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July 3, 2024 63 mins

Imagine a stunning amount of biodiversity amid one of the most densely-populated nations in the modern world. In tonight's episode, Ben, Matt and Noel continue an exploration into what Western science deems "cryptids of India." Spoiler: Ben solves a few mysteries, and gives you the clues to solve a few more as you listen along at home.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is Nolan.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer, all mission controlled decads. Most importantly, you are you.
You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't
want you to know. For everyone who loves cryptids, good
news for everyone who hates cryptids. Oh well, got some
bad news. We're back on the game. Longtime listeners, you

will know we examined cryptids and depth in fact breaking news.
We're returning to the low coast of the Atlantic in
just a few days, partially to look into allegations of
mysterious shenanigans around the coast and swamps. But we remember
our previous episode here right, previously on stuff they don't
want you to do.

Speaker 4 (01:10):
Yeah, it was Crypti of India Part one right, yes, yep, okay, cool.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
And in it we discussed the intense biodiversity that India
experiences and how cool that is and how there really
might be undiscovered stuff out there, and there are a
ton of rumors and myths and purported creatures already.

Speaker 4 (01:29):
There and always reminds me of that was it a
Star Trek film. I believe the Undiscovered Country just the
idea of like a wilderness so vast that there could be,
you know, in the in the colloquial use of the
word country, undiscovered parts of this unseen you know, jungle
for this stuff, these kinds of things to thrive.

Speaker 3 (01:49):
And to that point about biodiversity. We're also going to
bring some science to bear, some very exciting science that
we can't wait to share with you that actually, in
a weird way support some conspiracy realist arguments. We'd also
before we begin, like to take a second and think
truth is fiction? Why T on both Reddit and YouTube?

Because truth is fiction?

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Why T?

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Your amazing cryptid map of India inspired a lot of
our conversations last evening and this evening. Here are the facts.
As as said earlier, India is legit amazing. At the beginning,

you know, I was thinking, I was looking back on
our India episodes. At the beginning of every episode we
have ever done on this region, we have a meditation
on the history of this modern country, the stunning biodiversity,
the profoundly complex and sometimes problematic socio cultural dynamics of
the many civilizations that have existed there over thousands of years.

We're back at it. And I don't know about you guys,
but when we first began looking into this, the idea
of cryptids in India seemed kind of counterintuitive. It's one of,
if not the most populous country on the planet right now,
So how could people there somehow not have discovered every

other type of life form in their borders.

Speaker 4 (03:25):
Yeah, it just goes back to that whole point about
how vast the wilderness is in that in that part
of the world. We talked about our friend Mangesh, whose
grandfather I believe was a high ranking official in the
country's forestry commission or division or department or what have you,
whatever they call it over there, and he pointed out

to us just how insanely forested this part of the
world really truly is. And there's lots of places where
people just don't go well.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
And that's the thing about humans. There could be a
whole bunch of us in designated area, but we tend
to clump up a whole bunch zoey.

Speaker 4 (04:05):

Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah, it likes itself, right, fire Fire makes friends, you.

Speaker 4 (04:10):
Know, line insists upon itself.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
And I think mostly we get bored real easily. So
we want things to do, and generally other people mean
things to do.

Speaker 4 (04:21):
I guess we need company. We get lonely. Really, you know,
it's not We're not designed to be alone for you know,
long periods of time and vast stretches of of of
you know, area to wander alone. It doesn't really suit
our temperaments. Some people love it, but the vast majority,

I would say, not really suited for it.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
It calls to mind the idea of panatology, right, the
study of death and the.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
Infiniti Stones, the sure Infinity Stones.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
Great in thanos is logic was very stupid, but it
was a great series of films. The I want to
shout out our pal Josh Clark in particular for recommending
a book to me several years ago, Denial of Death,
the argument being that all things humans do is primarily
to distract themselves from the reality that they will die.

This has taking a different direction.

Speaker 4 (05:22):
That's a bummer way of looking at just the old pastime.

Speaker 3 (05:25):
You know, we mentioned the book in previous episodes. Yeah,
I'll save you some time. That's the gist of it.
They take a long time to get to it, but
that's the gist.

Speaker 4 (05:35):
I'm sure there's some good minutia in there. But when
you really do think about it, the idea of a
past time passing the time, it really is just kind
of counting down the seconds until the ultimate end of
time for us as individuals.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
And one thing we didn't mention in our previous explorations
of cryptids in general, cryptids and India specifically. Indeed, the
idea of mortality is a crazy fascinating fact. Species are
going extinct at a higher rate than they are being discovered,
which means that experts right now will tell you, in

a best case scenario, human civilization knows only around twenty
percent of the total unique species on planet Earth, which
is a baffling. It's a wackadoo number. It's cartoonish. Only
twenty percent, one fifth of all life the humans know.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah, that's that includes the oceans, right.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
That includes the oceans, which of course skews you know,
skews the metric quite quite a great deal because the
humans do know more about the surface of the moon
than they do know about the ocean.

Speaker 4 (06:45):
Yeah, we can even you know, for the most part,
get to the most remote parts of the jungle. We
might just not want to hang out there, and definitely,
but as far as the ocean is concerned, we know
what happens when people try to venture too deep and yeah,
now what's the opposite of flying too close to the sun.
You know, they kind of implode if we have tell
then too deep? There you go, Yeah, we know. Anyway,

what do we hear that? There was news about another
kind of crackpot billionaire trying to make a sub to
go deep, deep, deep down to the Titanic wreckage.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
Again everybody gets one can Yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:18):
Well, there was a really funny meme where it was like,
this person has the chance to do the funniest thing ever,
which is, you know, implode again. I know, it's a
bummer it. Memes can be a real.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
Dark Well, hopefully it will aid somehow the greater scientific endeavor, right,
the great conceit that the world is worth understanding and
indeed understandable. Scientists when they hear this, this stat of
twenty percent of life being all we know, they take

