October 23, 2024 • 62 mins
Whether you love it or hate it, there's no denying: golf is one of the world's most popular -- and most lucrative -- sports. In recent years the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has raised global eyebrows as they pour billions of dollars into their own golfing initiative: LIV. Supporters find this move par for the course (get it?), yet critics allege there's a larger conspiracy afoot. Join Ben, Matt and Noel as they dive into the strange allegations surrounding Saudi Arabia, golf, and 'sportswashing.'
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hello, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
My name is Matt, my name.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
Is no they call me Ben. We're joined as always
with our super producer Dylan to Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly,
you are here. That makes this the stuff they don't
want you to know. Tonight we are exploring the wide
world of sports and maybe some other things, though perhaps
not in the way you might initially assume, fellow conspiracy realists.
(00:49):
First things first, gentlemen, would you guys consider yourself golfers
or I know we've all played golf at some point, well, I.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Mean, if you're counting many golf then yes, if we've
done it together in fact, but I've never played golf
on a proper course, never even been to a top
golf y'all talking about doing that sometime together too.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
I played golf for the first like actual I guess
grown folk golf for the first time in my life,
very long life, just a few months ago, and it
was entirely due to peer pressure, and I got to
tell you, golf fans in the crowd, I get it.
I see how. It's a lot of fun plus can
(01:29):
definitely be a time and money vampire. But unfortunately, folks,
we could assure you being a crackerjack, talent at putt
putt and fun mini golf is not the same thing.
It doesn't translate to other golf. Now.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
He used to work at the club, right, Did you
ever get out there on the links in between shifts?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I don't want to go too much into it, but
it was a health club and they didn't own a
golf course until well into my tenure there. Once they did,
I was kind of out of the picture. I have
played with my father, my grandfather, my friends several times,
not enough, but my grandfather told me I have a
natural swing, but your handicap.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
I don't know what that means. You want a good one? Hi, Well,
I don't know. Do you tell me?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
It's terribly fun once you are out there, and it
is a nice relaxing I would say sport. If you're
going to join a sport that is one of the
most relaxing while also having some of the most intense
micro moments in any sport. So I don't know it's thrilling,
I would say so.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
We'll have to check with our producer, Dylan, But for
now it's fair to say the three of us here
are people who have golfed, but perhaps don't consider ourselves golfers,
especially not professional golfers. If you were, like more than
one hundred and twenty million Americans, more than a third
of the population, you, like us, have played golf, either
(02:57):
on a course or off a course, or you f
followed it on television or oddline, read about the game.
You may have even listened to a golf related podcast.
Some folks love it, some folks hate it. But there's
no denying golf is a big business, and you know
what happens with big businesses, folks, Golf has become embroiled
in what may well be a global conspiracy. Here are
(03:26):
the facts, all right. I feel like we're increasingly colliding
the world's of ridiculous history and stuff they don't want
you to know. But the history of golf is fascinating,
and in my opinion, if you go to the ancient
parts of it, it's incredibly endearing.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
It really is. It's also one of those parallel thinking
type things where it's like people have been hitting rollly
things with sticks since time immemorial, and it's just a
matter of organizing it in different ways. And why not
just hit it a long distance and shoot for a
tiny hole that seems like a fun diversion. And this
was first kind of envision back in Scotland in the
(04:05):
fifteenth century, possibly building on again some older games found
in China, one in particularly called chiu Wan, and other
similar predecessors in France, Persia and England. This is yeah again,
you find something that's laying around and implement of some
sort falling tree branch and then something rolling, figure out
(04:27):
where to hit it where it should go, and your
brain just kind of fills in the gaps and a
game is born.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
That's yeah, That's what I like about that, the idea
that there's something classic human about finding a cool stick.
I don't know about you all, but I am unapologetically
a fan of finding cool sticks and walking around with them,
especially during a hike.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
You know.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
I sometimes I don't know, when you pick them up,
when you feel like you're gandolf with a nice cool stick.
You might find at some point multiple times in history,
some and found a cool stick, and they found something
like a ball. Probably started off with the rock, if
we're being honest, and then later they made up rules
about the quote unquote right way to hit it, and
(05:10):
as you said, how to hit it, we also want
to shout out the ancient sport of Roman Paganica. Pardon
my mispronunciation there, but.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
That one had a leather ball that was right stuffed
with wool, yes, and you just knock it around with
a bent stick.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
And we're unclear on exactly the nature of the bent stick.
It's it's very odd and check out if you want
to learn more about ancient sports, check out our upcoming
episode on Weird Sports for ridiculous history. But as you
were saying, Noel, the predecessor of the modern version of
golf comes to us in Scotland in the fourteen hundreds,
in the fifteenth century, and ever since then, golf's popularity
(05:50):
has only grown. Golf in North America is older than
the United States. In North America.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Well, it's interesting too, because golf is one of these
sports too that kind of combines sport with architecture and landscaping.
And it's like, sure, you'll have like famous baseball stadiums,
but it's all the same baseball diamond. You know, golf
course is something to be designed and fussed over, and
it's sort of like a demonstration of opulence too, because
(06:16):
you know, you can literally terraform the earth and create
this labyrinthine golf course.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Well yeah, and it's a way to draw in highly
influential people to your neck of the woods, right to
hang out, play a little game, maybe have some drinks,
a couple of meals and meetings with people who, again
are generally highly influential. And I think it's been used
that way for centuries.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Yeah, which, well, we'll definitely have to get to there,
because you can also say that about many professional sports.
There's a reason people fight to have a sports organization
in their neck of the global woods, in their I mean,
if you look at the US, people have been playing
some version of golf in North America since the early
(07:06):
sixteen hundreds, likely introduced by the Dutch and the Scottish.
As we know the Dutch settlers went on to become
patricians of the United States. To that point earlier made
about influence, it was still centuries before the foundation of
the first US official golf club Saint Andrew's Golf founded
in Yonkers in eighteen eighty eight. And I don't know
(07:28):
about you, guys, I don't know too much about Yonkers
other than I like the name. There's something Soussian about it.
So this is now the one fact I know about Yonkers.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
It's like a It's not a borough of New York exactly.
It's more of it's like a township or something. It's
its own thing, but it is near you know, New
York City for sure.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Just weirdly, guys, the Piedmont Driving Club that we mentioned
earlier was founded in eighteen eighty seven. Wow, And just
thinking about these are organizations of again influential people already
getting together and forming another little club thing that they get.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
To do, which they've been doing for a long time.
You know, Europe's aristocrats met it exclusive salons and clubs.
I guess the difference there for Saint Andrews then, just
so we're clear, is that that was the first one
founded just for golf.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yeah. It's interesting though, because you don't really think about
influential people getting together to play a game of touch
football and have influential meetings. Yeah, Like there's something about
golf where the individual anybody can play it, not anyone
can be good at it, but it's kind of this
equalizer in a way, and there's an exclusivity to it,
(08:35):
and you play in small groups.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
It's not a sport, and think about the way the
sport works. You have a rotationary period and you don't
have a very tight clock often so this naturally generates conversation.
But bowling is not the same because in bowling people
rotate quickly, so you don't have as much time to speak.
(08:58):
But also it's not as physically demanding, and a lot
of times when people play golf, part of the game
involves hanging out before or after grabbing some snacks, nashin
and then talking about business deals. That's I would argue,
that's part of the reason golf is so popular. It's
a major economic draw. Just to finish that part. Most
(09:19):
people don't want to compete professionally necessarily. They say, you
play for about three years and you get a rough
idea your skill level or your potential. But it's incredibly
popular because it helps in business. It is not uncommon
to hear professionals from across industries say a good game
of golf or playing golf is a pivotal moment in
(09:41):
their careers or their negotiations or their promotions.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Absolutely, well, that's exactly what you said, Ben. It's the
walk from one hole to the next hole, right from
the place where the previous hole finishes to where the
next win begins.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
It's a pretty text for a walk and talk you know,
constantly for eighteen of them.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yes, I cannot I think we cannot stress that enough,
like how impactful that has been through the years and
just the things that have occurred in history because of
a maybe a single game of golf or a series
of games of golf.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
And also it's at the same time, it functions as
an extended version of you know, the lunch meeting or
the firm handshake, because a lot of people pride themselves
on getting a good read on folks, especially and you know,
in the world of private business. So they'll I've heard
(10:36):
things like, you know, show me a guy how how
a guy plays golf, and I'll tell you how he
works in the boardroom. Well, it's why one of my
favorite old Cadrey insults from business tycoons is that guy
cheats at golf because what they're really saying is they
think he's also a shark at business and not ethical.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Wait, so that's a compliment.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Sounds like a winner to me. Why are you kidding me?
Speaker 3 (11:03):
But then there's also so many business terms that spring
from golf, like the idea of having a big swing,
you know what I mean, like take like a big
grand efforts, or like some sort of like big forward
thinking risky move is like a big swing, you know.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
And golf and business are inextricably linked in a way
that is somewhat unique. Right, every major sport has this
huge business link to it. We talked oh links haha.
We mentioned some startling stats about people playing golf in
the US, but to get our heads around tonight's episode,
I think we need to consider financial stats as well.
(11:39):
The economic impact of golf in twenty twenty two was
one hundred billion dollars, and that's an increase from the
last time they ran the numbers in twenty sixteen, when
it was only eighty four billion dollars. Because this is
another unique thing about golf, Unlike a lot of other sports,
it flourish during the pandemic. It's perfect if you have
(12:03):
to worry about social distancing.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
And Ben, I mean, I'm assuming this number is referring
to the economics of golf courses, of the money golfing generates,
perhaps also on professional level.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's you nailed at NOL because it's
things like not just the fees people pay to go
to a course, but things like there were sometimes risdiculous
money you can you can spend on clubs, both you know,
golf clubs and golf club Hey, I got myself in
a pickle there, both golf clubs as the implement and
(12:38):
golf clubs as the location medium.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
But it also just it occurred to me though that
this number, if you think about all the business deals
that golf generates, would be way higher in the trillions,
probably an immeasurable.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Number, right, Like the endorsements, no, no, but even just
the deals.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
People are making whilst playing golf, you could ye as
another economic impact of golf. Right, it's on.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Think.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I think it's no accident that mar A Lago is
such an important function within Donald Trump's career and world, right,
because it is where you can have those conversations, and
he's an avid golfer, and it just occurs that.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Way, and business tycoons have on several occasions accused former
President Trump of cheating Nikola.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
I have heard that golf, you pick up your you
drop your ball illegally, or you maybe not get some
strokes back basically, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
I guess. I mean. Also, if you're playing golf with
your buddies, did I'm sure it's a very different game,
kind of the honor.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
System, right, because you're keeping score for yourself. There's no
like referee or official watching over you.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
And I didn't want to I don't want to be
labor is pulling up the quotes even though they are funny.
But I have to say, in the interest of fairness
and being very apolitical here, it is also possible that
the business tycoons accusing each other of cheating at golf
might just be sore losers. M you know. So anyway,
golf is not without controversy. No sport is. There's all
(14:12):
the drama between players. You know, We've got this almost
Shakespearean tragedies of the of the great athletes who find
themselves fallen on hard time. Shout out Tiger Woods. He
did disagreements, but that's not what we're here for tonight,
because to really get into this. We have to go
past the US and Scotland guys all the way out
(14:33):
to the Middle East. This might finally be the episode
that gets us jammed up at customs. But the Kingdom
of Saudi Arabia never been.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
No, right, no. Many of you listening will probably be
aware that this is an incredibly rish nation, incredibly wealthy.
It's located in the Middle East, home of the most
important holy sites to the Muslim faith, and also home
to incredibly dense and rich fossil fuel reserves or fossil
(15:05):
fuel deposits.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, oil has been very important for ye old KSA,
and I think one of the main things that we're
going to be looking at today is what do you
do as a giant, wealthy country when you know that
your primary resource that has built all the wealth is
beginning to fade away from popular opinion right or to
(15:31):
be soured amongst popular opinion of the world.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
What do you do.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Well? And if you join us for past episodes, you
know that this is something the kingdom has been wrestling
with for quite some time, for decades now, because people
in the petroleum industry had the predictive science about the
decline of fossil fuels far before the public did so.
