CLASSIC: Conspiracy and the Cure: People Who Believe They've Cured Cancer

Each year, millions of people across the planet grapple with some form of cancer. Doctors work around the clock to create better treatments methods, early diagnosis techniques and more, but for many people these innovations will sadly come too late. With so many lives on the line, it’s no surprise that multiple, unrelated individuals have claimed that they possess the cure for cancer — and that powerful forces are conspiring to keep this cure hidden from the masses.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Philip Conspiracy Realists. We are returning with tonight's classic episode.
This is something that remains incredibly sensitive and incredibly important
in the modern day. As we all know, statistically, you
or a loved one has battled with a group of

(00:21):
diseases that we collectively call cancer.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Yes, and likely lost people in your life, right, hor horrifying.
I know, I have I know you probably have to.
There are a lot of human beings who have come
along gosh, what do you want to say, guys centuries no,
a century maybe where people have come along and said, hey,
we've got the cure for you.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Here.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
This is going to get rid of all of that
horrifying cancer. We just need lots of money.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Right, yes, because each year millions of people across the
planet still grapple with these with these medical conditions, and
one type of treatment for one type of cancer may
not apply to other kinds of cancer. It's very much
a real killer, and it's something that some of the

(01:15):
smartest people in the world are still attempting to solve. However,
as you alluded to there, Matt, it's sadly no surprise
that there are a lot of people who claim that
they have cured some or all forms of cancer. And
there's a lot to wrestle with here, and.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
There's a lot in the news right now about some
truly potentially amazing advancements in that direction. And this isn't
something that we want to think about negatively in terms
of the conspiracy of it all. But there are certainly
those that would take that promise of a cure for
cancer and use it to cash in.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah, for sure, we're going to talk about it in
this episode, So let's get into it.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Those to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled
with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn
this stuff they don't want you to know. A production
of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name.

Speaker 4 (02:26):
Is no One.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
They call me Ben. We were joined as always with
our super producer Paul Mission Control Deck. At most importantly,
you are you. You are here, and that makes this
stuff they don't want you to know. Another peak behind
the curtain. This is the first time in quite a
while that the whole crew has been together in the
same studio.

Speaker 4 (02:45):
And another peek behind the curtain. Matt said, his name
originally kind of in an odd cadence, and I made
him start over and correct it, and then I copied
said odd cadence in my sign on. So I'm a jerk.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
That's so brown town of you, so brownish.

Speaker 4 (03:00):
So one note and brown note.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
So how have you guys been doing? Hey?

Speaker 2 (03:04):
Great, Ben, I hope you're doing well too. You were
on the Biggest Adventures. We've recorded one episode since you've returned.
And you know, the one thing we haven't actually addressed
yet together as a team.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
What's that, Matt is our.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Time out in La We what we got to do
with mister Dan Harmon.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
That's true. We did mention this in previous episodes. We
wanted to be transparent, of course, given the kind of
show that we do here, and you know, I can't
believe it. We actually did it. We went on Harmontown
and then we also had Dan over on an episode
of Stuff they Don't want you to know, which, by

(03:47):
the time this recording comes out should be available now, right.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, And I just have to say it was incredible,
basically starting a conversation on Harmontown on stage, then continuing
onto our show where we just kind of kept talking
in more depth about the same things.

Speaker 4 (04:05):
There was even the chapter of the conversation that you
were not privy to that was sort of in the
dressing room in between the show or before the show,
and then after the show, and then we did our show,
and then we continue the conversation even still at a
little dive bar in Hollywood called the Frolic Room, which
is Hollywood institution. Yeah, and it was just the whole
thing was kind of surreal and delightful in many many ways.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, and we just we hope you enjoyed the episode
as you were listening to it. It was a delight
for us.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
So it's a weird one, Yeah, it is. It is
definitely a weird one. And to your point, Nol, I'm
also wondering how coherent the conversation will be given that
several hours of what was essentially a two day episode
will not see the light of day.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
Not to mention, we just now got the preview of
that in real time, you know, got the preview of
that episode to listen to. We always listen to them
before published, and I think we're all a little bit
on the edge of our seats wondering what it's actually
gonna sound like. You are out there in podcast land
already know.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Well, yeah, you're gonna get the refined product.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, we're in a situation that some English teachers would
refer to as dramatic irony, because you, the audience, know
something that we do not.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, it's true.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
So let's hope. Let's hope it's uh, let's hope it's good.
One way or the other. It's done. And I don't
think that we've heard the last of Dan Harmon, you know,
I mean obviously not, because he's gonna make tons of
new shows, but he might be on this show again
in the future.

Speaker 4 (05:31):
So we hope you like it.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
Today we are talking about something much less, much less enjoyable.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
Right, Well, actually this could be quite enjoyable because it's
possible ways to cure ourselves of things our body is
fighting against.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
That's right, that's true. We do have to say at
the top of today's show that nothing we say in
this show, and none of the sources we quote, should
be taken as medical advice.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, speak to your doctor or your GP, whoever you've
got if you want to learn more about any of
this stuff.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
And if you get scared, don't hop on WebMD. Make
an appointment go to a doctor.

Speaker 4 (06:16):
Never hop on WebMD, you guys.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
Never WebMD. It's cancer. That's that's their name, that's their tagline.

Speaker 4 (06:22):
Literally, it's like it's like one of those float charts
that always ends in cancer.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, and today we're exploring one of the most sensitive
subjects in human experience, health and of course it's ever
present shadowy end result death.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
I thought you were going to say, wellness, Oh no, wells.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
Well, that's that's good. Yeah. But they all and so far,
the every single study that has ever been conducted on
this subject has found that life is a terminal condition
with a one rate of death fatality rate. And for
the past few thousands of years, our species has made
honestly extraordinary strides in the field of medicine. I'm not

(07:06):
the most optimistic person, but even I can admit that
it was not an easy process. However, there is here's
one anecdote that can show us how difficult medical progress is.
Have have you all heard of ignos Semelwis?

Speaker 4 (07:21):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah, I think we've mentioned him before on this show,
just in passing though.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
He's one of my favorite illustrations of someone who was
called crazy and was right all along. However, you know,
we've been in this situation, but no one has died
of a result of as a result of people not
believing us. Hopefully, ignos Semlviis was roundly ridiculed for the
kakammy notion that hey, maybe before doctors assist assist in childbirth,

(07:55):
they should wash their hands. Yeah, wash just hands.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
Well, and it wasn't taken well because a lot of
the people that he's speaking to were essentially just offended
at the thought of you believe my hands to be
dirty too, where I will infect others just by not
cleansing them prior to delivering a baby.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
I am a gentleman, sir, and you have violated my dignity.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Well, I mean then that kind of thinking, we have
to remember, still exists within the realms of things that
are just outside of what is accepted.

