women in our media when it comes to breakups, how
women are so sad without a man in their life
and how men can finally live it up, be free,
have hookups.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Yeah, I always thinking of them.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
And I know we did an episode on this forever ago,
but the coverage of Jennifer Aniston like she's the saddest
person that's ever existed.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
Yeah, you're right, And it was always like, well, it
kind of did start off with a bread put thing. Yeah,
that whole he left you for Angelina Jolee, who was
the ultimate sex symbol because you're the girl next door.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Right, Yeah, and just like you know, she would date
somebody and then it would end and she's broken hearted
by the person she was dating. It's like finally able
to date all over again. And like, Okay, whatever I
think jenniferanis, it's just okay.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
But I mean, if you really think on it too,
in that level, Brad Pitt to me, was even sadder
because he would have you ever seen the pictures of
him in different relationships with different couples, how he mimicked
that style of.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
The girl.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
One of one of those so you're like, and so
to me, he.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Was always sadder because he's like he has to have
a relationship in order to find his identity. So yeah,
you need to go love that. It's hilarious. So you
see him with Quinn Talt and you're like what. And
then you see him with Angela and Joey and Brad
Pitt and you're like a Brad Pitt Angeline Joey and
then Jennifer anis or vices Edston.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
But he looks very different and very much like that person.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Who interested in these pictures. There is a Parks and
Rec episode about that.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Yes, I know you've never seen Star Wars and this
is not the one I would recommend. But in episode two,
Attack of the Clones, uh padme a ka, Nalie Portman
has the infamous line.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Anakin, you're breaking by heart. That's the first thing I
thought of.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
I love the enthusiasm in that line.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Oh you gotta do it.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Delivered it amazing.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
And I mean, if you pick just randomly three pieces
of media, I bet one of them has to do
with a broken heart.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
And I in a way, I believe we romanticize heartbreak
in a lot of ways in our in our media.
When I was.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Younger, I wanted to have a love that was so
powerful that the heartbreak would hurt as much as I
was seeing on TV or in movies, so I like,
I had on my binder a poem that the w
H autumn poem Funeral Blues.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
I was really into the beauty in Greece.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
It's also very emao what we all, well, you and
I were, And then I kind of I was thinking
about a bit more and I maybe we what we
romanticize is self destruction, or maybe it's a nation of
two things. Of this love that we always see and
then the self destructive.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
We love broken things though.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
That's kind of why we like shows that have broken
people in it. So you think of my so called life,
it's all about broken people like you just love that
and you want to fix.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Jared leto real hard, real hard, and.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
The people who seem to get it together, keep it
together and be happy were the antagonists or the bad
guys and the suture essentially, so the nerd it was
kind of like solid, like he was too smart and
got it together. And then the girl who had the
family and was a cheerleader was also not the great one.
When you had all these other things that were happening
that are more interesting, whether it was a drug overdo
(37:42):
so or whether it's you know, and it's definitely and
I say broken people, but.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
It's outcasts as well.
Speaker 4 (37:48):
And that's that level of we're very interested and we
feel that and we feel oh good, we're not alone hurting.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
That's true.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Oh and speaking of do you have a favorite heartbreak
breakups song, Samantha.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
So, I have a few.
Speaker 4 (38:01):
So I had several Elliott Smith songs. Of course, yeah,
I wanted to go down that road death Cab. I
definitely had a few of those songs up to me.
I think they had one of the best I Hate
my Father songs. Oh and it's somewhat upbeat and you're like, oh,
like one of the and then one of the lyrics
talking about how his mot father died and the priest
(38:24):
is talking all these great things about him. He's like,
you're a bastard in life, you saw You're a bastard,
and death like it's a great line. And then I'll
like them trying to send his ashes out and it
falls back into his eyes.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
He's like, yep, that's right. Thinks that like that level.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
Okay, of course I'm at living things, but even some
old school drake okay got into my playlist at one point,
and of course the Jimmy world. There are several several
songs that I would just angrily sing and then then
a few like that I would try too, had several
That was one of my first concerts.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
What about you?
Speaker 3 (38:59):
I think I I have a ton of sad, sad songs,
but I don't really have too many that I would
go to after a breakup. But I have songs that
if I listen to them, I will cry because the
music is really moving in that way.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
Yeah, music is powerful and I think that's why people
connect so hard with sad songs.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Yeah, if anyone wants my playlist, I have a playlist
called Grief and I will share it if anyone wants it.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
But they'll make you cry.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
Yeah, And you know what, if you don't want that,
we have some advice on how to like not cry,
not necessarily.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Maybe that's not true. We have some advice for you.
