October 6, 2017 • 58 mins
The 1912 sinking of the Titanic left an indelible mark on Western culture, so it's no surprise that more than a decade later revisionists and fringe theorists continue to claim there's something more to the tragic story. Join Ben, Matt and Noel as they take a closer look at the true story of the Titanic.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. Welcome
(00:24):
back to the show. My name is Matt, my name
is no. They call me Ben. You are you? And
that makes this stuff they don't want you to know.
As always, we are joined by our super producer Tristan McNeil. Tristan,
do you want to wave to us? Okay, well, everybody
will just have to believe us when we say that
Tristan was indeed waving. Tristan just communicates in emoji's We
(00:46):
found out it's it's pretty intense. Like there's three that
he uses. There's the oh face emogi yeah, there's the
hand on jim finger yeah, and then there's the shocked
em I see that one. Most often he exists swinging
between those three emojis. You know, I kind of like
it when it's like when they see if you go
(01:07):
into a really great restaurant, you know it's great because
they may only have six things on the menu, but
they have mastery over all of those. I just look
at the pictures. I prefer to order off menu. Have
you ever been on a cruise. I have no, really,
it's not It's not for me. I didn't really think
it was for me either upun doing it. But yes,
(01:32):
interesting experience to be out in the ocean with several
thousand other people just on a big floating metal thing.
Now was it was it a was it like a
family cruise or was it a themed cruise? Because you
know those things occur. I couldn't. I don't know exactly
what it was. It was um Norwegian, I think was
(01:52):
the name of the company. Did you see any icebergs?
I saw zero icebergs, and I was looking for a
good thing for some reason, and they don't hang out
in the Caribbean. That's Norwegian. That's what I thought too,
there's a Caribbean cruise. It was, And I'm glad you
had a good time. How old were you? That wasn't
long ago? Maybe two or three years? Oh that's where
(02:13):
you went. I'm a bad friend. I remember you said
you were at sea, and I thought you were just
joking and let it go. To be clear, it wasn't
my idea, but it was fun. Uh. We should also
mentioned before we really get cooked with gas here. I
don't know if if any of you folks have heard
of this before. But a while ago, Matt and Nolan
(02:36):
I found out about a conspiracy themed cruise, Conspira s
e a conspiracy cruise, and uh, we were briefly were
briefly kicked around the idea of going. But I don't know,
especially if cruises aren't Nol's thing, and it just seems
(02:57):
like an awful lot of like being corraled Alden kind
of you know, herd it around. And I'm not really
into shuffle boards, so I feel like they'd be limited
stuff for me. I'd like to travel on cargo ship
or via icebreaker into the polls, but I don't know
if I would go on them, you know, a normal cruise,
(03:18):
just because they're their own economies, you know, like their
their own worlds. There's no escape. I'd like to ride
on a cruise missile. Maybe that'd be kind of cool
with the cowboy hat. So, but whether or not we
or you are fans of cruises, one thing is for sure.
Cruises are super popular. People love the idea, right, hop
(03:42):
on a boat, get away from it all. See a
couple foreign countries. Maybe. Uh, the practice of cruising recreationally
entirely for pleasure, you know, where you don't have to
bring home, like spoils of war or or salmon to
smoke or something. Uh, it dates back for a while.
It began with the formation something called the Peninsular and
(04:04):
Oriental Steam Navigation Company in eighteen twenty two. Now, they
started out as just a shipping company. They're gonna take
your stuff, put it on a boat, and take it
somewhere else wherever you need it to be. But then
they realized, hey, maybe there's something else to this. They
were going on routes between England and the Iberian Peninsula,
and they adopted that named Peninsular Steam Navigation Company from
(04:28):
that peninsular routing that they were taking. That's a great
word to peninsula. I feel like that some law enforcement
officer probably uses that in a sobriety test, like repeat
the following words to me, right, rural juror peninsula. Yes,
anyway they Yeah, Matt is absolutely correct. They began actually
(04:51):
as a they began traveling to this peninsula and to
Egypt to deliver mail as as a poo stool route.
But uh, they began becoming, you know, known for this
great route and you could ride along for a nominal fee.
The first vessel built just for luxury cruising came only
(05:11):
a few decades later, uh the Prinzastion Victoria Louise of Germany,
designed by a guy with the name get this, Albert
Balling designing ships stack in duckets. And that was the
nineteen hundred and so. Now fast forward to as we
(05:31):
record this, cruise ships are popular around the globe, and
the every market trend just indicates that they will become
even more popular in the coming years. Wouldn't the full
name be pleasure cruise. It's a pleasure cruise. Yeah, that's
a really good point, pleasure cruise. There's a wide variety
(05:52):
of pleasures taking a pleasure cruise to pleasure island. That's nice.
And it is strange to think of how harrowing a journey,
a long boat trip would be and has been throughout history,
Like how many people die when you take a long
ship journey. Back in the day, even not long before
(06:14):
this time in ninet you would have serious issues with
having enough food and water on the ship for enough
of the people and be comfortable there. And if sickness
was a major and like you know, sanitary conditions and
spreading disease, you know, and people hear about people getting
you know, scurvy and whatnot and like you know, malnutrition. Yeah,
(06:37):
I would think, uh, the idea of a pleasure cruise
had to be a pretty big marketing push to make
that fly. And also probably you know, for the wealthy,
the ones who got to hang out up top while
we know that the steerage you know, down below was
where the I guess the employees and some of the
less um fortunate passengers got to hang out. And honestly, guys,
(07:01):
it hasn't changed since then. Yeah, in the sea are
of the air? Have you have you flown coach? And
why are there always new weird gradations of Luxurian planes.
There's like economy economy plus they don't ever say coach anymore.
They don't change anything though, they just change the wording.
I mean, all these planes that you fly on there
(07:21):
like the same ones from they still have ash trays
in the that we're not talking about planes, but I
think it is a good comparison. So the market predictions
estimate that by almost twenty five million people will take
a cruise each year, and of course, disasters occur in
every industry, and when something goes wrong in the world
(07:42):
of cruise ships, people can die. One of the most
famous cruise ship tragedies. Yes, that's true, folks. We are
getting to a point here. It's not just us talking
about whether we're going to take a cruise. We are
exploring one of the most infamous tragedies in modern hour
time history, the sinking of the Titanic bummer. I didn't
(08:05):
sign up for that. I thought we were just gonna
talk about cruises. Well, they didn't sign up to sink
or did they? Like, wait, never mind, if you want
to refund on your ticket for the podcast, then we'll
have to sell tickets. There's some cool stuff here, you guys.
The stuff that I was not aware of, and it
certainly was not addressed in James Cameron's blockbuster smash Titanic
(08:29):
A Love Story, which allegedly have you heard the rumor
about they got dosed with LSD or something like that. Oh,
I will. With the making of the film, I heard
that James Cameron really just wanted to explore the wreckage
in a submarine. He made that movie too, and he
did the Mariannae Trench and his little tiny subec but no,
(08:49):
I heard that he was such a monster that like
somebody dosed was trying to dose him with LSD and
ended up like dosing all of the food on the
spread or something like that, or the coal crew and
cast with LSD, and then they ended up causing some issues.
That would that work? Would that work someone with don't
(09:09):
don't worry, we won't put you on blast, but someone
with the experience in that in that field, let us
know if experience endosing multiple people, well, if LSD would
work in food. I had never heard that. That's fascinating. Oh,
you guys, I found it. So apparently it was some
much l s D laced chowder that was intended for
Mr Cameron, but others ended up eating it, and the
(09:32):
assistant This is on an I on nine article, by
the way, excellent side uh. The assistant director apparently got
so freaked out that he stabbed James Cameron in the
face with a pencil. Oh my gosh. Well, also, you
shouldn't eat other people's chowder. There are multiple lessons to
learn here, and and and the history of the well.
I don't know if the history of the real Titanic
(09:54):
is as interesting in bizarre as that historical note on
the home. But we do have the history of the
actual Titanic too, which is relatively LSD free. Yes, it
dates back to nineteen o seven when a guy named
James Bruce Ismay who was the son of this other
guy named Thomas. He founded the White Star line of
(10:15):
ocean liners on the idea that people would travel farther
by ship if the vessels were just luxury is enough
for them to to want to stay on that ship
like a pleasure cruz. Yeah, the idea of I don't
want to be on a ship for two days, but
if I can go bowling on that ship, maybe I will.
If there's a tub, if it's opulent, if there are servants,
(10:39):
if I can drink, and as much as I want,
whenever I want. Sure. For some reason, I feel like
people in the early twentieth century did that anyway. Yeah,
I just feel like getting drunk on a cruise ship
would be a recipe for disaster, because it's like, what
if he even have mild sea sickness, wouldn't that be
just exacerbated by you know, alcohol consumption. I don't know.
(11:00):
That's I I wonder if you I imagine that many
people uh, become acclimated to it. If they're on for
a week, get your sea legs, get your sea legs. Yes, exactly.
And mostly people are on the slots or in the casino,
just so you know, on a cruise ship. So part
of the reason that Ismay was inspired to do this
(11:23):
he had a partner, Lord Peery, who was chairman of
Harland and Wolf shipbuilders, and Pery kept talking about the
Mauritania and the Lusitania, which were the newest vessels of
something called the Cunard line. Ismay and Perry were convinced
that they could create bigger and better and more luxurious ships.
(11:46):
So then they imagined three giants, the Gigantic, which would
isn't that an awesome name? It later would change his
name to the Brittenant, right, much more luxurious sounding, the
Olympic and the Titanic. The Titanic and these shifts when
but they're gonna be so posh, you guys, you have
(12:08):
no idea how posh they're gonna be. They're gonna be fast,
they're gonna be so safe. We're gonna get you there
in style, and they're huge. I mean, yeah, Gigantic was
an appropriate name. It just doesn't have the same ring
as Britannic. Yeah, but then you you think Titanic is
after titan, which is another just giant thing, saying titan
(12:29):
or giant. I wonder if they had another name for
Olympic and we're just too embarrassed to put it in
the history books. Was it just big big lee, big boy,
big boy, big an? Uh? So the Titanic itself was,
you know, not ironically named. It was almost ut long,
(12:50):
and it was almost ninety three ft wide. It weighed
almost forty five thousand tons. It had two reciprocating engines,
each of which were about four stories tall. That's incomprehensible
for me. There were there were three propellers. Two of
them were like a little over twenty three ft in diameter,
(13:15):
and then there was one. There was a four blade
propeller that was seventeen feet um near the ship's seventeen
feet in diameter, near the ship's rudder, and it could
make it enough. It could generate enough horsepower to get
it to the insane speed of twenty seven point six
miles per hour, which I know does not sound impressive,
but again, this thing is like NT long to that huge. Yeah,
(13:38):
and then stopping it is an issue, right, And the
ship was so massively Titanic that it actually could not
be constructed on existing docks and launching sites, so they
actually had to build a whole new set of docks
called the White Star Docks, and the Great Gantree, which
was a series of fifteen massive cranes that allowed them
(14:03):
to accommodate all of the moving parts of the ship
building process. So the Titanic was finished in nine twelve,
and it took an estimated eleven thousand people to build it.