Speaker 4 (08:32):
Well, it was a product of elitism too, right, It's like,
you know, how dare you accuse me of being unclean?
For I am at a higher station than you, sir, You.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Know exactly, like the diseases clearly come from the peasant class. Yeah,
when all doctors are considered more patrician. It's so strange
because some device was correct a ton of people didn't
believe him, even though he had studies that proved he
was correct. And his bedside manner was also terrible if

(09:01):
you were a D and D character charisma was his
dumpstat like he was not good at talking with people
in a civil manner because he knew he was right
and he was angry about it, and this just exacerbated
the situation. The academy turned on him. Eventually, Semmelweis ends
up in an asylum at the age of forty seven,

(09:22):
and eventually, ironically, he dies of sepsis MM infection in
the blood. And this depressing anecdote gives us a window
into human nature. Oh also, thank you so much, Samuelweiss
for playing such a huge part in us being alive
to make the show today. We see some damning things

(09:46):
about human psychology in this tale, and we also see
some illuminating things about our collective approach to medicine. And
we fast forward to twenty nineteen. We've made a lot
of hard won medical progress, but some disease remain functionally
incurable here in the US. Two of the biggest killers
are heart disease, which is treatable, you know, in number

(10:09):
of ways. And of course the big C word. Cancer. Doctors,
as you listen to this, are literally working day in
and day out around the clock to discover new treatments,
early detection methods, and more. But here's the thing, fellow
conspiracy realists. Some people will tell you that there is
a cure for some or all cancers, and that it

(10:32):
has been around for much longer than you think. But
to figure out the answer to that question, we have
to start at the beginning. So here are the facts.

Speaker 4 (10:42):
What is cancer, you might be asking yourself. First, let's
bust a few myths about the term cancer, which actually
describes more than one hundred separate diseases, not all of
which are created equally, but they are all characterized by
an abnormal and unregulated growth of cells. This growth actually

(11:03):
destroys surrounding tissue and can spread to other parts of
the body through a process called metastasis.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
And kudos for correctly pronounced that the first try that metastasis.
That one's tough for me. I can see metastasize, but
having to how do you pronounce it again?

Speaker 4 (11:19):
Metastasis? Metastas But I also like metastasis. Yeah, that's another
thing entirely though. Yeah, it's like meta not moving. I
don't know, I know.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
Right, it's not moving on several levels right in a
deep way.

Speaker 4 (11:33):
Ben, you have a really great analogy, I think, for
a way to wrap your head around this idea, don't you?

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Oh man, I hope it's at least serviceable. It's it
felt like a good idea, like three in the morning.
So when we hear cancer, just like you said, Nol,
we're often we're often taught to think that cancer is
itself a specific disease, but that's not the case. As
you said, there are more than one hundred different diseases

(12:00):
that fit the classification of cancer. So when we hear
the word cancer, we should think of it should be
like hearing the word clothing, because clothing describes a group
of things that all have a couple broad definitions in common,
but they also specialize, right, So you have hats for
your head, you have gloves just for your hands, and

(12:22):
on and on and on and like articles of clothing,
cancers specialize in different parts of your body. You wouldn't
wear a hat on your foot, and you wouldn't have
breast cancer in your prostate, right, these are very different things.
So when we look at the most common forms of cancer,

(12:44):
at least here in the US. We run into our
first Terrible Laundry list, which there are a few in
today's episode. There's skin cancer, lung cancer, brain cancer, breast cancer,
prostate cancer, colon cancer, ovarian cancer, leukemia, and lymphoma.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yeah. I'm really what we're getting out of here is
cancer can develop in any part of the human body.
And it's not one of those things that you have
to be a certain age where you know maybe cancer
will develop. It becomes more likely sometimes depending on your
life choices, but it really you can develop cancer at
any age, and unlike something like AIDS or the flu,

(13:25):
something infectious, let's say tuberculosis, you can't catch cancer from
somebody else from being around them. It's not contagious in
any way. And generally cancers are caused by damage that
occurs at the genetic level inside a cell. Right, That's
how you get the single cell that becomes rogue and
then begins multiplying and then infecting the other cells through metastasis.

(13:51):
It's I mean, it really is as a scary thing
because it's like one tiny, less than microscopic part of
view that rebels against the programming and then can kill you.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
And this is interesting. As a side note, there is
a provable contagious cancer. It does not occur in humans.
It occurs in Tasmanian devils. It's the devil facial tumor disease.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
Jeez, I've heard of that actually, strangely, I don't know why.
Must have seen some kind of mini doc about it
or something.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, it's relatively recent in the literature. It was first
described in nineteen ninety six. But it just ran through
the population of Tasmanian devils. Luckily, there's nothing like that
that we know of were humans so far. And why
is that a very lucky thing? That's because cancer is

(14:46):
one of the leading causes of death worldwide already. Back
in twenty twelve, there were fourteen point one million new
cases and eight point two million cancer related deaths across
the world. Literally millions of people are dying every year,
and we have we have some sobering stats for the

(15:07):
US specifically.

Speaker 4 (15:08):
It's true, and that is according to cancer dot Gov,
which estimates that seven hundred and thirty five thousand, three
hundred and fifty new cases of cancer were diagnosed in
the US in twenty eighteen and six hundred and nine thousand,
six hundred and forty people died from the disease. The
most common cancers, which are listed here in descending order,

(15:29):
according to estimated new cases in twenty eighteen, are breast cancer,
lung and bronchus cancer, prostate cancer, colon and rectum cancer,
melanoma of the skin, bladder cancer, non Hodgkins lymphoma, kidney
and renal pelvis cancer. Then we have endometrial cancer, leukemia,
pancreatic cancer, thyroid cancer, and last but not least, liver cancer.

Speaker 1 (15:55):
But there's good news, thankfully. We're we're also going out
of our way to point out moments of good news
in this story.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
There must be silver lining here.

Speaker 4 (16:06):
Well.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
The good news is that the cancer rates have actually
dropped about twenty seven percent over the last twenty five years.
I mean, that's fantastic, and I think, you know, without
getting too deep into it right now, it has to
do with just the amount of money and effort that's
being spent on trying to find a cure. The problem

(16:27):
is again that we've kind of discussed before. It's not
one thing you can't just throw money at a team
of researchers to look at cancer, big C cancer, you
have to study each individual part of the body and
each individual cancer. But again, death rates dropped twenty seven percent.

(16:48):
It translates to about one and a half percent per
year and more than two point six million deaths avoided
between nineteen ninety one and twenty sixteen.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
And honestly, go team, Yeah, that's a tremendous improvement right
now here. At the end of twenty nineteen, experts expect
a total of one million, seven hundred and sixty two thousand,
four and fifty new cancer cases and six hundred and
six thousand, eight hundred and eighty deaths from cancer cancer

(17:21):
related causes. This this means that although rates are dropping,
people are still dying and everyone is aware of this.
Everyone is aware of this. We know that people are
searching continually for a cure. According to researchers like kl Black,

(17:41):
the cure for cancer is more a matter of when
rather than a matter of if. Because, according to Black
and their colleagues, there's been this explosive progress in our
understanding of cancer. You know, reducing smoking rates that has
a huge impact on cancer rates. You know, early to
detection methods are a God send for people who believe

(18:03):
in God. And Black says that since we're since we're
in an inevitable situation where we will find a cure
for some cancers, it really becomes a question of how
much we want to prime the pump. Black calls for
increased research funding into all aspects of cancer research and

(18:24):
says it needs to be at least twice the current
levels of funding. But the tragic problem here, simply put,
is this for many people curing cancer in twenty thirty
or even twenty twenty five, isn't that's not coming soon enough.
The clock is already ticking on their lives.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
And there's a deeper conspiracy there that we will get
into about who benefits from cancer not being cured.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
Gley Bono right. And that, of course assumes that the
mainstream narrative is true, that there is sincere ardent research
in treating and curing this type of disease and it
may just not come soon enough. Unless that is, the

(19:17):
cure for cancer already exists.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
And we'll learn about that right after a word from
our sponsor.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
Here's where it gets crazy.

