May 6, 2025 • 63 mins
The legendary civilization of Atlantis was first mentioned in the works of Plato, in dialogues that claimed to recount information from translations of ancient Egyptian texts. And people have been searching for this city ever since. So what was Atlantis, exactly? A metaphor, a work of fiction ... or a real, physical place? Join "Ben," Matt and Noel as they explore the fact and fiction of the ancient legend of Atlantis.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh, fellow conspiracy realist, this classic episode is a such
a treat for us and hopefully a treat for you
as well. We mentioned Edgar Casey in a recent recording
about the prophecy of the Popes and the idea of
prophecy in general, and Edgar Casey super into Atlantis.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Yeah, and super into the idea that there was some
advanced civilization before what we know as civilization. Great, something
must have existed because of all of these weird little
pieces of evidence we find throughout.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
The world technologically superior to modern existence.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
And it's one of those stories that I think has
captured the imaginations of so many people because there just
seems to be this idea of what came before us.
And you know, I think there's a good reason that
the whole idea of this underwater advanced civilization with technology
that we couldn't possibly wrap our heads around has endured
(00:58):
so much because I know there is something about lost
civilizations that just causes the mind to kind of become
pretty intrigued, at least for me personally, I don't know
about you guys.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, So we're going to get into is Atlantis even
the original lost civilization.
Speaker 5 (01:16):
Gain from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History
is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now
or learn this stuff they don't want you to know.
A production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is No.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
They call me Ben.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
We are joined as always with our super producer Paul,
Mission controlled decand most importantly, you are here and that
makes this stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
It occurs to me that although this.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Soda is coming out in twenty twenty January, most likely
this is the last episode we are going to record
for the year. We're recording this at the very end
of twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Woo, Yes, the Lost Decade?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
What? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
The teams.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
It's interesting because we're also covering something today that many
of our fellow listeners have asked us to cover for
years and years and years. We have touched upon this,
we have mentioned it, but as you all know, longtime listeners,
when we first set out creating this show, we generally
(02:41):
wanted to go for more obscure things, things that were
on the edges of the map, things that mainstream people
probably would not have encountered.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Before things that used to be on the map.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Right, so we skipped over initially things like the jfk
assassination in area fifty one, you know, the moon landing,
all those History Channel hits. Today we are finally, we
are finally investigating something that has been a long time
coming or a long time going. If you go, if
(03:15):
you believe the story, and that is the tale of Atlantis,
not Atlanta Atlantis. So here are the facts, according to
the folklore, the stories that we all know. Atlantis was
a civilization located on a mysterious island and in ancient
(03:37):
times we do very much mean ancient. This civilization was
a seat of great culture and learning. Like later seats
of learning such as Alexandria. People came to Atlantis from
far and why to learn the secrets of technology, to
divine the workings of the world and the gods, the heavens,
(04:00):
and the firmament. We know that it was a city
laid out on this island in sort of concentric rings,
and it had a central canal going through to the center.
But Atlantis had some issues. Despite the fact that it
was so advanced in architecture, art and technology. It was
(04:21):
destroyed nine thousand years ago, six hundred years ago when
a wave and earthquake sent by Poseidon, the god of
waves and the sea and earthquakes. When Poseidon got tired
of them, he sent these natural disasters or divine disasters,
(04:42):
to punish the inhabitants for their wicked ways.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Wait a minute, there, weren't the gods pretty Bacchanalian themselves.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
The interesting choice of words there. Yeah, Any study of
Greco Roman gods, even the Old Testament god of Judaism, Islam,
and Christianity, shows a pretty clear study in hypocrisy. You
know what I mean, do as I say, not as
I do.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
I think didn't Zeus come down to Earth in the
form of like a bull.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
A ram, a goose, goose?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah? So he could.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
With hisomever, right, Yeah? And I think he stayed in
goose form when he did that, or.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
The way the story goes, yeah, weird and the you know,
that's very common in tales of pantheons. But so back
to Atlantis, we can already see how this story in
folklore has so much in common with similar tales from
around the world. Advanced civilizations laid low by divine forces
(05:43):
and you know, some of the specifics are common to
other stories. Gods seem to often punish ancient communities via floods.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
And we can see this as a parable of sorts.
You can choose to read it in that way, which
is a warning, right, tell people what not to do
or else lest the be punished.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
A cautionary tale.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, well, yes, parable the first mention of Atlantis. We
do have the earliest known mention of Atlantis. Very interesting.
It comes to us from Plato in his dialogues Timaeus
and Critias. Plato describes Atlantis as not just an island,
but a huge island. Says it's larger than Libya and
(06:29):
Asia Minor put together. He also says that he is
relaying this story third or even fourth hand, which we'll
we'll get to because there's a character in his dialogue's
character Critaeus c R.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
T I A S.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
And this guy says, okay, I heard the story of
Atlantis from my grandfather, who heard it from Athenian politician
named Solon. This was three hundred years before Plato was around,
and that this guy, this politician, in turn, learned it
from an Egyptian priest.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
And the Egyptian priest is.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
The one who says it happened nine thousand years ago.
Now Atlantis was protected by the god Poseidon. They worshiped,
and they made the son of Poseidon like a demi god,
kind of like you alluded to earlier. In all they
made his son king of the islands. His name was Atlas,
so he ruled the island and the ocean surrounding it.
(07:26):
And as the Atlanteans came up in the world, as
they became more powerful geopolitically, their ethics declined. The place
was a wash in corruption, in depravity, and perversion. Their
armies met a lot of success. Eventually, according to the story,
they conquered parts of North Africa. They went on to
(07:50):
conquer at least part of Italy, the Etruscan part of Italy.
And then eventually the people of Athens posseed up with
some like minded Atlantis haters, and they drove the folks back.
They drove them out of Italy, they drove them out
of Egypt and North Africa. But at this point there
(08:13):
were still very much in play. They just got their
butts whipped once, and they were still planning to do
more damage.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
And then Plato's writings continue about Atlantis again in that dialogue,
this time to Mais, and he writes that this last
civilization was in fact a location, a place where you
could go. It was real. He calls it the Pillars
of Hercules, the area where this where Atlantis existed, and
(08:43):
these days, like if you looked it up right now, like, hey,
what are the pillars of Hercules, serie, it would be
called the Strait of Gibraltar, which is a known thing.
You can look that up right now.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
You could travel there.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah, you could go right now if you want it.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
And Plato argued that despite being technologically advanced and having
a pretty well organized society, the people of Atlantis didn't
have infrastructure in place to protect them from the wolf
that was at their door constantly, basically the threat of
floods and earthquakes. You know, whether or not they were
(09:21):
actually sent by gods or not, they had absolu. They
were basically out there completely unprotected. And that great island
of Atlantis, along with the city that was built upon it,
did sink over the course of a single night and
day right around ninety six hundred BCE.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Now that would be intense, right right, because again, this
is larger than Libya and Asia minor. This thing is
almost its own continent. How could the entire thing be
gone within forty eight hours? But especially by floods, especially
by floods and earthquakes.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yea, earthquakes makes a little more sense to me.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
That's the question.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
This.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
So it means the sea level just rose so high
that it swallowed up everything.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Well, it depends on the kind of tectonic shift too,
because the sea could have risen or the island.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Could have just said yea, yeah, that makes sense. So
here's the deal. That's the story.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
You could beat the full quotations in these dialogues, but
Plato's tail spoiler alert has a number of vagaries and
plot holes. First, he doesn't stop at saying that the
inhabitants of Atlantis worshiped Poseidon. He says that they were
blood descendants of Poseidon, and this links them more with
(10:41):
myth than it does with any tribal community that would
have been extant at the time, you know what I
mean Atlantis. Also, I like that you pointed out that
they had a good social system here, because they did
have a constitution that was eerily incredibly similar to a
(11:01):
constitution that Plato outlined as a good idea in the Republic,
So it's it does have it has some troubling ties
to fiction already. Even ancient Greeks at the time were
not sure whether, to your point, Matt, whether Plato's story
was meant to be taken as history or as a
(11:23):
metaphor and allegory. You know what I mean. It's kind
of like the braer Rabbit Aesop fables. You know, no one,
no one really thought there was a talking rabbit, right,
some people did. I'm sure, I don't want to ruin
that for any of us listening.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
But in the written history books, right was never written,
Oh one say, talking rabbit did this and his name
was this?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Right? And we have to emphasize this part because there
were strong doubts about the veracity of this tale from
the very beginning. And there were two more issues that
come into play with the timeline that I think raise
serious questions about this story. Just from the jump, before
we get anywhere near the most recent millennium, there were
(12:12):
problems with the story.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
The number one on our list here is that when
Plato talked about Atlantis, this is the first time it
had been mentioned before. The phrase Atlantis, the place, the thing,
just the name itself. Atlantis was the first time it
was ever mentioned when Plato wrote it down.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
So even though he says it happened nine thousand years ago,
no one talked about it. This Egyptian priest who so
willingly told his tale to an Athenian politician apparently never
talked to anybody else about it at all. And it
was just this one conversational thread through millennia.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Why But it's.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Also, like, I mean, it references the intervention of gods
as though that is just of course that's what happened, right, Yeah,
So you got to wonder is he making up some
sort of teachable moment kind of tale, or where's.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
He getting this info from.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
There's another aspect here, The second part that I think
is also I don't want to say damning, but it
doesn't make the tale look good. If this was rediscovered
knowledge and if it was legitimate, how come none of
Plato's contemporaries, none of Aristotle's contemporaries deigned to mention it.
It's a lot like imagine imagine aliens were discovered, extraterrestrials
(13:37):
were discovered, they were real, and you turn on your
local cable news to hear about it, and you find
that only one cable outlet is reporting.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
On it, and it's Fox News. It's only Fox News.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
And it's some intense cataclysmic thing.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Right right, right, it's a global event.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
You know why is only one source telling us those
are pretty and those are pretty important pieces. Those are
things we would think if this were a real place,
we would have heard about a prior to Plato, or
we would have at least heard as contemporaries saying something
about Atlantis.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
I would say, right here, just we're going to explore
a little more as we go. But you know, around
the time that Plato is walking around, there had been
quite a bit of history written down by that point, yes, right, yeah, However,
there would still be at that time countless tales that
(14:36):
had only been passed down through word of mouth, right,
vocal histories that would still that we existed across the
planet at that time that perhaps never did make it,
you know, on papyrus or whatever, whatever instrument and piece
of material you're going to write it down on. I mean,
just we we have to put that out there as
(14:57):
in there's still that room, which is where our show
comes in for speculation, even though these things are going
against it from the.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Jump right right, and these valid concerns did not stop
the party. The legend of Atlantis grew over time, from
the time of Plato to the time that you are
hearing this episode. Numerous later authors would argue that Plato
had part of the story right, but that he was
(15:27):
let's call it incorrect or confused on multiple accounts. And
just like any other game of telephone, people embellished this thing.
