SMNTY Interviews: Maria Diez

Maria Diez of the podcast When You're Invisible joins us to talk about the power of working class women and women of color, learning more about those closest to you, and why the question 'when do you feel invisible' is so powerful.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steff
I'll Never told you, a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
And today we are so thrilled.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
To be joined by Maria Diaz, the host of the
podcast When You're Invisible. Thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Oh my gosh, thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yes, our contributor on the show, Joey, who's been on
the show, sent your name our way and we were
so excited to talk to you. There's a lot of
overlap and what you talk about what we talk about.
So could you introduce yourself to our audience please?

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
So.

Speaker 4 (00:51):
I'm Maria Fernandaleez, but I go by Maria for folks
who can't roll their urs and I like a little
bit about me. So I a live in New York City.
I'm an artist along with a podcaster. I was originally
an actor slash, I.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Am an actor? Why originally still am?

Speaker 4 (01:13):
And I actually was an iHeart Next Up fellow and
that's how I found podcasting during the pandemic, because I
was already doing it on my Instagram like I was.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
My dad happens to be a.

Speaker 4 (01:24):
Microbiologist who like works with the CDC and so I
was like talking to him about like what is science
and like what about all these things that we're using
for the vaccine, Like how does this work? And then
I was talking to my brother about what was happening
politically during that time and like how to break that down.
So my friend, my sweet angel friend, was like, this

(01:45):
sounds something like something you would like to do. So
shout out to next Up who taught me how to podcast.
And then at the end we all our shows, we
pitch and we join the Hurt family. And then I've
had the pleasure of getting to build when You're Invisible

(02:05):
with an incredible team for season one and now season two.
Last season we also won a Signal Award and where
we be nominated.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
So it's really cool. It's like a cool world.

Speaker 4 (02:17):
And I When You're Invisible is my love letter to
the working class and immigrants and folks who are other
in an American Western society because I'm first gen. I'm
a first gen Latina who grew up like yeah, like
we didn't have much growing up, and then my parents
got to become middle class and we always had an

(02:37):
immigrant community or we moved around a lot too, So
like I grew up in like midwestern Minnesota, and then
my parents are now in Georgia, but I'm like from
upstate New York, and so it was just kind of
a hodgepodge of things with like deep roots still in Mexico.
So for me, it was really important to be having
conversations with like everyday people and the people who inspired

(02:58):
me to be who I am and to connect with others.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
And I also very much.

Speaker 4 (03:04):
Was raised by a tribe of really incredible women as well,
who were not afraid to both like challenge the norm
and then also have a lot of the norm embedded
in them, and so like being the first and the
oldest grandkid and stuff like that, and learning ropes that
like I was not given originally. And so for me

(03:25):
it was like really important to uplift voices who have
shown me a different way or who have lived life differently,
while still also being like, how do you make it
through everyday life when you're not a celebrity, when you
don't have all these means and resources afforded to you
and make life beautiful regardless of.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, that's I love that so much. I'm so glad
that next up you came through through next step that's amazing.
On your second season, We're going to talk about this more,
but I love how you have brought your family into
these conversations and had conversations with your family.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
But yeah, that's a good segue into you kind of
talked about it. But can you give us an overview
of what the podcast is?

Speaker 2 (04:13):
What's the Yeah, totally.

Speaker 4 (04:15):
So it's definitely talking to everyday people, like the lifeblood.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Of our country in many ways.

Speaker 4 (04:22):
And it starts off, like the whole series starts off
with my friend from the Columbia University Mail Center, who
like literally helped me see life in a completely different way,
Like he kept me from dropping out when I was
like an average public school kid going to this slite

(04:44):
university on like an almost full ride.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Being like how do I do anything?

Speaker 4 (04:49):
And incredible conversations with my classmates, of course, but things
that I'd never faced in my life before, and also
dealing with it in theory versus and like all of
these different things. And my friend was the one who
was kind of like, so, do you think this place
is hard because it's not the right place for you?

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Or is it hard.

Speaker 4 (05:10):
Because it's just you've never experienced anything like it? And
can you wait it out?

Speaker 5 (05:14):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (05:15):
And like who are you doing this for? Is it
for yourself? And who else are you elevating with this opportunity?

Speaker 2 (05:23):
And he had a beautiful way of like every.

Speaker 4 (05:25):
Day I would ask him like, how are you doing
when I'd see him, and he'd be like, I'm great.
I'm like amazing, Why are you great? And He's like, uh,
I just day am like I woke up today. And
it was such an incredible perspective on life, and he
and the rest of the workers at the mail center
like literally uplifted all the students, Like there are so

(05:46):
many of us who became friends with them, and they
just had an incredible way of just being like, even
if you only see us for five minutes today, how
do we make your day better? How do you feel
seen in your day? And I think it spurred a
lot of my thoughts in this along with just like
people who've gotten to know like I in the first season,

(06:09):
like I talked to my friend Kate, who she's an
incredible activist and worker with kids who stutter, and she
has a really pronounced stutter, and so we talk about
like what it's like to be perceived as like slow
or like when your people don't have patience for you,
and also what it's like to date as a woman

(06:29):
who has something so quote unquote defective upfront, and when
what version of your authentic self are you portraying? And
so like different things like that. In this season, we
start with my brother. Episode one is out and it's
with my brother who is a community organizer, and how
he viewed life differently than I viewed life growing up,

(06:52):
and like how our paths led to what we do
and how I think Like his episode is not to
bring up the election, but is beautifully timed in a
way of like, Okay, what now and what are the
ways we can do little changes? And I think that's
true about this particular season is we'll talk to people
we talk to everyday people and people whose identities intersect