I can't even picture what that would like. How do
you even like manage eleven thousand people? Is like an
Egyptian period? I was thinking the same thing. It's insane
(14:26):
and all in all, um, the cost was an estimated
seven point five million dollars, which today would amount with
inflation to about a hundred and eighty nine million, six thousand,
seven hundred and seven dollars and ninety cents. And that's
in seventeen dollars. And here's the big thing. They called
(14:48):
it unsinkable. Spoiler. Really gotta follow through with that kind
of promise, you know, they were all they were so
so very wrong. And here lies the kernel of today's episode.
K E r in y L not not, Colonel. Let's
do a commercial break and we are back. As you know, uh,
(15:17):
well as we we make very few assumptions on this show,
but for this we're just going to assume that everyone
knows that the Titanic is indeed sinkable and sank. What
you may not know is the true story of how
this disaster occurs. We're gonna set the scene for you
and walk through this pretty quickly, hopefully. And uh, we're
(15:39):
relying a lot on some excellent work by our colleagues
at how Stuff Works website on their article how the
Titanic Worked, which you can read for more information. But
things are eventually gonna get crazy, right, yes? Cool. The
ship sets sail from its launching site in Belfast to Southampton,
England in April of nineteen twelve. Titanic pick up the
(16:00):
passengers from England and moved along to France and then
to Queenstown, Ireland to get the rest. Collectively, there were
about two thousand, two hundred eight passengers and eight hundred
officers and crew. So, going back to the class system
we mentioned earlier, there were three nine first class travelers
(16:20):
several of whom were titans of industry, the giants of industry,
So I don't say tighten all the time. Two and
eighty five second class travelers and seven hundred and ten
third class travelers. So let's break down some of these
classes really fast. Let's look at the cream of the
crop of that first class. We're talking primarily wealthy industrialists
(16:41):
and the people that they call their families, hopefully actually
their families, sure their personal servants. And among these people
were well too well known John Jacob Astor, the fourth
of the Astor family that you may have heard of
before on this show, one of these wealthy families that
made their money on what ben opium? Opium, not all
(17:05):
of it, but a lot of it exactly. Uh. And
then JP Morgan another name that you have heard before, undoubtedly,
and Mr Morgan was forced to cancel his passage due
to in certain reason. Here there are so many different
reasons that have been given for him having to cancel.
He says one thing, other people see him doing other things.
(17:27):
Will explore it a little later. Among the second class
passengers were businessmen, members of the clergy. Uh. There were
also UH teachers and a chauffeur who were traveling second
class and then third class or steerage. The part where
who was that actor Leonardo DiCaprio, That's where he would
(17:49):
have been in the in the Titanic film. First class
tickets were pretty expensive, round to forty five hundred dollars.
That's between forty four thousand and a little over eighty
thousand today. Whoa an eighty thousand dollar ticket? Now granted
(18:11):
that's top of the line. Yeah, I'm sure you essentially
have an apartment on the sea at that point. Yeah,
But then you look at the third class ticket and
it's going to be obtained for around thirty five dollars
at the time or six d dollars. Now, wow, it's selling.
We're qvcns for which one for the third class list
steerage six hundred, six hundred bucks today's dollars. But no,
(18:34):
I know, but it's saying, like, you know, even for
today's dollars, if I'm paying six hundred, I would expect
more than steerage. Yeah, but six hundred dollars to how
many day cruise? You know, you're talking multiple days ship.
It's not like all that stuff. But let me also
point out that for that ticket. I don't know if
we have the cer notes, but it is true that
(18:56):
the conditions did radically differ. There were two baths for
everybody in third class, like two bathtubs for seven hundred people.
But that's also where all the sweet Irish dancing took place. Yes,
if we are, if we are to believe the excellent
documentary by James Cameron. Right, uh, yeah, and alright, so
fast forward. It's April fourteenth, nine twelve, third day of
(19:20):
the of the voyage. The water is around twenty eight
degrees fahrenheit. That's very cold, dangerously cold if you're out
in the open ocean. Around noon of that day, the
tit Tanics Marconi wireless operators. They had a Marconi radio,
very cutting edge at this time, but also very new technology. Uh.
(19:40):
They received the first of what would be a total
of four cautionary messages about large ice flows ahead. They
got a second message of five thirty five from a
ship that reported three icebergs just nineteen miles north of
Titanic's path, and just one hour before the collision. Vessel
(20:02):
named the Californian message the Titanic, we are stopped and
surrounded by ice and Apparently the person who was manning
the Marconi that's what they called it at that time.
Person his man and the Marconi on the Titanic replied,
shut up, I am busy. I am working cape race
the captain and Captain Smith wasn't worried about icebergs. After all,
(20:23):
he was piloting a mass or captain in rather a
massive steel behemoth. Instead, the story goes, he was concerned
about shattering speed records set by other massive maritime behemoths.
I can imagine that taking your mind off of what's
around you and just focusing on the instrumentation going on.
And he tried to be you know, he tried to
(20:45):
be responsible. It is his job. So he told an
officer named Lyteler, who was stationed on the captain's bridge,
that if the night became too hazy, he should be
alerted immediately and they would slow the ship's speed. But
the night was clear, and so the Titanic sped on.
There were two officers, won by the name of Frederick Fleet,
(21:07):
the other Reginald Lee, who were in the observation port um.
Fleet was getting to the end of his shift when
he saw the iceberg and said, iceberg ahead, thank you.
So they sounded the alarm and they called down to
the bridge, and a full thirty seven seconds passed before
the first officer, William M. Murdoch, shut off the engines,
(21:27):
dropped the watertight doors, um to the bottom compartments. Because
the ship was made up of these different compartments that
were able to flood and keep the water from spreading elsewhere.
And that's a big issue that led to the ultimate
sinking of the ship, was that these things did not
work as expected. Um, So he killed the engines, shut
the doors, and turned the ship away from its front
(21:50):
end so that the iceberg. Uh So they took the
hit on the side of the ship right right. They
did not have enough time to make a complete stop
or even to turn a way. Stopping the ship would
have required a half mile in This iceberg was nine
feet from the ship. Yeah, that's that. Um oh, no
moment if you're in your car and you're in traffic
(22:12):
or something and you realize you have to stop, but oh,
I'm too close to fully apply the brakes here. I'm
gonna have to go to the side of this vehicle
or something. Yeah, And I mean what ended up happening
was the iceberg just kind of shredded the side of
the ship. It dragged along the edge of it, right,
creating a huge scar that just hemorrhaged, you know, And
(22:32):
for a few minutes, Uh, it looked like their last
second maneuver may have worked. From the surface, the ship
appeared to have missed the iceberg, but underneath, whereas we know,
icebergs are much larger. Right, protruding fragment of ice ripped
a hole through the Titanic hull. Just like Noll said,
if the ship was shuddering or or showing initial and
(22:56):
irregularities in movement, it was subtle and went undetected or
excused as the heavy groaning machinery. When Captain Smith surveyed
the flood damage, he and a philom named Thomas Andrews
said the hole must be nearly three feet wide, but
in reality it was a tear uh smaller. It was smaller.
It was like six lacerations about three and a half
(23:17):
square feet. But not only did the captain's navigation attempt
not work, it made things worse and moved the Titanic
from the sturdiest place to withstand the impact to the
most vulnerable point. And even the smallest gash caused these
terrible results. So earlier we mentioned how the compartments could
close right and these water tight things to prevent the
(23:39):
spread of floodwater. Five of the ship's compartments had already
begun to flood, and Captain Smith said the ship was
going to sink. Unquestionably we have He predicted about an
hour or an hour and a half left before it
would slip to the bottom of the Atlantic. And here's
the thing. The Titanic didn't just sink. There are reports
(24:01):
from my witnesses that testified that it actually broke completely
in half, and the science actually supports these accounts. You
see the middle of the ship that you've got all
the stress of these um the water filled compartments that
we're talking about, right, that's a ton of weight. And
as one of the like ends began to keel out
(24:21):
of the water like come up and rise, you've got
all that weight in the center and it just broke
the thing in half. There's so much pressure there. The
stress reached around thirty five hundred pounds per square inch
on the boat deck itself, and that's fifty more stress
than this whole ship was meant to take. There were
plenty of life jackets to go around, that's the good news.
(24:41):
They were built of cork, which is weird, but not
so weird back then, one would hope. However, there was
of the two thousand, two hundred eight passengers and almost
nine hundred crew members, uh, it was room for only
eleven hundred and seventy six for them in the lifeboats.
At twelve am so April fifteenth, now, the captain gave
(25:05):
the crew orders to start lowering the lifeboats, leading the
first class passengers to the boat deck. Uh, and they
were when Billy Zane kicked that little girl off the lifeboat?
Was Billy's all? Yeah, no, not not the disparage, but
I mean Billy's And the actor playing a jerky first
class passenger who was Rose's original love interest, but as
(25:29):
it turned out, the scrappy young lad Leonardo Dicafrio won
her heart at least. Well, no, I think she was
in love with him. She was in love with Is
it okay to spoilt Titana? I think so? That's sort
of like spoiling the assassination of a ram wing? Right,
So there were fourteen lifeboats that could carry sixty five
(25:51):
people to emergency sea boats that could carry thirty five people,
and four collapsible boats that can carry forty nine people.
By two am, all these boats have been lowered, half
of the ship's passenger and crew still remained. And that
part from the film is a true story. The band
did play on as the ship sank. Those folks have
(26:12):
some real they have real spine, They have a lot
of sand. You know. Yeah, I'm trying to think of
a family friendly way to say, Yeah, that's it's gonna
go with first. Actually, uh, they played the song of choice.
They played if this is ever in a very bizarre
maccabre trivia game for you. The song of choice was
(26:34):
Nearer My God to the which is a old hymn.
When a ship called the Carpathia arrived to rescue survivors,
they found a floating disaster. You know, lifeboats are adrift,
passengers are shivering to death, surely deeply traumatized. The ship
got fourteen boats and seven survivors, which means more than
(26:57):
passengers and crew were dead. And I'm sure maybe not
this specifically, but you know regulations now would require you
not to book more people than you have safety equipment
for right, I mean that's that pretty big oversight. You know,
people buy tickets with that you know, six dollar inflated
ticket value price for that low level. Also, that's where
(27:18):
the flooding happened too, was down in steer age, and
they were you know, having to deal with that, and
then they get up top escape only to realize that
they are doomed. Yeah. Apparently the third class passengers were
not allowed up until the first and class at first
and second class passengers have been accounted for, which is
just disgusting. Every time, every time I think I've got
(27:42):
a handle on humanity's dark potential, man, something like this happens.
This show is changing me. Yeah. Well, there's something to
be said about cruising in a place where if you
do fall into the water, it's over pretty quickly like that.
