August 1, 2024 • 49 mins
Arborious prompts a conversation about ESP and the nature of intuition. Joe calls in to ask whether state-level actors have countermeasures against psychic abilities -- which will be a future episode. Ben brings one of his current obsessions to the air: What is the most dangerous large, non-human animal, as defined by: the one animal that could beat up any other animal. All this and more in this week's listener mail segment.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know, a
production of Iheartrading.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hello and welcome back to the show. My name is Noel.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Our colleague Matt is on Skibbity Adventure and will be
returning soon. They call me Ben. We're joined as always
with our super producer Paul mission controlled decands. Most importantly,
you are you. You are here. That makes this the
stuff they don't want you to know, Noel, it is
one of our favorite evenings of the week.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
It is bam. Sorry, I do have to say in
the spirit of strange news which came before you mentioned Skibbitty,
and I.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Did just want to point out what I thought was a.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Joke, strange news story, like a fake news story, was
in fact true. Michael Bay is launching a cinematic intelevisial universe.
I honestly, I mean I feel like I'm maybe more
in the know than a lot of millennials. I thought
Skimmity Toilet was just like one viral video. It's apparently
(01:20):
a whole universe of this, like unreal Engine kind of
dated video game engine generated content of this dystopian kind
of universe that has been memed of course and turned
into like games on Roadblocks and all of these other platforms.
And Michael Bay, of all people, is developing this into
(01:42):
a whole world, and I think it's the end. Times
are nine.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
My friend, our buddies Jack and Miles over at the
Daily Zeitgeist hipped me to that story, and I thought
they were just riffing with each other in their typical
dry humor. Also, skibbity is a thing Jack O'Brien made up.
What do you mean, like parallel thinking made up? No,
(02:10):
he completely manufactured the whole thing. No, yah, yeah he did.
And gas lighting is also a thing he made up.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Oh that's what you're doing. See I get it. Okay,
got it, Consider me, consider my consider my gas lit
As the kids say, not even know if they say
that anymore? What do the kids say? Let's talk to
some kids in the form of listener mail.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
All right, let's get into it, because we are going
to hear some fantastic messages from our fellow conspiracy realists
and Noel. There's an email that I think really spoke
to both of us. I can't wait to I can't
wait to hear this.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
One on air. Well, I can't remember exactly which segment
it took place, and espe we talk about a lot,
but Matt, I believe brought a story about a true
crime event, you know, I believe either a murder, that
some amount of the detective work was leaning on a
dream or something like that, or like some purported psychic abilities.
(03:23):
And then we got into the whole discussion of like
is psych art psychic ability is real. It's in the
original cold open of the video and the podcast, you know,
from psychic powers to the paranormal, all of that good stuff.
So it is kind of red meat for a show
like this, But I was pretty surprised when I came
out and said that I do think psychic phenomenon is real.
And Matt was much more skeptical.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
He's skeptical about the weirdest things, which is part of why.
But also what a genius this guy, our colleague, Matt.
We have new chumps in the squad. I was interested
in this too, and I think a lot of us
playing along at home felt called to the concept of
(04:09):
esp and intuition. We know that in the past law
enforcement has used the idea of psychic discovery as a
way to get around, you know, certain legal restrictions. But also,
(04:31):
you know, my family's past. Man, I come from a
place where people genuinely do believe that they practice psychic powers.
And to your earlier point, we have spent years exploring
the line between intuition and esp.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah, and not to you know, delay the message too
much longer. But what also came up in that discussion,
you know, around Matt's story was an interview we did
with Russell targ years ago, who has a book called
Third Eye Spies about a literal program the CIA had
of this guy helped design very smart dude from MIT
(05:15):
to supposedly help train psychic spies, you know, to be
able to astrally project to locations where victims are being
held or kidnapping or murder you know, evidence or bodies
or what have you. And talking to him really turned
a corner from me because this is like a really
learned individual who really straddles the kind of line between
(05:39):
science and the supernatural. And I'm pretty sure that this
has been discussed outside of our crew, but dude clearly
seemed to be the inspiration for Egon Spangler in the
Ghostbusters because I think you know. Ghostbusters, of course a
comedy movie with some horror elements. It is a very
interesting exploration of that line between science and the occult
(06:02):
and supernatural stuff. So now moving on to the letter
from one of my favorite nicknames of recent memory, our
borious master of plants. Yes, is very elden ring or
something like. I don't know exactly what it is, but
it has a great mouthfeel to it. And here we go,
ohy gents, our bore is here master of plants. I
(06:23):
inserted that regarding the woman whose dream led the police
to the murder victim. My thinking on such matters is
as follows. I fully believe in phenomena like prescient dreams,
but I don't think there's anything supernatural involved our subcon Yeah,
and she does. Our subconscious minds are orders of magnitude
(06:44):
all caps more powerful than we realize, constantly compelling and
connecting thousands of data points in ways we couldn't possibly
imagine or accept. I like the computer analogy, our subconscious
minds processors aren't down with piloting our meat machines, which
is like an industrial band name for the ages instead
(07:07):
running in the background performing millions of tiny calculations we
know nothing about. When something comes together, it makes sense
that it would be presented via a subconscious process like dreaming.
So that woman subconsciously absorbed thousands of tiny clues from
people and situations around her, which eventually added up to
the location of the bodies. Mannerism smells tiny visuals nearby
(07:31):
people's conversations she wasn't listening to. Who knows, But how
many times have you heard stories like I dreamed of
someone I hadn't seen in years and randomly ran into
them the next day. The majority of people, if they're honest,
would probably tell you they've had similar experiences, And I
think a lot of that comes down to the power
of the subconscious mind. Something to think about when you
(07:52):
can spare the bandwidth. Thanks Jens, I hope you know
that what you do has a real impact on people's
lives and mental states. That's very positive, even when you're
talking about frightening things. I don't know how you manage
that exactly, but keep it up, Arboreous Master of plants, Ben,
I mean not to be redundant. We've certainly talked about
various aspects of this, you know, over the many years
(08:14):
we've been doing the show, but a couple of things
stand out. I think Arboreus laid it out beautifully in
terms of like what is the line between psychic abilities
and intuition? I recently, I think we both did. We
may be going to see it together for a second time.
Saw the horror movie Long Legs, and there's a character
who's an FBI agent who has these intuitions or these
(08:37):
these premonitions, with the line where her boss is like, well,
being half psychics better than nothing, and then said, how
about we just call it? How about how about we
just call you highly intuitive? And she she says that's fair.
And I think that's really interesting. But I also know
that we have problems sometimes in court cases with eyewitness accounts.
(08:59):
So how do these things that up, Like if we're
it all depends on the person, doesn't it? Like we
all of us have these subconscious things that we're picking
up on. Some people are just better at interpreting the
data accurately with others because we know all of these
things can also add up to stories we tell ourselves
to complete fabrications.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Right, Yeah, I think that's a vary, astute, observational, and
our boy is want to thank you in specific for,
as we said, laying this out in such a perfect way.
We don't want to be redundant. This is important. If
(09:38):
you are looking for a book to teach you more
about intuition, please please please read The Gift of Fear
by Gavin de Becker. We've mentioned it in the past.
It came out in nineteen ninety seven, so I guess
it's relatively new in the grand scheme. But the idea
(10:00):
here is this guy de Becker looked through the notion
of intuition, the idea that you have a hunch, like Noel,
for instance, have you ever met someone and had a
really good or really bad vibe off them that you
couldn't explain consciously?
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Bro Vibes are currency, my friend. I mean seriously, like,
if you can't, if you don't have the ability to
kind of discern that from somebody, then you're gonna be
left in the dust a lot of times, or it's
gonna be a lot easier people to take advantage of you,
because I mean, if you don't kind of get a
(10:40):
general sense of someone's authenticity, you know, from the moment
you kind of meet them, then that things might not
go super well for you, you know, in terms of
you know, the ability for people to deceive you. Right.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah, And this sensitivity, this sensitivity is no less magical
when we understand it, right, It's still brilliant stuff. A
lot of these unconscious cues you're describing a boreas are
part of the daily interaction of humans with their environment
(11:18):
and with other life forms. One thing that may be
of particular interest to a lot of us listening tonight
would be the concept of spell. You have vestigial pheromone
receptors in your body if you are human, and sometimes
that can explain why you do or do not vibe
(11:40):
with another person. You can learn more about the use
of intuition as seen through the framework of psychic powers
in excellent documentaries like Vibes starring Jeff Goldbloom and Cyndi Laverer.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
It is a fabulous work of investigative journalism. Yeah, no,
it's good. But seriously, though, I mean, when I say
vibes are currency, I think I was. I was saying
that coming from a lot of the coverage around the
political climate or the race right now and how people
were saying that JD jb Vance just has like no
(12:18):
riz and just his vibes aire is instantly like trash.
