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October 8, 2024 52 mins

When most people think of pyramids, we imagine the pyramids of Egypt -- but they're by no means the only example of this ancient architecture. In this Classic episode, Ben, Matt and Noel explore more stories of strange, lesser known pyramids, concentrating on the increasingly bizarre claims of pyramids hidden in the planet's northern climes, from Alaska to Antarctica.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the show, fellow conspiracy realist. We've got
a classic for you tonight. Pyramids. Oh man, pyramids, love.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Them, you let you know them, You made me love them.
They're pretty cool. How did they get there.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
In all of the places where they are? Right?

Speaker 1 (00:17):
We usually think of Egypt, but longtime listeners with this show,
you know that the world is full of pyramids of
plenty and sometimes. Back in twenty nineteen we were recording this,
we were learning that sometimes those pyramids can be overgrown
and you can easily miss them. As it crazy as

(00:38):
it might sound, So things like light our technology can
help people discover, whoops, what looks to be a hill
is actually a man made structure. Pre nice.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
Just there's so many rumors of pyramids being exactly what
you're saying, been like some mountain or hill that so
just just always been there and made structures in them
hills maybe, yeah, maybe? And could they even be in Alaska?

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Let's find out.

Speaker 4 (01:07):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeart Radios How Stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
Works welcome back to the show. My name is Matt
Noel is here in spirit.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
They call me Ben. We are joined as always with
our super producer Paul Mission controlled decand most importantly, you
are you. You are here and that makes this stuff.
They don't want you to know. For a check in, Matt,
I know usually I ask I ask you first, but
I just want to say I have to interject. I

(01:57):
am so glad to see you, man. Yeah, it's been
too long.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
It has been we you know, for any of you
that don't know out there, let's just give him a
little behind the curtain. We record three times a week
this show, so we usually have a time like time
to be together in a room talking, catching up before
recording and everything. And it has been notes all the time.

(02:21):
We are friends outside of this magical, darkened room where
we record. Yeah, so not having that has been it's
not been great.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
So I'm weird.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
Also happy to see you, sir.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Thanks man. It feels good. Yeah, yeah, it was. Let's
see Paul and I were in Texas and then we're
in Chicago for a second, and I am hopefully by
the time all our fellow listeners hear this, I will
have returned from Brussels.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
Wow, that's cool.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
I'm going there tomorrow as we record this.

Speaker 3 (02:56):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
But we'll still be able to record the morning tomorrow
because we have just to tease a bit. We have
a very interesting interview on the way. We have no
idea how this is gonna go. Yeah, we should probably
talk about that after we record today.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
This is it solid happening tomorrow?

Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (03:17):
Really so yeah?

Speaker 3 (03:19):
Oh my god. Okay, should we tease it? Yeah, let
me say it? Should we say it? Reptilians, the crown,
what else? Awakening the lion within?

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Oh? There we go, deep cuts? Good job man. Yeah. Yeah,
so it looks like we are interviewing David Ike.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, we made an episode about not that long ago.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
I hope, I hope I didn't jinx us saying that.
But that's if you are a longtime listener to this show,
or you're a fellow a conspiracy realist, you are aware
of the the more let's I don't want to I
don't know. Prominent maybe yeah, uh controvert. He he gets

(04:09):
a lot of press and he's been a prolific author
for quite a while. Uh so we are somehow going
to be speaking with him.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
Yeah, I'm so excited.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
I'm excited. I hope, I hope we do all right, because,
as you know, there are a couple of times where
I've felt that, uh, you know, we didn't quite get
one hundred percent where we should have been on interviews.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
Well, well we're going to get there. And just the
concept of what he experienced when he was younger and
then went on television and told the world about it.
That that concept of somehow at least believing that you've
been gifted a message from some higher power throughout history
that's been happening to human beings Like I am so

(04:56):
fascinated by that. I really hope he's willing to go
deep there and talk about that. I cannot wait. It
really is something I've been hoping would happen on this
show and through this show, that we would get to
speak with him at some point. It took a while,
but we got there.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
Absolutely. So for everyone who has asked that we speak
with David Ike, hopefully we will do you proud. I am,
as you know, Matt, I am, I am hype adverse.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
Yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
We'll see. I just gotta, you know, I just gotta
make it through my shady international stuff. That's that's what
I'm thinking. So I guess great, Great, We're gonna talk
to David ike that I'm off the grid for a minute,
but I will be back. Yes, And we're doing live
shows in Atlanta. Yeah, you and I. And now now

(05:53):
with all that update, all that prolog, I have to ask,
how how are you doing? Man? I almost almost I
must send you some prank text when I was at
the Alamo, but decided against it.

