March 16, 2024 • 46 mins
In this classic episode, SMNTY formally requests your listenership of this tasteful and of course classy discussion on the hot goss and spilling of the tea in Jane Austen's Persuasion.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff.
One ever told you a prediction of iHeartRadio?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And today I thought it would be fun to bring
back the episode we did on persuasion because we just
did Pride and Prejudice and I've loved some of you
have already written in about that.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Really Jane Austen's work.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Well, it was cool because a lot of people wrote
in with like, I don't know if you've heard about
this person who does this, So this person who does
this with it, so that's really cool. But in that
episode we mentioned some history with Jane Austen that I
know we went into a little bit more in depth
in this episode. But you know, I also thought it
would just be fun to go kind of back to
(00:53):
back with these, so please enjoy this classic episode.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I'm not going to steffan never told you production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
And we are continuing with our classics theme month of September.
I feel like that goes with fall and Pumpkin Spies
if you like it, ask curiosity. Have you read other
Jane Austen books?
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I don't know if I actually this is my first
Jane Austen book. I a Jane Austen movie.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
I had just popped your bubble.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
That was really gross. Sorry.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
So, yeah, we're talking about Jane Austen. And because this
is probably my favorite book of Jane Austen. As much
as I love Pride and Prejudice and I love all
the others, Persuasion is I think my favorite of her books.
It's probably one of the smaller ones of her books.
I can't quite remember. It's not that long overread, but
I love everything about it. There are a lot to
(01:57):
be said. We know this is very old fashioned, talk
about the themes as if we were from the early
eighteen hundreds, late seventeen hundreds. Maybe I don't know, but yes,
it was something. Jane Austen is one of my favorites.
I love her wit, I love her sarcasm. Everything still
seems so nice and gentle. And then you read back
(02:17):
and you're like, oh, she just insulted that person. That's amazing.
That's the level. That is my personality in itself. And
there's all two people who deserve it. That's even better.
Like her characters stand up to people, stand up to society.
We're going to talk about all of this now again. Yes,
(02:38):
we've talked a little b about Jane Austen before and
the works. I still really want to do this Jane
Austen tour that we had talked about previously with our
guest who came on and that's what she does. And
I'm like, oh my god, why am I not there?
Like touring bath. I need to see this. But I
guess as we can't do that, we'll just take a
tour with the book, right, We'll just go with our
(03:00):
imagination of what this may be.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Anyone who has a hookup, you know, calling here, I
need to be.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
There though, that's what that's the same here. But yeah,
So we wanted to do a quick run through of
Jane Austin's biographical history. It seems, according to many of
the different articles about her life, that she, like others,
used her life experiences in her novels. Her stories are
often told in wit and sarcasm, and was a statement
of the unfair rules and standards placed on women. And
(03:32):
though her novels typically end with happy endings, with her
heroines getting married to well situated men for love, and
her own life was not so perfectly put together, Jane
Austin never married. She did get engaged once but ended
it because she was not in love with the man.
And then there was another man, many who called him
her first love, who was ushered away from her essentially
(03:55):
like take it away, because they were like, this is
not going to work out. She has no money. You
need money. So he married full wealth and they never
see each other again. If you've ever seen the movie
Being Jane Austin, they actually do a little bit of
the back and forth. It's actually a really good movie.
I liked it. But yeah, so it's really sad overall.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, geez, It's not like she wasn't prolific and successful, but.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
It took a little while. They didn't know her name
till after she died.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're going to talk about that, right, yes, Okay.
So though Jane's work was published in her lifetime, her
work was not as appreciated then as it is now.
She was successful after her brother, taking on the title
of her literary agent, sent her novel sent in Sensibility,
to be published in eighteen thirteen, and later she would
go on to publish Pride and Prejudice, which was also
(04:43):
a success. And yeah, all the while her names were
not attached to the publishing of these stories, but instead
it was authored as a lady. It wasn't until after
her death that she was recognized for her work. Her
brother Henry and sister Cassandra pushed for her last two novels,
(05:04):
North Ainger Abbey and Persuasion, to be published after her death.
I do think this is interesting because we have talked
about this in the writing of romance novels and the
writing of horror and science fiction with women in these
early days, about publishing not with their name but still
(05:24):
getting these followings. And one of my very fun, favorite
fun facts about Jane Austen is she had the first
one of the first fan fiction groups called the Austinites,
yes well they.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Were apparently was the jay Knights as well, I believe
was the name for some of our fans, and it was.
She actually did have a following during her times of writing.
People loved her book initially, though her father, before he died,
tried to get one of her books published and he
couldn't do it. It's not Gnomes supposedly that she whether or
(06:00):
not she knew that her father tried to do this
for her because he loved her book. There was another
publisher who held onto a book I believe called Susan,
and since then he would not publish it. He just
left it on his desk. She sent him a letter
like you needed to give it back or publish this
or something, and she initialed it as mad because she
(06:21):
was very angry with me, and like this whole thing
went back and forth that he would publish it, but
she would have to pay ten pounds. They did not
have it because they were not well off. After the
father died, they moved around everywhere trying to find a place.
Finally settled into her brother's cottage near her land and
was able to do that. And apparently her writing, most
like everybody else, went with her moods. So she wasn't
(06:44):
in a good place, she couldn't write, And when she
got into a good place she wrote and it was beautiful,
So it was pretty interesting. Of course, we're not talking
too much more about the characters of the book. Many
people do reflect. They do look at her family and
their silliness and their hot hypochondria, like all of these
things that we see in each one of her books.
So you will see a character that is silly as
(07:07):
she would say, and ridiculous and not so smart, or
you would see one that was always sick and needy
and someone needed to take care of her. And a
lot of these were apparently based on her mom from
what I gather, but we don't know this to the
point that apparently when the mom read Mansfield Park, she
really felt that the mother character was cruelly treated, and
then that the character, the heroine, was just ridiculously and
(07:31):
insipid what she said. So a lot of those things.
But they did love her writing enough to give her
time to do it and realize that she was successful
at it and was able to get some money from it.
Now when they weren't successful, they had to pay it back,
which was a whole different conversation in itself. So there's
a lot of things that went on. She has some
unfinished novels that people have tried to complete, including the
(07:53):
author I believe of Bridgerton. She tried to complete it,
but have yet to be seen as successes. I've not
seen anything that's come off. It's like this is it.
Austin died at the young age of forty one, before
being recognized against for her accomplishments and a lot of
who she was or what we could have learned, is
lost to us because letters were burned and her reputation
(08:15):
was glossed over by her family. Literally, Henry was trying
to make her look like the most unpeachable, amazing woman
in the world. Pictures of her apparently were altered so
that she would be the perfect beauty. All of these
things in order to sell the books or sell her
reputation with the books. But of course we do know
that she was actually really upbeat individual who had a
(08:36):
great personality, and she would advise others to not fall
to the outdated standards of marriage by seeking love and wit,
which aparently she told us to a niece. She did
not seem to regret saying no to the dude who
had a lot of money. She would have been wealthy.
They would have been taken care of. But yet, you know,
which is what we see in her works today, except
(08:59):
with happier endings, obviously obviously. So, now that you know
a little bit about Jane Austen, let's dig into persuasions.
Are you ready?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Oh yes, are you ready?
Speaker 3 (09:13):
All right? So this was written and originally titled The Elliotts,
and it was later edited and renamed as Persuasion. The novel,
as we mentioned before, was one of Austin's last, and
many argue is one of her more sophisticated works, like
she finally figured had her style, she had these mature
words again opinions of others, and though many argue that
(09:35):
her unfinished works could have been just as iconic, if
not more. In a statement and commentary on society at
the time, apparently she was writing a book about snake
oil dealers, essentially about people trying to bring people in
based on this water healing that was happening at the time.
So could have been an amazing book. And I think
(09:56):
people really really wish that they had been finished. Of course,
not her fault, and that's why people are trying to
finish it.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
That makes me sad, all right.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
But in this book we are introduced to the Elliots,
a family who has come upon some hard times, partially
due to the main character's father, Sir Wallace Elliott, who
is a vain and stubborn man that clings to titles
and status more than anything else. But before we get there,
we are quickly informed that Anne, a sweet pleasing young
(10:29):
woman who is the main character, I would say had
fallen in love at a young age with a man
named Frederick Wentworth who would soon set sail.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
As a naval man.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Let's talk about the navy in this one. But this
match was opposed by her family as Frederick had no
money or status at the time, and again that was
really important back then, but especially to her.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Father, and Anne was persuaded.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
By her closest friend, inventor Lady Russell, and her family
to turn down the proposal, which would haunt her for
years to come.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah. Years later, we see Anne alone and having to
take care of her remaining family after the death of
our sweet mother. With the debt and financial issues plaguing
the family, her father is persuaded to let the house
or rent it out Kellynch Hall, while he and his
seemingly favorite child Elizabeth, decide to move to Beth because
you know, it's cheaper and of course it would be
(11:26):
they would be of upstanding citizenship and so higher class
in a small town like Bath, and though she doesn't
want to and also prepares to go to Bath with
the family until she's asked to remain near her home
with her youngest sister Mary A hypochondriac married to Charles
Musgraves and their children for a little while, and we
(11:46):
find out later that Charles Musgroves originally asked Anne to
marry him. Right, that doesn't happen and he marries Mary instead.