And we are playing a ViBe's game, a vibes based
game where if someone comes off as insincere, immediately you're
like not in their corner. And the thing is, you
can be really good at feigning sincerity as well. And
(12:39):
like tricking people's vibe sensors, you know, that is also
a thing, but in general, if someone's just really ham
fisted at it, it's gonna trip people's spidy senses in
that way. And I love that you mentioned the smell
angle because we often talk too about like what our
equipment is as human beings, and like, you know, dogs,
there's always the old trope in the movies when the
(13:01):
bad guy comes into the house and the dog. The
victim is clueless about his intention, but the dog knows
what's up. And you know, while dogs maybe can't speak
to us, it's very clear that they have equipment more
finely tuned that are picking up. We even talked about spectrum,
like the visual spectrum where they can maybe even see
(13:21):
other dimensions or something like that, right, like and the
idea of a color spectrum and things that transcend you know,
this physical plane, I guess.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Or at least the things that the humans can observe, right,
infrared light, for instance, that's that's what Yeah, sorry, thank
you Ben. No, no, it's perfect. There's also Look, what
this teaches us is that if we are thinking critically
about the concept of hunches or intuition or psychic powers,
(13:53):
whatever you want to call it, we do know that
the information the human brain thinks about, like the metacognition
when you think about why do I like or not
like a person that is coming to you in an
incredibly digested, preanalyzed form from your subconscious. Your subconscious, the
(14:20):
part of your brain that you don't really speak to,
it is continually evaluating innumerable variables and factors. You might think,
for instance, oh, this person's energy is really clicking with me,
and you have to walk uphill cognitively to figure out
(14:46):
why you have made that assumption. You are processing information
that another part of you has delivered to you, sort
of wrapped up and assembled.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
You know, it's almost like a packet of data, like
a data stream coming into a computer over a network.
It's all about like parsing it out and like separating
the noise from like the actual good packets.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Yeah, exactly. So the concept of dreams is fascinating as well,
because one of the best technological comparisons would be defragging
a hard drive. That's what the human brain does when
it sleeps, right, yes, ondred percent.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
But there are like different, I guess schools of thought
behind that, even where it's like do dreams mean anything?
You know, there's like Freudian thought or whatever, and that
kind of you know, philosophy I guess behind it. I mean,
there's a science to it, I suppose, but it is
all kind of like theory, you know, like is it
really your subconscious delivering important stuff to you? Or is
(15:46):
it just kind of nonsense, fragmented gobbledegook, you know, Like
I had a dream last night that I went on
a laundry stealing caper, like I robbed a lotmat of
other people's clothes with the cast of all that the
nineteen nineties children's sketch show, and then we ended up
(16:08):
going on a rampage and being chased by the police
through like this suburban neighborhood and like some Northwestern kind
of like place, and then I was arrested by a
police officer who was played by Oh gosh, who's the
guy that was the ladies man on SNL.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Oh No, that guy.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, and he I had a bag of weed on
me and he said I was in a part of
New York where that wasn't legal and he took it.
And then but then one of the guys from all that,
Danny Tamberelli, Little Pete from Pete and Pete, he said, no,
that's mine, it wasn't his. Oh, and he got me
off with Tim Meadows. Yeah. But it's like, what is that?
What is that possibly trying to tell me? If it's
(16:50):
anything or is that just the product of a maybe
not rested enough mind.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
It's it's telling us.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
You know, the defrat argument is interesting, and I agree
with you, aarborious master of plants, that the subconscious mind
is doing a lot of work behind the scenes. Right.
So when we're always very careful when we wrestle with
the concept of psychic abilities, right because it gets a
(17:25):
bad rap. There are a lot of hoaxters out.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
There taking advantage of people cold readers on those TV shows,
or they're trying to speak to people's deceased relatives, and
it's all full flammed and absolutely taking advantage of people's emotions.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Yes, exactly, leveraging those weaponizing them even But here's here's
the thing, and we're when we say this what you're
going to hear next, we know it's going to speak
to a lot of us at home right now, personally.
People who genuinely experience what we could call strong intuition
(18:06):
if we're being diplomatic. Those people are not going to
be your Madam Bell's. Those people are not going to
do any kind of call in line or publish a
book that they want you to buy or make you
pay to talk to them. Those people are typically, and
this is just my experience, they're typically going to have
(18:31):
a number of discreete moments that are inexplicable to them, epiphanies, revelations.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
They might not even know what their abilities are. They
might have explained them away, or like live their whole
life feeling as so it's a burden or some kind
of curse, you know.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yeah, they wake up and they decide they shouldn't get
on the plane right or they find themselves for some
reason unable perhaps to leave their home to go to
their job, and then later there's a massive car accident
or an explosion. Now, how do we explain this? I
(19:12):
can tell you that in most cases of which I
am aware, most cases that I can prove of intuition,
people are very afraid of being ridiculed or being seen
as a wing nut. So there is a huge burden
of trust that has to exist for someone to tell you, Hey,
(19:36):
I have information about a thing that might apply to you,
and I am trusting you to not tell other people.
But just so you know, you know, even small stuff.
I was recently, this is big in my family. Like
I recently, I've got some friends moving out to Los
Angeles and I had to tell them that the second
(20:00):
house they look at is bad. Okay, I'm serious, you know,
And it's weird to say that on air.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
So would you call that intuition or would you call
that like something extra?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Well, I just know the second house is a bad one.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Man. Okay. That reminds me that, I mean, that reminds me.
There's a scene again, there's no I'm not I don't
want to spoil anything, but there is a scene in
Long Legs where a character that knows something about a
house without having the right to know it, you know,
without having necessarily received any intel or any like, you know,
actionable data or evidence. It's just a feeling. Oh, I
(20:39):
know what I was gonna say too. Is a lot
of times. That's why in movies you always see the
person like, but you gotta listen to me, you gotta
listen to me. They're gonna the building's gonna blow up.
Nobody believes them, and they look like a crazy person
until the thing happens, you know.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Right, yeah, just like you said, uh and before we
before he pause and move on. But one thing that's
very important that you just brought up NOL is the
idea of known unknowns and unknown unknowns. Not to sound
too much like a certain politician, but the concept here is. Look,
(21:17):
if you ground a plane because you know the plane
will crash, and the plane therefore does not crash because
you kept it on the ground, you are in a
lose lose situation. Right, You've saved lives, but you look
like a crazy person because you can't prove the plane
(21:37):
would have crashed.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Wow, And if the final Destination franchise has anything to
be believed, you know death's coming for you. In an
elaborate Rube Goldberg fashion sooner or later? So is it
really just kind of like delaying the inevitable? Now I'm joking,
but I think all of this stuff is absolutely you know,
food for thought. Let's take a quick break. Thank you
Rborius by the way for having both a delightful nickname
(22:01):
and a great email for us to discuss. We're going
to be right back with some more listener mail, and.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
We have returned. We're going to go to the phone
lines here. This is a nice follow up to our
earlier conversation. Joe asked a question that I would love
your opinion on.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Here we go.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
Hey, guys, it's Joe here from you know we should
rather not say. Was just listening to that by episode
and was also watching the documentary and the thought came
to me, the CIA is declassifying all these documents and
(22:52):
allowing people to have this knowledge of remote viewing and
the like of psychic abilities. Don't you think they have
some preventative measures for that already in place? So if
the general public was to achieve set abilities, they have
(23:16):
the proper protection. I don't know, it seems like they
wouldn't just let us know that without you know, having
some proper caution. I don't know. It's something to think about.
Love you guys, keep it up. You know my name
and this message and whatever you need to Thanks guys,
(23:41):
all right.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
I knew this would be of interest to you, but absolutely,
I mean it's it's perfect counterpoint to to what we
just were talking about.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
And I think the Russell Target interview comes up yet
again because we know the CIA had a program to
train spies that was declassified or whatever led Target to
be able to talk about it, but of course they
would have to have countermeasures, you know. And we also
know that there are other countries that also have secret
(24:09):
spy type programs or I'm sorry, psychic spy type program right.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Right right, most particularly the ussr UH and during the
Cold War. This first off, Joe, what a fantastic question.
The idea of counter measures against weaponized esp as we
established earlier, we could we could use esp and intuition
(24:37):
as synonyms right in practice, So is there a way
to to protect against the weaponization of enemy intuition? What
a weird sentence to say, you know, uh, this run
you know what this reminds me of not just not
(24:58):
just Targ Russell, Targ who is a super cool guy.
