November 20, 2024 • 49 mins
Most people in the global west aren't too familiar with Myanmar. Formerly known as Burma, the Southeast Asian country has a deep history as a cultural and geographical crossroads -- and this has become both a gift and a curse. In the first part of this special two-part episode, Ben and Matt explore the history of Myanmar, its descent into chaos, and how multiple forces conspired to make it a modern hotbed of instability, crime, and corruption.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
Our colleague Nol is on an adventure but will be
returning shortly.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer, Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you
are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff
they don't want you to know. There is a civil
war happening right now as we record.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
This evening in the United.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
States, well not yet as we record, but depending on
when you listen to this episode or a possible series
of episodes, your mileage may vary. There's a fascinating case,
in a heartbreaking case of civil war that's been going
on since twenty twenty or so out in Me and.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Mar oh yes, formerly Burma if you even if you
check it out on Google Maps, it says me and
Mar and then like Burma. Also. Yeah. We learned about
this a little while back. I think it was sometime
in August of this year. We learned about it from
a listener who called themselves surf Rider, and we still
(01:36):
are unsure if it's writ er.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Or rider, but either way, surf writer, thank you again.
We said we would follow up with an episode on
this and Matt, could you tell us a little bit
more about what surfrider or writer was talking about.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Surf Wright was specifically talking about criminal organizations that were
functioning on the border of Me and Mar, like basically
all the way all around the border of Me and Mar,
but specifically around one river. I think you say moa
river MOEI And it's basically apartment complexes, eat love, prey,
(02:16):
places where it's self contained. Basically, if you live in
one of these places, you just stay there. And out
of these places, there's a lot of organized crime and
human trafficking where people are basically shipped in to function
there as cogs in a big old I guess scam.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Chain scam, slave farms. Yeah, we've explored. You know, mean
Mar is familiar to a lot of people aka Burma,
but there's a lot more that escapes the attention of
the West. It's a story of crime, conspiracy, and chaos
all spiraling out of control along the border of Myanmar
(02:57):
and much of the rest of the world seems to
will ignore the growing chaos. The world collectively looked at
the problem just like someone who sees a vagrant asking
for change at a traffic light. They made a passing
glance at me, Ammar, and they said, I have other
stuff to do. Well, guess what, folks, we don't. That's
(03:18):
our cold open.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Our Friday is fully open. Here we go.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Here are the facts. Okay, so it's interesting. We've been,
arguably Matt going through kind of a phase in exploring
mysteries and conspiracies in this region of the world, in
Southeast Asia. Wasn't too long ago that we talked about
the plane of jars, and thank you to our conspiracy
realist who wrote in to correct us and say, actually,
(03:54):
these don't look like cauldrons or jars, these look like crocs.
See ours? Really?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, I don't know, I saw some pictures.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
You wrote a fantastic matter of fact, let's pull up
the name. You wrote such a fantastic letter to us.
Held off on answering it because.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
We are saying crock pots like the thing my mom
used to make pot roast in Yes, okay, yeah, well,
what are we saying that just crocs. I don't know.
Is that a brand name.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I'm unsure, like that time we got in trouble for
saying Frisbee instead of I just know.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Do you plug them in? They're electric and they make
potatoes real nice and good.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
I love it. I love I have an emotional you have,
you know how I like? I have three emotions a
year or something. One of those is affection for my crockpot. Yeah,
which is sorry, Grandma.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Just cook a little and slow baby.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
That is caddyewampus. By the way, what is caddy wanting?
Caddywampus is the wrote oh about the difference between cauldrons, jars,
and crocs, to which we say caddy. That's a croc.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, that's a krak of caddywamp as vases.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yes, there we go, they're vases. So the plane of
jars and Laos the mystery has not been solved. Myanmar, though.
If you've looked at the map from our previous exploration
of Laos, you'll see that Myanmar parentheses Burma is just
to the west of Laos.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, and it borders a ton of countries. The border
that it shares with Laos is fairly small compared to
like Thailand, which is right south.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
The whole peninsula base right split in half exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
But then you've also got China, what Bangladesh? And aren't
there is there more? Is it just mostly India? India too?
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Gosh?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So they are they? Well, that's why, that's why this
episode is so complicated and interesting and potentially impactful, because
that the land that makes up me and mar potentially
has influence on so many other countries.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
One hundred percent And well said. You know, some conspiracy
realist of a certain age may recall when this country
changed its name, because it didn't change its name to
Myanmar until nineteen eighty nine. Wow. Yeah, most famously when
Marvel Comics published a new edition of their encyclopedia.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Oh wow, I remember it.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
That's the other thing that happened. Those are the two
I did.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
But yeah, I remember when I was six years old
and looked at at the old TV and they said
Burma is now Myanmar, and I was like, I'll remember
this for the rest of my life.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
And they might be giants later really missed the ball
on that one, didn't They too much focus on Turkey?
But okay, names aside, people have been living in this
area since far before we started calling it what we
call it today. The first human settlers appeared on this
central plaine because there are plains and there are hills,
(07:10):
and the people are often called like the plains people
or the hill people. The first humans were there eleven
thousand years ago. And I love what you brought up there,
Matt about it's the luck of the draw in the
geography here. It's been a nexus point for all kinds
of exchanges. I mean, it's sandwiched in between these two
(07:30):
homes to ancient civilizations India and China. They're always trying
to spend, like send stuff to each other, yes, sometimes
send wars to each.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Other sometimes and expand their borders, but often they're attempting
to trade because in order to fight wars and other
parts of the world, you have to have a significant
amount of money coming in, usually via trade. Yeah, I
want to just quickly talk about that eleven thousand years number, because,
like we've talked about on the show numerous times, that
(07:59):
is the best evidence we have right now of human
beings living in that area, right so, and we are
discovering year over year that human beings have been around
doing stuff for way longer than we even think or expected.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
It changes every year, just like the nomination for world's
oldest person, that's the world record with the most turnover.
I think that's a really good point, Matt, because when
we say whenever we say evidence indicates humans, we're in
so and so or doing so and so by x
amount of time, it means that's when we found physical evidence. Yes,
(08:35):
and the world is hungry, especially this part of the world.
It eats the creations of man, including human remains so hungry,
so so famished. Tune into our later episode, by the way,
on the future of poop. Just always be closing, always
be closing, you know it is.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
It's the type of side hustle I never expected. But
it is like a gift once you realize that you
can sell your own poop if you're diligent enough. Yes,
or Dylan Genta enough. Oh gosh, he could sell his
poop right now, like today, I will.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, I think we're going to leave this in. I
would I'm not saying one hundred percent sold, but I
would love to read some literature and hear the pitch.
Oh yeah yeah. And also just a quick shout out
to Dylan. We could leave this part at Dylan is
the guy who taught me that you can eat cheetos
with chopsticks. What to keep your fingers clean.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
That seems like a lot of work but also kind
of fun.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
So everybody's got a weird side hustle. Anyway, it's our segue,
and we're going to talk about some dangerous side hustles
for now. What you need to know is, once upon
a time, this place that we call mean Mar today,
it had a massive reputation for surrounding countries. Records from
China show that from the first century BCE to the
(10:03):
ninth century Common era there was something called the Pew
Government Pyu and we're not native speakers, so partner pronunciation.
This government. They didn't have prisons, they didn't have slaves,
they had quote no fetters or chains. And for the
rare criminals who got in trouble with this benevolent government,
(10:25):
the only punishment was quote a few strokes of a whip,
which surely still hurt.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Like yeah, dickens, but well, I mean strokes of a whip
that would that's like tearing flesh right for sure, and
it's way in my mind, it's way worse than maybe
some of at least the rumors and then actual policies
in Singapore of the caning that we heard about a
long time ago.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Yeah, it's a different thing too. But caning's very damaging.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yes, not good, but not the same as the velocity
that a whip attains when it.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Not the same laceration potential.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
That's a good way to put it.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's true. And also it depends
where you hit people. Like the old maritime punishment or
torture and was also used on enslaved people is bastinado when.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
They would put you in like a box of scorpions. No, no, no, no, no, no,
that's just hook.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Okay, I think that's just hook. But it is a
great idea, very fear factor. No, that's where they beat
the bottom of the feet. Oh yeah, because it hurts
a lot and it prevents you from it lowers your mobility. Yeah,
it's evilly well thought out. We're going to see some
of that anyway. We need to know this. Despite mean
(11:37):
Mar's modern day reputation, earned or unearned, it had a
much longer reputation in the past, being a very peaceful place.
It was pretty extraordinary both back then and in the
modern day. But it's no longer the case because Matt,
like we said, with an exus point where you can
be a facilitator of cultural exchange, you also have a
(12:00):
lot of people hungry for your real estate.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Oh for sure. And you essentially cross a river and
then you're in me and Mar from any you know,
any direction, unless you're coming in from the Bay of Bengal. Yeah,
you're just you're strolling through the place. And empires surely did.
