November 22, 2024 • 41 mins
Modern-day Myanmar remains home to a unique cultural heritage and stunning natural beauty -- yet today it's also home to a wide range of deeply disturbing conspiracies and crimes. In part two of this special two-part series, Ben and Matt explore the booming criminal industries of the country - especially entire communities dedicated to human trafficking and online scams.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
Our colleague Nol is adventuring still.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
But will return soon. They call me Ben. We're joined
as always with our super producer Dylan the Tennessee pow Fagan.
Most importantly, you are you. You are here. That makes
this the stuff they don't want you to know a
bit of a special case, fellow conspiracy realist. This is
part two of a two part series on the troubled
(00:55):
Border of meanmarn Honestly, Matt, troubled is vastly understating the case.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, there's so many issues here that we've been going
over thus far, and we're about to get into a
lot more of them. And I'm just looking at some
of the some of the news reporting just over this
year since April with the civil war stuff that's been
going on, and then connecting it to the powerful forces
that are able to operate, some of the military forces
(01:24):
as well as some of the resistance forces that are
out there that are battling each other all across Meenmar,
especially near the borders, and a lot of that money
that's funding this stuff is coming from the crime.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
One hundred percent. We also know that people who are
being enslaved in these certain camps that we're going to
talk about, we know they're coming from around the world.
This is an international conspiracy. So please please please tune
into episode one of this series, the first part to
get a handle on what we're talking about. And now
(01:59):
without the ad part two of the Troubled Border of Meanmar,
can we talk.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
About the somewhat strange border that India has with me
and Maar, Because Bangladesh is, like, I don't know, tucked
in between this tiny little piece of land that sends
India around the top of Bangladesh and around to the
(02:32):
side and then wraps around where it actually borders with
me and Maar, and it is it's so interesting, And
I was wrong when I looked at it. Initially I
thought that Bangladesh actually had this very large border with Myanmar,
but no, that's actually India. Yeah, it just wraps around.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Like a thousand miles.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah, it's huge.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
It's huge, and it's because it's huge. Again, it's porous
and the ethnic groups residing there live on either side
of the border. Previously, previously on India, the Modi administration
had said, Okay, we're gonna give you a free movement.
We understand that everybody living in these villages, you have
(03:15):
close knit kinshit you have more in common with yourselves
than you have with us running India's government. So you know,
free movement anyone on either side of the border. Here,
if you live here, you can go ten miles into
the other country. You don't need a visa because it's
you know, you're probably going to work, You're probably going
(03:35):
to go visit your mom or something. Just pass through,
say hey to Robert, and go on your merry way.
But then with the Civil War, meandmar began printing, refugees
flooding into India at a rate, and the rural areas
simply couldn't take. I mean, imagine if folks, tell us
where you live, and give us your Social Security number,
(03:58):
but tell us where you live, and imagine imagine your
town cut in half. If Atlanta all of a sudden
was part us and then part a different country A
what country would it be? And see who would be
running to which side, because if it's a better country
than the US, we're all going to go. If someone's like, hey,
(04:21):
south of I twenty is now Switzerland and that happens
in ten days, what do you happen? You know what
I mean? Anybody who ends up south of twenty inside
two eighty five, congratulations, you are now a Swiss citizen.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
WHOA I would do it? Yeah? Do you think we
can make that happen? I want to go there.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
I'm South Swiss is what we call ourselves, south switzz Yeah, yep,
I don't know. It's a question. And when things were
going so horribly, Arai and me and mar Ala, these
people were asking selves the same question. They went over
to India, or they were not allowed to go to
India because the government decided to build a wall.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
They built that wall, baby, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
They ended the free movement program, they built the wall.
They cited national security concerns because of the civil war,
which makes sense.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
They're those are real concerns.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
These are valid, but they're not necessarily exclusive. You have
real concerns and ulterior motives as well, you know, like, oh,
never mind, I don't know if I want to say
it like you know how like, yes, the cop might
have to pull somebody over for speeding, but it also
helps them with their quota. Yes, so those are two valid.
(05:48):
There's valid We'll see if we keep that one.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
I get it. I get what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
And not all law enforcement needs a quota obviously. Yeah,
I'm just thinking through cons actually there. It's it's sticky,
right because locals in this northeastern part of India in particular,
they say there's an ulterior motive. They say, you know what,
life here is rough in northeast India, And so what
(06:17):
we think is happening is the government is ignoring the
real problem and blaming migrants and refugees as a convenient
deflection away from addressing other more serious and subsidtuente problems.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Weird, gosh, that feels some deja vu, right, Yeah, something
resonating with me there.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Oh, look at Dylan's not Actually.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Can't put my finger on it, but it sounds familiar.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I wish I brought my magic eight ball, which is.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Cocaine signs point two.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
I've never tried it. I think I would age out
of that experience.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
But me and I think that's really good.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
I think so for it being so unpopular in college, Yeah,
is that what it was? I don't know. I just
think it was never the demographic yes us yay, gosh,
Still we're such dudley do rights. But we know, you know,
we know that people can be opportunistic with this kind
of stuff. And right now, eighty thousand refugees and asylum
(07:23):
seekers from Meamar live in India. Of those eighty thousand,
the vast majority came over since the twenty twenty one coup.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
So there are similar instances in Thailand and of course Laos.
Just recently meamr national was brutally beaten to death in
Thailand and there's a flood of methamphetamine as you know,
coming through that area. We see the civil wars bringing
refugees death and chaos, and other countries try to do
(07:53):
the right This is really important, folks. Other countries try
to do the right thing in assisting refugees, but they're
under no lea real legal compulsion to do so. That's
why when speaking of deja vu, you see a situation
with a lot of potential refugees, at least is indicated
by their Google searches. Every country you want to apply
(08:15):
to does not have to take you. It is their decision.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, so just like make yourself an amazing candidate on paper, Yes.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Ye do, take all the tricks you learn from social
media and just fake it till you make it exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, it's true. They do not have to do that.
But being you know, it's it's like the right thing
to do. But bringing in a bunch of new people
that need you know, the resources that you have on
offer as a country in a region, it is a
strain on everything when you bring in fifty thousand people
or more.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah. Yeah, pretty much anywhere bringing that many people.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
But again it it's the right thing to do. There's
no legal thing on you know, a country's next and
you have to do this, but it is probably the
right thing to do.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah. And the phrase we'll hear often by different countries
is eligible for refugee status. You have to apply for
this position. We will consider whether the way I was
about to say, the way they get you, but this
is true. The way that you calculate this stuff as
a country is you say, of course we accept refugees.
(09:27):
We're the good guys. This is the right thing to do,
and we do that as long as someone is eligible
for refugee status. You know what I mean, just answer
a few questions first and don't be this because we
hate those guys.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, it's really specific questions about Pokemon, like the specific
Pokemon in your preferences, in that kind of thing. And
then they're like, oh, I don't know, this is a
Jigglypuff guy. I don't like that. Oh that guy's way
too much into.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
It's bizarre metaphors, right, like the weird esoteric part of
the sat or the act. And then there's also stuff
where you can clearly tell they're not over the country
as a whole. It's not over its ex girlfriend. Why not?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
And they're like, okay, so race, religion, nationality. That checks out.
You are from a persecuted religious minority. What do you
do you know, Deborah? I do do you know Karen?
