SMNTY Interviews: Pop Culture Moms

Hosts of the podcast Pop Culture Moms Andie Mitchell and Sabrina Kohlberg join us to chat about the depictions of moms and motherhood in media, how they have evolved and why they matter.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to Stuff
I Ever told you, a production by Hurry to You,
and today we are so excited to be joined by
Andy Mitchell and Sabrina Colberg, the host of the podcast

(00:26):
pop Culture Moms. Thank you so much for coming.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
On, Thank you, thank you for having us.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yes, we're very excited to have this conversation because given
the nature of our show, we didn't talk about there's
a lot of overlap and things that I think that
we both discussed. But before we get into that, can
you please tell our audience more about yourselves. Introduce yourselves.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Sure, I'm an author of a memoir and a cookbook.
But now I just I just I just podcast with
my best friend Sabrina, and we met twenty years ago
and started this like really just intense best friendship that
has lasted us where we're talking on the phone daily,

(01:12):
which is I think why we decided we had to
let's start a podcast. If we're going to be using
the airtime, let's just get someone recording this. And so, yeah,
so I'm Andy and this is my best friend Sabrina.
Sav you take it over.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
Yeah, I'm Sabrina Kolberg. I am a producer at Good
Morning America and now a podcaster with Andy for Pop
Culture Moms from ABC Audio.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
And we are pop culture obsessed.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
And I have a three and a five year old,
so I'm also really in the trenches of motherhood. So
pop Culture Moms was kind of the perfect combination of
our interests. We talk all about moms and pop culture
and what we can learn from them while we're parenting.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
And I am very, very excited. We love talking about
pop culture here. Samantha and I huge nerds about that,
so I can't wait to get into that.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
But how did the two of you meet college? We're all,
we're all the beautiful love stories start.

Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah, we lived on the same floor of a dorm
our freshman year of college. And I want to say
we met the first night, but maybe it was the
second night. I'm not really sure. But we met pretty
immediately and we became best friends, you know, as soon

(02:38):
as we met.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
Basically, we had a trundle. We had an extra bed,
like my roommate is also my stepsister, and we had
a trundle in our small, small dorm room instead of
just basically moved right in and she only loves like
five doors down, so it was not necessary, but we
were watching a lot of TV, so we needed to
just be able to lay down and watch with us.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, yes, that I totally get that. So through that
you had this love of entertainment, you said that you're
in the trenches of like momhood. Can you tell us
about where this podcast idea came from? When did that

(03:21):
become a thing?

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (03:23):
So we spoke on the phone pretty much every day
of our adult lives, but especially when we both had children.
Andy had her children just a little bit before me,
so mineor three and five, hers are four and six,
and I was on maternity leave and we were in
the pandemic, and I would just call Andy every day

(03:48):
and talk to her about, you know, everything, but like
I would need, yeah, I would need advice on what
to do because her children were a little bit older.
But then I would also just want to talk about
whatever TV show I talked, you know, was watching the
night before, and we would just go on and on.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
And Andy had.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
The idea that we should you know, be recording and
sending it out to the masses, and we.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Just thought it was the perfect topic.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
Like we love the women that we see on television
who are playing moms, and we're so interested in that,
and it's just a funny you know, we're not parenting experts,
and we don't want to pretend to be parenting experts.
We don't want to be giving anyone advice, but it
is funny to talk about like Lucille Bluth and what

(04:42):
she's good at as a mom and what she's not
good at as a mom, And it's just a funny
way to look at parenthood.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Oh yes, we've had a lot of episodes about depictions
of moms, so I can't wait to pick your brains
about that. But one of the things before, before we
get into that, is did you like you're having these
conversations and for like younger listeners, I used to call

(05:11):
my best friend on the phone. We would watch X
files together from a distance, and we would like be like, oh,
let's get into this. But like those those things of
seeing something in entertainment and sharing that and in this
case being moms and kind of picking apart what you're

(05:34):
seeing in entertainment versus the reality of your experience. Was
that something that you found was you've got this stress
going on in your life and this was like, okay,
we can discuss and like have this release almost.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, I mean, it's definitely. It's all of the things
that like, you know, art does for us that like,
I think we liked. I think especially when we first
thought of this idea a couple of years ago. You know,
our kids were very little, and so we're really like
in the trenches and like a lot of life with
very young kids. There's a ton of joy, no doubt,

(06:13):
but it's it's a lot of hard, mundane days that
are long and sometimes grueling and repetitive. And so I
think like you look forward to your shows that you
have or like while you're feeding a baby, like you're
watching a show, maybe you're watching them in the middle
of the night when you wake up to be with
the baby. So it's I think that we like the
escapist nature of watching movies and TV. But then also

(06:38):
like it feels nice when you watch something and it
resonates and makes you feel less alone, I mean, for sure.
And thirdly, it's like there's something that happens. It says
a lot the judgments that we have about these depictions
of women, like whether we like them or don't like them.
It's like a very reflective of you know, who we

(07:00):
are or aren't or wish we were, or hate about ourselves.
And so I think it's what we've found is that
talking about like a Lucille Bluth is more illuminating sometimes
than talking to you about your mom, because you feel
freer with the buffer of like, we're talking about this
fictional character, and it just exposes I think a lot
of what we struggle with or aspire to be. You know, yeah,

(07:24):
it's a.

Speaker 3 (07:24):
Little bit safer to have a judgment of a person
who's not real. We don't really want to judge a
mother who's trying her hardest and doing her best, and
we don't want to say like, oh, she sucks, but
we can say, like, Lucille Bluth kind of sucks sometimes,
but also she's really funny. And it's just it's an

(07:46):
easier way to look at the way people are parenting
and talk about it without a judgment or without being
cruel or not understanding people.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
I feel that's so hard I connect. I can talk
about fictional characters way easier than I can.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
Talk about we have such strong judgments about them.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yes, yeah, yeah, absolutely, And so to be clear, Samantha
and I are not moms. The show title often confuses people,
but we are not moms. But we have talked a
lot about the depiction of moms in entertainment, and I
know that's something that clearly both of you know a

(08:28):
lot about and have had these conversations about. So one
of the things I would like to do, if if
you could, can we go over the evolution of this
depiction of moms in our media and TV and film.

