January 20, 2024 • 52 mins
While friendships can be beautiful and powerful, unhealthy friendships can be draining and detrimental. In this classic episode, Anney and Samantha discuss toxic friendships, abusive friendships, friendship fades and when and how to end a friendship.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm welcome to.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Step On Never Told your production of iHeartRadio. Yes, we
are back with another classic. We are moving towards the
end of January, I believe as this comes out January
twenty twenty four, and we've been bringing back a lot
(00:27):
of classics around resolutions or just maybe things you might
want to change in the new year. And one of
them that came to mind for me, not that I
have anything going on around this, but was how to
break up with the friends?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Oh yeah, yeah, because I think a.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Lot of times towards the end of the year, you
take stock of that in the beginning of the year
and what relationships are good for you and healthy for you.
And sometimes that can mean I'm making the decision to
either cut back on your hanging out with someone or
to cut it off completely, and that can be a
really hard, hard thing. But I do around this time,
(01:03):
I think I've heard friends of mine talking about it
and really wrestling with well, I don't know, maybe I
don't maybe we're not actually friends, Like maybe this isn't
a friendship at all. So for anyone who is dealing
with that, wrestling with that, please enjoy this classic episode. Hey,
(01:29):
this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steph. I've
never told your production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Oh Annie, I have a question for you. Okay, can
you tell me a time in your childhood you had
a friendship ending moment?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
So the one that comes immediately to mind actually wasn't
a friendship ending moment for me, but one of my
best friends who's been on the show. Now, Katie, and
I have two best friends Katie, so that's very confusing.
But recently. Katie we grew up together. We were neighbors
and I loved hanging out with her.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
She was friends with another Katie, my goodness.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Katie Jones, who was like a cool kid, and I
was very much not a cool kid at this point.
This was like third grade. I was cool up until
third grade, but then things changed. But they were both
at my house because Katie had come to visit my
friend Katie, and my friend Katie wanted to come hang
out with me. And I'm sorry this is so confusing,
(02:36):
but we were playing like that game of hop scotch
where you it's like a snail. I don't know if
anybody remembers that, but we loved playing it, and Katie
Jones reached her boiling point and said to my friend Katie, like,
I don't like this girl, Annie. You choose right here now,
which one of us is it gonna because I will
(02:57):
walk out of here right now, won't be friends anymore.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
And I was kind of shocked because I didn't know
where this code.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Had come from.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
But my friend Katie, she just continued to play the
game in silence, didn't say anything, and Katie Jones walked
away by herself.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
And history was made.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, yeah, okay, it was pretty dramatic.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
That is dramatic. I've never had a full fledged declaration. Yeah,
in giving you an ultimatum, wow, especially middle school.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
That it was elementary school.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
And uh yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
They were not friends again after that, and things were
always awkward between me and Katie Jones. And we both
played clarinet and band. It was a little tense.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I love it. You gotta love to have competition, That's
what that is, right.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
I was second chair, she was third.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Oh nice, when you would I did?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
I did?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
No, Yeah, I think I've had I had a few incidents.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
I know I had one friend who was so bossy
that I Finally, I remember being on a swing set.
I just looked at her and yelled at her, stopped
telling me what to do, and walked off, and we
were never friends after that. It was weird because it
was more of like she was trying to get me
to talk.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
To a boy and I didn't like that.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
Yeah, and that was kind of the end of the
friendship because I was like, I don't want to talk
to even though I'm pretty sure I would say annoying
one as a kid, But that's the one I can
remember more so than anything else.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
And a lot of my friendships.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Didn't end because anything bad, but a lot of them
ended because they moved away or circumstances happened where we.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Changed an interest. But it was never like, oh, we
can't be friends that you think of.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
I did have my other next door neighbor, Jordan.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
She was a bit younger than me, and I kind
of resented her after a while because it was those
situation where we always carpolled together.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
We did our mom's were friends.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
And so it was just like convenience, and she spent
so much time at my house and we babysit her family,
and I really didn't like her brothers. I felt like
they were mean to my brother and they took advantage
of all of our stuff, Like we would be not
at home and we would come home and they were
like using all of our stuff and it bothered me. Yeah,
but I was I think looking back, I was kind
(05:21):
of controlling, but she was also kind of mean.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
See, and I overheard her.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Talking about me on several occasions, and eventually I was like,
I don't think we're friends anymore. You know.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I had that too.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
I had a friend that I was friends with her
for three or four years, but it was definitely one
of those friendships that I was.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Her psychic, if you know what I mean. Like she
would do.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
All these things so I would have to hang out
with her to so she could hang out with this boy.
I would have to do this with her that she
would love. I didn't want to do, but I'm like, okay,
I'm here. And I remember her trying to get validation
and want to flirt with boys and that was fine.
That was just not something I want to do. And
I was very scared of boys at this point in time.
And I remember her making fun of me for that,
(06:04):
and I was like, look, just because you like being
with all the guys doesn't mean I want to. She
took that as me calling her a slut and told
her friends that I called her a slut, and so
like they completely heard that, and then I was judgmental
and I could hear them talking about me, and they
would gang up on me on the bus said by myself.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Oh, I was one of those stories.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
We kept kind of in touch for the most part,
but we definitely because we were also different grades and
all of that, so that changed.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
She got a car, I didn't get a car. I
had to work. She didn't have to work, so it
was all nice for her. But yeah, it was really
weird friendship.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
I remember trying to figure out how like a man,
I was like, this is a bad teenage.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Movie, right right.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
But yes, we've discussed.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
I'm sure everybody's wondering while we're talking about this, and
we've discussed before the power of female friendship and the
power of platonic female connection, and honestly, it's something that's
been a comfort and a lot of big, big help.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
In this last year.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Friendship is, by the way, defined by Mariam Webster as
the state of being friends or the quality or state
of being friendly, which I feel like that's not strong.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Enough of definition to me because I'm like friendship is
so powerful.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Maybe that's right.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
It's almost like the acquaintance. Yes, I feel like there's
a bunch of levels of friends. You know, you've got
your inner circle friends, and then you've got kind of
your acquaintance friends, right, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah, you do.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
That's like the best friend title. Who's the best friend?
Who's your crew?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Definitely a lot of title to that. And if you've
been a.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
Listener of the show, I think you probably already know.
We are all about women supporting women, and about how
important it is to maintain friendships with other women. As
in fact, I've always been one of those who go
by the Leslie Nope motto of uterresses before duterises.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I mean that for anyone with a uterus.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
And of course, one of my I think one of
my better qualities I don't know, is that I am
ridiculously loyal and I'm definitely one of those that you
just can't mess with my people. If you do, I'm
coming to get you real hard.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I would agree. I think you're very loyal. I think
you're a wonderful friend.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
I one of.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
The most fortunate areas I think in my life is
that I had really good and strong friendships with other
girls and women pretty much my entire life. And some
of those, you know, did fade away or turned out
to not work out for whatever reason. But I had
a core group of friends from high school and I'm
(08:51):
still really good friends with and we still see each other.
And then I have people from college, and then i
have people from work and like outside circles, and I
just think it's so whenever I'm thinking of.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Difficult situations and how do you get through.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
It or what do you enjoy in life, it's almost
always like, oh, I have the support of my friends.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
I have the support of this group of friends.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
They're there for me, and they bring so much joy
and all so much support as well. And I know
people in my life who I'm close to who don't
have that, who don't have a strong support group of friends,
and I've just seen how lucky I am to have it,
(09:33):
like how difficult it can be without it.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
So I am very much with you, Samantha.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
I'm a huge proponent of friendships and especially among women,
And though we could continue to yes, sing the praises
of female friendship. We aren't talking about that necessarily today.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
No, today we wanted to.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Take a look at the end of friendships and specifically
what happens when women stop being friends with other women.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
And we need to go ahead and let you know.
I know that many of the.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Articles about that are heavily weighed down with a lot
of misogynistic language, a lot of stereotypical ideas of female
friends i e. Caddy, backstabbing, drama queen, and characteristics like that.
So though we may mention it, please take that with
a grain of salt.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Right, So, there are several reasons why a friendship will end.
We talked a little bit about it before in our
own personal experiences, and I'm sure we've all dealt with
it for some reason, but we wanted to look at
why and even when maybe we should go ahead and
just let it end.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yes, And one of those things.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
I've never heard of this before, but when I heard
the term, I was immediately like, oh, yeah, I know
what this is, and that's friendship fade. Yeah. So there
have been different reasons in ways to end a friendship,
and one of them is this one, which has been
more of a thing since the pandemic and lockdowns. I've
definitely heard people talk about it, like, you know who
your real friends are are, like the sticking friends I
(10:57):
feel like for me though, my experience has been there
so that I have faded, but I'm confident they're going
to come back right. Like we're just not hanging out
that much right now, and there's a lot of stress.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
But I feel like if that eases.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
We will hang out right And then just because it
happens doesn't mean it happens because it's something bad or
because you mean like you're being mean about it. It's
not always intended as negative.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I don't like you thing.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Right exactly, But okay, what exactly is friendship fade? According
to a Woman's Health article, friendship faid is the quote
feeling that your formally tight connections are disappearing at down
a pit of silence, just not gloomy at all. Of
silence sounds like a Dungeons and Dragon spell.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
There you go, I silence.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
But this is a bit different from the friendly fade,
which the Urban Dictionary defines as quote a passive aggressive
method to break up with a friend without being hurtful
or ghosting a friendship and we will come back to.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
That, right.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
So, not surprisingly, the pandemic has opened up the possibility
of this happening, and there could be so many reasons
outside of just being overwhelmed and panicked about the state
of the world, and for me specifically, one of the
reasons of the faith is due to the fact like
there's nothing new or really meaningful that's happening right now.
(12:20):
So I feel like when people ask me how are you,
I really have nothing to say other than eh, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
You know, yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
My daily routine has come to the point that it
has become monotonous. Wake up, take out the dog, work, eat,
watch the same shows over and over again, and go
to bed again.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
When someone asks what I've been doing? Is there anything
new going on with you? Literally, I'm like no.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
My mom is the same, which is funny because as
the child, I feel like I'm the one always kind
of I don't do this anymore, but when I was younger,
I would dodge phone calls and stuff, and now I
get the feelings she's dodging by. And she told me
she's like, well, you know, I'm just not doing much.
