March 8, 2025 • 43 mins
What do intimacy coordinators do and why are they important? In this classic episode, Anney and Samantha go over some basics of the position and the conversation around it.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff
I Never told you production of iHeartRadio. And recently, as
you may have heard, we were fortunate enough to finally
reunite with friend.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Of the show, Bridget Todd.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
And after a lot of times after we talked to Bridget,
we're like, oh gosh, we just want There's so many
other things we want to talk to you about. And
one of the things that came up was intimacy coordinators.
And especially since we just had the oscars and there
have been a lot of conversations about intimacy coordinators, I thought,
(00:50):
why not bring back that episode that we did. Seems
like it's really relevant to this day it is, so
please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and
Samantha and welcome to Stefan Never told you a protection
(01:11):
of iHeartRadio. And today, unfortunately, I guess once again we
have to talk about something after a man made a comment.
So we're talking about intimacy coordinators, what they do, why
(01:34):
are they're important, And this is something.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
We've wanted to do for a while.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
So you know, the circumstances might not be great, but
we have wanted to talk about this for a while,
we tried to get an intimacy coordinator on the show.
It hasn't worked out yet, but if anyone is in
the business or has any connections, you know where.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
To find us.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yes, because we would love to do a revisit with
an interview.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
It'd be fantastic.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
But in early August of twenty twenty two, I guess
because who knows. When you're listening to this, actor Sean
Bean made the comment that intimacy coordinators quote spoiled the
spontaneity and that sex scenes had so much better quote
flow before intimacy coordinators got involved, and so many women and.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Everyone else also, but a lot of women raise.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Their hands and were like, Hi, actually they're really important
and here's why. And we have a lot of quotes
from them that we're going to include towards the end.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Before we do that, we're going to get into some basics.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
But also before we do that, you can see our
episode we did with bridget On, Evan Rachel Wood and
Brian Warner also known as Marilyn Manson, and her allegation
that he sexually assaulted her in a music video, which
is related to what we're going to be talking about.
And also content warning brief discussion of sexual assault and rape.
We're not going to get into any details, but brief
(02:57):
discussion and rants. So let's get into some of the basics.
Intimacy coordinators also known as intimacy directors, are, from my understanding,
a relatively new thing. Essentially, they are professionals to choreograph
and guide intimate scenes in our entertainment. They make sure
(03:19):
these vulnerable scenes are safe and that those involved know
what to expect and that they feel supported. The demand
for intimacy coordinators or ICs rose post me too, in
order to make sure sets were safe. The first film
or TV production to announce the use of an intimacy
coordinator was The Deuce during their second season in twenty eighteen.
(03:41):
Though of no, they have been used in live theater
for decades.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
So in twenty twenty, seg After release the first standard
and protocols for intimacy coordinators, and soon after they release
an accreditation system for intimacy coordinators and a registry for
qualified i sees. And here's some quotes from those standards
and practices.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Quote.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Nudity and simulated sex often have an important role in
telling of a story, whether in the film, television, or
interactive world. Although performances in these scenes convey strong feelings
and powerful emotions to an audience, which can be integral
to a storyline, sag Aftra also recognizes the unique vulnerability
(04:24):
that arises from performers when performing hyper exposed work.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Yes, and they define intimacy coordinators as quote an advocate,
a liaison between actors and production and a movement coach
and or a choreographer in regards to nudity and simulated sex,
another intimate and hyper exposed scenes, and that they quote
ensure that performers and other production personnel adhere to proper
safety protocols, serves as a resource in realizing a director's vision,
(04:50):
assumes the role of movement choreographer if requested by the
director to enhance believability, strives to build an environment in
which actors understand what it's expected of them and hyper
exposed scenes, and to give their informed and continued consent.
And further, sag after also suggests that intimacy coordinators should
be used for any scene involving simulated sex or other
(05:11):
intimate are hyper exposed scenes and here are the key qualities.
They outline for qualified intimacy coordinators. Consent training, anti harassment,
anti sexual harassment training, movement coaching and masking techniques, proper
use of modesty, garments and barriers, meditation or conflict resolution training,
gender identity and sexual orientation training, anti racist EDI training
(05:33):
bystander intervention, mental health, first aid, trauma, stewardship or related training.
Must have a state and federal background check, experience, and
an ability to adapt and implement the rules, responsibilities, functions,
and protocols on a variety of sets. So, according to
sag Aftra, here's how an IC's responsibilities might break down.
So ideally, they are included in meetings with the writer, director, producer,
(05:59):
all of the above, sometimes just one of the above,
to go over the intimate scenes and key things like
the degree of nudity, specifics of the simulated sex, of
the nudity, and anything else that might be important. The
IC then communicates those to the actors and then relays
any concerns that they might have back to production. They
(06:20):
meet one on one with performers involved to discuss language
used sex writers that being something in your contract like
I won't do this, something like that. Ices are also
in charge of continually checking in on consent during the production,
they deal with any disagreements or misunderstandings about how the
scenes should go. They also make sure that proper nudity garments, barriers,
(06:41):
and prosthetics are provided.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
So that's pre production on set.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
The guidelines laid out by sag After are as follows
quote reviews, nudity writers, scene content modesty garments and barriers
with performers, directors and assistant directors, ensures the proper implementation
of closed set protocols, and a sag After Guidelines serves
as a resource for directors and assistant directors as needed
(07:07):
with any specialized movement or choreography to ensure consent and
safety while enhancing believability and director vision. Ensures continued consent
throughout the filming of scene. Both consent to what their
likeness is seen performing and how the action is achieved,
while minimizing interference in production flow. Protects minors consistent with
(07:29):
sag After guidelines.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yes, and then in post production ices make themselves available
for questions and to make sure that contractual obligations around
these scenes are met and yes. As mentioned, sag after
does offer multiple accreditation programs for ices. On top of that,
I looked through the registry list and almost everyone on
(07:52):
there is a woman.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
But the list is also very very short, right now,
very shorty.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
I'm sure.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I'm very sure from the words of someone in the
business and is really leading the way. Ada O'Brien described
an intimacy coordinator as quote a practitioner who brings a
professional structure and skill to creating intimate content, just like
a choreographer would bring their skill to a dance or
a stunt coordinator would bring their skill to creating a fight.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
And she went on to say, I say, your no
is a gift. We invite your no. It's really important
that we know your no, that we know your boundaries
so that your yes can be trusted. Any clear structure
gives freedom. Actually having a clear boundary allows you to
be free within that. I always say the work is
like an iceberg, where the body of the work is
actually in all of that preparation, all of those conversations
(08:43):
with the producer, director and the actors, all of that connecting,
in all of that sharing of the process rehearsing, so
that everybody knows the choreography. It means that the data
set everyone's relaxed, comfortable, they feel autonomous, empowered, respected, and
then it means that everybody can bring their skill, the
directors bringing their skill, the actors bringing the best of
(09:03):
their skill to the intimate content. And O'Brien, you can
find a lot of really great interviews with her and
her work. She worked on I Will Destroy You, among
many other critically acclaimed projects, and when that show won
Best Series at the BAFTA's actor and director of the series,
Mikaela Cole, paid tribute to O'Brien's work on the show.
(09:26):
And I do think I want to include this summary
from Esquire about the show because I think it'll show
why it's very.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Important that they had an intimacy coordinator on it. So quote.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
The show centers on Arabella, a gregarious young writer in
London who must question her reality and rebuild her life
after she is drugged and sexually assaulted. Inspired by Cole's
own experience by suffering a sexual assault after her drink
was spiked, I May Destroy You threats a bread taking
needle and depicting the messy, non binary nature of consent
as well in showcasing sexual encounters not often seen on television.
(09:58):
An assault involving two men, salt involving the removal of
a condom mid intercourse, and period sex, just to name
a few. O'Brien was instrumental in bringing these scenes to life,
working closely with Cole and other performers to fully and
safely realize what existed on the page.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Right, and Yeah, got to remind you this was her
personal experience, so it's re traumatizing. I could not imagine
doing this performance and being like just just wing it.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Right, Yeah, absolutely, just go with the float.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Okay, great, So O'Brien has said it is also important
to prioritize self care. It's important for me to bookend
the day of work by speaking with the actors about
what they need to do to let go of where
they've gone and come back to themselves. I don't want
them keeping a residue of where they've been. I also
check in with them a day or so later, just
(10:48):
to make sure that they're happy with the work and
that we can address any concerns they may have.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yeah, and some intimacy coordinators have really sung the praises
of the BDSM kink community. I have taken classes with
and that can we used to learn how this could work,
especially in terms of consent and negotiation as we have
talked about, right, I.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Mean they are on point, like they are an example
to follow for sure.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
At least the ones we've talked to.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Yes, Yes, So intimacy coordinators have gotten a lot of
coverage with the popularity of Bridgerton, coordinated by Elizabeth Talbot,
and she widely discussed the intimacy writer that details what
an actor is willing to do in an intimate scene.