Speaker 3 (08:46):
Absolutely, I mean if you think back, I mean, it's
obviously not the first mom or the most famous mom,
but people always are thinking about like Missus Cleaver from
Leave It to Beaver, like just this perfect mom, And
that was really what a lot of the depiction of
motherhood was like. It was just this mom who was

(09:08):
so devoted and her only purpose in life and her
only goal in life was to be a mom and
to serve her family and her kids, and that was
all people were seeing at that time.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
And over the years, we've gotten really.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
Much more complex versions of motherhood that we see on TV.
And there are some people who hate being moms and
that's what the show is about. And there are some
people who are struggling, and there are some people who
are kind of just like a mediocre mom. Like it,
the more we see, Andy always says this, the more
we see, the more we're able to be compassionate to people.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
And to be more fully ourselves. It's like going from
the one dimensionality, the lack of nuance of like a
June Cleaver to then, like we interviewed Katie Sagal talked
about peg Bundy and how like, you know, she was
funny and that she like had disdain for taking care
of her kids and her husband and all this stuff,
but it was important to see a different mom, to

(10:10):
see a mom that we even label as quote unquote bad.
It's like that it's I mean, it goes back to
I'm not enlightening either of you, but there's like representation
of any kind generally makes us in our world better
because we have more empathy or we feel less alone,
and there's just a greater context for women now. I

(10:32):
think like there's so many more shades to the moms
that we see, and it's sometimes sometimes being the mom
is like we know the woman has kids, but that's
not what we're watching her do. We're not really like
in her struggle. So it's just I think women have

(10:52):
a much broader ability to like be fully themselves in
whatever way that may be. Although I mean, we still
have far far to go. I don't want to say
that we're already. We're not like, we're not like men yet.
We're trying.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, And it's one of the things that's come up
for us on this show is we've gotten a lot
of messages from listeners who have written about very vulnerable
messages about how this perfect mother trope that they saw
on TV it wasn't the reality when they had kids,

(11:33):
and they felt guilty about it. Because that's what we
see is it's like, this is the best thing that's
ever happened. You're so happy all the time. It's just
it fulfills you completely, all of these things. So having
that representation and having that nuance and having it change

(11:54):
has been really important and continues to be. But it
is interesting to me that it's still that idea is
in the United States still very much like, Okay, the
woman is the mother, She's going to do this.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yes, well, she's going to carry the mental load probably
even if there's like an actuality is going to be hard,
She's going to be like mentally running this this thing
and I think, I mean, it's when you speak about
expectations versus reality. It's like Serena and I, I mean
arguably have seen every movie, every show. Don't quote me

(12:32):
on that, but most of them. And even still like
I we discussed that, both of us after having our
first baby realize like, oh, I don't think I could
can be that like perfect mom. I thought I was
going to be that like didn't need time to herself
or that didn't like yell sometimes, or like wasn't resentful
of like my husband doing something for himself and not

(12:55):
for the family. You know, like it's just there is
I feel like it's just bec It's like with parenting,
it's like until you're in it, I think you really
try to save yourself, protect yourself by thinking, well, but
I'll probably do it really well. Like I think I'll
probably do it really well and maybe even perfectly, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
But it's like the only I think you have to
have that blind faith in yourself. Otherwise why like why
even father trying?

Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, I feel like I get it. I know psychology.
I read a couple of books and I am reading
doing a lot of work on myself. But it's like, yeah,
anythink it just proves like so much if people say this,
but it is harder in ways that you can't even anticipate,
And so yeah, I think there's something too, uh, like

(13:44):
when we see moms who are struggling, I think you
feel like a solidarity. And then also like unless you're
watching like specific depictions of women, like you know, childcare
in the United States, paid leave in the United States,
there's not the reality for most moms is nothing glamorous,

(14:04):
you know, not even close to what we think it is,
even on a sitcom like where you don't have to
be rich, Like, it's just it's very painful and difficult
and the days are long for women.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
When I was a little baby intern, I used to
edit this show called Mothership and it was about motherhood
and one of the hosts on there was like, she
said something that always stuck with me. It's like running
through molasses every day.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
Oh my goodness, that's what we say to ourself. I honestly,
Sabrina and I say, how do people do this? Like
people with far less let's just say capabilities than me
are doing this every day for millennia, Like what's happening Yeah,
it's really it's there's not like an end where there's

(15:03):
like a break, because even if you had a break,
you couldn't like really restore enough to feel like your
heart isn't walking around outside your body. So it's just
very Yeah, it's it's I mean, look, I know I'm
saying it like it's all these like hardships and negative things,
but it is. It is, like I can unequickly say

(15:24):
it is. Knowing all of how hard it is and
running through molasses every day, it's still the greatest. It
is the greatest. It's just not going to feel like
that hour to hour or even day to day like.
But there's a lot of overall I think benefit to
like just the bond that you have with your children

(15:46):
and the bond that you have with other women now
like I think, or and dads too. I mean, so
that's been nice, like kind of it's a very democratizing
thing to have children because you're all like everyone's clean
it up, boop, you know, it doesn't matter. Yeah, we're
all in it.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yes, yes, but that is definitely something we've talked about before.
I'm sure you have experience with either through your conversations
or the podcast because you've talked to a lot of
amazing different people on the podcast.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
We've gotten really lucky. Yeah, we love it. It's great,
Like it's amazing, and every episode week I'm so sorry
you have to do this with us, just.

Speaker 3 (16:33):
To every guest, like I don't but to be here
so starstruck like we just did yesterday I think was
like our twenty fifth or twenty sixth interview, because you know,
we're just in the second finishing the second season, and
Andy said like, I'm so starstruck, and then I was like,
we've said this today every episode like.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
It's new, like at the beginning, I'm like, you guys,
guess what. We're starstruck, But we are because it's like
we're meeting people like our our worlds are colliding, like
past me watching One Tree Hill is meeting the character
that I you know, watched for so many years.

