The Wright Brothers

Orville and Wilbur Wright were not trained professionals, but they were rigorous experimenters who ended up changing the world.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of I
Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh,
and there's Chuck and Jerry's not here again. She's kind
of checked out. Frankly, and this is stuff you should know, uh,
the Wright Brothers edition, which Frankly, Um, I've been using

(00:25):
frankly a lot in the last few seconds. Frankly is um,
I think grew out of our wind Tunnel episode? Am
I correct in presuming that? Mm hmmm, I don't know,
I don't remember. I know, I think this is just
on a list, Okay, whatever, Sorry. I will say though

(00:48):
that this um, and I know I say this for
a lot of episodes, like why haven't they made a movie?
But it is astounding to me that there has not
been a big, sweeping, three hour biopic about the Right brothers.
It's it's really weird. Are we still saying biopic? That's
what I say. That's fine, Yeah, it just makes sense

(01:11):
to me. But um so, I agree wholeheartedly. And one
of the things that that struck me is when I
was reading some research on this is that at one
point these guys, like in a test flight, got up
like six feet in the air, and I was thinking,
I want to see what that looked like, because these
are the first people, some of the first people flying,

(01:32):
and there are suddenly six feet up in the air.
And and this was in a glider. This is before
it was powered flight. So they were really at the
at the mercy of the wind right then and all that.
It was one of the most terrifying things they've ever
that's ever happened to them. And I thought that would
be really something to see. And that's just one of
many amazing things that the Right brothers did. They were

(01:54):
they were amazing human beings. Yeah, I mean the story
has thrills, it has is uh you know, it has
thrills and chills. It's obviously something that changed the course
of humanity. There are these like very movie like aha
moments that happened along the way. It's two guys that
were not trained engineers. They were self taught, brilliant men

(02:19):
who figured this out, but they didn't go to school
to learn it. So it's just I don't know, it's
got all the right elements. I think I did find
a a twenty nine minute short film from that's featured
Tony Hale. Oh yeah, The Great you know Buster bluth Um.

(02:39):
He's also the dude who he was also the dude
who rocks out to Mr Robato and that classic Volkswagen
ad from years back. Oh that's right, I forgot about that.
But he plays one of them. I can't remember which one.
And I saw a little clip from it. It looked
like it was okay, like I had a decent production value.
But it sounds like a drunk history episode. I know,
it totally does. But it was he playing it straight

(03:01):
or was it supposed to be tongue in cheek. No,
he seemed really drunk, which was weird. Okay, No, no, no,
it was No, it was totally straight. I mean it's
hard to imagine him. Like the scene that it showed
was a very serious scene of him acting, and it
was very hard to not laugh a little bit because
I think Tony Hales a brilliant comedic actor. So it
was kind of tough. I was like, oh man, it

(03:22):
seems funny to me. Still, yeah, I'll have to check
it out. But yeah, there needs to be a big,
big movie. I want to see this on the big screen. Yeah,
because so again, I mean, you kind of hit on
some stuff, but it's It's really important to point out
that the guys who were the first human beings to
create um to to have to undertake a powered flight,

(03:43):
were the same ones who invented that flying machine that
allowed for powered flight. And they were a couple of
self taught amateur bike shop owners who decided that they
wanted to be a part of figuring out how to
get humans to fly, which was super duper in the
zeitgeist at the time. It was like the thing, especially um,

(04:06):
if you were an engineer, that you were probably thinking about, Um,
there's a lot of uh technological um razmatazz going on
with things like you know, the the telegraph, which has
been around for a while, I guess, but locomotion was
a big one. Trains figuring out how to move humans

(04:27):
beyond just foot power, bicycle power, um or how horsepower? Yeah, um,
that was that was a big deal. And and to
to get people into the air flying there were a
lot of people working on that, so and on one hand,
it was also kind of audacious that the Right Brothers
would be like, you know, we'll we'll toss our hat
into the ring and see if we can be the

(04:48):
ones to figure this out, just because they were self
taught and they were outsiders as far as the scientific
community was concerned. Yeah, And Dave Dave Rus helped us
put this together. And Dave is keen to point out
that like they were outsiders, they weren't trained engineers, but
they were far more than guys that just tinkered in
a bike shop. They did do that, but they they

(05:12):
very much, um, they didn't stumble upon this thing. They
very much were very data driven, very rigorous in their experimentation,
and it's no surprise that they were the first. Um.
They may be unlikely, but not surprising, if that makes sense.
So even at the time, the idea was that it
would probably probably be the French who were the ones

(05:34):
that figured out human flight, and even the Right brothers
apparently thought this, but it was still open enough that
they decided that that they they could give it a shot.
And they also saw a lot of parallels. You know,
they're very famous, as we said, for owning a bike shop.
That was what their their trade was in Dayton, Ohio. UM.
But they saw a lot of parallels between bicycling and flight, Like,

(05:57):
for example, UM, bicycling requires a lot of balance and
you have to figure the same thing out when you're flying, UM,
you have to build a machine in the most lightweight,
lightweight way possible, UM that can also convey a human being. UM.
Aerodynamics factor into it. So they had a bit of
a head start. They weren't coming. It's not like there's

(06:18):
nothing in the bicycling world that has anything to do
with this, Especially if you're an engineer and thinking about
things like aerodynamics as far as bicycling bicycling is concerned,
you can translate that to to flight. And that's what
the Right Brothers did. Yeah, I mean, a plane is
just a bike with wings, right basically, or at least
the early ones kind of work. And my dad's always