But it also reminds me of our earlier episode on
the concept of timfoil.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Hats sure protecting our you know, shielding us from potential infiltration,
like directly into our our minds, and God, man, give
me not to to derail too far from us. But
it makes me think too of like all of the
implant technology that is now kind of becoming much more
of a reality, and the idea of like our brains
(25:30):
being able to literally be hacked. So that's not exactly
esp but it's almost more terrifying and very real. So
whatever your your thoughts on extrasensory perception and you know,
psychic powers might be. But I don't know, Ben, do
we have any evidence of any counter intelligence programs designed
(25:51):
to protect against these sorts of things or is it
more just sort of like space race type stuff where
we have to like, you know, keep up with the
John with the you know, what's a good Russian name?
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Uh, the the politically incorrect version would be keep up
with the Ivans. There you go, is how they would
have said it in World War Two and the Cold War. Look,
we know there was provably some I would say dabbling
in this idea of protecting protecting the information in an
(26:26):
asset's mind. Uh, and this doesn't quite reach the level
of like, okay, So what what Joe was asking about,
basically is the Magneto helmet. If you're a fan of
comic books, if you're if you're a Marvel nerd, then
you know that the reason Magneto wears his special helmet
(26:48):
is because it prevents telepaths from being able to mess
with his mind. Right exactly, yeah, right, So it's.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
The idea is to have control of a mind that powerful,
that already contains, you know, that has the ability to
literally make anybody do anything, that would be you know,
tantamount to handing over the launch codes to the naming.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
And I love that you're saying that because in this story,
both or in the lore, both Charles Xavier and Eric
Lyncher Magneto, they are both essentially walking weapons of mass destruction, right,
and controlling that kind of mind could lead to catastrophic
(27:31):
existential threats. So what we do see, or what we
did see at least during the Cold War, was early
research that I don't know, it was kind of spaghetti
at the wall stuff. Early research in the Soviet era
(27:52):
about the concept of using certain materials to build like
a psychic Faraday cage. You know, so if Faraday cage
is a real thing, it will prevent certain types of
energy from penetrating a barrier. So back in earlier evenings,
(28:16):
the Soviet government did fund research into not just the
concept of astro projection. Here in the US, we had
Stargate project, we had Project Start.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Absolutely. At the same time the Soviets were conducting this
kind of research, they were also working to figure out
how to defend against this kind of thing. Now, for
a lot of us more skeptical folks in the crowd,
this all sounds very woo woo, you know, made up stuff.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Well, because to build a device like this would kind
of require a much clearer understanding of how these things work. Then,
I would argue any and scientific I mean, the scientific
community barely acknowledges that this stuff exists. So how would
you like use science to build something to protect against
something that scientists don't believe is real? I don't know.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Yeah, that's a great point. Also, further, if we're just
being hard nosed about this, why would you evolve a
countermeasure in addition to countermeasures that you already know work.
For instance, why would you use polonium on someone who
(29:33):
lives on the third story of a building with some
really nice windows.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Yeah, you don't bring polonium to a window fight. Never
do it, that's true, that's aol and no promise we
won't bring polonium to the window fight.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
But but you see what I'm saying, Like the question here.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Path of least, there's a there's a path of less
resistance at the very least, right.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The acronym that is very popular here
in the West is kiss keep it simple, stupid, So
we don't want complicated Rube Goldberg esque attempts at solving something.
If there was and this has not been proven, but
(30:18):
if there was, if we're just freestyling, if there was
some sort of weaponized psychic ability, then the immediate move
would be to contain it, and if someone else controls it,
to eradicate. And if you're eradicating it, then you're not
(30:39):
going to make some kind of fancy you know, what's
that Stranger Things solution to it type device or what right,
You're just going to neutralize them with full prejudice.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Yeah, and then you know, an asset like that would
be as accessible for that type of of let's call
it operation as any other political figure would be, you know,
in terms of protection, in terms of isolation, siloing or
all of that good stuff. And I guess what we're
talking about here too is maybe because you know, obviously
(31:14):
regular old run of the mill ESP would be dangerous
in terms of the ability to extract intelligence, to distract
you know, as a surveillance right. But I think what
we also might be talking about is going a little
further into like hardcore telekinesis stabilities you know, to like
use like Professor X could or magneto it could literally
lift a building off the ground and smash it into
(31:37):
you know, another building, or like use powers of their
mind to act as weapons in and of themselves. So
that to me maybe would be I don't know. The
fairy day cage part is interesting because we certainly have
facilities that like you know, clean rooms and such and
like things that are like so like isolated, and they
(31:59):
would be trouble by normal surveillance mechanisms. So I don't know,
it's again today's kind of thought experiment day. Yeah, well
it kind of always is, but more so than usual.
Even in the episode that we just recorded, which will
be coming out next week.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
I believe time is so weird.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
It is weird, especially when we do things kind of
in reverse because we're recording this listener mail a day
later than we normally do.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Peak behind the curtain also before we move on, because
I know we got to get to an ad break
and I have something I'm very excited.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
To pitch to you.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
If you are if you have any awareness of attempts
at preventative measures for something like you said, noel has
not been proven to exist, we want to do conspiracydiheartradio
dot com. If you are operating an asset that again
(32:52):
just thought experiment. If you're operating an asset that has
some sort of extraordinary ability, you don't want the big
telekinetics you want. You want someone if telekinesis existed. You
want someone who could just close an artery by looking.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
At that right, you know, and then you'd never be
able to trace it back to anything you want talking about.
Or maybe we I think we did an intro to
a classic Ridiculous History episode about arsenic the idea of
like you know, at the time, it was the perfect
weapon because it was odorless, colorless, and utterly untraceable, at
least at the with the technology of the time. But
you I didn't even think about that. Then it wouldn't
(33:31):
be like like the boys, you know, exploding someone ahead.
It would be like something where you would never know
what had happened, cause it just or just causing someone's
heart to stop.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Right, That's that's the dream, right, That's why, uh, that's
why the British loved the what they call it inheritance powder.
That's a good that that's part of it. And if
there is an ability to delve into someone's mind, like
(34:03):
use telepathy to extract information. Again, if something like that existed,
then that would mean there was some sort of interchange
of energy and information between those two brains. If that
would be the case, then there would logically be a
way to interfere with that passage, right with that process
(34:26):
of back and forth. None of this is proven to exist.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
To there's no evidence of any of this in like
what we've seen work in terms of history. Like it's
just again to keep it simple, stupid, like the Russians
are using bots and like internet you know, tactics to
quote unquote rig elections or to like change public perception
they're using. You know, AI is more of concern to
(34:54):
me than psychic abilities. You know, we need to figure
out how to guard against that stuff. Work behind the
ape on that.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Yeah, because a lot of the things that we're considered
to be supernatural or psychic are now being created via technology.
They're the modeling systems that are capable of predicting behavior,
get very close to foretelling the future. These same systems
(35:22):
can be applied and are being applied to human beings
to predict your own behavior. Because every person is their
own country, right, we can model this stuff in that case.
And I love that you bring this up. In that case, Joe,
the preventative measure for weaponized esp on the ground, in
(35:46):
a microcosm like in your life right now, the preventative
measure is not to participate online.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, I mean the Internet
is its own kind of weird oracle, and especially once
you start figuring the AI in, because it all comes
down to again, the psychology of the intuition question we
were talking about earlier, Like, all this stuff is out
there and again and I came out, you know, as
believing to some degree in some form of extrasensory perception
(36:17):
beyond just intuition. I don't know what it is, just
like I say, I don't necessarily believe in a Christian God,
but I don't believe in nothing. I just don't know
what to call it. And I'm holding out hope that
there is something out there beyond you know, what we
know in the universe and in the afterlife and what
have you. But I just don't know what to call it.
(36:38):
And I feel the very same way about this kind
of stuff. But I think our kind of coming full
circle around to it, to AI and technology and the
Internet being its own like exponentially dangerous form of this
kind of stuff is absolutely accurate.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
And as as any student of the human condition understand,
people don't know most things. Human civilization overall does not
know most stuff, and that is a fact that needs
to be acknowledged and addressed. Speaking of things we don't know,
(37:17):
we're going to pause for a word from our sponsor.
We're going to return with a letter from home, which
is Noel spoiler, it's a weird one. I'm very interested
in your thoughts, very interested in everybody else's thoughts. And
(37:39):
we've returned. Okay, so this is a little bit different.
