The Stuff Casinos Don't Want You To Know: Live in Vegas

While casinos work around the clock to create a glitzy, glamorous, spontaneous feeling, it turns out they are some of the most tightly-controlled environments on Earth. Every possible variable is accounted for. Every conceivable psychological tendency is leveraged -- even the geography of the casino has been the subject of intense research. This is all done to keep you there, playing, for as long as possible. Because the longer you play, the more money the casino stands to win. In tonight's special live episode, Ben, Matt and Noel dive deep into the Stuff Casinos Don't Want You To Know.

They don't want you to read our book.: https://static.macmillan.com/static/fib/stuff-you-should-read/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is Nol.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer Paul Michigan Control deck and most importantly, you
are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff
they don't want you to know. And as you might
be able to tell, folks, we are recording live on
the road in Las Vegas. You are listening to stuff
they don't want you to know, live at the iHeart

(00:47):
Podcast studio Howard by Bows at the House of Music
at iHeartRadio Music Festival.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
You might be able to hear some bops. There might
be some mild bops in the background. It's just part
of the show. Yeah, work live as we say, we're
on the road. We're right here in this whole plaza thing,
all kinds of beautiful Las Vegas. What do you call
a Los Vegan? A Las Vegan?

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Here we go, Oh nice, but hebe But don't worry.
Paul Mission control decking is going to cut them lows, Yes,
all them beats.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah, speaking of which, could you temporarily kill your mic?
I think it's blasting us. I'm feeling blasted.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
I think it might just be the music it was
off because it's you know what, all right, let's keep
the whole part of the program. So, so the way
we thinking we do this, guys we're talking about this
off air is let's just treat it like we treat
so many conversations we have when we're hanging out off
air at a bar somewhere, or at a at a
restaurant or on the street.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
Uh we were.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
We are recording live and as you know, folks, we
end up in some strange situations. So, uh, Matt, No,
maybe we could paint the picture here. This is not
our usual studio. How would we describe it.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
It's like a hyper lounge situation. We're in the hyper lounge,
but it's more like a hyper cube. It it's a
little box in this pavilion. It's wonderful. It's the bows
house of music from my heart and we're having I mean, honestly,
the show's been amazing. Yeah, we've spent some time in
some places we don't typically spend time in the casino, resort,

(02:19):
hotel multi use compounds.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Right, yeah, and it gave us the opportunity to finally
do an episode that's been on our collective mind for
some time. The stuffed casinos don't want you to know.
Here are the fact. Well, you know what, before we
get to hear the fact, since we're live, let's just
catch up because I think we all now have weird
Vegas stories already, just being in country for sorry, being

(02:44):
in a city for a few hours. Now, I am
going by Greg mcclana. Haha, that is true.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
It's a mouthful man.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah, I didn't choose it. What had happened was I
went into the hotel room. There was a facilities guys
are air in the hotel room. Very nice dude, shout
out Francis, and then he said, uh, look, let me
give you one hundred dollars voucher for the casino. I said,
thank you, and then I texted you guys about it.
The name they wrote was not what they usually call

(03:14):
me in Atlanta. It was Greg mccleana, ha ha. And
so now that's how I've been going.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
It's a missed opportunity because it could have been Greg
mcclana Hannah from Atlanta.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
Oh, that would have been nice.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
But do you think he wrote that on there right
he wrote it? I think he was going for the
hat or do you think it was meant to be
maybe McClanahan like the Golden Girls. Isn't her name? What
is her name, Rue McClanahan.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Oh, that is right, right, right, Blanche Duvois.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
Blanch Dubois, exactly iconic character. But you got that hundred
bucks right, And immediately it was like, huh, what should
I do with this, this hundred dollars voucher, which, by
the way, was because of this crazy MGM hack which
we've all been affected by. In these Vegas hotels, the
lights and the curtains and everything's like operated by an iPad.
Their whole interconnectedness between the casino business, part of the business,

(04:00):
the resort, all of that. It's all you know, owned
servers and massive IT operation, and this hack shut it
down like all kinds of issues, including light's not coming
on engineer.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Friends of the show, there's a reason that you guys
are always guys, gals and others are always telling us
to go analog for things because where we're at there
are tablets that run everything. It's it's fascinating because it
helps control the environment. And that's where we start with casinos.
Here are the facts. While everything may look glitzy and

(04:36):
glamorous and caffrey and spontaneous on the surface of every casino,
make no mistake, modern casinos are one of the most
carefully controlled environments you will ever enter. We were talking
about this a little bit off air. From the moment
you cross that threshold, a small army of highly trained
staff is leveraging the latest and surveillance technology. They're wielding

(04:58):
the newest insights in psychoology, and they're doing it all
to make sure that you have a great time and
pay for it every single step of the way.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
It's interesting too, because I mean a lot of these
techniques and tactics are quite old, but they've just been
updated and sort of like plused up with all of
the technology pieces of it that you're talking about. It's
we all also went to the miow Wolf Omega Mart,
which is I think ironically a little bit Grocery stores
are laid out very similarly with the same kind of

(05:30):
weaponized psychology as casinos, and this Omega Mart thing is
like this psychedelic grocery store. I think it's very appropriate
that that's the installation they have here in Vegas.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
You know, Yes, it's both a protest against capitalism and
a celebration thereof. And case in point to when we
when we talk about controlled environments. We landed last night
Litstene Noel. I played blackjack with you and Paul, and
before that, Matt, I played blackjack with you and Paul.

(06:00):
Maybe I'm the one with the problem, but we had
a pretty whole You ended up up.

Speaker 3 (06:05):
Though, So I don't think. I mean problem is relative
as we're gonna get into, and it comes to the
idea of gambling. But I like, I blasted through two
hundred dollars on blackjack like it was nothing, and that
is by design. They trick your brain into thinking the
money's not real. Man, I can go all night and
I'm gonna get back up. I swear to God's gonna happen.
It's gonna happen for me.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Well, I've got a really good example of that. Actually
where I ended up spending I didn't mean to. I
ended up spending one hundred dollars on the slot machines. Oh,
but then I won one hundred dollars with that one
hundred dollars, and I ended up being seven dollars up
at the end.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
But you felt I felt amazing.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
You felt like you won one hundred and seven dollars.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, it was incredible because it I did technically win
like one hundred and twenty. I won like way more
than I lost, way more than actually one. Basically what
it was saying.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
See drunk lady trying to get up in the scene.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yeah, we're loving it. We're loving it.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
This guy did.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yes, Yes, that's really paint. There's a set of glass
doors in front of us. We're in a cube here
performing about.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
The size of the Old a little bit smaller and
the old stuff. You should know performing.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
We're hanging out, man. Yeah, we're vibing, is what we're doing.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
Oh, you're right, Sorry, I shouldn't use that. I mean,
you know, we're we're making a podcast.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
We're putting on a show for the people outside the right.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, we're And I was talking about this off air,
you know, I told each few in different conversations that
I kind of like the setup because I love validation.
I don't know about you guys, but every time I
walk into a zoo, I'm like, this orangutang gets all
the attention.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
What if I want some stands nice to mention? If
they then validate your parking, then that's like double violidation.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
The Orangutang's got validated parking. I knew that.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
I knew it from the Joe, the stars of the show,
just like us in this particular interesting situation which I'm
again loving. But you know, the one hundred dollars voucher
you started off with that I believe as your sort
of seed money. I busted out instantly.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
It was.

