November 7, 2024 • 42 mins
Viking asks about Ferengi and bank scandals. Solar Boredom follows up on the earlier episode about abuse in Amish communities. Multiple Conspiracy Realists chime in with Letters From Home, and Humorous Harry returns with several absolutely awful jokes. All this and more in this week's listener mail segment.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is Nola.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagot. Most importantly, you
are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff
they don't want you to know. If you are hearing
this the evening it comes out, folks, let us be
the first to welcome you to Thursday, November seventh. We
(00:49):
are so excited to have our fellow conspiracy realist join us.
We're going to talk bank scandals. We're going to hear
a letter from a teacher. We're going to get some
letters from home. Before before we do any of that,
we are going to hear from one of the many
conspiracy realists who followed up with their own harrowing experiences
(01:09):
regarding our episode on abuse in the Amish community. Yeah,
we'll come right back with that after this quick little word.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
And we're back. And yeah, it's been mentioned we had
quite a few listeners right into us about the recent
episode we did on abuse within the Amish community, and
one in particular stood out to me that I wanted
to share. From an Aussie listener who goes by Solar Boredom,
he had this to say, good day, gentlemen. I've been
(01:43):
listening for a few years now and very much enjoy
the information in banter you all bring to the table.
Even when there are topics that may not be my
cup of tea or may have some conflicting information, I
still enjoy listening to all of your takes. I just
want to say that you all come forward as genuinely
caring individuals. It's very kind if you just say a
Solar boredom. He goes on, I just listened to the
(02:04):
Amish abuse scandal episode, and living in Australia and only
really having knowledge about the Amish through television and pop
culture and weirdoo haha, I didn't realize that perpetrators of
abuse could reintegrate within the community after a period of shunning.
I do also wonder if any fathers or other family
members of a victim could then retaliate. He says, beat
(02:26):
the shit out of someone, as we would say here
will a Solar Boredom. We say that over here too,
against the abuser, and then only have to apologize and
then be forgiven. That's interesting. I also can't help but
think that if a victim of abuse were a male child,
then maybe the punishment might be a bit more severe.
That is very interesting, and we'll talk about that just
(02:48):
a sec Once again, thank you for what you guys do.
You can use this on air if you wish, and
refer to me as Solar Boredom. Ps to whomever put
the random doorbell in the opening song. It makes me
laugh every time.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Thank you. So yeah, yeah, it's funny because guys and
Solar Boredom, thank you for raying in again. Noel and
Matt you may know this as well. I have had
a letter to Solar Boredom sitting in drafts by ror
not sending it. I got so excited when someone mentioned
the opening song Doorbell Cube, because the way I have
(03:23):
it in the draft, which you will read, Solar Boredom
is simply all praise due to my pal Matt Frederick.
He and I worked pretty closely on some odd stuff
and we were pretty sure we'd get the boot when
we started this strange endeavor and when Noel, when you
joined up, we just had some real gas on the fire.
So all praise to Matt on that. Well.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
It also just just to point out that that was
the theme for the original incarnation of the show, which
was visual on YouTube, and in the video opening for
the series, there is like a creepy dude.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
At a door, right, Matt, Well, yeah, there's a dude
in the basement. This happens to be the one that
called Ben, and he's checking out a conspiracy board and
he hears that doorbell ring, and immediately after it, the
front door opens and the logo, the show's logo that
used to be on a like a Manila folder falls
down as the door opens, and that's the reasoning behind
(04:18):
the doorbell that still exists in the old song from.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Six and it's a delightful easter egg that continues on
to this day.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
And for a side note too, thank you to everybody
who watches our videos our original incarnation of the show.
As you said, just a side note, This was back
before the men's rights stuff ruined Trilby's and Fidoras for everyone,
so I was still rocking pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
And one is a minute black thing.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, very much so, very much so.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
Ed trench coats are right out as well. You know,
not that you. I'm just saying fashion choices that have
not history has not been kind to You're right now.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I'm still stuck in and my glory days of the
seventeen eighteen hundreds with that stuff exactly, but to the
point that I think resonated with all of us here
the cycles of abuse. One thing that really stands out
about your letters, Solar Boredom is the question about male
children being abused as well. It has to be statistically inevitable, right,
(05:22):
isn't that what we discovered?
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Yeah, it certainly does, based on what we know about. Again,
a lot of these kind of insular communities that have
very specific guidelines around their sexuality and around their kind
of separation from secularism and all that stuff. You know,
we know that if you're kind of I guess I
don't know. It's hard, it's a tricky subject, but I
(05:45):
guess I guess I would use the term repressed slightly,
and that we see that in other situations and other
cases of abuse and whatever. The inclination of the person
whose sexual urges are being repressed might be that will
determine who they act on those repressed sexual urges toward.
(06:06):
I'm sorry, it's a very tricky thing, and I'm not
saying everybody would ever do that. You know, like, there
certainly are going to be cases where someone has made
the choice to not live a sexual lifestyle and they're
perfectly okay with that choice. But then there are individuals
who perhaps have darker tendencies and something click, something snaps,
and it causes them to act out in this way.
(06:28):
M Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
We see this time and time again in civilizations or
communities or societies that have repressed people's natural proclivities as
human beings. You need look new further than insert fundamentalist
community here. And I'm not saying fundamentalists specifically in a
Christian sense. I hope that's clear. But when you prevent
(06:53):
people from being human in one way or another, their
human side will still show well.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
And that's not to say I'm not trying to imply
that the Amish community aren't allowed to have sex. That's
not the case at all. It is just an act
that is very specifically designed to procreate and to build
a massive family and carry on the whatever the the
legacy of this type of belief system, and of course
(07:22):
things like you know, queerness, any sort of you know,
attraction to same genders would be absolutely looked down upon.
So I would almost argue, then it's even more likely
that abuse on same sex individuals would be common because
of the fact that there's no other outlet for that
(07:44):
at all.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
You know, Yeah, I'll join you in this, in this
bag of badgers. It's it is quite a sticky wicket
and difficult to discuss, and I think you're absolutely nail
in it. There noal one thing we like. One other
example for a stance would be the atrocious, unclean rate
of same sex abuse in very fundamentalist parts of the
(08:09):
world like Bacibasi and A'veghan his thought which we have
discussed before, which I think uh further emphasizes your point, Bro.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Some of the allegations against P Diddy, you know, in
the in the in like the hip hop community, the
idea of like being on the down low or whatever, like,
it wasn't until very recently in that kind of culture
that folks like Tyler the Creator and Frank Ocean and
some of these bigger names have come out and made
it kind of Okay to be gay.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
As a.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Million. Of course, I did not mean to leave him out,
but you understand what I'm saying, Like, for the longest
time that community was so based on masculine attitudes and actions,
and I one, you know, when you hear about things
like what R Kelly was convicted of and now the
accusations against P Diddy, many of which involved same sex abuse.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Have you seen the allegations guys of the basically the
use a term that's not real, the satanification of some
of that stuff in popular media and it being linked
to specific things of what stuff of popular music and
sexual things that are very popular right now, including somebody
(09:22):
like Lil nas X and you know it's weird because.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
He does dry hump the devil in one of his
ideos that human.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
But that's what I'm saying. If you're making the artistic
choice to include what would be considered satanic imagery in
your thing, like as a symbolic thing or whatever thing,
it doesn't help your you know whatever case like, no, this.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Is satanic, seriously, like Alice Cooper and yeah, yeah, going.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Way back, Ozzy Osbourne, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
It turned out to be an awful, awful person who
probably did many of the things that he was accusing.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, also beat me here, Dylan, h Brian, You're a
bad person.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Brian Brian Warner is his name, and he was not
the nerdy dude from the Wonder Year set, despite internet
rumor mongering. So sorry, man, please please please continue.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I guess what I mean, he says. I'm noticing, and
I think I'm just screwing with my algorithm a lot
by like specifically staying on reels for longer than I
should be to like analyze a couple of them. And
then now, my you're into that, dude, This is all
you are, right, But people who right now fully believe
(10:33):
that some version of Satan or you know, Horus or
Set or the Evil One or whatever this thing is
is in control of a lot of popular culture, especially
popular music. We've talked about that on the show before.