Speaker 4 (17:07):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
It's very very meaningful people to us.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Well, like you said, you're all dealing with poop now,
so which is so nice. Yes, Well, I was wondering
if you, through your pop culture knowledge, do you have
like some tropes you see with moms that just come

(17:32):
up over and over again. That you can break down.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
One big one is that the cool mom was like
the first one that we i mean mean girls popularized.
It was Amy Fohler's character as Missus George, and she's permissive.
And now we see like on Euphoria, if you watch
Alana Ubach, her character Sus Howard is like a cool mom,
a little bit different, a little darker, maybe a representation,

(17:58):
but there's just this idea of the cool mom trope
of a permissive parent, a parent who wants to befriend
her daughter or son and and maybe like build a
relationship on like we're equals, and so there's not a
lot of authority there, so we can see the problems

(18:19):
like for maybe for kids and the parent problems for
the parents there. But that's a big one that we see,
not I mean, it's not quite as much, but the
wine mom is kind of like that as well, like
that with the permissive parenting.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
But yeah, yeah, and I mean, and we've talked about
like bad Moms quote unquote Bad Moms, which is like,
you know, we love the movie Bad Moms, but just
in general we see like these moms who are seem
to be falling short and that that's a trope and
it's funny, but I think that's a really useful one

(18:56):
because then we realize that we're all kind.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
Of falling short.

Speaker 3 (19:00):
You know, everyone's kind of a bad mom and everyone's
kind of a good mom.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
So that's a good one. God, we love Like I
have one trope that I I mean, we talked about
Lucille Bluth earlier, but like this, like Lucille Blue kind
of like Emily Gilmour is a less exaggerated version of that.
But there's like this mom that's a little bit like
judgy and controlling and maybe you know, wishes that her
daughter were different. As you get that sense, that's like

(19:27):
a I love that mom on shows, I always love
that mom. Like I don't know if you guys watched
season five of Fargo, but Jennifer Jason Lee played like
this like kind of elitist mom and you don't really
like her for the whole thing, but like, ultimately she's
just It's a great character because they they use their

(19:48):
shrewdness ultimately to like help the child that they appear
to be judging so much. You know, that's like a commonality.

Speaker 3 (19:56):
So yeah, and I think we probably all feel judged
by our parents. So it's nice to see these ones
on the show as you are at least funny about it.

Speaker 4 (20:05):
Yeah, did you, because we had a big discussion in
one of one of the big mother tropes, especially like
Missus Doubtfire that growing up we were told this mother
is a really bad mother. But then you really think
on it as an adult or when you become a
parental figure, and you're.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Like, no, she was actually great.

Speaker 4 (20:24):
Like who out of all the characters you've seen, or
do you think are some of the most misunderstood mothers,
who was seen as a villain but today is like, no,
actually they had it right.

Speaker 3 (20:34):
Well, we talk about it a lot with like Emily Gilmore,
Like if you watch Gilmore Girls, and if you watched
it when you were young, Morali was the goal and
Emily was like this, she wasn't the villain, but she
was sort of like the killjoy, like she was ruining
the good time, she was forcing them, And now that
we're older, we're like, well, I mean, it's not that
unreasonable to just ask them to come to dinner once

(20:56):
a week if you're giving them, you know, thousands of dollars.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
For college, right, or that she's she's mired in like
traditional like values and rules and etiquette. But then you're like, well,
there is stability there, I guess, or there's like a
structure that I think you notice with your kids like
helps them even though it sounds like such a bore,
it's like very grounding to kids to have kind of

(21:21):
like regularity and routine and like, you know, all of those.
I guess sometimes like the parameters make you feel safer
to you know, live your life. But yeah, Emily's a
big one. We have who else, I mean, we've got
I did when I when we were interviewing and talking
to peg Bundy herself, Katie Sagall, I did say, like

(21:43):
it's a joke that peg Bundy was always like, you know,
bitterly hating her husband and like she's now making dinner
and stuff, but like she didn't seem like she was
like unhappy. And I think I like realized, well, there
is benefit to the fact that she was made making
sure that she was living her life on her terms.
And it was funny played for communicy effect. And I'm

(22:05):
sure that maybe her kids felt neglected at times. But I,
as I age, realized the value of like I just
want my mom to take care of herself because I
have a lot of guilt and tether to feeling like
she sacrificed everything. I mean, I think this is probably
pretty universal, but like, I just feel all the things

(22:25):
my mom doesn't give herself and or hasn't historically, and
it does feel like this like unbearable debt that she's
not She would say, release yourself, I don't. You don't
owe me anything, but it feels like, God, I would
love to just hear that she's like taking a trip
or like spending money on like a massage or something.
And so I think that, Like I look at peg

(22:45):
Bundy now and I'm like, maybe that is maybe there
is some sort of gift in that, like Kelly and
Bud can look at her and think, well, she's okay, Yeah,
she's finding her joy. For sure, she's finding her joy. Guys,
stop being so chuch, friend. It's been hilarious.

Speaker 4 (23:02):
For some reason, all of these old shows that I
have not watched in years keep popping up with like
TikTok trends and such, and peg Bundy keeps popping up,
and I'm like, man, first of all, how like she's
so young as those she has the wig does? She
really told us she has it in.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
Her house and we were like, that's so exciting.

Speaker 4 (23:25):
I know, like like her character on that and Sons
of Anarchy, like when people talk about her as an
actress and seeing the two types of moms she played,
I know, she's like people talk about the range that
she ends up showing and that people generationally do not
realize how she has played these roles so differently because
they were like way too young or not even born

(23:46):
yet for like married with children, but the Sons of
Anarchy and you're like, she's a bad so like everybody's
very a friend of her from the little that I've seen,
But it's kind of funny to see her play those
roles so perfectly. But she still holds that mother matriarch
role so well yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
You know, I remember, and I don't. I don't have
the facts to back this up, and I don't think
I really want to stand behind myself here, But I
never liked the mom from Seventh Heaven. I don't know
if anyone's watched it, I just never. I never. There
was always something about her like maybe like a martyr
complex that she had. I was always like angry at

(24:26):
her Annie I believe her name was. Similarly, I didn't
love the mom on Parenthood, the Meal, I think like
the I just wasn't that happy with Meal.