(15:59):
The ruling powers, not just in Saudi Arabia, but in
other oil rich nations, especially in the Middle East, they
knew about this, and if you are running a long
term sustainable economy, you never wanted reliant upon a single
export or product or type of product. Right, So they
have made a pivot. Maybe there will be a future
(16:19):
episode about some of their other things, but from now,
let's leave that right there and introduce you to the
other piece. We all we have to say, we have
to acknowledge the issue in the room. Look Saudi Arabia
is a huge deal, not just for fossil fuel. The
most important holy sites of the Muslim faith are located there.
You've also likely heard of the huge problems the nation
(16:41):
has historically had with their human rights abuses, their treatment
of women, LGBTQ, foreign workers essentially being enslaved, they vivisected Kashaki,
They're terrible with journalists. They're known for very harsh enforcement
and interpretation of Islam. The list goes on. It's not
(17:03):
a democracy. It's a very powerful place. If you've met
folks from Saudi Arabia, you know they're awesome because people
are pretty much people wherever you go, but people are
not the country. No, And.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Gosh, can I just attempt this full name Ben?
Speaker 5 (17:21):
Yes, yes, we just call him, but his full name
is Salomon, Ben Abdullah Ziz, Ben Abdul Raman, Ben Faisal,
Ben Turkey, Ben Abdullah, Ben Mohammad Ben Saud.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Great work, Nolan, Yeah, and everybody wondering Ben there is
spelled b I n like of yeah, like son of
yea of that family or of that lineage. You nailed that.
You you nailed that. We can see why people don't
always say his full name. Uh So that is the
person uh nol Us named is the king of Saudi Arabia.
(18:02):
But the guy we hear about most in the West
is the current Crown Prince and Prime Minister, Mohammed ben Salman.
And that's the guy much younger. You'll hear a lot
of quotes from him in the news. Will have some
for you this evening. He is definitely the policymaker of
the land, and he's done controversial, frankly brutal things. But
(18:25):
he's also known for instituting a series of sweeping reforms
that are in theory downright revolutionary for a country that
is this conservative. It's called Vision twenty thirty.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
So in addition to kind of pulling back on some
of the historical restrictions and minor law changes, it also
aims to do what could be referred to kind of
as a rebrand, sort of a pr refresh of Saudi
Arabia's as you mentioned Ben, patently pretty negative image to visitors,
to outsiders, tourists and invest abroad. There was a particularly
(19:02):
snarky journalist that you found a quote from Ben who
put it this way, Saudi Arabia really wants.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
You to think it's cool, which is, you know, I
don't know how they would react to that title. While
it may sound cavalier. Stephen A. Cook, writing for Foreign
Policy is correct Vision twenty thirty. A lot of people
are still pretty skeptical about the scope of it and
the timeline. As you can imagine, they want to do
(19:30):
a lot of stuff by twenty thirty, but right now
oil is still seventy five percent of Saudi Arabia's fiscal
revenue easily and forty percent of its GDP. It's it's
the right move.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Well, yeah, but I'm a big part of American policy
when whatever side of the aisle you know, people fall politically,
is to reduce our reliance on foreign oil. Like, that's
a pretty bipartisan issue, right.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Which is weird because the US is also in the
grand scheme of things and a fossil fuel rich.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Country, but nowhere near as much so as Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Right, no, no, no, But US crude oil exports reached
a record high just last year. So when you hear
people say the US is fighting to not be reliant
on foreign fuel, it's important to look at the current
numbers too. I know for sure this is exciting to
some people, even though it's deeply imperfect. They can be
(20:34):
seen as steps in the right direction human rights that
people have always deserved that are maybe slowly coming to
pass in this nation. But to others, granted, this is
an insincere performative dance for approval on the international stage.
This leads us to one of the weirdest controversies. Shout
out to our buddy Brian Towey, a type of conspiracy
(20:56):
called sports washing. What is it? I'll tell you after
a word from our sponsors, here's where it gets crazy,
all right, what is sports washing?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Well, according to Britannica money Sportswashing is the use of
an athletic event by an individual or government, or a
corporation or another group to promote or burnish the individuals
or group's reputation, especially amid controversy or scandal. What so
they use sports to make themselves look good.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Whilst now I'm gonna see you here, guys, let's we
just let's have a good old friendly game of sports.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
We're Russia, we love the Olympics.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Don't worry about the fifteen of nineteen terrorists that were
from Saudi Arabia that allegedly caused the nine to eleven attacks.
Don't worry about Jamal ka Shogi, who was a journalist
who got exiled because he said some stuff about the
King's son Wen Golff.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
You guys get that right. You guys know what golf's about.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
If you don't like golf, I've got other stuff. Yeah.
This is similar. It's a portmanteau similar to greenwashing or
which wash when yeah, which is when companies try to
distract from their environmental damage by appearing to do like
recycling programs are often accused of being greenwashing, and my
favorite part of this definition is that list of things
(22:26):
that might do it where they say individual, corporation, government,
or other group. I kept thinking what falls into miscellaneous?
Is it like your local improv group does sports washing?
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Like?
Speaker 4 (22:38):
How small can a group be? How big do you
have to be to participate in sports washing? I guess
you have to be big enough to have a pro
sports team.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Improv can be pretty controversial. Ben say some pretty inflammatory
stuff in these sketches, But also I retract pink washing.
That's different, though it sounds similar. Pink washing is more
the sort of sale of like stuff geared towards you know,
women in a kind of offensive pandory way.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Huh Okay, Okay, yeah, I bet, I bet there aren't
tons of portmanteaus with washing right other than brainwashing that
will we'll run into. It's weird, though, because sportsa washing
is a pretty new term. It was printed in first
in print in twenty fifteen and was not referring to
Russia nor to Saudi Arabia. It was referring to Azerbaijan.
(23:27):
They had taken these actions with the European Games, and
a lot of critics said this is entirely a cynical
attempt to take focus off some of the horrible human
rights abuses you are committing.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Yeah, and groups like Amnesty International have used this term
as well to criticize other countries with similar controversies, trying
to kind of cover up their, you know, sins with
rollicking sporting events, including Russia's hosting of the twenty four
teen Olympic Games like you were mentioning or alluding to
(24:02):
a little while ago, ben and the twenty eighteen World Cup,
because again, these are just kind of these events are
we use them in America in a similar way sometimes right.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
To cover up well, national anthem is at the top
of every ball game.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Sure, but like sporting events, there is this kind of
unifying quality to them that can be used propagandistically. And
I think, you know, I'm maybe I'm overstating the case,
but it feels like America can be guilty of this too,
just in terms of the fervor around sports, where it's like, oh,
look at this this. I mean, it's like bread and circuses, right,
(24:40):
It's a way of distracting from a fed up stuff.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Yeah, but it is weird. So I'm thinking about Olympic
Games in the United States, right. Two thousand and two
is when Salt Lake City happened. That was just before
we entered Iraq, right after nine to eleven and all
of that stuff. That's when one of the main places
where the United States has been accused of, you know,
some human rights stuff, right, Not that the United States
(25:07):
isn't accused of human rights stuff in places across the
world pretty much at all times with military actions and
like stuff that isn't quite a military action. But I
don't know that it's the same necessarily.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Oh no, I don't think it's the same. But I'm
just saying I can see the value. How sports are
clearly kind of like an obvious, you know, choice for
doing this kind of thing. Yeah, we don't do it
in the same way that these countries are doing it
because our reputation is kind of our reputation.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
It seems like they's a little fluid. I'll tell you.
I'll tell you why they're too. No, because the the
thing that we have to remember in this context is
that the US already has huge cultural exports of soft
power that other countries may not possess at that same level.
So if you're the home of Hollywood and you have
(25:56):
one of the biggest entertainment industries in the world. Then
you're already getting a lot of that washing to distract
from things. Check out our previous episode on the Cozy
relationship and the sweetheart deals. The US military industrial complex
will make with you as a director or a production
studio so long as the army looks good in your movie. Yep,
(26:19):
they'll just let you drive the tanks. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Which, by the way, Saudi Arabia has a big old
hand in Hollywood with its Vision twenty to thirty plan
that we were talking about.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
So basically we wrote the playbook for a lot of
this stuff, is what I think the takeaway is here.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Well, when the case of sports washing, it's strange because,
like so many other things, the term itself, the language
for it, is new, but the strategy is old. Beans.
One of the most famous early examples of sports washing
before we all collectively learned the term, is the nineteen
thirty six Nazi Olympics. The Nazi already hosted the Olympics,
(27:01):
both because they wanted to look like the good guys
are a legitimate part of the international order, and then
also to them just as importantly, they wanted to prove
their disturbing pseudo scientific beliefs.
Speaker 6 (27:15):
About race, and uh it blew up in their face
because yes, Jesse Owens right, they were wrong, kicked ass
he like absolutely blew away all of their aryan entries
in track and field.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
And it was like a hugely embarrassing kind of pr
debacle for.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Old Hiller right, because their beliefs were and beat me
here at c Palin Tryers their beliefs were bullshit and
easily disprove it. So this this question is what all
right sportswa washing? What does this have to do to
South with Saudi Arabia. Even if you don't know much
about golf, and we're not the golf encyclopedias that some
(27:53):
people are, you've probably heard of the PGA Tour, right,
even if you've just been at David Busters and played
one of the golf games with the little rollie ball,
it's the big one.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
I actually really like playing golf video games, whether they
be kind of goofy, you know, Mario type golf video
games or some of the PGA Tour ones.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
I find it a little bit relaxing and I find
it meditative.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
I enjoy it. Yeah, it's fun. It's a good chill
type of game to play that does involve some precision,
and it's sort of like a languid kind of pace
to it, and I can see why it's appealing to
some people. However, watching it on television, I do not
understand entirely. It just blows my mind to the people
will sit and watch golf on TV.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
It's a professional golfers association. These are pros guys.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
The PGA. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Near where we live in Atlanta, we have a pg
where I live. In particular, in East Lake area of Atlanta,
there is the East Lake Golf Course which hosts a
PGA tour and it clogs stuff up real bad, you
know when it's happening because it's hard to get around.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
But PGA is the big dog too. By the way,
PGA is the the organizer of professional golf tours in
North America. Back in twenty nineteen, there was a would
be rival that I guess smelled the money. So back
in twenty nineteen, a would be upstart must have smelled
(29:17):
the money. Entered the proverbial chat. They wanted to usurp
the role of the PGA, and in a burst of creativity,
they called themselves the Premiere Golf League, the pg L.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
It's one letter different.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
It's cool, yeah, but that sounds like Vanilla Ice saying
that he didn't rip off that drum track.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
It is funny though, because they definitely intentionally left the
P and the G in there because p stands are
something different. It's premiere, which is a little more vague
than professional. I would argue, you know, yeah, we're the best,
We're the one of the matters.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
Which is like, what those kind of the strategy for
those sort of people, you know, like, can't it, will
steal it. That's a common strategy, right, because if you
think about the brass tacks they're saying, all right, what
if someone's buying and I guarantee this conversation happened. What
if someone's buying PGA tickets for a loved one and
(30:13):
they don't know much about golf at all, They can't
get PGA, but they see PGL and they're like, oh,
that's mostly the same, right, you know, like when your
grandma buys you a video game for the wrong console,
that's kind of the that's kind of the idea. But
they also, you know, this happens all the time in sports.
(30:35):
So this group a Premier Golf League. They're in talks
with Saudi investors early on and they say, let's get
some kind of financial partnership going. Yes, they're probably playing
golf when they added these conversations too. Yeah, it's true.
But in twenty twenty something something went awry. Because Saudi
Arabia's sovereign wealth fund is known as the Public Investment Fund.
(31:00):
They said, hey, we'll make our own I'm not going
to quote Bender from Futurama, but they said, we'll make
our own golf league.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Oh. I thought the PGL was that thing. I got it.