that personally. Speaking of memes, I heard that. I took
that personally. This is where we go to Walter Jets
and Mario Mora. They're both out of Yale, and they
created this fantastic, like profoundly informative map slash model that
reverse engineers the idea the assumption that humans only know

twenty percent of Earth life, and they said, well, let's
look at the other eighty percent. Let's figure out what
the power of science where those unidentified creatures may live,
and to make things possible. They took out maritime creatures entirely,

and they took out invertebrate entirely. They just said, let's
look at undiscovered terrestrial vertebrates. The end result of their project,
which continues today, is something called the Map of Life,
which sounds hyperbolic, but I'm gonna be honest, I think
they aren't the title.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
It looks cool, and you know they're backing it up,
these guys both from Yale. As you said, notorious members
of the Secret Society Map and Life. That's a joke
of that's not true, but no, it looks incredible. And
if you take a look at India specifically on this map,
it get there's some pretty big regions here. It's not massive,

but it's well, you tell me, what do you guys see?
I see it towards the bottom near Sri Lanka, so like,
I don't know what you call it? The foot of India?

Speaker 4 (09:28):
Sure, the horn? The reverse?

Speaker 3 (09:30):
There you go, the deally bop, Yeah, little toe. I'm
sure Sri Lanka wants to be called as an independent country.
I'm sure Sri Lanka wants to be called the toe
of India. It's interesting the way this thing's coded. It's
when you look at it zoomed out, it's like very pixelated.
It's kind of an interesting choice of design for an infographic,
but it does give you some really you know, granular detail.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
It makes it look like it's loading.

Speaker 4 (09:56):
I think I thought it was for the longest time, guys,
I'm not gonna lie. And then I zoomed. I didn't
realize that the text in the background was perfectly clear,
and that as you zoom in, the blocks just get
bigger and bigger, and it really shows you how massive
this area is that we're talking about in the toe
or the horn of India.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
But can we talk about the discovery potential that it
outlines there? For like specifically it's got a pull down
for amphibia, so amphibians, birds, reptiles, and mammals and if
you click on like mammals that are undiscovered, so discovery
potential to find a new species. What in this large

pink area, it's ranging from zero point one six percent
to zero point one nine percent, so very small percentage
chance of finding a new one, but still it's higher
than in most of the other regions.

Speaker 3 (10:54):
So you're saying there's a chance the estimation there to
break down the percentage, right, there's that really cool color
coded overlay with the drop down menu for mammalia, amphibia,
aves or you know, birds and reptilia. That percentage, to
my understanding, is saying this is the percentage of the

total eighty percent. This is where that is most likely
to be.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Oh yeah, it's as portion of yet to be discovered
species in this class predicted by our models to be
found within this specific cell on the map. Okay, that
makes a lot more sense to me. Sorry, I'm probably
misspoken that previous section. To call in and tell us
how we got it wrong.

Speaker 4 (11:35):
We're all learning this together, I think for the most part,
at least me and you Ben Mass have a better
grasp on it. But I was with you. I was
with you all on the way. Thank you Ben for clarifying.
But it is an oddly designed graphic, But I think
the design inherent in the design. It packs a lot
of punch. It has a lot of like interesting like
I said, granular detail.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
Yeah, d check it out. It's mol dot org. It's
a fun thing to poke around and play with. Right,
because it is a model, you can go through any
part of the globe and look at what their model
predicts for undiscovered terrestrial vertebrate. According to the Map of

Life data, there are thousands of potentially undiscovered unique life
forms in India, most of whom are likely to be
reptiles or amphibians. And because we said vertebrate things with
a spine, let's remember they're not really counting the insects.
They're not really counting the maritime cryptids in the vast

waterways and oceanic territory of India. This is amazing and
we saved it for part two because it is scientific proof, right,
or scientific I would say circumstantial evidence of cryptid existence.

Speaker 4 (12:54):
Well, I think a listener just wrote into us. Maybe
it was on Instagram. I can't remember if it was
to all of us, but asking about the Fermi paradox,
and I'm certain that we've covered that in the past.
We absolutely had to. But it's this idea of the
discrepancy between the lack of one conclusive evidence of extraterrestrials
compared to the overall likelihood of such creatures existing, and

it makes me wonder if there is such a concept
for cryptids, you know, like an earth bound I guess
that's not really extraterrestrials, but they kind of are in
the same ballpark, right.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Yeah, it's a It's a little weird in this case though,
because when we're talking about cryptids, generally there are tales
or sightings or you know, a description or though I
mean there are, yes, But in the models that we're
talking about here we're referencing, we're talking about undiscovered I

don't know, it's hard for me to square these two things,
because you were talking about undiscovered species of let's say, amphibians, right,
So these are amphibians that are likely very similar to
other amphibians we've already categorized and named and all of that,
but they're different enough to be a complete new species right.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
Right, a unique live form. There's also here's the connective tissue.
If if you wrote to us on Instagram. Sorry we
didn't see that on all of us. But the thing
the connective tissue here, and I think the point you're making, Noel,
is that there is a race toward classification against the
ticking time bomb of extinction. Fermi's paradox is closely related

to as we discuss links to previous episodes, the chasms
of space and time, incorporating what's called the dark forest theory,
shout out three body problem and then till I finish
that it's worth it. And then, in my opinion and
then the terrestrial version of that would be that this

planet is currently living through the sixth mass extinction in
its history. So we are we talk about this in
earlier Cryptid episodes. We are more likely now than ever,
thanks Fox News, to find unidentified creatures, and they are
now more than ever likely to go extinct before we

find them. So there is a bit of a paradox,
and I do think there's a thematic relationship there.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
Well, yeah, I appreciate that, Ben, And also just to
double up down on what Matt said, It's something that
hadn't occurred to me because my brain was sort of
reaching for the completely different species that are unrecognizably different
from the ones we know. And Matt's point of the
minute differences of what could be considered a quote unquote

cryptid just because it's something that we don't know about,
but it might not look that impressively weird. But I
think today we're talking about some that would be considered
impressively weird.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
But tales of tales of cryptids. One of our best
examples from the previous episode was the tailed slow lorius. Yeah, Laurus,
the lorus is real. This one is slow like another
slow loris, and it's tail to exist, but it has
to tail, so it became a tall tale of it.