I don't have much to talk about right, Yeah, that
makes sense, nor do I. And that's definitely something I've noticed,
(13:11):
especially in conversations with her, because it used to be
kind of I would come in and I'd be like.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Here's the fifteen thousand new things.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
That have happened, and now it's sort of like, oh,
my shashido plant has red shasheetos on it. Now she
is exciting by the way, and especially in regards to
lockdowns and rules, people have been divided on how to
the letter, people may be following those rules and for
some that changed the way.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
You vowed that friendship.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Yes, I mean sure, yes, I think we even had
so we just finally are getting to the point of
going out. We hung out with your co host from Saber, Lauren,
and she was talking about, you know, what she did
during the pandemic, and she made stay but of course
I think you and Annie had a little more stricter
lockdown follows and and we were like, yeah, and apparently
(14:01):
people have been going out and I'm like, oh, oh wow,
I didn't know that. And definitely when making plans it
was me, you my partner, that was it. And if
I wanted to make plans with someone, we made sure
that we had a two week quarantine check up. If
we need to make sure that the other person had
tested and let each other know what's going on, and
then we wouldn't hang out. Apparently not everyone's doing that,
(14:23):
and I think we had. Did we have a conversation, Yeah,
we had a conversation about the fact that we wanted
to invite certain people, but we were thinking, I don't
know if they're actually following the quarantine rules.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Yeah, it's been really tough for me and I imagine
for a lot of people because it's not a shocking
thing to hear, Like I'm not I knew people were
doing that, but so I do get hurt by it
and I get a little mad about it. And honestly,
after we learned that when we were hanging out that time,
I went home and got really upset. Oh no, and
it's I had to think about why it was upsetting
(14:56):
me so much, and there's obviously something else going on there.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
But it is.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
It's an issue, and it's an issue where it's hard
not to have some sort of emotion one way or
the other where there's there's particularly in my case, I'm
thinking of one guy.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Who I know when I meet when we hang out.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
It's going to become a point where he's going to
be like, I don't get why you were taking it
so seriously, and it's going to be hard for me
not to fight with this guy.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I could see that.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
I mean definitely for me, a part of that whole,
like people getting together, was I felt left out. And
this is a fear of mine of being left out
and unwanted. And even though it absolutely was my role
and my choice, but hearing about the after fact, because
they knew where I stood.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
And so therefore, of course I'm not gonna invite you
wouldn't have come.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Very true, very true.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yes, I'm still hard by it. I'm still hard by it.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
No, isn't that the kicker though? Where Yes, it's like.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
You know that you would have said no, but you
want to be asked anywhere exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
I've said that to a group of friends previously.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
I was like, I know I'm not coming, and i
know I'm having a hard time responding to things, but
please don't leave me out.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah. No, I'm absolutely the same.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
I think I'm glad I didn't know about this because
I would have been made Oh yeah, but in general,
I do like sometimes I just say yes because I'm
afraid they'll stop asking me to go out, right, But yeah,
that's definitely been the new waters to navigate when it
comes to friendships and ideas around quarantining and this whole pandemic,
(16:41):
because it's also it goes back to almost that awkward
the joke of the awkward conversations you have with people
now where it's like, oh, what vaccine did you get? Oh? Right, right,
So it's kind of inevitably going to come up probably,
so it's just hard to avoid and it is people
have emotions and thoughts about.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
It, they do, mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
And then there's also for women who have children and families,
perhaps just finding the time or energy to keep up
a friendship was too much.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Can totally see that.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Right, sounds exhausting, oh for sure, for sure, and many
have suffered loss or tragedy, and that type of experience
can completely flip a person's desire to socialize or even
feel like they can reach out to someone. And yeah,
that's that's another thing that I struggle with in friendships,
is being if I feel like I have something sad
(17:36):
or I guess just not even fun to talk about.
I don't feel like I can talk about it because
I feel like they're going to be like, oh, this
is awkward, and I don't want to be here right now.
I don't want to be talking about this right But
that's what friendship is, as you're being open with people
and all of that, but especially when you think someone
(17:56):
else is struggling too, you don't want to add to
their struggles.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
It has been a time of struggling.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
And which we're going to talk about in the bit.
But yeah, I feel the same way, especially when I
had my previous jobs.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
They were Debbie Downer jobs. To say the least.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
I came in as d Debbie Downer of the group
because if they asked me how my day went, Oh,
you don't want to ask me how my day went.
You know, tragedies and the sadness that happened in my field,
the many losses that I had over the winds, and
even my wins were sad. I remember I was trying
to explain to friends about something that was good, but
(18:30):
in what that sounded like. But it's still a child
that didn't have a parent and was going through loss.
How is this good type of situation? And being told
to stop talking. That's so like it. I actually was
shut down saying, really, you're going to talk about this now,
And I'm like, someone.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Just asked me how my day went, and this is
how my day went, and it.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Was a victory for me, even though to you it
sounds really sad because you don't want to talk about
children with loss, and I'm like, sorry, but yeah, that
taught me real quick. Oh, I can't talk to you,
I can't be with you, I can't let you know
what's going on because you don't want sad things.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
And unfortunately, with my job, that's the majority of my stories.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Right, that was a very dramatical loo key out of
your face.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
I'm just saying, well, we do have some more we
want to discuss, but first we have a quick break
for a word from our sponsor, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Thank you. Sponsored.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
What do you do if you have allowed the fade
to occur? I'm very very guilty of this, but want
to snap back.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
It's time.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
It's time we come back, right, maybe, I think again,
we've all been there. We get busy, overwhelmed, or just
don't have the mental capacity to call someone or even text.
But that's not because we don't want to. That's not
because we're trying to stop a friendship or fade a friendship.
It just happens. Life happens, So what can we do
(20:11):
to change that?
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Well, first and foremost, be gentle with yourself and with
your friends. It might have been a few days or
weeks ever since you've heard from your people, But just
like us, they are going through the hardships of the
currency of the world. But what if they are going
through other things as well?
Speaker 1 (20:29):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
And I don't know how many times I've been depressed
or completely exhausted, and I'm thinking, why aren't people checking
up on me? Why can't they read my mind? I
know I need them to check it up on me.
But then to realize maybe they're feeling the exact same thing,
or maybe they're going through something even harder, like those
moments of feeling like you're being neglected, you're also neglecting others.
(20:49):
You never know what's happening.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
And just as simple.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Hello, And usually for me that's a gift of like, hey,
you know, I think my favorite one is the there's
a seal that runs up and does a wave. Okay, no, hello,
I love it, and that can change things that could
just be as simple I'm here, I'm check it up
without having to be too invasive, and it doesn't take
that much time because again, we never know to maybe
(21:14):
in the same place, and that miscommunication of who's going
to be the one that reaches out, yeah, causes.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
A kind of friction.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
I had a friend who we actually sat down and
talked about this because she was fundamentally misunderstanding and I
was fundamentally misunderstanding where both of us were coming from
because I was struggling with insecurity and I still do
where I don't want to be annoying or bother people, right,
(21:43):
So sometimes that means I won't reach out because I
don't want to bother people. But to her that was
reading as she's not reaching out, right, So there's that,
and then I do. I very vividly remember in college
having the realization of even people who look like they're
so put together in quotes and everything's fine, Yeah, you
(22:05):
don't know what they're dealing with.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
You really don't unless you check or ask, right.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
I used to have I don't necessarily think this was
a super healthy thing either, but I used to have
what I called the list of don't neglect, and I
would have people it was just this list.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
I'm like, check in on these people.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
And I would go through the list, you know, every
couple of days, just to make sure.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Keep in mind on that list.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Well, I don't do it anymore. This was in.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
This was like when I first graduated college, and I
mean it was such a like anything to do where
I took something that should be fun and it became
much more of like a to do list and a stress.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
So I stopped doing it.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
But smart, Yeah, but yeah, I have those people in mind,
and it doesn't have to be big, like you said,
it can just be you know, hey, I saw this
and thought of you. And if they don't respond, that's cool.
They'll respond when they can, hopefully. And yeah, it's a
(23:06):
simple a simple hello. It can work whether it's through
a text, a phone call, Marco Polo, whatever way you know,
whatever way you typically communicate with your friend, or sometimes
it's fun to mix it up. Just a simple connection
can really do wonders. And yeah, I remember, your friendship
is the ability to just be yourself with someone.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Right.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
One thing my friends and I would always laugh about
because I don't know there's an inside joke about just
the fact that I'm always sleepy.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I'm always sleepy, I just am. And you know this,
that we can.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
Just be around each other and take a nap, and
that's true friendship. Like we would say, two friends nap together,
and I thought it was hilarious. But the overall ability
is that we can just be there without having to
entertain one another. And that was okay, that's fine. We
can do our own thing, but just be in each
other's space.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
That's nice.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Yeah. I had my other friend Katie.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
We had a standing nap time on Fridays at three pm.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
We would take naps together.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
And guy, look, when you get to the point where
you're super busy but you're trying to neglect your friendship,
you come together and you realize, oh my gosh, I'm
so tired, and the other person's like, yeah, me too.
I'm like, you know what, let's just close their eyes.
There's fifteen minute breaks, how about. Yeah, there's something delightful
to that.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
It is because you're trusting someone with your kind of
like vulnerable, sleepy, not real interesting self at the moment.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah, and I love and you're you're one of these transmitted.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
But I love when you have a friendship where you
can kind of do your own thing. Like somebody will
be working on like one friend she sketches a lot
when we hang out while I'm like working on Dungeons
and No Dragons or fan fiction.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
And we're together and we'll occasionally talk to each other.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
It could be really short and easy going, but it's
not like we're doing something very exciting. It's kind of
separate but together. But there is, yeah, that camaraderie.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
There there is. I think there's something nice to that.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
Yes, And then also you can be thoughtful and romantic
with your friends and and you're really great at this.
And when I say that, giving small gifts or large
ones sometimes for no reason just to say I'm thinking
about you. I saw this and thought about you is
really really nice.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yeah, and thank you for saying that you are too.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
I do. It sounds really cheesy, but I get these
moments of just like such pure warm love for friends,
or like I've got to do something for this person, right,
and it just gets in my head and I'll do
I'll send like a silly video or y'all, I'll get
a gift. But I just get like overwhelmed with love
(25:42):
for someone and I want to do something. And there
have been so many different occasions when someone has just
needed to talk or feel loved, and giving small tokens
or small gifts is such an amazing thing to do
to show that thoughtfulness goes a long way. And I mean,
it's wonderful to get gifts when you but it's also
lovely to get something when you're not. It doesn't have
(26:03):
to be even a gift, like like I said, I
used to do. I used to do a lot of
funny videos or something.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Right, Yes, you definitely did one for me. I did,
and you know what, because of we were using the
word romantic. This is also one of those that are
usually typically done by women. You don't see many male
friends giving each other things.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
I know. That was a whole shtick and New Girl.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
In which Schmidt gives his friend Nick a cookie and
he just and Nick is very suspicious.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
He's like, why why are you giving me this cookie?