(07:14):
in very specific ways. Like we have a trans Latino
boy in Arizona who's like we talk about like it
is what it's like to look at the world through
a youth perspective, along with like the intersection of being
Latino and trans and in a red state, like and
yet he has so much joy. And then my friend Yahira,

(07:37):
who is who was a teen mom and she's a
Latina and all of the stereotypes that that carried, and
her mentality of being able to be like, you know what,
I can see how you are limiting me, but I'm
not going to limit myself and like the absolute strength
she has in that, and then yeah, and just like
a variety of people and just talking about what has

(07:59):
led that to their place in life right now, what
are their hopes and dreams. When do they feel seen
and when do they feel invisible? Because I think sometimes
we're not upfront about how other people's bias and our
own bias affect how we're able to be in connection,
community and conversation with each other, and like, yeah, big

(08:22):
upfront about I had preconceived notions about this conversation, or
like I feel really nervous to talk about this myself
because I grew up this way, Like with Yahira, I'm like,
I grew up with like don't get pregnant, sex before marriage?

Speaker 2 (08:36):
What the heck is a?

Speaker 4 (08:39):
And like not okay, right, Like there were things like
that where I had to shed that for myself and
then thinking about it in context with a teen mom,
or like we talked to West Virginia coal miners in
the podcast, and I was like, I totally came in
not knowing anything about like your life or what you
do other than the research that I'd done, and I
still assumed they were going to be ignorant or you know, conservative,

(09:02):
or have a problem with me being a woman or Latina.
And they were like the nicest humans, and they were like, yeah,
like it's all about us all being willing to be like,
I'm going to be ignorant in some way. He's like
one of them was like, I'm sure I'm ignorant to you,
and I'm like, well it goes.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
It's a two way street.

Speaker 4 (09:22):
So being really upfront about all of those things happening
internally with ourselves and being willing to have that in
conversation with people who might be incredibly different than me
at least, and just working through that. So that's what
the podcast is in many ways.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
You have so many great guests and so many great stories, yeah,
that have come out of it, so many great conversations.
Of the things that you're a big champion of is
talking about working class women, highlighting and celebrating yeah, woman
of color in this space. Can you talk about why

(10:12):
that is such an important conversation.

Speaker 4 (10:14):
Yeah, I think, oh so many things. I think the
way we look at diversity is really interesting right now.
Like I think there was like such a push to
have us all in the space, and then there was
a feeling that like if you weren't this type of
this version of diversity, like where do you fit? And

(10:37):
I think like that is a fascinating conversation within itself,
and for me, it's really important to be like we
are all so diverse even within our specific monolith right
of like Latina Latino I means so much and is
so diverse, and yet sometimes we are given a cookie
cutter version. I particularly think, like so much expectations lie

(11:05):
on us, like as women and as women of color
of like not only like the things you grew up
with familiarly, like I think as a particular sector of that,
as like firshin Mexican American, in a very specific kind
of Mexican community, Like there was a lot of expectations
of like you are the first, you have to be successful,

(11:28):
you have to be strong, you have to support the family.
There's like a lot of things where I think like
women of color end up beingcoming like very superhuman and
yet we are incredibly human and so allowing us to
be like, yeah, we can be incredibly strong and yet
also be allowed to be tired of this and also

(11:48):
not nowhere to go or be like you all let
me dout, and just being giving space to our full
humanity and being seen as a person and celebrating our
personhood not necessarily our superhuman elements, but our full personhood
is really important to me.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
And working class to women.

Speaker 4 (12:06):
Just like working class people, but working class women like
hold down the fort in so many ways, Like that
was my mom, Like while my dad was going to school,
she was working like three jobs, Lorana Daycare, was cleaning
people's houses, was being a personal assistant in order to make.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Sure we could survive.

Speaker 4 (12:27):
And to me, those are the stories in which, like
when you can make it through really tough situations, there's
like an incredible spirit and mentality in that. And I think,
like I think of all the like the women of
color and the moms who raise us, and like, yeah,
the difficult things that we don't talk about as well,

(12:50):
which is something for me that I'm also trying to
work through. Is like I think, in culturally speaking, there's
a lot of things you don't talk about so breaking
down that too, of like there's so much solidarity and
love and connection we can have through this, through these
conversations and championing these women and being like, can I
ask you all these questions and see how you're feeling,

(13:11):
how you're sitting with and what tools we can work
with together, or like what can we learn from together?

Speaker 2 (13:17):
Because I just think we go unseen.

Speaker 4 (13:18):
Like I see so many like amazing diverse women, and
most of the time we see their success stories, we
see the brilliance of their lives, and we don't think
about all the women who help raise them up to
that level, who are like their mates, they're nannies, they're
you know, whoever came through and just like for me,

(13:40):
they are like your mentors can be anywhere and it
can be a split second in a moment, and I
think women of color and working class women do that
so beautifully for the people around them and their families
and never get flowers, never get vacations in the same
way maybe self care days, And to me, it's just

(14:02):
so important to be like, let's celebrate them and let's
find a way to give them that and also come
to a place where it's like we can have more
honest conversations about it all.

Speaker 5 (14:13):
Speaking of which, Yeah, listening to your episode with your
parents was such a genuinely like delightful episode. But I
really love obviously it's a signature part of your shows
as well as the name of your show when you
ask the questions such as when do you feel invisible?
And you actually asked you know your parents that your

(14:34):
mom's answer was so heartfelt and I just kept back,
Oh my god, because not only did she talk about, yes,
these are my strengths, but those are the times that
I felt invisible, even to your dad, you know, like
she had that moment like it was such a beautiful question.
But why do you think this specific question is so important?