Speaker 3 (08:12):
It was just absurd how quickly it went, but I had.
I enjoyed every second of it, weirdly, all good time.
It was sitting with my dudes at the blackjack table,
felt like I was in a movie or something. Felt
like it was worth the privilege of sitting with you gentlemen,
that two hundred dollars was the price of admission.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
And also think about the way we would have spent
the money otherwise. You know, it's it's fascinating because we
are we're participating in something that is an ancient human pursuit,
ye are?

Speaker 2 (08:41):
But yeah, yeah, well yeah, because it is, it does
feel great, even if you do lose a little bit
of money. But the line is so fine there when
it comes to the amount of money you've lost, right
because it very quickly, all of a sudden becomes an
unsustainable loss.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
Ah.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, and the time laps. The perception of time, which
we talked about often, is part of it. And that's like, okay,
So casinos modern casinos are not actually that old. It's
so weird. They only date back a few centuries.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
You know.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
The first casinos were in Italy in the seventeenth or
the seventeenth century, so the sixteen hundreds, and they existed
to provide, get this, a controlled gambling environment, a place
where you might not get stabbed. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
And then of course you know into like the the
boom and bust era, the gold Rush and all that
stuff in the American West, you know, places that have
been kind of I guess the film, well, it was
a film, but the television series Dead Would I don't
think that was exactly correct in terms of the historical
figures and the way they all kind of connected in

(09:52):
that particular series. But what it represents was a very
specific time and place where you had these saloons that
also served as of ill repute, and then you know
games of chance and and restaurants and liquor.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, and what was the thing with sawdust, Well, that's
what I was getting to.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
I mean, and then in these early days the model was,
you know, there was all kinds of crazy stuff going on.
You mentioned. I think the Europeans maybe had it figured
out better, because people got killed all the time, to
the point where they had to start confiscating people's you know,
side arms or whatever before they went in. But people
still got murdered and their blood would just soak up
into the sawdust that was all over the floor or

(10:28):
their bodily excretions or whatever it might be theirs yet, Yeah,
and then they just sweep it up at the end
of the night, and then they just pour another you know,
sawdust kind of load on the floor the next day.
And it was so that floors, the sub floors wouldn't
get soaked through and damaged. But it was obviously super nasty, not.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
A great look. I mean, I'm glad you're mentioning the US,
because if you fast forward through time, we'll see that
European settlers and colonists they brought their favorite games along
with them, but those games were games that are originated
from somewhere else. Yes, they brought the ancient games like chess,
but they also bought roulette, and as soon enough, Mississippi

(11:09):
steamboats picked up gambling, like in that amazing film, and
I don't mean that in a good way, the Maverick
starring Mel Gibs.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
So that's roughly Deadwood adjacent a little later, I think
that was right.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah, it's around there. So in like, for another perspective,
we know that as far back as eighteen twenty nine,
probably earlier, people in New Orleans were playing some version
of poker for money. And as we learned pretty recently,
there are way more versions of poker than we thought.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
Yeah, like in Deadwood, for example, they've got games that
they don't call it that anymore. Froh was one, which
I think is a dice game, but there was other
you know, if you've ever played like Red Dead, Redemption,
some of the gambling type games like Liars dice and
you know, games that are have fallen out of fashion,
but we're kind of the early you know, games of chance.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
Well we're in this country. Oh yeah, we're going to
get into that. I like that you're talking about different
kinds of poker, because one of the things we're going
to get into later is the carnival style games that
are based upon games we know, like poker and blackjack
and roulette and.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
All of those. Yeah, yeah, and we can we can
fast forward here too, because we haven't gotten quite to
the crazy part. Although this is a very strange story.
There was another big sea change, a paradigm shift that
occurred when technology entered the gambling floor. Now, technology had
always has always been driven by vice.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
Right.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
The reason VHS one over Beta max was due to pornography, right,
And that's just true. Another vice you could say is
war and conflict always drives technological innovation. Gambling, while it
is a recreational thing that is a lot of fun
and doesn't hurt people usually, it also was driven by innovation.

(12:58):
The mechanization later, the computerization at gambling meant that casino
owners could finally do something they always dreamed of doing
for centuries. They could monitor, predict, and regulate winnings. Right
in terms of the ability to track people's.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
Behavior using surveillance and all that stuff, and also just
the ability to scale. You know, once you have machines
that don't require human input, then you can just dump
dozens of them onto a giant space like the size
of an airplane hangar, and just kind of let them
run themselves. And I think one thing that we all learned,
and we were looking into this kind of stuff, is

(13:36):
there's a law in Las Vegas and maybe in other
states too, or in other cities, where these machines are
required to pay out a certain amount compared to what
is put into them. Yes, and the companies these different
resort hotels and casinos, they know exactly what that number
is and they're not going to pay out a penny
more than that. So the jackpots are regulated and paid

(13:57):
out just to hit that number.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, that gets to what we call progressive machine. That's
because they're connected together, uh such that when more people
are playing them, just like an M M O r
PG Uh, they pay out the jackpot increases.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
Isn't that how the lottery works too? Like you see
it on a big billboard, the number keeps getting iron
it's because of how many people have bought tickets.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Just say collection, let's stop this recording, let's head back
to the casino. Let's get crown people let's all go
play the same slot machines, and let's see how people
have tried that.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
People have tried that. It goes back to the prisoners,
the prisoner's dilemma, the old game theory, because everybody will
be on board when it's fifty folks, you know, all
going in on a lottery ticket. But what if one
person is the winner? It's a different will will they cooperate?
Will they do what they said they will do? With hope?
One would? I think the three of us will be

(14:54):
good at it. But the first uh wait.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
Let let's talk about the floor, the casino floor right now,
the ones that we're in. Okay, all of that, all
of the video game machines, sure that are allegedly slot machines.
They're slot machines. They're all video game machines that didn't
even start until what oh that's right.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yes, So the first gambling machine, the early version of
the slot machine, doesn't come along until nineteen seventy six,
The first video slot machine, the first gambling ones. In general,
people are still fighting over this. If you're playing people
are still fighting over this. If you're playing trivia and
someone tells you was definitely in New York or definitely

(15:36):
San Francisco contest.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
That nineteen hundreds, like ten yeah, yeah, because I got
to say really quickly. I went on a really neat
tour yesterday of the Museum of Neon here in Las Vegas,
and I learned a bunch of very interesting things because
it's literally all of these old signs from these casinos
from the back to the founding of Las Vegas kind
of as we know it in terms of like being

(15:59):
a gambling mecca. And one thing I learned was that
Las Vegas was only founded as a city in as
early as nineteen oh five, and it wasn't until like
the forties that it really kind of got.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
Going the way really know it.

