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August 25, 2017 31 mins

Women's Equality is one of those bittersweet holidays. It marks the incredible effort that led to US women gaining the right to vote, while reminding us of another critical constitutional amendment that would have established true equality - but failed.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Emily and and you're listening to stuff
mom never told you today. I am super excited to
talk through what I think is quite an untold story

behind the holiday celebrated on August here in the United
States known as Women's Equality Day. Women's Equality Day to me,
used to come up on the calendar, on that list
of sort of holidays that you might google if you
are in social media and need to come up with
graphics for holidays, just to get some content out there,
all right, just to like whatever we need. And then

I'm I'm as big a feminist as they come, and
I really didn't think August was the best way to
honor women. I was thinking, this is kind of a
lousy time in the calendar. Everyone's on vacation. What a
random arbor preary day that I think also coin signs
with Free Cone Day and Ben and Jerry's That's one
of my favorite holidays, which to me is like a
win for all and win for women, but are also

kind of upstages Women's Equality Days sometimes. Yeah, I definitely
have commemorated. This makes me sound like a bad feminist.
I've definitely commemorated Code Day more than I have uh
commemorated Women's Quality Day exactly Roxane Gay would be proud of.
It's a hashtag bad feminist. But as it turns out,
there is a huge, fascinating, amazing story behind this holiday,

which was established in nineteen seventy one thanks to a
quite a character who we're going to talk more about today,
Representative Bella Abzug of New York, to commemorate the passage
of the Nineteenth Amendment, which granted women the right to
vote way back in nineteen twenty. So this is a
holiday that allows us every year to celebrate the Nineteenth Amendment,

to celebrate the fact that our constitution says women as
well as men should have the right to vote. But
at the same time, it's also a reminder of the
amendment that never passed or never became ratified by the
United States of America, which is known as the e
r A or the Equal Rights Amendment. So some of

the unfinished business of constitutional equality tends to be sort
of churned up when we start to celebrate the Nineteenth Amendment. Today,
we want to talk about the story behind women's suffrage,
how we won the right to vote, which is really
what August twenty six Women's Equality Days all about get
to know the fascinating character that is representative Bella Abzug

and talk a little bit more about the work we
have yet to finish, our unfinished business when it comes
to constitutional equality. So let's take it back a little
bit and talk about how we got to the nineteenth Amendment.
So the nineth Amendment really was a culmination of a massive,
peaceful civil rights movement led by women, but notably mostly
white women. The Asthenical Falls in New York we're talking about,

And really this had its formal beginnings in eighteen forty
eight at the world's first women's rights convention in Seneca Falls,
New York. So, like a lot of good things in
the world, it came from New York, just like our
beloved Bella. Indeed, and even after the hard fought battle
for women's suffrage was over in the United States when
women won the right to vote in the nineteen ratification

of the nineteenth Amendment. Uh, you know, this went without
a holiday, This one without a holiday for fifty one years.
But on the fiftieth anniversary, which was in nineteen seventy
on August seventy, fifty thousand women marched down New York
City's Fifth Avenue in a display of super strength of

second wave feminism. This is like nineteen seventies second wave
feminisms shining moment, and I mean there were many shining moments,
because was there like force of strength on display and
this sort of does that remind you of anything that
happened pretty recently? It's sure? What is that the march
of what do we call it, technically the women March,

the Women's March on Washington. Yeah, absolutely, And so I
think the numbers in that round were global and in
the millions, right, what was the eight millions? I've heard
it's the largest march of women or I think it
was the largest march on of all times. That the
record it um Then again, they didn't have Twitter, they
enough the Internet. So fifty women marching down Fifth Avenue

is still amazing. And what they were doing is they
were celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of the nineteenth Amendment, and simultaneously,
as is so necessary unfortunately in the women's rights movement
and in feminism in general, they were protesting vocally the
limits and expectations still placed on American womanhood, demanding changes

to child care and abortion policies, education and employment opportunities,
and many of these women abandoned their usual domestic duties
for the day to join forces with sisters from across
the country, staging sit ins and takeovers of all male
spaces like bars that were still all male. And it
was really, um a fiftieth anniversary opportunity for women to