Who all right let them in? But you're the last
one for today, buddy, Karen.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
They don't even know that I know you.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
I just said no, Jason. I mean, it does seem
that arbitrary, right, We're having a little bit of levity
to it, but it is a serious problem. And because
of all this this mix of stuff right, the surge
and refugees, the wilful ignorance of the wider world, and
the strange moves at the border of Meamr with all
(11:03):
these other countries. Because of that, we see chaos and war,
the breakdown rule of law, which means we see crime.
Crime is so hot in MEMR right now.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Woo buddy, Yes it yes it is. I was channeling
my mom and told me there for a second. Yes
it is.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Yes, yeah, they shout out Langston David.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Oh, it's so funny. Yeah, And we're talking everything. And
one of the biggest issues here is that it's not
it's not like it's me and mar based crime syndicates.
Often sometimes it is, but not always. Often it's a
cartel that just moves into the territory like we were
talking about, because they can get away with it a
little easier.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Yes, yeah, we're gonna see why too, because they might
function in partnership with the local warlord or military group,
or secessionist group or Gerria group. I'm naming all the groups.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
You're gonna get paid if you let us operate right here,
you're gonna get your cut. Just let us make our
money exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Migrants from around the region. A lot of other countries,
like from Thailand, from the Philippines, from Sri Lanka, from India,
from Bangladesh, picture a country that is not China in
that region, someone there has been taken in with a
very strange, specific form of human trafficking. All the other
(12:27):
regular evil forms of human trafficking are real, are true,
and do continue there. But a lot of folks are
being kidnapped by these foreign domestic criminal partnerships and they're
being forced to scam targets in Europe and North America
online from compounds that are built and run for this
(12:49):
purpose by triads, by the Chinese organized crime. And we're
talking thousands and thousands and thousands of people, we don't
know how many exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
And we're talking about those weird, seemingly normal looking apartment
complexes where some of this stuff is taking place, where
people just live there and they are forced to do
this kind of work.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Yeah, it's similar to how slavery happens in the Middle East.
People from Afar right, are lured in with these promises
of a high paying job. You know, this is your
chance to get out of a really tough environment in
your town. You know, in Kenya and the Philippines or Malaysia,
you can provide for your family. Just work with us
(13:33):
for a few years and then you sadly, the dream
is often pitched as and then you can go back
to your home country and you'll have the capital to
start your own business. It's just a life changing thing.
But when they get there, if they have a visa
or a passport, it is taken from them, at least
in the Middle East. And if they just have a
job offer in this area of the world, in Southeast Asia,
(13:56):
then they don't have a legal protection. They're smuggled across
the border, like to the point where you get across
a river somewhere and you just got your suitcase, and
then the person who's supposed to be helping you says,
all right, run to the van. There's no customs, and
customs can be a pain in the ass, But if
you've ever had across a place without it, you're gonna
(14:16):
miss it. You're gonna miss that at least one person
is checking in on you in a way that is
not run to the van.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Well, yeah, because you know, well, if they're checking me,
they must be checking everybody. And there's a sense of safety.
Perhaps that comes with that, like sure, somebody's got an
eye on all of us. They're coming through.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Someone has decided there are rules to this road. That's it,
you know what I mean. It's not a free for all.
But yeah, these groups often don't have any rule of law.
They're outside the reach of law enforcement. The media is
not allowed. Civil society by which mean nonprofits and stuff.
They're not allowed. None of this of that. Doctors without
(15:01):
border's fancy stuff. It's just run to the van or
will kill you. There was a guy Jason Tower for USIP,
which is the United States Institute of Peace, my favorite name.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
I have read some stuff from. We've talked about these names.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Yeah, but they have a great point here. They say,
this is the United Nations of scamming. In meandmar scammers
are trafficked in as forced labor from all these different countries.
And we read this thing for the Pulitzer Center by
these two awesome Pulitzer grantees and journalists or three Alistair McReady,
(15:43):
Allegra Mendelssohn and Haintar. And these these folks tell just
heroin stories of firsthand experiences from from people who have
been trafficked as part of these scam slave farms.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yeah, and a lot of that poorest Hime Island me
and mar Border. Well, one of the major hubs there
is that town Miawatei, one of the really important ones
because that's one of the ones that militaries are constantly
coming in and out of trying to gain control.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Of, right because it's a profit center exactly. We're going
to pause here for a word from our sponsors and.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
We'll be back, and we're back.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
We don't know how many people have been victimized by this.
We simply don't. A lot of these folks exist off
the grid. They're the kind of people the world ignores.
But we have some indicators, some data indicators, that are terrified.
We know that pretty much everybody who is attempting to
(16:52):
prevent human trafficking in this part of the world, they
have all clocked a huge rise in trafficking situations. So
it's a tip of the Iceberg situation, at least that's
how geraldine An Start puts it.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Well, that makes a ton of sense, because you've got
to imagine only a tiny percentage of human trafficking victims
are ever able to escape enough to raise.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
A flag r right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
And to like seek help in any form or you know,
just literally in any way.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
And many don't have any of that kind of social
safety net to begin.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
With, exactly right. I mean, and I'm talking even getting
to a car to get down the road far enough
to actually get help from someone or an emergency service
like it's you were if you're in one of these situations,
you were potentially just stuck there.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
And it sounds very very easy, damnably easy to say, well,
if it were me in that situation, I would figure
something out. I would, you know, I am straight up
mcgiver and Jason barr all in one. I'm a sober
James Bond. I'm James Bond if he wasn't drunk. That
is not true. That is not what's going to happen.
(18:09):
That is a cinema that is perhaps fooling us because
their works of fiction, Your life is tightly controlled. You're beaten.
They beat the crap out of you every day. They
control you through fear, they control you through hunger. They
may get you hooked on drugs, yep, which is another
you know from our episode about how you would control
(18:29):
someone with an asset with esp Oh, yeah, that's one
of the best ways.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Right well, and especially when we're talking about crackdowns on
borders the way we're mentioning the border with India. If
they're controlling your passport and you are physically able to
get to a border crossing and you don't have a passport,
maybe someone you know takes mercy on you and says, Okay,
we'll at least consider your status.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Or you're an asylum seeker, yeah something.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
But you know, it's also likely that you don't. You
aren't given that benefit of the doubt if you just
show up there.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Yeah, And that's why. Look, also, this industry is worth
billions of dollars just online scamming people. It's not going
to slow down. The rule of law isn't functioning, and
the money is too good, so much so that in
some of these compounds or some of these towns like
you mentioned, Matt, the conflicting groups aren't fighting for their ideology.
(19:24):
They're fighting for control of the money maker, right of
that profit center. And the places have names like Family Park.
That Family Park alone has two thousand workers estimated in
this situation, or the KK Park zone, which is huge,
and this is where our Pulitzer journalists spend a lot
(19:45):
of time exploring the story. You work twelve to fourteen
hour shifts, part of a team, and your whole job
is to target social media users and engage them in scams.
You have a quota, and your quota in at least
a couple of cases was twenty five thousand US dollars
per day. Holy crapty, scam people to that level.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
That's so many people, or.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
It's one person with a lot of money, it's you
know what, you find one lonely guy.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, one lonely guy one, or a small group of
just lonely humans that happen to have that kind of
money or have good enough credit to take out a
line or something.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
It's almost like the free to play apps, where you
know the entire calculus of building those apps is to
engage in cycles of addictive behavior, right, and then know
that sure ninety percent of people are just going to
put it down or they'll never play past the free part. Yeah,
ten percent or nine percent will play a little, and
(20:54):
then you're one percent, the so called whale is going
to just open their wallet because they need more. I
don't know, what's the thing you get They need more
gold to boggins or whatever they call their currency game.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Money for their cat's health. Oh wait, what, that's a.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Whole different thing. Okay, they've got to crush their candies, right, Yeah, yeah,
that sounds like a weird euphemism, but yes, yes, so
they have to, like you're saying, man, they either get
a collection of people who are paying a little into
a scam or get got a bit before they can
extricate themselves, and then they want to get the whales.