Some of them just came through, you know, like rolled
through and caused some damage and some chaos. Others stuck around,
(12:24):
like I believe it was it was Japan that stuck
around for quite a while and officially occupied the place.
But you also had companies that were de facto countries,
like the British what was it, the British East India Company. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
not great. Who else is in there? Oh, mongol the
Mongolian invasions that occurred, and not just one. There's a
(12:48):
whole bunch of conflict that's been going on there for
a long time. It's another one of those places where
I've never had Me and Mar specific cuisine or like Burmese,
but I imagine it's an They're one of those places
in the world where there's so many different influences from
all of the strife, but also people who get displaced
there and then stay there. I would love to see whatever.
(13:10):
Whatever the cuisine, I don't know what you would call it,
but whatever the Me and Mark cuisine is, I want
to try.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
They usually call it Burmese cuisine. Yeah, I've I don't.
Our best bet for you and Dylan and myself would
be to go to Beauford Highway and just roll the dice,
which I love doing.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Just ask around, just ask around.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Be cool. But I have tried it in other parts
of the world and you nailed it because it's a
It's almost like Peruvian cuisine in that there are so
many other influences that they're great curries. I know you
love a curry.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah so.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
And I also know that every time we talk about
a far flung country, we have to talk about the food.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah. Sorry, I didn't mean it's.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Important, man. And also I think maybe both of us
skipped breakfast. I know, but we know for sure that
the British East India Company famously asks, well, just walk
out the street for that one. But we also know
that to your point, mat after amid Japanese occupation, the
(14:16):
country we now call Mianmar declared its independence in nineteen
forty seven with the Burma Independence Act of nineteen forty seven.
Not the most creative name, but an awesome idea. We're
all about independence. Problem is when a country moves out
of occupation or colonialism and becomes independent, it is also
(14:39):
at one of the most vulnerable periods in its history.
The time after immediate independence is very, very dicey.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Oh, I mean, well, it's it's such a difficult thing
to do. You're trying to establish what the government looks
like and how it functions right in this independent nation.
You also need a strong enough military to defend that
nation and or gain independence from whoever you know is
occupying your nation that you want to build. But then
you've got to be really careful with that military, make
(15:14):
sure it's not too powerful and it doesn't want to
just take the reins and decide what happens or doesn't
happen in your new country.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Exactly. Yeah, that is the Oh, you nailed it. That
is one of the trickiest parts, especially of any kind
of representative democracy, any kind of you know, even constitutional monarchy,
where there is some kind of voice for the people,
it has to exist in conjunction with the military. And
(15:43):
that's why so many constitutions separate what the military can
and cannot do with civilians. And that's also why militaries
have such a reputation for being compromised, especially in post
colonial countries. Cough Wagner, cough cough Africa, cough cough everywhere.
(16:05):
Right now side gigs, we were talking about you know
what I mean, some people sell poop, other people sell nations.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Hi, I specialize in private special operations, I mean party,
I mean gigs.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
I'm a tourist, I'm a consultant. I would love to
have a conversation with the colonel.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, it's cool, it's cool. We're just totally I'm just
gonna go on the roof or in the basement with
this suitcase. Yeah, and everything's cool. But it really is
a it's a it's a messed up thing that everybody
has to do because in the end, it's ideas, and
when you're forming a new government, especially you know, in
revolt of some existing thing, you got to make sure
(16:52):
everybody's on the same page. And how in the heck,
do you get everybody on the same page. It's not possible.
Some people are going to think differently than whoever the
founders are right, and if they've got weapons and know how,
then you could be in trouble.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
And often the so called agents of revolution just want
to have the same terrible operation, the same horrific machine,
but they want to be the one at the lever
which makes it now good.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah, there sure is. There are a lot of goods
going through this specific port, on this specific border. It
should sure would be nice if I was the one,
you know, taking the bribes every time the illegal goods
went across.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Yeah, that's what people in the world of nation states.
That's often what people mean when they say they solved
a problem. They mean now they are profiting from the
earlier problem, because that's what they were solving for anyway.
So what we're saying is it makes sense. Unfortunately that,
like so many other countries in the region, modern day
(17:58):
Meanmar has been best with its own struggles inner turmoil,
foreign intervention continues, government upheavals violence, it's continuing unrest and
conflict to this day. And that's because just less than
two decades after independence, it's nineteen sixty seven and the
(18:20):
military does a coup d'ta. Yeah, they just come in.
Perhaps it was their idea, but maybe maybe.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
But again, there's so much potential influence. Yeah, yeah, there's
so much potential influence. And we do have to say
mentioned it earlier, specifically influenced from India and China, because
they are the two most populous countries in the world
and they're also two of the most powerful. In India
(18:59):
is definitely, I mean, it's up there, don't I don't
know if you can say the number four most powerful
or whatever. But India has a lot of strength, a
lot of military mind might in a lot of technology.
China has the same. So it you can imagine even
back in sixty seven, that influence there.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Is possible, incredibly strong. And let's not forget that there
is still at that point, there are still post colonial
forces from the game that are involved. There's still you know,
like shout out to BRIDGERD. Kipling's Kim, you know, the
Brits are still there in some capacity, and of course
sixty seven you've got French Indo, China, you've got the
(19:43):
US definitely not being there.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, the US was not a part of any of that.
Uh uh no, no, nor was the Soviet Union in
any way.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Shame on you for these unfounded allegations. But yeah, for
one reason or another, this military Coupjata. We're not oversimple.
We don't want to oversimplify a lot led to it.
We do clearly suspect for an intervention of some sort,
the military dictatorship ends up ruling more or less the
(20:15):
same up to now, up to twenty twenty four, is
we record this spoiler, they're super duper weird. I'm just
an observation. They're very into astrology. Oh yeah, yeah to
Burmese astrology. It's the reason they moved the capitol.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
That's amazing on it. I have not encountered that in
any of the research today. I'm gonna look into that
after this, and we all should, because that is fascinating.
That's a whole episode I want to know.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Yeah, but we should totally do that, and before we
uh what do you call it? Before we seem as
though we are casting aspersion here, Let's also keep in
mind that former US presidents have had court astrologers, Oh yeah,
which is basically a magician.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Gosh, that's exciting.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
At that point, and we're not saying there's anything wrong
with astrology, western or other derivations.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah. You know, if I ever become president, I'm gonna
have like a court Duncan Trussell who's just there to
be like, we got a finger moouth of this man.
And I'll be like, oh, Duncan, you're.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Right, I'm gonna just have a straight up court magician.
Oh okay, no, wait, We'll have a court magician like
a Copperfield is this your card kind of guy? And
then we'll have a court sorcerer and it'll have to
be the weirdest person we could find.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I'm gonna get. I'm gonna get officially a new position
in the West Wing called the West Wing Warlock. And
I love it. And he he just haunts the place.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Okay, yes, yeah, I love it. I love it. Wesley
West Wing Warlock. Let's hope his name's Wesley.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
We just call him w.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Didn't some guy already get that nick? I think so, well,
we'll cast him then if he's already got the nickname, he's.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Just he's just in this Oh, he's in his sanctum
in the West Wing, just painting.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Just painting weirdly intimate pictures of himself. Oh I love
it in the top. That's that's the real magic. It's
the paintings we made along the way.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Oh wow, I don't know how we got here, and
it's my fault.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
And here you know, we're gonna magic it back because
look as crazy and I kind of derail this on that,
as crazy as it sounds. Yes, the leadership of Myanmar
is what we call a military junta. There aren't really elections.
Every time there is an election and the people have
spoken or you know, the upper middle class or whatever
(22:42):
is spoken, then boom, boom boom, there's another coup, a
cuckoo coup, right, and this happens again and again. They
crush opposition. In the case of the twenty twenty general election,
it didn't go their way. They pointed Anjong Sansuki, who
(23:03):
is a world famous activist, and when the election didn't
go their way, the military, known as the Tatma dal H,
staged another coup. And part of the turmoil we're in now,
this civil war that begins in the wake of this
other coup, is because of the point we raised earlier.
(23:23):
There's a lot of ethnic diversity. This is not this
is not near as homogeneous a place as say Norway
or Japan.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
No, No, it's weird to talk about this, but fifty
six percent are Burmese, which is like, I was born here,
I grew up here, I know everything here, I speak
the language I am a I am.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Burmese, similarly like Han Chinese exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
But then the rest, I mean, the rest is just
split up between all of these different cultures that have
gone through the area.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
The Karen, the San.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
The Karen's a big deal.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
The Karen is a huge deal.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
And it's we're not being silly about that.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
We're being kind of silly.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
But that's a real that's a real thing.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
It is a real thing.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
A bunch of the issues that have been happening recently
are about the Karen.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Yes, one hundred percent. There's also a conflict between other groups,
the Shan, the Laou, and the Karen. There are multiple
moves for secession, for autonomy, multiple contradictory religious or ideological goals.