So here we meet Charles and his family, his father, mother,
and two sisters, Henriette and Louise, who are very fond
of Anne and oftentimes wishes Anne had married Charles. Yes,
(12:07):
Anne becomes the sounding board between all of them, of
the mini complaints and Elma's and all of the such
so unfortunately she has to be the nice one that
is the middle ground for people to come to and
try to be rational. Soon after we meet the Crofts,
who have least kellynch Hall, Admiral Croft and his wife Sophia.
(12:28):
Sophia happens to be oh, the sister of Frederick Wentworth.
Oh No, which opens up the novel to the upcoming
high jinks that we're about to talk about.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Mm hmm, all right, So soon enters Wentworth, who is
now Captain Wentworth, rich and accomplished and apparently still very handsome.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Still very handsome, you gotta remember that, yes, and.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Is also obviously still hurt at being rejected by Anne,
and even comments on how Anne has quote been.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
So altered since he last saw her.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Oh and now being twenty seven, Anne is seen as
sort of a spinster. Oh no, the worst twenty seven,
Oh no. And he seems to be interested in both
of the young Musgrove ladies, and they are very interested
in him too, even at the expense of Charles Hayter,
(13:23):
who is trying to court Henrietta at the time. And
as she and the Musgroves and Crofts all go on
a lovely trip to Lyme Regis, we see Wentworth seemingly pursue.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
These young women even more.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Here we meet captains Harville and Benwick, who are friends
of Captain Wentworth. Benwick was at this point mourning the
death of his fiance and seemed to be getting close
to Anne, as they had a common love of writing
and poetry. But soon, of course, more drama occurs, at
which time Louisa falls while jumping from a seawall, causing
her to get a concussion and causing her to she
(13:57):
needs to be under constant surveillance, which happens to be
Yes the care under the watchful eye of Captain Wentworth
and the Harville's family who lived there. So she has
this injury and he's like, well, I've got to look
out for her. Then I got to make sure she covers.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
He feels very guilty because obviously he didn't stop her.
And Ann soon returns to be with her father and
sister in Beth after that incident, and there she meets
with William Elliott, who is she had actually had contact
with at the at Lime. So we see this moment
and apparently at that at the beach, she looked really beautiful.
(14:34):
Of course, I guess it affected her. Now she's more
beautiful than ever. I do think it's quite funny because
we'll talk about this in a bit, but the fact
that she they keep commenting on how some people get
more attractive when when as they get older, but it's rare, like, yeah,
I like that, this is what's happening to our dear Anne.
(14:58):
And yeah. So she meets with William Elliott, a cousin
and the heir to the fortune of their family, who
once was supposed to marry Elizabeth. I think it was
intended that way, but rejected both her and the family
to marry another rich woman, which did not go over
well with Sir Elliott, obviously, because that was completely slighting
of his favorite daughter. All of those things, and that
(15:20):
wife dies and so now he is a rich widower
coming background. But he soon changed their minds with his
charm and attention, and even Lady Russell, who was hopeful
that he would marry Anne, saw that he was in
good standing and was approving of him. But however, Anne
was suspicious of him. It was too much. But while
(15:42):
in Bath and was able to reconnect with our friend
Missus Smith, who was a widow and was ill at
the time and unfortunately very poor because things had gone
wrong with her husband's fortune. There she and Missus Smith
are able to reconnect and talk about the gossip around Bath.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yes, and soon all the Musgroves and Crofts decided to
come to Bath as well.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Oh, dear.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Anne has learned that Louisa is now engaged to Captain
Benwick and that Henrietta was now engaged to Charles Hayter,
and all seemed happy and well with them. And then
of course Anne runs into Captain Wentworth and has an
interesting They have an interesting exchange together. However, at the
same time, mister Elliott, which by the way, this was
(16:27):
very like game of prones to me where I'm like,
I need a chart to cheap track of who is who?
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Okay, Elliott's going around.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
I know, I know, said Sir Elliott.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yes, yes, yes, yes not her father, her cousin was
trying to wiggle his way into her affections, causing Wentworth
to be both jealous and deterred. And it was soon
after that Anne discovered from her friend, Missus Smith, how
deceptive and uncaring mister Elliott really was, so her suspicions
were correct, and she resolved to let Lady Russell know
(16:58):
of his character. But before she could, she and Wentworth
were able to reconnect and soon became engaged. Mister Elliott leaves,
taking Missus Clay, a woman who was trying to seduce
her way into the Elliott family. Was a friend of Elizabeth.
By the way, Yes, and Anne and Captain Wentworth get married.
(17:19):
Lady Russell admits her mistake and accepts the couple as
new friends.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Yes, and all of this to say also, Miss Smith
had connections with mister Elliott, who was not great, and
she was trying to get someone to help her get
her fortunes because there was a little bit of money
out there and Captain Wentworth helped her and she was
able to live and everybody was happy. Everybody was happy.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah, yeay. Although I kind of that whole Missus Clay thing.
I was kind of like Damn Okay.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Who has two children, who was the daughter of the
lawyer that helped get all these things in place. There's
so many characters we left out. I'm sorry, but you
should go and read the book. It's short. If you
like these things, go for it. I will say I
(18:18):
tried to watch the new movie with Dakota Johnson. I
could not get through it because I know what they
were trying to do, but it was not working for
me as a lover of this classic in the way
it is formed to have Dakota Johnson portray Anne Elliott
as a bumbling, clumsy woman who brags about herself and
(18:42):
is just bitter, which is her whole thing is like
to be better. At the very beginning, she talks about
losing him, being a little angry about what was happening,
and then all she does is drink, sit in the corner,
lay face on the bed, like she takes baths by
herself like. This is how it introduces an I'm like.
Throughout the entire book, Jane austen portrays Anne as someone
(19:05):
who understands why and there's no way she could have
married him at that point and be where she was
today as happy and being glad that it worked out
this way no matter what. And then her whole character again,
she's a little too pristine, too smart, but like it's
to be unseen in the corner, and trying not to
(19:26):
bring any ripples about being a little heartbroken that he
seems to have I'm not forgiven her and is trying
to move on with these other women type of things.
In the movie, at the very beginning of the scene
where I talked about how Charles Musgroves says was supposed
to had originally proposed to Anne. In the book, the
sisters revealed to Captain Wentworth that he had originally proposed
(19:48):
and they had wished that she had gotten married to him.
In the movie, Anne blurts it out at the dinner
table in front of everyone, to everybody's chocolate. She proposed
to me first, and everybody was like, what, so that
is that? And I was like, absolutely not, absolutely not.
I can't do this. I can't do this. So for
(20:09):
those of you who may have seen the movie and
they actually liked it.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
There's a grimace on Samantha's face, but she's trying to
power through.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
I'm just like, let me know what I missed out,
maybe to rectify and come back to it, because after
that scene, I was like, no, I can't do this.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, yeah, that's fair. It's fair.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I mean you've said before, you've got your your versions
that you like Harry passionate about this.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
When you alter it so greatly, it's just becomes This
entire movie is supposed to be a lot of cringe
moments like oh oh, like she makes fun of him
and he walks in to hear her make fun of
her him. That does not happen. There's a moment where
again she screams like she's supposed to be across the way.
(20:52):
She screams his name because he's talking to a girl
the girls, and she's jealous, and then she hides away
underneath it because she yells his name and everybody's like,
what like all of these things it's supposed to be
like the cringe worthy level, and I'm like, oh, I
don't even like that. Yeah, when I do, like a
movie so maybe, And the take is like I think
(21:13):
it's supposed to be a modern take back then because
they rank people about you're a ten here, but they're
that type of thing. So I think that's what they
were trying to do with it, to make this new
type of thing. But I'm like that works. I feel
like more so with like Clueless or ten things that
I hate about you, where they flip it to be
like taking the old tail into a modern take. Sure,
(21:34):
but try to do a modern take to in the
old tail in that timeline doesn't feel like it works.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, I think it's difficult to pull off for sure.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
For sure.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I say that as I still kind of like Night's
Till and that's a whole different movie and they do that.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, oh again, it can be done, Yeah, just not
easily done.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
It's not easily done. It's okay now that I've printed
about that themes, all right, So of course one of
the big themes is women in society and their role
in society at that point and time, because all throughout
Austin's books you will see that as the main plot
(22:16):
of all of them is trying to find a good marriage.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Yeah, and I think this is one of the things that.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Can be easily forgotten, but at this time it was
a huge deal for like, that was your purpose, especially
in this where they were located. And the timing of
this was as a woman, you have to have a
pretty upstanding, polite society reputation and then you will be
(22:48):
married off and what is hopefully a financially good decision
for the woman and the family.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
And it was, I mean, it was a huge it
was very important.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
You couldn't known anything like I mean with what happened
to Jane austen Or she died poor, even though she'd
written all this stuff that is so successful now, but
she didn't get married, and so it was seen as
a failure. And I think that that can sometimes get lost.