I don't know that. Yeah, it just seems like a
(28:05):
really bad idea unless you've got like contingency upon contingency,
you know. But then also, you know, this is the
top of the line. It's best in class ship right
right right, but apparently not unbreakable or unable. Uh so
that's the official story. Uh, it's a tremendous loss of life,
(28:29):
financial catastrophe, a cultural catastrophe. The Titanic will spend almost
a century rotting at the bottom of the ocean, creating,
you know, a new shipwreck ecosystem. Right, and that is
the official story. But what if there were something more
to this story? Here's where it gets crazy. So, as
(28:50):
with any large scale disaster in the modern age, we
all know this, alternative theories about the Titanic begin to
circulate in the years following the events. So we got
together and looked at some of the most prevalent, uh,
some of the most plausible, which there are a few
that might surprise you, and of course the strangest. So
(29:11):
what do we have? Not so fast, you guys. First
we have to hear a word from our sponsor. You rogue.
The first theory surrounding the sinking of the Titanic is
when you may have heard, and it has to do
with the global banking elites that sank their ship to
(29:35):
kill off their opponents. And people who think that this
is true believe that this was essentially um an assassination
of sorts a U scatter shot, a wide shot assassination
attempt on several highly important people in the banking world.
I feel like there was a like a British crime
(29:56):
show I saw where there was a storyline involving a
mass murder that was actually trying to assassinate a very
specific group of people, but just killed a bunch of
people to cover the tracks of the motive. This is
kind of like that make it look like an accident. Well,
we know that people have bizarre plane crashes often. Um,
(30:16):
so this, this then would be an act of terrorism.
Who were they actually after? You know what? They weren't
killing the purposely killing the entire boat. They wanted a
few people, right, like like Nolan is mentioning, well, well
you got the aster, whether the gentleman aster, John Jacob
Isidor Strauss and Benjamin Googgenheim another familiar name you know,
(30:40):
rings a little something there of the Guggenheim like museum
and all that. Yes, all were millionaires, and they were
all opposed to this idea of creating a central bank,
a private central bank, within the United States because it's
going to negatively affect their personal fortunes. And you know,
the fingers that they've got in the pies of the
banking world inside the US. They hate that analogy. I know,
(31:03):
it's like have you ever seen somebody actually have their
finger in a pie saw a movie back in the
early two thousand. That's American pine. It wasn't a finger, right, Yes,
you're right, okay, pictures the humanity and the pie. But
(31:26):
but yeah, I see, I see what you're saying. So
these three men, in particular, according to this theory, were
against the formation of the Federal Reserve. Oh yes, the
creature from jek'l Island. Yes, so named because the plans
for the Federal Reserve were controversially created in a fancy
(31:46):
pants island off the coast of Georgia, the state, not
the country, uh, in nineteen thirteen. So it is a
controversial thing, privatizing, you know, the central bank for an
entire country. Whoa, whoa, whoa whoa. The word we use
now is quasi government, quasi government. And okay, So according
(32:06):
to this uh, JP Morgan and Rocke Rockefeller in the
various franchises. Excuse me, families of the Rothchild thing. We're
conspiring to remove what could be uh substantive opposition. Here's
the thing. It's true that JP Morgan had a personal
(32:29):
suite aboard the ship with his own private deck. If
he could believe that and uh he had a customized
you know, living area in there. Uh. He was booked
on the ship's maiden voyage, but instead he canceled the trip.
And you you may you heard us earlier allude to
(32:50):
what the various reasons why what did what did you
guys hear? Oh man, I heard all kinds of stuff.
I heard he said he wasn't feeling so well, so
he was gonna stay home and and combat s. But
he may have just stayed in France. Remember how we
were saying how the Titanic left went over to France
and then went to Ireland. Well, it seems that he
(33:11):
he stayed in the French resort to enjoy, you know,
some morning massages, some sulfur baths. That the kind of
things you do when you're a Morgan. Sulfur bath. Sulfur bath.
It's like a bathroom with sulfur instead of water. Yeah, No,
I am, so, I am lying. I am I'm not.
Are you lying because you don't know? No, I I
imagine I don't know for sure, but I imagine for
(33:32):
exfoliation or something. Heel like, if it's supposed to be restorative.
I mean, this is a time when people really believed
in curative springs, so it was probably a natural, naturally
occurring uh water source that had sulfurous content in the water.
Smells how the animals going on around this? Yeah, yeah,
John Harvey Kellogg and it smells great in a sulfur
(33:55):
bathroom and yogurt all over your parts. Not to mention
the guy who in Graham Crackers, that's a whole another,
that's a whole another his story, and we'll leave that
for another day ziplock full of gummy bears. The whole
point is that Morgan's abrupt cancelation, the decision to not
be on the ship, seems suspicious at all, and we
(34:18):
will also just as side note, this is so interesting,
we will also do another episode in the future if
you would like, on the bizarre, strange origins of commonplace
snacks and silverware another seemingly innocuous products. You were absolutely right, Matt,
this last minute cancelation, whatever reason he did, apparently the
(34:38):
story is and there was last minute, if fueled speculation
that he had advanced knowledge of the fate of the Titanic,
and there are there are a few variations in this
theory and in some versions um the three men on
the boat were opposed to income tax legislation. Chronologically, that
(34:59):
one doesn't really work out, UM, according to other people,
the Jesuits for some reason, Lord these men on their ship. Uh.
We we should point out that there is also not UM.
There's not a lot of hard evidence on on this
fill in particular. And while we do know that maybe
(35:19):
UM plane crashes can occur, we know that there have
been questionable deaths or air quote accidents before UM. This
seems like it's asking a lot like who would who
would bring down UM a ship that's worth a hundred
(35:40):
and ninety million dollars to kill three people. That's exactly
my thought of spending that much money to make the
ship and only to have it, you know, destroyed, unless
you're getting insurance. There's also like there's better ways to
assassinate people easier, not that they don't rely on hitting
an ice, right. Yeah, it seems like a lot of
(36:03):
happenstance going on here. It's like a Rube Goldberg, really
is I mean, it would be brilliant, It would be brilliant,
but I fear this is a stretch. Some of the
other ones, though, are a little less stretchy. Well, here's
here's the other thing, like, did what if the Titanic
never sank at all? That's a real one that I well,
(36:24):
it's a real one. It's on here outline with which
I was not familiar. So we said earlier that there
were three boats in this giant class, right, Uh, the Gigantica,
the Massifania, the Big Boy Big Boy, and uh huh
and little Nuggets whatever their names are. Their official names
(36:47):
when they launched were the Olympic, the Britannic, and the Titanic. Uh.
What if Some people argue the Titanic, rather than sinking,
was the victim or beneficiary of identity theft? What if
it was switched at the last minute for its sister ship,
the Olympia. I just don't understand why you would do that.
(37:11):
The Titanic is the big reason, Like this is the
thing you're showing off. According to the most famous proponent
of this theory, writer named Robin Gardiner, there's much more
to the story. H Gardner wrote a book called Titanic,
The Ship that Never Sank? Can you hear the question
mark we put in there? There we go perfect? So
(37:31):
this author looks at several other events and coincidences that
occurred in the months, days hours leading up to the disaster,
and concludes the ship that sank was actually the Olympic
disguised as the Titanic, and it was an insurance scam
by the owners of the owners of the concern, which
(37:51):
was the International Mercantile Marine Group who bought White Star
Line in nineteen o two, and the controller of the
Marine Group was JP Morgan, J p oh, JP heavy
J himself. Okay, alright, alright, So the Olympic, check this out,
was the slightly older sister of the Titanic and was
(38:12):
launched in October of nineteen ten, so a couple of
years earlier. The exterior profile was nearly identical to the Titanic,
save for a few minor details when we're talking about
stuff like the number of portholes on one area of
the ship. So here's one example of Gardner's argument. Uh
Gardner says the bullships were built with linoleum floors, but
(38:34):
shortly before she was due to set sail. J. Bruce
is May, the director of White Star Line, inexplicably ordered
the floors aboard Titanic be carpeted over. There's something else
the motivation in this theory is that the Olympic had
already been involved in a couple of accidents, and that
(38:54):
this would essentially be an insurance scam. So you'd collect
the insured us of the Titanic for sinking the Olympic, Right,
but you would still be, you know, killing hundreds of people. Yeah,
you would essentially be killing hundreds of people for a
little less than our day, our modern equivalent of two
(39:15):
hundred million dollars. Sure, I mean, what do you think
the uh the value of a human life was in
in in ninete just thinking the same thing. We should
calculate that and bring it back in another episode. What
is our value? Ye oh boy, that's a good one.
They like that as a title. Yeah, what is the
value of human life? But now, I mean, I don't
(39:37):
know that. I said things were getting a little less
stretchy because I don't know captains of industry or monsters
a lot of the time. And uh, I don't think
I would put it past a JP Morgan type too,
value and investment over the lives of hundreds of people. Actually, yeah,
I can. I mean, in principle I can absolutely agree,
(39:59):
because I mean, yeah, it would be harder to do
if it wasn't like actually an active event when it
took I'm saying, like, you can't just blow up the
ship at dry dock. People ask questions about that, but like,
you know, but then again, how do you force it
to hit an iceberg? Like did they mess with the route?
(40:20):
Like what how would you accomplish this? Right? I think
that's a perfect setup, nol, because we're going to go
into theories about accidental occurrences, but I think within those
we're also going to find something that could lend a
little credence to or answer perhaps the question of how
someone would intentionally do this. And just to jump in
(40:42):
here talking about insurance, for you know, we're discussing how
people are definitely gonna collect insurance on this. This was
a huge investment, right, No matter what happens to the Titanic,
if something bad happens, the people that own it are
for sure going to try and collect as much as
they possibly can on it, right, even like it doesn't
matter they in their mind. I can't say what they're thinking,
(41:07):
but it doesn't matter how many people got hurt or
died for the collecting of their insurance. Right, I see
what you're saying yeah, and it is tough to ascribe
motive without you know, hard documentation. Well, let's go into
even less stretchy I like that turn less stretchy theories. Uh,
the idea of possible accidental occurrences one and this is
(41:29):
so terrible possible wrong turn. Louise Patton, who's the granddaughter
of the ship's most senior surviving officer, the man we mentioned,
Charles Lighthowlder, claims that he told his wife a crew
member turned the ship quote the wrong way and into
the course of the iceberg after officer William Murdoch first
spotted it and gave a hard starboard order. The cruise
(41:54):
Liner was operating under two communication systems that were in
direct conflict with one another, and in two thousand ten,
Louise Patton told The Guardian UK paper that a command
to turn hard to starboard mint turn the wheel right
under one system and left under the other. Because I
would imagine they would have maps of known iceberg areas
(42:18):
right or like, you know, if there was a cluster,
they probably would have been charted. I would think it
would be a little difficult because they could be mobile.
That's true, but so but but so the communication systems
we're talking about here, there are largely visual and verbal. Well,
yeah they were on These were on the ship too,
But we have to keep in mind they got numerous warnings.