It's it's a huge stew right just even unto the language.
(24:36):
The official language is Burmese, but there are tons of
indigenous languages and they're mutually unintelligible. In some cases. Diversity
is always a huge benefit to a country over time,
but mismanaged internal conflicts in diversity can lead to chaos,
which is why Meammar has been in that civil war.
(24:58):
Even the civil war is messy. All right, you got
the military on one.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Side, Okay, that's easy.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
They're not the official government, but they do run everything.
And then you've got the National Unity Government. Wait a second,
nug Yes, they're the government in exile.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Okay, so they don't.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Run the thing. But when the UN has their little parties,
these are the folks who show up.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
That's so funny.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
I'm sorry I should say Sessions. I don't think the
UN is hitting people up on the group chat.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah, got a party, be there promptly at eight point fifteen.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Hit them with an LMAO to take the sting off, right, Yeah,
I'm learning how to text.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
But that is interesting though, that there's a there's an
official recognized government that runs the show as far as
the rest of the world is concerned. But then in
all actuality, it's essentially the military slash official other official government,
not the Unity government, the other one.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Yeah, it's kind of like in Somalia. Right, because warlords
run huge regions of the area, but there is a
government in exile, largely in exile that this is an
unfortunate thing that happens. But those aren't the only two
sides of the civil war. There is also a monopoly
of rebel groups right, often with indigenous roots to a
(26:21):
particular ethnicity or people's And.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
That's like the Karen group we're talking about, exactly exactly.
Sorry you're still going up, please continue. I was just
interjecting so that in the way my mind made that connection,
I wanted other people to make that.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Yes, the Karen. Tell us a little bit about the
Karen while we're here.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Uh oh, sorry is it in here? Because I don't
know if I could tell fully about it. I read
about it though.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
We know it's spelled like the name Karen. Has nothing
to do with the memes except in our heads and
in our hearts.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
That is correct. Here we go. This is I'm gonna
re from a story here from Irrawadi from February twenty eighth,
twenty twenty three, so a while ago. Yeah, and this
goes back to the original stuff we were looking at
when we went to b and mar In that listener
mail episode. But this was about Karen National Union or
(27:17):
the kN U, and specifically it was about their involvement
in a quote Chinese project in Mirawadi. This is one
particular city that where it's like a border city that
we've talked about there there connects to Thailand and it's
all about that place KK Park, which was one of
(27:39):
those suburban hubs where all that crime was happening. Sure,
but I don't know that I can fully tell you
about this Karen National Union or the militaries that they control.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Yeah, and that that can be tough because the situation
is somewhat fluid to be quite honest. But the Karen
are what are called Taibeto Burmo people or Burman people,
so have roots in Burma in Tibet and they're they're
an ethno linguistic group who are about they're pretty small,
they're about six point six y nine nice percent of
(28:14):
the population. A lot of people from this group have
moved into Thailand, got it through the notoriously porous Thai
Burmese or memr border anyway. So there's this crazy complicated
civil war. It's absolutely terrible for the civilians. We've got
one official government that is in exile. We've got a
(28:36):
military junta, We've got a ton of other folks in between,
secessionist groups, GETTIA fighters, and then of course I'm just
pretty heinous, straight up criminals. Oh yeah, who are just
there the way that vultures go to a charnel pit.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yes, and from various countries that are just illegally in
the country and just do their thing because for some
reason they feel like they can get away with it,
and perhaps they can get away with it, maybe a
little more easily than they could if they were on
their home turf.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Yeah. As of March twenty twenty three, the United Nations
estimated that post February twenty twenty one COUPS, seventeen point
six million people in Mianmar required humanitarian assistance, one point
six million were internally displaced, run out of their homes
(29:31):
and their towns, and over fifty five thousand civilian buildings
had been destroyed. Now, how many refugees are there and
other adjacent countries, we simply do not know.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
You know, there was a bit of a program within
the US to bring in ME and R refugees, which is,
at least from what I'm reading, is looking to be
shut down by the current administration or the incoming administration,
So it'll be interesting to see what happens there.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
And if you want to visit Meanmar, bad news. All
travelers are warned to stay away, even if you are
a refugee or if you've relocated and you're part of
the diaspora, your nation state is probably going to warn
you not to go there, especially the major cities, the
(30:25):
new capital. The clashes between the government and exile and
the hunta and all these other opportunistic forces mean that
multiple groups consider themselves the rule of law in the country,
the state power and the only real operative definition of
state is the monopoly over violence, So multiple actors feel
(30:47):
they have a monopoly over violence. You step out of
line one time and one in the wrong person's opinion,
you are in jail and no one's going to help you.
Nowhere is the chaos more visible than along those borders Bangladesh,
in China, allows Thailand. It seems to be trouble at
every single international line. So what is happening and why?
Speaker 2 (31:09):
We'll get into it right after a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Here's where it gets crazy, all right, before we dive
into even deeper conspiracies here, Matt, I propose we take
a look at the border country by country.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Ooh, let's do this.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Yeah, yeah, it's a spoiler. It's not a super pleasant story, folks.
If we start with Bangladesh, which is also the title
of a great song by our friend Himes and your
old Drug. But if you start with Bangladesh, let's go
to the Diplomat. They have a great article about this
where they point out that Bangladesh is having problems with
(31:59):
the border guard police on the Meanmar side illegally crossing
the border and getting in fights with the border guards
from Bangladesh the Myanmar forces. Because there's no single authority
who decides what is or isn't legal, they're very difficult
to negotiate with. So Bangladesh is facing continual incursions, mortar attacks,
(32:24):
gunships are coming in, and then they go back to
who they thought was the authority, Meanmar, and then they
just keep passing the buck. Oh that's a different warlord.
Oh you're looking for the you know, the Karens or whatever.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Yeah, it's such a weird situation just to have a
hole like in this case, like one hundred people coming
across a border from ME and MAR saying hey, it's
not good over there. Help and then they're like, uh,
y'all can't really trust you here. But then also there's
mortars coming from the ME and R side, right, you're
(32:59):
just like.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Well, also, yet we have to keep in mind those
the border guards from Myanmar who are incurring into Bangladeshi territory.
They're often chasing and attempting to kill ethnic minorities from Myanmar,
the Rohinga in particular.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Who are perhaps escaping situations on that side.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Of the world straight up refugees. These are not tourists,
These are not merks, These are not consultants. These are
innocent people who are running for their lives. Quite literally.
The government of Myanmar or the ruling junta, has expelled
the ethnic Rohinga into Bangladeshi territory actively since nineteen seventy eight,
and just since August of twenty seventeen, there have been
(33:44):
more than one point three million Rohinga refugees stuck in Bangladesh.
They have nowhere to go. It's not just that they
feel unsafe back home. It's that even when they try
their home, government won't let them men yeah, and will
attack them.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yeah, and Bangladesh itself as a country has had so
many problems over the last twenty years that I've been
paying attention at least. And I've known several people from
that country who you know, openly talk about the issues
of the country they love and wish they could go back,
even to Bangladesh, but they just can't. It's just so,
(34:23):
it just makes me really sad, especially for all these
people who are displaced, and it is God, it makes
me thankful and hopeful for countries that do have robust
programs to bring in refugees. Yes, but I think it's
weird because you also have to be aware that those
(34:43):
those kinds of programs do have major issues.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Wow, that's so. It's so interesting just how complex any
one little issue is that we're dealing with here in
me and.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Mar Yeah, we'll also think, you know, things like the
flaws inherent and lot of systems for Hey, you're a refugee,
may the odds be in your favor? That is fed up, Yes,
you know what I mean. So this is and thank
you for the beep there, Dylan. We feel strongly about
this because the rest of the world has done very
(35:17):
little to stop the ongoing violence at this specific border
in Bangladesh, but also in me and Mar and the
region throughout the United Nations. The rest of the planet
seemed distracted by other disasters, you know, Ukraine, climate change
driven natural disasters, the growing instability inside Myanmar and along
(35:40):
that border in particular.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Here's the thing. When you ignore a problem, Yeah, the
problem remains unsolved, but the problem also gathers momentum. You
pay interest on the things that you ignore, right, and
the interest is adding up to the principle here, which
is that, depending on how things play out, the collapse
(36:04):
of Miandmark could destabilize the whole region, all of South Asia,
all of Southeast Asia getting nasty really really quickly. And
that's something that the government of China, the big dog
in the area, is very concerned about. And it's probably
why they support the military also because I think they
control the military.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
You think China does.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
I think well, I think they heavily influence the military. Again,
astrology controls the military, but I think China has a
lot of influence on it.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Got Yeah, astrology controls all of it and everyone everywhere, right,
at least if you believe, if you believe.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
That, Uncle g what's your sign?