Speaker 4 (19:32):
According to a two thousand and eight survey, as much
as twenty seven percent of the United States population believes
large pharmaceutical interests possess a cure for some or all
cancers and actively suppress this treatment in order to boost
their profits. We've heard this any number of times when

(19:54):
it comes to the farm. I mean, just in terms
of cures for all kinds of diseases or alternative medicaid.
Why the pharmaceutical lobby fights marijuana legalizations so much. I mean,
you know, it's no proof, but the proof is in
the putting. It seems pretty clear that's the case.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, and these conspiratorial claims. I love that you point
that out, because these claims typically follow the same rough pattern,
not just for cancer, but for things like HIV or AIDS.
The idea is that someone somewhere has invented or discovered
a cure for cancer or a treatment that has a

(20:30):
very high efficacy rate, right, And this cure, whether it
be a simple one and done pill or a series
of treatments you know, herbal remedies and so on, this
cure is known to big pharma capital B capital P.
But releasing it to the public, in this cabal's eyes,

(20:50):
is less profitable than letting people slowly die or charging
them for a subscription service. There are a couple of
things we could unpack. Let's pause for a second. A note.
Twenty seven percent. You said twenty seven percent of people pulled.
That's almost one out of three US residents believe that

(21:16):
there is a cure that has been repressed. That puts
this on the level of some of the great widely
believed conspiracies in the lore, right, the moon landing, the
JFK assassination.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
Can we just talk about that survey was from two
thousand and six, which is almost I don't know what
we would call that from an Internet standpoint, but two
thousand and six was like that era where I don't
know information was really being put out there. I think
back to the House Stuff Works website where there are

(21:51):
so many people trying to put out so much information
and just fill the Internet and fill in all the
spaces that could possibly be searched for. And it makes
me wonder if that has anything to do with that
twenty seven percent number.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
I see, Yeah, maybe we were still as a country
sharpening or critical thinking skills, right.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
That's what I see, But perhaps I'm incorrect.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
Well, there's also there's also the compelling argument that from
a capitalistic stance, you're putting yourself out of business if
you ever actually cure a disease, right, that's one of
the commonly cited things.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Unless you control the one cure.

Speaker 4 (22:32):
But then you only have to take it once. Right,
Whereas you know, being prescribed medication is like a life
sentence of cash flow, you know.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
Yeah, And this this jibes with stuff that we know
about the economy in general, which is that for more
than a decade, US businesses have been moving away from
ownership models towards subscription models, you know what I mean.
And this is reflected ass the board, whether you're talking

(23:01):
about automobiles, whether you're talking about medicine, whether you're talking
about even clothing. Right, the ink in your printer, the
ink in your printer.

Speaker 4 (23:10):
Oh, that's insidious when it's all masquerading behind this facade
of convenience, when it's really just a matter of getting
you on the hook, and you think, oh, it's not
that much per month, but then you add it up
and then you maybe compare that to how much actual
benefits you get from it, and you're really just funneling
money into these corporations pockets or these startups or.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
Whatever until your card gets canceled.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
Exactly like when Adobe went entirely to a subscription model.

Speaker 4 (23:40):
We're very lucky we get access to those products through work.
But you know, if someone just wants photoshop, you can't.
Maybe you can't. I'm not sure how it works. You
can't just buy photoshop anymore to my knowledge. You got
to pay that ten twelve bucks a month. Then you
add that with your Hulu, add that with your Netflix,
add that with your prescription drugs. Before you know it,
you're out of pocket a whole lot every month.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
And you don't own a damn thing. That's the strangest part.
I know I'm using strong language there, But this suppressed cure,
this palliative thing, this panacea could be described as any
number of substances or treatments, and not all of the
conspiratorial claims agree on what the cure might actually be.

(24:23):
There are a couple of categories. They're natural or alternative treatments.
That could be stuff like aromatherapy, right, or herbalistic regimens,
and then there's homeopathy or even unto shamanistic healing rights,
you know what I mean. The idea that disease is
as much a product of the mind as it is
of the body. And there are some interesting studies that

(24:46):
show one's cognitive state can have an effect on recuperation
from physical trauma.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
Oh absolutely well, And that leads into every one of
these types of treatments when you get to aromatherapy or something,
or one of the largest categories that exists in here,
which is what you put into your body. Diet based solutions.
There are things like the Browse Diet, the Hallelujah Diet,
several others. Were going to get into one at the

(25:12):
end of this episode. That's out there right now that
I'm sure there are a lot of people following that
believe it's going to cure them.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
And I love the name the Hallelujah Diet. I had
not heard of it before we begin researching for this.
Just for an example, this is a pretty restrictive diet
that purports to be biblical. It's based on raw food,
and the inventor of the Hallelujah Diet is doing that.
Not only am I the president, I'm also a member

(25:42):
sure kind of thing because the inventor claim secured his
own cancer.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
A lot of those are vegan based or like a
specific thing that you have to eat or refrain from
eating to get your body back into some position of
I was gonna say stasis, but that's not correct. Just
there's harmony. To get harmony back within your body and
all the cells.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
Metastasis.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, metastasis.

Speaker 4 (26:08):
There we go, the best kind of stasis. I don't know,
I walk that one back. Yeahah, what I like it.

Speaker 3 (26:16):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
So we see that, We see that diet can be
a compelling treatment of some sort because we know that
a vegan diet will tend to be better for you
than a very heavy red meat diet. Right, as long
as you're an adult, you're not still developing et cetera.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
When it comes Yeah, exactly when it comes to certain
things and at certain points in your life.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
And there are also electromagnetic or energy based cures. Shout
out to orgone energy, which is still fascinating to me.

Speaker 4 (26:49):
Boy Wilhelm.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yeah, mister Reike himself, doctor Reich. He's a doctor of sorts.
It was easier to be a doctor in those days.
This cloud doctor. There's a cloud doctor. I love it.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
We talked about him last episode when you were here.
We talked about cloudbusting Daddy dude.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah, I'm having a weird deja vu moment right here.

Speaker 4 (27:07):
Okay, because of the Kate Bush song that was about
Wilhelm Reich and his rain machine No Cloudbuster.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
The Cloudbuster or going energy, which is fascinating. Please if
you haven't If you haven't heard of this before, do
check out our audio and video episodes on Oregone and
the strange interaction that Villa Reich had.