Speaker 4 (14:51):
Ooh, There's a couple of things. I think it's one
of the deepest things we all want is to be seen.
And I think it's like when we do not feel
seen is some of our darkest moments. And I think,
like I think about all the research coming out or
like people constantly being like people are more lonely than ever.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
And so it was.

Speaker 4 (15:17):
It was a question that I wanted to start to
ask to hear what exactly is it that people felt
was missing almost so it's like you can see the
good and like be like, Okay, when do you feel visible?
These are the good things, and then where is it lacking?
I also find that everybody has a different answer to
that question, and it's.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Such a beautiful way.

Speaker 4 (15:40):
It's always taught me to think about it in different ways,
like and that it will surprise you, like my mom's
answer surprised me in certain ways and is also so
deeply sincere to her. And I think the thing is like,
we don't often get to talk about that, Like I.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Think we.

Speaker 4 (16:03):
Are quick to sometimes move through our anxiety and depression
or the anxiousness. We don't always sit in the sadness
or the loneliness or the question of like, yeah, why
don't I feel taken care of? What am I missing?
Why don't I feel seen? What makes me feel invisible?

(16:25):
That was really moving to me, And then some people
were like, well, it depends on how you see invisibility.
Sometimes I see it as a superpower that like you
don't perceive me, and I can walk through the world
however I want. And there's certain things like that where
I was like, oh, I would have never thought of
that question that way. But yeah, I think it's like
there's a lot less people who do things out of malice,

(16:46):
I think.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
But what happens is.

Speaker 4 (16:49):
We just don't see each other. It's like we are
invisible to each other. And that I think is a
bigger factor personally to our loneliness than malice itself. Like
people lead with less maliciousness than they do of just
like I just didn't notice, or I didn't know, or
I was too involved. That makes the question particularly interesting

(17:11):
to me.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
And you also did an episode with your grandmother, Yes, yes,
that your mom was involved with and so it was
a multi generational episode that seemed to really like you
left with a lot of thoughts.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Yeah, oh my.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
God, So can you talk You talked about a lot
of big topics. Can you discuss that?

Speaker 4 (17:33):
Yeah, so that's gonna be our season finale this season,
so you all, guys, all of you get a taste
of it. But Maya Willa is like such a force
in my life. Like we she grew up living with
three of her children. She has four kids, and she
grew up like bouncing from three different houses, including ours,

(17:55):
so like three to six months out of the year
she'd live with us. So she was always like my
best friend in many ways, and she's like so adorable.
She's tiny, like at this point, probably like four to eight,
and like is always dressed in the nines, like always
has Like you'll see her with a little hair brush,
curling her little hair and then she'll take it out,

(18:17):
brush it, make sure it's perfect, and like has to
put on makeup.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
And she's she's turning ninety in.

Speaker 4 (18:24):
June, and I'm like, this is so much effort and
it's incredible.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
But it was interesting because.

Speaker 4 (18:32):
When I hit puberty, our relationship shifted and it became
so oriented on.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
Looks and on whether I.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
Was being ladylike and on like how everything could be
reflected or seen by the people around me. Like we
always had in common that we were like hilarious and fiery,
but like we'll banter till like the sun comes up
kind of. And she's the kind of person where it's like,
you know, if I'm like come do this thing, or

(19:04):
like no, you can't have that piece of cake, She'll
be like go to hell, right, Like it's that level
of just like I can talk to you, however, and
we won't take it personally in certain ways, and so
there's that freshness of it, but then there is like
so much like we're automatically hitting puberty. There started to
become a different level of our relationship where suddenly there

(19:25):
were expectations on me as a woman and how I
was going to carry this legacy or how I was
a reflection or how it was important to be perceived
by men, and that I saw her emulate in certain
ways and that she also loves, like like my hair
is what it is like whatever. I run around in pants,
like no makeup most days, and like, you know, to

(19:47):
my grandmother it would be like, if you're gonna wear pants,
they should be pink and flowy or like you know,
like things need to like be hyper feminine. And so
it was such a clash of generations that started. And
so the podcast for me was actually an opportunity to.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
Be like why is that?

Speaker 4 (20:06):
And like do you actually care about being dressed up?

Speaker 2 (20:10):
And like also we talk about sex on the podcast,
and like that was.

Speaker 4 (20:16):
Completely her and I was so impressed because she would never,
like my my grandmother never talks about really sex, Like
she likes Nora Roberts books, but.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
She won't admit that she likes Roberts books. She's like,
I don't know what you're talking about. I don't have
any Miths.

Speaker 4 (20:33):
She loves Bridgerton, but she won't watch Bridgerton in front
of anyone else, like things like that, Like it's so like, no,
it's fine, and you know, and definitely grew up with
like a Mexican Catholic background of like sex before marriage
is a heck now and if you are that better
would be the person you're gonna marry, right, and you know,

(20:54):
and growing up with that and then also the expectations
of like also a different culture and even sexuality were
things we didn't really like fully talk about because I
was like, you grew up in a culture that's a
little bit delayed along with generationally being different. And it
was such an interesting conversation where she was just like

(21:15):
she was like, I mean, I just wish you didn't
have sex with more than two people. And I was
like what, Like she's like, because I was like, what
are the difference generationally that you see? And she's like,
I mean, you guys have more sex. She called it
like having relations. She's like, you guys have relations And
I was like what, And she's like, you know, you
have with multiple people, and I was like, oh, oh

(21:38):
my god, we're going to go here. And it truly
was just the format of a podcast that allowed her
to have this liberty of like, Okay, I'm going to
tell you the exact thing that I think is the
most difficult thing.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
For me to process.