Speaker 3 (16:15):
Yeah. And one thing that was interesting too is I think,
if I'm not mistaken, Las Vegas was one of the first,
if not the first city to integrate. And it was
because of all these black performers that weren't allowed to
gamble in the casinos where they were singing, you know,
like Sammy Davis Junior, which now has Yeah, that's right.
And it was because of that that there was this

(16:37):
sea change and they made there was originally I think
one casino where the where black performers were allowed to
hang out. But then they changed the law and it
was because of these performers and the kind of power
they wielded, so very progressive city that interesting way. But
this guy, Benny Binyon is the reason. He was like
kind of an old cowboy type guy, grew up in
Texas and then moved to Vegas in the forties. He

(16:58):
got went to prison for taxation. But he also is
the reason that the sawdust thing started getting replaced with
carpet and that created the idea of kind of crappy
casinos were known as sawdust joints, and like nice casinos
were known as carpet joints.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Wow, you know it's it's weird because I've I've been
looking around at different houses and stuff, and carpet is
uh not houses, but it's in for casinos because it
feels homey.

Speaker 4 (17:27):
Right.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
I want to stick on those slot machines just for
one more second, just because there's in the casino where
we're staying, there's this tiny little room in the back
that has the old manuals, and I just want to
just really quickly think about the mechanical movement required to
activate a slot machine versus now with a with a

(17:50):
physical movement with your arm on a lea like your
arm like a lever to a lever. Right, so every
time you put in a coins, at the time pull
that lever, you made a bet. Right. And now with
the advent of these video machines, it is literally just
you touch a button like you would an arcade game,
or you would, you know, on a remote control somewhere.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
You trigger an RNG or random number generator. Right, that's exactly.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
But but you're the physical action you need to take.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
Is and and this changes things. One could argue the
reason there are some machines that have ornamental slots, they're
still clearly video, they're not mechanical. They have that because
they are leveraging muscle memory. That's part of the crazy
action here. In nineteen ninety four, Antigua and Barbuda passed

(18:40):
the Free Trade and Processing Act that let people open
online casinos, which is a big thing. But right now
online casinos and online gambling in their own bag of badgers.
Physical casinos rule the roost. When you think of gambling, Macau,
Monte Carlo and of course the metropolis of Las Vegas.

(19:02):
You can in each of these places. You can live
in a city all its own. Las Vegas is not
one city. It's like multiple huge Matt, we compared to
cruise ships before. It's multiple self contained cities. You can eat, sleep, drink, shop,
see shows, gamble, romance, you name it.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
All, wards and bonus points, yes.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
And get apps, all without leaving your casino. And that
is very much by design. You see, it turns out
there's plenty of stuff casinos don't want you to know.
Will pause for a word from our sponsors, and then
we'll roll the dice, pull the lever, push the button,
push the button. Here's where it gets crazy. First and foremost. Yes,

(19:58):
as Noel and Matt and Paul Michigan control by far
the most successful black jackman of us can confer. A
casino is meant to take your money.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Paul made so much money on blackjack.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
I don't think that much money.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
I mean, look compare to what I lost.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
I'm a big up.

Speaker 3 (20:16):
I know, I'm proud of you. To Paul, I'm just
being funny. I'm just I'm bitter. I'm jealous of what
it is. And then I texted the group. I was like,
I got a blackjack app. You guys, I figured it
all out. I'm going back in for seconds. I'm gonna
win it all back. You guys were saying something interesting,
and we're obviously jumping around here a lot because we're
kind of in the midst of this, and it's it's
very interesting. But the idea of the experiential quality of

(20:40):
the muscle memory, Ben, you pointed out on the machines
and since here most of them is just that button
push that you were talking about, Matt. What you do
get though, is the same thing that we love in
video games, explosions of sparkly loot that comes out of
people you murder in borderlands or whatever. Sounds that you
know sync up with visuals and clicks and bops, and

(21:02):
it just really and that is just as much part
of the whole muscle memory that's almost replaced it because
it used to be the machines would just go ding
ding ding ding or whatever. Now it's like a surround
sound experiential thing and you get micro reward.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
Yes, right, well, you got to keep them strong. The
log I'm tapping, I'm tapping the inside of my elbow, folks,
give me another code. It means if you do the
attic side what we're talking about, right right, Yes, we'll
get to this.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
The the it's all the same thing with video games
mobile games where you get in game current, so you
can pay for one currency in most games, and that
one can buy you pretty much anything.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Games have multiple currency, but.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
Then there will be a secondary one that you win
your crew by playing the game, and with that one
you can get like lesser stuff, but you still feel
like you're winning reward.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
Right because it triggers the dopamine. That's why I call
social media that don't put me casino.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
And eventually, in the situation you're talking about, Matt, you're
you're going to spend another book, even if it's just
the one, because no, no, they gave me something for
my investment. Almosts I got mores. I'm so close. Uh so.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
Yeah, it's it's edging into dopamine and reward, and you're
you know, there's nothing wrong with what's happening. There's nothing
illegal there either. At base, you're paying for entertainment. It's
the same way you would pay to go to an
amusement park. All right, I hear there's the possibility you
would win a roller coaster. That's the only difference.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
I rarely enjoyed losing my money. It was it was
like I paid for a ticket to a theme park.
That's I enjoyed it. I'm not mad.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
No, I want to say I want to point out
something that a pal Paul said that really stuck with me.
We walked over to an ATM. ATMs and casinos are
notorious for having a high transaction fee, similar to that
you would see in some adult inner atainment venues. And
I've heard and so what and as shout out, Clairemont

(23:06):
Lounge And as Paul pointed out, we pulled he pulled
some cash from a casino ATM before we went on
our first blackjack four eight. Now, Paul is one of
the smartest guys we know, and he just shrugged and said,
with that typical Paul aplom he said, huh, look at that.
The house is already winning. Yeah, yeah, you remember that.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Oh yeah, Well the whole point is okay, So where
we are located in Las Vegas, at the casino where
we happen to be staying in our own happy little
live level of situation, it would take us. We were
trying to calculate how long it would take for us
to get to an ATM that is branded for just

(23:49):
a bank, right that one of us has an account
with versus going to one of the in house ATMs
which are going to charge.

Speaker 3 (23:56):
I think it was tenne idea. It was literally nine ninety,
which is its own kind of weaponized psychology. Of course,
you know it's.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
A deal because you read the first number.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
Ben, But what did you put it? Really?

Speaker 3 (24:09):
Well?

Speaker 2 (24:09):
Ben, it was something like they immediately win before you've
even played.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah, of course, I mean, and that's and that's part
of the great game, right, different great game, the casino
great game. Like when we look around the floor and
we were talking about this, we learn a little bit
more about the surveillance, the psychology, the matho play. When
you're paying attention, we notice every possible variable that could
result in us spending some cash has been accounted for

(24:38):
and if possible, wherever possible, whenever possible, it has been optimized.
And maybe we talk about the gaming floor itself, like
we've been well.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
Remember that guy, Benny, Ben and I mentioned ago the carpet, right, Yeah,
it's like a big part of the feature or a
bug depending on where you stand.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
Depending on the cleanliness.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
Well that's exactly right. But what you'll notice in any
of these casinos, as one usually in the gaming areas,
low ceilings, all these weird, low hanging bizarrow chandelier things to.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
Feel more intimate, as Bill Friedman.

