Women's Magazines, Diet Culture and Sex Advice

SMNTY continues flipping through the history and impact of women's magazines, this time focusing on diet culture and sex advice.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to steff
I never told you production of iHeartRadio, and.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
We are coming back with an additional episode of women's
magazines and Dot Dot Dot because well, I have elongated
once again a very wide broad subject into several episodes.
It's not going to be the same amount as religious
trauma episode. Thank god, it's not going to be twenty thousand.

(00:42):
I think I'm going to keep it at a succinct three, okay,
because I have topics in mind, and with that, if
you haven't already, we would suggest going back to our
earlier episode on the history of women's magazines, because we
kind of break it down on how it began, what
it looked like, all of that, and even the problems
back then. Because for today, we are talking about the

(01:04):
state of women's magazines slash publications today, and I do
see publications because obviously they're like the handheld copy of
a magazine is less and less and you're more likely
going to see digital, which, funny enough, I kept running
into paywalls because I need to call somebody about that

(01:28):
because that was an issue anyway. Yeah, Annie, did you
have do you have currently or did you have at
any point a favorite magazine or did you even have
a subscription.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
I looked this up because I knew we were going
to be talking about this. I didn't have a subscription.
I bought entertainment weekly, not infrequently if it was a
movie or a celebrity I like. I had a subscription
to Disney Adventures, which was kind of a small magazine format.

(02:04):
You're not seeing what I can do, but like imagine,
size wise, most magazines are like eight by eleven.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
This one was sort of a third of that.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Maybe that's probably way off, but it was smaller, and
I think I got it. I originally subscribed to it
because I loved the Ulsen twins and they were somehow
they were featured in it quite frequently. But I remember
very vividly, and I don't know if we're going to
talk about this in this episode of the next but
Ryan Gosling was on the cover one time as young Hercules,

(02:35):
and I had the cover. I took out like all
the relevant pages and saved them. But it wasn't him.
That's that's not why I started subscribing. It wasn't him,
But I did save all of those and I remember
the cover.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
So clear now.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
I mean we do use a lot of magazines for work.
I think I'm still in the same, Like, if it's
like a Star Wars magazine, I'll it. I went through
a big I think Entertainment Weekly is pretty like it's
been the same. I have a lot of friends who
like seventeen, I went through a Time magazine period.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, it's more like if I see something like, oh
I really want that, it's less about a subscription thing, right.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
I remember Time magazine covers like nobody's business. For some reasons,
those stand out. Kudos to the art director and the
photographers because they would do their thing to make sure
they would stand out. But then, like, I never had
a subscription when I was growing up, my friends did,
so I would go over to their houses and we
would just go through the magazines and then like talk

(03:38):
about them. I want to say, like, I was really
into music more so than anything else. I remember distinctly
a picture of Salt and Peppa because they were one
of my favorite groups when I was in middle school,
so I remember seeing them a lot. But I never
really had any magazines. Again, my mother had Southern living

(03:59):
in her house, and I think she had good housekeeping
in her house. And I think some of these subscriptions
were fundraising subscriptions.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
Oh yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
What I'm talking about. Like I remember, like that used
to be a thing way back when you could buy
wrapping paper as school fundraisers. But also you could buy
subscriptions of magazines for a good deal, seventeen dollars for
a year subscription, so that's twelve magazines.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
I brought this back a stressful memory that I'd forgotten
because I was one of the kids that would try
to sell those wrapping papers.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
It was the worst. I hated it. It's like I'm
a failure. I can't sell anything.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
Well, you know, there was this episode. I don't know
if anybody watched Parenthood at any point in time. They
are now gone, and there's some problematic things in that
whole show, but I really enjoyed it. And one of
the big episodes was that the kid was selling the
Christmas paper for his baseball team to get uniforms and such,
and he forgot and didn't do it, and so he

(05:05):
already had the paper, which was odd to me because
that was not the thing you had to do it
sign up for or whatever. But like uh, he yells
at his mom for not being rich enough to just
order it herself and not have to sell it. And
I remember thinking that was a thing. The parents would
be rich enough that they are the grandparents would just

(05:26):
buy it all and they wouldn't have to worry about
it because it was so stressful. It's like, what is
this anyway? Wow, that's just yeah, on the whole tangent
on that one. But yeah, subscription magazines were a thing
as well. And really I remember it being way back
when in some movies that there were door to door salesmen.
He would sell these as well. So it was a thing.