(21:34):
And they do this not because they're bad people, but
because they have physical consequences, possibly fatal consequences if they
don't play the game. This would have been so baffling
to law enforcement of decades past.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to imagine other versions of organized crime,
at least depictions that I've seen in fiction or something
I've read about inside the US, where there's that level
of a quota that you've got of money to make.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Ooh, I got one. I got to pitch call in
telephone sex lines. Okay, you could do the same kind
of things.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
You have to be on the phone providing services for
x number of you know, hours a day or minutes
a day or something and if you don't, then your
pay gets docked or something. Yeah, I could see, or you.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Could get beaten up because maybe you are in a
situation where there is a pimp controlling you. H And
that's one of the side gigs you're required to do,
Like when some people sex workers were forced into doing
webcam shows. Yes, so that could totally happen with telephone lines. Yep.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
No, yeah, I can totally see that. You can see
that in that same way, even just see. I think
about human trafficking mostly when it comes to that stuff.
I don't think about like the drug trade. You have
to sell X number of bags or whatever.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Yeah, I don't know. Sure, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Sorry, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
The drug game has done so much for the metric
system in the United States, and I feel like we
need to brag about that more often.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Also, we talked about this, right, I tell you the
McGruff guy got arrested, scruff ruff McGruff.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
It's a drug dog, Scruff McGruff, right is it? Scruff McGruff, Chicago, Illinois,
six oh six five.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Okay, Well, you guys are sellouts. I was never on
a first name basis with him. Right, Okay, that's a
good note. That's Dylan's my accountabill of Buddy. So the
McGruff guy, Yeah, I got arrested for excuse me, the
actor playing McGruff because it's not a real anthropomorphic dog.
(23:47):
The actor playing McGruff got arrested for a massive amount
of cannabis. Oh he got sixteen years for one thousand
pot plants and twenty seven weapons, including his grenade launcher.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Oh dude, we really.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Didn't talk about this.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Maybe we did, but I don't think we got into.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
The special It was back in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah, I yeah, even scruff is like, hey, kids, don't worry.
Weed's not a drug anymore.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
A grenade launchers are cool. So that's McGruff the crime dog.
And how do we get there, Oh yeah, because we're
talking about these online scams. Yes, yes, yes, So one
of the scams is pretty much kind of like a
like a honeypot thing, but the digital version, and they
(24:43):
call it the pig butchering scam. They pose as a
love interest to entice you know, the rube or the
mark into a fraudulent investment scheme. And that works. Yeah,
because people are lonely, you know, we always hear. It's
even now it's the point where it's a kind of
sad stand up comedy trope. Right the mail order bride. Yeah,
(25:05):
found love online half a world away, and she'll get
to me or he'll get to me just as soon
as we swart out a few things, and I'm gonna
help pay for them.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah, like customs thinks things that I need in order
to get out of the country to you to finally
make it to you.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Also, will you help my family? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Well, and yeah, and if you if you're a good
person and you actually care about this other person that
is a fiction on the other end of the line.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Who gets you? Who is the first person who really
listened to your bullsh.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Well, who will spend time with you right right and
pay attention to you. It's just that is an insidious
and uh.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
And it works, and it just evolves with technology, you
know what I mean, Because before there were computers, people
were doing that with letters in the post. You know,
Dearest Samantha, h y to touch you, heaven, the flesh
and person, you angelic voice to soothe me to sleep.
(26:05):
Yet the war has been rough in my country, and
the postmaster generally says, I shall be able to send
no more letters unless I pay the Duke the blood ransom.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yes, of seven and ninety two dollars exactly check please,
I was.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Hoping you were going to say, shillings the blooms good
to require two forms of identification social Security card.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
If you've got it.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Yeah, blood type list of your fears would be nice.
So this is I mean, we're we're making light of it,
but it is a real brutal and dangerous thing. And
I think this also gives an opportunity to exercise some empathy, right,
because I you know, I've fallen for to the the
allure of watching, Oh a scammer gets pooned. Right? You know,
(26:57):
I tricked this scammer into doing this silly thing.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I love watching scammers get pomed.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
I did too, But more and more I'm thinking, what
if these folks are not there consentually? What if they're.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Forced to do this? Okay, I get so.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Now, am I making fun of someone that is going
to get the snot beat out of them no matter what?
Oh no, that's a very inhumane thing to do.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah, that is true. The things the ones I like
that I've seen before is one particular British dude. I
think that we'll get into the systems, like there's so many.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Cameras, the camera of the person at the call center.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Well yeah, the entire call center, right, And often what
he'll do is focus on the manager, like identifying the
manager and getting information on the manager and just going
after that one person via you know, through whoever he's
talking makes more sense, Yeah, and I appreciate that, But
even then that manager might be caught up in the
same thing.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
And I like I do. I still like seeing scammers
who are consensually scamming is a lifestyle, sort of like
the four to one nine boys, the four to one
nine scammers Nigeria. Yeah, that's consensual. It's sort of even
a glorification of a lifestyle. And I love seeing the
pranks where, for instance, the person who's supposed to be
(28:15):
being scammed keeps making increased request too, like I'd love
to can you help me out so that I know
it's you. Can you get Harry Potter tattooed on you?
Just so I could verify this, if you don't mind,
If you don't mind, so this, Oh.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Wait, there's one more type thing. You've got to go
watch if you if you can right now, and it's
a series.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Oh man, I.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
See, I don't have the specific needs, but it is
there's at least one woman who will just frustrate the
ever living crap out of scammers by keeping them on
the phone and confused for an elongated period of time.
I'm sorry, it makes me happy.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
And the word for this online is called scam baiting,
so you can check out things like four to one
nine eater dot com. Oh anyway, just remember we're bringing
this up because in these cases, these folks who are
doing this while as a crime, they are forced to
do it, they're enslaved to do it, and this, you know,
(29:15):
it's horrifying to read the examples of people who said, yeah,
I had to fake a relationship with someone online and
take money they probably didn't have because I need to
make twenty five grand a day. Some of the people
who are telling these stories also, you know, remove their
clothing and show the scars that they got from being
(29:36):
beaten after not meeting quotas gosh.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
And it really sucks because if there was no money
in it, it wouldn't be happening. And if we could
find a way to prevent or educate or yeah, there's
some way to get it to at least fall below
profitable levels. Right, there are ways to do that.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
There's got to be to de incentivize. The problem is
it seems like a lot of people in control don't
want it to stop. I'll just say that this takes
this shuay Coco, how do we get to this situation?
Speaker 2 (30:08):
You know? Yeah? Shwey Coco is another one that we
mentioned in that listener mail episode, just like KK Party. Yeah,
it's just it's another one of these locations that is
doing a very similar thing, but they've upped their game.
