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February 1, 2025 • 54 mins

SMNTY continues flipping through the history and impact of women's magazines, this time focusing on diet culture and sex advice in this classic episode.

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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is They and Samantha and welcome stuff. I
never told you production of iHeartRadio all right. Today, after
our wonderful conversation we had with Michelle Norris, which I'm
not sure if you've heard at this point because of

(00:27):
the way our scheduling works, we did we talked about
briefly women's magazines and you Samantha and typical Samantha form
did a multi part.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
You know, you don't have to call me out like that.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
It's the New Year.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
I'm not going to change. It already happened, so come on.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
I don't think it's bad. I just think it's an
interesting character trait. So this is not the one you
actually mentioned in that episode, which was specifically about like
kind of Southern living Christmas magazines. But I did want
to bring it back because Michelle is sort of talking

(01:09):
about where did this come from? Who is the person
who's telling women you have to feel this way? And
I think during the whole New Year's Resolution season we've
already talked about how we don't really like that. But
I've noticed, you know, I'm getting all of these emails.
It's like, here's how you do this, and here's how
you do this, and here's how you do this. And

(01:29):
I think a lot of those women's magazines were for
a long time the big perpetuators of that. So in
this one we talked specifically about diet culture and sex advice,
and I think in the new year, women are just
bombarded with this stuff. So please enjoy this classic episode. Hey,

(01:54):
this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stuff I've
Never told you production of iHeart Radio.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
And we are coming back with an additional episode of
women's magazines and Dot Dot Dot because well, I have
elongated once again a very wide broad subject into several episodes.
It's not going to be the same amount as religious
trauma episode. Thank god, it's not going to be twenty thousand.

(02:31):
I think I'm going to keep it at a succinct three, okay,
because I have topics in mind. And with that, if
you haven't already, we would suggest going back to our
earlier episode on the history of women's magazines, because we
kind of break it down on how it began, what
it looked like, all of that and even the problems
back then. Because for today we are talking about the

(02:53):
state of women's magazines slash publications today and I do
say publications because obviously they like the handheld copy of
a magazine is less and less and you're more likely
going to see digital, which, funny enough, I kept running
into paywalls because I need to call somebody about that,

(03:17):
because that was an issue anyway. Yeah, Annie, did you
have do you have currently or did you have at
any point a favorite magazine or did you even have
a subscription.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
I looked this up because I knew we were going
to be talking about this. I didn't have a subscription.
I bought Entertainment weekly, not infrequently if it was a
movie or a celebrity I like. I had a subscription
to Disney Adventures, which was kind of a small magazine format.

(03:53):
You're not seeing what I can do, but like imagine,
size wise, most magazines are like eight by eleven. This
one was sort of third of that. Maybe that's probably
way off, but it was smaller, and I think I
got it. I originally subscribed to it because I loved
the Ulsen twins and they were somehow they were featured
in it quite frequently. But I remember very vividly, and

(04:16):
I don't know if we're going to talk about this
in this episode of the next. But Ryan Gosling was
on the cover one time as young Hercules, and I
had the cover. I took out like all the relevant
pages and saved them. But it wasn't him. That That's
not why I started subscribing. It wasn't him. But I

(04:37):
did save all of those and I remember the cover
so clear. Now, I mean, we do use a lot
of magazines for work. I think I'm still in the
same Like, if it's like a Star Wars magazine, I'll
get it. I went through a big I think Entertainment
Weekly is pretty like it's been the same. I have
a lot of friends who like seventeen, I went through
a Time magazine period.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah, but yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
It's more like if I see something like, oh I
really want that, it's less about a subscription thing, right.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
I remember Time magazine covers like nobody's business. For some reasons,
those stand out. Kudos to the art director and the
photographers because they would do their thing to make sure
they would stand out. But then like I never had
a subscription when I was growing up, my friends did,
so I would go over to their houses and we
would just go through the magazines and then like talk

(05:28):
about them. I want to say, like I was really
into music more so than anything else. I remember distinctly
a picture of Salt and Peppa because they were one
of my favorite groups when I was in middle school,
so I remember seeing them a lot. But I never
really had any magazines. Again, my mother had Southern living

(05:48):
in her house, and I think she had good housekeeping
in her house, and I think some of these subscriptions
were fundraising subscriptions.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
Oh yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
What I'm talking about.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
Like I remember, like that used to be a thing
way back when you could buy wrapping paper as school fundraisers,
but also you could buy subscriptions of magazines for a
good deal. Seventeen dollars for a year subscription, so that's
twelve magazines.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
I brought this back a stressful memory that i'd forgotten
because I was one of the kids that would try
to sell those wrapping papers. It was the worst. I
hated it. It's like I'm a failure. I can't sell anything.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
Well, you know, there was this episode.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
I don't know if anybody watched Parenthood at any point
in time. They are not gone, and there's some problematic
things in that whole show. But I really enjoyed it,
And one of the big episodes was that the kid
was selling the Christmas paper for his baseball team to
get uniforms and such, and he forgot and didn't do it,

(06:53):
and so he already had the paper, which was odd
to me because that was not the thing.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
You had to do it sign up for whatever.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
But like, uh, he yells at his mom for not
being rich enough to just order it herself and not
have to sell it.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
And I remember thinking that was a thing.