flex their political might and show the world that, you know,
we're here, We've got the right to vote. There's still
a lot more than we need. So what's so great
about that to me is one is that that that
today we did that same tactic. I don't know if
you all participated, but UM, on March eight seventeen, we
had a Day without a Woman, where the idea was
that women should whatever duties that they have, they should

not do them so that to sort of flex our
muscles as folks who identify as women. So I just
love that that's something that's been a tactic for a while.
I also just think it's really notable that the things
that you just listed that these women were marching against,
we have not won those battles. We are still fighting
for abortion rights in this country today in twenties seventeen,

we are still fighting for you know, employment opportunities and
education opportunities, and child and better childcare, affordable childcare. These
are it's it's maddening to think how long we have
been fighting these battles and that these conversations are still happening.
Our fore mothers would be probably disappointed that we are
still fighting these battles so many years later than we

have not won them yet. And even the ones that
we seemingly have one like access to abortion being technically legal,
we're on the defensive because technically legal isn't the same
as accessible and accessible to all people. So I think
that's such a great point and it's also a reminder
that we have to be vigilant. We have to be vigilant,

and that women have been busting their butts to win
these rights over for us for decades and it almost
as long as our country has existed and beyond. So
when this march to commemorate the Nineteenth Amendment occurred one
year later, to put it in stone and really commemorate
this as an annual date celebration, Congresswoman Bella Abzug, a

Democrat from New York, introduced a bill that would formally
establish National Equality Day or Women's Equality as a day
of recognition. But really we have to take a second,
bridget to talk about Congresswoman Bella Abzug, for whom Women's
Equality Day was actually one of the more symbolic pieces
of legislation that she's passed. This woman is a force

to be reckoned with. Was an absolute character and memorable
like history maker that I feel has not gotten her
fair share of of of space in our history books.
To be completely honest, totally so, I sadly had never
heard of her, But I have to just give a
quick plug if you like, stop this podcast and google

immature because you need to see what she looks like,
and also maybe quickly YouTube her. You have to hear
her the way that I could listen to her speak
all day. She did own. You just meet someone who
has a way of putting things and has a way
of speaking that you're just like. I could listen to
you talk about this issue all day. She's that person. Like,

google her immature and then start a petition for Kathy
Bates to play her in a movie. Please, I want
to watch this. Bella had a reputation for always wearing
big hats, just like one of my favorite lawmakers and
Florida always was a hat. And Bella was an attorney,
and she used to say that she wore big hats
so that she would be taken more seriously. After being
completely mistaken for secretary in her office time and time

and time again, she said, working women wear hats, that's
what they do. But to take it back even further.
Bella was born Bella Savinsky on July in New York City.
She comes from the Bronx, so she was actually born
one month prior to the Nineteenth Amendment being ratified. She
was destined for greatness exactly so she's she was the

child of Russian immigrants. She was a Jewish woman, and
she was really a bold and outspoken leading liberal activist
and politician who came to the forefront of progressive politics
in the sixties and seventies, especially known for her work
on women's rights, but also on behalf of the efforts
around civil rights, gay rights, and anti war efforts around Vietnam.

She started off her career knowing from an early age
that she wanted to be a lawyer. At Hunter College,
she demonstrated her natural leadership abilities as the president of
the student council there. She went on to earn her
law degree from Columbia University after being rejected from Harvard
Law School because of her gender. Harvard a terrible Harvard. UM.

I just love this quote about her, uh in Time magazine.
No one friend or enemy denies that Bella Abzug has
a certain presence. I just see her as from day one,
you know, whether it's like getting rejected from Harvard and
being like, screw your I'm going on to clumb there.
I had to see her taking charge since day one,
and I love it good because she her work was

needed and she knew that she was you know, she
needed that kind of force to be reckoned with attitude
to take on the kinds of fights she took on.
So she started in labor law, moved on to tackling
civil rights cases working for the a c. L U.
She took on the Willie McGee case. McGee was an
African American man convicted of raping a white woman in Mississippi,

thought by many at the time to be completely innocent.
Abzug faced death threats from many white supremacists for her
involvement in the case, and Uh she was while unsuccessful
tragically at getting him acquitted, she did managed to get
his death sentence delayed through appealing his conviction time and
time again. All of her efforts early on failed in