Speaker 2 (36:43):
It's in the stars. But but I see what you're saying,
and that is when we say the government there were
talking about the junta, the one the government that took over.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Right, not the democratic government in exile.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
The unity that is at the UN Uh huh. Yeah, yeah, we're.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Not talking about those guys. We're talking, like you said,
about the military. And for some time now, China has
been concerned about the stability of its neighbor to the
south Miami. Yeah, mean Mars buffer state with India, because
you know, China and India real frenemies and they also
they need that buffer state. But China also has the
(37:22):
most control over mem r now and even though it's
a vassal state, being a vassal state doesn't prevent it
from bucking against Beijing. They kind of they will go
their own way if they feel motivated or if the
stars are right.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
And just for people who are unaware of vassal state
that it's not saying that China has complete control over them,
but they do function for a lot of the needs
of a controlling country in this case China.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. At economically, dependence upon
China for trade, for instance, financially dependent therefore in many ways.
So in twenty twenty three, just last year, as we record,
China called for a ceasefire in mean Mar because a
group of ethnic fighters sort of Gunni of fighters, captured
(38:12):
several border crossings between Meanmar and China. And so China
like a this is a terrible comparison with China, like
a parent had a sleepover, walked to the door, yelled
down into the stairs, into the den and said, you
kids piped down, you know.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
And while China was saying, okay, let's have a ceasefire,
and you guys stopped firing at each other, they also
kept firing. They conducted live fire drills on the side
of the frontier, and they did the classic move that
folks you would do too if you were them. He said,
just practicing.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Oh yeah, we're just practice with drills and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
just a just a drill, guys, we're just testing out
new tech or old tech, making sure it's still just
we're doing it right outside. It's like yelling down into
the basement and then just starting to fire weapons into
the ceiling. There's nobody there, and there's nothing up there,
(39:14):
but you can definitely hear the gunshots.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
While continually yelling calm down, down the stairs, everybody calmed down. Yeah,
the explosions will continue until you, guys mellow out. Is
kind of what they did. And you can see this
quoted in state run Chinese media and also, yeah, we
get it. Any member former current of a military force
(39:38):
knows that you do have to continually train because otherwise,
when you're in a real situation, you will have no
idea what.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
To do exactly. And this is something I've never thought about, Ben,
Just thinking about the arms that an infantry would have.
If you leave those arms somewhere in a barracks just
sitting around for i mean even months. Oh yeah, those
things aren't going to work right when it's time to
take them out and use them. So just like this
(40:08):
thought of not only keeping the troops well oiled, yeah,
but also but.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Love them up man, keep them loop.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
But that's what you have. You literally have to do
that with firearms.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Yes, yeah, you do. You have to. You have to
break down and clean the machine. The maintenance cost is
a cost and material. It's a cost in time, and
it's also a cost in human resources, right, because one
of the reasons the US military is so dangerous is
not just because of all the cutting edge, evil toys,
(40:41):
but it's also because you have battle hardened leadership, You
have experienced troops and officers, and a lot of militaries
don't really have that nowhere near on that level. You know.
It's the thing we don't often talk about, but it
is true.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Anyway, them oiled, so loop them up.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
So Dylan is loving this. Yeah, yeah, the side of approval.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
All right.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
So as of this summer twenty twenty four, China's military
is yet again just practicing along the border, just doing
some drills, you know what I mean. Pay no attention
to all these troops in the Yunnan province in southwestern China.
They're playing outside exactly.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
I cannot get the image of the guys from Predator,
like out of my head's all in the jungle, so
sweaty's no shirts?
Speaker 3 (41:39):
Oh my god? Yeah, Like, what is it? What's going on?
What do you see? It's I love this scene to
wear spoilers by the way for Predator, where in former
Governor Schwarzgnegger decides that he has to you know, the mud,
(42:00):
the mud on the chest.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Yes, yeah, man, you gotta get cold. Can't let him
see because the hot, hot oiled chest.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
And it's not like this alien can't switch to ultraviolet whatever.
But also it reminded me of Bugs Bunny watching old
Bugs Bunny cartoons back in the day. I realized, and
there is a non judgmental statement, there's an observation. I
realized that a lot of his plans and schemes unnecessarily
(42:29):
involved him putting on makeup and address interesting, like, he
really went out of his way for that part of
the scheme, you know what I mean? And so Arnold
our question for you, with all due respect, did you
really have to smear mud on yourself? And you know,
I think he did, snude, I think he did. Yeah,
(42:51):
But why if you felt like he had to do it,
I think you would have done it without the alien,
you think so. I think the jungle just gets to you.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Man, I get it. I get it. And those were
some huge weapons they had out there, and that probably
gets hot firing off. You know, just think about all
the rounds. It's not it's it's warm when you're firing
an automatic weapon.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Yes, yeah. It's also also the point about the jungle
is is quite salient because we know that it Earth's
biomes can absolutely like eat entire cities. It's happened before.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
I love that you're trying to bring this back.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
I don't think I'm trying.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
We just know we just went so far.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
But the jungle is. The jungle is a character in
the story.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
It's part of why the borders are so difficult to
control outside of concentrated crossings. It's kind of like the
parts of this area are like the dairy and Gap,
which we're gonna do another episode on. But the government
also of China, even though they say, okay, we're just
playing outside, we're just practicing, they also make no secret
that they're actively spinning up and if any belligerent Burmese
(44:05):
forces make it over the border, they're ready to tango. Yep.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
But China's also thinking about the money too, right there.
They've been working pretty hard.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
For the money.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Yes, a lot of the tensions are occurring right along
the border, as we said right at the top of this,
because people are still trying to trade in and out
of me and Mar again to make money, and me
and Mar's GDP is so reliant on moving goods out
of me and mar into other places.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Sure it's official GDP, but also it's actual GDP, which
are two very different numbers.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Very true because there is a robust under the table
gross domestic product what do we call that? Yeah, gross
domestic residue.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
Gross disreputable product, a something like that. Like China is.
So they're supporting Hunt and they tried to get They
tried to do carrot and stick diplomacy, which sometimes works.
They told the junta, Okay, you know, finger wag, you guys,
stop killing people. I don't care what the astrologer says.
(45:14):
You got to stop killing at least the specific people,
or we're going to cut your trade routes and you
kind of need the money. They did that, It didn't work.
The collapse continue, the instability spiraled, and so China has
reopened some trade routes recently. But you can still cut
the tension with a knife, just like in India. India
(45:35):
gave China the cold shoulder they had previously. All right,
So like in part of the Indian meandmor border, they
really want to focus on. You'll see something that happens
a lot in different parts of the world. There's an
ancient village, and then somebody in the days of the
(45:56):
ancient empios and the days of colodialism, just through a
line and said, this is where one country ends, this
is where another one begins. And it's like an interstate
rolling straight through your town. So the people who have
lived there ever since. Technically, you know, some of them
are in mem are technically some are in India, but
(46:18):
it's a rural area. They've been living that way forever.
They don't care. It does not really affect them in
their day to day, you know, kind of like when
people live in the upper part of the United States
and they're right on the border with Canada.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Yes, yes, no, it's exactly.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
I think like, oh, I live in the US or Canada,
but I work in the other country. You know. Yeah,
I guess I go through customs. But that's just Robert.
I see him every morning.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Oh, hold the phone, hmmm, I am yeah. This is
going to be a two part episode, and literally hold
the phone, because here in the middle of our series
on the troubled border of Myanmar, we're gonna pause. We'll
be back later this week. In the meantime, we want
to hear from you, fellow conspiracy realist.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Oh yes, yes, we are not done with this story
at all. But hey, maybe you've got some thoughts that
have been conjured since we began talking about this. Why
don't you find us on social media? We are conspiracy
stuff on Facebook and YouTube, which definitely go to YouTube
check that out. And there's another thing. There's a third
(47:29):
thing x and we are conspiracy stuff show on Instagram
and TikTok and guys, if you want to contact us
with your mouth parts, why not give us a call?
Speaker 3 (47:43):
Yes, literally, hold the phone. As we said, the number
to dial is the following one eight three three std WYTK.
You'll call in, you'll hear a beep like so beep,
and then you've got three minutes. Go nuts, tell us
what's on your mind. Not to not to blow too
much smoke. But we've never said no to a compliment.
(48:04):
Like Mark Twain, we can live off a good one
for like three months. There are just a few things
we'd ask you to do when you call.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Give yourself a cool nickname so we can put it
in the system and know when you call in every time.
It's not to track you. It's just to know, Hey,
this is the same person with this thought, and then
we're building a story together. It's amazing. Do let us
know if we can use your name and message on
the air. If you've got more to say than can
fit in a three minute voicemail, why not instead send
(48:31):
us a good old fashioned email.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence
we receive. Be well aware, yet to unafraid. Sometimes the
void writes back, Give us the links, give us the pictures,
Take us to the edge of the rabbit hole. Be
like humorous Harry. Send us some jokes.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
No, don't do.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
Send us some jokes that are of a different caliber.
