Vaccines: Fact vs. Fiction

Through the process of vaccination, millions of people have avoided serious (at times fatal) medical conditions, but opposition to the practice began almost immediately after vaccinations became widespread. And in the modern day the anti-vaccination movement has seemed to gain more ground than before -- so what's going on here? Join the guys as they dive into the history of vaccination, the claims of the anti-vaxx movement and why some people insist there's a conspiracy afoot.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Gradios How Stuff Works. Hello, welcome

(00:24):
back to the show. My name is Matt, my name
is Noel. They called me Ben. We are joined as
always with our super producer Paul Mission controlled decade. Most importantly,
you are you, You are here, and that makes this
stuff they don't want you to know and hoof, this
is a doozy. But first, as we've been doing recently,
let's let's check in. Uh, Noel, how are you doing?

(00:46):
You're doing okay. I'm still kind of nursing this scooter
injury to my arm. I'm at about maybe last time,
I was at sixty five, steadily on the mend. Yeah,
you've been shaking hands with your right end. Yes, but
it really sucks when someone has a really, really powerful handshake.
It sets me back a couple of percentage points. Powerful handshakes.

(01:09):
There's such a literally a weird flex. I think so too.
What about you, Matt, how's it going. I've been practicing
my power shakes, my power handshakes. You know, I'm great.
Everything's everything's good. There's a new Magic the Gathering set
coming out one of our one of our super mods.
I believe it was Zach who recently had a birthday,

(01:30):
So happy birthday to use Zach. Uh just pointed it out.
We were talking on our behind the scenes chat. Nice.
I'm still behind on all that I need to catch
up again, but happy birthday, zach in. Thanks for letting
us know. And your birthday is coming up as well,
so act surprised and don't buy any magic cards. So well,
you know what. We all have the same birthday month, right,

(01:52):
except for Paul, except for Paul on Manoun Paul Mission Control. Paul,
I believe is in September. Paul, how are you doing?
Thumbs up, thumbs down, thumbs up speaking, yes, he does well.
Speaking of birthdays, Uh, we're going to talk about something
that that occurs on well around your first birthday and

(02:12):
then in theory and then continues to happen to you
and Uh in scheduled times throughout your life, depending on
where you live and if you decide to do it,
if you can or cannot, again depend on where you live,
because in some places it is mandatory no if sands
or butts, and before we tell you the episode. For
everyone who doesn't read the titles before they before they listen, Uh,

(02:37):
what we're exploring today is going to be a bit
of a hot topic, even for us, not the store us.
So as you're listening along, don't hesitate. If you have input,
feel free to just pause the podcast and give us
a call. Yeah, one three three std w y t
k uh. You have three minutes. You can call back

(02:59):
if you need to ex bound further, but make the
best use of your time, and most importantly, let us
know if you do not want us to air what
you said. We're not going to stop the show to
take your call, but we will get it eventually and then, um,
you know, use that on a later call in show.
That's right. And by the way, we have entirely too
many messages right now for me to go through all
of them, so we might have to divide that up.

(03:20):
That's right, Yeah, Matt, that's on my list. I will
I will take some of this burden off you, and
thank you for being a one man army there. Just
give me that ring Central log in and I'll get
the appen have it on my phone so it wakes
me up in the middle of the night too. And
speaking of speaking of waking up or being woke, we
are finally doing it. Folks, fellow conspiracy realist, true believers

(03:45):
and hardcore skeptics alike. This is the episode on vaccination, Paul,
can we get a dramatic sound cue? Perfect? Depending upon
who you ask, vaccines are either absolute lifesavers, human lives,
not the candy which is awesome favorite flavors cherry obviously,

(04:06):
or if you ask someone else, they may be something
sinister pushed upon the population through false and misleading information.
For our part here, we wanted to explore this by
looking at the history of vaccination, the history of anti
vaccination movements, sort of the shadow of vaccination is that
has been there for as long as widespread vaccination existed,

(04:28):
and the current state of health today, with a little
bit about the trends going into twenty and the near
to mid future. Spoiler alert, we do not get to
everything that will probably have to be later episodes about this,
related both to feedback from our fellow listeners and different
topics such as UH, forced vaccinations in the military or

(04:53):
in prisons and so on. However, at the offset. We
need to be very very crystal clear. Year. We do
have an agenda. We have We have a single agenda
the four of us in today's episode, and that is
tracing the causes and motivations behind various allegations of conspiracy
in this subject. We were not prevented from making this episode,

(05:15):
nor were we warned against it. We were not told
to find some specific conclusion by any third party. I
know a lot of folks have written to us and said, uh,
I Heart is making you do things. Guys are show
they don't even listen to it. Yeah, Heart, Heart does
not care what we do. We've got bigger fish to fry,

(05:35):
exactly exactly. To be completely clear, We've never been told
what to do or not to do ever, no matter
what the parent company, and this is absolutely no exception,
right right. A few years back, I think we mentioned
this previously a few years back, we were asked by
Discovery Communications to do one thing, and I talked about this,

(05:58):
and here's where it gets crazy. We were asked to
do a They put out this fairly exploitative, manipulative thing
purporting to be a documentary about the discovery of Mermaids,
and they asked us to do an episode as if
it were a real thing, and we refused. We just
made one about the folklore about surrounding mermaids. Right, we

(06:20):
were super We were super shady to to our parent
company the entire time. And that's where the line between
like sponsored content and fake news kind of comes into play, right,
Like it's one thing to do kind of a hoax
show to try to prop up some kind of like
you know, big event television thing, but it's another thing
to say, well, hey, okay, y'all do your thing, but

(06:41):
we're going to do something that maybe is in the
same vein as this. But we're not going to be
your Patsy's and pretend like mermaids are real. Yeah you
want us talk about mermaids, Okay, Well we would have anyway,
but we're not going to We're not going to actively
lie to people, and we're definitely not talking about mermaids today. No, no,
not unless there's a big plot twist that comes in
while we're recording. So the only people who mattered to

(07:06):
us in terms of this show are going to be
the people listening. So the only folks who ever told
us they'd like to hear this topic on air, were
your fellow listeners and our own. So let's get started.
The human species. There we are, UH picturesques in your head.
The human species has a long, long history of distrusting vaccines,

(07:27):
and in recent years, especially in the West, this has
become a hot button issue all over again. UH Mission
Control wanted wrote to us off air, wanted us to
want to make sure we mentioned Jessica Biel is a
new UH, a new UM. I guess they're called anti
vaxers now, I don't. I don't know about that kind

