SMNTY Classics: Where Be (Female) Monsters?

Welcome to your worst (podcast) nightmare. In this classic episode, Anney and Samantha delve into the storied history of female monsters, and talk about how we can bridge the monster gender gap.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff
I've never told. You're a protection of my Heart radio.
I don't know why I said it in a weird accent.
That's that's strange. Is it Halloween? So you're jumping into accents,
And that's why I was the I was thinking of

(00:26):
kind of the older horror movies, you know, because the
classic we're bringing back today is about the monster gender gap,
as we say, And when I think about all of
those older classic you know, like Black Lagood and Wear
Wealth and something, it's all men like usually terrorizing women.

(00:52):
And apparently that was about the accent. That's where I
came from. Got you, I got you? I guess that.
Being said, we have been recently looking into a lot
of women in urban legends. We've done a lot of
stuff in this vein before, like Women's zero Killers or whatever.

(01:13):
And you you picked one, uh, in our one of
our Urban Legends episodes which might not have come out yet,
but you picked. You were like this, if I could
be a monster, this is the one. I think. So yeah,
But I'm curious is they're like, is there a particular
legend about a female monster or demon or story that

(01:36):
really really resonates with you, that you really like. I
don't know if i'd say resigniques because I think, as
we've talked about before, many of the hor movies have
something to do with children, uh and being a mother,
and that has never been a thing for me. Or
being really uh main murdered because they've cheated. That's been
a few things that have happened. I guess maybe like

(01:57):
things like Jennifer's body. Again, I don't see myself as
the main character or being the pretty one, so I
don't imagine that being my thing either. So this is
really sad that you can't be a monster. Apparently I
can't be a monster because I don't have any of
those days, although I do love which one is? It
kind of what we were talking about with what we

(02:19):
do in the Shadows, you know, feeling bad for the
girl who's not uh the prettiest indoor being ignored and
being turned into a monster, and I was like, that
could be me. Maybe maybe that would be me? Uh
maybe I wope, you know, become that jaded person or
being a sad person that someone feels bad for so
you make them immortal us type of things, so that

(02:39):
they can also have powers to be able to have
vengeance and do love those type of stories. So maybe
I'm more of a revenge film person that goes after things.
So I'm not necessarily a monster, but I'm definitely not cool.
Still human, but not quite a monster like that that
feels like a business scarred not a monster, but I'm

(03:02):
definitely not cool. What about you? I mean, I'm in
kind of a similar predicament in terms of like a
lot of what we talked about in this episode and
in the Urban Legends episode does have to do with
children and motherhood. And the reason I wanted to bring
this one back is because two things that kept coming

(03:22):
up when we were researching this for me that we
didn't discuss were the furies from Greek mythology and Lilith,
and those are two I guess the furies are three people.
So those four things that I always was really interested
in the furies because they have like this terrible, like

(03:43):
very fearsome. People were terrified of them, and and depending
on what source you're reading, they were getting like justice
or they were cruel and just killing people. And then
with someone like Lilith, there's just to me, really interesting
story behind how she got to where she got and

(04:04):
why she was demonized and sort of made into what
she was. So maybe, you know, resonate isn't the right word,
but I do. They just fascinate me, and a lot
of the monsters we talked about in this episode fascinated me. Actually,
maybe I should go back and say Medusa because I

(04:25):
feel like I could be that kind of bitter Betty,
like that resonates with me. Bitter Betty watch out, don't
say her name three times back and complains a lot.
I love that. The most boring monster that we've got

(04:47):
here we go. I think that could really get behind somebody, like,
really get stuck in their crawl. Oh she's still complaining.
Oh god, she's still talking and whining. My bad. Well,
we hope that you enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this

(05:14):
is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff. I've never
told your production of I hear Radio's house stufforts. I
know that there's theme music, but in my head, I
have my own. After we finished, because we sit in silence,

(05:34):
so like, do do do do? Do? Do? Do do do?
That's how I hear in my head. Okay, maybe we
could make that a reality. Well, I like what we've got,
which is nothing like what I just said. You came
up with your own thing. I didn't sit here kind
of awkwardly, but it's for production purpose, right, for transition. Yes. Uh.
And we were having a rousing conversation right about whether

(05:57):
or not unicorns are my monsters and are they all female? Right?
And I guess according to the Cabin in the Woods,
it is a monster. Yeah, because today we're talking about
female monsters. Um, unicorns did not make the list, but
maybe they should have. But I don't know his female. Yeah,
that's true, that's the that's the question. I did not

(06:19):
include mermaids, um, which come up a lot, but we
do talk about a lot of their kind of Um yeah,
we're so we're gonna do kind of a pop culture
overlook and then a historical overlook. That got kind of
out of hand, just just saying this is a lot
of pages, and I'm like, oh, we are in Annie's

(06:42):
fun house now. Yes, I wish I could do Halloween
themed episodes. The excitement that I see with the words
and your face as we're talking about these things, I'm like, wow, oh, yes,
I'm in for a treat. You are both a trick
and a treat. Um. Why back, We did an episode
on the trope in our pop culture of women falling

(07:03):
in love with monsters, and we mentioned in that episode
that there is a monster gender cap far more male
monsters than female monsters, and on top of that, there
is a monster beauty gap. Female monsters are generally portrayed
into sexualized manner, whereas male monsters are not. Male monsters
are also frequently allowed some sympathy whereas female ones are not. Yeah. Uh,

(07:28):
And we wanted to revisit this topic in the topic
of female monsters and just f y I as in
the episode we did around male monsters were mainly talking
about fictional monsters, not like our real world human monsters. Um,
we are going to tough touch briefly on um, some
fictional serial killers, but not not generally. And I know

(07:52):
that I've done my my horror movies should beel on
the show before, but I think horror movies are really
indicative of our anxieties and fears as a society. And
we are apparently hell afraid of women and their bodies
and yeah, all the fluids of their bodies. No, absolutely true,

(08:14):
absolutely true. Um, And this does come into like an
interesting conversation of what a monster is, and we'll get
we'll touch on that a little bit more because some
of them we included, even though maybe we have some doubts.
There's a gray area. There are several gray areas. There's many,
there's fifty shades of gray. Which is not a horror movie.