Speaker 3 (06:04):
Oh, Man, I would have accepted. I'm doing really well.
You know, everything in my life is focused on my son,
and we're doing this thing where every morning he makes
a picture of a letter and then we talk about
what that letter is, and then the whole day is
about that letter. It's so cool, so like walking around
going to the grocery store pointing out things that are

(06:24):
like start with B. It's so it's so much fun,
and it sounds mundane and silly. I can't tell you
how much I love it. That's that's what's going on
with me. Ben, That's great. I want to ask you
how you're doing personally and with what's going on. Yeah,
but I have a feeling you would respond no comment Okay,

(06:46):
so let's go ahead. Let's go ahead and get into
the episode. Everyone, we're talking pyramids.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
Today, right, Yes, pyramids. Pyramids some of the oldest known
structures built by human so far as we know. And
these structures have also captivated human beings, not just in
the recent days when they are seen as mysterious and enigmatic,
but during the times that they were built, right and.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
Yeah, especially coming across Let's say you're walking along a river.
You're following a river in exploration of some kind, and
out in the distance you see something towering and it
has sharp angles to it, which you don't find anywhere
in nature. And as you get closer, you realize how
large this structure is.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
It's not just a mountain in the middle of the desert.

Speaker 3 (07:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yeah, it's fascinating to put ourselves back in space and time.
In a previous episode, we explored these stories of pyramids
in other parts of the world, which is a real
it's a real thing, you know what I mean. Like
one of the earliest pyramids we know about would be

(07:59):
the Ziggurats in Mesopotamia, right, absolutely, Uh, they don't get
a lot of street cred. You know, a lot of
people never heard of Mesopotamia until Ghostbusters came out in
the eighties. Or no, no, no, maybe the Exorcist.

Speaker 3 (08:17):
To be fair, Oh there you go.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Because isn't Pazuzu. Maybe Pezusu is Samarrian.

Speaker 3 (08:23):
It all sounds familiar.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
It all sounds familiar, right. So in that episode, we
we explore what pyramids are, get into the architecture of
the structures, how they're typically built, and so on, and
we talk about how there are multiple different kinds of pyramids. Right. Yeah,
and this this reminded me of a conversation that was

(08:46):
a little tangential, but I thought you would enjoy. I
saw one of those Internet hypotheticals right when it was
it hypothetical questions your friends post on the Internet, and
it said, okay, here's the gist. If someone gave you
ten million dollar right now, cash in hand, with the
following caveats, would you take the money. Here are the caveats. One,

(09:08):
a snail will follow you for the rest of your life. Two,
if the snail touches you, you will die. And then
there were a couple other snail related things. Yeah, my
first question with that was, well, what type of snail?
Because they're not all. You know, when we see the
word snail, we all think of like the same crenelated

(09:29):
shell and the you know, the the like living booger
that crawls around under it. But there are different sorts
of snails, and there are different sorts of pyramids. So
the thing that is interesting about this for our purpose
is that there's so many misconceptions about pyramids. Right. People think,
when we think of a pyramid, we think of the

(09:50):
angular structure you're describing. I love that moment you took
us back to where there's someone maybe living a hunter
gatherer lifestyle or something, and they're they're walking along the
river and then they see the seat of human civilization.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
It's breathtaking and they don't get immediately killed by the
security forces or of some kind, right, right.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
Or the crocodiles or the other wildlife. Yes. Uh So
when we think of pyramids, we think of pyramids in Egypt,
located in uh northern Africa.

Speaker 3 (10:28):
And it's all because of the movie Stargate, just.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
Completely because of the movie Stark, which is an amazing
documentary it is. So it's strangely because as we found,
there are pyramids and other parts of the world, right.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
Oh, yeah, they're not just in Egypt. We in our
previous episodes we found them in South America. We or
we knew that they were in South America. We also
found them in Africa, parts of Asia. I mean, it's
it's fascinating, and we keep talking about this because anytime
we bring up pyramids, you just get back to the

(11:05):
question of why, Like why, why the heck, why did
you do it that way? What is it? Why? Why
did you do that?

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, that's my favorite part too. You know, like obelisk
these are weird. Remember when we went to uh we
went up to d C. And we filmed some stuff
about the Washington Monument. Yes, which once upon a time
was going to be you know, a statue of George Washington,
but now it's you know, it's this ridiculously phallic thing

(11:32):
you can crawl up inside of and reach the top.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
Man, the tip, I don't know that's.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
What it's all about. But really, the just that that
that concept is still baffling to me. With all the
varying types, like you're talking about the ziggarettes, the you know,
the more angular pyramids, the stepped pyramids, all these things,
it's just they're so symbolic and I think outwardly embolic