(42:39):
There were at least four different warnings throughout the day
leading up to the accident after midnight. So interesting, Yeah,
so they kept on. Maybe the captain was a bit
arrogant speaking. I just said, it's tough to ascribe motive,
and I like, listen to this guy. Well, there are
(42:59):
other things to write. There were questions about whether or
not the actual materials that were used to build the
ship were possibly not up to snuff, or even a
shortage of viewing binoculars u a shortage of an ability
to view icebergs that had the potential to be a problem,
which is tough, you know when you think about it.
(43:20):
If if that is true, if there were weak ship
building materials, if there was a shortage of binoculars and
a shortage of lifeboats, this is starting to sound more
and more like some corners were being cut outside of
the public eye. Here is the most plausible, and this
might answer that earlier question about how someone could purposely
(43:42):
plan to pull an insurance scam if that's what if
that actually happened, is the most plausible or less at
least the least implausible that a coal fire either significantly
contributed to or is directly responsible for the disaster. There's
this urnalists named sent On Maloney. I'm going to call
(44:04):
you Mr Maloney because I'm not sure if I'm pronounce
your name correctly. Uh. Maloney is a documentary called Titanic
The New Evidence, and in it he argues that a
fire ha been smoldering and Bunker number six, one of
the ship's coal bunker boiler rooms of the Titanic since
the ship left Belfast, so was burning the whole time.
(44:26):
And um, it sounds crazy, but it's true that coal
coal has the ability to combust like this. Uh. Near
that bunker is where the iceberg tore the biggest hole
in the ship on its maiden voyage. According to The Independent,
Maloney claims photos of the Titanic show dark marks on
(44:46):
the side of the ship not facing the dock, hinting
at existing fire and that should never been put to sea.
And we have a quote from Maloney for you. The
official Titanic Inquiry branded the sinking as an act of God.
This isn't a simple story of colliding with an iceberg
and sinking. It's a perfect storm of extraordinary factors coming together, fire, ice,
(45:12):
and criminal negligence. It was very Game of Thrones that
really stoked to watch the finale tonight. So yeah, I
wasn't even expecting the fire and ice bit. He goes on.
I don't know why he talks like this, but he
just he does. I guess um. We have experts telling
us that when you get that level of temperature against steel,
it makes it brittle and reduces its strength by up
(45:34):
to The fire was known about and briefly addressed at
the inquiry, but it was played down. It is absolutely
true that there was a fire on the ship. What
what we count is the newer revelatory or theoretical part
of this is blaming the fire for the sinking of
the ship once it hit the iceberg. Did the fire
(45:56):
create weakness in the in the metal, in the material,
According to an engineer for the Geological Society of America
and Ohio State University fellow named Robert Eisenhei, attempts to
control the coal fire and the bunker could have been
the reason the Titanic sailed so quickly through an area
littered with icebergs, So that would you know in the
(46:19):
film they're trying to set a speed record, right, and
like some kind of oceanic icarus, they go too far,
too high. My analogy is not working. So the the
reasoning here would be that they're going that quickly because
they're having an emergency. Essentially, there's a huge issue with
(46:40):
this fire. We have to get to a dock somewhere
and take care of this white possibly and to connect
the dots. Maybe JP Morgan one could argue knew about
the fire and didn't go and to connect the dots. Further,
if we're playing a little bit of bread crumb rabbit
hole game, maybe the fire is intentional. To be fair,
(47:02):
there is absolutely no hard proof of this at all.
This is this is speculative the at least the JP
Morgan's reaction to the fire. Right. There are a lot
of myths about this sort of stuff that are becoming folklore.
At this point. However, we do know that there really
was a fire, and we know that this is not
(47:25):
the end of the alternative theories because now we are
wading into the very very strange stuff with even allegations
of the paranormal. Yeah, did some man tell the future
or somehow prescribe the events that would occur to the
Titanic In a novel written in eighteen known as Futility
(47:51):
or Wreck of the titan It was a guy named
Morgan Robertson, and fourteen years before the Titanic menis Demise,
he wrote a no that had a lot of similarities
to what happened to the Titanic, and it had to
do with insurance fraud. Mm hmmm hm hm m m mmmm.
And they they think that this guy predicted It was
(48:13):
revised by the author in nineteen twelve after the Titanic sank,
to make the ship a little bigger, a little difference, Yeah,
just like make it a little more similar to the
events of the Titanic, probably to sell copies. And so
still there are multiple purported similarities between the events depicked
(48:33):
in the story and the true story of Titanic, which,
of course, for some of us will call to mind. Uh.
The famous narrative of Arthur Gordon Pim of Nantucket, written
by Edgar Allan Poe, a bizarre coincidence in a very
dark one where Poe writes a story about people lost
at sea and survival cannibalism, and then later something very
(48:57):
much like that happens. And don't you spoil that post
story for me. I think Poo did a good job
of spoiling it himself. What are you saying. I mean,
it's just not my favorite of his story. He's falling
him a hack. No, no, Just so you know, in
Robertson's tale Futility, one of the main characters or one
(49:19):
of the characters gets off onto the iceberg with I
believe a child and then is forced to do some
battle with a polar bear that is also making residents
on the iceberg. That's that's kind of fun and terrifying. Yeah,
but you know, it's a story that I would want
to read if I was in the eighteen hundreds. Speaking
of Game of Thrones, polar bears, zombie polar bears. It's
(49:45):
gonna leave that right there. I have no idea what
you're talking about. Not really a spoiler, just zombie polar bears. Okay,
I've just I've been pretending to know a Game of
Thrones is for the past several years. So Matt, please
don't give me your disappointed dad's I for one field
(50:07):
betrayed Matt. Matt's the kind of guy who would not
be mad at you, but just disappointed, which is somehow
so much worse right, uh well, speaking in fantastic segues,
there there are a couple others that are they're pretty strange.
This isn't so much a conspiracy theory as a paranormal stuff.
There was another writer in eight six, a British writer
(50:31):
named William T. Stead who had a short story called
How the Atlantic Mail Steamer Went Down. A mail steamer
in the Atlantic collides with another vessel, shortage of lifeboats
on board caused an enormous uh loss of life. More
than a decade later, Stead was a passenger on the
Titanic and he was one of the fifth around fift
(50:52):
hundred who did not make it. Whoa and then the
very last one which we saved. Because it's just so,
it's so strange and it feels more like creepy pasta
or a campfire story. One of the mystical versions of
the crash is associated with the legendary folklore Curse of
(51:12):
the Pharaohs, and no fated ship was carrying the mummy
of an ancient Egyptian priestess that belonged to Lord Centerville,
shipping it to New York via the Titanic, remember the
whole shipping days of these boats still happening. To avoid
the damage of the box with the exhibit was placed
on the captain's bridge, allegedly allegedly allegedly the case and
(51:38):
at the head of the mommy there was a statue
of Osiris, according to the story. Osiris, of course, as
we remembers, the Egyptian god of death. The words inscribed
on this were allegedly allegedly allegedly rise from the ashes
and let your eyes strike those who stand in your way.
So is it talking about the iceberg or the boat? Well,
(52:01):
you know, we could do an entire episode. I would
be surprised of our friends at stuff you missed in
history classes, stuff you should know. Haven't already done an
episode on the alleged curse of the Pharaohs. We've done one,
haven't we. I know, we did a video. We did
a video, but we haven't done write it down. Guys,
here we go, do do do? Do? Yeah? So we
(52:23):
have some great ideas for upcoming stuff. There we have.
We have the bizarre origins of otherwise innocuous things Kello Cereal,
Graham Crackers, shout out to our friends at food Stuff
who delve into some excellent history and culture of food
and if you want to check that out. And then
we also have the the Pharaoh's curse, So we hope
(52:50):
that you have um, we hope that you have enjoyed
exploring these alternative theories. At this point, most people are
the vast majority of humanity believe the official narrative, with
the strongest other contender being the idea that there was
a fire contributing to the to the disaster. The other
(53:16):
stuff is interesting and it leads us to a bunch
of different possible threads. Right, but in the end, wait,
what do you what do you guys think? For me,
it remains a tragedy that happened because of a lot
of a domino effect of things that were occurring. Um.
(53:37):
And maybe it's just I'm too deep in the official story,
but I still see it as that way. Nothing has
convinced me thus far about this stuff, although the fire
thing that's the closest I would say, Well, the official
story also has corroborating firsthand witnesses in terms of survivors,
people who were actually there I think it would be
(54:00):
amazing if somebody could replace an entire ship and disguise it.
But it's so amazing and astonishing because it it borders
on insanity in terms of planning, and it seems very difficult.
What do you think? No, I think it was those
fat cats standards of industry, just like wanting to kill
(54:24):
everybody for insurance money, and they knew they were going
to get a life both. You know, they just colluded
to I don't know, man, it's I guess it just
depends on who who holds the policy, like who specifically
holds the policy to benefit from thinking. But still, even
at that level, it feels you guys, remember that board
game mouse Trap that barely ever worked. It feels like
(54:47):
a level of unnecessary complexity comparable to mouse Trap. Even
in those days, I mean you had some semblance of like,
you know, sniper kind of equivalent to it, or pois
inning or closing someone get someone with a terminal disease
to perform a hit so that their family can benefit.
(55:07):
Oh yeah, no, that wouldn't get you the insurance money.
But what you know, what was the problem, what was
the issue? What you know? It seems like an awful
you could get if you wanted to make a quick
buck on an insurance scam. You think you do it
with like life insurance for a human or like you know,
like like building a gazillion dollar luxury liner and then
(55:30):
arranging it to sink with people on it so to
collect the insurance money. It just doesn't seem to add
up to Maybe they just got into deep. They build
three of them, right, and that is that is true,
and that would be an equivalent of just under six
hundred million dollars. But still, oh yes, that's our other episode.
We're going to find out how much each of us
(55:53):
is worth justin I think justin raw materials. It is
probably the best way, you know, like people every gonna
boil is down for the copper we did the illegal
organ trading stuff, maybe we could, uh we could figure
out like what would each of our organs be worth
on the black market, and then what would be the
lifetime value of us, like in like you know, slave labor.
(56:17):
I don't know. Yeah, yeah, that's a that's a great
episode to do. Check out the Red Market if you
have not if you haven't listened to it yet, but
do make sure you're not listening to it while you're
eating it is there is some very disturbing content in there.
And most importantly, we would like to know what you
think about these stories. One of the more interesting things
(56:40):
to us, I believe in these sorts of situations is
that so much time has passed, you know that there's
pretty um clearly cemented concept or narrative that every upon
which everybody agrees. But as we know, those sorts of
things can and be overturned often throughout human civilization, and
(57:04):
it's it's terrifying how often that can happen. We have
to remember, this is a species that totally thought Troy
was a made up city for centuries and then some
guy found it and it's real. So we'd like to
hear your take, not just on this, what on other
maritime disasters of human history, or in your opinion on cruises.
(57:24):
And if you want to find us, look for us
on Twitter and Facebook where we are conspiracy stuff. And
if you want to find us on Instagram where conspiracy
Stuff show, just add that show to the end of there.