(08:37):
I've been told I haven't seen it anither I haven't
seen them though, no trigger warning before we get into
it for brief mentions of sexual assault and violence, and yes,
more specifically talking about more non human superhuman monsters today.
But okay, I wanted to ask you, Samantha here, what's

(08:58):
the first female monster that comes to your head? So
for me, all the female monsters are the ghostly, motherly,
demonic kind um and when or wrong goes, So if
I think of the mother on Juan or the I guess,
I guess the regular the grudge, but we just recently
watched that one which I love, or the devil worshiping

(09:19):
Mother from Conjuring because I love those movies, or even
in the later segments of Insidious, there is a mother
figure that started at all that haunts them kind of thing?
Are these spoilers who do not have said spoilers. Spoilers,
I don't think those are spoilers because they're just kind
of like in the trailer, right, or even if you
like I guess if you want to think about again

(09:40):
with the mother figure in The Red Dragon, Joseph finds,
I know this is a serial color and all that,
but it began with his mother and created this fictional
serial killed monster. And that's kind of what I think
of as women and monsters. It's all these awful mothers
or stepmothers, mothers, yeah, that either come back for revenge
or because they hated their children, or they're part of
a witchcraft or something, right. Yeah, And that's something we've

(10:03):
definitely talked about before, is our pop culture anxiety around
motherhood really apparently um And I feel like most female
monsters I think of are like film fatals are seductresses.
Um or Yeah, closely. Women with long black hair just

(10:24):
one of my favorite things. So when I had long
black hair, I used to try to scare the hell
out of people just by making that weird grudge noise
and with the hair in my face, it worked. One
of my favorite costumes I ever saw a dragon con
with someone dressed as Samara from the Ring looked just
like her and was carrying around a videotape and like
slowly trying to hand it to people. It was so creepy.

(10:48):
One of my favorite Halloween costumes was dressing as the Grudge,
having like a stained white gown essentially or you know,
hospital gown with my hair all in my face and
all white, and just standing with the one eye following
people creepily. They were really creeped up. A lot of
friends and a lot of short day. I'm sure you
didn't lose any definitely not UM. I also think of

(11:08):
possessed young girls. I think that's a pretty big trope
in our horror. Kristen and Caroline have a whole episode
on Succupy kind of going off that that's a detorous
finmvital thing if you want to check that out, And
they've done a few on witches, uh, if you want
to check those out as well. So some famous recent
examples recent ish of UM female monsters The Queen Alien

(11:31):
from Aliens, which by now you've either heard are very
indefinite lookn alien or if you haven't, you should check
it out. UM. The Queen Alien from the Faculty, which
is a movie that I loved in high school and
I think for like a month every day I would
go home and watch it with some KFC. What a

(11:53):
weird weird child. Wow with KFC, that's very specific. I know.
I went through a big KFC like just a chicken
because the sides I think we can agree or well,
the chicken finger looking good. Yes, it is the leventer
and spices, just those secret and spices. Oh yeah, we'll
never know. It can't be like salt and pepper or whatever.

(12:14):
It's got to be something more. Um another alien, the
alien from under the skin who killed men for their
organs by seducing them. The Raptors from Jurassic Park. Um,
at least the first one. They're all they're all female.
Missed that part. Yeah, that's the whole thing, is like
they can't reproduce because they're all female. But then they

(12:38):
frog DNA and then talk about spoilers that movie in years. Um,
I suppose I saw Godzilla from the version of Godzilla
on some list which I bring up every chance I get.
That's why it's here on this list. Um. Jaws, let's bruce, yes,
but the Jaws in the book at because I think

(13:02):
that her her child is in the second one looking
for revenge, or maybe the other way around. It's a
revenge tale, is it? For sure? The mom wants revenge
or the child wants revenge. I just as soon suppose
the mayor was stupid every time, and so he deserves
his talent getting eat up? Do you know what I'm
talking about? What character? I absolutely know what you're talking about.

(13:24):
I watched that movie every fourth of July because it
takes place on fourth of Yeah, and then the demon
from Jennifer's Body, which, by the way, she was possessed
because she was not a virgin. I did not have
you seen this movie? But oh, yeah, you and I
talked about this. Okay. I try to make my friend
watch it too, and he's like, this is dumb. What
is this? I'm like, it was Diablo Cody. That's one
of her first movies, and it's kind of like mock

(13:45):
two women in in in in the horror like genre.
But yeah, she was supposed to be maybe spoiler alert
if you're really excited about watching Jennifer's Body, which is
fairly old. Um, but she goes with this band. The
band thinks he's a virgin, and they do this whole
ceremon only on her instead of going correctly, she be
gets possessed or she becomes a demon and right and

(14:06):
then no, of course not well, they like she's so hot,
she's me and she's so hot that automatically you get
an excuse. Except for her best friend, who's Amanda Fred
who was beautiful, but she plays the dowdy girl. I'm like,
come on, y'all, that always bothers me. She's the shy,
quieter friend of Megan Foxes. Was her hair and a pony? Yes, yes, yes,

(14:33):
which I'm sure again Diablo Cody did that a definitely. Um,
I love those movies like that, Um the Werewolf from
Ginger Snaps, which also plays on a lot of our
fears straight up about, straight up about periods. I love it.
I'm telling you it all boils so male writers being
afraid of periods. They should be they should respect them, respected.

(14:58):
And Um Samara from The Ring are Sadko from the original,
And Um, I would love to come back and do
a whole thing on that kind of genre of Japanese
horror because a lot of it has to do with
um anxiety around Hairoshima and the nuclear fallout, and a

(15:20):
fear of like what will my children like maybe something
has gone wrong with this radiation. Um. I would love
to come back about legitimate fear. I think that's kind
of how Chernobyl the whole horror story is always kind
of revolve around that as well. And then the vampire
from Let the Right One in or a girl walks
home alone at night, fun gray area when it comes

(15:40):
to monsters, which I did love both of those movies.
They were fantastic in the original The fact that these
movies came out in this kind of level and it's
just so like slow, yeah, but you kind of love it.
But then you know, there's draculas brides, yeah, which are
usually portrayed pretty sexily, right, and it's kind of into
those little gray areas. Is that the monster or that
you know what I write Camilla the lesbian vampire who

(16:03):
wanted to turn all the women she could into vampires?
Do it? Just do it? Sorrey the vampire from Octavia
Butler's fledged Length, which I haven't seen that one. It's
a book. Oh, I think it's might be in Talk
to Me a movie. Okay, okay, okay, so that's probably why.
And then the main monster from Dusk Till Dawn, which