Speaker 4 (21:52):
But then like we also got to like go through
conversations of like also like what it was like growing
up during that time, and what it was like as
a woman to work for the first time, and like
that she didn't get paid directly, but she was helping
support her family and stuff like that, and that was
so interesting as well. And then along with a conversation

(22:15):
about love and death in your old age and like
my Awoila's best friend is her her late brother's wife,
and like how they've become each other's There's a really
beautiful thing that my mom says in the episode that

(22:36):
my grandmother is her my aunt's brain, and my aunt
is my grandmother's legs. That they've become such a team,
and I see how they interact with each other, and
I'm like, no one understands each other as well as
they do, not just because of the life they carry together.
But also what they're experiencing right now. Yeah, and just

(23:00):
talking about what it's like to be like perceived as
like adorable and old, and like whether or not you're
listened to in that way and whether or not you're
seen in that like beyond that too. And so that
was like an incredible conversation for me to be like,
who is the woman who raised me? Looking at her
as a person and giving her the opportunity to ask

(23:20):
me whatever she wants to ask me as well, And
I think, yeah, we had conversations we really truly would
not have had had I not like invited her to
do this, and then her being like, you know what,
I'm just gonna go for.

Speaker 5 (23:36):
It, which I love, you know what? That again, that
episode which I'm really looking forward to. I try to
find that one because I know you hinted at it
is like I need to hear what a Boila has
to say. I need to say with your family, with

(24:00):
your parents, you have such amazing, like very personal episodes
and not only are you talking about your experiences and
being able to talk back and forth about things that
you've learned or giving lessons to learn, you kind of
like I loved your parents complimenting you about like being
so proud of your accomplishments. It was really cute, and
your brother and talking about how that prow they were
to see that, and then hearing this personal touch about

(24:22):
like you know, I wish you didn't do this, but
if we have to, this is what I will allow
you to be or whatever whatnot, and all of these
such personal episodes. What is your reaction going back and
looking at these very much out there episodes with these
people that you've known all your life but have the
same new level of condition.

Speaker 4 (24:43):
I it's kind of crazy, Like it's nice to go
back and revisit. And my parents have revisited their episode
fun Fact too, I love it. They're like, oh my gosh,
Like they're like we cried when we heard it.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
It's very cute.

Speaker 4 (24:59):
It's so it was also really magical, Like those moments
are really magical. To get to introduce my parents, my
brother and Maauela to like this is my work, and
like seeing what it looks like from the inside. It's
so cute, like all of them in studio with their
mics and like being like ooh what now, So like

(25:23):
that is a really odd moment because like, yeah, we've
to be like, yeah, your daughter gets to be a
creative and like my like that is a huge gift.
And going back to listen to them is incredible because
I get to hear their voice differently. I think I
get to hear new things and remember things a little differently,

(25:43):
and it it has helped our relationships even like I
think it's it's really given us all new perspectives of
each other, right, and again like giving them insight of
like being like, oh, that was the conversation we walked
into and this is the episode that came out. Like
those are two different things because it is an edited
format with my thoughts in between, So there is that

(26:08):
like and also it makes me excited for our future
that it's like if you were willing to do this
with me, and we were willing to be brave together
of sharing these personal moments together, that like just gives
me a lot of hope for our relationships moving forward.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
But also of like.

Speaker 4 (26:30):
Trying to practice what I try and share in the
podcast of like here here I am being incredibly vulnerable
because I'm talking to people who know me extremely well
and I'm actually not sure what's going to come out
of their mouth right now, you're going to tell yeah, exactly,
and then I'm going to be like, well, my team,
like my my producer is going to have to listen

(26:51):
to this anyway, like.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
Someone's gonna new no on a new level. Or if
we have an engineer in the work room, someone's gonna.

Speaker 5 (27:00):
Have to warn and be like before warned, you get
a little time.

Speaker 4 (27:03):
Oh my gosh, Like it was really funny, like having
my Aboila in in studio. We were in Atlanta, and
it was so funny because our engineer who was there
was like cracking up and making faces at all the
conversations and all the things she was saying. And I
was like, oh, yes, like this is and but that's
also like I love that. I love that, Like I

(27:24):
want us to, like all of us to take away
from this like of like oh, they're being really vulnerable
or like oh, they're really being willing to be bold
in this, and like, hey, maybe that'll inspire me to
like be a little bolder with my family. And it
does like for me, like my Aboila. After our conversation,
literally afterwards, we went and got lunch together and she
starts going like, so the person you're dating or having

(27:47):
sex with Now, how are they treating you?

Speaker 5 (27:50):
Like?

Speaker 2 (27:52):
This was yes, exactly, it was.

Speaker 4 (27:55):
She's you know, she's like, I don't know exactly what
this is right now, so just fill me in. And
I was like, wow, this woman is like from an
older generation willing to be like.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
Is it dating? Is it not dating? Is it?

Speaker 4 (28:07):
What other version of this should I learn?

Speaker 2 (28:10):
How to say?

Speaker 5 (28:11):
Have you taught her situationship yet?

Speaker 4 (28:12):
Like like that's so she she's learning, she's learning. She's like,
I'm trying to remember, like if there's a word in
Spanish for situationship, I'm gonna have to ask my cousins
because like sometimes they teach her the English version and
then she's like okay, Like when when my cousin taught
her bachotta from like Carol G and Becky G.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
They have this called bota and she was like, what
the heck is that?

Speaker 4 (28:40):
Because it's it's like taking the word gen turning it
into a spanishized word, which is like basically being a
boss is like the one word for it. And she
was like what And my cousin was like, say, you're
a bachotta and she's like.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
And then she like did.

Speaker 6 (28:58):
So we're like slowly getting that we're slowly getting there.
I think she'll be able to say like situationship soon.
But it was very funny. It was so cute, and
I was like, I you know, and then she's like
are you happy? Are you okay?