Speaker 4 (16:13):
It's a bit of a wamp as far as the cryptis,
but it's not. But it's a perfect example of we're
talking about.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
We just had we have to keep an open mind
because it doesn't discount though more out there ones either, right,
so we we we just have to go into that
with our eyes open.

Speaker 3 (16:35):
And so we have to ask, you know, armed with
new technologies, scholarship and information, is it possible to begin
parsing those legends and folk tales through the lens of science.
In our previous episode, we discussed some of the most popular, prominent,
well known, and plausible cryptids in all of India. Tonight,
we are finally getting to the weirdest ones question. Fellow

conspiracy realists, play along at home. Will your faithful correspondence
be able to solve any of these crypto zoological mysteries?

Speaker 4 (17:09):
We'll find out after a quick word from our sponsors.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
Here's where it gets crazy. Yes, I'm gonna say it
on record. We can't always say it in these episodes,
but this evening we can I am confident solve at
least one cryptozoological mystery. I mean also tales of cryptids.
Forgive me for that pun, guys, but hashtag no pun
left behind. You know, we know it is plausible to

assume in India, the given the vast biodiversity here and
the continued growth of the population, if actual cryptids exist
in this region in particular, they may well be discovered
in our lifetimes. And I'm not talking about just you know,
like a little frog that has a different series of bumps.

I'm talking like, hopefully a big one. I hope we
fight a big one.

Speaker 4 (18:07):
The very least one with like an extra set of
nostrils or something.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Right, Yeah, like a like a half man, half monkey.

Speaker 4 (18:17):
We teased this one in the last episode because I
think I sort of not spoiled jumped the gun a
little bit, and it just occurred to me because there
was this film that was out recently by Dev Patel
called Monkey Man that if I haven't seen it, but
everything for everything I've read, it essentially capitalized his character
capitalized on the myth of the monkey Man of New

Delhi in order to strike fear into the hearts of
his like opponents in the fighting pits. You know. So
that was actually I think my first exposure to this myth,
and it's a really interesting one. It's got some Scooby
Doo vibes after a fashion.

Speaker 3 (18:55):
Of course, of course, they're bigfoot like creatures, half man,
half monkey. We're not so different to you, and I
says the Sasquatch with an inexplicable British accent. Humans are
humans anywhere you go. Of course, it turns out pretty
much every civilization on this planet has had some sort
of hairy wild man mythology, and for two examples, we're

going to get to Pakistan in a moment, but I
like the vibe here. Let's go with the monkey Man
of New Delhi. It might be unfamiliar to I put
Westerns in the notes, but I met westerners accountability moment. There.
There was a straight up panic in the summer of
two thousand that racked the city of Delhi. And this

is a huge population, it's like nineteen million people, very
dense urban environment, but they were convinced there was a
murderous cryptid in their midst.

Speaker 4 (19:49):
Yeah, and it was during a series of pretty serious
rolling blackouts, which you know obviously affects climate control. It
was very, very hot, very very scary. People were not
doing super well mental health wise during this period of time.
And you know, when people are pressed in this way,

it can lead to paranoia. It can lead to you know,
not to say people were hallucinating or anything, but it
can lead to perhaps seeing things that aren't entirely there,
being unsure what it is that you're seeing, especially in
the dark of night.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Well, yeah, there's something about cities, no matter how far
advanced they are, no matter how early they are in
human civilization, when you've got a city center, right or
if we're talking about let's say Aztec mind civilization. You
may not refer to those as cities, but it is
a city, right, a bunch of people gathered together that

live very close together. Light is so important when you've
got that type of density, and especially when you have
a more modern city where people are so closely packed
in at night. First of all, if there's no light
and then you're just hearing the sounds of so many
other creatures that are most of them human near you,

it can have a psychological effect. Add to that, the heat,
which we know in previous episodes, has a tremendous psychological
effect on human beings. When it's hot out, you want
to get away from that generally, and if it's hot
at night and you can't cool yourself down through the
you know the ways that humanity has learned to cool

itself down.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
In the heat of the night.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yeah, there we go.

Speaker 4 (21:34):
I mean you a sexy, sexy heat of the night.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
The tension that must have existed in that time in
May two thousand in Deli, I can't imagine what it
must have been like, because it's not like it was,
you know, a blackout for a little time. You know,
a couple hours. Then the utility came out. Everything was fine.
We're talking especially about areas of Deli that we're poorer, right,

that we're that just didn't have as many wealthy people
because those folks had generators and stuff and they were
GTG or whatever.

Speaker 4 (22:08):
Yes, good to go.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
Unpredictable rolling blackouts, so adding to the psychological horror, you
don't have, for instance, the privilege and it is a
privilege of knowing that the power will be in operation
from say fifteen hundred to eighteen hundred. Right, you don't
have that predictability. You just have to get the light

while you can right, figure out the stuff that you
can before the light's cut at some moment, and hope
that scream in the distance is a fun scream and
not a crime, a curry more we right, maybe an animal,
you know, and you know, sometimes depending on what tragedies before, folks,

it can be difficult to discern the difference between the
scream of an animal and the scream of a human.

Speaker 4 (22:59):
Right. Well, and we're talking about too, I mean in
any urban city center, especially in places that are maybe
less expensive to rent and to live in. Usually people
are kind of living right on top of each other,
and so there really is that kind of almost hive
mined mentality there as you start to maybe experience vicariously

through others that fear creeping in. You know, you can
create a panic because you are so close to others
that might be themselves panicking.