(06:40):
said that, Jr. If anyone ever asked you what the
difference between a bike and a plane is, you tell
him nothing. They need pop some gin and that's right,
all right. So the Right Brothers, of course, Wilbur and Orville.
They were born UM to parents Milton and Susan. They

(07:01):
were the third and fourth sons. There were seven kids
total to UM. A pair of twins, A pair of twins,
just two people. I kept wanting to make it for people.
A pair of twins, one set of single set of
twins uh died in infancy, so there were um five

(07:23):
kids that grew into adulthood. And uh, we're going to
pepper in some facts about their sister Catherine here and
there throughout the episode, because Catherine, I feel like, does
not get uh much credit, and she while she was
not inventing the aircraft, she was very very key to
their operation and uh management of these guys throughout their life.

(07:46):
And she was a school teacher and then later on
a suffragette in Ohio. Yeah, well they're there. I believe
their grandfather and probably their father too, was big on
um abolition and um like the whole family kind of
had this uh real defined moral compass that they adhered

(08:07):
to rigidly. Um. They also were taught as a family
to be maybe a little wary and suspicious of outsiders
and that you found your strength and your trust and
your your basis in the family. And that actually kind
of helps explain Wilbur and Orville's relationship. Neither one of

(08:28):
them ever married, and they planned on spending their lives together.
Um that's what they were going to do, and that's
what they did until Wilbur died uh prematurely at age
forty five. Um. Up until that point, they did spend
their lives together. But that what I'm saying is they
were they were going to grow old and die together.
And from the outside it seems really weird, but when

(08:51):
you start to read about them and who they were
and how they connected, it's it's awfully sweet actually, Um
that they had. They had a great love in their
life and it just happened to be their brother, not
in any kind of weird sexual way, not in any
incestuous way. You know. I think the Greeks had like

(09:12):
it does. It does, but we're in don't forget. But
I think the Greeks had four different kinds of love,
and one of them was like a love between two men.
M bromance, sure, but this was brother man's and there
was no man's to it. It was just they They
were brothers that that fit together in a way that
you rarely see siblings do. And they happened to change

(09:33):
the world from that interconnection between them. Yeah, their mom
had a college degree and she was great at fixing
things because her father was a mechanic, and so they
got some of the tinkering from her. Their dad was
a minister and also ran. I think the church newspaper
from what I could gather, and like you said, the

(09:54):
brothers were tight. There was there were four years apart.
But Wilbur wrote to this um on paper. I don't
know if it was a was it a memoir or
did was he just writing? I don't know. I'm guessing
journal I think they kept journals all right. Well, he
said this from the time we were little children. My
brother Oh and I lived together, play together, work together,

(10:15):
and in fact thought together. That's thought, not fought, although
they did apparently go at it in in a spirited
debate kind of way, and they really love doing that.
It wasn't all just like wine and roses. We usually
owned all of our toys in common, talked over our
thoughts and aspiration, so that nearly everything that was done
in our lives has been the result of conversation, suggestions,

(10:38):
and discussions between us. That was a great Katherine Hepburn, Oh,
I could do it as Katherine Hepburn if you want, okay, yeah,
let's start over please. I think there's another quote. I'll
do that one later, okay. So that kind of goes
to show you, like just how how connected these guys
were just from a very very young age, and they
were they were four years apart. I mean, bilings that

(11:00):
are four years apart usually don't keep in touch after
a certain age, let alone spend their lives together, you know. So, UM,
it was pretty cool that they had like that kind
of connection and the fact that the if you put
the two of them together, they were greater than the
sum of their parts. Basically. UM. Apparently Orville was UM
was once you got to know him, he was a

(11:22):
lot of fun to be around. He was If you
had to pick between the two Um as to who
was maybe the more brilliant engineering mind, you probably go
with Orville. But that's not to say that Wilbur was
any kind of slouch UM. And of the two, Wilbur
was the more outgoing UH person UM. Orville was very

(11:43):
very shy, and Wilber even experienced a pretty big dip
in his outgoingness. He had a year's long depression UM
that do railed his college career. He was going to
go to Yale study to become a minister and do
who knows what else, UM, And he was playing hockey
one day, I guess took a stick to the face,
and I think a couple of other things because he

(12:04):
had a long standing digestion and heart problem after that.
But after his face held something, something changed in him,
and he went into a year's long funk, and rather
than go to college, he directed his energy towards nursing
his ailing mom, who was dying of tuberculosis around that time,
and spent a few years rather rather than going to Yale,

(12:27):
staying home and just kind of being pretty down in
the dumps about things. And luckily he had Orville around.
Orville was also indefatigable optimist who helped Um the brothers
through some really dark times and this was one of them. Yeah,
Wilbert didn't even graduate high school because of that, which
is remarkable um. And also didn't know they had street

(12:49):
hockey way back then, so that's something I learned too.
But uh, yeah, at Um Orville was like even from it.
When he was a kid, he would go door to
door um collecting bones and selling them as as fertilizer
to the local fertilizer place. He built a printing press,

(13:10):
and then when he graduated high school, he launched a newspaper,
the West Side News, and that's when he got Wilburg
sort of out of his depression. He's like, come on, brother,
you get on over here. You can be the editor.
I'll be the publisher. Um. It was the same year
their mother finally did pass away in eight nine of TV,
and it seems like that really did kind of save

