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October 23, 2024 • 45 mins

Many of us associate soup with comfort and cooler weather. However, soup is not immune to society's determination to gender everything. We dig into the history, the marketing and the arguments about why this is.

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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to Stefan
never told you a prediction of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
And y'all. Okay, So today is October twenty third, twenty
twenty four, so coming up on Halloween. But it is
not really, this is not a Halloween episode. I'm sorry.
I'm sorry Annie, It's okay.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
I allog sad. We got a little we got derailed
by all of our We did COVID and Jerry duty,
and we didn't do as much as we normally do
the season.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
We didn't I think we needed I think we can
make it up November. Yeh, just made that the season
because we do need to come back to it. But
I will say this is a Fall episode. And I
say this though because originally when I thought of this episode,
it was because it had gotten below forty at one

(01:00):
point in Georgia, and if you know anything about Georgia,
that is significant because we don't have that much coldness
in the South, and especially with the global warming and
climate change, Yeah, it's gotten worse. But I'd love this season, Anie,
I love this season. Fall really is one of those
seasons that lust to fool us because again in the South,

(01:24):
we usually get about three weeks of lovely weather where
the leaves turn gold and red and yellow and all
the things, and a cardigan or a sweater is enough.
You get a little bit of a jacket. And it
also ushers in one of my favorite foods, soups, soups
and stews and all of the same. Which we just

(01:44):
had a funny conversation previously about Coroner who does not
love soups, and I'm a little bit like, eh, that
kind of disappoints me and you, Well.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
I won't I won't go into specific, but I am
going to bring it up because this is really interesting
to me. She was asking me why I like soup,
and the gender difference we're going to talk about here
is something I had to consider and I had not previously.
But part of my answer was based on that.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
It's really okay, all right, So I will say, did
I just recently partake into a large bowl of kimchi
ja gay? That was last week, y'all? Like when I
say we started this idea last week when it was cold,
this week it is now back to eighties. Like hot
at night at sixty degrees in the daytime is eighty
something degrees and will be for the next week. I

(02:34):
think we get like in one little dip next week.
Next Monday, it goes back down to like fifty something
at night, so you know, Like, so while I got
cold for a split second, I par took in my
kimchi jaga or kimchi stew. I also bought ingredients for
homemade chicken middle soup. Then I waited too late and

(02:55):
I didn't do it, but I will do it. Yes,
the answer is yes to all of that. And I
went on a search for one of my favorite soups
from last season because they did this whole whole like
Tortilla Kel soup, Thank you Tiktokus. TikTok has like soup
talk weirdly where people just give you soup recipes as

(03:22):
an entire three months of it and I love it
and it's glorious, and most of them are ridiculously complicated,
unnecessarily so like you have to make it your own.
They try to make your own stock. And I'm like, y'all, not.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
That that's so funny, because a lot of soups are
meant to be easy, that's simple.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yes, yeah, I'm like, why are you doing this to me.
But the kill tortilla soup, if you know, you know,
it is delicious and hearty and I love it. But
as I was hunting down the newer soup trends, I
was like, let me see what else. Fucking fine, let's
see what's out there. I noticed a couple of articles
that popped up at me, and they implied that if

(03:58):
you eat soup or partake in eating soup, you were feminine,
a girl, and definitely you were not a man, not
a real man. And I'm putting that in quotes and sarcastically.
So somehow a delicious, brothy soup consumption could it actually
imply you were not manly enough? Maybe you're enough, but

(04:19):
not manly enough.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
You Like, I get why we I mean, I don't
get it, but I kind of get it.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Why we have to tender everything. I am like, this
is odd, and this is also don't we don't talk
about this? Actually we do bring it up in one
small snippet in which a blogger talks about the fact
that she is like, my husband's what I make and
if it's soup, he don't eat it. And it's kind
of the same thing for me, Like when I do
the cooking, and I get excited about soup. My partner

(04:49):
gets excited. He's like, oh my god, so and that's
tortilla soup I was telling you about. I made it
about three or four times last year. We love that
soup in this house that is a gourmet mill. You're
very welcome with all my prepackaged things that I added,
except for the fresh kill. So now, for the most part,
for the most part, just like you, Annie, and just

(05:10):
like myself, we don't understand this concept. Like most people
don't usually slander someone for eating soup. Now, unlike our
beer versus cocktails, as we talked about previously, they will
outright like I've heard that so commonly said, like if
you're drinking a fruity drink versus an ipa, you're not manly,
Like the assumption is a man's ordering that beer. Right,

(05:31):
But there are those with some really strong opinions on
this matter, and it isn't really too surprising to see
right wing people, right wing as a conservative have some
of these opinions. During one commentary on Fox News, Jesse
Water's mate has opinion known by saying, quote, you know
my rule about men eating soup in public? I don't