(16:25):
is Selmahiak. She barely speaks in it until she's about
to kill people, but she does her seductive dance and
she turns up to be one of the main vampires.
You know, spoiler alert, but like that, Actually you do
not know this? Have you seen from Dustin? You've not
seen If I hain't seen it and I didn't know
she was a vampire, what would that say? I just
never don't you would it becomes obvious And I'm sorry

(16:48):
I spoiled that for you. I really thought you. It's
a fairly old movie. Yeah. The statute of limitations I
believe is tenures and it's fairly old. Um. I know
there's a lot of like Quentin Tarantino. However, yeah, it
is of fun, over the top. It does also involve
like a serial killer. It's a weird it's hard to
dis Yeah, it's a weird movie. I know, must of
you have watched it because you also feel a little

(17:10):
you feel this little sympathy for the serial killer, like
Psychotic Brother. It's a whole level. It's a whole level.
So also Juliette Lewis is a teenage girl character. It's
just some creepy factors up in here. Definitely a good,
like an interesting movie to watch. But yeah, the the
main vampire is Salma Hiak, who is a beautiful dancer

(17:33):
that turns into an all eating monster and all eating
monster sees everything. Huh, well that me vampire. You know,
I saw this movie recently and I couldn't, for the
life of me remember what it's called. So this is
very unhelpful. But it was like, I think, um spring,

(17:58):
but it was about it sets itself up, so you
think it's one of those American tourists is going to
get tortured by locals and die kind of thing because
he's like in an Italy um and he meets the
hot girl and you know it's a horror movie, so
you're like, okay, But then it turns out she actually
does love him. But at night she turns into some

(18:21):
kind of like Cthulu type but on a small level,
and she has to feed and she's trying to protect him.
And also like every so many years she will become
that monster permanently. And instead of I mean, I guess spoilers,
they stayed together and it ends with them, like waiting

(18:42):
for the sunrise on her last day and to see
what happens. Um, he's gonna get eaten probably, Um. But
I do like I like movies like the ones we've
been talking about with the vampires and um, the ones
that make you think about the question of what is
it to be a monster because a lot of times
they're killing human monsters or just people who compared to

(19:05):
the vampire UM aren't great. Right, Yeah, Okay, there are
a lot of witches we could talk about. This is
something that I was kind of like monsters. I don't
know if they count, but I didn't want to include
some of them. Um. We do have the witches from
The Craft, which I only watched recently because of this show. Really,

(19:25):
I feel like you've missed really iconic like female bonding movies.
Apparently I did. I will make a list. I'm ready
to go. Um, the the s the witch from the
Conjuring that you mentioned, Um, and I guess Annabelle would count,
even though annabel was more of a demon possession situation.
Old spirit for sure. Yeah, and I thought it might

(19:47):
be male. I don't think so so. In the origin huh. Yeah,
look name a Wan, James Wan, John Wayne Those, John
James Wong. He I think he's done some really good things.
And I know they're all kind of follow the same
little idea, but like he did, I don't know if

(20:09):
it was him that did the Annabel one, but it
goes to the origin story of Annabel. Yes, yes, and
they go into it's like they live in a nineteen
forties fifty sixties Lombow stretch and the it's an orphanage.
It's like a small homemade orphanage with a few nuns
here there of course. Um, and it begins with the

(20:32):
death of this couple's baby. And so whether or not
and I can't quite remember if it was adopted or
like what it was always a spirit or always been
possessed whatever whatnot, and then it comes on to possess
and become Annabel or whatever whatnot. So yes, I think,
I don't know if maybe it's also gender neutral, who

(20:52):
knows neces a gender, but yes, it possesses a young girl.
Though maybe that's a spoiler alert. I haven't seen that.
I saw that movie on a plane, but I think
it landed right at the like end, you know, And
I just never saw of course, because we talked about
this again as children, but this time it's all young girls. Um.

(21:15):
And as of course again orphans always orphans if that's
the thing, either here or any orphan or your demon orphan. Um.
But yeah, they definitely set it up as a regular
trope type of here it is. Yeah. Um hm, so
I don't think not a witch but a demon demon,
gender neutral demon that goes into a girl. Will say

(21:36):
it that way? How interesting hard phrase these things without
sounding very strange? Um? So I was thinking about the

(21:56):
witches from the Witch, which I don't that one is
I think within the realm of I don't want to
spoil it, but um, they do some monstrous things. I
don't know. I don't know where I land on that one.
I don't There's a lot of illusion, like it's kind
of towards things, but it's a slow burn it's a
slow burn movie. Yes, So to me, it's kind of

(22:17):
like the along the lines of buppa Duke and that slow, slow, slow,
unfolding slash how deep do you let it go into
your mind? Yeah type of thing, And a lot of
it does feel like um metaphor right, So I mean,
I guess the truly monstrous thing in that movie is
that she's coming into her sexuality, right, um or that's

(22:39):
like not only that she's also sexualized by the brother. Yes. Yeah,
And then there's also this confusion, the back and forth
with a mom and the dad too. There's a whole
there's a whole thing. There is a whole thing. Um
And this is a theme that happens all the time.
But like I would say that in that movie Witchcraft,

(23:00):
which is a sort of scene as like women liberating
themselves from the patriarchy and like whatever way that they right, right,
and then just becoming their own and shedding somethings, shedding
some things like I would love to talk about that
we should have like a spoiled like a whole episode
for like, if you wanted to see any of these movies,
don't don't listen to this. Yeah, you don't listen to it.

(23:22):
But I want to talk about the Witch. Then there's
the Grand High which from Rural Dolls the Witches, who
appears young and beautiful but it's actually old and ugly.
Oh yeah, Angelica Houston, she was phenomenal. I was scared
so long from that movie alone. But at the same time,

(23:43):
I loved it because it also had like the calmness
of an English movie, so it's not your American in
your face like that. I would say. It was just
like kind of like, hey, I'm a mouse or I'm this,
and I'm just gonna walk around and oh no, there's
a witch. Like it kind of starts doing that way.
But Angelica Houston as always the like when she acts
like she's so disgusted by children, I believe that any

(24:06):
moment she's going to vomit, like she's phenomenal, phenomenal. Oh no,
I had to watch that. See we had that movie
when I was growing up, and I was so afraid
of the cover, was scared. I didn't watch it was again,
and you're right, it became this whole like Hagwich versus
beautiful witch, and it was just this great dichotomy of
what it was and who they really were and how

(24:26):
awful they were. Maybe it does have something about motherhood.
Maybe actually probably they just they just despies children. These
women despies children were the monsters were just like, look
at the feminism of the shot. I I enjoy it.
I've long wanted to do my feminist movie viewings that

(24:49):
reminds me of our next The next thing I have
on the list Hocax Focus, which is coming back to theaters. Yeah,
I have a ticket for it because I watched this
movie so much when I was a kid. It was
banned from our house. Really until I got to college,
like from eight years old and Dell College, I didn't
see Hocus Focus on. My parents were like, never will
this play. Oh, that's the trick that that's when you

(25:11):
just get that one movie for that kid, be like
stopped talking, watch your same movie. I think that it
even in like in the background, wore them out. And
in fact, I rented it so many times from Blockbuster
they eventually were like, keep it. You've earned this, You've
paid for it five times. Now just just take it.
You made a payment plan. I mean, hocus Pocus is phenomenal.