(13:31):
his brother and put them on a on a renewed
shared path together. I think. Yeah. So, UM the shortly
after that, I'm not quite sure what year it was,
but the bicycle was a big deal. Um. I guess
it was two. I'm sorry. The bicycle craze UM was
in full swing, and they decided that they would um

(13:53):
pool their their common talents together and open a bike
shop in Dayton, UM. And that's what they did. They
had a bike shop for a while, for many many years,
even after they were um steadily experimenting with human flight. UM.
Katherine managed that bike shop. By the way, this was

(14:13):
so you know, she was the only one in the
entire family too, aside from her parents, to graduate from college.
She was the only right child. I couldn't get I
couldn't get a lot I tried to find out. You know.
It's kind of one of those things where when they're
five kids that live into adulthood, and two of them
are the right brothers. You're like, oh, what did the

(14:34):
other ones do? And there was a lot of good
stuff on Katherine and how she assisted them through the years,
but I couldn't really find out anything else about the
other the other ones, the other two were older brothers,
and both of them weirdly became book keep bookkeepers, I
said the first time, but the first one became a
strange from the family, moved to Kansas City. The other

(14:54):
way moved to Kansas City, got homesick and came back
to Ohio and then became a bookke. That was they led, No,
they led rather unremarkable, you know, solid lives. They didn't
renv it the airplane, but there's no sha they didn't.
But Catherine Um, you know the fact that she was
the only right child to graduate from a full four

(15:15):
year college with a degree. Um. She also did that
while she was taking care of the family after her
mother died. Like the whole family was like, well, you're
the only woman here, so you got to the family.
And then she also um came back from college. I
think she went to Oberlin and um became a teacher
while she was also taking care of the family too,

(15:36):
So she does deserve a lot more credit and kudos
than she gets for sure. Uh yes, the c in
the k So let's take a break. Yeah yeah, and
let's talk a little bit about what's going on there
at that bike shop right after this. M all right,

(16:25):
So the brothers have a bike shop, Catherine's running the thing.
They're tinkering around in there. The world. Uh you know,
previous to this bike shop opening in two, like you said,
there were um electric trolleys going around and Carl Binns
had built the first like real good automobile, and these
guys were, you know, they like their bike shop. It

(16:46):
was doing great. But Wilbur was like, you know what,
I see what's going on in France, and I think
that we can do this. Brother, Like, who cares that
we're not college educated? Who cares that I didn't even
finish high school? And who cares that we're just bike
shop owners in Dayton. I think we can we can
invent a powered airplane. They even call them airplanes at

(17:09):
the time, a powered flyer. And so he wrote to
uh the Smithsonian Institution in d C. And said, uh,
should I read his Catherine effort said, I believe that
simple flight is at least as possible to man. I
am an enthusiast, but not a crank. I wish to
avail myself of all that is already known, and then

(17:31):
if possible, add my bit you old poop. That was
a great Truman. It was, and I think that will
probably never happen again. I think there's one more quote,
but that should be Sammy Davis Jr. Do the third
quote is Truman Capponi. Then just keep building like that,
all right? So, uh, the long and short of it
is the secretary of the Smithsonian, a man named Samuel Langley,

(17:56):
got this letter. He was a man who was receiving
a lot of government grant to work on powered flight. Yeah,
it was huge to everybody was working on it at
the everyone was, and he was failing at it. He
had something called the aerodome, which, by the time the
Wright brothers got cranking up, had already failed. Yeah. Um.
Luckily he wasn't a one of those egotistical guys who

(18:18):
controls the purse strings. He said, all right, well, you know,
if you need some information, here's a bunch of information.
And he sent him everything. But they had Yeah. Um,
he sent him like a basically a reading list and
a bunch of journals that they should subscribe to and
start investigating UM, and really kind of helped them get
along their way. UM. This is also a time when

(18:41):
some early flyers we're approaching this scientifically and publishing their data.
Not the least of which was a guy named Otto Lilienthal,
and I we must have talked about him in the
wind Tunnel episode two, because he definitely was a an
inspiration who I actually died during one of his test flights.

(19:03):
And on his tombstone it says sacrifices must be made,
which are has purported last words, which is controversially probably
actually didn't say that, but um, that's what is on
his tombstone. But he left a bunch of tables. So
they started studying, like Auto Lilienthals, like flight test data.
They were subscribing to journals, reading books, just just UM.

(19:24):
They were reading everything they could about the mechanics of
flight and birds and just trying to figure this out. UM.
And they basically through this UM approach, through just basically
absorbing them the data and the theories that were already
out there. They figured out, Okay, we seem to understand, um,

(19:47):
how to get this stuff in the air and keep
it up in the air. We've got like lift and
drag figured out. Um, we have power sources generally figured
out what seems to be the big allunge is controlling
the plane when it's in the air, because that's what
got out of Lenthall, this thing where you actually where

(20:08):
you start to turn and then all of a sudden
the flying craft turns back the original direction and it
causes it to stall, so you no longer have any
lift and you just fall out of the air like
a sack of potatoes. Um. That had to do with
controlling the plane. So the Right brothers identified very quickly
and early on that that was a good thing to
to concentrate on. And that's what they started with, was

(20:30):
figuring out how to control the plane in the air. Yeah,
because as we'll see later on when we get to France,
they they could fly straight, they could fly in a circle,
but they couldn't control straight and circle at the same
time and fly where they wanted to fly, which is
a big key in an airplane is you want to
actually go someplace, not just whatever straight ahead of you.

