Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Name is Noah. They goll be ben.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
We are joined as always with our super producer Dylan
the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you are you. You
are here. That makes this the stuff they don't want.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
You to know.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
If you are hearing our strange news program the Evening
it publishes, let us be the first to officially welcome
you to Monday, January twenty seventh. There's so much stuff
going on. A shout out to everybody who had you
know who is chasing the TikTok dragon and had to
(00:56):
go into some hard like some hard with and then
got it back.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
It was a real roller coaster of emotions over my
house with the kids being like it's gone, everything is terrible,
it's back. It's just yeah. It was. It was fun.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Yeah, and uh TikTok is obviously a huge social media platform.
It was pulled voluntarily by a TikTok's parent company due
to the ongoing discourse between the US and China, and
then it was reinstated kind of the same way that
Coca Cola did New Coke and then came out with
(01:34):
Coke Classic and it was an entirely different recipe.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Hmmm, well, Ben, I mean you mentioned offline, you know,
the need to maybe do a deeper dive into how
social media affects our attention span, but also what an
important potential means of opinion manipulation and control it could
be in the hands of, say, a government that was
(02:00):
using it in that fashion.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
I'd like to shout out you met for for noticing
the historical precedence that maybe a play.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
What what you mean, limiting the access people have to
certain information and then controlling the information that's fed to them,
much like in the episode we just discussed where you
take a hostage then you say, hey, you can only
read these papers that we authored.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Yeah, yeah, Orwell was right.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
I hate to say it. Orwell was right though, and
a good writer for sure. And I mean, you know,
if done with enough subtlety, it could almost go unnoticed
for a while, you know, just manipulating the algorithm in
just such a way to feed just enough stories that
support a particular ideology or worldview, and then before you
know it, kid's opinions are starting to change. I mean,
(02:50):
and kids are smart. I'm not trying to say they're stupid,
but this stuff is very difficult to combat. With the
whole back to back video inging of TikTok, you almost
won't even notice that you're kind of being fed propaganda, and.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Social media does attack your attention span. Tune in for
our episode on that. This part of the show is
brought to you by Luigi Mangioti and the Tianamen Square
Tourist Board.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
We'll be right back with our strange news and we've returned.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
We'll call the first part of tonight's program if I
could get some Innio Morricone music, Dylan Pardons and commutations
wah wah wah, the Good, the Bad, and the ugly.
So first off, yeah, first off, check out our album. Secondly,
(03:45):
we have to talk about the difference between a pardon
and a commutation. Quite recently, we here in the still
tenuously United States saw something extraordinary. One outgoing presidential administration
released a wave of pardons and commutations. The incoming administration
(04:09):
also launched a thousand ships technically more than a thousand
of pardons, and this is something that needs to be examined.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Now.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
We know politics and ideology can be really sticky for
a lot of people. We know that the American justice
system has a ton of problems, but it is very
important to begin with this. A pardon says you're fine,
you're forgiven. A commutation says you are still guilty, but
(04:42):
we're going to let you go.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Are there versions of commutations where it could just be
like a reduced sentence, or is it always okay?
Speaker 4 (04:49):
I thought so, Yeah, Yeah, commutation. Think of it as
a spectrum, right, and a pardon is more absolute in
that regard.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Well, and a pardon restores all of your rights as
a citizen.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Yeah, And this is where we see.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
The reason we're calling it the good, the bad, and
the ugly is because depending upon your personal perspective, right,
or depending upon whom you ask, some people will say
a series of pardons are awesome. Other people will say
a series of pardons or commutations are absolutely corrupt. One
of the commutations we can begin with that we see,
(05:29):
I believe, I hope collectively as an absolute win is
Elder Leonard Peltier has had his sentence commuted. It was
commuted in what we call an eleventh hour move by
the outgoing US presidential administration, the Biden administration. Do now,
(05:51):
we recently had an episode about Elder Peltier and we
we actually wrote to him as well. We haven't heard back,
and if you're listening, sir, we hope that you. We
hope that you don't take the time to write us back.
We hope that you enjoy your freedom. Do we want
to talk a little bit about Leonard Peltier who he
(06:13):
is just a quick recap for anybody who hasn't heard
the episode yet.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Sure. Yeah, And there's also a really great podcast out
there called Leonard that's about his story. But he is
an elder Native American tribesman who was caught up in
a gunfight with the FBI essentially, and it would seem
upon examination of the story that he was more or
less defending himself from you know, folks who are coming
(06:41):
into his territory aggressively. And he was of course convicted
for a murder.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, and there was a whole flight from the scene
and you know, hiding out and then weapons charges and
all this other stuff. It's a it's worth your time
to listen to the episode we made on it, just
so you can see the complexity of the issue and
why maybe there are people out there who wanted him
out immediately and then other people who wanted to keep
(07:08):
him in indefinitely.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yeah, well, put there, guys.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
There was an executive grant of clemency signed by former
President Joe Biden on January nineteenth. We're recording this on Wednesday,
January second. The commutation goes into effect on February eighteenth,
and to it seems that the administration was highlighting, underlining, italicizing,
(07:36):
emphasizing that this was not a pardon. The former President
Joe Biden said that Peltierre is to serve the remainder
of his sentence. He's granted clemency, so he's not in jail,
serving the remainder of his sentence at home, and then
took extensive pains to reiterate that this was not a pardon.
(07:58):
This was not to say that he didn't do things
that US courts convicted him of doing. That's pretty controversial
on both sides of the aisle, because a lot of
law enforcement entities absolutely opposed even clemency, and we as
(08:18):
we record, Leonard Peltier is eighty years old. So it's
not as though he's going to be running triathlons.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Just to be clear, I mean, he's certainly paid for
what he was convicted of, you know, whatever you view
the reality of that situation, I mean, that's a very
very large portion of a man's life gone.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
Yeah, and let's stay with the outgoing administration for a moment, because,
as many of us doubtlessly doubtlessly know, there were a
lot of pardons issued in that proverbial eleventh hour by
the Biden administration as the Trump administration was coming into
(09:04):
force right or was coming into the White House. The
list here gets controversial for some people, especially folks who
are not fans of the Biden administration, because there were
a lot of family pardons. You know, there were pardons
for the former president's brothers, James and Francis, as well
(09:25):
as his sister, his sister in law, his brother in law.
There were some pardons for people like Gerald Lundergrand who
was convicted in twenty nineteen on campaign finance charges. The
White House in that case said he demonstrated remorse. We
don't often shout these out this media platform out, but
(09:47):
Newsweek if you want to check them out, they have
a pretty up to date list on the full Biden pardons.
We also see that he here's our segue. We see
that his administration collectively pardoned the members and staff of
the Select Committee investigating the events of January sixth.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Isn't that interesting? Preemptive pardons? It's so weird, Ben, did
you call out the website. I didn't even know there
was an Office of the Pardon Attorney.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
There is an Office of the Pardon Attorney. Yes, that's
a true story. That's a real thing.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
You could go to the Justice dot gov website. I
think it's just slash pardon and you'll get to the
Office of the Pardon Attorney and you can see that
entire list Ben is talking about. And it is fascinating
to look at the giant list over the years, just
as they happen with each president. Wow, that is a
(10:47):
whole that's a whole podcast series just examining the pardons.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Yeah, and it's also I love that point, man, because
it's also a way for us to do a kind
of political dendo anology, you know, where you look at
the rings of trees like this is a great way
to see the passage of time. And this is very
much one of the few presidential superpowers, right, yeah, just
pardon people at the end, like some weird super move.