So the PGL was like another American interest that Saudi's
were investing in, and they're like, you know, let's take
this a step further. We'll launch something called the l
I V or LIV Golf Investments under the Golf Saudi Moniker.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Right, we're usurping the usurpers.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yeah, it's wild. What a power move.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
And the Public Investment Fund is a story, it's all
its own. That's where you see multi billions of dollars
worth of investments and all sorts of things that you
probably don't recognize as influenced by this money.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
This is something where I guess there's some sort of
committee behind making these decisions, and the decisions are pretty
shadowy in terms of how things get done or where
the money goes.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Yeah. Yeah, just to be clear, the citizens in Saudi
Arabia do not get devoted.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
But it's public.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Yeah, well, there's public information because of some lawsuits specifically
that we're involved between the PGA and LIV that we're
going to talk about. We know some of those investments.
Now you guys might if we just go over a
couple of them, just so we have some context of
what they invest in. So this PIF has holdings as
of oh gosh, this is from April twenty twenty three,
(32:20):
so this is probably changed. It's in a giant investment fund,
so they move money around and shares around a lot.
But as of April twenty twenty three, they owned eight
point nine billion dollars worth of Lucid stock, which is
that car manufacturer, three point two billion dollars worth of
Activision Blizzard, two point nine billion in Electronic Arts, two
(32:43):
point three billion in Uber, eight hundred and eighty million
dollars in Live Nation. They own a ton like hundreds
of millions of dollars in Meta Starbucks PayPal, Microsoft, Carnival
as in like Cruises, Costco, JP, Morgan Chase, and Blackrock,
and there's so many more. Black Rock will by the way,
the real estate investment firm thing. They also own a
(33:08):
ton of Nintendo. They own eight point five eight percent
of Nintendo right now, that's a lot.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Yeah, and that's not a controlling stake, but it is
an influential stake. And yes, black Rock not to be
confused with the black Stone. The Rock set into the
eastern corner of the Kabba, the Public Investment Fund before
we before we go back to the golf stuff. It
has an estimated total asset of nine hundred and twenty
(33:37):
five billion dollars nine hundred and twenty five billion.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Let's just make it a cool trillion man, you know.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
I know, right, They're so so close, right, And the
purpose of this investment is to diversify the economy, to
bring Saudi Arabia further into the international order and sports
in specific. For this episode, it became a great way
to accomplish that. In October twenty twenty one, Golf Saudi
(34:10):
division of the Public Investment Fund. Because it's that big,
they have a bunch of divisions who just work on
specific ideas golf. Saudi launched Live Golf Investments LIV. You know,
like how the cool apps don't put the E at
the end of their stuff sometimes.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
I always found this silent letters to be a bit obnoxious.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Anyway, So yeah, you think they're presumptuous a little bit.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
They really insisted on them.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
So you must hate French.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
I enjoy the French.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Yeah. Okay, So there's a legendary golfer named Greg Norman.
I got excited about this, but it's not a guy,
I know, it's just a very common name, Greg.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Yeah, I did.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
For a second, I thought, oh snap, Greg. He is
named the CEO PIF Fund and live as billions bot
billions of profits from fossil fuels. So they go around
to all of the biggest names in the world of
golf and they say, hey, how much money.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Well, they need a face, they need a recognizable face
for their operations, somebody who's beloved, you know, by followers
of the game of golf. And they you know, went
to the top names, starting with folks like Tiger Woods
who did turn it down, whether it be for philosophical reasons,
ethical reasons, or they just didn't hit his rate.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
His quote, he said it was as a matter of
loyalty because good for TIGERSGA had done so much for
him and for the game of golf, and they offered
him more than seven hundred million dollars. Dude.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
ABC News said eight hundred million dollars, which, again, those
kinds of numbers. What's the difference between seven hundred million
and eight hundred million. I don't know that I could
really tell you.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Yeah, we don't have a nine hundred billion and a trillion,
you know, I mean, it's like, might as well be
infinity money.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
We Yeah, we don't have the specifics obviously of the deal,
but most news sources are going to estimate it as
saying between more than seven hundred up to eight hundred million.
And then so Tiger Woods and other people said no,
and then other golfers like Greg Norman.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
I do not know.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
It's crazy. I feel like I know three people named
Greg Norman.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
I just know him from growing up around golf and Augusta, Georgia.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
Other people like him and Phil Mickelson. Then, just to
show this up, they didn't say yes, they did play ball.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Yeah, I understand, Like, the only reason I have any
association with names like this is because growing up in
my hometown, which is the home of the Augusta National
where the Master's golf tournament is played, and it is
a big deal in the city of Augusta.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Yeah, guys like Bubba Watson, which was a big deal.
I remember there were news stories when he went over
to live as well, and he was just like, hey, sorry, guys,
this is about my family a money.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
By Yeah, golf clubs are expensive, which I was just
learning to.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
By the way, Yaviar's expensive.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Just to bring in this ABC News article because I
think it speaks to why this is such a weird situation.
ABC News is talking about this, right, They posted an
article in March of this year called Live Golf's controversial
growth raises questions over Saudi sportswashing, right, the very thing
(37:27):
we're talking about here, and ABC News the person who
wrote this had to write this in the article.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Quote the PIF we're talking about here, the Public Investment Fund,
which also owns a minority stake in Disney, the parent
company of ABC News and Hulu. Again, like all of
these companies together, the person writing this has to make
this concession because Saudi Arabia is investing so much money
across entertainment and sports and all these things that literally
(37:56):
to even talk about it often as a journalist, you
have to be aware that you are probably being touched
by this Saudi money.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
Right, Saudi Arabia. Also, I would say it's less a
concession and more like the ethics of journalism, Like when
NPR says short of our funding is here, it's just
to just to get in from of disclosure, right, full
disclosure maybe. But with this, it also reminds me our
parent company, iHeart is associated with Live Nation, and who
(38:25):
who has a stake in Live Nation?
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Well that's yeah, yeah, exactly this one. But there's according
to that article, this Sovereign Wealth Fund has invested thirteen
point five billion dollars into sports since it started, Right,
So if you've got that much money just going into sports,
and then you know that there's like one point three
trillion dollars in total that has been invested like since
(38:50):
the inception of this twenty thirty thing, and then you
know that all this money is just spreading out. When
I'm saying like everybody's being touched by it, it just
means you there's a level of full disclosure is one thing,
but there's a level of anyone writing about it has
to just be a little more careful absolutely when they're
(39:11):
doing that.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Well, you know, like you said, the Saudi money touches
so much industry, and for a good reason are they
investing in sports beyond the whole sports watching of it.
It's just good business. It's a way making a.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Crap ton of money, and everybody wants it.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
That's a great point to you, Noel, because the PIF,
the Public Investment Fund, began in nineteen seventy one, so
even the numbers you're getting now about their total financial
assets are not counting other things that have grown over time,
right because compound interest I think was Mark Twain had
a great quote about compound interest, which I will slow
(39:49):
us down with now. But the point you made that
really stands out to me there, Noal, is that if
your goal is to diversify your economy, right, then of
course you want to invest in a whole bunch of
other things. It would be cartoonish to say, we're too
reliant on fossil fuels, so let's invest everything in corn,
(40:10):
you know what I mean? Because now you're just too
little corn. It's fine a little. The corn is fine
as a treat. But now otherwise you're taking all your
eggs and just putting them in a different basket made
of corn husks. Perhaps, so it's not necessarily just on
the economic structure and strategy, there is not itself inherently sinister.
The problem comes when we consider that in the context
(40:33):
of all these other controversies surrounding the kingdom and live golf.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Well, you just have to consider how many corporations out
there are wanting an investment from Saudi Arabia because you can.
If you can get two billion dollars injected into whatever
your company is doing, that's amazing. And everybody's looking for
that year over a year, quarter over a quarter increase.
And if you've got like two twenty one hundred billion
dollars to play with your and he's going to do
(41:00):
just fine.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
And if you can keep it quiet to avoid controversy, right,
if you can get it through a subsidiary of a subsidiary,
the money spends the same and you can possibly avoid
the bad optics or the.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Great optics of Hey, investors, he just got two more
billion dollars to play with. And then stock shoots up,
and then everybody makes money because Saudi Arabia has got
you know, a minority share.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
Now, yeah, my point was that I think a lot
of them are getting money through subsidiaries in a way
that helps obscure the origin of Saudi Arabia and industries
where that might be sensitive and maybe I mean correct.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
Oh, I think it's certainly part of it. But I
think it's also on a pr level easy to explain
the investment away because it's like, duh, we're business people.
We are investing in things that make us money. It
doesn't have to be some sort of nefarious plot.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
You know.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
I'm not saying the two things don't coexist, but I
think it's easy to explain it away on a public
relationship level by just saying this is just good business.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
And taking it back to Live Golf for the record,
you know, people love golf obviously, obviously, people love sports,
people love golf. Live Golf has always claimed that we
want to holistically improve the health of professional golf. That's
quote from their website and to quote, help unlock the
sports potential. A lot of the old Guard was again
(42:25):
pretty miffed about this, and they're some of the most
strident critics of Saudi Arabia's moves in this field, and
a lot of longtime critics of Saudi Arabia for other
stuff on the human rights spectrum. They just said, Saudi
Arabia is doing this not because they like golf, not
because it's a good investment for them economically, but because
(42:46):
it's a geopolitical conspiracy. This is to improve the soft
power of the country, their international reputation and say like, hey, yeah,
we're doing evil things to human beings with our left hand.
Look at us. We also have the golf at our
right hand, so pay attention to that hand.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
But ben are they being very publicly forward in branding
and the like associating the country with they are Okay,
oh yeah, I want to hear more about that.
Speaker 4 (43:16):
Yeah, for sure, We're get do great. Great quote Ardi.
So there's a news conference ahead of Live Golf's first event,
and reporters were to the thing about journalistic ethics and integrity.
Reporters were asking questions like Phil Mickelson, who we mentioned
(43:36):
just a few moments ago. He was asked directly, quote,
isn't there a danger that you're seeing as a tool
of sports washing and the sports washing question came up
over and over again in these Western press conferences, and
then another human rights group released a great study. They're
called Grant Liberty and their report on Saudi Arabian sports
(43:57):
washing efforts. They take it as a given. They just say, look,
because of all the money the potential in this sports
as if you think about it, well it's not on
the level of fossil fuel, but it is a multi
billion dollar industry. They said, now they're trying to lighten
their image. I don't know, that's the thing. This is
(44:17):
the question I have for you guys. We we know
people try to start new sports orgs all the time.
It's a huge coup to host a global sporting event,
from racing to the World Cup in the Olympics. Is
it inherently sinister?
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Well, that was the question that I think I was
our Devil's advocating for earlier. You know, just the idea
that it can at very least be explained away, that
it is not inherently sinister. This just makes sense. We
love this stuff, we love the sport. We want to help,
you know, make it better. And I believe that group
that you quoted, Ben or that you cited Grant Liberty
(44:55):
kind of summed it up exactly that way. Sports has loved,
they said, and played around the world. That is a
giant unifying force, and it's also a multi billion dollar industry.
By associating themselves with sport, leaders are seeking to position
their country in line with that magic. They want to
bask in reflected glory and like you said, ben lighten
their image.
Speaker 4 (45:16):
Yeah, well, there's also a convenience factor. Maybe I don't
think this applies to Saudi Arabia's rulers, to be honest,
but if you have the big global event for any
particular sport in your country, you get national pride. And
also everybody who lives there doesn't have to spend thousands
of dollars, you know, on plane flights or traveling by
(45:38):
cargo ship or rail, and they don't have to spend
thousands of dollars on hotels. I don't know if that
applies to the ruling powers of Saudi Arabia. I don't
think they're worried about like getting the cheapest flight on
Delta or whatever.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
No, probably not.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
I want to point one thing out, guys, because I
think I think it has exactly to do with this.
There's this group called nine to Eleven Families United, and
it's shared by someone named Terry Strata, whose husband was
killed in the nine to eleven attacks. And when Live
Golf was first announced back in twenty twenty one, this
group came forward and began protesting and writing and speaking
(46:20):
publicly about it because of the at the time in
twenty twenty one, more and more information that was coming
out right before that about how Saudi Arabia's intelligence arms
or at least government officials likely had something to do
with the September eleventh attacks. And we're talking actual intelligence,
(46:40):
not like just people writing conspiracy theories online. This was
a real news story that was starting to happen. If
you look at pro Publica, they put out a story
this year on September eleventh titled at least two Saudi
officials may have deliberately assisted nine to eleven hijackers. New
evidence suggests this is one of the primary stories that
(47:03):
exist in the Western world and especially in the United States,
when it comes to when you think about Saudi Arabia,
what do you think about? And if this stuff is
in the news cycle pretty consistently, then live Golf is
one way as we're saying here, So just shift what
people are thinking about. The first couple of things they
think about. When they hear Saudi Arabia, right, or the
(47:24):
kingdom or the prince or the king or something like that,
you think, oh, yeah, so that's a live golf guys, right,
not this.