her career, giving her this huge blow um when sadly
and tragically McGhee was executed in nine many historians believe wrongfully.
So yeah, and I just think that it's so important
to note the ways that she has been this fighter
on these issues for so long, at the forefront of
so many different intersecting causes. She defended many people who

had been accused of communist activities by Joseph McCarthy, and
then later in the sixties she became involved in the
anti nuclear and peace and anti war movements. Again, these
were these great intersecting movements all around, sort of social
justice and social change. And it's kind of criminal that
we don't hear more about her, considering she was at
the forefront of so many of these movements that we
think of as formative, right, And she's this colorful, outspoken

some might even call her brash Jewish woman from the
bronx wearing giant hats. I mean, she is a character,
and she was good at what she did, and especially
in her six years in Congress, and just to sort
of paint a picture here of the woman that is
Congresswoman Bella Abzug. On her first day in her six
year tenure in Congress, she decided to make a pretty

bold move with putting forth a bill to remove all
US troops from Vietnam boom, like the first day, that's
sort of what she put out there. Now when the
measure didn't pass, it was the first of many efforts
of hers. Uh that didn't always lead to a successful outcome,
but nevertheless is part of Bella Abzug spirit, which is

to always fight for the causes that you believe in.
Didn't She really early on in her career formally dropped
legislation to have the president impeached. Yeah, she was one
of the first people to publicly call for the resignation, no,
the impeachment of President Richard Nixon. That is some Maxine
Waters level of of getting down to business. Like Bella

Abzug is not here to play around with you. She
came and she means business absolutely. After leaving the House
of Representatives in n she made a bid for New
York City mayor but lost to Ed Cotch in the primaries.
She was appointed by President Jimmy Carr Order to co
chair the National Advisory Committee for Women in nineteen seventy eight,
but the next year Carter dismissed the outspoken abzug Um,

which is kind of a sad mark on the history here.
But it wasn't the end of her fighting for the
causes that she believed in. She tried again for public
office in nineteen six UM but was unsuccessful then UH
And even while public office later eluded her, she continued
to work on many of the causes UH that she
cared about, specifically around establishing the Women's Environmental Development Organization.

I love this so much because it really puts her
on the level of a lot of my idols, like
because she worked with folks like Shirley Chisholm. She worked
with Gloria stein Um, these women that you think of
that's so foundational to our history, right our our four mothers.
She was right alongside with them working for social change
her whole life. I think it's important because she belongs
to be up there right with the Gloria Steinem's, with

Shirley Chisholms of the world, and she is in many
ways representing this category of women who we don't see
very often our history books, which is badass American, immigrant,
Jewish political women, our foremothers. Totally. I just love fella Abs.
Like now, I'm dying to see Kathy Bates player and
google image her and tell me Kathy Bates should not

play her in a movie. I'm telling you it's true,
It's absolutely true. And she's known for her outspokenness. Yeah,
and you've got to hear her accent. It's like from
the Bronx. She does not mess around. I would not
mess around with Congresswoman Bella Abs. Can you imagine if
she actually had been mayor would have been amazing? Amazing, amazing.
All right, So we're going to take a quick break,
but when we come back, I want to talk through

even further why remembering and celebrating the nineteen Amendments passage
is so important because we might think of it as
a done deal now, but back in it was far
from certain. We'll be right back after a word from
our sponsors, and we're back, and we've been talking through

the fascinating history behind Women's Equality Day, and where we
want to go next is just to highlight the fact
that we should very much be celebrating the Nineteenth Amendment
and the right for women to vote, because this was
far from an easy battle back in when the Nineteenth

Amendment was finally ratified. And what's funny here is that
it's important to note that some of the states were
way ahead of the game, states like where it wasn't
even a state at the time, but the Territory of
Wyoming became the first part of our country to grant
women the right to vote back in eighteen sixty nine,
which that surprises me. I wouldn't think it'd be a
state out west, but who you know who knew? What?

