Stanley Kubrick: The Man and the Myths

Legendary auteur Stanley Kubrick is considered one of the most important single individuals in the history of modern film. There’s no question that his techniques, approach and body of work have influenced countless filmmakers -- but, according to some people -- he’s affected the public in much more disturbing ways. Join the guys as they dive into the conspiratorial allegations surrounding Stanley Kubrick.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M

(00:24):
welcome back to the show. My name is Matt. Been
married nine years, Frederick. Hey, congratulations, Matt been married nine years, Frederick.
My name's Noll. Been divorced for a couple of years Brown. Yes, congratulations,
Matt been married nine years, Frederick. They call me Ben.
Our super producer Paul One take decant is away on adventures,

(00:46):
but we are joined with our super producer, Casey Pegram,
who you may recognize from several other shows here at
How Stuff Works. Hey, guys, thanks for having me in today.
Thanks for coming onto show Casey. Most importantly, if you're
listening to this, that means you are you, you are here,
and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know.
And it really is Matt's ninth anniversary. Yeah that's true. Yeah, yeah,

(01:09):
you're But while we are listening to ourselves. Unless this
episode somehow comes out on the same day we recorded,
which usually doesn't happen unless quick peek behind this curtain,
we got something wrong. But yes, massive congratulations. A lot
of people may not know that. Uh, you and Casey
have worked together extensively in the past in the film world, right,

(01:32):
that's right. We owned a company together for a while there.
He shot my wedding. We made numerous projects together. Yeah,
shout out to Brad Elephant. Oh dear, oh no, Now
people will know what to search on Google. There might
be some stuff on Google. I don't know. I think
the website is no no longer. He shot up your wedding,
and you, guys are still fair. He did, but it

(01:54):
was it was like celebratory style in the air. It
was like a wedding. It was I think it was
a bank highst thing wedding. Yeah. Those and how cinematic
would that be? Speaking of amazing segues, guys, we're finally
getting to an episode that a lot of you have
asked us about in the past. I mean, I mean
for years. Uh, we're all film buffs here at the studio,

(02:17):
and like many of you, we spend a lot of
time kicking around theories and discussing the implications of various
works as well as there are greater influences on later
films and filmmakers. Today we are diving into one of
the most well known conspiracies in the world of cinema.
And to do this justice we have to begin with
a single man. His name is Stanley Kubrick, Old stand

(02:39):
the Man. Kubrick was born on July twenty of the
year nineteen and twenty eight in the Bronx. You guys
have been to the Bronx. Yes, I have never been
there often. Oh wait, we went to the Bronx once, right, Yeah,
we're brief briefly there on that that that one day,
the Hidden Buildings ship. That's not such a secret anymore. Yeah.
His dad was a physician and his mother a housewife. Um.

(03:02):
And he was a bad, bad boy. Yeah he would
he was. He was notoriously bad at school. In elementary school, Uh,
he had about as many absences as he did attendance days.
It was an outcast once he got to high school.
He later claimed, I never learned anything at school, and
I never read a book for pleasure until I was nineteen.

(03:23):
But when he did, he caught the bug. And originally
he wanted to either play baseball or be a writer.
Imagine how different the world would be if we were
talking about Stanley Kubrick. The third baseman the third baseman, right,
and he did have one shining aspect or moment in
high school. It wasn't all rainy, gray days and sad
songs on the radio. He turned out to be a

(03:45):
promising photographer, which I think happens with a lot of
people who later go on to become directors. Right, They
start off with still photography and they have a gift
for it. Do we talk about White Case he's on
the show today because it was not here? Well, no,
but he's also I mean, come on, guys, case he's
like a film for Sionado. Oh yeah. We went to
film school together at Georgia State University and Casey was

(04:07):
in several of my classes and he always knew more
than the professors. And he would never admit to that,
but he he did. Casey has an encyclopediaic knowledge of
film lore. So Casey Kuber He shot a lot of
stuff early on for was it Look Magazine? Yeah, Look Magazine,
and um yeah he was. He was quite the accomplished,
um kind of photojournalist, um, even right from the start,

(04:29):
and um yeah, I mean obviously the everything that he
learned technically about still photography also tends to apply to filmmaking,
so he kind of, um got in early that way.
So the point holds, right, is that something we see
with other directors as well, Casey, Yeah, certain directors that
you know, every director is different. Some have more of
like a theater kind of background or a writer background,

(04:50):
but definitely the ones that are like more hands on
with the camera and tend to think more in terms
of images photography is like a great, great way to
get into filmmaking. So he he started on this path early,
right age sixteen, he's selling photos to Look and the
next year, by the time he's seventeen, they hired him
full time. Yeah, and I was just gonna say, it's
obviously a great way to kind of establish your missan saying,

(05:13):
you know, where you kind of figure out how to
frame things and what you know, Um, you figure out
you know you're framing, and sure you do it with
still photography. You can certainly apply that to moving images
as well, in the way you place objects in the frame.
And we have a little bit of a romanticized picture

(05:35):
of his early life because when he wasn't traveling for
Look as a photographer, he spent most nights at the
Museum of Modern Art, or MoMA. Yeah, or at a parking.
He did that a lot, and that that seems really cool.
That's way more productive than a lot of things that
the average person would do in the evening. Unfortunately, he

(05:57):
was rejected from every college he applied to, every single one,
full stop. That's because he was a bad boy. He
probably didn't have the transcripts needed. Yeah, he probably just
didn't have the grades, but it seemed like he wasn't
a huge proponent of organized education to begin with. However,
he did not waste time. Uh, the time he would

(06:17):
have spent in college, he spent working on documentary shorts
financed by friends and family. These were some of his
early works. Yeah, and and he thought he could make
a good deal of money making these types of things
because there was another company in Casey. I don't know
if you know this, but I don't know if you
have the answer to this question, But there was some

(06:38):
company that was supposedly selling documentary shorts for fifty dollars
something in say, forty dollars at the time, and he thought, well,
I can do that. I can sell those and make
a ton of money. I'll spend ten thousand dollars make
thirty thousand dollars or something like that, only to find out, oh,
oh no, you can't sell a documentary short for that
much money. That's interesting. Yeah, I don't I don't know

(07:00):
the name of that company. But Kubrick, you know, later
later on in his filmmaking career, was always kind of
a very very active producer on his films, and he
controlled the budgets very very meticulously, and it was all
with with an eye towards being able to have the
time to do the films the way he wanted them
and never have that pressure to just have to get