And I did enjoy that the importance of it was
(23:17):
still there, but it was like underlaid with all of
the slayers of gossip, kind of like pettiness and a
lot of stuff about class, which is pretty common for
these kinds of books as well. But yeah, I mean,
that's the whole thing is like her sister's trying to
(23:38):
get married. Her other sister did get married. She's got
to get married because their father went into debt, like
it's all of the stuff about well, I got to
do this for the family and for money essentially.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Right, so essentially, And I don't know, because I don't
know customarily how correct we are. I'm assuming it is
because it was her time frame. But I think with
Emma they had this conversation about being a spencer with money,
you're able to do that more so than being a
spencer not without money, that you e will literally die essentially,
(24:12):
and that the idea that if it's taken away. So
we see that often, and we saw that in many
of the books Pride and Prejudice. If there's no male heir,
it goes to the next male heir, which could be
a cousin or someone who will turn you out. There
is a book, I can't remember which one where they
actually do turn out the family where they're like, uh,
the I think it was like an uncle or a
cousin who inherits it and he had promised to help them,
(24:36):
but he doesn't. He chooses not to, and so they
go to the situation. Yeah, this is that conversation. And
I feel like I'm talking about her as fine nour.
For Austin, it was so important that she fall for
love that she was willing to sacrifice all of that
to be there, And it doesn't sound like anybody held
her responsible and or were bitter towards her because of that.
(24:56):
Like her only sister, Cassandra, she had five brothers. Again,
she did get help from one of the brothers and
apparently they lost their money in a scheme, not a scheme,
but a thing that they invested in with another brother.
There's a whole different level of things that were happening here,
but it is it's like she stuck to her guns
in her books as well, but she saw the happier
(25:17):
ending and was hoping for the happier ending, which is
kind of the tragic bit that that happened that she
didn't get to any of that. And of course, yeah,
money was a huge thing, which I don't understand how
money worked at that point in time. Was nobody like
nobody seems to do things, but they all have money,
Like I'm very confused by that in itself.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah, well, I think that's where a lot of the
like class comes in of kind of inherited money or
marrying into money or both. But it's also important to
remember at this time, you know, love might have been
a thing in marriages, but often it was an economic right.
Originally it was much more of like a financial decision
(25:59):
than anything to do with love.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Which makes sense even today to me, not to that extent,
but I'm like, you know what, maybe they're not far off.
Maybe that shouldn't be a bad thing, because emotions change,
all emotions change. But I also found it funny that
she when she wrote the lines for her father about
how titles are not earned, accomplishments are not earned, but
(26:23):
you're born with it, and how could these traditions change.
I feel like we hear that today in different forms
of like essentially privileged of like oh well I got this,
you got this from your daddy, stop it. And how
you think that's class. That's not, that's not class, stop it.
But that that was pretty funny, and I think she did,
of course, she wrote that on purpose to talk about
this absurdity about the ideal of class and rank, and
(26:47):
it was a beautiful. Her writing is so good.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
It's just so good.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Of course, when we talk about all that with marriage
and responsibility, we talk about families, whether it's the good,
the bad, and unfortunately just what it is, the undeniable
they are here, that's what they are. I feel like
again her painting of her mother, possibly in the characters
of Brian Prejudice, she does this with the ridiculous mother.
(27:14):
In the character of her sister Mary, she does this
of this ridiculous woman who was just obviously privileged and
over the top spoiled and really just self absorbed character
and what that looks like, and how she portrays them
in the book. Of course we know they're not all
that one dimensional, but she does that as a comic
(27:35):
relief but also probably a stress relief.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
I'm guessing yeah, yeah, And I think it's one of
those things where I imagine most of us can relate
to this, even though it was written so long ago.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
That you have the family member who's always kind of
like needing you to help them.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
For whatever reason.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
You've got the you feel responsible for, like perhaps somebody
older in your life and their financial security, and you've
got the like one you're always being compared to. Perhaps,
Like there's just a bunch of family relationships that I
think a lot of us can relate to are kind
of are like, oh, I have something sort of like
that in my life.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Maybe it's not even family it can be friends as well,
but like.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
And the whole idea of her I feel like when
you compare and to the rest of her family, it
does and this might be Austin kind of again, yeah,
having that stress relief. It does feel like they all
were using her for something, whether it's her dad, like financially,
her younger sister to be like the person she can
(28:44):
complain to you about everything, her older sister to compare
like I'm better than you, all those kinds of things,
and kind of trying to be the diplomat.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
And then you've.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Got this mister Elliott cousin fellow at the ends just
kind of using them and what seems a very callous
way to just secure the inheritance. So yeah, I mean
there's like those are kind of the negative aspects. There
were certainly some positive interactions between all of them that
(29:17):
were fun to see, but it is that that tension
and family and how we treat each other and use
each other was very apparent.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
I do think it's funny that she is kind of
one of those like, ugh, this family, what can you do?
Like time of situation, and she has a amongst a
lot of the books that she does. I also do
appreciate and I thought it was really hilarious the way
they talk about the dead brother of the Musgroves. They
(29:48):
just literally like, thank God he's dead, like he really
was useless outside of just dying. I mean, he's a
good thing he died, but we're gonna pretend like we
really mourn him, miss him. But I was just like, wow, Jay,
And I'm not sure who in your life, but to
be fair, and this is I've read an interesting bit
about the fact that she did have another brother who
was institutionalized and then after at thirteen years old, after
(30:11):
he was pretty much given away, they never talked about
him again, they never reached out to him. And she
did that too. She was a part of that, not caring,
not noticing he died at seventy one, No one went
to his funeral, no one cared like it was pretty sad.
So I'm wondering if that was how she felt, which
is awful, which is awful, awful, awful and meaning care
like caroless, it does kind of put a stain on
who she is and like and I get it in
(30:33):
that sense of like during that time and age, that's
what you did, still really callous and cold. But I
wondered if that was kind of that mentioning. Again, I
could have been reading way too much into this, and
I have a feeling awesome. Fans may come after me
for saying that, but there was there's this connection of
this one brother who kind of just was shunned because
(30:56):
whether it was mental health stuff, whether it was physical stuff,
whether it was whatever. He lived to be seventy one.
I mean that's amazing. Yeah at that point time, Yeah,
that I'm like, okay, makes me wonder because they talked
about him having quote unquote fits you know, we don't
know what that means, and then that that's what happened
(31:18):
with his brother. No one acknowledged him, no one said
him money, no one talked to him, no one reached
out to him. Like it makes me think a lot
about like what was the point of this one character
that she brought in, because I don't really hear much
of that callousness of someone dying like they did in
this way of like outside of like oh this man
was useless, this ex husband was useless, he was mean,
(31:41):
or all these things like that kind of thing. But
that was kind of interesting. So I don't know if
that was something poigted with her own family take. It
was one of her last books. She was getting sick.
She apparently had a lot of ailments, so that could
have been just as that so being being seen as
inconvenient or whatever whatnot. I found that interesting. Again, may
(32:01):
got too dark and too deep into her history for
that one, but yeah, no. Of course, as a part
of anything else wealth talking about wealth. Constant talk about
wealth and money being a motivator, whether it's who you
married or who you didn't marry, is all throughout her book.
And of course her constant back thought is I can't
(32:21):
marry this person or I have to marry this person
because of money. And of course it was at that
point in time your livelihood depended on whether or not
you could provide for yourself and your family.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Right right, It is like the biggest driver for a
lot of the decisions that were made. And I mean
it starts with I thought this was really interesting how
it begins, because I, as someone who had read it,
it kind of starts with this interesting portrait of Sir
Walter Elliott and how who he is and how he
(32:54):
got into debt and how he's so proud he doesn't
want anyone to know that he's in this trouble.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
How can they like keep up airs as they say?
Speaker 2 (33:03):
And then you get introduced to his daughters, and I
didn't know who the main character was, and originally they're
kind of paint and it is like this background like
shee's okay, and so I didn't know what was going on.