Speaker 3 (23:31):
And this is not to pick on Delhi in any way.
We see this. We see the broad strokes of this
occur in multiple urban environments throughout history. Check out you know,
for instance, Jack the Ripper, Springhill Jack in the UK.
I guess now I'm just picking on the British. But
Deli police started receiving these complaints that there was a savage,

unidentified attacker harassing communities and what we could call the
Delhi metro area. And the complaints started coming in on
May tenth, two thousand, right in step with these blackouts
and this miserable weather. Immediately after the police started to
profile the attacker. The more they learned about it, the

more confusing it became, and they identified you know, first off,
you want description, you wantm all. The attacks took place
at night, never during the day. There was never any
surveillance footage, which also kind of makes sense because the
power was out. There were never any still photos, so
they had to rely on our favorite thing, eye witnessed descriptions.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah, and this isn't one person's description that says it
was a guy who was also kind of a monkey.
We're talking about around three hundred and fifty individuals or
let's say, individual sightings of this thing, this person, whatever
it was, and the majority of those sightings did agree
that this guy, whoever it is, was kind of kind

of monster like there was an ape like quality to
this person. I forget it was like one meter to
one point eight meters, so like three feet to six
feet tall. Yeah, and hairy, right, and no in red eyes.

Speaker 3 (25:22):
Here's suit red eyes like you know, if you've ever, uh,
if you've ever taken a picture of an animal where
the light refracts the wrong way, like kind of glowing eyes.
And then of course arms, the arm to leg ratio
being longer than that of your average homo sapien. And
so the I love that you're pointing this out, Matt.

It was not just one person, you know, calling in
to coast to coast or something. It was multiple people
who said they were being attacked by this thing that
was not quite a human and allegedly.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
At first, right at first, at least well while you're here,
let's say we're still around May tenth. The first descriptions
are really eerie because it's not like people are talking
to each other about this yet. It's not like anybody
knows about this. These are just the first reports that
are coming in.

Speaker 3 (26:13):
And they also included another allegation, an allegation of dare
I say, superhuman abilities because just like a Desi spring
heeled jack, this monkey man Hanuman, you might say, right, this,
whatever this thing is, it allegedly has this superhuman ability

to leap away from the crime scenes. It's not running,
it's jumping from the ground to the top of a
building and then off to the rooftops, like that old
Spider Man game on PLAYSTATIONE. Yeah, or Assassin's Creed.

Speaker 4 (26:51):
I'm glad you mentioned Hanuman because in my head, I
knew that there was some connection to like, you know,
a one of the pan antheon of Hindu gods, and
Hanaman is a Hindu god who's half monkey and half human,
but is a good god. It's considered a protector and
is actually often his image is placed at the entrance

of homes of Hindu homes and is considered a grantor
of boons and.

Speaker 3 (27:17):
A warder of evil word offer of evil.

Speaker 4 (27:22):
So this is like a good dude, you know. So
I just oftentimes when we see this hysteria around a
cryptid and reports of it, it often is tied to
some cultural kind of boogeyman, right, and so this isn't
that exactly right? It's interesting. I don't know, I wonder
what you guys make of that.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Well, Hanamon also had superpowers like could jump really far
across an entire giant raging river or.

Speaker 4 (27:50):
Jack you up. Though he'd like, you know.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
If you were a bad guy, he would.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
Just if you violated the wrong con after you.

Speaker 4 (27:57):
I also accounts this is a dude that's messing with
good people. This is messing with you know.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
It's not a costing random people in their homes during
a blackout.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
Monkey monkey economs, monkey gods are a very common thing
in this part of the world. Right, then there are
tons of really good movies coming out of China about
monkey kings.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
This does most of them are based on honomon right,
I mean, I.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
Think that's yeah, That's what I'm saying. It's a very
common thing, and these exist in the zeitgeist. These people
would have seen these things, is what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (28:33):

Speaker 3 (28:34):
There's also a feedback loop that occurs. Local media covers
this without pause. They want the clicks right and the
descriptions to your earlier point, Matt. They begin to become
more fanciful. We start seeing the game of telephone.

Speaker 4 (28:50):

Speaker 3 (28:51):
All of a sudden, one of these attacks has Freddy
Krueger like clause right, and then more of those descripts
later include or subsequently include Freddy Krueger like claws. And
then we see stuff saying, oh, it's a guy wearing
a leather jacket donating dotting a motorbike helmet, classic honomon.

Speaker 4 (29:13):
I'm gonna say it was that guy the whole time.
I mean, you know, not to you know, rain on
the parade, but it does strike me. I know we're
going to get into this, this crime of opportunity, you
know of more of like the ability to roll people
kind of in the dark and capitalize on their fears,
and then maybe a copycat element to it as well,

which I know you wrote about, Ben, and we're gonna
get to But this is when I start to think
about Scooby Doo, where every time there's a ghost or
a cryptid or a monster in Scooby Doo, it's always
just some jerk that's capitalizing on people's fears and suspicions
of the existence of some kind of boogeyman, you know,

and then you know it's every time.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
But you know what, the villains and Scooby Doo always
have a motive, that's true, a reason to do it. Yeah,
when you when you watch the AP newsreel that's included
that that you can find for these monkey man attacks
in Delhi in two thousand, there are people showing off
scars and injuries and it's usually like a small scrape

on their back or their arm, or a tiny child
that a mom is holding up that has you know,
their head wrapped into and it's just it's like small
again I use the word a cost because it's like
it's almost like somebody jumped in and popped you it good,
in the in the arm or in the back, hit
you in the back and maybe punctured a little bit
if they had a tiny claw or something.

Speaker 4 (30:38):
And took off.

Speaker 3 (30:39):
It's not an amputation there as well.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, there's not murders. There's not robberies. Often there's not
a motive I guess for why these attacks would occur, which.