They tailored it to fit their own notions. So the
original story was rephrased as it was retold over and
over and over again, and soon the residents of Atlantis
(15:48):
were no longer descended from gods.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
They were actually aliens or hybrids of aliens.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
And these people who believe this would argue that Plato
in his contemporary we're just we're just framing extraterrestrials through
a social lens that they could understand. And then they
would say, well, the city's technology was super advanced. They
had no idea how advanced it was. They used energy crystals,
(16:17):
and they affected global oceanic patterns. They affected the world
in more ways than we know. As a matter of fact,
you read some fringe authors saying you can clearly tell
that all of the quote unquote paranormal disturbances in the
Bermuda triangle are ultimately traceable back to Atlantis and the
(16:40):
infernal technology they created. This is not something you would
read and you know, scientific American Just to be.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Fair, hey, that is a fun thought experiment that the
crystals have gone haywire or continue to function in some
way down at the bottom of the ocean somewhere like
the idea.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Sure, and you know, technology functioning in automation after its
creators have gone is something that could very likely become
real in our modern day. You know, like the Ray
Bradberry story, there will come soft rains, or like the
(17:22):
all the deep space exploratory vehicles that we've put out
that you know are going on one way trips, we're
never going to see them again.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yes, I'm also gonna put here really quickly just for
you guys to think about. We I think we can
collectively see where the ancient alien story kind of meets
up there. As you were talking about the residents turning
from descendants from gods into descendants of aliens or you know,
extraterrestrials that would be interpreted, as you said, as gods.
(17:52):
That is getting us closer closer, I say, to something
that would be within the realm of reality, from from
gods at least from our you know, understanding of the
way the world functions right now, our limited understanding of it.
But we can see, we can see the reasoning behind
(18:14):
some of these things. That's not to say that any
of it is true.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Right again, you know, the people who were alive in
that time, in the time of play is writing. People
who were alive were not dumb. They were not cognitively
that different from people today.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
They were you know, we're we're.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Explainers, we're pattern finders. We we want to understand the
world and we think it's worth understanding. So they were
just as you're saying, Matt, they were. They were just
putting the inexplicable, uh through the lens of what they
thought would explain it. And today you can find multiple
people still doing the same thing. You can find, for instance,
(18:59):
you know, the the big shift that occurred in folklore
fairly recently over the span of time was that stories
of changelings and abductions by the uncaly or the Fay
turned into stories of abductions by extraterrestrials or aliens or
creatures from a different dimension. We're just sort of we're
(19:23):
cooking the same dish with different ingredients, and we're subbing
some stuff out, but the stories stay the same. And
today you can find a lot of people arguing that
Atlantis was not only a real place, but also the
Plato got the location wrong. It's kind of like where Okay,
so let's say it's like George Lucas comes up with
(19:46):
Star Wars and people say, we love your original idea,
but we're gonna change everything about it. But you're right,
there's something called Star Wars. But here's what you got
wrong about it. So it's almost like there's this this
centuries long group of producers saying blade, oh baby, Atlantis,
(20:08):
love it, love everything about it. By you know, when
you think about it, it's more it's it's more like
as it's more like a Bermuda, a Caribbean thing, right, right,
I mean if you really just walk through it, Yeah,
it's it's also you know it's it's or someone else says,
it's more of a South China sea. You know, I've
(20:29):
been looking at that, and that's just the kind of
game that people play. Josh Clark are a longtime friend,
a host of one of our pure podcasts stuff.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
You should know.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
He he wrote about this and he had a good
quote where he says, Atlantis is in the Caribbean, Atlantis
is in the South China Sea, Atlantis is in Switzerland,
and that's really You'll for every one of those locations,
you'll have people arguing that.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah. Also, we've even read that Atlantis was somehow a
part of Antarctica. Yes, I've read that. Yeah, Yeah, they
don't really stop. But the big question is, right with
all of this, that we know, all these stories that
have been told and how they've evolved, where are we
left right now as we enter twenty twenty when it
(21:15):
comes to Atlantis.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
Yeah, I mean that really begs the question. Okay, if
this is a thing, then where's the proof? You know
what elevates said just from the realm of fantasy and
a parable kind of situation to hard facts, you know,
where is the proof of this lost civilization that fits
the description of Atlantis?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, and has anyone actually found something?
Speaker 3 (21:42):
We'll tell you when we come back from a quick break.
Here's where it gets crazy. Well yes, actually, oh oh yes, accord.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
According to the people, Yes, multi people believe that they
at least know where the mythic civilization of Atlantis was located,
and some people believe that they have found it, and
they've been searching for this for a long time now.
Remember we're talking about two different kinds of Atlantis. One
(22:21):
kind of Atlantis is the og one the Plato described
semi utopian society downfall, punished by the gods. A god's
a real b atlantis, you know, was by Gibaltar, the
pillars or Hercules. And then the second Atlantis is the
one that has all the bells and whistles of folklore
(22:43):
and all of the personal attitudes of people writing about it. Later,
in the first centuries of the Christian era, people didn't
really talk too much about Atlantis. They said, you know what,
Aristotle wrote it, He was quoted in Plato. Those guys
are stand up dudes. They taught us a lot, so
we don't need to worry about it. In the sixteen
(23:05):
hundreds and sixteen twenty seven, there was, of course, Francis Bacon,
the English philosopher and scientists who published a utopian novel
titled The New Atlantis, and just like Plato, he was
mainly I don't know, he was taking the story of
Atlantis in a different direction. He wasn't saying it was
necessarily true. He was more interested in exploring the ideas
(23:29):
of a politically and scientifically advanced society on a previously
unidentified island that did amazing thing, that did amazing things.
In sixteen seventy nine there was a Swedish scientist named
Olas Rudbeck who published a book called Atland, at La
and d and this this is a work in four volumes,
(23:51):
and over the course of this this is interesting. I
haven't read all four volumes, but here's what happens. Essentially
throughout this four volume work, rude Beek is trying assiduously
to prove that the thing Plato called Atlantis was located
(24:13):
in Sweden, which is, by the way, where he's from,
and that all human languages are descended from Swedish, which is,
by the way, what he speaks.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Yeah, yeah, I mean this is interesting though, because this
is the first time where Atlantis is depicted as being
at the center of humanity, right like the origin point,
or at least one of the bottlenecks where through the
origins of humanity went through which they traveled, of connecting
(24:45):
everything that's occurred on this earth, all languages, all peoples,
it all centered around Atlantis at one time before they
spread across the earth.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
And it sounds it sounds weird now, but you're right,
that's a huge pivot point. It's easy to dismiss it
knowing what know about the evolution of language today, right,
that Swedish was not the basis for things like Mandarin, Bantu,
you know, or other other languages that had existed before then.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Well, it also goes against the known migratory patterns of
humanity and you know, our descendants across time. There's still
a lot of questions there, of course, Yeah, but it
goes against a lot of that.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
It also would have even back in the sixteen hundred.
It's been a more compelling argument if the guy making
it was not himself Swedish. You know, there's its smacks
of nationalism, and at the time people in Sweden, other
Swedes thought that makes sense, yeah, sweet, yeah Swede. And
(25:51):
even then people out even then there were people who
did not believe Rubik's association and they were pretty much
everybody who wasn't Swedishi said, this doesn't make sense, and
we have other examples. There are so many that we
can't that we're trying. We've got to sort of emphasize
the ones that show us pivot points. So in the
(26:14):
eighteen hundreds and there was a US congressman, former US
congressman with a great name, Ignacious L. Donnelly, and he
published a book called Atlantis, The Antidiluvian World. And this
this became a watershed moment for not the best choice
of words, for what is sometimes called the occultization of Atlantis,
(26:38):
which is taking member again, and we're talking about two
different conceptual places. This one was putting the emphasis on
suppressed technology, on this idea of a proto civilization upon
which the majority of not all, of modern civilizations are based.
So he says that Atlantis was more it did. Yes,
(27:05):
it did have its capital, its seat on an island,
but it was really an empire of sorts, and that
immigrants from Atlantis had gone to ancient Europe, to Africa,
to the American continents, and that their heroes would ultimately
(27:26):
become the inspiration for gods and adventurers in other mythologies Scandinavian, Hindu,
and Greek. So it's similar to Rudbik's claim, but this
was the more popular version, was a more sophisticated argument
because now he's saying, not only does language spring from
(27:48):
this place, but everything you see that feels like a
common thread throughout global mythology is because it all comes
from the same place. We're recognized pattern, we're categorizing. And
it's one of the most popular survivor arguments that the
floods and the earthquakes consumed everything in a night and
(28:10):
a day, and some people survived, or maybe they were
just happened to be out of town, off the island,
and they brought their knowledge to other ancient people. So
that's why you'll see you'll see arguments that say, well,
look at these unexplained carvings on the you know, toward
(28:32):
the eastern side of South America or Central America, and
you'll see people arguing that, well, the Olmecs were actually Atlantean,
or those myths in some areas of the world about
mysterious pale people who show up and tell you how
to do things, those are stories about people from Atlantis.
(28:54):
There's not a lot to back this up, but it's
a very it was for its time. It's a blockbuster.
It's something that people love because it ties into the
concurrent rise of an interest in spirituality and science united
that we can, despite the fact that we were bad
(29:15):
at it earlier, our species can in fact understand the
world around us. And so people who were followers of
theosophy and people later who would become what we would
later call new Agers or people who have New Age beliefs,
loved this and they were saying, well, you know, maybe
this means that esp clairvoyance, all these other things that
(29:38):
are dismissed by the scientific the scientific institutions.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Of these days.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Maybe they were just ancient technology and Atlantis had a
handle on it and it's being suppressed. And this is
where we enter the story of a guy named Edgar
Casey who did something really interesting. Have we ever talked
about Edgar Casey on this show?
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Pretty sure we have?
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's mostly an I mentioned when
we are getting into some of these realms that's right
of Lost History Year something like that. He comes up.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah, So he was a he was born in eighteen
seventy seven. He was a clairvoyant and he would go
into trances. He was known as the Sleeping Prophet, and
in his trances he would answer questions that people ask
him about everything from nutrition to chronic illness, reincarnation, future wars,
(30:35):
future events of global import and he talked about Atlantis
as well. His story is a little bit different from
Rude Bek's, a little bit different from Bacon's and so on,
because he and different from my boy Ignatius because he
had a specific prediction that appeared, depending on where you stand,
(30:58):
appeared to come true.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
And just a quick mentioned we did talk about Edgar
Casey in an episode called Prophecy, Predictions and pre Science.
Oh yeah, okay, I think it was back in the
YouTube days as well, so there should be a video
version of okay in addition to the audio.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Oh yes, Ben, he got very specific about a place where,
at least some part of the thing that we call Atlantis,
the city would rise up from the ocean depths at
some point, and he pinpointed, he said he would rise
off off the coast of Beamini that's right at the
(31:33):
western end of the Bahamas. And he was like, that
is definitely going to happen, you guys, I'm Edgar Casey.
That's my word, and I'm sticking to it.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
That's how he talked.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yeah, Atlantis is gonna hang out over there off Beamini.
And guess what happened in nineteen sixty eight, nol.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
I don't have to guess.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Okay, it's right here.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
A diver actually discovered an underwater rock formation. Yes, that's
now known as the Bamini Road. Oh, it's fascinating or
not it was man made, whether it was natural, it's
just not known right now.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Well, it appears to be natural. Just got to put
that out there. It appears to be natural, but I
don't believe it.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
I don't know man because it looks sure, it could
all be just a pattern that we are inventing that
we attempt to see. But if you pull up photographs
of it, it looks it looks like these are gigantic
stones laid out in a pattern, right, like a cobblestone
(32:35):
road for giants.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
You know.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Again, experts have poo pooed the idea that it was
man made. It's also sometimes called the Beamini wall, and
they look like they're limestone blocks laid out in order
in a pattern. It's not hard to find. You can
see a ton of photographs of it. However, there are
(33:02):
people who feel that there's a geological, non human argument
for its creation, and then there are people who feel
like it has been created by some ancient civilization.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Wouldn't that be relatively easy to test for, like in
terms of the composition or the consistency of the material.