Speaker 3 (07:12):
The parents would be rich enough that they are the
grandparents would just buy it all and they wouldn't have
to worry about it because it.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
Was so stressful. It's like, what is this anyway? Wow,
that's just yeah, on the whole tangent on that one.

Speaker 3 (07:24):
But yeah, subscription magazines were a thing as well, and
appally I remember it being way back when in some
movies that there were door to door salesmen. He would
sell these as well, So it was a thing. It
was a racket, and now it kind of has become
a whole different thing with the digital world and print
may be dying.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
Slash kind of is.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
We all love it somehow, But with that some context,
now that we're actually talking about magazines, y'all before we begin,
we are going to be talking about body and fat
shaming as well as body dysmorphia and sexual content in
this episode, so happy Valentine's Day, well ahead of time. Also,
there's a lot of backlash that came out against women's

(08:11):
magazines not too long ago, the O there was a
whole reckoning in like two thousand and twenty ten.

Speaker 4 (08:17):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (08:17):
But also a lot of our information comes from then,
so it is fairly dated. Like I said, it looks
like more people were likely to look into how the
magazines have become or can become more feminists or empowering.
So that's good, and that's more recent, but in like
the late nineties. Also we have some articles from the
late nineties, so yeah, this is pretty dated nineties, early

(08:40):
two thousands and twenty tens where we're talking about the
problems with magazines and women's magazines specifically.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
So just that heads up.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
I think they still hold up because the same argument
is repeating itself. And there was a lot of like
overlapping of social media and magazine as well. So when
we talk about it, especially when it comes to like
teen stuff, it may be interchangeable. A lot of the
research that we saw from like thesis and research papers
again come from the late nineties and two thousands era,

(09:13):
early two thousands era, because again, like I said, there
was a big record and'll be like, why are we
doing this? Why are you still doing this? You' all
have a problem. So it's good to see that that happened.
It's sad to see it's still happening.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, ignore it now. A lot of when I'm checking
out the grocery store, a lot of the times I
look at the magazines, I'm like, wow, still.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
Okay, y'all, there's the cabbage diet. Cabbage soup diet is
still really big, apparently because I love cabbage soup. I
don't do it for that sake, but I would try
to find the recipe. All the articles have it, and
I was like, what, I just like cabbage soup. What's
happening anyway? Yeah, And it's something to note that the
print in itself has faded and moved towards digital or online,

(10:00):
and we'll probably talk about that in the last episode.
I'm going to say the next one is the last episode.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
I'm trying to convince yourself it's.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
Going to happen.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
I've narrowed it down two specific subjects, so I don't vary.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
So okay, well, we'll see, we'll see. I would also say,
go check out our episode we did on fanzines because
we did talk about some of this stuff in there.
Yes as well, but yes, okay, women's magazines today, there are, yes,
a lot of women's magazines still, and according to the
Library of Congress, they estimate quote, more than seventy five

(10:35):
thousand periodicals are published each year in the United States
and Canada alone, and that number swells to over one
hundred and twenty five thousand worldwide. Consumer magazines alone account
for more than twenty thousand North American titles, and women's
magazines have consistently ranked in the top ten magazine categories.
Of course, this includes all the different types of magazines

(10:58):
and the articles from twenty twin three, so the numbers
are not quite exact, but it's big. I would say
that's still pretty close.

Speaker 4 (11:05):
Twenty two eight, yeah, twenty three, ten years ago or
a month ago, we are.

Speaker 3 (11:22):
Going to kind of just delve into this ugly side
of women's magazine. So, like we said earlier, the women's
magazine industry has already had some shakeups, uh, and revamping
what they are doing or how they were portraying women overall.
And we mentioned this later, but yes, this is all
cis heteronormative. Just go ahead and put that there. Okay,

(11:44):
Unfortunately we will kind of dapple into it, but not really.
So this is the way they focus. It is making
sure women are women. And I say that sarcastically and
not with that belief in that conversation and that type
of statement, and that women all want a husband. Again
obviously not what we think, so but this is how
it's going to come out. But again, we can't ignore

(12:08):
the massive impact they have had overall in.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
General to society.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
We talked a bit about the way early periodicals transformed
women's fashion and encourage women to become more in tune
with their habits and housekeeping, but it would continue to
influence women, specifically when it came to body image, which
quickly became a moneymaker for I think all of the magazines,

(12:34):
not many, I think all of them.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah. In fact, according to a thesis done by Jamie S.
Nobles from the University of Southern Mississippi in twenty fourteen
discussing the depiction of Women's Body Image and magazines from
nineteen fifty two to nineteen ninety five, and it talks
about how advertisements within magazines changed over the years to
influence women. They talk about how body types and models

(13:00):
changed throughout history and also why that might be. Here's
a quote. The hypothesis stated that the depictions of women
would shift from curvy to thin women, but most of
the magazine advertisements depicted women as fit slash average in
the nineteen fifties, and the ads moved on to lean
models as the years progressed. Although actresses like Marilyn Monroe

(13:21):
were curvier and were thought to be sex symbols, the
models in the magazines did not reflect her type of voluptuousness.
There were fewer depictions of full figured women in the
magazines than any other category. Most of the models were
fit slash average until the nineteen seventies, and then the
number of lean models spiked. Of the one hundred and
eighty images viewed, lean was the most found model size,

(13:45):
with ninety of the one hundred and eighty models perceived
as lean. Fit slash average had the second highest number,
with sixty six of the advertisements seen as healthy, athletic, build.