Speaker 4 (24:38):
I love we're talking about this because I had a
back and forth. The entire Parenthood had so many like
variations of motherhood that could not.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Quite grasp like.

Speaker 4 (24:46):
They did a good job in making sure they were
all very different culturally even, but I was just like, huh,
this is a really interesting conversation in the show in
itself on who they are portraying as not the good
mom necessarily but the normalized I guess, yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
I agree. Wow, I love this so much.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
Sorry, seventh Heaven.

Speaker 4 (25:14):
Honestly, I cannot remember. I am racking my brain to
remember that mom, because all I remember is the teenagers
all not liking each other.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yeah almost in a hot flash, and same and looks same.
I have night sweats, and I have since I had
my children six years ago. But I just remember her like.
One thing that I really hate that my mom does
is do like someone who like I don't, like a martyr.
I would rather you never do anything for me than

(25:44):
do something for me and then make me know that
like make me feel bad that I like that, like
you had to do this for me, Like it's just
it's not a gift. So I get really, I get
really triggered by that kind of behavior. And I always
think like the mom was just always she's always on
the verge of a meltdown, and I could feel it.

(26:06):
I could feel it was palpable the whole show for me. Now,
I haven't seen it since its debut.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
And I do think you're remembering it very differently than
it occurred.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
Not today, not today.

Speaker 4 (26:20):
This is one of those conversations and trying to remember
because I'm thinking of like home improvement and the.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
Mom, what Jill had to go through, Jill I did?
I really just this is one of those.

Speaker 4 (26:30):
This was one of those main tropes of like making
the mom agod the kill joy, all like too responsible,
having to not only take care of the three sons,
but her husband who acts like a child as well,
like remembering all of.

Speaker 3 (26:44):
That right, and she's basically taking care of the neighbor
with his head behind the fence.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
She was doing too much.

Speaker 4 (26:50):
Doing so much, and like they never really credit her,
and she is literally the butt of all a lot
of the jokes, it seemed or whether like like the
foil in all of the conversations. But like what I
remember versus what actually was step by Step? Yeah, being
that mother, playing that mother and the mother, Like, there's

(27:11):
so many shows that I have to go back on
in which the mothers are there and the ideal. At
least Step by Step was a little different because at
least Patrick Duffy what that was his name, right, he
was at least handsome and like likable from what I
remember as versus and and Susanne Summers being gorgeous, like.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
They kind of at least they kind of matched. You know,
the new Yer sitcoms, they don't have that. You guys
are enjoying your relationship, right, because that wasn't like a
common thing like there was like like you said, there's
like the wife being the ball and chain used to
kill joy and then the husband just the long suffering husband.

Speaker 3 (27:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
But yeah, thinking step by Step, you did get the
sense that they were happy to be together. But is
this because they were both were they both they're in
second second marriage? Yeah? Okay, coming back to okay step
by second Family, Yeah, fresh shirt over okay. Yeah, But like.

Speaker 4 (28:03):
All of these moms are such an amazing like they
are never really the caricatures like we see and when
characters are portrayed when we see sitcom moms, you know,
like others are caricatures of themselves almost.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
We have the nerd being overly nerdy, We have you know,
like those levels.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Right.

Speaker 4 (28:18):
The mother has to be like seemingly the normal part
of the family that keeps it.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
Together, right, Yeah, And I think for a long time,
like definitely in like the nineties, they didn't even really
put any effort into writing the mother because the mother
is just gonna be there. We're gonna make everyone else funny,
Like she just sit here.

Speaker 4 (28:40):
If you're a full house, you don't even need a
mother like that.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
How man movies are.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
The moms just dead because they're like if the mom
was here, would have happened, because she would have been
like stop what you're doing now?

Speaker 1 (28:57):
Right?

Speaker 4 (28:57):
But I think it's kind of interesting, And then that
kind of leads into the whole step mother trope too,
and how that's kind of grown and changed and has
like become a different conversation in itself, whether it's a
Lifetime movie or something like step by Step right.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yes, yes, yeah, I mean because like Stepmom with Julia Roberts, like,
it's great you. I think that movie did a really
good job of like you do. There's a moment where
you can side with both of them. You can understand
what Susan Saradan's character is kind of like seeing feeling
like she's losing, and then you can see that Julia
Roberts is just she's at like, you know, a disadvantage

(29:34):
because she she's new to the family, and so I
think that's maybe it's it's it's not comedic. It was
a very heartfelt movie in a lot of ways, but
there's it's broad strokes. But they think we saw some
more nuanced than like The Evil step Mother, which had
like pervaded about culture for forever. But that yeah, or

(29:55):
even like in Cinderella Story, which is Jennifer Jennifer cooling
absolute best just like just the Evil Stepmom, but she
was so she was great and sassy. But yeah, yeah,
I think parent trap man, don't get her. I don't
get started.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
Trap.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
I don't want to talk about it. I mean she's horrible,
talk about horrible, angry.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
Yeah, like just getting a divorce and deciding like we'll
just split these kids up because we don't want to
deal with each other and we're not even going to
ever see the other kid again.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
Yes, mind, simple as breaking up a twin pack. No problem,
No problem.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
Well, Samantha and I love horror, Love me too Horror.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
Okay, no, like like PhD in Horror. Excuse me right here, go.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
Ahead, okay, perfect, perfect. Because we've been discussing for a while,
a lot of these tropes you can see, like, oh,
you know the fifties trope, women stay at home. In
the eighties, she's trying to work and bounce all those things.
But I feel like horror has a separate track where

(31:18):
we can see what we're anxious about around women and horror,
and that has evolved a lot. And I feel like
motherhood does come up a lot in horror movies and
also things like infertility, child death, pregnancy, abortion, Like on
all of these things. What do you think about that.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
That makes so much sense? Because I mean, I don't
think this is new. Like my most visceral, primal fear
is that something will happen to my children, Like it's
so it's like, I mean, a very easy thing to
tap into that, like how precious and vulnerable like our
young are. But I think you're right, and I didn't

(32:07):
think about that. There's a lot of horror movies now,
some of the better ones that like are really like
metaphors for for grief, for like you know, like the
separations things like that, And yeah, so maybe you do
see a lot more of the like inner, harder aspects
of the psyche that like that a mother's going through,

(32:28):
like I think about you know, like the Bob a
Duke obviously some other and then her second her follow
up to that. Did anyone see the Nightingale?

Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (32:36):
Oh did you see? It was one thing? Like I
can watch a lot of stuff. I truly had to
turn it off at points because it was just so affecting.
So it's like it's very you know, people are like
opposed to like slashers in certain ways, and they're like
grotesque and gory and things, but it's like when you
play on like very real loss or you know, the

(32:59):
fear of it, it's, oh gosh, it's like everything on
the line.

Speaker 4 (33:03):
Yeah, right, And we've talked about the fact that because
when it comes to pregnancy and the vulnerability of women
in general and those who can get pregnant, like they
really use that as a scope of like be careful
because you are going to be easily possessed, or these
children are going to be possessed, or like that level
of conversation where like you have to remember having a

(33:24):
whole separate being means that you made those control of
yourself and you were not going to know who you are?
Are you like it's kind of just like foreign aspect
of taking this what we see as anatomy and biology
and miracles for a lot of people, and they use
that as a yeah, but there's a foreign object in
your body.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
It is going to get you. Are you ready?

Speaker 4 (33:46):
Like it's such a horrible level and it comes after
again people who can get pregnant. It is very specific
like working on those fears. So it seems yeah, and
you're right because even in the children, there's like a
bad child, like a bad seed. It's like moms, I
know you think you have intuition and instinct here do you.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
Really know your kids? Do you really? Are you really? Like?
It's it that I mean, that's hard because a lot
of times you're making these gut calls and you think
you're doing the right thing, and those movies play on
the fear of like what if I'm not like, what
if I don't really know my child? What if I
don't know what's best for them or they need more
discipline or whatever.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
It is?

Speaker 2 (34:22):
So, yeah, it is, there's a lot of that. Yeah,
do you guys have a favorite horror movie, like, oh,
of recent years anyway you could say like within the
last like five years that has come out And don't
say Hereditary because.

Speaker 4 (34:38):
Oh no, that that haunts me. I know, no one
haunts me. That was too much, too much. Tony Collet
should have won the Oscar.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Go ahead again.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
That's like a loss of child.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yeah, that's a real motherhead one. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
Yeah, I just feel like it's so prevalent in so
much of our horror and then having that like responsibility
to care for this child and as you said, that
being diving into that fear if I feel like so
much that I've seen. We're slowly working on an episode

(35:18):
on it right now, because I feel like there's been
over the past few years a lot of movies that
have been delving into that, and like going back to
The Babba Duck, which isn't that recent but fairly recent,
that was a movie I watched. I was like, oh
my god, her kid is so annoying. It felt refreshing
because she acknowledged her kid was annoying, Like it wasn't

(35:41):
trying to paint this perfect picture totally, and at the
end she does arrive at the fact like, no, it's
a mess. I have this grief. I'm accepting it. I
love him, but it's not perfect. And it felt very
new to me.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (36:01):
I think one of the movies we talk about a
lot and we go back and forth about being horror
and sci fi and thriller is Alien.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (36:11):
Yeah, we had a full on episode because Annie was
able to really dig deep in the fight that this
is about womanhood, This is about vaginas and fear of
birth and fair being alone and fear of being single,
and then you start really digging into it and you're like,
oh man, it really is and then shifting that alien scene,
being like, no, men should absolutely be afraid and need

(36:32):
to understand like the levels of in this alien scene,
which is so like pivotal to so many people, and
be like, that's one of the grossest and surprising scenes
I've ever seen. But it had a huge representation of
giving birth and you're like, oh, damn well, that was
a thing.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
Like, yeah, the movies like that.

Speaker 4 (36:52):
It kind of gets us and gets me when Annie
brings out these perspectives. He's like, I've written essays to Samantha,
are you ready? And we're going to talk about this
whole movie and it's representation of how they take motherhood
for granted and oh my h oh okay, that's what
we're doing today, okay.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
And Alien is one of those.

Speaker 4 (37:09):
We had that conversation about Wanda Vision as well, which
was that whole TV series.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
You know, I didn't see Wanda Vision.

Speaker 4 (37:14):
You didn't. Well, it's really great, like kind of ideology
of what people think will happen with child's child loss
and women, women losing control of themselves in grief, and
now with Agatha all along, I feel like it's I
turned back into her own resentment towards her mother. And
I've not even seen many episodes. It's just like people

(37:36):
talking about it, and that's what it seems to be turning.
So we're saying so many things that you would think
we would eventually get away from. But when it comes
to very focused horrors like this, Some of my favorite
are the winging movies, the where are those There was
that couple who were actually just gotten to a lot
of situations that supposedly go around hauntings, Annabelle.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
But it's the other one conju conjuring.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
All of that is about motherhood.

Speaker 4 (38:05):
Like you, like, the basis of the haunting, the basis
of like why they're being haunted. It's based on children
and motherhood. And I find it fascinating that they're so
focused on that. It almost wants to like not the tract,
but like it does love the idea of those relationships,
the motherhood and the children, the parenthood and the children,
and it finally does come to a redeeming factor of

(38:27):
like being saved by love or memories of love, any
of those things, but it has to take them in
such a torturous way.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
Right, Well, your mother is if your mother is like
your initial safety in this world, your home truly in
this world. It's like I think, yeah, I think that's
that's that is also tapping into like a very primal
fear in all of us, you know, So yeah, yeah,
it's true.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
Well, and that's I mean kind of a but very
popular trope is you blame the mother in horror. It's
the mother's fault if the.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
Child and you and and actually we stand by that, No,
I'm kidding, we do. I like to make the joke
if it's not one thing, it's your mother, and I
do think so we always joke about that, and then
like our moms will be like, oh, it's always the
mom's fault, you know, but and then we say it
a kind of it is.

Speaker 4 (39:29):
Yeah, And I think going back to one of the
best and classic horror movies for me, which was very
much based on that is Carrie, Like it's.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
Oh my God in her Dirty Pillows.