It's a conversation I've been having over or a series
of months now with various experts in various fields, veterans, biologists,
oceanographers as well. Riddle me this, what is the most
(38:05):
dangerous large non human animal? We're building a leader board
and we're sept to be cleangerious.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
I mean, shark. Trump won't stop talking about sharks.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Well, I think he saw one or something.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
What is he saying? I have I've been hearing chatter
about him talking about great white sharks, But what exactly
is the thing that he keeps saying about sharks?
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Oh, he's amazed by them, you know how like when
you see a kid have their first day at the
zoo and they just won't shut up about pandas or whatever.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Trump just found out about sharks.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
He said he would prefer to be electrocuted instead of
eaten by a shark.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Why are the where does that equivalency come from?
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Like?
Speaker 2 (38:50):
How are those the two things you're weighing?
Speaker 3 (38:52):
We who are we to judge? We do a lot
of thought experiments here. That's true, fair enough, but he
said in a speech in Grand Rapids, Michigan recently, he said,
if I'm in a boat and it's all electric and
it starts to sink, I asked the guy, do you
get electrocuted sitting over this? And then I say, and
(39:14):
I don't think there's anything wrong with this, because it's
an analogy. If there's a shark about ten yards away,
do I get electrocuted? Or do I go with the shark?
Speaker 2 (39:24):
I would told shark battery conundrum real? What is it
a kobayashima room?
Speaker 3 (39:31):
There is no question for the ages.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yeah, I think you can probably escape that. I don't
think the battery would electrify the entire ocean or whatever. Like,
I think you irrelevant. Agreed, though, shark's equal scary and
they will eat your ass.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Shark attacks are such a it's like the old John
mulaney joke about quicksand quicksand is way less of a
threat in your adult life than it seems when you're
a k and sharks are an easily avoidable threat.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
You earlier asked me in a previous I think it
was strange news or maybe an episode. We're talking about this.
You straight up asked me whether you thought whether I
was confident that I can fight a shark.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Yeah, PvP is the term we've been using TVP Yes, yeah,
you think, yeah, And we didn't have an Australian listener
right in with incredulity about your ability to do so
with a kangaroo.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Yeah, look, folks, I understand the skepticism, but youet thumbs,
you got agility. Kangaroos are forward moving threats that make sideways.
They can do you know, they could do stuff if
they were, but they're not boxers.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
I don't want to hurt one. I just think it's.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
You're gonna have to get your hands dirty if you're
in the ring.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
You can't just bob And I'm just saying if you're
in a situation.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
But I believe your point about the shark was it
would you mean a little bit of a handicap? I
need to not be fully immersed right.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Right, right right, So we in this discourse, so we
want to hear from you, folks. We differentiated on our
leader boards between maritime animals and surface animals. So nol.
The question on everybody's mind right now is to you
(41:33):
you in particular, sir, what is one of the most
dangerous surface animals? Well, it's the human being then, I
mean not non human, non human.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
The most dangerous game. I don't know. Bears are pretty gnarly. Yeah,
they'll they'll there, they'll rip you up.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
I never believed that Daily cropic story.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Yeah, oh what what was the Davy croc?
Speaker 3 (41:59):
Oh? Yeah, he killed a bar with.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Threes? I don't know. I hes some when he was
only three, which that's definitely three year olds. Have you
seen them? They're useless, they can't do it.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
Wow, hot takes uh Yeah, but you know, like I've
been talking about this on Instagram, Twitter, various social media platforms,
hanging out with people because I'm fun at parties obviously,
and one of the questions that came up was about
you man. People were asking me which bird Noel thinks
(42:36):
is the most dangerous surface animal. They just assumed that
it would be about They assumed that you would go bird, Well, I.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Wouldn't know, And now that's it's the most terrifying to
me personally. It would be the casuary, you know, the
velociraptor esque dinosaur remnant, you know, walks on two legs
and will disembalue you with its long you know, razor
sharp who wouldn't be scared of nothing. But well, the
Internet says that it's the hippopotamus.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
Well, the hippo has the highest kill count, but the
hippo is also extremely stupid.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Yeah, and they're not. They're they're also I don't know,
maybe I guess are we talking about most likely encounter
you know you definitely, yeah, killing five hundred people a
year in Africa. I guess it's because they're just aggressive
and they just tend to get freaked out really easily
and kind of like just you know.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
They have poor eyesight. Oh yeah, and they're real they're
real chonkers. It's similar to the problem of the rhinoceros,
but the hippo is more dangerous. Uh. The the way
we were thinking about the leaderboard is the idea of
which animal could whip every other animal. So like, could
a tiger fight a hippo, for example, a Siberian tiger
(43:53):
would it?
Speaker 2 (43:54):
No, it would, yeah, I would, it would eat it.
I think it would.
Speaker 5 (43:56):
I mean hippos are aren't aren't They picked off? Usually
like because they're so stupid in their eyesight's so bad,
like guard hippos often you know, killed by other predatory
and they're chonkers.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
Though, is the thing like, uh, gators won't or crocodiles right,
large reptiles don't usually mess with the hippo.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
They're just too formidable, just too really. Dogs with rabies
kill fifty nine thousand people per year. Wow, just from
BBC Science Focused. I don't think this is bullshit. Snakes
one hundred and thirty eight thousand humans a year. This
is you know, because again we're talking about much broader
categories of animal now rather than just like a particular
type you know, hippo right right, Yeah, Snakes is number
(44:39):
three according to this list. Mosquitoes we forgot about mosquitoes. Well,
they're not large disease Okay, they.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
Have a huge like they have a huge skill count
in that they are the one of the most most
murderous life forms toward humans.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Humans is number two though, four hundred thousand deaths per year.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
Get it together, guys.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Number one as one hundred and thirty eight thousand dogs
with rabies not large, I guess medium size fifty nine
k a year. Something called assassin bugs gozas bugs spread.
They're primary spreaders of the deadly chagas disease. It's a
bloodsucking predator and found in Central and South America. The
(45:21):
Choggas disease potentially fatal and is transmitted through an assassin
bug bite or by consumption of cold food or drink
that has been infected by the incense insect and or
its feces, which carries the protozoan trippan tripanosoma cruisy also
known as T cruzy. It's ta cruisy less scary sounding.
(45:42):
Scorpions are a big killer. Crocodiles a thousand. I think
those are what are we talking when we say large though?
Do we have a threshold for that? I think we
need a little bit more data around the data points.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Yeah, this is great. This is where we need help
from our fellow conspiracy realist. Also, quick point of correction,
hippos do use their eyesight. Rhinos are the ones that
are tragically near sighted. Hippos aren't intelligent. Just to be clear,
they're not very smart, but they primarily use their hearing
(46:17):
when they're underwater and when they get out of the water,
they're looking around like where's the watermelon? Or who do
I bite? At this point, I love your question about
our threshold. We've got to figure this out. We need
your help, fellow conspiracy realists join us for the most
Dangerous Animal leader board. We've got excellent discourse going on
(46:42):
on Twitter about this. No, you raise fantastic points there.
I think that's our most immediate question. What is the
threshold for quote unquote large animal? Tell us all about it,
and also if you have if you have provable psychic
power or a proven means of preventing weaponized psychic powers,
(47:05):
we want to hear from you. We try to be
easy to find online.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Or hit us up via the psychic plane.
Speaker 3 (47:11):
There is get too many.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
I saw the TV glow fans out there. You can
find us however on the Internet if that's your bag
at the handle conspiracy stuff where we exist. On to
Ben's point, x fka Twitter. You know, I actually saw
a staff the other day, Ben that like ninety percent
of the media still refers to x as X formerly
known as Twitter. You're by making it one of the
least successful rebrands in the history of rebrands, just putting
(47:37):
that out there because we're one of them. Yeah, that's
also conspiracy stuff. On Facebook. We have our Here's where
it Gets Crazy Facebook group where you can get in
on the conversation and on youtubehere. We have video content
coming at you on the regular on Instagram and TikTok. However,
we are Conspiracy Stuff Show.
Speaker 3 (47:52):
You can also give us a phone call on a
telephonic device. The number is one eight three three stdyk.
When you call in, you will hear a hopefully familiar
voice and then a peep like so pep After that beep,
that's sort of your gunshot. At the beginning of the race,
you have three minutes. Those three minutes are yours. Tell
(48:14):
us what's on your mind. Tell us the name you
would like to be referred to. Let us know if
we can use your name and or message on the air.
Most importantly, do not censor yourself. One of the best
ways to contact us as a group is also email.