Sorry to take us down this n angle.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Here are we in a second Satanic panic? Or is
this cyclical?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
It's hard because of the bubble, right, I don't know
how much I am being catered to now by that
algorithm because I watch one or two things to analyze them,
versus how much that actually exists out on the planet,
people really feeling that way without irony saying Satan's got
a hold of you know, everybody, including Taylor Swift and
you know, just name your popular cultural person.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
I feel certain certain people believe that. I think there's
no question that there are people out there that believe
that with their whole hearts.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
I would argue that demographic has grown to in part
to the algorithms mentioned earlier.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
There.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
We have to remember, you know, for many people this
is an argument existing in the realm of metaphor. But
for many other people, a growing number of humans, this
is not a matter of metaphor. It is a matter
of literal interference by infernal powers and the thing that
(11:52):
to help just level set anybody's trying to help a
loved one off the ledge there. One of the best
questions about that is, if you accept the idea of
an infernal being that that solely exists in defiance of God,
(12:12):
then you also inherently accept the fact or the belief
that God is an omnipresent, omniscient entity. If that is
the truth, if all things being said previously are true,
then why would you worry.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
About the devil? I mean I don't know that you
need a devil with some of the interpretations of God
being as vindictive as he is.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Well, all the bath, all right, let's go with it
a dig it.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
But the whole point was to bring it back to
attempting to explain the behaviors of somebody, right, like a
father in one of these communities, who does this to
their own children, a brother or a sister that does
it to their sibling. I want to reference somebody who
called in. They called in a notomously, but I just
want to give this version of it, please. I think
(13:04):
in our discussion it was we had a specific heart
in the show where we were discussing how could somebody
who was abused go to court and defend, like write
a letter in defense of their abuser.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Right Mary Bile's mother.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yeah, there were several examples given throughout that thing that
were like somebody was pushed by the community to do
something like that. Right, This anonymous person called in in tears,
I would say from the assessment, telling us about how
she was molested by her brother. But she absolutely loves
(13:41):
her brother and acknowledges he was abused before he abused her.
And the person that abused him, it's known was abused
by somebody older than him, oh boy, and wrote just
the complex nature of being a used by a close
family member like that. And you know, if, at least
(14:05):
in my case, I've been in that situation, I can't
fully empathize with the complex nature of the feelings that
would exist there.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Sure we can talk about the rage and all that things,
because I know that it would exist for sure, right,
But I don't maybe fully understand that other part, that
is this person saying I love my brother no matter
what because he went through the same horrible stuff that
I went through.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
And I listen to that as well. And want to
thank you anonymous for reaching out. We respect your anonymity,
and please just know that you're helping people when you
take a stand on this stuff.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
I gotta say, though, I mean, it does feel like
that is an explanation, but it's certainly not a justification.
You know, someone can have serious mental illness and issues,
and if they choose to ignore them and not seek
help or not take responsibility for their own actions and
just keep blaming it on their abuse, then you're not
breaking the cycle, and then you're just you're perpetrating it.
(15:04):
You're perpetuating it rather so, you know. I mean, I'm
not saying we're all imperfect beings, you know, but I
just do think after a time, there does come a
point where you have to say, I can't continue doing this.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
I appreciate that though, because I think what you're doing
there is making a tremendously important point against oversimplifying these things.
They cannot be oversimplified. The human is a complex being.
Every single one is pretty unique. And we're talking about
intergenerational conspiracies of abuse, We're talking about the danger of normalization.
(15:42):
We're talking about things that cannot have a broad brush applied.
Because if you say that someone who was harmed at
one point will inevitably harm someone else, then we're getting
very close to a dangerously oversimplified argument. It would be
the same as saying anybody who got in a car accident,
(16:02):
anybody who got hit by another car is inevitably going
to hit another car years down the road. That's simply
not true. But it's as you said, it is so complex,
and the main thing to remember is that if you
have been victimized in some way, you are a survivor.
It is not your fault and the fact that you
(16:24):
are here this evening listening to the show. We are
immensely grateful and we are profoundly proud of you.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
And just the last thing. I mean, you know, I
can understand as well the complex nature of the abused
in saying my brother, I love my brother. He is
the product of his environment. Therefore he did this thing
to me. Therefore I have to forgive him because he
did not choose to be this way. It was forced
upon him. And while I understand that thought process, I
(16:54):
don't think it holds water when you disconnect yourself from
the emotionality of it, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
What I mean, Like, I just don't I just don't know.
I guess that's a privileged position to not know, but
that's the one I find myself in.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
And do you think it's a privileged position as well
to be the abused and to be able to decide
that that person should be forgiven? Like is it up
to society or the courts or whatever to judge that
person or is it up to the person who is abused?
It's oh, it's a it's a mind.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Well.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
The specific things we were talking about in the show
were instances where someone was abused and they attempted to
press charges right, and in that discussion, we found that
several times those charges got lessened, you know, when the
community surrounded for support. We found that, you know, as
we said, letters of support would be written by the
(17:48):
person who was abused. So I don't know, man, I've
even kind of lost my train of father.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
I mean, obviously, this is a very complex issue with
so many questions, and we do appreciate everyone that wrote
to us about especially folks that would come, you know,
to us with personal experience, and we really appreciate the
trust and honesty, and I think it's it's tremendously valuable
to anyone else listening who's been in a similar situation.
So we thank you with all of our hearts. And
(18:16):
let's take a quick break here a word from our sponsor,
and then we'll come back with some more messages from you.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
And we've returned and we are jumping to the phone
lines to have a little fog roll in on this
almost still spooky season. Right. I think that's one of
the things we're going with this week. This person is
calling in, not with anything really specific, but they are
commenting on some things we recently talked about on Strange
(18:47):
News and they mentioned something that guys, I want to
do just a little spur of the moment analysis of
something that's mentioned. If that's okay, I've left some links
in the h in our dock and we'll go through
them together, if that's cool. So let's listen to this message.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
Roles and subject matter named that bank scandal. I too,
have been caught up in more than one bank scandal.
I think I got like twenty some dollars out of
the Wells Fargo settlement they did a couple of years ago.
I'm just now learning about the TD bank one. I
remember I had to get a new bank account when
I bought a house. And apparently, you know, fe mobile banks,
(19:28):
you have to happen freaking margar location, which is fascinating
because so many briction Martar locations are closing because we'll,
you know, got to feed the shareholder comps somehow. I
don't know. Are we surprised that marangue behavior governs everything
and that range rules and acquisition ruined everything. That's what
(19:49):
we got. Yeah, I'm throwing cast the cyber truck chemical
factories now in Atlanta, Are you guys, all right, you
need a gas mask. You have one. I hope you
have one. I travel with one in the back of
my car.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Nice.
Speaker 5 (20:04):
You know, apparently the only person you can us with
your safety is yourself. It doesn't matter they call themselves
for how much says claims to make. As far as
money goes, none of them will ever see any form
of justice for the horrible decisions they make that may
(20:24):
or may not kill hundreds of people or cause cancer
for hundreds of people. I don't remember the Rangy taking
over the planet, but man for range rules of Acquisition
definitely governing this planet. How do you guys feel about that?
Or is it just like everybody else? I'm a single
(20:44):
tear job in the ocean. What am I going to
do anyway? J justin, I love the show. Thank you
for what you do. And as we are not together,
ghost cheers. I propose by Charlie.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
There we go from the Viking himself. So Viking makes
a lot of interesting points there, shouting out several things.
We can tackle them in any order. Eventually, I want
to get to the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition with you
guys and go, oh good good, We're gonna go through
them a little bit, I think, and name off some
of the rules. I've shared a link to those. But first,
(21:26):
what was that Ben? You said something about a gas mask.
I know we've talked about being prepared for things in
the past, right, We've talked about go bags, things to
carry in your car. We've talked about things to protect
yourself when, as Viking said, really you have to rely
on yourself when it comes to protecting yourself and anyone
else who's let's say, rolling with you in a vehicle
or staying with you in your home, just anything you
(21:47):
want to state. On gas masks in particular, it's.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Good to have one, it's good to have two. They're
also more affordable than we might assume.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Oh nice, okay, and we've talked about that before. If
anyone is interested in something like that, it's like the
stores that will sell military surplus often.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Yes, you can find them in your local military surplus store.