Speaker 4 (39:40):
Yeah, it holds up still, you know, and like it's
being the genre that it is, the conversation texts on religion,
the mother periods, like all those things is exactly what
a lot of everyone fears, especially periods. I hate it,
so you know, yeah, it's all but I find like
those types of tropes it just continues.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
It is it is, it still works. Oh yeah. I
think it's like there's a there's a central question in
like a Carrie type movie where like let's just say, like,
for instance, your child is not who you wanted them
to be or thought they should be, or they're not
following like you know, moral, ethical rules or whatever it

(40:21):
is which this ties into religiosity. It's I think we
all think about that, and and my sense is always
and not to sound too bad about it, but that like,
there's nothing I wouldn't change about my entire life and
self based on how my kids develop or need or whatever.
It is, Like you change, you change the world around

(40:42):
your kid, you know what I mean, Not if your
child's like a terrible person or anything like that, but
you know, so, I think when we see those like
like the parents whose rigidity, like I guess, makes the
child become a psychopath. Maybe Okay, yeah, I think like
I I'm very judgmental, like maybe of of people who

(41:08):
are expecting their children to fit into a pre existing
set of ideologies. Mm hmmm. That makes and I did
judge Anny from Seventh Heaven earlier for probably similar I'm
very sorry about that.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
We're going to need you to watch it again and
report pod.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
Hey you guys, easy, easy, easy.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
I would love to hear back from from you about that.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
Coming back to this.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
Yes, okay, So one of the things that I know
you both have talked about is, you know, sort of
the what what's the improvements we're seeing in the representation
of the mom and our media, but also if how
it could get better, could look uh can you talk

(42:02):
about that?

Speaker 2 (42:03):
Oh gosh, yeah, I mean I think it could do.

Speaker 3 (42:08):
It's we're getting better, We're definitely being more honest about
the hard parts of motherhood. But I think I would
love to see more representation of the mental load and
the things that the mom besides childcare, like all of
the other things that a mom has to be in

(42:29):
charge of and that a mom is doing.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Like, I would love to see that talked.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
About more and shown more because I just genuinely think
like a lot of men truly do not think that
there's anything extra the women are doing that they're not.
So I'm like, we need to be showing a little
bit about, you know, how much we're all doing.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
I think, Uh. Bridgerton is a show that we've talked about,
like the last season was so was the biggest streaming
season of a show ever, And I think that tells
us that, however pulpy or so be, it is, like
women like to be able to have their fantasies or

(43:14):
their desire be centered. We don't want the narrative every
story to be led by the male gaze or male
desire as we've seen it so many times before. So
I think like maybe a show that it doesn't have
to be like gratuitous, but to show women pursuing desire,
having desire being like real, like sensual creatures that we are,

(43:40):
that doesn't feel like it's sacrificing the mom's ability to
be a good mom because she's like going after like
a like a you know, an affair or something like that.
You know, I think that might be I think there
Bridgerton tells us that there's a lot of women who
want to see more of that part, that aspect of
themselves on TV, and I think, like, mom, I think

(44:01):
that that might make sense.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
Yeah, I think a lot of the stuff we've been
talking about hasn't centered the mom, like you know, the
ninety sitcom, she was the like, let's keep this on track.
So something that's more centering on motherhood and not using
it as some kind of plot device or whatever it is.
I'm curious have you talked about probably yell at me Mills,

(44:26):
Have you talked about this step?

Speaker 3 (44:29):
Have we we've we've desperately I mean we wanted to
like violence. Yeah, we've been reaching as we love to chat,
but well we yeah, yeah, yeah we have. I think
it's another trap, another trap like we have referenced.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
Like Stiffler's mom and like the idea of like that,
like like the May December relationship that like who were
we talking? What were we talking aboutself? We talked about
because she was so garcel bouvet of Real Housewives, Beverly
Hills and an illustrious acting career in her own. She's
in a movie that's like a newer version of like
How Stella Got her Groove Back, and so she's in

(45:11):
this movie dating much younger man and so we see
like the woman as the cougar or whatever. But this
did get us talking about Mills and how I just
think it's like I don't know, but I just think
like when when I was little, my mom she didn't
she wasn't trying to look like sexy. I don't know

(45:31):
that she wasn't so obsessed with like looking cute, or
maybe she was. I think she probably was, because that's
just what it is to be a woman, to be
aware of your appearance. But I think it's such a
trap like that get your body back after baby, and
like then try to so what to look like sexually
desirable for longer, for who?

Speaker 3 (45:52):
For me?

Speaker 2 (45:53):
I don't think it's for me. I don't think it's I.
And if it, if it determines that it is for me,
I think would all have to dig deeper and say, like, okay,
it's for you because you have been conditioned under the patriarchy. Yeah,
so it's very tough, Like, yes, I want to look
good and things like that, but I just think, like,
you know, we joke, but like you look back at

(46:13):
pictures of like moms in like the eighties and nineties,
and like everyone was wearing a turtleneck with a crew
neck sweatshirt over it, and like, you know, no in
an acid washed geene that didn't fit like and it
was fine, it was fine, And now we're seeing moth
Like I mean now I only wear athleisure every day.
So I really shouldn't I shouldn't have a platform to

(46:34):
speak on. But I do think it's like I don't.
I just I don't want to have to be so like.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
I don't want to try to be hot ever again,
I'm tired. I don't get mom done with that.

Speaker 3 (46:47):
Yeah, but I do think, yeah, like my mother is
was always trying to be cute, and I think it's exhausting.
Like I was even talking to her on the phone
yesterday and I was like.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Who can hairs? You're almost seventy years old, what do
you care?

Speaker 1 (47:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (47:03):
When can we let it anymore? You know?

Speaker 3 (47:06):
So I do think, yeah, trying to be the milk
is very exhausting and it's not for me.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
It's not a life for me at all, all right,
So we're going to take that off your list.

Speaker 4 (47:16):
No not, that's not part of your bucket list to
call the milk at any point in time.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
Now what I love too, Yes, but it's not it's
not something that comes naturally to me.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
So I'm just gonna move on. And it's been too hard.
It's been too troubling for me.