(05:53):
think it's mainly and of course this was supposed to
be a jab at men who eat eat either soup
or of course in the context is also ice cream
again or both. Yes, So this was a response to
Biden loving ice cream and eating ice cream cone when
he was kind of campaigning before he dropped out, and
implications of course of licking ice cream cones, which, by

(06:13):
the way, I was going to talk about this but
then it kind of bypassed very quickly. Was also a
heated debate when two young women were highlighted during a
baseball game by ESPN by the network for eating ice
cream cones and all the nasty comments made by gross
strangers on the internet, which caused a lot of backlash

(06:33):
against ESPN for their usage of shots like this because
it happened quite often, which again, this should be a
whole episode, which I said, I was going to do
a quick one, but I'm like, yeah, we did to
talk about this because there was an obvious intention. It
wasn't just this once, but this woman, actually this young
woman came out and talked about it. She's like, why
did you do this? There's so many other moments where
we were really enjoying the actual game, but you had

(06:56):
to turn it onto two young, blonde, attractive girls eating
licking ice cream and making sure and the commentators did go, oh,
well they're they're enjoying that something along those lines. But
all that to say is why does food bring out
such weird odd reactions like eating something means you're not
manly enough soup, or too sexy ice cream or not

(07:18):
sexy enough like it? Like, what what is happening? Like,
I just why do we keep having this conversation around food.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
Well, again, that could be a whole other episode, but
the history of especially talking about women as if they
are food to be consumed. Yeah, we have sexualized food
in a lot of ways, and we've definitely put baggage
around things that are for weight loss therefore for women, right,
A lot of stuff, a lot of stuff we've done.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
Right, Well, I mean, like, again we're not talking about
this here, but I know women have actually told me
or actually men too, actually they won't eat specific foods
in public. Bananas, we know that, like and hot dogs even,
like all these connotations are like, why can't you just
let people like sustain their body, let them be what's

(08:10):
wrong with you? But yeah, like that again a whole
different conversation and coming back to it. Podcaster Caroline Benniwick's
I'm so sorry if I said that wrong brought up
the subject again with this quote. She said, men cannot
eat soup. It's way too girly. You're going to take
a little spoon and put it up to your lips
and you're going to swallow a tiny little spoon. It's weird.
It's wrong. Now, I think I believe I did read

(08:33):
that this was supposed to be satire. I think she
was specifically targeting waters comments as he made gestures about
a man handling a teaspoon and while he was talking
about you know how I feel about men and spoons
and then showing why. But then again, many do have
this opinion that eating soup takes away one's man card. Again,

(08:54):
non existent man card thereah suching. I don't I think
I've ever heard anyone reference a woman's card.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
No, I don't think I have.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
That's never been a thing, but it's hilarious. In a
while back, as we mentioned before, as in pre pandemic times,
we did an episode on the stereotype of women choosing
salads while my men eat burgers and men drinking beer
and all those stereotypes, so it shouldn't be surprising that
soup is somehow feminine. Again, I just thought it was

(09:24):
a good course, like that is usually a pre course.
But whatever. And there are several blogs where they have
the same conversation. In one blog by Katherine Mary Brady,
she writes, my grandsons informed me that they don't like soup.
My son in law doesn't either. They say that men
don't eat soup. It's not a proper meal. And that
has been an argument that's been made about different foods, salads,

(09:46):
included about the fact that if it's not a proper meal,
then it cannot be considered for men. Right, And that's again.
There even was a book titled real Men Won't Eat keeishe?
I think we've referenced that, right.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
I believe so and over on my other shows Savor,
we did a whole episode on Kish and there was
a big section about this.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, so this was written I want to see in
the eighties, so well, a long time ago, as I
was born in the eighties. I say again about this
type of conversation, which makes me super sad because they're
missing out on such an eggy, delicious pie, that is
savor that I usually eat with a salad. So maybe
you know, according to all of the connotations that we've
talked about, I'm really girly. And again seems this specific

(10:29):
reason is a dividing gender line. In many households, families,
partners debate whether soup is a meal in itself. Again,
don't get me wrong, I'm all about having a melty,
buttery grilled cheese with my creamy tomato soup from a can.
But can one eat the soup without the add is
sandwich for a meal? Or does that make you a beta?