(07:48):
of labeling as a thought terminating cliche. But yes, a
lot of celebrities are picking this up, similar to the
way that many celebrities in years past fell for the
UH propaganda about a flat at Earth propagating on Twitter.
It's so look, you know, it's it's a hot button
issue now. Regardless of where you fall in the in
the conversation, a few people have probably already pulled up

(08:11):
their email or paused the recording to dial our phone
number and start writing to us. So this leads us
to the question, what the hell has been going on
here and for how long? To answer that question, we
have to define what a vaccine is So here are
the facts. A vaccine is UM a substance that's used
to stimulate UH antibodies or the production thereof and it

(08:36):
it's meant to be a guard um to increase immunity
or provide immunity UM to prevent diseases that are you know,
able to be prevented by these vaccinations UM. And they
are prepared from basically a little piece of that disease.
That's the idea. Yeah, yeah, exactly, We're creating an antidote

(09:00):
from the original poison. Essentially, to quote our science, from
dilated people's into paraphrasem. So this is treated. Vaccines are
treated just as you said. No, they act as an
antigen without inducing the actual disease. And antigen is a
toxin or other foreign substance which creates an immune response

(09:21):
in the body and helps your body teach itself to
fight a disease. So I was thinking about awkward comparisons
or analogies to this. Imagine if you could, uh, you
could be shot with a rubber bullet, would function like
a bullet, but not kill you, and then later it
just made you immune to bullets. That's kind of that's

(09:42):
that's very imperfect but it's it's kind of similar thinking,
except in this case vaccines actually work, uh, and it's
a powerful It's a powerful thing. The question is what
are they meant to do and how do they work?
The concept of vaccination is old, old, old, old old.
Several years ago we had an animated show for children
called Stuff of Genius, where we looked at great inventors

(10:05):
and inventions, and we learned that in school, many children,
especially in the West, are taught that the first vaccinations
occurred due to the efforts of a man named Edward Jenner.
Edward Jenner, according to the story, learned to successfully inoculate
people against smallpox by infecting them with another related disease,

(10:26):
cow pox. In seventeen ninety six, he inoculated a thirteen
year old boy with vaccina virus cow pox and then
demonstrated that this immunized the kid to smallpox. In sev
the first smallpox vaccine hit the hit the mainstream right
it was developed, and it is okay, I don't want

(10:47):
to dismiss this guy. It is true that Edward Jenner
changed the world. It is true that he is responsible
in a very large and profound way for widespread smallpox vaccination.
How Ever, a lot of people are taught and have
been taught that he was the first person to figure
this out. That is categorically untrue. Vaccines and vaccination techniques

(11:09):
are much much much older. Yeah, you go back to
Buddhist monks who would actually like take some snake venom
into their body, like they would drink it just enough
to get or to confer immunity to it or at
least to get some immunity to this to a snake
bite while they're walking around. And then you can also
look back even um, well even back to the seventeenth

(11:30):
century in China when there is a thing called vary
elation where they would actually smear um like cow pox
on their body, like they would just put it on
their body and then they would be immune to smallpox
in the same way that Edward Jenner used, or a
similar way that Edward Jenner used. It makes me think
of like, who's the first one to decided I'm going
to eat this mushroom and you know see what happens. Yeah,

(11:52):
it's it's it's genius, but it's also so risky, you know,
because I mean, yeah, like if you're doing this thing
with a snake venom. Surely someone took too much and
and someone had to try it again, take just the
right amount to get the immunity. It's to say, mean,
it's like a weird kind of like blunt instrument version
of science, you know, but with human lives kind of
as the collateral damage. Yeah, it's sort of. It's it's

(12:13):
brute force hacking with high attrition. We had talked about
this too with an episode we did earlier on heroin
and opium. You know, heroin and opium have done horrific
things to the worldwide community, but you have to at
some level just respect the ingenuity. It's impressive how somebody

(12:33):
figured out they saw a poppy plant and then ultimately
they said, you know what, I bet there's a way
to invent syringes to to distill this into something else.
Is gonna milk that poppy something like that. So so
there's there's this huge, uh, this huge swath of human

(12:57):
experience that has lost to time when we talk about this,
Accounts from the fifteen hundreds describe what is clearly smallpox
inoculation in both China and in India. Uh. There's a
guy named Joseph Needham who wrote a book called Science
and Civilization in China, and he talks about this in
volume six and then in the Life and Death of Smallpox. Uh,

(13:18):
it's noted that in the late sixteen hundreds, an emperor
named Kang Shi, who had survived smallpox as a child,
had his children inoculated. He was an early proponent of
this and the Yeah, the method that he used was
pretty gross. They would take they would take actual smallpox scabs,
they would grind them up like mortar and pestle style,

(13:39):
and then they would blow that into people's nostrils. Yeah,
and hence the inoculation you can get by spraying in
your nose now insulflation. Right. Uh. It's difficult to pinpoint
when this actually began, and some sources will date this
back as early as two hundred BC, but that's still

(13:59):
I mean, and that's debatable. Nobody nobody was really saying, hey,
let's record this for posterity. It's going to change the world,
at least not to the degree that you know, historians
would hope nowadays, but whatever, and whenever. The origin of
this technology over the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, systematic implementation
of mass smallpox immunization eventually led to the eradication of

(14:23):
smallpox in nineteen seventy nine in the nation. That was
a doozy of a sentence, ben, I love it. It
was across the world. No, no, I know, but you
but you had a lot of like immunization, vaccination implement
Sometimes they get carried away. It was. It was brilliant.
I had to end it within the nation. But as
you say, Ben, no, this is not just national, this

(14:44):
is global. It's so crazy to actually kill a disease.
Bill Gates is actively working. Well, that's what he says
on this sort of stuff. And then we have several
other big highlights in for the pro vaccination community. Right
then you have Louis Pasteur who was working live, as
we say, with attenuated live attenuated cholera vaccine and inactivated

(15:07):
anthrax vaccines UM, working with human subjects in seven and
nineteen o four, respectively for each of those vaccines. Then
there was plague vaccine, big deal was also invented in
the nineteenth century. Between eight and nine fifty we started
to see bacterial vaccine develop um and that included the
basilist columnat Gouran BCG vaccination. But I'm pronouncing that right,

(15:31):
which is very much still in use today. That's the
thing about a lot of this stuff, right. Uh, it
doesn't get much better once you figure it out, Like
that's the puzzle piece, you know. Well there, I mean,
there are there are some things we got wrong or
but but yeah, these are these are incredible breakthroughs. I mean,
I I don't know. I mean, maybe there's a hot take. Uh.