And if you don't want to find us on social
media because you don't like using that stuff, you can
write us an email We are conspiracy at how stuff
works dot com.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. Welcome
(00:24):
back to the show. My name is Matt, my name
is no. They call me Ben. You are you? And
that makes this stuff they don't want you to know.
As always, we are joined by our super producer Tristan McNeil. Tristan,
do you want to wave to us? Okay, well, everybody
will just have to believe us when we say that
Tristan was indeed waving. Tristan just communicates in emoji's We
(00:46):
found out it's it's pretty intense. Like there's three that
he uses. There's the oh face emogi yeah, there's the
hand on jim finger yeah, and then there's the shocked
em I see that one. Most often he exists swinging
between those three emojis. You know, I kind of like
it when it's like when they see if you go
(01:07):
into a really great restaurant, you know it's great because
they may only have six things on the menu, but
they have mastery over all of those. I just look
at the pictures. I prefer to order off menu. Have
you ever been on a cruise. I have no, really,
it's not It's not for me. I didn't really think
it was for me either upun doing it. But yes,
(01:32):
interesting experience to be out in the ocean with several
thousand other people just on a big floating metal thing.
Now was it was it a was it like a
family cruise or was it a themed cruise? Because you
know those things occur. I couldn't. I don't know exactly
what it was. It was um Norwegian, I think was
(01:52):
the name of the company. Did you see any icebergs?
I saw zero icebergs, and I was looking for a
good thing for some reason, and they don't hang out
in the Caribbean. That's Norwegian. That's what I thought too,
there's a Caribbean cruise. It was, And I'm glad you
had a good time. How old were you? That wasn't
long ago? Maybe two or three years? Oh that's where
(02:13):
you went. I'm a bad friend. I remember you said
you were at sea, and I thought you were just
joking and let it go. To be clear, it wasn't
my idea, but it was fun. Uh. We should also
mentioned before we really get cooked with gas here. I
don't know if if any of you folks have heard
of this before. But a while ago, Matt and Nolan
(02:36):
I found out about a conspiracy themed cruise, Conspira s
e a conspiracy cruise, and uh, we were briefly were
briefly kicked around the idea of going. But I don't know,
especially if cruises aren't Nol's thing, and it just seems
(02:57):
like an awful lot of like being corraled Alden kind
of you know, herd it around. And I'm not really
into shuffle boards, so I feel like they'd be limited
stuff for me. I'd like to travel on cargo ship
or via icebreaker into the polls, but I don't know
if I would go on them, you know, a normal cruise,
(03:18):
just because they're their own economies, you know, like their
their own worlds. There's no escape. I'd like to ride
on a cruise missile. Maybe that'd be kind of cool
with the cowboy hat. So, but whether or not we
or you are fans of cruises, one thing is for sure.
Cruises are super popular. People love the idea, right, hop
(03:42):
on a boat, get away from it all. See a
couple foreign countries. Maybe. Uh, the practice of cruising recreationally
entirely for pleasure, you know, where you don't have to
bring home, like spoils of war or or salmon to
smoke or something. Uh, it dates back for a while.
It began with the formation something called the Peninsular and
(04:04):
Oriental Steam Navigation Company in eighteen twenty two. Now, they
started out as just a shipping company. They're gonna take
your stuff, put it on a boat, and take it
somewhere else wherever you need it to be. But then
they realized, hey, maybe there's something else to this. They
were going on routes between England and the Iberian Peninsula,
and they adopted that named Peninsular Steam Navigation Company from
(04:28):
that peninsular routing that they were taking. That's a great
word to peninsula. I feel like that some law enforcement
officer probably uses that in a sobriety test, like repeat
the following words to me, right, rural juror peninsula. Yes,
anyway they Yeah, Matt is absolutely correct. They began actually
(04:51):
as a they began traveling to this peninsula and to
Egypt to deliver mail as as a poo stool route.
But uh, they began becoming, you know, known for this
great route and you could ride along for a nominal fee.
The first vessel built just for luxury cruising came only
(05:11):
a few decades later, uh the Prinzastion Victoria Louise of Germany,
designed by a guy with the name get this, Albert
Balling designing ships stack in duckets. And that was the
nineteen hundred and so. Now fast forward to as we
(05:31):
record this, cruise ships are popular around the globe, and
the every market trend just indicates that they will become
even more popular in the coming years. Wouldn't the full
name be pleasure cruise. It's a pleasure cruise. Yeah, that's
a really good point, pleasure cruise. There's a wide variety
(05:52):
of pleasures taking a pleasure cruise to pleasure island. That's nice.
And it is strange to think of how harrowing a journey,
a long boat trip would be and has been throughout history,
Like how many people die when you take a long
ship journey. Back in the day, even not long before
(06:14):
this time in ninet you would have serious issues with
having enough food and water on the ship for enough
of the people and be comfortable there. And if sickness
was a major and like you know, sanitary conditions and
spreading disease, you know, and people hear about people getting
you know, scurvy and whatnot and like you know, malnutrition. Yeah,
(06:37):
I would think, uh, the idea of a pleasure cruise
had to be a pretty big marketing push to make
that fly. And also probably you know, for the wealthy,
the ones who got to hang out up top while
we know that the steerage you know, down below was
where the I guess the employees and some of the
less um fortunate passengers got to hang out. And honestly, guys,
(07:01):
it hasn't changed since then. Yeah, in the sea are
of the air? Have you have you flown coach? And
why are there always new weird gradations of Luxurian planes.
There's like economy economy plus they don't ever say coach anymore.
They don't change anything though, they just change the wording.
I mean, all these planes that you fly on there
(07:21):
like the same ones from they still have ash trays
in the that we're not talking about planes, but I
think it is a good comparison. So the market predictions
estimate that by almost twenty five million people will take
a cruise each year, and of course, disasters occur in
every industry, and when something goes wrong in the world
(07:42):
of cruise ships, people can die. One of the most
famous cruise ship tragedies. Yes, that's true, folks. We are
getting to a point here. It's not just us talking
about whether we're going to take a cruise. We are
exploring one of the most infamous tragedies in modern hour
time history, the sinking of the Titanic bummer. I didn't
(08:05):
sign up for that. I thought we were just gonna
talk about cruises. Well, they didn't sign up to sink
or did they? Like, wait, never mind, if you want
to refund on your ticket for the podcast, then we'll
have to sell tickets. There's some cool stuff here, you guys.
The stuff that I was not aware of, and it
certainly was not addressed in James Cameron's blockbuster smash Titanic
(08:29):
A Love Story, which allegedly have you heard the rumor
about they got dosed with LSD or something like that. Oh,
I will. With the making of the film, I heard
that James Cameron really just wanted to explore the wreckage
in a submarine. He made that movie too, and he
did the Mariannae Trench and his little tiny subec but no,
(08:49):
I heard that he was such a monster that like
somebody dosed was trying to dose him with LSD and
ended up like dosing all of the food on the
spread or something like that, or the coal crew and
cast with LSD, and then they ended up causing some issues.
That would that work? Would that work someone with don't
(09:09):
don't worry, we won't put you on blast, but someone
with the experience in that in that field, let us
know if experience endosing multiple people, well, if LSD would
work in food. I had never heard that. That's fascinating. Oh,
you guys, I found it. So apparently it was some
much l s D laced chowder that was intended for
Mr Cameron, but others ended up eating it, and the
(09:32):
assistant This is on an I on nine article, by
the way, excellent side uh. The assistant director apparently got
so freaked out that he stabbed James Cameron in the
face with a pencil. Oh my gosh. Well, also, you
shouldn't eat other people's chowder. There are multiple lessons to
learn here, and and and the history of the well.
I don't know if the history of the real Titanic
(09:54):
is as interesting in bizarre as that historical note on
the home. But we do have the history of the
actual Titanic too, which is relatively LSD free. Yes, it
dates back to nineteen o seven when a guy named
James Bruce Ismay who was the son of this other
guy named Thomas. He founded the White Star line of
(10:15):
ocean liners on the idea that people would travel farther
by ship if the vessels were just luxury is enough
for them to to want to stay on that ship
like a pleasure cruz. Yeah, the idea of I don't
want to be on a ship for two days, but
if I can go bowling on that ship, maybe I will.
If there's a tub, if it's opulent, if there are servants,
(10:39):
if I can drink, and as much as I want,
whenever I want. Sure. For some reason, I feel like
people in the early twentieth century did that anyway. Yeah,
I just feel like getting drunk on a cruise ship
would be a recipe for disaster, because it's like, what
if he even have mild sea sickness, wouldn't that be
just exacerbated by you know, alcohol consumption. I don't know.
(11:00):
That's I I wonder if you I imagine that many
people uh, become acclimated to it. If they're on for
a week, get your sea legs, get your sea legs. Yes, exactly.
And mostly people are on the slots or in the casino,
just so you know, on a cruise ship. So part
of the reason that Ismay was inspired to do this
(11:23):
he had a partner, Lord Peery, who was chairman of
Harland and Wolf shipbuilders, and Pery kept talking about the
Mauritania and the Lusitania, which were the newest vessels of
something called the Cunard line. Ismay and Perry were convinced
that they could create bigger and better and more luxurious ships.
(11:46):
So then they imagined three giants, the Gigantic, which would
isn't that an awesome name? It later would change his
name to the Brittenant, right, much more luxurious sounding, the
Olympic and the Titanic. The Titanic and these shifts when
but they're gonna be so posh, you guys, you have
(12:08):
no idea how posh they're gonna be. They're gonna be fast,
they're gonna be so safe. We're gonna get you there
in style, and they're huge. I mean, yeah, Gigantic was
an appropriate name. It just doesn't have the same ring
as Britannic. Yeah, but then you you think Titanic is
after titan, which is another just giant thing, saying titan
(12:29):
or giant. I wonder if they had another name for
Olympic and we're just too embarrassed to put it in
the history books. Was it just big big lee, big boy,
big boy, big an? Uh? So the Titanic itself was,
you know, not ironically named. It was almost ut long,
(12:50):
and it was almost ninety three ft wide. It weighed
almost forty five thousand tons. It had two reciprocating engines,
each of which were about four stories tall. That's incomprehensible
for me. There were there were three propellers. Two of
them were like a little over twenty three ft in diameter,
(13:15):
and then there was one. There was a four blade
propeller that was seventeen feet um near the ship's seventeen
feet in diameter, near the ship's rudder, and it could
make it enough. It could generate enough horsepower to get
it to the insane speed of twenty seven point six
miles per hour, which I know does not sound impressive,
but again, this thing is like NT long to that huge. Yeah,
(13:38):
and then stopping it is an issue, right, And the
ship was so massively Titanic that it actually could not
be constructed on existing docks and launching sites, so they
actually had to build a whole new set of docks
called the White Star Docks, and the Great Gantree, which
was a series of fifteen massive cranes that allowed them
(14:03):
to accommodate all of the moving parts of the ship
building process. So the Titanic was finished in nine twelve,
and it took an estimated eleven thousand people to build it.