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Why?
Speaker 4 (26:33):
It was a whole episode based on the fact that
their thoughtfulness and he's like, men don't give each other gifts.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Men don't do these things.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
And it's typically correct that I've only seen men give
the romantic partners a gift, but to give to each
other it seems so unugal, right, that makes me said
that they're messing out.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Yeah, it can be such a lovely, lovely thing.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yeah it is.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
But maybe you're good without that particular friendship anymore.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Yeah, then that's okay. That's okay too.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Maybe that friendship wasn't what you really needed, or maybe
it's no longer what you need, or some of those
differences that we talked about are too big and it
causes conflict and it maybe it's not a balanced friendship
to begin with.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
So let's talk about that.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yes, okay, So when is a friendship unhealthy? We wanted
to look into when a friendship is not an actual friendship.
So yes, let's start with toxic friendships. Toxic friendship is
something that causes a negative impact on your life. They
never give support or compassion in your life. They are
typically draining, unrewarding, stifling, unsatisfying, and unequal and again from
(27:46):
Urban Dictionary, these so called friends often backstab, gossip, lie,
act selfish, use, belittle, and even manipulate, and are taking
more than giving back to the friendship. Sadness and resentment
is felt towards the toxic friends. Breaking away from these
toxic friends is a must. And you probably all heard
terms like emotional vampire or energy vampire as well, which
(28:07):
doesn't necessarily have to be a friend, but often goes
into this whole thing.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Right, So we did want to talk about some of
the warning signs, and they're a lot more out there.
There are a lot more articles that you can look
at that give you specific maybe actions that are taking place.
But we just to do a few of those warning signs,
and one of them.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Is that they always put you down.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
So of course I'm not necessarily talking about every once
in a while just a friendly jab where you tease
each other and move on.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Which I think I've done to you.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
Yes, But if it's something that's not only causes you
to feel bad about yourself, or something that causes your embarrassment,
maybe you should rethink this friendship and.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
What it's about.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
An example that I think of on the top of
my head is the Mean Girls movie where poor Gretchen
just constantly gets yelled at by Regina and put down
constantly about being told that her ideas are and everything
she's doing is not as good as her that would
be one of those put down not good friendships right.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Another sign is crossing boundaries. Do they make you uncomfortable?
Do they keep pushing you to do things you don't
want to do, or they don't listen when you let
them know you don't like something or don't want to
be a part of something.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
That is a sign. Another one is takers.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Those friends who use you for what you have, constantly
coming to complain and need advice, but their chicken on
you are see how you are doing.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
Right, And then there's a non supporter. We all have dreams,
of course and goals and we definitely need help sometimes,
whether it's someone who would call just to see how
you're doing that day or how are you doing with things,
or those who just show up for you for moral support.
But if someone is not doing this but you're constantly
doing that for them, that's not someone you want to
be around. That's not someone who is a good friend,
someone who if you're trying to do something new me
(29:57):
I was trying to knit, you're very supportive and I
really appreciate that as where those non supportive would probably
go ahead and talk down on you and ask you
why you're doing it.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
And you're going to fail. Those are people you don't
want to be around.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Yes, Yes, And when you get older and you look
back on how behaviors you had when you were younger,
there were some like I've really been working on, where
I would.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Get jealous of friends.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
I would get jealous if I thought like they were,
you know, having a better life or whatever, being cooler,
And it was really hard for me to not like
say something kind of snarky to work about it, or
something kind of a put down. And that's been something
I've recognized and I've like actively tried to work on
as I've gotten older. And that's something to keep in
mind too, is to look for those things in yourself,
(30:44):
and especially if you have a friend who says something
about it, you should examine that thing, right.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
And I have an.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Instance of two friends in my life who were both
my best friends, and they had a huge fight in
college and they have not made up.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
One of them wants to and the other one doesn't.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
But it's also complicated because they're both my friends, and
I've heard both of their sides of it, and I
get both of their sides of it, and you know,
you can't force someone if they're not ready to be
your friend again, then that's that's that.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Yeah, it sucks, but yeah, would I would just also
keep in mind your own behaviors and friendships as well, exactly.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
M hmm.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
There's also something called co rumination. Co Rumination is defined
as quote extensive and frequent discussion, speculation, and focus on
negative feelings related to personal problems with close friends or friends.
That's from the National Institute of Health. It usually involves
the constant discussion and rehashing of the same problems and
often includes focusing on quote causes, implications, and negative feelings
(31:48):
around that problem. So think of when you were going
through a bad breakup and you went to your closest
friends to talk about all the whise what went wrongs
and how things could have changed.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
So, yeah, this is actually we need to watch this.
I'm thinking about a Sex in the City episode where
specifically Carrie cannot stop talking about Big at that point
they'd broken up for the second time, and she goes
on and on and on and on to the point
that her three friends intervene and say, Okay, this is
a big, big intervention because you know he was called
(32:21):
Big because we cannot deal with this, that we cannot
keep talking about all the negatives you're bringing everyone down,
and not that we don't want to talk about it,
but we've given you the weak, long allowance of doing so,
and you keep repeating the same thing and it's becoming
really negative for you as well as for us. And
they were like, you need a therapist, and apparently they're like,
(32:43):
you know, we have the same.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Issues too, and we don't know what to do.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
This is why we have therapists, because we need someone
else to give us an unbiased opinion instead of yeah,
that dude's a dick, which that dude was a dick.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Anyway, just go to there.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
But yeah, So, of course talking with our friends and
really letting go when working through things isn't a bad thing,
as in fact, one of the things I cherish most
is being able to completely be honest about all my
hurts and insecurities and having friends comfort me or shake
me out of it, like I really need that reality check.
So co ruminating can be a function of bonding for
(33:19):
many friends and can in the long run benefit in
a higher relationship satisfaction. And this is according to a
study completed by the Oklahoma State University. Not only that,
but the quality of the relationship and social support are
also higher for those who co ruminate. So not all
bad thing. And apparently this is only typically seen in
friendships with women. So men don't co ruminate, according to
(33:42):
the statistic, with their male friends. It's not something that
they do. They don't sit and empathize with each other,
which we kind of talked about a little before, but
they specifically said.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
This is not a thing that happens with men.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Wow. Yeah, yeah. However, there is some bad.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
It's not all good because co ruminating is essentially sharing
and feeling each other's stress and anxiety, and it can
become a negative cycle and once you feed off each
other's stressors, causing a higher stress synchronicity that can also
trigger other mental health issues like depression. Psychologists Amanda Rose
found when women co ruminate, they were quote more susceptible
to emotional disorders. And with that, if your friendship is
(34:22):
based on shared pain or bad experiences, there's a danger
that you quote might start manufacturing that pain to keep
the relationship going, and doing so can lead to a
quote elevated risk of depression and anxiety. If these friendships
are dependent on only the bad and painful things in
the relationship, perhaps it's time to reflect on if that
(34:42):
relationship is healthy.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
And there are examples specifically through people who were talking
about they actually really thrived on when their friends were
going through bad things and were excited by that and
was wanting to be the go person. And you know,
the co ruminating part is a little too real for
me feel I felt other attacked reading this. I'm not
gonna lie because I want to be a go to
person for people.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
That's kind of the thing. I think that's part of.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
My whole caregiver mentality that I really want to be
there for you, and so knowing that you trust me
enough to come to me in these dark times, yeah,
feels so rewarding that it's like, yeah, it kind of
does feed into I know I'm needed, and therefore I'm
going to keep being needed by being this person.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
And maybe if you have these traumas then.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
This is good for me, right, but it is it's
really unhealthy when you take on too much. I remember
there was one point where two of my closest friends
were going through really really hard things and I was
crying and upset about it later on to the point
that I realized that I was in pain because they
were in such pain that I felt like I couldn't
be happy. Right, it was a weird thing, and they
weren't doing that on purpose. And please understand, these two
(35:51):
friends are the best friends that I've had, and I
could do the same with them, and I have done
the same with them, but because of what was happening
that it was so intense, because it just felt like
every body was falling apart, that I didn't have the
right to be okay.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Yeah, and whereas I like, on the other hand, I'm
someone who struggles with like everything has to be even,
and so I've already and this is such a terrible thing,
but I've already been like, here are the people who
were really there for me when my dad died, so
when their parents died, to really be there, which is awful,
(36:25):
Like I want to be there for them, but it's
just one of those things where it's like, already stressing
me out right, that happened.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Yet you're like, who do I owe?
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Yep, yep, And again, that's not what friendship is. That's
what it's about. You should try to be as like
equal as possible in giving and receiving. But it's not
like a book, right, It's not like a debt sheet
that you need to keep track of. I mean, you
should keep in mind if one person is doing a
lot more than the other, But in general it evens
out right.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
Right, you know, a true friendship you do for each
other without thinking about that because it's automatic. It's easy
from both them so for sure. And you know, I
never really knew the term co ruminating, so.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
It's like, oh, oh, that's what that is.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
Grow So there's something to think on, for sure. But
to go a little deeper than just co ruminating and
toxic friendships, we did want to talk a little bit
about abusive friendships, and it's not talked about often, but
it should be something that people are aware of and
should watch out for. As in fact, a couple of
articles we're talking about the fact that this is not
(37:30):
addressed because it's not technically seen as domestic violence, and
so therefore people don't recognize it as quickly and realize
how harmful it could be. But more often than not,
abusive friendships and toxic friendships get mixed up, so we
just kind of use those words interchangeably, and there is
a subtle difference within.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Abuse of friendships.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
You do again see the similar signs of toxic friendship,
but it continues on. As one article states, abusive friendships
often start on a positive note, but then the abuser
may use repetition compulsion, which is when an abused person
may unknowingly replay unresolved family dysfunctions in a new adult relationship,
and that abuser uses that so they know what you've
(38:11):
gone through and are able to use.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
That tactic against you, much like an abuser.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
Essentially, the person who is mistreated or abused may have
gone through a lot in their childhood and endured so
much in the childhood that it becomes a norm and
is familiar. So therefore they don't realize that that's what's
being extended into these friendships. And oftentimes you see you
don't realize the negativity that's falling on you, and you
feel like that's what you deserve or that's what friendship is.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
Yeah, there have definitely been some situations, never like this
to this extent, but there have been situations where I
looked back and I was like, Wow, that wasn't a
good friendship. But at the time, it seemed just normal, right,
It felt like it just almost like the frog in
the boiling pot where it slowly got worse and worse.