I'm no underwater geologist or anything, which you would think that,
you know, taking a sample, you could date it at
the very least, and then kind of figure out what
kind of material it's made of, and based on that,
figure out if it was cobbled together from different stuff,
(33:37):
or if it's consistent or whatever.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Well, I think this calls for a Bemini trip. Guys, yes, Bahamas,
sure you don't. Of course we need to go.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Can I bring my snorkel and a face mask or
have to.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
We're going to get a snorkel, We're going to get
face mask, oxygen tanks. We're going to send Paul down there.
We're going to start an Applebee's on the ocean.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Under the ocean, well, it's.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Gonna be right above like floating.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
This is floating. Yeah, but the events based under the water, you.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Can snorkel the Bemani Road to get.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
There, There we go, there we go. Yeah, gotta have
T shirts.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
And then also flippers. What's the what's the fancy word
for those you know what I'm talking about?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Flippers?
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Are you just calling flippers?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
I think so fins?
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Maybe fins, fliers, foot fins.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Here's guys, here's the best part about the Applebee's that's
gonna float above the Beamini Road.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Is it that they play Atlantis the Lost Empire four
to seven.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
I mean, that will certainly be a feature. The best
part is that when you go there, you're gonna have
your four basic food groups. Okay, okay, beans, yeah, bacon, whiskey. Right, oh,
and there's a fourth one, lard.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Why did you just hold up three fingers?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
I just in my head, I was like, there are
four things within my hand. Betrayed me?
Speaker 6 (35:00):
Really did?
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Hang on, I'm gonna make eye contact with with Michigan
Control sufficient.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
Okay, we got we got it. Okay, we got a
weird nod though. I think we can lean into this
a little a.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Little further, but yeah, yeah, it's it's weird because Bemini Road.
What's fascinating about this is that it's when people are
arguing it's man made. It's often presented as a relatively
unique thing, but it's it's one of several types of
formations found throughout the world. There's a tessellated pavement in Tasmania.
(35:35):
There's the uh in Oklahoma. There's this jointed bedrock that
has been called a Phoenician fortress in Furnace.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
There's a place called Battlement Mesa in Colorado.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
What was that when you just mentioned before the Battlement what.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
We're Phoenician fortress and furnace Oklahoma.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Also, I've never heard of that.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Well, that's what it's called. And how much of that,
how much of that branding is for how much that
branding is to get tourism. It doesn't matter now because
I think it got paved over in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
So Beamini Road.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Has some cons it's got some pros. Like you said,
no old people are still fighting over it being man
made or natural thing, mainly those b geologists saying that
it's just something that happened. And then it would be
a lot of supporters of Edgar Casey, some of some
(36:36):
of the members of the Association for Research and Enlightenment,
the nonprofit formed to study his work, who argue that
it is man made revidence of a greater civilization. Man
Egar Casey is just so fascinating. When I was I
was younger, I used to be really into it. But
the thing, though, is regardless of which way you look
(36:59):
at it, he did say that there was something.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
There in Bemini.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Well, he said it was going to rise up.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Okay, so he wasn't completely right.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
But maybe he just meant it would rise up in
our consciousness because we would be made aware of it.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Oh, here we go, all right, I'll play your reindeer games.
So maybe there's some interpretation that we're lacking here. It's true,
it's true. Maybe you know, maybe, like Plato, the arguments
out whether you're speaking allegorically or literally. So this is
great because we're already touching on some controversies right. Two
(37:38):
big big problems was solving the mystery of the Atlantis story. First,
as we said, there's so much added to the original tale.
If you think about it now, Plato himself would not
recognize a lot of the things that are considered canonical
Atlantis folklore in the modern day. He would essentially be
going like, what the hell as an alien? Are you
(38:01):
guys thinking of gods? Yeah, because he might say there's
no such thing as there's no such thing as aliens.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
You know, and one man's alien, there's another man's.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
God, right exactly, And then he would say something around
along the lines of like no, no, if there were aliens,
they've got gods to They're probably the same ones.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Maybe not.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I don't know, seas like space beside and rules all
of it, who knows. Secondly, and this is the most
important part of the story, we know lost civilizations exist.
This world is littered with remnants and ruins of groups, communities, villages,
entire cities, some of which remain unidentified the modern day.
(38:43):
We keep finding evidence of unknown people from ages past,
and it is possible, if not plausible, that one of
these groups may have provided the real world grain of
factual sand upon which this whole pearl of the Atlantis
myth slowly accreted over time. You'll see why accreted is
(39:06):
a terrible pun. In a minute or so after a
word from our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
And we're back and we're going to delve into some
of these Uh, well, well they're not pearls. What do
we call them? We're gonna call them because Atlantis is
the pearl, right, These are the grains that are around
the pearl.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Sure, yeah, okay, if Atlantis is the if Atlantis is
the main dish, okay, if Atlantis is the Applebee's entree, yes,
a lot of civilizations. These are the the apps in
the side, dish apps, apps.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
And the dessert that also comes with it.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
Okay, I gotta tell you, I can't place a signature
Applebee's app in my mind. Like I think of outback,
I think of a blue then onion, I think chili is,
I think Southwestern.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Egg rolls, jalapeno poppers. Maybe that's generic though, Oh you mean.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Like Paul's got him locked in load and I'm just
trying to see if.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
I oh.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
Paul, I know he's not allowing himself to be recorded,
which that still bothers me.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
But I'm not gonna leave that alone.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
Paul says in our ears, from from his mouth to
our ears, to your ears, that every dish at Applebee's
is a signature dish.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Sure, Okay. What I'm thinking, at least in my my
traversings to Applebee's is the chicken fingers with honey mustard
as an appetizer.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Well, you can also get the classic combo. I pulled
up the menu.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Oh, where you build your own sampler.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Essentially, Yeah, brisk at casadea is an appetizer, which is
crazy because that's a meal. The case is a good meal.
But yes, it is true. Let let Paul be our
Plato of Applebee's and you are Aristotle interpreting that, and
then we'll figure out who the Casey is. The Iggercasey
(41:07):
later is that you?
Speaker 2 (41:08):
No, I figured out the perfect Applebee's appetizer, you guys,
because it speaks so loudly to app two Applebee's for
me it breadsticks with Alfredo sauce.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
I saw that sounds disgusting.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
What it's perfect?
Speaker 3 (41:25):
I think we're just not high. That's probably a speak
for yourself.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
But right, so it is true though from time to time,
and this is the crazy tantalizing for some people, irritating
for other people. Thing about the search for Atlantas and
places like this. Every so often archaeologists and historians do
(41:49):
find stuff. They find hard evidence of things, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:54):
Things like a swampy prehistoric city in coastal Spain, suspicious
undersee rock formation in the Bahamas. That's the one all
might be sources for a potential genesis of the Atlantis story.
Of these, the site with the widest acceptance is the
(42:14):
Greek island of Santorini. Santorini Sanerini, ancient Therah, that's what
it was called back in the day, a half submerged
remnant of a volcano known as a caldera, created by
the massive second millennium BC volcanic eruption, which created a
tsunami that could have really, you know, hastened the collapse
(42:39):
of the Minoan civilization.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
On crete, crete, crete, get it a crete. That horrible
joke paid off.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
It went all the way after the from before the
commercial break or metastasized, depending on whether you think that
was chuckleworthy or cancerous.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
Oh all right, well here we are.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
It's like a good spin artichoke.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
Man, there there is.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
I mean, you're absolutely right, You're absolutely right, because people
do continue to find things. There's another real life place
that has a lot in common with the Atlantis myth
and geographically could be something that people in Plato's time
would have been aware of, and that is a coastal
city called Helike or Helique, which is located on the
(43:27):
Gulf of Corinth in Greece. So it was and it's
heyday the center of the Acaan League, and the Acaan
League was a confederacy of sorts of twelve different cities.
By the time Plato was coming up in the Game
of Philosophy, this city was already hundreds of years old.
(43:50):
Like Atlantis, it was wealthy, like Atlantis, it controlled the
seas around it, and like Atlantis, it had established colonies
and other nearby areas. Like Italy, the residents, like those
of mythic Atlantis, also worshiped Poseidon. For five days December three,
(44:14):
seventy three BCE, witnesses in the area of this city
noticed that vermin and other small animals snakes and sex
mice and so on, were leaving the coast and they
were going to the mountains that formed the southern border
of the Hilike Delta.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
And we all know what adult is.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Modern seismologists have also noted that some animals do appear
to have a preternatural sense, a little bit of predictive
ability when it comes to imminent earthquakes.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Some of that low level, low rumble no it's not rumble,
but the movement that it is occurring vibrations. Yeah, that
are so of such a low frequency, but it just
can be sensed.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
And oddly enough, you know, we did look in this
into this a little bit in earlier episodes, but oddly enough,
we see tremendous anecdotal evidence that some animals can predict
the weather. Matt, you had the most or predict those disasters, Matt,
you had the most salient argument there with the idea
(45:29):
that they're very attuned to vibrations that maybe people ignore, right,
or maybe they can also sense barometric changes.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Barometric is where I'm interested. Yeah, I want to study that.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
I've always wanted to. I've always wanted to get some
more some more research on people who can predict the
weather due to an injury flaring up. Yeah, there's also
probably a pressure change joints. Yeah, yeah, I always thought
that was a super I still do. If someone if
(46:02):
someone who has kind of a messed up leg tells
me that a storm's coming, I believe them.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
I'm going inside, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Yeah, I'm waiting outside for the first bolt to hopefully
strike true.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
That's very regular of you, trust. But verify. I gotcha.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
I was just talking about hoping to get struck by lightning.
But yeah, I'll just keep going.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Oh man, I just want to know. I just want
to see if you'll get powers. Yeah, I mean, I
think surviving a lightning strike is a superpower as well.
You know, multi their people have been struck by lightning
multiple times.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
I told you guys before about Coach Trit from from
my middle school, Travis Chidwell Well middle school science teacher.
Coach Trit struck by lightning at least twice.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Wait a minute, really, yeah, at least twice.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
I know. I remember one of them was playing cards
in his uh in his dining room, lightning bolt came
right down through the chandelier and got.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
Him because gambling is a sin.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
And maybe that was it.
Speaker 3 (47:05):
Coach Tritt was the second time he was asking.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
That was the second time, I think the first time
was out on the field for something.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
And was he being a plato about this? Was he
relaying a story without first hand proof?
Speaker 2 (47:17):
No, this is him, Coach trip struck by light And
he was like, I got hit twice and I'm still here.
Speaker 3 (47:23):
Did you believe them?
Speaker 2 (47:24):
I did well? I I mean I was a middle
school er.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
Do you have any like powder esque powers?