I can't even picture what that would like. How do
you even like manage eleven thousand people? Is like an
Egyptian period? I was thinking the same thing. It's insane
(14:26):
and all in all, um, the cost was an estimated
seven point five million dollars, which today would amount with
inflation to about a hundred and eighty nine million, six thousand,
seven hundred and seven dollars and ninety cents. And that's
in seventeen dollars. And here's the big thing. They called
(14:48):
it unsinkable. Spoiler. Really gotta follow through with that kind
of promise, you know, they were all they were so
so very wrong. And here lies the kernel of today's episode.
K E r in y L not not, Colonel. Let's
do a commercial break and we are back. As you know, uh,
(15:17):
well as we we make very few assumptions on this show,
but for this we're just going to assume that everyone
knows that the Titanic is indeed sinkable and sank. What
you may not know is the true story of how
this disaster occurs. We're gonna set the scene for you
and walk through this pretty quickly, hopefully. And uh, we're
(15:39):
relying a lot on some excellent work by our colleagues
at how Stuff Works website on their article how the
Titanic Worked, which you can read for more information. But
things are eventually gonna get crazy, right, yes? Cool. The
ship sets sail from its launching site in Belfast to Southampton,
England in April of nineteen twelve. Titanic pick up the
(16:00):
passengers from England and moved along to France and then
to Queenstown, Ireland to get the rest. Collectively, there were
about two thousand, two hundred eight passengers and eight hundred
officers and crew. So, going back to the class system
we mentioned earlier, there were three nine first class travelers
(16:20):
several of whom were titans of industry, the giants of industry,
So I don't say tighten all the time. Two and
eighty five second class travelers and seven hundred and ten
third class travelers. So let's break down some of these
classes really fast. Let's look at the cream of the
crop of that first class. We're talking primarily wealthy industrialists
(16:41):
and the people that they call their families, hopefully actually
their families, sure their personal servants. And among these people
were well too well known John Jacob Astor, the fourth
of the Astor family that you may have heard of
before on this show, one of these wealthy families that
made their money on what ben opium? Opium, not all
(17:05):
of it, but a lot of it exactly. Uh. And
then JP Morgan another name that you have heard before, undoubtedly,
and Mr Morgan was forced to cancel his passage due
to in certain reason. Here there are so many different
reasons that have been given for him having to cancel.
He says one thing, other people see him doing other things.
(17:27):
Will explore it a little later. Among the second class
passengers were businessmen, members of the clergy. Uh. There were
also UH teachers and a chauffeur who were traveling second
class and then third class or steerage. The part where
who was that actor Leonardo DiCaprio, That's where he would
(17:49):
have been in the in the Titanic film. First class
tickets were pretty expensive, round to forty five hundred dollars.
That's between forty four thousand and a little over eighty
thousand today. Whoa an eighty thousand dollar ticket? Now granted
(18:11):
that's top of the line. Yeah, I'm sure you essentially
have an apartment on the sea at that point. Yeah,
But then you look at the third class ticket and
it's going to be obtained for around thirty five dollars
at the time or six d dollars. Now, wow, it's selling.
We're qvcns for which one for the third class list
steerage six hundred, six hundred bucks today's dollars. But no,
(18:34):
I know, but it's saying, like, you know, even for
today's dollars, if I'm paying six hundred, I would expect
more than steerage. Yeah, but six hundred dollars to how
many day cruise? You know, you're talking multiple days ship.
It's not like all that stuff. But let me also
point out that for that ticket. I don't know if
we have the cer notes, but it is true that
(18:56):
the conditions did radically differ. There were two baths for
everybody in third class, like two bathtubs for seven hundred people.
But that's also where all the sweet Irish dancing took place. Yes,
if we are, if we are to believe the excellent
documentary by James Cameron. Right, uh, yeah, and alright, so
fast forward. It's April fourteenth, nine twelve, third day of
(19:20):
the of the voyage. The water is around twenty eight
degrees fahrenheit. That's very cold, dangerously cold if you're out
in the open ocean. Around noon of that day, the
tit Tanics Marconi wireless operators. They had a Marconi radio,
very cutting edge at this time, but also very new technology. Uh.
(19:40):
They received the first of what would be a total
of four cautionary messages about large ice flows ahead. They
got a second message of five thirty five from a
ship that reported three icebergs just nineteen miles north of
Titanic's path, and just one hour before the collision. Vessel
(20:02):
named the Californian message the Titanic, we are stopped and
surrounded by ice and Apparently the person who was manning
the Marconi that's what they called it at that time.
Person his man and the Marconi on the Titanic replied,
shut up, I am busy. I am working cape race
the captain and Captain Smith wasn't worried about icebergs. After all,
(20:23):
he was piloting a mass or captain in rather a
massive steel behemoth. Instead, the story goes, he was concerned
about shattering speed records set by other massive maritime behemoths.
I can imagine that taking your mind off of what's
around you and just focusing on the instrumentation going on.
And he tried to be you know, he tried to
(20:45):
be responsible. It is his job. So he told an
officer named Lyteler, who was stationed on the captain's bridge,
that if the night became too hazy, he should be
alerted immediately and they would slow the ship's speed. But
the night was clear, and so the Titanic sped on.
There were two officers, won by the name of Frederick Fleet,
(21:07):
the other Reginald Lee, who were in the observation port um.
Fleet was getting to the end of his shift when
he saw the iceberg and said, iceberg ahead, thank you.
So they sounded the alarm and they called down to
the bridge, and a full thirty seven seconds passed before
the first officer, William M. Murdoch, shut off the engines,
(21:27):
dropped the watertight doors, um to the bottom compartments. Because
the ship was made up of these different compartments that
were able to flood and keep the water from spreading elsewhere.
And that's a big issue that led to the ultimate
sinking of the ship, was that these things did not
work as expected. Um, So he killed the engines, shut
the doors, and turned the ship away from its front
(21:50):
end so that the iceberg. Uh So they took the
hit on the side of the ship right right. They
did not have enough time to make a complete stop
or even to turn a way. Stopping the ship would
have required a half mile in This iceberg was nine
feet from the ship. Yeah, that's that. Um oh, no
moment if you're in your car and you're in traffic
(22:12):
or something and you realize you have to stop, but oh,
I'm too close to fully apply the brakes here. I'm
gonna have to go to the side of this vehicle
or something. Yeah, And I mean what ended up happening
was the iceberg just kind of shredded the side of
the ship. It dragged along the edge of it, right,
creating a huge scar that just hemorrhaged, you know, And
(22:32):
for a few minutes, Uh, it looked like their last
second maneuver may have worked. From the surface, the ship
appeared to have missed the iceberg, but underneath, whereas we know,
icebergs are much larger. Right, protruding fragment of ice ripped
a hole through the Titanic hull. Just like Noll said,
if the ship was shuddering or or showing initial and
(22:56):
irregularities in movement, it was subtle and went undetected or
excused as the heavy groaning machinery. When Captain Smith surveyed
the flood damage, he and a philom named Thomas Andrews
said the hole must be nearly three feet wide, but
in reality it was a tear uh smaller. It was smaller.
It was like six lacerations about three and a half
(23:17):
square feet. But not only did the captain's navigation attempt
not work, it made things worse and moved the Titanic
from the sturdiest place to withstand the impact to the
most vulnerable point. And even the smallest gash caused these
terrible results. So earlier we mentioned how the compartments could
close right and these water tight things to prevent the
(23:39):
spread of floodwater. Five of the ship's compartments had already
begun to flood, and Captain Smith said the ship was
going to sink. Unquestionably we have He predicted about an
hour or an hour and a half left before it
would slip to the bottom of the Atlantic. And here's
the thing. The Titanic didn't just sink. There are reports
(24:01):
from my witnesses that testified that it actually broke completely
in half, and the science actually supports these accounts. You
see the middle of the ship that you've got all
the stress of these um the water filled compartments that
we're talking about, right, that's a ton of weight. And
as one of the like ends began to keel out
(24:21):
of the water like come up and rise, you've got
all that weight in the center and it just broke
the thing in half. There's so much pressure there. The
stress reached around thirty five hundred pounds per square inch
on the boat deck itself, and that's fifty more stress
than this whole ship was meant to take. There were
plenty of life jackets to go around, that's the good news.
(24:41):
They were built of cork, which is weird, but not
so weird back then, one would hope. However, there was
of the two thousand, two hundred eight passengers and almost
nine hundred crew members, uh, it was room for only
eleven hundred and seventy six for them in the lifeboats.
At twelve am so April fifteenth, now, the captain gave
(25:05):
the crew orders to start lowering the lifeboats, leading the
first class passengers to the boat deck. Uh, and they
were when Billy Zane kicked that little girl off the lifeboat?
Was Billy's all? Yeah, no, not not the disparage, but
I mean Billy's And the actor playing a jerky first
class passenger who was Rose's original love interest, but as
(25:29):
it turned out, the scrappy young lad Leonardo Dicafrio won
her heart at least. Well, no, I think she was
in love with him. She was in love with Is
it okay to spoilt Titana? I think so? That's sort
of like spoiling the assassination of a ram wing? Right,
So there were fourteen lifeboats that could carry sixty five
(25:51):
people to emergency sea boats that could carry thirty five people,
and four collapsible boats that can carry forty nine people.
By two am, all these boats have been lowered, half
of the ship's passenger and crew still remained. And that
part from the film is a true story. The band
did play on as the ship sank. Those folks have
(26:12):
some real they have real spine, They have a lot
of sand. You know. Yeah, I'm trying to think of
a family friendly way to say, Yeah, that's it's gonna
go with first. Actually, uh, they played the song of choice.
They played if this is ever in a very bizarre
maccabre trivia game for you. The song of choice was
(26:34):
Nearer My God to the which is a old hymn.
When a ship called the Carpathia arrived to rescue survivors,
they found a floating disaster. You know, lifeboats are adrift,
passengers are shivering to death, surely deeply traumatized. The ship
got fourteen boats and seven survivors, which means more than
(26:57):
passengers and crew were dead. And I'm sure maybe not
this specifically, but you know regulations now would require you
not to book more people than you have safety equipment
for right, I mean that's that pretty big oversight. You know,
people buy tickets with that you know, six dollar inflated
ticket value price for that low level. Also, that's where
(27:18):
the flooding happened too, was down in steer age, and
they were you know, having to deal with that, and
then they get up top escape only to realize that
they are doomed. Yeah. Apparently the third class passengers were
not allowed up until the first and class at first
and second class passengers have been accounted for, which is
just disgusting. Every time, every time I think I've got
(27:42):
a handle on humanity's dark potential, man, something like this happens.
This show is changing me. Yeah. Well, there's something to
be said about cruising in a place where if you
do fall into the water, it's over pretty quickly like that.