(05:48):
It was a racket, and now it kind of has
become a whole different thing with the digital world and
print may be dying. Slash kind of is we all
love it somehow. But with that some context, now that
we're actually talking about magazines, y'all, before we begin, we
are going to be talking about body and fat shaming

(06:09):
as well as body dysmorphia and sexual content in this episode,
So Happy Valentine's Day well ahead of time. Also, there's
a lot of backlash that came out against women's magazines
not too long ago. The other there was a whole
reckoning in like two thousand and twenty ten. Uh. But
also a lot of our information comes from then, so

(06:32):
it is fairly dated. Like I said, it looks like
more people were likely to look into how the magazines
have become or can become more feminists or empowering. So
that's good and that's more recent, but in like the
late nineties. Also we have some articles from the late nineties,
so yeah, this is pretty dated nineties, early two thousands
and twenty tens where we're talking about the problems with

(06:56):
magazines and women's magazines specifically.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
So just that heads up. I think they still hold
up because the same argument is repeating itself, and there
was a lot of like overlapping of social media and
magazines as well, so when we talk about it, especially
when it comes to like teen stuff, it may be interchangeable.
A lot of the research that we saw from like
thesis and research papers again come from the late nineties

(07:22):
and two thousands era, early two thousands era, because again,
like I said, there was a big record and'll be like,
why are we doing this? Why are you still doing this? You'
all have a problem. So it's good to see that
that happened. It's sad to see it's still happening.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah, ignore right now.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
A lot of when I'm checking out the grocery store,
a lot of the times, all kind of magazines, I'm like, wow, still.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Okay, y'all, there's the cabbage diet. Cabbage soup diet is
still really big, apparently because I love cabbage soup. I
don't do it for that sake, but I would try
to find the recipe. All the articles have it, and
I was like, what, I just like cabbage soup. What's
happening anyway? Yeah, and it's something to note that the
print in itself has faded and moved towards digital or online,

(08:11):
and we'll probably talk about that in the last episode.
I'm going to say the next one is the last episode.

Speaker 3 (08:17):
I'm trying to convince yourself it's.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Going to happen. I've narrowed it down to the two
specific subjects so I don't vary, so.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
Okay, well, we'll see, we'll see. I would also say,
go check out our episode we did on fanzines because
we did talk about some of this stuff in there.
Yes as well, but yes, okay, women's magazines today there are. Yes,
a lot of women's magazines still and according to the
Library of Congress, they estimate quote more than seventy five

(08:46):
thousand periodicals are published each year in the United States
and Canada alone, and that number swells to over one
hundred and twenty five thousand worldwide. Consumer magazines alone account
for more than twenty thousand North American titles. Women's magazines
have consistently ranked in the top ten magazine categories. Of course,
this includes all the different types of magazines and the

(09:09):
articles from twenty twenty three, so the numbers are not
quite exact, but it's big.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
I would say it's still pretty close twenty.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
Two eight, yeah, three, ten years ago or a month ago.
We are going to kind of just delve into this
ugly side of women's magazine. So, like we said earlier,

(09:38):
the women's magazine industry has already had some shakeups and
revamping what they are doing or how they were portraying
women overall. And we mentioned this later, but yes, this
is all cis heteronormative. Just go ahead and put that there. Okay,
Unfortunately we will kind of dapple into it, but not really.

(09:59):
So this is the way they focus it is making sure,
women are women, and I say that sarcastically and not
with that belief in that conversation and that type of statement,
and that women all want a husband. Again, obviously not
what we think so but this is how it's going
to come out. But again, we can't ignore the massive

(10:20):
impact they have had overall in general to society. We
talked a bit about the way early periodicals transformed women's
fashion and encourage women to become more in tune with
their habits and housekeeping, but it would continue to influence women,
specifically when it came to body image, which quickly became

(10:42):
a moneymaker for I think all of the magazine is
not many, I think all of them. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
In fact, according to a thesis done by Jamie S.
Nobles from the University of Southern Mississippi in twenty fourteen
discussing the depiction of women's body image and magazines from
nineteen fifty two to night teen ninety five, and it
talks about how advertisements within magazines changed over the years
to influence women. They talk about how body types and

(11:10):
models changed throughout history and also why that might be.
Here's a quote. The hypothesis stated that the depictions of
women would shift from curvy to thin women, but most
of the magazine advertisements depicted women as fit slash average
in the nineteen fifties, and the ads moved on to
lean models as the years progressed. Although actresses like Marilyn

(11:31):
Monroe were curvier and were thought to be sex symbols,
the models in the magazines did not reflect her type
of voluptuousness. There were fewer depictions of full figured women
in the magazines than any other category. Most of the
models were fit slash average until the nineteen seventies, and
then the number of lean models spiked. Of the one
hundred and eighty images viewed, lean was the most found

(11:55):
model size, with ninety of the one hundred eighty models
perceived as lean. Fit slash average had the second highest number,
with sixty six of the advertisement scene as healthy athletic build.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Okay, of course, as voluptuous and curvy as Marilyn Monroe was,
she would not be considered a plus or large size.
In fact, her waist size would have been more like
a small or even an extra small, and one site
said even smaller than that, like it wasn't even on

(12:27):
a category of what we would see today. And though
she was medium at the top, according to the clothes
that people that the researchers have measured, and her hips,
and she did have hips, she would not have been
considered plus size today at all. Again, many want to
claim that because they says she wore size sixteen, she

(12:47):
wears six sixteen, that they accord to French clothing, and
most of her clothing were tailored to her. But yes,
she was curvy, sure on a different standard. Like that's
that's a whole different conversation. I think waste size was
typically twenty four inches small, and it got as big
as maybe twenty seven. And from what I also found,

