May 4, 2024 • 47 mins
In this classic, Anney and Samantha talk crop tops, space politics, forbidden love and Padmé Amidala. We hope we're not breaking your heart and going down a path you can't follow. Also all who hate sand are welcome.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm welcome to stuff I've never told your production by
Heart Radio, and welcome to a very special classic today
if you're listening to which when it comes out is
May the Fourth Star Wars Day.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
May the Fourth be with you.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Also there's Revenge of the Fifth and or six, depending
on who you ask. But to that end, I wanted
to bring back a classic episode we did on the
Star Wars prequels, which, funnily enough, I think I would
have a lot more to say about.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Them if we did them now.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Of course you would, of course I think I was like,
my viewpoints have changed on something. Yeah, the twenty fifth
anniversary of The Phantom Menace is this month. Since this year,
it's happening now because it's playing in theaters. And if
you listen to my recent Happy Hour wherein I talk
(01:04):
about some of my new Star Wars thoughts, I've talked
about this theory about Padme, who was very key in
the prequels, and it was a theory about why Darth
Vader never since Luke and Lea. I wanted to bring
one key point I forgot to bring up in that
about this I've talked about this before in my episode
my Happy Hour called My fan Fiction is Better Than Yours.
(01:27):
Star Wars has this whole fascinating thing that is very
prevalent in it, which is called wat Sonyan versus Doulian.
This is essentially kind of are we explaining it because
of outside forces or something inside story wise, or like
(01:47):
they couldn't get Mark Hamill, like you know what I mean.
So that being said, I've had some interesting disagreements with
friends about this before. But obviously one of the reasons
Vader didn't since Leya is because they didn't know Leyah
was his kid until they wrote Return of the Jedi, right,
(02:11):
So that's a very like lot Sony and versus Douleian.
And then we're trying to explain it, or even the
creators are trying to explain it much later with this
very cool theory, which they might have done on purpose
or might not have done a lot of times, the
fans are doing this work and no one knows what
we're talking about. So I don't know if that's the
case here, but I just felt like I should bring
that up, is that the Layah wasn't his daughter. That's
(02:35):
not what they were thinking until Return of the Jedi,
So just a note on that. Okay, yes, but anyway,
I hope that you enjoy the holiday, if you celebrate.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
And please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is any
and Samantha, and.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Welcome to stuff on. I told your production of iHeartRadio.
So today I wanted to ask you, Samantha. I'd I'd
be very interested to know the answer to this question.
Has there ever been something that you really loved as
(03:21):
a kid and then people made you feel really embarrassed
or ashamed of loving it, and then as you got older,
maybe you didn't come back to it, but you gave
it like a deeper, a deeper thought.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I don't know. I'm trying to think of things that
I loved as a kid, but I don't know if
I ever felt shame of it necessarily. I mean, we
could go real deep into the fact that trying to
be very away from my culture. So I was very
ashamed to try to do anything that was Asian because
I want to acclimate so badly. I know I loved
Babysitters Club, but I feel like most of my friends did,
(03:54):
so we were cool on that. I love old movies,
but it was something that I could do on my own,
so no one really needed to tell me otherwise. I
always felt like I was trying to fit in and
so was it that I loved it, but I was
trying to make myself love it, right, So I was
one of those kids, So I don't I don't think
I do. I will say I did really love Twilight
(04:16):
in my thirties, I guess maybe twenties, late twenties, which
there was a bit of a shame factor. But even
the people who made fun of me when I would
have them watch it or get them interested to, so
they no longer felt shame. So I know I felt
shame very good. So I no longer felt shame because
I got them into it too, so I they couldn't
say anything right, right, No, I don't really know.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
That's a good example, because I do feel like a
lot of people shamed, especially young girls and women, for
liking Twilight. Right. Yeah, It's strange because I was both
my relationship with my brothers. I had two brothers when older,
and one younger was at times very antagonistic. But it's
complicated because they both made me feel ashamed of the
(05:03):
things I liked, Like I was made fun of for liking.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Star Wars even though they liked Star Wars.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
And I was made fun of for liking Harry Potter
even though they liked Harry Potter. But I will say
on that one not at the same level as I did.
But they did make fun of me for liking Star Wars.
But at the same time I did. I wanted their
I don't know if respect is the right word, but
almost acceptance, I guess. So when I would go yeah,
when I would go to school, I was kind of
(05:32):
immune to like if people made fun of me for
liking Star Wars, that didn't hurt, but my brothers did,
if that makes sense, because I loved it and I
was like, I know it's I know, I love.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
It and whatever.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
But then in this context of like my brothers making
fun of me, that was kind of Oh.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
But this is.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Especially pertinent to the conversation having today, which is about
the Star Wars prequel see yep, yep. And I'll get
more into that in a second. But I did want
to give a quick shout out to Jamie. Hello, Jamie,
Hello for sending is amazing care Kitka.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yes, yes, we really do appreciate.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Some of the poetics.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Those with Sabbie things were the bomb, yes, yeah, and
also to Don who made these amazing what I'd never heard.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Of it called yarn bombs. Yeah yeah yeah, which are
these just like really big?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I voted and there's a peach one that for voting
in Georgia obviously, and they're just so impressive. And I
really am impressed with the things that you listeners can do.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Such talent since Clochet did not work out so well,
so such talent, yes, I guess netting more so than Crochet,
but yes.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Either case. So I also want to put in here
before we get into this.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
We do a lot of you listeners have sent in
suggestions for feminist movie Friday, and thank you so much
for sending those, and also the book suggestions, because it
does help us.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Decide because there's a lot of.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Books and movies out there and we want to do
things that you like, and those are on the list.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
I swear we're gonna get so I am sorry.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I guess that today we are starting off a three
part Feminist Maybe Friday series on the Star Wars trilogies,
starting with the prequels and building up to May the
Fourth Be with You slash Star Wars Day and Revenge
of the Fifth.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Can't forget Revenge of the Fifth.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I don't know that the timing will work out because
I think we might have miscalculated. I think we did
because originally we were going to end on the original
trilogy because it's my favorite. But now if we want
that one to be may the fourth be with you
that that will be the next one.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
We'll just have to decide.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Oh okay, okay, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, work it out.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Well. I have faith in us. I think we can
work this out.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
So these are going to be a bit different in
that we're focusing more on the woman at the center
of each trilogy and some overarching themes as opposed to
one movie.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
And this was Samantha's idea. I swear. I don't know
one will believe me.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
It's true. It's true. We have been talking, and since
I have been taken over, the last few movies have
been my suggestions. I did make you watch The Mummy
Returns because it brought me joy.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
I thought that was a break.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
I made you watch a musical, even though those can
make you uncomfortable, you know. Yeah, all of these things
were like my choices, and I was like you know what,
we need to go back into the fandom that we
know you love. And right now I cannot escape. You
cannot escape. No one if you are a part of
our world, really can't escape. So it kind of let's
(08:34):
just dig in. Let's just get all the way in,
and I.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Will say, as there is some some light at the
end of this pandemic tunnel. And I have been reflecting
on on this year in my apartment. I Star Wars
has really got me through in a lot of ways,
like and You're not the only one. It has been
(08:57):
my comfort, like the thing that I watched, the like reading.
I've watched all the shows which I had before, and
I don't know that I ever would have. And I
feel like much more qualified to talk about this now.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
I feel like, Okay, I got this. I've been reading
the comics like it's really been.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
When I look back at Quarantine, I think one of
the like memories I'm going to have is just Star
Wars being a constant, like stressed reliever.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
I think you're gonna like it's gonna be one of
those things when you watch it after the quarantine is
lifted and we're all kind of figuring out the New normal. Right,
every time you're watching it, you're going to have that
sentimental feeling of that comfort from this time.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, I think so. I was wondering what that's going
to be like to watch these outside of this. But
because in case I haven't mentioned it before, I have
watched you original trilogy at least every Sunday since last
March thirteenth, So that's a lot. But I do other
stuff while they're on, but they're like my thing that
I put on comforting.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
You say that you kne their stuff, but there's definitely
those moments where you cannot be touched or talked to
because you're just like the audible gaps that happened to you.
Even though I know this is your one million, two
hundred thousand, sixty eight whatever time, Yeah, that you've watched it,
you still get so caught up.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah, there's like six scenes that I cannot be disturbed
and they still have an emotional impact, which I find
really really interesting. But yeah, I did want to say
it was really funny to me when you were like, oh,
these will be really easy for you to want to
research it, and I was mentally like, oh, I got
to read these books and I gotta do this.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
I gotta do this trying not to.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, you make the mistake of telling me what you're
thinking about writing. I'm like, no, you can't do that.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, yeah, So I had to stop myself on this one,
so that's a bit shorter.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I was very impressed.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, yeah, Well, I wanted to read those three books,
the trilogy about Padme, who we're going to be talking
about today, but alas the time ran out.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
So others ours.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Women are definitely going to be featuring in our segment
subsegment fictional women around the world, So never fear or
have fear.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I think it will help for people who, you know,
if you want to know more about Ahsoka Tano but
don't necessarily want to watch all the shows and everything.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
I think they'll be good primers.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
I've always come to you for those.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Thank you, and I know.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
You did like a very massive two partner on Princess
Leah already.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
But we're going to mix it up, so.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Let's go ahead and jump in. Yes, today we're talking
about the much maligned Star Wars prequel trilogy, and I
understand it. I'm like, what is happening? Why is this happening.
I think I said that a lot. The Penttomenace, Attack
of the Clones, and Revenge of the Sith and their
main female character, pat mat Naberi Queen Amidala played by
Natalie Portman. She was like sixteen seventeen. We were looking
(11:51):
this up the other day.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yeah, this was like her first start, like big role
because she done other stuff, but.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Well, like she was pretty big beforehand with The Hitman
or The Profession, The Professional, which is one of my
favorite movies. So Bona's discussion of related comics, televan shows,
and video games. Not surprisingly, Yes, I also want.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
To say that it's become a running joke with Samantha
that she agrees with one of the worst lines in
all the movies.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
I don't like sex, not wrong, Sandy is not great.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
But it gets everywhere. He is so right, and I
will hold to that, all right.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
So here's the part of these three movies in a nutshell.