(20:53):
So they said Uh, Well, here's you know. The big
challenge was the fact that and we've talked about this
a few of our different episodes over the year about
about plane flight. But there's three things you gotta do
when you're up there is you gotta control your pitch,
which is your nose up and your nose down. Your
role which is your wing tips going you know, up

(21:15):
or down and turning you. And then what and then
you got that y'all y'all control one of the Simpson's jokes.
Ever look at that y'all control? Uh, And that is
nose right or nose left, And it's those three things,
those three different xs controlling them all at the same
time stumped everybody. Yes, um, because the flying contraptions that

(21:37):
were being built we're basically gliders. They were basically hang
gliders that people were billy, which was a big first
step that we need to figure out because with a
hang glider you can figure out the shape, the size,
the curvature, the angle of the wing. Uh. And when
the Right Brothers came into this this field, when they

(21:57):
decided to cast their lot and to figure out how
to fly I Um, basically people figured had thought they
had already figured out the wing. Um, but that one
thing about seeing, like controlling the wing to moving from
one side to the other without stalling out. Um, Like
I said, they kind of studied the mechanics of birds,
and one of them noticed, I guess it was wilbur

(22:18):
Um noticed that when a bird banks, the actual shape
of its wing changes, so that when the wing twists
a certain way, it causes air to go above it,
to build up above it or below it, which means
that you're going to turn one way or the other,
depending on which way your wing is curved. And he said, Hey,

(22:38):
if we could figure out how to make our wings
do that, that might really work. But how about how
about how chuck? Yeah, so here's the sort of movie
one of the aha moments, and hopefully it happened like this.
This is a great story if it wasn't. But he
was in his bike shop. He sold a dude an
inner tube and was holding the empty box when the
guy left, and he said, by Zeus's beard, this looks

(23:02):
like two parallel wings of a biplane. And when I
twist this thing just right, the right wing tips curved
down and the left wing tip curves up. On this box,
and he was like, I think I have just stumbled
upon the way to do this, except we're gonna do
it initially with what was basically sort of like a

(23:23):
glorified box kite. We're gonna do it with wires running
through the wings that you can twist and warp these
things from the ground, which was a big, big deal.
They were doing this in Dayton. People would walk by
and they're like, man, that is one crazy kite. I've
never seen a kite do this kind of stuff. Oh,
I think you should do that in Sammy Davis, that

(23:45):
is one crazy kite, babe. So yeah, so they were
in Dayton still at this point, flying this box kite around,
and they were starting to get the hang of bending
these wings to their will to make it do stuff.
Yeah that's man. It has changed not just the podcast,

(24:06):
but my life frankly for the better. So yeah, they
start testing out on as kites. So it's just pretty
sensible because you know, the goal ultimately is to get
a human in there and then to power the whole thing,
but you know, you want to make sure that thing's
not going to crash or stall out or whatever. So
they would do um there. They would build these gliders

(24:26):
and then basically control them like kites before they got
in there, very sensibly, um, which I think is a
pretty smart move. Yeah, they just started building them bigger basically,
like each one was a little bit bigger than the
one before, right, And then once once they would see
like okay, yeah, this principle actually works, um, then they
would start to get into the to the glider. They

(24:47):
would convert the kite to a glider and then try
themselves with them in there. So they again the purpose
was to get a person aloft. It's supposed to be
human flight, um, but they really lies that to get
a human in the air, you needed a really really
big glider or you needed a really good strong headwind.

(25:09):
And they didn't have the money or the resources to
build a really really big glider of the size that
it would have taken to just fly it around Dayton,
So they started looking for places that have um, really
high winds. And I mean, if this is going to
be turned into a really good movie, there's going to
be like letter writing scenes, because they did a lot
of letter writing, and it actually like moves the story

(25:30):
forward quite frequently. Is one of those cases they wrote
to the National Weather Service or the U. S. Weather Bureau,
and they said, hey, can do you have any wind
data around the United States? And they said, by God, sorry,
by Zeus Beard, we do. We have reems of that stuff.
And they sent them the September and August I believe

(25:51):
weather data for the United States, all the weather stations
across the United States. And they started pouring over the
data looking for reliable, um strong winds. They found several. Yeah.
What they wanted though, was um they wanted to kind
of work in private. So they said, who has a
lot of wind and not many people around? And where
they landed, uh quite literally was Kitty Hawk, North Carolina.