(25:32):
I had it in like the Blockbuster case. The actual
cover looked like you stole it. Yeah. And then we
Samantha and I were recently in Orlando, and of course
we went to Disney World, which in August was having
a Halloween celebration but not so scary, how Mickey is
not so scary? Halloween party and the show that night

(25:53):
we watched at midnight. UM was hocus Pocus based and
it was great. And I've had Season of the Witch
stuck in my head ever since. They did a phenomenal job,
all of them that portrayed it and made this. I
was wondering how they wouldn't do this and not be
kitchy and over the top. That movie is pretty kitchy. No,
but it's so well done. Come on and yeah, it's

(26:14):
a great movie. And I'm excited because I want to go.
I don't know if I got my ticket yet, but yeah,
that movie is definitely one for all time record, like
cult classic level. I want to do next time I
met karaoke, I want to sing I put a spill
on you. Um. But yeah, I remember they grown when
they were like, it's been twenty six years. I think

(26:35):
all of us just grown, got angry and said why
did you? Was that necessary? Didn't remind us? But how
old we were? Dank you? But that's another Um. It's
a fun one to include on this list, I think
because their whole thing is that they're gonna suck the
youth out of your children so that they can stay beautiful.

(26:59):
And that's a pretty consistent theme and a lot of
our hearts. Definitely like the snow white idea as well. Yeah,
for sure. Um, and then you have yeah so also
the classic witches of was it of Oz you have Glinda,
the good Witch, and then the Wicked Witch of the West.
They're all female, obviously, and they all represented the goodness

(27:20):
and the bad and all of this, but it was
all absolutely female. And the one powerful person was a
fake but it was a man, but he was supposed
to be the all powerful who could take all of
these witches out, which I thought was kind of interesting
as well. Yeah, I don't know, it's the horror movie,
but shoes sometimes when that scene comes on where she's scared,
like screeching across the sky about taking your dog when

(27:40):
she melts, that scared me. Yeah, And the whole idea
with Poppy Sue and we know the whole book book
in itself was political, but yeah, I always thought that
was an interesting Yeah. I debated on including them because
of Wicked because then they're kind of painted as good,
right friends and good that they have been, you know,

(28:01):
But I think that's the whole new thing is to
take whatever was bad. Miller, But you didn't actually know
the whole story, like Supernatural does that as well as
once once upon a time on the ABC Show they
would do that as well. Well, that's the fun part
of a complex bill and is usually they have something
that you can write really to the weird Sisters or
the wayward Sisters and from Shakespeare. Um, still the female

(28:25):
alien hybrid from SPC. So we're moving away from which
is now so we're moving gone, okay, so we got
the hybrid from which, by the way, super scary movie.
I just remember the one scene of her kissing and
it's like, yeah, I pretty much blocked that movie from
my memory. I saw when I was a kid, and
I was like, no, no, beautiful model woman who turns
into a monster, got it? Um? And then there's Carrie

(28:45):
from Carrie and I know, like you were talking about
the fact that this is also probably up there with
the fact that men are terrified of menstruating women. And
even though she was not necessarily a monster, she is
telekinetic and so therefore the mother the evil mother once again. Yeah,
once again we were coming back to created this monster

(29:06):
who is carry Yeah, so it kind of goes back
to that mile and like theory of what is this
I never would have included carry on this list, honestly,
but she comes up on a lot of other people's list,
so I figured we should mention her. But to me,
I don't know. I guess she is telekinetic, right, So
the whole thing is, yes, this horror movie level, But

(29:27):
is she a monster? She becomes a monster created by
being an outcast. And of course the very obvious signs
of blood and menstruating means that she's done something evil,
which was the most of the mother has translated that
to be. And so therefore, men, if you're menstruating, your evil. Yeah,
I guess so that's what I've been told. And I

(29:50):
suppose along those lines, I'm a fire starter. Yeah, trying
a child that will set you a fire more as
a child, pretty scary. Yeah. H. Then there's the main
character from Teeth, which is a movie I know I've
mentioned before about Vagina Dentata. Uh, And to be clear,

(30:12):
Vagina Dentata is not the monster, but she uses it
in a pretty like monster type way. And yeah, I
feel like, again this reflects our anxiety around female sexuality.
You can't trust women, they aren't what they seem, um,
and this movie kind of falls into a whole genre
of women wronged and that generally means raped and then

(30:34):
getting revenge. And this is another genre where the monster
label can get really murky, really really I mean revenge
movies in general. Um uh, still monster perhaps, but not
really in the way we're talking about today. Right. Then
there's the creepy rogue AI, pretty often voiced by women,

(30:54):
sometimes even a female avatar, like in the classic Resident Evil.
So I'm thinking like she or no her, Well, not
a monster, but it's a um ex makina though that
is a good example, like a rogue. The new Hilary

(31:17):
Sweat movie that's on Netflix. She there's an AI that
takes care of this human child, and then there's a
battle between who are you going to believe who's the
actually evil villain? Oh? How interesting? Um. There are a
lot of female ghosts that are I guess evil, like
Lady in Black. That's the first one that comes to

(31:39):
my mind. But so there's that, you know, um, and
then there is other Mother from Coraline, which by the way,
I refused to see because it looks creepy as hell
is like I just saw the button eyes, but and
I was like, nope, it's good. It's good. Um. They
have a are they used to at the Center for
Puppet Yards. They had a little set piece from it
was haunt me. Um. And speaking of children, there's also

(32:03):
we see this in children's books. A recent study from
The Observer found that not only our children's books twice
as likely to contain male main characters and there are
far more likely to have speaking roles compared to female characters,
and villains were eight times more likely to be male.
And the researchers at that paper are pretty good at
explaining why that is such a problem, especially at a