Give us the links, give us the pictures, take us
to the edge of the rabbit hole, and we will
(48:35):
do the rest. Just drop us a line at our
good old fashioned email address.
Speaker 6 (48:39):
Where we are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know, a
production of Iheartrading.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hello and welcome back to the show. My name is Noel.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Our colleague Matt is on Skibbity Adventure and will be
returning soon. They call me Ben. We're joined as always
with our super producer Paul mission controlled decands. Most importantly,
you are you. You are here. That makes this the
stuff they don't want you to know, Noel, it is
one of our favorite evenings of the week.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
It is bam. Sorry, I do have to say in
the spirit of strange news which came before you mentioned Skibbitty,
and I.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Did just want to point out what I thought was a.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Joke, strange news story, like a fake news story, was
in fact true. Michael Bay is launching a cinematic intelevisial universe.
I honestly, I mean I feel like I'm maybe more
in the know than a lot of millennials. I thought
Skimmity Toilet was just like one viral video. It's apparently
(01:20):
a whole universe of this, like unreal Engine kind of
dated video game engine generated content of this dystopian kind
of universe that has been memed of course and turned
into like games on Roadblocks and all of these other platforms.
And Michael Bay, of all people, is developing this into
(01:42):
a whole world, and I think it's the end. Times
are nine.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
My friend, our buddies Jack and Miles over at the
Daily Zeitgeist hipped me to that story, and I thought
they were just riffing with each other in their typical
dry humor. Also, skibbity is a thing Jack O'Brien made up.
What do you mean, like parallel thinking made up? No,
(02:10):
he completely manufactured the whole thing. No, yah, yeah he did.
And gas lighting is also a thing he made up.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Oh that's what you're doing. See I get it. Okay,
got it, Consider me, consider my consider my gas lit
As the kids say, not even know if they say
that anymore? What do the kids say? Let's talk to
some kids in the form of listener mail.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
All right, let's get into it, because we are going
to hear some fantastic messages from our fellow conspiracy realists
and Noel. There's an email that I think really spoke
to both of us. I can't wait to I can't
wait to hear this.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
One on air. Well, I can't remember exactly which segment
it took place, and espe we talk about a lot,
but Matt, I believe brought a story about a true
crime event, you know, I believe either a murder, that
some amount of the detective work was leaning on a
dream or something like that, or like some purported psychic abilities.
(03:23):
And then we got into the whole discussion of like
is psych art psychic ability is real. It's in the
original cold open of the video and the podcast, you know,
from psychic powers to the paranormal, all of that good stuff.
So it is kind of red meat for a show
like this, But I was pretty surprised when I came
out and said that I do think psychic phenomenon is real.
And Matt was much more skeptical.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
He's skeptical about the weirdest things, which is part of why.
But also what a genius this guy, our colleague, Matt.
We have new chumps in the squad. I was interested
in this too, and I think a lot of us
playing along at home felt called to the concept of
(04:09):
esp and intuition. We know that in the past law
enforcement has used the idea of psychic discovery as a
way to get around, you know, certain legal restrictions. But also,
(04:31):
you know, my family's past. Man, I come from a
place where people genuinely do believe that they practice psychic powers.
And to your earlier point, we have spent years exploring
the line between intuition and esp.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah, and not to you know, delay the message too
much longer. But what also came up in that discussion,
you know, around Matt's story was an interview we did
with Russell targ years ago, who has a book called
Third Eye Spies about a literal program the CIA had
of this guy helped design very smart dude from MIT
(05:15):
to supposedly help train psychic spies, you know, to be
able to astrally project to locations where victims are being
held or kidnapping or murder you know, evidence or bodies
or what have you. And talking to him really turned
a corner from me because this is like a really
learned individual who really straddles the kind of line between
(05:39):
science and the supernatural. And I'm pretty sure that this
has been discussed outside of our crew, but dude clearly
seemed to be the inspiration for Egon Spangler in the
Ghostbusters because I think you know. Ghostbusters, of course a
comedy movie with some horror elements. It is a very
interesting exploration of that line between science and the occult
(06:02):
and supernatural stuff. So now moving on to the letter
from one of my favorite nicknames of recent memory, our
borious master of plants. Yes, is very elden ring or
something like. I don't know exactly what it is, but
it has a great mouthfeel to it. And here we go,
ohy gents, our bore is here master of plants. I
(06:23):
inserted that regarding the woman whose dream led the police
to the murder victim. My thinking on such matters is
as follows. I fully believe in phenomena like prescient dreams,
but I don't think there's anything supernatural involved our subcon Yeah,
and she does. Our subconscious minds are orders of magnitude
(06:44):
all caps more powerful than we realize, constantly compelling and
connecting thousands of data points in ways we couldn't possibly
imagine or accept. I like the computer analogy, our subconscious
minds processors aren't down with piloting our meat machines, which
is like an industrial band name for the ages instead
(07:07):
running in the background performing millions of tiny calculations we
know nothing about. When something comes together, it makes sense
that it would be presented via a subconscious process like dreaming.
So that woman subconsciously absorbed thousands of tiny clues from
people and situations around her, which eventually added up to
the location of the bodies. Mannerism smells tiny visuals nearby
(07:31):
people's conversations she wasn't listening to. Who knows, But how
many times have you heard stories like I dreamed of
someone I hadn't seen in years and randomly ran into
them the next day. The majority of people, if they're honest,
would probably tell you they've had similar experiences, And I
think a lot of that comes down to the power
of the subconscious mind. Something to think about when you
(07:52):
can spare the bandwidth. Thanks Jens, I hope you know
that what you do has a real impact on people's
lives and mental states. That's very positive, even when you're
talking about frightening things. I don't know how you manage
that exactly, but keep it up, Arboreous Master of plants, Ben,
I mean not to be redundant. We've certainly talked about
various aspects of this, you know, over the many years
(08:14):
we've been doing the show, but a couple of things
stand out. I think Arboreus laid it out beautifully in
terms of like what is the line between psychic abilities
and intuition? I recently, I think we both did. We
may be going to see it together for a second time.
Saw the horror movie Long Legs, and there's a character
who's an FBI agent who has these intuitions or these
(08:37):
these premonitions, with the line where her boss is like, well,
being half psychics better than nothing, and then said, how
about we just call it? How about how about we
just call you highly intuitive? And she she says that's fair.
And I think that's really interesting. But I also know
that we have problems sometimes in court cases with eyewitness accounts.
(08:59):
So how do these things that up, Like if we're
it all depends on the person, doesn't it? Like we
all of us have these subconscious things that we're picking
up on. Some people are just better at interpreting the
data accurately with others because we know all of these
things can also add up to stories we tell ourselves
to complete fabrications.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Right, Yeah, I think that's a vary, astute, observational, and
our boy is want to thank you in specific for,
as we said, laying this out in such a perfect way.
We don't want to be redundant. This is important. If
(09:38):
you are looking for a book to teach you more
about intuition, please please please read The Gift of Fear
by Gavin de Becker. We've mentioned it in the past.
It came out in nineteen ninety seven, so I guess
it's relatively new in the grand scheme. But the idea
(10:00):
here is this guy de Becker looked through the notion
of intuition, the idea that you have a hunch, like Noel,
for instance, have you ever met someone and had a
really good or really bad vibe off them that you
couldn't explain consciously?
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Bro Vibes are currency, my friend. I mean seriously, like,
if you can't, if you don't have the ability to
kind of discern that from somebody, then you're gonna be
left in the dust a lot of times, or it's
gonna be a lot easier people to take advantage of you,
because I mean, if you don't kind of get a
(10:40):
general sense of someone's authenticity, you know, from the moment
you kind of meet them, then that things might not
go super well for you, you know, in terms of
you know, the ability for people to deceive you. Right.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah, And this sensitivity, this sensitivity is no less magical
when we understand it, right, It's still brilliant stuff. A
lot of these unconscious cues you're describing a boreas are
part of the daily interaction of humans with their environment
(11:18):
and with other life forms. One thing that may be
of particular interest to a lot of us listening tonight
would be the concept of spell. You have vestigial pheromone
receptors in your body if you are human, and sometimes
that can explain why you do or do not vibe
(11:40):
with another person. You can learn more about the use
of intuition as seen through the framework of psychic powers
in excellent documentaries like Vibes starring Jeff Goldbloom and Cyndi Laverer.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
It is a fabulous work of investigative journalism. Yeah, no,
it's good. But seriously, though, I mean, when I say
vibes are currency, I think I was. I was saying
that coming from a lot of the coverage around the
political climate or the race right now and how people
were saying that JD jb Vance just has like no
(12:18):
riz and just his vibes aire is instantly like trash.