(11:15):
It's up there with an executive order, and technically you
put out an executive order, uh whatever you want, right,
And it's the branch. It's the executive branch. So who's
who's really going to fight you dude.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Let's go back to George Bush from early jem earlier.
Let's look at all the pardons that occurred as he
was exiting, just to look at you know.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Just to get a sense.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, which ones are your favorite?
George W. Bush pardons? You guys were awesome parties.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Jeezus, nothing, nothing's ringing a bell right off the top.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Well, I just imagine, Look, there's a speculation on my
part because that list, and I haven't thought about it
for a while, but I imagine there's some preemptive pardoning
of potential war criminality. What to say?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
And I mean I was saying, you know, maybe we
often think of pardons as something that happens at the
end of an administration as well, but these can happen
anytime throughout an administration. I'm looking at the lists of
pardons granted by President George W. Bush at Justice dot gov,
and they go from December of two thousand and two
all the way to January first, two thousand and nine,
(12:33):
which is obviously a much longer list than the ones. No,
that's not true. November twenty fourth is a massive list. Boy,
it would take a lot of doing to kind of
dig into some of these technical William Bruce but was
pardoned for bank embezzlement ninety you.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Get in situations like obviously, also, we must say that
almost anybody is eligible for a pardon in the United States.
Henry le Lucas, prolific serial killer, was spared from the
death chamber by George W. Bush at the time a
governor who commuted his death sentence, and governor's powers are
(13:12):
not quite on the same level as the Potus Holy Cow.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
This guy William Marcus McDonald, who was in the Air Force.
Under the US Air Force General Court Martial, he was
pardoned for a distribution of cocaine, possession of cocaine with
intent to distribute, use of cocaine, possession of cocaine, and
use of marijuana. I want to know what that backstory is.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Small time or he was the plug. There's there's always
that possibility, right, Maybe he was. Maybe he was like,
come on, man, every time you texted me, I was there.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
A lot of these are drug charges.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yes, wild this poor guy Greg Biden, he was also
in the Air Force. Biden pardoned him for wrongful use
of cocaine.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
He just used him.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
As opposed to the rightful use right right, which is
clearly to make eighties Bank is like, oh, make it,
You're so fine. Clearly Coca was an executive producer on
that one. Apologies to music. So the reason we're setting
this up here is because we see that pardons, commutations, clemency,
(14:15):
they can always be divisive. It's in fact, it's quite
rare for these actions on the executive branch to not
rub some people the wrong way, unless you're talking about
clemency for clearly racially motivated stitch ups, you know, like
(14:35):
civil rights activists and so on. I wanted to segue
us to the other side of the pardons because right
after Biden leaves, right after the Biden administration goes out,
the Donald Trump administration comes in. They return right ll cool, Jay,
don't call it a comeback, and they pardon a ton
of people in a way that actually pisses off some Republicans.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Yeah, anyone in particular, Ben, that you're thinking of.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Well, for the most interesting purpose on our show here
and all, I would say one thing that stood out
to us was the pardon of the creator of the
Silk Road two point zero, the creator of the dark
web market, the Silk Road, which a lot of people
(15:23):
used to buy their drugs, and I guess to the
earlier point, hopefully they were using them the right way.
This is a guy named Ross Olbricht, and Ross Olbricht
we were talking about this offline and we received some
messages from some of our fellow conspiracy realists about this.
We have previous episodes on this. He was convicted in
(15:46):
twenty fifteen in New York State here in US. In
case anybody needs to be caught up on or read
up on that accurate, Yeah, yeah, yeah, all true. He
was convicted in convicted for distribution of narcotics for conspiracies
related to money laundering. He was sentenced to life in prison,
(16:10):
which was, as we noted previously in twenty fifteen, fairly unusual.
Like the severity of his sentence as a first time offender,
et cetera, et cetera. It really seemed to be a
matter of, you could say, setting an example, or a
matter of people saying, hey, we're aware of cyber crime
(16:32):
and we're you know, we're not just some stodgy.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Old I'm almost quoting Philip Larkin.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
We're not some stodgy old fools in hats and coats.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
We understand speaking of stodgy old fools and no offense
guys or to myself. But ten years ago, approximately, we
talked with Alex Winter about his documentary Deep Web about
Ross Olbricht and the Silk Road and everything that was
happening then, and it was basically, we need some justice
for this guy, and feel how you feel about the
(17:04):
Silk Road and Bitcoin and all of that stuff that
was happening. But this guy kind of got he was
made into an example just as you said.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
Yeah, yeah, agreed, and great shout out to our pal Alex.
Alex Winter is a phenomenal documentarian, one of our favorite
behind the scenes moments there.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
I can't believe a decade ago.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Well, and if you don't know the name Alex Winter,
you might know Bill s Preston Esquire.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Yes, of course, Yeah, I had some adventures. They were
pretty excellent wild stallions.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
So he went on to become a phenomenal documentarian and
a very kind, quite accomplished individual. My favorite behind the
scenes moment again, oh jez a decade ago, was during
the interview this guy's so erudite, he's so smart. He
pauses for a second. We hear a beep in the
(17:58):
background and he goes, oh yeah, guys, hold on off air,
My hot pockets are done.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
That's right. Was amazing. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
So this has been for proponents of Ulbricht. This has
been a long time in coming, and one of the
many pardons or moves toward clemency granted by the incoming
Trump administration was the pardon of Ross Ulbricht and this
like please check out our interview with Alex, Please check
(18:31):
out our earlier conversations about this, and also shout out
to everybody wrote in about the dread pirate Roberts, because
that is the alias albrid used.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
When he was running this h So that ken one
more shout out, Oh please do shout out to dastardly
Dan consummate voicemailer on the show and he he hips
us to an album called Freedom by Akira the Dawn. Yes,
that features It's basically a bunch of phone calls ross
made from prison and I guess to you know Akira
(19:02):
or somebody associated with Akira. Then Akira the Dawn put
that to music and it's an entire, like thirty five
minute album of that and it's.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Brilliant, superb.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Yeah, yeah, and thank you dastardly Dan, Thank you Agira
the Dawn. It reminds me we were saving this fro
on air. It reminds me of for any hip hop heads,
the recordings you will hear from Mumia Abu Jamal, most notably,
perhaps for backpacker nerds like us, most notably featured on
(19:34):
several tracks by Immortal Technique. Mortal Technique is not for everybody,
but do you check it out. We're just gonna lead
you to the edge of that rabbit hole. Go ahead
and dive in.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
I would you know.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Those artists that you adore but you feel like they
would probably hate your guts. I think that's that's the
way I feel about Immortal Technique.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Like True Story, they buried the hatchet. I hate pop
culture talk, but I respect both these guys. He buried
the hatchet with Lynn Manuel Miranda because Lin Manuel Miranda,
the creator of Hamilton, said that Mortal Technique used to
bully him when they were in school.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Literally said, he used to shove him in a trash can. Yes.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Look, I hate to say it, immortal, I can see it. Man.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Oh no, I just say big bully energy.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah. But he's incredible and prolific and it says stuff
that makes your mind to go. Oh, I understand.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Now.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