(15:54):
And this is just my personal opinion. I try to
keep my personal opinion of the show for big deal issues.
But uh, I would say I'm anti plague and I'm
glad that I don't have it. It's a good idea.
I think that that's a very respectable position. Maybe that's
a hot take. Uh. Nineteen twenty three, guy named Alexander
Glennie perfects a method of inactivating tetanus tocsin with formalde

(16:19):
hyde from alde hyde is bad for you. So that's
one of our first dings against the vaccine. There. The
same method that he used was used to develop a
vaccine against diph theory A in nineteen twenty six, the
same year that this building where we record the podcast
was constructed. Oh yes by a man named Mr Sears.

(16:41):
Yes true. Uh And then there was the Pertussis vaccine development.
It took a lot longer and the first uh, the
first good vaccine version of that was legal to use
in the U. S and N. But the development was
a lot tougher than the five UM. We had lots

(17:03):
of developments, advancements in viral tissue culture methods that led
to the advent of the polio vaccine, the salk or
inactivated polio vaccine, and the saban which is the live
attenuated oral polio vaccine. Polio was a ravaging disease. I mean,
it was such a problem for children. It was very communicable.

(17:25):
Clothes had to be burned. It was just absolute, almost
its own kind of mini plague, as the President's had.
That's right, because no one was safe because there was
no way around it. And now it's sort of like
a distant memory in most of the world hopefully. Yes, Uh,
let's let's look at the other side of this. While
we talked briefly about the history of vaccines, and you

(17:48):
can find some wonderful work on this and in the
other podcasts which were glad to recommend. If you're right,
there is also a history of vaccine resistance, or what
is sometimes called vaccine hesitancy or what is sometimes called
anti vaccination movements. It's tough to conjecture how local populations
felt about ancient vaccination attempts. What you want my scabs,

(18:11):
grind them up, blow them and whose knows why? These
are good questions, But more modern vaccination technology has met
some form of organized resistance since literally the early eighteen hundreds,
right when the first widespread vaccination about smallpox came out.
For some parents, the smallpox vaccination process itself induced just

(18:36):
horror and terror and protests. And it's no wonder because Matt,
you you had mentioned this before. Could you describe the
method a little? Uh? Sure? So the first thing you
do is you take a child's arm and then you
cut into it so that there's open flesh there. Then
you take the lymph, kind of the seepage out of

(18:56):
somebody who had a blister of small policy. Someone else,
a person too, who has smallpox. You take that stuff,
that liquid, and then you put it into that person's arm. Yeah,
and this person their only qualification needs to be that
they are alive, and they were vaccinated about a week earlier,

(19:18):
and so it gave blisters time to form. Uh, This
means that the person could be a stranger, they could
be someone who is a different religion, ethnicity, or community,
all three of which were huge deals back then and
for some people still are today. And then now that
person's blood or their bodily fluids are literally going to

(19:40):
be in your child. Phrase it that way. That's how people.
That's how people felt about it, and a lot of
folks who objected to this, including local clergy, believed that
the vaccine was un Christian because it came originally from
an animal. Yeah, definitely, and it will. Thinking about all
of that stuff, it really gives you a picture of
the concept of herd immunity, which is the whole point

(20:03):
of a vaccine. Right You were literally sharing from one
person to the next to make sure that we're all
going to be immune to a disease. I don't even
like to drink after people, you know what I mean?
On a fundamental level. I get this. One time I
was hanging out with a family member and they were
thirsty and they drank some water and I was like,
burn it down, that's yours. Now, I'm not. I'm not.

(20:23):
I don't care how related we may or may not be.
For for other people who are against this movement. Originally,
right when it was still very new, they didn't trust
the smallpox vaccine because they were in a way they
were they were skeptical of the science as it was

(20:43):
at the time, because they said, you know, doctors, what
do doctors know? It's not so long ago in this
part of the world, when being able to cut hair
meant that you were also qualified to perform amputations because
you had you know, cutting tools already was laying around,
and you under too how the body works, as we'll
get your tools exactly. And so they objected to edward

(21:06):
generous ideas about how smallpox spread. They said, no, you're
being foolish. This is fake news, unproven science. We all
know based on our personal feelings and our personal opinions
that this spreads because of quote decay in the atmosphere.
It does not. Lastly, many people objected to the vaccination

(21:30):
process because they thought it violated their personal liberty, their
individual rights, and this just became worse as the government
of the time developed mandatory vaccine policies. Because if you
want to make anyone to hate anything, just make it mandatory, right,
there's gonna be at least one person who was like,

(21:51):
this is b as the revolution begins. Now it does
not matter what it is. And that's when you get
the Vaccination Act of eighteen fifty three, which ordered mandatory
vacts nations for infants up to three months old. And
then you had the Act of eighteen sixty seven that
extended the age requirement to fourteen year old um and
it added some penalties for refusal to do so. Right

(22:14):
and these laws were met with immediate and vociferous resistance
from citizens who demanded not only the right to control
their own bodies, but those of their children. And they said,
you know, big government has no place telling me what
to do with my family. Uh. The Anti Vaccination League
and the Anti Compulsory Vaccination League formed in response to

(22:34):
these mandatory laws, and a lot of journals popped up
that were touting the advantages of avoiding vaccines and the
disadvantages of having them. In these marches were huge. There
was one in March of eighteen eighty five in uh
Lyster which was the most notorious of its time. Eighty

(22:55):
thousand to a hundred thousand protesters. They were they had
an effigy of Edward Jenner, they had a bunch of
like fake baby coffins as these carrot top style props.
And again, this is like a hundred thousand people in
eighteen eighty five when there were way fewer people in general.
So that's that's fascinating. This was a huge issue. But

(23:18):
this so far has all been Europe. We're talking Europe. Now.
Let's talk about the Anti Vaccination Society of America, which
was founded in eighteen seventy nine. And it was founded
because there was a guy who was a sort of
a polemical controversial medical figure, a guy named William teb
He was from Britain, and he visited the States, and

(23:39):
then after he visited people really took up the torch.
And then this was far from the only anti vaccination league.
It is, and we're also gonna see, weirdly enough, that
echoed in the modern era where a British UH scientist
who's working in this area goes to the United States
and starts a move foreshadow and yes, indeed, um, yeah,

(24:03):
you've got two other leagues, the New England Anti Compulsory
Vaccination League, These UH names are pretty great. You've also
got the Anti Vaccination League of New York City. So
that's eighty two and then eight which also the New
York one has some modern successors today it does. So
the American anti vaccinationists, they were, um, you know, they're

(24:25):
engaging in court battles. They were trying to repeal a
lot of these laws that were the compulsory ones that
they named their uh, their institutions after. And uh in
several states they're working, including California, Illinois, and Wisconsin. And
uh you would see it just continue to grow there,
the the anti vaccination movement. Yes, uh. And then in