Speaker 4 (27:29):
With the FDA.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
I think at some point so there are also hybrid
regimens that combined two or more treatments from the categories
that we just mentioned. This belief the big pharma is
suppressing a cure to one or more cancers is very common,
and it finds fertile soil in the current zeitgeist, in
the current social climate, because distrust the pharmaceutical companies runs

(27:55):
pretty high nowadays. And I would argue rightly so, especially
given the Opie in the US, which swept through various
regions of the country like a natural disaster.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
And continues to do so.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah, and then add to that, the US is cartoonishly high,
like ridiculously high, drug costs when compared to literally every
other developed nation, every single other one, and I know
literally is a word that gets overused so often these days,
just like awesome, right, But in this case, yes, literally

(28:31):
every other developed nation is going to have better drug prices.
So even without hard proof of a conspiracy in this case,
there are a lot of people who understandably will hear
about the concept of any sort of suppressed medicine or treatment,
and at the very least, even if they're not one
hundred percent on board with the idea, they'll think, well,
I uh, I wouldn't put it past them, you know

(28:54):
what I mean. You know, it sound like the kind
of screlly thing they'd be into.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
But here's the deal. A lot of times the villain
in these stories is Big Pharma with the B and
a P. Another villain BP, No, not really a villain
VP or whatever, just depends on your perspective. But ultimately,
what I'm saying here is the pharmaceutical companies Big Pharma

(29:20):
could not get away with this alone. They would need
to have some cronies there with them, some people who
could get some other things done. They need help from,
you know, the nonprofits that are out there that take
in hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions of
dollars government agencies and other independent researchers who are going
through and either suppressing the research that's out there or

(29:42):
you know, covering up various aspects of certain diets or cures.
Like is it do you guys think it is in
any way possible that all of these different groups could
be cooperating so that let's say US eight million people
worldwide die each every year.

Speaker 4 (30:00):
Wait a minute, I means some sort of massive cover up,
conspiracy Hedgemond situation.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
Well, ultimately, yeah, if if so, and we're walking through
this hypothetically right, yes, yes, these different institutions would have
to work together pretty well, right, and they would have
to have some sort of omerta, some sort of brilliantly
watertight agreement. And you know that number is true. If

(30:28):
they are actively scheming to in some sort of plan
that results in eight million people dying every year, this
comes very close to being a case of medical genocide.

Speaker 4 (30:40):
Let's be real for a second. What do you think
the chances are this is actually the case?

Speaker 1 (30:45):
I you know, I'm gonna save it for the end. Okay,
I'm gonna save I'm gonna save it for the end,
because just with that piece just hypothetically, that's a lot
of cooperation, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (30:57):
We've been talking about this a lot more lately since
the Harmon thing. When when like, when can you smell
a conspiracy? That's probably there's some has some sand. It's
usually when that level of cooperation benefits all parties. Only
then are people most likely to keep their mouths shut

(31:17):
when the cover up is active and you know, necessary
to continue to enrich said parties or you know, keep
them from getting caught in some kind of collective lie.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah, and well, you know, pre Epstein I would have
been much more skeptical about some of these things. In
this case, however, there is a big elephant in the room,
which is, let's say it's true. Let's just hypothetically say
it's true. What happens when one of the conspirators is
diagnosed with cancer? Right? I mean do they say, well,

(31:52):
for the good or the cause? You've got to continue
on to stage four, buddy, we can't let people know.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
Yeah, it's weird.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
I mean, okay, so we did that survey right from
two thousand and six, right, Well, in two thousand and two,
there was a guy named Ted Gansler. This comes to
us from one of our colleagues, author Dave Russ, writing
over for Houstuff Works. Ted Gansler, at the time was
a strategic director for pathology research with the American Cancer Society.

(32:23):
He edits the Cancer Journal for clinicians. This guy's his
bona fides, right. He heard this hidden cure, the suppressed
cure for cancer story so often that in two thousand
and two he conducted a survey about the most common
misconceptions of cancer, and in this he asked about one

(32:44):
thousand Americans if they believed there was a conspiracy to
hide a cure for cancer. According to Gansler, the result
was even more shocking than he had expected. He found
and again this two thousand and two, that not only
did twenty seven ven point three percent of the people
polled believe that there was a cure for cancer being repressed,

(33:06):
but another fourteen percent said, I don't know. It seems
like something they would do, though maybe happen.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
That's that's crazy, And again that's just kind of what
we've been talking about here. It's another version of this
conspiracy theory, or another aspect to it, is that that
thought that somebody somewhere has a cancer cure and it's
being kept secret for one reason or another.

Speaker 4 (33:30):
Well, but to your question, Ben, I mean, if we're
staying in the realm of hypotheticals and thought experiments, if
one of the members of this conspiracy were diagnosed, wouldn't
by virtue of being in the inner circle. They'd get
the cure and they would just keep it quiet and
they'd never come out with the fact that this person
was diagnosed. It would just be business as usual. Isn't
that sort of the argument we make with the super

(33:52):
elite that potentially possessed technology that's beyond the reach of
us smear mortals, like life extension technology and things like that,
is and that how it would work hypothetically hypothetically.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
Yeah, But then we also have to wonder how to
explain the deaths of people who are billionaires who expired
due to cancer cancer related causes. Is that part of
the cover up too? Do they really die of something
else and they said, okay, call it cancer so that
the peasants don't know we have the cure.

Speaker 4 (34:21):
Well, and they're presumably living on a billionaire island somewhere.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yes, Yeah, is Warren Buffett like the only billionaire who
has a modest ranch style home he seems like he likes.

Speaker 4 (34:33):
To keep it relatively unostentatious. For the most part. He
spends his money in smart ways and not in showy ways.
That's a good question, though, Ben.

Speaker 1 (34:41):
I don't know. Let us know if you know a
modest billionaire who can help illuminate our investigation into the
idea of a suppressed cancer cure.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
And maybe pump millions, if not billions into cancer research.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
Right, Like, well, you know what, great example, David Coch
died of cancer. Yeah. Right, So here's another twist to
this story. Not only do about one one in three
Americans believe that there's something fishy here, but there are
multiple numerous groups, individuals, and institutions who claim not only

(35:21):
is there a suppressed secure but that they have discovered
this cure or a cure. We could do an entire
series on the various claims involved, but let's take a
break for a word from our sponsor, and then we'll
come back and we'll look at a couple of let's
call them notable highlights. Guys. I've got to admit I've

(35:47):
put this first one in here just because I think
the guy's name is awesome. All of his claims aside,
the name Royal Rife is an amazing name.

Speaker 4 (35:58):
Classically good name, so good, somewhere between a news anchor
and a porn.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Star perhaps perhaps. Yeah, And you know it's it's one
of those names that I would use as a different persona,
you know, in like an airport or a strange city.

Speaker 4 (36:14):
Royal Raymond Rife, Hey, you go call me roy Royal.
I mean, the only Royal I know is from the
fictional Royal Tananbombs. His name was Royal, the main character
made by Gene Hackman. I've never met I've never known
a person named Royal before.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Well, you know, the future looms vast and welcoming before us,
and the horizon of time rushes towards us.

Speaker 4 (36:35):
Even now you think it's welcoming. I find it quite foreboding.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
I'm you know, I am. I'm trying to manifest the secret,
even if I don't believe in it.

Speaker 4 (36:43):
The secret secret, the one from the book.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (36:46):
Subsequent film adaptation is gonna think positive.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
Well, Royal Rife certainly was thinking positive when he developed
a beam ray that's in quotations.

Speaker 4 (36:59):
There's a beam, yes, what is it a beam or
a ray?