(07:20):
the shot and move on. So um. He he learned
very very early on that you have to control the
money and filmmaking and that's what's going to allow you
to like get that perfect shot every time. You know.
That's that's a really good point, because that's something a
lot of directors when they're first starting out get wrong, right,
that you have to do the unfun stuff as well

(07:41):
as the creative stuff. Kubrick's first feature was this military
drama called Fear and Desire, came out in nineteen fifty three.
Oddly enough, he made it without the help of studio.
To your point, Casey. He was somewhat of a one
man band. He was multitasking, not just with the budget,
not directing, but also editing, working sound, doing cinematography, doing

(08:04):
things ordinarily would be a group of people's individual jobs.
And he would also shoot physically, you know, with the camera.
He didn't like have a cinematographer. He was that guy. Yeah,
I mean, and in later films he did work with cinematographers,
but even then it was kind of understood that the
cinematographer was like his backup in a way, like if
if the cinematographer was not there for some reason, kuber

(08:26):
could obviously step in and and and do it just
as well. There's an anecdote when he's making his first
semi commercial feature where he was working with a very
well respected cinematographer and Kubrick told him the lens he
wanted and where he wanted to put the track. He
was going to do a dolly shot, and the cinematographer
had a different idea about how to do the shot,
maybe something a little more conventional, and so he put

(08:49):
the tracks somewhere else and he put on, you know,
the lens he felt like putting on, and Kubrick you know,
caught it right away and said, I didn't tell you
to put the dolly there. I didn't tell you to
put you know, the track there. I didn't you to
put the lens on. So do what I said, or
you know you're you're fired off this film. And from
then on, I think that cinematographer knew he could not
like pull a fast one on Cooper. Yeah, because he's

(09:11):
paid meticulous attention to detail, right, and it's something that
shows in his filmography. We know from fifty seven nineteen
fifty seven, just in case we came on glued. From
time there to he made numerous feature films, believe ten,
and these include some of the greatest hits, right Spartacus
in nineteen sixty Lolita in nineteen sixty two, which I

(09:34):
do have to say, despite the premise, is a fantastic
book by Nabokov. I'm glad you liked it. Did you
read it? I read some of it. I watched the
versions the versions of it. Is there only one version
of There's a there's like a je iron yea a
line version that was like in the nineties or something.
It has one of my favorite depictions of a death

(09:56):
scene at least the novel. Yeah, in the first page
and the little bit of a spoiler, um, the narrator
is super unreliable and a terrible person is talking about
how his mother passed away, and all you learn is
there's this parenthetical where it's just like Picnic Comma lightning,
and then it moves on. It's one of my favorite
death scenes. He also has one of the best and
most redundant names in literature, Humbered, Humbered who I enjoyed

(10:20):
one a lot. And this society, like Lolita, is a
very controversial story and and it's it's got some hugely
problematic things. But Kubrick never uh never hesitated, I guess
to address controversial themes like Dr Strange love or how

(10:41):
I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb which
made ninety four. That's predictably something that we dig right,
and I went back as we were research. I'm sure
I'm sure you guys did too, to look at some
great clips from that one, in particular watching the Nuke.
Of course, of course I have dreams about that slim pickens,

(11:04):
you know, I mean, if you gotta go, what a way?
What a way to go? Yeah, I'd be pretty cool
and would it feel like you probably just get vaporized instantly. Yeah,
againly after the high of writing the thing down. I
guess eventually you pass out, though first, wouldn't you? I
don't know. I guess it depends on the elevation, terminal
velocity things. Uh. He also probably wouldn't be able to

(11:24):
hold onto the thing with your legs like that. I
mean that that guy was definitely usy to thigh master
of some sort. He had, you know what he had? Uh,
what's a good phrase? He had saddle ride and thighs.
This is getting weird, you know. Slim Pickens was was
unaware that movie was a comedy, and he was you know,

(11:44):
he's he's kind of known for being like a player
in westerns and stuff. And uh, he loved the story
and I think he had more of like a sincere
interpretation of it. And and Kubrick did not disabuse him
of that notion. So and yet he rode the nuke
Yeah wave has hat around circles going yeah, I didn't
think that was he was all about it. He got
that was sincere. Uh. In nineteen, Stanley Kubrick releases what

(12:09):
remains one of his most popular films two thousand one
a Space Odyssey. On a side note here, the first
manned moon lending, according to the official story, occurred on
July twenty, nineteen sixty eight, which would be importantly a
mere hours after the chap a Quitic. Incidentally interesting and
in case anyone's interested and wants some spoilers for the

(12:31):
relatively unspoilable ending of two thousand one of Space Odyssey,
there is an interview that surface recently where Kubrick kind
of goes beat by beat about what that ending is
supposed to mean, something that he typically did not do.
But this was like for I think Japanese television, and
it was something that never really made it over here
until very recently, but it's worth checking out if you
want to go over to Esquire and here Stanley Kubrick

(12:53):
explained the two thousand one Space Odyssey ending in a
rare unearthed video. That's the name of the article which
we should post. And here's where it gets crazy, Yeah, definitely,
which is our Facebook community page hang out with us uh.
He has other works, of course, a clockwork orange Barry
Lyndon the Shining, a personal favorite mind full metal jacket,
and while he's making these amazing, iconic works of film.

(13:17):
He is also, of course, kind of living a life
outside of his job, but only kind of. He's married
three times, he has three daughters. In the early nineteen sixties,
he moves to the UK and begins to build a
reputation as a recluse, almost J. D. Salinger level, but
maybe not quite. He avoids interviews. They're barely any photographs

(13:39):
of him, none of them are formal, and he spends
little time outside of the studio. He looks like you
would picture a typical hermit. My look beard, beard, kind
of kim t hair, and it should be note of
that he takes huge breaks in between feature films as
the years kind of go by, and his last like

(14:00):
war films, I want to say three or fourth Terence Mallock. Yeah,
it takes him a long time between projects, and there
is more history there of of other films he tried
to get off the ground and for one reason or
other it didn't end up happening, or he decided he
didn't want to make. Probably the biggest one is Napoleon
that he was going to do I think after two
thousand one, and he spent years and years kind of

(14:20):
creating this like day by day account of Napoleon's life.
He had this whole like index card catalog system of
where Napoleon was on like every single day of his
life just about and um he made you know, he
put years of his life into it. And uh, ultimately
there was other Napoleon movies that came out in the
same period that did not perform well at the box office,
and he couldn't get it made after that. You know,