(13:11):
like it says that she uh probably weighed from anywhere
from like one hundred and four to one hundred and fourteen,
and the most you's ever gotten was one forty And
for her being I think five to four that's not huge,
that's not plus size. Let's just we just we're just
gonna put that there in Some of the changes in
who was being advertised or what was being advertised actually

(13:33):
has a lot to do with trending diet culture. Diet
culture has been around for a long time, to the
Greek days. They said because the whole athletic look and
all of that, and is a money making machine. We've
talked about this with like influencers and all of that.
This is a money maker according to different reports. Uh

(13:55):
And I will say I was very confused and maybe
I don't understand the verbiage between like value market versus
whatever else, because the numbers were everywhere, So I was
like what And again this could have something to do
with they only had something that was specific to weight
management versus things like food, which even though they may
not be diet culture, they use and use that influence anyways,

(14:16):
like milk probably could still be considered that level as well.
So who knows. But with that estimated value of the
dieting industry, slash market is as high as over four
hundred billion dollars and seemingly increasing every year obviously, although
it did take a little bit of a dip when
a few years ago the whole body positivity became more

(14:39):
popular and more accepted, which I miss But then we
now have the usage of products like ozimbic, which is
being used as a cure all for weight loss and
a giant money maker as well. It's no secret that
the magazine industry has had a hand with grown this

(15:01):
specific culture. Here's another quote from that same thesis. So
why did women's bodies depictions should from fit average to lean?
The researchers believes that the key to that is the
fitness exercise boom of the nineteen seventies. By the seventies,
Americans awareness of fitness grew, and with that the role
of exercise in American lives expanded, and exercise became part

(15:23):
of the recreational pastimes. Jogging was one of the most
popular forms of fitness. For example, the New York Marathon,
which had previously only had approximately three hundred participants in
nineteen seventy two, expanded to include more than eleven thousand
competitors in nineteen seventy nine. With the influence of the
Women's Movement and Title nine, an act that imposed gender

(15:44):
equality in sports opportunities in educational organizations, a large number
of women took up sports for the first time in
the nineteen seventies.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
Right and it continues. The average size of men and
women continued to rise during this time, and obesity numbers
exploded in the nineteen eighties. As food is made more
readily available, a fewer people cook at home, turning America
into a fast food nation. Because of the fitness boom
and the increasing waistband of Americans, the diet industry takes
off and by the nineteen eighties is a multi billion

(16:14):
dollar a year industry. Within the structure of that industry,
there is a great deal at stake to keep women
hooked into the obsession about their beauty, their weight, and
their dieting practices. Advertisements that show women who are impossibly
thin and beautiful despite their rising obc rates are showing
women what they should aspire to become. Women try to

(16:36):
achieve the impossible, and so they buy the diet products
that only guarantee a temporary solution to their weight problems.
When the diet is over, the women will most likely
gain the weight they lost plus some. The women then
see the perfect women in the magazine adds and experience
body dissatisfaction and decide to purchase more diet products. Thus
an endless circle is created. The fact that diets do

(16:59):
not work is the best kept secret in the diet industry.
Only long term lifestyle changes will help women to lose
weight and stay healthy by presenting an ideal difficult to
achieve and maintain, the cosmetic and diet product industries are
assured of growth and profits. The shift the researchers saw
from fit slash average women to lean women could be

(17:21):
rooted in an economic ploy to keep women reaching for
the unattainable.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
Right, And I think that's such a big emphasis. This
is a ploy. Yeah, which why the back and forth
fat diets are huge. Atkins not a sponsor does not
want you to keep that weight off. They want you
to continue to buy their products and tell you that's
the only way you're going to maintain that way.

Speaker 3 (17:44):
Right.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
There's so many things, of course, and we're going to
talk a little bit about this later, Like this can
also create dangerous habits, which is really really unfortunate for
later times. And I will say I bought into this
and sometimes still do still do because I am so
insecure and I've been taught I need to be skinny,

(18:07):
and skinny means being a size three, which is impossible
for me, like it will never happen, but for some
reason in my head, I must, And therefore the pills
that I see on self magazines is definitely gonna help me.
It is not.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's really it's effective. Get it in
your head and you think, well, if I just do
this and do this, but I remember doing it, especially
like in college.

Speaker 3 (18:34):
And it was exhausting. It was exhausting, and like the
payout wasn't much.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
And that wasn't I grew up hungry in high school
and college, and I am so sad that I missed
out on food. Right, I literally ate pasta and that
was one time of day. And I still I think
I've trained myself so badly to not eat that I
don't eat. And I know you know that level as well.
I've gotten better about it. I've gotten better. But if

(19:05):
I'm busy or if I'm overwhelmed, that's the first thing
to go, yeah, because that's something I can control. But
we know that's so with unattainable goals that continue to
motivate tempt women. Other very specific magazines also came into play.
Magazines like Shape, Women's Health, and again Self and other
such magazines are riddled with adverts that promise the perfect

(19:26):
body in a short amount of time. According to another
research paper that was published in Turkey, the influence of
magazines like Women's Health and Cosmo continue to not only
perpetuate the perfect body, but also the idea that perfection
is only found within westernized standards. Here's the quote from
that paper. The magazine often advises women to watch their