(26:15):
And this is at the outer banks of North Carolina,
which now, um is sort of a different place. I
mean it's still um it's not like Daytona Beach or anything.
But back then there was like not much of anything there,
had really good wind, had sandy dunes that if you
did crash this thing, it wouldn't be as bad as
as crashing like in a in a hard field and

(26:37):
like a frosty field. And Dayton, Ohio. And so they
said this is the place, Let's go down to Kitty Hawk. Uh.
They did so in nineteen hundred with a seventeen foot
wingspan glider. They had that same you know, same wire
technology to bend these wings like the box kite, and
they couldn't get it off the ground with a passenger,

(27:00):
so it couldn't be a glider. And they said, we
still got to treat this thing as a kite. Basically. Yeah,
they went back to the drawing board. They couldn't figure
out what the problem was, Um, and they realized that
there might have been something wrong with the wings, so
they started kind of pouring themselves into the wing a
little more. Um. They figured out that maybe the curvature

(27:21):
of the top of the wing needed to be taller
and closer to the front, and they came up with
another glider, the nineteen o one glider, which had a
twenty two ft wingspan, and went back to Kitty Hawk UM,
and this time they did manage to get in the air. Um.
They took this glider for a flight, but just like
with Otto Lilenthal, it's stalled out with Wilbur on it

(27:43):
and it crashed to the ground. He cracked his head
open on a strut, a wing strut, I believe, and
Um could have died. He was very lucky he didn't die,
but he didn't UM And they said, okay, well back
to the drawing board. We we've got to figure this out.
And they figured something out that I think probably pushed
them along. They what they were doing wasn't wrong. They

(28:06):
were following data that was wrong from the guy who
died from auto lilienthal. They should have been their first clue.
They figured right. They figured out that his data wasn't
particularly reliable um Or it was just plain old and correct,
and that there's always soo something called Smeaton's coefficient, which
was the value for air density that you would use
when you're figuring out things like drag or lift. And

(28:30):
they went back to the drawing board and said, we
are going to have to conduct our own experience and
create our own tables. And this is when they built
their very famous now thanks to our episode on wind tunnels.
Wind tunnel, that's right, UM. They like we said there
were wind tunnels around, but they had one themselves. I
think it's about six ft long, and they built two

(28:52):
hundred little model wing designs. Because you know, we said
it before, but it bears in mind repeating it. They're
working with UM these wings are stacked, so it's not
just like it's not a well is that funny? Forgive it?
I think I know what you're talking about. It it's
not just a single wing coming out each side. It's

(29:14):
like a biplane or a box kite. So you've got
you've got four different well not four different, it's really
two different things you're trying to figure out. But you've
got four wings. And you know, they had to carve
these things to um. You know, they like what if
the top wing is a little bit different and the
bottom wing is a little bit different. So it's a
lot of experimentation that went into this, and they built

(29:36):
two hundred model wings, uh and tested them in that
little wooden wind tunnel. And the real key though, was
that they had equipment that could very accurately measure that
lift and drag and they could really kind of stack
everything out head to head and see which one worked
the best. Yeah, they which combination right there. Yeah. They

(29:57):
built what are called balances, which measure the movement of
the say like the wing or the the movement of
the air around the wing. Um. We talked a lot
about that in the wind tunnel episode, but I didn't
realize that engineers basically consider that the balances that they
created to be on par if not exceeding the impressiveness

(30:19):
of the fact that they achieved flight. Like these balances
were not so precise and they built them out of
old bike spokes and hacks all blades, But that that
was one of the things that were well known for
was they could take they could say, oh, yeah, hacks
all blade, what could I use this for? And they
would just fit it into different scenarios in their mind

(30:40):
and say, oh, I could do this, or I need
to build this. What could I use for this? And
they would come up with hacks all blades and bike
spokes and then more impressive than that, these things would
actually work. So thanks to their dedication to experimentation and
and taking down data and then building these balances that
gave them very very accurate data, they not only were

(31:00):
able to build their own um tables to figure out
which wing shape and form and size was going to
produce the best lift and the best control um they
also were able to revise s. Meeting's coefficient, which has
been in use since the eighteenth century UM from point

(31:20):
zero five to point zero zero three three and if
you if you do the math today using modern equipment.
It was almost exactly precise. And they figured it out
thanks to their hack saws and bike spokes. That's right.
And Jimmy Smeaton sat up in his grave burped out
a little dust bubble, right, and then laid back down.

(31:43):
Uh no, I don't feel like it's to do. So
they have their own data. Now they go back to
Kitty Hawk in two well armed, feeling good. They get
their third glider going based on this data, and it worked.
They carry a person, and they had this you know,
they had this sliding effect that caused Wilbert to crash

(32:06):
in that last flight. So they added a rudder to
stabilize things during turns. And they made thousands of test
flights with this glider over the course of like nineteen
o two and nineteen o three. A couple of times
they went over six feet like you said earlier, in
altitude and a glider, and they said, and I think
it's a great time for a break. They said, I'll

(32:26):
tell you what's next. We've gotta power this thing with
an engine or we're just gliding around like a bird.
So we'll be back right after this to talk about
their power source. Okay, Chuck, Um, so they have they

(33:11):
have the shape, the size, the design of the actual
flying machine, but unless they power it, it's just gliding basically,
And they knew that gliding wasn't going to cut it.
What's more, it's worth pointing out, Chuck, that they had
already contributed to um aeronautics and our understanding of aerodynamics

(33:35):
to an astounding degree that the data sets that they
came up with from their wind tunnel was the greatest
most advanced set of data any scientists one planet Earth
had at the time. And again, these are the self
taught right brothers working in their bicycle shop who are
doing this. But they said that's not enough. We're really close.

(33:55):
We think we can figure this out. We we are
going to invent the airplane basically. Um. And that's what
they said about doing Yeah so um, And I still
can't imagine dude being six feet up the poop your
pants feeling that must have been. You know who could
do it really well? I see Sam Rockwell, oh yeah,
it's either Orville or Wilbur maybe or of both. Yeah. Yeah,

(34:18):
you'd be like Tom Hardy and legend. Yeah, you just
change him up. He wouldn't be twins, but he could
play both parts. That'd be kind of cool. You only
gotta pay one guy, that's right, but you have to
pay him twice. So, uh, they go back to Dayton.
They decided, Uh, they were trying to figure out to
power this thing, and they said, well, if we're gonna
power this, need to figure out the engine and the propeller.