(10:54):
I'm so confused why this is such a thing. One blogger,
Emerson Harken writes about this conflicts, saying, in my household,
yes it's a d belief. Soup is a reoccurring source
of conflict. From time to time, my partner Rachel will
offer to cook dinner, only to serve soup instead. These
incidents have sparked lively debates about the meaning of the

(11:17):
word meal and sharing of domestic responsibilities. Are we really
sharing cooking equally if one of us is serving water?
The advice of friends and colleagues was of little help
in our resolving our domestic strife. Many of the people
in my day to day life, most of whom are men,
shared by concerns about my partner's misleading meal related statements,

(11:37):
while people my partner consultant, mainly women, also believe that
the value of the meal is undiluted by literal dilution.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
Mm hmm. And they were so invested in this deception
that they decided to survey about it, he continues. Quote.
We carried out a gender based analysis of super related
attitudes and beliefs using short online survey. The survey consisted
of a landing page asking can soup be a meal
on its own? After which respondents were presented with examples

(12:08):
of food which are often served in bulls and asked
to classify them as soups or non soups.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
If y'all want to go look this up. Emerson Harken
is the dude, and he has I think it's e
Harken is a blog. He has a whole graph he
has like graphs upon graphs upon graphs, like he was
really invested in this conversation. And here is their co conclusion.
Our preliminary gender based analysis suggests that women may be
more likely to believe that soup is a meal than men.

(12:36):
Often borderline or trend level statistical significance, deliberate attempts to
influence the outcome of the study about one of the authors,
and the underrepresentation of men and our simple together means
that our results should be interpreted with caution. Because the
number of gender diverse respondents was very small, our work
should be regarded as an incomplete gender based analysis at best.

(12:57):
The stronger association between soup belief and gender than appetite,
which is probably more closely linked with sex than gender,
further underscores the importance of carrying out a more comprehensive
gender based analysis than was possible here. So again, this
is one of those other things that I'm like, I
feel like maybe this is another episode where we talk

(13:18):
about why the women are more likely to participate in surveys,
because looking at this study, literally three fourths of the
participant who responded were women.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
Well, it sounds like probably Rachel influenced participated, I imagine, given.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
The results, But is it also that she actually reached
out to people and said take this quiz and he
did not put that effort.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
That's true, back to soup.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
Back to soup, and some other people had done some
research on our own, but this is more of a
lunch base survey, which could be a better debate. I
guess is soup better at lunch or dinner? Hello Olive
Garden and the salad soup combo. Yeah, that soup of Scott.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah, I have a recipe for that.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
I think I do too. I'm just too easy to
do it. But it's delicious anyway. But according to their research,
women are two times as likely to order soup for
lunch than men. Oh and just in case you need
to know, National Homemade Soup Day is February fourth, so
put that in new calendar. Okay. Also, any I would

(14:37):
say that you are a soup connoisseur. What do you
think about all of this?

Speaker 1 (14:43):
It's bizarre to me, I mean, obviously, but given my
own experiences. When you said this was a thing, I
was like, really, because going back to the person in
our life, and I think, if you know, you know
who it is who doesn't like soup. She asked me like, why,
what are some of the reasons you like it? And
I'm saying, you know, it's really comforting and It's something

(15:04):
that I feel easy to digest, but also it reminds
me of my dad. My dad love soup. He didn't
have any of this. We're a big soup family. Like
my mom loves soup. Every time I go home, she's
got a new soup she's made. She makes big batches
and just freezes them and will just heat it up

(15:24):
and it's really easy. But I would say the gender
difference I noticed in my family is that my dad
preferred kind of what I would call heavier soups with
like usually beef and potatoes, stuff like that, but he
ate all kinds of things. And my mom she preferred
more like chicken and vegetables in her soup. I soup

(15:49):
all the time. I am very happy.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
It's true. Like if she comes over to the house
and I'm asking to Pessa, She's like, I just need
noodles and these things and sometime of kale recipe that brings.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
In famously in our friend group, I had that birthday
that you were so kind to throw and it was
a sad sack soup weekend.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
It was my birthday and we had soup the entire
time between I believe we may we bought we ordered
fuck because that's something I cannot do. Uh. Then we
had Ramens, and then we have something else. We have
Chicken and Dumblings. That was that that say, so chicken
and doublings because I have my sister has an amazing
chicken and doublings recipe and I love it. That is
probably one of my favorite meals period. Chicken and Dublings

(16:34):
is my favorite outside of like Kim Chia Kay. There's
a few other like reminiscent, but Chicken and Doublings is
my go to. But yeah, like we had that as
well as the fact that I have stacks of punk
stuff with sacks upon noodles like Asian types of noodles
in my house and I keep it on the regular.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
And you know the whole talk about being comforting, that
is scientifically true, Like it is actually comforting to the
point that they tested people moods and how they would
react to like their own prejudices. So like they would
test people's prejudices before and after soup, and they would
be kinder because they were all like they were comforted

(17:14):
or they would be less stressed with after getting some soup.
So like this is a scientific thing. I didn't really
write that in here, and I think it's an amazing idea,
and we're gonna talk about the whole medical level of it,
but yeah, like it really is true, like that level,
and then there's such memories. Of course we're talking about
that with food in general, chain and doublings for me
is one of those things too. But again, of course,