(12:00):
of something to have that shape. It also goes back to,
you know, the construction process of you know, building up
in that way, right, right, But still it's just I
don't know, there's something so mysterious about it.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
It's true. Yet we know that we know that the
primary purposes of pyramids and pyramid like structures I would
also include maybe mounds in the North American continent. We
know that the primary purposes tended to be spiritual or funereal. Right,

(12:36):
these are gigantic tombs taj Mahal's style, or these are
in the case of some zig rats, holy sites, sacred
sites of worship wherein rituals are enacted.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
At least that's our best understanding from the work of
archaeology in our.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
Rights, right, the work of some brilliant archaeologists, and then
also the work of some just morally bankrupt ones back
in the day. And then that's you know, like the
racism that gave rise later first to the idea of
law civilizations and then later to the idea of extraterrestrials.
Because the people and we have to hit this fact.

(13:15):
The people who wrote a lot of early early stories
about discovering these different amazing structures in different parts of
the world. They they were somehow, on some level offended
by the idea that the ancestors of the local people
could have built those. Yeah, so there you have it.

(13:38):
We know that that's the craziest thing we know that pyramids,
despite being ancient, the ancient pyramids and structures we talked about,
remain controversial today, not just because of the institutionalized discrimination
and stuff, but also because people continued to claim that

(13:59):
they have discovered more ancient pyramids.

Speaker 3 (14:01):
Thanks to Google Earth.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
May don't you know? I love Google Earth and Light Are.

Speaker 3 (14:07):
I know that's true? We will, we all do. They're
amazing tools. It just it gives an opportunity to at
least search from behind a computer screen the entire planet
for things that look angular are out of place, or
square rectangular.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
Right. And it's not to say that these things don't
exist somewhere in the world, because in many parts of
the world, the surrounding ecosystem will eat everything made by man.
You know what I mean. You can build something in
a jungle and it can just for all intents and purposes,

(14:43):
it can vanish. Yeah, and I think you know, you
and I probably both still check in to see how
many new ruins or ancient sites are found just in
the Amazon alone, because a ton so. So we know
that these things do exist, but we also know that
there's a lot of exaggeration and a lot of hyperbole

(15:03):
involved in these claims. Generally, these discoveries become controversial for
one reason or another, and it's not it's not a
case of you know, someone pretending to be a scientist
in lyne or selling snake oil, as is so often
the case in a lot of scientific research. The scientists,

(15:26):
the archaeologist, the experts. They say one thing, maybe in
a relatively obscure journal of some sort, and then someone
someone else says, hey, this would be a great headline
for my my blog, my my pop culture news thing, right,

(15:48):
my fringe website, my French website. Sure, and then then
all of a sudden, what the scientists really we're saying
gets convoluted and telephoned into something different. And that's where
we get into these claims of ancient hitherto unknown civilizations,
or they try to find something that is a selling

(16:13):
point for a pyramid, because in mainstream news or infringe
websites just saying, hey, here is a pyramid found that
confirms long held beliefs that this group of people lived
in this way, yes, or this crop or et cetera,
et cetera. We want want some apurbole, you know, we
want some superlatives, like when you graduate high school.

Speaker 3 (16:35):
Well, yeah, and the reader and or listener or whoever
I think is just my opinion, wants to have that
discovery moment, that Eureka moment where it's oh, civilization was older,
or civilization did exist in this part of the world,
or you know that kind of I don't even know

(16:58):
exactly what it is. It's that it's a mystery being solved, right,
and you want that answer even if it doesn't even
if it's a question that you weren't even really asking
in that moment, but you see the potential for this
answer to a cool thing. I'm not sure I'm assuing that, right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
We like we like patterns and solutions. Yeah, we like
seeing uh, we like seeing the bridge between concept day
and concept be Human beings are all about connection, right, Yeah.
I think I think that's a I think that's profoundly
a stupe man because now we're talking about psychological drive,

(17:35):
and so what what does this what does this drive
mean when we read about pyramids.

Speaker 3 (17:41):
Well, it means, like you said, there are all these claims, uh,
that this is the oldest one. Here's the biggest revelation
that you're going to get with regards to this whole thing,
and we're going to give it to you right now,
such as let's say it's let's say it's nineteen ninety
six and you're at the endepend and you get a

(18:04):
you know, a tip about some seashell constructions in Brazil,
and you post it up and you put a title
that says something like world's oldest pyramids are discovered in Brazil.
But that's literally all you have to put at the title.
That's what they put, world's oldest pyramids are discovered.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
Right, Because with this kind of reporting, people love seeing
an st an eest, the big st, the old st
the strange s, right, And so when we see the
world's oldest pyramid, we think, what Brazil? That is definitely
not Egypt. So the story with this is interesting because

(18:47):
this is just one of a pattern of oldest pyramid claims. Right.
The Brazil Pyramids date back to two thousand BC three
thousand or BCE, whatever you prefer. And the construction techniques
are different, because again, not every pyramid is created equal.