So we follow Anakin Skywalker's journey from young child to
trouble Jedi groomed by super creeper Senator Palpatine Slash the Emperor,
to Darth Vader. And I had this poster in my
wall when I was a kid and it was the
young actor who plays Anakin Skywalker and he's like nine.
(12:48):
This shadow was Darth Vader, and I thought it was
the coolest thing. So yes, Darth Vader being Luke and
Lea's father. In the original trilogy, we see the destruction
of the brotherhood between Anakin and his master and friend
Obi Wan Kenobi, the intense love he has for Queen
and later Senator Padme Amidala that in part leaves him
(13:11):
to fall to darkness and to evil. We see Padme's
death and Luke and Lea's separation so that they can
be hidden from the Emperor and Vader.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
There are tax.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Disputes and lava battles and so many lost limbs thoughts
on sand. Yes, very awkward dialogue which George Lucas has
now said was on purpose, which I found very funny.
The very problematic racist tropes, and also a lot of
quite sad deaths and death of children.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, and very weird water scenes for those who, for
whatever reason, weren't plugged into the world of Star Wars
when this came out, much like myself, there was so
much hype. I do remember, people will get really, really
really excited, especially with they were announcing the actors who
would be portraying whomever, and these movies were coming out
sixteen years after the last movie of the original trilogy
(13:59):
really hard to do, which was the Retard of the
Jedi or Episode six, which is very confusing and I
have to ask constantly what what, wait, huh when does
this take place? Lots of timelines, lots of timelines. The
original trilogy had just been re released in nineteen ninety seven, which,
by the way, is happening again, right? No? I thought, no, no,
(14:21):
not that they were re releasing it soon. Ye I'm wrong.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Well, there was an odd thing that I never got
to the bottom of last Christmas where they were trailers
on YouTube videos that were acting as if the most
recent movie, Rise of Skywalker, was coming out in theaters again.
It was very confused because it came out a year before.
I don't know about the original trilogy. I know Empire
strikes Back as one of the top grossing movies of
twenty twenty because they were showing it old movies and
(14:47):
drive ins and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
I do.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
I saw this when I was a kid at Delanaga
had a really small movie theater called the Holly, and
I went to go see the re releases at the
Holly and it definitely violated coaches. People were just standing
in there. It was packed and it was the coolest thing.
But those are the versions. This also commusis Samantha so
much and I'm like, well, that's a Disney plus version,
and that's this. These are the ones that most people
(15:11):
probably own. The nineteen ninety seven releases. That's when George
Lucas put in kind of this bad cgi in these
older movies.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
That was foretelling of what was to happen in the
pantom Mint.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yes, and I did watch all of those guys. I
watched all of them, so fans were pumped to see
how hero anakas Skyle Walker became a Darth Vader. And
then they weren't good. Apparently I didn't enjoy them myself,
but I just assumed it was because I don't love
Star Wars like everyone else does, and maybe I'm just
a little more skeptical. I don't know. There were parts
(15:44):
of them that were good, and there really was no
way they could have lived up to the hype. But
apparently they just were very good.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
I mean, that was the consensus Yeah, people were let down.
You know.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
The hype was very very chance and I will say
I was eleven, I think when the first installment, The
Phantom Menace came out in nineteen ninety nine, and I
loved it.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
I loved it. I saw it several times in theaters.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
I had the toys, including one of my favorite toys
of all time to this day, which was this droid
and you had a lightsaber with this tracking mechanism and
it would shoot out these disk at you and you
had to hit them with your lightsaber.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
The coolest, it was the coolest.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I also spent twenty dollars trying to get an Anakin
Skywalker toy from a claw machine and I'm sure I
could have just bought the toy like six dollars.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yeah. I had the cards.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
I had all of the cards, the books, the shirts,
the posters.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Oh, my friends and I was thinking about this other day.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
We were in high school when Revenge of the Sith
came out, which was the last one, and we all
had shirts made and went our matching Revenge of the
Sifth shirts.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
To go see it. And I am still friends with
every one of those people to this day. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Oh, and then I won this really really cool backpack
that I gave away. I'm so mad I gave it away,
but it did become very, very uncool almost immediately. But
I was shielded by my child innocence to like the prequels,
so I gave all of this stuff away and now
I'm sad about it.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
The soundtrack was the first CD I ever bought. And
you know, despite being.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Much maligned, people complaining and their reviews not being great,
these movies did make a lot of money and they
were kids movies, and I think that they succeeded in
that way, not that they were necessarily good, but I
firsually think there's a whole generation of kids out there
that grew up with the prequels and didn't have that
level of expectation or nostalgia for the original trilogy, and
(17:42):
they might even prefer the prequels. And we've talked about
how toxic fandom can be and Star Wars largely dude
fans of Star Wars can be really, really intense and
some of the worst in my opinion, when it comes
to this. So the backlash was quite furious and vitriol,
and I think we sometimes forget that as beloved as
(18:03):
they are. The original trilogy are kids movies too, so
it's like kids who grew up with the original trilogy
and loved it became adults went in to see these prequels,
and I theorized forgot there for kids, right, like, ideally
adults would like them too.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
But and yeah, they weren't good in a lot of.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Ways, but people were pissed pissed, and yeah, I got
made fun of a lot for liking them. Recently, the
prequels have been getting some love or at least not
outright hate as time has.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Passed, right, So, yeah, a lot of things are coming
back up with the fact that Obi Wan Kenobi's about
to get his own little show, right, and then we're
gonna see Anakin Skywalker again coming through, So apparently they're
getting some kind of love. Yeah, who knows. So pad Me,
let's talk about pad Main and a Berry, who is
(18:56):
not only in the movies but apparently in the comics,
which you've been telling me a lot about. Also the
animated series The Clone Wars you also told me about that,
and books like the recent Queen's Hope by E. K. Johnston.
Her name Padme means lotus flower, while Amidala might mean
beautiful flower and the bari means mother of twins, little
(19:18):
en the rose there.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
And I didn't include this for you specifically, Samantha, because
you recently. You didn't make fun of me, but you
kind of teased me about this fan fiction. I was
reading about Luke owning a flower shop, and you're like,
it doesn't make sense, and.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
I was like, well, what it doesn't add to make sense.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
It's fan fiction, but flowers were a key part of
his well.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
I was just saying, wouldn't he be an actual teacher
of sorts? How he did?
Speaker 3 (19:43):
He was both.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, So it just didn't seem possible to me.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
I think you're just trying to pick on mean while yet.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
So.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Padme is a human woman from the planet Naboo, where
she ruled as the Democrat elected queen when she was fourteen.
She served as a member of the Galactic Senate during
the last year of the Republic. One of her most
defining traits is her political idealism and dedication to democracy.
Padmey knew early on that she was interested in helping
(20:16):
people through politics. At the age of seven, she participated
in a failed relief effort that only strengthened her determination
to help people through public service when we are first
introduced her in Phantom Menace, so she does appear earlier
than this, confusingly in the extended universe. Star Wars is
very very messy in that way. But the first time
most people were equainted with her in Phantom Menace. She
(20:38):
is fourteen, and she spends much of the film undercover
in quotes as a handmaiden to the Queen Amidala. And
Amidala is Padmey's name is Queen Queens of Naboo have
a detail of trained lookalikes that serve as protectors, among
other things, and that's the movie I want to see.
But so she's one of these lookalikes, is pretending to
(21:02):
be Queen Amidala while the actual Queen Amidala padme is
pretending to be a handmaiden.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Makes perfect sense, got it?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
And she accompanies the Jedi Qui gon Jen and Obi
Wan Kenobi and meets her future secret husband, Anakin Skywalker,
who is a nine year old enslaved child on the
planet of Tatooine. At the time, Padme is confident with
the blaster and in her leadership, and she was a
much beloved political figure on her planet and an inspiration
(21:32):
for many. After serving two terms as Queen, the people
tried to amend the constitution so she could serve again,
but she declined. However, thanks to her manipulative colleague, she Palpatine,
the Emperor, the future Emperor, and her desperation to save
for people, she initiated the vote of no confidence that
(21:52):
made the way for Palpatine to rise to the role
of Supreme Chancellor. As a senator, was a pivotal figure
in the separatist crisis, proving herself to be a skilled
negotiator and speaker, quick on her feet, and competent in
combat situations. She aligned herself with senators Orghana and mon Mathma,
who influenced her politics and would later go on to
(22:15):
be leaders of the Rebel Alliance, and Belle would go
on to raise her daughter Leah.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
So again, like, imagine as.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
You were seeing these, if you knew the original childre well,
you were seeing like, oh, it's that person, it's that person.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
So I can totally understand. People are listening like, well,
what are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
But Mam Mathma and beil r Ghana are kind of
these big figureheads of the rebellion, and even if it's
not happening at that time, you know kind of what
they're going to become. Padme had her her fair share
of enemies, and an assassination attempt forces her to go
into hiding with none other than Jedi Anakin Skywalker, who
at this point he's nineteen and she's twenty four, so
(22:54):
we're a little older. They fall in love, but the
Jedi code forbids possession and detachment.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Oh, don't get me started on the Jedi code.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
After a coliseum battle and which Padme resourcefully picks a lot,
but then has one of the silliest tearing of costumes
that results in like this perfect crop top that I've
ever seen. She and Anakin secretly marry, a marriage that
later has galactic repercussions. Because of her involvement in politics
from a young age, she doesn't get to live outside
(23:26):
of that structure that much, and she longs for freedom,
something of our own. You do see that in the
comics and the books, and that's one of the reasons
for the secret marriage, is she wanted something of her own.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Also, she was quite young and.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
In love, yeah, very young. Due to their responsibilities during
the Clone Wars. Then I've been just told that it
is not the movie or the anime series, but a
time period.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
It's what happens, it is all of us.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
So I'm trying to get myself bearings. Anakin and Padme
did not get much time together, as we saw, and
we see the flaws and their relationships, lots of secrets
and the strain again of keeping a secret. I feel
like that's just a cautionary tale for all the movies.
