September 8, 2023 • 47 mins
In a whole new take on the 'period piece', Anney and Samantha finally discuss the genre of horror known as 'supernatural menstruation horror' in this classic episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff
I never told you projection of iHeartRadio, and today we
are bringing you a classic because of scheduling, sickness, all
(00:25):
kinds of stuff, which is kind of fitting I for
the classic I wanted to bring back today because this
is one of the best puns I've ever made, in
my opinion, It's about supernatural menstruation in horror. And I know,
(00:48):
like we're getting a little ahead of ourselves.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
You know, we love good horror. We love Halloween.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I especially love Halloween and Fall, and we're getting a
little bit ahead of ourselves. But I have been thinking
about this lately because, as we mentioned in our recent
con Dragon Con wrap up episode, a lot of people
were dressed as horror like more than normal for Dragon Con.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
But I've also seen a lot of horror movies lately.
I know this is a press surprise, but I have
seen a lot of horror movies lately.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
They were coming out in droves right now, like yees,
so many horror movies.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
So many horror movies.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
And I read a whole article about like companies being
surprised at how well their horror was doing.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
All their like horror movies.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Just some things that they thought would just flop have
really taken off.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
And you know that I'm there watching them.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Them all.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
There's one hold out that gonna I'm gonna watch this weekend.
We'll see.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I did want to mention I brought it up before.
Deep bluesy Okay is a bad movie. It's really bad,
but it's on my good bad Movies list, and it's
inspired a new topic I want to talk about because
it's like their twenty fifth anniversary, so I don't know,
it's some anniversary. And the director was saying, like people
(02:15):
are now calling for the original ending to be released,
and I was like, the original ending, So I investigated
and there.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I knew it.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I knew the Ladies Scientist wasn't supposed to die.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I knew it.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
They always felt kind of off to me in the
original ending. She doesn't die spoilers. I guess that movie's old.
But they said on exit interviews everyone was like that
she needs to die, so they killed her off. They
reached the ending, and I want to come back and
revisit that, which I know you've seen the outline and
it looks really ominous, like deserves to die as the title,
(02:55):
Oh okay.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
I was like, you know what this, Yes, but I
feel like.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
That kind of mindset of like, when a man does it,
it's all right, he deserves this redemption arc.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
When a woman does it serves to die.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
If you've never seen Deep Lucy, she was a scientist
that made some questionable ethical choices, but does have a
journey of realizing she did wrong.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Oh I know nothing about this really bad. It's supposedly
good movie, so okay.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Yeah, well we're going to do a whole It might
be a mini it might be a whole episode about it.
But I was also thinking about bringing this one back
because there's been a lot of articles in my very
niche circle about possession in horror movies and what it
represents and why we get it wrong a lot in
(03:49):
terms of who were having possessed, why they're possessed, all
that stuff. So I want to come back and talk
about that too, which is another outline you might have
seen that might have made you nervous.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
The title like extracism.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Oh yeah, okay, yeah, but I thought it was fitting
with you know, approaching this season, but also we are
approaching slowly but steadily the end of our long religious mini.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Series coming is coming. It is just long awaited, my
flat conclusion.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
But it is coming, yes, But in the meantime, please
enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and Samantha
and welcome to Stefan Never Told your production of iHeartRadio.
(04:49):
For today's question, I'm asking one that I guess I
kind of talked about a little bit before. But do
you remember when you got your first period?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I do.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
I was twelve years old, and I had been and
excited about it, mainly because I've watched way too many
sitcoms about how this is a celebration of womanhood and
how this is such a big deal.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
And I'm thinking my mom's gonna at least give me,
like I.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Don't know, a present of soores that tells me about it. Instead,
I got sent to my nurses office, who handed me
a pad. Who I went home and my mom was like, okay,
well I'll buy you some pads and that was the
end of the story.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
And I was like, cool, cool, cool.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
And then after that I probably had some of the
worst crams ever and I hated everything.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Everything.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Yeah, and it took a little while before I started
wearing tampons, But man, those pads were so uncomfortable and gross.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah, I was nine and we were going we were
going to a field trip to the Fox Theater. Oh yeah, yeah,
to go see the Nutcracker.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
And I was very, very excited.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
And my teacher came up to me and put her
hand on my shoulder and like whispered in my ear, honey,
I have to talk to you. And it was as
though someone had died, like she was breaking the news
that someone had died and I had to go home,
and like I was wearing khakis, so it was really
obvious bloodstain. And yeah, I know I've talked about it before,
(06:24):
but I thought you only got it once. So I
was like at hurt and I had horrible cramps, but
I got to stay home and I got Arby's.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I remember getting RV's nice.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
So I did have a celebration. That's nice.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yeah, And I you know, I didn't realize it was
a real thing, and I did do the thing where
I thought I was dying at first, but then it
was explained to me.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
So the second time I got my period was much much.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Worse when I realized, oh this is oh right, oh no.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Right, why why is it continuing to happen.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah. Oh, but yeah, today were finally talking about something
I've wanted to talk about forever.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
It's happening, and we're.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Talking about my theory that almost all horror movies are
secretly about male writers and their fear of female bodies
and particularly periods.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Yes, I think.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I guess this is kind of like a two parter
because the next one is kind of on that same
idea at least sexuality.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah, I had a real revelation researching this that it's
you know, it's female bodies, but it's also just women horror.
The genre is almost all about our fear of women.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
I mean that's fair.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, they should be, damn right.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
But yes, note obviously not all women have periods, and
we are being hearted about this. And again, not all
people who have periods are women, and we acknowledge that,
and that is a thing, and it is all true,
and we understand and respect that.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
But for this specifically, we are.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Talking about women's bodies, especially when we talk about the
old school horror movies who really really, really really really
were afraid of women.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Oh yeah, and as we record this and as you
listen to it, if you're listening to it when it
first came out.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
It's October. Happy Halloween, I know, my favorite time.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
It's October first, actually the day we're recording this, and
I'm already like, should I get a pumpkin? No?
Speaker 3 (08:20):
I was trying to get a pumpkin two weeks ago
and told someone told me no, like at the store.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Yeah, because they were there, and I liked the little
mini pumpkins. I love those. I'm putting Gogle.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Eyes on there, like, oh wow, that's my Jacqueline Arns,
essentially a little mini ones, and they're like smite the no.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
I want it.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
What touch to me is I don't want it to
rot before Halloween. And also.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Now that I'm getting so many groceries at once, it
was a lot to carry, right, and I am someone
who tries to make what I don't like to go
back and forth from my car to my apartment. That's ridiculous.
One trip, one trip. Ant.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Yes, I'm like, that's than your nickname.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
By the way, I definitely had two of my mini
pumpkins sitting on my balcony.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
For two years.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Wow. And they didn't die.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
They didn't the last time. Actually, producer Andrew was here
over the house. So this was a while ago over here,
and he and my partner went out and they were like,
what is this And one had slowly started to decay
and the other one was okay, but I think they
had gotten.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Stuck to the railing of my bandness.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Oh wow. And when they took it off, they threw
it into the yard because you know, that's what you
do with gords, right, And apparently it was disgusting, like
the inside of it was really gross, but it was intact.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Wow, that's a shame. It was almost a part of
your apartment.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Hus It kind of did grow into my apartment. And
look what you did, yell ruined my life.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Happy Hallow reen.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Yes, yes to the topic at hand.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
People and particularly dudes, I would say, I've been afraid
of women's bodies and their periods forever.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Throughout history.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Periods have been viewed as a mark of womanhood, are
something shameful and even evil, something that you hide. Some
historians believe a few religions may have developed in part
due to disgust and fear around periods. Numerous superstitions about
periods have sprung up all over the world, like don't
bake bread while you're on your period.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Don't go to a funeral on your period, don't.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Call a man on the phone on your period, of
heaven forbid, as well as etiquette rules often preventing girls
and women from interacting with boys and men during menstruation,
which I thought was when I think about that, that's
so interesting to me. It's like this passing of sin.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
And there is also minophobia, which is legit phobia, fear
of periods, and just the fact that we call it
the curse, which I will say is I kind of
jokingly been reclaimed I feel like in a lot of spaces,
but uh, that wasn't always the case.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Well, and like I said, in my little generation, it
was blooming really womanhood.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Yeah you bloomed.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Oh wow, I never ever encountered.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
It's fascinating to me when you say you saw like
these positive are like humorous, perhaps it's better word depictions.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
I never it was always a bad thing to me.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah, I've only seen it as a bad thing. As
I was researching this, I was trying to think of
one example where it wasn't portrayed as just like terribly
negative or something to fear right, And I think.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
It's also the whole like positive or the comedy wasn't
necessarily just a positive. It was literally turning in sexualizing
and adulting, making a child an adult by a marker
which you are nine, you are not a woman, but
they would say you are now becoming a woman. Me
at twelve, who's still you know, a little older. That
is not the age of becoming a woman. But that's
(12:02):
absolutely a backtrack idea of women getting birth and when
they are able to mate, and so they'refore sold off
to know, you are now able to have babies, you
have reached your adulthood.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Here you go.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
So it's not necessarily it's like at the reclaiming, but
it is this backwards idea of why we were called
to being a woman and being now seen sexual because
we've become able to be impregnated essentially, So it's a positive.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
But a negative but a negative.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, well, and I think that's a lot of our
tension around it.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
We're going to talk about that a little bit more,
but kind of this tension of we have called it's
for so long a mark of womanhood, but in times
it's like with me, I was nine and clearly not right,
but there's like this idea is still there, and I
do want to say, like, we're not obviously going into
a history of people's views on periods. And there's been
(12:53):
several episodes past hosts have done on like superstitions around
periods or history of our our beliefs around them, and
there are some cultures where the period is celebrated. So
I just I want to put that out there. But today,
because we're focusing on like the horror movie aspect of it,
we're not going to do an exhaustive history, but that
(13:15):
that does exist, like it's not so feared everywhere, but
going back to when it was feared in Jewish tradition
to blame for the curse and the less fun aspects
of childbirth less than fun, shall we say our place
solely on Eve's shoulders. Of course, the taal mood has
(13:38):
this dire warning if a me instrument woman passes between
two men, if it is at the beginning of her mencies,
she will slay one of them, and if it is
at the end of her minsies, she will cause strife
between them.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Well, damn, if I even had that much power to
start walking in between some chosen then.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Can you imagine like men scattering.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
My god, I would just be streaming the all time
I'm menstrating, and then try to go in between all
men so.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Parting like a wave, and then like them shouting.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
What part of period is she on? Where are you?