Speaker 3 (13:56):
Okay, of course, as was and curvy as Marilyn Monroe was,
she would not be considered a plus or large size.
In fact, her waist size would have been more like
a small or even an extra small, and one size
said even smaller than that, Like it wasn't even on

(14:16):
a category of what we would see today. And though
she was medium at the top, according to the clothes
that people that the researchers have measured, and her hips,
and she did have hips, she would not have been
considered plus size today at all. Again, many want to
claim that because they says she wore size sixteen, she

(14:36):
wear size sixteen that they accord to French clothing and
most of her clothing were tailored to her. But yes,
she was curvy, sure on a different standard, Like that's
that's a whole different conversation. I think waist size was
typically twenty four inches small, and it got as big
as maybe twenty seven And from what I all so

(15:00):
is found, like it says that she uh probably weighed
from anywhere from like one hundred and four to one
hundred and fourteen and the most you's ever gotten was
one forty and for her being I think five to four.
That's not huge, that's not plus size. Let's just we
just we're just gonna put that there in some of
the changes in who was being advertised or what was

(15:21):
being advertised actually has a lot to do with trending
diet culture. Diet culture has been around for a long time,
to the Greek days. They said, because the whole athletic
look and all of that, and is a money making machine.
We've talked about this with like influencers and all of that.
This is a money maker according to different reports. And

(15:44):
I will say I was very confused and maybe I
don't understand the verbiage between like value market versus whatever else,
because the numbers were everywhere, So I was like what,
And again, this could have something to do with they
only had something that was specific to weight management versus
things like food, which even though they may not be
diet culture, they use and use that influence anyways, like

(16:05):
milk probably could still be considered.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
That level as well.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
So who knows, But with that estimated value of the
dieting industry, slash market is as high as over four
hundred billion dollars and seemingly increasing every year. Obviously, although
it did take a little bit of a dip when
a few years ago the whole body positivity became more
popular and more accepted, which I miss. But then we

(16:33):
now have the usage of products like ozimbic, which is
being used as a cure all for weight loss and
a giant money maker as well. It's no secret that
the magazine industry has had a hand with growing this
specific culture. Here's another quote from that same thesis. So

(16:54):
why did women's bodies depictions should from fit average to lean?
The researchers believes the key to that is the fitness
exercise boom of the nineteen seventies. By the seventies, Americans
awareness of fitness grew, and with that the role of
exercise in American lives expanded, and exercise became part of
the recreational pastimes. Jogging was one of the most popular

(17:16):
forms of fitness. For example, the New York Marathon, which
had previously only had approximately three hundred participants in nineteen
seventy two, expanded to include more than eleven thousand competitors
in nineteen seventy nine, with the influence of the Women's
movement and Title nine, an act that imposed a gender
equality in sports opportunities in educational organizations. A large number

(17:38):
of women took up sports for the first time in
the nineteen seventies.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
Right and it continues. The average size of men and
women continued to rise during this time, and obesity numbers
exploded in the nineteen eighties as food is made more
readily available and fewer people cook at home, turning America
into a fast food nation. Because of the fitness boom
and the increasing wasteband of Americans, the diet industry takes off,
and by the nineteen eighties is a multi billion dollar

(18:04):
a year industry. Within the structure of that industry, there
is a great deal at stake to keep women hooked
into the obsession about their beauty, their weight, and their
dieting practices. Advertisements that show women who are impossibly thin
and beautiful despite their rising obsc rates are showing women
what they should aspire to become. Women try to achieve

(18:26):
the impossible, and so they buy the diet products that
only guarantee a temporary solution to their weight problems. When
the diet is over, the women will most likely gain
the weight they lost plus some. The women then see
the perfect women in the magazine ads and experience body
dissatisfaction and decide to purchase more diet products. Thus an
endless circle is created. The fact that diets do not

(18:49):
work is the best kept secret in the diet industry.
Only long term lifestyle changes will help women to lose
weight and stay healthy. By presenting an ideal difficult to
achieve and maintain, the cosmetic and diet product industries are
assured of growth and profits. The shift the researchers saw
from fit slash average women to lean women could be

(19:10):
rooted in an economic ploy to keep women reaching for
the unattainable.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
Right, And I think that's such a big emphasis.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
This is a ploy, yeah, which why the back and
forth fat diets are huge. Atkins not a sponsor just
does not want you to keep that weight off. They
want you to continue to buy their products and tell
you that's the only way you're going to maintain that way, right.
There's so many things, of course, and we're gonna talk

(19:38):
a little bit about this later, Like this can also
create dangerous habits, which is really really unfortunate for later times.
And I will say I bought into this and sometimes
still do. I still do because I am so insecure
and I've been taught I need to be skinny, and
skinny means being a size three, which is impossible for

(20:00):
like it will never happen, but for some reason in
my head, I must, and therefore the pills that I
see on self magazines is definitely gonna help me.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
It is not.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's really it's effective. Get it
in your head, and you think, well, if I just
do this and do this, and I remember doing it,
especially like in college, and it was exhausting. It was exhausting,
and like the payout wasn't much, and.