Padme's first priorities are her ideals and democracy. The changes
(24:13):
when she finds out she is pregnant, something that will
make hiding her relationship with Anakin even more difficult. Surprise, surprise, well,
she does wear the really big goaln she does. However,
both are thrilled at the news babies. Soon after the revelation,
Anakin begins having visions of Padme and their child's death,
something he is desperate to prevent. He learns that Palpatine
(24:35):
is a sixth Lord, and he promises that by using
the Dark Side he'll be able to save his wife
and their baby.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Lies.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
He succumbs to the dark Side and ignores Padma's pleas
for him to come back, strengthening her into unconsciousness. At
a secret medical center, weird medical center, she gives birth
to Luke and Leah, surprise twins. She dies of heartbreak,
which I still find hard to believe, or perhaps more
likely Palpatine killed her, proclaiming with her dying breath that
(25:06):
she knows they're still good. In Anakin, who by now
has assumed his identity as Darth Vader, we get to
see that whole big scene, believing his wife and child
to be dead at his hands, which is still I'm
still trying to figure that one out. The Republic she
fought so hard for is destroyed and replaced by the Empire,
with her husband functioning as its enforcer. In the wake
(25:28):
of her death, Patme becomes a symbol of democracy and
later the rebellion itself. Her children went on to play
a major role in dismantling the Empire as we know
and restoring democracy and in the end the redemption of
Anakin Skywalker.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Oh gosh, this is some of those things sometimes when
I and I know I've talked to you about this
before with like the Last of Us, Samantha.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Sometimes when you just write.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Out a plot and you take away all the clunky
dialogue and just get to the bare bones.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
What the story is not the case the Lastibah has
been in this. It's so sad. That's a sad tale.
And we're gonna we're gonna get.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Into some of these these sad elements and feminist elements,
but first we're gonna polish for a quick break for
word from our sponsor, and we're bad. Thank you sponsor,
(26:26):
since it is a big part of this. I didn't
want to ask, do you think you could do a
secret marriage?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Samantha funny story. I have a friend who got married,
never told her parents. It's not necessarily a secret to
anybody else who is close to them, but her parents
still think she's not married, and she's been able to
pull it off. And I'm still baffled by this. Wow, Personally,
I don't know if because I just don't care about
marriage for me personally, so I don't know if I
(26:52):
would care enough to try secret marriage. That just seems
like extract right. And I say this in today's society
where it's okay to be together and just to be
in a partnership, and I enjoy that, so kind of like, well,
why would I go to the trouble of having a
marriage if I'm keeping it a secret, if I don't
care to be married, So why so I don't know,
(27:15):
would you? Uh?
Speaker 3 (27:18):
I mean I similarly, I don't really want to get it.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
But if I was in a situation where I did,
I can see how the strains of it, and especially
not being able to communicate those like strains with other
people are in front of other people, wouldn't make it
very difficult and resentment could build or just like not
because you're not communicating honestly with other people. So I
(27:41):
can see how that would really mess up your communication
in that relationship, and you wouldn't ever quite be sure.
I mean, obviously, if you had a healthy relationship, you
would be secure and like, Okay, this is fine. But
I think the very fact of key being in a
secret feels like it's not fine in some.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Way, right, I think my friend who isn't and this
is a completely different tone. It's not necessarily she's trying
to keep it a secret. It's just she's just not
telling everyone. Sure it doesn't care too in the story.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Right, Yeah, And this is obviously like a intergalactic space
war situation where they're both in they have responsibilities to
a larger and to tree that puts a lot of
pressure on them.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
I mean, I guess this could be a tale of like, yes,
they're in love, but also their young teenagers are being
told they can't be in love, so yeah, a double
like ooh.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Yeah, yeah, that's true. And there's a lot of trauma
behind a lot of their decisions before. We've talked about
in a minute, But I didn't want to put in
here because there's this recent TikTok story, Like a TikTok
user used math to suggest that Padme is the strongest
character in Star Wars based on the scene and attack
of the Clones when Padme jumps from the top of
(28:59):
this really tall hole onto a reek which is kind
of like a big rhino thing.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
And doesn't even flinch.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
The user Shayey, calculated how much force that would put
on the body and then argued from there that it
makes her the strongest character.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
And you and I discussed that in our viewing because.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
I was like, al because we watched this for this
upcoming and I was like, aw, how does that not
hurt a b Also, she is one of the only
ones who can actually hit people with her guns. Yeah,
I'm like, Okay, what is wrong with everybody else? Why
are these laser guns so bad?
Speaker 2 (29:37):
You've heard my theories. But that's a different time. And
she's badass in a lot of ways. She's intelligent, compassionate, curious, determined,
she's capable, she's brave, she's a good leader. She champions
things like the anti slavery campaign. But yes, in a
lot of ways, the movies especially did her wrong. And
one of the big ways, in my opinion, is blaming
(29:59):
when because there's this narrative of her being the cause
of Anakin's fall to the dark side, and some of
that comes from outside interpretations. So a lot of write
ups blame Padme, sometimes not explicitly, but the language is
pretty pretty implicit for the fall of the Republican rise
(30:21):
of the Empire because of her secret marriage to Anakin
that pushed him to fall. But I think it takes
two to tango friends, and she's not responsible for his
actions in the end. They were both young and in
love and they made mistakes, but it is not solely
on her that he became dark.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Right, she was young, and I keep talking about that
as well. When she was elected and I'm still trying
to wrap my mind around that. I mean, she admits
she believed she might not have been ready. We do
you see that? And through her evolution we see her mature,
holding on to her idealism but learning when to compromise,
although she did compromise and things that maybe she shouldn't have. Yeah, still,
she was young when she died, and plenty of older
(31:03):
male folks in the film deserves some of the blame
for what happened. Again, her death just seems silly to
me in this movie. I know it had to happen
for the development of the plot, but like, really, this
is how you're gonna kill her all, okay? And they
were all fooled and manipulated by the Emperor. However, many
paint her as a simple love interest that ruined everything women.
(31:26):
So it's another example of something we see and discuss
a lot in our entertainment, a woman's death jump starting
a male character story, in this case Darth Vaders.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Yeah, even Anakin believe she has betrayed him for Obi
Wan Kenobi, which leaves him to attack her. She begs
him to come back to raise their child together, which
is exactly why he joined the dark Side in the
first place to protect them, but he refuses, arguing instead
they could overthrow the emperor and rule the galaxy together,
(31:55):
ignoring the fact that that's what she dedicated her whole
life to finding out against dictatorship. He's so overcome with
the fear of losing her, of being powerless, that he
loses her and serves a new master as slaved to
the dark Side. That's something else that eroded the trust
between Padme and Anakin, his closeness to Palpatine, especially given
(32:17):
how dedicated she was the Republican preventing that slow creep
of emergency powers and militarism. There are even scenes where
she comes in and he chooses to stand by Palpatine
and not her when they're like arguing. So some people
have said that this kind of complex, convoluted thing is
(32:38):
why these movies aren't as satisfying, because they aren't the
simple good versus bad star wars miss stories we're used to.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Like.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Don't get me wrong, the original CHILDI has a lot
of complex layers to it, but in the end, it's
kind of like, these are the bad guys, these are
the good guys, Like you know the lines and these
are blurrier.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
The characters don't know who exactly they're fighting. We do
as the audience.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Except really frustrating, but they don't the good guys, and
these make cat astraphic mistakes that lead to tragedy and darkness,
which watching these in the air of Trump hit differently.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
I gotta say, yeah, I definitely you've definitely heard like
the Stormtrooper margin a lot.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Yeah, So apparently Annie you told me this and I'm
gonna go ahead and relay it. There was a whole
scrapped plot line that pad May actually was more forced
sensitive than Anakin during her pregnancy with Luke and Leah. Interesting,
our other strapped endings had Padme leaving Anakin to start
(33:41):
the rebellion. Apparently there's the deletedt scene where she joins
up with Belle Organa and man Mathma to create the
Alliance to restore the public. But how'd that go with
the fight that Leyah is supposed to be adopted by.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
I think she was still going to die, but she
had this scene of like, I'm gonna set this up
so she started it, and.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Then okay, or even trying to kill him when she
realizes what he's become which I feel like the big
clue was when he killed that entire population of people
of creatures, including the children and the women, and he
admits it and was okay with it, like he cried,
but he's like it felt good, Yeah, like an avengance
of his mother. I was like that seems like that
(34:20):
has a huge sidney.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
There's many red flags with him.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
And while Padme does get to do her fair share
of ASKI king, she certainly does more ask kicking than
I'm used to seeing from Queens and Sinner, just especially
as a kid when.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
I was watching these.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
She does end up meeting quite a bit of rescuing too,
and or you see her in a fair amount of distress.
So in that crop top incident in the second movie,
which I want to include the description from star wars
WICKI fantom of that quote. This tore the waistband and
up her clothing, and Amidala screamed and sobbed in pain
as tears trickled down her cheek. I don't remember the
(34:59):
sop pain crying, but anyway, Anakin is the one that
ultimately comes to her rescue. She falls out of their
transport and falls unconscious. Soon after that, there are plenty
of instances of her being captured or poisoned or what
haves you in the show, though to be fair, she
does find a way out herself fairly regularly.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
There's also a.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Really weird, kind of creepy plot line with an X
of hers and a really jealous Anakin that feels like,
because most of that show does feel, oh, this is
very much for children.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
In that episode, I was.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Like, whoa, this is pretty dark and weird. And she
spends a good portion of the third movie crying and
in emotional distress that ultimately kills her. We're going to
get into some some people have a different interpretation of
that in a minute, but and you know, it was
very devastating. A lot of very bad things were happening,
but still she did spend most of the movie kind
(35:50):
of just crying. So, speaking of heartbreak and her death,
this is probably one of the most calling things about
her storyline, that she dies of heartbreak after giving Bird
to her children. With everything we know about her, it
seems like she would fight like hell to protect them.