We've briefly discussed this with Sex and the City and yeah,
I think it's really interesting, Talbot said, quote with the
(11:32):
concept of consent that we work with.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Of course, if there's.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Anything where at any point anyone's like, oh, you know,
I don't want to do this, they never will. And
it's also my job to step in front of any
director or producer and be like, hey, you know, like
they're not comfortable with this. And I've been really lucky
to work with great directors and producers, so that's never happened.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
And I would think that especially if.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Bringing one on would probably already go ahead and make
you realize they're more willing to listen and are aware
of keeping actors safe which is the point. Yeah, so Bridgeton,
actor Phoebe Dinniverse said she felt quote safe having an
intimacy coordinator on set. She says, it was so great
because it felt safe, because it felt safe and fun.
(12:17):
You choreograph it like a stunt or a dance, and
it's crazy to me that an intimacy coordinator hasn't been
there in the past. I've done sex scenes before that
I can't believe I did. It was only five or
six years ago, but it would not.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Be allowed now. And her saying that really bothersome because
she's a young and.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah, yeah, well we're going to talk about that a
bit more. But especially young people, I think this is
really really important who don't maybe don't know how to
say no.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I don't want to do this to a director on
the big production.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
But it's also, like you said, a problem of not
everyone has intimacy coordinators, and it already is a step
to be taken.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Did you see the SNL skit in which they have there.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
I guess I don't know they're meaning to make fun
of the fact that there was an intimacy coordinator, but
it was quite interesting they have an intimacy coordinator on
set and then they replaced her with the two duos
being obviously not from their like not knowing what they're
doing and just so throwing out ridiculous things. But it's
very interesting that they immediately they picked up because Bridgeton
(13:22):
has been widely talked about because of the use of
intimacy coordinators for such a sexy, showy, speccy.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Show, yes, very spicy.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Indeed, interestingly, Talbot got her start coordinating fight scenes and
started looking into intimacy coordination in twenty fifteen because she
realized that while there were plenty of rules around choreographing
fight scenes, there were no such rules that existed when
it came to intimate scenes. A man to Blumenthal, who
(13:51):
worked on Euphoria and is the founder of Intimacy Professionals Association,
has said quote people often confuse my role with HR
That's not my job. I'm not here to tell you
what you can and can't say. And coordinator L. McAlpine
of Brave New World says quote, when we go on set,
we're sometimes called the fun police. It's not about that,
it's about educating people about this work.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
It's really disturbing when you see the level of people
calling this just fun. And don't get me wrong if
it's a mutually agreed upon sex scene where it's supposed
to be. But thinking about how often you hear interviews
at the first time they meet someone they do a
sex scene, I don't Maybe it's just we're too traumatized
(14:36):
by our own past that this is alarming.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Oh yeah, fun police for whom, right exactly?
Speaker 1 (14:45):
And I also think that quote about HR is I
want to include that because, and I'm going to talk
about this a little bit at the end, a lot
of you'd be surprised how many film sets don't have
HR right, so there's no way you can go report
it to. So it feels to me like when people
are confusing an intimacy coordinator for.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
H R, that says right right.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Also, you're trying to get out of getting HR. I
see the EP of Normal People. Executive producer Ed Guiney
was originally concerned about hiring an intimacy coordinator, but later
praised the experience, saying, quote, it takes a lot of
the awkwardness out of shooting these scenes and really frees
the actors up to properly be in the moment.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
And on top of this.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
There are programs that focus on people of color and
LGBTQ plus folks when it comes to intimacy coordinators, though
they seem to be currently quite small, like it's already
pretty small.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Is this smaller?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
But they're powerful and not to be dismissed nonetheless, And
I saw this, I thought this was interesting. Mia Shacter,
who's co founder of Century Co training program, recalls working
on the set of Insecure as an intimacy coordinator with
a white woman who is the director, and two black actors,
and the director asked the man to run his hand
through the woman's hair, but Shractor and ravened after discussing
(16:05):
with the black colleague on the grounds that this was
not how black people typically showed care and intimacy and love.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
So that's pretty importantly it.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yeah, and this is related to another field that we're
not really talking about today, but you've probably heard of
sensitivity readers, which is also growing, and we have used
sensitivity readers around here before. But basically they go through
and make sure you're not missing something or saying something
in a way that is clear that you don't really
understand the issue that you're talking about. Big fan of
(16:37):
sensitivity readers.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
Yeah, and honestly, the ICs are clearly needed Before intimacy coordinators,
these things were largely handled by the director, who may
or may not have the expertise or even the humanity
to direct them. Entertainment is an industry that has allowed
people like Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby prey on women
(17:01):
for years and James Franco for a long time with
zero consequences while making bank. As discussed in that episode
with Bridget about Evan rachel Wood, there are examples of
filmed examples of someone usually a woman, being taken advantage
of or pushed past their comfort zone, assaulted, and even
rate perhaps especially younger women breaking into the industry. And
(17:25):
you know, we're not even talking about the old school
industry with the literal casting couch, with everybody knowing what
that was and what that meant, especially for young women.
But then we've all not talked about the old directors
who I'm like, we can't watch any of them anymore
because they were all discusting and push those boundaries and
would do things in order to shock women and or
(17:45):
traumatize women to get a great scene quote unquote.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yes, yes, And there are horror stories about certain directors
that you would go audition for them and they would
be like, you know, you're going to take off your
clothes and now you're going to do this, and now
you're going to do this, and that was just like understood.
And that's for an audition that they would often film
and then he probably wouldn't get the role, but.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
They have that tape forever. H Yeah, I have. I'm
going to talk some more about that later.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
So Sean Bean is by far not the only person
to complain about intimacy coordinators. Director Adrian Lynz said it
implies a lack of trust, and that's all I have.
If the actors don't trust me, I might as well
go home. I've got to make myself vulnerable for them,
for them to know I would spill my guts do
anything for them. Then with any luck, I get the
(18:48):
same back. He said of his film Fatal Attraction, that
Glenn Close and Michael Douglas drank before more intimate scenes
and then lamented, you can't do that. Now, Why is
everything so serious? God, it's not like they're going to
get paralyzed or something.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Wow, it's all directs of Fatal Attraction. So that tells
me enough if we all know what their views on
women probably are in this movie in itself. But secondly,
that's not a good sign that they have to be
drunk to do their job.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah, And I think, as like a boss, I think
the excuse they took, I believe it was tequila shots.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
They drink tequila to do it and get comfortable.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Like, I don't think you should be just proud to
say that everywhere, right.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
I don't know if they realize how close to someone
you have to get someone drunk to make them sleep
with you. And we all know what that is, and
that's frowned upon at this point in time. It should
be it is by us anyway.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Mm hm oh gosh.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
And I also think like that whole it implies a
lack of trust. I don't think that's necessarily true. I
mean it might, especially for someone like you, But I
think it means that you're showing you want care for
the people that work with you, and that you understand
this is a vulnerable thing they're doing and you're taking
the steps to make it comfortable.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Also, again, it should be the other way around.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
You're supposed to be earning trust, not just provam likely
giving it because you're the boss or whatever, what right?
That is an absurd, narcissistic type of idea, and that
again says a lot to who he was and who
we thought he should be seen as.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
There's a lot to pick a part in that quote.
But we'll move on as promised. We do have a
lot of quotes from people who after this the Sean
Bean quote came out, raised their hand. A lot of
actors spoke up in disagreement, and yeah, we want to
include some of the quotes from them. So from Rachel Ziegler,
(20:50):
who filmed a sex scene at the age of eighteen
for West Side Story, she wrote, spontaneity and intimate scenes
can be in safe wake up.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Emma Thompson said in another conversation, you might find that
people go. It made me comfortable, It made me feel safe,
It made me feel as though I was able to
do this work. No, you can't just let it flow.
There's a camera there and a crew. It is not
on your own in a hotel room. You're surrounded by
a bunch of floats carrying things. And according to Thompson,
in most cases, filming intimate scenes is not a scene
(21:24):
is a not comfortable situation full stop. Which again I
feel like that's the constant rhetoric we hear when it
comes to people, because that's the first question, especially if
it's a.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Sexy movie, Oh, how did you feel about this? How
did you get into these scenes?