But it's like, right from the jump is the impetus
of we need money. We want to at least look
(33:27):
like we have money. We want to be able to,
you know, appear like we're high society or whatever HI,
And that determines, you know, like where they move and
their relationships with people, and not just like marriage, but
like friends, like who you're gonna hang out with, who
you will be seen with, all those kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
So it was.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Incredibly huge scene and important to everybody, right right.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
I actually really like you to talk about them having they
can't be associated be friends with unless they have high money,
which was the whole like the thought process of Elizabeth
trying to invite people that she doesn't want to be seen,
but they should, They of their standing should be just
happy with an afternoon drink game session instead of a
whole mill because they don't want to. First, she doesn't
(34:20):
want to be seen as poor because they can't do
that because they only have one or two servants and
they need more to be seen as high class. But
at the same time they're not deserving even though they
have more money than than Elizabeth and Sir Wallace that
it's quite funny, that dichotomy of her like, but we're
still higher ranking than them, so we don't want this
to happen.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Like it's quite funny.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
And then she gets jaded and all alone.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
I know.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
That's I'm telling you that whole Miss Clay thing sent
me for a loop.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Well I knew it was.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
I knew because she was kind of like I knew
she was being set up with the father, but I thought.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
She wasn't being set up. She was set herself up
with the father, right, She's trying to scheme her way in.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
I was hoping they'd be real friends, that's all. That's all.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
There's one or two scandalous women about, and she is
the one.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
For this one.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Sugg said, her life is sad again because she's like,
just try to make it. But that's okay because with
her being the mistress of mister Elliott, she owned that
home and therefore she has made herself a mistress.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
I know.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
So she did it, she did it.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
She did. I don't want to own it. Well that
he does now well I know.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, And I mean we're on the flip side. We
do see, is it, missus Smith? Like we see what
happens when you don't have money for women too, And
it was not.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Her fault, and there was money there and she couldn't
get to it unless a man, you know, vouched for
her and helped her. It was a whole thing like
she's now settled, but for the time being she wasn't,
as she was destined and had one or two friends,
and no one wanted to help her except for the
nurse friend. And then it turned out it's partially this,
mister Eliot's fault that you can't live.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Yeah, I feel like a lot of evil, a lot
of the stuff, not all of it which we're about
to talk about, but a lot of it was like
your dad's in debt. So now this woman has to
suffer or like right, this man and now this woman
has to suffer.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Right Oftentimes that we see that again and again and again,
and that's what Jane's like, don't go with a false
man because he's not gonna leave you happy. Yeah, And
(36:52):
as the title would suggest, persuasion are being persuaded or
even manipulated, if you want to go and step further,
as a big theme throughout and as the result of
why she's in this situation or anybody is in this
situation in general, because she is trying to please everyone
(37:12):
else but herself.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Yeah, which I you know, I'm several layers removed from
this time period obviously, but I really related to that.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
I've dated people.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
I was kind of like because I thought like society
was telling me too, like you should do it, give
it it go. And so in this particular case, like
we see and you know, pretty happy with this guy, Fredrick.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
She was quite young, but she was pretty happy with him.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Announced announced this engagement, and like Lady Russell in particular was.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Like no, no, no, and I'm gonna I'm.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Gonna talk you out of it, and everybody was against it,
and so she kind of so she she broke it off,
and as you said, like perhaps that was for the best,
like they could both mature, he could come back at
a better time. But it was something that she was
basically kind of bullied almost like no, no, no, this
(38:08):
is not her her decision and her agency almost was
just kind of taken away, like no, that's bad match,
you don't.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Want to do that.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
And she really respected Lady Russell, so she was like, oh, okay, right, right, So.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Lady Russell was the friend of the mother and very
big confidante to the home. She really helped them out
so many times. It was really kind of funny. Also,
Sir Wallace's description of Lady Russell was like, yeah, but
she's not pretty and she's getting old, so no, like
that's kind of that's what his thing was. But yeah,
I think it's interesting because yes, this is the beginning.
(38:41):
We understand that she has been talked out of being
in love essentially with this man who has no fortune,
who has no name, so therefore she doesn't do it.
But then we see that later on that people trying
to do the same things again and trying to turn
her to a different man who may have been like
seemingly better. All of these conversations, whether it's trying to
(39:02):
persuade one person to be one person go to this place, like,
all of these things are happening, and she's finally coming
into her own and doing her own work to figure
out what she wants and truly what she wants and
why she wants it, or why she doesn't trust this
person or whatever whatnot, instead of just believing that they're
of a good character and or not. So I find
(39:23):
that fun. Throughout we also see the other works of
people try to manipulate her into other situations, whether it's
Mary manipulating her to be like, you need to stay
with me and take care of the children, and that works,
she does it, and then all these other things happen,
and then you also see I don't know if it's
(39:44):
a manipulation. Quite like, we don't know if Captain Wentworth
actually pushed Benwick to Louisa so he could no longer
have to actually marry her. I don't know. He says
it's a good fortune and it just happened to happen,
so you know, okay, seems suspect.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, as I said earlier,
like a lot of what people's actions were in regards
to Anne were of all about them. So like even
with Charles mister Musgrove and everyone being like we wish
you had married him. They want that, not necessarily because
they like really like Anne, but they like Anne better Mary.
(40:28):
But yeah, all of these kind of machinations and manipulations
around relationships.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
And I think it's what you said earlier that was.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
A really good point of her learning to trust herself
of not just like, oh, this guy is suspicious. She
gets to the bottom of why he's suspicious. She trust,
she feels it, but then she gets to the bottom
of it. And it's the same with Frederick, where she's like, oh,
I still really like this guy, and just kind of
like accepting, you know what, that's that's what I want,
(40:58):
that's what I'm right about everybody else.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Yeah, and yeah, I appreciate that. And then also Lady
Russell being persuaded to understand she was wrong.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
She was wrong, she was very.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Wrong about both of these men, and then realizing having
to admit that and coming to understanding that they're in
a happy place. But again and throughout it's like, I
am not bitter about this. I don't think this was
out of malice, And I think this worked out to
the perfect timing, which is probably the other theme to
this is like timing for everything even though it caused
(41:29):
a lot of heartache and a lot of doubt, it
finally came round to working itself out, and of course
she's in a better situation because he is rich continuing
to be rich. Apparently this was during the the French War. Anyway,
it was barely around that time. And you know, interesting
fun fact also is when one of the places that
(41:51):
Janelson and her family had to move to was a
naval town, and there was insinuation that they had a
really hard time and may have been harassed by those
around her because they were not of they didn't have money,
so therefore they were treated poorly. Not sure, but she
seems to give a good review of the navy and
those of the navy, so I don't know, it would
(42:13):
not imply that maybe it was just a setup that
she needed. Who knows, because again this does go to
a lot of her own life where she seemingly uses
the rich character to the guy that she turned down
to being in love with, the lower character who needed
money but came up on money. All of these things
(42:35):
that happened to be perfect for these conversations. Apparently her
father was a reverend, so we have conversations about that
in some of the books that she writes, So there's
a lot to be said and how she takes her
own personal situations and put it into the books. But yeah,
(42:55):
I really, I really loved this book. How did you feel?
Speaker 1 (42:59):
It was a fun read?
Speaker 2 (43:00):
It was a fun read. Like I said, I wish
I had had a chart. I think I figured out
when mister Elliott showed up.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
I was so confused. It's also because of like.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
My modern day mind where I'm like, never would you
marry family members, which is not true of the time, right,
But god, I was so confused.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
But I did enjoy it. It did kind of crack me up.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
I know I mentioned it earlier, but I was like,
you know, you add dragons in here. This is Game
of Thrones. This is the same thing, a little bit
more violence of dramas.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Dragons violence, and less happy endings. I think maybe maybe
family drama.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
I was like, there's a lot of drama and a
lot of not as funny equips as you like since
start here in Game of Thrones that I've maybe that's
just me maybe, But yeah, I love these books and
it always makes me feel cozy and like is feel
sentimental in itself. I still argue with people about whether
(43:57):
or not as feminists because people were like, they just
get mad, they all settle in and all, you know,
give in to marriage, And I'm like, but yeah, this
is the standard. And during her time she was rebellious,
and her own life she was actually rebellious did not
end well. But it's okay because she accomplished a lot,
as we see, unfortunately not during that time. We wish
(44:19):
we could give it all the flowers. Although she did
get money for it. She did get paid, and she
did get some fame and acclaim for it as loving
the book, not necessarily her, but yeah, I think it's
it's such a great take. There's so many things to
learn from it as you look back on what the
traditions were and understanding where she was and she was
fighting society with these books and trying to talk about
(44:43):
how these standards are absurd, and class and rank was absurd,
and how for women it means nothing.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Yeah almost, yeah, yeah, And I think with her her
woody equips as you say, like you see that you
see that signing through of this commentary on how absurd
and ridiculous a lot of all of this.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
Is she's not quiet about it, and I love no.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Mm hmmm. It was really fun. It was really fun.
Maybe we'll do another one in the future.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
Yes, yes, I mean we want to do the whole
damn Prime Prejudice BBC series. I'm down.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
I would love it. I think it'd be great.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Oh my god, and I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
Perfect it's our next the whole month of content out.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
I would I would love it. I think it'd be great.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Well, look forward to that, listeners, and in the meantime,
as always, if you have any suggestions for book clubs,
movie picks, or any any topic at all, really, you
can email us at Stephania mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast
or on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
Thanks, as always to our super borders of Christina.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
Oh Christina, I need your opinions about Jane Austen.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
Yes please, and thanks to you for listening Stuffan Ever
Told You?