Speaker 4 (47:33):
Yeah yeah, that's definitely one of the criticism or that's
the fundamental piece of sportswa washing, you know, going into
the timing of something just like soachy and just like
the Nazi Olympics. But we also have to ask, you know,
with something in the magnitude of nine to eleven, how
much could golf move the needle or is it more
(47:53):
death by a thousand paper cuts? Because we know, you know,
it reminds me of the pr moves on a much
smaller level that different agencies will do where they want
something to get off the first page of search results,
so they figure out something else to happen, right, like
a new news story to be manufactured and appear to
(48:14):
go viral.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
But the PGA Commissioner J Monahan, when live golf was announced,
basically jumped on with the exact talking points the nine
to eleven families United was saying, saying, this is basically
a moral issue, more so than even a money issue
or appearance issue. It's just crazy to think that that
(48:38):
is where it existed, at least in the minds of
the people behind the PGA, when they were looking at
a competitor like Live showing up.
Speaker 4 (48:46):
I'm glad that points brought up there, because yes, the
international public renown is a huge factor. But we have
to ask, in all fairness, all the evil corruption and
conspiracy vivisection of journalists aside, what makes Saudi Arabia different.
This is a question I have, and I think it's
a very important question to that note about the PGA.
(49:07):
How much of the criticism is valid spoiler a lot?
And how much is being propagated by older forces in
those organizations like the PGA. How much are they acting
out of self preservation versus out of noble aspirations for
human rights. As sticky as it is to say, I
will posit that both things can be true at once agreed,
(49:37):
So in our notes we have this as the part
that might get us banned from Saudi Arabia, the one
that might get us jammed up at Saudi Arabian customs.
Saudi Arabia is not just getting into golf. They're going
into sports overall in a big, big way. Some controlling
stakes were in various other industries were mentioned earlier, and
(49:57):
we tease that there was more than just golf of
foots here. But you can look at the links. The
Public Investment Fund owns controlling stakes, not just minority stakes,
controlling stakes in Newcastle United, for Saudi domestic football or
soccer teams. It had a stake in Formula One's parent company,
(50:19):
McLaren Group. And then they're they're getting big into esports too, Right,
what's the difference between esports? Guys, this is such a
dumb question, but I'm not afraid of dumb questions. What's
the difference to esports and sports video games?
Speaker 3 (50:34):
Isn't esports like professional league like leagues? Oh that's okay, Yeah, yeah,
you're right, you're right.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
Esport is any game first version, shooters, you know, like
those Dota games, any of that stuff.
Speaker 3 (50:47):
On a competitive, like professional level.
Speaker 2 (50:49):
Right, you can have sports games esports.
Speaker 4 (50:54):
That makes sense. And they also got a some of
us in the crowdle like this. They also have a
mind already stake in a rival to the UFC, the
US Professional Fighters League. So yet again we see the
letters play. There's the PFL and the UFC their ideas.
They're going to launch an MMA league and a super
fight division, all located in Saudi Arabia. Oh. Also, pro
(51:18):
wrestling is big. We know some folks who work for
WWE and have traveled to Saudi Arabia to stage events
there were It's pretty much everything boxing, horse racing, sailing, tennis.
You know what I'm excited about, Saudi Arabian sumo wrestling.
Maybe you finally get a ticket that's not I don't
(51:40):
know if that's happen.
Speaker 3 (51:41):
Isn't that cool? I mean, so that's the thing that's
interesting to me too. It's like sports aren't considered cultural
appropriation because it's like, even if a sport was invented
in a certain country, after a certain point, it becomes
kind of this universal thing. But like sumo wrestling, I
mean like that, I know you're sort of joking, but
where where did the line get drawn in terms of like,
but culture is associated with a particular type of event.
Speaker 4 (52:03):
That's a good question, man, because we know that there
are non Japanese national folks who have become professional sumo wrestlers.
I'm now I'm becoming the problem because I'm wondering if
it would just be easier to get a ticket to
a sumo event Saudi Arabia took over.
Speaker 3 (52:23):
Oh yeah, I mean, answer if it was like a
bicultural sort of exchange and it was like we agree
that we want to proliferate the sport beyond Japan and
include you know, I mean, I don't know. I'm sorry,
I didn't mean to get into the weeds there. It's
just that is interesting because for certain things like you know,
baseball or basketball or football, you know, really he certainly
it's American, I guess. But it's also like soccer is
(52:44):
huge in Europe and it's a huge in South America,
and only just recently has it become a more of
a phenomenon here in the States.
Speaker 4 (52:51):
So the cultural side of it is interesting to me. Yeah, yeah,
that's I think that's a deep question too. I mean,
we know, all in all Saudi Arabia's eighty five major
separate events, and at every turn in all of these events,
you'll hear people accusing athletes, managers, and coaches of being
(53:13):
functionally complacent, right of essentially taking the thirty pieces of
silver to betray humanity right and distract from these serious,
very real human rights abuses. So what's the motivation really?
It depends on who you ask why all this recent
massive investment Before we get to monopolization that we wanted
(53:38):
to mention, I think we go directly to the Crown
Prince Mohamed Salman to ask about this. He is pretty
blunt about it in interviews, and he makes no secret
of the massive financial motivations of play. He was speaking
to Fox News and said he didn't care about the
debate around sports washing. He was interviewed by Brett Bahar,
(54:03):
the same guy who earlier interviewed VP Harris. Quite recently,
as we record, and this is in September twentieth of
twenty twenty three, the Crown print says, Look, I don't
care if sports washing is going to increase my GDP
by one percent, will continue doing sports washing. I don't care.
(54:23):
I have one percent growth in GDP from sport and
I'm aiming to get another one point five percent. Call
it what you want, we are going to get that
one point five percent.
Speaker 3 (54:32):
Well, and while that's like mega blunt and I think
that's interesting in and of itself. It is exactly that
kind of diversionary explaining away of like the no, duh,
we're gonna do this. It's like really good for our
gross domestic product and whatever you want to call it.
You call it that, but that's not why we're doing it.
Speaker 2 (54:51):
We're just making money over here.
Speaker 4 (54:53):
Well, I think it was even more so that he's
just not going to even countenance the conversation, right, dignify
it with a response? Right, would the old media training
thing answer the question you wish you were asked? And
the Kingdom is still an extremely dangerous place for those
seen as violating its laws. We can't forget that eighty
one people were executed there on a single day just
(55:15):
back in twenty twenty two. These are very recent events.
So what happens next in golf specifically? I think we
wanted to talk about some more mergers and acquisitions.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
Well, yeah, for since Live Golf was established and they
got Phil Mickelson and several other high profile people, they
were investing billions and billions of dollars starting this new thing. PGA,
the PGA Group or the PGA Tour and Live Golf
have been embroiled in a legal battle, and it's been
ongoing and ongoing, and all of a sudden, and by
(55:50):
the way, there are clear sides that were taken, especially
amongst the professional golfers. We talked about that a little bit.
There are clear sides for supporters who are just of golf,
some people going over to live golf and totally fine
with it in its new version of what golf is,
or could be other people who want that old who
want that old golf feeling and hanging out with PGA.
Speaker 3 (56:13):
Right, like Tiger and right he stayed behind. Yeah, is
just a big name that like went over. Let's see
that became CEO Greg Norman.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
Right, So that you've got these and they were there
were like fighting sides, right, mean things are being said,
bad things are being said about each other basically. Then
all of a sudden in June there's a huge announcement
made by the same guy that I mentioned a quote
from earlier, Jay Monahan, who's the PGA Tour commissioner. He
came out and basically said, okay, guys, we've come to
(56:43):
a deal Live Golf, the PGA Tour as well as
this thing called the dp World Tour. We're all coming
together and we're going to function as one thing. We're
going to unify golf across the world as one thing,
basically by merger efforts and money, which was crazy to everybody,
(57:04):
for everybody, because well especially people on the PGA side,
because it was a battle that was being fought to
prevent this very thing from happening, right from either live
golf overtaking the PGA Tour or from merging with a
bunch of Saudi Arabian money to turn the pg Tour
into something else. And now the commissioner, who was publicly
(57:26):
fighting back and fighting legal battles, just said, now it's cool, guys,
we're all going we're all coming together. Here's a quote
from Jay. What we're talking about today is coming together
to unify the game of golf, and to do so
under one umbrella. We've recognized that together we can have
a far greater impact on this game than we can
(57:47):
working apart. The game of golf is better for what
we've done here today. Very reverent, Well, you know, it
sounds like to me, it sounds like somebody who skied.
Speaker 3 (58:01):
Absolutely, he's spouting a line. For sure, I'm saying the
tone of that though, is so self congratulatory it kind
of makes you throw up in your mouth a little bit. Yeah,
it's a little weird.
Speaker 4 (58:15):
And for now, the story continues. We didn't say much
about the human rights abuses other than to refer to them,
but we have mentioned notable moments. You can learn more
about that in past episodes of our show, as well
as your own searches. The specific initiative for sports overall
(58:36):
and Saudi Arabia acquisition thereof continues at a rapid pace.
Saudi Arabia has recently won the rights to stage the
finals of the Asian Champions League football tournament, then the
twenty thirty four Asian Games, the twenty twenty seven Asian Cup,
the twenty twenty nine Winter Olympics, and is going to
host the twenty thirty four World Cup, by far, one
(58:59):
of the biggest sports events on the planet. So a
lot of people believe more Olympic bids are only a
matter of time. To put it simply, Saudi Arabia's riches
are transforming the landscape of sporting and there's a controversial,
profound shift and influence taking place. While people are going
(59:20):
to raise concerns continually, I think it is highly unlikely
that the sporting world is gonna somehow unanimously turn away
from billions upon billions of dollars.
Speaker 3 (59:29):
That's just not how.
Speaker 4 (59:31):
Sports or business works, right, Nope, it's not really the
m O. And so with this we'll keep an eye
on the story. We hope you do. Two folks, we
would love to hear your thoughts. We don't always do
sports episodes, but we try to make them special when
we get to it. Is this on the up and up?
Or is something else afoot on the on the global
(59:51):
course of golf something they don't want you to know.
Tell us your thoughts. We can't wait to hear your experiences,
especially in just to help us out on some other things,
especially if you can name your favorite weird sport and
maybe tell us what the Saudi government should invest in next.
We tried to be easy to find online.
Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
That's right. You can find us all over your Internet
platforms of choice at the handle Conspiracy Stuff, where we exist,
on Facebook, where we have our Facebook group, Here's where
it gets crazy, on x FKA Twitter, as well as
on YouTube, where you can find glorious quantities of video
content for your perusal. If you'd like to find us
on Instagram and TikTok. However, we are conspiracy stuff show
(01:00:32):
on those platforms.
Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
If you want to call us, call one eight three
three STDWYTK. Call us after you've checked out that ABC
News article PGA Tour Live Golf DP World Tour unify
under one umbrella. What do you think about this as
a conclusion? What are you going to keep watching golf
now that it's something different?
Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
Do you even like golf?
Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
I don't know. Just call us and tell us things
about golf this time or tangentially related. Please, when you
call in, give yourself a cool nickname. Say whatever you'd like.
Speaker 4 (01:01:05):
Just do.
Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
Let us know if we can use your name and
message on the air. If you've got more to say,
then can fit in one voicemail. Why not instead send
us a good old fashioned email.
Speaker 4 (01:01:13):
We are the entity is you read every single piece
of correspondence we receive. It's one of our favorite ways
for you to contact us. Give us the links, give
us the photographs, no word limit. Go as long as
you want. A cool nickname is great. We've got your back.