And we are playing a ViBe's game, a vibes based
game where if someone comes off as insincere, immediately you're
like not in their corner. And the thing is, you
can be really good at feigning sincerity as well. And
(12:39):
like tricking people's vibe sensors, you know, that is also
a thing, but in general, if someone's just really ham
fisted at it, it's gonna trip people's spidy senses in
that way. And I love that you mentioned the smell
angle because we often talk too about like what our
equipment is as human beings, and like, you know, dogs,
there's always the old trope in the movies when the
(13:01):
bad guy comes into the house and the dog. The
victim is clueless about his intention, but the dog knows
what's up. And you know, while dogs maybe can't speak
to us, it's very clear that they have equipment more
finely tuned that are picking up. We even talked about spectrum,
like the visual spectrum where they can maybe even see
(13:21):
other dimensions or something like that, right, like and the
idea of a color spectrum and things that transcend you know,
this physical plane, I guess.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Or at least the things that the humans can observe, right,
infrared light, for instance, that's that's what Yeah, sorry, thank
you Ben. No, no, it's perfect. There's also Look, what
this teaches us is that if we are thinking critically
about the concept of hunches or intuition or psychic powers,
(13:53):
whatever you want to call it, we do know that
the information the human brain thinks about, like the metacognition
when you think about why do I like or not
like a person that is coming to you in an
incredibly digested, preanalyzed form from your subconscious. Your subconscious, the
(14:20):
part of your brain that you don't really speak to,
it is continually evaluating innumerable variables and factors. You might think,
for instance, oh, this person's energy is really clicking with me,
and you have to walk uphill cognitively to figure out
(14:46):
why you have made that assumption. You are processing information
that another part of you has delivered to you, sort
of wrapped up and assembled.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
You know, it's almost like a packet of data, like
a data stream coming into a computer over a network.
It's all about like parsing it out and like separating
the noise from like the actual good packets.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Yeah, exactly. So the concept of dreams is fascinating as well,
because one of the best technological comparisons would be defragging
a hard drive. That's what the human brain does when
it sleeps, right, yes, ondred percent.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
But there are like different, I guess schools of thought
behind that, even where it's like do dreams mean anything?
You know, there's like Freudian thought or whatever, and that
kind of you know, philosophy I guess behind it. I mean,
there's a science to it, I suppose, but it is
all kind of like theory, you know, like is it
really your subconscious delivering important stuff to you? Or is
(15:46):
it just kind of nonsense, fragmented gobbledegook, you know, Like
I had a dream last night that I went on
a laundry stealing caper, like I robbed a lotmat of
other people's clothes with the cast of all that the
nineteen nineties children's sketch show, and then we ended up
(16:08):
going on a rampage and being chased by the police
through like this suburban neighborhood and like some Northwestern kind
of like place, and then I was arrested by a
police officer who was played by Oh gosh, who's the
guy that was the ladies man on SNL.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Oh No, that guy.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, and he I had a bag of weed on
me and he said I was in a part of
New York where that wasn't legal and he took it.
And then but then one of the guys from all that,
Danny Tamberelli, Little Pete from Pete and Pete, he said, no,
that's mine, it wasn't his. Oh, and he got me
off with Tim Meadows. Yeah. But it's like, what is that?
What is that possibly trying to tell me? If it's
(16:50):
anything or is that just the product of a maybe
not rested enough mind.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
It's it's telling us.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
You know, the defrat argument is interesting, and I agree
with you, aarborious master of plants, that the subconscious mind
is doing a lot of work behind the scenes. Right.
So when we're always very careful when we wrestle with
the concept of psychic abilities, right because it gets a
(17:25):
bad rap. There are a lot of hoaxters out.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
There taking advantage of people cold readers on those TV shows,
or they're trying to speak to people's deceased relatives, and
it's all full flammed and absolutely taking advantage of people's emotions.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Yes, exactly, leveraging those weaponizing them even But here's here's
the thing, and we're when we say this what you're
going to hear next, we know it's going to speak
to a lot of us at home right now, personally.
People who genuinely experience what we could call strong intuition
(18:06):
if we're being diplomatic. Those people are not going to
be your Madam Bell's. Those people are not going to
do any kind of call in line or publish a
book that they want you to buy or make you
pay to talk to them. Those people are typically, and
this is just my experience, they're typically going to have
(18:31):
a number of discreete moments that are inexplicable to them, epiphanies, revelations.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
They might not even know what their abilities are. They
might have explained them away, or like live their whole
life feeling as so it's a burden or some kind
of curse, you know.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yeah, they wake up and they decide they shouldn't get
on the plane right or they find themselves for some
reason unable perhaps to leave their home to go to
their job, and then later there's a massive car accident
or an explosion. Now, how do we explain this? I
(19:12):
can tell you that in most cases of which I
am aware, most cases that I can prove of intuition,
people are very afraid of being ridiculed or being seen
as a wing nut. So there is a huge burden
of trust that has to exist for someone to tell you, Hey,
(19:36):
I have information about a thing that might apply to you,
and I am trusting you to not tell other people.
But just so you know, you know, even small stuff.
I was recently, this is big in my family. Like
I recently, I've got some friends moving out to Los
Angeles and I had to tell them that the second
(20:00):
house they look at is bad. Okay, I'm serious, you know,
And it's weird to say that on air.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
So would you call that intuition or would you call
that like something extra?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Well, I just know the second house is a bad one.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Man. Okay. That reminds me that, I mean, that reminds me.
There's a scene again, there's no I'm not I don't
want to spoil anything, but there is a scene in
Long Legs where a character that knows something about a
house without having the right to know it, you know,
without having necessarily received any intel or any like, you know,
actionable data or evidence. It's just a feeling. Oh, I
(20:39):
know what I was gonna say too. Is a lot
of times. That's why in movies you always see the
person like, but you gotta listen to me, you gotta
listen to me. They're gonna the building's gonna blow up.
Nobody believes them, and they look like a crazy person
until the thing happens, you know.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Right, yeah, just like you said, uh and before we
before he pause and move on. But one thing that's
very important that you just brought up NOL is the
idea of known unknowns and unknown unknowns. Not to sound
too much like a certain politician, but the concept here is. Look,
(21:17):
if you ground a plane because you know the plane
will crash, and the plane therefore does not crash because
you kept it on the ground, you are in a
lose lose situation. Right, You've saved lives, but you look
like a crazy person because you can't prove the plane
(21:37):
would have crashed.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Wow, And if the final Destination franchise has anything to
be believed, you know death's coming for you. In an
elaborate Rube Goldberg fashion sooner or later? So is it
really just kind of like delaying the inevitable? Now I'm joking,
but I think all of this stuff is absolutely you know,
food for thought. Let's take a quick break. Thank you
Rborius by the way for having both a delightful nickname
(22:01):
and a great email for us to discuss. We're going
to be right back with some more listener mail, and.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
We have returned. We're going to go to the phone
lines here. This is a nice follow up to our
earlier conversation. Joe asked a question that I would love
your opinion on.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Here we go.
Speaker 4 (22:29):
Hey, guys, it's Joe here from you know we should
rather not say. Was just listening to that by episode
and was also watching the documentary and the thought came
to me, the CIA is declassifying all these documents and
(22:52):
allowing people to have this knowledge of remote viewing and
the like of psychic abilities. Don't you think they have
some preventative measures for that already in place? So if
the general public was to achieve set abilities, they have
(23:16):
the proper protection. I don't know, it seems like they
wouldn't just let us know that without you know, having
some proper caution. I don't know. It's something to think about.
Love you guys, keep it up. You know my name
and this message and whatever you need to Thanks guys,
(23:41):
all right.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
I knew this would be of interest to you, but absolutely,
I mean it's it's perfect counterpoint to to what we
just were talking about.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
And I think the Russell Target interview comes up yet
again because we know the CIA had a program to
train spies that was declassified or whatever led Target to
be able to talk about it, but of course they
would have to have countermeasures, you know. And we also
know that there are other countries that also have secret
(24:09):
spy type programs or I'm sorry, psychic spy type program right.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Right right, most particularly the ussr UH and during the
Cold War. This first off, Joe, what a fantastic question.
The idea of counter measures against weaponized esp as we
established earlier, we could we could use esp and intuition
(24:37):
as synonyms right in practice, So is there a way
to to protect against the weaponization of enemy intuition? What
a weird sentence to say, you know, uh, this run
you know what this reminds me of not just not
(24:58):
just Targ Russell, Targ who is a super cool guy.