Speaker 3 (20:32):
That wasn't I grew up hungry in high school in college,
and I am so sad that I missed out on food.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
Right.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
I literally ate pasta and that was one time of day.
And I still I think I've trained myself so badly
to not eat that I don't eat.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
And I know you know that level as well. I've
gotten better about it. I've gotten better.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
But if I'm busy or if I'm overwhelmed, that's the
first thing to go, yeah, because that's something I can control.
But we know that's so with unattainable goals that continue
to motivate tempt women other very specific magazines also came
into play.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
Magazines like Shape, Women's.

Speaker 3 (21:09):
Health, and again Self and other such magazines are riddled
with adverts that promise the perfect body in a short
amount of time. According to another research paper that was
published in Turkey, the influence of magazines like Women's Health
and Cosmo continue to not only perpetuate the perfect body,
but also the idea that perfection is only found within

(21:31):
westernized standards. Here's the quote from that paper. The magazine
often advises women to watch their weight all the time
by eating certain light mils and drinking certain healthy drinks,
helping to detox the body. Nevertheless, the magazine often shows
dieting as such an easy thing which women do not
have to worry about by getting into stress, as Clem

(21:53):
and Lennon, which was a researcher previously, have mentioned. However,
dieting is in fact a painful thing, especially for women
who have excess weight. Therefore, the magazine always puts ideal
beauty standards in front of women and it expects them
to reach those high standards by looking good and young. Therefore,
the female readers are implicitly advised that they need to

(22:16):
groom shop diet, do fitness, and take care of their
bodies to preserve a perfect image that is related with
that white ideal beauty, and that's we don't really talk
about this at all in that level. We do talk
a little bit about the fact that it is oppression,
this type of culture is oppression, but the fact that
the majority of what we see are all until recently,

(22:38):
like Kim Kardashian and like hip hop stars have kind
of changed that a little bit. I feel like Korean
pop stars have now brought it back to this Western
idea that you have to be skinny, skinny, skinny, as
one woman was quoted saying, being raith like is ideal,
and I think that's kind of the issue. And by

(22:59):
the way, we also are not talking at all about
the cosmetic industry, which, like I said, I picked and
choose because we did talk about that before with influencers
and such as that. But yes, the other if there
was a chart, I'm sure it was like forty five
percent diet culture for cosmetics and ten percent good luck fashion.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
I'm just kidding, yeah, fashion, because I if you want
to go back and listen to some episodes we've done,
but like things like shaving. That was largely due to
the fabric that was popular at the time, and it
was advertised magazines like if you want to wear this fabric,
you have to shave, so a lot of things like
that and also, oddly enough past the co host, I

(23:48):
believe it was Kristin Caroline, it was a long time ago,
talked about Barbie. One of the reasons Barbie is so thin,
it's cheaper to make clothing for someone who's very thin, right,
So it's all so very beneficial for the fashion.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
Industry right in general.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
And that's the parts that we also don't talk about this,
but I found an article upon article about talking about
the fact that being in this diet culture, being thin
gives more advantages to this idea of than privilege gives
more advantages to those who are thin, typically white as
well as yes, the cost effective because the clothing is

(24:26):
cheaper as well, because for some reason, anything that is
beyond a size eight needs to be ten dollars extra,
if not fifty.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
Yeah, yeah, and they should be. We'll put a big
asterisk on that. Because there's also been things that are like,
what are you doing it's not really yeah, but anyway,
that is there what they have said, Yes, yes, yes, okay,
But to go back to this research article we've been quoting,
they continue with this morning. However, the women who over

(24:56):
exercise and diet unfortunately engage in unhealthy behaviors such as
eating disorders as a result. In other words, the magazine
expects Turkish women to transform their bodies to a lighter
size and resemble the Western ideal of beauty, which not
only means culturally assimilating the curvy body, but also anticipating
to invite diseases such as anarexia or bolimia in the

(25:18):
long term.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
Right.

Speaker 3 (25:20):
Yeah, you know, there's been cultures where I'm like, yeah,
these are my people. I want to be here because
my body looks more like them.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah, and they like me better because of that.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
I have to say, I unfortunately witnessed this in other
countries where people will tell me, oh, I'm not going
to eat for a couple days, and I'd be like, what, like, oh, yeah,
I need to lose weight, and they would just say
it and I'd be.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
Like, oh, oh right.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
This whole level with again, like Europeans, no hate to
any Europeans, but like they will talk about the fact
that they can they can't look as big as Americans
or whatever whatnot. And so what they do is not
eat for a few days and that's absolutely normal. Like
that's like, that's so sad, don't you miss it? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
Also, like no offense, I've done it, but it is
not gonna less, it's.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
Not gonna Yeah, you're only causing yourself trouble and headaches,
literal headaches. Yes, and while we are here, let's just
remind ourselves, uh that though we are coming back to

(26:34):
the idea that dieting is good and being skinny is
the only way to exist. Yes, it is a sarcasm,
it's not, And that this movement in itself is anti
like just anti everything in so many ways.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
Yes. From the National Alliance for Eating Disorders. Diet culture
quote encompasses the collective beliefs and practices that promote the
pursuit of weight loss as the ultimate mark of health
and well being. It is a pervasive force that permeates
various aspects of our lives, from media portrayals of ideal
bodies to the messages we receive from friends, family, and

(27:11):
even healthcare professionals. Diet culture often emphasizes the importance of
adhering to strict eating regimens, promoting quick fixes, and advocating
for this thin ideal. It's based on fallacies like one
food is better than another, people who are thin are healthier,
people who are thin or more attractive. Higher weight bodies
are a result of poor health choices. Individuals have full

(27:34):
control over their health and appearance.