Here's one. Why can't you tell kleptomaniac's metaphors because they
take literally conspiracy? At iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
Our colleague Nol is on an adventure but will be
returning shortly.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer, Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you
are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff
they don't want you to know. There is a civil
war happening right now as we record.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
This evening in the United.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
States, well not yet as we record, but depending on
when you listen to this episode or a possible series
of episodes, your mileage may vary. There's a fascinating case,
in a heartbreaking case of civil war that's been going
on since twenty twenty or so out in Me and.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Mar oh yes, formerly Burma if you even if you
check it out on Google Maps, it says me and
Mar and then like Burma. Also. Yeah. We learned about
this a little while back. I think it was sometime
in August of this year. We learned about it from
a listener who called themselves surf Rider, and we still
(01:36):
are unsure if it's writ er.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Or rider, but either way, surf writer, thank you again.
We said we would follow up with an episode on
this and Matt, could you tell us a little bit
more about what surfrider or writer was talking about.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Surf Wright was specifically talking about criminal organizations that were
functioning on the border of Me and Mar, like basically
all the way all around the border of Me and Mar,
but specifically around one river. I think you say moa
river MOEI And it's basically apartment complexes, eat love, prey,
(02:16):
places where it's self contained. Basically, if you live in
one of these places, you just stay there. And out
of these places, there's a lot of organized crime and
human trafficking where people are basically shipped in to function
there as cogs in a big old I guess scam.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Chain scam, slave farms. Yeah, we've explored. You know, mean
Mar is familiar to a lot of people aka Burma,
but there's a lot more that escapes the attention of
the West. It's a story of crime, conspiracy, and chaos
all spiraling out of control along the border of Myanmar
(02:57):
and much of the rest of the world seems to
will ignore the growing chaos. The world collectively looked at
the problem just like someone who sees a vagrant asking
for change at a traffic light. They made a passing
glance at me, Ammar, and they said, I have other
stuff to do. Well, guess what, folks, we don't. That's
(03:18):
our cold open.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Our Friday is fully open. Here we go.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Here are the facts. Okay, so it's interesting. We've been,
arguably Matt going through kind of a phase in exploring
mysteries and conspiracies in this region of the world, in
Southeast Asia. Wasn't too long ago that we talked about
the plane of jars, and thank you to our conspiracy
realist who wrote in to correct us and say, actually,
(03:54):
these don't look like cauldrons or jars, these look like crocs.
See ours? Really?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, I don't know, I saw some pictures.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
You wrote a fantastic matter of fact, let's pull up
the name. You wrote such a fantastic letter to us.
Held off on answering it because.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
We are saying crock pots like the thing my mom
used to make pot roast in Yes, okay, yeah, well,
what are we saying that just crocs. I don't know.
Is that a brand name.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I'm unsure, like that time we got in trouble for
saying Frisbee instead of I just know.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Do you plug them in? They're electric and they make
potatoes real nice and good.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
I love it. I love I have an emotional you have,
you know how I like? I have three emotions a
year or something. One of those is affection for my crockpot. Yeah,
which is sorry, Grandma.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Just cook a little and slow baby.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
That is caddyewampus. By the way, what is caddy wanting?
Caddywampus is the wrote oh about the difference between cauldrons, jars,
and crocs, to which we say caddy. That's a croc.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, that's a krak of caddywamp as vases.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yes, there we go, they're vases. So the plane of
jars and Laos the mystery has not been solved. Myanmar, though.
If you've looked at the map from our previous exploration
of Laos, you'll see that Myanmar parentheses Burma is just
to the west of Laos.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, and it borders a ton of countries. The border
that it shares with Laos is fairly small compared to
like Thailand, which is right south.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
The whole peninsula base right split in half exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
But then you've also got China, what Bangladesh? And aren't
there is there more? Is it just mostly India? India too?
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Gosh?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So they are they? Well, that's why, that's why this
episode is so complicated and interesting and potentially impactful, because
that the land that makes up me and mar potentially
has influence on so many other countries.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
One hundred percent And well said. You know, some conspiracy
realist of a certain age may recall when this country
changed its name, because it didn't change its name to
Myanmar until nineteen eighty nine. Wow. Yeah, most famously when
Marvel Comics published a new edition of their encyclopedia.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Oh wow, I remember it.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
That's the other thing that happened. Those are the two
I did.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
But yeah, I remember when I was six years old
and looked at at the old TV and they said
Burma is now Myanmar, and I was like, I'll remember
this for the rest of my life.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
And they might be giants later really missed the ball
on that one, didn't They too much focus on Turkey?
But okay, names aside, people have been living in this
area since far before we started calling it what we
call it today. The first human settlers appeared on this
central plaine because there are plains and there are hills,
(07:10):
and the people are often called like the plains people
or the hill people. The first humans were there eleven
thousand years ago. And I love what you brought up there,
Matt about it's the luck of the draw in the
geography here. It's been a nexus point for all kinds
of exchanges. I mean, it's sandwiched in between these two
(07:30):
homes to ancient civilizations India and China. They're always trying
to spend, like send stuff to each other, yes, sometimes
send wars to each.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Other sometimes and expand their borders, but often they're attempting
to trade because in order to fight wars and other
parts of the world, you have to have a significant
amount of money coming in, usually via trade. Yeah, I
want to just quickly talk about that eleven thousand years number, because,
like we've talked about on the show numerous times, that
(07:59):
is the best evidence we have right now of human
beings living in that area, right so, and we are
discovering year over year that human beings have been around
doing stuff for way longer than we even think or expected.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
It changes every year, just like the nomination for world's
oldest person, that's the world record with the most turnover.
I think that's a really good point, Matt, because when
we say whenever we say evidence indicates humans, we're in
so and so or doing so and so by x
amount of time, it means that's when we found physical evidence. Yes,
(08:35):
and the world is hungry, especially this part of the world.
It eats the creations of man, including human remains so hungry,
so so famished. Tune into our later episode, by the way,
on the future of poop. Just always be closing, always
be closing, you know it is.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
It's the type of side hustle I never expected. But
it is like a gift once you realize that you
can sell your own poop if you're diligent enough. Yes,
or Dylan Genta enough. Oh gosh, he could sell his
poop right now, like today, I will.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, I think we're going to leave this in. I
would I'm not saying one hundred percent sold, but I
would love to read some literature and hear the pitch.
Oh yeah yeah. And also just a quick shout out
to Dylan. We could leave this part at Dylan is
the guy who taught me that you can eat cheetos
with chopsticks. What to keep your fingers clean.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
That seems like a lot of work but also kind
of fun.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
So everybody's got a weird side hustle. Anyway, it's our segue,
and we're going to talk about some dangerous side hustles
for now. What you need to know is, once upon
a time, this place that we call mean Mar today,
it had a massive reputation for surrounding countries. Records from
China show that from the first century BCE to the
(10:03):
ninth century Common era there was something called the Pew
Government Pyu and we're not native speakers, so partner pronunciation.
This government. They didn't have prisons, they didn't have slaves,
they had quote no fetters or chains. And for the
rare criminals who got in trouble with this benevolent government,
(10:25):
the only punishment was quote a few strokes of a whip,
which surely still hurt.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Like yeah, dickens, but well, I mean strokes of a whip
that would that's like tearing flesh right for sure, and
it's way in my mind, it's way worse than maybe
some of at least the rumors and then actual policies
in Singapore of the caning that we heard about a
long time ago.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Yeah, it's a different thing too. But caning's very damaging.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yes, not good, but not the same as the velocity
that a whip attains when it.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Not the same laceration potential.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
That's a good way to put it.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's true. And also it depends
where you hit people. Like the old maritime punishment or
torture and was also used on enslaved people is bastinado when.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
They would put you in like a box of scorpions. No, no, no, no, no, no,
that's just hook.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Okay, I think that's just hook. But it is a
great idea, very fear factor. No, that's where they beat
the bottom of the feet. Oh yeah, because it hurts
a lot and it prevents you from it lowers your mobility. Yeah,
it's evilly well thought out. We're going to see some
of that anyway. We need to know this. Despite mean
(11:37):
Mar's modern day reputation, earned or unearned, it had a
much longer reputation in the past, being a very peaceful place.
It was pretty extraordinary both back then and in the
modern day. But it's no longer the case because Matt,
like we said, with an exus point where you can
be a facilitator of cultural exchange, you also have a
(12:00):
lot of people hungry for your real estate.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Oh for sure. And you essentially cross a river and
then you're in me and Mar from any you know,
any direction, unless you're coming in from the Bay of Bengal. Yeah,
you're just you're strolling through the place. And empires surely did.
Some of them just came through, you know, like rolled
through and caused some damage and some chaos. Others stuck around,
(12:24):
like I believe it was it was Japan that stuck
around for quite a while and officially occupied the place.