You will never know?
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Fear me right.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
So meanwhile, Livedicus describes periods as ritual impurity, labeling the
menstrating women as impure in anyone or anything that touches
her unclean until the evening comes, which is hilarious to this.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Like time frame of when this could be.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
So not only is this girl or woman on her
period impure, that impurity was believed to be transferable by touch.
So haha, this is the beginning of like a zombie
apocalypse is actually the period?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, you know what I say, it's fat luck.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Our modern reaction to it is enlightening in a way
because in theory, like we're acting as though this is
a great power, which is fun to imagine, and people
were running from as afraid. But at this time I
imagine women were afraid of this too, and that it's
like you don't want to cause strife between men, like
heaven forbid, and you don't want a man to strike
himself down.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Not that there weren't women. I'm sure that did.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
They're okay with it, yeah, but I know that it
was not just isolated two men that women were afraid to.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Well. Also, that also brings on a bigger shame factor.
And if you cass, are you a witch? Are you
like impure?
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Who are you?
Speaker 3 (15:24):
And so just having a period says your impirer, says
your sinful?
Speaker 4 (15:28):
So of course has that shame level to that as well.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Well. It's really insidious when you think about it, because
it's basically it's saying, these two men get in a fight,
blame that woman if she's menstruating, right, never holding men
accountable for their actions.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
As per usual.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
So many religious scripts prohibit sex during periods and also
recommend that cleansing back to wash off the impurity once
the period is over. And by the way, that still
holds true today. I know a lot of people kind
of hold two that you're not supposed to be having sex.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
I was actually taught that as a kid, that.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
It was biblical to not have sex and that it
was imperiod, have sex durined period.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
And even in my mind, there's this whole level of
like Ooh, that's kind of gross.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Wow. See I just kind of assumed you wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
And then I mentioned that to a good friend of
mine in college and she's like, well, i've heard it's
actually really great.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
I was like, oh, homoies.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Are all over the place at this time, we know this.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
But yeah, actually I was told that as a kid,
and I don't even think it was one of my
female relatives who told me, yeah, it's gross, you shouldn't
do this. And she was an adult believing this, So
I was like, oh, okay. In some sex of Orthodox
Christianity still forbidminstrating women from receiving communions. I can't imagine
that conversation to come and be like, ah, I can't
(16:46):
take part and communion today Church, I'm all my period.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
That does sound so again shameful of Like people are
going to know that you're on your period, right, you
have to tell them assume that you are, Like, you
don't have to say a thing the fact that you
didn't take communion.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Oh, either you're a devil worshiper or you're on your period,
or both or both, which is so During Ramadan, however,
women on their period may be exempt from fasting, so
that seems at least reasonable.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah, yeah, And again, like it's so much we could
talk about if we were specifically focusing on all of
the ways around the world the period is viewed and treated.
But we are talking about horror movies today, and we've
talked about before how horror movies are a really great
reflection of what scares us as a society, and clearly
(17:44):
we're afraid periods so much so it almost qualifies as
its own horror subgenre. That's called supernatural period horror. That's perfect,
which I mentioned to a guy friend the other day
and he was like, are you talking about like a
horrmon be taking place in like the sixteen hundreds, And
I was like, no, but.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I see how you thought that.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I'll see how you thought that, Like pioc gotcha exactly exactly.
So Emily Soderback has actually written a whole piece on
this called Ghoul You'll be a Woman Soon, Supernatural Puberty
in the Horror of Periods, and she goes a step
further in this article and argues that horror the genre
at large is intrinsically tied to women, whether we're talking
(18:27):
about the final girl, the pregnant body as a vessel
for evil, like the monstrous feminine rape Revenge movies are
teenage girls having their first period and just wreaking havoc, yes.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Usually supernatural havoc. Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
And actually I'm really glad I found this piece because
it has that really resonated with me, and I'd never
really considered it before, but now I do think a
lot of horror is about is intrinsically linked to women.
I think that was very astute, for sure, and it
is very telling, as we were talking about earlier, that
(19:04):
we rarely see depictions of periods in our media, and
especially in my case, I literally cannot think of a
positive thing I've seen about the period. But when we do,
like most often, it is as a construct in a
horror movie.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
All right, So I think I must have watched a
lot more like coming of age movies, and of course
a lot of it was more horror, like, oh my god,
this happened. I also one of my favorite book, Judy
bloom books, just as long as We're Together, had us
seen him that as well, that it was fairly positive,
but it definitely makes out to be She became womanly overnight,
she grew hips and breasts and I'm like, how's that possible?
(19:40):
But back to this, so the big question why are
we so afraid of them? And obviously our emotions, come on,
we're so emotional. Donald Trump saying blood was coming out
of Meghan Kelly's oh you know wherever when she wasn't
nice to him was a great example of dude, how
old are you?
Speaker 4 (20:00):
And are you kidding me?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
And just pretty much saying giving the excuse, oh, she's
on her period to dismiss someone's.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Emotions so annoying.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Yes, And I've seen that played on TV shows repeatedly.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Yeah the month.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yeah, oh, that's right up there with one of my
biggest pet peeves, would take a chill pill. Never ever
say that to me. That's the opposite of a chill pill.
Is gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Damn, I'm going to remember that. Don't say this to Annie.
Take a note, don't say it during games and battles.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
Got it?
Speaker 1 (20:32):
This is and and the whole like r E PM
messing is at that time of the month is the equivalent?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Right? And I remember when I read it was for
this show.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
There was a study that came out that said, actually
there's not Actually there's not really that much definitive proof
that you become more emotional during your period. It might
be that you're cranky because you have cramps, right, and
you don't feel well, But it's it's not like.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
A switch for some women.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Maybe for some women definitely, but for most women, it's
not like some switch goes off and all of a sudden,
you're like a harpy, right, it's just maybe you're uncomfortable
and tired.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
You've become a shrill harpy. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
I think that's one of the perfect examples, because there
are people who suffer from PMDD and that's a whole
hormonal thing that affects your life, not just on your period.
And we know that, but like I will say, I
definitely had really strong PMS and really like strong symptoms
to the point that, you know, a younger, I was
looking at birth control pill because it was so it
affected my life so often, like every month it did.
(21:38):
But at the same time, it's not to the point
that I couldn't control myself.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
I throw things at people, right whatever.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Right, right.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
However, back to the emotions parts. Social media platforms sensoring
images of period blood as we know, and the hashtag
period pride response, which.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Some also see as problematic.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
So it is a back and forth conversation because I
I as someone who was born in the eighties and
growing up in the country and trying to figure all
of this out, because like I said, I did see
positive influences of that, but also this like shame factor
of that hiding the tampon, you know, making sure no
one saw if you bled on yourself, you know, all
those things. Yeah, not having my male counterpart or my
(22:18):
brothers were carrying tampons for me, you know, Oh well,
how dare you even being down that aisle?
Speaker 4 (22:23):
Bring some shame.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
But it does seem like the over exemplification of hey,
I'm gonna just wear blood everywhere. Like it it has
this thing like I do you get a little squeamish
about that? And I don't know if that's more so
of my in like ingrained this is shameful or just
like this doesn't compute as something that I have shown,
you know what, show off sure, you know. So it
(22:47):
is like this back and forth of like huh, And
I think people my generation have that same kind of
idea of like, yes, I'm not going to be hiding it,
but at the same time, I don't want to wear
my blood so everyone can see.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yeah, And just also the conversation around you know, people
who don't have periods, who are women, And that was
a couple of years ago when I remember this really
being a big thing, and I remember pieces of that conversation.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
So I think it's great that to have.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
That conversation that some people are like, no, have I period,
And I'm proud of it.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I'm all for that.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
But yes, always good to have those and make sure
we're being inclusive when we talked about things like that.