Speaker 4 (21:37):
And immediately everyone's like, it's not sexy, it's work, it's awkward,
it's cold.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
I didn't like it.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yes, yes, I hard agree.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Like there's nothing comfortable and spontaneous about a lot of filming,
like most of filming as an actor, all of it
is like uncomfortable and strange.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
I don't see why. I mean, especially it should be
in my opinion, and.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Like intimacy, like intimate scenes, because like there are all
these things. You have to hit your mark, maybe there's
a greed screen, and you have to be uncomfortably close
to each other to appear natural, like that, the amount
of distance to have like a natural amount of space
between somebody you're like right up in their face. It's
not comfortable. You have to have your eye line in
(22:21):
a certain place. All of this you're supposed to do
as if there aren't eye lines and marks and all
of these things that you're trying to keep in your
head while you're also saying lines and trying to look natural.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
And I think like.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
A lot of practice and rehearsing that doesn't necessarily remove
the spontananity. I think though, what you're doing is you're
marking out in a way that feels safe and comfortable.
You know what's going to happen. You can still have
little spontaneous moments within that as long as it's agreed
upon as right, Oh like a little giggle ers, I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Like there there are ways we rehears that everything.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Why is it like this one thing all that removes
the spontaneity?
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Right?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
It's what right?
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Like people will get mad when a line is improved
at times and it ruins the scene as in like
it gets people cracking up and they talk about how
much money is wasted because of that, and so oftentimes
you will have directors who are absolutely livid. I know
there's there's directors who love it if you can go
with it, but there's you know, like the level of
(23:29):
what is being said and who's wasting money and what's
doing what?
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Why is this which can harm a person? Not as
us respect.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
When you think of it as it does have to
be choreographed because you want to get their right camera angles,
like I don't get it, like, and it is a job.
It is a job, and just like all jobs, we
should be protecting the workers. And many people have pointed
out Emma Thompson is Sean Bean's age and she is
(23:57):
recounting a very different experience.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Is right love before I too? We do.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
Lena Hall, who filmed the sex scene in Snow Piercer
with Being, said that while he made her feel comfortable
and was a good scene partner, quote, if there's any
part of me that is feeling weird, it grows overexposed,
et cetera. I'll either challenge the necessity of a scene
or I want an ic. I do feel that intimacy
coordinators are a welcome addition to the set and think
(24:26):
they could also help with the trauma experience in other scenes.
Sometimes you need them, sometimes you don't. But every single
person in scene and experience is different, which I think
is huge.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
So the scene in.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Question was cut and is kind of at the heart
of this being said of Hall, I suppose it depends
on the actress. This one had a musical cabaret background,
so she was up for anything.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Wow, Wow, condescending and and yeah dismissive.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Hall responded, Just because I am in theater, not cabaret,
but I do perform them every once in a while,
does not mean that I am up for anything. I
don't even understand what that means. Was that like she
got her big break of the movies, so she was
up for anything.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Honestly, I could be wrong, but I feel like it
was some slut shaving.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Okay, is there like, is there.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
An idea that theater people are are slutty I or cabaret.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
People are cabaret.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
I don't know for sure, but that's just the vibe
I got from that statement, or.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
So he said.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
It took out the spontanity. His partners are like, no, no, no, no,
I really wish we had them. I don't understand what
you're doing. So it's very gendered but also toxic. Masculinity
is a part of this when we have a conversation
about the fact that people who are so upset again
are most likely going to be domineering male types who
(25:58):
really think they look good having sex because in reality
sexless goofy as hell.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I agree, honestly, Like, sometimes I get that it turned
some people on, but for me, I'm usually like, oh no,
not this.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Single, please, it's a mess. It is.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Jamila Jamil tweeted it should only be technical. It's like
a stunt our. Job as actors is to make it
not look technical. Nobody wants an impromptu group. I love
that quote because I think that's I don't know if
I said it as succinctly as she did, but like
it's a yeah, you should coordinate it, and then the actor,
if they're a good actor, can make it look like
(26:42):
it's not coordinating. It's not technical, right, that's the job
of the actor. But you still want to have that
in place, right, How.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Are you going to do your job well?
Speaker 4 (26:51):
If out like you're a half concerned about what they're
going to do and where they're in touch without permission, that.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
You're going to be so in your head about it,
and I see that you're probably already to be in
your head about right. Amanda Seyfried said she wished she'd
had an intimacy coordinator on set as a younger actor.
End quote, being nineteen walking around without my underwear on? Like,
are you kidding me? How did I let that happen?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Oh? I know why I was.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Nineteen, and I didn't want to upset anybody, and I
wanted to keep my job.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
That's why. Yep.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
And then not a person or a woman, but the Broadcasting, Entertainment,
Communications and Theater Union issued this statement. Disappointing to hear
these comments from such a screen favorite and established actor
without acknowledging his position of privilege and the vulnerabilities and
challenges many in the industry, particularly young and less experienced actors,
may face as they engage in shooting intimate scenes. And
(27:47):
this is like, as we record this ongoing, people are
coming out of the woodwork to say, actually, yes, I
really would have wish we.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Had had an intimacy coordinator.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
So I saw just this morning, I think some of
the cast of Boy Meets World said that they had
wished they had had intimacy coordinators on set for Boy
Meets World.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
You know, I do.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
I do think about stuff like that with young kids
having their first kiss on screen and how awkward that was.
I will say, I just watched recently the Wes Anderson
and the Older movie with kids half naked touching on
each other, and there were young kids and I'm sitting
here really horrified, like everything about this, And I'm like,
I really hope they had supervision because this in itself
(28:32):
is uncomfortable, awkward, and I hope those kids are okay.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
It's gonna sound strang, but that's actually a great point
in terms of the audience, Like you would have enjoyed
it better if you had known.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
I think I would.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
I should have read like I was so I wanted
to fast forward it fast.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
I mean not to say like some things just make
you uncomfortable, but I think a lot of times for me,
I would enjoy something better if I knew, Okay, they've
took these safety precautions, the people on set were taken
care of, like for me as a.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Viewer, right, well, I mean, and it should be where
it's a professional, like person who's a liison in between
those people, because you don't always have this good relationship.
And I feel like Lena Hall was being nice, especially
after reading Sean Bean's comment, wondering did he really was
he really a good partner or was she just saying
that so not to piss off a legendary film actor
(29:31):
or whatever whatnot? Because you know, we know in Game
of Thrones, Amelia Clark talked about how she would not
have been able to get through those scenes had she
not had such a great actor who protected.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Her literally being like, are you okay with this? Like
had to do some coordinating on their.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
Own in order for protection. But it was him m hm, going,
you know, making the initiative. And I don't know if
they were intimency coordinators, but it didn't sound like it
not from what Clark was saying that it was all
pretty much him protecting her from this and he's like,
if you're not comfortable, tell me, I'll fight them like
that level.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
And she talked about that the fact that it.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Took her after season one of being a big enough
name to be like, I don't want to do this anymore.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
And I think, as we've mentioned throughout that is a
big part of the problem is there's just this pervasive
messaging to especially young women entering trying to enter the business,
like there are thousands like you that want to be here.
If you can't suck it up and do what we
tell you to do, we can get rid of you
and replace you.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
And they will do this easily. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
And I think it's also just like the blase attitude
that some of these men have shown and we're saying
it's not a big deal, it's hilarious, it's funny, or
you know, it feels nice.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Who doesn't want to make out with these young girls.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
I'm sure that's some people's attitudes, but the fact of
the matters. There's a lot of trauma. There was a
scene and I think about this all the time. It
pisses me all off and also puts me at like, yeah,
Chris Pratt's the worst Chris.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Sorry, that's just a personal opinion.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
But in one of the outtakes he thought was hysterical
and shared was the fact that he got completely naked,
took off his Like the scene was that he was
supposed to be naked, but of course he had the
underwear or whatever. They yeah, but he took it off,
flashing Amy Poehler and Rashida Jones. And he came back
when he was telling this story about how they were
really upset about it, and like he tried to play
(31:28):
it off as a joke and they even put it
as a b clip blueber and he was like, they
were actually upset but thought it was hilarious to tell it.
And I'm like, that is sexual assault. I'm sorry, that
is sexual assault in the harassment and honestly, as a
traumatized victim, that would have had me on the floor.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Right right, I think that gosh, that is such a
figure conversation. But yeah, I do think because women just
statistically experience sexual assault and related things at such higher
rates that we have to think about that everywhere. But
like I feel like an art scenes, an artistic endeavors,
(32:07):
it's sort of thrown out the window, like, oh, but
this will be good art and it shouldn't be thrown
out the window. And I think men just don't think
about it because it's not something they have to worry
about every in it of all day. And yes, men
can be assaulted too, but I just it's statistically me
so for him to do that, like it probably never
occurred to him, right this Maybe they have a horrible
(32:30):
experience that this is gonna right off.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
And being a part of the industry, they probably really have. Probably,
But the thing about the matter is like they're so
flippant that this even bypassed people on the set watching
him do it, not thinking anything about it and just
letting it go and saying this is a huge joke.