They call it the wild, wild wild women voting where
anything could happen, including something as radical and scandalous as
a lady vote. Women voting called called shariff. And then
came the Territory of Utah, the Territory of Washington, the
Territory of Montana, all in eighteen seventy eight three, and

eighteen eighties seven, respectively. Utah and Idaho came next, followed
shortly thereafter by uh Washington, d c, Oregon, Kansas, Arizona.
And it really took us all the way to nineteen
twenty to say, or really to nineteen nineteen, I should say,
for the US Congress to say, Okay, this is a
federal issue, thanks to Suffer dots really totally and so
you know, shout out to the badass organizing that these

that these women did. So at this point it really
comes down to Tennessee. It's really dragging its feet and
needs to get on board, so much so that in
August President Woodrow Wilson set things in motion by asking
Governor Roberts to call a special session of the Tennessee
Assembly just to deal with this. So at this point
it's like, get it together, you know, Tennessee needs to
stop dragon its feet and get some forward momentum on

this issue. And of course, just like anyone would when
a national issue, all hinges on one state house, what happens.
All the lobbyists, all of the energy, all the suffragettes
who have been fighting this good fight for a long time,
of course descend on Tennessee. It's I mean, I can
I would watch a movie of this. It's amazing. So

the Suffragette supporters were yellow roses, the antis were red roses.
The Senate went yellow, but the House wasn't evenly divided.
This is like the stuff that you know they write
that they write movies about. This is the kind of
palpable tension and drama that sometimes comes to politics, which
I love totally. I would watch this movie. In fact, Bridget,

there is a movie called One Woman, One Vote that
came out. Y'all should check out if you want to
see it. But I think this is ready for the
modern day screen. I would I want to see Hulu
produced the next Bella ab Cavy Bates. What more do
you need? A hot issue going to the wee hours
of the night in the Tennessee legislature. Yeah, And the

drama didn't end there. So when the Speaker of the
House seth Walker wearing a red rose, meaning he was
anti giving the vote to women, he entered a motion
to table the resolution, which we know in political speak
means let's never deal with this again. Let's just put
it in the dustbin of history and never see it
will never see the light of day exactly. So what

did that result? In? A tie? They called another vote
after the whips did their best whipping another tie, and
when the clerk began the third roll call vote, this
time about the resolution itself, not about whether to table
it or not, but a straight up and down vote
about whether or not to ratify the Nineteenth Amendment and
grant women the right to vote. One man who had

been wearing a red rose changed his colors. So the
famous story is that Harry Burne, year old from East Tennessee,
who had received had received a letter from his mother,
Phoebe e burn telling him to quote put the rat
in ratification. Um, I'm not exactly sure like what that
means if it's an expression, but basically maybe if you're

from Tennessee, please write it and let us know if
that's the thing that y'all say. But essentially she just meant,
you know, get this done and get it done. He did.
I love this that A young man, a twenty four
year old Representative, Harry Burne cast the deciding vote. So
the vote is over. They just voted to ratify the
Nineteenth Amendment, finally getting it through the final chamber of

the final Legislature. But the drama wasn't over yet because
still the Antis had the Speaker of the House in
their pocket. Right, so the Speaker of the House was Anti.
He was a red rose wearer, and he was starting
to get a vote called to try to reconsider the issue.
So he was trying to basically say, let's have a

do over, mulligans. Yeah, we just gave ladies the right
to vote. Let's let's give that another reconpere that. So
what happened was they thought they could build some more
support for the red row is wearing anti UH ratifiers.
But in anticipation of a reconsideration vote, thirty eight legislators,

thirty eight state legislators who had just voted for women's
right to vote left the state. They fled the state,
crossing the border into Alabama in order to prevent the
Assembly from having a quorum or having enough people present
to justify having a vote, which is part of the
wonky wonky rules of state legislatures um to prevent any
future voting from happening. So boom, it's done. I'm running away.

We can't redo this, and so you know, both sides,
of course, took legal action, tried to get lawyers to
say that it was a moot vote, and even after
a judge issued a temporary injunction restraining the governor from
giving the certificate of ratification to the Secretary of State,

and in doing so he said no women will vote
for a year and a half at least as some
reassurance to the anti ratifiers. But even then, the governor
said he would use the power of his office to
sign the certification, which is what he did. On August.
It was sent to Washington in uh pre internet times.
That meant this didn't happen until the next day. It

was sent to Washington, arriving just before four a m.
And on August the Nineteenth Amendment became part of the U.
S Constitution. Who happy ending? Um, I mean, I have
to I should probably add if I'm seeing a little
loopy on today's episode, it's because just last night I
was up all night watching the Senate floor debate on Obamacare,