And there is a part of me that gets the
(36:11):
romantic in heavy quotes aspect of it that she was
so in love with Anakin, and that knowing what he
did and what he'd become and how he destroyed in
part what she'd work so hard to better and to
preserve that it killed her.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
But it just feels like such a cop out.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
And every time I watch these movies, if you take
away the silliness, yeah, and the awkward dialogue and clunky
extraneous storylines, I'm really taken aback by how sad they are.
But she was strong, like I feel like she would
have she would have fought. But all that being said,
some have pointed out that it's never confirmed in canon.
(36:46):
It's never officially been confirmed that she died of heartbreak,
and in fact, it's heavily implied the Emperor killed her
from a fog with his dog magic powers, because how
did he know she was dead when he told Darth Vader.
That's like one of the big things. The medbot treating
her says she has lost the will to live, which
could be heartbreak or I guess dark force powers that
(37:08):
a robot doesn't know about.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Fair And again, we are focusing on Padme today, but
because we do talk a lot about trauma and grooming
on the show, that plays a huge part in the
Fall of Anakin Skywalker after growing up enslaved, he had
to leave his mother behind enslavement, and when he finally returns,
she dies in his arms and he's terrified of going
through that pain again. With Padme, you've got the Emperor
(37:33):
grooming him and offering him a solution and whisperinging his
ears constantly.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Yeah, Samantha knows, I'll just be like, he's so great
for randomly she does. And here I wanted to include
an email we got a while back from a listener
named cale Hi. Cale Cale wrote about what we're talking
about right here.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Quote.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
This email is mainly for Annie because it's about Star Wars,
but Samantha is for you to read as well. I
was listening to movie Crush and I heard you talk
about how you've been watching the Clone Wars animated series
and your mixed feelings about Anakin since the show humanized
him so much. And I am so happy to hear that.
I did not watch Star Wars as a kid, and
my first real exposure to the series was when my
partner showed me the Clone Wars series. I mostly watched animation.
(38:16):
It got me into Star Wars and after watching the series.
I went back and watched all of the movies and
rebels as well. Watching the Clone Wars really humanized Anakin
in a way that hit me hard. Watching him be
groomed by Palpatine, being forced a hide his relationship with Padme,
and having no one to really go to about his
emotions and nightmares truly made him an island. A person
in such pure isolation is so easily manipulated, and so
(38:37):
watching him fall prey to Palpatine and the prequels was
so difficult for me to see. I have a lot
of deep rooted emotions about the show, Anakin and Anakin's relationships.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
With various characters.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
I would not say that I forgive him of his evils,
but that watching the Clone Wars and how it makes
Anakin relatable gave me insight to him as a person
and truly made me feel so much for him. I
have written a pseudo essay ramble about how I feel
about the Jedi Order, It's shortcomings when it comes to humanity, sentience, emotions, relationships,
and how the rigidity of the Orders ultimately what led
Anakin to choosing the dark side and becoming Vader.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
If you're interested, I would love to share it with you.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
I know that not a lot of people read into
and analyze individual characters and movies and books as much
as you do, and I feel a real kindredness to
you and how you really see each character when talking
about them on Sminty. Yes, I love this so much.
I would love to read your essay. That is right
up my alley and something I would do. I have
thought so in depth about these characters, and yes, definitely
(39:33):
Anakin and darth Vader and the psychology of Darth Vader
is something that I will bring up at any time,
But that is another aspect to this, as well as
the show really exploring that isolation and the grooming and
the kind of tragedy that it led to. On top
(39:56):
of that, Padme's death haunted him for the rest of
his life, haunted Anakin Darth Vace for the rest of
his life, saying her name in front of him very
likely he could get you killed. He never ever emotionally
recovered from it, and that turned into indiscriminate violence and rage.
At one point, he encounters a ghostly massage of Padme,
and when he begs her to come back to him,
she kills herself instead, and that is messed up. At
(40:19):
another point, he attempted to resurrect her with an ancient
artifact and failed. Here's the quote from Johnston, author of
those Padme trilogy books we mentioned earlier.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
I had to include this. Anakin Skywalker is a.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Bit of a downer for me in terms of writing,
because everything he touches ends badly. Quigan dies, his mom dies,
Padme dies, the galaxy falls apart. It does not go
well for people involved in Anakin Skywalker's story when he's.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
The main character. True. A note about the handmaidens.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Those Amidala lookalikes are the lookalikes for the queens of Naboo.
They are badass and they're kind of creepy. They take
on code names, they undergo training to mimic they are queens,
so people can't detect when one of them stands in
for her, which is helped by all of Naboo's traditional
makeup and clothing for queens. There's one storyline in the
book The Queen's Peril, where Padme's primary stand in and
(41:12):
closest handmaiden, Sabe, takes her place when pain from her
period sidelines Padme. After Padme's death, Sabe is one of
the leaders of a group dedicated to getting justice for
Padme and finding her killer. Also, both Kiera Knightley and
Rose Byrne played handmaidens in the movies.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Yes, I looked this up and Kiera Knightley was in
that movie before she was invented. Like Beckham. Oh, that
one of the part bigger movies. Uh uh huh. And
along those lines of friendship among women in the show,
we do see the friendship between Ahsoka tano Anakin's Padawan
and Padme, and we see them defend and protect each other,
which is nice.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
It is nice. It is so.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
We did want to talk a bit about the legacy
and symbolism of Padme, but first we're gonna pasture one
more quick break for work from her sponsor.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
And we're back. Thank you sponsor.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
So Padme's death and legacy are felt throughout the series,
almost representative of the death of the Republic. She died
alongside the republic she fought so hard for, and the
birth of the Empire. Her children would later be so
instrumental in the Empire's destruction, and they were born on
or a few days after Empire Day, which is the
day the Empire was born. Padme does have one of
(42:35):
my favorite lines in the prequel trilogy. This is how
Liberty dies to thunderous applause, and she does become a
symbol of the rebellion and revenge of the Sith. One
of her hairstyles later is adopted as the rebel symbol.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
So we also see Padme's legacy live on in Leya
in the costuming and hair. After the Empire's fall, Layah
researches until she discovers who her mother was and is
able to get her gowns shipped to her from Naboo Nice. However,
all they're later stolen by an officer of the First
Order aka the New Empire. Leah's bid to be the
(43:09):
first Senator of the new Republic, following in Padme's footsteps,
is derilled by her father's identity as Darth Vader is revealed.
Leiah too is strong willed and determined and dedicated to
public service, inspiring people to her cause.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Yeah, and I will say it's almost a running joke.
You can go card every time I mentioned fan fiction.
In a lot of ways, fan fiction did kind of
redeem a lot of the elements of these stories. For Me,
because people would write amazing, amazing works based on Padme
or Padme's influence in Luke and Leya's life. And you know,
(43:43):
when you're watching the original trilogy, I think Luke didn't
even know the name of his mother and he's never
really asking about her because he was told not to ask.
But it was always like the father who was interesting him,
and she was sort of this blank space throughout where
it was like not even a question or even addressed.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
And it does feel.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
Now that you know the whole story, that she's hanging there,
kind of this sad ghost over the whole thing of
like forgotten, and it was her. It's her that they're
emulating and they don't even know it, like Luke and Layah,
and it was her love of this republic that felt
that they're trying to restore. I don't know looks wise,
(44:25):
all the main female characters in these trilogies are petite, white,
dark haired, dark eyed women, and they are meant to
resemble each other. But yeah, it's interesting too that you
see this progression through these characters of trying to be
more feminist and sometimes succeeding and sometimes failing spectacularly. But
if you look at the change of titles from Princess
(44:46):
Leah to Queen Senator Amidala in these prequels too, in
the sequel trilogy.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
To General organa like.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
I think that was one of those things where they
were trying to.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
Move the the move up and you know something I've
succeeded and sometimes didn't.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
H Yeah. We see her legacy in Luke too, who
is compassionate, stubborn, idealistic, kind and sees the good in
others to a fault Annie Cinemon role. Luke proves Amidella's
last words to be corrected. There were still good in Vader.
Leah later goes through something similar with her son Ben. Oh,
that was a weird movie. Luke was always hopeful, and
(45:23):
so was Padme right until her death. That hope lived
on into her children, a new hope. If you will,
I will, Ah. There's one reason her story is so painful.
As an audience. We know what happens to her, but
it's always hopeful.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Yeah, She's always hopeful throughout. And you just know, this
goes so terribly.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
You're breaking my heart.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
You're going down to pass. I can't follow.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
That is a line that's been a Craine for me
because of fan fiction, people have made that into a
good line for me.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
Here's another quote from Johnston.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
That's how I got through writing the depressing tragedy that
is looming at the end of this because I know
that hope Injurers, that good Injurers, and Padme believed it
even right up to the end. Yeah, so I you know,
clearly I'm a big fan and you can't maybe trust
my suggestions. But I will say there is a lot
(46:16):
of like these books I've heard wonderful things about the
comics are good shows, Like if you're interested, there is
material out there that did give her more of a
backstory and something more like just strong and complex and
really flush her out as a character.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
I guess it does exist. But thank you, thank you,
thank you for letting me have this. I feel a
little tear eyed. I'm getting a little emotional.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
You're hugging yourself a lot in that like cute child like,
Oh yeah, I'm seeing that for sure.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Yes, yes, they moved me every time I tell you so.
Thank you for letting me go on this journey, giving
me the space, and yes, we do want to hear
your suggestions. I sw we have a list, We keep
them and we're gonna get to them. You can email
us at stuff Media, mob Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at mob Stuff podcast
or on Instagram at stuff I Never Told You.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
Thanks as always to our superproducer Christina.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
Thank you, Christina, and thanks to you for listening.