Him being told don't tell people this because this is
going to get you in trouble. But he told it
on a national TV because he just thought it was hilarious.
(32:54):
Has he ever apologized to it. No, And no one's
really kept them, all them accountablebout everybody treated it as
a And you know what, I get that, I get
that to a certain degree of like he really thought
this would be hilarious, which stop. Just if anybody wants
to know, that's not funny to me, So don't do
that to me.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Thanks.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
But all of that matter in this conversation is like
this is the level of what they think is acceptable.
They just part of the job and that this is
okay and realizing no, this is why it needs a breakdown.
And I'm sorry that the quote unquote fun police have
come through, but for a lot of us, this is
not fun exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
And just because this is artistic, it's still a job.
If you did that at any other job, I would
hope you would be fired. Unfortunately we have instances where
that's not been the case. But generally you should be fired.
And if you have coordinated something out like that and
(33:51):
everyone's prepared, that's different than you just do it as
a joke.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
And this's the thing is like the converse, it's not
about stopping it, stopping sex scenes, stopping.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
The spicy scenes. Don't get me wrong, they're like, oh, okay, cool.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
But at the same it doesn't also mean that there
doesn't need to be regulation. There's a reason there's a
rating system to begin with for the viewers. There should
be a system to set up to protect the actors.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Yes, and I also think that we should come back
and talk about this. I know we've talked about it
a little bit more, but you know, depending on who's
writing it, who's directing it. I think, as some of
these actors have said, you know, there are certain scenes
I don't want to do, and a lot of it's
coming from a male gaze of treating a woman as
an object in a scene. So it's okay to traumatize
(34:42):
her or depict a sexual assault. Maybe it's not necessary,
And maybe intimacy coordinators can be the person who's like, well,
why are we what are we trying to communicate here?
Because if it can be cut, the actor's not comfortable,
Like that's also a part of this. And then and
I did want to run through some really quick personal
(35:04):
experiences I've had because I have worked in some acting before,
and I think like we've mentioned a lot of this throughout,
and I bet a lot of professions can connect this.
But I've certainly been pressured into uncomfortable situations. There generally
has not been hr or if there have been, I
(35:24):
have not been told where they are. Oh I don't
know who to contact. I don't think ever have I
been on a set. And then a lot of times,
if you do an intimate scene, it's supposed to be
only necessary personnel are in there, and they're not supposed
to bring their cell phones. And I have been at
least one time where I saw cell phones and I
(35:44):
didn't know what to like.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
It's like I thought we said there was no cell phones.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
I couldn't have my cell phone. And then yeah, the
whole idea like oh, if you don't do it, thousands
behind you.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
And another thing people brought up.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
A lot that I thought was a great point is
that scripts can be really vague. They are so like
one example a lot of people gave is make passionate love, Like.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Don't you want to choreograph that? What does that mean?
What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (36:12):
You're to roll around and push each other and.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yay, right, like, and people can have different ideas of
what that means for one thing, and you don't want
it to like get a black eye or whatever whatever
you're accidentally throwing elbows, and.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
So that's another area where I just.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
I'm sorry, I just had a moment of like make
passionate love elbow in the face.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
You know you're rolling about an elbow prowl Uh. Yes,
well but yeah, I mean I think that's that's a
great point. How are you supposed to interpret that as
an actor? And then if you're lucky, if you work
on a big enough production, you get to work with
said actor before that and talk about it, discuss it.
But that's not always true either. Sometimes you just walk
(36:58):
in and they're like go of.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Like things like this is planned for next Thursday.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
Oh no, we're doing it today because this is the
best time, or something's gone wrong with the other things.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Yes, yes, that has happened to me, not with an
intimate scene, but with an emotionally intense scene where they're like,
actually we're doing that today, right, all right, I have
five minutes to really get in the state.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
So yeah, that's something that happens.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
And then, as I mentioned, auditions themselves, which are essentially
job interviews, can get really gross and they'll just give
you no warning, tell you to come in and be like,
actually you need to see what you would look like
in a bikini, so can you take off your clothes,
and there's no like, there's no warning you. Again, you're
(37:42):
kind of like no, how much you have that mon
of like does that mean I won't get the job
if I don't do it? But I don't want to
do it, So that's all gross. And I've heard horror stories,
as I said, about big directors doing way worse than that,
which is related to the idea of the male, which
we've talked before, who gets away with everything in the
(38:04):
name of art, even if it means hurting women, sometimes
especially if it means hurting women. So I think that
is at play throughout all of this. And yeah, you
can get really wrapped up in the moment and not
know how to speak up and say you're uncomfortable, especially
if you don't have an advocate, especially if expontaneity is
(38:26):
involved and all of a sudden someone's kissing you or.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Whatever and you don't know you don't want to break
the scene.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
You don't know what's happening, Like it's not good. We've
just heard so many, over and over again stories of
(38:53):
young actresses being taken advantage of by older men, and
these scenes can be.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Just a rife space for that.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
And yeah, I mean enthusiastic, consent and sexy this idea
that a lot of it, a lot of it embodies
that men who don't like it, it seems to be like, wait, what,
I can't do anything I want?
Speaker 2 (39:19):
The fashion romance is diod.
Speaker 4 (39:23):
Well I mean, and also like I just remember the
Nicole Kidman movie Dogville. Had no idea what the promise
of the movie was. It was getting a lot of accolades,
and there was a woman. There was a moment when
in the movie there are rape scenes, but it's pretty
much like laid out like it's a play, so it's
just cut, just taped off.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
You're supposed to know what this is. But it was
absolutely a movie, a play within a movie.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
And still in Scarsguard has a really intense rape scene
with Nicole Kidman. He talks about it and he couldn't
even speak it in English, like he was so distraught
from the scene he was so disturbed by it, like
as they were interviewing him about the scene, because I
had to go, I had to like detox for it,
(40:09):
and I need to know. They were okay, like that's
how far I had to go for it. Of course,
it's large vauntrier who is one of those that really
pushes quote unquote the envelope or whatever, and he was
disturbed by it. He was so perturbed by that he
literally could not explain what he was what.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Had happened in English was I thought.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
I was like, this is before I knew who he
was as the big actor that he was, and I
was like, oh my god, what's happening. He has a
really good English uh razor accident in the movie, but
then he's just like breaking down crying, Like this is
about the fact that in those scenes, I hope as
a human that these male actors who have to portray
(40:53):
this feel just as bad and discussing and gross about this, right.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
I mean, yeah, we've been talking a lot about women,
but anybody in is right. Those are emotionally intense and
traumatic scenes, right.
Speaker 4 (41:05):
And of course we are going like a different route
with that conversation, like like oh, it's just not fun,
and it takes out a spontaneity. Again though we know
most of the times a lot of these movies take
unnecessary leaps into making it traumatic and a violation for
women for the characters, which sometimes is like this is
not necessary, I don't understand what this is and like
(41:26):
the fact that, yeah, it's traumatizing to everyone around. I
would hope there should be a conversation and a breakdown
of the scenes or you know, what's happening without truly
violating either one of the actors in these moments, and
theos asks to consist. Of course we're not really in
the movie. You know, that's not supposed to be the play,
but you should be able to do so behind the scenes,
to do it correctly and safely for both actors.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Mm everyone involved.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
It's like, yeah, I would even hope, like they have
like a speech they give to the crew. And there
are there are some instances of underqualified ices that have
gotten through and have provided bad experiences, and that is
something that those in the in the small industry are
(42:14):
working to change.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
But overall it seems that they make everything.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
They make things better for everybody, and they make the
set more safe, and they make you know the enerchangmage better.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Uh so, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
If you're interested, there are resources available online which I
definitely checked out.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
I was just kind of curious. I was like, what
am I going to have to do if I wanted
to do this?
Speaker 1 (42:39):
They do say it takes like years, like they aren't
young Intimacy coordinators really like, you really have to put
in the time and work. But yes, you should go
check that out if you're at all interested. And yeah,
my TLDR for this one is intimacy scenes. Intimate scenes
are stunts, They're vulnerable stunts and this whole thing, it's
a job. So intimacy coordinators are important for ensuring everyone's safety, comfort.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
And the best performances on an everyone.
Speaker 4 (43:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Yes, So if you would like to contact us you can.