Speaker 3 (27:37):
Right, And in that article it talks about health ism,
which is this narrative which a lot of healthcare professionals
have done, which blame everything on being overweight and ignoring
the actual health and problems. And this is anti obviously.
That was an interesting TikTok video too of this young

(27:59):
young baby girl who calls herself a life coach saying
that tomatoes make you fat.

Speaker 4 (28:06):
That was it.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
And then what she I think was trying to say
when she was apologizing later on was everybody went after her,
was that it hurts her stomach and because of the
ascid and they're like, that's completely different. This is completely
different from they make you fat.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
Okay, calm down.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
But yeah, so with that, I mean it's it's cultures
like this that feed into that kind of narrative. And yeah,
this culture literally demonizes fatness and again, this is from
the National Alliance with this connection to Christianity and morality,
which we didn't talk about. We did kind of talk
about being the perfect housewife. That means having the perfect body.

(28:46):
The thought is the whole keeping the body clean and
holy or keeping it tight Yeah, yeah, and keeping it
tight for your spouse like they they meant to You
can't be getting that pot belly.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
I've heard that said.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
Literally a pastor, a preacher like his last name is Graham,
apparently he's there is the founder of.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
Great started on this whole subject. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
But he was one of those that preached.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
This idea that our body.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
And being skipping a meal is for God. Of course.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
We didn't talk about this in the ruligious trauma God
I just haunts me, I swear. But yeah, the idea
of fascinating which wasn't holy idea for sure, but is
used by many people to lose weight.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yes, yes, and we have discussed this before. This is
ingrained in our culture to a point that I think
a lot of people don't realize. We've had listeners write
in and be like you were saying something terrible, like
people should lose weight, Like Okay, but just real quickly,
Graham created Graham Crackers to like stop people from masturbating. Yes,

(29:56):
and he told me yeah, And now he hated sugar
and he basically thought you should like not experience food
really if you really sin. It was a moral issue.
And now grabcrackers. I'm so much sugar in them, and
it gives me joy.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
I wonder what his family thinks of that legacy.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
I mean, if they're getting the money, they probably don't care.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
But are they ashamed of that legacy or what I mean?
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Sure, And it's also like you know, I do get
joy out of it, but it is we also have
a kind of whole issue with sugar in this country
and what's added, so you know, but it does give
me joy that he's like in his grave.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Different conversation.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
But f y about gram crackers, because what do we
do but go on tangents In the first rade, my teacher,
who was one of my favorite teachers, would have us
give us gram crackers and then give us frosting and
let us cover it with frosting and candy, and that
would be our snack.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
And boy did I cross both sides.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
I mean, you use it to build gingerbread houses and
it's great.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
It's true, but I remember that snack like nobody's business,
thanks miss.

Speaker 3 (31:12):
Right. And with that, this, this diet culture actually supports
system of oppression. So when we say where it's anti
I mean it's anti uh. It is anti black. And
we've talked about it before, how this movement, how uh
the fat phobia is real racist ideals, especially when it
comes to oppressing people and who it oppresses and how
they use it against people of color, specifically black people.

(31:35):
It holds up the patriarchy because once again, this is
for the sake of men, oftentimes the way you look,
especially when we talk about looking your best for your husband,
for this, for your for your next day, for prom or.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
Exactly.

Speaker 3 (31:51):
And then it reinforces once again the idea of thin privilege,
which exists and people may like we talk about we
have we ever.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
Talked about pretty privilege and then privilege?

Speaker 1 (32:03):
Yes again, it's a weird thing though, because I know
we talked about it on the video series.

Speaker 3 (32:07):
I don't know, Okay, okay, maybe we need to come back,
because that's like it keeps coming back around in that
conversation about who gets what and why and who gets
the raises and who gets hired, and these are those conversations. Yeah,
and it's an industry that has made billions of dollars
on things that don't work or that don't last and

(32:30):
are not realistic, and uses your insecurities based on what
society dictates to you is good or is the best.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
Yes, and it's It can be heartbreaking when you know
someone who's doing it and they're like eating this one
food and they'll tell you, like, I've heard this one
will work, and you're.

Speaker 3 (32:49):
Right according to this magazine. I got these recipes and
I'm going to stick to it. Yeah, two almonds for
breakfast and I'm like that measuring stuff.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
Wow, oh my god, Oh my god. And the alliance
ends with quote. This diet culture fosters negative body image,
and it perpetuates unrealistic beauty standards and a serious weight stigma.
This toxic mindset contributes to body dissatisfaction and low self esteem. Additionally,

(33:20):
diet culture significantly increases the risk of developing eating disorders,
as the obsession with food restriction and control can trigger
disordered eating patterns and severe psychological distress. The harmful impact
of diet culture on both short term well being and
long term mental and physical health. It's a stark reminder
of the urgent need to challenge and dismantle this harmful ideology.

Speaker 3 (33:42):
Right. So, yes, that's not necessarily about magazines, but just
the reason why we think this is problematic. And even
though it seems harmless to have five exercises to tone
up your abs, it does contribute to this culture.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
So this is a reminder careful.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
Oh and with all that out of the way, let's
talk about how magazines in general have really really influenced
women in sex and the different ideas. Yes, again, if
you're hanging out with kids on this one, we're gonna
read some things. I think it might make you blush.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
Annie, I'm like pre blushing just thinking about it. So
I believe you're right.