Speaker 3 (25:10):
Low light but not too low. Music that you can
tap your toe to but isn't distracting. It's weirdly ambient feeling.
And that carpet weird psychedelic patterns that kind of are
almost painful to look at for too long, which keeps
your eyes squarely planted on the game.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
Man, I want to play in a casino that just
has Tom Waits on the soundtrack. They're in Old Vegas.
If they do, maybe they're nugget it's got it.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
That's more like a Texas roadhouse. Manon't get that.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Maybe we'll make our own.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
Can I get one that's all prodigy?

Speaker 1 (25:45):
Of course you can.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
That's a little I don't think the house is gonna
like that very much.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
What do you say? Do you beat me here, Paul?
Do you say smacked my chup instead of hit me?

Speaker 2 (25:56):
What?

Speaker 3 (25:56):
No?

Speaker 2 (25:56):
I was talking about? I want to I want to
start fires.

Speaker 4 (25:59):
They're both great songs, they're both songs of their time,
but the thing is just like the grocery store thing,
just like the cruise ship, just like the Live Laugh.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
Love, you know, mixed use apartment complex places. The research
that went into these is amazing, you know, the restaurants,
the theatrical venues. We walked here. This part of Vegas
is very much a walkable city, right, there's that.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
Oh yeah, And but also like Vegas in general, it's
not walkable at all. And to your point about like
getting caught in these labyrinths, you might look on a
map and be like, this place I want to go
to is like right over there, it's across the street.
But then you go and realize the reality of it
is you'd have to like it's like walking into the sea.
It's as well, you know, it's a.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
Family Circus map, you guys, remember Family start.

Speaker 3 (26:47):
That's right, exactly like a Looney Tunes overview when like
Bugs is running, you know, he's like digging his tunnels
to Albuquerque or whatever. It's crazy. I had a map
it said there was a walkings giving me the dotted line.
I get to a place where it's like there is
a high way here, and I cannot. It's like when
Michael Scott drives his car to the lake. It was
like that, but there was nowhere for me to go,
so I just I'm not gonna eat here. I'm going elsewhere.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
And this goes back to all of this design, these
securitiest roots especially, and these low ceilings. Uh and these
semile lights.

Speaker 3 (27:16):
The carpets, they all come from h.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
A guy named Bill Friedman. Uh he is also he
was what he did change the game of human psychology
and consumer psychology so much that grocery stores started looking
at designing their their layouts like casinos.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
Amazing. Ben Is he one of these guys that just
did this research and then people co opted it to
do these evil things? Or was he mega into this
road star book?

Speaker 2 (27:45):
Right? And and he was a he just gambled all
the Shifa.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah he was. He was definitely a.

Speaker 3 (27:55):
Ricked himself.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
Then No, he went around to all the casinos and
he literally looked at individual sections.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
Yeah, subtit exactly. I'm doing research.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
I got to sit in this particular.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
I'm writing a novel about someone addicted to dr I've.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
Been wearing the same pair of socks for five years
because I'm researching the socks. It's my lucky socks.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
But he came up with some pretty interesting stuff that
then casinos, after upon reading his book and getting the insights,
were like, oh well, let's at least test some of
this out, and they found success.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
Yeah, I guess that was my question. Though he wasn't
necessarily consulting for the casinos, he was just interesting. This
is his field of interest.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
He did start to consult before because the book gets
published in the late nineteen nineties, and it's what's the
book called. It's called Designing Casinos to Dominate the competition.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
To dominate the competition, like in an after colon? Is
it like the subtitle?

Speaker 1 (28:53):
I don't know. I don't think there's a colon there.
I would have liked the spacing of it. But to
rob you, but it sounds very like Laws of Power.

Speaker 3 (29:01):
Oh my god. Yeah, it's very sun Zoo. But like Frivolous, I.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
Thought it was just a picture of Bill with a
cat of nine tails in a casino, and he was
just kind.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
Of yeah, yeah, yeah, he's got a weird mascot.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
Yeah yeah, makes that casino your little.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Lady consensually right. But he doesn't have this chapter on
safe words. The entire book is about what you can
do to keep people in a casino and playing for
absolutely as long as possible. And his metric of success
is just the percentage of visitors who won actually gamble
and then two, not just how long they stay, but

(29:37):
how often they re ter.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
Of course, and this is in the twenties ish or
later than that, in the sixties, right.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
When he's starting to think about this. Yeah, yeah, when
he publishes the book, it's the nineties only crap, that's wild,
because every for like decades I.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
Could see that. So again, like you know, early casinos,
they they had their like kind of ways that were
maybe more rooted in like vaudeville, you know what I mean, Well,
you know, how to keep the butts in the seats,
old school, So they were probably some of these tricks. Again,
we're probably starting to happen, but not to this degree.
This is a sea change, all right.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
Yeah, And let's also be honest, before financial transactions largely
moved to electronic media, is possible, well, yeah, you could
just say, oh, we made a ton off the slots
and take the money you did from your other legitimate
work and sanity say wow, this casino is cleaning it up.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
Isn't it funny that we haven't even talked about the
mob That's really it's the topic of it. It's but
there's an incredible mob museum here that I think we're
all hoping to check out town. But okay, so we're
hedging around this, edging around this, if you will. But
what were We've mentioned a lot of these, but let's
hear it like in listical form, like what were his
prime movers? You know his principles here.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
It was stuff like no clocks, no windows in the game.
You know, outside light, lose track of time. And you
know this mattered more when there were ubiquitous smartphones, right,
and when people were also less likely to have wrist watches.
But even if you have a wrist watch, you're going
it's going to be easy to ignore, yeah, because you

(31:16):
can physically remove it from your site instead of like
a wall clock will always be there.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
Well, in most games in a casino require one hand. Ah,
right there in your dominant hand is probably the one
that doesn't that doesn't have your watch on.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
You notice they have buttons on both sides of all
the machines. Yeah, because you know, in the entire United States,
this is the only city I think that still lets
people smoke inside.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Oh that's because of a tribal loophole.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
That's interesting, is it really?

Speaker 1 (31:44):
But it's so.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
Old school and people are smoking with their left hand,
tapping with their hands and drinking in between. And because
they're just feeding you drinks. As long as you're sitting
at that machine, slamming that button, mashing that button, can
we say.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
That we're at the area. Are we allowed to say that?

Speaker 1 (31:59):
Sure?

Speaker 2 (32:00):
It seems like such a bougie casino hotel to me
when we first walked in and there was one person
smoking a cigarette immediately upon walking.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
Back and slapped it out of her mouth.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
Well, but again, one of the principles is have gambling
equipment immediately when you watch in the casino, right, principal number.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
Two immediately, no empty lobbies exactly.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
And my lady is just just hitting that dart and
then and like I just went, wait.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
Lady, you can't do that here. They have gambling machines.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
When you walk out of the plane. I don't think
the lady's smoking the airport.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
I didn't at least notice any of that. But no,
it's I think it depends on how much you win
anything goes.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
They want you to be as comfortable. These seats are cushy,
they feel good to sit in. All of these principles
that you're mentioning still hold true today and they've just
kind of, you know, improved them. And for example, you
mentioned the wristwatch and stuff in the no light. But
also if you guys notice we have a hard time
reaching each other when we're in and we.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
Get separated, I guess the signal.