Not only are they just keeping people, you know, in
one location attempting to run these scams. These this place,
(30:32):
shwaey Coco is also a casino or casinos. Are there
hotels for other people to come in and either function
temporarily or to bring people in as like a tourist
area of karate spots.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Yeah. Yeah, and it's also the non consensual honed over
twenty thousand scam slaves. Wow.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
With that, we're going to take a quick break here
a word from our sponsors and return for more.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
And we've returned to Myanmar. Here's what happened without getting
too into the weeds on the development here. Look, Hwei
Coco is the most prominent example of a larger swath
of what are called special economic zones. They're in Laos,
(31:25):
they're in Cambodia, they're in Myanmar. Some are ostensibly related
to the Silk Road two point zero, the Belton Road
initiative that we talked about in the past, but now
pretty much all of them are crime hubs. And it's
it's because back in the day, Chinese triads had a
plan and they work hand in hand with the Chinese
(31:47):
government and other governments, and they said, we got to
get in on this special economic zone stuff. We're going
to launder our money to develop these areas. We've got
permission from the governments that say, hey, it's legal to
own a casino here. And then we're gonna get all
those tourists, all those Chinese tourists are gonna come in
(32:10):
and visit. They're gonna play at our casino, and they're
gonna lose, because that's how casinos work. And then you know,
if we can't do another side hustle, then we'll do that.
But guys, we're printing money off these roobs it's.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Like Disney Springs but for organized crime.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Yes, yeah, that's a very good way to put it.
In Cambodia alone, these crime networks have taken in fifty
to one hundred thousand people in Theanmar. The number could
be two times higher, the double could be treble, it
could be three times higher. We don't know because because
when the criminals started doing this as part of the
(32:48):
casino grift, which you know, have you been to Vegas, folks,
You've seen how that game works.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
You've at least watched Showtime at some point in your life,
right right.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
You've seen Sino.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yes, yes, it.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Is not the most creative name for a movie, but
you know it's an amazing film. It is an amazing film,
and the title is accurate. So these guys didn't know
the pandemic was coming. That's where stuff messed up. They
wanted to have online gambling operations and then they wanted
to have in person casinos. This was something we talked
(33:22):
about also previously with a Thailand's serial killer. What remember
the female serial killer? Yes, it was killing people for gambling.
Online gambling that was run. Part of that was run
through Chinese triads. Holy lord. So the story. You know,
there's some red string.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Here, that's the poisoner.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Yeah. Yeah, she was poisoning pretty much everyone. Yeah, and
she was, and she was sleeping with law enforcement. Yeah,
married to him and then ex married to him, but
still sleeping with him. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
And it was some ungodly no amount of money that
was spent every day on online yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
It was a very dangerous situation. That person had a
very tragic story. Please check out our episode on it,
but gird thyself. So, these Chinese triad groups, very good
at crime, not great at predicting the COVID pandemic. As
COVID hit and all of a sudden, they don't have
their Chinese tourist base. They don't have their labor force either,
(34:28):
because they were using, you know, people associated with the triad.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
So what do they do? Just pack up and call
it today. Well we tried.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Oh yeah, they don't try. They tryad So all right,
thank you for the rimshot. So around twenty twenty one,
something else happened amid the pandemic. The government of China
launched this huge campaign that might give a little bit
of deja vu to some of our listeners here in
the States. And other parts of the world. The government
(35:00):
reached out to Chinese nationals who are living all around
South Asia, all these different countries and forced them to
return to China, to return to Chinese soil by hook
or by crook. The penalties were super harsh. So now
the criminals have lost their tourist base, they lost their
labor base, and they start thinking and they start brainstorming
(35:23):
until an evil light bulb pops in their head and
they say, Hey, why don't we just lie to people
about the kind of job we'll give them. Why don't
we make sure they're here illegally so they don't have
any rights, And why don't we just kill them if
they don't do what we want them to do?
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (35:44):
And that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Yes, that is exactly what happened. It's horrific that that's
all going on while there's still a civil war raging.
While there, you know, there's also the fear imagining being
an individual living anywhere near one of the borders, right, Yeah,
And just the fear and uncertainty and struggle, all of
(36:06):
it just going on every day, just I don't know,
dealing with this extra layer, this extra other thing it's
almost like you can see why the world kind of
turns away a little bit because there's so much going on.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
Yeah, and it's not a simple story. Yeah, and especially
here in the West, we've been taught to prioritize simple stories.
Tell me this problem in five minutes, Tell me this
problem in three minutes. So I have two minutes to
hear the story about that funny dog running for mayor.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
It helps so much when that dog runs for mayor,
just makes us all feel better.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
It's just gosh, I feel I've got a couple of
friends who are reporters, or I've got one friend in
particular here in Atlanta who is a anchor and field reporter.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Those segues, Man, those transitions are tough.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
You know.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
I feel bad for people every time, you know, you
turn on the news at the wrong moment. Yeah, and
you can see they're really painful. They're like forty five
thousand dead. Roughly one third of the hands have been
found at this point. Now, next up, fuh in a Burrito,
(37:24):
We'll talk live with the eventor of the fa Rito.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Ben Bowling.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
No, No, somebody beat it. Oh yeah, text it right right.
It was a good idea just means it was a
good idea. But this is again a It's a terrifying
mix of ingredients. It's an evil soup. It's simmering, it's
growing to a boil even tonight, and it will probably
continue to grow and step with the chaos. I mean, Matt,
(37:49):
you and I have researched a lot of this separately too.
What do you think is it too cynical to say
this appears set to continue?
Speaker 2 (37:58):
It does seem like it's going to continue. I've been
into the diplomat, which is one of the sources. The
Diplomat's great if they've got some pretty dire stories coming
out of me and mar right now about other things,
other factors that are happening as well. If we think
about some of the extreme weather that the world, not
just you know, the US, not just other like the Caribbean.
(38:19):
But that's you know, maybe some of the most stuff
we see here is the most top of mind. But
the world is experiencing weather disasters right now in mass
and when you've got all these other unrest situations happening
in your country like me and mar is experiencing, then
a pretty simple flooding becomes an exmanitarian crisis exactly exponentially
(38:42):
worse than it would have been if you know, there
was some stability going on and they were just writing
about unprecedented disaster there in the diplomat as you know,
military fighting drags on, and that was from November eighth
of this year.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Yeah, yeah, and unfortunately it's still continuus. We want to
be able to say everything will be warm and fuzzy
and there's a variety future ahead, and maybe part of
that is true, but how far away is that future? Now?
Speaker 2 (39:11):
You know?
Speaker 3 (39:11):
We look the people again. We always have to say this.
The people living in Mianmar obviously want the violence to end.
International groups want to get in there and help people.
The media wants to share these stories. But at this
point it's also fair to ask, what about the people
at the top, not just the criminal organizations, but the
(39:33):
governments that clearly clearly support them. Do they want this
to end? Why aren't they stopping it?
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Why don't you write into us and tell us what
you think? You can call us, You can find us
on social media, you can email us. Here is how
to get in touch. First on social media. Check out
conspiracy stuff. That's our handle in most places on Instagram
and TikTok. We are conspiracy stuff show. We also have
a phone number.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
That's right, the rumors are true. You can contact us
directly through a telephonic device of your choice, as long
as it's a telephone, the number one eight three three STDWYTK.
You'll hear a familiar voice and then a beep like
so beep and when that happens, you're off to the races.
(40:24):
You've got three minutes. They are yours. Go ham, go nuts,
go bananas, go one other type of food that's used
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the road for this, and we sure appreciate it if
you could try to do the following.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
I give yourself a cool nickname and in the message,
let us know if we can use your name and
message on the air. If you've got more to say
than can fit in a voicemail, and you don't like
social media, but you still want to chat with us,
you want to give us your opinion, or you know,
tell us another story we should cover. Why not instead
send us a good old fashioned email.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
We are the entities that read every piece of correspond
since we receive be well aware yet unafraid. Sometimes the
void writes back, join us here in the dark conspiracy
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Speaker 2 (41:27):
Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production
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From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
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Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
Our colleague Nol is adventuring still.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
But will return soon. They call me Ben. We're joined
as always with our super producer Dylan the Tennessee pow Fagan.