(19:09):
These are as, you said, met built of seashells, and
they were built over a long period of time. But
for I think starting in maybe nineteen ninety two or so,
about four years for the articles published, teams of researchers
based in the area had been trying to figure out

(19:30):
what was up with these things because they had been
largely deconstructed.

Speaker 3 (19:36):
Yes, or broken down, right, that's just over through natural
processes and stuff, or you know, destroyed, right, And they
were literally called in that article the remnants were called
piles of ancient rubbish.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
Yep, exactly. Yeah, they were deliberately built. But while archaeologists
estimate there used to be a ton of them, a
thousand pyramids, there are some thousands and thousands of years old,
only ten percent survive in any recognizable way. They thought

(20:17):
the structures were one hundred and sixty feet high with
bases that were up to thirty seven acres, So this
makes them much bigger than the earliest examples in Egypt,
not as high, and also they took a long long
time to build, so that's a claim, and that's a
fairly reputable claim. The one thing that makes it different

(20:41):
when you really think about pyramids in Egypt is that
pyramids in Egypt have survived in not the best condition.
But as pyramids go, they're top notch, you know what
I mean. They are what fans of classic cars call
cherry condition, rightes. Yeah, So unfortunately a lot of the

(21:03):
pyramids in Brazil are not like that. They don't exist anymore.
But now you can claim that's the this is the
oldest pyramid.

Speaker 3 (21:14):
Well yeah, And again, when you're establishing the age of
something like that, let's say the primary construction is made
of seashells. The mode of determining the age of those
is to then carbon date somehow the structure or whatever
is made up of those things. And if you're dealing

(21:35):
with seashells, I guess by carbondating the shells themselves is
how you get that number or that range. But still
there's so much variance there. I guess that's why you
have something like some of these are two thousand, three
thousand years old, some of them are up to five
thousand years.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Old, and those estimates to get so ballparky at some point,
you know, oh yeah, speaking of one could say, however
that you know what, the margin on the margin on
the dating process here may be pretty large, but it
doesn't invalidate everything. So sorry, Egypt, that's it. Brazil has.

(22:18):
What we now know is Brazil has the oldest pyramids.
But this was not the only claim for the oldest pyramid.
The debate continues today. We'll tell you more about it
after a word from our sponsors.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
We're back and we're going to jump to a different
part of the world in a different time. Oh yes,
so we were in the nineties ninety six to be exact.
Let's jump to just a couple of years ago, twenty sixteen,
and in Kazakhstan.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
That's right, man. In twenty sixteen, a report came from
an archaeologist working at the Kazakh Nash University, a fellow
named Victor novel Zanov. This apologies for the most pronunciation there.
He claimed that specialist working at the Sayakinski Archaeology Institute
in Kargandha, Kazakhstan, led by a guy named Igor Kukushkin,

(23:18):
had discovered the world's oldest pyramid in wait for it, Kazakhstan.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
There we go there, we go, and that's another oldest
pyramid and it's you know, it's another one of these
super captivating headlines, captivating stories. The headline itself was world's
oldest pyramid was found and it's in Kazakhstan. That was
from Nature World News, so, you know, slightly different publication,

(23:43):
but still it's that same kind of title that's just
going to get your attention. So it's believed to be
built roughly one thousand years earlier than some of the
more prominent pyramids that are found in Egypt. Yeah, a
thousand years before that is that it's pretty significant if
if that's proven right. So it's located in this place

(24:04):
called the Sariyaka Steps and it's near the city of Karaganda.
It's like three nine hundred miles northeast of Cairo, Egypt.
You know, that's that's a long way. That's a frea comparison,
really long way. And you know, it's similar in appearance
to some of the other pyramids that exists there, the

(24:26):
Pyramid of Dozer or jo Jozer. I don't know how
to pronounce any of those things. I'm sorry, but again
it's really interesting. You can find the article on it
if if you go and look and you know, there's
more you can find here.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
It popped up on It popped up in a couple
of places in twenty sixteen that you know, Yahoo wrote
about it. You can also find this statement from novel
Zanov who believes that this was This is what they
call a step pyramid, so it doesn't have that complete

(25:03):
flat angle, yes, like a pyramid of Giza or something,
but he believes it was a Moslem built for a
local king. Still, the age of it seems legit, but
does that make it the oldest pyramid or structure of
this type, No, say researchers. In Indonesia. You see geophysicist

(25:26):
Danny Hillman not the with Jaja. And again, thank you,
thank you to everyone who tuned into our episode on
the Arang Minyac Errang Mignac and told us that if
our pronunciation was terrible, at least it was endearing and amusing. Yes,