Speaker 1 (37:02):
It's a beam ray.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
It's a beam ray. It's not a weapon. It's a
you know, a tool to be used to cure certain
diseases if aimed, you know, in the right place and
used correctly. And one of those things that he thought
he could cure was cancer. And the way it's done
is through vibrating the cancerous cells. Vibration essentially is the

(37:26):
means by which Royal Rife believed his beam ray could
cure cancer.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yeah, he built on the work of a fellow named
doctor Albert Abrams. Abrams thought that every single disease had
a unique electromagnetic frequency, and these men believe that because
of that, doctors could kill or treat diseased or cancer
cells by sending an electrical impulse identical to that cells

(37:53):
electromagnetic frequency. This you've heard of this before, if you're
a longtime listener to this show. This is sometimes called
radioics r ad ion ICs.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
It's a fascinating concept, right, if you could isolate just
the bad cells and then take those out.

Speaker 4 (38:14):
There's a very similar and I think if we're head
in the direction, I believe we are similarly debunked technology
that was using forensics called I can't remember the name,
but it used radioactive isotopes to identify materials in lead
and bullets, and the concept was that they all had
these distinctly unique signatures per specific bullet. But it turns

(38:39):
out that wasn't the case at all. It'd be like
the equivalent of picking up a conk shell and saying
this is you know, this is a unique conk shell,
but it would actually have a similar signature to like
every other conk shell that ever existed. So there were
folks that were put into prison for a very long
time using this technology, and then it was debunked and
those people were subsequently released Wow.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
But couldn't get their lives back. Also, so we know
that Rife, similar to Samulwis, was certain that the Academy
had turned on him, right, and he thought, I am
bringing this pioneering cure to the world. I don't want
to make a ton of money. It's not about the money, right,
It's about saving lives. There was a San Diego Evening

(39:22):
Tribune article that came out about Rife in nineteen thirty eight,
and in this he's it's interesting he stopped short of
saying I can cure cancer, but he says I can
devitalize disease organisms and living tissue with certain exceptions.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
So it sounds like pr to me.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
Yeah, he's like, I'm not saying this is a panacea
for everything. But the problem with his beam ray, similar
to the problem with a lot of radionics experiments and
a lot of oregone experiments, was that people said it
could not be independently replicated and independent researchers. Then throughout
the nineteen fifties I edited Rife. You can see his

(40:02):
obituary in the Daily Californian when he passed away at
the age of eighty three on August fifth, nineteen seventy one,
and according to the Daily Californian, Rife died penniless and
convinced that there was there was something rotten afoot in
the Academy.

Speaker 4 (40:19):
Hey, they published it in the much maligned Disgraced column
in the obituaries that day.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
Wow, whatever happened to the disgraced column?

Speaker 4 (40:28):
And now people just it's not PC anymore. Yeah, Yeah,
I'm joking obviously, But it does seem like they don't
say things like that in people's obituaries anymore. No, they
don't even say like suicide. They don't say anything about
cause of death. It's all just the broad strokes of
who they're you know, who left they left behind and
all that stuff, which is fine. Sure, it means you

(40:48):
got to do your homework a little more. Back in
the day, he used to be able to find everything
about about it by the dish from their obituary.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
Yeah, there was a certain amount of schaden freud and
some of those earlier ones.

Speaker 4 (40:58):
I think so too better or worse today?

Speaker 2 (41:00):
What do you think, oh, bits in general, I'm gonna
say better, Okay, Nope, nope, I'm gonna say worse. Nope,
I'm gonna say neutral. I would say, well, here's the deal.
Almost all obituaries are now written ahead of time unless
it's you know, if it's a person of note, there's

(41:20):
probably an a bit in one at least one major newspaper.
If you are a person of note, that's like trigger
yeah exactly, and then some stuff will be added to it.
So I would say it's probably more accurate. Obituaries are
probably more accurate for at least people of whatever standing,
whatever metric we want to get polished.

Speaker 4 (41:38):
Yeah, the final pr statement, how many times do you
think they've updated Jimmy Carter's oh bit on file multiple.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
Yeah, every time that poor guy takes a fall. There
is an editor in chief somewhere who like looks at
the USB drive or their dropbox or in my you know,
in in my head. What this editor does is they
have an alert whenever former President Carter is injured or something.
And then they look down at their at the like

(42:09):
the bottom third drawer in there, of course, in their
wooden news desk, and they open that bottom drawer just
a little bit and then they pull out the they
pull out the one sheet for the obituary, and they
read through it to see if they need to make
any changes. It's probably like a mad libby blank space
right where they put what actually happened, and then they

(42:30):
just put it on their desk and they wait to
see what happens. And then you know, the next thing,
you know, next thing, you know, Jimmy is back building
houses with habitat for humanity. So, with a sigh of relief,
the editor in chief takes that one sheet, they put
it back in that third drawer.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
And then they pull out Dick Cheney's and put it
on there and they just hope do.

Speaker 4 (42:51):
A voodoo incantation.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
Right, It's I mean, it's true that it's true that
this obituary does not seem partly forgiving. In Rife's case,
he did blame the lack of recognition on an actual conspiracy.
He said, the AMA, the American Medical Association, the Department
of Public Health, and other elements of what he called
organized medicine like that nice dovetail with organized crime. Yeah,

(43:17):
he said they had brainwashed and intimidated his colleagues, and
so he died seeing himself as a new Semmelweis who
is destined to be posthumously acknowledged for his work.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
Wow. I you know, I love that we brought it
back to civilvice already, because that is that is a feeling.
I think, no matter what where the truth lies, with
a lot of these people we're going to be talking about,
in these cures, like we've said before, nobody believes they're
a villain, right. I think a lot of these people

(43:50):
probably believed so deeply in their own version of a
cure that there was almost maybe again no matter if
it's true or not, there was magical thinking happening, I
want to say, in the in their own belief for
their cure.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
Yeah, yeah, you know, and that's that's a fair point,
and that a lot of people might not want to hear, right,
especially when you have the sunk costs of spending your
entire life, your entire professional life, trying to pursue this
in what is a noble way. We can say Royal Rife,
at the very least was not some kind of flim

(44:28):
flam man. He genuinely believed what he was doing. There
there's another example. Well, let's go away from a person
for a second and let's look at an actual substance.
There's a thing called latrill, which was widely sold as
a cure for cancer until was banned by the FDA.
And when something is banned by the FDA, that gives

(44:49):
a lot of fuel to the fire for people who
believe in suppressed medicine, because then you can say the
FDA banned it, not because it didn't work.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
Because it was working.

Speaker 4 (45:00):
Yeah, And the reason for this ban was that there
had been extensive clinical trials in the seventies and throughout
the eighties that proved it had zero effect on cancer
whatsoever except the delightful side effect of giving cyanide poisoning
to folks who attempted this remedy that often proved to

(45:21):
be fatal. So good on UFDA for taking poison off
the market, for.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
Doing your job and way to go. But you can
still find it today. That's the thing about the substance.
It's not sold under that name. It's sometimes called amygdalen
or vitamin B seventeen.

Speaker 4 (45:40):
That sounds like a really intense vitamin.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
It's a high class, sophisticated vitamin.