Most importantly, you are you. You are here. That makes
this the stuff they don't want you to know a
bit of a special case, fellow conspiracy realist. This is
part two of a two part series on the troubled
(00:55):
Border of meanmarn Honestly, Matt, troubled is vastly understating the case.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, there's so many issues here that we've been going
over thus far, and we're about to get into a
lot more of them. And I'm just looking at some
of the some of the news reporting just over this
year since April with the civil war stuff that's been
going on, and then connecting it to the powerful forces
that are able to operate, some of the military forces
(01:24):
as well as some of the resistance forces that are
out there that are battling each other all across Meenmar,
especially near the borders, and a lot of that money
that's funding this stuff is coming from the crime.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
One hundred percent. We also know that people who are
being enslaved in these certain camps that we're going to
talk about, we know they're coming from around the world.
This is an international conspiracy. So please please please tune
into episode one of this series, the first part to
get a handle on what we're talking about. And now
(01:59):
without the ad part two of the Troubled Border of Meanmar,
can we talk.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
About the somewhat strange border that India has with me
and Maar, Because Bangladesh is, like, I don't know, tucked
in between this tiny little piece of land that sends
India around the top of Bangladesh and around to the
(02:32):
side and then wraps around where it actually borders with
me and Maar, and it is it's so interesting, And
I was wrong when I looked at it. Initially I
thought that Bangladesh actually had this very large border with Myanmar,
but no, that's actually India. Yeah, it just wraps around.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Like a thousand miles.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah, it's huge.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
It's huge, and it's because it's huge. Again, it's porous
and the ethnic groups residing there live on either side
of the border. Previously, previously on India, the Modi administration
had said, Okay, we're gonna give you a free movement.
We understand that everybody living in these villages, you have
(03:15):
close knit kinshit you have more in common with yourselves
than you have with us running India's government. So you know,
free movement anyone on either side of the border. Here,
if you live here, you can go ten miles into
the other country. You don't need a visa because it's
you know, you're probably going to work, You're probably going
(03:35):
to go visit your mom or something. Just pass through,
say hey to Robert, and go on your merry way.
But then with the Civil War, meandmar began printing, refugees
flooding into India at a rate, and the rural areas
simply couldn't take. I mean, imagine if folks, tell us
where you live, and give us your Social Security number,
(03:58):
but tell us where you live, and imagine imagine your
town cut in half. If Atlanta all of a sudden
was part us and then part a different country A
what country would it be? And see who would be
running to which side, because if it's a better country
than the US, we're all going to go. If someone's like, hey,
(04:21):
south of I twenty is now Switzerland and that happens
in ten days, what do you happen? You know what
I mean? Anybody who ends up south of twenty inside
two eighty five, congratulations, you are now a Swiss citizen.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
WHOA I would do it? Yeah? Do you think we
can make that happen? I want to go there.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
I'm South Swiss is what we call ourselves, south switzz Yeah, yep,
I don't know. It's a question. And when things were
going so horribly, Arai and me and mar Ala, these
people were asking selves the same question. They went over
to India, or they were not allowed to go to
India because the government decided to build a wall.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
They built that wall, baby, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
They ended the free movement program, they built the wall.
They cited national security concerns because of the civil war,
which makes sense.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
They're those are real concerns.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
These are valid, but they're not necessarily exclusive. You have
real concerns and ulterior motives as well, you know, like, oh,
never mind, I don't know if I want to say
it like you know how like, yes, the cop might
have to pull somebody over for speeding, but it also
helps them with their quota. Yes, so those are two valid.
(05:48):
There's valid We'll see if we keep that one.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
I get it. I get what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
And not all law enforcement needs a quota obviously. Yeah,
I'm just thinking through cons actually there. It's it's sticky,
right because locals in this northeastern part of India in particular,
they say there's an ulterior motive. They say, you know what,
life here is rough in northeast India, And so what
(06:17):
we think is happening is the government is ignoring the
real problem and blaming migrants and refugees as a convenient
deflection away from addressing other more serious and subsidtuente problems.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Weird, gosh, that feels some deja vu, right, Yeah, something
resonating with me there.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Oh, look at Dylan's not Actually.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Can't put my finger on it, but it sounds familiar.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I wish I brought my magic eight ball, which is.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Cocaine signs point two.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
I've never tried it. I think I would age out
of that experience.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
But me and I think that's really good.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
I think so for it being so unpopular in college, Yeah,
is that what it was? I don't know. I just
think it was never the demographic yes us yay, gosh,
Still we're such dudley do rights. But we know, you know,
we know that people can be opportunistic with this kind
of stuff. And right now, eighty thousand refugees and asylum
(07:23):
seekers from Meamar live in India. Of those eighty thousand,
the vast majority came over since the twenty twenty one coup.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
So there are similar instances in Thailand and of course Laos.
Just recently meamr national was brutally beaten to death in
Thailand and there's a flood of methamphetamine as you know,
coming through that area. We see the civil wars bringing
refugees death and chaos, and other countries try to do
(07:53):
the right This is really important, folks. Other countries try
to do the right thing in assisting refugees, but they're
under no lea real legal compulsion to do so. That's
why when speaking of deja vu, you see a situation
with a lot of potential refugees, at least is indicated
by their Google searches. Every country you want to apply
(08:15):
to does not have to take you. It is their decision.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, so just like make yourself an amazing candidate on paper, Yes.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Ye do, take all the tricks you learn from social
media and just fake it till you make it exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, it's true. They do not have to do that.
But being you know, it's it's like the right thing
to do. But bringing in a bunch of new people
that need you know, the resources that you have on
offer as a country in a region, it is a
strain on everything when you bring in fifty thousand people
or more.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah. Yeah, pretty much anywhere bringing that many people.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
But again it it's the right thing to do. There's
no legal thing on you know, a country's next and
you have to do this, but it is probably the
right thing to do.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah. And the phrase we'll hear often by different countries
is eligible for refugee status. You have to apply for
this position. We will consider whether the way I was
about to say, the way they get you, but this
is true. The way that you calculate this stuff as
a country is you say, of course we accept refugees.
(09:27):
We're the good guys. This is the right thing to do,
and we do that as long as someone is eligible
for refugee status. You know what I mean, just answer
a few questions first and don't be this because we
hate those guys.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, it's really specific questions about Pokemon, like the specific
Pokemon in your preferences, in that kind of thing. And
then they're like, oh, I don't know, this is a
Jigglypuff guy. I don't like that. Oh that guy's way
too much into.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
It's bizarre metaphors, right, like the weird esoteric part of
the sat or the act. And then there's also stuff
where you can clearly tell they're not over the country
as a whole. It's not over its ex girlfriend. Why not?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
And they're like, okay, so race, religion, nationality. That checks out.
You are from a persecuted religious minority. What do you
do you know, Deborah? I do do you know Karen?
Who all right let them in? But you're the last
one for today, buddy, Karen.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
They don't even know that I know you.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
I just said no, Jason. I mean, it does seem
that arbitrary, right, We're having a little bit of levity
to it, but it is a serious problem. And because
of all this this mix of stuff right, the surge
and refugees, the wilful ignorance of the wider world, and
the strange moves at the border of Meamr with all
(11:03):
these other countries. Because of that, we see chaos and war,
the breakdown rule of law, which means we see crime.