(17:37):
as we were mentioning, this could be a cultural thing.
Perhaps many cultures eat soup all year round and whenever.
Many eat soup for breakfast. Kangis, which are savory rice porges,
are often eaten in Asia for breakfast as well as sicknesses,
as well as delicious miso soup that is considered a
breakfast soup. Egg drop soup. There's a specific type in

(17:58):
Korea that is often new. Or there's a blueberry soup
in Scandinavia which looks really interesting, like the whole soup
is like oh because apparently while blueberries is like a
whole season and they have this whole thing and then
they make this blueberry soup out of it, and like
this is genius. Of course, savory dishes, I like this
start the day, right. I think there's something to it.
I know, I've woken up many a couple of times

(18:19):
and I've told you like I'd have just had ramen
for breakfast, and it's actually not a bad idea.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
I treat to talk sometimes.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
Ye perfect, Maybe too much salt for the ramen, but
you know still yeah, yeah, yeah so but even more so.
Many cultures eat soup whenever. Korean stews or Jiga's are
a staple that is used for celebrations and luck. Seaweed
soup for birthdays, but don't eat it around exam times.
It doesn't bring you luck. We know, we have the

(18:47):
whole like soup that I make for lunar New Years
that I have done for the past couple of years.
Of course, some may debate that stews and soups are
different and constitute it as being more manly. I guess
less liquid means more testosterone. Yeah maybe, who knows. I
love a good stew, don't get me wrong. But the

(19:09):
other question, is chili a soup or a stew or either?

Speaker 1 (19:13):
Oh no, Well, in my personal opinion, it would be
its own things, own thing. Yeah, because I feel like
a stew is like usually thicker, the broth isn't like
its liquidy I feel like chili is within the family,
but that's its own thing.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
I I have a feeling people have opinions, so I'm
excited to you about this. And of course why is
it considered manly? Chilis are considered really mainly to the
point that the contests that I've seen are mainly men
made up of men. Uh and like burly men at that. Yeah, chunky,
chunky man. So according to Scott Hutchison, yes, it is
manly and he's possessed. Specifically, this, like ribs and steak,

(20:01):
chili is a dish safe enough for even the manliest
of men to prepare. Yeah, maybe it is the image
of firefighters five alarm virgins, the spicy heat of the dish.
Or maybe is that making chili like grilling, is a
good excuse to drink beer. Whatever the reason, a request
for a pot of chili can get many men into

(20:24):
the kitchen. Oh, I think he was trying to persuade
men to do more cooking.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
Bit wow, come on.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
But and then he added the recipe for one of
the worst types of chili in my opinion, And I
hold strong for that because I think I got very loud.
I'm so sorry Christina the Cincinnati style chili. I'm sorry,
cinnamon and nutmeg and chili is a travesty. The first
time I had it, I literally almost spit it out.

(20:57):
I don't try not to because someone made it for
me and it was a tradition for her family, and
I was trying to be very very nice about it,
and I was like, oh, what is this. I think
our family is from Ohio, so this was a thing.
And I was like, what did I just eat? And why?

Speaker 1 (21:14):
That's funny because I feel like cinnamon. I don't know
about nuvig, but cinnamon makes sense to me. How dare
you a lot of like stuff like that puts cinnamon
in it?

Speaker 2 (21:23):
Maybe not much, but a lot of people love this type.
And I know this because it's also like they use spaghetti.
They'll eat it with spaghetti. Oftentimes the sloppy Joe has
cinnamon in it too, which is why I despised it
growing up. I hated it growing up. I still do.
I think there's a lot of things in that. I
was like, I don't like this.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
You know, there's a tradition. I can't remember if it's
Ohio listeners right in we did a whole episode on it.
But there's a tradition of school lunches in Ohio perhaps
serving cinnamon rolls with chili. Really it's like a classic combination.

(22:02):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (22:03):
I'm horrified.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
I can I can see it.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
I am horrified, I know, And I feel like I've
just offended a lot of people because this is like
a heat to take, not a heat to take, but
like both of those can be a heat to take,
like whether you like it or you don't, because people
have a lot of strong opinions on this one. I've
seen it. Like I said, when she made this for me,
she was kind of apologetic because she didn't know how
it would react. And I think she was trying to, yes,

(22:28):
this was a white woman welcome me to her culture
with this, and I just thought there was like, what
is what is this? And I say, this is a
person that does not like can chili. I actually despise it. Also,
I only like it like homemade, because there's just like,
I don't know, there's something about it that just I