Keep in mind, not all gas masks are created equal.
Get a new one, don't get a deal on a
used one. Look, if you could get a deal on
a used one, I'd be all about it, but it's
not going to be a good deal, which will probably
come up in a Farrangi quote later quotation, but please
(22:29):
check the ratings and really consider what you want it for,
because just like a water filter, not all of these
gas masks are filtering the same things.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Excellent point, excellent, excellent point. All right, So, guys, I
thought this would be kind of fun. I remember the
Farrangi as an interesting alien species that were just very
good at, i don't know, getting their way. Often there
appears to be all kinds of discussion about this specific
Star Trek alien species.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
As a bit of a racist trope, right like, potentially
depending on your perspective of what country you come from.
I think it's been accused of being a stand in
for different races that are seen as adversarial perhaps or
like you know, known for being like meticulously capitalist.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, that's I guess how I recollect it. From watching
Deep Space nine as a child, it looks like there's
been a lot of discussion after I, you know, the
Frankie kind of left my world and I just kind
of remembered them. So I'm not really sure here if
we are just making, you know, a reference to Star Trek,
or we are just talking about capitalism or what. But
(23:40):
I thought as a fun thing, we could go through
the stuff that Viking mentioned. They're the Ferangi rules of Acquisition,
just to see if it feels like it's our world
and not a Star Trek universe. Does that make sense?
Absolutely so, if you guys don't mind pulling up the link,
we'll just go through the It's the one from the
(24:02):
Saint Minutia website on in our dock there. It's the Yeah,
it's st it's Star Trek Minutia. It's a great website.
St Dashmnusia dot com, and it has the entirety of
the canon rules of acquisition here.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
We're not gonna go through all five hundred of these though,
are no.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I thought it would be fun to just like randomly
say yeah, so the format I imagined guys would be
like this. Rule one, once you have their money, never
give it back. I don't know that makes sense to me.
I guess I don't know.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Rule three, never pay more for an acquisition than you
have to.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
I mean that's just good business, right right right?
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Going off this list, which is I think roughly canonical,
you'll notice, as student listeners at skips number two, there
are two competing Number two's so we'll just go to
number six, skipping four and five. Never family to stand
in the way of opportunity.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Oh yeah, got to put profits or family for sure.
Although the reason why it does this, guys, is because
in the show, like somebody will state that that's rule
number X or whatever you know, of the rules of acquisition.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
And this this list, this list cites the episodes they
come from as well. Yeah, and which series.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
So theoretically nobody ever said what rule four was.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
And you can go to like other articles where they
cite more things. And that's because some of these things
get referenced in novels as well as the TV show.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
Guys, having not seen any of these episodes, how do
they put it? They go rule number one of the
the Ferengi rule of the acquisition, and then they say.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
This is it something along those lines, because in the
books you also see you also see it mentioned as
you know, kind of like when people are following a
religion and they rationalize what they're doing by citing scripture. Yeah, yeah,
so that's why would occur organically we would say, mmmm,
at least that's my take.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Oh that's great. I like rule sixteen. A deal is
a deal until a better one comes along.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Rule ten greed is eternal. How is that a rule?
Oh yeah, that Isn't that just seems like an observation.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah, that's really.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
Yeah, I do. I do have Rule seven though, because
as I mentioned that, I believe the design of these characters,
they do have quite massive ears, and this rule is
keep your ears open, which I think maybe was a
little bit of a joke. I don't know, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Hmm, okay. Rule number forty. She can touch your lobes,
but never your latinum. It is a latinum latins your
lobes sounds dirty. Latinum is fascinating. It's this fictational, like
almost mercury looking, liquid metal thing that is worth just
so many credits, and it's highly highly coveted. It's awesome.
(26:52):
It looks really cool. You can see it displayed in
like a glass sometimes.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Number one twelve, never have sex with the boss's sister,
follow by number one thirteen, always have sex with the boss.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Hey, there you go. It sounds like a cult to me. Well, anyway,
there's a whole list here. I don't even know how
many there are, guys, because again, they don't go by
the numbers. They are just you know, a lot, but
you know they're amazing. More is good, all is better.
That's rule number two forty two. Boom.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
How many new rules are there, matt I.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
I'm at least down to rule two eighty nine that
I have seen, So that's a lot. Hopefully there's a book.
I wonder if there's a rule Fengi acquisition book like that.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Oh, there has to be.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
There has to be.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Yes, you can't free a fish from water.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Okay, that's rule two seventeen. Oh, this is the one. Guys.
Employees are the rungs on the ladder of success. Don't
hesitate to step on them. That's from rule to eleven.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Wow. Yeah. And so maybe the argument is that this
is a hyper capitalistic sci fi depiction of things that
are followed in capitalism.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, that's exactly what it is. So just the imagined
ideas of capitalism run amok to the point where that
is the only thing that is important, right, Profits over
any creature, over health, over any family, and literally anything.
Profits are the one thing that you chase, and that's it.
(28:31):
And you know, we've talked before in this show about
how we're in a system that is kind of set
up that way with open markets, right, publicly traded markets.
The way it functions, it's just kind of what it does.
That's what it was designed for, and it does. I
don't know, it makes me uncomfortable. I'm sure it makes
(28:51):
a lot of people uncomfortable, including our color Viking.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
There.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
I guess the important thing maybe here is to when
you're thinking of this and the negativity of it, is
to point it the system if you're going to be
and if you're feeling negative about it, because it is
the system itself, and it was designed to do exactly
what it's doing, and that is kind of the thing.
I don't know that causes me a lot of anxiety
(29:16):
when I think about what happened with that chemical plant.
As Viking said, what happened with you know, these banks
that just decided we're going to allow drug profiteers to
launder their money however long and however much they want.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
I mean, all of those things are kind of true.
Right We're we're not too far away from Conyers, where
it appears that although this huge chemical league did not
kill a bunch of people, yet, it appears that they
were able to get away with cutting corners at the
very least. Would we agree with that?
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, for sure, guys. Rule number one
seventy seven is know your enemies, but do business with
them all always right here, all trust nothing. That's rule
one ninety amazing.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
Another ear joke.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
There goes another ear joke. Sleep can interfere with your
lust for latinum.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
That's the expensive currency.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Yeah, don't sleep, it's gonna interfere.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
There are there are things too that come from these
weird like I'm looking through different sources of this, and
the the listed things often you know, jump around. For instance,
there is no rule two ninety five that we can find.
But the very last rule I see is four thirty one,
(30:44):
uh and two ninety nine. Two ninety nine from Star
Trek Voyager is whenever you exploit someone, it never hurts
to thank them. That way, it's easier to exploit them
the next time. It sounds yeah, and then four thirty one,
I don't know, it sounds pretty missions specific. When the
shooting starts, let the mercenaries handle it.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
That's smart, that's just smart thinking.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
I guess, good business for the merks.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
Yeah, man.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Rule number two fifty five A wife is a luxury.
A smart accountant is a necessity.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
And not all of this age as well, is one
of the females and finance don't mix.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Ooh, there you go. The world has been a lot
of different things a lot of the time, and we learn.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
As we go.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
All right, so that's it for this piece of listener mail.
We'll be right back with one more message from you.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
And we've returned. We'll keep this short with just a
few letters from home because as we're recording, it is
almost Halloween here, so we have octivigation on the way.
We'll give a brief shout out to our Facebook book group.
Here's where it gets crazy. As we mentioned in the past,
(32:05):
we often ask our fellow listeners to give us one
host name or a joke when you sign up for
the Facebook page. And I thought it'd be fun just
to share two of those really quickly. Here's one from Jeremy.
Jeremy says Ben Matt Nole. I wanted to do something cute,
(32:27):
but I just want to get here. While I'm thinking
about it, I found the show by a subject search
on Anunaki. I think let's pause there. Do we remember
the Anu Naki? Weren't they like the fallen angels.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
I always get Nefhlim and Annaki weirdly intertwined. I always
thought Nephelim were the combination of whatever the Anunaki were
and humans.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Oh wait, wait, wait, Ananaki or the ancient Sumerian deities right?