Crime is so hot in MEMR right now.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Woo buddy, Yes it yes it is. I was channeling
my mom and told me there for a second. Yes
it is.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Yes, yeah, they shout out Langston David.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Oh, it's so funny. Yeah, And we're talking everything. And
one of the biggest issues here is that it's not
it's not like it's me and mar based crime syndicates.
Often sometimes it is, but not always. Often it's a
cartel that just moves into the territory like we were
talking about, because they can get away with it a
little easier.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Yes, yeah, we're gonna see why too, because they might
function in partnership with the local warlord or military group,
or secessionist group or Gerria group. I'm naming all the groups.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
You're gonna get paid if you let us operate right here,
you're gonna get your cut. Just let us make our
money exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Migrants from around the region. A lot of other countries,
like from Thailand, from the Philippines, from Sri Lanka, from India,
from Bangladesh, picture a country that is not China in
that region, someone there has been taken in with a
very strange, specific form of human trafficking. All the other
(12:27):
regular evil forms of human trafficking are real, are true,
and do continue there. But a lot of folks are
being kidnapped by these foreign domestic criminal partnerships and they're
being forced to scam targets in Europe and North America
online from compounds that are built and run for this
(12:49):
purpose by triads, by the Chinese organized crime. And we're
talking thousands and thousands and thousands of people, we don't
know how many exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
And we're talking about those weird, seemingly normal looking apartment
complexes where some of this stuff is taking place, where
people just live there and they are forced to do
this kind of work.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Yeah, it's similar to how slavery happens in the Middle East.
People from Afar right, are lured in with these promises
of a high paying job. You know, this is your
chance to get out of a really tough environment in
your town. You know, in Kenya and the Philippines or Malaysia,
you can provide for your family. Just work with us
(13:33):
for a few years and then you sadly, the dream
is often pitched as and then you can go back
to your home country and you'll have the capital to
start your own business. It's just a life changing thing.
But when they get there, if they have a visa
or a passport, it is taken from them, at least
in the Middle East. And if they just have a
job offer in this area of the world, in Southeast Asia,
(13:56):
then they don't have a legal protection. They're smuggled across
the border, like to the point where you get across
a river somewhere and you just got your suitcase, and
then the person who's supposed to be helping you says,
all right, run to the van. There's no customs, and
customs can be a pain in the ass, But if
you've ever had across a place without it, you're gonna
(14:16):
miss it. You're gonna miss that at least one person
is checking in on you in a way that is
not run to the van.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Well, yeah, because you know, well, if they're checking me,
they must be checking everybody. And there's a sense of safety.
Perhaps that comes with that, like sure, somebody's got an
eye on all of us. They're coming through.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Someone has decided there are rules to this road. That's it,
you know what I mean. It's not a free for all.
But yeah, these groups often don't have any rule of law.
They're outside the reach of law enforcement. The media is
not allowed. Civil society by which mean nonprofits and stuff.
They're not allowed. None of this of that. Doctors without
(15:01):
border's fancy stuff. It's just run to the van or
will kill you. There was a guy Jason Tower for USIP,
which is the United States Institute of Peace, my favorite name.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
I have read some stuff from. We've talked about these names.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Yeah, but they have a great point here. They say,
this is the United Nations of scamming. In meandmar scammers
are trafficked in as forced labor from all these different countries.
And we read this thing for the Pulitzer Center by
these two awesome Pulitzer grantees and journalists or three Alistair McReady,
(15:43):
Allegra Mendelssohn and Haintar. And these these folks tell just
heroin stories of firsthand experiences from from people who have
been trafficked as part of these scam slave farms.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yeah, and a lot of that poorest Hime Island me
and mar Border. Well, one of the major hubs there
is that town Miawatei, one of the really important ones
because that's one of the ones that militaries are constantly
coming in and out of trying to gain control.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Of, right because it's a profit center exactly. We're going
to pause here for a word from our sponsors and.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
We'll be back, and we're back.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
We don't know how many people have been victimized by this.
We simply don't. A lot of these folks exist off
the grid. They're the kind of people the world ignores.
But we have some indicators, some data indicators, that are terrified.
We know that pretty much everybody who is attempting to
(16:52):
prevent human trafficking in this part of the world, they
have all clocked a huge rise in trafficking situations. So
it's a tip of the Iceberg situation, at least that's
how geraldine An Start puts it.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Well, that makes a ton of sense, because you've got
to imagine only a tiny percentage of human trafficking victims
are ever able to escape enough to raise.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
A flag r right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
And to like seek help in any form or you know,
just literally in any way.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
And many don't have any of that kind of social
safety net to begin.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
With, exactly right. I mean, and I'm talking even getting
to a car to get down the road far enough
to actually get help from someone or an emergency service
like it's you were if you're in one of these situations,
you were potentially just stuck there.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
And it sounds very very easy, damnably easy to say, well,
if it were me in that situation, I would figure
something out. I would, you know, I am straight up
mcgiver and Jason barr all in one. I'm a sober
James Bond. I'm James Bond if he wasn't drunk. That
is not true. That is not what's going to happen.
(18:09):
That is a cinema that is perhaps fooling us because
their works of fiction, Your life is tightly controlled. You're beaten.
They beat the crap out of you every day. They
control you through fear, they control you through hunger. They
may get you hooked on drugs, yep, which is another
you know from our episode about how you would control
(18:29):
someone with an asset with esp Oh, yeah, that's one
of the best ways.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Right well, and especially when we're talking about crackdowns on
borders the way we're mentioning the border with India. If
they're controlling your passport and you are physically able to
get to a border crossing and you don't have a passport,
maybe someone you know takes mercy on you and says, Okay,
we'll at least consider your status.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Or you're an asylum seeker, yeah something.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
But you know, it's also likely that you don't. You
aren't given that benefit of the doubt if you just
show up there.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Yeah, And that's why. Look, also, this industry is worth
billions of dollars just online scamming people. It's not going
to slow down. The rule of law isn't functioning, and
the money is too good, so much so that in
some of these compounds or some of these towns like
you mentioned, Matt, the conflicting groups aren't fighting for their ideology.
(19:24):
They're fighting for control of the money maker, right of
that profit center. And the places have names like Family Park.
That Family Park alone has two thousand workers estimated in
this situation, or the KK Park zone, which is huge,
and this is where our Pulitzer journalists spend a lot
(19:45):
of time exploring the story. You work twelve to fourteen
hour shifts, part of a team, and your whole job
is to target social media users and engage them in scams.
You have a quota, and your quota in at least
a couple of cases was twenty five thousand US dollars
per day. Holy crapty, scam people to that level.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
That's so many people, or.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
It's one person with a lot of money, it's you
know what, you find one lonely guy.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, one lonely guy one, or a small group of
just lonely humans that happen to have that kind of
money or have good enough credit to take out a
line or something.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
It's almost like the free to play apps, where you
know the entire calculus of building those apps is to
engage in cycles of addictive behavior, right, and then know
that sure ninety percent of people are just going to
put it down or they'll never play past the free part. Yeah,
ten percent or nine percent will play a little, and
(20:54):
then you're one percent, the so called whale is going
to just open their wallet because they need more. I
don't know, what's the thing you get They need more
gold to boggins or whatever they call their currency game.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Money for their cat's health. Oh wait, what, that's a.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Whole different thing. Okay, they've got to crush their candies, right, Yeah, yeah,
that sounds like a weird euphemism, but yes, yes, so
they have to, like you're saying, man, they either get
a collection of people who are paying a little into
a scam or get got a bit before they can
extricate themselves, and then they want to get the whales.