(25:48):
so hopefully that's what we're going for here, folks improv rules. Yeah,
This geophysicist based on the Indonesian Institute of Sciences analyzed
a site called Gunong Padang in Java in Indonesia, and
they said that this thing that people thought was just

(26:10):
a weird hill for a long long time was actually
a pyramid, and a very very old pyramid. This is,
by the way, one of the more well researched claims
at this point. Yes, which is not a ding on
the other pyramids. This is just to say that the
site in Indonesia and the team in Indonesia had more

(26:32):
time to spend and access to better tech.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
Yeah, they did. They had ground penetrating radar and a
couple other things. And they also took photographs of the
site and published them and made them available so that
you could see You could really see it rather than
just being you know, some text on a website somewhere
that always lends credibility. If you go to science alert

(26:57):
dot com, you can find some images, some aerial photographs
that were taken and some like closer up to the structures.
It's it's really fascinating to see. I don't know this one.
This one gets me.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
This is compelling, Yeah, this is compelling. This What's strange
about this one is that while it was presented in
an academic setting, I think on December twelfth at the
Annual Media in the American Geophysical Union, it was still
considered highly controversial, but the research is compelling. You can

(27:39):
you can read it in depth if you just if
you just check it out online. It looks like there
were four separate layers and they were built over thousands
of years. So the first layer, the one that we
would consider the surface, looks to be about three thousand

(27:59):
and five hundred years old. The second layer, however, looks
to be eight thousand years old. And then they get
to the really crazy stuff. This is where it becomes
super controversial, right, Yeah, the third layer, according to their estimate,
is somewhere between nine thousand and twenty eight thousand years old. Yeah,

(28:21):
twenty eight thousand.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
I mean maybe honestly, maybe maybe we just don't know yet, man,
But that seems a bit of a stretch. I mean,
it's pretty crazy if you look at it too. They've
got an example of the layering. This shows you all
the different ones in the structure and how it looks.

(28:45):
And that initial peer, the initial layer that you're talking about,
the one that's that has that range of age. It
is the most sharply angled, the most basic pyramid struck
sure like part of the entire thing. And you know,
if that truly could have been built, even just at

(29:07):
the minimum of that number nine thousand years ago. That
is so significant for humanity and the history you know,
of bipedal intelligent things walking around on this earth. That's
pretty dang cool.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
I can't wait to get to Indonesia one day, man,
there's so much history there that we just don't know
about in the West, you know. So one thing we
do have to say about this, about this site is
that when I mentioned that the research was considered controversial,
I mean it's a ton of people are criticizing the
team's conclusions and their methods. They're very much going hard

(29:49):
on the paint with this. Right now, the presentations that
they've made remain non peer reviewed, which is a big
criticism by their opponent. But time will tell, right, the
wheels of archaeology grind slow but exceedingly fine, if we're paraphrasing,

(30:10):
And they've been at this since twenty thirteen, so it
looks like they're giving it a serious go. And this
is not going to be the last ancient site that's found,
right absolutely, so we know that there may be even
older stuff out there. And the idea, you know, it's

(30:31):
almost it's almost the wrong way to phrase the question
when we say, let's search for the oldest man made thing,
because there are so many things we don't know. Let's
just search for all the old stuff. That's what we
need to do, right, because so much of it has
already disappeared. But this leads us to I mean, we

(30:55):
had a long preamble here, but this leads us to
something that I think captivated us. You hipped me to this, Matt.
More and more people have started to claim that Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Egypt, Brazil,
that they have nothing on the true old structures, that

(31:17):
there are much much older pyramids out there in some
of the world's most remote locales. We always think of
Egypt when it comes to pyramids, But what about Alaska?

Speaker 3 (31:30):
And we'll talk about that right after a word from
our sponsor.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
Here's where it gets crazy. It's true, fellow conspiracy realists.
In recent years, various groups have claimed pyramids created by
some unknown civilization can be found in both Alaska and Antarctica.
Now we've explored the Antarctica theory briefly before.

Speaker 3 (31:59):
Yes, we have, and but before you even get into that,
let's let's establish here just the concept of general belief
in how humanity began, you know, in the fertile Crescent
in parts of Africa, exactly where where the rivers were,

(32:20):
where the water was, where the the land again was fertile,
and people could survive more easily, let's say, even though
life was a struggle, and then humanity spread out from there,
going to all corners of the earth over over the
course of time. Right. So when you introduce an idea

(32:43):
that perhaps there's an even older version of humanity that
existed in some other part of the world, that's that's
why it's such a controversial idea because it goes against
the basic understandings that are that are generally accepted.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
I see. That's a good point because you know, the
most popular theory for human human arrival in North and
South America as we call them today is the crossing
the Bearing Strait via the Bearing Land Bridge, which was
about twenty thousand years ago, I think. So the issue

(33:24):
with that is, for instance, there's a twenty eight thousand
year old pyramid in Indonesia. The issue with this idea
of a pyramid in Alaska is how is one of
pure resources and timeline? Right, Because if you notice a

(33:44):
lot of these pyramids that we've mentioned in other parts
of the world are built in more human friendly environments,
you know what I mean. So the idea of pyramids
being built in these freezing areas, it seems like something
that would turn our understanding of history completely on its

(34:05):
head if this were true. So what about Antarctica. Let's
just do it quick and dirt.