But you were thinking this as your friend, and it
would be a failure to cut off the friendship, right, have.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
To stay friends.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Abusers will play on your insecurities, but only after they
have quote seduced you into a trusting relationship, and they
are often excessively charming and attentive. Some other warning signs
include harassment, dishonesty, and manipulations. They are also likely to
be very argumentative and critical, and abusive friendships can cause
(39:21):
so many mental health and physical issues, such as depression, anxiety,
stomach problems, high blood pressure, and even PTSD.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
I think again, we did want to address this, and
of course this is still vague. It might not be
all about the physical abuse, which is what's so easily
noted as this is abuse, right, but this emotional manipulative
tactics that causes people to be triggered in so many
ways by what their actions are because they know they
can trigger you or guilt you, or manipulate you into
(39:52):
filling that you owe them something, that it becomes an
abusive relationship.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Right, And we do have a little bit more for
you listeners, but first we're going to pause for one
more work break for word from our sponsor, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Thank you sponsors.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
So not all friendships and because it's bad. So it's
not all about toxic friendships and or abusive friendships. But
you know, things happen, we grow, we change, and sometimes
that means friendships change too. And there are people I
think gone fondly, but perhaps because of distance, we're not
(40:40):
friends anymore. Maybe they started a family, and because I
don't have a family, it's harder for us to relate,
or it's harder to find time. Any of those things
could be reasons while we are no longer friends. And yeah,
just your interests and commonalities have shifted. And of course
there's also possibility that your difference in belief. Yeah, that
(41:01):
changes friendships. Perhaps it's politics. And for me, definitely my
friends from my hometown, I don't talk to them as much.
Some of us stopped talking altogether because of their reactions
to Black Lives Matter, and that made me go, no, that's.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
A deal breaker for me. If you can't see how
this is racist, sorry that it.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
Is what it is as well as the fact that
I was super religious growing up. I'm no longer religious,
and that changed a lot of friendships for me from
college and high school, which again super religious to not
and those people who are super religious still doesn't mesh
too well in the end.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Yeah. Yeah, And that is one of those things of.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Growing friendships and changing friendships because I too came from
a very small conservative town and sometimes because I was
liberal back then and most people are conservative and I'm
getting fights.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
It's like my seventh grade it is my friends about their rock.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
Wars, but I didn't have like too many like minded
friends that choose from But some of my friends who
didn't think that way then have changed when they got
out of the small town and things like that. So yeah,
for sure, And that's something I've always struggled with where
I'm just so determined. But we were such good friends.
(42:19):
We have to stay good friends. But sometimes, yeah, it's
just you change and they change and things.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Life changes.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Life changes.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
It does.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
That's not to say I do think you can make
things work if there's like an equal amount of interest
in time. But yeah, however, what if you want to
break up with a friend, how do you do that.
You can limit time. Sometimes ending of friendship is not necessary.
Maybe it's all about limiting the amount of time or
even specific situations, maybe only in group settings or maybe
(42:50):
one on one setting. Boundaries are always a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (42:55):
I definitely had a friend of mine who I didn't
get along with a person and the way they explain
their friendship, not that they had to explain their friendship,
but because I wasn't the only one who was like,
I can't be around this person. They are too much
of this, this and this, and I'm going to go off.
I think I've said that I have a short temper.
But they were like, yeah, they're one of those friends
(43:16):
that they're better one on one.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
They're really sweet and very attentive.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
They get around a group of people and they don't
know how to pull back and just our vibrant personality.
And I'm like, okay, okay, yeah you have that one
on one setting. I'm good, which is not nice, but whatever,
but yeah. Also, we talked a little bit before about
the fading, the ghosting. It's a slow walking away from
(43:41):
a relationship. And I'd say this metaphorically obviously, and it
may be the best solution possible, especially when we're talking
about abusive or toxic relationships where you feel like it's
just be combative trying to have a conversation with it.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
So whether it's you.
Speaker 4 (43:55):
Know, less texting right, a little more time, not seeing
them as much as you used to, or all together,
you know, not answering the call immediately kind of situation,
not confiding in them so much, that might be a
solution for you if you really feel like that's the
only solution. Then again, let's say it is a really
deep and personal relationship, but there's something that has happened
(44:17):
that you feel like this is not going to work.
A face to face conversation could work. Just be honest
and open and also be willing to admit yourself when
you haven't been the best friend as well, and so
that could be a solution. I will say I know
many of people as of late sending emails, and I've
actually had an email they weren't necessarily trying to break well,
(44:41):
it did sound like a breakup letter.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
It did sound like a breakup letter. Actually, it's happened
to me twice.
Speaker 4 (44:46):
Oh my gosh, should remember this, So it's happened to
me twice.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Man I must be a bad friend.
Speaker 4 (44:50):
The first time was because I was super religious and
pampas and over the top, and when they corrected me,
I was like, you're correct, I'm so sorry, and we
were fine After that.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
That opened up a whole other conversation.
Speaker 4 (45:01):
Another one was because they decided that because they were
married now that they wanted to start a family and
being around single friends wasn't good for them.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
They broke up with me.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
I know, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to laugh at
your Saturdays. I'm a bad friend.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
I just remembered why, and remembering those I'm like, wow.
And of course, to be fair, it wasn't a bad
thing to me.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
I was like, yeah, okay, area, Yeah, we were talking
about this recently, So I guess I have a combo.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
I have a combo example, because.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
I have an email fade out situation that just happened,
which this person was one of my best friends.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
We've known each other since we were four years old.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
We've traveled together, we went to college together, we were
roommates for a while, and she moved out.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
Of the country.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
She There are also issues around she really didn't like
other women, which didn't sit well with me because I
was like, what about me? Though, I don't feel about this,
and then yeah, yeah, there there's some issues, but I
wanted to keep the friendship going, and so we had
like an email thing that slowly dropped pretty much like
twice a year. We did go on two journeys abroad
(46:22):
during that time, but this was the first year. She
sent me an email last year and was like, oh
my gosh, pandemic, how are you going in the US.
So what's been going on with you? I'm so sorry
I haven't been in contact. I'm really bad about it.
I sent her this whole thing, and I was like,
this is what's going on with fee?
Speaker 1 (46:35):
How are you?
Speaker 3 (46:36):
Don't worry about, you know, being bad contact? I'm just
bad to hear from you. And I never heard from
her again. And this was her first birthday where I
didn't send the like happy birthday thing because I guess
we're done right.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
It's weird too, that situation is weird.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
I wonder if anyone else can relate to this, where
we would have a lot of discussions where she would
like say, this is my problems with you.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
And I.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
I'm someone who tries to be really self aware, especially
like as I've gotten older.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
It wasn't in high school.
Speaker 3 (47:05):
Or whatever, but like, as I've gotten older, sometimes she
would say things where I'm like, am I just being
really obtuse because that doesn't sound like how I've interpreted
these situations at all.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
It's just odd.
Speaker 4 (47:19):
Yeah, if someone is so quick and constantly trying to
tell you you're bad, that would be toxic.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
That's the put down thing.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
She was definitely a friend, where like I was very,
very worried all the time that whatever I said or did,
our friendship was over and that was the end.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
But we did have some wonderful times together and it
does make me sad right.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
And there, there definitely is.
Speaker 4 (47:42):
I think that's the part of the problem is when
you remember the good times mm hmm, and it's been
long enough that you forgot the bad times, you're like, eh,
but it's.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Nice to have those memories.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
And I've always been that type of person who would
say that I love meeting people, even though I'm an
inter because they change your perspective somehow, and you find
something new about yourself in that relationship, and hopefully it's
a good thing.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
And even if it's a bad thing, it's still a
lesson to learn. It's the very least.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
And then as I'm getting to forty, yeah, I only
have time for essential friendship, meaning people who I can
feed into and they could feed into me and we
can come out together as better people. Like it's just
when you get to a certain age, it's harder to
make friends a B.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
I've become more set in.
Speaker 4 (48:29):
My ways as I get older, and it's harder for
me to change my personality to fit.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
You don't get me wrong.
Speaker 4 (48:36):
Reading a room and being able to at least understand
and be compassionate and all of that for sure, But
at the same time, I'm not going to be giddy, happy, sweet,
go lucky girl. That's just not me, right, And I
no longer have time, right or the mental capacity to
try to change my personality to fit into this. I mean,
(48:58):
I feel like I struggled to not just without work
and try to be professional. I don't know whether you know,
like professional is hard for me?
Speaker 3 (49:08):
Yeah, yeah, And I think that's something we all kind
of learn and go through. Is essentially, what is this
friendship giving me? Is it worth the time and energy?
And I know back when I first started and we
were the stuff, I've never told you had the YouTube
channel that was really active. That was one of the
(49:30):
things we heard the most from young listeners especially, was
how do I I'm in a toxic friendship?
Speaker 1 (49:37):
What do I do? So?
Speaker 3 (49:39):
I know that this is something we all have dealt
with and seen, right, So I hope that this helps
in some way.
Speaker 4 (49:46):
Yes, And the good news is there are people out
there who can connect. And there was a survey that
said that one in ten people don't actually have close friends.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
That made me sad because.
Speaker 4 (49:59):
I definitely could tell you you immediately the four people
that I could call if I was in an emergency state.
And that makes me sad to think that someone might
go without that because for sure, as a person who
don't feel close to my family didn't have a family
at one point in time, my friends are my family.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
Yeah, So I.
Speaker 4 (50:17):
Can't imagine what it would be like not to have
people close to me that I could lean on and
know that we'll be there for the times that I
can't be there for myself or that I can't see
the reason to keep going because I've had many of
those times. Yeah, but having friends to truly be there
to hold my hand in the darkest moments. That's been
a lifesaver, literally a lifesaver for me.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
Yes, I totally agree.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
That's very, very, very powerful and I wish that everyone
had it because I think it does make you good.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
Friendships help you make you.
Speaker 3 (50:50):
Better because I have see you and Samantha knows, I've
been on a fan fiction binge.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
I just read a fan fiction where one of.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
The characters was like about to die and realized like
literally no one would come to save him because he's
a terrible person and no friends.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
It's then changed his ways once he survived.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
That sounds like a scrooge.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
It's very very much Yes, yes, don't be a scrooge everyone.
Speaker 4 (51:24):
And if you need friends and you've been listening to
us and count as us friends, please know.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
We are your friends.
Speaker 3 (51:30):
Yes, yes, we really do appreciate the support from all
of you. That is a true statement. And if you
would like to contact us, you can Our email is
Stuff medium, mom Steph at iHeartMedia dot com. You can
find us on Instagram at Stepmo I've never told you
are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always
to our super producer Christina.
Speaker 2 (51:46):
Who is also a friend.
Speaker 3 (51:47):
Yes, and thanks to you for listening steff I never
told you his protection of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
For more podcast from Iheartradiovi.