But first we have a quick break sponsors and we're back,
(40:05):
thank you sponsoring. So we do have some advice.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Even though a lot of you have probably heard this,
We've all probably heard a lot of the basic ones.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Right and find a hobby is a big one.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
You've sort of talked about that, exercising, eating well, sleeping
as best you can, talking out with friends, reading a book, volunteering,
taking tiny steps to make yourself feel normal again.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
And this is a big one.
Speaker 4 (40:29):
Yeah, A lot of experts recommend on following your ex
on social media and removing reminders of them from your life.
Stop all contact if possible.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
I'm gonna.
Speaker 4 (40:39):
I actually just looked up my excess stuff the other
day because I was in the conversation and we're talking
about past whatever.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Yeah, I was like, I wonder what he's doing.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
Not a good idea, No, no, Actually I was kind
of like, huh, surprise, interesting, interesting, And I think I'm
in a especially if you're in a really bad place
and then you talk paying your life to theirs.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Oh no, don't do that, don't do it. Yeah, I
still meet up with my ex regularly.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Thought to me.
Speaker 4 (41:08):
Yeah, to me, like my exes or my pasts, they
go into the land of nowhere, right, and to me,
I just disappear. They disappear. I never hear like, of course,
I'll just talk about stalking. But I would never ever
ever want to run into them. I never want to
see them. I'm like, they shouldn't exist. Okay, so coming
back to me, like you're friends with them. Yeah, it's
(41:29):
just the opposite, which is healthy, right. I'm yeah, I
never look at the Well, no, it's not that I
never do. I'm just not on social media that much
much anyway, so I just don't.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Run into that problem that often. But I do see
him in real life.
Speaker 4 (41:42):
I r L.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
And sometimes it does make me sad, like, you know,
we used to be so close, and yeah, it feels
sort of awkward.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
But you think about like you kind of lose friendships too.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
Yeah, sure, you know you got yours, they are gone,
you got to divide them.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Yeah, it's just just how life is.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
One big one is doing some introspection. Ask yourself what
it was that you liked about that person, and if
you can find those qualities and someone else. This is
easier to do a bit later in the grieving process.
But you know, you have those moments of hate that person.
(42:23):
I hate everything about them, But there was something, hopefully
that you were attracted to, and maybe that's an unhealthy thing, right,
Maybe it's a healthy thing, but maybe it's unhealthy. But
finding out what it was is always, you know, is
always a learning experience, right, right, you can, you can
move on and two bigger and better things, okay, and
(42:44):
then writing about it, making right about it, using it
to create.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Yeah, I write a lot more when I'm sad. I
will say that me too. Allow yourself to feel, be
honest with yourself.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
And if that's you need to cry a little bit,
or you have to sit and watch the same movies repeatedly,
that's fine. If you just want to sit in the
dart for a couple of days, that's okay too. But eventually, yes,
you do need to shake it off.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
That's when the Taylor swift comes out.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Yes, and always good to communicate with the support group
in your life, right what's going on, so that they
can help you and provide that support. And of course,
the unpopular but true time time heals most woods. It
makes things easier, hopefully hopefully eventually. On that positive note,
(43:33):
that's what we have to say about heartbreak today. But
I am really excited to share some listener mail that
we receive. Yes, Kate wrote, although the most wonderful time
of the year is over Halloween, as a fellow horror fan,
I thought I would send you some recommendations just in
case you need more. Always send recommendations. Yes, one cut
(43:56):
of the Dead. It is on shutter UK, not sure
if it is on the US version. It is a
zombie comedy.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
The first half hour maybe a little confusing, but stick
with it. It is great to watch with a crowd.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
Also, if you like zombie movies and haven't already seen it,
Trained Busan is great.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
One of my favorites.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Yeah, that's a good one. I sobbed at the end.
Terrified again and on shutter UK. A Spanish language movie
that I found unsettling, to say the least.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Knives and Skin.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
I saw this at FrightFest this year, UK horror film festival.
Isn't strictly horror, but has twin peak vibes and has
been described as a feminist noir. Ooh yeah, I really
loved it. Looks like it's not available until December. I
know you like the superhero genre. In case you also
like manga, I highly recommend the TV series Attack on Titan,
a horror fantasy show. I often think about whether the
(44:44):
horror genre is a feminist genre. Women are always telling
men there's something out there, there's something wrong, and the
men are consistently gaslighting them, ignoring their concerns before too long,
everyone's dead apart from one final girl.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Maybe the true horror is the patriarchy.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Horror movies would be over five minutes if people listen
to Women.