But it also reminds me of our earlier episode on
the concept of timfoil.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Hats sure protecting our you know, shielding us from potential infiltration,
like directly into our our minds, and God, man, give
me not to to derail too far from us. But
it makes me think too of like all of the
implant technology that is now kind of becoming much more
of a reality, and the idea of like our brains
(25:30):
being able to literally be hacked. So that's not exactly
esp but it's almost more terrifying and very real. So
whatever your your thoughts on extrasensory perception and you know,
psychic powers might be. But I don't know, Ben, do
we have any evidence of any counter intelligence programs designed
(25:51):
to protect against these sorts of things or is it
more just sort of like space race type stuff where
we have to like, you know, keep up with the
John with the you know, what's a good Russian name?
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Uh, the the politically incorrect version would be keep up
with the Ivans. There you go, is how they would
have said it in World War Two and the Cold War. Look,
we know there was provably some I would say dabbling
in this idea of protecting protecting the information in an
(26:26):
asset's mind. Uh, and this doesn't quite reach the level
of like, okay, So what what Joe was asking about,
basically is the Magneto helmet. If you're a fan of
comic books, if you're if you're a Marvel nerd, then
you know that the reason Magneto wears his special helmet
(26:48):
is because it prevents telepaths from being able to mess
with his mind. Right exactly, yeah, right, So it's.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
The idea is to have control of a mind that powerful,
that already contains, you know, that has the ability to
literally make anybody do anything, that would be you know,
tantamount to handing over the launch codes to the naming.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
And I love that you're saying that because in this story,
both or in the lore, both Charles Xavier and Eric
Lyncher Magneto, they are both essentially walking weapons of mass destruction, right,
and controlling that kind of mind could lead to catastrophic
(27:31):
existential threats. So what we do see, or what we
did see at least during the Cold War, was early
research that I don't know, it was kind of spaghetti
at the wall stuff. Early research in the Soviet era
(27:52):
about the concept of using certain materials to build like
a psychic Faraday cage. You know, so if Faraday cage
is a real thing, it will prevent certain types of
energy from penetrating a barrier. So back in earlier evenings,
(28:16):
the Soviet government did fund research into not just the
concept of astro projection. Here in the US, we had
Stargate project, we had Project Start.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Absolutely. At the same time the Soviets were conducting this
kind of research, they were also working to figure out
how to defend against this kind of thing. Now, for
a lot of us more skeptical folks in the crowd,
this all sounds very woo woo, you know, made up stuff.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Well, because to build a device like this would kind
of require a much clearer understanding of how these things work. Then,
I would argue any and scientific I mean, the scientific
community barely acknowledges that this stuff exists. So how would
you like use science to build something to protect against
something that scientists don't believe is real? I don't know.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Yeah, that's a great point. Also, further, if we're just
being hard nosed about this, why would you evolve a
countermeasure in addition to countermeasures that you already know work.
For instance, why would you use polonium on someone who
(29:33):
lives on the third story of a building with some
really nice windows.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Yeah, you don't bring polonium to a window fight. Never
do it, that's true, that's aol and no promise we
won't bring polonium to the window fight.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
But but you see what I'm saying, Like the question here.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Path of least, there's a there's a path of less
resistance at the very least, right.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The acronym that is very popular here
in the West is kiss keep it simple, stupid, So
we don't want complicated Rube Goldberg esque attempts at solving something.
If there was and this has not been proven, but
(30:18):
if there was, if we're just freestyling, if there was
some sort of weaponized psychic ability, then the immediate move
would be to contain it, and if someone else controls it,
to eradicate. And if you're eradicating it, then you're not
(30:39):
going to make some kind of fancy you know, what's
that Stranger Things solution to it type device or what right,
You're just going to neutralize them with full prejudice.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Yeah, and then you know, an asset like that would
be as accessible for that type of of let's call
it operation as any other political figure would be, you know,
in terms of protection, in terms of isolation, siloing or
all of that good stuff. And I guess what we're
talking about here too is maybe because you know, obviously
(31:14):
regular old run of the mill ESP would be dangerous
in terms of the ability to extract intelligence, to distract
you know, as a surveillance right. But I think what
we also might be talking about is going a little
further into like hardcore telekinesis stabilities you know, to like
use like Professor X could or magneto it could literally
lift a building off the ground and smash it into
(31:37):
you know, another building, or like use powers of their
mind to act as weapons in and of themselves. So
that to me maybe would be I don't know. The
fairy day cage part is interesting because we certainly have
facilities that like you know, clean rooms and such and
like things that are like so like isolated, and they
(31:59):
would be trouble by normal surveillance mechanisms. So I don't know,
it's again today's kind of thought experiment day. Yeah, well
it kind of always is, but more so than usual.
Even in the episode that we just recorded, which will
be coming out next week.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
I believe time is so weird.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
It is weird, especially when we do things kind of
in reverse because we're recording this listener mail a day
later than we normally do.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Peak behind the curtain also before we move on, because
I know we got to get to an ad break
and I have something I'm very excited.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
To pitch to you.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
If you are if you have any awareness of attempts
at preventative measures for something like you said, noel has
not been proven to exist, we want to do conspiracydiheartradio
dot com. If you are operating an asset that again
(32:52):
just thought experiment. If you're operating an asset that has
some sort of extraordinary ability, you don't want the big
telekinetics you want. You want someone if telekinesis existed. You
want someone who could just close an artery by looking.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
At that right, you know, and then you'd never be
able to trace it back to anything you want talking about.
Or maybe we I think we did an intro to
a classic Ridiculous History episode about arsenic the idea of
like you know, at the time, it was the perfect
weapon because it was odorless, colorless, and utterly untraceable, at
least at the with the technology of the time. But
you I didn't even think about that. Then it wouldn't
(33:31):
be like like the boys, you know, exploding someone ahead.
It would be like something where you would never know
what had happened, cause it just or just causing someone's
heart to stop.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Right, That's that's the dream, right, That's why, uh, that's
why the British loved the what they call it inheritance powder.
That's a good that that's part of it. And if
there is an ability to delve into someone's mind, like
(34:03):
use telepathy to extract information. Again, if something like that existed,
then that would mean there was some sort of interchange
of energy and information between those two brains. If that
would be the case, then there would logically be a
way to interfere with that passage, right with that process
(34:26):
of back and forth. None of this is proven to exist.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
To there's no evidence of any of this in like
what we've seen work in terms of history. Like it's
just again to keep it simple, stupid, like the Russians
are using bots and like internet you know, tactics to
quote unquote rig elections or to like change public perception
they're using. You know, AI is more of concern to
(34:54):
me than psychic abilities. You know, we need to figure
out how to guard against that stuff. Work behind the
ape on that.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Yeah, because a lot of the things that we're considered
to be supernatural or psychic are now being created via technology.
They're the modeling systems that are capable of predicting behavior,
get very close to foretelling the future. These same systems
(35:22):
can be applied and are being applied to human beings
to predict your own behavior. Because every person is their
own country, right, we can model this stuff in that case.
And I love that you bring this up. In that case, Joe,
the preventative measure for weaponized esp on the ground, in
(35:46):
a microcosm like in your life right now, the preventative
measure is not to participate online.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, I mean the Internet
is its own kind of weird oracle, and especially once
you start figuring the AI in, because it all comes
down to again, the psychology of the intuition question we
were talking about earlier, Like, all this stuff is out
there and again and I came out, you know, as
believing to some degree in some form of extrasensory perception
(36:17):
beyond just intuition. I don't know what it is, just
like I say, I don't necessarily believe in a Christian God,
but I don't believe in nothing. I just don't know
what to call it. And I'm holding out hope that
there is something out there beyond you know, what we
know in the universe and in the afterlife and what
have you. But I just don't know what to call it.
(36:38):
And I feel the very same way about this kind
of stuff. But I think our kind of coming full
circle around to it, to AI and technology and the
Internet being its own like exponentially dangerous form of this
kind of stuff is absolutely accurate.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
And as as any student of the human condition understand,
people don't know most things. Human civilization overall does not
know most stuff, and that is a fact that needs
to be acknowledged and addressed. Speaking of things we don't know,
(37:17):
we're going to pause for a word from our sponsor.
We're going to return with a letter from home, which
is Noel spoiler, it's a weird one. I'm very interested
in your thoughts, very interested in everybody else's thoughts. And
(37:39):
we've returned. Okay, so this is a little bit different.