(19:48):
weight all the time by eating certain light mils and
drinking certain healthy drinks, helping to detox the body. Nevertheless,
the magazine often shows dieting as such an easy thing
which women do not have to worry about by getting
into stress. As Kim and Lennon, which was a researcher previously,
have mentioned. However, dieting is in fact a painful thing,

(20:11):
especially for women who have excess weight. Therefore, the magazine
always puts ideal beauty standards in front of women, and
it expects them to reach those high standards by looking
good and young. Therefore, the female readers are implicitly advised
that they need to groom, shop, diet, do fitness, and
take care of their bodies to preserve a perfect image

(20:32):
that is related with that white ideal beauty. And that's
we don't really talk about this at all in that level.
We do talk a little bit about the fact that
it is oppression, This type of culture is oppression, but
the fact that the majority of what we see are
all until recently, like Kim Kardashian and like hip hop
stars have kind of changed that a little bit. I

(20:54):
feel like Korean pop stars have now brought it back
to this Western idea that you have to be skin
a skinny skinny, as one woman was quoted saying, being
wraith like is ideal, and I think that's kind of
the issue. And by the way, we also are not
talking at all about the cosmetic industry, which, like I said,

(21:15):
I picked and choose because we did talk about that
before with influencers and such as that. But yes, the
other if if there was a chart, I'm sure it
was like forty five percent diet culture of forty cosmetics
and ten percent good luck fashion.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
I'm just kidding, yeah, fashion, because I if you want
to go back and listen to some episodes we've done.
But like things like shaving, that was largely due to
the fabric that was popular at the time, and it
was advertised magazines like if you want to wear this fabric,
you have to shave. So a lot of things like
that and also oddly enough past the co host leave

(22:00):
it was Christian Caroline. It was a long time ago
talked about Barbie. One of the reasons Barbie is so thin,
it's cheaper to make clothing for someone who's very thin, right,
So it's also very beneficial for the fashion industry.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
Right in general. And that's the part is that we
also don't talk about this, but I found an article
upon article about talking about the fact that being in
this die culture, being thin gives more advantages to this
idea of thin privilege, gives more advantages to those who
are thin, typically white as well as Yes, it's cost

(22:35):
effective because the clothing is cheaper as well, because for
some reason, anything that is beyond a size eight needs
to be ten dollars extra, if not fifty.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yeah, yeah, and they should be. We'll put a big
asterisk on that because there's also been things that are like,
what are you doing It's not really yeah, but anyway,
that is there what they.

Speaker 3 (22:55):
Have said, Yes, yes, yes, okay.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
But to go back to this research article we've been quoting,
they continue with this warning, however, the women who over
exercise and diet unfortunately engage in unhealthy behaviors such as
eating disorders as a result. In other words, the magazine
expects Turkish women to transform their bodies to a lighter
size and resemble the Western ideal of beauty, which not

(23:21):
only means culturally assimilating the curvy body, but also anticipating
to invite diseases such as anorexia or bolimia in the
long term.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
Right. Yeah, you know there's been cultures where I'm like, yeah,
these are my people. I want to be here because
my body looks more like them. Yeah, and they like
me better because of that.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
I have to say, I unfortunately witnessed this in other
countries where people will tell me, oh, I'm not going
to eat for a couple of days, and I'd be like, what, like, oh, yeah,
I need to lose weight, and they would just say
it and I would be like, oh.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Oh right, this whole level with again, like Europeans, no
hate to any Europeans, but like they will talk about
the fact that they can't they can't look as big
as Americans or whatever whatnot, and so what they do
is not eat for a few days and that's absolutely normal.
Like that's like, that's so sad, don't you miss it?

Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah, Also, like no offense, I've done it, but it
is not gonna last.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
It's not gonna Yeah, you're only causing yourself trouble and headaches,
literal headaches. Yes, And while we are here, let's just
remind ourselves that though we are coming back to the

(24:45):
idea that dieting is good and being skinny is the
only way to exist, yes, it's a sarcasm, it's not,
And that this movement in itself is anti like just
anti everything in so many ways. Yes.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
From the National Alliance for Eating Disorders. Diet culture quote
encompasses the collective beliefs and practices that promote the pursuit
of weight loss as the ultimate marker of health and wellbeing.
It is a pervasive force that permeates various aspects of
our lives, from media portrayals of ideal bodies to the
messages we receive from friends, family, and even healthcare professionals.

(25:24):
Diet culture often emphasizes the importance of adhering to strict
eating regimens, promoting quick fixes, and advocating for the thin ideal.
It's based on fallacies like one food is better than another,
People who are thin are healthier, people who are thin
or more attractive. Higher weight bodies are a result of
poor health choices. Individuals have full control over their health

(25:46):
and appearance right.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
And in that article it talks about health ism, which
is this narrative which a lot of healthcare professionals have done,
which blame everything on being overweight and ignoring the actual
health and problems, and it is anti obviously. There was
an interesting TikTok video too of this young young baby

(26:10):
girl who calls herself a life coach saying that tomatoes
make you fat. That was it and she I think
was trying to say when she was apologizing later on
was everybody went after her, was that it hurts her
stomach and because of the ascid and they're like, that's
completely different. That is completely different from they make you fat. Okay,