So another reason I think we're afraid of periods is religion.
And I have been watching a lot.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Of horror movies lately, a lot, a lot, a lot, and.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
I've realized a lot of our horror movies are religious
in nature. And I know we've talked about this, Samantha.
I don't know if I ever talked about it on
the show, but when I was young, I was very
very religious. I think I have talked about it, and
I would lie awake at night and think I'm going
to burn in hell. And then I was a bad person.
And I can see, especially in when we're talking about
(24:07):
older times, and religion back then, when you didn't understand
the world around you and you thought the period, your
period was shameful because it's in like religious text, then
it would be terrifying. Yeah, and you like the shame.
It's one thing like the shame I feel. But back
(24:30):
when I was a kid, if I had thought like
this was some sign of my impurity, right, and I
was going to burn in hell because of it?
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Right? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Wells it also puts this responsibility of my duty as
a woman who has now bled as two birth children,
because this is the only reason for it. If I'm
not using that ability, I'm sinning, which has been that
old school text in religion as well, and what providing
for a family looks like for women. But yeah, absolutely
carry the movie, which we'll talk about in a little bit,
(25:00):
it is the epitome of that whole idea.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, oh yeah. Another reason I think people are fraid
of ferias are we are afraid of women's bodies. We
see this with women's bodies as a vessel for evil,
the bad seed Satan himself, like Rosemary's baby.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Like being the mother of that.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
And I was thinking about that and more in depth,
and it's almost always it comes down to blaming the
mother in these movies or blaming the woman in these movies.
But often the mother, like especially in serial killer movies,
it's like, oh, yeah, it was the mom. She should
have done X, Y Z. And then I was like, well,
(25:44):
the final girl might be an exemption, but I feel
like the final Girl is here's this pure, innocent woman
who suffers and eventually a man will get No, like
she's being preserved for a man at a future dates,
which her precious, precious virginity which is why she survives,
(26:09):
is being preserved for some future man.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
Well, we know the sequels that come out.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
It's always never good, and it's a turn for her
trying to be a woman at this point.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah, you know, there's also this fear around the transition
into womanhood. We're very scared of young women, girls, young
girls becoming young women.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
We literally are afraid of fangirling.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
I think about that article I read all the time
where the it seemed legitimate.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
The author was like this terrifying trend among young girls
where they screamed together and lust after this man's calm down.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Not only do we not understand thanks to a long
lack of science changing hormones, our bodies. We also don't
understand like changing emotions. We're afraid of it. And we
see this in so many movies. And I know we've
been talking about this a lot lately, but I think
this is in part why all those father daughter posts
(27:06):
apocalyptic stories exist. Right, What could be more difficult and
terrifying and altruistic than a man trying to understand a
teenage girl.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
What are zombies compared to that?
Speaker 3 (27:18):
I mean the teenage boys you know, talk about porn, great,
talk about tell him how to fix a car, and
teenage girls though, oh no, oh.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
No, what do I do? She would never want to
learn how to fix a car?
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Right, She doesn't want to be a part of my life.
He doesn't want to watch sports with me. And that
is very, very generalization of men.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
I know, Yeah, absolutely, but I mean that's the problem too,
yeah mm hmm. And then yeah, like we said earlier
that the struggle between this idea that a period makes
a girl a woman while often still in a young
child's body, which is unsettling it can be at the
same time, this threatens the patriarch order of things. If
(28:00):
the young girl is becoming an independent from her father,
no longer needing him. Oh wow, then that's scary. She's independent,
what right? And that might also be why we see
this father daughter dynamic or our stand in father figure
protector in so much media. And I know we talked
in Survival Horror about this, but essentially, like, you can
(28:22):
have a strong female character in quotes that's really awesome,
but there's almost always a stronger male character that's protecting her, right.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Yeah, And it's a disillusioned father who kind of just
walks away.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah, And it's a marker of how good he is
if he stays around and protects her.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
But okay, we do have some examples for you. But
first we're gonna pause for a quick break or word
from our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you sponsor, And
(29:09):
we're back with Carrie.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
The iconic religious horror movie.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yes, and story of course.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Of course, this is probably one of the most iconic
examples of what we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
So this is Stephen King's Carrie.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
The book came out in nineteen seventy four, and the movie,
directed by Brian to Palma, debut two years later in
nineteen seventy six. Sissy Spacek starred as Carrie. It was
a shy, abused high school girl who was bullied by
both her religious mother and her classmates, and when she
gets her first period in the gym locker room, her
classmates mock her, they throw tampons at her, they shall
(29:46):
plug it up, and Carrie, who has never had any
of this explained to her, believed she was dying. Her
mom called it a sign of quote sinful sexual fantasies.
And this all happens to coincide with Carrie developing powers,
of course, telekinetic powers, which are symbolic of her becoming
(30:08):
a woman. When a cool prank leaves her doused in
pig's blood, representing her period, she turns those powers indiscriminately
on all in her path in a wave of terrifying
supernatural violence, as her mom washes the blood off her.
In the end, she reveals Carrie was the product of
a rape that her mother quote enjoyed, and that sin
(30:31):
never dies. Yeah, and I'd never seen this movie when
I wrote it, and I still haven't seen it, much
to Samantha's chagrin, But I did. I knew most of
this from memory, so it really left a mark on
our cultural psyche, and it received several awards. It received
several nominations and is regularly included on list of the
(30:55):
top horror movies of all time.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Right, yes, I was very sad to hear you say
someone who loves horror movies have not seen such an
iconic movie. You did say you read the book, so
I'll allow it. But this is definitely of a different beast.
Not only do you have an innocent girl or in
this I think she would be called a cinnamon roll
(31:18):
with a S I N in a M O N.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
Yes, we learned this.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
I learned this term because of Annie or a parked
cinnamon roll. You're welcome that develops dark telekinetic powers, but
a young girl who destroys an entire community without hesitating.
She goes from victim and turns into a psycho bitch trope.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
But there is a.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Second one as well, which I've never seen, but Annie, so.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
This is also part of Savantha's I seeing the second
Carrie Carrie to Rage Unleashed, I think I have not seen.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
The first one.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
I watched Carrie two for the soundtrack, which is just
as mayors as it sounds.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I still have a soundcheck all I.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Remember is like she was in a pretty red dress
at the end and some guy got there's a lot
of fire, and some guy was like in a pool
and that you know, the sheet came over it and
couldn't get out, and it really freaked me out.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Oh that's bad, Yeah for sure. Yeah, definitely fire cleansing
like that. There's a lot of like symbolism within the story.
We know this, between the blood and the fire and
the crucifixes as well as crucifying her mother essentially.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
So if you haven't seen this movie already.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Why haven't you any Sorry, but unless you don't like horror,
which is fine. Also, yes, we're talking about nineteen seventies movies,
so spoiler.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Alert, I guess if you have it heard about it
at all.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
But yeah, the whole idea with this is so symbolic
throughout it's pretty much hit you over the head. But
he does turn what would be the innocent victim into
a very quickly evil woman. Even the jump scared at
the end, which was fairly new, that kind of jump scare,
So it got me too when I watched it as
a kid. I think it was at a slumber party,
typical slumber party Oh my god, it's such a girl
(33:11):
trope right there. Yeah, and scared the hell out of us.
I think all the little girls screamed. We were in
seventh grade, sixth or seventh grade, we're like God because
of the perfect jump scare.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
But you do.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
It has this whole thing of you have characters who
are sympathetic and are really caring and in the end
really hope for the best for her and are so
excited for her.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
However she does not care. Everyone must go.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
It kind of has that this is everyone's fault, which
again kind of turns your view on her. Yea, even
when she does go home to her mom begging for
some sympathy and love and ends up getting you know,
almost murdered by her mother. And so it does have
this whole level of conversation of how do we see
these girls wire periods, the evil that comes upon us,
(33:58):
and then who in the end is innocent?
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Yeah, and I mean clearly we're I don't know if
oversimplifying is the right word, because there is a lot
going on. You know, you do have that religious aspect,
you do have to blame the mother aspect, and like
her becoming you can read it as she becomes a
woman and then yeah, it's a traumatic experience and then.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Unleashes this hell within her.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
But she also was abused, so there's that aspect of
it too. And when I was telling Samantha why I
haven't seen it, I do have an anxiety, like a
legit anxiety around this kind of horror that's like a
bullying abuse, religion, and like womanhood.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Because we talked about several movies you hadn't seen that
are more of the psycho bitstrope, and realizing you've not
seen any of those, even though they are considered horror.