Speaker 4 (47:30):
You know, different people have different days. And men always
talked about how they love to see women dressed down.
So you may be someone's milk and you.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
Just don't know it. Maybe they didn't tell it to
your face, so you know, just you guys write in
you know, the most of our all of your male listeners.
They're getting on their computer right now. We have no conversations.

Speaker 4 (47:52):
But it is interesting because even in the depictions of
mothers today. And I was thinking about parenthood as well
as the Stranger Things. It is that competition to be
desired by the younger person, or competing with the younger person,
and I am thinking specifically like in the Parenthood where
I cannot remember who the characters are, but the main
couple with the oldest son his wife. Uh, he goes

(48:16):
into the record business and they have a secretary and
because she's so nice to her that she thinks that
maybe they can have chances. Yes, okay, but ye has
that younger secretary who's she's a big actress and I
can't ye'all, I've lost all the names, they're gone all
the heads.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
So but anyway, but.

Speaker 4 (48:37):
Like I know that was that that was that type
of tagline and uh storyline, but I've seen that a lot.
And then like making the guy look like such a
great dude because he's able to like, you know, find off.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
He's resisting young young women.

Speaker 4 (48:51):
But that storyline like having women compete with other women
or compete with themselves and their age in order to
be desirable, And it seems to be like that's the
notable sexualized character for the mom's is very rare for
them to look like an everyday mom, and every day
mom being yeah, sometimes wearing wesa were sometimes just wearing

(49:12):
your stained shirts that you have because you have children
or you're a clumsy yes me, you know, like not
not being always glamored up because you don't have the
time or you don't have the Oh you know, not
every woman loves to do that.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
I will say.

Speaker 4 (49:26):
My mother also, she came from the country boomer era
of like you never leave the house without makeup type
of person as well.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
Oh you know, but oh you know that generation.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
But well, yeah, I mean and Andy's mom has chased
after cars to tell us to put on lipsticks, so
she like literally has been like running down the street
and been like savvy put on lips no question.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
Yeah, this's embarrassing, but I think you're right. And we
talked to I don't know if you guys are aware
of Alice Lunin. She wrote on our Best Behavior in
this book that dissects the seven Deadly sins, how as
they pertain to how he is like how women, so
women must be good in our society and all of
these things like the don't let yourself go or don't

(50:09):
be jealous of other women, but compete with them. Like
all of these lines that we have to tow or
are so they only apply to women, Like all of
these rules, it's like you do not see the equal
and opposite for a man. Women are spending so much
on injectables and anti aging, and we're all like we
you know, young kids, young usuals getting skincare obsessed.

Speaker 3 (50:33):
Yeah, and like just look at like Bill Belichick and
he has like a twenty five year old model girlfriend,
and I'm like, this would not be happening the other
way around, right, you know, he just would.

Speaker 5 (50:44):
It's clearly a lot we could get into.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
But I do feel a lot of times I've heard
this argue meant seeing it in media of like men woman,
his wife, raises their kids, does all this stuff, and
then he divorces her for someone younger and is just
like entire like going back to what you said, entirely

(51:21):
not recognizing what she was doing to do this that
she felt she had to hide usually or like had
to make it seem like it was normal, not like
draw attention to it because we get called out for
that as women too, of saying like, oh, this is
a lot of.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
Work, don't show the effort.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
Would you know, if if a divorce needs to happen,
to divorce me to happen. But I just feel like
I hear that narrative a lot of men being like, oh,
force her. She didn't do anything for me, and it's
like she raised your kids.

Speaker 3 (51:55):
Ye yeah, yeah, Well I think that was what was
I think, and I could be remembering this wrong, but
like when Jeff Bezos and his wife got divorced and
she got that huge settlement, I think that's what a
lot of people were like kind of excited about, Like
she was getting recognized for she helped him make Amazon
and she got like half the money, and I think

(52:17):
people were like, yeah, she.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Deserves half of man. Well, we talk about rage a lot,
and we just talked to Katherine Reitman, who is the
creator and showrunner and director of Working Directed at Work
in Moms and just she talks about how a big
theme is like rage and like Sabrina is like if

(52:39):
you knew her, like she seems very like she's very
funny and she's sharp and like she can be cutting
in like a very funny way, but like she seems
very mild mannered. But ever since she's had children, she
has never something like Casey Wilson in her book The
Wreckage of My Presence says, I appear to be on
the surface, like very calm and collect but below the surface,

(53:01):
I am like seething, where she's just seething and I've
never and she's kind of circled it in the book.
Sent it to me, I said, a gotcha. Next day
I sent it again, like she's just like it's just like,
I think this makes sense. Yeah, I'm angry. It's so
many things that I don't even know if we made
a list of food end And I love that. I

(53:22):
love that, just raw emotions.

Speaker 4 (53:23):
But I think, like what I will hope And I
haven't seen too many examples because one of the things
we love is women women supporting women, but seeing shows
where the mothers get to actually support each other and
being able to see them being a unit. Recently, I'm
really into ca dramas, y'all. There was one like The
Love next Door. H is the name of it, but

(53:45):
it's about these two moms. Well now it's one of
the side stories, is the two moms who've been best
friends and have been like around each other for so long.
And now their children have grown up and all these things.
But it's wonderful because you actually see an example of
two women who have been best friends and have gone
families and have gone in different directions, but they support

(54:06):
each other still and they make sure that they understand
that just being a mother is a big part of me.
But we are still best friends in this timeline still,
and I feel like there's not enough of that, and
I want to see more of that.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
I love that. Yeah, No, you're so right. You're so
right because we say that.