(26:33):
calm down. But yeah, so with that, I mean it's
it's cultures like this that feed into that kind of narrative.
And yeah, this culture literally demonizes fatness. And again this
is from the National Alliance. With this connection to Christianity
and morality, which we didn't talk about. We did kind

(26:54):
of talk about being the perfect housewife. That means having
the perfect body. The thought is the whole keeping the
body clean and holy or keeping it yeah, and keeping
it tight for your spouse like they meant to you
can't be getting that pot belly. I've heard that said.
Literally a pastor, a preacher like his last name is Graham,

(27:15):
apparently he's there is the founder of Grant.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
Dont on this whole subject, oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
But he was one of those that preached this idea
that our body and being skipping a meal is for God.
Of course we didn't talk about this in the ruligious
trauma God I just haunts me, I swear. But yeah,
the idea of fascinating which wasn't holy idea for sure,
but is used by many people to lose weight.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yes, yes, and we have discussed this before. This is
ingrained in our culture to a point that I think
a lot of people don't realize. We've had listeners write
in and be like you were saying something terrible like
people should lose weight, Like okay, but just real quickly,
Graham created Graham crackers to like stop people from masturbating.

Speaker 3 (28:06):
Yes, and he told me does yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
And now he hated sugar and he basically thought you
should like not experience food really if you really sin,
it was a moral issue.

Speaker 3 (28:17):
And now grabcrackers.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
I'm so much sugar in them, and it gives me joy.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
I wonder what his family thinks of that legacy.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
I mean, if they're getting the money, they probably don't care.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
I mean, but like, are they ashamed of that legacy
or are they what I mean, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (28:35):
Sure?

Speaker 1 (28:35):
And it's also like you know, I do get joy
out of it, but it is we also have a
kind of whole issue with sugar in this country and
what's added, so you know, but it does give me
joy that he's like in his grave.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
Different conversation, But f y about Graham crackers, because what
do we do but go on tangents. In the first rate,
my teacher, who was one of my favorite teachers, would
have us give us graand crackers and then give us
frosting and let us cover it with frosting and candy,
and that would be our snack. And boy did I

(29:10):
frost both sides.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
I mean, you use it to build gingerbread houses.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
And it's great, it's true, but I remember that snack
like nobody's business, thanks miss right. And with that, this
this diet culture actually supports system of oppression. So when
we say where it is anti I mean it's anti uh,
it is anti black. And we've talked about it before,
how this movement, how uh, the fat phobia is real
racist ideals, especially when it comes to oppressing people and

(29:40):
who it oppresses and how they use it against people
of color, specifically black people. It holds up the patriarchy
because once again, this is for the sake of men,
oftentimes the way you look, especially when we talk about
looking your best for your husband, for this, for your
for your next day, for prom all recipes.

Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
And then it reinforces once again the idea of thin privilege,
which exists. And people may say, like we talked about
have we ever talked about pretty privilege and thin privilege?

Speaker 3 (30:14):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (30:14):
Again, it's a weird thing though, because I know we
talked about it on the video series.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
I don't know, Okay, Okay, maybe we need to come back,
because that's like it keeps coming back around in that
conversation about who gets what and why and who gets
the raises and who who gets hired? And these are
those conversations. Yeah, and it's an industry that has made
billions of dollars on things that don't work or that

(30:39):
don't last and are not realistic, and uses your insecurities
based on what society dictates to you is good or
is the best?

Speaker 1 (30:51):
Yes, and it's It can be heartbreaking when you know
someone who's doing it and they're like eating this one
food and they'll tell you, like, I've heard this one
will work.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
Right according to this magazine. I got these recipes and
I'm going to stick to it. Yeah, two almonds for breakfast,
and I'm like that measuring stuff.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
Wow, Oh my god, Oh my god, and the alliance
ends with quote. This diet culture fosters negative body image,
and it perpetuates unrealistic beauty standards and a serious weight stigma.
This toxic mindset contributes to body dissatisfaction and low self esteem. Additionally,

(31:30):
diet culture significantly increases the risk of developing eating disorders,
as the obsession with food restriction and control can trigger
disordered eating patterns and severe psychological distress. The harmful impact
of diet culture on both short term well being and
long term mental and physical health is the stark reminder
of the urgent need to challenge and dismantle this harmful ideology.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
Right, So, yes, that's not necessarily about magazines, but just
the reason why we think this is probably and even
though it seems harmless to have five exercises to tone
up your abs. It does contribute to this culture. So
just as a reminder, be careful. Oh and with all
that out of the way, let's talk about how magazines

(32:17):
in general have really really influenced women in sex and
the different ideas. Yes, again, if you're hanging out with
kids on this one, we're gonna read some things. I
think it might make you blush.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
Annie, I'm like pre blushing just thinking about it.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
So I believe you're right.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
So FYI, you might want to pause and take the
young one out or put EarPods in, however you need to.
And I have to admit that, as someone who lived
in the world of purity culture, I believed in it.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
Y'all.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
Annie, I didn't tell you this. My mother brought over
a tubfull of my childhood things. She's moving me out officially,
for real, for real. You've got a house. Taking this right,
and in it on the top, I find a certificate.
It says marriage certificate, and it is my marriage certificate