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Oh gosh, man, I don't know. I have to look
it up.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Religious syncrets strikes again, and so Annaki inspired Jeremy to
reach out to us, and Jeremy says, since then, I
went back to the start and I've been listening in
order for about a yearish. I just started the first
episode of twenty nineteen. I love knowing now what we
didn't know back then, and I'm just waiting for it
to come back up in a future episode. Love you guys.
(33:22):
Oh and I'm starting Ridiculous History today.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
Ah sweet.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
So thank you for that letter from home, Jeremy. We
hope you enjoy it. We also we also have a
bit of a time capsule experience ourselves when we look
back at classic episodes that we're republishing, like our Vaccines
Fact and Fiction episode. Did you guys listen back to that?
Speaker 4 (33:45):
Nope, it's a ride.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
It's definitely pre pandemic.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
It was well, yeah, we talked about it. It was
mostly about anti vaccine movements when it came to like
people who were all in on the belief that maybe
there was a connection to the autism spectrum, like with vaccinations,
and I think a lot of the vaccination from the past,
But that's pre that's well pre code nineteen stuff, right, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Yeah, and you can tell we weren't sure what was coming,
but just like in our previous Superbug episode, we noted
the statistical inevitability of this. We also want to give
a big shout out to Taylor, who joined us on
Facebook by saying, you guys are my favorite homies who
don't know they're my homies. Do you guys have homies
(34:39):
that don't know their homies?
Speaker 2 (34:41):
I mean there are a lot of podcasters that have
no idea that I feel like they're my best friends.
So yeah, I identify with that a lot.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Yeah, we're right there with you, Taylor. Also, while we're
just keeping this for light letters from home, galle heavy
there for a moment, I thought I was talking with
our Tennessee pal Dylan Fagan off air, and this is
just a fun Halloween conversation sort of off the rip
you guys went trick or treating as children, right.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I'm going trick or treating tomorrow as we record.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
This has broken the illusion.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Sorry, So what is the weirdest thing you guys got
when you were trick or treating?
Speaker 4 (35:24):
You know you asked this earlier and I nothing comes
to mind. I'm thinking of, like don't some people give
out like fruit or something. I don't know, like, oh yeah,
nothing really major. I don't know. Maybe you guys, You
guys experience is different.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah, when I was a kid, there are a couple
of houses when I was little. Wow, I can't believe
I remember this. There are a couple of houses that
would give away home baked goods as like the.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
Thing that's nice I would fly today. It is just
people are freaked out about that kind of I thought
it was a treat.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
I remember specifically lemon bars, like like that's why I
love lemon bar today.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
I think with a little crumbly stuff on top.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Yeah, just like in plastic wrap, just you know, just
wrapped it up and put it in there.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
And I was like, have you guys seen all the
memes or it's like make sure to check your Halloween candy.
I found the entire Urukai Army inside this Snickers barn,
you know, and and various things of that.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
Nation really got Trojan Horst.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
What's the uk Army?
Speaker 4 (36:24):
What's that? You know? From the Lord of the Rings.
They're the real batties, the bad Orcs, the Omega, the
Mega Orcs.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Okay, okay, we didn't real pop culture.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
But in the image for the meme, it's it's a
cross section of a Snickers with a tiny shot of
that scene where they're like amassing.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
And Dylan has a great story as forward. We may
not share it on air. I'll give you one. For
two years in a row, there was a very wealthy
guy in the neighborhood who had big fun, uncle energy
and quite a long driveway, and again two consecutive years,
(37:03):
instead of candy, he was clearly having like an adult
party during the Halloween evening and he would give us
lottery tickets, one lottery ticket and one condom each. WHOA, yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (37:17):
Don't know if that go over well in certain communities.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
He didn't go over well at the time, to be honest.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
I just you know, a lottery ticket and it would
be considered like a vice that tantamount to giving out
cigarettes and liquor something.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Yeah, he was probably that was probably another thing he
would have done. But I want to thank I want
to thank my mother for being so diplomatic. You could
tell she was a teacher. She took one look at
this prophylactic and then said, oh, that's candy for adults
and took it away. And then my dad said.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
No, let him keep it. Was it a flavored propylactic?
Speaker 3 (37:55):
I don't think so. I did not see it for long.
Just mystify. Please please follow the rules of the road
when you're giving kids candy and don't eat.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
I know they look delicious, but they're they're not good.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
There are forever chemicals in many of those propotactics.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
So yes, exactly. And with this we're going to end
a little bit late with uh with some Halloween jokes
from our pal Humorous Harry. Remember we forget Yeah, he's
in a menace he is. He is one of our
favorite menaceesn menci uh. So Humorous Harry says, oh God,
(38:41):
these are bad. How can you keep that part in?
How can you tell that Frankenstein's monster is in love?
Speaker 4 (38:48):
Hold on something about his neck bolts?
Speaker 3 (38:51):
I don't know close he falls to pieces? Does he know?
Speaker 2 (38:56):
I guess he's made of pieces?
Speaker 4 (38:58):
He does, though in the cannon of Frank is sign
he usually doesn't like fall apart though, like humpty dumpty.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
Yeah right, because he's sewn together. So yeah, here's one.
Here's one that I bet we can guess. What do
you call a wolf that is lost?
Speaker 4 (39:16):
A lone wolf? You got it? What is it?
Speaker 3 (39:20):
You got it?
Speaker 2 (39:21):
You always say it? Where wolf?
Speaker 4 (39:29):
It's like the witch? Witch is you know what I mean? Whitch?
Speaker 3 (39:34):
What is an apparition's favorite food?
Speaker 4 (39:37):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (39:38):
Hold on, Oh you got this?
Speaker 4 (39:40):
No I don't.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
It's something for people who like things spicy.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Oh, there could be this is several. It could be
a reaper.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
Yeah, well done, Well done, you guys. You guys both
got one.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
It was a pretty good clue though. Man, well I
didn't get all the way there.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
Thank you. No, no, you got there. Why are vampires
so good at baseball? Because they bring their own bats? Dylan,
I hope you're putting some weird rim shots. And after
each of these we are going to call it an evening.
Thank you so much to everybody who wrote in, or
(40:21):
called or contacted us online. Thanks to Jeremy Taylor, Viking,
Solar Boredom, and of course Anonymous. If you would like
to join the show, we'd love to hear from you.
We try to be easy to find so many ways.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
Oh my goodness, do we ever, and we hopefully succeed you.
We'd like to think so. You can find us at
the handle of Conspiracy Stuff, where we exist on Facebook
with our Facebook group Here's where it gets crazy, as
well as on x FKA, Twitter and on YouTube with
video content galore for your perusing enjoyment, on Instagram and TikTok. However,
(40:54):
we are Conspiracy Stuff Show.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Do you want to let the fog roll in? Viking?
Speaker 4 (41:00):
Did?
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Why not call one eight three three st d w
y t K when you call in? Don't say the
fog rolls in because that's Viking sync. But make up
your own catchphrase introduction statement.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
I know we're way past Halloween at this point, but
I's okay again, Peak Pine. The current is not Halloween yet,
irl Right now, have you guys seen the John Carpenter
movie The Fog about spooky ghost pirates.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Sure not to be confused with the mist.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
That's right, The mist is different. The fog is pretty schlocky,
but it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Well I need to check that out. I haven't seen
it yet. The mist really liked, i'd liked. I actually
liked the movie adaptation of that. Seriously bummer ending yep yep.
So when you call in, make up your cool catchphrase,
give yourself a cool name so we can put your name.
If you're comfortable, sure, whatever, We're gonna put it in
our system so we know when you call in again,
(41:51):
and we can keep track of you. No, it's just
so we can we can know our correspondence. We want
you to be a part of the show, like for real,
call that number, do all that stuff. Then you've got
three minutes say whatever you'd like. If you've got more
to say, or maybe have some attachments or photos or
something like that, why not instead send us a good
old fashioned email.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence
we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void
writes back. We promise it won't be bad news, but
how can you know for sure? It appears you have
to join us out here in the dark conspiracy at
iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is Nola.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagot. Most importantly, you
are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff
they don't want you to know. If you are hearing
this the evening it comes out, folks, let us be
the first to welcome you to Thursday, November seventh. We
(00:49):
are so excited to have our fellow conspiracy realist join us.