I don't know that. Yeah, it just seems like a
(28:05):
really bad idea unless you've got like contingency upon contingency,
you know. But then also, you know, this is the
top of the line. It's best in class ship right
right right, but apparently not unbreakable or unable. Uh so
that's the official story. Uh, it's a tremendous loss of life,
(28:29):
financial catastrophe, a cultural catastrophe. The Titanic will spend almost
a century rotting at the bottom of the ocean, creating,
you know, a new shipwreck ecosystem. Right, and that is
the official story. But what if there were something more
to this story? Here's where it gets crazy. So, as
(28:50):
with any large scale disaster in the modern age, we
all know this, alternative theories about the Titanic begin to
circulate in the years following the events. So we got
together and looked at some of the most prevalent, uh,
some of the most plausible, which there are a few
that might surprise you, and of course the strangest. So
(29:11):
what do we have? Not so fast, you guys. First
we have to hear a word from our sponsor. You rogue.
The first theory surrounding the sinking of the Titanic is
when you may have heard, and it has to do
with the global banking elites that sank their ship to
(29:35):
kill off their opponents. And people who think that this
is true believe that this was essentially um an assassination
of sorts a U scatter shot, a wide shot assassination
attempt on several highly important people in the banking world.
I feel like there was a like a British crime
(29:56):
show I saw where there was a storyline involving a
mass murder that was actually trying to assassinate a very
specific group of people, but just killed a bunch of
people to cover the tracks of the motive. This is
kind of like that make it look like an accident. Well,
we know that people have bizarre plane crashes often. Um,
(30:16):
so this, this then would be an act of terrorism.
Who were they actually after? You know what? They weren't
killing the purposely killing the entire boat. They wanted a
few people, right, like like Nolan is mentioning, well, well
you got the aster, whether the gentleman aster, John Jacob
Isidor Strauss and Benjamin Googgenheim another familiar name you know,
(30:40):
rings a little something there of the Guggenheim like museum
and all that. Yes, all were millionaires, and they were
all opposed to this idea of creating a central bank,
a private central bank, within the United States because it's
going to negatively affect their personal fortunes. And you know,
the fingers that they've got in the pies of the
banking world inside the US. They hate that analogy. I know,
(31:03):
it's like have you ever seen somebody actually have their
finger in a pie saw a movie back in the
early two thousand. That's American pine. It wasn't a finger, right, Yes,
you're right, okay, pictures the humanity and the pie. But
(31:26):
but yeah, I see, I see what you're saying. So
these three men, in particular, according to this theory, were
against the formation of the Federal Reserve. Oh yes, the
creature from jek'l Island. Yes, so named because the plans
for the Federal Reserve were controversially created in a fancy
(31:46):
pants island off the coast of Georgia, the state, not
the country, uh, in nineteen thirteen. So it is a
controversial thing, privatizing, you know, the central bank for an
entire country. Whoa, whoa, whoa whoa. The word we use
now is quasi government, quasi government. And okay, So according
(32:06):
to this uh, JP Morgan and Rocke Rockefeller in the
various franchises. Excuse me, families of the Rothchild thing. We're
conspiring to remove what could be uh substantive opposition. Here's
the thing. It's true that JP Morgan had a personal
(32:29):
suite aboard the ship with his own private deck. If
he could believe that and uh he had a customized
you know, living area in there. Uh. He was booked
on the ship's maiden voyage, but instead he canceled the trip.
And you you may you heard us earlier allude to
(32:50):
what the various reasons why what did what did you
guys hear? Oh man, I heard all kinds of stuff.
I heard he said he wasn't feeling so well, so
he was gonna stay home and and combat s. But
he may have just stayed in France. Remember how we
were saying how the Titanic left went over to France
and then went to Ireland. Well, it seems that he
(33:11):
he stayed in the French resort to enjoy, you know,
some morning massages, some sulfur baths. That the kind of
things you do when you're a Morgan. Sulfur bath. Sulfur bath.
It's like a bathroom with sulfur instead of water. Yeah, No,
I am, so, I am lying. I am I'm not.
Are you lying because you don't know? No, I I
imagine I don't know for sure, but I imagine for
(33:32):
exfoliation or something. Heel like, if it's supposed to be restorative.
I mean, this is a time when people really believed
in curative springs, so it was probably a natural, naturally
occurring uh water source that had sulfurous content in the water.
Smells how the animals going on around this? Yeah, yeah,
John Harvey Kellogg and it smells great in a sulfur
(33:55):
bathroom and yogurt all over your parts. Not to mention
the guy who in Graham Crackers, that's a whole another,
that's a whole another his story, and we'll leave that
for another day ziplock full of gummy bears. The whole
point is that Morgan's abrupt cancelation, the decision to not
be on the ship, seems suspicious at all, and we
(34:18):
will also just as side note, this is so interesting,
we will also do another episode in the future if
you would like, on the bizarre, strange origins of commonplace
snacks and silverware another seemingly innocuous products. You were absolutely right, Matt,
this last minute cancelation, whatever reason he did, apparently the
(34:38):
story is and there was last minute, if fueled speculation
that he had advanced knowledge of the fate of the Titanic,
and there are there are a few variations in this
theory and in some versions um the three men on
the boat were opposed to income tax legislation. Chronologically, that
(34:59):
one doesn't really work out, UM, according to other people,
the Jesuits for some reason, Lord these men on their ship. Uh.
We we should point out that there is also not UM.
There's not a lot of hard evidence on on this
fill in particular. And while we do know that maybe
(35:19):
UM plane crashes can occur, we know that there have
been questionable deaths or air quote accidents before UM. This
seems like it's asking a lot like who would who
would bring down UM a ship that's worth a hundred
(35:40):
and ninety million dollars to kill three people. That's exactly
my thought of spending that much money to make the
ship and only to have it, you know, destroyed, unless
you're getting insurance. There's also like there's better ways to
assassinate people easier, not that they don't rely on hitting
an ice, right. Yeah, it seems like a lot of
(36:03):
happenstance going on here. It's like a Rube Goldberg, really
is I mean, it would be brilliant, It would be brilliant,
but I fear this is a stretch. Some of the
other ones, though, are a little less stretchy. Well, here's
here's the other thing, like, did what if the Titanic
never sank at all? That's a real one that I well,
(36:24):
it's a real one. It's on here outline with which
I was not familiar. So we said earlier that there
were three boats in this giant class, right, Uh, the Gigantica,
the Massifania, the Big Boy Big Boy, and uh huh
and little Nuggets whatever their names are. Their official names
(36:47):
when they launched were the Olympic, the Britannic, and the Titanic. Uh.
What if Some people argue the Titanic, rather than sinking,
was the victim or beneficiary of identity theft? What if
it was switched at the last minute for its sister ship,
the Olympia. I just don't understand why you would do that.
(37:11):
The Titanic is the big reason, Like this is the
thing you're showing off. According to the most famous proponent
of this theory, writer named Robin Gardiner, there's much more
to the story. H Gardner wrote a book called Titanic,
The Ship that Never Sank? Can you hear the question
mark we put in there? There we go perfect? So
(37:31):
this author looks at several other events and coincidences that
occurred in the months, days hours leading up to the disaster,
and concludes the ship that sank was actually the Olympic
disguised as the Titanic, and it was an insurance scam
by the owners of the owners of the concern, which
(37:51):
was the International Mercantile Marine Group who bought White Star
Line in nineteen o two, and the controller of the
Marine Group was JP Morgan, J p oh, JP heavy
J himself. Okay, alright, alright, So the Olympic, check this out,
was the slightly older sister of the Titanic and was
(38:12):
launched in October of nineteen ten, so a couple of
years earlier. The exterior profile was nearly identical to the Titanic,
save for a few minor details when we're talking about
stuff like the number of portholes on one area of
the ship. So here's one example of Gardner's argument. Uh
Gardner says the bullships were built with linoleum floors, but
(38:34):
shortly before she was due to set sail. J. Bruce
is May, the director of White Star Line, inexplicably ordered
the floors aboard Titanic be carpeted over. There's something else
the motivation in this theory is that the Olympic had
already been involved in a couple of accidents, and that
(38:54):
this would essentially be an insurance scam. So you'd collect
the insured us of the Titanic for sinking the Olympic, Right,
but you would still be, you know, killing hundreds of people. Yeah,
you would essentially be killing hundreds of people for a
little less than our day, our modern equivalent of two
(39:15):
hundred million dollars. Sure, I mean, what do you think
the uh the value of a human life was in
in in ninete just thinking the same thing. We should
calculate that and bring it back in another episode. What
is our value? Ye oh boy, that's a good one.
They like that as a title. Yeah, what is the
value of human life? But now, I mean, I don't
(39:37):
know that. I said things were getting a little less
stretchy because I don't know captains of industry or monsters
a lot of the time. And uh, I don't think
I would put it past a JP Morgan type too,
value and investment over the lives of hundreds of people. Actually, yeah,
I can. I mean, in principle I can absolutely agree,
(39:59):
because I mean, yeah, it would be harder to do
if it wasn't like actually an active event when it
took I'm saying, like, you can't just blow up the
ship at dry dock. People ask questions about that, but like,
you know, but then again, how do you force it
to hit an iceberg? Like did they mess with the route?
(40:20):
Like what how would you accomplish this? Right? I think
that's a perfect setup, nol, because we're going to go
into theories about accidental occurrences, but I think within those
we're also going to find something that could lend a
little credence to or answer perhaps the question of how
someone would intentionally do this. And just to jump in
(40:42):
here talking about insurance, for you know, we're discussing how
people are definitely gonna collect insurance on this. This was
a huge investment, right, No matter what happens to the Titanic,
if something bad happens, the people that own it are
for sure going to try and collect as much as
they possibly can on it, right, even like it doesn't
matter they in their mind. I can't say what they're thinking,
(41:07):
but it doesn't matter how many people got hurt or
died for the collecting of their insurance. Right, I see
what you're saying yeah, and it is tough to ascribe
motive without you know, hard documentation. Well, let's go into
even less stretchy I like that turn less stretchy theories. Uh,
the idea of possible accidental occurrences one and this is
(41:29):
so terrible possible wrong turn. Louise Patton, who's the granddaughter
of the ship's most senior surviving officer, the man we mentioned,
Charles Lighthowlder, claims that he told his wife a crew
member turned the ship quote the wrong way and into
the course of the iceberg after officer William Murdoch first
spotted it and gave a hard starboard order. The cruise
(41:54):
Liner was operating under two communication systems that were in
direct conflict with one another, and in two thousand ten,
Louise Patton told The Guardian UK paper that a command
to turn hard to starboard mint turn the wheel right
under one system and left under the other. Because I
would imagine they would have maps of known iceberg areas
(42:18):
right or like, you know, if there was a cluster,
they probably would have been charted. I would think it
would be a little difficult because they could be mobile.
That's true, but so but but so the communication systems
we're talking about here, there are largely visual and verbal. Well,
yeah they were on These were on the ship too,
But we have to keep in mind they got numerous warnings.
(42:39):
There were at least four different warnings throughout the day
leading up to the accident after midnight. So interesting, Yeah,
so they kept on. Maybe the captain was a bit
arrogant speaking. I just said, it's tough to ascribe motive,
and I like, listen to this guy. Well, there are
(42:59):
other things to write. There were questions about whether or
not the actual materials that were used to build the
ship were possibly not up to snuff, or even a
shortage of viewing binoculars u a shortage of an ability
to view icebergs that had the potential to be a problem,
which is tough, you know when you think about it.