(22:51):
think that people feel that way about a lot of things.
Canny anything, processing anything is a little different from your
homemade making yourself. And I of course love to burn
my face off. I love to wet when I eat,
and so chili is no exception to that. One time
I made it so hot, I pre like, profusely apologize
to both my partner and I think Annie you were there.
I was like, oh god, I think I made a mistake.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
I know I've had your chili and it was really good.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
I was like, I added too many habitatals ay. Sorry,
but all of that to say, yeah, I don't like it.
If you want my opinion on Cincinnati style chili, yeh,
I think it's fine, and he's on your side.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
I am not.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
But again, there could be back to away from Cincinnati chili.
I'm so sorry, but there could be the idea that
more meat, beans and spice equals mainly especially spicy and
the spicy or the mainly or maybe it's the picture
of rugged firefighters in the kitchen cooking chili that pushes
the narrative even more because and y'all the amount of

(23:58):
times that I've seen firefighters come into the Kroger as
a one giant unit to watch each each other's shop
and my assumption instead of making chili. But I know
part of that is I'm sure someone's gonna yell at
me about this. It's part of that is because you know,
making something big, a giant thing accessible quickly, chilis is easy.
It is, so that's one of the reasons it's one

(24:18):
of my favorites in the winter time, making my homemade chili,
because you can make a lot very quickly. All you
have to do is really chop up some vegetables, put
some cans together and ym yum.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yum mm hm.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
You're welcome. And you can make it differently. You can
like my partner will go all out and put like
brisket and such, and I'm like, I don't have time
for this, give me ground meat. I one time put
like jumbalaya sausage in it made it nice and smoky,
but that texture did not. I didn't have the texture
that pexture can be att Yeah, but anyway, all that
to say is, yes, maybe that's why it's all mainly

(24:51):
and that's a good specifically two firefighters like that. That
reason makes says I can't make a tin course mail
for a squadron when they're on ready, on call at
all times, So that could be that. But for some reason,
that narrative is enough to make it manly. Who knows.
But back to cultures, who would say that soups are nourishing. Yes,
it seems when it comes to soups that aren't thought

(25:12):
of as American are more likely to be treated as
a legitimate genderless dish, such as fu and ramen. Again,
this could be the argument that the spicier it is,
the manlier it is. Because I love me some good
spicy ramen, I go like alterra heat five if I can,
and then like like it's not drippling if you eat ramen.

(25:33):
You know what I mean. But this could be a
whole other conversation about appropriating versus appreciating with other cultural
culinary dishes. By the way, side note, did you know
there was a white couple who ran a white couple
who ran a fuzz shop in the UK who trademarked
the word phuh so that no other competitor could use

(25:56):
that word in their shops. And yeah, by the way,
they received a lot of backlash for that. Also, now
there's a recent trend of white French Canadian couple who
was selling boba and then when they were asked about like,
how are you you know, different from the boba that

(26:19):
is in Asian shops, and they are like, well, you know,
first of all, boba shouldn't is not ethnic anymore, and
you don't know what's in those types of boba because
you know Asian people, but in ours, it's clean and healthy,
and they were like, what the needless to say. They
got a lot of backlash as well, because they were like,
you can't. You can't do that. You can make it

(26:40):
something and you can say that you like this, and
so therefore you wanted to jump on board, but you
can't pretend like you're dismissing all the others and yours
is better somehow. But that's what happened. Who knows. I'm
wondering with all of that, because white people have kind
of come on board with all of this, has it
become more acceptable because more people white people like it

(27:03):
that whole level.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
Well, I think I was talking to you about this.
I don't think a lot of people who don't have
a lot of experience with things like fu or ramen
would call it soup. I don't think they really call
it soup really, or especially ramen fu. Maybe yeah, but
I think people think of it more as noodles, but
not pasta because I have a friend who says she

(27:26):
doesn't like pasta but she loves ramen, and I with
my mind was breaking about it and I was like, Okay,
so I think maybe there's also especially so.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Me, it disconnects with that.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
Yeah, so I think that for some people they wouldn't
consider some of this soup even though it is Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
I guess maybe because but the thing is like, for
I know a lot of Korean dishes where you have
like the lovely broth with the handpuld noodles. The broth though,
is what makes the taste.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
Yeah, they want.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
You to have good noodles and they want it to
be good toodles, but they're focusing on that broth.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
Yeah, definitely interesting.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
Anyway, back to soups in the US, So these soup
companies have been on a high alert of this gendered problem,
and thanks to their marketing team, they've had some ideas.
In the nineteen forties, they went on to post ads
with cartoon drawings of women in aprons and Annie, I've
got the link if you want to go look at
this women in aprons surrounding a sign that says quote

(28:27):
for men only, with a caption he Man is the
world for these hearty suits. But ladies, you'll like them too,
oh great, and y'all and yes, all y'all. They had
he Man soup ads, which classifies split pee soup as
part of that group.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
I think I want to do an episode of a
split pea soup over on Savor because I think split
pea soup had a whole thing. Does it got associated
with like fine dining and stuff?