Let us know if you need to be anonymous, and
if you want to learn about sports washing overall. Check
(01:01:34):
out that study we mentioned by Grant Liberty. It's pretty
in the weeds, but it's worth the time, perhaps most importantly,
for unrelated reasons, again your favorite weird sport? Have you
ever heard of? Toe wrestling? Just the phrase makes us uncomfortable,
But there's a lot out there and we can't wait
to hear your stories about it. So join us out
(01:01:55):
here in the dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hello, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
My name is Matt, my name.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
Is no they call me Ben. We're joined as always
with our super producer Dylan to Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly,
you are here. That makes this the stuff they don't
want you to know. Tonight we are exploring the wide
world of sports and maybe some other things, though perhaps
not in the way you might initially assume, fellow conspiracy realists.
(00:49):
First things first, gentlemen, would you guys consider yourself golfers
or I know we've all played golf at some point, well, I.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Mean, if you're counting many golf then yes, if we've
done it together in fact, but I've never played golf
on a proper course, never even been to a top
golf y'all talking about doing that sometime together too.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
I played golf for the first like actual I guess
grown folk golf for the first time in my life,
very long life, just a few months ago, and it
was entirely due to peer pressure, and I got to
tell you, golf fans in the crowd, I get it.
I see how. It's a lot of fun plus can
(01:29):
definitely be a time and money vampire. But unfortunately, folks,
we could assure you being a crackerjack, talent at putt
putt and fun mini golf is not the same thing.
It doesn't translate to other golf. Now.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
He used to work at the club, right, Did you
ever get out there on the links in between shifts?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I don't want to go too much into it, but
it was a health club and they didn't own a
golf course until well into my tenure there. Once they did,
I was kind of out of the picture. I have
played with my father, my grandfather, my friends several times,
not enough, but my grandfather told me I have a
natural swing, but your handicap.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
I don't know what that means. You want a good one? Hi, Well,
I don't know. Do you tell me?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
It's terribly fun once you are out there, and it
is a nice relaxing I would say sport. If you're
going to join a sport that is one of the
most relaxing while also having some of the most intense
micro moments in any sport. So I don't know it's thrilling,
I would say so.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
We'll have to check with our producer, Dylan, But for
now it's fair to say the three of us here
are people who have golfed, but perhaps don't consider ourselves golfers,
especially not professional golfers. If you were, like more than
one hundred and twenty million Americans, more than a third
of the population, you, like us, have played golf, either
(02:57):
on a course or off a course, or you f
followed it on television or oddline, read about the game.
You may have even listened to a golf related podcast.
Some folks love it, some folks hate it. But there's
no denying golf is a big business, and you know
what happens with big businesses, folks, Golf has become embroiled
in what may well be a global conspiracy. Here are
(03:26):
the facts, all right. I feel like we're increasingly colliding
the world's of ridiculous history and stuff they don't want
you to know. But the history of golf is fascinating,
and in my opinion, if you go to the ancient
parts of it, it's incredibly endearing.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
It really is. It's also one of those parallel thinking
type things where it's like people have been hitting rollly
things with sticks since time immemorial, and it's just a
matter of organizing it in different ways. And why not
just hit it a long distance and shoot for a
tiny hole that seems like a fun diversion. And this
was first kind of envision back in Scotland in the
(04:05):
fifteenth century, possibly building on again some older games found
in China, one in particularly called chiu Wan, and other
similar predecessors in France, Persia and England. This is yeah again,
you find something that's laying around and implement of some
sort falling tree branch and then something rolling, figure out
(04:27):
where to hit it where it should go, and your
brain just kind of fills in the gaps and a
game is born.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
That's yeah, That's what I like about that, the idea
that there's something classic human about finding a cool stick.
I don't know about you all, but I am unapologetically
a fan of finding cool sticks and walking around with them,
especially during a hike.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
You know.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
I sometimes I don't know, when you pick them up,
when you feel like you're gandolf with a nice cool stick.
You might find at some point multiple times in history,
some and found a cool stick, and they found something
like a ball. Probably started off with the rock, if
we're being honest, and then later they made up rules
about the quote unquote right way to hit it, and
(05:10):
as you said, how to hit it, we also want
to shout out the ancient sport of Roman Paganica. Pardon
my mispronunciation there, but.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
That one had a leather ball that was right stuffed
with wool, yes, and you just knock it around with
a bent stick.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
And we're unclear on exactly the nature of the bent stick.
It's it's very odd and check out if you want
to learn more about ancient sports, check out our upcoming
episode on Weird Sports for ridiculous history. But as you
were saying, Noel, the predecessor of the modern version of
golf comes to us in Scotland in the fourteen hundreds,
in the fifteenth century, and ever since then, golf's popularity
(05:50):
has only grown. Golf in North America is older than
the United States. In North America.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Well, it's interesting too, because golf is one of these
sports too that kind of combines sport with architecture and landscaping.
And it's like, sure, you'll have like famous baseball stadiums,
but it's all the same baseball diamond. You know, golf
course is something to be designed and fussed over, and
it's sort of like a demonstration of opulence too, because
(06:16):
you know, you can literally terraform the earth and create
this labyrinthine golf course.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Well yeah, and it's a way to draw in highly
influential people to your neck of the woods, right to
hang out, play a little game, maybe have some drinks,
a couple of meals and meetings with people who, again
are generally highly influential. And I think it's been used
that way for centuries.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Yeah, which, well, we'll definitely have to get to there,
because you can also say that about many professional sports.
There's a reason people fight to have a sports organization
in their neck of the global woods, in their I mean,
if you look at the US, people have been playing
some version of golf in North America since the early
(07:06):
sixteen hundreds, likely introduced by the Dutch and the Scottish.
As we know the Dutch settlers went on to become
patricians of the United States. To that point earlier made
about influence, it was still centuries before the foundation of
the first US official golf club Saint Andrew's Golf founded
in Yonkers in eighteen eighty eight. And I don't know
(07:28):
about you, guys, I don't know too much about Yonkers
other than I like the name. There's something Soussian about it.
So this is now the one fact I know about Yonkers.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
It's like a It's not a borough of New York exactly.
It's more of it's like a township or something. It's
its own thing, but it is near you know, New
York City for sure.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Just weirdly, guys, the Piedmont Driving Club that we mentioned
earlier was founded in eighteen eighty seven. Wow, And just
thinking about these are organizations of again influential people already
getting together and forming another little club thing that they get.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
To do, which they've been doing for a long time.
You know, Europe's aristocrats met it exclusive salons and clubs.
I guess the difference there for Saint Andrews then, just
so we're clear, is that that was the first one
founded just for golf.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yeah. It's interesting though, because you don't really think about
influential people getting together to play a game of touch
football and have influential meetings. Yeah, Like there's something about
golf where the individual anybody can play it, not anyone
can be good at it, but it's kind of this
equalizer in a way, and there's an exclusivity to it,
(08:35):
and you play in small groups.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
It's not a sport, and think about the way the
sport works. You have a rotationary period and you don't
have a very tight clock often so this naturally generates conversation.
But bowling is not the same because in bowling people
rotate quickly, so you don't have as much time to speak.
(08:58):
But also it's not as physically demanding, and a lot
of times when people play golf, part of the game
involves hanging out before or after grabbing some snacks, nashin
and then talking about business deals. That's I would argue,
that's part of the reason golf is so popular. It's
a major economic draw. Just to finish that part. Most
(09:19):
people don't want to compete professionally necessarily. They say, you
play for about three years and you get a rough
idea your skill level or your potential. But it's incredibly
popular because it helps in business. It is not uncommon
to hear professionals from across industries say a good game
of golf or playing golf is a pivotal moment in
(09:41):
their careers or their negotiations or their promotions.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Absolutely, well, that's exactly what you said, Ben. It's the
walk from one hole to the next hole, right from
the place where the previous hole finishes to where the
next win begins.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
It's a pretty text for a walk and talk you know,
constantly for eighteen of them.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yes, I cannot I think we cannot stress that enough,
like how impactful that has been through the years and
just the things that have occurred in history because of
a maybe a single game of golf or a series
of games of golf.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
And also it's at the same time, it functions as
an extended version of you know, the lunch meeting or
the firm handshake, because a lot of people pride themselves
on getting a good read on folks, especially and you know,
in the world of private business. So they'll I've heard
(10:36):
things like, you know, show me a guy how how
a guy plays golf, and I'll tell you how he
works in the boardroom. Well, it's why one of my
favorite old Cadrey insults from business tycoons is that guy
cheats at golf because what they're really saying is they
think he's also a shark at business and not ethical.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Wait, so that's a compliment.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Sounds like a winner to me. Why are you kidding me?
Speaker 3 (11:03):
But then there's also so many business terms that spring
from golf, like the idea of having a big swing,
you know what I mean, like take like a big
grand efforts, or like some sort of like big forward
thinking risky move is like a big swing, you know.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
And golf and business are inextricably linked in a way
that is somewhat unique. Right, every major sport has this
huge business link to it. We talked oh links haha.
We mentioned some startling stats about people playing golf in
the US, but to get our heads around tonight's episode,
I think we need to consider financial stats as well.
(11:39):
The economic impact of golf in twenty twenty two was
one hundred billion dollars, and that's an increase from the
last time they ran the numbers in twenty sixteen, when
it was only eighty four billion dollars. Because this is
another unique thing about golf, Unlike a lot of other sports,
it flourish during the pandemic. It's perfect if you have
(12:03):
to worry about social distancing.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
And Ben, I mean, I'm assuming this number is referring
to the economics of golf courses, of the money golfing generates,
perhaps also on professional level.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's you nailed at NOL because it's
things like not just the fees people pay to go
to a course, but things like there were sometimes risdiculous
money you can you can spend on clubs, both you know,
golf clubs and golf club Hey, I got myself in
a pickle there, both golf clubs as the implement and
(12:38):
golf clubs as the location medium.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
But it also just it occurred to me though that
this number, if you think about all the business deals
that golf generates, would be way higher in the trillions,
probably an immeasurable.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Number, right, Like the endorsements, no, no, but even just
the deals.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
People are making whilst playing golf, you could ye as
another economic impact of golf. Right, it's on.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Think.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I think it's no accident that mar A Lago is
such an important function within Donald Trump's career and world, right,
because it is where you can have those conversations, and
he's an avid golfer, and it just occurs that.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Way, and business tycoons have on several occasions accused former
President Trump of cheating Nikola.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
I have heard that golf, you pick up your you
drop your ball illegally, or you maybe not get some
strokes back basically, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
I guess. I mean. Also, if you're playing golf with
your buddies, did I'm sure it's a very different game,
kind of the honor.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
System, right, because you're keeping score for yourself. There's no
like referee or official watching over you.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
And I didn't want to I don't want to be
labor is pulling up the quotes even though they are funny.
But I have to say, in the interest of fairness
and being very apolitical here, it is also possible that
the business tycoons accusing each other of cheating at golf
might just be sore losers. M you know. So anyway,
golf is not without controversy. No sport is. There's all
(14:12):
the drama between players. You know, We've got this almost
Shakespearean tragedies of the of the great athletes who find
themselves fallen on hard time. Shout out Tiger Woods. He
did disagreements, but that's not what we're here for tonight,
because to really get into this. We have to go
past the US and Scotland guys all the way out
(14:33):
to the Middle East. This might finally be the episode
that gets us jammed up at customs. But the Kingdom
of Saudi Arabia never been.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
No, right, no. Many of you listening will probably be
aware that this is an incredibly rish nation, incredibly wealthy.
It's located in the Middle East, home of the most
important holy sites to the Muslim faith, and also home
to incredibly dense and rich fossil fuel reserves or fossil
(15:05):
fuel deposits.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, oil has been very important for ye old KSA,
and I think one of the main things that we're
going to be looking at today is what do you
do as a giant, wealthy country when you know that
your primary resource that has built all the wealth is
beginning to fade away from popular opinion right or to
(15:31):
be soured amongst popular opinion of the world.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
What do you do.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
Well? And if you join us for past episodes, you
know that this is something the kingdom has been wrestling
with for quite some time, for decades now, because people
in the petroleum industry had the predictive science about the
decline of fossil fuels far before the public did so.