Speaker 3 (33:01):
The signal is bad, and it's because of all this
glass and concrete and steel everywhere. I don't know if
it's by design.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
It feels like it now and everything's by design, also,
like the Labyriantine design. Even if we're on a even
if we're in a situation where we know where one
of us is saying, hey, I'm by the restroom, and
then another person is saying, hey, I just got off
the elevator.

Speaker 3 (33:26):
Yeah, which one?

Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (33:28):
Right, you have to navigate again. The correct word is labyrintine.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
We're just to be in the moment, guys. Ben just
got a salute from an ar carrying law enforcement officer
and it weird me out a little bit.

Speaker 3 (33:42):
You're good, sinister, or thank you for your podcast service.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
Just hanging out.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
That's nice, that's nice.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
It's good.

Speaker 3 (33:51):
God, he's got our best. But you know, one the
reason I mentioned the cell phone thing only because you
know it's someone and let's say you did have a
horrible gambling problem. You're going to get to really hard
for someone to call you and tell you, hey, please
go where are you?

Speaker 1 (34:07):
It's your birthday?

Speaker 3 (34:08):
Why aren't you coming home? Dad?

Speaker 4 (34:10):
You know?

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Oh my god, we need were talking about on the ATM.
Before you pull money out. It has the whole warning
thing like, hey, if you've got a gambling problem, call
this number. Okay, go ahead and put your thing in
so you can get more money. Oh also you can
take a line of credit out if you want. Go ahead.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
But hey, also, yeah, here's the least interesting flyer in
the city, right next to the eighteen.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
It's in comic sands.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
Immediate serious though, it really does flash up a warning
about gambling. Of course, it allows you to take money out.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
That's the law, and that's like many laws. It is
not I think it's the law.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
It could just be Okay, you're right.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
I think you are correct. It's also not not particularly
helpful for anybody who has struggled with addiction. You know
that a pamphlet is not going to especially if you're
in the grips of a period of usage. It's not
going to change what's happening with you. Also, we're familiar

(35:14):
with a lot of the basic nudgees. You know, we
don't have to go through all the principles of design,
but we should mention the emphasis. The Freedman philosophy, the
game design and philosophy, says you don't need the accoutrement,
you don't need the fun things. You need the low
ce elites to make it feel intimate, and you need
the games, the slots especially to be the main draw.

(35:37):
That's why they are.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
Almost yeah, draw like a moth to it.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
And and they're loud, and they're insistent, and they're always
They're primarily going to be by heavily trafficked areas. You
literally cannot avoid the slots as a person who who
goes to a casino and stays at night.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
What was theo that started out with a yellow brick
road because it was based.

Speaker 3 (36:04):
That was the MGM Grand and the building is still
green ish. I think it's called something else down I
can't remember the original mg in the part GYM or something. No,
it's not even I don't think it's even an MGM property.
I think another hotel did whatever bought it. But yeah,
remember let's think about this like MGM, Metro Goldwen mayor
the film company they got in on the ground floor
of the hotel casino business. So yeah, in the thirties

(36:27):
with that hotel open, I think The Wizard of Oz
was the biggest movie that ever existed. And they had
apparently like a yellow brick road in there. And I
learned all this from Trinity by the way, at the
Museum of Neon, So please if you're in town, check
it out. And as for Trinity, she was an amazing
tour guy. Yeah, and again that branding stuff has been
in the game from the start. But MGM is still

(36:49):
kind of king.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
But the point is of what we've got in here
from basically the principles is that as a tourist, the
yellow brick road is like something astonished, an amazing direction,
but it doesn't matter as much as the gaming equipment
and where it is.

Speaker 3 (37:07):
I see it, I see that.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
That's what That's what Bill's idea was simple, straightforward, very successful.
Get people in, get them playing as soon as possible,
remove indicators of time and when they need to eat, sleep, urinate,
or defecate, kind of punish them for it. Yeah, force
them to walk past every single other opportunity to put

(37:29):
money in a machine or to get drunk or to
get drunk. Weirder decisions when you say it like that.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
No, but I mean, you know, and again, we've talked
about the people with gambling addiction stuff, and I think
we all watched I believe it was a PBS special
about older folks that have gambling problems. Apparently that's a
real epidemic with with older folks, a lot of Boom
Boomer era kind of generation folks because they have disposable
income and they have a lot of time on their hands.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
We're going to keep going till Paul subs is okay.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
Some of the folks that were talking about their problems,
they catched in their four own k's, they catched in
their iras and all of this stuff to the point
of just being completely destitutes.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yeah. And that's and think about that too, because you're
looking at people who in this society are often ignored,
they're isolated, they're relegated right to lonely places. So this
feels like it's bustling. It's happening. There are people around you,
You're getting free stuff, people are paying attention to you.
I think that's the big one. That's what it is.

(38:33):
It's that sense of community. And and I will be honest,
we do know that blue zone indicators show us people
who elderly tend to live longer and have a higher
quality of life if they feel they are part.

Speaker 3 (38:45):
Of a community.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
So the game does change, though, because there's a guy
who comes along and says, Okay, Bill Friedman's philosophy has
taken over Vegas. I'm gonna throw away every rule. He's
a legendary interior designer and native Las Vegas guy, Roger
Thomas in Las Vegas. He's uh, he's he's like you

(39:08):
mentioned Golden Girls earlier. Do you guys remember designing women? Yes,
it's all about designers.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
Yeah. I gotta say I like this guy, even though
he's kind of I don't know, a magician, the psychological
kind of evil, but like his ideas are creative as hell,
and I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
Like, describe the difference between game design, which is Bill
Friedman's philosophy and uh and Thomas's which is playground design?

Speaker 2 (39:39):
Well, it is in my mind the way I view
it is. Friedman established a lot of these standards that
then Las Vegas and other, you know, major hubs of
gambling took up.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
Sure, choose a theme for the outside, but then it's
the same casino over and over.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
You got your color scheme might change a little bit.

Speaker 3 (40:01):
Oh that's funny.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
But then this guy comes along and he goes he
was working I think it was Bilagio, the first one
that he was working on. Yes, at least his first
major project he was working on with Steve. Steve went okay, so.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
That's one of the crazy fountain out front.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
Right, who still runs the town even though he retired
in twenty eighteen. We're talking with an uber driver about this.
You gotta be careful.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
But his concept was to almost flip all of those
design like principles on their heads, not all of them,
but several of them on their heads, specifically to give
the casino patron something different. Really, I think that original concept. Yeah,
let's not make them all cramped, Let's not make everybody

(40:43):
confused about where they're going, and make it amaze. Let's
let people see where entrances and exits are. We're not
going to create an anxiety ridden place the way this
other dude did. We're going to make it open and
make you feel opulent.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
We're going to make you feel like you want to
do this, not that you are pressure.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yes, but wait a minute, But isn't what exists now
and what we've experienced in the Aria kind of a
combination of both of those.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
Things very much? So, Yeah, it is evolution, and that's
because it is a newer school organization, right, And Thomas
did a lot of amazing things he didn't do. He
threw out all the old rules. He threw all the
old rules out the window by starting building places with
you know, windows.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
And or fake windows that appear to be windows, which.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
Is also a good move for any bunker or space shuttle.