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Protective of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Where you listen to your favorite shows
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff.
One ever told you a prediction of iHeartRadio?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And today I thought it would be fun to bring
back the episode we did on persuasion because we just
did Pride and Prejudice and I've loved some of you
have already written in about that.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Really Jane Austen's work.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Well, it was cool because a lot of people wrote
in with like, I don't know if you've heard about
this person who does this, So this person who does
this with it, so that's really cool. But in that
episode we mentioned some history with Jane Austen that I
know we went into a little bit more in depth
in this episode. But you know, I also thought it
would just be fun to go kind of back to
(00:53):
back with these, so please enjoy this classic episode.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I'm not going to steffan never told you production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
And we are continuing with our classics theme month of September.
I feel like that goes with fall and Pumpkin Spies
if you like it, ask curiosity. Have you read other
Jane Austen books?
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I don't know if I actually this is my first
Jane Austen book. I a Jane Austen movie.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
I had just popped your bubble.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
That was really gross. Sorry.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
So, yeah, we're talking about Jane Austen. And because this
is probably my favorite book of Jane Austen. As much
as I love Pride and Prejudice and I love all
the others, Persuasion is I think my favorite of her books.
It's probably one of the smaller ones of her books.
I can't quite remember. It's not that long overread, but
I love everything about it. There are a lot to
(01:57):
be said. We know this is very old fashioned, talk
about the themes as if we were from the early
eighteen hundreds, late seventeen hundreds. Maybe I don't know, but yes,
it was something. Jane Austen is one of my favorites.
I love her wit, I love her sarcasm. Everything still
seems so nice and gentle. And then you read back
(02:17):
and you're like, oh, she just insulted that person. That's amazing.
That's the level. That is my personality in itself. And
there's all two people who deserve it. That's even better.
Like her characters stand up to people, stand up to society.
We're going to talk about all of this now again. Yes,
(02:38):
we've talked a little b about Jane Austen before and
the works. I still really want to do this Jane
Austen tour that we had talked about previously with our
guest who came on and that's what she does. And
I'm like, oh my god, why am I not there?
Like touring bath. I need to see this. But I
guess as we can't do that, we'll just take a
tour with the book, right, We'll just go with our
(03:00):
imagination of what this may be.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Anyone who has a hookup, you know, calling here, I
need to be.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
There though, that's what that's the same here. But yeah,
So we wanted to do a quick run through of
Jane Austin's biographical history. It seems, according to many of
the different articles about her life, that she, like others,
used her life experiences in her novels. Her stories are
often told in wit and sarcasm, and was a statement
of the unfair rules and standards placed on women. And
(03:32):
though her novels typically end with happy endings, with her
heroines getting married to well situated men for love, and
her own life was not so perfectly put together, Jane
Austin never married. She did get engaged once but ended
it because she was not in love with the man.
And then there was another man, many who called him
her first love, who was ushered away from her essentially
(03:55):
like take it away, because they were like, this is
not going to work out. She has no money. You
need money. So he married full wealth and they never
see each other again. If you've ever seen the movie
Being Jane Austin, they actually do a little bit of
the back and forth. It's actually a really good movie.
I liked it. But yeah, so it's really sad overall.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, geez, It's not like she wasn't prolific and successful, but.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
It took a little while. They didn't know her name
till after she died.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're going to talk about that, right, yes, Okay.
So though Jane's work was published in her lifetime, her
work was not as appreciated then as it is now.
She was successful after her brother, taking on the title
of her literary agent, sent her novel sent in Sensibility,
to be published in eighteen thirteen, and later she would
go on to publish Pride and Prejudice, which was also
(04:43):
a success. And yeah, all the while her names were
not attached to the publishing of these stories, but instead
it was authored as a lady. It wasn't until after
her death that she was recognized for her work. Her
brother Henry and sister Cassandra pushed for her last two novels,
(05:04):
North Ainger Abbey and Persuasion, to be published after her death.
I do think this is interesting because we have talked
about this in the writing of romance novels and the
writing of horror and science fiction with women in these
early days, about publishing not with their name but still
(05:24):
getting these followings. And one of my very fun, favorite
fun facts about Jane Austen is she had the first
one of the first fan fiction groups called the Austinites,
yes well they.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Were apparently was the jay Knights as well, I believe
was the name for some of our fans, and it was.
She actually did have a following during her times of writing.
People loved her book initially, though her father, before he died,
tried to get one of her books published and he
couldn't do it. It's not Gnomes supposedly that she whether or
(06:00):
not she knew that her father tried to do this
for her because he loved her book. There was another
publisher who held onto a book I believe called Susan,
and since then he would not publish it. He just
left it on his desk. She sent him a letter
like you needed to give it back or publish this
or something, and she initialed it as mad because she
(06:21):
was very angry with me, and like this whole thing
went back and forth that he would publish it, but
she would have to pay ten pounds. They did not
have it because they were not well off. After the
father died, they moved around everywhere trying to find a place.
Finally settled into her brother's cottage near her land and
was able to do that. And apparently her writing, most
like everybody else, went with her moods. So she wasn't
(06:44):
in a good place, she couldn't write, And when she
got into a good place she wrote and it was beautiful,
So it was pretty interesting. Of course, we're not talking
too much more about the characters of the book. Many
people do reflect. They do look at her family and
their silliness and their hot hypochondria, like all of these
things that we see in each one of her books.
So you will see a character that is silly as
(07:07):
she would say, and ridiculous and not so smart, or
you would see one that was always sick and needy
and someone needed to take care of her. And a
lot of these were apparently based on her mom from
what I gather, but we don't know this to the
point that apparently when the mom read Mansfield Park, she
really felt that the mother character was cruelly treated, and
then that the character, the heroine, was just ridiculously and
(07:31):
insipid what she said. So a lot of those things.
But they did love her writing enough to give her
time to do it and realize that she was successful
at it and was able to get some money from it.
Now when they weren't successful, they had to pay it back,
which was a whole different conversation in itself. So there's
a lot of things that went on. She has some
unfinished novels that people have tried to complete, including the
(07:53):
author I believe of Bridgerton. She tried to complete it,
but have yet to be seen as successes. I've not
seen anything that's come off. It's like this is it.
Austin died at the young age of forty one, before
being recognized against for her accomplishments and a lot of
who she was or what we could have learned, is
lost to us because letters were burned and her reputation
(08:15):
was glossed over by her family. Literally, Henry was trying
to make her look like the most unpeachable, amazing woman
in the world. Pictures of her apparently were altered so
that she would be the perfect beauty. All of these
things in order to sell the books or sell her
reputation with the books. But of course we do know
that she was actually really upbeat individual who had a
(08:36):
great personality, and she would advise others to not fall
to the outdated standards of marriage by seeking love and wit,
which aparently she told us to a niece. She did
not seem to regret saying no to the dude who
had a lot of money. She would have been wealthy.
They would have been taken care of. But yet, you know,
which is what we see in her works today, except
(08:59):
with happier endings, obviously obviously. So, now that you know
a little bit about Jane Austen, let's dig into persuasions.
Are you ready?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Oh yes, are you ready?
Speaker 3 (09:13):
All right? So this was written and originally titled The Elliotts,
and it was later edited and renamed as Persuasion. The novel,
as we mentioned before, was one of Austin's last, and
many argue is one of her more sophisticated works, like
she finally figured had her style, she had these mature
words again opinions of others, and though many argue that
(09:35):
her unfinished works could have been just as iconic, if
not more. In a statement and commentary on society at
the time, apparently she was writing a book about snake
oil dealers, essentially about people trying to bring people in
based on this water healing that was happening at the time.
So could have been an amazing book. And I think
(09:56):
people really really wish that they had been finished. Of course,
not her fault, and that's why people are trying to
finish it.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
That makes me sad, all right.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
But in this book we are introduced to the Elliots,
a family who has come upon some hard times, partially
due to the main character's father, Sir Wallace Elliott, who
is a vain and stubborn man that clings to titles
and status more than anything else. But before we get there,
we are quickly informed that Anne, a sweet pleasing young
(10:29):
woman who is the main character, I would say had
fallen in love at a young age with a man
named Frederick Wentworth who would soon set sail.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
As a naval man.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Let's talk about the navy in this one. But this
match was opposed by her family as Frederick had no
money or status at the time, and again that was
really important back then, but especially to her.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Father, and Anne was persuaded.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
By her closest friend, inventor Lady Russell, and her family
to turn down the proposal, which would haunt her for
years to come.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah. Years later, we see Anne alone and having to
take care of her remaining family after the death of
our sweet mother. With the debt and financial issues plaguing
the family, her father is persuaded to let the house
or rent it out Kellynch Hall, while he and his
seemingly favorite child Elizabeth, decide to move to Beth because
you know, it's cheaper and of course it would be
(11:26):
they would be of upstanding citizenship and so higher class
in a small town like Bath, and though she doesn't
want to and also prepares to go to Bath with
the family until she's asked to remain near her home
with her youngest sister Mary A hypochondriac married to Charles
Musgraves and their children for a little while, and we
(11:46):
find out later that Charles Musgroves originally asked Anne to
marry him. Right, that doesn't happen and he marries Mary instead.