Speaker 4 (29:12):
Because I think like the other thing generationally between me
and Mayouela is like success looks a very particular way
to her, so to not emulate what she knows socially
to be success, it's like getting used to like, Okay,

(29:33):
I'm going to trust that you are happy and okay
because you're not married by now and you don't have
kids right now, and like, but your jobs are also weird,
so like I don't understand you don't have a promotion
like right like she I remember the day she was like,
you're not going to be a lawyer. I'm so sad,
like because like lawyer, doctor, accountant, housewife, those were the

(29:59):
things that she knew women could do right like now
my world, and so it's so weird. It was really
interesting to also have a moment with her of like
I was like, do you trust me me when I
say that I'm happy and her being like I think so,

(30:20):
and being like okay, Okay, we're getting somewhere, because like
there used to be the judgment of like, so when
are these things happening?

Speaker 3 (30:27):
Right?

Speaker 2 (30:28):
Or like I'm worried, I'm worried about.

Speaker 4 (30:30):
You, and I'm like, but why if I haven't given
you an indication to be worried? And so like learning
that and being like in that dance between of like
what does she think of what women a woman's life
should look like and my life should look like so
that she doesn't have to worry and like what life
actually has to offer?

Speaker 6 (30:50):
Right?

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, I love that. I mean it's such a great
example of why that question when did you feel invisible?
Is so powerful and why the podcasting, like doing it
through a podcast is really effective because sometimes people just
need the like like going onto a podcast feels different

(31:17):
than just like talking about it. Yeah, in your family.
I remember once I had to do some project for
school and it was like interview a parent, and my
dad was like never, But then I started to just
like read the questions out loud, and sure enough he
wanted to answer the questions. He like actually was looking
for the excuse almost like oh no, I want I

(31:37):
do want to talk. I do have thoughts about that,
and it did like help move our relationship forward, and
I learned a lot from him from that, like one
like school project I did that I never knew. So
it is amazing when you sit down with somebody and
you're just like, let's talk about these things, yeah, talk

(31:59):
about and see these generational differences. I think that's so
powerful totally.

Speaker 4 (32:05):
It's really like to me, I'm like, also, like, my
grandmother has gone through a lot of hardship and she's
a very smiley human and so I was like, whoa
to know the depth of it too, and also the
way in which, like she could.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
Have been a business woman, she just was too scared.

Speaker 4 (32:22):
And I was like, oh, I wouldn't have thought of
that for this woman who's like so like loving and
outgoing in many ways. But it's like she was like,
I'm a widow of four kids with four kids at
the age of thirty, like, and she was like, I'm
not going to go out and risks my livelihood in

(32:43):
this way. And so it was like interesting to be like, oh,
I didn't know that. I didn't know that she had
the opportunity to not be a worker like as in
like someone had been like you know.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
And she talks about this.

Speaker 4 (32:54):
She worked at a jewelry store and the vendors were like, Rosita, like,
you're so good at this. If you wanted to put
up your own shop, we would all sell to you
and we would help you. And she was like too
terrified to do it. And so to me, I was like, oh,
I had no idea that was a chapter in her life.
She's always been, you know, a grandma to me and

(33:16):
like a family woman and a widower. And to be like, oh, oh,
what did you say no to to get here is
really interesting and like what would your life be like
had you not? Or like people proposed, Like there was
a family friend who proposed to her after his wife
died to like give her and her kids the pension,

(33:40):
but in that time they didn't live in the same city,
and the like norm was she would move her and
her kids to go live with him, and she was like,
I'm not going to do that, And so she stayed
working like six days, seven days a week for like
the full day and do doing like really crazy odd

(34:01):
hours because she was like, I don't it don't feel
comfortable moving my kids again to a new place and
thinking about those things. But just being like, oh, your
life could have turned out so differently, and I had
no idea that that was a possibility in your life. Yeah,
so like the things you learn for sure of the
people you love that you were like.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
What, I didn't know that?

Speaker 4 (34:25):
Yeah, it's so so real.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
It is.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
And going back to what you were talking about earlier,
of working class women and women of color, it's just
so much of that work is thankless, is invisible, yell
is not appreciated. But if we would not be here
without the people who raised us or who did this.

(34:49):
And then when you get older and you think, like
you ask these questions and you find out, oh, I
didn't know all of this stuff about this person in
my life.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah astounding.

Speaker 4 (35:02):
Yeah, it truly is. And I think like that's true
about us all in many ways. And I think that's
the thing is like I think we're so used to
with social media and everything as like quick, like the
lacquered version, the like picture perfect version, or the quick

(35:23):
glimpse of that person rather than the fullness.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
And I don't know.

Speaker 4 (35:27):
If we I'm guilty of this, is like I don't
always ask the right questions when I'm not like in
front of someone and so kind of learning how to
rewire a little bit, to rethink of that and consider that.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
But yeah, like even like I was in nanny for
a while.

Speaker 4 (35:44):
The other thing too is like I've done a million
odd jobs, like like yeah right, yeah right, and like
so being a nanny and like kind of being in
these homes and then also being around other nannies and
then being like I have an episode in season one
which is like with my friend Anisia who's a personal

(36:04):
chef and nanny and she's black first gen as well,
from a Nigerian family. But like she and I were
talking about it, it's like there's a hierarchy within that.
And then like you also think about like all these
women who are raising kids and who are teaching these
kids second languages, third languages, but because they're not you know,

(36:24):
educated with the university degree, will not get that there's
the same credit as the nanny who does have all
of that background and stuff like that. And you're just like, WHOA,
But these are the people who like not only raise
their own kids or take time to not raise their kids,
but you know, are raising multiple next generations. And I

(36:45):
think the other thing that I really love about cultures
that aren't like necessarily white American culture, of mainstream culture personally,
is that there's such an emphasis on community, which can
be obnoxious sometimes, like speaking from my large family, sometimes
you're like, I don't need everybody to know my business.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
Then you learn how to work through that.