Check out his statements on the Fourth Estate, right, the
oh gosh f the Middle East and gave birth to
a demon. Oh oh right, okay, moving on, moving on,
moving on, Uh, do check out Mortal Technique again, not
for everybody, but a prominent activist, and I would say
(20:50):
often endeavors to speak truth to power.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
And that is what sidgway.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
That is what supporters of the incoming administration feel that
the current potus has done with his more controversial pardons.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
The Trump administration or Trump Administration version two I guess,
New Trump or Trump Classic, whatever you want to call it,
has officially pardoned a ton of people who were in
trouble for attending the January sixth events. Not too long ago,
and I remember when we we all learned the news
(21:27):
like everybody else. So we got in our little nerd
studio and we we were recording when we didn't know
what was going to happen to Washington, DC.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Do you guys remember that moment? Yeah? Mm hmm.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
I wish h folks, I wish you could see my
guys eyes right now, because we all just got that seven.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
League stare and went yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
It was one of those moments that happens often to
us where we say, Okay, this is crazy, but let's
do our well podcast and hope we leave the booth
to find the same country that was there when we
walked in. These pardons that are official, it's almost sixteen
(22:15):
hundred people, all of whom were charged with the with
active criminal activity during the riot on January sixth, in
twenty twenty one of those charged, about and seventy have
been convicted in about eleven hundred had already been sentenced,
and the current US president said, these are hostages patriots. Yeah,
(22:40):
full part right, hostages and patriots.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Do you guys, I mean already before this I was
sort of thinking, and I think I have in the past,
maybe even mentioned how pardons in general have this sense
to me of like eroding the legal system, eroding trust
in the law, and when they become incredibly political, like
the one that you're talking about, Ben, it just pushes
(23:05):
that even further. I mean, just looking at this list
of George W. Bush part and so many of them,
and again not without knowing the full backstory behind them,
are things like heroin trafficking, you know, the mega mega felonies,
bank crimes, you know, all of this kind of stuff.
It just seems like, with the wave of a hand
that almost imparts the kind of infinite godlike wisdom on
(23:25):
a president that a king would have right compromising rule
of law. That's right. It just doesn't seem right to
me when it's just unilaterally able to be done, especially
in a case like this that so directly had an
impact on the image of this president and he's kind
of tweaking the narrative in his favor in an interesting way.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
I don't disagree with you. I think the perspective I've
got on it right now is that we've talked about
how imperfect our justice system is, right and how many
times somebody gets caught up in it and is either
wrongfully convicted or the system messes up. Right, So it's
cool to have that kind of emergency lever that if
(24:06):
you make a good enough case, or a set of
attorneys makes a good enough case, a president can just say,
all right, yeah, that was a screw up, let's fix that.
But you're absolutely right that they can do that with
their family members or somebody who did them a solid
back in the seventies.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Right. Yeah, And for anybody listening, well said anybody listening.
Outside of the United States, most people don't get preemptive pardons.
It would be kind of dope to have one. I'm
just going to be super honest with all of us
together tonight. There's much more to get to where we're
running at time a little bit. I think the most
(24:42):
important point I wanted to make here. The reason we're
talking about this is not because we ourselves have any
sort of political horse in the race. You know, like
everybody else, we in this country, we live here, we
want things to go. Well, we're fans of democracy, you
know what I mean. So so for us, the the
(25:04):
institutional power of a pardon or clemency is a very
fascinating process. It's it's weird power to have, and at
times it's definitely a necessary power to wield, But just
like perhaps owning a gun or waving machete, the power
(25:25):
itself has no moral compulsion. It's really up to the
person who is wielding the weapon.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Yep, that was mad. That's literally wielding in the checks
out right now, cold trust cold trust it. But I mean, like,
you know, I think whatever your political persuasion is, I
would think that the actions of some of those Jan
sixth rioters would be abhorrent to you. You know, if
(25:55):
you do believe in the system that we have in
this democracy. It just seems like that's just not really
how these things are supposed to be done. You know,
you're supposed to exercise your power with your vote and
with the civic engagement, not with storming a government building
and holding political appointees and elected officials hostage more or
(26:16):
less in using a reign of terror. But then I
guess people in supportive becauld say it's a revolution.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
So that's the tricky part, right, because this country was
founded on a conspiracy, per exactly as it was. That
is the native language I would argue of the American experiment,
and that's what I want to point out here, and
I love the set up there to continue what we're saying.
We're talking about this because opponents on either side of
(26:45):
any of these pardons or these moves for clemency, they
see it as conspiracy. Now, several of the people in
the involved in the January sixth events were convicted of
seditious conspiracy, which is as hardcore as it sounds.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
It's like eight, it's.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
Not you know, forgetting to wear a seat belt, it's
it's the bad stuff. And so this overthrow right right,
this brings yes, edition, this brings us to a moment,
and we're all here together in this moment, and we
want to hear from you. We'd also love for God,
I'd love for people to check out what's going on
in the Republic of Korea or South Korea right now.
(27:25):
You think January sixth was something here, check out the
events in Korea quite recently, which we briefly alluded to.
But yeah, give us your opinions, write to us, call us,
we'll tell you how to get in touch. At the end,
let us know if you ever got a preemptive pardon
and what that lets you do, Like if you get
(27:47):
a preemptive pardon. We should do an episode on diplomatic
immunity and preemptive partons because I love the idea that
if you were if you were a consular or diplomatic
staff for the right country, you basically never pay for
parking tickets in the United States. That's a weird specific superpower.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
And you get a cool what is it called, like
a pouch, You get the diplomatic pouches.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
That's it until North Korea ruined it for everybody man.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
And this is literally it is like what a briefcase
that is not allowed to be searched more or less?
Speaker 4 (28:20):
Yeah, yeah, because every all the people in power, in
state power collectively said let's keep our secrets, and then
North Korea used it to smuggle hard drugs.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
EO, bad on you, North Korea. That's really crazy considering
how hard they are on drug use and drug trafficking.
A friend of mine actually just got detained coming out
of Korea because he had a weed vape on him
and he was basically in Korean weed jail for three
days and was only released right after the president was impeached.
(28:55):
I don't know. I was going to ask you guys,
do you think that's sort of a clearing the air
kind of thing, where like things are tenuous, let's maybe
let some of these potential political prisoners go because they
can be used that way. You know what, We've seen
it before them.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
I shout out to Dennis Rodman or tip of the
cap to Dennis, tip of the machete. I'll keep it brief,
and I want to talk too much about this on air,
but for anybody who's been in a dicey situation, you
are correct. No, there are often larger mechanics at play,
and people can be used as leverage. The big takeaway,
(29:30):
since we're a family show, is if you are going
to a country that tells you not to take certain
things there, don't don't just beat me here, Dylan, just
believe them, cool man. Don't think you can roll for
charisma on that one. So again, I know I've run
a little long hair. Really appreciate this, and in folks,
(29:50):
we are we are again, cannot emphasize this enough. We
are here with you. We don't have any insider info
on what happens next. We know that a lot of
people are extremely sensitive to what's going on now. A
lot of people feel that their existence is threatened. A
lot of people feel that there is some great reckoning
(30:14):
afoot right, and we're not here to pretend democracy is perfect.