We're going to talk bank scandals. We're going to hear
a letter from a teacher. We're going to get some
letters from home. Before before we do any of that,
we are going to hear from one of the many
conspiracy realists who followed up with their own harrowing experiences
(01:09):
regarding our episode on abuse in the Amish community. Yeah,
we'll come right back with that after this quick little word.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
And we're back. And yeah, it's been mentioned we had
quite a few listeners right into us about the recent
episode we did on abuse within the Amish community, and
one in particular stood out to me that I wanted
to share. From an Aussie listener who goes by Solar Boredom,
he had this to say, good day, gentlemen. I've been
(01:43):
listening for a few years now and very much enjoy
the information in banter you all bring to the table.
Even when there are topics that may not be my
cup of tea or may have some conflicting information, I
still enjoy listening to all of your takes. I just
want to say that you all come forward as genuinely
caring individuals. It's very kind if you just say a
Solar boredom. He goes on, I just listened to the
(02:04):
Amish abuse scandal episode, and living in Australia and only
really having knowledge about the Amish through television and pop
culture and weirdoo haha, I didn't realize that perpetrators of
abuse could reintegrate within the community after a period of shunning.
I do also wonder if any fathers or other family
members of a victim could then retaliate. He says, beat
(02:26):
the shit out of someone, as we would say here
will a Solar Boredom. We say that over here too,
against the abuser, and then only have to apologize and
then be forgiven. That's interesting. I also can't help but
think that if a victim of abuse were a male child,
then maybe the punishment might be a bit more severe.
That is very interesting, and we'll talk about that just
(02:48):
a sec Once again, thank you for what you guys do.
You can use this on air if you wish, and
refer to me as Solar Boredom. Ps to whomever put
the random doorbell in the opening song. It makes me
laugh every time.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Thank you. So yeah, yeah, it's funny because guys and
Solar Boredom, thank you for raying in again. Noel and
Matt you may know this as well. I have had
a letter to Solar Boredom sitting in drafts by ror
not sending it. I got so excited when someone mentioned
the opening song Doorbell Cube, because the way I have
(03:23):
it in the draft, which you will read, Solar Boredom
is simply all praise due to my pal Matt Frederick.
He and I worked pretty closely on some odd stuff
and we were pretty sure we'd get the boot when
we started this strange endeavor and when Noel, when you
joined up, we just had some real gas on the fire.
So all praise to Matt on that. Well.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
It also just just to point out that that was
the theme for the original incarnation of the show, which
was visual on YouTube, and in the video opening for
the series, there is like a creepy dude.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
At a door, right, Matt, Well, yeah, there's a dude
in the basement. This happens to be the one that
called Ben, and he's checking out a conspiracy board and
he hears that doorbell ring, and immediately after it, the
front door opens and the logo, the show's logo that
used to be on a like a Manila folder falls
down as the door opens, and that's the reasoning behind
(04:18):
the doorbell that still exists in the old song from.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Six and it's a delightful easter egg that continues on
to this day.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
And for a side note too, thank you to everybody
who watches our videos our original incarnation of the show.
As you said, just a side note, This was back
before the men's rights stuff ruined Trilby's and Fidoras for everyone,
so I was still rocking pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
And one is a minute black thing.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, very much so, very much so.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
Ed trench coats are right out as well. You know,
not that you. I'm just saying fashion choices that have
not history has not been kind to You're right now.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I'm still stuck in and my glory days of the
seventeen eighteen hundreds with that stuff exactly, but to the
point that I think resonated with all of us here
the cycles of abuse. One thing that really stands out
about your letters, Solar Boredom is the question about male
children being abused as well. It has to be statistically inevitable, right,
(05:22):
isn't that what we discovered?
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Yeah, it certainly does, based on what we know about. Again,
a lot of these kind of insular communities that have
very specific guidelines around their sexuality and around their kind
of separation from secularism and all that stuff. You know,
we know that if you're kind of I guess I
don't know. It's hard, it's a tricky subject, but I
(05:45):
guess I guess I would use the term repressed slightly,
and that we see that in other situations and other
cases of abuse and whatever. The inclination of the person
whose sexual urges are being repressed might be that will
determine who they act on those repressed sexual urges toward.
(06:06):
I'm sorry, it's a very tricky thing, and I'm not
saying everybody would ever do that. You know, like, there
certainly are going to be cases where someone has made
the choice to not live a sexual lifestyle and they're
perfectly okay with that choice. But then there are individuals
who perhaps have darker tendencies and something click, something snaps,
and it causes them to act out in this way.
(06:28):
M Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
We see this time and time again in civilizations or
communities or societies that have repressed people's natural proclivities as
human beings. You need look new further than insert fundamentalist
community here. And I'm not saying fundamentalists specifically in a
Christian sense. I hope that's clear. But when you prevent
(06:53):
people from being human in one way or another, their
human side will still show well.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
And that's not to say I'm not trying to imply
that the Amish community aren't allowed to have sex. That's
not the case at all. It is just an act
that is very specifically designed to procreate and to build
a massive family and carry on the whatever the the
legacy of this type of belief system, and of course
(07:22):
things like you know, queerness, any sort of you know,
attraction to same genders would be absolutely looked down upon.
So I would almost argue, then it's even more likely
that abuse on same sex individuals would be common because
of the fact that there's no other outlet for that
(07:44):
at all.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
You know, Yeah, I'll join you in this, in this
bag of badgers. It's it is quite a sticky wicket
and difficult to discuss, and I think you're absolutely nail
in it. There noal one thing we like. One other
example for a stance would be the atrocious, unclean rate
of same sex abuse in very fundamentalist parts of the
(08:09):
world like Bacibasi and A'veghan his thought which we have
discussed before, which I think uh further emphasizes your point, Bro.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Some of the allegations against P Diddy, you know, in
the in the in like the hip hop community, the
idea of like being on the down low or whatever, like,
it wasn't until very recently in that kind of culture
that folks like Tyler the Creator and Frank Ocean and
some of these bigger names have come out and made
it kind of Okay to be gay.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
As a.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Million. Of course, I did not mean to leave him out,
but you understand what I'm saying, Like, for the longest
time that community was so based on masculine attitudes and actions,
and I one, you know, when you hear about things
like what R Kelly was convicted of and now the
accusations against P Diddy, many of which involved same sex abuse.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Have you seen the allegations guys of the basically the
use a term that's not real, the satanification of some
of that stuff in popular media and it being linked
to specific things of what stuff of popular music and
sexual things that are very popular right now, including somebody
(09:22):
like Lil nas X and you know it's weird because.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
He does dry hump the devil in one of his
ideos that human.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
But that's what I'm saying. If you're making the artistic
choice to include what would be considered satanic imagery in
your thing, like as a symbolic thing or whatever thing,
it doesn't help your you know whatever case like, no, this.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Is satanic, seriously, like Alice Cooper and yeah, yeah, going.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Way back, Ozzy Osbourne, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
It turned out to be an awful, awful person who
probably did many of the things that he was accusing.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, also beat me here, Dylan, h Brian, You're a
bad person.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Brian Brian Warner is his name, and he was not
the nerdy dude from the Wonder Year set, despite internet
rumor mongering. So sorry, man, please please please continue.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I guess what I mean, he says. I'm noticing, and
I think I'm just screwing with my algorithm a lot
by like specifically staying on reels for longer than I
should be to like analyze a couple of them. And
then now, my you're into that, dude, This is all
you are, right, But people who right now fully believe
(10:33):
that some version of Satan or you know, Horus or
Set or the Evil One or whatever this thing is
is in control of a lot of popular culture, especially
popular music. We've talked about that on the show before.