Speaker 2 (47:30):
You know, I didn't notice any, but he certainly was
no good at science.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
No, I am, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
I thought the story Powder is interesting, but due to
us some intense problems I have with the director, I
can't recommend the film.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
Oh yeah, that guy got big time camp.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
Wait wait, who should be? Who directed it?
Speaker 4 (47:49):
I forget his name, but he was found to have
been participating in a lot of molestation.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
I believe Victor Salva also the creative mind behind.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
Jeepers Creepers, oh Man.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
Yep, and as the convicted known child abuser, but studios
kept working with he kept uh yeah, he actually kept
going after being convicted in nineteen eighty eight for the
abuse of children.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
And then made Powder and then I watched it and
I loved it, and I watched it again and again.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
And then made Jeepers Creepers, which, to be fair, I mean,
to be fair, it's pretty.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
Solid little horror horror flic.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Yeah, it's a It's set a record for the largest
Labor day box office opening ever.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
Wow. So so anyway, where's that flood when you need it?
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (48:42):
There we go, There we go. Where's Poseidon in all
of this? And when he needs to flood the studio? Well,
let's go back to Let's go back to this area, because,
so we said three seventy three BCE, the small animals
are starting to leave the coast. And we have to
also remember that again, people of this age were just
(49:03):
as smart as people are today, and just as many problems,
just as many good points to themselves as a community
and as individuals. But they were also much more in
tune with the natural world around them, you know what
I mean, So they would have recognized that animals were leaving.
(49:23):
In the middle of the night. On that fifth day,
a huge earthquake struck the area. And then what happens
when there are earthquakes around the ocean, a tsunami came
from the Gulf of Corinth. In just a matter of minutes.
According to the accounts, the city of Helika was overcome
by the sea and it sank, just the way that
(49:44):
Plato described Atlantis. It happened very quickly.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
Do you see what I mean, nool, He explains everything,
it seems to.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
So why let's look, let's look a little bit at
the you know, the geography, and then let's also, I
don't know, I think we let's call this part of
the argument multiple Atlantis is atlantasies.
Speaker 4 (50:08):
So you've got the Gulf of Corinth that has several
factors that make it particularly prone to these types of disasters.
It is a hotbed of tectonic plate activity. Humans were
big fans of living there, and the three rivers that
formed the delta also bring lots of silt deposits.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
To cover things up. Right, once something goes down gets
covered over pretty easily, that's right.
Speaker 4 (50:32):
And the research you discovered ancient helike after twelve years
of digging also found that this ravage of nature happened
more than one time. The attractiveness of the area and
its attendant destructiveness formed a cycle where humans established a
city and then nature said no, thank you, removed it.
(50:55):
And then after enough time had passed, people forgot what
the problem was, what went so terribly wrong, and they
built another city on top of the old one.
Speaker 3 (51:04):
Yep. And they may not have even known the old
one was there. They may have just said, this.
Speaker 1 (51:09):
Soil is great, Look how well everything grows. It's so abundant.
Speaker 3 (51:15):
Why has no one built a city here? Because I
have an idea.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
My gosh, I'm also gonna postulate that maybe they did. Remember,
they just went, We're gonna build it better.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
This time, Yes, this time will instead of huts of straw,
will build huts of wood, and then huts of brick,
and we'll see if this big bad wolf is real.
Speaker 4 (51:39):
And like Coach Tritt before his second lightning, you know,
they're like, well, you know, lightning doesn't.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
Strike twice exactly until it does. That's a different god,
that's Zeus. And they're like, we're Poseidon folk. So archaeologists,
like like we had mentioned before who discovered Elite. As
they continued their investigation, they found evidence of more lost
cities in the ground. Underneath that delta silt, they found
(52:11):
cities from the Byzantine period that ended in the fifteenth
century CE or AD. And then under that literally under that,
they found a ruined Roman city from between the second
and fourth centuries. And then under that that's where they
found Alice, which was destroyed as we said in three
seven three BCE. But what they weren't expecting.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
Here is where it gets crazy. I just want to
set that up. Continue please.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Oh yeah, they found an earlier ruined city from the
Bronze Age. Now we're getting to the age where we
have to kind of approximate things. They said, this one
was from around twenty six hundred to twenty three hundred BCE.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
And then yes, they found evidence of human civilization or
some kind of habitation that went even further back than that.
We're talking Neolithic period. And you know, if you're estimating,
which again, as Ben said, you have to, it would
go back to twelve thousand years ago. How crazy is that?
(53:15):
We you know, we set up the scenario kind of
jokingly that that people would build a city here, then
it would collapse, we would forget as humans, so then
build again. But that is precisely what has has been
happening there for thousands of years.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
All in all, there are six distinct that like, six
distinct communities have all been discovered at this same spot.
Speaker 3 (53:42):
And they all rose, and they all fell, and they
all got buried by the rivers.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
And this is the kind of stuff that makes a legend, right,
And this is where we this is where we leave
the episode today. Is it possible that Atlantis is a
mixture of the mistranslations? I mean quite probably, And the
story's not over the search for the city continues. There's
(54:08):
a guy who thinks he's found the lost city in
Spain a few years back, about sixty miles in inland
away from the coast. And then, of course, most recently
in twenty eighteen, a tech company called Merlin Burrows when
public and said they may have found the lost city
(54:30):
of Atlantis, and they think it's off the coast of
Spain near the Donana National Park. They argue that they've
found the remains of temples and towers, that they date
the material between ten and twelve thousand years old, and
they have some computer representations you can see about this.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
It looks interesting, almost looks Indonesian to me something, at
least the rever presentations that they've placed online.
Speaker 1 (55:02):
Right right, And they call themselves a land and seat
Merlin Boroughs that has calls itself a land and sea
search company specializing in finding forgotten or hidden things. But
if you read their press releases, they're also quick to
point out they have a documentary on the horizon called Atlantica,
which will put all the questions to rest.
Speaker 2 (55:25):
Yay, yeah, maybe maybe maybe they've actually figured it out.
Speaker 1 (55:30):
Maybe they have, maybe they have time will tell so
Brian Dunning, who created the Skeptoid podcast, describes Atlantis. He says,
the myth of Atlantis is in the simplest terms and
Elvis sighting, and so he's looking at it more of
a pop culture thing. And he says, you know, he
(55:53):
talks about how people kept trying to keep Elvis alive.
And he says similarly, over the course of the two thousand,
in almost five hundred years since Plato wrote about Atlantis,
and countless people have tried to match his fiction to
some actual island or geographical structure. We already know the
efforts from vain because he says Atlantis was never anything
(56:13):
but an allegorical device used briefly by a philosopher who
made stuff like this up all the time. And this
is as established a fact as is the death of
Elvis Presley, because we know that Plato did work with
allegory a lot.
Speaker 2 (56:28):
So this is what I want to put to you guys. Yeah, okay,
and I'm gonna have to organize it in my head
quickly here before I go and three two, Okay, we're there.
Do you guys think that it is possible at all
that there was some kind of advanced civilization that existed
(56:48):
at one point on the Earth, even if it was
just very small. Let's just say, if we're gonna thought experiment,
a base or a landing zone come paired to or
similar to the way we visited the Moon the first
time during the Apollo missions, where we landed, we're just
(57:08):
in one area. It just kind of But in this
case it's extraterrestrials of some form. They're highly advanced. They
land on Earth just for a little bit to do
some exploration. Do you think there's a site or there's
a possibility that there is a site somewhere on this
Earth where that occurred.
Speaker 3 (57:25):
Well, that's the tricky thing.
Speaker 2 (57:26):
There's a lot you have to unpack an order to
get there.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
I would want clarification on what we mean by advance.
I would say as far as an extra terrestrial site,
it's tough because Earth is a living thing, and it's
a voracious living thing.
Speaker 3 (57:44):
It eats evidence, you know.
Speaker 1 (57:48):
One of the first arguments against that would be that
we don't see evidence of that in the fossil record
or historical record. One of the arguments for it would
be people saying we do. We just don't recognize what
we've found, right, like. So, to answer the question in
short form, I believe it is absolutely possible, depending on
(58:09):
how we want to define advance to believe it is
absolutely possible that earlier undiscovered civilizations were round. I think
it's absolutely possible that humanity in terms of socio political
entity or civilization has earlier iterations that we just haven't
found because it's hard to find things and it's very
(58:33):
easy to.
Speaker 3 (58:33):
Lose them, you know.
Speaker 1 (58:35):
But as far as extraterrestrials, I don't know if I'm
willing to go that far. I just think it's I
think it's an It takes a tremendous amount of hubrist
for us to say we know for sure every lost civilization.
Speaker 4 (58:47):
But I mean Rome was an advanced civilization, you know,
compared comparatively for the time, you know, and we found
all of that. I mean, I figure, for let's a
big enough footprint to have made an impact, we would
find something.
Speaker 3 (59:01):
Right footprint versus time, right, right.
Speaker 2 (59:03):
Okay, I've got one more, one more thing to ask
you guys. What if Atlantis was rather than an extraterrestrial civilization,
it was like a sub terrestrial subterranean uh Like, Okay,
let's just say some other intelligent force that emerged from
(59:25):
the sea that came up and existed in some kind
of way in a vehicle for a long period of time,
or were they base and then it eventually just went
back down into the ocean.
Speaker 3 (59:35):
Like Eldritch forces of some sort, maybe Eldridge.
Speaker 2 (59:38):
Maybe you know something, some intelligence that had been on
this planet far before you know, the evolution of our species.
Speaker 4 (59:46):
Hmm, I don't know, Matt. It's an interesting question. It's
an interesting thought experiment.
Speaker 2 (59:52):
That's what I'm trying to do with you, guys.
Speaker 1 (59:54):
We don't know a whole lot about the subterranean depths. Really.
A few years back, god, several years back now, there
was an expedition that we applied to that said they
were going to go to Antarctica to try to discover
the entrance to this huge cavern system that they believed existed.
(01:00:16):
People who will argue for the quote unquote kind of
hollow earth theory will typically more science based arguments will
say not that the entirety of the Earth is hollow,
but that there are vast caverns and systems that could
house thriving ecosystems. Right, so I could see that, I
(01:00:39):
would say also to illustrate how little we know about
the world before us. Remember when we did the episode
on the early mixtapes of Man right, Theofluens, Yeah and
Denisovan's and Neanderthal. This year there was a new species
(01:01:02):
of ancient human discovered no way, Yeah, Yes, waited in
the Philippines. Homo luzoninsis okay.
Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
And it is.
Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
It's a small body hominin, similar to the Homo florensis
and lived at least fifty thousand and sixty seven thousand
years ago. Also turns out Homo erectus persisted in Java
as recently as one hundred thousand years ago, tangentially related.
The main reasons I bring it up here because A
(01:01:35):
it's really fascinating, and B I think it is a
fantastic illustration of how little we know about again, the
civilizations that preceded our own, or the people in the
world's you know, incredible.
Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
Incredibly weird.
Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
You have to wonder how long it's going to take
our civilization to disappear.
Speaker 6 (01:02:01):
I don't know what, well, from now, five years, thirty years,
give me a break, I mean, I'll you know, one
thing we can say for sure is that on the
timeline of history, of all history of the universe.
Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
We are but a spec and may not be quite
as important as we think.
Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
So let's hold on to all.
Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
We got it, guys, and that's our classic episode for
this evening.
Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
We can't wait to hear your thoughts. That's right, let
us know what you think.
Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
You can reach.
Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
You to the handle Conspiracy Stuff where we exist.
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Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production
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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Oh, fellow conspiracy realist, this classic episode is a such
a treat for us and hopefully a treat for you
as well. We mentioned Edgar Casey in a recent recording
about the prophecy of the Popes and the idea of
prophecy in general, and Edgar Casey super into Atlantis.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Yeah, and super into the idea that there was some
advanced civilization before what we know as civilization. Great, something
must have existed because of all of these weird little
pieces of evidence we find throughout.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
The world technologically superior to modern existence.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
And it's one of those stories that I think has
captured the imaginations of so many people because there just
seems to be this idea of what came before us.
And you know, I think there's a good reason that
the whole idea of this underwater advanced civilization with technology
that we couldn't possibly wrap our heads around has endured
(00:58):
so much because I know there is something about lost
civilizations that just causes the mind to kind of become
pretty intrigued, at least for me personally, I don't know
about you guys.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, So we're going to get into is Atlantis even
the original lost civilization.
Speaker 5 (01:16):
Gain from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History
is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now
or learn this stuff they don't want you to know.
A production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is No.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
They call me Ben.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
We are joined as always with our super producer Paul,
Mission controlled decand most importantly, you are here and that
makes this stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
It occurs to me that although this.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Soda is coming out in twenty twenty January, most likely
this is the last episode we are going to record
for the year. We're recording this at the very end
of twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Woo, Yes, the Lost Decade?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
What? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
The teams.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
It's interesting because we're also covering something today that many
of our fellow listeners have asked us to cover for
years and years and years. We have touched upon this,
we have mentioned it, but as you all know, longtime listeners,
when we first set out creating this show, we generally
(02:41):
wanted to go for more obscure things, things that were
on the edges of the map, things that mainstream people
probably would not have encountered.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Before things that used to be on the map.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Right, so we skipped over initially things like the jfk
assassination in area fifty one, you know, the moon landing,
all those History Channel hits. Today we are finally, we
are finally investigating something that has been a long time
coming or a long time going. If you go, if
(03:15):
you believe the story, and that is the tale of Atlantis,
not Atlanta Atlantis. So here are the facts, according to
the folklore, the stories that we all know. Atlantis was
a civilization located on a mysterious island and in ancient
(03:37):
times we do very much mean ancient. This civilization was
a seat of great culture and learning. Like later seats
of learning such as Alexandria. People came to Atlantis from
far and why to learn the secrets of technology, to
divine the workings of the world and the gods, the heavens,
(04:00):
and the firmament. We know that it was a city
laid out on this island in sort of concentric rings,
and it had a central canal going through to the center.
But Atlantis had some issues. Despite the fact that it
was so advanced in architecture, art and technology. It was
(04:21):
destroyed nine thousand years ago, six hundred years ago when
a wave and earthquake sent by Poseidon, the god of
waves and the sea and earthquakes. When Poseidon got tired
of them, he sent these natural disasters or divine disasters,
(04:42):
to punish the inhabitants for their wicked ways.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Wait a minute, there, weren't the gods pretty Bacchanalian themselves.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
The interesting choice of words there. Yeah, Any study of
Greco Roman gods, even the Old Testament god of Judaism, Islam,
and Christianity, shows a pretty clear study in hypocrisy. You
know what I mean, do as I say, not as
I do.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
I think didn't Zeus come down to Earth in the
form of like a bull.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
A ram, a goose, goose?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah? So he could.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
With hisomever, right, Yeah? And I think he stayed in
goose form when he did that, or.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
The way the story goes, yeah, weird and the you know,
that's very common in tales of pantheons. But so back
to Atlantis, we can already see how this story in
folklore has so much in common with similar tales from
around the world. Advanced civilizations laid low by divine forces
(05:43):
and you know, some of the specifics are common to
other stories. Gods seem to often punish ancient communities via floods.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
And we can see this as a parable of sorts.
You can choose to read it in that way, which
is a warning, right, tell people what not to do
or else lest the be punished.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
A cautionary tale.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, well, yes, parable the first mention of Atlantis. We
do have the earliest known mention of Atlantis. Very interesting.
It comes to us from Plato in his dialogues Timaeus
and Critias. Plato describes Atlantis as not just an island,
but a huge island. Says it's larger than Libya and
(06:29):
Asia Minor put together. He also says that he is
relaying this story third or even fourth hand, which we'll
we'll get to because there's a character in his dialogue's
character Critaeus c R.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
T I A S.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
And this guy says, okay, I heard the story of
Atlantis from my grandfather, who heard it from Athenian politician
named Solon. This was three hundred years before Plato was around,
and that this guy, this politician, in turn, learned it
from an Egyptian priest.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
And the Egyptian priest is.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
The one who says it happened nine thousand years ago.
Now Atlantis was protected by the god Poseidon. They worshiped,
and they made the son of Poseidon like a demi god,
kind of like you alluded to earlier. In all they
made his son king of the islands. His name was Atlas,
so he ruled the island and the ocean surrounding it.
(07:26):
And as the Atlanteans came up in the world, as
they became more powerful geopolitically, their ethics declined. The place
was a wash in corruption, in depravity, and perversion. Their
armies met a lot of success. Eventually, according to the story,
they conquered parts of North Africa. They went on to
(07:50):
conquer at least part of Italy, the Etruscan part of Italy.
And then eventually the people of Athens posseed up with
some like minded Atlantis haters, and they drove the folks back.
They drove them out of Italy, they drove them out
of Egypt and North Africa. But at this point there
(08:13):
were still very much in play. They just got their
butts whipped once, and they were still planning to do
more damage.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
And then Plato's writings continue about Atlantis again in that dialogue,
this time to Mais, and he writes that this last
civilization was in fact a location, a place where you
could go. It was real. He calls it the Pillars
of Hercules, the area where this where Atlantis existed, and
(08:43):
these days, like if you looked it up right now, like, hey,
what are the pillars of Hercules, serie, it would be
called the Strait of Gibraltar, which is a known thing.
You can look that up right now.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
You could travel there.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah, you could go right now if you want it.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
And Plato argued that despite being technologically advanced and having
a pretty well organized society, the people of Atlantis didn't
have infrastructure in place to protect them from the wolf
that was at their door constantly, basically the threat of
floods and earthquakes. You know, whether or not they were
(09:21):
actually sent by gods or not, they had absolu. They
were basically out there completely unprotected. And that great island
of Atlantis, along with the city that was built upon it,
did sink over the course of a single night and
day right around ninety six hundred BCE.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Now that would be intense, right right, because again, this
is larger than Libya and Asia minor. This thing is
almost its own continent. How could the entire thing be
gone within forty eight hours? But especially by floods, especially
by floods and earthquakes.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yea, earthquakes makes a little more sense to me.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
That's the question.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
This.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
So it means the sea level just rose so high
that it swallowed up everything.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Well, it depends on the kind of tectonic shift too,
because the sea could have risen or the island.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Could have just said yea, yeah, that makes sense. So
here's the deal. That's the story.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
You could beat the full quotations in these dialogues, but
Plato's tail spoiler alert has a number of vagaries and
plot holes. First, he doesn't stop at saying that the
inhabitants of Atlantis worshiped Poseidon. He says that they were
blood descendants of Poseidon, and this links them more with
(10:41):
myth than it does with any tribal community that would
have been extant at the time, you know what I
mean Atlantis. Also, I like that you pointed out that
they had a good social system here, because they did
have a constitution that was eerily incredibly similar to a
(11:01):
constitution that Plato outlined as a good idea in the Republic,
So it's it does have it has some troubling ties
to fiction already. Even ancient Greeks at the time were
not sure whether, to your point, Matt, whether Plato's story
was meant to be taken as history or as a
(11:23):
metaphor and allegory. You know what I mean. It's kind
of like the braer Rabbit Aesop fables. You know, no one,
no one really thought there was a talking rabbit, right,
some people did. I'm sure, I don't want to ruin
that for any of us listening.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
But in the written history books, right was never written,
Oh one say, talking rabbit did this and his name
was this?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Right? And we have to emphasize this part because there
were strong doubts about the veracity of this tale from
the very beginning. And there were two more issues that
come into play with the timeline that I think raise
serious questions about this story. Just from the jump, before
we get anywhere near the most recent millennium, there were
(12:12):
problems with the story.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
The number one on our list here is that when
Plato talked about Atlantis, this is the first time it
had been mentioned before. The phrase Atlantis, the place, the thing,
just the name itself. Atlantis was the first time it
was ever mentioned when Plato wrote it down.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
So even though he says it happened nine thousand years ago,
no one talked about it. This Egyptian priest who so
willingly told his tale to an Athenian politician apparently never
talked to anybody else about it at all. And it
was just this one conversational thread through millennia.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Why But it's.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Also, like, I mean, it references the intervention of gods
as though that is just of course that's what happened, right, Yeah,
So you got to wonder is he making up some
sort of teachable moment kind of tale, or where's.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
He getting this info from.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
There's another aspect here, The second part that I think
is also I don't want to say damning, but it
doesn't make the tale look good. If this was rediscovered
knowledge and if it was legitimate, how come none of
Plato's contemporaries, none of Aristotle's contemporaries deigned to mention it.
It's a lot like imagine imagine aliens were discovered, extraterrestrials
(13:37):
were discovered, they were real, and you turn on your
local cable news to hear about it, and you find
that only one cable outlet is reporting.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
On it, and it's Fox News. It's only Fox News.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
And it's some intense cataclysmic thing.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Right right, right, it's a global event.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
You know why is only one source telling us those
are pretty and those are pretty important pieces. Those are
things we would think if this were a real place,
we would have heard about a prior to Plato, or
we would have at least heard as contemporaries saying something
about Atlantis.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
I would say, right here, just we're going to explore
a little more as we go. But you know, around
the time that Plato is walking around, there had been
quite a bit of history written down by that point, yes, right, yeah, However,
there would still be at that time countless tales that
(14:36):
had only been passed down through word of mouth, right,
vocal histories that would still that we existed across the
planet at that time that perhaps never did make it,
you know, on papyrus or whatever, whatever instrument and piece
of material you're going to write it down on. I mean,
just we we have to put that out there as
(14:57):
in there's still that room, which is where our show
comes in for speculation, even though these things are going
against it from the.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Jump right right, and these valid concerns did not stop
the party. The legend of Atlantis grew over time, from
the time of Plato to the time that you are
hearing this episode. Numerous later authors would argue that Plato
had part of the story right, but that he was
(15:27):
let's call it incorrect or confused on multiple accounts. And
just like any other game of telephone, people embellished this thing.