(15:59):
The ruling powers, not just in Saudi Arabia, but in
other oil rich nations, especially in the Middle East, they
knew about this, and if you are running a long
term sustainable economy, you never wanted reliant upon a single
export or product or type of product. Right, So they
have made a pivot. Maybe there will be a future
(16:19):
episode about some of their other things, but from now,
let's leave that right there and introduce you to the
other piece. We all we have to say, we have
to acknowledge the issue in the room. Look Saudi Arabia
is a huge deal, not just for fossil fuel. The
most important holy sites of the Muslim faith are located there.
You've also likely heard of the huge problems the nation
(16:41):
has historically had with their human rights abuses, their treatment
of women, LGBTQ, foreign workers essentially being enslaved, they vivisected Kashaki,
They're terrible with journalists. They're known for very harsh enforcement
and interpretation of Islam. The list goes on. It's not
(17:03):
a democracy. It's a very powerful place. If you've met
folks from Saudi Arabia, you know they're awesome because people
are pretty much people wherever you go, but people are
not the country. No, And.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Gosh, can I just attempt this full name Ben?
Speaker 5 (17:21):
Yes, yes, we just call him, but his full name
is Salomon, Ben Abdullah Ziz, Ben Abdul Raman, Ben Faisal,
Ben Turkey, Ben Abdullah, Ben Mohammad Ben Saud.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Great work, Nolan, Yeah, and everybody wondering Ben there is
spelled b I n like of yeah, like son of
yea of that family or of that lineage. You nailed that.
You you nailed that. We can see why people don't
always say his full name. Uh So that is the
person uh nol Us named is the king of Saudi Arabia.
(18:02):
But the guy we hear about most in the West
is the current Crown Prince and Prime Minister, Mohammed ben Salman.
And that's the guy much younger. You'll hear a lot
of quotes from him in the news. Will have some
for you this evening. He is definitely the policymaker of
the land, and he's done controversial, frankly brutal things. But
(18:25):
he's also known for instituting a series of sweeping reforms
that are in theory downright revolutionary for a country that
is this conservative. It's called Vision twenty thirty.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
So in addition to kind of pulling back on some
of the historical restrictions and minor law changes, it also
aims to do what could be referred to kind of
as a rebrand, sort of a pr refresh of Saudi
Arabia's as you mentioned Ben, patently pretty negative image to visitors,
to outsiders, tourists and invest abroad. There was a particularly
(19:02):
snarky journalist that you found a quote from Ben who
put it this way, Saudi Arabia really wants.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
You to think it's cool, which is, you know, I
don't know how they would react to that title. While
it may sound cavalier. Stephen A. Cook, writing for Foreign
Policy is correct Vision twenty thirty. A lot of people
are still pretty skeptical about the scope of it and
the timeline. As you can imagine, they want to do
(19:30):
a lot of stuff by twenty thirty, but right now
oil is still seventy five percent of Saudi Arabia's fiscal
revenue easily and forty percent of its GDP. It's it's
the right move.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Well, yeah, but I'm a big part of American policy
when whatever side of the aisle you know, people fall politically,
is to reduce our reliance on foreign oil. Like, that's
a pretty bipartisan issue, right.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Which is weird because the US is also in the
grand scheme of things and a fossil fuel rich.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Country, but nowhere near as much so as Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Right, no, no, no, But US crude oil exports reached
a record high just last year. So when you hear
people say the US is fighting to not be reliant
on foreign fuel, it's important to look at the current
numbers too. I know for sure this is exciting to
some people, even though it's deeply imperfect. They can be
(20:34):
seen as steps in the right direction human rights that
people have always deserved that are maybe slowly coming to
pass in this nation. But to others, granted, this is
an insincere performative dance for approval on the international stage.
This leads us to one of the weirdest controversies. Shout
out to our buddy Brian Towey, a type of conspiracy
(20:56):
called sports washing. What is it? I'll tell you after
a word from our sponsors, here's where it gets crazy,
all right, what is sports washing?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Well, according to Britannica money Sportswashing is the use of
an athletic event by an individual or government, or a
corporation or another group to promote or burnish the individuals
or group's reputation, especially amid controversy or scandal. What so
they use sports to make themselves look good.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Whilst now I'm gonna see you here, guys, let's we
just let's have a good old friendly game of sports.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
We're Russia, we love the Olympics.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Don't worry about the fifteen of nineteen terrorists that were
from Saudi Arabia that allegedly caused the nine to eleven attacks.
Don't worry about Jamal ka Shogi, who was a journalist
who got exiled because he said some stuff about the
King's son Wen Golff.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
You guys get that right. You guys know what golf's about.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
If you don't like golf, I've got other stuff. Yeah.
This is similar. It's a portmanteau similar to greenwashing or
which wash when yeah, which is when companies try to
distract from their environmental damage by appearing to do like
recycling programs are often accused of being greenwashing, and my
favorite part of this definition is that list of things
(22:26):
that might do it where they say individual, corporation, government,
or other group. I kept thinking what falls into miscellaneous?
Is it like your local improv group does sports washing?
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Like?
Speaker 4 (22:38):
How small can a group be? How big do you
have to be to participate in sports washing? I guess
you have to be big enough to have a pro
sports team.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Improv can be pretty controversial. Ben say some pretty inflammatory
stuff in these sketches, But also I retract pink washing.
That's different, though it sounds similar. Pink washing is more
the sort of sale of like stuff geared towards you know,
women in a kind of offensive pandory way.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Huh Okay, Okay, yeah, I bet, I bet there aren't
tons of portmanteaus with washing right other than brainwashing that
will we'll run into. It's weird, though, because sportsa washing
is a pretty new term. It was printed in first
in print in twenty fifteen and was not referring to
Russia nor to Saudi Arabia. It was referring to Azerbaijan.
(23:27):
They had taken these actions with the European Games, and
a lot of critics said this is entirely a cynical
attempt to take focus off some of the horrible human
rights abuses you are committing.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Yeah, and groups like Amnesty International have used this term
as well to criticize other countries with similar controversies, trying
to kind of cover up their, you know, sins with
rollicking sporting events, including Russia's hosting of the twenty four
teen Olympic Games like you were mentioning or alluding to
(24:02):
a little while ago, ben and the twenty eighteen World Cup,
because again, these are just kind of these events are
we use them in America in a similar way sometimes right.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
To cover up well, national anthem is at the top
of every ball game.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Sure, but like sporting events, there is this kind of
unifying quality to them that can be used propagandistically. And
I think, you know, I'm maybe I'm overstating the case,
but it feels like America can be guilty of this too,
just in terms of the fervor around sports, where it's like, oh,
look at this this. I mean, it's like bread and circuses, right,
(24:40):
It's a way of distracting from a fed up stuff.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Yeah, but it is weird. So I'm thinking about Olympic
Games in the United States, right. Two thousand and two
is when Salt Lake City happened. That was just before
we entered Iraq, right after nine to eleven and all
of that stuff. That's when one of the main places
where the United States has been accused of, you know,
some human rights stuff, right, Not that the United States
(25:07):
isn't accused of human rights stuff in places across the
world pretty much at all times with military actions and
like stuff that isn't quite a military action. But I
don't know that it's the same necessarily.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Oh no, I don't think it's the same. But I'm
just saying I can see the value. How sports are
clearly kind of like an obvious, you know, choice for
doing this kind of thing. Yeah, we don't do it
in the same way that these countries are doing it
because our reputation is kind of our reputation.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
It seems like they's a little fluid. I'll tell you.
I'll tell you why they're too. No, because the the
thing that we have to remember in this context is
that the US already has huge cultural exports of soft
power that other countries may not possess at that same level.
So if you're the home of Hollywood and you have
(25:56):
one of the biggest entertainment industries in the world. Then
you're already getting a lot of that washing to distract
from things. Check out our previous episode on the Cozy
relationship and the sweetheart deals. The US military industrial complex
will make with you as a director or a production
studio so long as the army looks good in your movie. Yep,
(26:19):
they'll just let you drive the tanks. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Which, by the way, Saudi Arabia has a big old
hand in Hollywood with its Vision twenty to thirty plan
that we were talking about.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
So basically we wrote the playbook for a lot of
this stuff, is what I think the takeaway is here.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Well, when the case of sports washing, it's strange because,
like so many other things, the term itself, the language
for it, is new, but the strategy is old. Beans.
One of the most famous early examples of sports washing
before we all collectively learned the term, is the nineteen
thirty six Nazi Olympics. The Nazi already hosted the Olympics,
(27:01):
both because they wanted to look like the good guys
are a legitimate part of the international order, and then
also to them just as importantly, they wanted to prove
their disturbing pseudo scientific beliefs.
Speaker 6 (27:15):
About race, and uh it blew up in their face
because yes, Jesse Owens right, they were wrong, kicked ass
he like absolutely blew away all of their aryan entries
in track and field.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
And it was like a hugely embarrassing kind of pr
debacle for.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Old Hiller right, because their beliefs were and beat me
here at c Palin Tryers their beliefs were bullshit and
easily disprove it. So this this question is what all
right sportswa washing? What does this have to do to
South with Saudi Arabia. Even if you don't know much
about golf, and we're not the golf encyclopedias that some
(27:53):
people are, you've probably heard of the PGA Tour, right,
even if you've just been at David Busters and played
one of the golf games with the little rollie ball,
it's the big one.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
I actually really like playing golf video games, whether they
be kind of goofy, you know, Mario type golf video
games or some of the PGA Tour ones.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
I find it a little bit relaxing and I find
it meditative.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
I enjoy it. Yeah, it's fun. It's a good chill
type of game to play that does involve some precision,
and it's sort of like a languid kind of pace
to it, and I can see why it's appealing to
some people. However, watching it on television, I do not
understand entirely. It just blows my mind to the people
will sit and watch golf on TV.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
It's a professional golfers association. These are pros guys.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
The PGA. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Near where we live in Atlanta, we have a pg
where I live. In particular, in East Lake area of Atlanta,
there is the East Lake Golf Course which hosts a
PGA tour and it clogs stuff up real bad, you
know when it's happening because it's hard to get around.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
But PGA is the big dog too. By the way,
PGA is the the organizer of professional golf tours in
North America. Back in twenty nineteen, there was a would
be rival that I guess smelled the money. So back
in twenty nineteen, a would be upstart must have smelled
(29:17):
the money. Entered the proverbial chat. They wanted to usurp
the role of the PGA, and in a burst of creativity,
they called themselves the Premiere Golf League, the pg L.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
It's one letter different.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
It's cool, yeah, but that sounds like Vanilla Ice saying
that he didn't rip off that drum track.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
It is funny though, because they definitely intentionally left the
P and the G in there because p stands are
something different. It's premiere, which is a little more vague
than professional. I would argue, you know, yeah, we're the best,
We're the one of the matters.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
Which is like, what those kind of the strategy for
those sort of people, you know, like, can't it, will
steal it. That's a common strategy, right, because if you
think about the brass tacks they're saying, all right, what
if someone's buying and I guarantee this conversation happened. What
if someone's buying PGA tickets for a loved one and
(30:13):
they don't know much about golf at all, They can't
get PGA, but they see PGL and they're like, oh,
that's mostly the same, right, you know, like when your
grandma buys you a video game for the wrong console,
that's kind of the that's kind of the idea. But
they also, you know, this happens all the time in sports.
(30:35):
So this group a Premier Golf League. They're in talks
with Saudi investors early on and they say, let's get
some kind of financial partnership going. Yes, they're probably playing
golf when they added these conversations too. Yeah, it's true.
But in twenty twenty something something went awry. Because Saudi
Arabia's sovereign wealth fund is known as the Public Investment Fund.
(31:00):
They said, hey, we'll make our own I'm not going
to quote Bender from Futurama, but they said, we'll make
our own golf league.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Oh. I thought the PGL was that thing. I got it.
So the PGL was like another American interest that Saudi's
were investing in, and they're like, you know, let's take
this a step further. We'll launch something called the l
I V or LIV Golf Investments under the Golf Saudi Moniker.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Right, we're usurping the usurpers.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yeah, it's wild. What a power move.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
And the Public Investment Fund is a story, it's all
its own. That's where you see multi billions of dollars
worth of investments and all sorts of things that you
probably don't recognize as influenced by this money.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
This is something where I guess there's some sort of
committee behind making these decisions, and the decisions are pretty
shadowy in terms of how things get done or where
the money goes.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Yeah. Yeah, just to be clear, the citizens in Saudi
Arabia do not get devoted.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
But it's public.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Yeah, well, there's public information because of some lawsuits specifically
that we're involved between the PGA and LIV that we're
going to talk about. We know some of those investments.