And I think that's one of the biggest takeaways. The
number one is that we want to hear from you.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
And you know, and we care about all of you,
all of our conspiracy realists, all of our wonderful listeners,
and we're not here to force anything down your throat
or tell you what to believe or tell you how
to feel. We're just trying to navigate this world in
this political climate with empathy and open mindedness and doing
the best we can, just like everybody else.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
So as yeah well said so again, I just want
to emphasize and end with this. Tell us what you
believe the conspiracies may be. We are here with you.
We are grateful for your time. We're going to pause
for a word from our sponsors, and then we'll return
and I'm just gonna go to Justice dot Gov real
quick and check out if I got pardon too.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
And we have returned with another piece of strange. This
one's been brewing for a hot minute, and I'm really
excited to talk about this with both of you. But
Matt maybe you specifically because of your I would argue
slightly above average gamer status. You know, Ben, I think
you're up there too. Certainly, I would consider myself a
fair weather gamer a best I enjoy playing video games.
(31:31):
I am not particularly great at any of them. I
do sometimes get flum mixed with games like elden Ring.
I never finished that because it just got a little
too hard for me and I just didn't have time
to get good. Maybe I'll pick it back up again.
But here's the thing. I own my fair weather gamer status.
I would never deign to attempt to compete in any
(31:53):
kind of elite circles or you know, leaderboards or anything
like that. And that's something and it's very important to
a lot of people in the gaming community, obviously with
Twitch streaming, and it's incredibly competitive and stats are so trackable,
and you know, there are people that really want to
be on top. But to be on top in any
of these like elite games like Diablo for for example,
(32:15):
or things like elden Ring, a game called Path of
Exile two, it takes a lot of effort, of grinding,
of sleepless nights of energy drinks to even crack the
top one hundred in games like this, and someone who
has made no secrets about what they describe as there.
(32:37):
You know, in so many words, elite gamer status is
Elon Musk, and he has long been a fan of
video games, as far back as I believe Quake, some
of the early ID software games he was one of these,
even described in gamer communities as being an OG player,
(32:58):
and some of those early kind of online and shooter
games that sort of laid the groundwork for some of
these way way more elaborately trackable and competitive kind of
massive online games. In the controversy around Elon Musk is
not limited to gaming, of course, But I just think
this is a fun little microcosm of some of the
(33:19):
larger controversy surrounding him, which maybe is something surrounding his credibility.
Is this a person that is honest? Is this a
person that is telling the truth about their ideas, their
provenance of their ideas. You know, we know he's got
a history of kind of taking credit for other people's
ideas as far back as PayPal, and also with Tesla,
he fought really really hard to be considered I believe,
(33:42):
a co creator of Tesla. But the reality seems to
be that he co opted that brand by purchasing it
and then tried to kind of pass off some of
those ideas as his own. Well, it seems like the
blinders are off, or the veil has been lifted on
Elon's elite gaming status. This is where I hope you
can you guys can maybe help me make sense of
(34:02):
some of this stuff. As recently as a December of
twenty twenty four, I don't remember the exact I think
there was a video that was published a stream of
him playing this game Path of Exile too on the
seventeenth of December. Some kind of eagle eyed viewers of
this stream noticed there were a few things that were
a little suspicious about Elon's gaming activity, especially for someone
(34:24):
that I believe was level ninety six, which I think
is pretty pretty insanely high. That's great time for sure. Well, yeah,
it's my understanding that once you get past a certain
point of leveling up in that game, as is the
case in games like elden Ring, you have to collect
so much more XP to get to the next level.
Each level beyond that becomes exponentially harder to crack.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
So in a lot of hard a lot of games
that have a long end game, like a long path
to an endgame, will institute other things where your level
gets capped. But then there's all kinds of other perks
that get unlocked each time your quote level and stuff,
and it becomes extremely, as you said, time consuming to
(35:06):
do that stuff. And I think that's maybe the most
important thing to this story, the time it takes, yeah
to get specific gear or to you know, level up
enough times.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Yeah, it's like long division or good editing. There's not
really a shortcut to it, you know what I mean.
And that's that's the question, because I love that we're
bringing this up. I remember distinctly looking at this and thinking,
even as guys never played Path of EXL two or whatever,
(35:36):
I remember thinking.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
How does he find the time?
Speaker 4 (35:39):
And I wasn't trying to be a jerk with that question.
I was just I was thinking of, you know, the
twenty four hours that people have in a day, right,
and the amount required for you know, sleep or like
pooping or eating or you know the basics.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
So I mean, and like our podcast world, you know,
we end up tied up with more meetings than we
would like just in the course of a day. Well,
you know, I love this, it results of me very
but we don't run three of the world's top technology
companies that with with shareholders, and I can't imagine the
(36:18):
amount of stuff that someone like Elon Musk gets pulled
into and to do, uh, the amount of gameplay that
would be required to crack this level. I believe he
claims he has the number and fifty nine hardcore character
is named Kekius Maximus, and he also has several other
hardcore characters who have died. This is a game mode,
by the way, that is permanent death. Matt, can you
(36:40):
explain that a little bit?
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Maybe permanent death you're talking about hardcore characters, like.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
That's right, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. So that means the
character is toast period. What you've built, what you put
into it, it's all gone if you die.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Yes, yeah, it's It's the big old gamble for somebody
who really likes to gamble with their life, like literally their.
Speaker 4 (36:58):
Life, and some game games would not allow you to
opt out of it. I don't know if you guys
ever played the Captain Planet game geez it was famously
it was set to perma death. Like a man harder
than Echo, the dolphin harder and yeah, yeah, I gut
the dolphin was pretty, but boy, that was a slog.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Some of the things that some of these eagle eyed
viewers of the of the stream noticed were things like this,
he didn't seem to know this is all collected, by
the way, and a great post on Reddit documenting the
saga of Elon Musk's account.
Speaker 4 (37:30):
Or Adrian Dittman. That's another guy we should mention.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Isn't that his alter ego? Yeah, I'm walking down the
street today where he's like kind of defends himself from
this this ghost account.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
Yeah, it's kind of like when certain politicians would call
radio shows and pretend to be someone different and talk
about how great they are.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Well, we had an instance of Adrian Dittman defending something
that Elon posted on x and he kind of was
so frustrated. I think that he forgot to change his voice.
That happened recently. That's not in the gaming realm, but
definitely No, No, it's about the credibility, Ben, It's your
one hundred percent correct. It is about the credibility. And
we're going to get further into this. So one thing
that was noticed was he doesn't seem to know how
(38:07):
to use a mana flask when out of Mana. Then
he struggled with it for like over ten seconds, just
like clicking around or whatever. He doesn't seem to understand
that you can only run connected at liss nodes. These
are maps in the game. I believe in a Path
of Exile one they were called maps, but in the
second one they're actually called waste stones or something like that,
(38:27):
and they have to I don't know exactly how the
game mechanic works, but they have to be connected in
order to access them. And so the characters that he's
playing and demonstrating are at levels that would imply that
he had run hundreds, if not thousands of these atless nodes.