Sorry to take us down this n angle.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Here are we in a second Satanic panic? Or is
this cyclical?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
It's hard because of the bubble, right, I don't know
how much I am being catered to now by that
algorithm because I watch one or two things to analyze them,
versus how much that actually exists out on the planet,
people really feeling that way without irony saying Satan's got
a hold of you know, everybody, including Taylor Swift and
you know, just name your popular cultural person.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
I feel certain certain people believe that. I think there's
no question that there are people out there that believe
that with their whole hearts.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
I would argue that demographic has grown to in part
to the algorithms mentioned earlier.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
There.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
We have to remember, you know, for many people this
is an argument existing in the realm of metaphor. But
for many other people, a growing number of humans, this
is not a matter of metaphor. It is a matter
of literal interference by infernal powers and the thing that
(11:52):
to help just level set anybody's trying to help a
loved one off the ledge there. One of the best
questions about that is, if you accept the idea of
an infernal being that that solely exists in defiance of God,
(12:12):
then you also inherently accept the fact or the belief
that God is an omnipresent, omniscient entity. If that is
the truth, if all things being said previously are true,
then why would you worry.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
About the devil? I mean I don't know that you
need a devil with some of the interpretations of God
being as vindictive as he is.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Well, all the bath, all right, let's go with it
a dig it.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
But the whole point was to bring it back to
attempting to explain the behaviors of somebody, right, like a
father in one of these communities, who does this to
their own children, a brother or a sister that does
it to their sibling. I want to reference somebody who
called in. They called in a notomously, but I just
want to give this version of it, please. I think
(13:04):
in our discussion it was we had a specific heart
in the show where we were discussing how could somebody
who was abused go to court and defend, like write
a letter in defense of their abuser.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Right Mary Bile's mother.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yeah, there were several examples given throughout that thing that
were like somebody was pushed by the community to do
something like that. Right, This anonymous person called in in tears,
I would say from the assessment, telling us about how
she was molested by her brother. But she absolutely loves
(13:41):
her brother and acknowledges he was abused before he abused her.
And the person that abused him, it's known was abused
by somebody older than him, oh boy, and wrote just
the complex nature of being a used by a close
family member like that. And you know, if, at least
(14:05):
in my case, I've been in that situation, I can't
fully empathize with the complex nature of the feelings that
would exist there.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Sure we can talk about the rage and all that things,
because I know that it would exist for sure, right,
But I don't maybe fully understand that other part, that
is this person saying I love my brother no matter
what because he went through the same horrible stuff that
I went through.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
And I listen to that as well. And want to
thank you anonymous for reaching out. We respect your anonymity,
and please just know that you're helping people when you
take a stand on this stuff.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
I gotta say, though, I mean, it does feel like
that is an explanation, but it's certainly not a justification.
You know, someone can have serious mental illness and issues,
and if they choose to ignore them and not seek
help or not take responsibility for their own actions and
just keep blaming it on their abuse, then you're not
breaking the cycle, and then you're just you're perpetrating it.
(15:04):
You're perpetuating it rather so, you know. I mean, I'm
not saying we're all imperfect beings, you know, but I
just do think after a time, there does come a
point where you have to say, I can't continue doing this.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
I appreciate that though, because I think what you're doing
there is making a tremendously important point against oversimplifying these things.
They cannot be oversimplified. The human is a complex being.
Every single one is pretty unique. And we're talking about
intergenerational conspiracies of abuse, We're talking about the danger of normalization.
(15:42):
We're talking about things that cannot have a broad brush applied.
Because if you say that someone who was harmed at
one point will inevitably harm someone else, then we're getting
very close to a dangerously oversimplified argument. It would be
the same as saying anybody who got in a car accident,
(16:02):
anybody who got hit by another car is inevitably going
to hit another car years down the road. That's simply
not true. But it's as you said, it is so complex,
and the main thing to remember is that if you
have been victimized in some way, you are a survivor.
It is not your fault and the fact that you
(16:24):
are here this evening listening to the show. We are
immensely grateful and we are profoundly proud of you.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
And just the last thing. I mean, you know, I
can understand as well the complex nature of the abused
in saying my brother, I love my brother. He is
the product of his environment. Therefore he did this thing
to me. Therefore I have to forgive him because he
did not choose to be this way. It was forced
upon him. And while I understand that thought process, I
(16:54):
don't think it holds water when you disconnect yourself from
the emotionality of it, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
What I mean, Like, I just don't I just don't know.
I guess that's a privileged position to not know, but
that's the one I find myself in.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
And do you think it's a privileged position as well
to be the abused and to be able to decide
that that person should be forgiven? Like is it up
to society or the courts or whatever to judge that
person or is it up to the person who is abused?
It's oh, it's a it's a mind.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Well.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
The specific things we were talking about in the show
were instances where someone was abused and they attempted to
press charges right, and in that discussion, we found that
several times those charges got lessened, you know, when the
community surrounded for support. We found that, you know, as
we said, letters of support would be written by the
(17:48):
person who was abused. So I don't know, man, I've
even kind of lost my train of father.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
I mean, obviously, this is a very complex issue with
so many questions, and we do appreciate everyone that wrote
to us about especially folks that would come, you know,
to us with personal experience, and we really appreciate the
trust and honesty, and I think it's it's tremendously valuable
to anyone else listening who's been in a similar situation.
So we thank you with all of our hearts. And
(18:16):
let's take a quick break here a word from our sponsor,
and then we'll come back with some more messages from you.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
And we've returned and we are jumping to the phone
lines to have a little fog roll in on this
almost still spooky season. Right. I think that's one of
the things we're going with this week. This person is
calling in, not with anything really specific, but they are
commenting on some things we recently talked about on Strange
(18:47):
News and they mentioned something that guys, I want to
do just a little spur of the moment analysis of
something that's mentioned. If that's okay, I've left some links
in the h in our dock and we'll go through
them together, if that's cool. So let's listen to this message.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
Roles and subject matter named that bank scandal. I too,
have been caught up in more than one bank scandal.
I think I got like twenty some dollars out of
the Wells Fargo settlement they did a couple of years ago.
I'm just now learning about the TD bank one. I
remember I had to get a new bank account when
I bought a house. And apparently, you know, fe mobile banks,
(19:28):
you have to happen freaking margar location, which is fascinating
because so many briction Martar locations are closing because we'll,
you know, got to feed the shareholder comps somehow. I
don't know. Are we surprised that marangue behavior governs everything
and that range rules and acquisition ruined everything. That's what
(19:49):
we got. Yeah, I'm throwing cast the cyber truck chemical
factories now in Atlanta, Are you guys, all right, you
need a gas mask. You have one. I hope you
have one. I travel with one in the back of
my car.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Nice.
Speaker 5 (20:04):
You know, apparently the only person you can us with
your safety is yourself. It doesn't matter they call themselves
for how much says claims to make. As far as
money goes, none of them will ever see any form
of justice for the horrible decisions they make that may
(20:24):
or may not kill hundreds of people or cause cancer
for hundreds of people. I don't remember the Rangy taking
over the planet, but man for range rules of Acquisition
definitely governing this planet. How do you guys feel about that?
Or is it just like everybody else? I'm a single
(20:44):
tear job in the ocean. What am I going to
do anyway? J justin, I love the show. Thank you
for what you do. And as we are not together,
ghost cheers. I propose by Charlie.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
There we go from the Viking himself. So Viking makes
a lot of interesting points there, shouting out several things.
We can tackle them in any order. Eventually, I want
to get to the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition with you
guys and go, oh good good, We're gonna go through
them a little bit, I think, and name off some
of the rules. I've shared a link to those. But first,
(21:26):
what was that Ben? You said something about a gas mask.
I know we've talked about being prepared for things in
the past, right, We've talked about go bags, things to
carry in your car. We've talked about things to protect
yourself when, as Viking said, really you have to rely
on yourself when it comes to protecting yourself and anyone
else who's let's say, rolling with you in a vehicle
or staying with you in your home, just anything you
(21:47):
want to state. On gas masks in particular, it's.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Good to have one, it's good to have two. They're
also more affordable than we might assume.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Oh nice, okay, and we've talked about that before. If
anyone is interested in something like that, it's like the
stores that will sell military surplus often.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Yes, you can find them in your local military surplus store.