Now you guys might if we just go over a
couple of them, just so we have some context of
what they invest in. So this PIF has holdings as
of oh gosh, this is from April twenty twenty three,
(32:20):
so this is probably changed. It's in a giant investment fund,
so they move money around and shares around a lot.
But as of April twenty twenty three, they owned eight
point nine billion dollars worth of Lucid stock, which is
that car manufacturer, three point two billion dollars worth of
Activision Blizzard, two point nine billion in Electronic Arts, two
(32:43):
point three billion in Uber, eight hundred and eighty million
dollars in Live Nation. They own a ton like hundreds
of millions of dollars in Meta Starbucks PayPal, Microsoft, Carnival
as in like Cruises, Costco, JP, Morgan Chase, and Blackrock,
and there's so many more. Black Rock will by the way,
the real estate investment firm thing. They also own a
(33:08):
ton of Nintendo. They own eight point five eight percent
of Nintendo right now, that's a lot.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Yeah, and that's not a controlling stake, but it is
an influential stake. And yes, black Rock not to be
confused with the black Stone. The Rock set into the
eastern corner of the Kabba, the Public Investment Fund before
we before we go back to the golf stuff. It
has an estimated total asset of nine hundred and twenty
(33:37):
five billion dollars nine hundred and twenty five billion.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Let's just make it a cool trillion man, you know.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
I know, right, They're so so close, right, And the
purpose of this investment is to diversify the economy, to
bring Saudi Arabia further into the international order and sports
in specific. For this episode, it became a great way
to accomplish that. In October twenty twenty one, Golf Saudi
(34:10):
division of the Public Investment Fund. Because it's that big,
they have a bunch of divisions who just work on
specific ideas golf. Saudi launched Live Golf Investments LIV. You know,
like how the cool apps don't put the E at
the end of their stuff sometimes.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
I always found this silent letters to be a bit obnoxious.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Anyway, So yeah, you think they're presumptuous a little bit.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
They really insisted on them.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
So you must hate French.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
I enjoy the French.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Yeah. Okay, So there's a legendary golfer named Greg Norman.
I got excited about this, but it's not a guy,
I know, it's just a very common name, Greg.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Yeah, I did.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
For a second, I thought, oh snap, Greg. He is
named the CEO PIF Fund and live as billions bot
billions of profits from fossil fuels. So they go around
to all of the biggest names in the world of
golf and they say, hey, how much money.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Well, they need a face, they need a recognizable face
for their operations, somebody who's beloved, you know, by followers
of the game of golf. And they you know, went
to the top names, starting with folks like Tiger Woods
who did turn it down, whether it be for philosophical reasons,
ethical reasons, or they just didn't hit his rate.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
His quote, he said it was as a matter of
loyalty because good for TIGERSGA had done so much for
him and for the game of golf, and they offered
him more than seven hundred million dollars. Dude.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
ABC News said eight hundred million dollars, which, again, those
kinds of numbers. What's the difference between seven hundred million
and eight hundred million. I don't know that I could
really tell you.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Yeah, we don't have a nine hundred billion and a trillion,
you know, I mean, it's like, might as well be
infinity money.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
We Yeah, we don't have the specifics obviously of the deal,
but most news sources are going to estimate it as
saying between more than seven hundred up to eight hundred million.
And then so Tiger Woods and other people said no,
and then other golfers like Greg Norman.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
I do not know.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
It's crazy. I feel like I know three people named
Greg Norman.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
I just know him from growing up around golf and Augusta, Georgia.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
Other people like him and Phil Mickelson. Then, just to
show this up, they didn't say yes, they did play ball.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Yeah, I understand, Like, the only reason I have any
association with names like this is because growing up in
my hometown, which is the home of the Augusta National
where the Master's golf tournament is played, and it is
a big deal in the city of Augusta.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Yeah, guys like Bubba Watson, which was a big deal.
I remember there were news stories when he went over
to live as well, and he was just like, hey, sorry, guys,
this is about my family a money.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
By Yeah, golf clubs are expensive, which I was just
learning to.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
By the way, Yaviar's expensive.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Just to bring in this ABC News article because I
think it speaks to why this is such a weird situation.
ABC News is talking about this, right, They posted an
article in March of this year called Live Golf's controversial
growth raises questions over Saudi sportswashing, right, the very thing
(37:27):
we're talking about here, and ABC News the person who
wrote this had to write this in the article.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Quote the PIF we're talking about here, the Public Investment Fund,
which also owns a minority stake in Disney, the parent
company of ABC News and Hulu. Again, like all of
these companies together, the person writing this has to make
this concession because Saudi Arabia is investing so much money
across entertainment and sports and all these things that literally
(37:56):
to even talk about it often as a journalist, you
have to be aware that you are probably being touched
by this Saudi money.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
Right, Saudi Arabia. Also, I would say it's less a
concession and more like the ethics of journalism, Like when
NPR says short of our funding is here, it's just
to just to get in from of disclosure, right, full
disclosure maybe. But with this, it also reminds me our
parent company, iHeart is associated with Live Nation, and who
(38:25):
who has a stake in Live Nation?
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Well that's yeah, yeah, exactly this one. But there's according
to that article, this Sovereign Wealth Fund has invested thirteen
point five billion dollars into sports since it started, Right,
So if you've got that much money just going into sports,
and then you know that there's like one point three
trillion dollars in total that has been invested like since
(38:50):
the inception of this twenty thirty thing, and then you
know that all this money is just spreading out. When
I'm saying like everybody's being touched by it, it just
means you there's a level of full disclosure is one thing,
but there's a level of anyone writing about it has
to just be a little more careful absolutely when they're
(39:11):
doing that.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
Well, you know, like you said, the Saudi money touches
so much industry, and for a good reason are they
investing in sports beyond the whole sports watching of it.
It's just good business. It's a way making a.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Crap ton of money, and everybody wants it.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
That's a great point to you, Noel, because the PIF,
the Public Investment Fund, began in nineteen seventy one, so
even the numbers you're getting now about their total financial
assets are not counting other things that have grown over time,
right because compound interest I think was Mark Twain had
a great quote about compound interest, which I will slow
(39:49):
us down with now. But the point you made that
really stands out to me there, Noal, is that if
your goal is to diversify your economy, right, then of
course you want to invest in a whole bunch of
other things. It would be cartoonish to say, we're too
reliant on fossil fuels, so let's invest everything in corn,
(40:10):
you know what I mean? Because now you're just too
little corn. It's fine a little. The corn is fine
as a treat. But now otherwise you're taking all your
eggs and just putting them in a different basket made
of corn husks. Perhaps, so it's not necessarily just on
the economic structure and strategy, there is not itself inherently sinister.
The problem comes when we consider that in the context
(40:33):
of all these other controversies surrounding the kingdom and live golf.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Well, you just have to consider how many corporations out
there are wanting an investment from Saudi Arabia because you can.
If you can get two billion dollars injected into whatever
your company is doing, that's amazing. And everybody's looking for
that year over a year, quarter over a quarter increase.
And if you've got like two twenty one hundred billion
dollars to play with your and he's going to do
(41:00):
just fine.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
And if you can keep it quiet to avoid controversy, right,
if you can get it through a subsidiary of a subsidiary,
the money spends the same and you can possibly avoid
the bad optics or the.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Great optics of Hey, investors, he just got two more
billion dollars to play with. And then stock shoots up,
and then everybody makes money because Saudi Arabia has got
you know, a minority share.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
Now, yeah, my point was that I think a lot
of them are getting money through subsidiaries in a way
that helps obscure the origin of Saudi Arabia and industries
where that might be sensitive and maybe I mean correct.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
Oh, I think it's certainly part of it. But I
think it's also on a pr level easy to explain
the investment away because it's like, duh, we're business people.
We are investing in things that make us money. It
doesn't have to be some sort of nefarious plot.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
You know.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
I'm not saying the two things don't coexist, but I
think it's easy to explain it away on a public
relationship level by just saying this is just good business.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
And taking it back to Live Golf for the record,
you know, people love golf obviously, obviously, people love sports,
people love golf. Live Golf has always claimed that we
want to holistically improve the health of professional golf. That's
quote from their website and to quote, help unlock the
sports potential. A lot of the old Guard was again
(42:25):
pretty miffed about this, and they're some of the most
strident critics of Saudi Arabia's moves in this field, and
a lot of longtime critics of Saudi Arabia for other
stuff on the human rights spectrum. They just said, Saudi
Arabia is doing this not because they like golf, not
because it's a good investment for them economically, but because
(42:46):
it's a geopolitical conspiracy. This is to improve the soft
power of the country, their international reputation and say like, hey, yeah,
we're doing evil things to human beings with our left hand.
Look at us. We also have the golf at our
right hand, so pay attention to that hand.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
But ben are they being very publicly forward in branding
and the like associating the country with they are Okay,
oh yeah, I want to hear more about that.
Speaker 4 (43:16):
Yeah, for sure, We're get do great. Great quote Ardi.
So there's a news conference ahead of Live Golf's first event,
and reporters were to the thing about journalistic ethics and integrity.
Reporters were asking questions like Phil Mickelson, who we mentioned
(43:36):
just a few moments ago. He was asked directly, quote,
isn't there a danger that you're seeing as a tool
of sports washing and the sports washing question came up
over and over again in these Western press conferences, and
then another human rights group released a great study. They're
called Grant Liberty and their report on Saudi Arabian sports
(43:57):
washing efforts. They take it as a given. They just say, look,
because of all the money the potential in this sports
as if you think about it, well it's not on
the level of fossil fuel, but it is a multi
billion dollar industry. They said, now they're trying to lighten
their image. I don't know, that's the thing. This is
(44:17):
the question I have for you guys. We we know
people try to start new sports orgs all the time.
It's a huge coup to host a global sporting event,
from racing to the World Cup in the Olympics. Is
it inherently sinister?
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Well, that was the question that I think I was
our Devil's advocating for earlier. You know, just the idea
that it can at very least be explained away, that
it is not inherently sinister. This just makes sense. We
love this stuff, we love the sport. We want to help,
you know, make it better. And I believe that group
that you quoted, Ben or that you cited Grant Liberty
(44:55):
kind of summed it up exactly that way. Sports has loved,
they said, and played around the world. That is a
giant unifying force, and it's also a multi billion dollar industry.
By associating themselves with sport, leaders are seeking to position
their country in line with that magic. They want to
bask in reflected glory and like you said, ben lighten
their image.
Speaker 4 (45:16):
Yeah, well, there's also a convenience factor. Maybe I don't
think this applies to Saudi Arabia's rulers, to be honest,
but if you have the big global event for any
particular sport in your country, you get national pride. And
also everybody who lives there doesn't have to spend thousands
of dollars, you know, on plane flights or traveling by
(45:38):
cargo ship or rail, and they don't have to spend
thousands of dollars on hotels. I don't know if that
applies to the ruling powers of Saudi Arabia. I don't
think they're worried about like getting the cheapest flight on
Delta or whatever.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
No, probably not.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
I want to point one thing out, guys, because I
think I think it has exactly to do with this.
There's this group called nine to Eleven Families United, and
it's shared by someone named Terry Strata, whose husband was
killed in the nine to eleven attacks. And when Live
Golf was first announced back in twenty twenty one, this
group came forward and began protesting and writing and speaking
(46:20):
publicly about it because of the at the time in
twenty twenty one, more and more information that was coming
out right before that about how Saudi Arabia's intelligence arms
or at least government officials likely had something to do
with the September eleventh attacks. And we're talking actual intelligence,
(46:40):
not like just people writing conspiracy theories online. This was
a real news story that was starting to happen. If
you look at pro Publica, they put out a story
this year on September eleventh titled at least two Saudi
officials may have deliberately assisted nine to eleven hijackers. New
evidence suggests this is one of the primary stories that
(47:03):
exist in the Western world and especially in the United States,
when it comes to when you think about Saudi Arabia,
what do you think about? And if this stuff is
in the news cycle pretty consistently, then live Golf is
one way as we're saying here, So just shift what
people are thinking about. The first couple of things they
think about. When they hear Saudi Arabia, right, or the
(47:24):
kingdom or the prince or the king or something like that,
you think, oh, yeah, so that's a live golf guys, right,
not this.