So clicking around kind of dumbfoundedly as he did in
the stream is a bit of a red flag. You
(38:48):
guys might understand why this is a red flag. He
picks up items by dragging them into his inventory manually.
I imagine there's a shortcut that more seasoned gamers would use,
especially for playing on a PC of hot key or
you know, a shift click or something like that. But
apparently he's just clicking and dragging them into his inventory.
He seemingly struggles to understand why he cannot pick up
(39:09):
an item win his inventory is full. I mean, I'm
absolute fair weather gamer. I know stuff like that. I
was just telling you guys, like a game like Balder's
Gate seems a little above my pay grade, and these
top down kind of games like this, more D and
D based, I find a little bit confounding, But I
understand that mechanic. He had this comment where he there
(39:30):
were like, I guess four you know, on certain items.
I guess there are I guess buffs that you can install.
You've got like slots for them, maybe on a sword,
like for certain stones, maybe they give it special powers.
Apparently on certain maps it's got these slots for ways
of buffing it in some way. But he referred to
them as the four things map things, as opposed to
(39:54):
like what they actually are, which is something like what
I would do. He's always making comments about how his
gear isn't good because it's low level. But what he
doesn't seem to realize that most of the hardcore players
of this game know is that a low level item
or a low required level item can be better than
a legendary piece of gear. Oftentimes you just have to
(40:16):
know and you have to use it in practice. When
he's making these comments about, oh, it's only level sixty five,
et cetera, he seems to not understand the difference between
item level and required level. I'll just give you one
more and then we can kind of move on to
the twist in the story. The account he is on
puts their maps in a tab called Elon's Maps, So
there's an implication here that this is a shared account,
(40:38):
which is what is in question here, isau there's a
thing called account boosting, or basically you pay someone to
run your account for you, because the level of his character,
the type of elite gear that he has, would require
thousands and thousands of hours of play, and to your point, Ben,
where does he find the time. Recently, an article came
(41:01):
out where, due to a leaked I guess or published
screenshot of some DMS between zach Asman gold Hoyt and
Elon Musk, he has essentially admitted to doing just that,
to paying to have his account boosted. This revelation came,
(41:22):
by the way, this is a great article from Kotaku
by Ethan Gatch. I'm just going to quote from him
here for a second. That revelation came in DMS, he
seemingly exchanged with YouTuber my mistake, it was Nico Rex,
which is another gaming YouTuber, and which were subsequently shared
in a video published on January eighteenth titled addressing All
the Elon mus Drama in Poe two with Elon Musk.
Apparently he was given permission to publish these screenshots. During
(41:45):
the conversations, the Tesla CEO admitted to using account boosting
to compete in Path of Exile two and Diablo four's endgame,
but said there was nothing to apologize for because everyone
is doing it. The question and answer session kind of
went like this, Yeah, have you level boosted, had someone
else's play your accounts and or purchased gear resources for
(42:05):
POE two and Diablo four. Nico Rex asked to wish
Musk responded with a one hundred percent emoji before adding
that it is impossible to beat the players in Asia
if you don't as they do. So when kind of
pressed a little bit further as to his honesty around this,
(42:27):
he kind of rebuffed this by saying that he never
intended or you know, claimed that his top accounts were
only played by him. But you know, in conversations that
he's had on podcasts like Joe Rogan and other places,
he's consistently bragged about this elite gaming status and being
a literal world class gamer according to him. So it's
(42:52):
a little hard to take that at face value because
he really does seem like he's intended and wanted to
be seen as part part of this community and as
an elite player in this community. So it's myth building
right like that.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
That's the big question, you know, part of the part
of the continuing struggle that a lot of very powerful
people have, and he is the world's currently documented most
wealthy dude. The struggle that a lot of powerful people
have is do I accumulate and exercise my powers behind
(43:27):
the scene? Do I use my influence to become a
public figure? And what we're seeing from critics of Musk
pretty often is the idea that he has aired on
the side of being a public figure more so than
being you know, like, for instance, I'll be honest, a
(43:48):
lot of the most powerful entities I have met don't
have social media. Why would you you know what I mean,
why would you open that door? So there is that,
I guess egoistic, maybe ego driven struggle within oneself. And
the thing is, I love that you're pointing out the
conversations on the podcasting because it reminds me of the
(44:13):
old Uh, what's the old narcissist edict? It's what is
the narcissist prayer? That didn't happen? And if it did,
it wasn't that bad. AKA, everyone does it, And if
it was, then it's not a big deal. And if
it is, it's not my fault. And if it was,
I didn't mean it, and if I did, you deserved it.
So really similar to the stages of grief where we're
(44:36):
seeing this play out in real time, and gosh, I hope.
I mean, of all things, you guys, video games are
supposed to be fun.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
And I think that's the point too, is of all
things to be dishonest about video games seems like such
a low stakes thing to risk your reputation on and
your credibility one lying about. And I guess the question
that becomes, if you're that insecure that you're gonna lie
about that, what else are you lying about? Right? The implication? Yeah,
(45:09):
And I just want to just you know, not to
throw him entirely under the bus here. I'm just kind
of reporting what's being said. But his ex wife or
ex partner, Grimes, the very interesting musician artist, did kind
of vouch for him on x saying, just for my
personal pride, I would like to state that the father
of my children was the first American druid in Diablo
(45:29):
to clear Abatoar of ze and ended that season as
best in the USA. He was also ranking in Polytopia
and beat Felix himself at the game. Don't know who
that guy is. I did observe these things with my
own eyes. There are other witnesses who can verify this.
That is all so. I mean, the guy's clearly no
sloutshit gaming, but it does seem like to get to
(45:49):
the levels that he's purporting to have done on his own,
it would seem, you know, requires a little outside help
and investment, And now he's more or less acknowledged that
he's done that. I don't know, take that for what
it's worth, y'all, unless you think we are not going
to mention the interesting hand signal that's being much debated
that he did at the inauguration where he had that Yeah, yeah, well,
(46:12):
I'm just teasing the discussion because now it's not the
time to fully get into that. Let's call it a salute.
We're going to talk about that in this week's Listener
Mail episode. And just to wrap this up real quick, guys,
I don't want to do another story because I don't
have enough time, I don't think, but I did find
a story about some potential arsonists that were detained, that
(46:33):
were arrested for trying to infiltrate the evacuation zones in
the Pacific Palisades area of California of Los Angeles where
these horrific fires took place. They actually had a fake
fire truck and we're dressed in fire gear and we're
apparently it's unclear there were others that were trying to
(46:54):
do this in order to loot houses because these evacuation
zones are off limits for anyone except fire personnel. And
these folks were caught doing this and have been arrested,
and that is not indicated that they were intending to
do arson. But one of the people that was detained,
a man by the name of Dustin Nell, had previously
(47:15):
been convicted for crimes in Oregon involving arson at golf courses.
I was described as a setting off an explosion and
damaging water infrastructure as well as you know some of
the activities at this golf course. I wanted to bring
this up also because I this is a pretty wild
sounding story. We've been hearing a lot of wild sounding
(47:37):
stories that are coming out of these fires. And we
talked a lot when we discussed this last about how
hard it is to parse out the real stories from
the fake stories, the real images from the AI generated images.