Speaker 3 (41:34):
I also haven't been in one, but I've heard that
some of them have the ceilings painted like the outside.
Scott is like a cloudy scene.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Paris, Paris.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
We have to go.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
It's amazing. Yeah, great, and it's freaky.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
So is that more the philosophy of what we're talking
about with this guy again describing, Yeah, it's sort of
a mix.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
So it's like a I don't want to say pure
one because all of.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
Them are all white and wicker.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
There's a lot of that. But but are there rooms
like that? But this stuff is so calculated that each
room is not measured by a qualitative aesthetic appeal on
behalf of the designer Thomas himself. It's measured on a
quantitative return. Yes, day over day, month over month, and
if it doesn't make that return, then it will or

(42:26):
year over your possibility. And if it doesn't make that return,
then that room gets refitted. And he said, look right, yeah, he's.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
Saying with certain games they're monitoring, like if a certain
type of poker or a certain video machine isn't playing,
they put it out to past you.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
But but ben's really the important thing is the room
the sector. Right you imagine how an orange this like
is really not it's only given.

Speaker 5 (42:49):
Us for.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
Yeah only, or they make so much money, even the
ones that you think in like your small local casinos
or regional casinos, they are cleaning up uh millions of
dollars at a fast clipt.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
We were talking with one of our colleagues about the
MGM hack and how if they had to shut that
stuff down for just one day. Yeah, it's like just
millions of dollars down the tube, not to mention just
the lost wages and all of the just the costs
keep it running. But I mean, you see we just
sit at thatch that that table for the little bit
we did, she's just shoving that money into a cash box.

(43:26):
It's like, let's talk about that.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
There is a it is a clear slot plastic thing
that is held by the dealer and a clear plastic receptacle.

Speaker 3 (43:40):
Shut it in there.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
You watch your your fifty or twenty or one hundred
or ten. Just go.

Speaker 3 (43:47):
But guys, it's almost like they're they're sleight of handing
it away because they want you to stop thinking about
that bill quickly.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
That's a good observation. And also I want to say,
in all fairness, dealers get treated terribly by a lot
of people. Uh, And that goes into some of the
Vegas myths. So maybe we take a break for a
word from our sponsors and we'll be right back just
to just to bust some myths here towards the end.

Speaker 3 (44:13):
Love it and we're back recording live here from the
iHeart Podcast studio, powered by both at the House of
music at the iHeartRadio Music Festival, talking about casinos gonna
bust some casino myths. We've we've mentioned some of these
things along the way, but again, let's get right to.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
It, okay, Uh your dealer. Yeah, we're jumping around here
because we're from amazing. Also we're from Atlanta. You guys,
we are weirdly nice to every of course, but it
is but to your point, like they some of them
are treated. I don't think it's weirdly nice. I think
it's normal nice. But we are kind of in a bubble.

(44:54):
We're impressed.

Speaker 3 (44:55):
Also because the skill which they're laying up very it's
like cardistry, you.

Speaker 4 (45:01):
Know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
Like, yeah, but it's okay, but that's part of the psychology, guys.

Speaker 3 (45:07):
Hand.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
Yeah, that person is an employee of the place that
is taking our money. Sure, and that person is being
kind helping us understand. Oh no, actually, you should double
shit down on this one because you're gonna get a
better children. Oh whoops, I got a black jack.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
Well that's why. I mean, it's another it did happen
to me five times.

Speaker 1 (45:28):
It's also it's also it's a common thing you see
in sales where you know, you start getting. One thing
I will say is dealers never use the Royal Wii
where they're talking with you. But sales guys give you
a little to give you that little touch, that little priming,
a little in LP. But the the the anchoring and

(45:50):
stuff aside, the dealer cannot rig the game. No, it's impossible.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
I'd love to just pick your brain about some theories
that we're talking.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
Oh yeah, yeah, okay, let's go.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
Well, just like we just had this thing where I
asked the question like, how is it that it seems
the edge is always with the dealer every time?

Speaker 2 (46:08):
Like or let's say let's say seventy five percent.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
Okay, fair enough, but practically getting twenty or twenty one
at the end. And I'm like, why is that happening?

Speaker 1 (46:17):
And I mean again, I'm getting stuck with the fifteen.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
Exactly every time. And even when I did what I
was supposed to do, I either busted or anyway I
had some bad luck quote unquote. That's its own conversation.
But Matt was like, what if there's some way that
because of the cameras that are looking at everything, that
are seeing the hands.

Speaker 5 (46:35):
And because of the black box that I'm saying it's
feeding it and it's like inserting just the right card
or reordering them, or you're saying this is this would
be found out immediately by gaming.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
Case high illegal, I would know exactly because it's fraud.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
What I'm saying is all you would have to do
is tell the system how many players there are, sure,
so that it can be aware of what of who
it is dealing to.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
You don't think they're they're the smarter people than you
or I that do this for a living and play
that just wouldn't stand for that. And well the ones
that count cards, which again totally out of my right.
That is a way that you can get the edge,
speaking of legal versus illegal, that's not technically illegal, but
it's frowned upon and you will get kicked out, you know.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
That, Ben. The whole thing that we talked about was
in the absence of transparency thrust and when your shuffler
is this black box that is opaque, you cannot see
into it.

Speaker 3 (47:32):
You don't.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
We're not talking about the person, we're talking about mechanism.
Yes that shuffles like that's a black box. Yeah yeah, yeah,
I just said, like we're not. It's not a figure
of speech.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
It's a literal Yeah, it's a mechanical thing that does
the shuffling that the dealer after they've got a little
thing on the side, at least that once it fills
up with a number of cards, that they shove those
cards back in and inside that black box that you
can't see into, there are like six or more or
full decks of cars. Yes, so theoretically, I don't know,

(48:05):
I'm just it seems possible.

Speaker 3 (48:07):
But Volkswagen cheated on emissions for years, and I also
used a black box.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
Well then how come how come mission control is I'll
say it, Paul, it's too late. How come michion control
is knocking out like five six blackjacks?

Speaker 2 (48:21):
It was just it was his thought experiment where we're no,
you're still right. But because I've never played blackjack, and
I went in and I played blackjack with you guys,
and I loved the experience. But I still lost a
couple hundred dollars and I should go play after this.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
I'm going to, but I still know I gotta get
back on top, baby.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
But it's just so crazy psychologically, the feeling that I
can be manipulated in that way.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
Right, and and god forbid, you had something in you
that made you really susceptible to that, like a certain gene.
Maybe that makes you more susceptible to alcoholism or drug addiction.
And again we're not here to soapbox about the evils
necessarily of this stuff, but there are people that are
triggered by that, that dopamine because that rush and they
can't get enough of it.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Well, how did they make me feel so good about it?
Is there something else at play?