(14:42):
I've never seen a Napoleon movie. Have you guys seen
a Napoleon and Ted? Yeah, but you'd think that, you know,
maybe he's just an unsympathetic character. Very but no, but
casey to your point. So with this whole methodical card
catalog system, probably a bit of a neurotic, a little
bit um sick. Yeah, yeah, uh he there was a

(15:07):
sweet thing I found in the research. While he was
living in the UK and becoming increasingly reclusive, his sister
would take football and baseball games for some of his
favorite teams, like the New York Giants, and she would
send him to She would send these to him in
the mail, so he still had that human connection. Stanley
Kubrick dies in his sleep on March seven, Merror hours

(15:31):
after delivering a print of Eyes Wide Shut, and this
would become his last film. But it's where our story
really begins, and we'll get to it after a word
from our sponsors. We're back. So these are just the

(15:52):
brief highlights, very brief highlights, as it were, of Kubrick's
life and times, and there's much much more to his
story worry off screen. In fact, even in the on
screen stuff. Entire volumes of literature have been dedicated to
the story behind a single Kubrick film, like Full Metal
Jacket or The Shining or Eyes or two thousand oh yeah,

(16:14):
especially or Eyes Wide Shut. Yeah. I always felt like
that movie was secretly, not so secretly about the Illuminati.
You did a kind of a there's a there's a
surprising amount of fringe journalists and researchers who believe that, well,
they tend to agree with your point, Noel. They believe

(16:35):
that his most influential work has little or nothing to
do with what the public perceives as his of wool
of what what the hell is that? It's your body
of work, it's your tight, tight body of work. Well, well,
can we really fast just casey, I think one of
the reasons, just before we get into all this, one

(16:57):
of the reasons that people feel that way is because, uh,
he dealt a lot with visual symbols, symbology, things that
represented other things that would be in a shot or
the shot would be a certain way, um to speak,
beyond just what is occurring, what you're seeing on screen
or what's what you're hearing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think

(17:17):
I think Kubrick, again going back to kind of his
his origins and and still photography was was all about
the image and composition and symbology and um, kind of
going into the deeper layers of storytelling, you know, Joseph Campbell,
Carl Young, that kind of stuff, the idea of archetypes
and um, these kind of like primal tendencies in narratives

(17:42):
and and things that recur in stories over and over
throughout you know time. So he was kind of tapped
into a lot of that. I think I've said it before,
I got to say it again. There's an excellent article
by Cormac McCarthy that addresses this concept of symbol as
communication beyond our articulated language. It's called the cool a problem.

(18:03):
Where did language come from? We should totally post that, Casey,
you would love this. It sounds great actually, um yeah,
and just kind of something that occurred to me. Kubrick
once he was living in England and and sort of,
you know, being a little bit more perhaps reclusive, he
was having like tapes of American football games and baseball
games I think sent over to him from the United States. Um.

(18:24):
But in one interview, he actually says that the commercials
interested him more than the games themselves, because just something
that could tell a complete story within the span of
thirty or fifteen seconds, the economy of that of means
of like communicating that in just a handful of images
in the best advertising, um, really fascinated him. I would

(18:45):
love to see him review commercials. I've always felt that
way about like jingles are like making a little tent
fifteen second theme tune for a show. I dabbled in
that with some of our podcast. It's really fun to
try to communicate a kind of beginning, middle, and end
of some thing and a very finite short amount of time.
Can you guys imagine the multiverse where Kubrick just was

(19:06):
working for Procter earned Gamble or some other huge company
and just making commercials. Let's write one. Let's do it.
I'm not kidding, Let's let's write uh, Stanley Kubrick add
somehow Well, Okay, So these people, these journalists and researchers
who do uh read something in the tea leaves or

(19:26):
feel that they have divined something beyond the surface story
of these films. Uh. They argue that his films are
just a message leading to his larger secret great work,
which I know is a loaded term. They argue that
Stanley Kubrick participated in some of the world's most insidious
cover ups, and that this participation later tortured him so

(19:49):
much so, in fact, that he hid clues to the
truth in his own work. Here's where it gets crazy.
First and foremost, then most well known conspiracy involving Stanley
Kubrick is what the moon landing that never was was? Was? Yeah,
no human beings ever actually landed on the Moon, they say. Instead,

(20:12):
the US government secretly contracted with Stanley Kubrick to film
a fake moon landing of high enough quality to fool
the world, and then swore him and everyone else involved
to secrecy on pain of death. Well, that's obviously true.
Let's move on now. There's more to parse out here.

(20:32):
We can tell you how the story began to circulate,
So it began to being taken seriously by people after
Stanley Kubrick's death. This was not around when he was alive.
And the most prominent mentions we can find someone seriously
alleging this come from a writer and director named Jay

(20:52):
Widner who began publicizing what he saw his clues supporting
this concept. And we can we can die. I've into this.
We do want to warn anyone who hasn't seen The
Shining for some reason, go watch it now. Uh, this
is going to examine in detail aspects of The Shining.
It's not major spoiler territory, but there are a couple

(21:14):
of spots that are troublesome. But surely both the movie
and the book are well beyond the statute of limitations
spoilers at this point. But but The Shining is one
of those movies that even if you haven't seen it
by now, you should see it before anyone spoils. Absolutely,
but you probably also know the story already. You know
it's so it's almost a trope, it's almost an agglomeration

(21:35):
of tropes at this point. But still I guess we
should do the countdown for spoilers forty nine. That's that
one about the dude that plays piano and and kind
of loses his marbles. Yep, that's the one. I know
what you're talking about. I can't think of the Actually
it's called Shine, Jeffrey Rush's first big pick Chack nice

(21:57):
spoilers Jeffrey Rushes and Shine. If that's if that, if
that was the question you wanted to answer to. He's
the boiler for his father. His father's father breaks his violin,
and that dad makes him into a bitter old man,
turns him into a penis. It does so the fact

(22:18):
of the shinen with an I n g uh in
Jay's assessment, Jack and Danny Torrence, the dad and the
son represent different aspects of Kubrick himself. So Danny is
the gifted, youthful, idealistic director who's in tune with a
greater message. Danny and the story is psychic and so

(22:38):
some symbolically that's Kubrick being capable of seeing things no
one else can see. Danny also has a knack for
telling people things that should ordinarily be kept quiet. Jack,
on the other hand, the father is the quote practical,
pragmatic guy who wants to be a great artist, and
he's apparently willing to do anything to accomplish his goal
of becoming a writer. So to support this, J site

(23:02):
several perceived physical similarities. Jack's practice of smoking Marlborough's the
same kind that Kubrick smoked. Uh. To the earlier point
about his appearance, he says Jack looks unkempt on his shaven.
As the film progresses, he begins looking more and more
like the behind the scenes footage of Cooper Cuberic kuber