Speaker 3 (34:28):
So FYI, you might want to pause and take the
young one out or put AirPods in however you need to.
And I have to admit that, as someone who lived
in the world of purity culture, I believed in it, y'all. Annie,
I didn't tell you this. My mother brought over a
tubfull of my childhood things. She's moving me out officially

(34:48):
for real, for real. So you've got a house, taking this,
take this right, and in it on the top I
find a certificate.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
It says marriage certificate, and and it is my marriage
certificate to Jesus. WHOA.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
So when I say when I say I was in
that culture and it is pristinely kept, my mother made
sure that it was kept all perfect on top, unlike
unlike me living in sin today, which she has accepted
and loves my partner. But anyway, when I say yes,

(35:27):
I lived in that purity culture, I honestly didn't know
much about sex until probably late twenties. And though of
course I understood the general concept. Yes, I have seen things,
I've seen movies. I would often turn to different magazines
like Cosmo, like Glamour, Red Book and even seventeen to

(35:51):
find out what men liked.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah, yeah, those those got me. Those articles got me. Uh.

Speaker 3 (35:58):
If I had a question of aout oral sex, I
would often see an article and in those magazines, and
I would try to take as many notes as possible. Annie, Yes,
I hear did like, oh you do this and that,
and that's why that seems weird. But okay whatever, And
I know I'm not the only one because that sold

(36:22):
I will say that that like we might have hidden
in and we might have giggled and not said it
out loud, but we sure to read it from relationship
advice on how to keep a man wanting more. Magazines
were a reference source for so many, so many women.
In fact, magazines are often how young people would educate

(36:42):
themselves on those embarrassing or even panicked situations. Margat Singer
was actually arrested in nineteen fourteen for her book, but
also for her articles in The New York Call that
covered topics of sex, birth control, and STIs for so
many people who desperately need that information yep.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
And later in nineteen sixty, after the debut of the
Playboy magazine, which is a whole different conversation, the magazine
featured its Advisor column, offering advice not only on sex, relationships,
and life as well. And by the way, according to
a Vice article and a podcast released by iHeart and
Crooked Media titled Stifft, the first ever erotic magazine for

(37:24):
women was published in nineteen seventy three by the same
dude who started Penthouse, Bob Guccioni, which was titled Viva,
and according to that article, they quote paired feminist writing
from women like Betty Friedan and Erica Jong, and stories
on anti rape groups and female circumcision, with full frontal

(37:45):
male nudity and frank sex advice as the first erotic
women's magazine, and embodied the fight to push forth the
conversation about women's sexuality amid the patriarchal influence of the decade.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
And in that article is as including the actual creator,
Bob Guccione, who we know is.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Interesting.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
And though it was acceptable for with gay magazines at
the time to talk openly about sex and relationships, it
wasn't so much for ladies magazines. It took a little
while later for the first one to pop up in
nineteen sixty five in the Cosmo magazine the then editor
in chief Helen Gurley Brown, which she has a really

(38:29):
great quote about why wouldn't every woman want to be
a feminist? Which I was like, yes, come on, now,
she may have been one of our people's, kind of
a white woman of our people's, but you know what
I mean. But she was the then editor in chief,
and she revamped the magazine from being geared toward housewives
to more so single career ladies and published an article

(38:53):
on birth control pills in her first credited issue of
the magazine.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
So she was ready to go. She was ready to
go talking.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
About all these things. And more magazines started following suit
with articles written by the opposite sex to teach the
other sex how to satisfy or how to keep their
relationships attacked. So oftentimes they would feature men to tell
women whatever the advice was, and then vice versa. For
men's magazines, they would have women come on and give

(39:22):
advice as well, so you know, things happen. Many famous
examples are still talked about today from Dear Abby, which
is more wholesome, but did have questions about relationships that
she would talk about to writers like Candace Bushnell from
Sex and the City fame, who wrote for The New

(39:43):
York Observer in her advice.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
Here's the quote from get Me Giddy dot com, which
is the sexual health related site. Thank you, Samantha for
having me say this. In the late nineties and early
two thousands, less historically raunchy women's magazines began adding sex
to the There are usual topics of coverage in order
to attract more readers. Ladies Home Journal printed its first
behind closed Doors sex column in two thousand and Red

(40:09):
Book began running it sex column Red Hot Sex that
same year. Soon sex wasn't just a topic reserved for
magazines known for their edginess. It was an expected part
of mainstream women's publications. Men's magazines underwent a similar shift,
with magazines like Esquire and GQ, both founded in the
thirties and originally focused on fashion, increasingly covering sex.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
Right. Yeah, So, I.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
Was just really excited that you got to say the
name of that site, get Me Giddy.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Dot com, which some was a really helpful site.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
But I was like, what, And because I can't resist
a good read through of ridiculous things, here's a few

(41:03):
of the worst sex tips Annie already blushing of the
worst sex tips from women's magazines, according to Mackenzie Z. Kennedy,
who blessed us with these quips seven years ago. So
as a seven year old post for Filthy So, here's one.
Bring your lover on your food shopping excursion. View it