They tailored it to fit their own notions. So the
original story was rephrased as it was retold over and
over and over again, and soon the residents of Atlantis
(15:48):
were no longer descended from gods.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
They were actually aliens or hybrids of aliens.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
And these people who believe this would argue that Plato
in his contemporary we're just we're just framing extraterrestrials through
a social lens that they could understand. And then they
would say, well, the city's technology was super advanced. They
had no idea how advanced it was. They used energy crystals,
(16:17):
and they affected global oceanic patterns. They affected the world
in more ways than we know. As a matter of fact,
you read some fringe authors saying you can clearly tell
that all of the quote unquote paranormal disturbances in the
Bermuda triangle are ultimately traceable back to Atlantis and the
(16:40):
infernal technology they created. This is not something you would
read and you know, scientific American Just to be.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Fair, hey, that is a fun thought experiment that the
crystals have gone haywire or continue to function in some
way down at the bottom of the ocean somewhere like
the idea.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Sure, and you know, technology functioning in automation after its
creators have gone is something that could very likely become
real in our modern day. You know, like the Ray
Bradberry story, there will come soft rains, or like the
(17:22):
all the deep space exploratory vehicles that we've put out
that you know are going on one way trips, we're
never going to see them again.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yes, I'm also gonna put here really quickly just for
you guys to think about. We I think we can
collectively see where the ancient alien story kind of meets
up there. As you were talking about the residents turning
from descendants from gods into descendants of aliens or you know,
extraterrestrials that would be interpreted, as you said, as gods.
(17:52):
That is getting us closer closer, I say, to something
that would be within the realm of reality, from from
gods at least from our you know, understanding of the
way the world functions right now, our limited understanding of it.
But we can see, we can see the reasoning behind
(18:14):
some of these things. That's not to say that any
of it is true.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Right again, you know, the people who were alive in
that time, in the time of play is writing. People
who were alive were not dumb. They were not cognitively
that different from people today.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
They were you know, we're we're.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Explainers, we're pattern finders. We we want to understand the
world and we think it's worth understanding. So they were
just as you're saying, Matt, they were. They were just
putting the inexplicable, uh through the lens of what they
thought would explain it. And today you can find multiple
people still doing the same thing. You can find, for instance,
(18:59):
you know, the the big shift that occurred in folklore
fairly recently over the span of time was that stories
of changelings and abductions by the uncaly or the Fay
turned into stories of abductions by extraterrestrials or aliens or
creatures from a different dimension. We're just sort of we're
(19:23):
cooking the same dish with different ingredients, and we're subbing
some stuff out, but the stories stay the same. And
today you can find a lot of people arguing that
Atlantis was not only a real place, but also the
Plato got the location wrong. It's kind of like where Okay,
so let's say it's like George Lucas comes up with
(19:46):
Star Wars and people say, we love your original idea,
but we're gonna change everything about it. But you're right,
there's something called Star Wars. But here's what you got
wrong about it. So it's almost like there's this this
centuries long group of producers saying blade, oh baby, Atlantis,
(20:08):
love it, love everything about it. By you know, when
you think about it, it's more it's it's more like
as it's more like a Bermuda, a Caribbean thing, right, right,
I mean if you really just walk through it, Yeah,
it's it's also you know it's it's or someone else says,
it's more of a South China sea. You know, I've
(20:29):
been looking at that, and that's just the kind of
game that people play. Josh Clark are a longtime friend,
a host of one of our pure podcasts stuff.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
You should know.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
He he wrote about this and he had a good
quote where he says, Atlantis is in the Caribbean, Atlantis
is in the South China Sea, Atlantis is in Switzerland,
and that's really You'll for every one of those locations,
you'll have people arguing that.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah. Also, we've even read that Atlantis was somehow a
part of Antarctica. Yes, I've read that. Yeah, Yeah, they
don't really stop. But the big question is, right with
all of this, that we know, all these stories that
have been told and how they've evolved, where are we
left right now as we enter twenty twenty when it
(21:15):
comes to Atlantis.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
Yeah, I mean that really begs the question. Okay, if
this is a thing, then where's the proof? You know
what elevates said just from the realm of fantasy and
a parable kind of situation to hard facts, you know,
where is the proof of this lost civilization that fits
the description of Atlantis?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, and has anyone actually found something?
Speaker 3 (21:42):
We'll tell you when we come back from a quick break.
Here's where it gets crazy. Well yes, actually, oh oh yes, accord.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
According to the people, Yes, multi people believe that they
at least know where the mythic civilization of Atlantis was located,
and some people believe that they have found it, and
they've been searching for this for a long time now.
Remember we're talking about two different kinds of Atlantis. One
(22:21):
kind of Atlantis is the og one the Plato described
semi utopian society downfall, punished by the gods. A god's
a real b atlantis, you know, was by Gibaltar, the
pillars or Hercules. And then the second Atlantis is the
one that has all the bells and whistles of folklore
(22:43):
and all of the personal attitudes of people writing about it. Later,
in the first centuries of the Christian era, people didn't
really talk too much about Atlantis. They said, you know what,
Aristotle wrote it, He was quoted in Plato. Those guys
are stand up dudes. They taught us a lot, so
we don't need to worry about it. In the sixteen
(23:05):
hundreds and sixteen twenty seven, there was, of course, Francis Bacon,
the English philosopher and scientists who published a utopian novel
titled The New Atlantis, and just like Plato, he was
mainly I don't know, he was taking the story of
Atlantis in a different direction. He wasn't saying it was
necessarily true. He was more interested in exploring the ideas
(23:29):
of a politically and scientifically advanced society on a previously
unidentified island that did amazing thing, that did amazing things.
In sixteen seventy nine there was a Swedish scientist named
Olas Rudbeck who published a book called Atland, at La
and d and this this is a work in four volumes,
(23:51):
and over the course of this this is interesting. I
haven't read all four volumes, but here's what happens. Essentially
throughout this four volume work, rude Beek is trying assiduously
to prove that the thing Plato called Atlantis was located
(24:13):
in Sweden, which is, by the way, where he's from,
and that all human languages are descended from Swedish, which is,
by the way, what he speaks.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Yeah, yeah, I mean this is interesting though, because this
is the first time where Atlantis is depicted as being
at the center of humanity, right like the origin point,
or at least one of the bottlenecks where through the
origins of humanity went through which they traveled, of connecting
(24:45):
everything that's occurred on this earth, all languages, all peoples,
it all centered around Atlantis at one time before they
spread across the earth.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
And it sounds it sounds weird now, but you're right,
that's a huge pivot point. It's easy to dismiss it
knowing what know about the evolution of language today, right,
that Swedish was not the basis for things like Mandarin, Bantu,
you know, or other other languages that had existed before then.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Well, it also goes against the known migratory patterns of
humanity and you know, our descendants across time. There's still
a lot of questions there, of course, Yeah, but it
goes against a lot of that.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
It also would have even back in the sixteen hundred.
It's been a more compelling argument if the guy making
it was not himself Swedish. You know, there's its smacks
of nationalism, and at the time people in Sweden, other
Swedes thought that makes sense, yeah, sweet, yeah Swede. And
(25:51):
even then people out even then there were people who
did not believe Rubik's association and they were pretty much
everybody who wasn't Swedishi said, this doesn't make sense, and
we have other examples. There are so many that we
can't that we're trying. We've got to sort of emphasize
the ones that show us pivot points. So in the
(26:14):
eighteen hundreds and there was a US congressman, former US
congressman with a great name, Ignacious L. Donnelly, and he
published a book called Atlantis, The Antidiluvian World. And this
this became a watershed moment for not the best choice
of words, for what is sometimes called the occultization of Atlantis,
(26:38):
which is taking member again, and we're talking about two
different conceptual places. This one was putting the emphasis on
suppressed technology, on this idea of a proto civilization upon
which the majority of not all, of modern civilizations are based.
So he says that Atlantis was more it did. Yes,
(27:05):
it did have its capital, its seat on an island,
but it was really an empire of sorts, and that
immigrants from Atlantis had gone to ancient Europe, to Africa,
to the American continents, and that their heroes would ultimately
(27:26):
become the inspiration for gods and adventurers in other mythologies Scandinavian, Hindu,
and Greek. So it's similar to Rudbik's claim, but this
was the more popular version, was a more sophisticated argument
because now he's saying, not only does language spring from
(27:48):
this place, but everything you see that feels like a
common thread throughout global mythology is because it all comes
from the same place. We're recognized pattern, we're categorizing. And
it's one of the most popular survivor arguments that the
floods and the earthquakes consumed everything in a night and
(28:10):
a day, and some people survived, or maybe they were
just happened to be out of town, off the island,
and they brought their knowledge to other ancient people. So
that's why you'll see you'll see arguments that say, well,
look at these unexplained carvings on the you know, toward
(28:32):
the eastern side of South America or Central America, and
you'll see people arguing that, well, the Olmecs were actually Atlantean,
or those myths in some areas of the world about
mysterious pale people who show up and tell you how
to do things, those are stories about people from Atlantis.
(28:54):
There's not a lot to back this up, but it's
a very it was for its time. It's a blockbuster.
It's something that people love because it ties into the
concurrent rise of an interest in spirituality and science united
that we can, despite the fact that we were bad
(29:15):
at it earlier, our species can in fact understand the
world around us. And so people who were followers of
theosophy and people later who would become what we would
later call new Agers or people who have New Age beliefs,
loved this and they were saying, well, you know, maybe
this means that esp clairvoyance, all these other things that
(29:38):
are dismissed by the scientific the scientific institutions.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Of these days.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Maybe they were just ancient technology and Atlantis had a
handle on it and it's being suppressed. And this is
where we enter the story of a guy named Edgar
Casey who did something really interesting. Have we ever talked
about Edgar Casey on this show?
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Pretty sure we have?
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's mostly an I mentioned when
we are getting into some of these realms that's right
of Lost History Year something like that. He comes up.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah, So he was a he was born in eighteen
seventy seven. He was a clairvoyant and he would go
into trances. He was known as the Sleeping Prophet, and
in his trances he would answer questions that people ask
him about everything from nutrition to chronic illness, reincarnation, future wars,
(30:35):
future events of global import and he talked about Atlantis
as well. His story is a little bit different from
Rude Bek's, a little bit different from Bacon's and so on,
because he and different from my boy Ignatius because he
had a specific prediction that appeared, depending on where you stand,
(30:58):
appeared to come true.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
And just a quick mentioned we did talk about Edgar
Casey in an episode called Prophecy, Predictions and pre Science.
Oh yeah, okay, I think it was back in the
YouTube days as well, so there should be a video
version of okay in addition to the audio.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Oh yes, Ben, he got very specific about a place where,
at least some part of the thing that we call Atlantis,
the city would rise up from the ocean depths at
some point, and he pinpointed, he said he would rise
off off the coast of Beamini that's right at the
(31:33):
western end of the Bahamas. And he was like, that
is definitely going to happen, you guys, I'm Edgar Casey.
That's my word, and I'm sticking to it.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
That's how he talked.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yeah, Atlantis is gonna hang out over there off Beamini.
And guess what happened in nineteen sixty eight, nol.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
I don't have to guess.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Okay, it's right here.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
A diver actually discovered an underwater rock formation. Yes, that's
now known as the Bamini Road. Oh, it's fascinating or
not it was man made, whether it was natural, it's
just not known right now.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Well, it appears to be natural. Just got to put
that out there. It appears to be natural, but I
don't believe it.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
I don't know man because it looks sure, it could
all be just a pattern that we are inventing that
we attempt to see. But if you pull up photographs
of it, it looks it looks like these are gigantic
stones laid out in a pattern, right, like a cobblestone
(32:35):
road for giants.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
You know.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Again, experts have poo pooed the idea that it was
man made. It's also sometimes called the Beamini wall, and
they look like they're limestone blocks laid out in order
in a pattern. It's not hard to find. You can
see a ton of photographs of it. However, there are
(33:02):
people who feel that there's a geological, non human argument
for its creation, and then there are people who feel
like it has been created by some ancient civilization.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Wouldn't that be relatively easy to test for, like in
terms of the composition or the consistency of the material.