(43:20):
If if that is true, if there were weak ship
building materials, if there was a shortage of binoculars and
a shortage of lifeboats, this is starting to sound more
and more like some corners were being cut outside of
the public eye. Here is the most plausible, and this
might answer that earlier question about how someone could purposely
(43:42):
plan to pull an insurance scam if that's what if
that actually happened, is the most plausible or less at
least the least implausible that a coal fire either significantly
contributed to or is directly responsible for the disaster. There's
this urnalists named sent On Maloney. I'm going to call
(44:04):
you Mr Maloney because I'm not sure if I'm pronounce
your name correctly. Uh. Maloney is a documentary called Titanic
The New Evidence, and in it he argues that a
fire ha been smoldering and Bunker number six, one of
the ship's coal bunker boiler rooms of the Titanic since
the ship left Belfast, so was burning the whole time.
(44:26):
And um, it sounds crazy, but it's true that coal
coal has the ability to combust like this. Uh. Near
that bunker is where the iceberg tore the biggest hole
in the ship on its maiden voyage. According to The Independent,
Maloney claims photos of the Titanic show dark marks on
(44:46):
the side of the ship not facing the dock, hinting
at existing fire and that should never been put to sea.
And we have a quote from Maloney for you. The
official Titanic Inquiry branded the sinking as an act of God.
This isn't a simple story of colliding with an iceberg
and sinking. It's a perfect storm of extraordinary factors coming together, fire, ice,
(45:12):
and criminal negligence. It was very Game of Thrones that
really stoked to watch the finale tonight. So yeah, I
wasn't even expecting the fire and ice bit. He goes on.
I don't know why he talks like this, but he
just he does. I guess um. We have experts telling
us that when you get that level of temperature against steel,
it makes it brittle and reduces its strength by up
(45:34):
to The fire was known about and briefly addressed at
the inquiry, but it was played down. It is absolutely
true that there was a fire on the ship. What
what we count is the newer revelatory or theoretical part
of this is blaming the fire for the sinking of
the ship once it hit the iceberg. Did the fire
(45:56):
create weakness in the in the metal, in the material,
According to an engineer for the Geological Society of America
and Ohio State University fellow named Robert Eisenhei, attempts to
control the coal fire and the bunker could have been
the reason the Titanic sailed so quickly through an area
littered with icebergs, So that would you know in the
(46:19):
film they're trying to set a speed record, right, and
like some kind of oceanic icarus, they go too far,
too high. My analogy is not working. So the the
reasoning here would be that they're going that quickly because
they're having an emergency. Essentially, there's a huge issue with
(46:40):
this fire. We have to get to a dock somewhere
and take care of this white possibly and to connect
the dots. Maybe JP Morgan one could argue knew about
the fire and didn't go and to connect the dots. Further,
if we're playing a little bit of bread crumb rabbit
hole game, maybe the fire is intentional. To be fair,
(47:02):
there is absolutely no hard proof of this at all.
This is this is speculative the at least the JP
Morgan's reaction to the fire. Right. There are a lot
of myths about this sort of stuff that are becoming folklore.
At this point. However, we do know that there really
was a fire, and we know that this is not
(47:25):
the end of the alternative theories because now we are
wading into the very very strange stuff with even allegations
of the paranormal. Yeah, did some man tell the future
or somehow prescribe the events that would occur to the
Titanic In a novel written in eighteen known as Futility
(47:51):
or Wreck of the titan It was a guy named
Morgan Robertson, and fourteen years before the Titanic menis Demise,
he wrote a no that had a lot of similarities
to what happened to the Titanic, and it had to
do with insurance fraud. Mm hmmm hm hm m m mmmm.
And they they think that this guy predicted It was
(48:13):
revised by the author in nineteen twelve after the Titanic sank,
to make the ship a little bigger, a little difference, Yeah,
just like make it a little more similar to the
events of the Titanic, probably to sell copies. And so
still there are multiple purported similarities between the events depicked
(48:33):
in the story and the true story of Titanic, which,
of course, for some of us will call to mind. Uh.
The famous narrative of Arthur Gordon Pim of Nantucket, written
by Edgar Allan Poe, a bizarre coincidence in a very
dark one where Poe writes a story about people lost
at sea and survival cannibalism, and then later something very
(48:57):
much like that happens. And don't you spoil that post
story for me. I think Poo did a good job
of spoiling it himself. What are you saying. I mean,
it's just not my favorite of his story. He's falling
him a hack. No, no, Just so you know, in
Robertson's tale Futility, one of the main characters or one
(49:19):
of the characters gets off onto the iceberg with I
believe a child and then is forced to do some
battle with a polar bear that is also making residents
on the iceberg. That's that's kind of fun and terrifying. Yeah,
but you know, it's a story that I would want
to read if I was in the eighteen hundreds. Speaking
of Game of Thrones, polar bears, zombie polar bears. It's
(49:45):
gonna leave that right there. I have no idea what
you're talking about. Not really a spoiler, just zombie polar bears. Okay,
I've just I've been pretending to know a Game of
Thrones is for the past several years. So Matt, please
don't give me your disappointed dad's I for one field
(50:07):
betrayed Matt. Matt's the kind of guy who would not
be mad at you, but just disappointed, which is somehow
so much worse right, uh well, speaking in fantastic segues,
there there are a couple others that are they're pretty strange.
This isn't so much a conspiracy theory as a paranormal stuff.
There was another writer in eight six, a British writer
(50:31):
named William T. Stead who had a short story called
How the Atlantic Mail Steamer Went Down. A mail steamer
in the Atlantic collides with another vessel, shortage of lifeboats
on board caused an enormous uh loss of life. More
than a decade later, Stead was a passenger on the
Titanic and he was one of the fifth around fift
(50:52):
hundred who did not make it. Whoa and then the
very last one which we saved. Because it's just so,
it's so strange and it feels more like creepy pasta
or a campfire story. One of the mystical versions of
the crash is associated with the legendary folklore Curse of
(51:12):
the Pharaohs, and no fated ship was carrying the mummy
of an ancient Egyptian priestess that belonged to Lord Centerville,
shipping it to New York via the Titanic, remember the
whole shipping days of these boats still happening. To avoid
the damage of the box with the exhibit was placed
on the captain's bridge, allegedly allegedly allegedly the case and
(51:38):
at the head of the mommy there was a statue
of Osiris, according to the story. Osiris, of course, as
we remembers, the Egyptian god of death. The words inscribed
on this were allegedly allegedly allegedly rise from the ashes
and let your eyes strike those who stand in your way.
So is it talking about the iceberg or the boat? Well,
(52:01):
you know, we could do an entire episode. I would
be surprised of our friends at stuff you missed in
history classes, stuff you should know. Haven't already done an
episode on the alleged curse of the Pharaohs. We've done one,
haven't we. I know, we did a video. We did
a video, but we haven't done write it down. Guys,
here we go, do do do? Do? Yeah? So we
(52:23):
have some great ideas for upcoming stuff. There we have.
We have the bizarre origins of otherwise innocuous things Kello Cereal,
Graham Crackers, shout out to our friends at food Stuff
who delve into some excellent history and culture of food
and if you want to check that out. And then
we also have the the Pharaoh's curse, So we hope
(52:50):
that you have um, we hope that you have enjoyed
exploring these alternative theories. At this point, most people are
the vast majority of humanity believe the official narrative, with
the strongest other contender being the idea that there was
a fire contributing to the to the disaster. The other
(53:16):
stuff is interesting and it leads us to a bunch
of different possible threads. Right, but in the end, wait,
what do you what do you guys think? For me,
it remains a tragedy that happened because of a lot
of a domino effect of things that were occurring. Um.
(53:37):
And maybe it's just I'm too deep in the official story,
but I still see it as that way. Nothing has
convinced me thus far about this stuff, although the fire
thing that's the closest I would say, Well, the official
story also has corroborating firsthand witnesses in terms of survivors,
people who were actually there I think it would be
(54:00):
amazing if somebody could replace an entire ship and disguise it.
But it's so amazing and astonishing because it it borders
on insanity in terms of planning, and it seems very difficult.
What do you think? No, I think it was those
fat cats standards of industry, just like wanting to kill
(54:24):
everybody for insurance money, and they knew they were going
to get a life both. You know, they just colluded
to I don't know, man, it's I guess it just
depends on who who holds the policy, like who specifically
holds the policy to benefit from thinking. But still, even
at that level, it feels you guys, remember that board
game mouse Trap that barely ever worked. It feels like
(54:47):
a level of unnecessary complexity comparable to mouse Trap. Even
in those days, I mean you had some semblance of like,
you know, sniper kind of equivalent to it, or pois
inning or closing someone get someone with a terminal disease
to perform a hit so that their family can benefit.
(55:07):
Oh yeah, no, that wouldn't get you the insurance money.
But what you know, what was the problem, what was
the issue? What you know? It seems like an awful
you could get if you wanted to make a quick
buck on an insurance scam. You think you do it
with like life insurance for a human or like you know,
like like building a gazillion dollar luxury liner and then
(55:30):
arranging it to sink with people on it so to
collect the insurance money. It just doesn't seem to add
up to Maybe they just got into deep. They build
three of them, right, and that is that is true,
and that would be an equivalent of just under six
hundred million dollars. But still, oh yes, that's our other episode.
We're going to find out how much each of us
(55:53):
is worth justin I think justin raw materials. It is
probably the best way, you know, like people every gonna
boil is down for the copper we did the illegal
organ trading stuff, maybe we could, uh we could figure
out like what would each of our organs be worth
on the black market, and then what would be the
lifetime value of us, like in like you know, slave labor.
(56:17):
I don't know. Yeah, yeah, that's a that's a great
episode to do. Check out the Red Market if you
have not if you haven't listened to it yet, but
do make sure you're not listening to it while you're
eating it is there is some very disturbing content in there.
And most importantly, we would like to know what you
think about these stories. One of the more interesting things
(56:40):
to us, I believe in these sorts of situations is
that so much time has passed, you know that there's
pretty um clearly cemented concept or narrative that every upon
which everybody agrees. But as we know, those sorts of
things can and be overturned often throughout human civilization, and
(57:04):
it's it's terrifying how often that can happen. We have
to remember, this is a species that totally thought Troy
was a made up city for centuries and then some
guy found it and it's real. So we'd like to
hear your take, not just on this, what on other
maritime disasters of human history, or in your opinion on cruises.
(57:24):
And if you want to find us, look for us
on Twitter and Facebook where we are conspiracy stuff. And
if you want to find us on Instagram where conspiracy
Stuff show, just add that show to the end of there.
And if you don't want to find us on social
media because you don't like using that stuff, you can
write us an email We are conspiracy at how stuff
works dot com.
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know News
Hosts And Creators
Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
Show Links
RSSStoreAboutLive ShowsPopular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com