Speaker 4 (45:45):
Amygdalen is fun.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
Yeah, oh yeah, like the amygdala. I don't know why
I know a migdala is different from the medulla oblngata, but
I always think about that, and I always imagine the
professor from water Boy.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
We also learn about those pieces of the brain, and
usually in the same day in school.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
Yeah, I think that's it.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
So funny story about vitamin B seventeen. There's no such thing. Oh,
there's not a there's not a vitamin B seventeen.

Speaker 4 (46:15):
How many b's are there? Sixteen?

Speaker 2 (46:17):
No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 4 (46:18):
Twelve. I know there's twelve B twelve Is that the maximum?

Speaker 2 (46:22):
What about maximum B complex?

Speaker 4 (46:25):
Reach peak B?

Speaker 1 (46:27):
We've reached peak B. Finally, let's say there's B one,
B two, B three. It's definitely B six, B twelve.
I feel like, now we've got the bueller bueler.

Speaker 4 (46:41):
Oh, No, funny thing is it's not completely sequential. Well,
there's there's eight, right, you've got B one, B two,
B three. Then there's no B four.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
No, it's too funny. There's only they can't there's.

Speaker 4 (46:55):
B six, which is bias N B seven fold eight,
and then we got no. B eight. Was as that's
too funny too, I think. So I think B four
and B eight are just too rife. B nine and
then we go all the way to twelve, shoot up
to twelve. BE nine is funny. That would be good.
Maybe that should have been the one that cured cancer. Right,
man renders cancer B nine.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
We got here too late, you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (47:18):
At least for the naming conventions. We really could have
done some good with that. We could have whiteboarded the
heck out of this man. Man.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
But the problem with this Brian Dunning writes a fairly
good summation of this over at Skeptoid is that this
B seventeen case is one of the only cases we
can find of a product being banned or suppressed, however
you want to describe it. By FDA, by Big Pharma.

(47:44):
And that's because the product did have toxic effects on people.
So that's a real case of a cancer treatment being
pulled from the market. It was not pulled from the market,
the story goes, because it was in any way effectively
treating case. Answer, it was just it was more effective
at giving people cyanide poisoning.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
There you go.

Speaker 4 (48:06):
I mean, what was the cyanide content of this of
this drug? Twelve percent?

Speaker 1 (48:11):
Nice?

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Oh oh man. They should have known.

Speaker 4 (48:14):
They're always trying to find new uses for cyanide if
it's gonna gets a bad rap, you know. Yeah, I
think that's the thing.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
Cyanide was the original corn. Right, everything has corn in
it now and it used to be sid Let's let's
go back to ko ko or sorry, yes, yeah, yeah, yes,
yep ah. What is that guy's name? Jonathan Davis?

Speaker 4 (48:35):
He plays the bagpipes and has his white boy dreads.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
I'm actually like working with him a little bit, like,
you know, in a weird tertiary way.

Speaker 4 (48:44):
Oh cool, are you guys, homies?

Speaker 2 (48:46):
No, but he's writing some music for a thing.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
Oh nice, man, congratsund like this.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
It's weird.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
It sounds just like that who does the baselines? Is
it still the other I feel like, yeah, love those bases.

Speaker 4 (49:00):
He always played his bass like pointing directly. It was
almost like a cello, very slippity slappity. So there's another
guy who is not a member of Korn. His name
is Stanislav Brazenski. That would have been cool if there
was a guy in corn named Stanislav and he got
Fieldy head Monkey, Jonathan Davis and stanislavs. Brazinski.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
Yeah, this guy, this guy has a story. I think
I've mentioned this before, but I had a cousin out
in Texas who was working with Stanislav Brazinski, like directly
with the Foundation in some kind of respect. But she

(49:41):
wanted us actually to do an episode on this, but
I kind of turned it down because she was very
adamant and I don't know her position today, but very
adamant that Stanislav did have the cure for cancer.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Yeah. There's a documentary about Brazinski called The Cancer Cover Up,
which is available for free on YouTube. This is not
an endorsement, but if you want to learn more about
the story, I would check that out. With the knowledge
that if you couldn't tell from the title, the documentary
is very much of the opinion that Brazinski is actually

(50:17):
treating cancer with success. His surfaces in the late nineteen
sixties when he proposes that there is a naturally occurring,
continuously functioning biochemical system in the body that is different
and distinct from the immune system, and that this other
system can correct cancer cells by means of special chemicals

(50:38):
that reprogram these cells. And this leads him to create
what is known as the Brazinski Clinic.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Yeah, cells that in particular, as we have discussed already,
the cancer cells, that something has gone haywire within their
genetics and they're just reproducing and in the inert in
weird ways and yet reproducing. Basically the stuff would stop
that turn them back into regular cells. So the clinic

(51:04):
itself that it's called the Brazenci Clinic. It was founded
in seventy six and it is in Texas. It just
kind of goes along with my cousin's story and perhaps
why she got interested in the first place. And it's
best known for this controversial therapy known as anti neoplastin
that sounds a little weird, anti neo plastin, and it

(51:27):
was developed by Brazinski in the nineteen seventies. Now this
is his term anti neoplastin for this group of Now
get this urine derived peptides, okay, peptide derivatives as well
as mixtures that Brazinski named to use in his cancer treatment,
so that those are the substances, the chemicals that would

(51:50):
get pumped into you if you were undergoing treatment.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
And the clinic has been the focus of some ongoing criticism,
mainly because of the way this anti neoplastin therapy is promoted,
also because of the cost for people with cancer participating
in trials, and then of course there are some other
medical professionals who object to the way in which these

(52:15):
trials are run. There have also been legal cases brought
as a result of the sale of this therapy because
it doesn't have or it didn't have approval from the
Texas State Board.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
There are also a lot of allegations that the numbers
are being manipulated about successful cases, survivors, how long, what
side effects there could be. There's a lot of I mean,
it's what, there's a lot of controversy out there about this,
and it's certainly worth your time to look into if
you're interested in this kind of thing. Again, we're not

(52:48):
trying to make anyone believe in or not believe in
any of these things. It's just kind of giving you
what we found.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
And it's important to note examples like this. This is
just one of many examples, but it's important to note
this one in particular because it is an ongoing case,
you know what I mean. It's not something from the
eighteen hundreds or the nineteen thirties.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
If you go to the website quackwatch dot org, you
can read a whole bunch about Stanislav Brazinski and the
treatments and what's supposed to be happening the claims. There
have been several published clinical studies that you can actually
read parts of in there. We would highly recommend it absolutely.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
There is one other example then we have to hit
today because many of our fellow listeners wrote into us
recently about this case. And this case comes to us
through strange avenue. It's the story of a man born
Alfredo Darrington Bowman, but perhaps better known today as doctor Seby.

(53:55):
I don't know, guys, I don't know why, but my
cadence keeps falling into this odd ser Lean thing.

Speaker 4 (54:00):
Dude.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
I just was about to say, yeah, yet.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
What says doctor sebt sippy?

Speaker 1 (54:07):
It's always been my dream to be that guy you
already are you are?