Speaker 3 (51:53):
Is it the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 4 (52:04):
Yeah,
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm welcome to.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Step On Never Told your production of iHeartRadio. Yes, we
are back with another classic. We are moving towards the
end of January, I believe as this comes out January
twenty twenty four, and we've been bringing back a lot
(00:27):
of classics around resolutions or just maybe things you might
want to change in the new year. And one of
them that came to mind for me, not that I
have anything going on around this, but was how to
break up with the friends?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Oh yeah, yeah, because I think a.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Lot of times towards the end of the year, you
take stock of that in the beginning of the year
and what relationships are good for you and healthy for you.
And sometimes that can mean I'm making the decision to
either cut back on your hanging out with someone or
to cut it off completely, and that can be a
really hard, hard thing. But I do around this time,
(01:03):
I think I've heard friends of mine talking about it
and really wrestling with well, I don't know, maybe I
don't maybe we're not actually friends, Like maybe this isn't
a friendship at all. So for anyone who is dealing
with that, wrestling with that, please enjoy this classic episode. Hey,
(01:29):
this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steph. I've
never told your production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Oh Annie, I have a question for you. Okay, can
you tell me a time in your childhood you had
a friendship ending moment?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
So the one that comes immediately to mind actually wasn't
a friendship ending moment for me, but one of my
best friends who's been on the show. Now, Katie, and
I have two best friends Katie, so that's very confusing.
But recently. Katie we grew up together. We were neighbors
and I loved hanging out with her.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
She was friends with another Katie, my goodness.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Katie Jones, who was like a cool kid, and I
was very much not a cool kid at this point.
This was like third grade. I was cool up until
third grade, but then things changed. But they were both
at my house because Katie had come to visit my
friend Katie, and my friend Katie wanted to come hang
out with me. And I'm sorry this is so confusing,
(02:36):
but we were playing like that game of hop scotch
where you it's like a snail. I don't know if
anybody remembers that, but we loved playing it, and Katie
Jones reached her boiling point and said to my friend Katie, like,
I don't like this girl, Annie. You choose right here now,
which one of us is it gonna because I will
(02:57):
walk out of here right now, won't be friends anymore.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
And I was kind of shocked because I didn't know
where this code.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Had come from.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
But my friend Katie, she just continued to play the
game in silence, didn't say anything, and Katie Jones walked
away by herself.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
And history was made.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, yeah, okay, it was pretty dramatic.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
That is dramatic. I've never had a full fledged declaration. Yeah,
in giving you an ultimatum, wow, especially middle school.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
That it was elementary school.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
And uh yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
They were not friends again after that, and things were
always awkward between me and Katie Jones. And we both
played clarinet and band. It was a little tense.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I love it. You gotta love to have competition, That's
what that is, right.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
I was second chair, she was third.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Oh nice, when you would I did?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
I did?
Speaker 2 (03:58):
No, Yeah, I think I've had I had a few incidents.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
I know I had one friend who was so bossy
that I Finally, I remember being on a swing set.
I just looked at her and yelled at her, stopped
telling me what to do, and walked off, and we
were never friends after that. It was weird because it
was more of like she was trying to get me
to talk.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
To a boy and I didn't like that.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
Yeah, and that was kind of the end of the
friendship because I was like, I don't want to talk
to even though I'm pretty sure I would say annoying
one as a kid, But that's the one I can
remember more so than anything else.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
And a lot of my friendships.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Didn't end because anything bad, but a lot of them
ended because they moved away or circumstances happened where we.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Changed an interest. But it was never like, oh, we
can't be friends that you think of.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
I did have my other next door neighbor, Jordan.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
She was a bit younger than me, and I kind
of resented her after a while because it was those
situation where we always carpolled together.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
We did our mom's were friends.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
And so it was just like convenience, and she spent
so much time at my house and we babysit her family,
and I really didn't like her brothers. I felt like
they were mean to my brother and they took advantage
of all of our stuff, Like we would be not
at home and we would come home and they were
like using all of our stuff and it bothered me. Yeah,
but I was I think looking back, I was kind
(05:21):
of controlling, but she was also kind of mean.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
See, and I overheard her.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Talking about me on several occasions, and eventually I was like,
I don't think we're friends anymore. You know.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I had that too.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
I had a friend that I was friends with her
for three or four years, but it was definitely one
of those friendships that I was.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Her psychic, if you know what I mean. Like she
would do.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
All these things so I would have to hang out
with her to so she could hang out with this boy.
I would have to do this with her that she
would love. I didn't want to do, but I'm like, okay,
I'm here. And I remember her trying to get validation
and want to flirt with boys and that was fine.
That was just not something I want to do. And
I was very scared of boys at this point in time.
And I remember her making fun of me for that,
(06:04):
and I was like, look, just because you like being
with all the guys doesn't mean I want to. She
took that as me calling her a slut and told
her friends that I called her a slut, and so
like they completely heard that, and then I was judgmental
and I could hear them talking about me, and they
would gang up on me on the bus said by myself.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Oh, I was one of those stories.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
We kept kind of in touch for the most part,
but we definitely because we were also different grades and
all of that, so that changed.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
She got a car, I didn't get a car. I
had to work. She didn't have to work, so it
was all nice for her. But yeah, it was really
weird friendship.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
I remember trying to figure out how like a man,
I was like, this is a bad teenage.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Movie, right right.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
But yes, we've discussed.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
I'm sure everybody's wondering while we're talking about this, and
we've discussed before the power of female friendship and the
power of platonic female connection, and honestly, it's something that's
been a comfort and a lot of big, big help.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
In this last year.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Friendship is, by the way, defined by Mariam Webster as
the state of being friends or the quality or state
of being friendly, which I feel like that's not strong.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Enough of definition to me because I'm like friendship is
so powerful.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Maybe that's right.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
It's almost like the acquaintance. Yes, I feel like there's
a bunch of levels of friends. You know, you've got
your inner circle friends, and then you've got kind of
your acquaintance friends, right, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah, you do.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
That's like the best friend title. Who's the best friend?
Who's your crew?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Definitely a lot of title to that. And if you've
been a.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
Listener of the show, I think you probably already know.
We are all about women supporting women, and about how
important it is to maintain friendships with other women. As
in fact, I've always been one of those who go
by the Leslie Nope motto of uterresses before duterises.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I mean that for anyone with a uterus.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
And of course, one of my I think one of
my better qualities I don't know, is that I am
ridiculously loyal and I'm definitely one of those that you
just can't mess with my people. If you do, I'm
coming to get you real hard.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I would agree. I think you're very loyal. I think
you're a wonderful friend.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
I one of.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
The most fortunate areas I think in my life is
that I had really good and strong friendships with other
girls and women pretty much my entire life. And some
of those, you know, did fade away or turned out
to not work out for whatever reason. But I had
a core group of friends from high school and I'm
(08:51):
still really good friends with and we still see each other.
And then I have people from college, and then i
have people from work and like outside circles, and I
just think it's so whenever I'm thinking of.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Difficult situations and how do you get through.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
It or what do you enjoy in life, it's almost
always like, oh, I have the support of my friends.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
I have the support of this group of friends.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
They're there for me, and they bring so much joy
and all so much support as well. And I know
people in my life who I'm close to who don't
have that, who don't have a strong support group of friends,
and I've just seen how lucky I am to have it,
(09:33):
like how difficult it can be without it.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
So I am very much with you, Samantha.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
I'm a huge proponent of friendships and especially among women,
And though we could continue to yes, sing the praises
of female friendship. We aren't talking about that necessarily today.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
No, today we wanted to.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Take a look at the end of friendships and specifically
what happens when women stop being friends with other women.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
And we need to go ahead and let you know.
I know that many of the.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Articles about that are heavily weighed down with a lot
of misogynistic language, a lot of stereotypical ideas of female
friends i e. Caddy, backstabbing, drama queen, and characteristics like that.
So though we may mention it, please take that with
a grain of salt.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Right, So, there are several reasons why a friendship will end.
We talked a little bit about it before in our
own personal experiences, and I'm sure we've all dealt with
it for some reason, but we wanted to look at
why and even when maybe we should go ahead and
just let it end.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yes, And one of those things.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
I've never heard of this before, but when I heard
the term, I was immediately like, oh, yeah, I know
what this is, and that's friendship fade. Yeah. So there
have been different reasons in ways to end a friendship,
and one of them is this one, which has been
more of a thing since the pandemic and lockdowns. I've
definitely heard people talk about it, like, you know who
your real friends are are, like the sticking friends I
(10:57):
feel like for me though, my experience has been there
so that I have faded, but I'm confident they're going
to come back right. Like we're just not hanging out
that much right now, and there's a lot of stress.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
But I feel like if that eases.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
We will hang out right And then just because it
happens doesn't mean it happens because it's something bad or
because you mean like you're being mean about it. It's
not always intended as negative.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I don't like you thing.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Right exactly, But okay, what exactly is friendship fade? According
to a Woman's Health article, friendship faid is the quote
feeling that your formally tight connections are disappearing at down
a pit of silence, just not gloomy at all. Of
silence sounds like a Dungeons and Dragon spell.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
There you go, I silence.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
But this is a bit different from the friendly fade,
which the Urban Dictionary defines as quote a passive aggressive
method to break up with a friend without being hurtful
or ghosting a friendship and we will come back to.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
That, right.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
So, not surprisingly, the pandemic has opened up the possibility
of this happening, and there could be so many reasons
outside of just being overwhelmed and panicked about the state
of the world, and for me specifically, one of the
reasons of the faith is due to the fact like
there's nothing new or really meaningful that's happening right now.
(12:20):
So I feel like when people ask me how are you,
I really have nothing to say other than eh, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
You know, yeah.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
My daily routine has come to the point that it
has become monotonous. Wake up, take out the dog, work, eat,
watch the same shows over and over again, and go
to bed again.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
When someone asks what I've been doing? Is there anything
new going on with you? Literally, I'm like no.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
My mom is the same, which is funny because as
the child, I feel like I'm the one always kind
of I don't do this anymore, but when I was younger,
I would dodge phone calls and stuff, and now I
get the feelings she's dodging by. And she told me
she's like, well, you know, I'm just not doing much.