It's getting harder and harder, and I absolutely fell victim
to this very thing, and a very helpful listener wrote
(47:57):
in to set me straight. I'm just going to read
that real quick from a listener named David. Hi, guys,
I just started listening to your January twentieth episode and
I had to stop it at the twenty five minute
mark because it was said that firefighters were using women's
purses to carry water. This is absolutely false and part
of the propaganda campaign against California and the firefighters there.
The bags you see are collapsible buckets that are designed
(48:18):
to carry water that's their specific use, and are absolutely
not women's purses. Check on things like this before you
blindly report things you see online, you can use this
on air, David, and I wrote back to David telling
me these absolutely corrects and that we hear on the
show are not perfect and are just as susceptible to
some of this kind of stuff as everyone else. And
I very much apologize for reporting something like that that
(48:39):
was not true. It is a video of these firefighters
using what do appear to be kind of large handled
handbag type things in the commentary, and what I saw
was reporting it as such that they were women's handbags,
and it was meant to be a ding against the
preparedness of the Los Angeles County Fire Department, and that
absolutely was not the case here. So I just want
(48:59):
to openly apologize for getting that wrong and openly say
that I will do better and strive to parse out
some of this stuff, but also acknowledge how tricky it
can be. Yeah, yeah, well said.
Speaker 4 (49:10):
We appreciate you there, Dave, because one of the things
one of the big takeaways from our conversation there previously
was was about exercising critical thought, you know, and and
we've talked about before. It's it's devilishly difficult to suss out,
you know, agenda's origin point ulterior motivations with some things
(49:33):
like we oh, gosh, noll what else. We also mentioned,
you know, the way people might be fleeing from a
home burning down, carrying just what they Yeah, so this
is again where you're with you. This is a collective
I sometimes refer to human existence as the world's longest
(49:55):
non consensual game of improv Uh. So we're we're covering this.
And one thing I really appreciated you pointing out there
in our previous exploration on a Strange News program was,
you know, we are like the rest of the world
exercise and empathy.
Speaker 3 (50:13):
We're very concerned.
Speaker 4 (50:14):
We have friends, we have family, we have loved ones,
just like everybody else out there in California fighting the fires.
Speaker 3 (50:21):
That's right, Yeah, well said Ben, And yeah, I know
this ran long. I think we've got a lot on
our minds today, and we've had a little bit of
a break, so getting back together after a little bit
of downtime, We've got a lot to say, and there's
a lot going on in the world. So we are
going to take a little break here and then come
back with our last segment of Strange News for today's episode.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
And we've returned guys, I'm gonna start with a little quotation.
It is long, but bear with me because I think
it is worth bearing. Gentlemen, you remember a guy named
Bernie Sanders AAA, the Senator from Vermont.
Speaker 3 (50:58):
Yes, yes, a king of Mitten's sick mien game I
was about iconic. Remember the memes with that one with
his cross leg at pose and his cherry brought from home.
Speaker 4 (51:10):
I mean he did some other stuff, sure, but this
is not a quotation from Bernie about Mittens, is it.
Speaker 3 (51:20):
No, it is not.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
So I'm bringing you this quote because I had a
moment sitting in my parents' basement while we were having
some family time on MLK Day, and I happened to
put on the inauguration of President Donald Trump, and I
was struck by an image of a row, a singular
row of human beings that were sitting behind the president
(51:42):
and where the immediately behind where everything was taking place.
And I saw that image, I thought back to some
stuff that i'd heard from the Senator from Vermont, and
it just it kind of crystallized in a moment, and
it has to do with everything we've been talking about
on this episode so far. So I'm going to read
this here we go. This is Senator Sanders talking at
(52:03):
the Brookings Institution, a think tank you should definitely look into.
This is what he had to say in twenty fifteen.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
Quote.
Speaker 2 (52:11):
We are moving rapidly away from our democratic heritage into
an oligarchic form of society, where today we are experiencing
a government of the billionaires, by the billionaires, and for
the billionaires. Billionaire families are now able to spend hundreds
and hundreds of millions of dollars to purchase the candidates
of their choice. The billionaire class now owns the economy,
(52:32):
and they're working day and night to make certain that
they own the United States government. I know people are
not comfortable when I say this. This is still the quote,
but I want you to take a hard look at
what's going on, take a deep breath, and you tell
me whether or not we're looking at a democracy or
whether we're looking at an oligarchy. When you have multiple
single families that's modified a little bit, that have more
(52:54):
political power than the Democratic Party than the Republican Party,
families that can spend unlimited sums of money not only
on campaigns but on think tanks like the one that
he's speaking to and the media. I worry very very
much about the future of democracy in this country.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
Now.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
The reason why that quote was so prescient is because
if you looked at that row of human beings standing
behind a president who is being inaugurated, you saw nine
hundred billion dollars worth of money represented in four families. Yeah,
nine hundred billion dollars essentially in four individuals. But in
(53:32):
the families, you know the family structures of those individuals,
and that is not something that is uncommon for all presidents.
In every inauguration, there are the power players, right, That's
how you get a seat there at the inauguration. You
spent either a lot of money or you got a
lot of power or both.
Speaker 3 (53:51):
Well, and in past, the previous Trump administration, a lot
of these folks were distancing themselves, and it seems like
that narrative has shifted wildly. Well.
Speaker 2 (54:00):
Yeah, and again, no matter how you feel about President Trump,
no matter how you feel about any of the political
stuff surrounding it, the understanding that those folks, the money,
the real real money, is just sitting there kind of
basking in the glory of the power that you know,
a presidential administration represents and kissing.
Speaker 4 (54:21):
The ring, which is a or presenting their rings to
be kissed.
Speaker 3 (54:26):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (54:27):
That's right, that's part of it, because it's interesting. I'd
love that we're bringing this up, Matt. One of the
great tech giants from the US who did not show
up was Bill Gates. And and I'm bringing that into
our conversation here at the end of strange news to
to just ask, uh, how how much higher would that
(54:49):
accreational total value have been if old Bill rolled through?
Speaker 3 (54:54):
You know what I mean? What about Warren Buffett? He's
not He's not throwing his hat in the ring? Has he?
Warren is?
Speaker 4 (55:00):
He made some very Paul warrant, He's made some very
interesting financial moves lately. From what I understand, he's sitting
on a lot of cash, a lot of liquidity. This
is unrelated to our conversation other than the fact that
people who read the buffet tea leaves are pretty sure
he's waiting to see what falls and.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
How Yeah, well, I mean, and if he was there,
it would have increased that nine hundred billion dollar number
by one hundred and forty six billion dollars roughly. And
again with Bill Gates, I don't even know where his
who knows? Just add another one hundred billion.
Speaker 4 (55:37):
Let's say just what between friends, you know what I mean,
just for the table, but you.
Speaker 2 (55:41):
Would get over a trillion dollars worth of power. Because money,
as we've talked about before, is a superpower and you
can use it, you can exercise it in all kinds
of different ways. The reason why I'm bringing all this
up because of this discussion today is because there was
a little thing that was posted on PBS via AP News,
written by James Keaton. It was posted on January twenty first,
(56:02):
twenty twenty five, and the title is Billionaires Wealth soared
in twenty twenty four at least five trillionaires, with a
t expected in next decade. Anti Poverty Group says, okay,
so one of the major one of the major things here.