Speaker 4 (47:33):
Yeah yeah, that's definitely one of the criticism or that's
the fundamental piece of sportswa washing, you know, going into
the timing of something just like soachy and just like
the Nazi Olympics. But we also have to ask, you know,
with something in the magnitude of nine to eleven, how
much could golf move the needle or is it more
(47:53):
death by a thousand paper cuts? Because we know, you know,
it reminds me of the pr moves on a much
smaller level that different agencies will do where they want
something to get off the first page of search results,
so they figure out something else to happen, right, like
a new news story to be manufactured and appear to
(48:14):
go viral.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
But the PGA Commissioner J Monahan, when live golf was announced,
basically jumped on with the exact talking points the nine
to eleven families United was saying, saying, this is basically
a moral issue, more so than even a money issue
or appearance issue. It's just crazy to think that that
(48:38):
is where it existed, at least in the minds of
the people behind the PGA, when they were looking at
a competitor like Live showing up.
Speaker 4 (48:46):
I'm glad that points brought up there, because yes, the
international public renown is a huge factor. But we have
to ask, in all fairness, all the evil corruption and
conspiracy vivisection of journalists aside, what makes Saudi Arabia different.
This is a question I have, and I think it's
a very important question to that note about the PGA.
(49:07):
How much of the criticism is valid spoiler a lot?
And how much is being propagated by older forces in
those organizations like the PGA. How much are they acting
out of self preservation versus out of noble aspirations for
human rights. As sticky as it is to say, I
will posit that both things can be true at once agreed,
(49:37):
So in our notes we have this as the part
that might get us banned from Saudi Arabia, the one
that might get us jammed up at Saudi Arabian customs.
Saudi Arabia is not just getting into golf. They're going
into sports overall in a big, big way. Some controlling
stakes were in various other industries were mentioned earlier, and
(49:57):
we tease that there was more than just golf of
foots here. But you can look at the links. The
Public Investment Fund owns controlling stakes, not just minority stakes,
controlling stakes in Newcastle United, for Saudi domestic football or
soccer teams. It had a stake in Formula One's parent company,
(50:19):
McLaren Group. And then they're they're getting big into esports too, Right,
what's the difference between esports? Guys, this is such a
dumb question, but I'm not afraid of dumb questions. What's
the difference to esports and sports video games?
Speaker 3 (50:34):
Isn't esports like professional league like leagues? Oh that's okay, Yeah, yeah,
you're right, you're right.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
Esport is any game first version, shooters, you know, like
those Dota games, any of that stuff.
Speaker 3 (50:47):
On a competitive, like professional level.
Speaker 2 (50:49):
Right, you can have sports games esports.
Speaker 4 (50:54):
That makes sense. And they also got a some of
us in the crowdle like this. They also have a
mind already stake in a rival to the UFC, the
US Professional Fighters League. So yet again we see the
letters play. There's the PFL and the UFC their ideas.
They're going to launch an MMA league and a super
fight division, all located in Saudi Arabia. Oh. Also, pro
(51:18):
wrestling is big. We know some folks who work for
WWE and have traveled to Saudi Arabia to stage events
there were It's pretty much everything boxing, horse racing, sailing, tennis.
You know what I'm excited about, Saudi Arabian sumo wrestling.
Maybe you finally get a ticket that's not I don't
(51:40):
know if that's happen.
Speaker 3 (51:41):
Isn't that cool? I mean, so that's the thing that's
interesting to me too. It's like sports aren't considered cultural
appropriation because it's like, even if a sport was invented
in a certain country, after a certain point, it becomes
kind of this universal thing. But like sumo wrestling, I
mean like that, I know you're sort of joking, but
where where did the line get drawn in terms of like,
but culture is associated with a particular type of event.
Speaker 4 (52:03):
That's a good question, man, because we know that there
are non Japanese national folks who have become professional sumo wrestlers.
I'm now I'm becoming the problem because I'm wondering if
it would just be easier to get a ticket to
a sumo event Saudi Arabia took over.
Speaker 3 (52:23):
Oh yeah, I mean, answer if it was like a
bicultural sort of exchange and it was like we agree
that we want to proliferate the sport beyond Japan and
include you know, I mean, I don't know. I'm sorry,
I didn't mean to get into the weeds there. It's
just that is interesting because for certain things like you know,
baseball or basketball or football, you know, really he certainly
it's American, I guess. But it's also like soccer is
(52:44):
huge in Europe and it's a huge in South America,
and only just recently has it become a more of
a phenomenon here in the States.
Speaker 4 (52:51):
So the cultural side of it is interesting to me. Yeah, yeah,
that's I think that's a deep question too. I mean,
we know, all in all Saudi Arabia's eighty five major
separate events, and at every turn in all of these events,
you'll hear people accusing athletes, managers, and coaches of being
(53:13):
functionally complacent, right of essentially taking the thirty pieces of
silver to betray humanity right and distract from these serious,
very real human rights abuses. So what's the motivation really?
It depends on who you ask why all this recent
massive investment Before we get to monopolization that we wanted
(53:38):
to mention, I think we go directly to the Crown
Prince Mohamed Salman to ask about this. He is pretty
blunt about it in interviews, and he makes no secret
of the massive financial motivations of play. He was speaking
to Fox News and said he didn't care about the
debate around sports washing. He was interviewed by Brett Bahar,
(54:03):
the same guy who earlier interviewed VP Harris. Quite recently,
as we record, and this is in September twentieth of
twenty twenty three, the Crown print says, Look, I don't
care if sports washing is going to increase my GDP
by one percent, will continue doing sports washing. I don't care.
(54:23):
I have one percent growth in GDP from sport and
I'm aiming to get another one point five percent. Call
it what you want, we are going to get that
one point five percent.
Speaker 3 (54:32):
Well, and while that's like mega blunt and I think
that's interesting in and of itself. It is exactly that
kind of diversionary explaining away of like the no, duh,
we're gonna do this. It's like really good for our
gross domestic product and whatever you want to call it.
You call it that, but that's not why we're doing it.
Speaker 2 (54:51):
We're just making money over here.
Speaker 4 (54:53):
Well, I think it was even more so that he's
just not going to even countenance the conversation, right, dignify
it with a response? Right, would the old media training
thing answer the question you wish you were asked? And
the Kingdom is still an extremely dangerous place for those
seen as violating its laws. We can't forget that eighty
one people were executed there on a single day just
(55:15):
back in twenty twenty two. These are very recent events.
So what happens next in golf specifically? I think we
wanted to talk about some more mergers and acquisitions.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
Well, yeah, for since Live Golf was established and they
got Phil Mickelson and several other high profile people, they
were investing billions and billions of dollars starting this new thing. PGA,
the PGA Group or the PGA Tour and Live Golf
have been embroiled in a legal battle, and it's been
ongoing and ongoing, and all of a sudden, and by
(55:50):
the way, there are clear sides that were taken, especially
amongst the professional golfers. We talked about that a little bit.
There are clear sides for supporters who are just of golf,
some people going over to live golf and totally fine
with it in its new version of what golf is,
or could be other people who want that old who
want that old golf feeling and hanging out with PGA.
Speaker 3 (56:13):
Right, like Tiger and right he stayed behind. Yeah, is
just a big name that like went over. Let's see
that became CEO Greg Norman.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
Right, So that you've got these and they were there
were like fighting sides, right, mean things are being said,
bad things are being said about each other basically. Then
all of a sudden in June there's a huge announcement
made by the same guy that I mentioned a quote
from earlier, Jay Monahan, who's the PGA Tour commissioner. He
came out and basically said, okay, guys, we've come to
(56:43):
a deal Live Golf, the PGA Tour as well as
this thing called the dp World Tour. We're all coming
together and we're going to function as one thing. We're
going to unify golf across the world as one thing,
basically by merger efforts and money, which was crazy to everybody,
(57:04):
for everybody, because well especially people on the PGA side,
because it was a battle that was being fought to
prevent this very thing from happening, right from either live
golf overtaking the PGA Tour or from merging with a
bunch of Saudi Arabian money to turn the pg Tour
into something else. And now the commissioner, who was publicly
(57:26):
fighting back and fighting legal battles, just said, now it's cool, guys,
we're all going we're all coming together. Here's a quote
from Jay. What we're talking about today is coming together
to unify the game of golf, and to do so
under one umbrella. We've recognized that together we can have
a far greater impact on this game than we can
(57:47):
working apart. The game of golf is better for what
we've done here today. Very reverent, Well, you know, it
sounds like to me, it sounds like somebody who skied.
Speaker 3 (58:01):
Absolutely, he's spouting a line. For sure, I'm saying the
tone of that though, is so self congratulatory it kind
of makes you throw up in your mouth a little bit. Yeah,
it's a little weird.
Speaker 4 (58:15):
And for now, the story continues. We didn't say much
about the human rights abuses other than to refer to them,
but we have mentioned notable moments. You can learn more
about that in past episodes of our show, as well
as your own searches. The specific initiative for sports overall
(58:36):
and Saudi Arabia acquisition thereof continues at a rapid pace.
Saudi Arabia has recently won the rights to stage the
finals of the Asian Champions League football tournament, then the
twenty thirty four Asian Games, the twenty twenty seven Asian Cup,
the twenty twenty nine Winter Olympics, and is going to
host the twenty thirty four World Cup, by far, one
(58:59):
of the biggest sports events on the planet. So a
lot of people believe more Olympic bids are only a
matter of time. To put it simply, Saudi Arabia's riches
are transforming the landscape of sporting and there's a controversial,
profound shift and influence taking place. While people are going
(59:20):
to raise concerns continually, I think it is highly unlikely
that the sporting world is gonna somehow unanimously turn away
from billions upon billions of dollars.
Speaker 3 (59:29):
That's just not how.
Speaker 4 (59:31):
Sports or business works, right, Nope, it's not really the
m O. And so with this we'll keep an eye
on the story. We hope you do. Two folks, we
would love to hear your thoughts. We don't always do
sports episodes, but we try to make them special when
we get to it. Is this on the up and up?
Or is something else afoot on the on the global
(59:51):
course of golf something they don't want you to know.
Tell us your thoughts. We can't wait to hear your experiences,
especially in just to help us out on some other things,
especially if you can name your favorite weird sport and
maybe tell us what the Saudi government should invest in next.
We tried to be easy to find online.
Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
That's right. You can find us all over your Internet
platforms of choice at the handle Conspiracy Stuff, where we exist,
on Facebook, where we have our Facebook group, Here's where
it gets crazy, on x FKA Twitter, as well as
on YouTube, where you can find glorious quantities of video
content for your perusal. If you'd like to find us
on Instagram and TikTok. However, we are conspiracy stuff show
(01:00:32):
on those platforms.
Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
If you want to call us, call one eight three
three STDWYTK. Call us after you've checked out that ABC
News article PGA Tour Live Golf DP World Tour unify
under one umbrella. What do you think about this as
a conclusion? What are you going to keep watching golf
now that it's something different?
Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
Do you even like golf?
Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
I don't know. Just call us and tell us things
about golf this time or tangentially related. Please, when you
call in, give yourself a cool nickname. Say whatever you'd like.
Speaker 4 (01:01:05):
Just do.
Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
Let us know if we can use your name and
message on the air. If you've got more to say,
then can fit in one voicemail. Why not instead send
us a good old fashioned email.
Speaker 4 (01:01:13):
We are the entity is you read every single piece
of correspondence we receive. It's one of our favorite ways
for you to contact us. Give us the links, give
us the photographs, no word limit. Go as long as
you want. A cool nickname is great. We've got your back.
Let us know if you need to be anonymous, and
if you want to learn about sports washing overall. Check
(01:01:34):
out that study we mentioned by Grant Liberty. It's pretty
in the weeds, but it's worth the time, perhaps most importantly,
for unrelated reasons, again your favorite weird sport? Have you
ever heard of? Toe wrestling? Just the phrase makes us uncomfortable,
But there's a lot out there and we can't wait
to hear your stories about it. So join us out
(01:01:55):
here in the dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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