(41:25):
as sentual foreplay. You can have a lot of fun
caressing and gently squeezing foods and inhaling their aromas. The
conversation should be entertaining too, And I will say I
guess aie, you had a kind of related thing with food,
so maybe.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
Maybe also look go back to your episodes we did
on the movie Fresh. Sometimes this doesn't work out, oh lord.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
Because they did have all grocery saying, didn't they cute?
I forgot about that. Okay, here's another one. Nick two
fists around a shaft and twist them in opposite directions
as hard as you can under this advice, Kennedy wrote,
this really bad sex tip has been inspiring people to
write about bad sex tips because it's literally telling you

(42:14):
to give your partner an Indian rugburn on the most
sensitive part of his body. I don't think that's comfortable.
The next one is firmly hold the bottom of his
shaft in one hand and slowly push it towards the base.
Imagine you're pushing his penis into his body. So again,

(42:36):
I don't know if it's that effective. Here's another one.
Take a tennis ball and roll it with a slight
pressure between his shoulders and over his butt to help
him release pent up sexual energy. Got to bring a
tennis ball into it.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
I guess you're too.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
Lazy to do anything.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
Smack.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
And then the next one is very softly bite the
skin of his scrotum. I feel like they could go
very wrong, very very wrong. But you knew you maybe
he enjoys it, and it says. And lastly, making him
a snack after sex. It doesn't have to be a
gourmet mill. A simple grilled cheese or milk and cookies
will do.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
A simple grilled cheese or milk and cookies, you know.

Speaker 3 (43:25):
The level of like it just boom down to serve him. Thanks,
and this will make it go make a sandwich woman.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
Oh, I'm so sorry for that. It's true, but it's
essentially that a statement I feel like. So yes, of
course we don't. We're not to get into all of it.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
And I'm sure again, this was seven years ago, so
I can't imagine what else is out there. I wrote
this some of these nouns. Actually, I've heard the shaft
ones just so you know, which I think is quite hilarious.
It's such a romance Roman novel term that is fantastic.
And again, though we just with some of these ridiculous

(44:07):
bits of advice, there is a real concern with some
of the information that is being spread. Although on the
positive side, having popular publications open up conversations about women
learning to enjoy sex or learning to explore sexual desires
is a plus and for a long time unheard of.
It has helped to destigmatize women's sexuality and even taught

(44:29):
some men about women's anatomy that they may not have understood.
Hello Glitterius. But there have been problems as well. According
to one article, some feel that women's magazines aren't celebrating
being sexually open, but rather pushing women to have degrading
sex and calling it empowering. Now, I'm gonna be transparent here.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
This article that I.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
Found written in evmagazine dot com seems as I was
reading it seems to be lead very heavily into the
more like coming back to femininity, and it kept saying
that idea, which seems to be code for like a
conservative media, conservative think tank.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
I do think there's a point here.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
Young girls are given an embellished idea that they're being
told that everyone and every woman enjoy wild sex and
are scared to set boundaries for themselves. So I definitely
think that's a conversation where we don't have enough of that.
We've come so far sometimes to being sexually liberated, which
is amazing to forgetting the part about consent, which we

(45:34):
have talked about previously in Boundaries. That was one of
our book clubs too. Of our book clubs actually, wasn't
it Come as You Are? And the Ace book as well,
because we have not really pounded that into the head
of what is consent? When can you stop? And all
those conversations and being kind of so open to the

(45:54):
idea that we're not communicating to the younger generations of
what that means. So I do think there is some
thought to that, as well as the fact that women
are told this is what's happening, and this we were
all doing this. Like I've heard so many stories of
men asking for threesomes and they don't want necessarily want it,
but being told this is what people do, so they
just go with it, and being uncomfortable with it. So

(46:16):
all of those things, I think it definitely has that point.
So many of the magazines lean into the pleasing a
man idea, so confusing liberation to non stop sexcapades again,
and the fact that you have no choice or you
have no power to say no to any of these
things or to stop, like even if you were enjoying it,

(46:37):
to a certain point and being able to have that communication.
So I think that is a big conversation of that.
But the article I'm referring to here also had an
article titled porn turned me bisexual and ruined my relationship.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
So I feel like that's.

Speaker 3 (46:53):
Very yeah waity and very obvious as well as how
to catch a husband. Oh you know, watch out what
you read. They had some good points. I will not
discredit that there. I would not take everything they said
as right in fact, so just on the notes.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
Yes, for sure. Yeah. So coming back to the original point,
there is misinformation that can happen with sex advice given
from a magazine article. As one writer states in Dame magazine,
a walk through social media can illustrate just how deep
the notion that women aren't big on sex or orgasm runs.
While women fake orgasms, says a common meme, men fake

(47:38):
entire relationships. Other prevalent humor suggests that the best way
to turn a woman on is through house cleaning, unless
a guy our gal does so, naked mopping induced arousal
is pretty unlikely. Stress relief is important, of course, and
if helping the chores or other tasks alleviates it, terrific,
but I've noticed significantly more stress inducing this in the

(47:59):
contact to female sexuality then girlfriends complaining about dirty dishes.
And yes, this is talking about the whole women having
orgasms thing, which we have discussed before at a links
And though this article was written in twenty fifteen, we
are still talking about that and finding that misinformation today.

Speaker 3 (48:19):
I mean men are getting on podcasts saying women don't
have orgasms so or can't have orgasms, that's not biological.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
So you know, we're still having that conversation. Yes, and yeah, as.