Speaker 4 (54:12):
Uh tell us about We actually had a very interesting
uh and it's funny. It was deja vu for me
at this point. Matt and I and a ride from
Lax to our hotel on this last trip we all
took to la we got into the conversation. But while
we were there, and so we had this you know,
conspiracy open minded critical thing approach to conspiracy theories podcasts,
just how we tend to phrase it. And he asked

(54:34):
if we had heard of doctor Sebbi, and he seemed
to really stand behind him very much. And I actually, funny,
had a similar conversation with another lift driver years ago
and he was like preaching the gospel of Sebi to me. Well,
I had not heard of the guy at all, but
now now I know a little bit about him.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
Why do you think we're talking about him right now?
Because of that? Because of that ride, buddy, So uh, well,
we'll tell us a little bit.

Speaker 4 (55:01):
About doctor Selby. Absolutely. This comes from a healthline dot
com article that describes doctor Sebbi as a gentleman who
claimed that his diet could cure everything from AIDS to
sickle cell anemia, to leukemia and lupus. But he was
sued in nineteen ninety three and was ordered to stop
making these claims.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
But that is it's not the first time that he
had to go to court with these kinds of things,
But that nineteen ninety three to one is important again
because he had to stop saying those things.

Speaker 4 (55:33):
He absolutely had to stop. He was he was required
by law to cease promotion of his diet because it's
literally what we would call maybe a fad diet for
all intents and purposes, involving things like vegetables, fruits, grains, nuts, seeds, oils,
and herbs, things that he would particularly curate animal products

(55:55):
big no no, and SEBBI basically promote well, he was
essentially promoting a vegan, yes.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
But along with herb like some supplemental or some herbal
supplements and some other supplements. I would say that they
it's not that they weren't allowed to continue promoting it,
you know, or using this diet or selling this kind
of thing.

Speaker 4 (56:18):
It was just that can't make those claims set in
order to promote it. Right, Yes, yes, it's the same
kind of stuff that Alex Joneses got in trouble for.
I believe with the bone, yeah, the bone broths and
all that stuff. I don't think he's allowed to say
some of the things that he once said in terms
of how those things can you know, prevent you from
getting irradiated or whatever you know in the apocalypse.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
Here's, in my opinion, one of the reasons why doctor
Sibby was so successful. It's because the the methodology about
why these supplements and why this diet worked. It feels
really simple, and if you're anybody, you can hear someone
describe this and say, oh, okay, yeah, I could get that.
I could get behind that. And the whole concept here

(57:04):
is that all illness within the human body comes from
high levels of acidity, which then results in mucus production
and the mucus depending on what part of the body
is ill. Let's say you've got a bum elbow or something,
you've got some arthritis in there. Doctor SEBI's belief is
that there's mucus build up in there from high acidity,

(57:25):
and his diet is going to be alkaline and reduce
the acidity and basically get your body back in harmony
and then your mucus will go away and your illness.

Speaker 4 (57:36):
Does this sound eerily familiar to the medieval quackery of humors, right,
and and phlam and mucous spile? It was, It was.
It was all related to the balance of these bodily fluids, right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
Is that it certainly comes from an older belief system.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
It does come from an older belief system, but so
does the medieval belief in us, the idea that one
could be melancholic.

Speaker 4 (58:03):
Right, I have a great book.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
On that if you guys. Ever, never mind, never mind,
I'm gonna I'm gonna go back and read it. The
illustrations great. This also, yeah, okay, I'll bring it in.
This is also back when one of the forefronts of
European medicine was to have people pee in glass or
transparent beakers and then to hold the urine up to

(58:25):
the light and guess what was wrong with the person
Based on the interpretations of the europe.

Speaker 4 (58:32):
Do it like a wine tasting or you switch it around.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
There was some sniffing, for sure. Yeah, okay, there was
some sniffing.

Speaker 4 (58:41):
Disgusting sound because I'm really sorry.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
And I don't know how wide spread asparagus was.

Speaker 4 (58:47):
You know, just not to de real. But not everyone.
Not everyone's pee will smell funny when they eat asparagus.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
It's true. It's kind of like the cilantro things.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
Or is it that you can't smell it? That's what
I'm saying. Not every can smell it. I don't know.
Look man science out on that one.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
Let us know, folks, Let us know. I know there
are several people who listened to this show for years
wondering when we were going to finally address the elephant
in the room of asparagus and urine. So there you are, folks,
that's we finally got around to it.

Speaker 4 (59:19):
There's a brain stuff about that. I know. I'm josh
there should be Josh. I think it's a Joshua.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
I know. There you go. So let's uh, let's just
get back to Sebbi really fast, because a lot of
the criticism ends up, well, not a lot of the criticism,
but there is criticism to be uh to be levied
at doctor Sebbe because the claim basically here is that
you can you can heal yourself from literally anything from

(59:45):
AIDS to cancer to whatever it is if you follow
this diet. Consistently for the rest of your life and
it will never come back and you'll be.

Speaker 4 (59:54):
Good to go.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
Let your food be your medicine.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
Yes, And it's again it's one of those things where
it was links to profit because there was a company.
There is a company right now that you can go
to the website for. It's a doctor Sebbi's Sell Food.
Doctor SEBI's Sell Food. It offers supplements meant to quote
expedite the healing process if you're following along with the diet.

Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
And you can check this out for yourself at doctor
sebissellfood dot com where he has Nutritional Guy a blog.
You know, his whole methodology is his bio and all
this stuff. And of course you can purchase these things.
And I believe the the basic pack in question here
is what like seven hundred and fifty bucks. The advanced package, Oh,
the advanced pack, so you can get in for a

(01:00:39):
little you can get in, you know, for maybe a
couple hundred.

Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
I think there's a couple on there that are like
in the two hundred and three hundred dollars range.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
And I'm sure if you did research you could find
independent suppliers of the different substances offered in the pack
and maybe save money. I'm I haven't done the math
on it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:56):
No, Well, actually, the Advance pack is sort of the basic.
Then there's an all inclusive pack that's fifteen hundred dollars.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
So there's Advance is the lowest tier.

Speaker 4 (01:01:06):
That's the lowest tier of like a whole collection of stuff.
Then you can buy individual you know, remedies or whatever.
There's something called the Booster Package, which is five hundred
and seventy five dollars, and you can buy you know,
individual things from everything from bromide plus capsules for thirty
bucks to doctor SEBI's blood pressure balance herbal tea sixteen bucks.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
Ye.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
The point here is that it's not cheap to write
to get in on this kind of diet if you're
going to follow it and take the supplements provided by
the company.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
However, many people will swear that the program has healed
them one ailment or another. At the time of reporting,
as far as we could find, no universally acknowledged scientific
studies supported these claims. They still live squarely in the
realm of the anecdote, which doesn't make them false. Means

(01:02:00):
that at this point they have not held up to
scientific rigor. That doesn't mean that there's no sense to it,
because clearly some people believe that it has worked.

Speaker 4 (01:02:11):
No, And you're absolutely right, Ben, But I will say
I think it's a little unusual and not unusual at all,
maybe on the nose that the labels on all these
products literally look like the kind of labels you would
have seen on the snake oil stuff sold out of
carts back in the olden days. You know, it's like
an old font and says doctor Sebbi is sell food,
and like it's got a picture of him in the middle,

(01:02:32):
and it's like tooth powder, you know. I mean, it's
like even the names of them. There's like there's something
called eye wash and green food.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
Yeah. I'm just in my opinion, it's as close as
you can get to making it look like medicine or
having the mind go to medicine without claiming that it's
actually medicine.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
Because the FDA will pop you for that. There's also
a conspiracy related to doctor sebb that extends beyond his
claims to cure cancer, and that is the conspiracy surrounding
his passing. Here's how a lot of people found out
about doctor Sebbe. It was not through seeking cancer treatments.