and it's just reminding me how we think of politics
as this thing that happens with old white guys and
suits in Congress and blah blah blah. And that's certainly
part of it, but so much is late night drama,
you know, activists and organizers descending on one location and
waiting through the night on what's going to happen. And

this reading this story is taking me back to to
night where I'm up. It's three am. Your heart is pounding,
you don't know what's going to happen, and before your
very eyes, history gets made and it's it's it's amazing.
The country we live in is truly amazing, absolutely well said.
And it's those moments in politics that I think we

live for, and especially as activists who are fighting a
long fight for issues like this, that we are still fighting.
So with that, let's take a moment to take a
quick break, and when we come back, we're going to
talk about how epic of victory the Nineteenth Amendment was,
but how much it reminds us of the work that

has yet to be completed. We'll be right back, and
we're back, and we're doing a little happy dance after
celebrating the victory of ratification of the nineteenth Amendment. Is
a good thing to celebrate this August. So get get

your gal paths together and get your guide pals together,
and everybody celebrated. Quality. Equality is for everyone. Yeah. Um, However,
speaking of equality, Women's Equality Day doesn't quite do that
Legislative Victory Justice because actually the legislative Victory Justice doesn't

do that holiday right because just three years after the
ratification of the nineteenth Amendment. UH, the next move for
feminists in the nineteen twenties was seemingly obvious next step,
which was to introduce a constitutional amendment for the overall

equality of women, for women to be legally stated in
the Constitution as equal in rights on all fronts, not
just voting to male counterparts or to other people in general.
And so this piece of legislation, the Equal Rights Amendment,
known as the e R A, was end by Alice
Ross and introduced to Congress in nine and yet nineteen

twenty three, just three years after the ratification of the
nineteenth Amendment. It was super not popular, and it wasn't
even passed by Congress for another forty nine consecutive sessions.
So something to note is that this was kind of
a polarizing piece of legislation. UM. Even Eleanor Roosevelt was
opposed to it for many many years, and one of

her major objections but she questioned how the e R
A would impact protective labor legislation for rules that guarded
for issues around for hours or dangerous work conditions for
women specifically. And so this wasn't like a you know,
something that everyone was on board with quiet. The opposite
was a little bit polarizing. And so it's interesting that
here we are, so many years later and it's still

you know, yeah, and the Equal Rights Amendment just says
that women are equal to men. It says that women
should be protected as equal citizens and treated as equal citizens.
But I can't help but think back to our episod
out on benevolent sexism, right, b because this idea of
women at the time, Eleanor Roosevelt at the time saying no,
no, no no, we can't legally treat women as equal, we

have to treat them as special. Right, it is so benevolent.
I was thinking back to our episode around nipples, where
you know, that's just one of those issues where men
and women are not equal in the eyes of the law.
And so clearly you might think that we've come a
long way, and certainly we have, but we still have
these these battles to fight. And so finally Congress does
pass the Equal Rights Amendment, but only after years and

decades of reintroduction. It finally passes it on March nine,
two two years after women are marching the streets of
New York City celebrating the nineteenth Amendment passage and ratification,
and one year after Bella Abzug makes August twenty six
Women's Equality Day. A year later, we're still fighting for

the equal rights of women. And so here we go again,
another round of how to actually make a constitutional amendment.
So back in back in the first case on the
nineteenth Amendment, of course it all came down to Tennessee,
but this time Tennessee wasn't even on the list of
of of states that held it up. Unfortunately, the list
was a long one. Yeah, Tennessee, definitely. I think they

learned their lesson this time. They didn't want any of
this drama. So by nineteen seventy seven, the legislatures of
thirty five states had approved the amendment. In nineteen seventy eight,
Congress voted to extend the original March nineteen seventy nine
deadline to June thirtieth nine and eighty two. However, no
additional states voted yes before that date, and the e
r A fell three just three states short of ratification.

These fifteen states that did not ratify the e r
A before the nineteen eight two deadline were Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Nevada,
North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Utah, and Virginia. So basically,
they took the most passive aggressive policy stance possible, which

is to get from Congress a congressionally past constitutional amendment
that just needs your two bodies of the state legislature,
the state Senate in the state House to sign off
on for this thing to actually become the law of
the land. And fifteen states drag their feet. We've got
between nineteen seventy two and the original deadline ninety nine.