Speaker 2 (29:00):
I did so like just a little bit that I
read like split pea soup the way that it had
like built up. It was absolutely originally a poor person
soup because peas were easy. There's a whole rhyme. I
didn't put it in here. There's a rhyme they have
in regards to peace and the soup and making them

(29:20):
into soup. And then it got taken over and it
became fine dining somehow, which is really odd to me.
I hate peas. I mean, I need a lot of things.
Oh no, it seems just so you'll know, not me, okay.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
But anyway, back to Campbell's and all of this marketing
that was going on around soups and making it masculine. Yeah,
Campbell's had the chunky brand which I remember still around
that have football players on the branding. So just so
you know, it's very masculine and it did work. But

(29:59):
with a twist, it's just like moms. It's just like
mom used to make love that kind of home style. Yeah,
here's some information from FastCompany dot com quote. The beauty
of the chunky marketing campaign is twofold. It is both
a serious appeal to manliness and a self deprecating look

(30:19):
at the absurdities of marketing. We're talking about soup here.
Nothing that you eat with the spoon is ever in
danger of seeming stereotypically macho, unless it's motor oil. The
ads are aware of their own silliness, which leaves viewers
that much more vulnerable to the real and ridiculous message
that soup is a manly food. The ads also cast

(30:40):
a massive net of appeal by telling consumers that all
you have to do is love your mom, and that
makes you at Campbell's chunky kind of guy. Is it silly, yes,
but is it also brilliant? Absolutely? I mean, I love
my mom, don't you. Let's celebrate by eating some broccoli
and cheddar.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
So the message is yes, men can eat soup. But
as long as you can contribute this to your mother,
right your mom. Now, these as debuted in the like
late nineties, which is why you don't remember it any
and continued on during the early two thousands, but they're back.
They're back at it, and it's a bit of them
kind of a balance. I guess you have what you

(31:22):
may consider what many would consider green flag dudes, meaning
he's a good dude who isn't a sexist as far
as we know, seemingly caring guy who has who shows
some emotions type of thing. Then they're the ones that's
advertising this. So we have Jason Kelcey lying on a
bear rug making soup still mainly but now sexy. Yeah, sure,

(31:52):
or perhaps it's supposed to be approachable unless Mama's boy.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
It's abatable, abatable.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
I think Travis Kel's was also involved, but his commercial
was a little different. But it definitely is that lie.
Like and this is recent twenty twenty four, like this
just happened now. Maybe the classification of soups being feminine
has something to do with its level of implications of
social class and social status. Also, so soup's origins can

(32:20):
be dated back to the idea of eating vegetables dipped
in broth, as a lot of people couldn't afford meat.
So we have old tails such as the Stone Soup,
which tells the story of a village coming together to
make a delicious soup with their meager ingredients that they
didn't want to share at first. They're trying to hoard
and pretend like they didn't have anything made by a

(32:41):
hungry traveler. It could also be the fact that they
used to take hot stones. I believe ancient Asia used
to take hot stones and put it in water in
order to boil it, so that could be that stone
Soup conversation too. But this isn't again, this isn't so
far off. Many creations of soup came from what they
had left over. That's what it begins. When it comes

(33:02):
to making stocks and broth. It is literally using leftover
parts and ingredients. We know those. It looks like trash,
like what I saw someone for the first time making
actual stock was like, what the hell you do? And
then it turned out they were making really delicious stock.
As a writer of all Things Sicilian and Moore dot
com rites, soups were made with what was once considered
the poorest of ingredients. Then they say something in Italian.

(33:22):
I'm going to translate it to English because I can't
say it in Italian. Making something out of nothing.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
Yeah, and what do you think of like gel gelatin
that's often in soups. It's bones. It's just boiled bones.
Here's some more detail of soups origins from hotmixedpro dot

(33:50):
com quote the soup is the food of the working class.
Is origin dates back to many years ago, when poor
peasants could only afford some vegetables dipped in a broth.
To better understand the origin of this food, we have
to start from the name. The soup comes from the
Gothic word soupa, which means slice of soaked bread. In fact,
rich lords often ate meat or other foods over thick

(34:12):
slices of bread in the Middle Ages, which effectively replaced
the dishes at the end of the meal. The pieces
of bread left by the rich people were donated to
the servants who cooked them with the other vegetables and
pots full of water.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
Right, which I find fascinating. Maybe that's why, like really
nice cuts of meat from barbecue places are on top
of white bread. I thought that was a Southern tradition,
maybe super rooted, who knows. So perhaps these original connotations
are part of this feminization of soups. To be successful,
to be manly, all those things kind of jot together,