(32:25):
formative age, something you're reading to your children or that
they're reading. Um, can we talk about why so many
of the children's books and children's stories have their parents
killed off? It's because the story wouldn't happen if someone
was there to be like, hey, kid, go into the
woods and talk to this creepy already I think it's
problematic another episode. Um. There are some famous fictional serial

(32:48):
killers I did want to mention because they have this
sort of supernatural element to them. Um, Jason's mom from
the original Friday the Thirteenth, Although Jason is more the
one that's like if you've seen the whole series, which
I embarrassingly have. Um, he's like a demon, right, but
there's a whole thing. Um. And then Mrs Lomas from
Scream Too, because I love Scream Too and I just

(33:10):
watched it. How did that come up? Yesterday? You were talking,
oh when you put a reference to that, and no
one except for Lauren from Saber and we were all like, hell, Cassandra,
Oh my gosh, Lauren's always got my back, She's got
your story. Um. And there are some famous, not so
recent ish examples, like the Bride of Frankenstein from five,

(33:34):
who doesn't show U until the very end of the film.
And I read very funny, like two different interpretations of
this film. Either the bride screwed everything up by rejecting
the monster because if you don't know at the end,
she's like no, or the monster was an entitled doe
got mad't know, lady're rejecting him, which consign sounds one

(33:55):
and the same again because of rejection towards the monster
Man Man Monster. How interesting. Then there's Jacula's daughter from
ninety six, who tries to overcome the curse of her
father by finding an immortal mate. Okay, I gotta find
a man or else you're doing to monster hood. And

(34:16):
then there's the Invisible Woman who has an invisible baby
with an invisible man. Of course, oh, how could you
imagine if it would it be half invisible? So would
it be like if she went with a not invisible man, oh,
assuming it had a lot um. Then there is the

(34:37):
cat Woman from Cat People, which is the n film
about a woman who can't have sex or she'll turn
into a panther. I mean we all know that, right
every time I have sex to a cat of some sorts. Um,
And that movie plays a lot with gas lighting, because

(34:58):
even when there is like scientific evidence that yes, she
does her into a panther she has sex, no one
believes her. Of course, the evils women in sex. Then
there is the wasp Woman from The Lost Woman. This
film depicts a woman who successfully founded a cosmetic company
but is desperate to find a way to maintain her youth.

(35:20):
Her cosmetics are not doing it for her, so she
formulates an anti aging product with royal jelly from bees,
with herself as the test subject. But of course side
effects may include turning into a lost woman. I feel
like we definitely have a theme here with the whole
age and baby. Definitely blood and sex because I'm just
thinking about the fact that who who was the the

(35:43):
woman who bathes herself in blood trying to stay younger,
but she was an actual woman, um, and that was
one of the reasons that kind of that whole monster
theme began because of her legend. But anyway, I just
I just find that fascinating. And then we have the
young pigtailed girl from nineteen The Bad Seed, which, by

(36:03):
the way, I'm going to these last three movies we
just talked about. I have no idea what these movies are.
I've never heard of these movies, and I'm both horrified
and intrigued. Yeah, well I've seen I haven't seen um like,
I've seen them maybe once when I was young. Uh,
and I just remember thinking they were kind of silly.

(36:23):
But the Bad Seed did scare me actually, um, but
worth checking out if you're at all interested in this
female monster thing. Um. We have some female monsters of history.
But first we have a quick break for word from
our sponsor and we're back, thank you sponsored. So, of course,

(36:56):
one of the first female monsters that comes from my
mind in an old school is the Gorgon slash Medusa
from Greek mythology is actually one of the first things
that I was ever proud of drawing. But then I
had to admit that I traced it when everyone was
complimenting me and asking me how I drew such a
good pa, I traced it. I would have believed it. Um.

(37:18):
To fill you in on her back story, the god
Poseidon raped her in Athena's temple, uh, and Athena, outraged
that this could happen in her temple, punished who Medusa.
This is such a biblical Old Testament idea, the thought
being with this punishment that she's so hideous men that

(37:40):
dared to look upon her would turn to stone. Then
it would never happen again. Of course that's like the
easiest way. Um. So that is an example of women
not supporting women and some of that. Yeah, yeah, I
think that's the pretty we can say that with confidence.
And some versions of this tale Perseus state this is

(38:00):
a well earned punishment for Medusa. That's the most terrifying
thing of the story. I feel like, yeah, that translates
a little too well. I know, I'm very uncomfortable with
how well it translates. So Another female monster from the
Greek mythology are the sirens, who lured mostly male sellers
to their destruction with their beautiful songs. The most well

(38:23):
known depiction is in the Odyssey, ody Has, warned of
their power, had himself tied to his ship's mass while
his crew put wax in their ears to block out
the sirens call. These creatures, by the way, were hybrids
with the bodies of birds and the heads of women,
which that's sexy sexy uh. And in some tales they
were persephonese companions, and when they failed to stop her rape,

(38:45):
they were turned into sirens, which seems to be a
common theme in Greek mythology punishing women for rape. It
seems to be it's already come up twice to exist,
so the sirens seemed to originate after the Greeks had
contact with Eastern art. Sirens were extremely confident in their talents.
They unsuccessfully challenged the Muses, and the Muses being the

(39:06):
nine Greek goddesses of various arts. Legend goes a sign
invested in musically by mortal must die. Also in the Odyssey,
Scilla and Carabas sisters who were cursed to be ugly
as punishment for their misdeeds. No greater punishment of course.
Um Sila was a six headed rock monster. Why wild

(39:30):
Cards was a sea monster just snacking on poor loss sailors.
You know I could do so sad. Then there are heartpies,
Greek and Roman mythical monsters with the body of a bird,
usually a vulture, and the face of an old woman.
In early legends they were not depicted that way, but
in the legend of Jason and the Argonauts, which is

(39:50):
probably one of the most well known uh, they were
portrayed as half bird, half women and quite revolting, like
they stank. They stole your food, and that was one
of the first times that it was written this kind
of signature move of theirs, that they steal your food. Um.
Their name is derived from a Greek word meaning snatchers.
They abducted people, usually evildoers, and cruelly punished them while

(40:15):
taking them to the furies. They are thought to The
harpies are thought to represent wind spirits, in my opinion,
most terrifyingly portrayed in the Last Unicorn. And in case
you're wondering, there is in fact an entire essay written
about the Feminism of the Last Unicorn, and I have
read it. Really I love that movie. It's on my