(24:45):
the ninet and seventies and eighties, there was a period
of increasing litigation regarding vaccines, and this also led to
decreased profitability, or it occurred concurrently in step with decreased
profitability for vaccine manufacturers, and this led to a decline
in the number of companies producing vaccines. Yes, big farming

(25:07):
is already very deeply employee here or whatever you want
to call it, right, profit motivated medicine one of the uh.
Some will call it necessary evil, some will call it
one of the greatest missteps of our species. That's uh,
it's definitely gonna be on us at some point the
bill comes due. Uh. So This leads to what could

(25:28):
have been a very dangerous time for people who are
pro vaccination or you know, as they would phrase it,
anti disease. However, the decline gets mitigated because something happens
in the US in nineteen eight six. It's called the
National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. And that's this was made

(25:49):
because it is true that in some cases this is
according to Health Resources and Service administration of the US,
in some cases vaccines can cause very serious problems. The
one most often cited on their side is the severe
allergic reaction that can affect some people depending on the
vaccine and their personal reaction to it. In these cases,

(26:14):
this compensation program may provide financial compensation to people who
filed petition or found to be injured by a vaccine
that is covered by this stuff. And this doesn't cover
all vaccines, but it did stop that decline. People felt
a little less unsafe. The legacy of this era lives

(26:34):
on in the present day in supply crisis and continued
media efforts by a incredibly dedicated anti vaccination lobby. Anti
vaccination groups continue today. Two thou eighteen survey by Zogbye
Analytics found that nearly twenty of Americans, about one in
five people believe vaccines are inherently unsafe. So what gives

(26:59):
why some people convinced there's something more to vaccines than
saving lives and preventing disease will tackle the answer after
a word from our sponsors. Here's where it gets crazy.
So there's a route to this issue, and it's it's threefold, right. Yeah, First,

(27:23):
you're going to get into some kind of religious objection
to doing this, whether it's something that's actually written in
a scripture, in a text somewhere that just talks about
putting um other people's blood into your body, or just
you know, some small thing like that. And also just
you know, into specific religious reasons for not wanting to

(27:43):
do this, or or even even the idea that this
is an attempt to shirk a duty or trial sent
by a religious authority. It is not our place to
go against the judgment of God. God has a plan
and if I am to be sick, I will be
sick and uh, and He will make me better as well.

(28:06):
Then you've got concerns about personal liberty, which is you know,
I think that's right on the face of it, as
we talked about with anything being mandatory, like if if
I do not have a choice to do this, then uh,
I'm not going to agree with it, um or at
least I'm going to object to it. And then the
third is skepticism or just all out rejection of the

(28:27):
benefits that we all humans get from vaccination. And it's
also accompanied by the belief of vaccines, you know, have
harmed people over the course of the history of using
them um and specifically though the belief that vaccines in
general hurt people more than they help them, and more so,
I mean, that's the one that really leans more into
the conspiracy realm, where there's this perceived agenda that vaccines

(28:51):
are used as some sort of controlling factor or some
sort of this whole mandatory idea is the government, you know,
it's it's just the thing they don't want us to know,
you know what, what the vaccines are actually doing. It's
the one that's stuck around for the longest at least,
yet it has the most stame power by far. Now,
those those first uh, those first two objections still exists,

(29:12):
and you can see modern cases of religious objections, and
you can see modern cases of you know, forget the science.
This is a matter of personal philosophy and uh, your
your control ends where my personal space begins. The argument
of liberty and these uh, these objections, the ones from

(29:35):
the stame power, the skepticism about the science. They go
through a gamut of responses. Some will purport to be
based on science, and we'll look at that more in
a second. To some that would be you know, be
called more conspiratorial. And in the mainstream media. In the

(29:55):
nineties seventies, the DIP theory of tetanus and produces our
dt pvaccine was blamed for neurological conditions in some British children,
even though numerous other studies and subsequent studies indicated there
was no close association with their quote brain disease, that's
what they call it. They said it just biologically wasn't

(30:16):
possible for the method or the mechanism that the vaccine
used to cause uh malfunctions in neurological systems. And even
though historically that was what was found when that nineteen
seventies DTP vaccine saga that was occurring, you will still
have groups who believe that you know, this, this concept

(30:37):
that there was no association coming from studies performed by doctors,
and this is one of the you know, as we
get into the more conspiratorial things, people will outright reject
that conclusion and continue to believe that, no, that is
an example of vaccines being harmful, or question the source.
So now you know, history doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme,

(30:59):
as it's so often said. Let's look at the concept
of mercury health effects allegations of neurological damage. In nineteen
a British gastro enterologist named Andrew Wakefield published a report
that uh linked the combination Measles moms and Rubella or

(31:22):
MMR vaccine to autism and bowel disease in infants. This
vaccine had been more or less routinely distributed since the
early nineteen seventies. First things first, if this is true,
if the science bears out, then this is a tremendous
problem because tons of people have had this vaccine. This

(31:44):
needs to be solved yesterday, you know, before this thing publishes.
But the problem here is that subsequent researchers, nearly all
of them, were unable to reproduce Wakefield's results, and that's
very important in studies. In two thousand four, an investigation
by The Sunday Times revealed that he had in fact

(32:04):
fabricated his research. So the Lancet where this was published
with Drew's report, and Wakefield was barred from practicing medicine
in the United Kingdom. That's when he moved to the
US and he doubled down on his claims. He said that,
you know, he alleged there was a conspiracy by the
academy or the powers that be to shut him down.

(32:27):
And this is where the echo of William teb comes
in exactly. And he directed a film called Vaxed from
Cover Up to Catastrophe in twenty six which several of
us have probably seen. I watched as well. This was
not a fringe figure at this time, not near as
much as some some of us might think just hearing
that information. In fact, he attended the inauguration ball of

(32:51):
the current president in ten so it's not like he
is um it's not like he's being entirely dismissed in
the US. Right, and then going back to the claims
of the claims that there is a poisonous ingredient in vaccines, right,
that the rubber bullet is still a bullet. Uh let's

(33:13):
talk about something called theomercial or thimerosal as it's spelled
differently in the UK and US. It's an antifungal preservative
and it's been used in small amounts in different multi
dose vaccines. Multi dose vaccines. It doesn't mean that you
get dosed for multiple diseases. It means that the vaccine

(33:34):
comes in a container or a vial and you use
it for multiple patients. Right, like two leader of soda here,
you would you would expect your friends have cups, were
not just each guzzling one unless it's a game night, right. Uh.
So this stuff, this anti fungal substance was included in
these vials and these multi dose vaccines to prevent them