I don't have much to talk about right, Yeah, that
makes sense, nor do I. And that's definitely something I've noticed,
(13:11):
especially in conversations with her, because it used to be
kind of I would come in and I'd be like.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Here's the fifteen thousand new things.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
That have happened, and now it's sort of like, oh,
my shashido plant has red shasheetos on it. Now she
is exciting by the way, and especially in regards to
lockdowns and rules, people have been divided on how to
the letter, people may be following those rules and for
some that changed the way.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
You vowed that friendship.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Yes, I mean sure, yes, I think we even had
so we just finally are getting to the point of
going out. We hung out with your co host from Saber, Lauren,
and she was talking about, you know, what she did
during the pandemic, and she made stay but of course
I think you and Annie had a little more stricter
lockdown follows and and we were like, yeah, and apparently
(14:01):
people have been going out and I'm like, oh, oh wow,
I didn't know that. And definitely when making plans it
was me, you my partner, that was it. And if
I wanted to make plans with someone, we made sure
that we had a two week quarantine check up. If
we need to make sure that the other person had
tested and let each other know what's going on, and
then we wouldn't hang out. Apparently not everyone's doing that,
(14:23):
and I think we had. Did we have a conversation, Yeah,
we had a conversation about the fact that we wanted
to invite certain people, but we were thinking, I don't
know if they're actually following the quarantine rules.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Yeah, it's been really tough for me and I imagine
for a lot of people because it's not a shocking
thing to hear, Like I'm not I knew people were
doing that, but so I do get hurt by it
and I get a little mad about it. And honestly,
after we learned that when we were hanging out that time,
I went home and got really upset. Oh no, and
it's I had to think about why it was upsetting
(14:56):
me so much, and there's obviously something else going on there.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
But it is.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
It's an issue, and it's an issue where it's hard
not to have some sort of emotion one way or
the other where there's there's particularly in my case, I'm
thinking of one guy.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Who I know when I meet when we hang out.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
It's going to become a point where he's going to
be like, I don't get why you were taking it
so seriously, and it's going to be hard for me
not to fight with this guy.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I could see that.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
I mean definitely for me, a part of that whole,
like people getting together, was I felt left out. And
this is a fear of mine of being left out
and unwanted. And even though it absolutely was my role
and my choice, but hearing about the after fact, because
they knew where I stood.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
And so therefore, of course I'm not gonna invite you
wouldn't have come.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Very true, very true.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yes, I'm still hard by it. I'm still hard by it.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
No, isn't that the kicker though? Where Yes, it's like.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
You know that you would have said no, but you
want to be asked anywhere exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
I've said that to a group of friends previously.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
I was like, I know I'm not coming, and i
know I'm having a hard time responding to things, but
please don't leave me out.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah. No, I'm absolutely the same.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
I think I'm glad I didn't know about this because
I would have been made Oh yeah, but in general,
I do like sometimes I just say yes because I'm
afraid they'll stop asking me to go out, right, But yeah,
that's definitely been the new waters to navigate when it
comes to friendships and ideas around quarantining and this whole pandemic,
(16:41):
because it's also it goes back to almost that awkward
the joke of the awkward conversations you have with people
now where it's like, oh, what vaccine did you get? Oh? Right, right,
So it's kind of inevitably going to come up probably,
so it's just hard to avoid and it is people
have emotions and thoughts about.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
It, they do, mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
And then there's also for women who have children and families,
perhaps just finding the time or energy to keep up
a friendship was too much.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Can totally see that.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Right, sounds exhausting, oh for sure, for sure, and many
have suffered loss or tragedy, and that type of experience
can completely flip a person's desire to socialize or even
feel like they can reach out to someone. And yeah,
that's that's another thing that I struggle with in friendships,
is being if I feel like I have something sad
(17:36):
or I guess just not even fun to talk about.
I don't feel like I can talk about it because
I feel like they're going to be like, oh, this
is awkward, and I don't want to be here right now.
I don't want to be talking about this right But
that's what friendship is, as you're being open with people
and all of that, but especially when you think someone
(17:56):
else is struggling too, you don't want to add to
their struggles.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
It has been a time of struggling.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
And which we're going to talk about in the bit.
But yeah, I feel the same way, especially when I
had my previous jobs.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
They were Debbie Downer jobs. To say the least.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
I came in as d Debbie Downer of the group
because if they asked me how my day went, Oh,
you don't want to ask me how my day went.
You know, tragedies and the sadness that happened in my field,
the many losses that I had over the winds, and
even my wins were sad. I remember I was trying
to explain to friends about something that was good, but
(18:30):
in what that sounded like. But it's still a child
that didn't have a parent and was going through loss.
How is this good type of situation? And being told
to stop talking. That's so like it. I actually was
shut down saying, really, you're going to talk about this now,
And I'm like, someone.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Just asked me how my day went, and this is
how my day went, and it.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Was a victory for me, even though to you it
sounds really sad because you don't want to talk about
children with loss, and I'm like, sorry, but yeah, that
taught me real quick. Oh, I can't talk to you,
I can't be with you, I can't let you know
what's going on because you don't want sad things.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
And unfortunately, with my job, that's the majority of my stories.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Right, that was a very dramatical loo key out of
your face.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
I'm just saying, well, we do have some more we
want to discuss, but first we have a quick break
for a word from our sponsor, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Thank you. Sponsored.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
What do you do if you have allowed the fade
to occur? I'm very very guilty of this, but want
to snap back.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
It's time.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
It's time we come back, right, maybe, I think again,
we've all been there. We get busy, overwhelmed, or just
don't have the mental capacity to call someone or even text.
But that's not because we don't want to. That's not
because we're trying to stop a friendship or fade a friendship.
It just happens. Life happens, So what can we do
(20:11):
to change that?
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Well, first and foremost, be gentle with yourself and with
your friends. It might have been a few days or
weeks ever since you've heard from your people, But just
like us, they are going through the hardships of the
currency of the world. But what if they are going
through other things as well?
Speaker 1 (20:29):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
And I don't know how many times I've been depressed
or completely exhausted, and I'm thinking, why aren't people checking
up on me? Why can't they read my mind? I
know I need them to check it up on me.
But then to realize maybe they're feeling the exact same thing,
or maybe they're going through something even harder, like those
moments of feeling like you're being neglected, you're also neglecting others.
(20:49):
You never know what's happening.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
And just as simple.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Hello, And usually for me that's a gift of like, hey,
you know, I think my favorite one is the there's
a seal that runs up and does a wave. Okay, no, hello,
I love it, and that can change things that could
just be as simple I'm here, I'm check it up
without having to be too invasive, and it doesn't take
that much time because again, we never know to maybe
(21:14):
in the same place, and that miscommunication of who's going
to be the one that reaches out, yeah, causes.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
A kind of friction.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
I had a friend who we actually sat down and
talked about this because she was fundamentally misunderstanding and I
was fundamentally misunderstanding where both of us were coming from
because I was struggling with insecurity and I still do
where I don't want to be annoying or bother people, right,
(21:43):
So sometimes that means I won't reach out because I
don't want to bother people. But to her that was
reading as she's not reaching out, right, So there's that,
and then I do. I very vividly remember in college
having the realization of even people who look like they're
so put together in quotes and everything's fine, Yeah, you
(22:05):
don't know what they're dealing with.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
You really don't unless you check or ask, right.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
I used to have I don't necessarily think this was
a super healthy thing either, but I used to have
what I called the list of don't neglect, and I
would have people it was just this list.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
I'm like, check in on these people.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
And I would go through the list, you know, every
couple of days, just to make sure.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Keep in mind on that list.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Well, I don't do it anymore. This was in.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
This was like when I first graduated college, and I
mean it was such a like anything to do where
I took something that should be fun and it became
much more of like a to do list and a stress.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
So I stopped doing it.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
But smart, Yeah, but yeah, I have those people in mind,
and it doesn't have to be big, like you said,
it can just be you know, hey, I saw this
and thought of you. And if they don't respond, that's cool.
They'll respond when they can, hopefully. And yeah, it's a
(23:06):
simple a simple hello. It can work whether it's through
a text, a phone call, Marco Polo, whatever way you know,
whatever way you typically communicate with your friend, or sometimes
it's fun to mix it up. Just a simple connection
can really do wonders. And yeah, I remember, your friendship
is the ability to just be yourself with someone.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Right.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
One thing my friends and I would always laugh about
because I don't know there's an inside joke about just
the fact that I'm always sleepy.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I'm always sleepy, I just am. And you know this,
that we can.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
Just be around each other and take a nap, and
that's true friendship. Like we would say, two friends nap together,
and I thought it was hilarious. But the overall ability
is that we can just be there without having to
entertain one another. And that was okay, that's fine. We
can do our own thing, but just be in each
other's space.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
That's nice.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Yeah. I had my other friend Katie.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
We had a standing nap time on Fridays at three pm.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
We would take naps together.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
And guy, look, when you get to the point where
you're super busy but you're trying to neglect your friendship,
you come together and you realize, oh my gosh, I'm
so tired, and the other person's like, yeah, me too.
I'm like, you know what, let's just close their eyes.
There's fifteen minute breaks, how about. Yeah, there's something delightful
to that.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
It is because you're trusting someone with your kind of
like vulnerable, sleepy, not real interesting self at the moment.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah, and I love and you're you're one of these transmitted.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
But I love when you have a friendship where you
can kind of do your own thing. Like somebody will
be working on like one friend she sketches a lot
when we hang out while I'm like working on Dungeons
and No Dragons or fan fiction.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
And we're together and we'll occasionally talk to each other.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
It could be really short and easy going, but it's
not like we're doing something very exciting. It's kind of
separate but together. But there is, yeah, that camaraderie.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
There there is. I think there's something nice to that.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
Yes, And then also you can be thoughtful and romantic
with your friends and and you're really great at this.
And when I say that, giving small gifts or large
ones sometimes for no reason just to say I'm thinking
about you. I saw this and thought about you is
really really nice.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yeah, and thank you for saying that you are too.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
I do. It sounds really cheesy, but I get these
moments of just like such pure warm love for friends,
or like I've got to do something for this person, right,
and it just gets in my head and I'll do
I'll send like a silly video or y'all, I'll get
a gift. But I just get like overwhelmed with love
(25:42):
for someone and I want to do something. And there
have been so many different occasions when someone has just
needed to talk or feel loved, and giving small tokens
or small gifts is such an amazing thing to do
to show that thoughtfulness goes a long way. And I mean,
it's wonderful to get gifts when you but it's also
lovely to get something when you're not. It doesn't have
(26:03):
to be even a gift, like like I said, I
used to do. I used to do a lot of
funny videos or something.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Right, Yes, you definitely did one for me. I did,
and you know what, because of we were using the
word romantic. This is also one of those that are
usually typically done by women. You don't see many male
friends giving each other things.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
I know. That was a whole shtick and New Girl.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
In which Schmidt gives his friend Nick a cookie and
he just and Nick is very suspicious.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
He's like, why why are you giving me this cookie?
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Why?