Our email is Stephanie moms steffantiheartmia dot com. You can
find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on
Instagram at steffan Never Told You.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Thanks. It's always to our super producer Christie.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
Thank you, Christina, and thanks to you.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
For listening Stuff and Never Told You respection from iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, you can check out the
iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcast where you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff
I Never told you production of iHeartRadio. And recently, as
you may have heard, we were fortunate enough to finally
reunite with friend.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Of the show, Bridget Todd.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
And after a lot of times after we talked to Bridget,
we're like, oh gosh, we just want There's so many
other things we want to talk to you about. And
one of the things that came up was intimacy coordinators.
And especially since we just had the oscars and there
have been a lot of conversations about intimacy coordinators, I thought,
(00:50):
why not bring back that episode that we did. Seems
like it's really relevant to this day it is, so
please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and
Samantha and welcome to Stefan Never told you a protection
(01:11):
of iHeartRadio. And today, unfortunately, I guess once again we
have to talk about something after a man made a comment.
So we're talking about intimacy coordinators, what they do, why
(01:34):
are they're important, And this is something.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
We've wanted to do for a while.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
So you know, the circumstances might not be great, but
we have wanted to talk about this for a while,
we tried to get an intimacy coordinator on the show.
It hasn't worked out yet, but if anyone is in
the business or has any connections, you know where.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
To find us.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yes, because we would love to do a revisit with
an interview.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
It'd be fantastic.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
But in early August of twenty twenty two, I guess
because who knows. When you're listening to this, actor Sean
Bean made the comment that intimacy coordinators quote spoiled the
spontaneity and that sex scenes had so much better quote
flow before intimacy coordinators got involved, and so many women and.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Everyone else also, but a lot of women raise.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Their hands and were like, Hi, actually they're really important
and here's why. And we have a lot of quotes
from them that we're going to include towards the end.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Before we do that, we're going to get into some basics.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
But also before we do that, you can see our
episode we did with bridget On, Evan Rachel Wood and
Brian Warner also known as Marilyn Manson, and her allegation
that he sexually assaulted her in a music video, which
is related to what we're going to be talking about.
And also content warning brief discussion of sexual assault and rape.
We're not going to get into any details, but brief
(02:57):
discussion and rants. So let's get into some of the basics.
Intimacy coordinators also known as intimacy directors, are, from my understanding,
a relatively new thing. Essentially, they are professionals to choreograph
and guide intimate scenes in our entertainment. They make sure
(03:19):
these vulnerable scenes are safe and that those involved know
what to expect and that they feel supported. The demand
for intimacy coordinators or ICs rose post me too, in
order to make sure sets were safe. The first film
or TV production to announce the use of an intimacy
coordinator was The Deuce during their second season in twenty eighteen.
(03:41):
Though of no, they have been used in live theater
for decades.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
I didn't know that.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
So in twenty twenty, seg After release the first standard
and protocols for intimacy coordinators, and soon after they release
an accreditation system for intimacy coordinators and a registry for
qualified i sees. And here's some quotes from those standards
and practices.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Quote.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Nudity and simulated sex often have an important role in
telling of a story, whether in the film, television, or
interactive world. Although performances in these scenes convey strong feelings
and powerful emotions to an audience, which can be integral
to a storyline, sag Aftra also recognizes the unique vulnerability
(04:24):
that arises from performers when performing hyper exposed work.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Yes, and they define intimacy coordinators as quote an advocate,
a liaison between actors and production and a movement coach
and or a choreographer in regards to nudity and simulated sex,
another intimate and hyper exposed scenes, and that they quote
ensure that performers and other production personnel adhere to proper
safety protocols, serves as a resource in realizing a director's vision,
(04:50):
assumes the role of movement choreographer if requested by the
director to enhance believability, strives to build an environment in
which actors understand what it's expected of them and hyper
exposed scenes, and to give their informed and continued consent.
And further, sag after also suggests that intimacy coordinators should
be used for any scene involving simulated sex or other
(05:11):
intimate are hyper exposed scenes and here are the key qualities.
They outline for qualified intimacy coordinators. Consent training, anti harassment,
anti sexual harassment training, movement coaching and masking techniques, proper
use of modesty, garments and barriers, meditation or conflict resolution training,
gender identity and sexual orientation training, anti racist EDI training
(05:33):
bystander intervention, mental health, first aid, trauma, stewardship or related training.
Must have a state and federal background check, experience, and
an ability to adapt and implement the rules, responsibilities, functions,
and protocols on a variety of sets. So, according to
sag Aftra, here's how an IC's responsibilities might break down.
So ideally, they are included in meetings with the writer, director, producer,
(05:59):
all of the above, sometimes just one of the above,
to go over the intimate scenes and key things like
the degree of nudity, specifics of the simulated sex, of
the nudity, and anything else that might be important. The
IC then communicates those to the actors and then relays
any concerns that they might have back to production. They
(06:20):
meet one on one with performers involved to discuss language
used sex writers that being something in your contract like
I won't do this, something like that. Ices are also
in charge of continually checking in on consent during the production,
they deal with any disagreements or misunderstandings about how the
scenes should go. They also make sure that proper nudity garments, barriers,
(06:41):
and prosthetics are provided.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
So that's pre production on set.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
The guidelines laid out by sag After are as follows
quote reviews, nudity writers, scene content modesty garments and barriers
with performers, directors and assistant directors, ensures the proper implementation
of closed set protocols, and a sag After Guidelines serves
as a resource for directors and assistant directors as needed
(07:07):
with any specialized movement or choreography to ensure consent and
safety while enhancing believability and director vision. Ensures continued consent
throughout the filming of scene. Both consent to what their
likeness is seen performing and how the action is achieved,
while minimizing interference in production flow. Protects minors consistent with
(07:29):
sag After guidelines.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yes, and then in post production ices make themselves available
for questions and to make sure that contractual obligations around
these scenes are met and yes. As mentioned, sag after
does offer multiple accreditation programs for ices. On top of that,
I looked through the registry list and almost everyone on
(07:52):
there is a woman.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
But the list is also very very short, right now,
very shorty.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
I'm sure.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I'm very sure from the words of someone in the
business and is really leading the way. Ada O'Brien described
an intimacy coordinator as quote a practitioner who brings a
professional structure and skill to creating intimate content, just like
a choreographer would bring their skill to a dance or
a stunt coordinator would bring their skill to creating a fight.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
And she went on to say, I say, your no
is a gift. We invite your no. It's really important
that we know your no, that we know your boundaries
so that your yes can be trusted. Any clear structure
gives freedom. Actually having a clear boundary allows you to
be free within that. I always say the work is
like an iceberg, where the body of the work is
actually in all of that preparation, all of those conversations
(08:43):
with the producer, director and the actors, all of that connecting,
in all of that sharing of the process rehearsing, so
that everybody knows the choreography. It means that the data
set everyone's relaxed, comfortable, they feel autonomous, empowered, respected, and
then it means that everybody can bring their skill, the
directors bringing their skill, the actors bringing the best of
(09:03):
their skill to the intimate content. And O'Brien, you can
find a lot of really great interviews with her and
her work. She worked on I Will Destroy You, among
many other critically acclaimed projects, and when that show won
Best Series at the BAFTA's actor and director of the series,
Mikaela Cole, paid tribute to O'Brien's work on the show.
(09:26):
And I do think I want to include this summary
from Esquire about the show because I think it'll show
why it's very.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Important that they had an intimacy coordinator on it. So quote.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
The show centers on Arabella, a gregarious young writer in
London who must question her reality and rebuild her life
after she is drugged and sexually assaulted. Inspired by Cole's
own experience by suffering a sexual assault after her drink
was spiked, I May Destroy You threats a bread taking
needle and depicting the messy, non binary nature of consent
as well in showcasing sexual encounters not often seen on television.
(09:58):
An assault involving two men, salt involving the removal of
a condom mid intercourse, and period sex, just to name
a few. O'Brien was instrumental in bringing these scenes to life,
working closely with Cole and other performers to fully and
safely realize what existed on the page.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Right, and Yeah, got to remind you this was her
personal experience, so it's re traumatizing. I could not imagine
doing this performance and being like just just wing it.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Right, Yeah, absolutely, just go with the float.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Okay, great, So O'Brien has said it is also important
to prioritize self care. It's important for me to bookend
the day of work by speaking with the actors about
what they need to do to let go of where
they've gone and come back to themselves. I don't want
them keeping a residue of where they've been. I also
check in with them a day or so later, just
(10:48):
to make sure that they're happy with the work and
that we can address any concerns they may have.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yeah, and some intimacy coordinators have really sung the praises
of the BDSM kink community. I have taken classes with
and that can we used to learn how this could work,
especially in terms of consent and negotiation as we have
talked about, right, I.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Mean they are on point, like they are an example
to follow for sure.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
At least the ones we've talked to.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Yes, Yes, So intimacy coordinators have gotten a lot of
coverage with the popularity of Bridgerton, coordinated by Elizabeth Talbot,
and she widely discussed the intimacy writer that details what
an actor is willing to do in an intimate scene.