(40:37):
list of terrifying children's You had to be it, must
have you must have rented it because you were too
young for that movie. We owned it. I don't know
that we're talking about the Tom Cruise movie Tom Crew.
Oh no, no, no, I'm sorry, I'm that's legend. That's legend.
So confused because legend has it is based on a

(40:58):
unicorn is Oh my god, and that's Tim Curry being
a frightening, frightening Well, I want to see this. Its
poor quality. That's the Last Corn Okay, okay, okay, yeah,
now I'm there. Never mind keeping two movies to watch. Um.
This whole thing, the heartbe is where the insult heartpie

(41:20):
comes from, meaning a foul or unpleasant woman. UM. A
picture of a rare heartpie eagle went viral yesterday as
we record this, due to its resemblance to a human. Um.
It really is cool. Look it up like this. This eagle,
in in particular, which is named after the herpe from
Greek mythology, looks amazing and weird and you can't believe

(41:43):
it exists. So check it out. And that that that
brings us to the furies or the arenes or the
human ideas from Greco Roman mythology, and these are the
goddesses of vengeance, frequently depicted as how with snakes in
their hair and snakes wrapped around their arms, and blood
dripping from their eyes, dressed in black, carrying whips. In

(42:08):
their first incarnation, they were the ghost of murdered people,
or perhaps like curses comb to life. The Greek poet
Hessiad conceived of them as the daughters of Gaya Argaia
birth from the blood of her murdered spouse Urinus, as
a pretty dark origin story. The first to describe them
in three, because normally now we think of them in

(42:29):
threes was Euripides. Eventually they were named Alecto which means
unceasing and anger tis a phony, avenger of murder, and
mcgara jealous and I got that pronunciation from the animated Hercules,
so that is probably not correct, although that is an
interesting kind of side because there are three I believe

(42:51):
there's three characters that kind of represent the furies in
that movie. Um. They the furies were frequently depicted as
spirits of the underworld that came to the of Us
to punish the wicked, particularly crimes around family and oaths.
Their punishment could be something like disease or madness. They
were so feared by the Greeks that they referred to

(43:12):
the furies and euphemistic terms like the furies or the
gracious ones, like be nice to them, call them nice things,
maybe they'll leave you alone. In the Iliad, they cloud
people's judgment and reason. Homer wrote that they had no
pity in their hearts, and they are sometimes called the
daughters of night. They are the embodiment of righteous rage,

(43:35):
and as such there are a lot of feminist articles
written about them as well. A pretty current um also
now the name of an Australian slasher movie is it? Yeah,
that's what there was first results when I was searching
on Google. I feel like I need to try to
check that out. Of course, there's the succubus or that
which lies beneath. Check out the full episode in our

(43:56):
archives are more, but briefly, the succubus is a female
sexual demon. That's my nickname playing. The legend of the
psucupus is thousands of years old and transcend culture as
jins and Arabic cultures. This demons m is approaching men
while they're sleeping and seducing them. Laura suggests succubus are
the descendants of Lilith, which we're gonna get into in
a second, because I know you're super excited about that.

(44:20):
The succubus has taken on a sort of cultural second
win lately. You can see that on our classic episode
Can You Have Sex with a Ghost? Which is okay um,
And also apparently that's where we talked about y'all talk
about Kesha reported having sex with a ghost. Yeah, and
that plays into a lot of um, sleep paralysis. Uh,

(44:42):
there's very many actually scientific research into that very phenomenon.
So yeah, check out that classic for more on that one.
Then there's Banshees, another pretty famous female monster, although I
guess she's just kinda trying to warn you generally. Um,
she's from This is from Irish and Scottish lower. Sometimes

(45:02):
the ghost of an old maid wailing about your impending
probably violent death. Sometimes the visage of a beautiful maiden
weeping about your impending death and some retelling. She can
be found washing her flooded clothes in the river or
brushing her hair with a silver comb, and modernly people
think this this myth originated from the sounds of barn owls.

(45:25):
And when I read that, I was like, oh, I
can see that, because I've heard one. I had just
watched the Mothman prophecies and there was a barn owl
or a screech owl outside my window and it scared me, so,
oh my god, I thought it was a mothman. But
the next day my neighbor, who's kind of she knows
a lot about nature, was like, no, that was just
now you're fine. Um. But they also have kind of

(45:48):
like white plumage that can look like a face, um,
And they're very silent when they fly. So I can
see how you might think it's a wheeling ghost of
a woman who's warning you about your death because you're
just anxious all the time. Well, I guess some warning
would be good. It's a nerving sound. Oh my gosh. Well,

(46:08):
then we have Grendel's mother from Beowulf, who is described
as a woman monster wife. Embodying both light and dark
sides of the feminine seems to be a common theme.
When she's first mentioned in the poem, she's described as
an avenger once against avenge revenge. There is a lot
of themes of like getting justice, punishing people for doing wrong, um,

(46:31):
and then there This is one of the most interesting
inclusions on our list. I think Baba Yaga here we
go from Russian folklore. I had to really try to
keep raining in and they will not make the whole
upset about her. She lives in a hut that has
chicken legs. In some versions it spins on top of
eggs and is bodecked in skulls, and she travels herself

(46:53):
via mortar, mortar and festal. When someone visits her, she
may eat you or offer to help you. That's the
interesting thing about Bobby Iaga that a lot of UH
historians think is unique is because in the very same
story she can be like a trickster, murderer, a helper
all in one woman. We contain multitudes um. Bobby i

(47:18):
Aga is frequently depicted as an old woman crone or
hag could be applied here nar old and toad like
with long stringing gray hair and iron teeth or no teeth.
Sometimes she has written as traveling with death and feeding
on deaths, newly released souls and yes, when looking at
the wealth of information that has been written about her,

(47:38):
she is sometimes maternalistic and others cannibalistic. Probably the most
famous instance of Bobby Aga in literature is from Vasilisa
the Beautiful. This Russian fairy tale follows Vashalisa, whose mother
died when she was young. Before her death, the mother
gave her a doll like no other doll in the world,
instructing her daughter to never let anyone see it and

(48:00):
carry it with her always. Those dolls, Those damn dolls,
Those damn dolls. I actually, I actually pitched a whole
episode on why do we think dolls are creepy? And
everyone was like, no, I wanted to know. Um okay,
so yeah, if she's carrying it with her always and
if she's ever threatened by evil sorrow, the mother tells