For one, yep, which I'm still confused by, I will
say that, but it has a whole different layer of
your involving your psyche and your your darkest fears or
(35:10):
even personal experiences, which makes a whole lot more sense
of like, oh, I get it, this is why because I.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
Think Hush was one of them.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
We don't we're not going to talk about that, but
it's definitely like a murder thriller, stalker ish movie which
you don't really know much of this woman's background, but
you just watch it in real time essentially. So yeah,
but stuff like that you don't watch and the strangers,
which all have that fear, which in your mind, some
of these are based on true.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
Stories, so it's like this really could happen.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Yeah, I think that's what gets me.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
I think I really like I like the clear oh no,
this is not the real world stuff. Not that I
haven't watched plenty of those, but I think these are
because I.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Have these anxieties. They're so close to home. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
But speaking of like plague on your worst Fears and
Stephen King.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
I will say this is probably one of my biggest
fears and the reason why I am afraid of freaking
clowns is because of this movie. So Stephen Keen tackles
the fears of girls becoming women and the peer that
comes with it. Is it that so you have it
as a conversation about women imperiods. And I didn't really
think about it because I don't know if I've ever
(36:19):
finished the early series, like when it came out in
the early nineties, because I couldn't get past the clown
Tim Curry as the freaking clown and those teeth. Yeah,
But in the newer movies I did see it in
which they do talk about the main female character and
her period and her becoming a woman and then the
relationship she has with her father.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
So in the most recent movie of Beverly, Marsha's greatest
fear is that very thing and the pain it brought
her via the sexual abuse from her father. When he
discovered she had her first period, he said she was
a woman now and very creepily sniffed her hair. Is
a little different in the book, which I've never read
the book either, again, clown in a story.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
I was over it.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
And there's even a scene where she stares at a
wall of tampons and pass out a pharmacy before choosing one,
and then gets leered at by the older male pharmacist
when she checks out again.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
This is whole like, yeah, yeah, it's not just the
fact that.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
There's this almost invitation of like, I'm sexual now, which
is so untrue.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
I've definitely had this exact moment at the store where
it's a male cashier and they're checking you out and
they give you this look like yeah, yeah gross.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
And then one scene, Beverly is in the bathroom, which
was very horrifying, leaning over a sink with blood explodes
out from the drain, completely drenching her and the bathroom
in Crimson Blood. And honestly, I feel like I've seen
scenes like this a lot growing up, because I.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
Watched a lot of horror movies and it never clicked
with me.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Yeah, what that truly was representing, And like I thought
people just had a phobia about blood, which.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Is true, but this is the part of this whole thing.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
Yeah, yeah, absolute, They're like, oh God, you're bleeding and
there's no cause for it. This seems unnatural because we
see that as a warning of something bad is happening
to your body. This is repeated in chapter two, by
the way, I have not seen that win, when a
now adult Beverly is trapped in a bathroom stall as
blood gushes and rises around her, her father and the
pharmis is trying to break in.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
So if if somehow you're not familiar with it, it is
this alien entity that transforms into your greatest fear and
feeds on your fear. So and at the end of
chapter chapter two, they're all having to face their greatest fears.
And so now Beverly as an adult, there's just blood
all around her, and these men who kind of tormented
(38:43):
her made her this object of sexual fantasy when she
was young, or trying to get into the bathroom stall.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
And you know, apparently Stephen King has some kind.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Of uh I guess he likes coming of age things
in general, and right coming.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Out stand by me as one of his like sweet movies, yeah,
about boys coming together, but then also death.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Yeah, but it's just interesting that these examples do involve
the period so much. And then you know the Shining Everybody,
which notoriously he hates that movie, but that scene with
all the blood coming out, everybody uses that as a
joking gift, like, my period's here, right right. Yeah, But
(39:26):
let's move on from Stephen King from now and talk
about Ginger Snaps, which is.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
A movie I love.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
I love that movie.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
So this was made in two thousand and It marries
a teenage girl getting her first period with her becoming
a werewolf, like getting hair in new places, acting out
of character, more volatile, painting her sexuality in a very
monstrous way. But it's very self aware, it's on purpose.
It's definitely commenting on this whole thing of when you
(39:53):
get your period, when you become a woman, then you
become this monster, like a werewolf. The movie's tagline is
they don't call it the Curse for nothing.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
So have you seen any of the sequels?
Speaker 1 (40:06):
No?
Speaker 4 (40:07):
Yeah, I haven't either. I haven't either.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
I'm just afraid of sequels, which is why I'm always
horrified and when people watch it out of sync because
it's not as good.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Typically sometimes sometimes there you know what I think I
feel like in trilogy is the second one is better
usually but.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Not a planned Yes, I feel like it's planned more
likely however.
Speaker 4 (40:29):
But yeah, the.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Main character of this movie is actually in the Netflix.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
Series about were wolves. Oh really witches.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
Yes, yes, I thought that was hilarious because I've not
seen her much recently in many things, but people who
are very very iconic and noticeable, and to me in
the whole, like loving horror movies, she's iconic. The young girl.
She plays this character as a witch. She's not a
were wolf. But the fact that she's in this movie
always like ah, tongue in cheek type of thing may
(40:59):
not be on purpose whatever, But if you haven't seen
this movie, you absolutely should.
Speaker 4 (41:03):
And if you like horror movies, yes then yes.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
The crash it was really funny because we had our
listener Cat Hey Kat, send us a link on Twitter
about the remake of the Craft, and as soon as
she did that, I think it was a few days
later that the.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
Trailer came out.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
And of course one of the big scenes is a
period scene which is not really like it's I don't
know if it's part of the movie obviously we haven't
seen it, but this was definitely not a part of
the original Craft, so we it was interesting, So shout
out to that, and I wonder what this is synchronous?
Speaker 1 (41:35):
It was odd, right, we were like literally researching this
every night.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Happened.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
So we do have a little bit more for you listeners,
but first we have one more quick break for word
from our sponsor, and we're back.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Thank you sponsor. And we just wanted to wrap this up,
I suppose.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
So when I was thinking about this and doing the research,
I do think horror movies at large, when I joke
about semi joke about how they're all about male writers
fears around periods, I think what I actually mean is
they're all about male writers fears, and you know, all
of our fears around women and periods have often been
(42:31):
symbolic of womanhood. Now again, I know we've been hopefully
in what was clearly a vocal air quote saying becoming
a woman. We've been saying that throughout but again, you
don't have to have periods to become a woman. But
it is something that we've seen in our culture and
in our.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Media a lot.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
And I do think the horror genre is intrinsically tied
to women and our fears around it.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
That just makes sense to me.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
I don't think i'd ever really put it together like
I'd always sent like, this genre is about final girls,
and this genre is about pregnant women giving birth to
evil babies. And you know, I never thought about, in
like the whole scheme of horror, how much.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Of it is about women girls.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Because yeah, you and I have had many conversations because
I love those movies about you know, hauntings and you know,
possessions and all of that, because it's nice and scared.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
But when you look at it, a chunk of it
has to do.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
With a mother who's lost a baby who's haunting someone,
or a mother who didn't who didn't want children and
sacrifice them, is haunting someone.
Speaker 4 (43:35):
And it's always the mother.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
It's always the mother doing something, whether it's going after
the mother or the mother is going after a child.
It's very link, but it is it's that whole overall.
It's not just one generation of things, it's all the things.
So when we talk about and we're going too soon,
we're talking about them fatales.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
That's the single woman. Oh my god, be.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
Scared, terrified, terrifying. I strike so much fear in the hearts.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Of men, and all of the points that we've discussed
in our previous episodes on horror movies, there's been this
tension of badass final girls, or you know, even in
video games, we're talking about badass protagonists that you can play,
but a lot of the messaging behind them is still
(44:21):
very rigid and sexist. These pieces of entertainment are primarily
created by men, not at all, not all of them.
There are some amazing women creating in this genre and
also primarily created for the male gaze.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
So it's empowering in a way that.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Women's bodies do inspire so much fear, but that's only
because women's and girls' bodies have been so stigmatized throughout history.
And when you think about how these movies and pieces
of entertainment do reflect real world fears, largely male fears
that still impact and shame so many women to this day,
that still keep women marginalized. It's a different story. Yeah,
(45:04):
you just have to.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
I've always had that weird tension, especially when I did
one of the first episodes I did on this show
is about Final Girls, and I got so torn about
it because you are getting this messaging that you know,
to survive, to be a good woman, you have to
be a virgin and like not smoke, not drink, and
be white and brown hair. And you know, they survive,
but they survive in this like patriarchal definition, and they're
(45:30):
terrorized for it, Like they're tormented for it, and they
lose everything for it. And another piece of this I
do think is not even taking the time to understand women,
especially if they don't fit the demure caricature we're supposed
to fit in.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Like again, you know, she's mad at me, she must
be possessed or on her period.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Any behavior that's not fitting into this patriarchal, like gender
conforming box is threatening and scary and something to be
punish because horror movies are largely about punishment for breaking
societal norms right or in this case, and the one
we're talking about today for being a woman at all.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
Or it's a cautionary tale of if you do this,
this is what happens to you.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Yeah, your sexuality will get you punished unless you do
it in the right quote unquote way.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
So, I guess we have a lot to say about
horror movies and periods.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
But that's well. We'll stop for today for.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Today, but continue on because it is October and we
love these themes.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Yes, yes, yes we do.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
And I know there's so many other movies we could
have talked about, so if we missed one, please send
it our way. You can email us at Stuff Media,
mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us
on Instagram at stuff I've Never Told You or on
Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks it's always to our
super producer Andrew Howard, and thanks to you for listening.