Speaker 3 (48:30):
We mentioned before, there's both good and bad when it
comes to the sex relationship bits within magazines, and research
seems to back that up. According to Kristen Mark, who
is a therapist and professor, after doing a short survey
and rethrough of a popular women's magazine, specifically Cosmopolitan, she
concludes these findings suggest that women's magazines such as Cosmo

(48:51):
has potentially mixed effects. The impact is potentially problematic when
women after brief exposure are less likely than those exposed
to the control to believe premarital sex intercourse is risky,
though it doesn't have to be risky use condoms, practice negotiation,
and communicate with your partner and make sure it's consensual.
But the short term impact of COSMO can also be

(49:12):
empowering for women when after brief exposure, they're more likely
than those exposed to the control to believe that women
should be assertive in prioritizing their sexual desires for their
own sake, but not for male partners.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
Yes, and I think it's also important that again, we
have no like, we don't have good sexual education in
this country, and you know, places like Florida are banning
the Dictionary because it has the definition of sex in it.
So if you have something like this, it can be
it can be really like you never hear about it,
and that's kind of it's unfortunate because it can be problematic,

(49:47):
but it is also okay, maybe I can like this thing,
So yeah, I agree, it's sort of a there's pluses
and negatives, and of course if you can't tell yes,
this is very heteronormative. The lack of information and advice
offered to the queer community was very blatant. Going back
to that get megiddy dot com article, they wrote in

(50:11):
the years following the publication made a point to include
more empowering and inclusive sex articles with LGBTQ perspectives and
advice geared toward feminist. Glamour similarly did away with content
focused on what guys think, including a columnist by the
name of Jake, to emphasize sex advice focused on women's empowerment,
and they continue still. The LGBTQ community has been largely

(50:35):
underrepresented in sex advice columns, though some writers have recently
stepped up to fix that. In twenty seventeen, John Paul
JP Brammer started the sex and love advice column O
La Poppy in Out magazine to provide guidance to queer
people who don't have the same access to information about
their sexuality online as straight CIS people. Cecy Blanchard similarly

(50:56):
began her column MTF and DTF to talk about the
little discussed experiences of dating and sex from a trans
woman's perspective.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
Right In research paper titles Narrative Analysis of Sexual Etiquette
and teen Magazines, the authorites other than brief mentions of
masturbation in seventeen, Lesbian Dreams in Mademoiselle, Bisexual Men who
Put their field partners at Risk and Glamour, and one
story in Mademoiselle about a woman trying to save a
gay man from being gay. We found no representations of

(51:27):
homosexuality or masturbation that indicate these could be appropriate expressions
of sexuality. While there's also nothing which condemn these sexual expressions,
their absence could be seen as very limiting or isolating
by young women with these interests. Again note this was
actually written in nineteen ninety eight, So yeah, when I
say some of these are really dated, they are. But

(51:49):
the lack of information is something that should be recognized
and is oftentimes not seen in larger publications. Like we
just talked about the getmigiddy dot com was like a
twenty twenty article. It's not been long and it's still
very unrepresented, and the things that we do see are
specific to queer culture instead of being in the popular publications.
And that article is obviously specific to teen magazines as

(52:12):
it was titled. Like I said, I have read my
fair share of sex and relationship advice from different teen magazines,
which we will delve into in the next episode. And honestly, again,
all this information is a bit overwhelming, with a little
with very little to offer in like all the context,
the way we have to search for things is within itself.

(52:34):
A lot of times they call themselves outs. I will
give them that, like Lamber will call themselves out. Cosmo
has called themselves out. You know, they've really changed their
tone in the last five years, which again it's gonna
be about in the next episode, but for today, we're
going to pause here. And yeah, I have done exactly
what I didn't want to do, make a three part thing.

(52:56):
Apologies y'all, but hey, this is good stuff.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
I like how you say three part shut it.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
I'mdetermined.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
Okay, all right, I'll finally I'm going to finally reveal
the contents of my Ryan Gossling Shrik, and I'm very excited.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Is sitting on this outline taunting me?

Speaker 1 (53:15):
Oh it's chaunting me too, daunting all of us. Well,
if you have any thoughts about this, I mean, we
would love to hear them. I think I might go
flip through some of my I still have some magazines. Oh,
just see what's in there.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
I have to find some quizzes from those old school magazines,
because there's some I remember taking those, like what kind
of man are you supposed to be?

Speaker 2 (53:38):
With all those? I gotta find one of those.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
Oh yeah, I think the old Horo scipts could be fun.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
Yeah, those like like fashion like flow chart things.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
Yes, color palettes.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
Yeah, we'll have to come back maybe for a Monday mini.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
Not not not part beautiful.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
Yes, yes, I will help you with this well. Listeners,
If you have any thoughts about any of that, or like, yes,
any old magazines you want to share or magazine memories
you want to share, please let us know. You can
email us at Stuff Media, Momstuff at iHeartMedia dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast,
or on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff I've Never told you.

(54:18):
We have a tea public store, and we have a
book we can get wherever you get your books. Thanks
as always to our super producer Christina or Excited to
producer My and our contributor Joey.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
Thanks to you for listening. Stuff Never told you the
production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,
you can check out their Heart Radio, Apple podcast, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows

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