Speaker 3 (34:11):
Okay, we talked about this for check out the other
episode if you have time. Let's just say in nineteen
you know, Tennish, the early nineteen tens, the teens there too,
some British explorers were hanging out in Antarctica. They were
looking around, going, this is pretty desolate, Barren. I'm not

(34:32):
seeing much here. Until they saw rock, nice pointy rock,
and they said, hey, let's put this on our map.
It's a pyramid. It's the pyramid rock. It's a type
of a pyramid.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
Great, Finally that's what it is.

Speaker 3 (34:48):
You know, it was probably some kind of natural formation
or you know, from shearing from ice or something. Generally,
let's say that that's probably what it was. Isn't necessarily
exactly what it was or who knows what they found?
There may be a mystery out there in Antarctica still
with the old pyramid rock. We haven't been able to

(35:10):
find it thus far, neither of us have been to Antarctica.
But this, let's call it a seed. This concept of oh,
there's a pyramid on this map of Antarctica, somebody labeled
that that becomes a catalyst for all kinds of stories.

Speaker 4 (35:29):
Right.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
Yes, some were admittedly fiction, such as at the Mountains
of Madness, written by HP Lovecraft in nineteen thirty one.
Some were more rumor mill kind of stuff reported as
if they were true in newspapers right in the following decades.

(35:51):
But from twenty twelve to twenty sixteen there was a
new round of rumors spreading, and they were based on
photographs that apparently showed something, some geographical feature in Antarctica
with regular triangular sides, the kind of stuff that, to

(36:11):
your point, met earlier in the show would not occur
in nature. And so it was the argument about the
face or pyramid on Mars all over again. People on
one end were saying, this is true. Someone's covering this up,
this is stuff they don't want you to know. And
then there were other people saying, well, if we don't
get photographs of this thing at multiple angles. How do

(36:34):
we know this is not just a trick of perspective,
which is different from immediately calling bs. It's just saying,
go back there, take more pictures.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
Yeah, let's verify. What is it the old adage trust
but verify?

Speaker 1 (36:50):
Yeah? Yeah, right. And it's funny because there were even
more rumors spreading. I think the favorite is our return
a returning champion of our show Buzz, Doctor Rendezvous. Aldron
returned in this story because I think in twenty sixteen,
towards the end of twenty sixteen, there was this rumor

(37:11):
that he posted a picture of this ice pyramid as
people were calling it and then said we were all
in danger. It is evil at chev and then he
rapidly deleted it.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
Yeah, that was the rumor.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
That was the rumor.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
But what if he really did that? How crazy would
that be If Doctor Rendezvous was like, look at this pyramid,
they're here too, Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Oh man, I don't know. That would be that would
be out of character.

Speaker 3 (37:41):
For him, Yeah, I really would. Oh gosh.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
That's because he's known sort of as a you know,
as someone who's trolled a conspiracy theorists before or what
he calls conspiracy theorists. But anyways, so that's that's Antarctica
at this point. Don't get us wrong. There's a lot
of very stuff that happens on that continent, and it's

(38:05):
part of the reason I think that you and I
want to go. Yes, and maybe we can talk Paul
into going with us.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
But he's had some Iceland experience. I think maybe he
would be fantastic as like a guide and a oh,
spiritual advisor. I think, okay, yeah, Paul, can you come
with us?

Speaker 1 (38:21):
Cool? He says, yes, Great, he's in Let us know. Also,
if you have been to Antarctica, we'd love to hear
your adventures. So Alaska, let's talk about this one. This
is a little more recent, and this is a bit
more enigmatic. According to a couple of people, there's something

(38:42):
strange buried in the ground about fifty miles from Mount
McKinley today. The most well known proponent of this idea
is a writer and ufologist named Linda Moulton Howe. Here's
how the story starts. All right, travel back with us
to Anchorage in nineteen ninety two. This is just for comparison,

(39:09):
the same year that the Brazilian research team began digging
into the Seashell pyramids.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
So true.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
Yeah, nineteen ninety two. Same year, there was a television
news broadcast from Channel thirteen out of Anchorage, and they
had a segment about this discovery by geologists and other
more time scientists of an underground pyramid that they said
was many times the size of existing pyramids in Egypt.