Stephan Never Told You is a protection of iHeartRadio. For
(46:59):
more podcas as from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio at
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff
I never told you projection of iHeartRadio, and today we
are bringing you a classic because of scheduling, sickness, all
(00:25):
kinds of stuff, which is kind of fitting I for
the classic I wanted to bring back today because this
is one of the best puns I've ever made, in
my opinion, It's about supernatural menstruation in horror. And I know,
(00:48):
like we're getting a little ahead of ourselves.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
You know, we love good horror. We love Halloween.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I especially love Halloween and Fall, and we're getting a
little bit ahead of ourselves. But I have been thinking
about this lately because, as we mentioned in our recent
con Dragon Con wrap up episode, a lot of people
were dressed as horror like more than normal for Dragon Con.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
But I've also seen a lot of horror movies lately.
I know this is a press surprise, but I have
seen a lot of horror movies lately.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
They were coming out in droves right now, like yees,
so many horror movies.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
So many horror movies.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
And I read a whole article about like companies being
surprised at how well their horror was doing.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
All their like horror movies.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Just some things that they thought would just flop have
really taken off.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
And you know that I'm there watching them.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Them all.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
There's one hold out that gonna I'm gonna watch this weekend.
We'll see.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I did want to mention I brought it up before.
Deep bluesy Okay is a bad movie. It's really bad,
but it's on my good bad Movies list, and it's
inspired a new topic I want to talk about because
it's like their twenty fifth anniversary, so I don't know,
it's some anniversary. And the director was saying, like people
(02:15):
are now calling for the original ending to be released,
and I was like, the original ending, So I investigated
and there.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I knew it.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
I knew the Ladies Scientist wasn't supposed to die.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I knew it.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
They always felt kind of off to me in the
original ending. She doesn't die spoilers. I guess that movie's old.
But they said on exit interviews everyone was like that
she needs to die, so they killed her off. They
reached the ending, and I want to come back and
revisit that, which I know you've seen the outline and
it looks really ominous, like deserves to die as the title,
(02:55):
Oh okay.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
I was like, you know what this, Yes, but I
feel like.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
That kind of mindset of like, when a man does it,
it's all right, he deserves this redemption arc.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
When a woman does it serves to die.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
If you've never seen Deep Lucy, she was a scientist
that made some questionable ethical choices, but does have a
journey of realizing she did wrong.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Oh I know nothing about this really bad. It's supposedly
good movie, so okay.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Yeah, well we're going to do a whole It might
be a mini it might be a whole episode about it.
But I was also thinking about bringing this one back
because there's been a lot of articles in my very
niche circle about possession in horror movies and what it
represents and why we get it wrong a lot in
(03:49):
terms of who were having possessed, why they're possessed, all
that stuff. So I want to come back and talk
about that too, which is another outline you might have
seen that might have made you nervous.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
The title like extracism.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Oh yeah, okay, yeah, but I thought it was fitting
with you know, approaching this season, but also we are
approaching slowly but steadily the end of our long religious mini.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Series coming is coming. It is just long awaited, my
flat conclusion.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
But it is coming, yes, But in the meantime, please
enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and Samantha
and welcome to Stefan Never Told your production of iHeartRadio.
(04:49):
For today's question, I'm asking one that I guess I
kind of talked about a little bit before. But do
you remember when you got your first period?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I do.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
I was twelve years old, and I had been and
excited about it, mainly because I've watched way too many
sitcoms about how this is a celebration of womanhood and
how this is such a big deal.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
And I'm thinking my mom's gonna at least give me,
like I.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Don't know, a present of soores that tells me about it. Instead,
I got sent to my nurses office, who handed me
a pad. Who I went home and my mom was like, okay,
well I'll buy you some pads and that was the
end of the story.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
And I was like, cool, cool, cool.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
And then after that I probably had some of the
worst crams ever and I hated everything.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Everything.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Yeah, and it took a little while before I started
wearing tampons, But man, those pads were so uncomfortable and gross.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah, I was nine and we were going we were
going to a field trip to the Fox Theater. Oh yeah, yeah,
to go see the Nutcracker.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
And I was very, very excited.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
And my teacher came up to me and put her
hand on my shoulder and like whispered in my ear, honey,
I have to talk to you. And it was as
though someone had died, like she was breaking the news
that someone had died and I had to go home,
and like I was wearing khakis, so it was really
obvious bloodstain. And yeah, I know I've talked about it before,
(06:24):
but I thought you only got it once. So I
was like at hurt and I had horrible cramps, but
I got to stay home and I got Arby's.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I remember getting RV's nice.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
So I did have a celebration. That's nice.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yeah, And I you know, I didn't realize it was
a real thing, and I did do the thing where
I thought I was dying at first, but then it
was explained to me.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
So the second time I got my period was much much.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Worse when I realized, oh this is oh right, oh no.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Right, why why is it continuing to happen.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah. Oh, but yeah, today were finally talking about something
I've wanted to talk about forever.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
It's happening, and we're.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Talking about my theory that almost all horror movies are
secretly about male writers and their fear of female bodies
and particularly periods.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Yes, I think.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I guess this is kind of like a two parter
because the next one is kind of on that same
idea at least sexuality.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah, I had a real revelation researching this that it's
you know, it's female bodies, but it's also just women horror.
The genre is almost all about our fear of women.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
I mean that's fair.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, they should be, damn right.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
But yes, note obviously not all women have periods, and
we are being hearted about this. And again, not all
people who have periods are women, and we acknowledge that,
and that is a thing, and it is all true,
and we understand and respect that.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
But for this specifically, we are.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Talking about women's bodies, especially when we talk about the
old school horror movies who really really, really really really
were afraid of women.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Oh yeah, and as we record this and as you
listen to it, if you're listening to it when it
first came out.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
It's October. Happy Halloween, I know, my favorite time.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
It's October first, actually the day we're recording this, and
I'm already like, should I get a pumpkin? No?
Speaker 3 (08:20):
I was trying to get a pumpkin two weeks ago
and told someone told me no, like at the store.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Yeah, because they were there, and I liked the little
mini pumpkins. I love those. I'm putting Gogle.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Eyes on there, like, oh wow, that's my Jacqueline Arns,
essentially a little mini ones, and they're like smite the no.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
I want it.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
What touch to me is I don't want it to
rot before Halloween. And also.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Now that I'm getting so many groceries at once, it
was a lot to carry, right, and I am someone
who tries to make what I don't like to go
back and forth from my car to my apartment. That's ridiculous.
One trip, one trip. Ant.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Yes, I'm like, that's than your nickname.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
By the way, I definitely had two of my mini
pumpkins sitting on my balcony.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
For two years.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Wow. And they didn't die.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
They didn't the last time. Actually, producer Andrew was here
over the house. So this was a while ago over here,
and he and my partner went out and they were like,
what is this And one had slowly started to decay
and the other one was okay, but I think they
had gotten.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Stuck to the railing of my bandness.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Oh wow. And when they took it off, they threw
it into the yard because you know, that's what you
do with gords, right, And apparently it was disgusting, like
the inside of it was really gross, but it was intact.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Wow, that's a shame. It was almost a part of
your apartment.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Hus It kind of did grow into my apartment. And
look what you did, yell ruined my life.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Happy Hallow reen.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Yes, yes to the topic at hand.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
People and particularly dudes, I would say, I've been afraid
of women's bodies and their periods forever.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Throughout history.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Periods have been viewed as a mark of womanhood, are
something shameful and even evil, something that you hide. Some
historians believe a few religions may have developed in part
due to disgust and fear around periods. Numerous superstitions about
periods have sprung up all over the world, like don't
bake bread while you're on your period.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Don't go to a funeral on your period, don't.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Call a man on the phone on your period, of
heaven forbid, as well as etiquette rules often preventing girls
and women from interacting with boys and men during menstruation,
which I thought was when I think about that, that's
so interesting to me. It's like this passing of sin.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
And there is also minophobia, which is legit phobia, fear
of periods, and just the fact that we call it
the curse, which I will say is I kind of
jokingly been reclaimed I feel like in a lot of spaces,
but uh, that wasn't always the case.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Well, and like I said, in my little generation, it
was blooming really womanhood.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Yeah you bloomed.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Oh wow, I never ever encountered.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
It's fascinating to me when you say you saw like
these positive are like humorous, perhaps it's better word depictions.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
I never it was always a bad thing to me.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah, I've only seen it as a bad thing. As
I was researching this, I was trying to think of
one example where it wasn't portrayed as just like terribly
negative or something to fear right, And I think.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
It's also the whole like positive or the comedy wasn't
necessarily just a positive. It was literally turning in sexualizing
and adulting, making a child an adult by a marker
which you are nine, you are not a woman, but
they would say you are now becoming a woman. Me
at twelve, who's still you know, a little older. That
is not the age of becoming a woman. But that's
(12:02):
absolutely a backtrack idea of women getting birth and when
they are able to mate, and so they'refore sold off
to know, you are now able to have babies, you
have reached your adulthood.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Here you go.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
So it's not necessarily it's like at the reclaiming, but
it is this backwards idea of why we were called
to being a woman and being now seen sexual because
we've become able to be impregnated essentially, So it's a positive.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
But a negative but a negative.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, well, and I think that's a lot of our
tension around it.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
We're going to talk about that a little bit more,
but kind of this tension of we have called it's
for so long a mark of womanhood, but in times
it's like with me, I was nine and clearly not right,
but there's like this idea is still there, and I
do want to say, like, we're not obviously going into
a history of people's views on periods. And there's been
(12:53):
several episodes past hosts have done on like superstitions around
periods or history of our our beliefs around them, and
there are some cultures where the period is celebrated. So
I just I want to put that out there. But today,
because we're focusing on like the horror movie aspect of it,
we're not going to do an exhaustive history, but that
(13:15):
that does exist, like it's not so feared everywhere, but
going back to when it was feared in Jewish tradition
to blame for the curse and the less fun aspects
of childbirth less than fun, shall we say our place
solely on Eve's shoulders. Of course, the taal mood has
(13:38):
this dire warning if a me instrument woman passes between
two men, if it is at the beginning of her mencies,
she will slay one of them, and if it is
at the end of her minsies, she will cause strife
between them.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Well, damn, if I even had that much power to
start walking in between some chosen then.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Can you imagine like men scattering.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
My god, I would just be streaming the all time
I'm menstrating, and then try to go in between all
men so.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Parting like a wave, and then like them shouting.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
What part of period is she on? Where are you?