Speaker 4 (37:08):
But there's also an element of like we all raise
each other, right, And I think, like that's what I'm
hoping too with like also celebrating women and women of
color is like we all raise each other and reminding
each other of that right, and that like a lot
of us come from those kinds of cultures, and so
it becomes automatic, but it's not always recognized from a

(37:31):
larger lens or like a lens from necessarily what we
see in this country, right. You know.

Speaker 5 (37:50):
One of the things I think is so important with
your podcasts and podcast like hours in general when it
talks about your sectionality and talking about people of color
or marginal communities, is talking about like trying to acclimate
to where we're at in the United States, but at
the same time trying to preserve our culture as well
truly understanding our identity. You know, again, going back to

(38:13):
that one episode, because I just really loved y'all talk
about being indigenous and talking about what that meant for
y'all even though you can be white passing and having
that balance in wanting to yes, you do want to
be a part of a culture that you're involved in,
but at the same time, you also know it's important
to preserve where you came from, who you are, your

(38:34):
identity as well. How do you think podcasts like this
can really open up that conversation?

Speaker 4 (38:41):
Ooh yeah, so many ways. I think one, just talking
about things is so important, right because like I think
we can go on autopilot, or when we're surrounded by
something that might not be one of our cultures, or
if you come from a culture and you don't recognize
the other cultures around you, right, Like, there's so many
levels in which having it in the ether and so

(39:02):
accessible and so consistent, like I think is so important
because I think it's like when we don't get to
sit down and have conversations with people in front of us,
like these conversation through our ears, like through our headphones
is one way we get to do that and like
be like it. Actually, I think podcasting is such a
beautiful medium because it provides a little bit of a

(39:24):
safety of like, oh, if I have a personal reaction
to that, I can sit with that alone and don't
have the element of like, oh, suddenly I'm gonna be embarrassed,
or like, oh I didn't know that. Maybe I'm want
to go research that now, but I don't have to
show that I'm doing that, right, because I think shame
and embarrassment is like such a crazy thing in our

(39:45):
culture especially.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
It's like either we embrace it like crazy, or it's
like I didn't I didn't know. I knew that.

Speaker 4 (39:50):
I knew that, right, And at least I'm guilty of that.
I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna write that down for later, right.
And So I think like podcasting and shows like this
is such a beautiful way of like giving space for
that and privacy for that, which is so cool while
it still is engagement. And then to what I love

(40:12):
is like getting to know the hosts and being like
now I'm attached to a person.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
It might be very different than me.

Speaker 4 (40:20):
Right, but wow, now I get to attach to this
person and get to learn a little more. And then
also I think like care and love are such powerful
tools and compassion, so podcasting just breaks down barriers in
that way to get to know people who you may
not have met or would know of or know how
to even start thinking about them or their cultural lens otherwise.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.

Speaker 5 (40:47):
And yeah, talking about being personal, you are very vulnerable
with your audience and listeners and it's really difficult sometimes
to do all of that. Being vulnerable really sucks.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
Appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Has it done?

Speaker 5 (41:03):
Is what is the action that you get from people
in your personal life, like your family when they hear
these such vulnerable moments from you and also from your listeners.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
Oh, it can be a mixed bag sometimes. I think.

Speaker 4 (41:18):
I don't know about you, guys, but my pulse also
accelerate sometimes when I'm like, I'm being really vulnerable and
now I'm gonna put it out there because I.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Think this is the right decide.

Speaker 4 (41:28):
But I think one a lot of people have been
really grateful for it and will be like, oh my god,
I feel the same way too about that, or like,
oh my god, I hate this this thing too, or
like that that was funny, like people have been really
transparent about that, or like being like hey, people have
like asked for more episodes and I'm like, I really

(41:48):
want to. I'm like, this is the dream is to
you know, unlock the season three.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
But like people have been like very much like, oh
my god, this.

Speaker 4 (41:57):
I didn't realize I would connect with this person like
they have this and I have this. Like people when
they talk like again, like whether it's like disabilities, whether
visible or invisible, or neurodiversity or something like, people are like.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
Oh my gosh, can you do this or can you
talk about this?

Speaker 4 (42:15):
I'm so excited because like this felt the closest thing
that I've heard that is to me, that is like me.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
And so that has been a reaction.

Speaker 4 (42:26):
People have since sometimes thought I was too nice, Like
there's one episode in specific they were like, I think
you could have been a little meaner on this particular.
So like, you know, people are going to give their
thoughts too, and that's what I want, Like I'm inviting
conversation back and like, but it is funny to hear.

(42:48):
But people are usually really supportive, which I've I feel
really lucky that I've mostly experienced that. I had one
cousin who got mad at me out of a lot
of love, out of a lot of love, Like he
was just like, why didn't you share this with me sooner,
like I'll say it on here I'm by and we

(43:13):
talk about it with my parents, but a lot of
my family is it's not an open conversation because.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
Mexican Catholic.

Speaker 4 (43:23):
We're just at the place where where Mexico's been having
pride parades and stuff like that. Like I've been in
conversations where people are like I just don't understand by
people like I totally get the gay thing, I just
don't understand by like that doesn't make sense to me.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
So I've been in.