I'm no underwater geologist or anything, which you would think that,
you know, taking a sample, you could date it at
the very least, and then kind of figure out what
kind of material it's made of, and based on that,
figure out if it was cobbled together from different stuff,
(33:37):
or if it's consistent or whatever.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Well, I think this calls for a Bemini trip. Guys, yes, Bahamas,
sure you don't. Of course we need to go.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Can I bring my snorkel and a face mask or
have to.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
We're going to get a snorkel, We're going to get
face mask, oxygen tanks. We're going to send Paul down there.
We're going to start an Applebee's on the ocean.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Under the ocean, well, it's.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Gonna be right above like floating.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
This is floating. Yeah, but the events based under the water, you.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Can snorkel the Bemani Road to get.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
There, There we go, there we go. Yeah, gotta have
T shirts.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
And then also flippers. What's the what's the fancy word
for those you know what I'm talking about?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Flippers?
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Are you just calling flippers?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
I think so fins?
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Maybe fins, fliers, foot fins.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Here's guys, here's the best part about the Applebee's that's
gonna float above the Beamini Road.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Is it that they play Atlantis the Lost Empire four
to seven.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
I mean, that will certainly be a feature. The best
part is that when you go there, you're gonna have
your four basic food groups. Okay, okay, beans, yeah, bacon, whiskey. Right, oh,
and there's a fourth one, lard.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Why did you just hold up three fingers?
Speaker 2 (34:55):
I just in my head, I was like, there are
four things within my hand. Betrayed me?
Speaker 6 (35:00):
Really did?
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Hang on, I'm gonna make eye contact with with Michigan
Control sufficient.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
Okay, we got we got it. Okay, we got a
weird nod though. I think we can lean into this
a little a.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Little further, but yeah, yeah, it's it's weird because Bemini Road.
What's fascinating about this is that it's when people are
arguing it's man made. It's often presented as a relatively
unique thing, but it's it's one of several types of
formations found throughout the world. There's a tessellated pavement in Tasmania.
(35:35):
There's the uh in Oklahoma. There's this jointed bedrock that
has been called a Phoenician fortress in Furnace.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
There's a place called Battlement Mesa in Colorado.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
What was that when you just mentioned before the Battlement what.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
We're Phoenician fortress and furnace Oklahoma.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Also, I've never heard of that.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Well, that's what it's called. And how much of that,
how much of that branding is for how much that
branding is to get tourism. It doesn't matter now because
I think it got paved over in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
So Beamini Road.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Has some cons it's got some pros. Like you said,
no old people are still fighting over it being man
made or natural thing, mainly those b geologists saying that
it's just something that happened. And then it would be
a lot of supporters of Edgar Casey, some of some
(36:36):
of the members of the Association for Research and Enlightenment,
the nonprofit formed to study his work, who argue that
it is man made revidence of a greater civilization. Man
Egar Casey is just so fascinating. When I was I
was younger, I used to be really into it. But
the thing, though, is regardless of which way you look
(36:59):
at it, he did say that there was something.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
There in Bemini.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Well, he said it was going to rise up.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Okay, so he wasn't completely right.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
But maybe he just meant it would rise up in
our consciousness because we would be made aware of it.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Oh, here we go, all right, I'll play your reindeer games.
So maybe there's some interpretation that we're lacking here. It's true,
it's true. Maybe you know, maybe, like Plato, the arguments
out whether you're speaking allegorically or literally. So this is
great because we're already touching on some controversies right. Two
(37:38):
big big problems was solving the mystery of the Atlantis story. First,
as we said, there's so much added to the original tale.
If you think about it now, Plato himself would not
recognize a lot of the things that are considered canonical
Atlantis folklore in the modern day. He would essentially be
going like, what the hell as an alien? Are you
(38:01):
guys thinking of gods? Yeah, because he might say there's
no such thing as there's no such thing as aliens.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
You know, and one man's alien, there's another man's.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
God, right exactly, And then he would say something around
along the lines of like no, no, if there were aliens,
they've got gods to They're probably the same ones.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Maybe not.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I don't know, seas like space beside and rules all
of it, who knows. Secondly, and this is the most
important part of the story, we know lost civilizations exist.
This world is littered with remnants and ruins of groups, communities, villages,
entire cities, some of which remain unidentified the modern day.
(38:43):
We keep finding evidence of unknown people from ages past,
and it is possible, if not plausible, that one of
these groups may have provided the real world grain of
factual sand upon which this whole pearl of the Atlantis
myth slowly accreted over time. You'll see why accreted is
(39:06):
a terrible pun. In a minute or so after a
word from our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
And we're back and we're going to delve into some
of these Uh, well, well they're not pearls. What do
we call them? We're gonna call them because Atlantis is
the pearl, right, These are the grains that are around
the pearl.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Sure, yeah, okay, if Atlantis is the if Atlantis is
the main dish, okay, if Atlantis is the Applebee's entree, yes,
a lot of civilizations. These are the the apps in
the side, dish apps, apps.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
And the dessert that also comes with it.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
Okay, I gotta tell you, I can't place a signature
Applebee's app in my mind. Like I think of outback,
I think of a blue then onion, I think chili is,
I think Southwestern.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Egg rolls, jalapeno poppers. Maybe that's generic though, Oh you mean.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Like Paul's got him locked in load and I'm just
trying to see if.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
I oh.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
Paul, I know he's not allowing himself to be recorded,
which that still bothers me.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
But I'm not gonna leave that alone.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
Paul says in our ears, from from his mouth to
our ears, to your ears, that every dish at Applebee's
is a signature dish.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Sure, Okay. What I'm thinking, at least in my my
traversings to Applebee's is the chicken fingers with honey mustard
as an appetizer.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Well, you can also get the classic combo. I pulled
up the menu.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Oh, where you build your own sampler.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Essentially, Yeah, brisk at casadea is an appetizer, which is
crazy because that's a meal. The case is a good meal.
But yes, it is true. Let let Paul be our
Plato of Applebee's and you are Aristotle interpreting that, and
then we'll figure out who the Casey is. The Iggercasey
(41:07):
later is that you?
Speaker 2 (41:08):
No, I figured out the perfect Applebee's appetizer, you guys,
because it speaks so loudly to app two Applebee's for
me it breadsticks with Alfredo sauce.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
I saw that sounds disgusting.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
What it's perfect?
Speaker 3 (41:25):
I think we're just not high. That's probably a speak
for yourself.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
But right, so it is true though from time to time,
and this is the crazy tantalizing for some people, irritating
for other people. Thing about the search for Atlantas and
places like this. Every so often archaeologists and historians do
(41:49):
find stuff. They find hard evidence of things, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:54):
Things like a swampy prehistoric city in coastal Spain, suspicious
undersee rock formation in the Bahamas. That's the one all
might be sources for a potential genesis of the Atlantis story.
Of these, the site with the widest acceptance is the
(42:14):
Greek island of Santorini. Santorini Sanerini, ancient Therah, that's what
it was called back in the day, a half submerged
remnant of a volcano known as a caldera, created by
the massive second millennium BC volcanic eruption, which created a
tsunami that could have really, you know, hastened the collapse
(42:39):
of the Minoan civilization.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
On crete, crete, crete, get it a crete. That horrible
joke paid off.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
It went all the way after the from before the
commercial break or metastasized, depending on whether you think that
was chuckleworthy or cancerous.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
Oh all right, well here we are.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
It's like a good spin artichoke.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
Man, there there is.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
I mean, you're absolutely right, You're absolutely right, because people
do continue to find things. There's another real life place
that has a lot in common with the Atlantis myth
and geographically could be something that people in Plato's time
would have been aware of, and that is a coastal
city called Helike or Helique, which is located on the
(43:27):
Gulf of Corinth in Greece. So it was and it's
heyday the center of the Acaan League, and the Acaan
League was a confederacy of sorts of twelve different cities.
By the time Plato was coming up in the Game
of Philosophy, this city was already hundreds of years old.
(43:50):
Like Atlantis, it was wealthy, like Atlantis, it controlled the
seas around it, and like Atlantis, it had established colonies
and other nearby areas. Like Italy, the residents, like those
of mythic Atlantis, also worshiped Poseidon. For five days December three,
(44:14):
seventy three BCE, witnesses in the area of this city
noticed that vermin and other small animals snakes and sex
mice and so on, were leaving the coast and they
were going to the mountains that formed the southern border
of the Hilike Delta.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
And we all know what adult is.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Modern seismologists have also noted that some animals do appear
to have a preternatural sense, a little bit of predictive
ability when it comes to imminent earthquakes.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Some of that low level, low rumble no it's not rumble,
but the movement that it is occurring vibrations. Yeah, that
are so of such a low frequency, but it just
can be sensed.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
And oddly enough, you know, we did look in this
into this a little bit in earlier episodes, but oddly enough,
we see tremendous anecdotal evidence that some animals can predict
the weather. Matt, you had the most or predict those disasters, Matt,
you had the most salient argument there with the idea
(45:29):
that they're very attuned to vibrations that maybe people ignore, right,
or maybe they can also sense barometric changes.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Barometric is where I'm interested. Yeah, I want to study that.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
I've always wanted to. I've always wanted to get some
more some more research on people who can predict the
weather due to an injury flaring up. Yeah, there's also
probably a pressure change joints. Yeah, yeah, I always thought
that was a super I still do. If someone if
(46:02):
someone who has kind of a messed up leg tells
me that a storm's coming, I believe them.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
I'm going inside, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Yeah, I'm waiting outside for the first bolt to hopefully
strike true.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
That's very regular of you, trust. But verify. I gotcha.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
I was just talking about hoping to get struck by lightning.
But yeah, I'll just keep going.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Oh man, I just want to know. I just want
to see if you'll get powers. Yeah, I mean, I
think surviving a lightning strike is a superpower as well.
You know, multi their people have been struck by lightning
multiple times.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
I told you guys before about Coach Trit from from
my middle school, Travis Chidwell Well middle school science teacher.
Coach Trit struck by lightning at least twice.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Wait a minute, really, yeah, at least twice.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
I know. I remember one of them was playing cards
in his uh in his dining room, lightning bolt came
right down through the chandelier and got.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
Him because gambling is a sin.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
And maybe that was it.
Speaker 3 (47:05):
Coach Tritt was the second time he was asking.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
That was the second time, I think the first time
was out on the field for something.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
And was he being a plato about this? Was he
relaying a story without first hand proof?
Speaker 2 (47:17):
No, this is him, Coach trip struck by light And
he was like, I got hit twice and I'm still here.
Speaker 3 (47:23):
Did you believe them?
Speaker 2 (47:24):
I did well? I I mean I was a middle
school er.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
Do you have any like powder esque powers?
Speaker 2 (47:30):
You know, I didn't notice any, but he certainly was
no good at science.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
No, I am, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
I thought the story Powder is interesting, but due to
us some intense problems I have with the director, I
can't recommend the film.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
Oh yeah, that guy got big time camp.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
Wait wait, who should be? Who directed it?