(34:41):
And they thought about the Navy. They were like, the
Navy builds plenty of propellers for their boats, and they
were very surprised to learn that in all those years
that the Navy never really worked on thrust in the
design of a propeller. So they said, thrust is the
key here. So we're gonna go back here and we're
going to carve dozens and hundreds of little tiny propellers

(35:04):
by hand from little tiny pieces of wood. I bet
you love that, don't you. God I love it, And
I mean I try to carve something every time I
go camping, and then thirties five years, I've never carved
anything that was worth keeping. What do you do you
have like a go to like fertility idol or I
used to try and carve like tobacco, pipes and then uh,

(35:27):
just little people and that was just never any good
at whittling and stuff. But it's how would you get
the hole through the pipe that was the problem. Sure,
so you got the pipe, it was just not functioning well.
I would have to then take it homeland, like use
a drill or something. But it never made it. They
always just ended up in the fire. I got you, okay,
but back to where you came from, your stupid pipe.

(35:48):
So they're carving these little propellers and they and and
Dave points out to that they may have been the
first engineers ever to come to the realization that the
same forces that generate lift in an airplane and a
curved wing, which is Bernoulli's principle, was the same force
that worked with a propeller, and that a propeller was

(36:08):
essentially just a wing that's uh vertical in spens. Yeah,
they figured out that there's a direct correlation between lift
and thrust and it just has to do with whether
the wing is horizontal or vertical. And the idea that
they were the first ones to figure this out is
just mind boggling to me. But they seemed to be
and at the very least even if they weren't the

(36:28):
first ones to figure it out, they were the ones
who figured out how to build a propeller blade such
that it did produce thrust. So um, they figured out
how to get this thing to be more than a
glider by propellers moving and pushing the plane through the air,
propelling it, you could say. But they had to figure

(36:49):
out how to power the propellers. And that was a big,
big problem because at the time the thing that had
held people back for a very long time was um
steam technolo ology was basically all you had, and you
just were not going you were you were not getting
off of the ground with a steam engine. UM. So
the Right Brothers apparently wrote a bunch of letters to

(37:11):
a bunch of different engine making companies and said, here
are you know parameters or design parameters. Can you fulfill these?
And they couldn't. Not a single company came back and
said we can do this, although apparently a couple did,
but but said we could do this for you know,
King's ransom, and they're like, we can't afford that. So
the Right Brothers, being the Right Brothers, just said we'll

(37:32):
just do this ourselves. Yeah, we'll go back to that
bike shop and they had a guy work in there
named Charlie Taylor who was a machinist, and he was
you know, it just sounds like another one of these
guys that was just really good at figuring stuff out.
In the movie, Charlie and Catherine would be romantic interests
of one another, would be super cute. Well, there's actually
a sad story later that involves that. But will it

(37:54):
make the story even better for the end? Okay? Um,
let's say just they just had a briefling and maybe
she inspired him to tink her better. Okay, does it
work that way? Sure? I can why not? Or maybe
she gives them the brilliant idea during some like hot coitus. Yes,

(38:15):
I was thinking maybe like a rowboat ride on the lake.
But sure coitus, I guess you could have coitus in
the in the rowboat on the lake. You should just
abandon this. So Charlie builds a sixth grade classes by
the way, I know, we should probably take all that out. Okay.
So Charlie builds a four cylinder engine out of aluminum,

(38:38):
and no one had ever used aluminum before an aircraft construction,
So this was yet another thing that the right, brothers
in Charlie Taylor came up with that would ended up
like revolutionizing aviation. It became the backbone of aviation. He's
using this lightweight aluminum, super strong, super light. And they
connected this thing to the propeller using bicycle chains. Yeah,

(39:01):
and if they if they weren't showing off before, they
were by then because the engine they created, they figured
out they needed a minimum of eight horsepower, and the
engine they created was twelve horse power, so it had
more than enough to to power the propellers which would
produce thrust, which would actually create powered flight. And those
bike chains, um were pretty ingenious too because there were

(39:23):
um two sets of gears, one on each side, going
toward each propeller, and those bike chains connected the propeller
to the engine. But they to keep the propellers from
shooting the I guess it would be yaw out the
yin yang um from creating a gyroscope with the two
propellers going the same way, they decided to have the

(39:45):
propellers going the opposite direction of one another. To make
that happen, they just turned one of the bike chains
into a figure eight. How ingenious is that? Going in
opposite ways kind of like oh, I don't know, like
you see on airplanes these days, exact like, so the
right brothers figured that out too. So now suddenly they
put all this stuff together. They put together some controls,

(40:06):
because remember controls were like one of the big um,
that was one of the big challenges. They figured out
a whole set of controls that controlled the rudder, that
controlled these elevators in the front of the airplane that
kept the nose from diving or lifting too much, um.
And then they had the little lever that that um
warped the wing one way or another to let you bank.