Speaker 3 (54:25):
Yeah, because I think female friendships are the most important
relationships in your life. And I don't think a lot
of mothers would survive the day to day if they
couldn't talk to their friends about what was happening and
have someone that relates to that.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
And I love that.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
I love that in so many things, Like I even
watch you know, I love a good teen drama. So
I watched The Summer I Turned Pretty and the two moms,
I mean only in the first season.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
To spoiler, I always reckon.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
Sorry, I'm sorry I didn't write it, but anyway, the
two moms are the best friends. And I loved so
much of that, Like I loved watching them together, and yeah,
I think and we even we saw the new Amy
Adams Wooby that will be coming out in a couple
of weeks, and there's such great like moms supporting moms

(55:20):
in that and it's just great.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
Yeah, well, there's like a a ken. I feel like
you both are just gonna have to come back because
we have so much we could talk about. But there's
such a history of like, I'm also on a food show,
and we did an episode on Betty Crocker and how
women felt so alone and so Betty Crocker became such

(55:45):
an important person to them that people actually cried when
they found out she wasn't real.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
Oh my gosh, that's hard for Yeah, but like that in.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
A history of kind of being a mom being isolated.
But then as we've moved forward, having those friendships and
having that support and being able to say, like, hey,
this does feel like running through molasses every day? Am
I right? Like having that and having that friendship and

(56:14):
how important it is. Because we've also done episodes on
how women usually live longer after their husband passed away
in a very heteronormed of sense because they have those
friendships and men don't. So I think that's incredibly, incredibly important,
and it's like just the value of having someone you

(56:35):
can just vent too.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
Yeah, yeah, and who Like I noticed that, Like with
Sabena and I, like in a lot of ways we joke,
but it is like sort of true, like she is
my wife, like I am her wife, and there's like
I I know what it would mean for someone to
take care of me, and so I try to take
care of her like that, and he tries to take

(57:00):
care of me. Like it's just even like in our
business together, it's like we do a thing where like
if one of us gets to an email and there's
a question what, the person who got there fastest is
answering it, and the shop is closed because like I
want to take something off your plate. I don't want
to give you any more like decisions to make or whatever.
So I think like maybe as we age, I don't

(57:21):
even think it has it almost doesn't have to do
with motherhood, but as you age, you just try to
realize to take care of each other in the way
that we want to be taken care of. And it
does come back. It does come back to you with
your female friendship.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
They think.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
With all of that.

Speaker 4 (57:38):
Obviously, with your friendships growing, are there shows or is
there something that sticks out, especially with these fictional women
characters that you can see as being advice for real
life moms and just in general older women who are
trying to live day by day.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
I sail, I think Grays and Frankie. Oh that's not good. Now.
I only saw a little bit, so I can't speak
to the whole show, but I think that was a
beautiful and I think even just just listen to any
podcast that Jane Fond has ever done because she's she's
so she has such lasting friendships that she can talk about.
I love this. One of my favorite shows, like top

(58:14):
five shows all time is Penn fifteen and Maya Erskine
and Anna Ryan Conkle, who created the show and act
in the show, Like, I think that that's like a whole,
really beautiful love letter to your best friend. So I
always think of that. And I know that they're just young,
they're like in middle school and entering high school, but

(58:35):
it's it's so special feeling.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 3 (58:40):
Yeah, And we we interviewed Jessica Saint Clair, who we
just think is the funniest. We love her so much,
and she created a show called Playing House with her
best friend and it's you know, one of them helping
the other raise a baby, and that's.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
Just such it was. It was only on.

Speaker 3 (58:57):
For three seasons, but it's so great and I people
should watch that one. It's so funny and it's so
like when you think about that, you're like, yeah, another
woman would be a help with me.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
That would be helpful. Now, Sabrina did just watch a
Netflix series that she told me was based on my
twin flame, which was a mom who's gonna go and kill. Yes,
but that was a crime, which says a lot about
my my personhood lost in the fire. I mean, that
is a great tale of motherhood. This there's someone on

(59:31):
TV that is your twin flame. It's just a crime doctor. Yeah.
And apparently she she seems like she's seeking revenge. So yeah,
she was out for what is a compliment, you know
what I mean? No, I took it as one.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
I did.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
I really did.

Speaker 4 (59:48):
I mean for all like maybe like, yeah, you know what,
you need to be aware this is me.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
So that's great. Yeah, I'm gonna I said, it doesn't
have to be my child that goes missing. Guys, any
any of you call me, I'll come five stakes over.
I'll have permits on the land.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
I'll just Andy's definitely like the fierce one in the friendship,
and we have like a pact where like, if there
is an apocalypse, she will take the children against the children.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
I won't take Sabrina me down, but I'll know you'll
just slow me down. Yeah you did. Wait, we're going
to take the kids right now. As of right now,
I've promised myself it's just me and five kids and
going up up or down. I don't know if we're
heading up to Canadackar going down to you know, Central
and South America at some point a motion. But anyway, Yeah,

(01:00:39):
so I have a lot of fun.

Speaker 4 (01:00:40):
Hey, I like that there's realistic promises, like you're not
trying to be like cutesy and like no.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
No, slow the process down. It's the nicest thing anyone
could ever say to you. Yeah, we're leaving you.

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
I've already told my friends I'm going to trip them.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
So that faster than the person, I'm a find a way.
I'm just kidding that. Yeah, we know the resources will
be scarce.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
Come on, got to have these plans in place you've.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
Got well, like we saw the last of us.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
I was I think I could play that game professional.
You can't anyway. Thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
Sorry, if we really took it off the rails here,
we love that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
Thank you so much for being here. Clearly, you're welcome
back any time, because there's so much to talk about
with this and listeners go check out their podcast. Can
you tell the good listeners where to find you?

Speaker 3 (01:01:39):
Yes, so you can listen to pop culture Moms wherever
you listen to podcasts, and please do, and then you
can find us on Instagram. Andy's Andy M. Mitchell and
I'm Skolberg. Thank you so much for having us good
friendship right there.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
I don't know that we could do the social media
for ourselves.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
Oh no, I don't think we could. No.

Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
Wait, you know what the funny thing is, I know
for sure that's hers. But after I said mine, I'm like,
I don't think that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
No, you didn't know if it was your yea, I know,
I don't know if mine is actually a Skohlberg And
I know for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
Yes, yes, thank you, thank you, thank you for coming on.
If you would like to contact us, you can. You
can email us a stuffid you, mom stuff at iHeartMedia
dot com. You can find us on Twitter at momst podcast,
or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never Told You.
We have a tea pub bookstore. We also have a
book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks
as always too our super producer Christina or executive producer Maya,

(01:02:40):
and our contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you
for listening. Stuff I Never Told You is production of
iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you
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