(48:22):
Vashaaliza to find an isolated corner or someplace that people
won't see her, take the doll out, feed it, give
it a little something to drink, and then tell it,
um what's bothering her? And then the doll gets her
some advice or will. And not soon after her mother's death,
vashially said does this, She takes up the doll feeds
it a little, gives it a drink, and then tells
it about her grief of her mother dying, and the

(48:44):
doll listens and then says, grief is worse at night
and morning is wiser in the evening, and suggested that
Vashalisa go to sleep, and Vashi Lisa found that she
did feel better the next day. Meanwhile, her father had
found a new wife, a widower about his age with
two daughters. The woman and her children moved into their house,
and Vasha Lisa quickly realized that her father's new wife

(49:07):
was quite cruel. She wanted her father's wealth, and her
and her daughters were envious of vasha Lisa's beauty. By
giving her a lot of menial and difficult chores, they
hoped to diminish her beauty, but Vashaalisa was resilient and
she has that special doll. Years went by this way
until Vasha Lisa reached marrying age oh no, and everyone

(49:30):
wanted to marry her, of course, um and this made
her stepmother and sisters even angrier. So when Vashelisa's father
left to make a journey to another sardom, his wife
packed up to all the stuff sold his house and
moved everybody herself were daughters and Bashaalisa to a sad
neighborhood bordering the wild woods outside of town, and every

(49:50):
day her stepmother sent bass Elisa into the woods to
compete various tasks. The stepmother did this knowing that Boba
Yaga lived in these woods, who people believed eight people
like one eats chickens and delicious. Her hope was that
Vasha Lisa would encounter Boba Yaga and be eaten. The

(50:12):
doll knew of Bobby Yaga and warned Vasha Lisa not
to approach the hut on chicken legs fair, But the
stepmother was determined and with the help of her daughter's
orchestrated a situation where Vasha Lisa had to go to
Baby Yaga to get more fire um. But Vasha Lisa

(50:32):
does all of this instead of getting eaten. Bobby Iaga
just is like, here's some impossible to ask, Let's see
if you can do them. And because she has that doll,
Vasha Lisa succeeds in these tasks and as a reward,
Bobbyaga gives her one of her skull lanterns Awesome when
Vasha Lisa returns home. The lantern sets the home of

(50:53):
her terrible new family flame, killing them, and then she
goes on to marry the Tsar the end however, after
in this story, it's a great example Babba Yaga fiel
filling many roles um, similar to what we discussed in
our episode around the Mother Destroyer. Sometimes in other stories
she is depicted as a goddess um or in others

(51:14):
the manifestation of winter storms. Perhaps because of this enigmatic nature,
she has become quite the popular figure on the internet,
and yes is sometimes it's jokingly referred to as a
feminist icon. I'm not mad that no, No, she unseated
the Mermaid and Jezebel's next top creature race, beating out

(51:37):
the Siren. That's fantastic. And in two thousand thirteen, the
feminist website The Hairpin launched an advice column called Asked
Baba Yaga that eventually became a book called Asked Babba
Yahuga Otherworldly Advice for Everyday Troubles. The book's author, Tasia
Kaskaya said of Baba Yaga that image of an old
woman living in the woods doing whatever she wants all

(51:58):
day long continue used to be the dream for myself.
I love that I'm with her. I want to be there. Um.
And then, when trying to get to the bottom of
Bobba Yaga's popularity, academics thought it might be due to
her ability to house a paradox the good, the evil,
and the in between, to live outside moral codes and
for women, specifically, her rejection of society's rules. Yeah, boom,

(52:20):
I could see it, because I mean clearly I got
I was you are like and you know what with
all that? Yeah, let me do that. Um. And if
you want to learn more about Bobby Yaga, you should
check out the Stuff you missed in History Class episode,
which is our podcast done by some of our wonderful
co workers here, wonderful Piz Didira and Bobby Yaga. And briefly,
if you're wondering, Pizza Diira is a supernatural crone from

(52:42):
Brazilian folklore who lies and wait on roofs at night,
waiting for some poor soul with a full stomach to
fall asleep on their backs, stomach pacing up so that
they can jump and trample on them. H And yeah,
there is an entire scientific study examining Pizza Diira and
her connection to sleeper elsis specifically her. That's a great monster.

(53:04):
Roll over, just roll over. Now, all they do is
jump on your stomach. It's like a cartoon coming to
Life's amazing. Well, you know, I'm sure it's probably pretty violent.
I sure. I mean if you really get down to it.
But then at the time time you're like what my
cousin used to tell me that if I fell asleep
on my back, I wouldn't survive to see the morning.

(53:25):
Into this day, I can't sleep on my back. Yeah,
it's because she said there was something like waiting under
your bed and it would it could only stab you
through the back. So to this day, I cannot sleep
on my back. A really specific tale, it was. It
was quite specific. Speaking of specific tales, this brings us
is probably my favorite part, right. Lilith lilith Um and

(53:46):
some Jewish religious interpretations. Lilith, who was Adam's first wife,
went on to become the mother of all the monsters,
so the mother of everything we're talking about here, after
refusing to submit to the missionary position like sexual mission. Yes, cool, Okay,
So this whole idea of like the missionary position and

(54:09):
all that this comes from a medieval Jewish text called
the Alphabet of Binsurah, which a lot of historians believe
could be satirical. Um. But okay, Lilith was created with
the earth, as was Adam, and had many strong opinions
from love. Very start, she said to Adam, I will

(54:34):
not lie below, to which he responded, I will not
lie beneath you, but only on top, for you are
fit only to be in the bottom position, while I
am to be the superior one. Lilith snapped back, we
are equal to each other inasmuch as we were both
created from the earth. And then when Adam still wouldn't
like listen to her, she flew away. She she took

(54:58):
God's name in vain, which was a huge Judeo um,
and flew away. And then Adam was like, oh God,
like literally God, she flew away, What will I do?
And God sent three angels after her to persuade Lilith
to return, inform her that if she refused, one of
her children, a ka demons would die each night. And

(55:20):
lili refused. She said nope, I'm not coming back, and
she promised to leave children human children who wore an
amulet to ward her off alone. So because she was like,
I won't eat all of your human children as long
as they take some precautions. They threatened to drown her
in the I think the Red Sea, when that's why

(55:41):
she agreed. Um, and yes, there was an ancient practice
of giving children an ambulance inscribed with the names of
the three angels that was meant to keep Olilith away.
Lilith also is frequently condemned for wondering about at night,
vexing the sons of men and causing them to defile themselves.
Oh jeez. Lilis story is complex and fascinating. The first