But you also had companies that were de facto countries,
like the British what was it, the British East India Company. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
not great. Who else is in there? Oh, mongol the
Mongolian invasions that occurred, and not just one. There's a
(12:48):
whole bunch of conflict that's been going on there for
a long time. It's another one of those places where
I've never had Me and Mar specific cuisine or like Burmese,
but I imagine it's an They're one of those places
in the world where there's so many different influences from
all of the strife, but also people who get displaced
there and then stay there. I would love to see whatever.
(13:10):
Whatever the cuisine, I don't know what you would call it,
but whatever the Me and Mark cuisine is, I want
to try.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
They usually call it Burmese cuisine. Yeah, I've I don't.
Our best bet for you and Dylan and myself would
be to go to Beauford Highway and just roll the dice,
which I love doing.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Just ask around, just ask around.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Be cool. But I have tried it in other parts
of the world and you nailed it because it's a
It's almost like Peruvian cuisine in that there are so
many other influences that they're great curries. I know you
love a curry.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah so.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
And I also know that every time we talk about
a far flung country, we have to talk about the food.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah. Sorry, I didn't mean it's.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Important, man. And also I think maybe both of us
skipped breakfast. I know, but we know for sure that
the British East India Company famously asks, well, just walk
out the street for that one. But we also know
that to your point, mat after amid Japanese occupation, the
(14:16):
country we now call Mianmar declared its independence in nineteen
forty seven with the Burma Independence Act of nineteen forty seven.
Not the most creative name, but an awesome idea. We're
all about independence. Problem is when a country moves out
of occupation or colonialism and becomes independent, it is also
(14:39):
at one of the most vulnerable periods in its history.
The time after immediate independence is very, very dicey.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Oh, I mean, well, it's it's such a difficult thing
to do. You're trying to establish what the government looks
like and how it functions right in this independent nation.
You also need a strong enough military to defend that
nation and or gain independence from whoever you know is
occupying your nation that you want to build. But then
you've got to be really careful with that military, make
(15:14):
sure it's not too powerful and it doesn't want to
just take the reins and decide what happens or doesn't
happen in your new country.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Exactly. Yeah, that is the Oh, you nailed it. That
is one of the trickiest parts, especially of any kind
of representative democracy, any kind of you know, even constitutional monarchy,
where there is some kind of voice for the people,
it has to exist in conjunction with the military. And
(15:43):
that's why so many constitutions separate what the military can
and cannot do with civilians. And that's also why militaries
have such a reputation for being compromised, especially in post
colonial countries. Cough Wagner, cough cough Africa, cough cough everywhere.
(16:05):
Right now side gigs, we were talking about you know
what I mean, some people sell poop, other people sell nations.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Hi, I specialize in private special operations, I mean party,
I mean gigs.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
I'm a tourist, I'm a consultant. I would love to
have a conversation with the colonel.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, it's cool, it's cool. We're just totally I'm just
gonna go on the roof or in the basement with
this suitcase. Yeah, and everything's cool. But it really is
a it's a it's a messed up thing that everybody
has to do because in the end, it's ideas, and
when you're forming a new government, especially you know, in
revolt of some existing thing, you got to make sure
(16:52):
everybody's on the same page. And how in the heck,
do you get everybody on the same page. It's not possible.
Some people are going to think differently than whoever the
founders are right, and if they've got weapons and know how,
then you could be in trouble.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
And often the so called agents of revolution just want
to have the same terrible operation, the same horrific machine,
but they want to be the one at the lever
which makes it now good.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah, there sure is. There are a lot of goods
going through this specific port, on this specific border. It
should sure would be nice if I was the one,
you know, taking the bribes every time the illegal goods
went across.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Yeah, that's what people in the world of nation states.
That's often what people mean when they say they solved
a problem. They mean now they are profiting from the
earlier problem, because that's what they were solving for anyway.
So what we're saying is it makes sense. Unfortunately that,
like so many other countries in the region, modern day
(17:58):
Meanmar has been best with its own struggles inner turmoil,
foreign intervention continues, government upheavals violence, it's continuing unrest and
conflict to this day. And that's because just less than
two decades after independence, it's nineteen sixty seven and the
(18:20):
military does a coup d'ta. Yeah, they just come in.
Perhaps it was their idea, but maybe maybe.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
But again, there's so much potential influence. Yeah, yeah, there's
so much potential influence. And we do have to say
mentioned it earlier, specifically influenced from India and China, because
they are the two most populous countries in the world
and they're also two of the most powerful. In India
(18:59):
is definitely, I mean, it's up there, don't I don't
know if you can say the number four most powerful
or whatever. But India has a lot of strength, a
lot of military mind might in a lot of technology.
China has the same. So it you can imagine even
back in sixty seven, that influence there.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Is possible, incredibly strong. And let's not forget that there
is still at that point, there are still post colonial
forces from the game that are involved. There's still you know,
like shout out to BRIDGERD. Kipling's Kim, you know, the
Brits are still there in some capacity, and of course
sixty seven you've got French Indo, China, you've got the
(19:43):
US definitely not being there.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, the US was not a part of any of that.
Uh uh no, no, nor was the Soviet Union in
any way.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Shame on you for these unfounded allegations. But yeah, for
one reason or another, this military Coupjata. We're not oversimple.
We don't want to oversimplify a lot led to it.
We do clearly suspect for an intervention of some sort,
the military dictatorship ends up ruling more or less the
(20:15):
same up to now, up to twenty twenty four, is
we record this spoiler, they're super duper weird. I'm just
an observation. They're very into astrology. Oh yeah, yeah to
Burmese astrology. It's the reason they moved the capitol.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
That's amazing on it. I have not encountered that in
any of the research today. I'm gonna look into that
after this, and we all should, because that is fascinating.
That's a whole episode I want to know.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Yeah, but we should totally do that, and before we
uh what do you call it? Before we seem as
though we are casting aspersion here, Let's also keep in
mind that former US presidents have had court astrologers, Oh yeah,
which is basically a magician.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Gosh, that's exciting.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
At that point, and we're not saying there's anything wrong
with astrology, western or other derivations.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah. You know, if I ever become president, I'm gonna
have like a court Duncan Trussell who's just there to
be like, we got a finger moouth of this man.
And I'll be like, oh, Duncan, you're.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Right, I'm gonna just have a straight up court magician.
Oh okay, no, wait, We'll have a court magician like
a Copperfield is this your card kind of guy? And
then we'll have a court sorcerer and it'll have to
be the weirdest person we could find.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I'm gonna get. I'm gonna get officially a new position
in the West Wing called the West Wing Warlock. And
I love it. And he he just haunts the place.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Okay, yes, yeah, I love it. I love it. Wesley
West Wing Warlock. Let's hope his name's Wesley.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
We just call him w.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Didn't some guy already get that nick? I think so, well,
we'll cast him then if he's already got the nickname, he's.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Just he's just in this Oh, he's in his sanctum
in the West Wing, just painting.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Just painting weirdly intimate pictures of himself. Oh I love
it in the top. That's that's the real magic. It's
the paintings we made along the way.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Oh wow, I don't know how we got here, and
it's my fault.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
And here you know, we're gonna magic it back because
look as crazy and I kind of derail this on that,
as crazy as it sounds. Yes, the leadership of Myanmar
is what we call a military junta. There aren't really elections.
Every time there is an election and the people have
spoken or you know, the upper middle class or whatever
(22:42):
is spoken, then boom, boom boom, there's another coup, a
cuckoo coup, right, and this happens again and again. They
crush opposition. In the case of the twenty twenty general election,
it didn't go their way. They pointed Anjong Sansuki, who
(23:03):
is a world famous activist, and when the election didn't
go their way, the military, known as the Tatma dal H,
staged another coup. And part of the turmoil we're in now,
this civil war that begins in the wake of this
other coup, is because of the point we raised earlier.
(23:23):
There's a lot of ethnic diversity. This is not this
is not near as homogeneous a place as say Norway
or Japan.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
No, No, it's weird to talk about this, but fifty
six percent are Burmese, which is like, I was born here,
I grew up here, I know everything here, I speak
the language I am a I am.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Burmese, similarly like Han Chinese exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
But then the rest, I mean, the rest is just
split up between all of these different cultures that have
gone through the area.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
The Karen, the San.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
The Karen's a big deal.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
The Karen is a huge deal.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
And it's we're not being silly about that.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
We're being kind of silly.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
But that's a real that's a real thing.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
It is a real thing.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
A bunch of the issues that have been happening recently
are about the Karen.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Yes, one hundred percent. There's also a conflict between other groups,
the Shan, the Laou, and the Karen. There are multiple
moves for secession, for autonomy, multiple contradictory religious or ideological goals.
It's it's a huge stew right just even unto the language.