(33:57):
from becoming contaminated as they were you across multiple patients.
So it works as a preservative. It's controversial because this
substance contains mercury, which studies do conclusively show is super
bad for you. Don't play like you Have you ever
played with a thermometer? Do you guys ever break mercury

(34:17):
into it? Yeah, it's so cool. It's not. It's not
a good idea. Don't do it it amidst poisonous fumes.
Don't let it touch your skin, but man, and really
don't drink it. Ever, Let's say you're working with a
Flint River, don't don't drink it or you know, even
if you watch T one thousand in the Terminator films,

(34:38):
don't try to build one out of mercury, which is
what I did. That was week with metal liquid mental.
Without getting off to far off track, here, did you
see with the the Flint River water crisis. Yeah, there's
an update with all that. Yeah, the claims got rejected. Yeah,
they're they're shutting down essentially the prosecution or that they're

(34:59):
not going to prosecute anyone, but they're gonna reach like reinvestigate.
Basically the water still burns. Yeah, that's the problem. Yeah,
those people are probably not going to see a day
in jail. The folks who were who were largely responsible,
And to be fair, there's a little we did an
episode on this, we did. It's just it's an important update, Yeah,

(35:22):
because once something leaves the news, it's it's very easy
for the legal shan against to begin when the world
doesn't have its eye on things right. So, yes, mercury
is terrible. Apologies to Flint, Michigan. We've had, And thank
you so much to some of our fellow listeners who
wrote in from Flint and the surrounding area to let

(35:43):
us know that this story continues even if CNN is
not paying attention to it. And in that case it
was led by the way, I don't know why my
tangent went from mercury to lead contamination. Contamination. Uh. And also, yeah,
when I say the water are still burns, it's a
bit hyperbole. The places where water tends to burn our

(36:04):
places that have been contaminated by tracking, Yeah, which is
a real thing. Still back to vaccines in the c
d C Center for Disease Control itself the subject of
no small amount of conspiracy theories, and the American Academy
of Pediatrics or the a a P asked vaccine makers

(36:26):
to remove this theomercial from vaccines as quickly as possible.
They said, just to be safe, Just to be safe.
Mercury is bad for you. We all know that. Let's
let's get it out of here. He's out of here
three strikes, or before three strikes occur. Let's not hit
anyone with this. So now this substance is absent from

(36:47):
the vast majority of vaccines in Europe and the US,
except for some preparations of the flu vaccine, So make
your choice. No, no, no kidding, d kiddy. Uh, there
are trace amounts that are in some vaccines due to
production processes. What that means is that the people actually

(37:10):
manufacture the vaccines, who are not necessarily the people who
invented or discovered them, say hey, we've got the system
in place. It already works. It's tremendously expensive and may
be dangerous for us to change it, so we have
to keep this in and for anyone wondering, Uh, this
mercury mercury bearing substance occurs at around a maximum of

(37:34):
one microgram in some vaccines. That's about cent of the
average daily mercury and take in the US, which is
a thing in case you didn't know that, there's daily
mercury intake for all seafood fans out there, there's allowable
limits of all kinds of toxins. Yeah, rat vcs and cereal.

(37:54):
I mean that's how it works. Uh, that's of the
daily and take for US adults. Uh, two point five
percent of the daily level considered tolerable by the World
Health Organization who, yes, Yes, the World Health organization to

(38:14):
the presence of this mercury varying substance and vaccines is
one of the primary reasons that some people in organizations
link vaccines and vaccinations to incidencies of autism. What exactly
is autism other than something deserving an episode entirely of

(38:34):
its own? Will answer this after a word from our sponsors,
We've returned. Autism as it's commonly called, or autism spectrum
disorder a s D, as its named officially, refers to
a broad range of conditions. They're characterized by challenges with

(38:58):
social skills, repetitive behaviors, speech, and nonverbal communication. According again
to the CDC Centers for Disease Control, autism effects an
estimated one in fifty nine children in the United States today.
We know there's not saying saying something First off, autism
isn't cancer, But saying something is autism is a lot

(39:22):
like saying something is cancer. It's sort of an umbrella
terms for many different types of things sum so important, uh,
and they're most often influenced by a combination of genetic
and environmental factors. Science, even now in twenty nineteen, is
still attempting to understand how those factors combine to create

(39:46):
UH conditions or events on this spectrum, and how best
to uh to help people who live with a condition
from the A s D. Whether that's you know, as
Berger's or whether it is some sort of UM, I
believe the correct the correct terminology is profound autism. Is
that correct, Matt? And there's all there's all kinds of

(40:09):
things functioning, non functioning, verbal, nonverbal, all that that we
kind of discussed already. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. So multiple
studies from various groups like the National Academy of Sciences
in the UK and so on, have not verified a
link between vaccination and this condition. And Wakefield's research, although
it's been soundly dismissed by mainstream medicine, is still is

(40:32):
still cited by a lot of anti vaccination groups. And
sometimes depending on the group, and depending on the tone
of the group or the agenda of the group, you
will you will also run into some conspiratorial stuff. Some
groups will just cite it without citing other studies that
outnumber it and contradict it, or some other groups maybe

(40:53):
a little further out there, will say that uh, well
will intimate or UH kind of kind of allude to
some great cover up of Wakefield's research. This leads us
to another medical concern, the concept of vaccine overload, which
is something that might not be familiar to people, but

(41:15):
it's an interesting idea. So vaccine overload, which is a
non medical term, refers to this idea that giving lots
of vaccines in one go um could overwhelm or weaken
a child's very you know, developing immune system and lead
to adverse effects. So for example, when my kid got

(41:35):
vaccine and we broke it up into a couple of
different little sessions, and that's pretty common. UM. So vaccine
overloads also a term that's used uh as it's often
cited as a cause for autism. Again, there's not much
science to back this up. In fact, that any of
the science that exist doesn't really bear this out. Despite
the increase in the number of vaccines over recent decades,

(41:56):
improvements in the designs of these vaccines in the they're
administered um have created serious reduction to the immuno logic
load from those backs vaccines and the total number of
these components. The immunological components in the fourteen vaccines administered
to children in the United States in two thousand nine
is less than ten percent of what it was in

(42:19):
the seven vaccines given in nineteen. So we see we
see this um tremendous reduction in the amount of work
immune systems are asked to do. Right. That's that's essentially
what we mean when we say immunologic load. I think
immuno Logic is really cool words. By the way, it

(42:40):
sounds like some West Coast hip hop guy's name. Uh.
I agree. If it's not, then here you go. I
think the only person who will have a problem with
you taking that name will be Logic, who seems like
he doesn't have a problem with other people having names
related to that. But you can't really get mad at
someone who has who shares a component of your name.