(34:46):
and so therefore you can't be eating soup. Come on, man,
you gotta be an alpha. Or perhaps is how soups
became a whole diet trend. Now we're not gonna get
too too deep in this, obviously, but yeah, which brands
fell for, like they loved this idea and really really
tagged onto it. To the fact that if you go

(35:08):
and look at the different types of soups and brands
in the grocery stores, you will see these low calories,
low sodium. Low sodium is great, that is actually really great,
but all these low calorie things that they have marketed
for people who are on soup diets. But the cabbage
soup diet is probably one of the best known soup
diet bads in the US. And I can't lie I participated,

(35:31):
but honestly, I just really love cabbage. I love cabbage.
My mom used to boil cabbage as a side dish,
and I love that so much to the point that
I would eat it like soup. I would just add
tons of pepper and good town. Yeah, so I love
cabbage and soup, so I would eat it with quinoa.
It was one of my favorite combos. But yeah, I
was always hungry afterwards and fairly gassy, like I was

(35:54):
not feeling too good. So according to Wikipedia, the originations
may date back to the nineteenth fifties and became super
popular in the nineties. Yeah, my partner actually talks about
how like he hates because I talked about making cabbage
soup for like during the winter time because I just
love it, and he was like, oh. He would tell
me stories repeatedly every time I mentioned cabbage soup about

(36:15):
his old babysitters who that's all she ate And he
hated it. He hated the smell of it, he hated
everything about it. I guess he really did not like
his babysitter.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
I don't know. Oh, dear, maybe that's just like, why
do you have to eat this cause Lily maybe she
was super gassy too, Who knows. Anyway, spoiler spoiler alert,
it doesn't work. You may lose a bit of weight,
and unless you make this the only food you eat
for the entirety of your life, you will quickly gain
it back.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
The way generally with the diets. That's how it goes exactly.
Here's some information from healthline dot com quote. Unless you
have a more sustainable diet to transition to, you likely
regain any weight you lose on the diet. Furthermore, studies
suggests that when you greatly restrict calorie intake or lose
a sustainable amount of weight quickly, there's a reduction in
your metabolic rate. This means that your body begins to

(37:08):
burn fewer calories per day than it did before. As
a result, after going off the diet, your lowered metabolism
may make it harder to maintain your weight loss. Additionally,
as soup diets like the Cabbage Soup Diet and Sacred
Heart Diet are quite restrictive in the types and amounts
of foods allowed, there's a concern for nutrient deficiencies. While
eating a restricted diet for just five to ten days

(37:30):
is unlikely to result in serious nutrient deficiencies, especially if
taking a multi vitamin, significantly reducing calorie intake can lead
to side effects such as dizziness, weakness, or fatigue.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
Right and Unfortunately the diet has come back round, but
it's now called souping, and he's called souping. Who thinks
of these? Who does this? Who's doing this?

Speaker 1 (37:55):
Wow?

Speaker 2 (37:56):
Phili, This is a millennial trying to be on track
against So yeah, article after article for women's magazines have
popped up with the newest diet trend of souping. Now
it's not all bad again, eating soup is fantastic. The
amount of health benefits and nutritional values, it's pretty high.
Veggies for everyone, Yeah, everybody eat veggies. But as it

(38:16):
continues to be marketed and targeted to women as weight
loss solutions, we can see that the gender line of
soup consumption is more visible. So obviously we're making this
a bad for women. That again, like all I saw
was like Glamor magazine has something in it, Women's Day
magazine has like what is going on? It does? It

(38:37):
makes it feel like, okay, soup is for diets. Yeah,
but back to the souping. Apparently it is thought of
more as a cleanse rather than a consistent diet. So
you can do like the cabbage diet for two weeks
as a kickstarter, which by the way, there's no actual
benefits to that. That's not a thing. Scientifically, it's not
a thing. No, But adding soup to your mill in

(39:00):
order to feel more full and eating less and helping
to eat more fiber. So that's kind of the new
souping idea is to add it to meals, which I
feel like is just okay, moving on, that's kind of whole.
Like people talk about drinking a glass of water. Yeah,
you're gonna feel full, but you're gonna want okay whatever.
Soup probably is better if you have a lot of
vegetables in it and it's delicious and you're like, yeah,

(39:20):
let me eat this. Maybe it does, and then you
get also have your you know, fried chicken to the side.
I love fried chicken.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
So the New York Post recently wrote an article about
this fat and here's what they said. Souping, often seen
as a method for clean eating and weight lass, involves
adhering to a diet consisting exclusively of vegetable soups for
a set duration, typically seven days. Kelsey Costa, a nutrition
consultant for diabet is strong ink Toll Parade. So this
was like article in an article. In essence, souping is