(21:34):
And they do this not because they're bad people, but
because they have physical consequences, possibly fatal consequences if they
don't play the game. This would have been so baffling
to law enforcement of decades past.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to imagine other versions of organized crime,
at least depictions that I've seen in fiction or something
I've read about inside the US, where there's that level
of a quota that you've got of money to make.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Ooh, I got one. I got to pitch call in
telephone sex lines. Okay, you could do the same kind
of things.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
You have to be on the phone providing services for
x number of you know, hours a day or minutes
a day or something and if you don't, then your
pay gets docked or something. Yeah, I could see, or you.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Could get beaten up because maybe you are in a
situation where there is a pimp controlling you. H And
that's one of the side gigs you're required to do,
Like when some people sex workers were forced into doing
webcam shows. Yes, so that could totally happen with telephone lines. Yep.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
No, yeah, I can totally see that. You can see
that in that same way, even just see. I think
about human trafficking mostly when it comes to that stuff.
I don't think about like the drug trade. You have
to sell X number of bags or whatever.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Yeah, I don't know. Sure, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Sorry, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
The drug game has done so much for the metric
system in the United States, and I feel like we
need to brag about that more often.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Also, we talked about this, right, I tell you the
McGruff guy got arrested, scruff ruff McGruff.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
It's a drug dog, Scruff McGruff, right is it? Scruff McGruff, Chicago, Illinois,
six oh six five.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Okay, Well, you guys are sellouts. I was never on
a first name basis with him. Right, Okay, that's a
good note. That's Dylan's my accountabill of Buddy. So the
McGruff guy, Yeah, I got arrested for excuse me, the
actor playing McGruff because it's not a real anthropomorphic dog.
(23:47):
The actor playing McGruff got arrested for a massive amount
of cannabis. Oh he got sixteen years for one thousand
pot plants and twenty seven weapons, including his grenade launcher.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Oh dude, we really.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Didn't talk about this.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Maybe we did, but I don't think we got into.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
The special It was back in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah, I yeah, even scruff is like, hey, kids, don't worry.
Weed's not a drug anymore.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
A grenade launchers are cool. So that's McGruff the crime dog.
And how do we get there, Oh yeah, because we're
talking about these online scams. Yes, yes, yes, So one
of the scams is pretty much kind of like a
like a honeypot thing, but the digital version, and they
(24:43):
call it the pig butchering scam. They pose as a
love interest to entice you know, the rube or the
mark into a fraudulent investment scheme. And that works. Yeah,
because people are lonely, you know, we always hear. It's
even now it's the point where it's a kind of
sad stand up comedy trope. Right the mail order bride. Yeah,
(25:05):
found love online half a world away, and she'll get
to me or he'll get to me just as soon
as we swart out a few things, and I'm gonna
help pay for them.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah, like customs thinks things that I need in order
to get out of the country to you to finally
make it to you.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Also, will you help my family? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Well, and yeah, and if you if you're a good
person and you actually care about this other person that
is a fiction on the other end of the line.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Who gets you? Who is the first person who really
listened to your bullsh.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Well, who will spend time with you right right and
pay attention to you. It's just that is an insidious
and uh.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
And it works, and it just evolves with technology, you
know what I mean, Because before there were computers, people
were doing that with letters in the post. You know,
Dearest Samantha, h y to touch you, heaven, the flesh
and person, you angelic voice to soothe me to sleep.
(26:05):
Yet the war has been rough in my country, and
the postmaster generally says, I shall be able to send
no more letters unless I pay the Duke the blood ransom.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yes, of seven and ninety two dollars exactly check please,
I was.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Hoping you were going to say, shillings the blooms good
to require two forms of identification social Security card.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
If you've got it.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Yeah, blood type list of your fears would be nice.
So this is I mean, we're we're making light of it,
but it is a real brutal and dangerous thing. And
I think this also gives an opportunity to exercise some empathy, right,
because I you know, I've fallen for to the the
allure of watching, Oh a scammer gets pooned. Right? You know,
(26:57):
I tricked this scammer into doing this silly thing.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I love watching scammers get pomed.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
I did too, But more and more I'm thinking, what
if these folks are not there consentually? What if they're.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Forced to do this? Okay, I get so.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Now, am I making fun of someone that is going
to get the snot beat out of them no matter what?
Oh no, that's a very inhumane thing to do.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah, that is true. The things the ones I like
that I've seen before is one particular British dude. I
think that we'll get into the systems, like there's so many.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Cameras, the camera of the person at the call center.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Well yeah, the entire call center, right, And often what
he'll do is focus on the manager, like identifying the
manager and getting information on the manager and just going
after that one person via you know, through whoever he's
talking makes more sense, Yeah, and I appreciate that, But
even then that manager might be caught up in the
same thing.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
And I like I do. I still like seeing scammers
who are consensually scamming is a lifestyle, sort of like
the four to one nine boys, the four to one
nine scammers Nigeria. Yeah, that's consensual. It's sort of even
a glorification of a lifestyle. And I love seeing the
pranks where, for instance, the person who's supposed to be
(28:15):
being scammed keeps making increased request too, like I'd love
to can you help me out so that I know
it's you. Can you get Harry Potter tattooed on you?
Just so I could verify this, if you don't mind,
If you don't mind, so this, Oh.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Wait, there's one more type thing. You've got to go
watch if you if you can right now, and it's
a series.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Oh man, I.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
See, I don't have the specific needs, but it is
there's at least one woman who will just frustrate the
ever living crap out of scammers by keeping them on
the phone and confused for an elongated period of time.
I'm sorry, it makes me happy.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
And the word for this online is called scam baiting,
so you can check out things like four to one
nine eater dot com. Oh anyway, just remember we're bringing
this up because in these cases, these folks who are
doing this while as a crime, they are forced to
do it, they're enslaved to do it, and this, you know,
(29:15):
it's horrifying to read the examples of people who said, yeah,
I had to fake a relationship with someone online and
take money they probably didn't have because I need to
make twenty five grand a day. Some of the people
who are telling these stories also, you know, remove their
clothing and show the scars that they got from being
(29:36):
beaten after not meeting quotas gosh.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
And it really sucks because if there was no money
in it, it wouldn't be happening. And if we could
find a way to prevent or educate or yeah, there's
some way to get it to at least fall below
profitable levels. Right, there are ways to do that.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
There's got to be to de incentivize. The problem is
it seems like a lot of people in control don't
want it to stop. I'll just say that this takes
this shuay Coco, how do we get to this situation?
Speaker 2 (30:08):
You know? Yeah? Shwey Coco is another one that we
mentioned in that listener mail episode, just like KK Party. Yeah,
it's just it's another one of these locations that is
doing a very similar thing, but they've upped their game.