Speaker 3 (39:38):
And specifically the Great Pyramid of Giza exactly.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
So here's how here's the rumor, here's how it went out.
So US scientists were concerned about nuclear tests being conducted
underground by the government of China, so they set up
seismic equipment and elast to monitor this possibility of nuclear testing.

Speaker 3 (40:06):
And keep in mind, just while this is all happening,
it's President George H. W. Bush in the White House.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
Good call, good call. This discovery again was only allegedly reported.
And a scientist accord, this is a campfire story. If
you're listening, you, Matt, Paul, and I were all gathered
around a campfire, so let's use our campfire voices. So

(40:32):
the next day a scientist visits the station, this Channel
thirteen out of Anchorage, and he says, could I get
a copy of that video. No such broadcasts exists, they responded,
and he was stonewalled. Twenty years later, a retired military
officer named Douglas A. Mutchler claimed to have seen this

(40:55):
Channel thirteen report and he gave this information to ufologist
and investigative journalist Linda Moulton. Howe how confirmed the nuclear test,
but seems to agree with Muschler that there's more to
the story. You see, she believes that there is a
pyramid and that any information about it has been covered

(41:18):
up by someone or some organization thing something.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Oh man, that's that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
It's awesome. It has even more fuel to the fire
here because you see, there was also a video that
came out apparently recently that that showed footage of this pyramid, uh,
that a team of explorers stumbled upon. Right, But there

(41:51):
are some problems with the video too.

Speaker 3 (41:53):
Oh, there are certainly problems with the video. My understanding
is that it has this thing that that's called text
of voice.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
Oh right, right right, where people want to disguise their
voices or accents or what have you, or.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
Just to be able to type something anonymously and then
have the computer vocalize it.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Can you do a computer voice.

Speaker 3 (42:11):
Me mine would just probably be misconstrued as Stephen hawking.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
Oh I see yeah, I want to stay away from
that one.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
Huh yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:19):
But it's the similar thing where it's a program that
is vocalizing the words there, but the I just want
to get this really fast because this is the most
mind bling thing for me with this whole story, this
campfire story there, because you know it mentions that this person,
Linda Howe, confirmed the nuclear test that China conducted, right, Well,

(42:42):
we can also confirm that that occurred, or at least
there was reporting about it in places like the New
York Times and the Chicago Tribune in May specifically of
nineteen ninety two, when China conducted a large test and
the signal or the vibrations from that test were registered

(43:04):
throughout the United States, specifically their system of detection devices
that are all over the planet.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
Right right and have been since shortly after the invention
of nuclear weapons.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
Yeah, so that story itself has that it's that grain
of truth thing where when you're looking into a campfire
story like this, you begin to see the walls they're illuminating.
You're like, oh, there, we're actually in a space. This
really does exist wherever this is or whatever this is.
But then you go looking a little bit further and

(43:38):
you get to that point where Linda says, you know,
the actual location of where this pyramid is though, has
been secreted away, it's been covered up.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
And then it goes back to your original question. When
we're talking about pyramids in general, a question of motive.
Why cover this up? Why do the guys say, is
it perhaps a sacred site for local cultures or is
it a site that is considered unclean for some reason.
The problem with both of those claims is that other

(44:15):
holy places throughout the world have almost always become tourist destinations.

Speaker 3 (44:22):
Yeah, and you could make money off of those things,
and that's nice, but here's the thing. Yesun Alaska, where
it was located, not gonna get tourism out there. Probably
you got to build a bunch of civilization first.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
Or maybe someone already did. That's the argument, right, that's
the argument. So it is true, though you're absolutely right
that there wasn't just one test in nineteen ninety two.
There was a test on the twenty first of May,
a test on the twenty fifth of September, and a
failed test on November two, all in the same year,

(45:01):
so this this was extensive testing. But the one you
had mentioned in the New York Times article, it's true
that was the largest underground test the government of China
had taken at that time. So it is true. But
the problem here is that there's very little indication of

(45:21):
a pyramid in Alaska from anybody other than these sources
that we've named. It does lead us to something interesting
that we had never covered before, which was the existence
of a Bermuda triangle in Alaska, the Alaska and Bermuda Triangle.