Speaker 4 (30:48):
Is strange, very joker like though. It's just like sewing chaos,
you know, just the idea of capitalizing on this bad
situation and deciding to terrorize people, which is inherently you know, psychotic.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
I would say it has a lot. It sort of
functions as a precedent to those really crappy TikTok pranks
of sucker punching people. But this was not documented. These
reports clearly indicated to law enforcement that something was rotten

in this part of India, to paraphrase Shakespeare. So they
were in a terrible position. They created a reporting hotline
and they offered the equivalent of about one thousand US
dollars for information that could lead to the capture of
the now infamous monkey man, and that was about fifty
thousand rupees at the time two thousand and Now we

have to pause and say, a hotline for a cryptid
run by the cops. This creates a panic feedback loop,
especially amid the poor residents of the area who will
get some stats on them in a second. But you know,
by and large. These folks could not afford their own
backup generators, so instead they were forced to tremble through

those hot, dark nights, hoping the moon was full to
shed some light, wondering whether this was the evening the
Monkey Man would come for them. And this had real
world consequences. There were mob beatings. One poor van driver
just in the wrong place at the wrong time. This

mob decides that he is the monkey Man. They surround
his vehicle, they drag him out of his van, and
they beat the snot out of him. He goes to
the hospital. Multiple bones are broken. And then one guy
runs onto a roof because he's trying to escape what
he feels is an attack by the monkey Man. And

then later in a panic, he falls and he dies.
He falls from the roof and dies. And then worst
one that we found in this all common reporting, there
was a woman who was pregnant and she thought she
was gonna She thought she was under attack from this
infamous monkey Man. She tried to run, she fell down

a flight of stairs, she died, and the child was
lost as well. Again real world consequences.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
She shout out that I don't know if you guys
read the same one. It was the historic Mysteries article
on this. She just had a lot of good stuff
and it's titled who was the Monkey Man of Delhi?
It's really good bye Royson Everard.

Speaker 4 (33:33):
I'm gonna hazard a guess this isn't the one that
we're going to solve today.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
Well, we have some interesting circumstances here, some contexts that
needs to be provided, because after two weeks, the panic
that swept Delhi subsided gone essentially And there was a
great study in the Indian Journal of Medical Science in

two thousand than three, so a few years after this incident,
and they dove into the social context of this. Ninety
four percent of the reports of Monkeyman came from the
poorest region of Delhi. And of those reports, eighty nine
percent came from people with what we would consider an

impoverished background. Or I mean it's India, so it's socioeconomics,
so also lower cast. The cast system is its own
bag of badgers.

Speaker 4 (34:31):
Still very real.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
Yeah, But then maybe this led the experts and law
enforcement later to say, maybe the media kind of fan
the flames here. Maybe there were criminals who decided it
was hunting season or was open season because they could
just attribute whatever they do to the legend of the

Monkey Man. And then also the heartbreaking part is maybe
there were people who made up their own Monkey Man
stories in an attempt to get access to medical care.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Ooh no, that makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 4 (35:10):
Oh no, it's just heartbreaking.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
It matches up with again, just the footage that you
can see where there are people showing off what appeared
to be two very strange bite marks and a huge
scrape that looks like it's going to get infected. And
I can let's just let's say, I can imagine that
if you scraped your back really badly, you fell off
a moped or something, you fell off a bike, whatever,

you got scraped up, you can't access healthcare for whatever reason,
but you come in with a report of this, or
you make it look like you got attacked in a
different way. I could totally see that being a plausible explanation.

Speaker 4 (35:49):
To a point though, right because it's got so overwhelming
and the you know, law enforcement and medical infrastructure just
couldn't support the burn of the absolute deluge of calls
reporting this kind of stuff, so.

Speaker 3 (36:06):
Much so that eventually, again a few weeks in law
enforcement went back on their note about the hotline, and
they said, look, if you are making fraudulent claims, or
you are distributing misleading information, or you're reporting attacks without proof,
then you are going to be in trouble. It's not

going to be a fine. We will put you in jail.
And we have to understand in the context of this,
if someone goes to jail in some of these family groups,
then the entire family is massively screwed. So this is
an existential threat to a bloodline. Don't fib about monkey Man,
and then just like that, as a result, the Monkey

Man disappeared. We mentioned previously the works of fiction that
perhaps inspired panic. We also mentioned the film dep Ptel's
film that came out in April of twenty twenty four.
But we haven't even gotten guys. We're almost forty minutes in.
We haven't even gotten to Pakistan and the bar Men, oh,

which I like to call We have Bigfoot at home.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Oh yeah, but before you get there, just do more
quick points here. The first one is we saw something
similar with a hotline with a reward attached when we
were making Atlanta Monster. We're in the early eighties. The
Atlanta Police Department and the FBI set up a tip line,
so if you had any information on whoever this person
was that was kidnapping children and killing them, call in

tell us and you'll get a reward if it leads
to an arrest, right, And there were so many calls
that basically the task force just was in was so inundated.
They had to track down each one because each one
might actually be real, which means all the time, the
man hours that you pay this huge task force just
got eaten up.

Speaker 4 (38:00):
There's a balance there, though it starts to be like
it's more trouble than it's worth. It's the same with
Zodiac That was the thing too, right, there was that
wasn't a reward, I don't believe, but there was a
hotline at least the newspaper and there you know, it's
depicted in the film, just getting all these crank cranks
calling it.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
Well, yeah, they tried to set him up to actually
call in in the Zodiacs case, but in that case
it was just a huge resource drain. In this case,
I can imagine how if you know, one thousand dollars
may not sound like a lot to you listening, that
is a huge amount of money for a lot of people,

so the desire to do something in some way to
get that reward. I can just imagine that that would
be a highly desirable thing.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
Add this is again only one example of bigfoot like
or primate esque cryptids in this region. We're going to
pause for a word from our sponsors, and when we
return we'll learn and why we say Pakistan said we
have bigfoot at home.

Speaker 4 (39:10):
And we've returned with the bar menu of Pakistan. Pakistan?
Is that right, Ben the Barmanu? Yeah, yeah, we do
have big foot. Oh that's a meme right where it's
sort of like a janky version of the real thing.
Isn't that kind of the joke there? Yeah, it's like
there's one where it's like we have Pink Floyd at
home and it's like this dude playing Katsio keyboard and

seeing this weird version of another brick in the wall.
But yeah, the bar menu of Pakistan. The word itself
comes from the Koar language Kawar language, and it roughly
translates to forest man. So we go from monkey man
to forest man and bore were we teasing all these
forests that there could be, you know, strange and unusual

and undiscovered species lurking in around India. So here we
are in the shadowy darkness of the forests.