(39:50):
the soup version of a juice cleanse. So she goes
on to also say the same things that we just said,
they're not wonderful, be careful, don't do this. If you're
doing these things, be highly aware of what you're putting
into your body and realize if you're still hungry, it's
probably not effective.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
Just great.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
So they also advised, like other professionals said, this is
not a long term thing, meaning yes, less than two
weeks at a time. But you know what, we do
know that soups can be really good for you. Came back.
In fact, we know that when it comes to illnesses
like coals or just tummy aches, which I've had, we
always turn to some soup. I do. I'm like, yeah,

(40:30):
give me, give me some soup. Apparently it was even
prescribed as medication in the twelfth century for respiratory tract issues.
And guess what, it actually can be beneficial for culs
according to doctors and researchers.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Here's some information from Pennmedicine dot org. Quote research by
Ken Albala, a food historian at the University of the
Pacific in California, published research in the journal Studies in
History and Philosophy of science parts. Studies in history and
philosophy of biological and biomedical sciences suggest that eating soup
while you are ill comes from common knowledge and an

(41:04):
informal intuition. Albalasa's soup is often the go to food
because it can be quote nourishing, restorative, easy to digest,
and interestingly liked in both consistency and color, so as
not to tax the system excessively. The same recommendation is
advised by Melissa Bailey RD, a clinical dietitian at the
Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania. Bailey believes there is

(41:28):
no one size fits all approach to diet, but says
that there is real scientific evidence backing the merits of soup,
especially for those with a cold.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
Right, So, this is the article that I'm talking about
in which they kind of go into the comforting level.
It actually does change of mood, It does actually help
you feel a little better, a kind of that warmth
that goes down your throat does ease your sore throats,
stuff like that. So they're definitely great truths behind why

(41:58):
soups can be really good for you and amazing and
perhaps the soup being too nutritious or being associated with
sickness and pampering makes it a girly food as well,
Like again that whole like mom gave me soup as
a child, when I was sick, or when I felt weak,
my partner gave me soup. Maybe that's what makes it feminine,

(42:20):
Like you know, it's kind of that whole reach the
unconscious bias for some reason that you associated with weakness,
so therefore it has to be feminine. I don't know.
Maybe I'm reaching for that, but I don't know if
this correlations have anything to do with it. Yes, you
can only eat soup if you're sick, dieting, or you're
a girl. The one article was titled these foods will

(42:41):
make you gay, and they were talking about soup, and
that's an article about water, saying you know you're not
manly if you eat soup. So his implication was like
that you know you're gay if you eat soup. Obviously,
unless there's stews or chilies any only chilies. But all
that to say, I think soups are delicious. I will

(43:05):
come back to let you know if I think chilis
are soups or stews. I haven't really thought about this.
I will ponder this. I think they are creative and
wonderfully diverse. I want some right now. I'm kidding, kind
of hungry, So there you go. Let me know. Do
you think soup is feminine?

Speaker 1 (43:27):
Better yet? Do you have souper recipes?

Speaker 2 (43:30):
Yeah? I love good recipe, easy easy, there's piece, y'all.
Of course, we didn't talk about the history of soup
because we're not safer, but they did talk about the
whole like popcn and how that really revolutionized soups as well,
So maybe it being easy. I think this conversation about
like hit the dude talking about how his wife made soup.

(43:52):
I didn't read whether it was homemade soup or she
just popped the can. And that's why he's implying that,
you know, this is cheating and it is not a
full meal because it's not homemade quote unquote.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
Well, there's also like, separately, I think a lot of
people in the US associate soups with an appetizer. Therefore
it's not a whole meal. But I think you couldn't
have it for the whole meal. But also the history
of soup making often required in the early early days,
women to stay by the fire or whatever heat source
so it would go out. So I think it probably

(44:28):
got associated with women that way, and then men and whiches,
and then men. There's a long history of men in
the West, particularly, I'll say of they are the ones
that bring home the meat, the domain of meat. So
if soup doesn't have like meat in it, then not

(44:54):
not mainly. No, Well, there's a lot to time back here, clearly, clearly,
so listeners, if you have any thoughts or recipes, please
let us know. We eat soup all the time. We're
year round people, so yeah, yeah, so send those our away.
You can emails and Steppudia mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.
You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcasts,

(45:14):
or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff One Never Told You.
We also have a tea public store, and we have
a book you can get wherever you get your books.
Thanks as always too, our super producer Christina, our executive producer,
and our contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you
for listening Stuff I Never Told youspriction by Heart Radio.
For more podcast from my Heart Radio, you can check
out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
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