(24:36):
The official language is Burmese, but there are tons of
indigenous languages and they're mutually unintelligible. In some cases. Diversity
is always a huge benefit to a country over time,
but mismanaged internal conflicts in diversity can lead to chaos,
which is why Meammar has been in that civil war.
(24:58):
Even the civil war is messy. All right, you got
the military on one.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Side, Okay, that's easy.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
They're not the official government, but they do run everything.
And then you've got the National Unity Government. Wait a second,
nug Yes, they're the government in exile.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Okay, so they don't.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Run the thing. But when the UN has their little parties,
these are the folks who show up.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
That's so funny.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
I'm sorry I should say Sessions. I don't think the
UN is hitting people up on the group chat.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah, got a party, be there promptly at eight point fifteen.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Hit them with an LMAO to take the sting off, right, Yeah,
I'm learning how to text.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
But that is interesting though, that there's a there's an
official recognized government that runs the show as far as
the rest of the world is concerned. But then in
all actuality, it's essentially the military slash official other official government,
not the Unity government, the other one.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Yeah, it's kind of like in Somalia. Right, because warlords
run huge regions of the area, but there is a
government in exile, largely in exile that this is an
unfortunate thing that happens. But those aren't the only two
sides of the civil war. There is also a monopoly
of rebel groups right, often with indigenous roots to a
(26:21):
particular ethnicity or people's And.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
That's like the Karen group we're talking about, exactly exactly.
Sorry you're still going up, please continue. I was just
interjecting so that in the way my mind made that connection,
I wanted other people to make that.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Yes, the Karen. Tell us a little bit about the
Karen while we're here.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Uh oh, sorry is it in here? Because I don't
know if I could tell fully about it. I read
about it though.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
We know it's spelled like the name Karen. Has nothing
to do with the memes except in our heads and
in our hearts.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
That is correct. Here we go. This is I'm gonna
re from a story here from Irrawadi from February twenty eighth,
twenty twenty three, so a while ago. Yeah, and this
goes back to the original stuff we were looking at
when we went to b and mar In that listener
mail episode. But this was about Karen National Union or
(27:17):
the kN U, and specifically it was about their involvement
in a quote Chinese project in Mirawadi. This is one
particular city that where it's like a border city that
we've talked about there there connects to Thailand and it's
all about that place KK Park, which was one of
(27:39):
those suburban hubs where all that crime was happening. Sure,
but I don't know that I can fully tell you
about this Karen National Union or the militaries that they control.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Yeah, and that that can be tough because the situation
is somewhat fluid to be quite honest. But the Karen
are what are called Taibeto Burmo people or Burman people,
so have roots in Burma in Tibet and they're they're
an ethno linguistic group who are about they're pretty small,
they're about six point six y nine nice percent of
(28:14):
the population. A lot of people from this group have
moved into Thailand, got it through the notoriously porous Thai
Burmese or memr border anyway. So there's this crazy complicated
civil war. It's absolutely terrible for the civilians. We've got
one official government that is in exile. We've got a
(28:36):
military junta, We've got a ton of other folks in between,
secessionist groups, GETTIA fighters, and then of course I'm just
pretty heinous, straight up criminals. Oh yeah, who are just
there the way that vultures go to a charnel pit.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yes, and from various countries that are just illegally in
the country and just do their thing because for some
reason they feel like they can get away with it,
and perhaps they can get away with it, maybe a
little more easily than they could if they were on
their home turf.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Yeah. As of March twenty twenty three, the United Nations
estimated that post February twenty twenty one COUPS, seventeen point
six million people in Mianmar required humanitarian assistance, one point
six million were internally displaced, run out of their homes
(29:31):
and their towns, and over fifty five thousand civilian buildings
had been destroyed. Now, how many refugees are there and
other adjacent countries, we simply do not know.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
You know, there was a bit of a program within
the US to bring in ME and R refugees, which is,
at least from what I'm reading, is looking to be
shut down by the current administration or the incoming administration,
So it'll be interesting to see what happens there.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
And if you want to visit Meanmar, bad news. All
travelers are warned to stay away, even if you are
a refugee or if you've relocated and you're part of
the diaspora, your nation state is probably going to warn
you not to go there, especially the major cities, the
(30:25):
new capital. The clashes between the government and exile and
the hunta and all these other opportunistic forces mean that
multiple groups consider themselves the rule of law in the country,
the state power and the only real operative definition of
state is the monopoly over violence, So multiple actors feel
(30:47):
they have a monopoly over violence. You step out of
line one time and one in the wrong person's opinion,
you are in jail and no one's going to help you.
Nowhere is the chaos more visible than along those borders Bangladesh,
in China, allows Thailand. It seems to be trouble at
every single international line. So what is happening and why?
Speaker 2 (31:09):
We'll get into it right after a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Here's where it gets crazy, all right, before we dive
into even deeper conspiracies here, Matt, I propose we take
a look at the border country by country.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Ooh, let's do this.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Yeah, yeah, it's a spoiler. It's not a super pleasant story, folks.
If we start with Bangladesh, which is also the title
of a great song by our friend Himes and your
old Drug. But if you start with Bangladesh, let's go
to the Diplomat. They have a great article about this
where they point out that Bangladesh is having problems with
(31:59):
the border guard police on the Meanmar side illegally crossing
the border and getting in fights with the border guards
from Bangladesh the Myanmar forces. Because there's no single authority
who decides what is or isn't legal, they're very difficult
to negotiate with. So Bangladesh is facing continual incursions, mortar attacks,
(32:24):
gunships are coming in, and then they go back to
who they thought was the authority, Meanmar, and then they
just keep passing the buck. Oh that's a different warlord.
Oh you're looking for the you know, the Karens or whatever.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Yeah, it's such a weird situation just to have a
hole like in this case, like one hundred people coming
across a border from ME and MAR saying hey, it's
not good over there. Help and then they're like, uh,
y'all can't really trust you here. But then also there's
mortars coming from the ME and R side, right, you're
(32:59):
just like.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Well, also, yet we have to keep in mind those
the border guards from Myanmar who are incurring into Bangladeshi territory.
They're often chasing and attempting to kill ethnic minorities from Myanmar,
the Rohinga in particular.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Who are perhaps escaping situations on that side.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Of the world straight up refugees. These are not tourists,
These are not merks, These are not consultants. These are
innocent people who are running for their lives. Quite literally.
The government of Myanmar or the ruling junta, has expelled
the ethnic Rohinga into Bangladeshi territory actively since nineteen seventy eight,
and just since August of twenty seventeen, there have been
(33:44):
more than one point three million Rohinga refugees stuck in Bangladesh.
They have nowhere to go. It's not just that they
feel unsafe back home. It's that even when they try
their home, government won't let them men yeah, and will
attack them.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yeah, and Bangladesh itself as a country has had so
many problems over the last twenty years that I've been
paying attention at least. And I've known several people from
that country who you know, openly talk about the issues
of the country they love and wish they could go back,
even to Bangladesh, but they just can't. It's just so,
(34:23):
it just makes me really sad, especially for all these
people who are displaced, and it is God, it makes
me thankful and hopeful for countries that do have robust
programs to bring in refugees. Yes, but I think it's
weird because you also have to be aware that those
(34:43):
those kinds of programs do have major issues.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Wow, that's so. It's so interesting just how complex any
one little issue is that we're dealing with here in
me and.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Mar Yeah, we'll also think, you know, things like the
flaws inherent and lot of systems for Hey, you're a refugee,
may the odds be in your favor? That is fed up, Yes,
you know what I mean. So this is and thank
you for the beep there, Dylan. We feel strongly about
this because the rest of the world has done very
(35:17):
little to stop the ongoing violence at this specific border
in Bangladesh, but also in me and Mar and the
region throughout the United Nations. The rest of the planet
seemed distracted by other disasters, you know, Ukraine, climate change
driven natural disasters, the growing instability inside Myanmar and along
(35:40):
that border in particular.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Here's the thing. When you ignore a problem, Yeah, the
problem remains unsolved, but the problem also gathers momentum. You
pay interest on the things that you ignore, right, and
the interest is adding up to the principle here, which
is that, depending on how things play out, the collapse
(36:04):
of Miandmark could destabilize the whole region, all of South Asia,
all of Southeast Asia getting nasty really really quickly. And
that's something that the government of China, the big dog
in the area, is very concerned about. And it's probably
why they support the military also because I think they
control the military.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
You think China does.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
I think well, I think they heavily influence the military. Again,
astrology controls the military, but I think China has a
lot of influence on it.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Got Yeah, astrology controls all of it and everyone everywhere, right,
at least if you believe, if you believe.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
That, Uncle g what's your sign?