(56:24):
We just talked about one point seven million dollars as
being a massive sum of money in nineteen twenty, nineteen ninety,
nineteen nineteen, and just how much money that was and
how much power that gave you one point seven million.
And then you know, over the course of our lives,
we've seen that number and it's joked about in the
(56:46):
Austin Powers films, right, one billion dollars. How a billion
then became the crazy number that people would not get to.
That's insane, That's that's volcano layer money.
Speaker 3 (56:56):
I mean, the idea of a millionaire is quaint, you
know the day and it's going to starter home in
some cities is a million dollars you know.
Speaker 2 (57:05):
Yeah, looking at you, Austin. But the crazy thing now
is thinking that within ten years there could potentially be trillionaires,
like real true trillionaires, at least according to Oxfam International.
All of these you know organizations, the Brooking Is Institute,
Oxfam International. There are things that are worth your time
(57:27):
to look into, just so you have an understanding of
the institution, who formed it, why they formed it.
Speaker 4 (57:32):
Ooh, and check out our earlier episodes on Think Takes.
Speaker 2 (57:35):
Yes, episodes on Thing Takes so many episodes to go
back to to really ponder some of this stuff. But
just to me, if you read through that article that
I just mentioned that you can find on PBS right now,
it is astounding to imagine the Davos.
Speaker 3 (57:51):
Didn't we talk about Davos in Think Tanks, Yes?
Speaker 4 (57:53):
Or was it?
Speaker 3 (57:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (57:54):
It happens in Switzerland where the most powerful influential, rich
human beings get together and just have ideas together.
Speaker 4 (58:02):
Yeah, it's like, uh, it's it's like the first class
version of Ted Talks. Yes, or actually it's the it's
the private plane of Ted Talks and oh gosh, yeah,
we have an episode on that.
Speaker 3 (58:14):
It's in Bohemian Grove type vibe. I mean, it really
is where the big big players go to have kind
of closed door yeah, you negotiations statues.
Speaker 4 (58:25):
But I would say Bohemian Grove is kind of JV
to the Yeah, Davos is to our earlier point. I
love how you're sewing this together, Matt. Davos is where
you're going to see those folks who have made the
decision not to be a public figure but rather to
acquire further power behind the scenes. And they're saying what
(58:47):
they think they're going to make the world a better place,
but for whom?
Speaker 3 (58:51):
Yeah, yeah, well and who knows.
Speaker 2 (58:54):
But I don't have I have enough wisdom to sit
here and say, well, maybe you know, these billionaire guys
are all bad, but I do know that it is
concentrated power and to watch, you know, and they are guys,
these four guys, to watch them stand there as the
you know, proceedings were occurring, all the presidential stuff, and
(59:16):
just to kind of examine their eyes a little bit.
Speaker 3 (59:20):
It does it did give me pause.
Speaker 2 (59:21):
It made me wonder what was brewing because it is
actual actionable power that then they are potentially wielding.
Speaker 4 (59:32):
And what is their you know, what is their connection is?
It is a very you know, high stakes drama like
you would see on prestige television like Game of Thrones
or something like that. I love that you're playing this out.
And I hate to say it, guys, this is not
Devil's Advocate. I'm not doing a Pacino move here, but
(59:53):
I will point out that no matter who you are,
it gets super awkward when you have to stand there
and watch a thing for a long time and there's
a camera on you. Oh yeah, you know that's I'm
aware of that. But I do have to I do
have to back you up there, Matt on the on
(01:00:13):
the the haunting question. Right, for any of these things,
in the absence of transparency, speculation only thrives. What do
these guys talk about?
Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
Right? What's their interaction? Like?
Speaker 4 (01:00:26):
What brings them to the same physical location which is
a huge security risk as well. Well?
Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
Yeah, and you just have to hope that it those
discussions aren't based on further accumulation of wealth for themselves
and there is some kind of bigger picture we can
make this world a better place and it's not self serving.
You just you hope in your heart. Oh man, it.
Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
I'm not feeling a lot of that recently in the world.
Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
It's uncaps There's just no way. When you get past
a certain point of wealth, you're basically above the law
and you can do and say just about anything you want.
I mean, we've just seen it. At a certain level
of wealth, it's really hard to go after these folks
as individuals or as you know, their corporations, which also
have all this massive political contribution power now because of
(01:01:18):
Citizens United.
Speaker 4 (01:01:19):
I mean, there's also I got to shout it out.
The monopoly experiment, you guys. The monopoly experiment is a
microcosmic examination of why we are so concerned. Check out
our what was that episode? Does be wealthy make you
a bad person? We talk at length about. Oh gosh,
it's it's fascinating. Go to your platform, your browser of
(01:01:45):
choice and check out the Monopoly Experiment Wealthy, and you
will have a harrowing, look at why we are so concerned.
Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
But yeah, up with you man? Maybe optimism.
Speaker 4 (01:01:56):
You know what, if they get together and they just
talk about like how the Atlanta Felt Falcns never win,
or cooking tips for crock pots.
Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
Maybe I don't think they do.
Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
I'm I just want.
Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
To stress this.
Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Sitting here as I speak into this microphone, I do
not see those individuals as bad people or good people.
I see those guys as people with tremendous potential, and
it's like they get to decide what they do with
that power they have. And I you know, I know
they'll never hear this, but dang, I don't know. As
(01:02:33):
a whole of humanity, if we could somehow just send
our psychic energy to the billionaires, it'd be like, let's
do let's do some cool stuff that's not about profit anymore.
Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
Dude.
Speaker 4 (01:02:45):
Money is a religion. It's the dominant religion in this age.
I'm not going to stop saying that, and I love it.
Like you, if you could do anything, then why do
you like? How do you choose what you want to do?
It's the bubble of normalcy right because these people have
roughly the same factory equipment as any other human being. Right,
(01:03:05):
so maybe they suffer from the controversy of Dunbar's number.
Imperfect science, but pretty interesting. Yeah, I'm just thinking, like,
you know, what if you what we see these stats
all the time, dude. People will say, look, you make
x billion dollars, right, even if you don't do anything,
(01:03:26):
just your interest therefore will be millions of dollars.
Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
What if you just took that.
Speaker 4 (01:03:31):
Adjusting for inflation, meaning that you will never lose money.
What if you just put that extra stuff into things
like sanitation, literacy, infrastructure, all the boring beat me here, Dylan,
all the boring that makes civilization possible.
Speaker 3 (01:03:46):
Why yeah, why are you doing that.
Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
That doesn't prop up a single philosophy, a single culture,
a single country, a single anything, stuff that helps human
beings proliferate in a really healthy and beautiful way.
Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
Could I read a quick quote? I think I maybe
have mentioned this before. It might have been about something else.
But there's this clip making the rounds of the musician
Frank Zappa from an interview that he did. I think
it was on Crossfire in the eighties. In the late eighties,
when he was against President Ronald Reagan's policy he actually
testified about censorship at the Parents' Music Resource Center Senate
(01:04:24):
Hearings ninet eighty five. But he just had this to
say on this segment. The biggest threat to America today
is not communism. It's moving America toward a fascist theocracy.