We've briefly discussed this with Sex and the City and yeah,
I think it's really interesting, Talbot said, quote with the
(11:32):
concept of consent that we work with.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Of course, if there's.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Anything where at any point anyone's like, oh, you know,
I don't want to do this, they never will. And
it's also my job to step in front of any
director or producer and be like, hey, you know, like
they're not comfortable with this. And I've been really lucky
to work with great directors and producers, so that's never happened.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
And I would think that especially if.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Bringing one on would probably already go ahead and make
you realize they're more willing to listen and are aware
of keeping actors safe which is the point. Yeah, so Bridgeton,
actor Phoebe Dinniverse said she felt quote safe having an
intimacy coordinator on set. She says, it was so great
because it felt safe, because it felt safe and fun.
(12:17):
You choreograph it like a stunt or a dance, and
it's crazy to me that an intimacy coordinator hasn't been
there in the past. I've done sex scenes before that
I can't believe I did. It was only five or
six years ago, but it would not.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Be allowed now. And her saying that really bothersome because
she's a young and.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah, yeah, well we're going to talk about that a
bit more. But especially young people, I think this is
really really important who don't maybe don't know how to
say no.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I don't want to do this to a director on
the big production.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
But it's also, like you said, a problem of not
everyone has intimacy coordinators, and it already is a step
to be taken.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Did you see the SNL skit in which they have there.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
I guess I don't know they're meaning to make fun
of the fact that there was an intimacy coordinator, but
it was quite interesting they have an intimacy coordinator on
set and then they replaced her with the two duos
being obviously not from their like not knowing what they're
doing and just so throwing out ridiculous things. But it's
very interesting that they immediately they picked up because Bridgeton
(13:22):
has been widely talked about because of the use of
intimacy coordinators for such a sexy, showy, speccy.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Show, yes, very spicy.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Indeed, interestingly, Talbot got her start coordinating fight scenes and
started looking into intimacy coordination in twenty fifteen because she
realized that while there were plenty of rules around choreographing
fight scenes, there were no such rules that existed when
it came to intimate scenes. A man to Blumenthal, who
(13:51):
worked on Euphoria and is the founder of Intimacy Professionals Association,
has said quote people often confuse my role with HR
That's not my job. I'm not here to tell you
what you can and can't say. And coordinator L. McAlpine
of Brave New World says quote, when we go on set,
we're sometimes called the fun police. It's not about that,
it's about educating people about this work.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
It's really disturbing when you see the level of people
calling this just fun. And don't get me wrong if
it's a mutually agreed upon sex scene where it's supposed
to be. But thinking about how often you hear interviews
at the first time they meet someone they do a
sex scene, I don't Maybe it's just we're too traumatized
(14:36):
by our own past that this is alarming.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Oh yeah, fun police for whom, right exactly?
Speaker 1 (14:45):
And I also think that quote about HR is I
want to include that because, and I'm going to talk
about this a little bit at the end, a lot
of you'd be surprised how many film sets don't have
HR right, so there's no way you can go report
it to. So it feels to me like when people
are confusing an intimacy coordinator for.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
H R, that says right right.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Also, you're trying to get out of getting HR. I
see the EP of Normal People. Executive producer Ed Guiney
was originally concerned about hiring an intimacy coordinator, but later
praised the experience, saying, quote, it takes a lot of
the awkwardness out of shooting these scenes and really frees
the actors up to properly be in the moment.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
And on top of this.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
There are programs that focus on people of color and
LGBTQ plus folks when it comes to intimacy coordinators, though
they seem to be currently quite small, like it's already
pretty small.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Is this smaller?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
But they're powerful and not to be dismissed nonetheless, And
I saw this, I thought this was interesting. Mia Shacter,
who's co founder of Century Co training program, recalls working
on the set of Insecure as an intimacy coordinator with
a white woman who is the director, and two black actors,
and the director asked the man to run his hand
through the woman's hair, but Shractor and ravened after discussing
(16:05):
with the black colleague on the grounds that this was
not how black people typically showed care and intimacy and love.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
So that's pretty importantly it.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yeah, and this is related to another field that we're
not really talking about today, but you've probably heard of
sensitivity readers, which is also growing, and we have used
sensitivity readers around here before. But basically they go through
and make sure you're not missing something or saying something
in a way that is clear that you don't really
understand the issue that you're talking about. Big fan of
(16:37):
sensitivity readers.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
Yeah, and honestly, the ICs are clearly needed Before intimacy coordinators,
these things were largely handled by the director, who may
or may not have the expertise or even the humanity
to direct them. Entertainment is an industry that has allowed
people like Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby prey on women
(17:01):
for years and James Franco for a long time with
zero consequences while making bank. As discussed in that episode
with Bridget about Evan rachel Wood, there are examples of
filmed examples of someone usually a woman, being taken advantage
of or pushed past their comfort zone, assaulted, and even
rate perhaps especially younger women breaking into the industry. And
(17:25):
you know, we're not even talking about the old school
industry with the literal casting couch, with everybody knowing what
that was and what that meant, especially for young women.
But then we've all not talked about the old directors
who I'm like, we can't watch any of them anymore
because they were all discusting and push those boundaries and
would do things in order to shock women and or
(17:45):
traumatize women to get a great scene quote unquote.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yes, yes, And there are horror stories about certain directors
that you would go audition for them and they would
be like, you know, you're going to take off your
clothes and now you're going to do this, and now
you're going to do this, and that was just like understood.
And that's for an audition that they would often film
and then he probably wouldn't get the role, but.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
They have that tape forever. H Yeah, I have. I'm
going to talk some more about that later.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
So Sean Bean is by far not the only person
to complain about intimacy coordinators. Director Adrian Lynz said it
implies a lack of trust, and that's all I have.
If the actors don't trust me, I might as well
go home. I've got to make myself vulnerable for them,
for them to know I would spill my guts do
anything for them. Then with any luck, I get the
(18:48):
same back. He said of his film Fatal Attraction, that
Glenn Close and Michael Douglas drank before more intimate scenes
and then lamented, you can't do that. Now, Why is
everything so serious? God, it's not like they're going to
get paralyzed or something.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Wow, it's all directs of Fatal Attraction. So that tells
me enough if we all know what their views on
women probably are in this movie in itself. But secondly,
that's not a good sign that they have to be
drunk to do their job.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah, And I think, as like a boss, I think
the excuse they took, I believe it was tequila shots.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
They drink tequila to do it and get comfortable.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Like, I don't think you should be just proud to
say that everywhere, right.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
I don't know if they realize how close to someone
you have to get someone drunk to make them sleep
with you. And we all know what that is, and
that's frowned upon at this point in time. It should
be it is by us anyway.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Mm hm oh gosh.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
And I also think like that whole it implies a
lack of trust. I don't think that's necessarily true. I
mean it might, especially for someone like you, But I
think it means that you're showing you want care for
the people that work with you, and that you understand
this is a vulnerable thing they're doing and you're taking
the steps to make it comfortable.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Also, again, it should be the other way around.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
You're supposed to be earning trust, not just provam likely
giving it because you're the boss or whatever, what right?
That is an absurd, narcissistic type of idea, and that
again says a lot to who he was and who
we thought he should be seen as.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
There's a lot to pick a part in that quote.
But we'll move on as promised. We do have a
lot of quotes from people who after this the Sean
Bean quote came out, raised their hand. A lot of
actors spoke up in disagreement, and yeah, we want to
include some of the quotes from them. So from Rachel Ziegler,
(20:50):
who filmed a sex scene at the age of eighteen
for West Side Story, she wrote, spontaneity and intimate scenes
can be in safe wake up.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Emma Thompson said in another conversation, you might find that
people go. It made me comfortable, It made me feel safe,
It made me feel as though I was able to
do this work. No, you can't just let it flow.
There's a camera there and a crew. It is not
on your own in a hotel room. You're surrounded by
a bunch of floats carrying things. And according to Thompson,
in most cases, filming intimate scenes is not a scene
(21:24):
is a not comfortable situation full stop. Which again I
feel like that's the constant rhetoric we hear when it
comes to people, because that's the first question, especially if
it's a.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Sexy movie, Oh, how did you feel about this? How
did you get into these scenes?