So here we meet Charles and his family, his father, mother,
and two sisters, Henriette and Louise, who are very fond
of Anne and oftentimes wishes Anne had married Charles. Yes,
(12:07):
Anne becomes the sounding board between all of them, of
the mini complaints and Elma's and all of the such
so unfortunately she has to be the nice one that
is the middle ground for people to come to and
try to be rational. Soon after we meet the Crofts,
who have least kellynch Hall, Admiral Croft and his wife Sophia.
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Sophia happens to be oh, the sister of Frederick Wentworth.
Oh No, which opens up the novel to the upcoming
high jinks that we're about to talk about.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Mm hmm, all right, So soon enters Wentworth, who is
now Captain Wentworth, rich and accomplished and apparently still very handsome.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Still very handsome, you gotta remember that, yes, and.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Is also obviously still hurt at being rejected by Anne,
and even comments on how Anne has quote been.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
So altered since he last saw her.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Oh and now being twenty seven, Anne is seen as
sort of a spinster. Oh no, the worst twenty seven,
Oh no. And he seems to be interested in both
of the young Musgrove ladies, and they are very interested
in him too, even at the expense of Charles Hayter,
(13:23):
who is trying to court Henrietta at the time. And
as she and the Musgroves and Crofts all go on
a lovely trip to Lyme Regis, we see Wentworth seemingly pursue.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
These young women even more.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Here we meet captains Harville and Benwick, who are friends
of Captain Wentworth. Benwick was at this point mourning the
death of his fiance and seemed to be getting close
to Anne, as they had a common love of writing
and poetry. But soon, of course, more drama occurs, at
which time Louisa falls while jumping from a seawall, causing
her to get a concussion and causing her to she
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needs to be under constant surveillance, which happens to be
Yes the care under the watchful eye of Captain Wentworth
and the Harville's family who lived there. So she has
this injury and he's like, well, I've got to look
out for her. Then I got to make sure she covers.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
He feels very guilty because obviously he didn't stop her.
And Ann soon returns to be with her father and
sister in Beth after that incident, and there she meets
with William Elliott, who is she had actually had contact
with at the at Lime. So we see this moment
and apparently at that at the beach, she looked really beautiful.
(14:34):
Of course, I guess it affected her. Now she's more
beautiful than ever. I do think it's quite funny because
we'll talk about this in a bit, but the fact
that she they keep commenting on how some people get
more attractive when when as they get older, but it's rare, like, yeah,
I like that, this is what's happening to our dear Anne.
(14:58):
And yeah. So she meets with William Elliott, a cousin
and the heir to the fortune of their family, who
once was supposed to marry Elizabeth. I think it was
intended that way, but rejected both her and the family
to marry another rich woman, which did not go over
well with Sir Elliott, obviously, because that was completely slighting
of his favorite daughter. All of those things, and that
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wife dies and so now he is a rich widower
coming background. But he soon changed their minds with his
charm and attention, and even Lady Russell, who was hopeful
that he would marry Anne, saw that he was in
good standing and was approving of him. But however, Anne
was suspicious of him. It was too much. But while
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in Bath and was able to reconnect with our friend
Missus Smith, who was a widow and was ill at
the time and unfortunately very poor because things had gone
wrong with her husband's fortune. There she and Missus Smith
are able to reconnect and talk about the gossip around Bath.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yes, and soon all the Musgroves and Crofts decided to
come to Bath as well.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Oh, dear.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Anne has learned that Louisa is now engaged to Captain
Benwick and that Henrietta was now engaged to Charles Hayter,
and all seemed happy and well with them. And then
of course Anne runs into Captain Wentworth and has an
interesting They have an interesting exchange together. However, at the
same time, mister Elliott, which by the way, this was
(16:27):
very like game of prones to me where I'm like,
I need a chart to cheap track of who is who?
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Okay, Elliott's going around.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
I know, I know, said Sir Elliott.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yes, yes, yes, yes not her father, her cousin was
trying to wiggle his way into her affections, causing Wentworth
to be both jealous and deterred. And it was soon
after that Anne discovered from her friend, Missus Smith, how
deceptive and uncaring mister Elliott really was, so her suspicions
were correct, and she resolved to let Lady Russell know
(16:58):
of his character. But before she could, she and Wentworth
were able to reconnect and soon became engaged. Mister Elliott leaves,
taking Missus Clay, a woman who was trying to seduce
her way into the Elliott family. Was a friend of Elizabeth.
By the way, Yes, and Anne and Captain Wentworth get married.
(17:19):
Lady Russell admits her mistake and accepts the couple as
new friends.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Yes, and all of this to say also, Miss Smith
had connections with mister Elliott, who was not great, and
she was trying to get someone to help her get
her fortunes because there was a little bit of money
out there and Captain Wentworth helped her and she was
able to live and everybody was happy. Everybody was happy.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah, yeay. Although I kind of that whole Missus Clay thing.
I was kind of like Damn Okay.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Who has two children, who was the daughter of the
lawyer that helped get all these things in place. There's
so many characters we left out. I'm sorry, but you
should go and read the book. It's short. If you
like these things, go for it. I will say I
(18:18):
tried to watch the new movie with Dakota Johnson. I
could not get through it because I know what they
were trying to do, but it was not working for
me as a lover of this classic in the way
it is formed to have Dakota Johnson portray Anne Elliott
as a bumbling, clumsy woman who brags about herself and
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is just bitter, which is her whole thing is like
to be better. At the very beginning, she talks about
losing him, being a little angry about what was happening,
and then all she does is drink, sit in the corner,
lay face on the bed, like she takes baths by
herself like. This is how it introduces an I'm like.
Throughout the entire book, Jane austen portrays Anne as someone
(19:05):
who understands why and there's no way she could have
married him at that point and be where she was
today as happy and being glad that it worked out
this way no matter what. And then her whole character again,
she's a little too pristine, too smart, but like it's
to be unseen in the corner, and trying not to
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bring any ripples about being a little heartbroken that he
seems to have I'm not forgiven her and is trying
to move on with these other women type of things.
In the movie, at the very beginning of the scene
where I talked about how Charles Musgroves says was supposed
to had originally proposed to Anne. In the book, the
sisters revealed to Captain Wentworth that he had originally proposed
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and they had wished that she had gotten married to him.
In the movie, Anne blurts it out at the dinner
table in front of everyone, to everybody's chocolate. She proposed
to me first, and everybody was like, what, so that
is that? And I was like, absolutely not, absolutely not.
I can't do this. I can't do this. So for
(20:09):
those of you who may have seen the movie and
they actually liked it.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
There's a grimace on Samantha's face, but she's trying to
power through.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
I'm just like, let me know what I missed out,
maybe to rectify and come back to it, because after
that scene, I was like, no, I can't do this.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, yeah, that's fair. It's fair.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I mean you've said before, you've got your your versions
that you like Harry passionate about this.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
When you alter it so greatly, it's just becomes This
entire movie is supposed to be a lot of cringe
moments like oh oh, like she makes fun of him
and he walks in to hear her make fun of
her him. That does not happen. There's a moment where
again she screams like she's supposed to be across the way.
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She screams his name because he's talking to a girl
the girls, and she's jealous, and then she hides away
underneath it because she yells his name and everybody's like,
what like all of these things it's supposed to be
like the cringe worthy level, and I'm like, oh, I
don't even like that. Yeah, when I do, like a
movie so maybe, And the take is like I think
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it's supposed to be a modern take back then because
they rank people about you're a ten here, but they're
that type of thing. So I think that's what they
were trying to do with it, to make this new
type of thing. But I'm like that works. I feel
like more so with like Clueless or ten things that
I hate about you, where they flip it to be
like taking the old tail into a modern take. Sure,
(21:34):
but try to do a modern take to in the
old tail in that timeline doesn't feel like it works.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, I think it's difficult to pull off for sure.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
For sure.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I say that as I still kind of like Night's
Till and that's a whole different movie and they do that.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, oh again, it can be done, Yeah, just not
easily done.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
It's not easily done. It's okay now that I've printed
about that themes, all right, So of course one of
the big themes is women in society and their role
in society at that point and time, because all throughout
Austin's books you will see that as the main plot
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of all of them is trying to find a good marriage.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Yeah, and I think this is one of the things that.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Can be easily forgotten, but at this time it was
a huge deal for like, that was your purpose, especially
in this where they were located. And the timing of
this was as a woman, you have to have a
pretty upstanding, polite society reputation and then you will be
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married off and what is hopefully a financially good decision
for the woman and the family.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
And it was, I mean, it was a huge it
was very important.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
You couldn't known anything like I mean with what happened
to Jane austen Or she died poor, even though she'd
written all this stuff that is so successful now, but
she didn't get married, and so it was seen as
a failure. And I think that that can sometimes get lost.