That's what that's like, seven years to get it together.
Seven years that go by them saying, you know what's
not a priority this year, let's just not hold a vote,
or let's hold a vote and vote no on the
e r A. And also the fact that we're talking
about just a law that says that men and women
are equal in the eyes of the law. That's it's
not a groundbreaking thing. It's not it shouldn't be an

earth shattering thing. The fact that we couldn't just all
get on board with that, it's pretty wild. It's pretty telling,
I think for all the worker country still has to
do so. Even upon extending the deadline to two they
still don't pass it, which is the great unfinished business
of Women's Equality Day. How can we really celebrate Women's
Equality Day, you know, celebrating the ratification of the nineteenth

Amendment without acknowledging that there was another amendment that the
states had the same obligation to pass, to vote on
that we just have not gotten it together for so really,
what this demonstrates, I think, is how far we've come,
but how much more we have to go. The fact
that we still don't have this thing passed. It's still
not the law of the land. All the stuff they

fought for, all the hard earned rights that they were
in the streets marching for and making noise about and
clawing for. Here we are, twenties seventeen, still doing the
same thing. Yeah, and I'm not I'm unclear as to
whether or not, you know, legally we can just pass
it in these states now and make it a thing,
because I think because the deadline already passed, Congress has
to retake the issue. So I'm not exactly optimistic of

Donald Trump's Republican controlled I can't even call it his
Congress because I don't think they like him very much
right now either. But in seventeen I don't think this
Congress is going to prioritize the r A. But we
need our members of Congress to make this an issue,
to pass it once again, to send it back on
to the states for ratification. But you know, in the meantime,
we've seen some symbolic gestures, like in this past March,

forty five years to the day that the Congress first
passed the e r A, Nevada became the thirty sixth
state to ratify it. But I really I don't even
think that makes a difference. At this point, the deadline
has passed. So I would like to see our politicians
are political leaders, stop giving the Equal Its Amendment lip
service and start actually making it a priority because until then,

technically we do not have equal rights under the law. Totally,
I completely agree, and I think you hit the nail
on the head in terms of symbolic things like we
have all of these monuments that are meant to symbolically
pay tribute to the e r A under these women
into equality, but that doesn't really do anything for us.
We need actual legislation, not monuments. And so I'm thinking
of President Barack Obama's administration, who formerly made the seawall,

Belmont House, and a museum a part of a national
monument to celebrate women's his three at National Park sites.
And that's obviously great, but that's not legislation. And as
nice as that is, as much as I love Barack Obama,
that perhaps does not help women as much as pat
getting this stuff passed. Right. So this August, let us
do two things. One, let's commemorate and accelebrate the tremendous

passage of the nineteenth Amendment, which we know now more
than ever hopefully was a big deal and not a
not a sure thing at any point in time. Let's
celebrate our right to vote. Let's make sure that we're
all registered to vote. Let's get your friends registered to vote.
Let's make sure all the women in our lives are
exercising that hard thought right that we have. But let's

also not lose sight of the fact that we have
some serious unfinished business in terms of the Equal Rights Amendment.
Here here, Emily, I cannot agree more. And one of
the other things I wanted to highlight was y'all our
four mothers. I know I keep saying this, but this
was a hard earned right. Are we using our ninth
Amendment to the best of your ability? You might be thinking,
but Bridget I voted in the presidential election and that

is awesome. But are you voting in your local elections?
Are you voting for your school board election? Do you
know who your sheriff is? Do you know all of
these things? So, honestly, let's let's use these rights that
our four mothers bought for it. Let's use them loudly
and proudly and make sure that we're living up to
what they've given us to the best of our ability.
I cannot have said it better. Bridget Todd, the one

and only. I love it Alright, sminthy listeners, we want
to hear from you. What do you think about the
hard fought battle for the nineteenth Amendment and for the
unfinished business that should be our next constitutional amendment, the
Equal Rights Amendment. Send us a tweet at mom Stuff Podcast,
leave your comments on our Instagram at stuff Mom Never
Told You, And as always, we love getting your listener

mail at mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com.

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The Nikki Glaser Podcast

The Nikki Glaser Podcast

Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.

Music, radio and podcasts, all free. Listen online or download the iHeart App.


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