Speaker 3 (47:15):
Stuff I Never Told You, the production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
For more podcasts on iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, this is Anny and Samantha.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm welcome to stuff I've never told your production by
Heart Radio, and welcome to a very special classic today
if you're listening to which when it comes out is
May the Fourth Star Wars Day.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
May the Fourth be with you.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Also there's Revenge of the Fifth and or six, depending
on who you ask. But to that end, I wanted
to bring back a classic episode we did on the
Star Wars prequels, which, funnily enough, I think I would
have a lot more to say about.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Them if we did them now.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Of course you would, of course I think I was like,
my viewpoints have changed on something. Yeah, the twenty fifth
anniversary of The Phantom Menace is this month. Since this year,
it's happening now because it's playing in theaters. And if
you listen to my recent Happy Hour wherein I talk
(01:04):
about some of my new Star Wars thoughts, I've talked
about this theory about Padme, who was very key in
the prequels, and it was a theory about why Darth
Vader never since Luke and Lea. I wanted to bring
one key point I forgot to bring up in that
about this I've talked about this before in my episode
my Happy Hour called My fan Fiction is Better Than Yours.
(01:27):
Star Wars has this whole fascinating thing that is very
prevalent in it, which is called wat Sonyan versus Doulian.
This is essentially kind of are we explaining it because
of outside forces or something inside story wise, or like
(01:47):
they couldn't get Mark Hamill, like you know what I mean.
So that being said, I've had some interesting disagreements with
friends about this before. But obviously one of the reasons
Vader didn't since Leya is because they didn't know Leyah
was his kid until they wrote Return of the Jedi, right,
(02:11):
So that's a very like lot Sony and versus Douleian.
And then we're trying to explain it, or even the
creators are trying to explain it much later with this
very cool theory, which they might have done on purpose
or might not have done a lot of times, the
fans are doing this work and no one knows what
we're talking about. So I don't know if that's the
case here, but I just felt like I should bring
that up, is that the Layah wasn't his daughter. That's
(02:35):
not what they were thinking until Return of the Jedi,
So just a note on that. Okay, yes, but anyway,
I hope that you enjoy the holiday, if you celebrate.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
And please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is any
and Samantha, and.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Welcome to stuff on. I told your production of iHeartRadio.
So today I wanted to ask you, Samantha. I'd I'd
be very interested to know the answer to this question.
Has there ever been something that you really loved as
(03:21):
a kid and then people made you feel really embarrassed
or ashamed of loving it, and then as you got older,
maybe you didn't come back to it, but you gave
it like a deeper, a deeper thought.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I don't know. I'm trying to think of things that
I loved as a kid, but I don't know if
I ever felt shame of it necessarily. I mean, we
could go real deep into the fact that trying to
be very away from my culture. So I was very
ashamed to try to do anything that was Asian because
I want to acclimate so badly. I know I loved
Babysitters Club, but I feel like most of my friends did,
(03:54):
so we were cool on that. I love old movies,
but it was something that I could do on my own,
so no one really needed to tell me otherwise. I
always felt like I was trying to fit in and
so was it that I loved it, but I was
trying to make myself love it, right, So I was
one of those kids, So I don't I don't think
I do. I will say I did really love Twilight
(04:16):
in my thirties, I guess maybe twenties, late twenties, which
there was a bit of a shame factor. But even
the people who made fun of me when I would
have them watch it or get them interested to, so
they no longer felt shame. So I know I felt
shame very good. So I no longer felt shame because
I got them into it too, so I they couldn't
say anything right, right, No, I don't really know.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
That's a good example, because I do feel like a
lot of people shamed, especially young girls and women, for
liking Twilight. Right. Yeah, It's strange because I was both
my relationship with my brothers. I had two brothers when older,
and one younger was at times very antagonistic. But it's
complicated because they both made me feel ashamed of the
(05:03):
things I liked, Like I was made fun of for liking.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Star Wars even though they liked Star Wars.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
And I was made fun of for liking Harry Potter
even though they liked Harry Potter. But I will say
on that one not at the same level as I did.
But they did make fun of me for liking Star Wars.
But at the same time I did. I wanted their
I don't know if respect is the right word, but
almost acceptance, I guess. So when I would go yeah,
when I would go to school, I was kind of
(05:32):
immune to like if people made fun of me for
liking Star Wars, that didn't hurt, but my brothers did,
if that makes sense, because I loved it and I
was like, I know it's I know, I love.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
It and whatever.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
But then in this context of like my brothers making
fun of me, that was kind of Oh.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
But this is.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Especially pertinent to the conversation having today, which is about
the Star Wars prequel see yep, yep. And I'll get
more into that in a second. But I did want
to give a quick shout out to Jamie. Hello, Jamie,
Hello for sending is amazing care Kitka.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yes, yes, we really do appreciate.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Some of the poetics.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Those with Sabbie things were the bomb, yes, yeah, and
also to Don who made these amazing what I'd never heard.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Of it called yarn bombs. Yeah yeah yeah, which are
these just like really big?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I voted and there's a peach one that for voting
in Georgia obviously, and they're just so impressive. And I
really am impressed with the things that you listeners can do.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Such talent since Clochet did not work out so well,
so such talent, yes, I guess netting more so than Crochet,
but yes.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Either case. So I also want to put in here
before we get into this.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
We do a lot of you listeners have sent in
suggestions for feminist movie Friday, and thank you so much
for sending those, and also the book suggestions, because it
does help us.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Decide because there's a lot of.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Books and movies out there and we want to do
things that you like, and those are on the list.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
I swear we're gonna get so I am sorry.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I guess that today we are starting off a three
part Feminist Maybe Friday series on the Star Wars trilogies,
starting with the prequels and building up to May the
Fourth Be with You slash Star Wars Day and Revenge
of the Fifth.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Can't forget Revenge of the Fifth.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I don't know that the timing will work out because
I think we might have miscalculated. I think we did
because originally we were going to end on the original
trilogy because it's my favorite. But now if we want
that one to be may the fourth be with you
that that will be the next one.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
We'll just have to decide.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Oh okay, okay, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, work it out.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Well. I have faith in us. I think we can
work this out.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
So these are going to be a bit different in
that we're focusing more on the woman at the center
of each trilogy and some overarching themes as opposed to
one movie.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
And this was Samantha's idea. I swear. I don't know
one will believe me.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
It's true. It's true. We have been talking, and since
I have been taken over, the last few movies have
been my suggestions. I did make you watch The Mummy
Returns because it brought me joy.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
I thought that was a break.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
I made you watch a musical, even though those can
make you uncomfortable, you know. Yeah, all of these things
were like my choices, and I was like you know what,
we need to go back into the fandom that we
know you love. And right now I cannot escape. You
cannot escape. No one if you are a part of
our world, really can't escape. So it kind of let's
(08:34):
just dig in. Let's just get all the way in,
and I.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Will say, as there is some some light at the
end of this pandemic tunnel. And I have been reflecting
on on this year in my apartment. I Star Wars
has really got me through in a lot of ways,
like and You're not the only one. It has been
(08:57):
my comfort, like the thing that I watched, the like reading.
I've watched all the shows which I had before, and
I don't know that I ever would have. And I
feel like much more qualified to talk about this now.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
I feel like, Okay, I got this. I've been reading
the comics like it's really been.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
When I look back at Quarantine, I think one of
the like memories I'm going to have is just Star
Wars being a constant, like stressed reliever.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
I think you're gonna like it's gonna be one of
those things when you watch it after the quarantine is
lifted and we're all kind of figuring out the New normal. Right,
every time you're watching it, you're going to have that
sentimental feeling of that comfort from this time.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, I think so. I was wondering what that's going
to be like to watch these outside of this. But
because in case I haven't mentioned it before, I have
watched you original trilogy at least every Sunday since last
March thirteenth, So that's a lot. But I do other
stuff while they're on, but they're like my thing that
I put on comforting.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
You say that you kne their stuff, but there's definitely
those moments where you cannot be touched or talked to
because you're just like the audible gaps that happened to you.
Even though I know this is your one million, two
hundred thousand, sixty eight whatever time, Yeah, that you've watched it,
you still get so caught up.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah, there's like six scenes that I cannot be disturbed
and they still have an emotional impact, which I find
really really interesting. But yeah, I did want to say
it was really funny to me when you were like, oh,
these will be really easy for you to want to
research it, and I was mentally like, oh, I got
to read these books and I gotta do this.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
I gotta do this trying not to.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, you make the mistake of telling me what you're
thinking about writing. I'm like, no, you can't do that.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, yeah, So I had to stop myself on this one,
so that's a bit shorter.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I was very impressed.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, yeah, Well, I wanted to read those three books,
the trilogy about Padme, who we're going to be talking
about today, but alas the time ran out.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
So others ours.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Women are definitely going to be featuring in our segment
subsegment fictional women around the world, So never fear or
have fear.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I think it will help for people who, you know,
if you want to know more about Ahsoka Tano but
don't necessarily want to watch all the shows and everything.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
I think they'll be good primers.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
I've always come to you for those.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Thank you, and I know.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
You did like a very massive two partner on Princess
Leah already.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
But we're going to mix it up, so.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Let's go ahead and jump in. Yes, today we're talking
about the much maligned Star Wars prequel trilogy, and I
understand it. I'm like, what is happening? Why is this happening.
I think I said that a lot. The Penttomenace, Attack
of the Clones, and Revenge of the Sith and their
main female character, pat mat Naberi Queen Amidala played by
Natalie Portman. She was like sixteen seventeen. We were looking
(11:51):
this up the other day.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yeah, this was like her first start, like big role
because she done other stuff, but.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Well, like she was pretty big beforehand with The Hitman
or The Profession, The Professional, which is one of my
favorite movies. So Bona's discussion of related comics, televan shows,
and video games. Not surprisingly, Yes, I also want.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
To say that it's become a running joke with Samantha
that she agrees with one of the worst lines in
all the movies.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
I don't like sex, not wrong, Sandy is not great.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
But it gets everywhere. He is so right, and I
will hold to that, all right.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
So here's the part of these three movies in a nutshell.