Speaker 3 (40:01):
Yeah, this creature is fascinating. Just like the Orang Pandak
erpendek and the orangutang right which has proven to exist.
This creature is alleged to possess traits of humans and
non human apes. This one, in particular real rough customer,
infamous for attempting to abduct women for the purposes of mating. However,

unlike a lot of campfire tales, this one got some
real scrutiny. We want to introduce you to a Spanish zoologist,
Yordi Margrener. For three years he searched for this wild
creature of Pakistan from nineteen eighty seven to nineteen ninety.

He then continued to search throughout the nineties up until
he was murdered during this search in Afganistan in two
thousand and two, and he was boots on the ground
interviewing folks who felt they had seen this thing. The
way they describe it is very strange, because they said

the creature was capable of processing animals like it wore
animal skins, it war hides. It apparently domesticated or tamed
dogs and horses. Those are very human things to do,
and there's so much more to the story. But the
plausible verdict I would argue is this, the craziest plausible verdict,

is that a human or group of humans living off
the grid in the wild may have become mistaken for
unknown or non human creatures due to their behavior.

Speaker 4 (41:45):
You mentioned the Iraan Pendak also comes to mind the
Iran Minnac of Malaysia, which was the oily Man or whatever,
which also was accused of sexually assaulting women and purported
to have a animal perhaps you know, ape like qualities
and covered in a sheene of either fur or like

oily kind of stuff. Since so a lot of this stuff,
there is that even game of telephone that happens between
large stretches of distance in the world.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
I was reading a forum of all things, which, right,
it's somebody wrote on a forum somewhere at some point,
but they were talking about the death we mentioned, right,
this this person who spent a lot of time looking
for this creature was murdered and according to this forum, well,
I'll give you the moderator's name, Rescue Ranger. That's a

person who made this post. Yeah, he said that this
guy Magriner was killed by his servant boy on the
orders of local militants. It says, yeah, interesting.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
And then we know if it's Afghanistan and shout out Tony.
I've gotten conspiracy realists listening to this. But we know
there is an unclean conspiracy that is pretty ancient continues
today in that part of the world, which is systematized,
normalized abuse of children. If you want to ruin your day,
look up Batci Basi. Do you guys know what I'm

talking about?

Speaker 4 (43:14):
I don't. I'll save it for a day.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
I want to ruin Yeah don't. We We've talked about
it on the show.

Speaker 4 (43:20):
For it, I must have blocked it out a good
thing to block out, yeah, probably.

Speaker 3 (43:26):
But the idea then, the idea of being to you,
ranger Rick, if you're tuning in, the idea being that
maybe this child was weaponized in that kind of system
of abuse.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
But yeah, who knows. It's just a strange story. And
you know, we we want to find a bigfoot somewhere. Please,
somebody out there, find.

Speaker 4 (43:49):
A big foot.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
You know, if you got big feet, maybe you can
count you know, be the change We we could also
move on to something a little more positive, right, a
bit more historical, nerdy, straight up unicorns. That's right, the
last unicorn all your favorite fairy tales. The Indis Valley

unicorn is endlessly fascinating. It is described as though it
is a real biological creature. Very long ago. We mentioned
plenty in an earlier episode. He writes about the unicorn
in a way, I'm gonna be honest with you folks,
in a way that is just realistic enough to me

to think maybe it was real, because it's not pretty.
It's not a pretty description. Do we want to do
the quotation?

Speaker 2 (44:42):
The fiercest animal is the unicorn, which in the rest
of the body resembles a horse, but in the head
a stag, in the feet an elephant, and in the
tail a bore. It has a deep bellow and a
single black horn three feet long, projecting from the middle
of the forehead. They say that it's impossible to capture

this animal alive.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
So it's a real clomper. Yeah, you know, it's a
real that's our that's our quadruped bigfoot. Apparently it is
not sexy. It's not that virgin, loving, graceful equine of
myth and legend in the West.

Speaker 4 (45:18):
It does not think friendship is magic. It does not
know it's coming.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
For you, and it's instead you know what strikes me
here is it's like the ivan Drago of unicorns. It's
essentially an ox with a big, murderous fighting horn and
it just sort of goes, you know, instead of.

Speaker 4 (45:40):
It'll do that Mortal Kombat finishing move where it just
skewers you and then tilts its head up so your
body slowly slumps down, sinks into the horns, and then
just sort of shakes you off. And it's this fatality
on the screen. That's what this fellow would do.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
There is additional historical context, though, because it's not just
one guy, well the most famous historian of the time.
It's not just one person writing about this. This is
I was thinking of the best way to say this
for everyone listening tonight. Imagine if Bigfoot was the national

symbol of a country in the modern evening, you know,
like pick a country and they say, you know what
represents us our national animal? Beat me here, Paul, Bigfoot,
that's us. That's our country. That's what indiscivilization did with
this unicorn. And the depictions of it are surprisingly consistent.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Yeah, the what is it the Mohenjo Daro the unicorn
seal That this thing is really interesting looking. It's got
it doesn't have feet like an elephant. I wouldn't say,
I don't even know about the boar tale, but it's
got almost it almost looks rhino like in the face

to me, or something thing or zebra like. It's depicted
with stripes almost in that big horn.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
Yeah, and it's it's found throughout all these seals of
the Harappan civilization as well what we would call loosely, uh,
the Indus Valley civilizations, and these seals which are pretty
common for their time. They date back to three thousand
to fifteen hundred BCE, and they heavily feature this unicorn.

It's the most common motif in these Indus seals overall.
And like you were saying, if you look at the
photo link of the seal, you can find it pretty easily.
Just go to Harrappa dot com. That's h A r
a pp a dot com. You can see the gallery
which depicts the thing. The one that we pulled for

this has a penis uh. Okay, well, the one I
put in the notes there is interesting because it has uh,
it has what appears to be some sort of human
made like feeding troth or chalice with decorations, so it's.