Keep in mind, not all gas masks are created equal.
Get a new one, don't get a deal on a
used one. Look, if you could get a deal on
a used one, I'd be all about it, but it's
not going to be a good deal, which will probably
come up in a Farrangi quote later quotation, but please
(22:29):
check the ratings and really consider what you want it for,
because just like a water filter, not all of these
gas masks are filtering the same things.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Excellent point, excellent, excellent point. All right, So, guys, I
thought this would be kind of fun. I remember the
Farrangi as an interesting alien species that were just very
good at, i don't know, getting their way. Often there
appears to be all kinds of discussion about this specific
Star Trek alien species.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
As a bit of a racist trope, right like, potentially
depending on your perspective of what country you come from.
I think it's been accused of being a stand in
for different races that are seen as adversarial perhaps or
like you know, known for being like meticulously capitalist.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, that's I guess how I recollect it. From watching
Deep Space nine as a child, it looks like there's
been a lot of discussion after I, you know, the
Frankie kind of left my world and I just kind
of remembered them. So I'm not really sure here if
we are just making, you know, a reference to Star Trek,
or we are just talking about capitalism or what. But
(23:40):
I thought as a fun thing, we could go through
the stuff that Viking mentioned. They're the Ferangi rules of Acquisition,
just to see if it feels like it's our world
and not a Star Trek universe. Does that make sense?
Absolutely so, if you guys don't mind pulling up the link,
we'll just go through the It's the one from the
(24:02):
Saint Minutia website on in our dock there. It's the Yeah,
it's st it's Star Trek Minutia. It's a great website.
St Dashmnusia dot com, and it has the entirety of
the canon rules of acquisition here.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
We're not gonna go through all five hundred of these though,
are no.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I thought it would be fun to just like randomly
say yeah, so the format I imagined guys would be
like this. Rule one, once you have their money, never
give it back. I don't know that makes sense to me.
I guess I don't know.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Rule three, never pay more for an acquisition than you
have to.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
I mean that's just good business, right right right?
Speaker 4 (24:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Going off this list, which is I think roughly canonical,
you'll notice, as student listeners at skips number two, there
are two competing Number two's so we'll just go to
number six, skipping four and five. Never family to stand
in the way of opportunity.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Oh yeah, got to put profits or family for sure.
Although the reason why it does this, guys, is because
in the show, like somebody will state that that's rule
number X or whatever you know, of the rules of acquisition.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
And this this list, this list cites the episodes they
come from as well. Yeah, and which series.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
So theoretically nobody ever said what rule four was.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
And you can go to like other articles where they
cite more things. And that's because some of these things
get referenced in novels as well as the TV show.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
Guys, having not seen any of these episodes, how do
they put it? They go rule number one of the
the Ferengi rule of the acquisition, and then they say.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
This is it something along those lines, because in the
books you also see you also see it mentioned as
you know, kind of like when people are following a
religion and they rationalize what they're doing by citing scripture. Yeah, yeah,
so that's why would occur organically we would say, mmmm,
at least that's my take.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Oh that's great. I like rule sixteen. A deal is
a deal until a better one comes along.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Rule ten greed is eternal. How is that a rule?
Oh yeah, that Isn't that just seems like an observation.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah, that's really.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
Yeah, I do. I do have Rule seven though, because
as I mentioned that, I believe the design of these characters,
they do have quite massive ears, and this rule is
keep your ears open, which I think maybe was a
little bit of a joke. I don't know, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Hmm, okay. Rule number forty. She can touch your lobes,
but never your latinum. It is a latinum latins your
lobes sounds dirty. Latinum is fascinating. It's this fictational, like
almost mercury looking, liquid metal thing that is worth just
so many credits, and it's highly highly coveted. It's awesome.
(26:52):
It looks really cool. You can see it displayed in
like a glass sometimes.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Number one twelve, never have sex with the boss's sister,
follow by number one thirteen, always have sex with the boss.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Hey, there you go. It sounds like a cult to me. Well, anyway,
there's a whole list here. I don't even know how
many there are, guys, because again, they don't go by
the numbers. They are just you know, a lot, but
you know they're amazing. More is good, all is better.
That's rule number two forty two. Boom.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
How many new rules are there, matt I.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
I'm at least down to rule two eighty nine that
I have seen, So that's a lot. Hopefully there's a book.
I wonder if there's a rule Fengi acquisition book like that.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Oh, there has to be.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
There has to be.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Yes, you can't free a fish from water.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Okay, that's rule two seventeen. Oh, this is the one. Guys.
Employees are the rungs on the ladder of success. Don't
hesitate to step on them. That's from rule to eleven.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Wow. Yeah. And so maybe the argument is that this
is a hyper capitalistic sci fi depiction of things that
are followed in capitalism.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, that's exactly what it is. So just the imagined
ideas of capitalism run amok to the point where that
is the only thing that is important, right, Profits over
any creature, over health, over any family, and literally anything.
Profits are the one thing that you chase, and that's it.
(28:31):
And you know, we've talked before in this show about
how we're in a system that is kind of set
up that way with open markets, right, publicly traded markets.
The way it functions, it's just kind of what it does.
That's what it was designed for, and it does. I
don't know, it makes me uncomfortable. I'm sure it makes
(28:51):
a lot of people uncomfortable, including our color Viking.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
There.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
I guess the important thing maybe here is to when
you're thinking of this and the negativity of it, is
to point it the system if you're going to be
and if you're feeling negative about it, because it is
the system itself, and it was designed to do exactly
what it's doing, and that is kind of the thing.
I don't know that causes me a lot of anxiety
(29:16):
when I think about what happened with that chemical plant.
As Viking said, what happened with you know, these banks
that just decided we're going to allow drug profiteers to
launder their money however long and however much they want.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
I mean, all of those things are kind of true.
Right We're we're not too far away from Conyers, where
it appears that although this huge chemical league did not
kill a bunch of people, yet, it appears that they
were able to get away with cutting corners at the
very least. Would we agree with that?
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, for sure, guys. Rule number one
seventy seven is know your enemies, but do business with
them all always right here, all trust nothing. That's rule
one ninety amazing.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
Another ear joke.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
There goes another ear joke. Sleep can interfere with your
lust for latinum.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
That's the expensive currency.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Yeah, don't sleep, it's gonna interfere.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
There are there are things too that come from these
weird like I'm looking through different sources of this, and
the the listed things often you know, jump around. For instance,
there is no rule two ninety five that we can find.
But the very last rule I see is four thirty one,
(30:44):
uh and two ninety nine. Two ninety nine from Star
Trek Voyager is whenever you exploit someone, it never hurts
to thank them. That way, it's easier to exploit them
the next time. It sounds yeah, and then four thirty one,
I don't know, it sounds pretty missions specific. When the
shooting starts, let the mercenaries handle it.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
That's smart, that's just smart thinking.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
I guess, good business for the merks.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
Yeah, man.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Rule number two fifty five A wife is a luxury.
A smart accountant is a necessity.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
And not all of this age as well, is one
of the females and finance don't mix.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Ooh, there you go. The world has been a lot
of different things a lot of the time, and we learn.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
As we go.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
All right, so that's it for this piece of listener mail.
We'll be right back with one more message from you.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
And we've returned. We'll keep this short with just a
few letters from home because as we're recording, it is
almost Halloween here, so we have octivigation on the way.
We'll give a brief shout out to our Facebook book group.
Here's where it gets crazy. As we mentioned in the past,
(32:05):
we often ask our fellow listeners to give us one
host name or a joke when you sign up for
the Facebook page. And I thought it'd be fun just
to share two of those really quickly. Here's one from Jeremy.
Jeremy says Ben Matt Nole. I wanted to do something cute,
(32:27):
but I just want to get here. While I'm thinking
about it, I found the show by a subject search
on Anunaki. I think let's pause there. Do we remember
the Anu Naki? Weren't they like the fallen angels.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
I always get Nefhlim and Annaki weirdly intertwined. I always
thought Nephelim were the combination of whatever the Anunaki were
and humans.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Oh wait, wait, wait, Ananaki or the ancient Sumerian deities right?