(56:03):
known reference of her goes back to Samrian list of
demons from two thousand, four hundred BC. Lelu demons were
similar to Succuby, who seduced sleeping men in order to
produce demonic children. Iterations of her appeared in ancient Egyptian, Greek,
and Israeli legends. Got the name checked her and Fast
in Ulysses by James Joyce, she is labeled as the

(56:27):
patron of abortions. In C. S. Lewis's Chronicles of Narnia,
she is the ancestor of the White which I didn't
know that She's mentioned in the Chronicles of Naria. A
tablet from the seventh or eighth century BC found in
Syria mentioned Lilith, ohe you who fly in the darkened room,
be off with you? This instant Lilith, thief, breaker of bones,

(56:49):
so scary like that, I'm gonna put that out somewhere.
In some versions of the story she made it with
the archangel Samuel. In other versions a demon which I've
seen versions where she's sister God, not necessarily the darkness
or whatever, but not necessarily the wife of Adam. Yeah,
I mean that's another thing, is there is interpretation around

(57:10):
that she never was Adam's wife. Um. A lot of
discussion around the lift. But when we wanted to touch
on Judas Plasco wrote a parable in nineteen seventy two
about her about Lilith called the Coming of Lilith, reframing
the story in a similar way that Wicked did with
the Wizard of Oz as we could win to the West.

(57:30):
In the parable, she fled for refusing to be treated
as lesser than Adam, who she regarded as her equal,
and was viciously slandered for it. And then she and
even looking for some women some support, they became fast friends,
and Lilis sort of became a feminist hero after that,
an image helped along by the nineteen six launch of

(57:51):
Lilith magazine, complete with the tagline independent, Jewish and frankly feminist.
And in the all female music festival, it is fair,
of course, a little fair. I love that. And then
you know, as you were talking about the retelling of
the stories, and like a lot of the pop culture,
which has been a new thing to bring Lilith back
up supernatural that kind of revamped her story and that

(58:12):
as well, and she was also in True Blood. They
don't necessarily revamp part of that storyline. Um, but some
modern witches and pagans invoke Lilith in their practices and rights,
especially those involving the darker side of the feminine. So yeah,
like goals around money or writers. Yeah, which if any
listeners are involved, and uh, these kinds of practices and rights,

(58:34):
So we'd love to hear from Oh my gosh, I
could talk about Lilith. There's so much to say about this. Actually,
one of my favorite books is um called Lilith, and
it's kind of reclaiming the name because then for a
while the name was just seen as like evil. I
do like this brings us to the end of our
history of monsters, even though there's so many that we

(58:56):
could include, and so many of these that could be
fleshed out into full episodes. But I do think it's
interesting ending on Lilith, like this mother of monster idea
that we've been touching on the whole time. Um, and
we can see these themes over and over again of
like motherhood and revenge and justice and just kind of punishing, right,

(59:22):
which is the dark side of the feminine. I mean,
Lilith is kind of the ark of being a feminist
saying hell no, hell no. Okay, well, yeah, we have
a little bit more for you, but first we're going
to pause for one more quick break forward from our sponsor,

(59:53):
and we're back. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you monsters,
and also thank you sponsors who are not monsters. Well
it's on my brain, okay, yes, Um. We did want
to touch on some things that are changing because we
have given what I feel like are some pretty great

(01:00:14):
examples of female monsters and what they can be. We've
given some not so great ones as well, but there
is still this monster gap that we touched on the
beginning um and some badass women out there are trying
to make things more equal when it comes to our
betrayal around monsters. Theodora Goss got a pH d in
English in part by writing a four page dissertation on

(01:00:36):
Victorian monsters, and she wanted to remedy this whole thing,
or at least do her part to remedy it, by
writing a short called The Mad Scientist's Daughter, which follows
Katherine Monroe, Justine Frankenstein, and Diana Hyde. And she built
upon that universe with the novel The Strange Case of
the Alchemist's Daughter, which I kind of love that. Yeah,

(01:00:57):
I love the whole plotline. And when it comes to
out entertainment, for so long, women have only been allowed
to exist within the framework of the male gaze. And
we talked about before, if she's not sexualized, she's ridiculously
de sexualized. And if these horror examples shows anything, we
are still grappling with our fear of women's sexuality. Obviously
so minor, minor thing to tackle, right, but that that's

(01:01:18):
that play in all of this um our discomfort with
women who don't behave how we expect them to, of
women who step outside the narrow box we've deemed appropriate
for femininity. That's another thing that's in play at play
and all this, And I do think it's interesting that, Um,
like we said at the top, male monsters are frequently
allowed sympathy and female monsters are not. They're not as

(01:01:40):
fleshed out, they're not as a whole of characters. UM.
And this very thing and the fact that women commit
murder at much lower rates than men contribute to a
culture that sensatialized female murderers. UM. So there's a lot
to talk about, so many things when it comes to
female monsters and not uh nerdy stuff. I was getting

(01:02:02):
to talk about one of my favorite things at least, right.
I love that knows I learned a lot. See how
passionate you are, and it's fantastic. Yeah, I got I
have a lot of passionate. That's very diplomatic where I'm
saying it. Um, we would love to hear from listeners
if there's any uh monsters that you want to uh
want us to return to, or that we didn't mention

(01:02:23):
our movies, that we should watch, books we should read.
You can send those our way before we get into
our our outro. Officially, though we do have some shout outs.
We do have shout outs. So of course to backtrack
with all of our love for horror movies, and I
picked a couple out which you may have already heard,
that are women in horror movie genres or talking about
mysteries of swords. So Women in Caskets, which is one

(01:02:46):
podcast which I know, I think it's got a pretty
big following anyway, but I was like, oh, this is cool, which,
by the way, when I googled it without the word podcast,
I got some really bad pictures. Don't do that. Don't
do that. Um. And then Switchblade Sisters, which is also
another great little podcasts, great to look into. Again, they
probably all have pretty big followings. But if y'all are
interested and I have not heard of these, jump on it.

(01:03:07):
If you'll know more that I need to get it
into or especially and he needs to get into it obviously. Um.
Remember I was trying to I needed we need to
reach out to Tan yet because she was posting about
them recently too. Okay, yes, you can send any of
those suggestions any at all to our email. It is
Stuff Media Mom Stuff at ihart media dot com. You

(01:03:27):
can also find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast
and on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks
as always too, super producer Andrew Howard, and thanks to
you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You His prediction
of I Heart Radio's house staff works for more podcast
from my Heart Radio is the I Heart Radio app,
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