And I did enjoy that the importance of it was
(23:17):
still there, but it was like underlaid with all of
the slayers of gossip, kind of like pettiness and a
lot of stuff about class, which is pretty common for
these kinds of books as well. But yeah, I mean,
that's the whole thing is like her sister's trying to
(23:38):
get married. Her other sister did get married. She's got
to get married because their father went into debt, like
it's all of the stuff about well, I got to
do this for the family and for money essentially.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Right, so essentially, And I don't know, because I don't
know customarily how correct we are. I'm assuming it is
because it was her time frame. But I think with
Emma they had this conversation about being a spencer with money,
you're able to do that more so than being a
spencer not without money, that you e will literally die essentially,
(24:12):
and that the idea that if it's taken away. So
we see that often, and we saw that in many
of the books Pride and Prejudice. If there's no male heir,
it goes to the next male heir, which could be
a cousin or someone who will turn you out. There
is a book, I can't remember which one where they
actually do turn out the family where they're like, uh,
the I think it was like an uncle or a
cousin who inherits it and he had promised to help them,
(24:36):
but he doesn't. He chooses not to, and so they
go to the situation. Yeah, this is that conversation. And
I feel like I'm talking about her as fine nour.
For Austin, it was so important that she fall for
love that she was willing to sacrifice all of that
to be there, And it doesn't sound like anybody held
her responsible and or were bitter towards her because of that.
(24:56):
Like her only sister, Cassandra, she had five brothers. Again,
she did get help from one of the brothers and
apparently they lost their money in a scheme, not a scheme,
but a thing that they invested in with another brother.
There's a whole different level of things that were happening here,
but it is it's like she stuck to her guns
in her books as well, but she saw the happier
(25:17):
ending and was hoping for the happier ending, which is
kind of the tragic bit that that happened that she
didn't get to any of that. And of course, yeah,
money was a huge thing, which I don't understand how
money worked at that point in time. Was nobody like
nobody seems to do things, but they all have money,
Like I'm very confused by that in itself.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah, well, I think that's where a lot of the
like class comes in of kind of inherited money or
marrying into money or both. But it's also important to
remember at this time, you know, love might have been
a thing in marriages, but often it was an economic right.
Originally it was much more of like a financial decision
(25:59):
than anything to do with love.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Which makes sense even today to me, not to that extent,
but I'm like, you know what, maybe they're not far off.
Maybe that shouldn't be a bad thing, because emotions change,
all emotions change. But I also found it funny that
she when she wrote the lines for her father about
how titles are not earned, accomplishments are not earned, but
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you're born with it, and how could these traditions change.
I feel like we hear that today in different forms
of like essentially privileged of like oh well I got this,
you got this from your daddy, stop it. And how
you think that's class. That's not, that's not class, stop it.
But that that was pretty funny, and I think she did,
of course, she wrote that on purpose to talk about
this absurdity about the ideal of class and rank, and
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it was a beautiful. Her writing is so good.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
It's just so good.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Of course, when we talk about all that with marriage
and responsibility, we talk about families, whether it's the good,
the bad, and unfortunately just what it is, the undeniable
they are here, that's what they are. I feel like
again her painting of her mother, possibly in the characters
of Brian Prejudice, she does this with the ridiculous mother.
(27:14):
In the character of her sister Mary, she does this
of this ridiculous woman who was just obviously privileged and
over the top spoiled and really just self absorbed character
and what that looks like, and how she portrays them
in the book. Of course we know they're not all
that one dimensional, but she does that as a comic
(27:35):
relief but also probably a stress relief.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
I'm guessing yeah, yeah, And I think it's one of
those things where I imagine most of us can relate
to this, even though it was written so long ago.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
That you have the family member who's always kind of
like needing you to help them.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
For whatever reason.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
You've got the you feel responsible for, like perhaps somebody
older in your life and their financial security, and you've
got the like one you're always being compared to. Perhaps,
Like there's just a bunch of family relationships that I
think a lot of us can relate to are kind
of are like, oh, I have something sort of like
that in my life.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Maybe it's not even family it can be friends as well,
but like.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
And the whole idea of her I feel like when
you compare and to the rest of her family, it
does and this might be Austin kind of again, yeah,
having that stress relief. It does feel like they all
were using her for something, whether it's her dad, like financially,
her younger sister to be like the person she can
(28:44):
complain to you about everything, her older sister to compare
like I'm better than you, all those kinds of things,
and kind of trying to be the diplomat.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
And then you've.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Got this mister Elliott cousin fellow at the ends just
kind of using them and what seems a very callous
way to just secure the inheritance. So yeah, I mean
there's like those are kind of the negative aspects. There
were certainly some positive interactions between all of them that
(29:17):
were fun to see, but it is that that tension
and family and how we treat each other and use
each other was very apparent.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
I do think it's funny that she is kind of
one of those like, ugh, this family, what can you do?
Like time of situation, and she has a amongst a
lot of the books that she does. I also do
appreciate and I thought it was really hilarious the way
they talk about the dead brother of the Musgroves. They
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just literally like, thank God he's dead, like he really
was useless outside of just dying. I mean, he's a
good thing he died, but we're gonna pretend like we
really mourn him, miss him. But I was just like, wow, Jay,
And I'm not sure who in your life, but to
be fair, and this is I've read an interesting bit
about the fact that she did have another brother who
was institutionalized and then after at thirteen years old, after
(30:11):
he was pretty much given away, they never talked about
him again, they never reached out to him. And she
did that too. She was a part of that, not caring,
not noticing he died at seventy one, No one went
to his funeral, no one cared like it was pretty sad.
So I'm wondering if that was how she felt, which
is awful, which is awful, awful, awful and meaning care
like caroless, it does kind of put a stain on
who she is and like and I get it in
(30:33):
that sense of like during that time and age, that's
what you did, still really callous and cold. But I
wondered if that was kind of that mentioning. Again, I
could have been reading way too much into this, and
I have a feeling awesome. Fans may come after me
for saying that, but there was there's this connection of
this one brother who kind of just was shunned because
(30:56):
whether it was mental health stuff, whether it was physical stuff,
whether it was whatever. He lived to be seventy one.
I mean that's amazing. Yeah at that point time, Yeah,
that I'm like, okay, makes me wonder because they talked
about him having quote unquote fits you know, we don't
know what that means, and then that that's what happened
(31:18):
with his brother. No one acknowledged him, no one said
him money, no one talked to him, no one reached
out to him. Like it makes me think a lot
about like what was the point of this one character
that she brought in, because I don't really hear much
of that callousness of someone dying like they did in
this way of like outside of like oh this man
was useless, this ex husband was useless, he was mean,
(31:41):
or all these things like that kind of thing. But
that was kind of interesting. So I don't know if
that was something poigted with her own family take. It
was one of her last books. She was getting sick.
She apparently had a lot of ailments, so that could
have been just as that so being being seen as
inconvenient or whatever whatnot. I found that interesting. Again, may
(32:01):
got too dark and too deep into her history for
that one, but yeah, no. Of course, as a part
of anything else wealth talking about wealth. Constant talk about
wealth and money being a motivator, whether it's who you
married or who you didn't marry, is all throughout her book.
And of course her constant back thought is I can't
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marry this person or I have to marry this person
because of money. And of course it was at that
point in time your livelihood depended on whether or not
you could provide for yourself and your family.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Right right, It is like the biggest driver for a
lot of the decisions that were made. And I mean
it starts with I thought this was really interesting how
it begins, because I, as someone who had read it,
it kind of starts with this interesting portrait of Sir
Walter Elliott and how who he is and how he
(32:54):
got into debt and how he's so proud he doesn't
want anyone to know that he's in this trouble.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
How can they like keep up airs as they say?
Speaker 2 (33:03):
And then you get introduced to his daughters, and I
didn't know who the main character was, and originally they're
kind of paint and it is like this background like
shee's okay, and so I didn't know what was going on.