Speaker 1 (49:13):
Ah? Yes? Uh, it is definitely not pumping oxygen into
the air.

Speaker 3 (49:18):
Isn't that funny? How that came up like on every
listical video about and I believed it for a second.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
You made the excellent point. We're talking Matt, and we
were talking about this, and Matt said, look, how many
people are smoking?

Speaker 4 (49:33):
Yeah, how how can the oxygen mix be wellable?

Speaker 1 (49:37):
Right?

Speaker 2 (49:38):
Yeah, but they've got incredible ventilation some of the newer casinos,
which is a real thing that a dealer confirmed to us,
is that they the the dealer tables. If you're playing
black Shaft for poker, one of those games, they've got
tiny little holes cut into those tables that shoot air
at the people who are playing at the players, your size, bike,

(50:00):
its fitness, but it's it's more of a health and
safety thing. It's should prevent the dealer from immediately or
directly inhaling the smoke. But if you're a player and
you're getting that, I don't know that in this case,
that wouldn't really hit you. I don't.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
I don't think. I kind of think it would. I
think you're onto something. And you know, I did see
in lieu of the whole oxygen quandary, which we know
is bull crap. They make it.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
Cold in there, and.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
It's supposed to keep you awake. That's right, because a big,
big it's supposed to keep you awake and then also
keep you feeling like you're moving. But it's interesting because
other places like well, depending on your your your incarceration
mileage may vary, but there are there are concerted efforts
in some places to keep things you know what, we'll

(50:52):
keep it in. It's a thing for a different show.
There is a move to keep you awake. And the
grain of truth and the oxygen thing is that pleasant
smells essential. You haven't thought about the smell.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
I forget who it was.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
I think Dennis Reynolds, God, I.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
Freaking love that scene. I think I think it was
Will maybe. And a couple of our other colleagues who
commented because they've been to the Aria before where we're staying,
and they said, the Aria smell is particularly strong this
year because they've been here before.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
What a weird thing to say. I know, how Victoria.

Speaker 6 (51:37):
Particularly certain stores sort of have a smell smell that
Abbie Woods or like faked fresh baked cookies or bread,
or even something legit like the library smell. You know,
but these things can trigger nostalgia, and they can sugar
that comfort and that coziness.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
It's the number one way to encode memory, dude. So
what There was this two thousand and six study that
found there were some smells that increased casino returns by
a cartoonish percentage.

Speaker 3 (52:11):
Well, the top smell, the top smell was you bro,
that's my nickname. They call me the top smell.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
The smell nice. You heard it here first, Maty, two
heads and they'll top smell brown. The paper said that
what could be happening is not necessarily a memory that
people have that triggers gambling, but that the whatever it
is is generalized enough that when people do smell it,
they stop and they linger. And while they're lingering, there's

(52:44):
another opportunity to say, well, I have.

Speaker 3 (52:47):
A dollar that's right.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Well, it also might smell expensive, which makes you feel expensive.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
Ah.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
The identification, especially if you've got a room there right, like, oh, man,
i'm a guest here, I show my card. Look out there.
Just at the elegance that I am inside of as
a guest.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
It's aspirational for sure.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
And then you you sit down and you're gonna begin
playing a game and they notice, Oh you've put a
couple hundred dollars down. They bring you. Oh, sir, would
you like a drink? Oh?

Speaker 1 (53:23):
They're free. Yeah. The massage was new to me. You
guys know how I feel about people touching me. I
do not care for it. So I do not care
for strangers, even granted very attractive, very kind strangers. I'm
coming up and I'm like, you're proposing a nightmare to me,
is what you're saying. Would you I'm a stranger, would

(53:45):
you like me to rub your lumbar region?

Speaker 3 (53:47):
As a man who loves a good massage, it felt
like the wrong time I was losing money. But I mean,
you know, they make the rounds. And then there's these
you know, cocktail servers that will give you free drinks.
If you go to the bar and buy one, they'll
charge you twenty five. But if you just sit there,
they clock you and they bring it to you and
they'll keep feeding these ties as long as you're sitting down.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
Put money in, right, and then that means there's a
safe way to calculate it too, because imagine you are
just at a regular bar. Then you know, calculate the
number of drinks you would have over a series of hours,
and then if you're drinking and playing responsibly, then you're
basically just paying a bar tab.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Well yeah, okay, so let's let's do that calculation. What
if a bar makes a sixty profit on mark single
drinks you buy?

Speaker 5 (54:36):
Right?

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Okay, if you buy, does somebody have a calculator? But
if you bought like the concept would be, if you
bought three drinks and the house comped you a fourth,
how much they lose? For are they gaining like crazy?
I think they're still gaining like that.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
They are. Every calculation they're making is you know, to
point back to the ATM machine. The house is already winning.
And the thing about the payouts they have to do
on these machines. They know what that is. They're never
going to do it a penny over. So they've got
this big picture calculation down to the booze bill, you know,
and they know what it is, and it's it's a
minimal investments and it's not nothing.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Are not the top shelf, No.

Speaker 3 (55:20):
Of course not. I don't think you can ask for
a great goose, you know. I think you just say
vodka kran You.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
Also always tip of course, guys have terrible news.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
Oh no, what happened?

Speaker 2 (55:31):
I just daydreamed about playing a machine so much.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
I really want to get done with this episode so
we can go jam on.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
I want to do a hand.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
But again, listen, we're being flippant about this. We are
being honest, I know you know what I mean, though,
is right, But we're not saying like you should.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
Do this or whatever.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
Obvious we never do that about anything. But I'm saying
like it's been worth the price of it of admission
for me because it is fun and even though it's
like kind of stupid and frivolous and I'm a little
mad at myself, not that.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
Much, right, It's also it's it's also experiential. And there's
the aspect. There's the other aspect here, which is that objectively, yes,
casinos are a conspiracy. They are not necessarily an evil conspiracy,
you know. But people do win people, Yeah, especially if

(56:27):
they own casinos. They win constantly.

Speaker 3 (56:31):
Yeah, I did see.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
I watched the lady win four thousand dollars today.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
I saw a lady win in twenty six hundred at
a slot machine yesterday.

Speaker 3 (56:39):
Do you think though, And again, this depends on the
person that they just jammed that stuff right back in
and then walked away with nothing.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
But they put in before they got there. We don't know, right,
So we are going to end on one thing. We're
I think we're getting a nod from our producers here
because we are live and we do have to go
see little Wayne in a second. That is a true story. Oh,
that's true. It's very true. We are going to end
on one last thing. We told you some of the griffs,

(57:08):
some of the insidious psychological design and calculations. We told
you some of the myths psych about one state too. Yeah,
history as well. One of the mysteries is what happens
when people die at casinos? Oh, this is this is
a big conspiracy. I think this is our big Disney.

Speaker 3 (57:28):
Is like a Disney. I was about to ask. They
certainly don't report it. They don't like to talk.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
It's now the headlines at all. Do in Casino dot
org that has a lot of interesting research on this.
They pulled some twenty and twenty two data from the
Southern Nevada or Nevada Health District and this is publicly
or non exclusive they call it information, and it showed
that in last year, as we record, one nine and

(57:56):
twenty eight tourists died in Las Vegas, which is down.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
From the previously, but at least we know the vast
majority of those are health related complications, which makes sense.