And everything that's happened during the Reagan administration is steering
us right down that pipe. When you have a government
that prefers a certain moral code derived from a certain religion,
that moral code turns into legislation to suit one certain
(01:04:44):
religious point of view, and if that code happens to
be very very very far right wing, almost Attila the
hun type stuff can happen. And I just think, you know,
in this case, religion or theocracy could also just be
like money that is a religiou and that is the
primary mover and the primary motivator for these billionaires that
(01:05:06):
are now in power, and it just kind of throws
a lot of other moral decisions and ideas about what's
right and wrong for regular people kind of out the window.
Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
Well, yeah, and you can take any dogmatic belief and
stretch it all the way out to the edge, and
it can become terrifying for everybody. Right, it doesn't matter
if it's right, left, center, or anything. It can become
terrifying for everybody else that doesn't view the world in
that way.
Speaker 4 (01:05:31):
Self justification is a hell of a drug, and people
do it in your own environment.
Speaker 3 (01:05:36):
All the time.
Speaker 4 (01:05:36):
Right, Everybody sees themselves as the main character, the good guy. Therefore,
anybody who is not immediately like worshiping it that ideology
becomes treated like an enemy.
Speaker 3 (01:05:49):
Oh yeah, unfortunately. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
Well, and somebody who's so entrenched in that kind of
thing can see everybody as an enemy, and then that's
how you get to the demagogue stuff. So it's just
it's horrifying in a lot of ways. But I want
to point out one last thing I noticed at the
inauguration that I think is a cool little lesson for everybody.
When I tuned in, it happened to be right at
(01:06:12):
the tail end of when President Trump was speaking, and
they introduced Carrie Underwood, who was a singer, a country
singer is coming out to sing a song, and she
was going to sing America the Beautiful And she was
flanked by a military officer who was going to be
a part of the I guess a choir that was
singing America the Beautiful with her, and there's a backing
(01:06:33):
track that is supposed to begin playing, but the tech
side couldn't could not get the backing track to play.
Carrie just stood there a bit awkwardly with the microphone, waiting,
you know, for the track to play so that she
could begin singing, and just kept waiting and nothing happened.
Then all of a sudden, a tiny snippet of the song,
(01:06:53):
you know, a minute into the song began playing over
the loudspeakers and then shut off and then start playing
again and then stopped. And everybody's looking around awkwardly, just
like what do we do in this moment? And they're
all just human beings standing quietly in that rotunda together
in silence. As the murmurations start to, you know, the
tiny talking begins. Everyone's talking around, and finally a producer
(01:07:18):
walks up to carry and just says, hey, there's something
akin to the track's not working. And you can't hear that,
but you see the person who's got you know, a headset.
You walk up to her or the clipboard and be like,
I don't know, and she goes all right, y'all you
know the words, and she just begins singing a cappella
and it is a beautiful song about a country that
we're all a part of and at least the you
(01:07:39):
know on this recording. And it was actually a really
nice moment because the humanity of everybody in that room
was there because everybody was singing, everybody was singing together,
and nobody was different from one another in that moment.
And I know this is weird, and I'm sorry. It's
all like America, Yah yah.
Speaker 3 (01:07:56):
I think I do think we all want the best
for this country and want to be united, and I
don't think any of us on this podcast are looking
for division. That is the last thing that we want.
Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
But at the heart of it, it's it's humanity. That's
what I saw, right, So it's it wasn't actually it
was about a country. It was a song about a country.
It was celebrating of the president of you know, the
country with the most powerful navy or whatever. But at
the heart of it, it was human beings together celebrating humanity,
and it was kind of beautiful. And no matter how
you feel about any of that stuff, I would just say,
(01:08:31):
there's something to that that we can all we can
all learn.
Speaker 4 (01:08:35):
From and we can all aspire to uh to participate
within you know very well, said Map beautifully put. This
is again the secret is that there are a lot
of people who have a lot of plants, but if
you get down to it, nobody's really in charge. That's
the that's the craziest part. People are working hopefully working together,
(01:08:59):
and we in that spirit hope that you will work
with us, you will join us and gosh, dare I
say it, Matt sing along with us in these moments.
There are several ways to do so, please reach out
and contact us, reach out and touch faith again. As
we said at the top, we are here with you
(01:09:21):
in this long, non consensual improv game called life. You
can find us on email. Just wrote a couple of
had a great correspondence earlier today. You can call us
on the telephone. We're excited to hear from you. You
can also reach us on the internets, so long as
the Internet doesn't go full dead Internet.
Speaker 3 (01:09:39):
Theory, that's right. You can find us at the handle
conspiracy stuff or we exist on the usual social media
platforms of note, including YouTube, where we have video content
galor for your perusing enjoyment x FKA, Twitter, and Facebook,
where we have our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy.
On Instagram and for the meantime TikTok. You can find
us handleg at Spirac Stuff Show. We're also human people,
(01:10:02):
the three of us, and you can find us that
way too. I'm on Instagram at how Now, Noel Brown,
mister Ben Bullen.
Speaker 4 (01:10:09):
No comment reassuming humanity. You can find me at Ben
Bullen on Instagram. You can, of course if you have
the right scrine, mirror or a pall and teer. Always
just knock thrice if you know the code, I'll drop by.
Speaker 3 (01:10:25):
Matt.
Speaker 4 (01:10:26):
I want to shout you out for a video that
was posted recently on social media pertaining to some of
our future activities in Brooklyn.
Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
Oh yes, why not check out on AirFest. It's happening
this February in Brooklyn, New York. Specifically, we are doing
a live show at National Sawdust on February nineteenth, So
if you want to come hang with us in Brooklyn,
why not do that? Yeah, just check it out. Make
your way over there to National Sawdust. It's an awesome
(01:10:58):
venue and we're going to do some stuff about conspiracies
of sound. Indeed, Hey, if you want to call us
Our number is one eight three three std WYTK. When
you call in, you've got three minutes. Say whatever you'd like.
Please give yourself a cool nickname and let us know
if we can use your name and message within that message.
If you got more to say than can fit in
(01:11:19):
a three minute voicemail, why not instead send us a
good old fashioned email.
Speaker 3 (01:11:22):
We are ooh ooh before we get to the email.
Speaker 4 (01:11:25):
We are the people who are excited to tell you
about some of the stories we didn't get to, including
China's artificial son. Shout out to the experimental advanced superconducting Tokomac,
which just broke a milestone infusion energy research. Oh my gosh,
if you know anything about nuclear energy, please write to us.
(01:11:45):
Please give us the skinny on whether this is good news,
terrible news, or amazing news. We spent a lot of
time on pardons and commutations today. We can't wait to
hear your opinion on that. Write to us, give us
the links, give us the photographs you know, send us
pictures of your favorite shadow monsters or your favorite pets.
(01:12:07):
We can't wait to read it and be well aware.
Sometimes the void writes back, how can you prove that
to yourself.
Speaker 3 (01:12:13):
There's only one way.
Speaker 4 (01:12:15):
Join us out here in the dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio
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Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
Stuff they Don't want you to know is a production
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