It's a conversation I've been having over or a series
of months now with various experts in various fields, veterans, biologists,
oceanographers as well. Riddle me this, what is the most
(38:05):
dangerous large non human animal? We're building a leader board
and we're sept to be cleangerious.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
I mean, shark. Trump won't stop talking about sharks.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Well, I think he saw one or something.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
What is he saying? I have I've been hearing chatter
about him talking about great white sharks, But what exactly
is the thing that he keeps saying about sharks?
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Oh, he's amazed by them, you know how like when
you see a kid have their first day at the
zoo and they just won't shut up about pandas or whatever.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Trump just found out about sharks.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
He said he would prefer to be electrocuted instead of
eaten by a shark.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Why are the where does that equivalency come from?
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Like?
Speaker 2 (38:50):
How are those the two things you're weighing?
Speaker 3 (38:52):
We who are we to judge? We do a lot
of thought experiments here. That's true, fair enough, but he
said in a speech in Grand Rapids, Michigan recently, he said,
if I'm in a boat and it's all electric and
it starts to sink, I asked the guy, do you
get electrocuted sitting over this? And then I say, and
(39:14):
I don't think there's anything wrong with this, because it's
an analogy. If there's a shark about ten yards away,
do I get electrocuted? Or do I go with the shark?
Speaker 2 (39:24):
I would told shark battery conundrum real? What is it
a kobayashima room?
Speaker 3 (39:31):
There is no question for the ages.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yeah, I think you can probably escape that. I don't
think the battery would electrify the entire ocean or whatever. Like,
I think you irrelevant. Agreed, though, shark's equal scary and
they will eat your ass.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
Shark attacks are such a it's like the old John
mulaney joke about quicksand quicksand is way less of a
threat in your adult life than it seems when you're
a k and sharks are an easily avoidable threat.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
You earlier asked me in a previous I think it
was strange news or maybe an episode. We're talking about this.
You straight up asked me whether you thought whether I
was confident that I can fight a shark.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Yeah, PvP is the term we've been using TVP Yes, yeah,
you think, yeah, And we didn't have an Australian listener
right in with incredulity about your ability to do so
with a kangaroo.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Yeah, look, folks, I understand the skepticism, but youet thumbs,
you got agility. Kangaroos are forward moving threats that make sideways.
They can do you know, they could do stuff if
they were, but they're not boxers.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
I don't want to hurt one. I just think it's.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
You're gonna have to get your hands dirty if you're
in the ring.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
You can't just bob And I'm just saying if you're
in a situation.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
But I believe your point about the shark was it
would you mean a little bit of a handicap? I
need to not be fully immersed right.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Right, right right, So we in this discourse, so we
want to hear from you, folks. We differentiated on our
leader boards between maritime animals and surface animals. So nol.
The question on everybody's mind right now is to you
(41:33):
you in particular, sir, what is one of the most
dangerous surface animals? Well, it's the human being then, I
mean not non human, non human.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
The most dangerous game. I don't know. Bears are pretty gnarly. Yeah,
they'll they'll there, they'll rip you up.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
I never believed that Daily cropic story.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Yeah, oh what what was the Davy croc?
Speaker 3 (41:59):
Oh? Yeah, he killed a bar with.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Threes? I don't know. I hes some when he was
only three, which that's definitely three year olds. Have you
seen them? They're useless, they can't do it.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
Wow, hot takes uh Yeah, but you know, like I've
been talking about this on Instagram, Twitter, various social media platforms,
hanging out with people because I'm fun at parties obviously,
and one of the questions that came up was about
you man. People were asking me which bird Noel thinks
(42:36):
is the most dangerous surface animal. They just assumed that
it would be about They assumed that you would go bird, Well, I.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Wouldn't know, And now that's it's the most terrifying to
me personally. It would be the casuary, you know, the
velociraptor esque dinosaur remnant, you know, walks on two legs
and will disembalue you with its long you know, razor
sharp who wouldn't be scared of nothing. But well, the
Internet says that it's the hippopotamus.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
Well, the hippo has the highest kill count, but the
hippo is also extremely stupid.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Yeah, and they're not. They're they're also I don't know,
maybe I guess are we talking about most likely encounter
you know you definitely, yeah, killing five hundred people a
year in Africa. I guess it's because they're just aggressive
and they just tend to get freaked out really easily
and kind of like just you know.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
They have poor eyesight. Oh yeah, and they're real they're
real chonkers. It's similar to the problem of the rhinoceros,
but the hippo is more dangerous. Uh. The the way
we were thinking about the leaderboard is the idea of
which animal could whip every other animal. So like, could
a tiger fight a hippo, for example, a Siberian tiger
(43:53):
would it?
Speaker 2 (43:54):
No, it would, yeah, I would, it would eat it.
I think it would.
Speaker 5 (43:56):
I mean hippos are aren't aren't They picked off? Usually
like because they're so stupid in their eyesight's so bad,
like guard hippos often you know, killed by other predatory
and they're chonkers.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
Though, is the thing like, uh, gators won't or crocodiles right,
large reptiles don't usually mess with the hippo.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
They're just too formidable, just too really. Dogs with rabies
kill fifty nine thousand people per year. Wow, just from
BBC Science Focused. I don't think this is bullshit. Snakes
one hundred and thirty eight thousand humans a year. This
is you know, because again we're talking about much broader
categories of animal now rather than just like a particular
type you know, hippo right right, Yeah, Snakes is number
(44:39):
three according to this list. Mosquitoes we forgot about mosquitoes. Well,
they're not large disease Okay, they.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
Have a huge like they have a huge skill count
in that they are the one of the most most
murderous life forms toward humans.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Humans is number two though, four hundred thousand deaths per year.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
Get it together, guys.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Number one as one hundred and thirty eight thousand dogs
with rabies not large, I guess medium size fifty nine
k a year. Something called assassin bugs gozas bugs spread.
They're primary spreaders of the deadly chagas disease. It's a
bloodsucking predator and found in Central and South America. The
(45:21):
Choggas disease potentially fatal and is transmitted through an assassin
bug bite or by consumption of cold food or drink
that has been infected by the incense insect and or
its feces, which carries the protozoan trippan tripanosoma cruisy also
known as T cruzy. It's ta cruisy less scary sounding.
(45:42):
Scorpions are a big killer. Crocodiles a thousand. I think
those are what are we talking when we say large though?
Do we have a threshold for that? I think we
need a little bit more data around the data points.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Yeah, this is great. This is where we need help
from our fellow conspiracy realist. Also, quick point of correction,
hippos do use their eyesight. Rhinos are the ones that
are tragically near sighted. Hippos aren't intelligent. Just to be clear,
they're not very smart, but they primarily use their hearing
(46:17):
when they're underwater and when they get out of the water,
they're looking around like where's the watermelon? Or who do
I bite? At this point, I love your question about
our threshold. We've got to figure this out. We need
your help, fellow conspiracy realists join us for the most
Dangerous Animal leader board. We've got excellent discourse going on
(46:42):
on Twitter about this. No, you raise fantastic points there.
I think that's our most immediate question. What is the
threshold for quote unquote large animal? Tell us all about it,
and also if you have if you have provable psychic
power or a proven means of preventing weaponized psychic powers,
(47:05):
we want to hear from you. We try to be
easy to find online.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Or hit us up via the psychic plane.
Speaker 3 (47:11):
There is get too many.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
I saw the TV glow fans out there. You can
find us however on the Internet if that's your bag
at the handle conspiracy stuff where we exist. On to
Ben's point, x fka Twitter. You know, I actually saw
a staff the other day, Ben that like ninety percent
of the media still refers to x as X formerly
known as Twitter. You're by making it one of the
least successful rebrands in the history of rebrands, just putting
(47:37):
that out there because we're one of them. Yeah, that's
also conspiracy stuff. On Facebook. We have our Here's where
it Gets Crazy Facebook group where you can get in
on the conversation and on youtubehere. We have video content
coming at you on the regular on Instagram and TikTok. However,
we are Conspiracy Stuff Show.
Speaker 3 (47:52):
You can also give us a phone call on a
telephonic device. The number is one eight three three stdyk.
When you call in, you will hear a hopefully familiar
voice and then a peep like so pep After that beep,
that's sort of your gunshot. At the beginning of the race,
you have three minutes. Those three minutes are yours. Tell
(48:14):
us what's on your mind. Tell us the name you
would like to be referred to. Let us know if
we can use your name and or message on the air.
Most importantly, do not censor yourself. One of the best
ways to contact us as a group is also email.
Give us the links, give us the pictures, take us
to the edge of the rabbit hole, and we will
(48:35):
do the rest. Just drop us a line at our
good old fashioned email address.
Speaker 6 (48:39):
Where we are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know News
Hosts And Creators
Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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