(23:23):
and yeah, it's I mean, it is interesting. Kubrick also
was known to carry an ax around set way that
wildly at people to get them to do what he says,
Shelley Duval get back over here when I say action
go true story. He never used a door knup, only
axes his whole life. When you have like a metal phobia,
like human he uh, you know, maybe he just had

(23:46):
a pro ax thing. Yes, yes, uh. The he does
look unkempt, and you see this in the behind the
scenes footage. He and Jack Nicholson playing Torrents become increasingly
I don't want to say decrepit, but wild looking and
the Overlook Hotel in this reading represents America. It's Chinese,

(24:10):
it's wealthy, but it is built upon blood and terrible,
terrible secrets. We talked about the baking powder cans. Calmet
comes in a little bit later, but that's something we
can touch on now. And I only mentioned because Ben
talks about how it's built on blood money, and then
in the film, I believe that's built like an Indian

(24:31):
when they're when they're doing the tour, he says, we
had to repel several Indian attacks while we were building
this place, which is just such a throwaway line in
there too, it makes it more sinister. But visually, um,
there's a whole like crazy stockpile of calimet baking soda
or powder that has the you know, the traditional Indian

(24:52):
chief headdress very conspicuously turned towards the camera. Isn't that
right case it's in profile and uh and it's also Halleran,
who is giving the tour of the of the kitchen
um is in the same profile as the Indians. So
there's been some suggestion that Kubrick is drawing a parallel
visually between you know, what what happened historically to Indians

(25:14):
and African Americans as well in the United States. But
to Jay, it's all about faking the moon landing. To
j yes, in this context, it's like, this is America,
and here is the most important part, right, the the
hotel manager, or at least the the first one we meet. Right,

(25:34):
he apparently represents the face of the American government, whereas red,
white and blue. He has a U. S flag in
his office. He sits in front of an eagle, the
power behind the throne and the lunar lander. The Apollo
eleven mission, J notes was called the Eagle. The deal
that Jack makes with this manager he can pursue his
creative interest so long as he takes care of the Overlook,

(25:58):
and the manager tells Jack is me job is to
prevent the Overlook Hotel from looking like it is decaying. Yeah,
and here we're talking about America again. If we've taken
in the context that he sees it in that we're
gonna need you to fake this thing so it doesn't
look like we are the decaying force within these uh
Cold War powers, which is another big thing here. Yeah,

(26:20):
there we go. Okay, So the storm that hits the
Overlook is again according to j representative of the Cold
War between the U. S s R. And the US.
This Cold War and efforts to hide real American technology
flying saucers, in his opinion, are the primary motivations behind
the faked moon landing. The Torrents family then in America

(26:41):
and Kubrick are trapped in the Cold War. Uh, there's yeah,
there's a there's another thing that goes that ties into
the Native American artistic motifs, right, that are all throughout
the Shining Uh. In the room where he where Jack

(27:01):
is attempting to write and going crazier and crazier and
throwing that tennis ball, the wall has this Native American
motif that, according to Jay, looks like a bunch of
rockets about. Oh yeah, well, you know, there's and there's
also so much Native American just imagery, and there's so
many symbols within the hotel. You look at the carpeting

(27:21):
in certain areas and just really quickly, I'd love to
ask Casey if do you think there's any as salt
to that reading of this film that perhaps the overlook
is in some way the United States. I think there's
something to it. Yeah, I don't. I don't necessarily buy
into the whole Kuprick is guilty about the moon landing,
and he's kind of addressing that in the Shining. But

(27:43):
I do think there's something to the idea that do
you the Overlook Hotel standing in for the United States
and the film in some ways being about the past
kind of uh continuing into the present and kind of
never truly being gone. Um. I think the way it's
depicted in the film, like yeah, spoiler alert, but you
know Jack's always in there, He's always been the caretaker.

(28:06):
Um well, you noticed like at the end of the
film when when you see that picture of Jack Nicholson
on the wall with all the people in like one
I think it is it's July four. It's like the
fourth of July. Ball Dune, Dune, Dune. And my whole
thing is, why wouldn't Kubrick do this for funzies? You know,
It's like it seemed like an odd choice for me anyway,
to make like this horror movie. It's nothing he'd ever

(28:26):
done before. It just seemed like kind of out of
left field. It would make sense to me that he
would have kind of not an agenda, but some twist
on it that would make it a little more fun
for him than just doing a traditional, you know, straight
up horror film, straight up horror film. Yeah, I think
that's a good point. So j W would agree with you,
and people who think it's about the Moonland, he would

(28:48):
agree with you. Back to tennis ball. When those ghost
twins throw the ball to Danny, he stands and for
the first time in the film, we can clearly see
his sweater. It's a rocket with the words Apollo elevens.
So in crudely beneath that's a smoking gun for the proponents. Yeah,
and he says, we the viewer gets to see the
launch of the Apollo eleven rocket as he's you know,

(29:11):
ascending from sitting down. Yeah, And look, I don't want
to write this stuff off entirely, but there are some
inaccuracies with his reading. So in the original version of
The Shining Danny experiences this horrible psychic event in room
to seventeen. In the film, this occurs in room two
thirty seven. Jay argues that the average distance between Earth

(29:33):
and the Moon is two thirty seven thousand miles, and
that this change in room numbers is an allusion to
this idea. However, the actual average distance from Earth to
the Moon is more like two eight thousand, eight hundred
fifty five miles. And that's that's per Nassa. Oh but
you know he's working with right, that was what do

(29:55):
you for someone to say? Yeah, so it's it's been
suggested that was more to do with the hotel not
wanting their real room two three or two one seven
to be uh, you know, for people to be like
scared of staying there the hotel, the hotel that they
used as the the exterior of the hotel on the film.
A lot of the interiors are on a set. Isn't

(30:15):
that the Isn't that an Oregon? Yeah? I think there's
something Timberline Lodge. Someone told me that I have a
hat from there. Um, I've got at the Portland Airport.
I may have talked about on the show before, but
someone pointed out that that in fact was the place
that was used as that as the overlooking them in
the movie. And in another kind of really weird coincidence,
the hotel that Stephen King had stayed out that kind

(30:36):
of gave him the idea in the first place to
write the book is called the Stanley Hotel. Oh nice,
coincidence probably, and Stephen King notoriously not a fan right
Bricks film, It's very different, It was very different, and
I think that really supports the idea that Kubrick was
having a little having a bit of fun, was doing