Speaker 4 (43:42):
Rooms where it's like people I love are just not
quite there yet to have the conversation and so like,
But I talk about it with my parents because like
it was also a hard thing to be Like my
mom was like, don't tell your family, and so to
be in that space. But my cut in, one of
my cousins who speaks English, listens to my podcast and

(44:04):
he was like, why the heck did would you not
tell me that? And we're like really close, and I
was like, to be honest, I just didn't know. I
didn't know, and we haven't had the opportunity to like
have it come up naturally.

Speaker 5 (44:15):
Right, I'm not going to text You'm like, by.

Speaker 3 (44:18):
The way, by the way, yeah, you know, and so
all of that, and like there are stereotypes right of
like what that means as a woman and stuff, and
so I was like, I also wasn't entirely ready to
have that conversation with you, but then I totally forgot that.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
I didn't realize you were listening.

Speaker 4 (44:39):
And so there are moments where you're like, oh shoot,
or there's moments where you have to be brave, Like
there's moments where I get nervous at my my guests
aren't going to love their episode.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
Like I'm like, as.

Speaker 4 (44:51):
Since I am a flawed person with my own bias
and perceptions, Like I'm sometimes like, here's.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
This piece that's about you. Please you like it right.

Speaker 4 (45:02):
Because I'm trying to do you justice, but I might not,
And I think that's always like the scary thing to
me too, is like I might not, and then I'm
just like I try my best and hopefully we'll figure
this out. It hasn't happened yet where someone has been
like disappointed by their episode at all, but me myself,
because there's so much vulnerability and so much personal stuff

(45:24):
in it that I'm like sometimes I'm just like, I
really hope you feel taken care of in this episode.

Speaker 5 (45:30):
No, yeah, we are. We are that saying where like,
oh no, if so and so listens, we're screwed.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
Yeah, we have a lot.

Speaker 5 (45:38):
We have a big conversation coming up. Why they take
a listen and finding out different people who are listening.

Speaker 4 (45:43):
You're like, oh, oh yeah, literally in one of your episodes,
You're like, some people in my personal life will probably
think I'm talking about them, But I'm.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
Like, that's a really good disclaimer.

Speaker 5 (45:55):
This is not about you, Jane. Wait, I do actually,
but yeah, that is one of those fears that you're like,
oh yeah, how much am I hearing?

Speaker 2 (46:09):
Right? I forget people to.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
Take it into account too, because I remember once we
were at we were speaking at a conference and somebody
asked us a question that was essentially like because Samantha
and I when we first started working together, it was
like Trauma miniseries where we were being very vulnerable, and
she was asking like, how because this isn't just going
to impact you if it gets out, And she wasn't

(46:34):
like saying she was saying, how do you balance that
of what you're doing for yourself and what feels safe
versus like the conversations you're probably going to have to
have if people involveteer it that didn't know, And so
that is a it's a question we ask ourselves a
lot of like where's the line and taking into account

(46:56):
for people that are listening might listen.

Speaker 4 (47:00):
Yeah, I think that's always a like even this, Like
to me, I'm like, that's always such a conversation because
also it's like, you know, even talking about people's identities
and things that have made them feel invisible, like because
we are focused on that, like, but it's not like
even this package of them trying to show a fuller
picture is not going to be the full picture.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
And so it is.

Speaker 4 (47:22):
Yeah, it's such a tricky question when you're like and
then yeah, exposing something like this is my story, but
it is always someone else's story too, and yeah, I
never I think like that is such an interesting line.
And then like I don't know about you guys, but
I feel like sometimes it will shift depending on the story,
depending on who it's about, or who can who I
talk to, or how much I share as well, Like

(47:46):
those are all pieces.

Speaker 5 (47:49):
And you know, because we are talking about vulnerability and
really giving a lot of yourself in our jobs and
something that we do have a passion about. We also
ask this question, and I want to ask you, what
do you do to take care of yourself when it
does feel overwhelming?

Speaker 2 (48:05):
Ooh, I love that question.

Speaker 4 (48:07):
I think I'm still learning sometimes. I feel like it
changes sometimes and sometimes I'm like, I don't know if
that's gonna work today. But one thing I do, I'm
very lucky that I think actor training teaches a lot
about your nervous system. I really wish everyone went through

(48:31):
actor training and certain pieces of actor training, because there's
like in actor training, there's like an acknowledgment of the
physiological signs of vulnerability. So just being like, Okay, my
cheeks are red, my heart is moving really fast, my
left hand is shaking, and.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
Just being able.

Speaker 4 (48:53):
To name the things that are physically happening to me
has been really helpful. And then learning how to reground,
take deep breaths, and then being like, okay, do I
need to move my body right now? Like I'm a
huge I'm a huge proponent of dance parties. I'm like,
I will solo dance party, clean my apartment, and that

(49:14):
does a lot to reset me like when I'm feeling vulnerable,
is like how am I showing up for myself today?
And whether it's like making sure I'm drinking enough water
sometimes or like literally having my space not reflect a
crazy inside, like because I know mentally if I'm having
an off day, my room is a mess, and like
so like being like, okay, what can I do what's

(49:37):
in my control to reset? And then and then just
being gentle. And sometimes it's like taking myself to a movie.
Sometimes it's calling my best friend and being like, do
you have ten minutes for me to be like I'm
panicking about my like this hangover of emotions or the
sphere or just naming it. Sometimes I name it to

(49:59):
like my team, like my producer who's a godsend.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
Dylan, thank you so much for everything. Where I'm like,
I don't want.

Speaker 4 (50:08):
This to be like a this kind of moment. Am
I right or wrong in feeling this? Or like I'm
having this reservation. I don't know if I want to
take it out yet or I don't know how I
feel about sharing this yet, but I just want to
acknowledge that I'm not sure about it, so giving myself permission.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
To name it with people as well, and.