You will never know?
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Fear me right.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
So meanwhile, Livedicus describes periods as ritual impurity, labeling the
menstrating women as impure in anyone or anything that touches
her unclean until the evening comes, which is hilarious to this.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Like time frame of when this could be.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
So not only is this girl or woman on her
period impure, that impurity was believed to be transferable by touch.
So haha, this is the beginning of like a zombie
apocalypse is actually the period?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, you know what I say, it's fat luck.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Our modern reaction to it is enlightening in a way
because in theory, like we're acting as though this is
a great power, which is fun to imagine, and people
were running from as afraid. But at this time I
imagine women were afraid of this too, and that it's
like you don't want to cause strife between men, like
heaven forbid, and you don't want a man to strike
himself down.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Not that there weren't women. I'm sure that did.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
They're okay with it, yeah, but I know that it
was not just isolated two men that women were afraid to.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Well. Also, that also brings on a bigger shame factor.
And if you cass, are you a witch? Are you
like impure?
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Who are you?
Speaker 3 (15:24):
And so just having a period says your impirer, says
your sinful?
Speaker 4 (15:28):
So of course has that shame level to that as well.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Well. It's really insidious when you think about it, because
it's basically it's saying, these two men get in a fight,
blame that woman if she's menstruating, right, never holding men
accountable for their actions.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
As per usual.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
So many religious scripts prohibit sex during periods and also
recommend that cleansing back to wash off the impurity once
the period is over. And by the way, that still
holds true today. I know a lot of people kind
of hold two that you're not supposed to be having sex.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
I was actually taught that as a kid, that.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
It was biblical to not have sex and that it
was imperiod, have sex durined period.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
And even in my mind, there's this whole level of
like Ooh, that's kind of gross.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Wow. See I just kind of assumed you wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
And then I mentioned that to a good friend of
mine in college and she's like, well, i've heard it's
actually really great.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
I was like, oh, homoies.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Are all over the place at this time, we know this.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
But yeah, actually I was told that as a kid,
and I don't even think it was one of my
female relatives who told me, yeah, it's gross, you shouldn't
do this. And she was an adult believing this, So
I was like, oh, okay. In some sex of Orthodox
Christianity still forbidminstrating women from receiving communions. I can't imagine
that conversation to come and be like, ah, I can't
(16:46):
take part and communion today Church, I'm all my period.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
That does sound so again shameful of Like people are
going to know that you're on your period, right, you
have to tell them assume that you are, Like, you
don't have to say a thing the fact that you
didn't take communion.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Oh, either you're a devil worshiper or you're on your period,
or both or both, which is so During Ramadan, however,
women on their period may be exempt from fasting, so
that seems at least reasonable.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah, yeah, And again, like it's so much we could
talk about if we were specifically focusing on all of
the ways around the world the period is viewed and treated.
But we are talking about horror movies today, and we've
talked about before how horror movies are a really great
reflection of what scares us as a society, and clearly
(17:44):
we're afraid periods so much so it almost qualifies as
its own horror subgenre. That's called supernatural period horror. That's perfect,
which I mentioned to a guy friend the other day
and he was like, are you talking about like a
horrmon be taking place in like the sixteen hundreds, And
I was like, no, but.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I see how you thought that.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I'll see how you thought that, Like pioc gotcha exactly exactly.
So Emily Soderback has actually written a whole piece on
this called Ghoul You'll be a Woman Soon, Supernatural Puberty
in the Horror of Periods, and she goes a step
further in this article and argues that horror the genre
at large is intrinsically tied to women, whether we're talking
(18:27):
about the final girl, the pregnant body as a vessel
for evil, like the monstrous feminine rape Revenge movies are
teenage girls having their first period and just wreaking havoc, yes.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Usually supernatural havoc. Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
And actually I'm really glad I found this piece because
it has that really resonated with me, and I'd never
really considered it before, but now I do think a
lot of horror is about is intrinsically linked to women.
I think that was very astute, for sure, and it
is very telling, as we were talking about earlier, that
(19:04):
we rarely see depictions of periods in our media, and
especially in my case, I literally cannot think of a
positive thing I've seen about the period. But when we do,
like most often, it is as a construct in a
horror movie.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
All right, So I think I must have watched a
lot more like coming of age movies, and of course
a lot of it was more horror, like, oh my god,
this happened. I also one of my favorite book, Judy
bloom books, just as long as We're Together, had us
seen him that as well, that it was fairly positive,
but it definitely makes out to be She became womanly overnight,
she grew hips and breasts and I'm like, how's that possible?
(19:40):
But back to this, so the big question why are
we so afraid of them? And obviously our emotions, come on,
we're so emotional. Donald Trump saying blood was coming out
of Meghan Kelly's oh you know wherever when she wasn't
nice to him was a great example of dude, how
old are you?
Speaker 4 (20:00):
And are you kidding me?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
And just pretty much saying giving the excuse, oh, she's
on her period to dismiss someone's.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Emotions so annoying.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Yes, And I've seen that played on TV shows repeatedly.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Yeah the month.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yeah, oh, that's right up there with one of my
biggest pet peeves, would take a chill pill. Never ever
say that to me. That's the opposite of a chill pill.
Is gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Damn, I'm going to remember that. Don't say this to Annie.
Take a note, don't say it during games and battles.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
Got it?
Speaker 1 (20:32):
This is and and the whole like r E PM
messing is at that time of the month is the equivalent?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Right? And I remember when I read it was for
this show.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
There was a study that came out that said, actually
there's not Actually there's not really that much definitive proof
that you become more emotional during your period. It might
be that you're cranky because you have cramps, right, and
you don't feel well, But it's it's not like.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
A switch for some women.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Maybe for some women definitely, but for most women, it's
not like some switch goes off and all of a sudden,
you're like a harpy, right, it's just maybe you're uncomfortable
and tired.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
You've become a shrill harpy. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
I think that's one of the perfect examples, because there
are people who suffer from PMDD and that's a whole
hormonal thing that affects your life, not just on your period.
And we know that, but like I will say, I
definitely had really strong PMS and really like strong symptoms
to the point that, you know, a younger, I was
looking at birth control pill because it was so it
affected my life so often, like every month it did.
(21:38):
But at the same time, it's not to the point
that I couldn't control myself.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
I throw things at people, right whatever.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Right, right.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
However, back to the emotions parts. Social media platforms sensoring
images of period blood as we know, and the hashtag
period pride response, which.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Some also see as problematic.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
So it is a back and forth conversation because I
I as someone who was born in the eighties and
growing up in the country and trying to figure all
of this out, because like I said, I did see
positive influences of that, but also this like shame factor
of that hiding the tampon, you know, making sure no
one saw if you bled on yourself, you know, all
those things. Yeah, not having my male counterpart or my
(22:18):
brothers were carrying tampons for me, you know, Oh well,
how dare you even being down that aisle?
Speaker 4 (22:23):
Bring some shame.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
But it does seem like the over exemplification of hey,
I'm gonna just wear blood everywhere. Like it it has
this thing like I do you get a little squeamish
about that? And I don't know if that's more so
of my in like ingrained this is shameful or just
like this doesn't compute as something that I have shown,
you know what, show off sure, you know. So it
(22:47):
is like this back and forth of like huh, And
I think people my generation have that same kind of
idea of like, yes, I'm not going to be hiding it,
but at the same time, I don't want to wear
my blood so everyone can see.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yeah, And just also the conversation around you know, people
who don't have periods, who are women, And that was
a couple of years ago when I remember this really
being a big thing, and I remember pieces of that conversation.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
So I think it's great that to have.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
That conversation that some people are like, no, have I period,
And I'm proud of it.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I'm all for that.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
But yes, always good to have those and make sure
we're being inclusive when we talked about things like that.