Speaker 4 (48:13):
Possible snout like almost like the bore part. Yeah, to
your point, Matt, there are lots of different versions of it,
but I'm looking at one that's engraved in either like
a coin like surface, like you know, it's etched into it,
and it also appears to have kind of side boobs.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
It's like the way just to finish this one part,
the idea here implies that there may have been domestication,
that humans may have been making something to feed it.

Speaker 4 (48:40):
And then to your point, like and Matt, maybe to
some of the confusion that maybe folks that are looking
at diferent versions of this might be experiencing. There are
ones that look just like straight up like an ox,
and there's ones that look straight up more like an elephant.
But then they are the ones that are kind of
the more proto version of the unicorn type thing we're
talking about. So maybe we're seeing depictions of what would

be the product of domestication, right.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
I think.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
So the thing we're saying off air is that there
is a large enough window of time that it is
possible something like this did exist and then went extinct. Right,
We know that different domesticated animals have gone extinct or
tamed animals.

Speaker 4 (49:27):
Can We also point out too, that some of these
were looking at a profile picture of it, which makes
it look like it only has one horn, But if
it was a front picture, you might be seeing two horns.
I'm just saying there are other images of it where
it has definitely has two horns, but it's a different perspective.
But a lot of these were looking at a side
image where you might just be seeing the profile of

the one horn because they're kind of lined up and
they'd be blocking the view of the other horn.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
Yeah, and you can't really fact check at this point
in history ratching, Yeah you really care. There are like
four libraries and the public's not allowed in them. So
obviously there's not a Wikipedia shout out to wiki. But
for a cryptid to appear so commonly in state level
artifacts for so long and so long ago, it is

not unfair to ask could this have been a real creature?
And of course, if you have cited a steroided up
unicorn in your neck of the global woods. We would
love to hear about it. Please don't try to fight it,
just take a picture. As always, be respectful of wildlife.

Speaker 4 (50:35):
Ben, do you think you could PvP a unicorn?

Speaker 3 (50:38):
Absolutely well, not that kind, absolutely not, not the roided
up variety. No, and you shouldn't. But one thing that
I think, unfortunately everybody listening has killed is a spider.
So in our pals cryptid map of India, one thing

that stood out to a several of us is the
idea of bioluminescent spiders. And the weird thing is India
has a ton of bioluminescent life. It also has a
ton of spiders, many of which scientists believe are as
of yet not identified. So could it be possible that

India has glow in the dark spiders.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
Yes, it's all it's Avatar's heck over there.

Speaker 4 (51:26):
Well you know nowhere else is avatars heck be. We've
also talked about it and maybe even done episodes exclusively
on Australia has tons of bioluminescent stuff. There's the whole
Bioluminescent Beach in Jarvis Bay where you see these these
things that wash up and they freaking seriously glow in
the dark, and there's also bioluminescent like stones and all

kinds of crazy stuff. So this feels very similar adj
Simpson to me anyway, And.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
Far more animals are bioluminescent than we might assume fellow
non biologists. In fact, the humans have their own little
bioluminescent glow which is pretty neat. Everybody's got a little
bit of the shining. Shout out Stephen King. India has a.

Speaker 4 (52:10):
Shinning do you want us get us seed?

Speaker 2 (52:14):

Speaker 3 (52:15):
India has entire, entirely bioluminescent forests. They're not that way
all the time. It depends on the monsoons, but they
occur especially in an amazing part of the country called
the Western Goths g h A t S. So we
know another fact, which is bioluminescence is real. Bacteria, fungi, fungi,

al algae, insects, and some aquatic animals all exhibit this.
The process is well understood. It is a chemical reaction
occurring within the organism wherein different chemical energy sources are
converted into radiant energy which produces light, and not all

of it is in the spectrum of light that humans
can see.

Speaker 4 (53:03):
Well, yeah, like I mean, maybe you know, any of
us growing up would here in the United States probably
have captured fireflies. That's probably the most common bioluminescence creature
that we maybe have actually seen or gotten our hands on.
But Ben, you pointed out off air that there are
plenty of creatures that we know and see every day,
or you know, relatively frequently, I guess, depending on how

doors you are that have bioluminescence. But it won't show
up because of that spectrum that you're talking about. So
it requires a little help to be visible to the
human eye.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Or it requires you to be a kitty cat. If
you're a kitty cat, you can see them, and those
spiders and other little insects probably look really tasty.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
And with all these facts in mind, you know, we
have to ask ourselves, is it that crazy the idea
of a glue in the dark spider? I mean, we
know that there are spiders everywhere. You know, shout out
there had the dream where you bleed spiders, But it's odd.

Speaker 4 (54:04):
Oh geez, that sugared me for some reason. Man.

Speaker 3 (54:07):
Yeah, there are different estimates that say India itself is
home to maybe something like fifty nine or sixty completely
different families of spiders, and we know they are unique
species of spiders in India spoiler by the way, they
are unique species as spiders. Pretty much anywhere you go,

there are a lot of spiders. But we don't have
a ton of information. Considering such a successful form of life,
we don't have a ton of information about spiders overall,
and it's kind of tough to find them in these
very densely biodiverse parts of the world. You're looking for

arachnid needles in this huge, gargantuan haystack of an ecosystem,
But I don't know. It could be cool. We know
that spiders can glow.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
Yeah, we do. We do well. And there's one specific
spider that was thought to be extinct for one hundred
and fifty years and then was discovered in this region
you're we were describing the gats region. After one hundred
fifty years, in twenty eighteen it was rediscovered. It's this
thing called the Crysilla volup chrysi la vo lupe and

it's a beautiful, strange looking jumping spider that's got bands
of bioluminescence in one right on its back. It's like
bluish blue and green colors. It's incredible looking.

Speaker 4 (55:38):
Sorry, guys, my mind is going back to the Fateful
plane ride where I was able to enjoy the film,
Madam Web, I feel like that spider was bioluminescence. You
all should check it out. It really is worth your time.
It's terrible in a delightful way.