Speaker 4 (50:31):
Being like I'm not sure if I have an action
item to solve it yet, but I'm giving myself permission
that if I want one, I can have one, and
then just owning up to things like when my cousin
and I had that, like when my cousin was.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
Like, why didn't you tell me?

Speaker 4 (50:46):
Like I feel like you don't see me in my
own way of like I am my own person, I'm
not our whole family.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
I'm and like or.

Speaker 4 (50:55):
Being like, yeah, I may have had those kinds of
thoughts like three years ago, but now I am evolved,
and then having those tough conversations even though like my
heart will be like pounding and just being like you're
right and I can hear you now, and can I
ask you questions? And he's like, yeah, can I ask
you questions? And I think trying to lead from like

(51:20):
who is this person to me as well, because if
they love me and I love them, we'll figure it
out even if it's hard, even if it's weird.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
And what I find really useful.

Speaker 4 (51:35):
Is like if someone's upset at you and they tell you,
usually that means they want to work it out, and
that's like a beautiful thing about humanity is like normally
we're like I'm mad at you, it's because I want
you to fix it, like like I want us to
fix it, and trusting that people usually come from a
good place of like let's fix it. So if I'm

(51:56):
like feeling like I overstepped or or I'm scared or
I'm not sure, like.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
Those are ways of which of like.

Speaker 4 (52:04):
Just remind remembering who the person is and that like
we lead with love and and then do practicing like
self care together of like being like okay, now let's
shoot or like okay, now let's watch this funny video
and now I'm gonna send you memes.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
I'm very much.

Speaker 4 (52:20):
I watch lots of animal videos and funny videos as well.
In self care, I absolutely need that.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
And then like we'll be like.

Speaker 4 (52:30):
Wash my face, put on a little college and mask
or something like also very traditional, eat eat a cookie.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
I'm such a proponent of eating a cookie.

Speaker 4 (52:41):
And going on a walk, right, I'm like, I love
I love a walk with a cookie and just being like.

Speaker 7 (52:47):
Okay, multitasking, I like, yeah, I love how your answer
involved like having self conversations.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
But that's great.

Speaker 4 (53:02):
Tell you well, I can't sit with things for very long,
Like I realized, like that's something about me, is like
I am very bad at sitting with things for a
long time.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
I'm like, I've had to learn how to be like
when are you free? You know, Like I'm very much
like if I'm.

Speaker 4 (53:20):
Feeling like it's an issue that we need to solve,
let's solve it and that'll make me feel better versus
ruminating because like my brain will be like here are
the twelve ways that they could dislike you for the
rest of your life. Oh yeah, and if you don't
fix it now, what if they stop caring? Like so,
I'm very much like self care also comes to with
it and being like is there anything we need to

(53:43):
confront right now that would make the care easier?

Speaker 2 (53:48):
Yeah, good point.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
No, it's great, it's a great answer. It's healthy.

Speaker 5 (53:55):
It's been doing therapy.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
Yes, she has been in therapy.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
A lot of times when we ask that question, we
always get the same answer, which is I don't know.
So I love that you had such like I'm like,
do you what tool do you want?

Speaker 2 (54:13):
Process?

Speaker 5 (54:13):
And I love every single one of them?

Speaker 2 (54:15):
Thank you well?

Speaker 4 (54:15):
Actually, like so fun fact, not so fun fact, I
was nomadic for two and a half years recently, both
my choice and also by like financial insecurity in New
York is way too expensive, so it was kind of
like it was a fast track in learning how to
take care of myself because when you don't have a
home that's yours, that you get to like hide away

(54:39):
in and like Kermit and then watch TV for forever,
like which was one of my old ways of self care,
which I still have. But like when I'm like, oh,
this isn't my space, I'm subletting someone else's space who's
away for a month, Like when nothing feels like it's yours,
I literally had to be like what can I find
outside of this space or in myself to find ways

(55:04):
to take care of myself. So it kind of forced
me to It kind of forced me. Every new place
was like what new way will we find to do
to take care of ourselves? Like taking a dance class
down the street. Oh my god, amazing great way to
self care, but like I had never known before, you know,
so that really yes, that was helpful.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
Well, thank you so much for coming on in sminty tradition.
You are now friends. Yes, yes, we loved having you.
This is a great conversation. I'm sure there's a million
other things we could talk about, but for now, the
good listeners find you.

Speaker 4 (55:45):
Oh, the good listeners can find well. When You're Invisible
is on all platforms. It's an iHeart show so and
a Microltura podcast network show. So we are wherever you
like to listen to your podcasts, including the iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
App and all.

Speaker 5 (56:00):
So.

Speaker 4 (56:00):
We have Instagram, we might have a TikTok soon, but
Instagram when You're Invisible podcast and then you can also
you're always welcome to follow me. It is my personal page,
so you might get things about my life that is
muddy fair.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
So m A R I f e R, which is.

Speaker 4 (56:22):
The nickname between my first two names, Madia Fernande Underscore
my last name di e Z underscore b as in
bird because that's my second last name. Because as a
Latina we have a million names. That those are the
easiest ways to find me and to follow, and we'll
be posting more content on rig this this season.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here. Congrats,
thank you the success and second season, and thank you,
thank you and listeners. If you would like to contact us,
you can you can email us stuff your mom stuff
at heartnea dot com. You can find us on Twitter
at a podcast, are on Instagram and TikTok at stuff
when Never Told You.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
I'm also on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
We have a tea public store, and we have a
book we can get where we get your books. Thanks
as always too our super producer Christina, our executive pducer Maya,
and our tribute Joey. Thank you and thanks to you
for listening. Stuff I Never Told You is protection by
Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you
can check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.