(01:03:12):
It was through the interest of the late emce and
activist Nipsey Hustle, whom some of our fellow hip hop
fans may be familiar with. Hustle, at the time of
his own death, was reportedly working on a documentary about
doctor Sebbe, and we found a quote from him where
he seems to confirm this. He says, I'm working on

(01:03:32):
doing a documentary on the trial in the nineteen eighties,
and Hussell says, when doctor Sebbe went to trial in
New York, it was because he published in a newspaper
that he had cured aids. He beat that case, says Nipsey,
but nobody talks about it. I think the story is
important if you look into the case. The way that

(01:03:53):
the events broke down was that he was charged in
eighty seven with practicing medicine without a license, but he
was acquitted because jurors claim the state had failed to
show he made an actual medical diagnosis.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Yeah, and a claim that he was selling the cure
necessarily because it was more about diet right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
And after winning that case in the nineteen eighties, he
went on to work with various celebrities who believed in
his cause. Now, just I'm sure many of us listening
know this, but we have to emphasize it. Just because
someone happens to be famous does not in any way
make them smarter than you. It doesn't make them dumber

(01:04:38):
than you, It doesn't make them special in particular. It
just makes them a person, right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
And they probably have a better credit card than you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:47):
Yeah, they probably have a better credit rating.

Speaker 4 (01:04:48):
Yeah, shows really heavy slate ones.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
No, I didn't say credit rating, I say credit card.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
Okay, the blacks, Yeah, what the heft. So people like
Michael Jackson's and Segal, Eddie Murphy, John Travolta, Lisa Leftie
Lopez all swore by doctor Sebi. Lisa Lopez said, I
know a man who's been curing aid since nineteen eighty seven.
In her vociferous public support of the guy. But shortly afterwards,

(01:05:16):
she was run off the road and died after leaving
Sebbi's Usha healing village in Honduras. And some people will
tell you, people who believe there's more to the story,
they'll tell you that she was also targeted because she
had been spreading his healing message. He's also reputed to
have worked with Michael Jackson to treat painkiller addiction, and

(01:05:38):
Sebbi later sued Michael Jackson for almost four hundred grand
in unpaid bills and then six hundred something in lost revenue.
The case was dismissed in twenty fifteen, and a year later,
doctor Sebi dies. He's eighty two years old. He's in
a jail cell in Honduras. He was arrested for carrying

(01:06:00):
stacks and stacks of cash.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
Yeah, it was I think thirty something thousand and forty
fifty something thousand in another case. And he couldn't he
couldn't say where it came from. That was the big issue.
He's like, I just have this money. And he ended
up in jail and then got pneumonia and passed away.

Speaker 1 (01:06:20):
Or was it pneumonia? Yeah, it's officially pneumonia. But people
who believe that the academy or big Pharma was suppressing
his work will say that he was murdered by the
medical industry to again silence his message.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
Here's the deal. If big Pharma was going to take
out doctor Sebbi, their best chances were in the eighties,
probably or prior to the eighties before it was a
big deal, and then they had all the way up
to twenty sixteen to get the job done. And if
they did in fact murder him, just the amount of

(01:06:58):
time and effort, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Speaker 4 (01:07:03):
I seriously, you're saying they would have known the efficacy
of his claims at earlier and then would have acted accordingly,
as opposed to waiting until he got famous.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
Well, or maybe they couldn't take him out because he
was too hot at the time. Whatever. I just I'm
trying to gain I'm trying to go down the It
doesn't feel like he got killed to me. But that's
just my opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
So with this, what we see is this, these are
enormously contentious issues, and there's another conspiracy or a theory
that gets ignored, that gets lost in the wash here
or in the churn of different narratives, and it's this.
It's something that's well, there are two, I would argue

(01:07:46):
both are a little more plausible, and one is disturbing
and one is incredibly disturbing. The first is this that
there's a huge imbalance between private and public funding of
cancer research, and that leads critics to say you know,
big pharma may actually be slowing down the search for
a cure to cancer. The conspiracy here is not that

(01:08:06):
it exists, but that searching for it is being stymied
because these are profit driven entities, and they focus their
money on developing patentable single drug treatments and getting someone
hooked for life on a pill instead of testing combination
therapies or exploring a way to repurpose cheaper generic drugs.

(01:08:27):
And if that's the case, then we're looking at something
pretty depressing. It's less of a clever conspiracy by some
shadowy cabal, and it's more like a bunch of people
bumbling for short term profits because the long term stuff
just won't deliver what the stockholders want. The other one
and this one we save to the end because I
think it's by far the most frightening. What if there

(01:08:49):
is no conspiracy, What if there just is no cure.
What if all these things just don't work. That's a
world that people don't want to live in.

Speaker 4 (01:09:00):
And if anything bad, I mean, the thing that points
to that as being the most believable option is the
fact that these billionaires die of cancer.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
And that's hard to walk away from. That's hard to
square if any of this stuff is true.

Speaker 4 (01:09:13):
I mean, well, I suppose you could take the Epstein
approach and you know, like, oh, he died, he's dead,
and he died of suicide, and now he's maybe actually
secretly living on an island. Perhaps some of these billionaires
made it look like they died of cancer when in
fact they did receive the care and are now living
off the grid. Who knows, how will we prove it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:09:34):
I'm just again thought experiment.

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
Yeah, exactly. And that's the thing. So now we wrap up,
and of course we don't have an answer, but this
is a huge conversation that it is going to be
continuing in some form or another, very very likely for
the rest of our lives, unless there is some sort
of panas Head discovered. Let's ask ourselves the case for

(01:09:55):
or against conspiracy. So people who argue there is a
conspiracy are going to say that it's a profit motive.
There may be some Malthusian argument and they are saying
that cancer helps cull the population. But cancer takes a
while to kill people when it is fatal. Then there's
the argument against the conspiracy, which also hinges on profit.
Why would a profit motivated entity not instantly jump on

(01:10:19):
the ability to be the exclusive source of a cancer
cure that is hand over fist money.

Speaker 2 (01:10:25):
And it also would allow those people that you cured
to then take whatever other drugs that you're selling that
they might need in their lives.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
Right, yeah, exactly. And there's one thing for sure as
we end today, several of the alternative cancer cures being
sold to sick people across this planet are themselves the
result of true conspiracies, their schemes to exploit the desperate
hopes of people who are suffering from horrific disease and
to take their money without actually helping them at all,

(01:10:54):
and in some cases, harming them. If you or a
loved one are currently battling cancer, please do not give
up hope, and please please please be vigilant. If you
choose a certain treatment plan, whether tried and true or
relatively unorthodox, consult a medical professional, preferably several if you can,
before beginning treatment, and make sure that if something may

(01:11:16):
possibly help you, it doesn't also harm you. And that's
our classic episode for this evening. We can't wait to
hear your thoughts.

Speaker 4 (01:11:28):
It's right, let us know what you think you can reach.
You to the handle Conspiracy Stuff where we exist on
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Stuff Show.

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