(33:12):
to Jesus WHOA So when I say when I say
I was in that culture and it is pristinely kept,
my mother made sure that it was kept all perfect
on top, unlike unlike me living in sin today, which

(33:34):
she has accepted and loves my partner. But anyway, when
I say yes, I lived in that purity culture, I
honestly didn't know much about sex until probably late twenties.
And though of course I understood the general concept. Yes,
I have seen things. I've seen movies. I would often
turn to different magazines like Cosmo, like Glamour, Red Book

(33:59):
and even seventeen to find out what men liked. Yeah, yeah,
those those got me. Those articles got me. If I
had a question about oral sex, I would often see
an article and in those magazines, and I would try
to take as many notes as possible. Annie, Yes, I

(34:22):
heard did like, oh you do this and that, and
that's why that seems weird. But okay whatever, And I
know I'm not the only one because that sold. I
will say that that like we might have hidden in
and we might have giggled and not said it out loud,
but we sure did read it from relationship advice on

(34:43):
how to keep a man wanting more. Magazines were a
reference source for so many, so many women. In fact,
magazines are often how young people would educate themselves on
those embarrassing or even panicked situations. Margaret Singer was actually
arrested in nineteen fourteen for her book, but also for
her articles in The New York Call that covered topics

(35:06):
of sex, birth control, and STIs for so many people
who desperately needed that information.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
And later in nineteen sixty, after the debut of the
Playboy magazine, which is a whole different conversation, the magazine
featured its Advisor column, offering advice not only on sex,
relationships and life as well. And by the way, according
to a Vice article and a podcast released by iHeart
and Crooked Media titled Stifft, the first ever erotic magazine

(35:34):
for women was published in nineteen seventy three by the
same dude who started Penthouse, Bob Guccioni, which was titled Viva,
and according to that article, they quote paired feminist writing
from women like Betty Friedan and Erica Jong and stories
on anti rape groups and female circumcision with full frontal

(35:56):
male nudity and frank sex advice as the first erotic
women's magazine and embodied the fight to push forth the
conversation about women's sexuality amid the patriarchal influence of the decade.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
And in that article is including the actual creator, Bob Guccione,
who we know is interesting. And though it was acceptable
for with gay magazines at the time to talk openly
about sex and relationships, it wasn't so much for ladies magazines.

(36:29):
It took a little while later for the first one
to pop up in nineteen sixty five in the Cosmo
magazine the then editor in chief Helen Gurley Brown, which
she has a really great quote about why wouldn't every
woman want to be a feminist? Which I was like, yes,
come on, now, she may have been one of our people's,
kind of a white woman of our people's, but you

(36:51):
know what I mean. But she was the then editor
in chief, and she revamped the magazine from being geared
toward housewives to more so single career ladies and published
an article on birth control pills in her first credited
issue of the magazine. So she was ready to go.
She was ready to go talking about all these things,

(37:13):
and more magazines started following suit with the articles written
by the opposite sex to teach the other sex how
to satisfy or how to keep their relationships attacked. So
Oftentimes they would feature men to tell women whatever the
advice was, and then vice versa. For men's magazines, they
would have women come on and give advice as well,

(37:34):
so you know things happen. Many famous examples are still
talked about today from Dear Abby, which is more wholesome,
but did have questions about relationships that she would talk
about to writers like Candace Bushnell from Sex and the
City fame, who wrote for The New York Observer in

(37:55):
her advice.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
Here's the quote from get Me Giddy dot com, which
is the sexual health related site. Thank you, Samantha for
having me say this. In the late nineties and early
two thousands, less historically raunchy women's magazines began adding sex
to their usual topics of coverage in order to attract
more readers. Ladies Home Journal printed its first Behind Closed

(38:17):
Doors sex column in two thousand, and Red Book began
running it sex column Red Hot Sex that same year.
Soon sex wasn't just a topic reserved for magazines known
for their edginess. It was an expected part of mainstream
women's publications. Men's magazines underwent a similar shift, with magazines
like Esquire and GQ, both founded in the thirties and

(38:40):
originally focused on fashion, increasingly covering sex.

Speaker 2 (38:43):
Right. Yeah, So I was just really excited that you
got to say the name of that site, get megiddy
dot com, which some of a really helpful site. But
I was like, what, And because I can't resist a

(39:09):
good read through of ridiculous things, here's a few of
the worst sex tips Annie, he's already blushing. Of the
worst sex tips from women's magazines, according to Mackenzie Z. Kennedy,
who blessed us with these quips seven years ago. So
as a seven year old post for Filthy, So here's one.

(39:31):
Bring your lover on your food shopping excursion. View it
as sentual foreplay. You can have a lot of fun
caressing and gently squeezing foods and inhaling their aromas. The
conversation should be entertaining too, And I will say, I
guess aie, you had a kind of related thing with food,
so maybe maybe.