(30:57):
something in addition, yeah, which I think is important point,
So did J and people who agree with him. Room
to thirty seven represents the symbolic set on which the
Apollo eleven landing was faked, and he believes that, due
to the nature of shifting perceptions reality in the room,
that as Dick Hollerand said, uh, nothing in the room

(31:18):
is real. And the fact that Jack later lies to
his wife about it, Wendy claiming he saw nothing in
the room, is interpreted by Jay to mean that Kubrick
lied about faking the moon landing and then said, Hey,
what's the best way to tell people about this? I
should make the shining. You should have a woman in
a bathtub become very old, very fast, all of a sudden. Yeah,

(31:41):
that was good, That's what I would do. So so
that's a really scary I don't find the shining particularly
scary overall, but that scene sticks with me when I
do when I do a lot of research. I actually
play low fi chill wave instrumentals and the Shining on

(32:03):
mute and it makes it makes it a different film
and it's actually great. Speaking of that, have you seen
the funny spoof trailer for The Shining with featuring Peter
Gabriel Salisbury Hill And it's just like makes it look
like a total rom com. It just goes. It just
goes to show that it's so easy to reframe things
with music and just clever cutting, and it's like Shining. Yes,

(32:27):
so he has, uh some other things for people who
believe that the moon landing was fake. Kubrick did it
and told us about in the Shining point to other
small details, uh like casey, like you said with July four,
which I had no idea, and that that's fascinating. I
have to go back and watch it again. And then
here's what I thought you guys would find interesting. You know,
he's typing on the manuscript, is going crazy and he

(32:49):
just writes over and over again in different formats. All
work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. According
to Jay, that should actually be read is not all
work but a eleven work and no play makes Jack
a dull boy. Come on a eleven standing for of
course Apollo eleven. I think we've solved it well. I mean, look,

(33:14):
I don't want to throw I don't want to throw
spurs at J j W. But you know that's reading
into things pretty hard. But there are some recurring Apollo
eleven themes in the movie. But it was also very
much in the the consciousness of the time. You know,
the sweater, the rocket pattern and stuff. You know, um

(33:38):
he does he does throw out a quick reference and
a clockwork orange. Also there's a character who's talking about
man on the moon. It's been around, yeah, but think
about how again, just what you guys said, how massive
that is in the zeitgeist from that moment forward, and
then how to decay rate to the point where we
still are interested in talking about literally one of the

(34:00):
top five moments in human history. And I don't know
which which one it is. I'm just being conservative. I
don't want to say it's the best one. Because have
you got I saw an amazing tuba solo video a
while back. Man, you sent it to me, and I
have yet to crack it open. I should apologize. I
get a little fixated, my opic, and I think I

(34:23):
texted numerous people during the day. Uh, it just said
all caps Tuba solo and then I think so it was.
You know, you couldn't really mistake it for anything. It's great, though,
Can we can we get to the most my favorite
thing about all of this theory and and it's the

(34:44):
thing that kind of solidifies it for me because I understand,
as Casey and we were all saying before the America
symbol as the overlook, and this deal that's being made
that with the main character that subsists, it's all. It
has always been in there and it will always be
there if you if you look at it again, all

(35:05):
those things together, this deal that they make, could it
be that this is Stanley Kubrick making a deal with
the American government in that hotel office that sets up
the entire thing, the entire world in which Kubrick then exists.
I mean to me that I can totally see. I

(35:25):
can totally see that. Yeah, you know what you're you
are persuading me here, Matt. It's still something people debate.
I mean, unsurprisingly not everybody agrees, right, but I don't
fully agree. But it's the It's this is one of
those I want to believe things. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
we still have to get those posters. How many did

(35:46):
you say? It was too many? Okay, so we'll only
get twelve. There's another piece of intrigue that emerges around
the shining uh in or so. Clips of someone purporting
to Stanley Kubrick surfaced, and in these clips the subject
appears to take credit for faking the moon landing. He
calls it his masterpiece. Uh, he totally owns it and

(36:11):
says that he filmed it. However, critics note that several
parts of the interview strongly call the authenticity of the
footage into question. Yeah, it doesn't look like Stanley Kubrick.
It doesn't sound like Stanley kuber Yeah, it's probably not
Stanley Kubrick. They said the interview occurred in May, after
he had already died. Yeah, and you can hear the
guy who's doing the interview refer to the person purporting

(36:33):
to be Stanley Kubrick as Tom and saying, Okay, Tom,
let's do it this way, uh so that we I
think we can dismiss. Additionally, his daughter, Kubrick's daughter, Vivian
Kubrick uh strongly objects to these claims, and she dismisses
them outright. We we have a statement that she released
on Twitter regarding this v KUP one one one what

(37:00):
v I ku? And then four ones and you can
you can read that in full. It's it's pretty well written.
It sounds very reasonable. One line that we all thought
you would really enjoy is where she says there are
many very real conspiracies that have happened throughout our history
and are happening presently. I'm only too aware of the
dreadful manipulations perpetrated by government secret services, banksters, the military

(37:24):
industrial complex, etcetera. But claims that the moon landings were
faked and filmed by my father. I just can't understand it.
How can anyone believe that one of the greatest defenders
of mankind would commit such an act of betrayal. I
think Vivian would really like our show, I hope. So, yeah,
she'd be into it. Thanks. I follow her on Twitter,
So she really posts a lot of conspiratorial stuff. Guess

(37:45):
what boys follow? Oh no, it's official, Matt, that's not
that's not a it's not a full endorsement because she
I think she posts some kind of problematic stuff sometimes
to you, but well, we're gonna follow in anyway because
she ain't no follow back girl. That's worth it. But
of course there are alternate interpretations of the Shining. There's

(38:08):
this great documentary called Room two thirty seven came out
in I remember we all talked about it at work.
That examines other analyzes of the work, and here the
big ones. This is one that we mentioned earlier. The
Shining is about the genocide of Native Americans, and as
Casey No pointed out, there is a ton of imagery

(38:31):
right and purposeful framing of shots to support that idea.
Other people will say, yes, it's about genocide, but not
the genocide of Native Americans. It's about the Holocaust. And
then of course someone will say, no, the Shining is
about faking the moon landing. Someone will say, no, the
Shining is a retelling of the minotaur myth okay, is
there is there amazed in the book? No, No, They're

(38:52):
they're just hedge creature. That's one of the one of
the big big changes. And also in the in the book,
the Overlook Hotel explodes because the kid manages to set
the boiler off right. And it was the first time
I learned the word doesn't. It's one of the last

(39:13):
things that possessed Jack towards is screaming as his ghost
riddled body dies, some kind of witchy word. It's like,
it's like you dare not it doesn't interesting. It was
very interesting. Pezuzo. Have you seen the Exorcist too? The
name of the demon and the Exorcist too, it's pezuo zoo.