(40:27):
And so they could control pitch, roll and yaw on
a engine powered aircraft with dual propellers, and they were
ready to go. All right, So here's how this thing
is actually flown, which is pretty interesting because you know,
like you said before, UM they were figuring out, like
the biggest trick was how to figure out how to
control this thing so you could make it go where

(40:49):
you wanted it to go, And no one had really
done this effectively yet. So it's sort of um operated
like like you said, like a hang glider, and that
the pilot is laying down on his stomach. In the
middle of the plane, you've got the engine on the right,
and then right in front of the pilot was what
was known as the elevator, which are two little um

(41:12):
stacked wings that could be adjusted in the adjust them
with a little wooden lever and the left hand of
the pilot to control the pitch and that is nose
up or down right. UM. And those apparently used to
go in the back of the plane and otto lilienthal
um crashed with the elevators in the backs of the

(41:32):
right brothers were the ones that moved into the front,
which helped quite a bit. That was a big one. UM.
There is also the hip cradle, yeah that side. Yeah,
it was like using your hips to to steer the
plane basically. UM. And so the the the this little
the hip cradle that you laid in UM was connected

(41:54):
to wires that pulled on the wings that caused them
to warp one way or another. And then it also
was connected to the rudder so that that would stabilize
UM yaw as well. So you had two different mechanisms
that controlled three those three different axis. It really is
super ingenious. Now, all of a sudden, you have a
plane that's that's under human control, right, Like they couldn't

(42:17):
figure out at this point a joystick that could control
all those things at once, So that that hip cradle
was that I think pretty smart um to take off,
Like this is the one thing I actually never knew.
Always wondered how did they Like, surely they didn't have
that engine powerful enough to get them going and take off,
And that is correct. They actually had to get up

(42:39):
in the air for those twelve horses to do their work.
And to do that, they slid this thing on a
dolly on a sixty ft rail basically by the hub
of a bicycle wheel. So they get it going on
this dolly and then it launches and then that's when
the engine has enough I guess enough of the head
start with a thrust to get it going in the air. Yeah,

(43:00):
so when the thing kind of launched off of the rail,
it was in glider mode a little bit. That helped
the engine kick in or take over get enough power. Yeah,
I mean imagine they had the engine going. No they no,
they totally did, but like you were saying, it wasn't
enough to just go from a standstill. They needed that
that glide. That glide to get it started. So on uh,

(43:23):
December sevente am. Actually there was an unsung test flight
that doesn't get a lot of praise. But on December
they tried their first attempt in this this this powered flyer,
and they tossed a coin to see who would go
in Wilbar one and it went um down the track
and went off of the track and crashed immediately and

(43:44):
broke the elevators. So they took three days to repair
the elevators and on the next try, on December seventeenth,
that was Orville's turn, and so he became the first
human to fly in a powered flight. Orville, Orville, right,
did you flew for twelve seconds? Um? Just a few feet?
I believe, I don't. I think it was about at um.

(44:07):
But it was controlled. He landed it, and it was
a It was a genuine powered flight. And from that
first flight, I think even from the one that um
that Wilburg tried three days before, they're like, this is
gonna work. You can tell from the way the controls responded,
and I think this is going to work. We just
gotta we just gotta keep trying. So they did. Yeah,
So on that same day they did three more flights

(44:29):
and the longest one. Wilbur. I love that they were
taking turns. I think it's so cool. Um. Wilbur piloted
eight fifty two ft and about a minute in the air,
which is remarkable. Like this is the moment of the movie,
you know, where everyone is just going crazy. It's like
the high point of the film. And uh, then they

(44:50):
go in and just like a movie, they go inside,
they're having a cocktail, they're warming up and they're so happy,
and a big gust of wind comes in and lifts
this thing off the ground and smashes it and breaks
it into pieces. Oh man, could you imagine? Yeah, so yeah,
I can't imagine seeing that. You'd just be like, oh,

(45:10):
look the things that being lifted into the air, look
at it. Glad. Oh god, no, They're like it's tied down.
And then Sam Rockwell goes to Sam Rockwell, Yeah but
crash right, Yeah, that's the problem. So. Um. They apparently
were not particularly worried about this at this point because
they had already shown multiple times that this proof of

(45:34):
concept was was it would work. Um that they had
they had undertaken the first flight. Uh, they done it basically,
so they Um. They went back to Dayton. They had
a habit of leaving their UM there, their test flyers
at Kittie Hawk because they beat them up so badly
that wasn't worth you know, moving them back UM. And

(45:56):
some of them are preserved. And I believe that first
flyer that they create it is in one of the
air and space museums, maybe maybe in Dayton. I'm not
sure it would make somewhere. It might be at UM
the one out by Dullus maybe, or maybe I've just
seen a replica. I feel like I've seen one in

(46:18):
an airport and not a museum. So that was definitely
a replica. And it was actually only six inches why
and a kid was flying it around. It was our
c control. Yeah, come to think of it, I've got
this all wrong. So the Right Brothers they released a
press release like they were acutely aware of you know,

(46:39):
what they've just done. This wasn't something they had fallen
backwards into. This wasn't something that you know, just happened
through sheer luck like they worked their way too powered flight.
So they let the world know about it, and they
got zero response in return. Basically, yeah, this was pretty disappointing.
I think they, you know, sent out this press release

(47:01):
like you said, and got nothing. And I think they
were like, um, hey, everyone, we flew a plane, like
this thing that everyone's trying to do all over the world.
We did it hi and it was it seems to
be just a case of um. Like like Dave says
a boy who cried Wolf, like these newspaper editors had
been burned by writing about other people who said they've