Speaker 1 (39:53):
Also look go back to your episode we did on
the movie Fresh.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
Sometimes this doesn't work out, oh lord.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Because they didn't have all the grocery sing, didn't they?
I forgot about that. Okay, here's another one. Make two
fists around a shaft, and twist them in opposite directions
as hard as you can under this advice, Kennedy wrote,
this really bad sex tip has been inspiring people to
write about bad sex tips because it's literally telling you

(40:25):
to give your partner an Indian rugburn on the most
sensitive part of his body. I don't think that's comfortable.
The next one is firmly hold the bottom of his
shaft in one hand and slowly push it towards the base.
Imagine you're pushing his penis into his body. So again,

(40:47):
I don't know if it's that effective. Here's another one.
Take a tennis ball and roll it with a slight
pressure between his shoulders and over his butt to help
him release pent up sexual energy. Got to bring a
tennis ball into it.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
I guess you're too lazy.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
To do anything else. And then the next one is
very softly bite the skin of his scrotum. I feel
like they could go very wrong, very very wrong. You
maybe he enjoys it and it says, And lastly, making
him a snack after sex. It doesn't have to be
a gourmet mill. A simple grilled cheese or milk and

(41:27):
cookies will do.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
A simple grilled cheese or milk and cookies.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
You know, the level of like it just boom down
to serve him. Thanks, and this will make it go
make a sandwich woman. I'm so sorry for that. It's true,
but it's essentially that a statement I feel like. So yes,
of course we don't. We're not to get into all

(41:56):
of it. And I'm sure, again this is seven years ago,
so I can't imagine what else is out there. I
wrote some of these nows. I actually I've heard the
shaft ones just so you know, which I think is
quite hilarious. It's such a romance novel term that is fantastic.
And again, though weest with some of these ridiculous bits

(42:18):
of advice, there is a real concern with some of
the information that is being spread. Although on the positive side,
having popular publications open up conversations about women learning to
enjoy sex or learning to explore sexual desires is a
plus and for a long time unheard of. It has
helped to destigmatize women's sexuality and even taught some men

(42:41):
about women's anatomy that they may not have understood. Hello Glitterius.
But there have been problems as well. According to one article,
some feel that women's magazines aren't celebrating being sexually open,
but rather pushing women to have degrading sex and calling
it IMpower. Now, I'm gonna be transparent here. This article

(43:04):
that I found written in evmagazine dot com seems as
I was reading it seems to be leaning very heavily
into the more like coming back to femininity, and it
kept saying that idea, which seems to be code for
like a conservative media, conservative think tank. I think I
do think there's a point here. Young girls are given

(43:26):
an embellished idea that they're being told that everyone and
every woman enjoy wild sex and are scared to set
boundaries for themselves. So I definitely think that's a conversation
where we don't have enough of that. We've come so
far sometimes to being sexually liberated, which is amazing, to
forgetting the part about consent, which we have talked about
previously in Boundaries. That was one of our book clubs too.

(43:50):
Of our book clubs actually wasn't it Come As You Are?
And the Ace book as well, because we have not
really pounded that into the head of like what consent?
When can you stop? And all those conversations and being
kind of so open to the idea that we're not
communicating to the younger generations of what that means. So

(44:11):
I do think there is some thought to that, as
well as the fact that women are told this is
what's happening, and this we were all doing this. Like
I've heard so many stories of men asking for threesomes
and they don't want necessarily want it, but being told
this is what people do so they just go with it,
and being uncomfortable with it, so all of those things.
I think it definitely has that point. So many of
the magazines lean into the pleasing a man idea, so

(44:33):
confusing liberation to non stop sescapades again, and the fact
that you have no choice or you have no power
to say no to any of these things or to stop,
like even if you were enjoying it to a certain
point and being able to have that communication. So I
think that is a big conversation of that. But the

(44:55):
article I'm referring to here also had an article titled
porn turned me by sexual and ruin my relationship, So
I feel like that's very yeah, weighty and very obvious,
as well as how to catch a husband, So you know,
watch out what you read. They had some good points.

(45:16):
I will not discredit that there. I would not take
everything they said as right in fact, so just on
the notes.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
Yes for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
So coming back to the original point, there is misinformation
that can happen with sex advice given from a magazine article.
As one writer states in Dame Magazine, a walk through
social media can illustrate just how deep the notion that
women aren't big on sex or orgasm runs. While women
fake orgasms, says a common meme, men fake entire relationships.

(45:50):
Other prevalent humor suggests that the best way to turn
a woman on is through house cleaning, unless a guy
our gal does so, naked mopping induced arousal is unlikely.
Stress relief is important, of course, and if helping the
chores or other tasks alleviates it, terrific. But I've noticed
significantly more stress inducing this in the context of female

(46:11):
sexuality than girlfriends complaining about dirty dishes. And yes, this
is talking about the whole women having orgasms thing, which
we have discussed before at a links. And though this
article was written in twenty fifteen, we are still talking
about that and finding that misinformation today.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
I mean, men are getting on podcasts saying women don't
have orgasms, so or can't have orgasms, that's not biological.
So you know we're still having that conversation. Yes and yeah.
As we mentioned before, there's both good and bad when
it comes to the sex relationship bets within magazines, and
research seems to back that up. According to Kristen Mark,