Speaker 4 (21:37):
And immediately everyone's like, it's not sexy, it's work, it's awkward,
it's cold.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
I didn't like it.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yes, yes, I hard agree.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Like there's nothing comfortable and spontaneous about a lot of filming,
like most of filming as an actor, all of it
is like uncomfortable and strange.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
I don't see why. I mean, especially it should be
in my opinion, and.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Like intimacy, like intimate scenes, because like there are all
these things. You have to hit your mark, maybe there's
a greed screen, and you have to be uncomfortably close
to each other to appear natural, like that, the amount
of distance to have like a natural amount of space
between somebody you're like right up in their face. It's
not comfortable. You have to have your eye line in
(22:21):
a certain place. All of this you're supposed to do
as if there aren't eye lines and marks and all
of these things that you're trying to keep in your
head while you're also saying lines and trying to look natural.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
And I think like.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
A lot of practice and rehearsing that doesn't necessarily remove
the spontananity. I think though, what you're doing is you're
marking out in a way that feels safe and comfortable.
You know what's going to happen. You can still have
little spontaneous moments within that as long as it's agreed
upon as right, Oh like a little giggle ers, I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Like there there are ways we rehears that everything.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Why is it like this one thing all that removes
the spontaneity?
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Right?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
It's what right?
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Like people will get mad when a line is improved
at times and it ruins the scene as in like
it gets people cracking up and they talk about how
much money is wasted because of that, and so oftentimes
you will have directors who are absolutely livid. I know
there's there's directors who love it if you can go
with it, but there's you know, like the level of
(23:29):
what is being said and who's wasting money and what's
doing what?
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Why is this which can harm a person? Not as
us respect.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
When you think of it as it does have to
be choreographed because you want to get their right camera angles,
like I don't get it, like, and it is a job.
It is a job, and just like all jobs, we
should be protecting the workers. And many people have pointed
out Emma Thompson is Sean Bean's age and she is
(23:57):
recounting a very different experience.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Is right love before I too? We do.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
Lena Hall, who filmed the sex scene in Snow Piercer
with Being, said that while he made her feel comfortable
and was a good scene partner, quote, if there's any
part of me that is feeling weird, it grows overexposed,
et cetera. I'll either challenge the necessity of a scene
or I want an ic. I do feel that intimacy
coordinators are a welcome addition to the set and think
(24:26):
they could also help with the trauma experience in other scenes.
Sometimes you need them, sometimes you don't. But every single
person in scene and experience is different, which I think
is huge.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
So the scene in.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Question was cut and is kind of at the heart
of this being said of Hall, I suppose it depends
on the actress. This one had a musical cabaret background,
so she was up for anything.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Wow, Wow, condescending and and yeah dismissive.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Hall responded, Just because I am in theater, not cabaret,
but I do perform them every once in a while,
does not mean that I am up for anything. I
don't even understand what that means. Was that like she
got her big break of the movies, so she was
up for anything.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Honestly, I could be wrong, but I feel like it
was some slut shaving.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Okay, is there like, is there.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
An idea that theater people are are slutty I or cabaret.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
People are cabaret.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
I don't know for sure, but that's just the vibe
I got from that statement, or.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
So he said.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
It took out the spontanity. His partners are like, no, no, no, no,
I really wish we had them. I don't understand what
you're doing. So it's very gendered but also toxic. Masculinity
is a part of this when we have a conversation
about the fact that people who are so upset again
are most likely going to be domineering male types who
(25:58):
really think they look good having sex because in reality
sexless goofy as hell.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I agree, honestly, Like, sometimes I get that it turned
some people on, but for me, I'm usually like, oh no,
not this.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Single, please, it's a mess. It is.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Jamila Jamil tweeted it should only be technical. It's like
a stunt our. Job as actors is to make it
not look technical. Nobody wants an impromptu group. I love
that quote because I think that's I don't know if
I said it as succinctly as she did, but like
it's a yeah, you should coordinate it, and then the actor,
if they're a good actor, can make it look like
(26:42):
it's not coordinating. It's not technical, right, that's the job
of the actor. But you still want to have that
in place, right, How.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Are you going to do your job well?
Speaker 4 (26:51):
If out like you're a half concerned about what they're
going to do and where they're in touch without permission, that.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
You're going to be so in your head about it,
and I see that you're probably already to be in
your head about right. Amanda Seyfried said she wished she'd
had an intimacy coordinator on set as a younger actor.
End quote, being nineteen walking around without my underwear on? Like,
are you kidding me? How did I let that happen?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Oh? I know why I was.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Nineteen, and I didn't want to upset anybody, and I
wanted to keep my job.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
That's why. Yep.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
And then not a person or a woman, but the Broadcasting, Entertainment,
Communications and Theater Union issued this statement. Disappointing to hear
these comments from such a screen favorite and established actor
without acknowledging his position of privilege and the vulnerabilities and
challenges many in the industry, particularly young and less experienced actors,
may face as they engage in shooting intimate scenes. And
(27:47):
this is like, as we record this ongoing, people are
coming out of the woodwork to say, actually, yes, I
really would have wish we.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Had had an intimacy coordinator.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
So I saw just this morning, I think some of
the cast of Boy Meets World said that they had
wished they had had intimacy coordinators on set for Boy
Meets World.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
You know, I do.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
I do think about stuff like that with young kids
having their first kiss on screen and how awkward that was.
I will say, I just watched recently the Wes Anderson
and the Older movie with kids half naked touching on
each other, and there were young kids and I'm sitting
here really horrified, like everything about this, And I'm like,
I really hope they had supervision because this in itself
(28:32):
is uncomfortable, awkward, and I hope those kids are okay.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
It's gonna sound strang, but that's actually a great point
in terms of the audience, Like you would have enjoyed
it better if you had known.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
I think I would.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
I should have read like I was so I wanted
to fast forward it fast.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
I mean not to say like some things just make
you uncomfortable, but I think a lot of times for me,
I would enjoy something better if I knew, Okay, they've
took these safety precautions, the people on set were taken
care of, like for me as a.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Viewer, right, well, I mean, and it should be where
it's a professional, like person who's a liison in between
those people, because you don't always have this good relationship.
And I feel like Lena Hall was being nice, especially
after reading Sean Bean's comment, wondering did he really was
he really a good partner or was she just saying
that so not to piss off a legendary film actor
(29:31):
or whatever whatnot? Because you know, we know in Game
of Thrones, Amelia Clark talked about how she would not
have been able to get through those scenes had she
not had such a great actor who protected.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Her literally being like, are you okay with this? Like
had to do some coordinating on their.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
Own in order for protection. But it was him m hm, going,
you know, making the initiative. And I don't know if
they were intimency coordinators, but it didn't sound like it
not from what Clark was saying that it was all
pretty much him protecting her from this and he's like,
if you're not comfortable, tell me, I'll fight them like
that level.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
And she talked about that the fact that it.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Took her after season one of being a big enough
name to be like, I don't want to do this anymore.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
And I think, as we've mentioned throughout that is a
big part of the problem is there's just this pervasive
messaging to especially young women entering trying to enter the business,
like there are thousands like you that want to be here.
If you can't suck it up and do what we
tell you to do, we can get rid of you
and replace you.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
And they will do this easily. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
And I think it's also just like the blase attitude
that some of these men have shown and we're saying
it's not a big deal, it's hilarious, it's funny, or
you know, it feels nice.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Who doesn't want to make out with these young girls.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
I'm sure that's some people's attitudes, but the fact of
the matters. There's a lot of trauma. There was a
scene and I think about this all the time. It
pisses me all off and also puts me at like, yeah,
Chris Pratt's the worst Chris.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Sorry, that's just a personal opinion.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
But in one of the outtakes he thought was hysterical
and shared was the fact that he got completely naked,
took off his Like the scene was that he was
supposed to be naked, but of course he had the
underwear or whatever. They yeah, but he took it off,
flashing Amy Poehler and Rashida Jones. And he came back
when he was telling this story about how they were
really upset about it, and like he tried to play
(31:28):
it off as a joke and they even put it
as a b clip blueber and he was like, they
were actually upset but thought it was hilarious to tell it.
And I'm like, that is sexual assault. I'm sorry, that
is sexual assault in the harassment and honestly, as a
traumatized victim, that would have had me on the floor.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Right right, I think that gosh, that is such a
figure conversation. But yeah, I do think because women just
statistically experience sexual assault and related things at such higher
rates that we have to think about that everywhere. But
like I feel like an art scenes, an artistic endeavors,
(32:07):
it's sort of thrown out the window, like, oh, but
this will be good art and it shouldn't be thrown
out the window. And I think men just don't think
about it because it's not something they have to worry
about every in it of all day. And yes, men
can be assaulted too, but I just it's statistically me
so for him to do that, like it probably never
occurred to him, right this Maybe they have a horrible
(32:30):
experience that this is gonna right off.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
And being a part of the industry, they probably really have. Probably,
But the thing about the matter is like they're so
flippant that this even bypassed people on the set watching
him do it, not thinking anything about it and just
letting it go and saying this is a huge joke.