So we follow Anakin Skywalker's journey from young child to
trouble Jedi groomed by super creeper Senator Palpatine Slash the Emperor,
to Darth Vader. And I had this poster in my
wall when I was a kid and it was the
young actor who plays Anakin Skywalker and he's like nine.
(12:48):
This shadow was Darth Vader, and I thought it was
the coolest thing. So yes, Darth Vader being Luke and
Lea's father. In the original trilogy, we see the destruction
of the brotherhood between Anakin and his master and friend
Obi Wan Kenobi, the intense love he has for Queen
and later Senator Padme Amidala that in part leaves him
(13:11):
to fall to darkness and to evil. We see Padme's
death and Luke and Lea's separation so that they can
be hidden from the Emperor and Vader.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
There are tax.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Disputes and lava battles and so many lost limbs thoughts
on sand. Yes, very awkward dialogue which George Lucas has
now said was on purpose, which I found very funny.
The very problematic racist tropes, and also a lot of
quite sad deaths and death of children.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, and very weird water scenes for those who, for
whatever reason, weren't plugged into the world of Star Wars
when this came out, much like myself, there was so
much hype. I do remember, people will get really, really
really excited, especially with they were announcing the actors who
would be portraying whomever, and these movies were coming out
sixteen years after the last movie of the original trilogy
(13:59):
really hard to do, which was the Retard of the
Jedi or Episode six, which is very confusing and I
have to ask constantly what what, wait, huh when does
this take place? Lots of timelines, lots of timelines. The
original trilogy had just been re released in nineteen ninety seven, which,
by the way, is happening again, right? No? I thought, no, no,
(14:21):
not that they were re releasing it soon. Ye I'm wrong.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Well, there was an odd thing that I never got
to the bottom of last Christmas where they were trailers
on YouTube videos that were acting as if the most
recent movie, Rise of Skywalker, was coming out in theaters again.
It was very confused because it came out a year before.
I don't know about the original trilogy. I know Empire
strikes Back as one of the top grossing movies of
twenty twenty because they were showing it old movies and
(14:47):
drive ins and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
I do.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
I saw this when I was a kid at Delanaga
had a really small movie theater called the Holly, and
I went to go see the re releases at the
Holly and it definitely violated coaches. People were just standing
in there. It was packed and it was the coolest thing.
But those are the versions. This also commusis Samantha so
much and I'm like, well, that's a Disney plus version,
and that's this. These are the ones that most people
(15:11):
probably own. The nineteen ninety seven releases. That's when George
Lucas put in kind of this bad cgi in these
older movies.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
That was foretelling of what was to happen in the
pantom Mint.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yes, and I did watch all of those guys. I
watched all of them, so fans were pumped to see
how hero anakas Skyle Walker became a Darth Vader. And
then they weren't good. Apparently I didn't enjoy them myself,
but I just assumed it was because I don't love
Star Wars like everyone else does, and maybe I'm just
a little more skeptical. I don't know. There were parts
(15:44):
of them that were good, and there really was no
way they could have lived up to the hype. But
apparently they just were very good.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
I mean, that was the consensus Yeah, people were let down.
You know.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
The hype was very very chance and I will say
I was eleven, I think when the first installment, The
Phantom Menace came out in nineteen ninety nine, and I
loved it.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
I loved it. I saw it several times in theaters.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
I had the toys, including one of my favorite toys
of all time to this day, which was this droid
and you had a lightsaber with this tracking mechanism and
it would shoot out these disk at you and you
had to hit them with your lightsaber.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
The coolest, it was the coolest.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I also spent twenty dollars trying to get an Anakin
Skywalker toy from a claw machine and I'm sure I
could have just bought the toy like six dollars.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yeah. I had the cards.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
I had all of the cards, the books, the shirts,
the posters.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Oh, my friends and I was thinking about this other day.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
We were in high school when Revenge of the Sith
came out, which was the last one, and we all
had shirts made and went our matching Revenge of the
Sifth shirts.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
To go see it. And I am still friends with
every one of those people to this day. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Oh, and then I won this really really cool backpack
that I gave away. I'm so mad I gave it away,
but it did become very, very uncool almost immediately. But
I was shielded by my child innocence to like the prequels,
so I gave all of this stuff away and now
I'm sad about it.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
The soundtrack was the first CD I ever bought. And
you know, despite being.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Much maligned, people complaining and their reviews not being great,
these movies did make a lot of money and they
were kids movies, and I think that they succeeded in
that way, not that they were necessarily good, but I
firsually think there's a whole generation of kids out there
that grew up with the prequels and didn't have that
level of expectation or nostalgia for the original trilogy, and
(17:42):
they might even prefer the prequels. And we've talked about
how toxic fandom can be and Star Wars largely dude
fans of Star Wars can be really, really intense and
some of the worst in my opinion, when it comes
to this. So the backlash was quite furious and vitriol,
and I think we sometimes forget that as beloved as
(18:03):
they are. The original trilogy are kids movies too, so
it's like kids who grew up with the original trilogy
and loved it became adults went in to see these prequels,
and I theorized forgot there for kids, right, like, ideally
adults would like them too.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
But and yeah, they weren't good in a lot of.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Ways, but people were pissed pissed, and yeah, I got
made fun of a lot for liking them. Recently, the
prequels have been getting some love or at least not
outright hate as time has.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Passed, right, So, yeah, a lot of things are coming
back up with the fact that Obi Wan Kenobi's about
to get his own little show, right, and then we're
gonna see Anakin Skywalker again coming through, So apparently they're
getting some kind of love. Yeah, who knows. So pad Me,
let's talk about pad Main and a Berry, who is
(18:56):
not only in the movies but apparently in the comics,
which you've been telling me a lot about. Also the
animated series The Clone Wars you also told me about that,
and books like the recent Queen's Hope by E. K. Johnston.
Her name Padme means lotus flower, while Amidala might mean
beautiful flower and the bari means mother of twins, little
(19:18):
en the rose there.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
And I didn't include this for you specifically, Samantha, because
you recently. You didn't make fun of me, but you
kind of teased me about this fan fiction. I was
reading about Luke owning a flower shop, and you're like,
it doesn't make sense, and.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
I was like, well, what it doesn't add to make sense.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
It's fan fiction, but flowers were a key part of
his well.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
I was just saying, wouldn't he be an actual teacher
of sorts? How he did?
Speaker 3 (19:43):
He was both.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, So it just didn't seem possible to me.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
I think you're just trying to pick on mean while yet.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
So.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Padme is a human woman from the planet Naboo, where
she ruled as the Democrat elected queen when she was fourteen.
She served as a member of the Galactic Senate during
the last year of the Republic. One of her most
defining traits is her political idealism and dedication to democracy.
Padmey knew early on that she was interested in helping
(20:16):
people through politics. At the age of seven, she participated
in a failed relief effort that only strengthened her determination
to help people through public service when we are first
introduced her in Phantom Menace, so she does appear earlier
than this, confusingly in the extended universe. Star Wars is
very very messy in that way. But the first time
most people were equainted with her in Phantom Menace. She
(20:38):
is fourteen, and she spends much of the film undercover
in quotes as a handmaiden to the Queen Amidala. And
Amidala is Padmey's name is Queen Queens of Naboo have
a detail of trained lookalikes that serve as protectors, among
other things, and that's the movie I want to see.
But so she's one of these lookalikes, is pretending to
(21:02):
be Queen Amidala while the actual Queen Amidala padme is
pretending to be a handmaiden.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Makes perfect sense, got it?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
And she accompanies the Jedi Qui gon Jen and Obi
Wan Kenobi and meets her future secret husband, Anakin Skywalker,
who is a nine year old enslaved child on the
planet of Tatooine. At the time, Padme is confident with
the blaster and in her leadership, and she was a
much beloved political figure on her planet and an inspiration
(21:32):
for many. After serving two terms as Queen, the people
tried to amend the constitution so she could serve again,
but she declined. However, thanks to her manipulative colleague, she Palpatine,
the Emperor, the future Emperor, and her desperation to save
for people, she initiated the vote of no confidence that
(21:52):
made the way for Palpatine to rise to the role
of Supreme Chancellor. As a senator, was a pivotal figure
in the separatist crisis, proving herself to be a skilled
negotiator and speaker, quick on her feet, and competent in
combat situations. She aligned herself with senators Orghana and mon Mathma,
who influenced her politics and would later go on to
(22:15):
be leaders of the Rebel Alliance, and Belle would go
on to raise her daughter Leah.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
So again, like, imagine as.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
You were seeing these, if you knew the original childre well,
you were seeing like, oh, it's that person, it's that person.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
So I can totally understand. People are listening like, well,
what are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
But Mam Mathma and beil r Ghana are kind of
these big figureheads of the rebellion, and even if it's
not happening at that time, you know kind of what
they're going to become. Padme had her her fair share
of enemies, and an assassination attempt forces her to go
into hiding with none other than Jedi Anakin Skywalker, who
at this point he's nineteen and she's twenty four, so
(22:54):
we're a little older. They fall in love, but the
Jedi code forbids possession and detachment.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Oh, don't get me started on the Jedi code.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
After a coliseum battle and which Padme resourcefully picks a lot,
but then has one of the silliest tearing of costumes
that results in like this perfect crop top that I've
ever seen. She and Anakin secretly marry, a marriage that
later has galactic repercussions. Because of her involvement in politics
from a young age, she doesn't get to live outside
(23:26):
of that structure that much, and she longs for freedom,
something of our own. You do see that in the
comics and the books, and that's one of the reasons
for the secret marriage, is she wanted something of her own.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Also, she was quite young and.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
In love, yeah, very young. Due to their responsibilities during
the Clone Wars. Then I've been just told that it
is not the movie or the anime series, but a
time period.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
It's what happens, it is all of us.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
So I'm trying to get myself bearings. Anakin and Padme
did not get much time together, as we saw, and
we see the flaws and their relationships, lots of secrets
and the strain again of keeping a secret. I feel
like that's just a cautionary tale for all the movies.