Speaker 4 (45:05):
I love Yeah, you start thinking about all of the
things that could have been solved, you know why, and
then you have to be oh, because the movie would
not be a movie, right.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
We would have no horror movies. What I find interesting
is that it is mostly men making horror movies, but
yet they don't seem to learn from what I think
is the key message of the movie. Listen to Women.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
There are some good podcasts on horror if you are interested.
Just suggesting a couple She Kills, which explores horror through
a female lens, and the Evolution of Horror, which explores
all the different horror genres and how they developed as
you grew up with the screen franchise. You might be
interested in this eight minute documentary called Copycat, which suggests
it may not be as original as everyone thinks.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Oh, I love all of this. I love the suggestions.
Please keep those coming.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
And another listener wrote in with some different suggestions. Kim
wrote after listening to feminist movie Friday, Alien Edition I
am mailing in. I'm a thirty four year old woman
who enjoys lots and lots of horrory feminist horror movie plotlines.
To think about Last House on the Left. This is
so graphic, trigger warning for rape, etc. Parents Getting Revenge, Texas,
(46:09):
Chainsaw Massacre, Final Girl survives because she doesn't do stupid stuff.
Midsummer Hereditary, The Descent, Everything, The Witch, Female Liberation lived deliciously.
I spin on your Grave, Revenge graphic, questionable, Halloween. Sorry,
Laurie does everything to survive and kill her nutty brother,
which makes her badass.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Who cares if she's a virgin.
Speaker 3 (46:31):
Jennifer's body for that matter, anything Diabo Cody Ever wrote
for Film Night of the comment Zombie fighting Valley Girls,
It's can't be but great The Craft Marianne, which is
new on Netflix. Also, you mentioned Ripley being the start
of strong female characters like Buffy, but I couldn't help
but think of Linda Hamilton as Sarah Conner. She was
one of the baddest of the badasses post Alien. Thanks
(46:54):
for covering anything horror. I feel like we ladies don't
get fair representation. Will weigh in on reviews or being
part of this community. You're welcome and I will happily
do so always. Kim later followed up with more suggestions
after Our Monster, our Female Monster episode Misery Gaffy Baits
obviously the audition certainly Harbor. Perhaps also just considered Asian
(47:16):
extreme high tension, which is French hand that rocks the cradle,
single white female swim fan, the crush, that's big genre,
evil dead. All the women are possessed by demons and
made to do evil, gross things. This was a choice
by Rami sam Ramie Sharp Objects. Also the short from
Tales from the Dark Side movie. Also this movie sucked,
(47:39):
but it's worth mentioning Knock Knock the neon demon Starry Eyes,
a woman moves to La trying to get her big break.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
She was willing to do anything.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
She spirals and kills all of her terrible roommates and
then turns into an alien after totally rotting.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
And falling apart.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
I can't remember this title helped me, lol, I have
seen that movie.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
I'll get back to you about that.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
What I remember what it is Eyes Without a Face,
which is a black and white French monster movie. I
can see this influenced later in other horror movies. So
if you wanted some suggestions for horror, these listeners got
you got right.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Ill I've only seen like two of those the bottom list.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
I've seen those. I've seen a lot of them.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
Yeah, yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
Well you've got some fun homework today.
Speaker 4 (48:26):
And you and I because she mentioned and they both
mentioned a lot about like mothers, you know, and I
talked about that previously. We did some shout outs to
different podcasts that we want.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
To highlight because they're amazing and led by women or females.
Speaker 4 (48:41):
The Scam Wow, which is super fun Sue and Sue
and Katie talk about different scams, including and I didn't
listen to the one the wedding industry and poop Tea,
and I was like, oh, I like that. And then
there's also to go with our heartbreak. This is why
I'm single with Amy and Amy and sometimes Chuck. They
(49:01):
talk about the good, the bad, and the worst relationships
all the way from divorces even to boobs.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
You know, I love anything that talks about any of
those things.
Speaker 3 (49:12):
Well, there you go, listeners, and if you have any
suggestions for things we should shout out horror movies we
should be watching our next feminist movie Friday. I know
there's been some talk of the craft. Please right in.
You can do so at our email address, which is
Stuff Media, Momstuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can also
find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on
(49:32):
Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks, as always
to a super producer, Andrew Howard, you and thanks to
you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You the protection
of iHeartRadio's house Stuff works. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
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