Speaker 3 (55:51):
And we also know that. I love the point we're
making here, the idea that something can be called encryptid
because of his believed to be extinct only to be rediscovered. Right,
And when we say rediscovered, of course there's the whole.
There's the whole idea that discovery means Western science finds

it and makes a special little Latin name for it,
which is not the same as people not knowing it exists.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
Because it also makes it sound like it was gone
and all of a sudden it popped back into existence.
But in order for it to exist now, as you're saying, Ben,
it had to have existed the entire time. You just
didn't know or couldn't see it.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
Yeah, I mean, there is the outside, non zero possibility
of convergent evolution.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
Whoa, it came back again.

Speaker 3 (56:46):
It re evolved due to environmental pressures that is possible,
But that's winning a series of weird lotteries.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Dodo like just shows back up again that way in
two thousand years.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
No, boy, uh, you know that'd be that'd be a
weird time. What kind of environment do you live in
where the optimal end goal of evolution.

Speaker 4 (57:08):
Is to be a Dodo?

Speaker 2 (57:10):
Well, I think we might be in it.

Speaker 3 (57:12):
Big eggs good, Yeah, I like a bird with some
fat eggs.

Speaker 4 (57:20):
You know, apparently big eggs are really difficult to cook that.
I don't I've seen any cooking shows like the ostrich
egg is you know if that if you if that's
your grab on freaking chopped or whatever, you're gonna have
a hard time just.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
Scramble it, right, Yeah, but maybe that's not that.

Speaker 4 (57:34):
Maybe you're supposed to proach it in this particular challenge
that we're talking about. You don't always just get to
scramble at maview. Dang.

Speaker 3 (57:42):
Well, wish us luck as we continue our audition for Chopped,
Fellow conspiracy realists, and hold the phone, hold the slow
lures by its tail. We haven't gotten We have not
gotten to every single thing here. Now we did, I believe,
make very good case for the bioluminescent spider. As you

pointed out, Matt, it is also completely possible that a
series of iraq nids could have been coated with bacteria
or algae or some other bioluminescent material. That's all possible,
so we can consider that when proven. We have another cryptid,
a certain winged cat that can be proven. You can

solve that cryptozoological mystery yourself. Just look into uh, look
into winged cat, and you think of flying squirrels or
gliding squirrels, and that'll be the the breadcrumbs, right, that'll
lead you down that cryptozoological rabbit hole. What do you say, guys?

Is that good enough of a tease?

Speaker 4 (58:48):
I think so, yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
I was gonna say the word, but well, homework, it's okay.
Well you'll find it.

Speaker 3 (58:54):
You'll find it's it starts with a C.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
How about that it starts as a cat.

Speaker 4 (59:00):
It's cat.

Speaker 3 (59:01):
It is neither cat nor colombo.

Speaker 4 (59:07):
Thing. But one more thing, you guys, man, if flying
cat sounds dangerous, they're they're already. So can you imagine
if like as cantankers as cats can be, if they
could just it's like what, I you know, I don't
like birds because then before we're afraid they're gonna fly
up in your face. If cats had that power, don't
think i'd be a cat person, No, sir.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
I think we would. This whole you know epic we're
in where all the species are dying off again. I
feel like it would have been over a thousand years
ago if maybe it wouldn't be their fault. They're just
built for it.

Speaker 3 (59:43):
You know, I tried out, you know what I mean.
It's like watch your babies around large predatory birds. But
by the time you get full great ape size, you
could probably get one. You could probably snatch one out
of the air.

Speaker 4 (59:57):
You could PvP of flying cat, I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
Fly house cat. Yeah, a fly fly it's over.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
There are certain house cats that take me out by
right for the jugular one.

Speaker 3 (01:00:14):
Little You guys both have good situational awareness. It might
get one of your eyes, but you'll you'll get it
after you're dead.

Speaker 4 (01:00:25):
No, I'm saying that it slices you first, waits for
you to bleed out, then comes back for both eyes
and all the other soft bits.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
It's something about the way they lash on and then
bolt out of there.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
And nightmare fuel guys, And we hope We hope you
can trust us when we say that the mystery of
the winged cat is not an evil mystery. You're going
to be looking for phrases like paulk up billy, uh
p A U C A b I L L e E.

It is a Hindi term roughly trans to winged cats.
We can't wait to hear your guesses as you play
alog at home. We also can't wait to hear from
you folks. Once again, thank you to Truth is Fiction
yt on reddit and YouTube for that awesome cryptid map
of India. Some of these stories, some of these creatures,

their allegations thereof may well be episodes all their own.
They have their own rich mythology, lots of parallels to
known biology, and at the very least, they tell us
a lot about the societies in which these stories propagate.
If you enjoyed tonight's episode, be sure to tune in
for our upcoming explorations of more strange and unusual phenomena.

We're finally doing it after all these years. An episode
on crop circles.

Speaker 4 (01:01:49):
How did we not do that? How did we not
do that?

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
We did a video long, we did a video, and
we felt like, oh, we did that. Yeah, that's what happened.

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
That's what happened ed. Most importantly, folks, let us know
what we should cover next. We try to be easy
to find online.

Speaker 4 (01:02:09):
Oh yes we do. You can find us online at
the handle conspiracy Stuff where we exist. On Facebook, where
you can find our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy.
On YouTube, we have video content coming at you every week,
as well as on XFK Twitter. You can also find
it to the handle Conspiracy Stuff show on Instagram and TikTok.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
We have a phone number, call it one eight three
three std WYTK. When you call in, you'll hear a
familiar voice. Then you'll have three minutes say whatever you'd
like do. Tell us your name or whatever you'd like
to be called, and if we can use your name
and message on the air. If you've got more to
say than can fit in that three minute voicemail, why

not instead send us a good old fashioned email.

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
We are the folks who hear you whisper in the
dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
Stuff they Don't Want you to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio
app Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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Matt Frederick

Matt Frederick

Ben Bowlin

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Noel Brown

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