(45:42):
This is the kind of thing that a lot of
more mainstream television producers love. Yes, you know you can
see I'm sure you can find a cheesy episode about this.
But just so that everyone has the concept, maybe we
can explore this and see if there's more sin to
it later. There is this belief that much like the

(46:04):
Devil's Triangle in the Pacific or the Bermuda Triangle in
the Atlantic, Alaska has its own triangle in which people disappear.
It's an area sparsely, very sparsely populated wilderness. It's very cold,
it's a inhospitable location. Wild animals abound right and this

(46:30):
triangle's thought to stretch from Barrow, Alaska in the north,
which I think was popularized in Thirty Days of Night,
to Anchorage and south of the left all the way
down to June. And it's different because it largely goes
over land, right, yeah, rather than ocean. Maybe there's a

(46:50):
bay or two that it cross as yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
And in this case, it's generally just I think one
of the concepts here is that it's generally forest areas,
it's mountain areas a lot, there's a lot of it's
very cold, there's a lot of ice, there's a lot
of snow, there's a lot of all of these things
that are somewhat inhospitable for humans right in within this

(47:12):
triangle area in the center of at least before you
get out to the edges. And you know, a lot
of the claims that have to do with the Devil's Triangle,
the Muted Triangle and all these things they have to
do with a lot of magnetic anomalies. A lot of
times they have to do with weather patterns that occur

(47:34):
within those spaces. And you could at least you can
imagine something occurring here. We're in this some it's not desolate.
It's just it's not a place where a lot of
humans gather and have all of their stuff. Right.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
I think we should do an episode on this in
the future.

Speaker 3 (47:51):
Well, I think so too, because the disappearances that have
occurred over this little triangle within Alaska, there are many,
and they're frightening.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
Since nineteen ninety eight, more than sixteen thousand people have
vanished in this this area mapped out as the Triangle.
This contributed to an average of roughly four missing person
reports for every one thousand people in Alaska. That is
more than double the national average. Gosh, so not only

(48:22):
are there relatively few people in this part of the world,
but a lot of them go missing. Maybe maybe Alaska
is just a place where people get off the grid,
you know, or maybe they they end up at the pyramid.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
I've been Oh that's the thing. Okay, okay, look, before
we wrap up, let's let's talk about the biggest, at
least most fascinating out there concept for why a pyramid
in Alaska would be covered up? All right, do you
want me just tell you what it is?

Speaker 1 (48:55):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (48:55):
I think you know it.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
What is it?

Speaker 3 (48:57):
We've been talking about ancient like human civilization building it
or something like that.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
Uh huh.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
But the concept that perhaps all of these pyramids across
the world, the big conspiracy, were all influenced by the
same extraterrestrial force that shaped humanity, that perhaps seeded intelligence
on this earth, on this planet, like an intelligent panspermia

(49:24):
kind of thing. That to me is the most captivating
version of this of Like, that's why a lot of
these secrets are still hidden. That's why we don't truly
understand the pyramids in Egypt. That's why we truly don't
fully understand why they're everywhere and all of all of

(49:44):
humanity was so fascinated by that shape and that structure.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
That's kind of a sacred geometry argument too. Yeah, so
stargate stargate, I mean not to not to diminish that
that would that would be amazing if it were somehow true.
The counter argument people make for that, of course, is
that at the time, given understanding construction and technology, that

(50:09):
was the easiest thing to build that would last for
a long time. You know what I mean, I know,
I know, I wish you know what, Matt, I hope
the truth is out there too. Yeah, let me too,
Hey tell you what if we do meet extraterrestrials in
our lifetimes, if I ever meet them, even if you're

(50:30):
not there, I Am going to try to get them
to build a pyramid, even if they don't care what
it is, and they're just like, they think it's our
our hello ritual. If they spend the rest of their
time with our species thinking that instead of you know,
waving or shaking hands or vocalizing, you build someone a
pyramid as a way of greeting them from scratch. It'll
be great. Yeah, it'll be worth it.

Speaker 3 (50:52):
Yeah, I'm so down with that.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
Let's get t shirts with pyramids on them.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
I want. What I want to see is, let's do
a pyramid on the ground right when it's kind of
a nice sea is kind of surrounding. We did it depends,
it doesn't matter what kind of musigrat it could be whatever.
But then above it is an inverted version that has
lights on the top of it. In the bottom that's
like hovering down or coming down. So it's like as

(51:18):
above so below, and.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
It's kind of like the old UFO pictures where the
UFO would be cast in a tractor beam down on
the ground. We could also oh you know what, let's
go with that design.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
That's brilliant.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
I have a caption, tell me what you think, aliens.
The first pyramid scheme is that no not yet, yeah, yeah,
let's do it now you're good? Ah well and no
Matt Frederick And that's our classic episode for this evening.

(51:52):
We can't wait to hear your thoughts. We try to
be easy to find online.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
Find it to the handle Conspiracy Stuff, where we exist
on Facebook x and YouTube on its Sagram, a TikTok
where Conspiracy Stuff show.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
Call our number. It's one eight three three st d wytk,
leave a voicemail.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
And if you have more to say, we can't wait
to hear from you at our good old fashioned email
address where we are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

Speaker 3 (52:35):
Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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