So another reason I think we're afraid of periods is religion.
And I have been watching a lot.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Of horror movies lately, a lot, a lot, a lot, and.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
I've realized a lot of our horror movies are religious
in nature. And I know we've talked about this, Samantha.
I don't know if I ever talked about it on
the show, but when I was young, I was very
very religious. I think I have talked about it, and
I would lie awake at night and think I'm going
to burn in hell. And then I was a bad person.
And I can see, especially in when we're talking about
(24:07):
older times, and religion back then, when you didn't understand
the world around you and you thought the period, your
period was shameful because it's in like religious text, then
it would be terrifying. Yeah, and you like the shame.
It's one thing like the shame I feel. But back
(24:30):
when I was a kid, if I had thought like
this was some sign of my impurity, right, and I
was going to burn in hell because of it?
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Right? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Wells it also puts this responsibility of my duty as
a woman who has now bled as two birth children,
because this is the only reason for it. If I'm
not using that ability, I'm sinning, which has been that
old school text in religion as well, and what providing
for a family looks like for women. But yeah, absolutely
carry the movie, which we'll talk about in a little bit,
(25:00):
it is the epitome of that whole idea.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, oh yeah. Another reason I think people are fraid
of ferias are we are afraid of women's bodies. We
see this with women's bodies as a vessel for evil,
the bad seed Satan himself, like Rosemary's baby.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Like being the mother of that.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
And I was thinking about that and more in depth,
and it's almost always it comes down to blaming the
mother in these movies or blaming the woman in these movies.
But often the mother, like especially in serial killer movies,
it's like, oh, yeah, it was the mom. She should
have done X, Y Z. And then I was like, well,
(25:44):
the final girl might be an exemption, but I feel
like the final Girl is here's this pure, innocent woman
who suffers and eventually a man will get No, like
she's being preserved for a man at a future dates,
which her precious, precious virginity which is why she survives,
(26:09):
is being preserved for some future man.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
Well, we know the sequels that come out.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
It's always never good, and it's a turn for her
trying to be a woman at this point.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah, you know, there's also this fear around the transition
into womanhood. We're very scared of young women, girls, young
girls becoming young women.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
We literally are afraid of fangirling.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
I think about that article I read all the time
where the it seemed legitimate.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
The author was like this terrifying trend among young girls
where they screamed together and lust after this man's calm down.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Not only do we not understand thanks to a long
lack of science changing hormones, our bodies. We also don't
understand like changing emotions. We're afraid of it. And we
see this in so many movies. And I know we've
been talking about this a lot lately, but I think
this is in part why all those father daughter posts
(27:06):
apocalyptic stories exist. Right, What could be more difficult and
terrifying and altruistic than a man trying to understand a
teenage girl.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
What are zombies compared to that?
Speaker 3 (27:18):
I mean the teenage boys you know, talk about porn, great,
talk about tell him how to fix a car, and
teenage girls though, oh no, oh.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
No, what do I do? She would never want to
learn how to fix a car?
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Right, She doesn't want to be a part of my life.
He doesn't want to watch sports with me. And that
is very, very generalization of men.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
I know, Yeah, absolutely, but I mean that's the problem too,
yeah mm hmm. And then yeah, like we said earlier
that the struggle between this idea that a period makes
a girl a woman while often still in a young
child's body, which is unsettling it can be at the
same time, this threatens the patriarch order of things. If
(28:00):
the young girl is becoming an independent from her father,
no longer needing him. Oh wow, then that's scary. She's independent,
what right? And that might also be why we see
this father daughter dynamic or our stand in father figure
protector in so much media. And I know we talked
in Survival Horror about this, but essentially, like, you can
(28:22):
have a strong female character in quotes that's really awesome,
but there's almost always a stronger male character that's protecting her, right.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Yeah, And it's a disillusioned father who kind of just
walks away.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah, And it's a marker of how good he is
if he stays around and protects her.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
But okay, we do have some examples for you. But
first we're gonna pause for a quick break or word
from our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you sponsor, And
(29:09):
we're back with Carrie.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
The iconic religious horror movie.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yes, and story of course.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Of course, this is probably one of the most iconic
examples of what we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
So this is Stephen King's Carrie.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
The book came out in nineteen seventy four, and the movie,
directed by Brian to Palma, debut two years later in
nineteen seventy six. Sissy Spacek starred as Carrie. It was
a shy, abused high school girl who was bullied by
both her religious mother and her classmates, and when she
gets her first period in the gym locker room, her
classmates mock her, they throw tampons at her, they shall
(29:46):
plug it up, and Carrie, who has never had any
of this explained to her, believed she was dying. Her
mom called it a sign of quote sinful sexual fantasies.
And this all happens to coincide with Carrie developing powers,
of course, telekinetic powers, which are symbolic of her becoming
(30:08):
a woman. When a cool prank leaves her doused in
pig's blood, representing her period, she turns those powers indiscriminately
on all in her path in a wave of terrifying
supernatural violence, as her mom washes the blood off her.
In the end, she reveals Carrie was the product of
a rape that her mother quote enjoyed, and that sin
(30:31):
never dies. Yeah, and I'd never seen this movie when
I wrote it, and I still haven't seen it, much
to Samantha's chagrin, But I did. I knew most of
this from memory, so it really left a mark on
our cultural psyche, and it received several awards. It received
several nominations and is regularly included on list of the
(30:55):
top horror movies of all time.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Right, yes, I was very sad to hear you say
someone who loves horror movies have not seen such an
iconic movie. You did say you read the book, so
I'll allow it. But this is definitely of a different beast.
Not only do you have an innocent girl or in
this I think she would be called a cinnamon roll
(31:18):
with a S I N in a M O N.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
Yes, we learned this.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
I learned this term because of Annie or a parked
cinnamon roll. You're welcome that develops dark telekinetic powers, but
a young girl who destroys an entire community without hesitating.
She goes from victim and turns into a psycho bitch trope.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
But there is a.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Second one as well, which I've never seen, but Annie, so.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
This is also part of Savantha's I seeing the second
Carrie Carrie to Rage Unleashed, I think I have not seen.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
The first one.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
I watched Carrie two for the soundtrack, which is just
as mayors as it sounds.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I still have a soundcheck all I.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Remember is like she was in a pretty red dress
at the end and some guy got there's a lot
of fire, and some guy was like in a pool
and that you know, the sheet came over it and
couldn't get out, and it really freaked me out.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Oh that's bad, Yeah for sure. Yeah, definitely fire cleansing
like that. There's a lot of like symbolism within the story.
We know this, between the blood and the fire and
the crucifixes as well as crucifying her mother essentially.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
So if you haven't seen this movie already.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Why haven't you any Sorry, but unless you don't like horror,
which is fine. Also, yes, we're talking about nineteen seventies movies,
so spoiler.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Alert, I guess if you have it heard about it
at all.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
But yeah, the whole idea with this is so symbolic
throughout it's pretty much hit you over the head. But
he does turn what would be the innocent victim into
a very quickly evil woman. Even the jump scared at
the end, which was fairly new, that kind of jump scare,
So it got me too when I watched it as
a kid. I think it was at a slumber party,
typical slumber party Oh my god, it's such a girl
(33:11):
trope right there. Yeah, and scared the hell out of us.
I think all the little girls screamed. We were in
seventh grade, sixth or seventh grade, we're like God because
of the perfect jump scare.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
But you do.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
It has this whole thing of you have characters who
are sympathetic and are really caring and in the end
really hope for the best for her and are so
excited for her.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
However she does not care. Everyone must go.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
It kind of has that this is everyone's fault, which
again kind of turns your view on her. Yea, even
when she does go home to her mom begging for
some sympathy and love and ends up getting you know,
almost murdered by her mother. And so it does have
this whole level of conversation of how do we see
these girls wire periods, the evil that comes upon us,
(33:58):
and then who in the end is innocent?
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Yeah, and I mean clearly we're I don't know if
oversimplifying is the right word, because there is a lot
going on. You know, you do have that religious aspect,
you do have to blame the mother aspect, and like
her becoming you can read it as she becomes a
woman and then yeah, it's a traumatic experience and then.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Unleashes this hell within her.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
But she also was abused, so there's that aspect of
it too. And when I was telling Samantha why I
haven't seen it, I do have an anxiety, like a
legit anxiety around this kind of horror that's like a
bullying abuse, religion, and like womanhood.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Because we talked about several movies you hadn't seen that
are more of the psycho bitstrope, and realizing you've not
seen any of those, even though they are considered horror.