Speaker 2 (36:43):
It's in the stars. But but I see what you're saying,
and that is when we say the government there were
talking about the junta, the one the government that took over.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Right, not the democratic government in exile.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
The unity that is at the UN Uh huh. Yeah, yeah, we're.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Not talking about those guys. We're talking, like you said,
about the military. And for some time now, China has
been concerned about the stability of its neighbor to the
south Miami. Yeah, mean Mars buffer state with India, because
you know, China and India real frenemies and they also
they need that buffer state. But China also has the
(37:22):
most control over mem r now and even though it's
a vassal state, being a vassal state doesn't prevent it
from bucking against Beijing. They kind of they will go
their own way if they feel motivated or if the
stars are right.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
And just for people who are unaware of vassal state
that it's not saying that China has complete control over them,
but they do function for a lot of the needs
of a controlling country in this case China.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. At economically, dependence upon
China for trade, for instance, financially dependent therefore in many ways.
So in twenty twenty three, just last year, as we record,
China called for a ceasefire in mean Mar because a
group of ethnic fighters sort of Gunni of fighters, captured
(38:12):
several border crossings between Meanmar and China. And so China
like a this is a terrible comparison with China, like
a parent had a sleepover, walked to the door, yelled
down into the stairs, into the den and said, you
kids piped down, you know.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
And while China was saying, okay, let's have a ceasefire,
and you guys stopped firing at each other, they also
kept firing. They conducted live fire drills on the side
of the frontier, and they did the classic move that
folks you would do too if you were them. He said,
just practicing.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Oh yeah, we're just practice with drills and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
just a just a drill, guys, we're just testing out
new tech or old tech, making sure it's still just
we're doing it right outside. It's like yelling down into
the basement and then just starting to fire weapons into
the ceiling. There's nobody there, and there's nothing up there,
(39:14):
but you can definitely hear the gunshots.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
While continually yelling calm down, down the stairs, everybody calmed down. Yeah,
the explosions will continue until you, guys mellow out. Is
kind of what they did. And you can see this
quoted in state run Chinese media and also, yeah, we
get it. Any member former current of a military force
(39:38):
knows that you do have to continually train because otherwise,
when you're in a real situation, you will have no
idea what.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
To do exactly. And this is something I've never thought about, Ben,
Just thinking about the arms that an infantry would have.
If you leave those arms somewhere in a barracks just
sitting around for i mean even months. Oh yeah, those
things aren't going to work right when it's time to
take them out and use them. So just like this
(40:08):
thought of not only keeping the troops well oiled, yeah,
but also but.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Love them up man, keep them loop.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
But that's what you have. You literally have to do
that with firearms.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Yes, yeah, you do. You have to. You have to
break down and clean the machine. The maintenance cost is
a cost and material. It's a cost in time, and
it's also a cost in human resources, right, because one
of the reasons the US military is so dangerous is
not just because of all the cutting edge, evil toys,
(40:41):
but it's also because you have battle hardened leadership, You
have experienced troops and officers, and a lot of militaries
don't really have that nowhere near on that level. You know.
It's the thing we don't often talk about, but it
is true.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Anyway, them oiled, so loop them up.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
So Dylan is loving this. Yeah, yeah, the side of approval.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
All right.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
So as of this summer twenty twenty four, China's military
is yet again just practicing along the border, just doing
some drills, you know what I mean. Pay no attention
to all these troops in the Yunnan province in southwestern China.
They're playing outside exactly.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
I cannot get the image of the guys from Predator,
like out of my head's all in the jungle, so
sweaty's no shirts?
Speaker 3 (41:39):
Oh my god? Yeah, Like, what is it? What's going on?
What do you see? It's I love this scene to
wear spoilers by the way for Predator, where in former
Governor Schwarzgnegger decides that he has to you know, the mud,
(42:00):
the mud on the chest.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Yes, yeah, man, you gotta get cold. Can't let him
see because the hot, hot oiled chest.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
And it's not like this alien can't switch to ultraviolet whatever.
But also it reminded me of Bugs Bunny watching old
Bugs Bunny cartoons back in the day. I realized, and
there is a non judgmental statement, there's an observation. I
realized that a lot of his plans and schemes unnecessarily
(42:29):
involved him putting on makeup and address interesting, like, he
really went out of his way for that part of
the scheme, you know what I mean? And so Arnold
our question for you, with all due respect, did you
really have to smear mud on yourself? And you know,
I think he did, snude, I think he did. Yeah,
(42:51):
But why if you felt like he had to do it,
I think you would have done it without the alien,
you think so. I think the jungle just gets to you.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Man, I get it. I get it. And those were
some huge weapons they had out there, and that probably
gets hot firing off. You know, just think about all
the rounds. It's not it's it's warm when you're firing
an automatic weapon.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Yes, yeah. It's also also the point about the jungle
is is quite salient because we know that it Earth's
biomes can absolutely like eat entire cities. It's happened before.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
I love that you're trying to bring this back.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
I don't think I'm trying.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
We just know we just went so far.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
But the jungle is. The jungle is a character in
the story.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
It's part of why the borders are so difficult to
control outside of concentrated crossings. It's kind of like the
parts of this area are like the dairy and Gap,
which we're gonna do another episode on. But the government
also of China, even though they say, okay, we're just
playing outside, we're just practicing, they also make no secret
that they're actively spinning up and if any belligerent Burmese
(44:05):
forces make it over the border, they're ready to tango. Yep.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
But China's also thinking about the money too, right there.
They've been working pretty hard.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
For the money.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Yes, a lot of the tensions are occurring right along
the border, as we said right at the top of this,
because people are still trying to trade in and out
of me and Mar again to make money, and me
and Mar's GDP is so reliant on moving goods out
of me and mar into other places.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Sure it's official GDP, but also it's actual GDP, which
are two very different numbers.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Very true because there is a robust under the table
gross domestic product what do we call that? Yeah, gross
domestic residue.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
Gross disreputable product, a something like that. Like China is.
So they're supporting Hunt and they tried to get They
tried to do carrot and stick diplomacy, which sometimes works.
They told the junta, Okay, you know, finger wag, you guys,
stop killing people. I don't care what the astrologer says.
(45:14):
You got to stop killing at least the specific people,
or we're going to cut your trade routes and you
kind of need the money. They did that, It didn't work.
The collapse continue, the instability spiraled, and so China has
reopened some trade routes recently. But you can still cut
the tension with a knife, just like in India. India
(45:35):
gave China the cold shoulder they had previously. All right,
So like in part of the Indian meandmor border, they
really want to focus on. You'll see something that happens
a lot in different parts of the world. There's an
ancient village, and then somebody in the days of the
(45:56):
ancient empios and the days of colodialism, just through a
line and said, this is where one country ends, this
is where another one begins. And it's like an interstate
rolling straight through your town. So the people who have
lived there ever since. Technically, you know, some of them
are in mem are technically some are in India, but
(46:18):
it's a rural area. They've been living that way forever.
They don't care. It does not really affect them in
their day to day, you know, kind of like when
people live in the upper part of the United States
and they're right on the border with Canada.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Yes, yes, no, it's exactly.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
I think like, oh, I live in the US or Canada,
but I work in the other country. You know. Yeah,
I guess I go through customs. But that's just Robert.
I see him every morning.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Oh, hold the phone, hmmm, I am yeah. This is
going to be a two part episode, and literally hold
the phone, because here in the middle of our series
on the troubled border of Myanmar, we're gonna pause. We'll
be back later this week. In the meantime, we want
to hear from you, fellow conspiracy realist.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Oh yes, yes, we are not done with this story
at all. But hey, maybe you've got some thoughts that
have been conjured since we began talking about this. Why
don't you find us on social media? We are conspiracy
stuff on Facebook and YouTube, which definitely go to YouTube
check that out. And there's another thing. There's a third
(47:29):
thing x and we are conspiracy stuff show on Instagram
and TikTok and guys, if you want to contact us
with your mouth parts, why not give us a call?
Speaker 3 (47:43):
Yes, literally, hold the phone. As we said, the number
to dial is the following one eight three three std WYTK.
You'll call in, you'll hear a beep like so beep,
and then you've got three minutes. Go nuts, tell us
what's on your mind. Not to not to blow too
much smoke. But we've never said no to a compliment.
(48:04):
Like Mark Twain, we can live off a good one
for like three months. There are just a few things
we'd ask you to do when you call.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Give yourself a cool nickname so we can put it
in the system and know when you call in every time.
It's not to track you. It's just to know, Hey,
this is the same person with this thought, and then
we're building a story together. It's amazing. Do let us
know if we can use your name and message on
the air. If you've got more to say than can
fit in a three minute voicemail, why not instead send
(48:31):
us a good old fashioned email.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence
we receive. Be well aware, yet to unafraid. Sometimes the
void writes back, Give us the links, give us the pictures,
Take us to the edge of the rabbit hole. Be
like humorous Harry. Send us some jokes.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
No, don't do.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
Send us some jokes that are of a different caliber.
Here's one. Why can't you tell kleptomaniac's metaphors because they
take literally conspiracy? At iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know News
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Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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