(39:38):
We are not getting the spoilers out. Hey, you know
what we didn't mention what's that? Because I don't agree
with any of this stuff you guys are talking about.
I think the shining is an allegory for leaving or
leaving the gold standard, the decline of the gold stick. Yes,
that's another thing people have argued. The filmmaker of two
thirty seven, Rodney Ashton, I believe his name is U.

(40:00):
He personally doubts all of these interpretations. And there are
a couple of other things that weaken the idea of
this moon landing concept just based on the film. Prior
to the writer j W's claims, there were two guys
who proposed the idea as a joke on the Internet,
and then there was a mockumentary that I think we've
all seen in this room Dark Side of the Moon,

(40:21):
which is almost at Christopher Guest style. Look at the
fake you know, the moon landing. No, I haven't seen
I even heard of this. It's pretty funny, it's pretty good. Uh.
Problem is it was often taken seriously and people will
cite it as evidence. Yeah, it's like that vampire documentary
what we do in the Shadows. It's it's real, and

(40:45):
people think it's just a mocumentary. It's the inverse I
guess of this. Yeah, that's a good contrast there, Matt. So,
I'm not sure what you guys are doing here. Okay,
I think we're going to a commercial break. We're back.

(41:05):
So there's another conspiracy of play here that we we
mentioned at the very top of the show, but we
didn't really dig into. Stanley Kubrick in The Illuminati a
k a. Eyes Wide Shuts, the last film he made
or almost finished making, right depending on your interpretation, and
one that really freaked a lot of people out. Yeah.

(41:28):
I think largely because it's the only film to feature
Nicole Kidman wiping her bum. Oh is that? Why? Well
it Yeah, that was the original title. I think the
only film Eyes Wiping her Bum, the only film featuring
Nicole Kidmin wiping her bum. Well, it's a there, yes,
Nicole wiping her bum. Aside, there are a lot of

(41:51):
things that have been brought up before that perhaps this
movie had to do with the first one that I
read had to do with Scientology and whether or not
this whole film was kind of a jab at the
This is not me speaking, This is other people speaking.
The cult like similarities or the cult like things that

(42:11):
Scientology has within it. Tom cruises in it. Well, that's
the well again, Like also, Vivian Kubrick, who we've talked about,
is now a Scientologist. Yes, and the people online will
purport that this is Stanley Kubrick fighting against it as
like you've taken my daughter and I'm very upset. I'm

(42:31):
making this whole movie exposing you. However, she did not
join Scientology until after, at least at the very very
tail end of production on this film, So the timeline
is a little tough. Yeah, if you if you're talking
about a man writing a film and then coming up
with the shots for it and all of this, that
it doesn't line up. But having Nicole and Tom as

(42:52):
the lead characters interesting connection there. Perhaps perhaps weren't you
telling us off air that there's this idea of Kubrick
making Eyes Wide Shut just to put them through the wringer. Well,
I mean that's been purported by several articles. I don't
in case, I don't know if you've heard anything about this,
but there is there's like there's one scene in Eyes

(43:13):
Wide Shut that feels a little bit weirdly out of place.
It's where Tom Cruise is kind of walking the streets
of you know, the backlot version of New York that
they built in England at night by himself, and um,
he passes these kind of like frat guys and they
don't get out of his way and they kind of
bumped into him. They kind of like start yelling kind
of homophobic stuff at him. And there has been some

(43:36):
suggestion that that scene was in there almost as Kubrick's
potential commentary on Tom. You know, there's been rumors for
years about about Tom Cruise, so um, you know, just
just not even so much Kubrick falling down on one
side or the other of that whole thing, but just
kind of I don't know, prodding Tom Cruise and like
the control of his image and all that kind of stuff.

(43:58):
But is it Also isn't Kubrick very well known for
putting all actors through the Wringer Yeah, the Shining? Yes well.
And also scatt Nan Cruthers, who plays Hallerin in The Shining,
tells a story about having to do some wine of
dialogue like hello or something like a hundred times and
finally kind of crying out and exasperation, Mr Kubrick, what

(44:22):
do you want? And you know, Kubrick just saying I'm
just waiting to get it right or you know, just
just keep trying it. Yes, but it goes, it goes
much much deeper than that. There's there's a there's an
article in Vanity Fair that discusses specifically how Kubrick pushed

(44:42):
the relationship of Nicole Kidman and Tom Cruise on set
and offset there was this fairly very short sex scene
between Nicole Kidman's character and some other man, and Kubrick
barred Tom Cruise and being on set and they shot
it for like six days and it's the tiny little
sex scene. Um, Tom Cruise was not allowed to be

(45:04):
told anything about what was happening. Again, this is his wife,
and that's That's one of those like things that almost
I can see him as a director trying to unsettle
both of them on purpose, right, test their marriage because
in the movie they're married, and then he's testing their
actual marriage. And he would have them sit down and
do essentially therapy with Stanley, with the three of them

(45:26):
together in a room, and talk about their actual marital
problems and then work that into the movie. Well, I
made the joke about the bomb wiping thing earlier, not
to keep harping on that, but that sort of fed
into that too. The idea that he made them kind
of behave in in in the scene as as a
married couple, would you know, and go about their business
and kind of having gotten past that honeymoon period where

(45:48):
you're gonna, you know, take a pee with the door
open and not worry that your husband's standing right there.
You know, these are these are two of the most
powerful and famous actors in all of Hollywood at the
time that he that he has kind of toying with
And I wonder how much of that is him, like
I don't know, just really exercising the power. Yeah, But
also at this time, you know, he's he's already a

(46:10):
legendary director, so he's kind of like at the level
in the terms of directing. He is kind of like
at the level Prince was in terms of music. People
just don't say no to him except after his death,
So he um. The big question about Eyes Wide shutt right,

(46:31):
is he purposefully torturing the actors like a cat with
a mouse? Is he fighting against scienceology using the language
of symbolism. The thing you'll find perhaps most curious if
if you have seen Eyes Wide Shot before, or if
you're not too familiar with the story, you want to

(46:51):
dive into it. The thing you might find most curious
is that many people argue about the cut of the
film if right right. Kubrick's contract had some hard lines
preventing studios from editing his work without his consent. Again,
he's still the same very hands on director he was