(43:02):
In hip hop? How many bigs are there? How many
littles are there? How many youngs? So many youngs and
littles bigs. Somebody named Little Skies who's putting stuff everywhere
still in Atlanta, Little Skies, little guys like a graffiti
artists or no, just somebody's paying a lot of money. Yeah,
well you gotta you know, you've got to be the change.

(43:24):
I guess so Little Skuys, if you're listening, Uh, send
us some music. Yeah, please be the little that you
want to see in the world. That's what I say. So.
A study published in found no correlation between autism and
the antigen number in the vaccines these children were administered
up to age two. Again, the antigen is sort of

(43:44):
the the broken part of the of the infection that
you're attempting to teach a body to fight. Right. Of
the one thousand and eight children in this study back
a one quarter of those diagnosed with some as D
condition were born between and that's when the routine vaccine

(44:06):
schedule for children could contain more than three thousand antigens.
That's a single shot of a DTP vaccine. The vaccine
schedule inve has more vaccines, but the number of antigens
the children are exposed to by the age of two
is way way down. It's down to three fifteen. So
if this correlation is correct, then it would naturally follow.

(44:31):
This is just take like, let's just assume for the
sake of argument that the the opposition to vaccines because
of that link to autism or perceived link. Let's assume
that bore out somehow. If that was true, then uh,
it would follow that reducing this antigen load, right, would

(44:54):
therefore result in a decline in people presenting with a
s D conditions That does not seem to be the case,
or at least there's no there's no literature on the
anti vaccination side citing that. There's another argument too that
we could have, which is that that's a schedule from

(45:16):
it's twenty nineteen now, so there's not enough time. Arguably, right,
we would want to wait till maybe two or twenty
twenty five or something like that. To be absolutely fair,
there are no publicly available studies based on withholding vaccines

(45:37):
from children. That is because there are tons of laws
against unethical experimentation. Again, my my opinion pops up a
little bit here. I'm a huge fan of self experimentation,
but even I understand that you you shouldn't. You shouldn't

(45:58):
conduct experiments on people who are not capable of informed consent,
and children are not so at this point, it's also
fair to point out that no study directly comparing rates
of a s D or spectrum in vaccinated and unvaccinated

(46:18):
children has been done to our knowledge. If you find one,
please send it out. And then there's some other conditions
associated with vaccination. Yeah, yeah, aluminium has been a cause
of concern. This will cause aluminium and things related to
aluminium are even a cause concern for some people with deodorant.
Have you heard about this when you're using the the

(46:40):
strong anti perse brands when it's like leaching into your
body exupposedly. But the other kind of doesn't work, man,
the hippie crystal deodorant, it doesn't do the job. Yeah,
or need I need heavy metals in my deodor right? Yes,
I'm a fan of bathing. I don't know. I'm just
full of hot takes today, but I think people should shower. Yeah,
I agree, but you know it's it's hot in Georgia, dude,

(47:00):
and we it's hot in this hot box that we're
sitting in right now. I need my I need my
deodorant to be effective and benefit. And the idea is
that aluminum might also uh leach into people's bodies and
unsafe levels will affect some aspect of their development. Typically,
the primary concerns for people opposed to vaccination are going

(47:24):
to be focused on neurological aspects. What is the aluminum
meant to be in aluminum or aluminium for all the
fans of Bush right and the band and uh and
everyone living in the UK, or people who just prefer
that sort of spelling pronunciation. Aluminum adge evans are used

(47:48):
in vaccines for HEP A, HEP B, the diphtheria, tetanus vaccines,
and a couple of other things. They're not used in
what they call the live viral vaccines like measles, MOMPS
rebella and rhodavirus and so on. And adjivant is a
part of a vaccine, a component that boost the immune

(48:09):
response for the vaccine. Essentially, they allow you to get
more bang for your buck. Lesser quantities of the vaccine
and fewer doses can still have the same effect of
older vaccines. And like you said, Ben, there have been
other concerns raised about the HEP B vaccine um in
relation to a potential link between that and multiple sclerosis. Yeah,

(48:32):
hepatitis B vaccination and the risk of childhood onset multiple sclerosis, right,
that's the Pediatric Adolescents Medical Journal, And there were other
things to examining this. The New England Journal of Medicine
did a study on this hepatitis B vaccination the risk
of multiple sclerosis, and you can find plenty of literature
on this at the c d C, which has a

(48:54):
pretty good website. The problem is, for some people, the
CDC is considered a non harder you know what I mean,
it's compromised, right. Are you gonna believe big big disease?
You know, aren't they linked to big pharma? So it's true.
We've we've mentioned just a few, we've mentioned multiple grosses,
we've mentioned vaccine overload. We've got a couple of other

(49:18):
things we should mention. First, why anti vaccination remains a
hot topic today? Again not sold in that store. It's
kind of lazy. It was like, I don't know why
I used the hot topic. But first, there's a common
concern cited that vaccinations cause seizures. It's very important to

(49:39):
very important to mention this is technically true. All immune
responses which vaccines are purposely created to trigger, have a
chance of causing what are known as febrile seizures also
called fever pits or seizures associated with high body temperatures. Overall,

(49:59):
you're going to find and the risk of these seizures
during vaccination is pretty low, but still very distressing. If
you're a parent and your child is having seizures. It
doesn't matter to you that only three percent of children
get them. It matters to you that one kid in
particular has that, right now, you know what I mean.
And the complication rates of the seizures from the vaccines

(50:21):
are still much lower than the exact same season when
caused by the actual diseases that they're meant to prevent,
right right, disease cause seizures have twenty times the rate
of I see you admission. And this this still goes
into other We're talking about medical concerns, but it still
goes into other widespread social concerns, uh, some of which

(50:44):
I've dealt with on the ground, like in the field.
So in some countries, nonprofit and medical personnel, especially if
they're in a non Western country and they're from the West,
have been attacked even killed for attempting to administer vaccines
to local populations. In Pakistan, for instance, some religious and
militant groups alleged the vaccination was a cover story and

(51:05):
that the substances being administered were meant to either sterilize
or kill the local population simply for being Muslim. And
you know, we we've seen that echoed as well. Even
in places like New York City. In Brooklyn and a
couple other um and groups within that community believe that
there is some type of conspiracy against them, where the

(51:28):
vaccines are being administered specifically to them to uh to
cause harm to their community. Call them the population there
are there at least a couple of There are a
few outspoken rabbis. There have been holding rallies in ten
where they're like speaking outwardly about that stuff. A buddy
of mine lives in a neighborhood in Brooklyn that the
population is very largely made of Hasidic devout Jews, and

(51:51):
it's a really interesting community for sure, because they kind
of all hang out together. They go out with their
whole families kind of like you know, in a group,
and they don't really make eye contact or communicate with,
you know, others that are not in that community. So
it's very much like them looking out for themselves and
each other. It's a very interesting world. Just to call out.
A New York Times article if you want to learn

(52:12):
more about that, it's called despite measles warnings, anti vaccine
rally draws hundreds of ultra orthodox Jews. There you go, yes,
do learn about it. Now, when we're calling out communities
as examples for feeling this way, we're not. We're not
trying to pick on anybody. The truth is that this
is an understandable thing that occurs, especially in insular communities.