(46:50):
who was a therapist and professor, after doing a short
survey and readthrough of a popular women's magazine, specifically Cosmopolitan,
she concludes these findings suggest that women's magazines such as
Cosmo has potentially mixed effects. The impact is potentially problematic
when women, after brief exposure, are less likely than those
exposed to the control to believe premital sex intercourse is risky,

(47:14):
though it doesn't have to be risky. Use condoms, practice negotiation,
communicate with your partner, and make sure it's consensual. But
the short term impact of Cosmo can also be empowering
for women when after brief exposure, they're more likely than
those exposed to the control to believe that women should
be assertive in prioritizing their sexual desires for their osake,
but not for male partners.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
Yes, and I think it's also important that again, we
have no like, we don't have good sexual education in
this country. And you know, places like Florida are banning
the Dictionary because it has the definition of sex in it.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
So if you have something like this, it can.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Be it can be really like you never hear about it,
and that's kind of it's unfortunate because it can be problematic,
but it is also okay, maybe I can like this thing,
So yeah, I agree, it's sort of a there's pluses
and negatives, and of course if you couldn't tell yes,

(48:10):
this is very heteronormative. The lack of information and advice
offered to the queer community was very blatant, going back
to that get Me Giddy dot com article, they wrote.
In the years following the publication made a point to
include more empowering and inclusive sex articles with LGBTQ perspectives
and advice geared toward feminist Glamour similarly did away with

(48:33):
content focused on what guys think, including a columnist by
the name of Jake to emphasize sex advice focused on
women's empowerment, and they continue Still the LGBTQ community has
been largely underrepresented in sex advice columns, though some writers
have recently stepped up to fix that. In twenty seventeen,
John Paul JP Brammer started the sex and love advice

(48:56):
column O La Poppy in Out magazine to provide guidance
to queer people who don't have the same access to
information about their sexuality online as straight CIS people. Secy
Blanchard similarly began her column MTF and DTF to talk
about the little discussed experiences of dating and sex from
a trans woman's perspective.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
Right In research paper titles Narrative Analysis of Sexual Etiquette
and teen magazines, the authorites other than brief mentions of
masturbation in seventeen lesbian dreams in Mademoiselle, bisexual men who
put their field partners at Risk and Glamour, and one
story in Mademoiselle about a woman trying to save a
gay man from being gay. We found no representations of

(49:38):
homosexuality or masturbation that indicate these could be appropriate expressions
of sexuality. While there's also nothing which condemn these sexual expressions,
their absence could be seen as very limiting or isolating
by young women with these interests. Again note this was
actually written in nineteen ninety eight. So yeah, when I
say some of these are really dated, they are. But

(50:00):
the lack of information is something that should be recognized
and is oftentimes not seen in larger publications. Like we
just talked about the get megiddy dot com was like
a twenty twenty article, so it's not been long and
it's still very unrepresented. And the things that we do
see are specific to queer culture instead of being in
the popular publications. And that article is obviously specific to

(50:21):
teen magazines as it was titled. Like I said, I
have read my fair share of sex and relationship advice
from different teen magazines, which we will delve into in
the next episode. And honestly, again, all this information is
a bit overwhelming, with a little with very little to
offer in like all the contexts, the way we have

(50:43):
to search for things is within itself. A lot of
times they call themselves outs. I will give them that,
like Lamberer will call themselves out. Cosmo has called themselves out.
You know, they've really changed their tone in the last
five years, which again it's gonna be about in the
next episode, but for today, we're going to pause here.
And yeah, I have done exactly what I didn't want

(51:05):
to do make a three part thay. Apologies y'all, but hey,
this is good stuff.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
I like how you say three part shut it.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
I'm determined.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
Okay, all right, Well, finally I'm gonna finally reveal the
countents of my Ryan Gossling shock, and.

Speaker 3 (51:23):
I'm very excited.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
Is sitting on this outline taunting me?

Speaker 3 (51:26):
Oh it's chaunting me too, daunting all of us.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Well, if you have any.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
Thoughts about this, I mean, we would love to hear them.
I think I might go flip through some of my
I still have some magazines. Oh, just see what's in there.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
I have to find some quizzes from those old school magazines,
because there's some I remember taking those, like what kind
of man are you supposed to be? With all those?
I gotta find one of those.

Speaker 3 (51:51):
Oh yeah, I think the old Horo scipts could be fun.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
Yeah, those like like fashion like flow chart things.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
Yeah, us color salads.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Yeah, we'll have to come back maybe for a Monday mini.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
Not not not part beautiful.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
Yes, yes, I will help you with this.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
Well, listeners, if you have any thoughts about any of that,
or like, yes, any old magazines you want to share
or magazine. Memories you want to share, please let us know.
You can email us at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at
iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter at
mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff
I Never told You. We have a tea public store
and we have a book we can get wherever you
get your books. Thanks, it's always to our super producer

(52:35):
Christina or excited to producer My and our contributor Joey.
Thank you, Thanks to you for listening Stuff Never Told
You the production of I Heartradio. For more podcast from
my Heart Radio, you can check out their heart Radio,
Apple podcast or where you listen to your favorite shows