Not only are they just keeping people, you know, in
one location attempting to run these scams. These this place,
(30:32):
shwaey Coco is also a casino or casinos. Are there
hotels for other people to come in and either function
temporarily or to bring people in as like a tourist
area of karate spots.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Yeah. Yeah, and it's also the non consensual honed over
twenty thousand scam slaves. Wow.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
With that, we're going to take a quick break here
a word from our sponsors and return for more.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
And we've returned to Myanmar. Here's what happened without getting
too into the weeds on the development here. Look, Hwei
Coco is the most prominent example of a larger swath
of what are called special economic zones. They're in Laos,
(31:25):
they're in Cambodia, they're in Myanmar. Some are ostensibly related
to the Silk Road two point zero, the Belton Road
initiative that we talked about in the past, but now
pretty much all of them are crime hubs. And it's
it's because back in the day, Chinese triads had a
plan and they work hand in hand with the Chinese
(31:47):
government and other governments, and they said, we got to
get in on this special economic zone stuff. We're going
to launder our money to develop these areas. We've got
permission from the governments that say, hey, it's legal to
own a casino here. And then we're gonna get all
those tourists, all those Chinese tourists are gonna come in
(32:10):
and visit. They're gonna play at our casino, and they're
gonna lose, because that's how casinos work. And then you know,
if we can't do another side hustle, then we'll do that.
But guys, we're printing money off these roobs it's.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Like Disney Springs but for organized crime.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Yes, yeah, that's a very good way to put it.
In Cambodia alone, these crime networks have taken in fifty
to one hundred thousand people in Theanmar. The number could
be two times higher, the double could be treble, it
could be three times higher. We don't know because because
when the criminals started doing this as part of the
(32:48):
casino grift, which you know, have you been to Vegas, folks,
You've seen how that game works.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
You've at least watched Showtime at some point in your life,
right right.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
You've seen Sino.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yes, yes, it.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Is not the most creative name for a movie, but
you know it's an amazing film. It is an amazing film,
and the title is accurate. So these guys didn't know
the pandemic was coming. That's where stuff messed up. They
wanted to have online gambling operations and then they wanted
to have in person casinos. This was something we talked
(33:22):
about also previously with a Thailand's serial killer. What remember
the female serial killer? Yes, it was killing people for gambling.
Online gambling that was run. Part of that was run
through Chinese triads. Holy lord. So the story. You know,
there's some red string.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Here, that's the poisoner.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Yeah. Yeah, she was poisoning pretty much everyone. Yeah, and
she was, and she was sleeping with law enforcement. Yeah,
married to him and then ex married to him, but
still sleeping with him. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
And it was some ungodly no amount of money that
was spent every day on online yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
It was a very dangerous situation. That person had a
very tragic story. Please check out our episode on it,
but gird thyself. So, these Chinese triad groups, very good
at crime, not great at predicting the COVID pandemic. As
COVID hit and all of a sudden, they don't have
their Chinese tourist base. They don't have their labor force either,
(34:28):
because they were using, you know, people associated with the triad.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
So what do they do? Just pack up and call
it today. Well we tried.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Oh yeah, they don't try. They tryad So all right,
thank you for the rimshot. So around twenty twenty one,
something else happened amid the pandemic. The government of China
launched this huge campaign that might give a little bit
of deja vu to some of our listeners here in
the States. And other parts of the world. The government
(35:00):
reached out to Chinese nationals who are living all around
South Asia, all these different countries and forced them to
return to China, to return to Chinese soil by hook
or by crook. The penalties were super harsh. So now
the criminals have lost their tourist base, they lost their
labor base, and they start thinking and they start brainstorming
(35:23):
until an evil light bulb pops in their head and
they say, Hey, why don't we just lie to people
about the kind of job we'll give them. Why don't
we make sure they're here illegally so they don't have
any rights, And why don't we just kill them if
they don't do what we want them to do?
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (35:44):
And that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Yes, that is exactly what happened. It's horrific that that's
all going on while there's still a civil war raging.
While there, you know, there's also the fear imagining being
an individual living anywhere near one of the borders, right, Yeah,
And just the fear and uncertainty and struggle, all of
(36:06):
it just going on every day, just I don't know,
dealing with this extra layer, this extra other thing it's
almost like you can see why the world kind of
turns away a little bit because there's so much going on.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
Yeah, and it's not a simple story. Yeah, and especially
here in the West, we've been taught to prioritize simple stories.
Tell me this problem in five minutes, Tell me this
problem in three minutes. So I have two minutes to
hear the story about that funny dog running for mayor.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
It helps so much when that dog runs for mayor,
just makes us all feel better.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
It's just gosh, I feel I've got a couple of
friends who are reporters, or I've got one friend in
particular here in Atlanta who is a anchor and field reporter.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Those segues, Man, those transitions are tough.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
You know.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
I feel bad for people every time, you know, you
turn on the news at the wrong moment. Yeah, and
you can see they're really painful. They're like forty five
thousand dead. Roughly one third of the hands have been
found at this point. Now, next up, fuh in a Burrito,
(37:24):
We'll talk live with the eventor of the fa Rito.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Ben Bowling.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
No, No, somebody beat it. Oh yeah, text it right right.
It was a good idea just means it was a
good idea. But this is again a It's a terrifying
mix of ingredients. It's an evil soup. It's simmering, it's
growing to a boil even tonight, and it will probably
continue to grow and step with the chaos. I mean, Matt,
(37:49):
you and I have researched a lot of this separately too.
What do you think is it too cynical to say
this appears set to continue?
Speaker 2 (37:58):
It does seem like it's going to continue. I've been
into the diplomat, which is one of the sources. The
Diplomat's great if they've got some pretty dire stories coming
out of me and mar right now about other things,
other factors that are happening as well. If we think
about some of the extreme weather that the world, not
just you know, the US, not just other like the Caribbean.
(38:19):
But that's you know, maybe some of the most stuff
we see here is the most top of mind. But
the world is experiencing weather disasters right now in mass
and when you've got all these other unrest situations happening
in your country like me and mar is experiencing, then
a pretty simple flooding becomes an exmanitarian crisis exactly exponentially
(38:42):
worse than it would have been if you know, there
was some stability going on and they were just writing
about unprecedented disaster there in the diplomat as you know,
military fighting drags on, and that was from November eighth
of this year.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Yeah, yeah, and unfortunately it's still continuus. We want to
be able to say everything will be warm and fuzzy
and there's a variety future ahead, and maybe part of
that is true, but how far away is that future? Now?
Speaker 2 (39:11):
You know?
Speaker 3 (39:11):
We look the people again. We always have to say this.
The people living in Mianmar obviously want the violence to end.
International groups want to get in there and help people.
The media wants to share these stories. But at this
point it's also fair to ask, what about the people
at the top, not just the criminal organizations, but the
(39:33):
governments that clearly clearly support them. Do they want this
to end? Why aren't they stopping it?
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Why don't you write into us and tell us what
you think? You can call us, You can find us
on social media, you can email us. Here is how
to get in touch. First on social media. Check out
conspiracy stuff. That's our handle in most places on Instagram
and TikTok. We are conspiracy stuff show. We also have
a phone number.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
That's right, the rumors are true. You can contact us
directly through a telephonic device of your choice, as long
as it's a telephone, the number one eight three three STDWYTK.
You'll hear a familiar voice and then a beep like
so beep and when that happens, you're off to the races.
(40:24):
You've got three minutes. They are yours. Go ham, go nuts,
go bananas, go one other type of food that's used
as a reference point. We've got a couple rules of
the road for this, and we sure appreciate it if
you could try to do the following.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
I give yourself a cool nickname and in the message,
let us know if we can use your name and
message on the air. If you've got more to say
than can fit in a voicemail, and you don't like
social media, but you still want to chat with us,
you want to give us your opinion, or you know,
tell us another story we should cover. Why not instead
send us a good old fashioned email.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
We are the entities that read every piece of correspond
since we receive be well aware yet unafraid. Sometimes the
void writes back, join us here in the dark conspiracy
at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production
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Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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