(52:32):
While this might sound the the idea of someone hunting
down your specific friends, families, and community members to kill
you via fake vaccines, While it might sound pretty out
there to some of us listening today, we have to
understand that Western in geos in particular, have an established
history of functioning as covers for all sorts of nefarious activities.

(52:55):
There is no proven case of modern vaccination attempts being
a cover for the spread of disease. In this manner,
it's a leap, It's not as far as a leap
as it might seem. Though it's still a leap, but
I'm just saying it's not as much of a jump.
The chasm is not as wide. When when I was
living in Central America, this was a very common belief

(53:17):
and it was very very much a controversial thing because
people thought that folks were being sent by the US
big business and government, maybe in cooperation with drug cartels,
to uh sterilize their children, or to render them somehow
mentally inert, you know. And this goes hand in hand
with the concerns of like the illegal organ trade, right,

(53:41):
or that the idea of that children will be by
vaccinate it would be somehow marked or chipped, and that
they could be traced and their organs later cold. There's
a real thing that people believe. There are other conspiracies.
There's the big business angle, which is always gonna, always
gonna rear. It's like you had here, depending on who

(54:01):
you ask time. As we said earlier time, medicine and
the health of living innocent human beings to profit or
a financial bottom line is either at best and necessary
evil or it is one of the great crimes of
modern medicine. Right. It's true that many people have died,
are probably dying as you listen to this show, and

(54:22):
will die after you're done listening in this show because
it was no longer profitable for certain pharmaceutical companies to
produce a given medicine, or because they increase the price
of a medicine to the point that other people could
not afford it. India is one of the countries that's
been in increasingly tense conversations and arguments with Western medicine

(54:44):
manufacturers because India as a government made a choice where
they said, look, we're not going to uh, we're not
going to let people die because you think of medicine
should be four d fifty dollars, we can manufacture it
here and we'll give it to him for three or
something like that. You know, I'm I'm pulling the numbers
out of my head, but these are these are real

(55:04):
arguments that are happening, and you can see why some
people might be opposed to that because of the enormous
cost of R and D. But then also on the
other side, there are people dying. This is all to say,
it is very, very easy to see why a lot
of people would not trust these profit driven companies to
have the best interest of patients at heart. It's I'm
not I'm not vilifying them. I'm saying, if you exercise

(55:27):
even cursory attempts at empathy, you can clearly see how
this seems like a rational and logical decision on their part. Uh,
they're saying, well, these companies that experimented on marginalized populations
in the past, what's to stop them from doing so again?
And if we don't have enough money, these people don't
care about us. And this is not look we're talking

(55:51):
about right now. We're talking about largely developing countries when
we talk about those concerns. But the concern of vaccinations
population control is alive and well here in the United States, Matt,
you had the excellent example of the ultra orthodox community again,
factions within the ultra orthodox community New York. What about
Congressman Louie Gomert who voiced his concerns about vaccination on

(56:14):
a broadcast for the Family Research Council. Pretty wholesome name right. Uh.
He is convinced that liberal elites are using vaccination programs
to call the Earth's population due to concerns about the
scarcity of natural resources. Very Malthusian population collapse reasoning. He
thinks there is an evil cabal behind this plan and

(56:36):
that they're aiming for a target worldwide global human population
of seven million, very Georgia Guidestone style. But there's a
huge problem with this. The overwhelming massive evidence, well not
perfect right science never is, proves the vaccines overall tend
to save lives. So this means the vaccines, even if

(56:59):
there were more dangerous than they are today. Are increasing
the world's population rather than diminishing it. It's making it
much much more likely that we reach nine billion then
go down to seven hundred million. It's a matter of fact,
if you wanted people to get closer to seven hundred million,
you would probably just stop vaccinating anyone and then a
ton of people eventually down the road would die. But

(57:21):
the problem with that is that people are very good
at breeding, and it's one of our favorite things to do.
So getting us down to seven hundred million means you
would also need to sterilize a ton of people or
convince them that there are things that are better than sex.
What if you can convince them that taking a vaccine

(57:42):
is the worst thing you can do because it will
kill you for some reason, or it will do something
bad for you. But you're a state actor and you
want the population to decrease. Well, that is a very
good segue, Matt, because I like that you're talking about
geopol It takes. There is one thing we found that

(58:02):
is um is a genuine improvable conspiracy in the argument
about vaccination. Yeah, and it has to do again and
every time we we talk about a state actor or
something like this. We mentioned this on the show all
the time. But it's a faction of someone acting within
a a state government in this case Russia, or at

(58:25):
least someone working even within a private institution somewhere in Russia.
But that's what we're gonna talk about. They are they've
been spreading basically propaganda that is anti vaccination in nature. Right. Yeah,
So a study by the Journal of Public Health showed
that Russian trolls, those are the biological actual people spreading

(58:47):
to sinfo, and then Russian bought campaigns those are the
algorithms and and fake accounts run by actual people have
been working purposely to spread discord in the West round
vaccination attempts or campaigns. According to David Bruniatowski from George
Washington University, quote, a significant portion of the online discourse

(59:10):
about vaccines may be generated by malicious actors with a
range of hidden agendas. They reviewed more than two hundred
and fifty tweets about vaccination from accounts linked to outfit
called the Internet Research Agency i RA. Again, as long
as you want look at the acronym, that's that's pretty
wholesome situation there. It's based in St. Petersburg, In February,

(59:32):
the agency was named in a US indictment over alleged
election meddling. They used tweets with polarizing language that linked
vaccination to statements about race, class, and the legitimacy of
Western governments. According to the research, we have a couple
of example tweets here. Does anybody want to do a voice?
I could do a voice. Did you know that it

(59:54):
was secret government database of Hastag vaccine Damag's child, Hastag
vaccinate US. Another that argued for vaccination said lex in
the US, you'll kind of fixed lathim dying from measle
I am for vaccination. Pretty good, guys, No apologies to
our apologies to our Russian friends. There's no one I