(47:14):
back in the fifties, the essentially going through the legal ease.
His position is it's done when I say it's done,
and then when I say it's done, it's definitely done. No,
no studios intruding, don't tell me to put in a
new actor or some dumb scene with a talking dog.
I run the show. And that that carried through even

(47:34):
to the marketing of his films. He designed all the
posters himself, he cut all the trailers himself, and he
was heavily, heavily involved in selling the movie even after
he was done working on it. So then he after
his untimely death, these critics and researchers wonder whether the
cut that premiered in theaters was the actual final cut
he wanted. So where there scenes that might have been

(47:56):
left out without his consent or altered? I mean what
gives Yeah, so there there is some truth to this
in a certain sense. Um. I mean maybe it goes
deeper if you if you buy into that theory, but
you know, just sticking to like what is definitely known
to be definitely true. Kubrick was contractually obligated even though
he had final cut, he was still contractually obligated to

(48:18):
deliver an R rated film for the US market. And
since he died, you know, just as he had kind
of finished his like final cut, Um, he never had
a chance to kind of go back and forth with
the n p a A over that rating once they
did deliver an NC seventeen because of some of the
nudity and the orgy sequence. Ye are yes, just just

(48:40):
kind of one big one. Um. But but yes, yeah, yeah,
it's it's a it's a recurring event. Um. But uh so,
you know, they were they were kind of in a
in a real predicament because there's so many people that
are clamoring to see like the final master work of
this legendary director, and they an't release it into most

(49:02):
theaters the way an NC seventeen works in the United States.
It's it's a real problem commercially. So what they arrived
at as a compromise was that they use c g
I to put these kind of ridiculous looking, very static,
very like Uncanny Valley esque nude figures standing with her
back to the camera in front of the more explicit action.

(49:23):
And in this way they didn't have to actually alter
like the rhythm of the cutting or reshoot anything. Um.
But it absolutely stands out. I mean, the state of
creating those kinds of you know, post production humanlike figures
was was not great. So still not great. Rogue one
Grand Moth Tarkian or whatever totally took me out of

(49:46):
that movie. Man, that Uncanny Valley effect is is alive
and well, and so they but in Europe, they they
did get the unfiltered unaltered version right away. And now
if you buy the movie on Blu Ray in the
U S or DVD or p really streaming, it's it's
also the unaltered version. It is not like as an
option like it is. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's just
a faults to it. It doesn't even I could be

(50:08):
wrong about that, but I said, I think it is.
So what was being covered? Is it like penetration? Yeah, yeah,
it's like people on a table and you can kind
of see what's going on. So there's there's like people
kind of standing in front. I mean, there's there's really
nothing like super graphic about any of it, but you know,
it doesn't leave a whole lot to the imagination, probably
nothing that we haven't already seen in like films like

(50:28):
Calligual Efforts. For sure. Yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't like
there were all these rumors when he was making the
film that it was like going to be triple x
rated and it was like the most explicit thing ever um.
And then when the film actually came out, I think
most people were kind of like, this is like way
more tame than we were told to expect. It's because
they cut out the puppet love making scene. They're going

(50:49):
to be in there, which was the original second title
of the film, Puppet love making Scene. Stanley Kubrick. So
there's one other elephant in the orgy room here, and
it is the Illuminati, the masks and the robes and
the rituals the idea. The idea is that Kubrick, by

(51:10):
way of being in the entertainment industry, got embroiled in
a massive global freemason Illuminati conspiracy, and he devoted much
of his career to referencing this through symbols and codes.
Just like the moon Landing Shining argument, which is that
Kubrick made the shining as sort of insurance to save

(51:30):
his life from this coble. The eyes wide shut Illuminati
argument says that he while he was always pushing the envelope,
he actually crossed the line for this secret of cabal
when he depicted specifically trauma based mind control, similar to
concepts that explored in things like Project Monarch and other

(51:51):
other related theories, and that instead of uh Kubrick passing
away after turning in the film, he was assassinated. M hmm.
So one of the big questions that I think we
should ask about this concept is if this group is
so powerful and if they were so worried that they
killed him after he turned in the final cut, where

(52:14):
were they when he was filming the thing? Well, it
took Casey, correct me if I'm wrong. I think it
took like eighteen It was very very long shoot. And
when you when you consider that, you know Tom Cruise
and Nicole Kid then are both like extremely in demand
actors at that moment, and even now you know for
that matter, Um, they they really had to kind of

(52:34):
shut their lives down and just like dedicate everything to
being on this shoot and um miss out on a
billion dollars probably right, right, Well, it is interesting though
when you think about some of the things at least
that I was reading in that Vanity Fair article about
the weird ways of shooting, Well, they were they would
shoot Tom Cruise on a set with essentially green scare

(52:59):
or projected image just back, yeah, rear rear, like old
school rear projection for in the UK for weeks, like
just get that one shot of him walking around and
just forced Tom Cruise to do that for weeks, And
it makes me wonder if he's kind of if this
um theory holds true that he's kind of obviously skating
what's actually going into the movie and what's actually what

(53:22):
the symbols that he's showing. Maybe that was a strategy
like red herring false trails. Yeah, maybe, I don't know.
There's definitely like a dream like kind of feeling that
he's trying to convey. And even though he does have
like second unit photography happening in in actual New York,
when you look at the movie, it doesn't really feel
like New York. It kind of feels like a dream

(53:42):
idea of what New York is. And Yeah, I don't know,
I'm kind of tempted to think that it was less
about like putting Tom Cruise through the Ringer for the
heck of it, and probably more down to just you know,
technical perfectionism of Kubrick's part to have it not feel
like just a bogus effect shot or something. So this

(54:06):
is by and large where the conversation about eyes wide
Shut lives. We do know that Stanley Koprick was no
stranger to conspiracy theories on his own. There's a famous
scene in Doctor Strangelove where he mentions Floride, oh yeah,
talking about flooride case you don't happen to know a
quote or anything, do you. I'm trying to think about

(54:28):
the floor. The one that I'm thinking of is to
deny women in my essence. But I think in this
one they're having a discussion about floride in the water,
I believe. Yeah, yeah, I do remember that. That. Yeah,
I have a I have a quote here that might
be helpful. I'm not going to do the voice, but
it's it's is it a conversation? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

(54:48):
Man Drake, do you realize that, in addition to Florida
and water, while there are studies underway to floridate salt, flour,
fruit juice, soup, sugar, milk, ice cream. I scream, Man Drake,
children's ice cream? Oh Jack, you know when floridation first began?
And forty six? Nineteen forty six, Man Drake, How does

(55:12):
that coincide with your post war commy conspiracy? Huh? It's
incredibly obvious, isn't it. A foreign substance is introduced into
our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual,
certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore comy works.
That's uh, that's a pretty classic scene. From the film.