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Oh gosh, man, I don't know. I have to look
it up.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Religious syncrets strikes again, and so Annaki inspired Jeremy to
reach out to us, and Jeremy says, since then, I
went back to the start and I've been listening in
order for about a yearish. I just started the first
episode of twenty nineteen. I love knowing now what we
didn't know back then, and I'm just waiting for it
to come back up in a future episode. Love you guys.
(33:22):
Oh and I'm starting Ridiculous History today.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
Ah sweet.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
So thank you for that letter from home, Jeremy. We
hope you enjoy it. We also we also have a
bit of a time capsule experience ourselves when we look
back at classic episodes that we're republishing, like our Vaccines
Fact and Fiction episode. Did you guys listen back to that?
Speaker 4 (33:45):
Nope, it's a ride.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
It's definitely pre pandemic.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
It was well, yeah, we talked about it. It was
mostly about anti vaccine movements when it came to like
people who were all in on the belief that maybe
there was a connection to the autism spectrum, like with vaccinations,
and I think a lot of the vaccination from the past,
But that's pre that's well pre code nineteen stuff, right, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Yeah, and you can tell we weren't sure what was coming,
but just like in our previous Superbug episode, we noted
the statistical inevitability of this. We also want to give
a big shout out to Taylor, who joined us on
Facebook by saying, you guys are my favorite homies who
don't know they're my homies. Do you guys have homies
(34:39):
that don't know their homies?
Speaker 2 (34:41):
I mean there are a lot of podcasters that have
no idea that I feel like they're my best friends.
So yeah, I identify with that a lot.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Yeah, we're right there with you, Taylor. Also, while we're
just keeping this for light letters from home, galle heavy
there for a moment, I thought I was talking with
our Tennessee pal Dylan Fagan off air, and this is
just a fun Halloween conversation sort of off the rip
you guys went trick or treating as children, right.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I'm going trick or treating tomorrow as we record.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
This has broken the illusion.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Sorry, So what is the weirdest thing you guys got
when you were trick or treating?
Speaker 4 (35:24):
You know you asked this earlier and I nothing comes
to mind. I'm thinking of, like don't some people give
out like fruit or something. I don't know, like, oh yeah,
nothing really major. I don't know. Maybe you guys, You
guys experience is different.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah, when I was a kid, there are a couple
of houses when I was little. Wow, I can't believe
I remember this. There are a couple of houses that
would give away home baked goods as like the.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
Thing that's nice I would fly today. It is just
people are freaked out about that kind of I thought
it was a treat.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
I remember specifically lemon bars, like like that's why I
love lemon bar today.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
I think with a little crumbly stuff on top.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Yeah, just like in plastic wrap, just you know, just
wrapped it up and put it in there.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
And I was like, have you guys seen all the
memes or it's like make sure to check your Halloween candy.
I found the entire Urukai Army inside this Snickers barn,
you know, and and various things of that.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
Nation really got Trojan Horst.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
What's the uk Army?
Speaker 4 (36:24):
What's that? You know? From the Lord of the Rings.
They're the real batties, the bad Orcs, the Omega, the
Mega Orcs.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Okay, okay, we didn't real pop culture.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
But in the image for the meme, it's it's a
cross section of a Snickers with a tiny shot of
that scene where they're like amassing.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
And Dylan has a great story as forward. We may
not share it on air. I'll give you one. For
two years in a row, there was a very wealthy
guy in the neighborhood who had big fun, uncle energy
and quite a long driveway, and again two consecutive years,
(37:03):
instead of candy, he was clearly having like an adult
party during the Halloween evening and he would give us
lottery tickets, one lottery ticket and one condom each. WHOA, yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (37:17):
Don't know if that go over well in certain communities.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
He didn't go over well at the time, to be honest.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
I just you know, a lottery ticket and it would
be considered like a vice that tantamount to giving out
cigarettes and liquor something.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Yeah, he was probably that was probably another thing he
would have done. But I want to thank I want
to thank my mother for being so diplomatic. You could
tell she was a teacher. She took one look at
this prophylactic and then said, oh, that's candy for adults
and took it away. And then my dad said.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
No, let him keep it. Was it a flavored propylactic?
Speaker 3 (37:55):
I don't think so. I did not see it for long.
Just mystify. Please please follow the rules of the road
when you're giving kids candy and don't eat.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
I know they look delicious, but they're they're not good.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
There are forever chemicals in many of those propotactics.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
So yes, exactly. And with this we're going to end
a little bit late with uh with some Halloween jokes
from our pal Humorous Harry. Remember we forget Yeah, he's
in a menace he is. He is one of our
favorite menaceesn menci uh. So Humorous Harry says, oh God,
(38:41):
these are bad. How can you keep that part in?
How can you tell that Frankenstein's monster is in love?
Speaker 4 (38:48):
Hold on something about his neck bolts?
Speaker 3 (38:51):
I don't know close he falls to pieces? Does he know?
Speaker 2 (38:56):
I guess he's made of pieces?
Speaker 4 (38:58):
He does, though in the cannon of Frank is sign
he usually doesn't like fall apart though, like humpty dumpty.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
Yeah right, because he's sewn together. So yeah, here's one.
Here's one that I bet we can guess. What do
you call a wolf that is lost?
Speaker 4 (39:16):
A lone wolf? You got it? What is it?
Speaker 3 (39:20):
You got it?
Speaker 2 (39:21):
You always say it? Where wolf?
Speaker 4 (39:29):
It's like the witch? Witch is you know what I mean? Whitch?
Speaker 3 (39:34):
What is an apparition's favorite food?
Speaker 4 (39:37):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (39:38):
Hold on, Oh you got this?
Speaker 4 (39:40):
No I don't.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
It's something for people who like things spicy.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Oh, there could be this is several. It could be
a reaper.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
Yeah, well done, Well done, you guys. You guys both
got one.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
It was a pretty good clue though. Man, well I
didn't get all the way there.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
Thank you. No, no, you got there. Why are vampires
so good at baseball? Because they bring their own bats? Dylan,
I hope you're putting some weird rim shots. And after
each of these we are going to call it an evening.
Thank you so much to everybody who wrote in, or
(40:21):
called or contacted us online. Thanks to Jeremy Taylor, Viking,
Solar Boredom, and of course Anonymous. If you would like
to join the show, we'd love to hear from you.
We try to be easy to find so many ways.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
Oh my goodness, do we ever, and we hopefully succeed you.
We'd like to think so. You can find us at
the handle of Conspiracy Stuff, where we exist on Facebook
with our Facebook group Here's where it gets crazy, as
well as on x FKA, Twitter and on YouTube with
video content galore for your perusing enjoyment, on Instagram and TikTok. However,
(40:54):
we are Conspiracy Stuff Show.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Do you want to let the fog roll in? Viking?
Speaker 4 (41:00):
Did?
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Why not call one eight three three st d w
y t K when you call in? Don't say the
fog rolls in because that's Viking sync. But make up
your own catchphrase introduction statement.
Speaker 4 (41:13):
I know we're way past Halloween at this point, but
I's okay again, Peak Pine. The current is not Halloween yet,
irl Right now, have you guys seen the John Carpenter
movie The Fog about spooky ghost pirates.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Sure not to be confused with the mist.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
That's right, The mist is different. The fog is pretty schlocky,
but it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Well I need to check that out. I haven't seen
it yet. The mist really liked, i'd liked. I actually
liked the movie adaptation of that. Seriously bummer ending yep yep.
So when you call in, make up your cool catchphrase,
give yourself a cool name so we can put your name.
If you're comfortable, sure, whatever, We're gonna put it in
our system so we know when you call in again,
(41:51):
and we can keep track of you. No, it's just
so we can we can know our correspondence. We want
you to be a part of the show, like for real,
call that number, do all that stuff. Then you've got
three minutes say whatever you'd like. If you've got more
to say, or maybe have some attachments or photos or
something like that, why not instead send us a good
old fashioned email.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence
we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void
writes back. We promise it won't be bad news, but
how can you know for sure? It appears you have
to join us out here in the dark conspiracy at
iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know News
Hosts And Creators
Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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