Speaker 4 (26:33):
It was a whole episode based on the fact that
their thoughtfulness and he's like, men don't give each other gifts.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Men don't do these things.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
And it's typically correct that I've only seen men give
the romantic partners a gift, but to give to each
other it seems so unugal, right, that makes me said
that they're messing out.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Yeah, it can be such a lovely, lovely thing.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Yeah it is.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
But maybe you're good without that particular friendship anymore.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Yeah, then that's okay. That's okay too.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Maybe that friendship wasn't what you really needed, or maybe
it's no longer what you need, or some of those
differences that we talked about are too big and it
causes conflict and it maybe it's not a balanced friendship
to begin with.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
So let's talk about that.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yes, okay, So when is a friendship unhealthy? We wanted
to look into when a friendship is not an actual friendship.
So yes, let's start with toxic friendships. Toxic friendship is
something that causes a negative impact on your life. They
never give support or compassion in your life. They are
typically draining, unrewarding, stifling, unsatisfying, and unequal and again from
(27:46):
Urban Dictionary, these so called friends often backstab, gossip, lie,
act selfish, use, belittle, and even manipulate, and are taking
more than giving back to the friendship. Sadness and resentment
is felt towards the toxic friends. Breaking away from these
toxic friends is a must. And you probably all heard
terms like emotional vampire or energy vampire as well, which
(28:07):
doesn't necessarily have to be a friend, but often goes
into this whole thing.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Right, So we did want to talk about some of
the warning signs, and they're a lot more out there.
There are a lot more articles that you can look
at that give you specific maybe actions that are taking place.
But we just to do a few of those warning signs,
and one of them.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Is that they always put you down.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
So of course I'm not necessarily talking about every once
in a while just a friendly jab where you tease
each other and move on.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Which I think I've done to you.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
Yes, But if it's something that's not only causes you
to feel bad about yourself, or something that causes your embarrassment,
maybe you should rethink this friendship and.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
What it's about.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
An example that I think of on the top of
my head is the Mean Girls movie where poor Gretchen
just constantly gets yelled at by Regina and put down
constantly about being told that her ideas are and everything
she's doing is not as good as her that would
be one of those put down not good friendships right.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Another sign is crossing boundaries. Do they make you uncomfortable?
Do they keep pushing you to do things you don't
want to do, or they don't listen when you let
them know you don't like something or don't want to
be a part of something.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
That is a sign. Another one is takers.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Those friends who use you for what you have, constantly
coming to complain and need advice, but their chicken on
you are see how you are doing.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
Right, And then there's a non supporter. We all have dreams,
of course and goals and we definitely need help sometimes,
whether it's someone who would call just to see how
you're doing that day or how are you doing with things,
or those who just show up for you for moral support.
But if someone is not doing this but you're constantly
doing that for them, that's not someone you want to
be around. That's not someone who is a good friend,
someone who if you're trying to do something new me
(29:57):
I was trying to knit, you're very supportive and I
really appreciate that as where those non supportive would probably
go ahead and talk down on you and ask you
why you're doing it.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
And you're going to fail. Those are people you don't
want to be around.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Yes, Yes, And when you get older and you look
back on how behaviors you had when you were younger,
there were some like I've really been working on, where
I would.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Get jealous of friends.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
I would get jealous if I thought like they were,
you know, having a better life or whatever, being cooler,
And it was really hard for me to not like
say something kind of snarky to work about it, or
something kind of a put down. And that's been something
I've recognized and I've like actively tried to work on
as I've gotten older. And that's something to keep in
mind too, is to look for those things in yourself,
(30:44):
and especially if you have a friend who says something
about it, you should examine that thing, right.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
And I have an.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Instance of two friends in my life who were both
my best friends, and they had a huge fight in
college and they have not made up.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
One of them wants to and the other one doesn't.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
But it's also complicated because they're both my friends, and
I've heard both of their sides of it, and I
get both of their sides of it, and you know,
you can't force someone if they're not ready to be
your friend again, then that's that's that.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Yeah, it sucks, but yeah, would I would just also
keep in mind your own behaviors and friendships as well, exactly.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
M hmm.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
There's also something called co rumination. Co Rumination is defined
as quote extensive and frequent discussion, speculation, and focus on
negative feelings related to personal problems with close friends or friends.
That's from the National Institute of Health. It usually involves
the constant discussion and rehashing of the same problems and
often includes focusing on quote causes, implications, and negative feelings
(31:48):
around that problem. So think of when you were going
through a bad breakup and you went to your closest
friends to talk about all the whise what went wrongs
and how things could have changed.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
So, yeah, this is actually we need to watch this.
I'm thinking about a Sex in the City episode where
specifically Carrie cannot stop talking about Big at that point
they'd broken up for the second time, and she goes
on and on and on and on to the point
that her three friends intervene and say, Okay, this is
a big, big intervention because you know he was called
(32:21):
Big because we cannot deal with this, that we cannot
keep talking about all the negatives you're bringing everyone down,
and not that we don't want to talk about it,
but we've given you the weak, long allowance of doing so,
and you keep repeating the same thing and it's becoming
really negative for you as well as for us. And
they were like, you need a therapist, and apparently they're like,
(32:43):
you know, we have the same.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Issues too, and we don't know what to do.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
This is why we have therapists, because we need someone
else to give us an unbiased opinion instead of yeah,
that dude's a dick, which that dude was a dick.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Anyway, just go to there.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
But yeah, So, of course talking with our friends and
really letting go when working through things isn't a bad thing,
as in fact, one of the things I cherish most
is being able to completely be honest about all my
hurts and insecurities and having friends comfort me or shake
me out of it, like I really need that reality check.
So co ruminating can be a function of bonding for
(33:19):
many friends and can in the long run benefit in
a higher relationship satisfaction. And this is according to a
study completed by the Oklahoma State University. Not only that,
but the quality of the relationship and social support are
also higher for those who co ruminate. So not all
bad thing. And apparently this is only typically seen in
friendships with women. So men don't co ruminate, according to
(33:42):
the statistic, with their male friends. It's not something that
they do. They don't sit and empathize with each other,
which we kind of talked about a little before, but
they specifically said.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
This is not a thing that happens with men.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Wow. Yeah, yeah. However, there is some bad.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
It's not all good because co ruminating is essentially sharing
and feeling each other's stress and anxiety, and it can
become a negative cycle and once you feed off each
other's stressors, causing a higher stress synchronicity that can also
trigger other mental health issues like depression. Psychologists Amanda Rose
found when women co ruminate, they were quote more susceptible
to emotional disorders. And with that, if your friendship is
(34:22):
based on shared pain or bad experiences, there's a danger
that you quote might start manufacturing that pain to keep
the relationship going, and doing so can lead to a
quote elevated risk of depression and anxiety. If these friendships
are dependent on only the bad and painful things in
the relationship, perhaps it's time to reflect on if that
(34:42):
relationship is healthy.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
And there are examples specifically through people who were talking
about they actually really thrived on when their friends were
going through bad things and were excited by that and
was wanting to be the go person. And you know,
the co ruminating part is a little too real for
me feel I felt other attacked reading this. I'm not
gonna lie because I want to be a go to
person for people.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
That's kind of the thing. I think that's part of.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
My whole caregiver mentality that I really want to be
there for you, and so knowing that you trust me
enough to come to me in these dark times, yeah,
feels so rewarding that it's like, yeah, it kind of
does feed into I know I'm needed, and therefore I'm
going to keep being needed by being this person.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
And maybe if you have these traumas then.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
This is good for me, right, but it is it's
really unhealthy when you take on too much. I remember
there was one point where two of my closest friends
were going through really really hard things and I was
crying and upset about it later on to the point
that I realized that I was in pain because they
were in such pain that I felt like I couldn't
be happy. Right, it was a weird thing, and they
weren't doing that on purpose. And please understand, these two
(35:51):
friends are the best friends that I've had, and I
could do the same with them, and I have done
the same with them, but because of what was happening
that it was so intense, because it just felt like
every body was falling apart, that I didn't have the
right to be okay.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Yeah, and whereas I like, on the other hand, I'm
someone who struggles with like everything has to be even,
and so I've already and this is such a terrible thing,
but I've already been like, here are the people who
were really there for me when my dad died, so
when their parents died, to really be there, which is awful,
(36:25):
Like I want to be there for them, but it's
just one of those things where it's like, already stressing
me out right, that happened.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Yet you're like, who do I owe?
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Yep, yep, And again, that's not what friendship is. That's
what it's about. You should try to be as like
equal as possible in giving and receiving. But it's not
like a book, right, It's not like a debt sheet
that you need to keep track of. I mean, you
should keep in mind if one person is doing a
lot more than the other, But in general it evens
out right.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
Right, you know, a true friendship you do for each
other without thinking about that because it's automatic. It's easy
from both them so for sure. And you know, I
never really knew the term co ruminating, so.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
It's like, oh, oh, that's what that is.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
Grow So there's something to think on, for sure. But
to go a little deeper than just co ruminating and
toxic friendships, we did want to talk a little bit
about abusive friendships, and it's not talked about often, but
it should be something that people are aware of and
should watch out for. As in fact, a couple of
articles we're talking about the fact that this is not
(37:30):
addressed because it's not technically seen as domestic violence, and
so therefore people don't recognize it as quickly and realize
how harmful it could be. But more often than not,
abusive friendships and toxic friendships get mixed up, so we
just kind of use those words interchangeably, and there is
a subtle difference within.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Abuse of friendships.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
You do again see the similar signs of toxic friendship,
but it continues on. As one article states, abusive friendships
often start on a positive note, but then the abuser
may use repetition compulsion, which is when an abused person
may unknowingly replay unresolved family dysfunctions in a new adult relationship,
and that abuser uses that so they know what you've
(38:11):
gone through and are able to use.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
That tactic against you, much like an abuser.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
Essentially, the person who is mistreated or abused may have
gone through a lot in their childhood and endured so
much in the childhood that it becomes a norm and
is familiar. So therefore they don't realize that that's what's
being extended into these friendships. And oftentimes you see you
don't realize the negativity that's falling on you, and you
feel like that's what you deserve or that's what friendship is.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
Yeah, there have definitely been some situations, never like this
to this extent, but there have been situations where I
looked back and I was like, Wow, that wasn't a
good friendship. But at the time, it seemed just normal, right,
It felt like it just almost like the frog in
the boiling pot where it slowly got worse and worse.