Speaker 4 (47:49):
I forget his name, but he was found to have
been participating in a lot of molestation.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
I believe Victor Salva also the creative mind behind.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
Jeepers Creepers, oh Man.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
Yep, and as the convicted known child abuser, but studios
kept working with he kept uh yeah, he actually kept
going after being convicted in nineteen eighty eight for the
abuse of children.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
And then made Powder and then I watched it and
I loved it, and I watched it again and again.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
And then made Jeepers Creepers, which, to be fair, I mean,
to be fair, it's pretty.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
Solid little horror horror flic.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Yeah, it's a It's set a record for the largest
Labor day box office opening ever.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
Wow. So so anyway, where's that flood when you need it?
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (48:42):
There we go, There we go. Where's Poseidon in all
of this? And when he needs to flood the studio? Well,
let's go back to Let's go back to this area, because,
so we said three seventy three BCE, the small animals
are starting to leave the coast. And we have to
also remember that again, people of this age were just
(49:03):
as smart as people are today, and just as many problems,
just as many good points to themselves as a community
and as individuals. But they were also much more in
tune with the natural world around them, you know what
I mean, So they would have recognized that animals were leaving.
(49:23):
In the middle of the night. On that fifth day,
a huge earthquake struck the area. And then what happens
when there are earthquakes around the ocean, a tsunami came
from the Gulf of Corinth. In just a matter of minutes.
According to the accounts, the city of Helika was overcome
by the sea and it sank, just the way that
(49:44):
Plato described Atlantis. It happened very quickly.
Speaker 2 (49:49):
Do you see what I mean, nool, He explains everything,
it seems to.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
So why let's look, let's look a little bit at
the you know, the geography, and then let's also, I
don't know, I think we let's call this part of
the argument multiple Atlantis is atlantasies.
Speaker 4 (50:08):
So you've got the Gulf of Corinth that has several
factors that make it particularly prone to these types of disasters.
It is a hotbed of tectonic plate activity. Humans were
big fans of living there, and the three rivers that
formed the delta also bring lots of silt deposits.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
To cover things up. Right, once something goes down gets
covered over pretty easily, that's right.
Speaker 4 (50:32):
And the research you discovered ancient helike after twelve years
of digging also found that this ravage of nature happened
more than one time. The attractiveness of the area and
its attendant destructiveness formed a cycle where humans established a
city and then nature said no, thank you, removed it.
(50:55):
And then after enough time had passed, people forgot what
the problem was, what went so terribly wrong, and they
built another city on top of the old one.
Speaker 3 (51:04):
Yep. And they may not have even known the old
one was there. They may have just said, this.
Speaker 1 (51:09):
Soil is great, Look how well everything grows. It's so abundant.
Speaker 3 (51:15):
Why has no one built a city here? Because I
have an idea.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
My gosh, I'm also gonna postulate that maybe they did. Remember,
they just went, We're gonna build it better.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
This time, Yes, this time will instead of huts of straw,
will build huts of wood, and then huts of brick,
and we'll see if this big bad wolf is real.
Speaker 4 (51:39):
And like Coach Tritt before his second lightning, you know,
they're like, well, you know, lightning doesn't.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
Strike twice exactly until it does. That's a different god,
that's Zeus. And they're like, we're Poseidon folk. So archaeologists,
like like we had mentioned before who discovered Elite. As
they continued their investigation, they found evidence of more lost
cities in the ground. Underneath that delta silt, they found
(52:11):
cities from the Byzantine period that ended in the fifteenth
century CE or AD. And then under that literally under that,
they found a ruined Roman city from between the second
and fourth centuries. And then under that that's where they
found Alice, which was destroyed as we said in three
seven three BCE. But what they weren't expecting.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
Here is where it gets crazy. I just want to
set that up. Continue please.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Oh yeah, they found an earlier ruined city from the
Bronze Age. Now we're getting to the age where we
have to kind of approximate things. They said, this one
was from around twenty six hundred to twenty three hundred BCE.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
And then yes, they found evidence of human civilization or
some kind of habitation that went even further back than that.
We're talking Neolithic period. And you know, if you're estimating,
which again, as Ben said, you have to, it would
go back to twelve thousand years ago. How crazy is that?
(53:15):
We you know, we set up the scenario kind of
jokingly that that people would build a city here, then
it would collapse, we would forget as humans, so then
build again. But that is precisely what has has been
happening there for thousands of years.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
All in all, there are six distinct that like, six
distinct communities have all been discovered at this same spot.
Speaker 3 (53:42):
And they all rose, and they all fell, and they
all got buried by the rivers.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
And this is the kind of stuff that makes a legend, right,
And this is where we this is where we leave
the episode today. Is it possible that Atlantis is a
mixture of the mistranslations? I mean quite probably, And the
story's not over the search for the city continues. There's
(54:08):
a guy who thinks he's found the lost city in
Spain a few years back, about sixty miles in inland
away from the coast. And then, of course, most recently
in twenty eighteen, a tech company called Merlin Burrows when
public and said they may have found the lost city
(54:30):
of Atlantis, and they think it's off the coast of
Spain near the Donana National Park. They argue that they've
found the remains of temples and towers, that they date
the material between ten and twelve thousand years old, and
they have some computer representations you can see about this.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
It looks interesting, almost looks Indonesian to me something, at
least the rever presentations that they've placed online.
Speaker 1 (55:02):
Right right, And they call themselves a land and seat
Merlin Boroughs that has calls itself a land and sea
search company specializing in finding forgotten or hidden things. But
if you read their press releases, they're also quick to
point out they have a documentary on the horizon called Atlantica,
which will put all the questions to rest.
Speaker 2 (55:25):
Yay, yeah, maybe maybe maybe they've actually figured it out.
Speaker 1 (55:30):
Maybe they have, maybe they have time will tell so
Brian Dunning, who created the Skeptoid podcast, describes Atlantis. He says,
the myth of Atlantis is in the simplest terms and
Elvis sighting, and so he's looking at it more of
a pop culture thing. And he says, you know, he
(55:53):
talks about how people kept trying to keep Elvis alive.
And he says similarly, over the course of the two thousand,
in almost five hundred years since Plato wrote about Atlantis,
and countless people have tried to match his fiction to
some actual island or geographical structure. We already know the
efforts from vain because he says Atlantis was never anything
(56:13):
but an allegorical device used briefly by a philosopher who
made stuff like this up all the time. And this
is as established a fact as is the death of
Elvis Presley, because we know that Plato did work with
allegory a lot.
Speaker 2 (56:28):
So this is what I want to put to you guys. Yeah, okay,
and I'm gonna have to organize it in my head
quickly here before I go and three two, Okay, we're there.
Do you guys think that it is possible at all
that there was some kind of advanced civilization that existed
(56:48):
at one point on the Earth, even if it was
just very small. Let's just say, if we're gonna thought experiment,
a base or a landing zone come paired to or
similar to the way we visited the Moon the first
time during the Apollo missions, where we landed, we're just
(57:08):
in one area. It just kind of But in this
case it's extraterrestrials of some form. They're highly advanced. They
land on Earth just for a little bit to do
some exploration. Do you think there's a site or there's
a possibility that there is a site somewhere on this
Earth where that occurred.
Speaker 3 (57:25):
Well, that's the tricky thing.
Speaker 2 (57:26):
There's a lot you have to unpack an order to
get there.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
I would want clarification on what we mean by advance.
I would say as far as an extra terrestrial site,
it's tough because Earth is a living thing, and it's
a voracious living thing.
Speaker 3 (57:44):
It eats evidence, you know.
Speaker 1 (57:48):
One of the first arguments against that would be that
we don't see evidence of that in the fossil record
or historical record. One of the arguments for it would
be people saying we do. We just don't recognize what
we've found, right, like. So, to answer the question in
short form, I believe it is absolutely possible, depending on
(58:09):
how we want to define advance to believe it is
absolutely possible that earlier undiscovered civilizations were round. I think
it's absolutely possible that humanity in terms of socio political
entity or civilization has earlier iterations that we just haven't
found because it's hard to find things and it's very
(58:33):
easy to.
Speaker 3 (58:33):
Lose them, you know.
Speaker 1 (58:35):
But as far as extraterrestrials, I don't know if I'm
willing to go that far. I just think it's I
think it's an It takes a tremendous amount of hubrist
for us to say we know for sure every lost civilization.
Speaker 4 (58:47):
But I mean Rome was an advanced civilization, you know,
compared comparatively for the time, you know, and we found
all of that. I mean, I figure, for let's a
big enough footprint to have made an impact, we would
find something.
Speaker 3 (59:01):
Right footprint versus time, right, right.
Speaker 2 (59:03):
Okay, I've got one more, one more thing to ask
you guys. What if Atlantis was rather than an extraterrestrial civilization,
it was like a sub terrestrial subterranean uh Like, Okay,
let's just say some other intelligent force that emerged from
(59:25):
the sea that came up and existed in some kind
of way in a vehicle for a long period of time,
or were they base and then it eventually just went
back down into the ocean.
Speaker 3 (59:35):
Like Eldritch forces of some sort, maybe Eldridge.
Speaker 2 (59:38):
Maybe you know something, some intelligence that had been on
this planet far before you know, the evolution of our species.
Speaker 4 (59:46):
Hmm, I don't know, Matt. It's an interesting question. It's
an interesting thought experiment.
Speaker 2 (59:52):
That's what I'm trying to do with you, guys.
Speaker 1 (59:54):
We don't know a whole lot about the subterranean depths. Really.
A few years back, god, several years back now, there
was an expedition that we applied to that said they
were going to go to Antarctica to try to discover
the entrance to this huge cavern system that they believed existed.
(01:00:16):
People who will argue for the quote unquote kind of
hollow earth theory will typically more science based arguments will
say not that the entirety of the Earth is hollow,
but that there are vast caverns and systems that could
house thriving ecosystems. Right, so I could see that, I
(01:00:39):
would say also to illustrate how little we know about
the world before us. Remember when we did the episode
on the early mixtapes of Man right, Theofluens, Yeah and
Denisovan's and Neanderthal. This year there was a new species
(01:01:02):
of ancient human discovered no way, Yeah, Yes, waited in
the Philippines. Homo luzoninsis okay.
Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
And it is.
Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
It's a small body hominin, similar to the Homo florensis
and lived at least fifty thousand and sixty seven thousand
years ago. Also turns out Homo erectus persisted in Java
as recently as one hundred thousand years ago, tangentially related.
The main reasons I bring it up here because A
(01:01:35):
it's really fascinating, and B I think it is a
fantastic illustration of how little we know about again, the
civilizations that preceded our own, or the people in the
world's you know, incredible.
Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
Incredibly weird.
Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
You have to wonder how long it's going to take
our civilization to disappear.
Speaker 6 (01:02:01):
I don't know what, well, from now, five years, thirty years,
give me a break, I mean, I'll you know, one
thing we can say for sure is that on the
timeline of history, of all history of the universe.
Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
We are but a spec and may not be quite
as important as we think.
Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
So let's hold on to all.
Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
We got it, guys, and that's our classic episode for
this evening.
Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
We can't wait to hear your thoughts. That's right, let
us know what you think.
Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
You can reach.
Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
You to the handle Conspiracy Stuff where we exist.
Speaker 4 (01:02:33):
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Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
Of course, by condance we receive. Be aware, yet not afraid.
Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
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Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
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Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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