Him being told don't tell people this because this is
going to get you in trouble. But he told it
on a national TV because he just thought it was hilarious.
(32:54):
Has he ever apologized to it. No, And no one's
really kept them, all them accountablebout everybody treated it as
a And you know what, I get that, I get
that to a certain degree of like he really thought
this would be hilarious, which stop. Just if anybody wants
to know, that's not funny to me, So don't do
that to me.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Thanks.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
But all of that matter in this conversation is like
this is the level of what they think is acceptable.
They just part of the job and that this is
okay and realizing no, this is why it needs a breakdown.
And I'm sorry that the quote unquote fun police have
come through, but for a lot of us, this is
not fun exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
And just because this is artistic, it's still a job.
If you did that at any other job, I would
hope you would be fired. Unfortunately we have instances where
that's not been the case. But generally you should be fired.
And if you have coordinated something out like that and
(33:51):
everyone's prepared, that's different than you just do it as
a joke.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
And this's the thing is like the converse, it's not
about stopping it, stopping sex scenes, stopping.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
The spicy scenes. Don't get me wrong, they're like, oh, okay, cool.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
But at the same it doesn't also mean that there
doesn't need to be regulation. There's a reason there's a
rating system to begin with for the viewers. There should
be a system to set up to protect the actors.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Yes, and I also think that we should come back
and talk about this. I know we've talked about it
a little bit more, but you know, depending on who's
writing it, who's directing it. I think, as some of
these actors have said, you know, there are certain scenes
I don't want to do, and a lot of it's
coming from a male gaze of treating a woman as
an object in a scene. So it's okay to traumatize
(34:42):
her or depict a sexual assault. Maybe it's not necessary,
And maybe intimacy coordinators can be the person who's like, well,
why are we what are we trying to communicate here?
Because if it can be cut, the actor's not comfortable,
Like that's also a part of this. And then and
I did want to run through some really quick personal
(35:04):
experiences I've had because I have worked in some acting before,
and I think like we've mentioned a lot of this throughout,
and I bet a lot of professions can connect this.
But I've certainly been pressured into uncomfortable situations. There generally
has not been hr or if there have been, I
(35:24):
have not been told where they are. Oh I don't
know who to contact. I don't think ever have I
been on a set. And then a lot of times,
if you do an intimate scene, it's supposed to be
only necessary personnel are in there, and they're not supposed
to bring their cell phones. And I have been at
least one time where I saw cell phones and I
(35:44):
didn't know what to like.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
It's like I thought we said there was no cell phones.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
I couldn't have my cell phone. And then yeah, the
whole idea like oh, if you don't do it, thousands
behind you.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
And another thing people brought up.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
A lot that I thought was a great point is
that scripts can be really vague. They are so like
one example a lot of people gave is make passionate love, Like.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Don't you want to choreograph that? What does that mean?
What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (36:12):
You're to roll around and push each other and.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yay, right, like, and people can have different ideas of
what that means for one thing, and you don't want
it to like get a black eye or whatever whatever
you're accidentally throwing elbows, and.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
So that's another area where I just.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
I'm sorry, I just had a moment of like make
passionate love elbow in the face.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
You know you're rolling about an elbow prowl Uh. Yes,
well but yeah, I mean I think that's that's a
great point. How are you supposed to interpret that as
an actor? And then if you're lucky, if you work
on a big enough production, you get to work with
said actor before that and talk about it, discuss it.
But that's not always true either. Sometimes you just walk
(36:58):
in and they're like go of.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Like things like this is planned for next Thursday.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
Oh no, we're doing it today because this is the
best time, or something's gone wrong with the other things.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Yes, yes, that has happened to me, not with an
intimate scene, but with an emotionally intense scene where they're like,
actually we're doing that today, right, all right, I have
five minutes to really get in the state.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
So yeah, that's something that happens.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
And then, as I mentioned, auditions themselves, which are essentially
job interviews, can get really gross and they'll just give
you no warning, tell you to come in and be like,
actually you need to see what you would look like
in a bikini, so can you take off your clothes,
and there's no like, there's no warning you. Again, you're
(37:42):
kind of like no, how much you have that mon
of like does that mean I won't get the job
if I don't do it? But I don't want to
do it, So that's all gross. And I've heard horror stories,
as I said, about big directors doing way worse than that,
which is related to the idea of the male, which
we've talked before, who gets away with everything in the
(38:04):
name of art, even if it means hurting women, sometimes
especially if it means hurting women. So I think that
is at play throughout all of this. And yeah, you
can get really wrapped up in the moment and not
know how to speak up and say you're uncomfortable, especially
if you don't have an advocate, especially if expontaneity is
(38:26):
involved and all of a sudden someone's kissing you or.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Whatever and you don't know you don't want to break
the scene.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
You don't know what's happening, Like it's not good. We've
just heard so many, over and over again stories of
(38:53):
young actresses being taken advantage of by older men, and
these scenes can be.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Just a rife space for that.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
And yeah, I mean enthusiastic, consent and sexy this idea
that a lot of it, a lot of it embodies
that men who don't like it, it seems to be like, wait, what,
I can't do anything I want?
Speaker 2 (39:19):
The fashion romance is diod.
Speaker 4 (39:23):
Well I mean, and also like I just remember the
Nicole Kidman movie Dogville. Had no idea what the promise
of the movie was. It was getting a lot of accolades,
and there was a woman. There was a moment when
in the movie there are rape scenes, but it's pretty
much like laid out like it's a play, so it's
just cut, just taped off.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
You're supposed to know what this is. But it was
absolutely a movie, a play within a movie.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
And still in Scarsguard has a really intense rape scene
with Nicole Kidman. He talks about it and he couldn't
even speak it in English, like he was so distraught
from the scene he was so disturbed by it, like
as they were interviewing him about the scene, because I
had to go, I had to like detox for it,
(40:09):
and I need to know. They were okay, like that's
how far I had to go for it. Of course,
it's large vauntrier who is one of those that really
pushes quote unquote the envelope or whatever, and he was
disturbed by it. He was so perturbed by that he
literally could not explain what he was what.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Had happened in English was I thought.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
I was like, this is before I knew who he
was as the big actor that he was, and I
was like, oh my god, what's happening. He has a
really good English uh razor accident in the movie, but
then he's just like breaking down crying, Like this is
about the fact that in those scenes, I hope as
a human that these male actors who have to portray
(40:53):
this feel just as bad and discussing and gross about this, right.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
I mean, yeah, we've been talking a lot about women,
but anybody in is right. Those are emotionally intense and
traumatic scenes, right.
Speaker 4 (41:05):
And of course we are going like a different route
with that conversation, like like oh, it's just not fun,
and it takes out a spontaneity. Again though we know
most of the times a lot of these movies take
unnecessary leaps into making it traumatic and a violation for
women for the characters, which sometimes is like this is
not necessary, I don't understand what this is and like
(41:26):
the fact that, yeah, it's traumatizing to everyone around. I
would hope there should be a conversation and a breakdown
of the scenes or you know, what's happening without truly
violating either one of the actors in these moments, and
theos asks to consist. Of course we're not really in
the movie. You know, that's not supposed to be the play,
but you should be able to do so behind the scenes,
to do it correctly and safely for both actors.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Mm everyone involved.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
It's like, yeah, I would even hope, like they have
like a speech they give to the crew. And there
are there are some instances of underqualified ices that have
gotten through and have provided bad experiences, and that is
something that those in the in the small industry are
(42:14):
working to change.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
But overall it seems that they make everything.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
They make things better for everybody, and they make the
set more safe, and they make you know the enerchangmage better.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Uh so, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
If you're interested, there are resources available online which I
definitely checked out.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
I was just kind of curious. I was like, what
am I going to have to do if I wanted
to do this?
Speaker 1 (42:39):
They do say it takes like years, like they aren't
young Intimacy coordinators really like, you really have to put
in the time and work. But yes, you should go
check that out if you're at all interested. And yeah,
my TLDR for this one is intimacy scenes. Intimate scenes
are stunts, They're vulnerable stunts and this whole thing, it's
a job. So intimacy coordinators are important for ensuring everyone's safety, comfort.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
And the best performances on an everyone.
Speaker 4 (43:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Yes, So if you would like to contact us you can.
Our email is Stephanie moms steffantiheartmia dot com. You can
find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on
Instagram at steffan Never Told You.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Thanks. It's always to our super producer Christie.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
Thank you, Christina, and thanks to you.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
For listening Stuff and Never Told You respection from iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, you can check out the
iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcast where you listen to your favorite shows.
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