Speaker 3 (58:08):
I mean sure, you literally do see old folks chain
smoking cigarettes with oxygen tanks. I mean it's a thing.
So I mean and people again, there's a lot of
old folks that gambling thingsas people could just to their time,
you know, it's granny's time and they're.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
In stressful financial situation.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
Sometimes that's correct.

Speaker 1 (58:26):
Seventy seven percent of people die from what you're saying
about natural causes, but that could be things like heart attacks, right, yeah,
very easily.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
And then what was it.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
Of the one nine and twenty eight people who died,
three hundred and forty four were accidents, fifty one were.

Speaker 4 (58:44):
Suicides, not fifty one percent. Fifty one individual that's a
lot that's terrified.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
Yeah, and twenty six were murders. There were two people
whose causes of death were indetermined undetermined.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, reinder, this is tourists, so not anybody
living in Las Vegas, I know.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
I mean, there's certainly have to be plenty of locals
with serious gambling.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
Yeah and yeah, of course, right, like there are a
lot of people who live by the shore of Florida,
California who get skin cancer. But so the the thing
is that it appears there is, to your point, a
huge history of keeping this out of the headline. Thankfully,
law enforcement does investigate. Of course, the families do have

(59:34):
to be notified unless it's, you know, a lake made vacation.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
And I swear to God, I just saw as Zach
califan Akis. It wasn't him. It looked like him from
the hangover.

Speaker 1 (59:43):
It might be he's always trying to hang But the
idea is that this stuff just doesn't make it into
the media because Vegas wants us thinking about the possibility
of untold Riches, an amusement park where I can't just
ride the roller coasters. I might walk away owning the park.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
You know, you mentioned Disney, and just just to add
a tiny detail, there was a period when Disney was
just absolutely blowing up in terms of their theme park business,
and Vegas wanted in on that. So that's why you
have a lot of casinos like Treasure Island, Excalibur, you know,
all of these kind of very circus circus even it's
very much like a midway for kids and ski ball

(01:00:21):
and stuff. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Yeah, And at this point, folks, we have we've gone
over our time in the pooth. But luckily I have
it on good authority that the folks who are recording
a live show after us are kind of cool.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Oh who's it?

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
Just show call ridiculous History. Hopefully they'll let us slide
a little bit on our on our schedule as er. Yeah,
they're kind of mits.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
I heard there might be a certain quizt in the
general vicinities.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
Then I'm leaving. I'm hanging out with Wayne and Zach.

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
This is a little about what about little Dirk.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
He's around little Little Poo Bear aka Wayne Maddie, two Hands.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
And top Smell. I suggest we call it a day
a night this evening as we leave to noctivigate folks.
Remember there's a lot we didn't get to here, old
mob stories, the Lake meat Bodies, the strangest, darkest bets
ever made. Perhaps that's an episode in the future. We
have to return to Vegas soon, one way or another.
But in the meantime, we hope you enjoyed this episode.

(01:01:27):
It is true that when it comes to just how
tightly controlled this fantasy is, that's the stuff casinos don't want.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
You to know. You just triggered the sh out of me.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
I did that a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Today. I went on a hike to a place called
the Red Rock Canyon.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Beautiful, Yeah, beautiful, Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
I think because of my experience with cgied movies with
physical representations that Disney will create e like at their
theme parks of like an alien planet or places like that,
when I was there at that real place with actual

(01:02:11):
rocks and stones and mountains, I felt like I was
on a set and I was not in reality, rather
than when I was in reality and looking at a set,
feeling like the opposite. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
Wait, do you see the hoover dam bro?

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
Thank you?

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Oh no, I think you're absolutely right.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
I know what you mean.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
I feel like our perceptions have been so warped and
altered by the representations of real things like false real things.

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
Yeah, there's a line in Clockwork Orange he says something.
Sometimes the real world doesn't ever look as real as
when you vidiot on a screen.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
That's so.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
But we were just inside watching TLC perform right, watching
te Baws and Chili on stage. Amazing. When I pulled
up my phone and zoomed it in and looked at
the big screens, it felt more real than looking at
the human being who.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
Were their dancing.

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
Yes, very well, by the way, but still like tvOS Chili.
If you if you hear this, are you having a
mind explosion?

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Man? Look, I didn't do mushrooms.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Okay, sure, number one number one thing people say when
they don't do mushrooms. You know what fos or when
they are doing mushrooms.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
Excuse me?

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
Okay, I'm gonna be clear, guys. A lot of stuff
here is legal in Vegas. I suggest we get to it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
What I'm saying is you can apply that to the casinos,
and you can apply that to hotels. You can apply
to if you're out on the sea on a cruise,
or if you're living in a place that has five
restaurants on the first floor and you and everybody else
lives on the second and fifth floors.

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
Or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
I'm just I think maybe our perception has been skewed
so much by the digital world that we inhabit most
still the time that we can't even see what's really around.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
Us and say, this is the one Omega Omega.

Speaker 3 (01:04:09):
Market.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Dude, I'm not invisible.

Speaker 3 (01:04:11):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
So we are going to call it a night. We
are venturing forth into the evening, folks, we will, I believe,
return to this stuff, the stuff casinos don't want you
to know, maybe in a future episode of Ridiculous History
or stuff they don't want you to know. In the meantime,
please check out our live Ridiculous History show coming to you,

(01:04:33):
also being recorded at the House of Music here at
the iHeartRadio Festival. Most importantly, what do you think if
you can't find us in the casino losing crazy money
on Blackjackie, you could still find us online?

Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
Right, I'll be the one getting the neck massage and crying.
You can hit us up on the internet or we
are Conspiracy Stuff on x nay, Twitter, Facebook, and the
other one on YouTube. The video one. You can find
this at Conspiracy Stuff Show on Instagram and TikTok.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
Hey do you like to use your phone to make
phone calls? Well, our number is one eight three three
S T D W y t K. When you call in,
you've got three minutes. Please give yourself a cool nickname,
not your government name. Yeah, like like like the Big
Smell maybe Smell Top Smell, Top Smell and or Greg

(01:05:22):
mcconna whatever Ben said earlier. You'll have to go back
and hear it. Such a good name. I just like
Greg Greg Greg.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Wow, Greg has a whole persona Greg.

Speaker 3 (01:05:36):
What are you saying?

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
Greg?

Speaker 3 (01:05:37):
I think I think you're having a break with reality.

Speaker 5 (01:05:40):
I'm not.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
I love it. I was thinking, what is that show
on HBO about with Greg his cousin Greg cousin Greg
cousin Greg.

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
Yeah, that's right, that was good. No, that guy's very
British and he does a very good patrician New Yorker.
I was supposed to be from Canada. Now it's failed.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
I failed.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
If someone.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
By the way, tell us that we can use your
name and voice on the air on one of our
listener mail episodes. If you don't want to do any
of that stuff of it, you've got something to tell us,
why not instead send us a good old fashioned email.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.