Padme's first priorities are her ideals and democracy. The changes
(24:13):
when she finds out she is pregnant, something that will
make hiding her relationship with Anakin even more difficult. Surprise, surprise, well,
she does wear the really big goaln she does. However,
both are thrilled at the news babies. Soon after the revelation,
Anakin begins having visions of Padme and their child's death,
something he is desperate to prevent. He learns that Palpatine
(24:35):
is a sixth Lord, and he promises that by using
the Dark Side he'll be able to save his wife
and their baby.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Lies.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
He succumbs to the dark Side and ignores Padma's pleas
for him to come back, strengthening her into unconsciousness. At
a secret medical center, weird medical center, she gives birth
to Luke and Leah, surprise twins. She dies of heartbreak,
which I still find hard to believe, or perhaps more
likely Palpatine killed her, proclaiming with her dying breath that
(25:06):
she knows they're still good. In Anakin, who by now
has assumed his identity as Darth Vader, we get to
see that whole big scene, believing his wife and child
to be dead at his hands, which is still I'm
still trying to figure that one out. The Republic she
fought so hard for is destroyed and replaced by the Empire,
with her husband functioning as its enforcer. In the wake
(25:28):
of her death, Patme becomes a symbol of democracy and
later the rebellion itself. Her children went on to play
a major role in dismantling the Empire as we know
and restoring democracy and in the end the redemption of
Anakin Skywalker.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Oh gosh, this is some of those things sometimes when
I and I know I've talked to you about this
before with like the Last of Us, Samantha.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Sometimes when you just write.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Out a plot and you take away all the clunky
dialogue and just get to the bare bones.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
What the story is not the case the Lastibah has
been in this. It's so sad. That's a sad tale.
And we're gonna we're gonna get.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Into some of these these sad elements and feminist elements,
but first we're gonna polish for a quick break for
word from our sponsor, and we're bad. Thank you sponsor,
(26:26):
since it is a big part of this. I didn't
want to ask, do you think you could do a
secret marriage?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Samantha funny story. I have a friend who got married,
never told her parents. It's not necessarily a secret to
anybody else who is close to them, but her parents
still think she's not married, and she's been able to
pull it off. And I'm still baffled by this. Wow, Personally,
I don't know if because I just don't care about
marriage for me personally, so I don't know if I
(26:52):
would care enough to try secret marriage. That just seems
like extract right. And I say this in today's society
where it's okay to be together and just to be
in a partnership, and I enjoy that, so kind of like, well,
why would I go to the trouble of having a
marriage if I'm keeping it a secret, if I don't
care to be married, So why so I don't know,
(27:15):
would you? Uh?
Speaker 3 (27:18):
I mean I similarly, I don't really want to get it.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
But if I was in a situation where I did,
I can see how the strains of it, and especially
not being able to communicate those like strains with other
people are in front of other people, wouldn't make it
very difficult and resentment could build or just like not
because you're not communicating honestly with other people. So I
(27:41):
can see how that would really mess up your communication
in that relationship, and you wouldn't ever quite be sure.
I mean, obviously, if you had a healthy relationship, you
would be secure and like, Okay, this is fine. But
I think the very fact of key being in a
secret feels like it's not fine in some.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Way, right, I think my friend who isn't and this
is a completely different tone. It's not necessarily she's trying
to keep it a secret. It's just she's just not
telling everyone. Sure it doesn't care too in the story.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Right, Yeah, And this is obviously like a intergalactic space
war situation where they're both in they have responsibilities to
a larger and to tree that puts a lot of
pressure on them.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
I mean, I guess this could be a tale of like, yes,
they're in love, but also their young teenagers are being
told they can't be in love, so yeah, a double
like ooh.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Yeah, yeah, that's true. And there's a lot of trauma
behind a lot of their decisions before. We've talked about
in a minute, But I didn't want to put in
here because there's this recent TikTok story, Like a TikTok
user used math to suggest that Padme is the strongest
character in Star Wars based on the scene and attack
of the Clones when Padme jumps from the top of
(28:59):
this really tall hole onto a reek which is kind
of like a big rhino thing.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
And doesn't even flinch.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
The user Shayey, calculated how much force that would put
on the body and then argued from there that it
makes her the strongest character.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
And you and I discussed that in our viewing because.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
I was like, al because we watched this for this
upcoming and I was like, aw, how does that not
hurt a b Also, she is one of the only
ones who can actually hit people with her guns. Yeah,
I'm like, Okay, what is wrong with everybody else? Why
are these laser guns so bad?
Speaker 2 (29:37):
You've heard my theories. But that's a different time. And
she's badass in a lot of ways. She's intelligent, compassionate, curious, determined,
she's capable, she's brave, she's a good leader. She champions
things like the anti slavery campaign. But yes, in a
lot of ways, the movies especially did her wrong. And
one of the big ways, in my opinion, is blaming
(29:59):
when because there's this narrative of her being the cause
of Anakin's fall to the dark side, and some of
that comes from outside interpretations. So a lot of write
ups blame Padme, sometimes not explicitly, but the language is
pretty pretty implicit for the fall of the Republican rise
(30:21):
of the Empire because of her secret marriage to Anakin
that pushed him to fall. But I think it takes
two to tango friends, and she's not responsible for his
actions in the end. They were both young and in
love and they made mistakes, but it is not solely
on her that he became dark.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Right, she was young, and I keep talking about that
as well. When she was elected and I'm still trying
to wrap my mind around that. I mean, she admits
she believed she might not have been ready. We do
you see that? And through her evolution we see her mature,
holding on to her idealism but learning when to compromise,
although she did compromise and things that maybe she shouldn't have. Yeah, still,
she was young when she died, and plenty of older
(31:03):
male folks in the film deserves some of the blame
for what happened. Again, her death just seems silly to
me in this movie. I know it had to happen
for the development of the plot, but like, really, this
is how you're gonna kill her all, okay? And they
were all fooled and manipulated by the Emperor. However, many
paint her as a simple love interest that ruined everything women.
(31:26):
So it's another example of something we see and discuss
a lot in our entertainment, a woman's death jump starting
a male character story, in this case Darth Vaders.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Yeah, even Anakin believe she has betrayed him for Obi
Wan Kenobi, which leaves him to attack her. She begs
him to come back to raise their child together, which
is exactly why he joined the dark Side in the
first place to protect them, but he refuses, arguing instead
they could overthrow the emperor and rule the galaxy together,
(31:55):
ignoring the fact that that's what she dedicated her whole
life to finding out against dictatorship. He's so overcome with
the fear of losing her, of being powerless, that he
loses her and serves a new master as slaved to
the dark Side. That's something else that eroded the trust
between Padme and Anakin, his closeness to Palpatine, especially given
(32:17):
how dedicated she was the Republican preventing that slow creep
of emergency powers and militarism. There are even scenes where
she comes in and he chooses to stand by Palpatine
and not her when they're like arguing. So some people
have said that this kind of complex, convoluted thing is
(32:38):
why these movies aren't as satisfying, because they aren't the
simple good versus bad star wars miss stories we're used to.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Like.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Don't get me wrong, the original CHILDI has a lot
of complex layers to it, but in the end, it's
kind of like, these are the bad guys, these are
the good guys, Like you know the lines and these
are blurrier.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
The characters don't know who exactly they're fighting. We do
as the audience.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Except really frustrating, but they don't the good guys, and
these make cat astraphic mistakes that lead to tragedy and darkness,
which watching these in the air of Trump hit differently.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
I gotta say, yeah, I definitely you've definitely heard like
the Stormtrooper margin a lot.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Yeah, So apparently Annie you told me this and I'm
gonna go ahead and relay it. There was a whole
scrapped plot line that pad May actually was more forced
sensitive than Anakin during her pregnancy with Luke and Leah. Interesting,
our other strapped endings had Padme leaving Anakin to start
(33:41):
the rebellion. Apparently there's the deletedt scene where she joins
up with Belle Organa and man Mathma to create the
Alliance to restore the public. But how'd that go with
the fight that Leyah is supposed to be adopted by.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
I think she was still going to die, but she
had this scene of like, I'm gonna set this up
so she started it, and.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Then okay, or even trying to kill him when she
realizes what he's become which I feel like the big
clue was when he killed that entire population of people
of creatures, including the children and the women, and he
admits it and was okay with it, like he cried,
but he's like it felt good, Yeah, like an avengance
of his mother. I was like that seems like that
(34:20):
has a huge sidney.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
There's many red flags with him.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
And while Padme does get to do her fair share
of ASKI king, she certainly does more ask kicking than
I'm used to seeing from Queens and Sinner, just especially
as a kid when.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
I was watching these.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
She does end up meeting quite a bit of rescuing too,
and or you see her in a fair amount of distress.
So in that crop top incident in the second movie,
which I want to include the description from star wars
WICKI fantom of that quote. This tore the waistband and
up her clothing, and Amidala screamed and sobbed in pain
as tears trickled down her cheek. I don't remember the
(34:59):
sop pain crying, but anyway, Anakin is the one that
ultimately comes to her rescue. She falls out of their
transport and falls unconscious. Soon after that, there are plenty
of instances of her being captured or poisoned or what
haves you in the show, though to be fair, she
does find a way out herself fairly regularly.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
There's also a.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Really weird, kind of creepy plot line with an X
of hers and a really jealous Anakin that feels like,
because most of that show does feel, oh, this is
very much for children.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
In that episode, I was.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Like, whoa, this is pretty dark and weird. And she
spends a good portion of the third movie crying and
in emotional distress that ultimately kills her. We're going to
get into some some people have a different interpretation of
that in a minute, but and you know, it was
very devastating. A lot of very bad things were happening,
but still she did spend most of the movie kind
(35:50):
of just crying. So, speaking of heartbreak and her death,
this is probably one of the most calling things about
her storyline, that she dies of heartbreak after giving Bird
to her children. With everything we know about her, it
seems like she would fight like hell to protect them.