But it's like, right from the jump is the impetus
of we need money. We want to at least look
(33:27):
like we have money. We want to be able to,
you know, appear like we're high society or whatever HI,
And that determines, you know, like where they move and
their relationships with people, and not just like marriage, but
like friends, like who you're gonna hang out with, who
you will be seen with, all those kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
So it was.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Incredibly huge scene and important to everybody, right right.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
I actually really like you to talk about them having they
can't be associated be friends with unless they have high money,
which was the whole like the thought process of Elizabeth
trying to invite people that she doesn't want to be seen,
but they should, They of their standing should be just
happy with an afternoon drink game session instead of a
whole mill because they don't want to. First, she doesn't
(34:20):
want to be seen as poor because they can't do
that because they only have one or two servants and
they need more to be seen as high class. But
at the same time they're not deserving even though they
have more money than than Elizabeth and Sir Wallace that
it's quite funny, that dichotomy of her like, but we're
still higher ranking than them, so we don't want this
to happen.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Like it's quite funny.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
And then she gets jaded and all alone.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
I know.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
That's I'm telling you that whole Miss Clay thing sent
me for a loop.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Well I knew it was.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
I knew because she was kind of like I knew
she was being set up with the father, but I thought.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
She wasn't being set up. She was set herself up
with the father, right, She's trying to scheme her way in.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
I was hoping they'd be real friends, that's all. That's all.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
There's one or two scandalous women about, and she is
the one.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
For this one.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Sugg said, her life is sad again because she's like,
just try to make it. But that's okay because with
her being the mistress of mister Elliott, she owned that
home and therefore she has made herself a mistress.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
I know.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
So she did it, she did it.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
She did. I don't want to own it. Well that
he does now well I know.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, And I mean we're on the flip side. We
do see, is it, missus Smith? Like we see what
happens when you don't have money for women too, And
it was not.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Her fault, and there was money there and she couldn't
get to it unless a man, you know, vouched for
her and helped her. It was a whole thing like
she's now settled, but for the time being she wasn't,
as she was destined and had one or two friends,
and no one wanted to help her except for the
nurse friend. And then it turned out it's partially this,
mister Eliot's fault that you can't live.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Yeah, I feel like a lot of evil, a lot
of the stuff, not all of it which we're about
to talk about, but a lot of it was like
your dad's in debt. So now this woman has to
suffer or like right, this man and now this woman
has to suffer.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Right Oftentimes that we see that again and again and again,
and that's what Jane's like, don't go with a false
man because he's not gonna leave you happy. Yeah, And
(36:52):
as the title would suggest, persuasion are being persuaded or
even manipulated, if you want to go and step further,
as a big theme throughout and as the result of
why she's in this situation or anybody is in this
situation in general, because she is trying to please everyone
(37:12):
else but herself.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Yeah, which I you know, I'm several layers removed from
this time period obviously, but I really related to that.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
I've dated people.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
I was kind of like because I thought like society
was telling me too, like you should do it, give
it it go. And so in this particular case, like
we see and you know, pretty happy with this guy, Fredrick.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
She was quite young, but she was pretty happy with him.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Announced announced this engagement, and like Lady Russell in particular was.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Like no, no, no, and I'm gonna I'm.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Gonna talk you out of it, and everybody was against it,
and so she kind of so she she broke it off,
and as you said, like perhaps that was for the best,
like they could both mature, he could come back at
a better time. But it was something that she was
basically kind of bullied almost like no, no, no, this
(38:08):
is not her her decision and her agency almost was
just kind of taken away, like no, that's bad match,
you don't.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Want to do that.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
And she really respected Lady Russell, so she was like, oh, okay, right, right, So.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Lady Russell was the friend of the mother and very
big confidante to the home. She really helped them out
so many times. It was really kind of funny. Also,
Sir Wallace's description of Lady Russell was like, yeah, but
she's not pretty and she's getting old, so no, like
that's kind of that's what his thing was. But yeah,
I think it's interesting because yes, this is the beginning.
(38:41):
We understand that she has been talked out of being
in love essentially with this man who has no fortune,
who has no name, so therefore she doesn't do it.
But then we see that later on that people trying
to do the same things again and trying to turn
her to a different man who may have been like
seemingly better. All of these conversations, whether it's trying to
(39:02):
persuade one person to be one person go to this place, like,
all of these things are happening, and she's finally coming
into her own and doing her own work to figure
out what she wants and truly what she wants and
why she wants it, or why she doesn't trust this
person or whatever whatnot, instead of just believing that they're
of a good character and or not. So I find
(39:23):
that fun. Throughout we also see the other works of
people try to manipulate her into other situations, whether it's
Mary manipulating her to be like, you need to stay
with me and take care of the children, and that works,
she does it, and then all these other things happen,
and then you also see I don't know if it's
(39:44):
a manipulation. Quite like, we don't know if Captain Wentworth
actually pushed Benwick to Louisa so he could no longer
have to actually marry her. I don't know. He says
it's a good fortune and it just happened to happen,
so you know, okay, seems suspect.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, as I said earlier,
like a lot of what people's actions were in regards
to Anne were of all about them. So like even
with Charles mister Musgrove and everyone being like we wish
you had married him. They want that, not necessarily because
they like really like Anne, but they like Anne better Mary.
(40:28):
But yeah, all of these kind of machinations and manipulations
around relationships.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
And I think it's what you said earlier that was.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
A really good point of her learning to trust herself
of not just like, oh, this guy is suspicious. She
gets to the bottom of why he's suspicious. She trust,
she feels it, but then she gets to the bottom
of it. And it's the same with Frederick, where she's like, oh,
I still really like this guy, and just kind of
like accepting, you know what, that's that's what I want,
(40:58):
that's what I'm right about everybody else.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Yeah, and yeah, I appreciate that. And then also Lady
Russell being persuaded to understand she was wrong.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
She was wrong, she was very.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Wrong about both of these men, and then realizing having
to admit that and coming to understanding that they're in
a happy place. But again and throughout it's like, I
am not bitter about this. I don't think this was
out of malice, And I think this worked out to
the perfect timing, which is probably the other theme to
this is like timing for everything even though it caused
(41:29):
a lot of heartache and a lot of doubt, it
finally came round to working itself out, and of course
she's in a better situation because he is rich continuing
to be rich. Apparently this was during the the French War. Anyway,
it was barely around that time. And you know, interesting
fun fact also is when one of the places that
(41:51):
Janelson and her family had to move to was a
naval town, and there was insinuation that they had a
really hard time and may have been harassed by those
around her because they were not of they didn't have money,
so therefore they were treated poorly. Not sure, but she
seems to give a good review of the navy and
those of the navy, so I don't know, it would
(42:13):
not imply that maybe it was just a setup that
she needed. Who knows, because again this does go to
a lot of her own life where she seemingly uses
the rich character to the guy that she turned down
to being in love with, the lower character who needed
money but came up on money. All of these things
(42:35):
that happened to be perfect for these conversations. Apparently her
father was a reverend, so we have conversations about that
in some of the books that she writes, So there's
a lot to be said and how she takes her
own personal situations and put it into the books. But yeah,
(42:55):
I really, I really loved this book. How did you feel?
Speaker 1 (42:59):
It was a fun read?
Speaker 2 (43:00):
It was a fun read. Like I said, I wish
I had had a chart. I think I figured out
when mister Elliott showed up.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
I was so confused. It's also because of like.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
My modern day mind where I'm like, never would you
marry family members, which is not true of the time, right,
But god, I was so confused.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
But I did enjoy it. It did kind of crack me up.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
I know I mentioned it earlier, but I was like,
you know, you add dragons in here. This is Game
of Thrones. This is the same thing, a little bit
more violence of dramas.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Dragons violence, and less happy endings. I think maybe maybe
family drama.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
I was like, there's a lot of drama and a
lot of not as funny equips as you like since
start here in Game of Thrones that I've maybe that's
just me maybe, But yeah, I love these books and
it always makes me feel cozy and like is feel
sentimental in itself. I still argue with people about whether
(43:57):
or not as feminists because people were like, they just
get mad, they all settle in and all, you know,
give in to marriage, And I'm like, but yeah, this
is the standard. And during her time she was rebellious,
and her own life she was actually rebellious did not
end well. But it's okay because she accomplished a lot,
as we see, unfortunately not during that time. We wish
(44:19):
we could give it all the flowers. Although she did
get money for it. She did get paid, and she
did get some fame and acclaim for it as loving
the book, not necessarily her, but yeah, I think it's
it's such a great take. There's so many things to
learn from it as you look back on what the
traditions were and understanding where she was and she was
fighting society with these books and trying to talk about
(44:43):
how these standards are absurd, and class and rank was absurd,
and how for women it means nothing.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Yeah almost, yeah, yeah, And I think with her her
woody equips as you say, like you see that you
see that signing through of this commentary on how absurd
and ridiculous a lot of all of this.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
Is she's not quiet about it, and I love no.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Mm hmmm. It was really fun. It was really fun.
Maybe we'll do another one in the future.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
Yes, yes, I mean we want to do the whole
damn Prime Prejudice BBC series. I'm down.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
I would love it. I think it'd be great.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Oh my god, and I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
Perfect it's our next the whole month of content out.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
I would I would love it. I think it'd be great.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Well, look forward to that, listeners, and in the meantime,
as always, if you have any suggestions for book clubs,
movie picks, or any any topic at all, really, you
can email us at Stephania mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast
or on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
Thanks, as always to our super borders of Christina.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
Oh Christina, I need your opinions about Jane Austen.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
Yes please, and thanks to you for listening Stuffan Ever
Told You?
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Protective of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can visit
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Speaker 1 (46:11):
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