But you were thinking this as your friend, and it
would be a failure to cut off the friendship, right, have.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
To stay friends.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Abusers will play on your insecurities, but only after they
have quote seduced you into a trusting relationship, and they
are often excessively charming and attentive. Some other warning signs
include harassment, dishonesty, and manipulations. They are also likely to
be very argumentative and critical, and abusive friendships can cause
(39:21):
so many mental health and physical issues, such as depression, anxiety,
stomach problems, high blood pressure, and even PTSD.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
I think again, we did want to address this, and
of course this is still vague. It might not be
all about the physical abuse, which is what's so easily
noted as this is abuse, right, but this emotional manipulative
tactics that causes people to be triggered in so many
ways by what their actions are because they know they
can trigger you or guilt you, or manipulate you into
(39:52):
filling that you owe them something, that it becomes an
abusive relationship.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Right, And we do have a little bit more for
you listeners, but first we're going to pause for one
more work break for word from our sponsor, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Thank you sponsors.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
So not all friendships and because it's bad. So it's
not all about toxic friendships and or abusive friendships. But
you know, things happen, we grow, we change, and sometimes
that means friendships change too. And there are people I
think gone fondly, but perhaps because of distance, we're not
(40:40):
friends anymore. Maybe they started a family, and because I
don't have a family, it's harder for us to relate,
or it's harder to find time. Any of those things
could be reasons while we are no longer friends. And yeah,
just your interests and commonalities have shifted. And of course
there's also possibility that your difference in belief. Yeah, that
(41:01):
changes friendships. Perhaps it's politics. And for me, definitely my
friends from my hometown, I don't talk to them as much.
Some of us stopped talking altogether because of their reactions
to Black Lives Matter, and that made me go, no, that's.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
A deal breaker for me. If you can't see how
this is racist, sorry that it.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
Is what it is as well as the fact that
I was super religious growing up. I'm no longer religious,
and that changed a lot of friendships for me from
college and high school, which again super religious to not
and those people who are super religious still doesn't mesh
too well in the end.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Yeah. Yeah, And that is one of those things of.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
Growing friendships and changing friendships because I too came from
a very small conservative town and sometimes because I was
liberal back then and most people are conservative and I'm
getting fights.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
It's like my seventh grade it is my friends about their rock.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
Wars, but I didn't have like too many like minded
friends that choose from But some of my friends who
didn't think that way then have changed when they got
out of the small town and things like that. So yeah,
for sure, And that's something I've always struggled with where
I'm just so determined. But we were such good friends.
(42:19):
We have to stay good friends. But sometimes, yeah, it's
just you change and they change and things.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Life changes.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Life changes.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
It does.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
That's not to say I do think you can make
things work if there's like an equal amount of interest
in time. But yeah, however, what if you want to
break up with a friend, how do you do that.
You can limit time. Sometimes ending of friendship is not necessary.
Maybe it's all about limiting the amount of time or
even specific situations, maybe only in group settings or maybe
(42:50):
one on one setting. Boundaries are always a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (42:55):
I definitely had a friend of mine who I didn't
get along with a person and the way they explain
their friendship, not that they had to explain their friendship,
but because I wasn't the only one who was like,
I can't be around this person. They are too much
of this, this and this, and I'm going to go off.
I think I've said that I have a short temper.
But they were like, yeah, they're one of those friends
(43:16):
that they're better one on one.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
They're really sweet and very attentive.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
They get around a group of people and they don't
know how to pull back and just our vibrant personality.
And I'm like, okay, okay, yeah you have that one
on one setting. I'm good, which is not nice, but whatever,
but yeah. Also, we talked a little bit before about
the fading, the ghosting. It's a slow walking away from
(43:41):
a relationship. And I'd say this metaphorically obviously, and it
may be the best solution possible, especially when we're talking
about abusive or toxic relationships where you feel like it's
just be combative trying to have a conversation with it.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
So whether it's you.
Speaker 4 (43:55):
Know, less texting right, a little more time, not seeing
them as much as you used to, or all together,
you know, not answering the call immediately kind of situation,
not confiding in them so much, that might be a
solution for you if you really feel like that's the
only solution. Then again, let's say it is a really
deep and personal relationship, but there's something that has happened
(44:17):
that you feel like this is not going to work.
A face to face conversation could work. Just be honest
and open and also be willing to admit yourself when
you haven't been the best friend as well, and so
that could be a solution. I will say I know
many of people as of late sending emails, and I've
actually had an email they weren't necessarily trying to break well,
(44:41):
it did sound like a breakup letter.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
It did sound like a breakup letter. Actually, it's happened
to me twice.
Speaker 4 (44:46):
Oh my gosh, should remember this, So it's happened to
me twice.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Man I must be a bad friend.
Speaker 4 (44:50):
The first time was because I was super religious and
pampas and over the top, and when they corrected me,
I was like, you're correct, I'm so sorry, and we
were fine After that.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
That opened up a whole other conversation.
Speaker 4 (45:01):
Another one was because they decided that because they were
married now that they wanted to start a family and
being around single friends wasn't good for them.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
They broke up with me.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
I know, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to laugh at
your Saturdays. I'm a bad friend.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
I just remembered why, and remembering those I'm like, wow.
And of course, to be fair, it wasn't a bad
thing to me.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
I was like, yeah, okay, area, Yeah, we were talking
about this recently, So I guess I have a combo.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
I have a combo example, because.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
I have an email fade out situation that just happened,
which this person was one of my best friends.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
We've known each other since we were four years old.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
We've traveled together, we went to college together, we were
roommates for a while, and she moved out.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
Of the country.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
She There are also issues around she really didn't like
other women, which didn't sit well with me because I
was like, what about me? Though, I don't feel about this,
and then yeah, yeah, there there's some issues, but I
wanted to keep the friendship going, and so we had
like an email thing that slowly dropped pretty much like
twice a year. We did go on two journeys abroad
(46:22):
during that time, but this was the first year. She
sent me an email last year and was like, oh
my gosh, pandemic, how are you going in the US.
So what's been going on with you? I'm so sorry
I haven't been in contact. I'm really bad about it.
I sent her this whole thing, and I was like,
this is what's going on with fee?
Speaker 1 (46:35):
How are you?
Speaker 3 (46:36):
Don't worry about, you know, being bad contact? I'm just
bad to hear from you. And I never heard from
her again. And this was her first birthday where I
didn't send the like happy birthday thing because I guess
we're done right.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
It's weird too, that situation is weird.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
I wonder if anyone else can relate to this, where
we would have a lot of discussions where she would
like say, this is my problems with you.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
And I.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
I'm someone who tries to be really self aware, especially
like as I've gotten older.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
It wasn't in high school.
Speaker 3 (47:05):
Or whatever, but like, as I've gotten older, sometimes she
would say things where I'm like, am I just being
really obtuse because that doesn't sound like how I've interpreted
these situations at all.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
It's just odd.
Speaker 4 (47:19):
Yeah, if someone is so quick and constantly trying to
tell you you're bad, that would be toxic.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
That's the put down thing.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
She was definitely a friend, where like I was very,
very worried all the time that whatever I said or did,
our friendship was over and that was the end.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
But we did have some wonderful times together and it
does make me sad right.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
And there, there definitely is.
Speaker 4 (47:42):
I think that's the part of the problem is when
you remember the good times mm hmm, and it's been
long enough that you forgot the bad times, you're like, eh,
but it's.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Nice to have those memories.
Speaker 4 (47:53):
And I've always been that type of person who would
say that I love meeting people, even though I'm an
inter because they change your perspective somehow, and you find
something new about yourself in that relationship, and hopefully it's
a good thing.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
And even if it's a bad thing, it's still a
lesson to learn. It's the very least.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
And then as I'm getting to forty, yeah, I only
have time for essential friendship, meaning people who I can
feed into and they could feed into me and we
can come out together as better people. Like it's just
when you get to a certain age, it's harder to
make friends a B.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
I've become more set in.
Speaker 4 (48:29):
My ways as I get older, and it's harder for
me to change my personality to fit.
Speaker 2 (48:34):
You don't get me wrong.
Speaker 4 (48:36):
Reading a room and being able to at least understand
and be compassionate and all of that for sure, But
at the same time, I'm not going to be giddy, happy, sweet,
go lucky girl. That's just not me, right, And I
no longer have time, right or the mental capacity to
try to change my personality to fit into this. I mean,
(48:58):
I feel like I struggled to not just without work
and try to be professional. I don't know whether you know,
like professional is hard for me?
Speaker 3 (49:08):
Yeah, yeah, And I think that's something we all kind
of learn and go through. Is essentially, what is this
friendship giving me? Is it worth the time and energy?
And I know back when I first started and we
were the stuff, I've never told you had the YouTube
channel that was really active. That was one of the
(49:30):
things we heard the most from young listeners especially, was
how do I I'm in a toxic friendship?
Speaker 1 (49:37):
What do I do? So?
Speaker 3 (49:39):
I know that this is something we all have dealt
with and seen, right, So I hope that this helps
in some way.
Speaker 4 (49:46):
Yes, And the good news is there are people out
there who can connect. And there was a survey that
said that one in ten people don't actually have close friends.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
That made me sad because.
Speaker 4 (49:59):
I definitely could tell you you immediately the four people
that I could call if I was in an emergency state.
And that makes me sad to think that someone might
go without that because for sure, as a person who
don't feel close to my family didn't have a family
at one point in time, my friends are my family.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
Yeah, So I.
Speaker 4 (50:17):
Can't imagine what it would be like not to have
people close to me that I could lean on and
know that we'll be there for the times that I
can't be there for myself or that I can't see
the reason to keep going because I've had many of
those times. Yeah, but having friends to truly be there
to hold my hand in the darkest moments. That's been
a lifesaver, literally a lifesaver for me.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
Yes, I totally agree.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
That's very, very, very powerful and I wish that everyone
had it because I think it does make you good.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
Friendships help you make you.
Speaker 3 (50:50):
Better because I have see you and Samantha knows, I've
been on a fan fiction binge.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
I just read a fan fiction where one of.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
The characters was like about to die and realized like
literally no one would come to save him because he's
a terrible person and no friends.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
It's then changed his ways once he survived.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
That sounds like a scrooge.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
It's very very much Yes, yes, don't be a scrooge everyone.
Speaker 4 (51:24):
And if you need friends and you've been listening to
us and count as us friends, please know.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
We are your friends.
Speaker 3 (51:30):
Yes, yes, we really do appreciate the support from all
of you. That is a true statement. And if you
would like to contact us, you can Our email is
Stuff medium, mom Steph at iHeartMedia dot com. You can
find us on Instagram at Stepmo I've never told you
are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always
to our super producer Christina.
Speaker 2 (51:46):
Who is also a friend.
Speaker 3 (51:47):
Yes, and thanks to you for listening steff I never
told you his protection of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
For more podcast from Iheartradiovi.
Speaker 3 (51:53):
Is it the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 4 (52:04):
Yeah,
Stuff Mom Never Told You News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Samantha McVey
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