(01:00:16):
do well. I've got friends who are Russian. First in
to this show, So shout out to Shout out to Oleg.
He used to live in San Francisco. He lives in London.
Now you've told me about him. Uh, he's gonna kill
me for that accent. But you know, accents aside, we're

(01:00:37):
we're we're having a little fun with it. But accents aside.
Those are real tweets and they are certainly not not
meant to be associated with Russia in the environment in
which they're published. They're meant to seem like someone you
kind of know or a source you kind of respect
that is telling you, you know, the brass tacks, real

(01:01:00):
truth about what's going on. This is totally textbook foundation
of geopolitics by Alexander Ducan. There you go, Alexander Ducan.
It always it. I always feel like it's going to
be a Star Wars character or something. It does. And
he kind of is, you know, uh, he he got
away from his more occult roots and is now just

(01:01:22):
arguing state policy in Russia. But this this leads us
to our conclusion. Currently, several diseases appear to be on
the rise in certain communities in certain global regions due
to concerns about the perceived hidden dangers of vaccination. The
BBC sums it up in pretty well in uh in

(01:01:43):
a fairly troubling way. In Europe, more than forty one
people are infected with measles in the first six months.
That's nearly double the number of cases for the entirety
of last year. At that point that report was made,
in thirty seven people had already died measles was on
the rise in Serbia, Ukraine, Georgia, and Greece. In the US,

(01:02:04):
the number of children being exempted from vaccines also on
the rise. In Italy, the upper house of Parliament voted
through legislation to abolish the law that makes vaccines mandatory
for children before they start school. Despite this the area,
despite the media coverage, the only serious medical condition ever
linked to a vaccine was specific to the virus strain

(01:02:26):
used in the manufacture of that vaccine. And whenever we
talk about this sort of stuff, we have to treat
everyone's concerned seriously. We are talking about human lives here, right,
and both sides of the argument feel like they are
either saving lives or saving the quality of life for people.
So these are these are noble motives, right, But we

(01:02:46):
also have to ask ourselves about the motivations behind any
possible conspiracy that would exist other than the Russian disinfo stuff,
which is absolutely true. Again, not a theory that's happening.
Be careful who you retweet first. Why would someone want
to spread a disease or a medical condition through the
false pretense of preventing another disease? Are there any proven

(01:03:07):
cases of this tactic being deployed on a widespread scale,
not that we can find. That doesn't mean they don't exist.
That just means that they're hard to find and they're
hard to prove. We do know that diseases, for instance,
have been utilized as weapons of war ever since the
days of old, when the bodies of plague victims were
catapulted over walls during sieges. This species is not above

(01:03:32):
using disease to kill each other on purpose, right, But
we just haven't seen a case of people doing that
on purpose with vaccines. Because again, the thing with vaccines is,
although they are not perfect, they do tend to save
more lives than they and then they take and there
you know that whole point. If they're not using that life, well,

(01:03:54):
it's it's different the method of the methodology of creating
the disease and using the disease to get someone else
sixth very very very different. You have to keep that
in mind when you're thinking about this. And the third
question we have to ask your have have vaccinations ever
actually been used for some kind of nefarious purpose, uh,
whether some kind of experimental vaccination or you know, some

(01:04:18):
other thing that we haven't even thought about yet. And
that's an episode for another day. When we we talked
about this already, we're talking about militaries using vaccines for
certain things that we've actually gotten some Uh, we've gotten
some emails some responses before from from UM from soldiers
who have had to get vaccines and they were confused
about how many there were just so many vaccines, the

(01:04:39):
schedules strange, uh, talking about vaccines in prisons, on marginalized populations,
and some of the stuff been you were mentioning already
about your you know, your travels and how people feel
about vaccines. There's a there's a lot more here to
go into, yes and today for those of us listening.
In the US, all fifties states have some sort of

(01:05:01):
law requiring at the very least certain vaccines for students.
There are exemptions based on medical reasons, religious exemptions. Seventeen
states do allow parents to opt out based on personal
or philosophical beliefs. And though we we mentioned UM New
York already, but just yesterday as we're recording this, on

(01:05:23):
June thirteenth, New York lawmakers they voted to end religious
exemptions for immunizations, which has you know fully fully angered
some of the some of the people in those communities
that we were mentioning earlier, and um, they joined up
with several other states right now California, Arizona, West Virginia, Mississippi,
and Maine that do not allow exemptions on religious beliefs,

(01:05:47):
which for some people still is you know, it's that
other it's that don't tread on the idea, don't tell
me what to do with my family. Uh So we
reach our conclusion here so far as we can tell,
and so far as the bulk of research shows us,
the majority of studies arguing for the efficacy of vaccination

(01:06:08):
as well as the advantages of immunizing people to once
fatal diseases, seem to be largely solid and their findings
seem to be increasingly in agreement confirmed on multiple angles.
The studies are reproducible and so on. And in contrast,
the studies against vaccination overall have been largely debunked and

(01:06:31):
the findings also don't seem to be reproducible, meaning that
unrelated objective researchers with no horse in the race other
than the survival of themselves and their progeny cannot reach
the same conclusions without either purposefully or accidentally really screwing
something up along the way. Some studies of specific vaccines

(01:06:54):
in the past did raise valid concerns about their danger,
right and their safety, and it appears that the medical
community responded by improving these vaccines, either through new manufacturing
techniques like you mentioned NOL, or by removing potentially harmful substances.
At this point, we want to hear from you. Thank
you so much for listening to this show. What do

(01:07:16):
you think about vaccination, as we like to say here
in the South, are you for it or again it?
And why I just said and I'd like to point
out here with this and as you're thinking about your response,
we are highly aware, as you probably are, that the
current state of vaccinations it's not perfect. It is not
a perfect system, uh, no matter what you believe. But

(01:07:37):
that doesn't necessarily mean that it is dangerous to you.
So just you, you know, just think about that, really
think about that. And also, you know, this this episode
really focused on the West. Outside of some of the
ancient history and some cultural implications, we did not explore
how these operations might be conducted in other countries, right,

(01:08:01):
So so it's possible there's something we need to hear
from your neck of the global woods. Please don't hesitate
to tell us. Reach out and let us know, especially
if you think it's something that would be important for
your fellow listeners to learn. There you go. You can
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Reach out to us. You can call us and leave
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it an octopus's garden in the shade they have? Yes,
someone who made that joke? Um, it was me, No, no, no,
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The Bethleay gardens are amazing shady, But I can you
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(01:09:05):
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