For one, yep, which I'm still confused by, I will
say that, but it has a whole different layer of
your involving your psyche and your your darkest fears or
(35:10):
even personal experiences, which makes a whole lot more sense
of like, oh, I get it, this is why because I.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
Think Hush was one of them.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
We don't we're not going to talk about that, but
it's definitely like a murder thriller, stalker ish movie which
you don't really know much of this woman's background, but
you just watch it in real time essentially. So yeah,
but stuff like that you don't watch and the strangers,
which all have that fear, which in your mind, some
of these are based on true.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
Stories, so it's like this really could happen.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Yeah, I think that's what gets me.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
I think I really like I like the clear oh no,
this is not the real world stuff. Not that I
haven't watched plenty of those, but I think these are
because I.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Have these anxieties. They're so close to home. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
But speaking of like plague on your worst Fears and
Stephen King.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
I will say this is probably one of my biggest
fears and the reason why I am afraid of freaking
clowns is because of this movie. So Stephen Keen tackles
the fears of girls becoming women and the peer that
comes with it. Is it that so you have it
as a conversation about women imperiods. And I didn't really
think about it because I don't know if I've ever
(36:19):
finished the early series, like when it came out in
the early nineties, because I couldn't get past the clown
Tim Curry as the freaking clown and those teeth. Yeah,
But in the newer movies I did see it in
which they do talk about the main female character and
her period and her becoming a woman and then the
relationship she has with her father.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
So in the most recent movie of Beverly, Marsha's greatest
fear is that very thing and the pain it brought
her via the sexual abuse from her father. When he
discovered she had her first period, he said she was
a woman now and very creepily sniffed her hair. Is
a little different in the book, which I've never read
the book either, again, clown in a story.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
I was over it.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
And there's even a scene where she stares at a
wall of tampons and pass out a pharmacy before choosing one,
and then gets leered at by the older male pharmacist
when she checks out again.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
This is whole like, yeah, yeah, it's not just the
fact that.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
There's this almost invitation of like, I'm sexual now, which
is so untrue.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
I've definitely had this exact moment at the store where
it's a male cashier and they're checking you out and
they give you this look like yeah, yeah gross.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
And then one scene, Beverly is in the bathroom, which
was very horrifying, leaning over a sink with blood explodes
out from the drain, completely drenching her and the bathroom
in Crimson Blood. And honestly, I feel like I've seen
scenes like this a lot growing up, because I.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
Watched a lot of horror movies and it never clicked
with me.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Yeah, what that truly was representing, And like I thought
people just had a phobia about blood, which.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Is true, but this is the part of this whole thing.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
Yeah, yeah, absolute, They're like, oh God, you're bleeding and
there's no cause for it. This seems unnatural because we
see that as a warning of something bad is happening
to your body. This is repeated in chapter two, by
the way, I have not seen that win, when a
now adult Beverly is trapped in a bathroom stall as
blood gushes and rises around her, her father and the
pharmis is trying to break in.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
So if if somehow you're not familiar with it, it is
this alien entity that transforms into your greatest fear and
feeds on your fear. So and at the end of
chapter chapter two, they're all having to face their greatest fears.
And so now Beverly as an adult, there's just blood
all around her, and these men who kind of tormented
(38:43):
her made her this object of sexual fantasy when she
was young, or trying to get into the bathroom stall.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
And you know, apparently Stephen King has some kind.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Of uh I guess he likes coming of age things
in general, and right coming.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Out stand by me as one of his like sweet movies, yeah,
about boys coming together, but then also death.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Yeah, but it's just interesting that these examples do involve
the period so much. And then you know the Shining Everybody,
which notoriously he hates that movie, but that scene with
all the blood coming out, everybody uses that as a
joking gift, like, my period's here, right right. Yeah, But
(39:26):
let's move on from Stephen King from now and talk
about Ginger Snaps, which is.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
A movie I love.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
I love that movie.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
So this was made in two thousand and It marries
a teenage girl getting her first period with her becoming
a werewolf, like getting hair in new places, acting out
of character, more volatile, painting her sexuality in a very
monstrous way. But it's very self aware, it's on purpose.
It's definitely commenting on this whole thing of when you
(39:53):
get your period, when you become a woman, then you
become this monster, like a werewolf. The movie's tagline is
they don't call it the Curse for nothing.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
So have you seen any of the sequels?
Speaker 1 (40:06):
No?
Speaker 4 (40:07):
Yeah, I haven't either. I haven't either.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
I'm just afraid of sequels, which is why I'm always
horrified and when people watch it out of sync because
it's not as good.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Typically sometimes sometimes there you know what I think I
feel like in trilogy is the second one is better
usually but.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Not a planned Yes, I feel like it's planned more
likely however.
Speaker 4 (40:29):
But yeah, the.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Main character of this movie is actually in the Netflix.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
Series about were wolves. Oh really witches.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
Yes, yes, I thought that was hilarious because I've not
seen her much recently in many things, but people who
are very very iconic and noticeable, and to me in
the whole, like loving horror movies, she's iconic. The young girl.
She plays this character as a witch. She's not a
were wolf. But the fact that she's in this movie
always like ah, tongue in cheek type of thing may
(40:59):
not be on purpose whatever, But if you haven't seen
this movie, you absolutely should.
Speaker 4 (41:03):
And if you like horror movies, yes then yes.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
The crash it was really funny because we had our
listener Cat Hey Kat, send us a link on Twitter
about the remake of the Craft, and as soon as
she did that, I think it was a few days
later that the.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
Trailer came out.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
And of course one of the big scenes is a
period scene which is not really like it's I don't
know if it's part of the movie obviously we haven't
seen it, but this was definitely not a part of
the original Craft, so we it was interesting, So shout
out to that, and I wonder what this is synchronous?
Speaker 1 (41:35):
It was odd, right, we were like literally researching this
every night.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Happened.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
So we do have a little bit more for you listeners,
but first we have one more quick break for word
from our sponsor, and we're back.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Thank you sponsor. And we just wanted to wrap this up,
I suppose.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
So when I was thinking about this and doing the research,
I do think horror movies at large, when I joke
about semi joke about how they're all about male writers
fears around periods, I think what I actually mean is
they're all about male writers fears, and you know, all
of our fears around women and periods have often been
(42:31):
symbolic of womanhood. Now again, I know we've been hopefully
in what was clearly a vocal air quote saying becoming
a woman. We've been saying that throughout but again, you
don't have to have periods to become a woman. But
it is something that we've seen in our culture and
in our.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Media a lot.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
And I do think the horror genre is intrinsically tied
to women and our fears around it.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
That just makes sense to me.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
I don't think i'd ever really put it together like
I'd always sent like, this genre is about final girls,
and this genre is about pregnant women giving birth to
evil babies. And you know, I never thought about, in
like the whole scheme of horror, how much.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Of it is about women girls.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Because yeah, you and I have had many conversations because
I love those movies about you know, hauntings and you know,
possessions and all of that, because it's nice and scared.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
But when you look at it, a chunk of it
has to do.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
With a mother who's lost a baby who's haunting someone,
or a mother who didn't who didn't want children and
sacrifice them, is haunting someone.
Speaker 4 (43:35):
And it's always the mother.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
It's always the mother doing something, whether it's going after
the mother or the mother is going after a child.
It's very link, but it is it's that whole overall.
It's not just one generation of things, it's all the things.
So when we talk about and we're going too soon,
we're talking about them fatales.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
That's the single woman. Oh my god, be.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
Scared, terrified, terrifying. I strike so much fear in the hearts.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Of men, and all of the points that we've discussed
in our previous episodes on horror movies, there's been this
tension of badass final girls, or you know, even in
video games, we're talking about badass protagonists that you can play,
but a lot of the messaging behind them is still
(44:21):
very rigid and sexist. These pieces of entertainment are primarily
created by men, not at all, not all of them.
There are some amazing women creating in this genre and
also primarily created for the male gaze.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
So it's empowering in a way that.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Women's bodies do inspire so much fear, but that's only
because women's and girls' bodies have been so stigmatized throughout history.
And when you think about how these movies and pieces
of entertainment do reflect real world fears, largely male fears
that still impact and shame so many women to this day,
that still keep women marginalized. It's a different story. Yeah,
(45:04):
you just have to.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
I've always had that weird tension, especially when I did
one of the first episodes I did on this show
is about Final Girls, and I got so torn about
it because you are getting this messaging that you know,
to survive, to be a good woman, you have to
be a virgin and like not smoke, not drink, and
be white and brown hair. And you know, they survive,
but they survive in this like patriarchal definition, and they're
(45:30):
terrorized for it, Like they're tormented for it, and they
lose everything for it. And another piece of this I
do think is not even taking the time to understand women,
especially if they don't fit the demure caricature we're supposed
to fit in.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Like again, you know, she's mad at me, she must
be possessed or on her period.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Any behavior that's not fitting into this patriarchal, like gender
conforming box is threatening and scary and something to be
punish because horror movies are largely about punishment for breaking
societal norms right or in this case, and the one
we're talking about today for being a woman at all.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
Or it's a cautionary tale of if you do this,
this is what happens to you.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Yeah, your sexuality will get you punished unless you do
it in the right quote unquote way.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
So, I guess we have a lot to say about
horror movies and periods.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
But that's well. We'll stop for today for.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Today, but continue on because it is October and we
love these themes.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Yes, yes, yes we do.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
And I know there's so many other movies we could
have talked about, so if we missed one, please send
it our way. You can email us at Stuff Media,
mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us
on Instagram at stuff I've Never Told You or on
Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks it's always to our
super producer Andrew Howard, and thanks to you for listening.
Stephan Never Told You is a protection of iHeartRadio. For
(46:59):
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