(55:34):
We don't know for sure Stanley Kubrick's personal thoughts on
Floor I, but we do know his personal thoughts on
the concept of extraterrestrial intelligence. Oh yes, we found an
excerpt from Playboy magazine Triple excerpt. Oh, actually, I think
around that time it's probably like Double X. Maybe Playboy

(55:57):
was never Triple X. They've always God. I'm really dim
shitting my knowledge. No, would you like to reveal us
with some of that? Boy? Would I? By the way,
Playboy Magazine, Stanley Cup two thousand one of Space Odyssey
has just come out. I'm gonna do my Couberg voice.
Extraterrestrials may have progressed from biological species, which are fragile

(56:18):
shells for the mind best, into immortal machine entities, and
then over innumerable eons, they could emerge from the chrysalists
of matter, transformed into beings of pure energy and spirit.
That doesn't really I don't know. I know, I give
more more and more bronx. Oh yeah, I can't do bronx,

(56:39):
and I can only do evil evil. These beings would
be gods to the billions of less advanced races in
the universe, just as man would appear a god to
an aunt. So here he's talking specifically about the possibility
of extraterrestrial intelligence existing. He's not saying they exist here

(56:59):
we've taken an excerpt, but yeah, he's just postulated on
what it would be like. And uh he makes a
point which is actually pretty flattering for us when you
think about it. He makes the same point that we
made in previous episodes, which is that the idea of
inorganic life forms being the successful explorers of the stars

(57:20):
is a little more likely than organic life forms. Yes,
and he even gets into that the important point is
that all the standard attributes assigned to God in our
history could equally well be the characteristics of biological entities
who billions of years ago were at a stage of
development similar to man's own and evolved into something as

(57:45):
remote from Man as Man is remote from the primordial
ooze from which he first emerged. That was a great
I mean, yeah, that's great and just a great job,
great thought. I know, I know that's a lameration of
other people's thoughts in a way from Stanley Kubrick, but
still it's it's well well told, which you say, it's

(58:07):
well uh framed. Sorry, guys. Well, in conclusion, first, we
know this episode ran a little bit long, but we
hope you enjoyed it as much as we have today. Uh.
In conclusion, there's no question that Kubrick's work lends itself
to a vast array of interpretation. That's the thing about
interpretations of works of art. Interpretations are not necessarily mutually exclusive,

(58:33):
and ultimately it could be argued that all works of
art belonged to the audience perceiving them in terms of
the meaning, right, because once the artist is dead then
they have no real say, which is you know, a
very controversial point. I used to hate it when my
professor's pointed that out. Well, especially if you're an artist
that just wants to allow your stuff to speak for itself,

(58:55):
and you don't want to be talking to press all
the time. You don't want to have to go through
every little frame and say, this is what this means.
I'm teaching you, I'm telling you how to read my films,
and you're not doing it. Get out of my sight.
I'm going back to the UK and the intensely symbolic
nature of the stories kubric specifically tells arguably communicate to

(59:16):
the audience on a semi or subconscious level, accessing those
primal archetypes cited by people like Carl Younger Fraser, the
author of The Golden Bow, or Joseph Campbell, and again
that Cormac McCarthy article. I probably already posted it on
Here's where it gets crazy, but we're posting it again.
By golly by gum, it's worth it. In the case

(59:36):
of the shining and the moon landing theory, the interpretations
do honestly seem pretty subjective but fascinating and compelling. Problem
is some inaccuracies poke holes in the case. As for
the idea of a secret cabal functioning behind the scenes,
pulling the strings of industries, religions, and governments across the world, well,

(59:56):
the entertainment industry certainly does have a version of that.
Are called producers. Oh burn all your producers out there,
And this is one thing I just wanted to speak
to Casey as well about this. In general, there is
a frenetic pace that's inherent in the filmmaking process where

(01:00:17):
I don't know if any of you out there have
had the experience of being on a set of any
kind of either for student film, a school project, maybe
maybe you've worked on a big production before, but if so,
you know that there are major changes that occur to
everything from the script to the set dressing, to the
camera angle that that's going to be used in the lens,
and everything in between. It happens in real time when

(01:00:38):
you have a director with a with a vision who
is seeing something that isn't necessarily written down right. Yeah, yeah,
I mean and and again the reason that Kubrick needed
eighteen months to shoot Eyes Wide Shut, which if you
watch the final film, it's kind of baffling how it
could take so long to shoot it because it's a

(01:00:59):
lot of simple interiors and a couple of people in
the room talking. But it is because exactly that that
he wanted to be able to try things this way.
Do a scene here, do a scene there, you know,
change the location, change the lighting. Um. There were even
actors that dropped out because they couldn't keep doing the movie,
so some stuff had to be reshot in that way.

(01:01:20):
So I mean, he he very much like looked at
he prepared his films meticulously, but he still they were
like very much kind of living documents that he was making. Um,
when when it came time to shoot them. And if
you want to just to see an example of this,
there's a great clip on YouTube where you can see
behind the scenes shining footage where you can see kubric
actually making these decisions about how to get the shot

(01:01:44):
with um with Jack Nicholson standing at the door talking
talking to his wife, and this really low angle shot
that he's just kind of messing around. As they're hanging
around trying to figure out how to frame the thing.
Stanley gets down below and goes, oh, yeah, yeah, let's
try this one. Yeah, he's got the director's viewfindary lays down,
He's just like, yeah, let's do it from here. Yeah,

(01:02:05):
I mean, And that kind of thing occurs in filmmaking
all the time. And sometimes when you think about someone
like Stanley Kubrick making these films that every moment is
planned out in a notebook somewhere in a grimoire that
he's got here on my plans, Um, it probably isn't
the way it worked out. And lets it's Alfred Hitchcock.

(01:02:27):
And then maybe because he always said, you know, and
make my movies before the camera ever comes on. And
we should also, uh, we should also know that Alfred
Hitchcock was a monster off screen hmm to his to
his talent at least yeah cattle yeah, which I think
one time, Casey, when we were shooting some video, I

(01:02:49):
think I heard you say something like that too. All right, well,
Casey Pegram, thank you so much for joining us today
on this show and in harding some of your Kubrick
wisdom to us and the audience, and of course thank you,
as we said, for tuning in. This is the end

(01:03:09):
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