And there is a part of me that gets the
(36:11):
romantic in heavy quotes aspect of it that she was
so in love with Anakin, and that knowing what he
did and what he'd become and how he destroyed in
part what she'd work so hard to better and to
preserve that it killed her.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
But it just feels like such a cop out.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
And every time I watch these movies, if you take
away the silliness, yeah, and the awkward dialogue and clunky
extraneous storylines, I'm really taken aback by how sad they are.
But she was strong, like I feel like she would
have she would have fought. But all that being said,
some have pointed out that it's never confirmed in canon.
(36:46):
It's never officially been confirmed that she died of heartbreak,
and in fact, it's heavily implied the Emperor killed her
from a fog with his dog magic powers, because how
did he know she was dead when he told Darth Vader.
That's like one of the big things. The medbot treating
her says she has lost the will to live, which
could be heartbreak or I guess dark force powers that
(37:08):
a robot doesn't know about.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Fair And again, we are focusing on Padme today, but
because we do talk a lot about trauma and grooming
on the show, that plays a huge part in the
Fall of Anakin Skywalker after growing up enslaved, he had
to leave his mother behind enslavement, and when he finally returns,
she dies in his arms and he's terrified of going
through that pain again. With Padme, you've got the Emperor
(37:33):
grooming him and offering him a solution and whisperinging his
ears constantly.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Yeah, Samantha knows, I'll just be like, he's so great
for randomly she does. And here I wanted to include
an email we got a while back from a listener
named cale Hi. Cale Cale wrote about what we're talking
about right here.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Quote.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
This email is mainly for Annie because it's about Star Wars,
but Samantha is for you to read as well. I
was listening to movie Crush and I heard you talk
about how you've been watching the Clone Wars animated series
and your mixed feelings about Anakin since the show humanized
him so much. And I am so happy to hear that.
I did not watch Star Wars as a kid, and
my first real exposure to the series was when my
partner showed me the Clone Wars series. I mostly watched animation.
(38:16):
It got me into Star Wars and after watching the series.
I went back and watched all of the movies and
rebels as well. Watching the Clone Wars really humanized Anakin
in a way that hit me hard. Watching him be
groomed by Palpatine, being forced a hide his relationship with Padme,
and having no one to really go to about his
emotions and nightmares truly made him an island. A person
in such pure isolation is so easily manipulated, and so
(38:37):
watching him fall prey to Palpatine and the prequels was
so difficult for me to see. I have a lot
of deep rooted emotions about the show, Anakin and Anakin's relationships.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
With various characters.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
I would not say that I forgive him of his evils,
but that watching the Clone Wars and how it makes
Anakin relatable gave me insight to him as a person
and truly made me feel so much for him. I
have written a pseudo essay ramble about how I feel
about the Jedi Order, It's shortcomings when it comes to humanity, sentience, emotions, relationships,
and how the rigidity of the Orders ultimately what led
Anakin to choosing the dark side and becoming Vader.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
If you're interested, I would love to share it with you.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
I know that not a lot of people read into
and analyze individual characters and movies and books as much
as you do, and I feel a real kindredness to
you and how you really see each character when talking
about them on Sminty. Yes, I love this so much.
I would love to read your essay. That is right
up my alley and something I would do. I have
thought so in depth about these characters, and yes, definitely
(39:33):
Anakin and darth Vader and the psychology of Darth Vader
is something that I will bring up at any time,
But that is another aspect to this, as well as
the show really exploring that isolation and the grooming and
the kind of tragedy that it led to. On top
(39:56):
of that, Padme's death haunted him for the rest of
his life, haunted Anakin Darth Vace for the rest of
his life, saying her name in front of him very
likely he could get you killed. He never ever emotionally
recovered from it, and that turned into indiscriminate violence and rage.
At one point, he encounters a ghostly massage of Padme,
and when he begs her to come back to him,
she kills herself instead, and that is messed up. At
(40:19):
another point, he attempted to resurrect her with an ancient
artifact and failed. Here's the quote from Johnston, author of
those Padme trilogy books we mentioned earlier.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
I had to include this. Anakin Skywalker is a.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Bit of a downer for me in terms of writing,
because everything he touches ends badly. Quigan dies, his mom dies,
Padme dies, the galaxy falls apart. It does not go
well for people involved in Anakin Skywalker's story when he's.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
The main character. True. A note about the handmaidens.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Those Amidala lookalikes are the lookalikes for the queens of Naboo.
They are badass and they're kind of creepy. They take
on code names, they undergo training to mimic they are queens,
so people can't detect when one of them stands in
for her, which is helped by all of Naboo's traditional
makeup and clothing for queens. There's one storyline in the
book The Queen's Peril, where Padme's primary stand in and
(41:12):
closest handmaiden, Sabe, takes her place when pain from her
period sidelines Padme. After Padme's death, Sabe is one of
the leaders of a group dedicated to getting justice for
Padme and finding her killer. Also, both Kiera Knightley and
Rose Byrne played handmaidens in the movies.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Yes, I looked this up and Kiera Knightley was in
that movie before she was invented. Like Beckham. Oh, that
one of the part bigger movies. Uh uh huh. And
along those lines of friendship among women in the show,
we do see the friendship between Ahsoka tano Anakin's Padawan
and Padme, and we see them defend and protect each other,
which is nice.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
It is nice. It is so.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
We did want to talk a bit about the legacy
and symbolism of Padme, but first we're gonna pasture one
more quick break for work from her sponsor.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
And we're back. Thank you sponsor.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
So Padme's death and legacy are felt throughout the series,
almost representative of the death of the Republic. She died
alongside the republic she fought so hard for, and the
birth of the Empire. Her children would later be so
instrumental in the Empire's destruction, and they were born on
or a few days after Empire Day, which is the
day the Empire was born. Padme does have one of
(42:35):
my favorite lines in the prequel trilogy. This is how
Liberty dies to thunderous applause, and she does become a
symbol of the rebellion and revenge of the Sith. One
of her hairstyles later is adopted as the rebel symbol.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
So we also see Padme's legacy live on in Leya
in the costuming and hair. After the Empire's fall, Layah
researches until she discovers who her mother was and is
able to get her gowns shipped to her from Naboo Nice. However,
all they're later stolen by an officer of the First
Order aka the New Empire. Leah's bid to be the
(43:09):
first Senator of the new Republic, following in Padme's footsteps,
is derilled by her father's identity as Darth Vader is revealed.
Leiah too is strong willed and determined and dedicated to
public service, inspiring people to her cause.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Yeah, and I will say it's almost a running joke.
You can go card every time I mentioned fan fiction.
In a lot of ways, fan fiction did kind of
redeem a lot of the elements of these stories. For Me,
because people would write amazing, amazing works based on Padme
or Padme's influence in Luke and Leya's life. And you know,
(43:43):
when you're watching the original trilogy, I think Luke didn't
even know the name of his mother and he's never
really asking about her because he was told not to ask.
But it was always like the father who was interesting him,
and she was sort of this blank space throughout where
it was like not even a question or even addressed.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
And it does feel.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
Now that you know the whole story, that she's hanging there,
kind of this sad ghost over the whole thing of
like forgotten, and it was her. It's her that they're
emulating and they don't even know it, like Luke and Layah,
and it was her love of this republic that felt
that they're trying to restore. I don't know looks wise,
(44:25):
all the main female characters in these trilogies are petite, white,
dark haired, dark eyed women, and they are meant to
resemble each other. But yeah, it's interesting too that you
see this progression through these characters of trying to be
more feminist and sometimes succeeding and sometimes failing spectacularly. But
if you look at the change of titles from Princess
(44:46):
Leah to Queen Senator Amidala in these prequels too, in
the sequel trilogy.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
To General organa like.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
I think that was one of those things where they
were trying to.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
Move the the move up and you know something I've
succeeded and sometimes didn't.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
H Yeah. We see her legacy in Luke too, who
is compassionate, stubborn, idealistic, kind and sees the good in
others to a fault Annie Cinemon role. Luke proves Amidella's
last words to be corrected. There were still good in Vader.
Leah later goes through something similar with her son Ben. Oh,
that was a weird movie. Luke was always hopeful, and
(45:23):
so was Padme right until her death. That hope lived
on into her children, a new hope. If you will,
I will, Ah. There's one reason her story is so painful.
As an audience. We know what happens to her, but
it's always hopeful.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Yeah, She's always hopeful throughout. And you just know, this
goes so terribly.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
You're breaking my heart.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
You're going down to pass. I can't follow.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
That is a line that's been a Craine for me
because of fan fiction, people have made that into a
good line for me.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
Here's another quote from Johnston.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
That's how I got through writing the depressing tragedy that
is looming at the end of this because I know
that hope Injurers, that good Injurers, and Padme believed it
even right up to the end. Yeah, so I you know,
clearly I'm a big fan and you can't maybe trust
my suggestions. But I will say there is a lot
(46:16):
of like these books I've heard wonderful things about the
comics are good shows, Like if you're interested, there is
material out there that did give her more of a
backstory and something more like just strong and complex and
really flush her out as a character.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
I guess it does exist. But thank you, thank you,
thank you for letting me have this. I feel a
little tear eyed. I'm getting a little emotional.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
You're hugging yourself a lot in that like cute child like,
Oh yeah, I'm seeing that for sure.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Yes, yes, they moved me every time I tell you so.
Thank you for letting me go on this journey, giving
me the space, and yes, we do want to hear
your suggestions. I sw we have a list, We keep
them and we're gonna get to them. You can email
us at stuff Media, mob Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at mob Stuff podcast
or on Instagram at stuff I Never Told You.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
Thanks as always to our superproducer Christina.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
Thank you, Christina, and thanks to you for listening.
Speaker 3 (47:15):
Stuff I Never Told You, the production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
For more podcasts on iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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