(47:23):
done it, and they're like yeah, right, um and it
took This is kind of one of the greatest parts
of the story. I think. In September nineteen o four,
a journalist that was writing a beekeeping journal called Gleanings
and b Culture, Mr. I A. Root was the first
person to actually say, yeah, I'll write about this thing

(47:44):
that sounds like a good story. Culture. Who would who
would play him? Who? I John c Riley? I think,
oh yeah, good, good call man. Okay. So so John
c Riley shows up. He he had read about the rights,
and he said can I can I see one of
your flights? And they invited him out and he wrote

(48:04):
about it, and it didn't get much attention at the
time because I don't think Gleanings and b Culture had
a really huge readership. Story though, I think you should
read this quote in whatever whatever accent you want to read. No,
I'm just gonna read a regular God and his great
mercy has permitted me to be at least somewhat instrumental

(48:25):
in ushering in and introducing to the great wide world
an invention that may outrank the electric cars, the automobiles,
and all other methods of travel, and one which may
fairly take a place beside the telephone and wireless uh
telegraphy am I claiming a good deal? Well, I will
tell you my story and you shall be the judge.
So that was pretty good. I mean, for no accent whatsoever. Oh,

(48:49):
I thought you were talking about the actual article. So
um yeah. They still didn't get any kind of attention
from that, but it is a pretty great little footnote
to the whole thing that that was the first article
that was written on them and the Gleanings and bat Culture.
They even wrote the War Department. He said, Hey, we
invented an airplane. Do you want to buy it? And
they said nah. Yeah. One of the reasons why it

(49:12):
was because the War Department was like, well, can you
send us a specifications. The Right brothers were like, no,
we invented this, and yeah, you give us a contract
first and then we'll give you the specifications of the
War Department said Now. Even worse than the fact that
they weren't getting any kind of credit for their accomplishment
and no takers on um selling their their design, was

(49:33):
that over in France. Remember we said that even the
Wright brothers thought that the French would be the first
to a powered flight. Um. The French were convinced that
they would be the first to the power flight and
that they had cracked it. There were Um. There was
a Brazilian balloonist named Alberto Santos Dumont. I think they
made a movie about him recently. He's a super colorful character, right,

(49:53):
I don't know. I believe they did. He gave a demonstration.
I got a movie. Yeah. I feel like they just
called it Dumont with an exclamation point maybe. Um. But
he he flew a plane in Paris, I believe, of
his own design, UM, and it just flew in a
straight line, no control. But it was enough at the time,

(50:15):
because again no one was paying attention to the Wright brothers.
It was enough for the French to be like succer Blue,
you know this is the flight has been achieved, and
the Wright brothers are like, no, this doesn't know. What
we're doing is so much better than this. N o
eight there was a guy, a Frenchman named aure Farman,
who was the first to fly a powered plane in
a one kilometer closed circle. This is nineteen o eight.

(50:38):
It bears mentioning that the Wright brothers, who again their
total outsiders, no one's listening to them. Three years previous
to this they had stopped the experimental stage, they had
reached the point where they had produced a reliable plane.
And by nineteen oh five, three years before this, French
pilot did that one kilometer closed circle flight that just
knocked the socks off of the French um. They had

(51:01):
done a twenty four and a half mile circle in
thirty nine minutes. The Wright brothers had three years before this.
And so imagine accomplishing this and then seeing people doing
like like preschool or stuff compared to what you're doing,
getting all of this praise and attention and press lavished
on them, and no one's listening to you. This is
the situation that the Right Brothers found themselves in at

(51:22):
the time. Okay, so Wilbur has had enough. He goes
to France and nineteen eight on August eight and he said,
you know what, I'm gonna go demonstrate this thing. I'm
gonna show them that flying straight is stupid and I'm
going to show them that we can actually make this
thing turn and do whatever we want. And so he

(51:42):
went to a little small racetrack outside of le Mons
and uh, got on the ground and said, gentlemen, I
am going to fly. And they all spoke French and
they were like what he said, but he said something,
I think he's about to do something big. So uh
he he flew. And if the French were like suckaboo

(52:05):
at that one flight, they were really knocked out at
this one. Uh. They all realized that what was going
on in front of their eyeballs was something that the
French had never accomplished, that no one had ever accomplished before,
and that they were basically done. And uh. There was
a frenchman supposedly that was there that was quoted in

(52:25):
the newspapers by saying, nissen batu, we are beaten. Yeah.
So I mean imagine being like a French at the
time and seeing like, you know, somebody in hang a
hang glider with a bicycle gear on it and being like,
people are flying, people are flying, and then somebody shows
up in like a piper cub is like watch this.

(52:48):
That was kind of the level of knock your socks
off that that the French saw, um, and that was it.
Like from that point on, the right brothers were overnight sensations.
They were the first superstars of the twenty century for
being the first to fly, and they finally started to
get their claim. So, yeah, these guys are superstars. Katherine

(53:09):
is actually, uh, if you remember, we haven't talked about
her in a bit, she's actually a superstar too, because
she goes with them. She learns French for the express
purpose of helping the brothers out while they go on
an eventual European tour. Um she negotiates a deal with
because these guys, you know, I get the sense that
neither one of them were businessmen, and they really sort

(53:31):
of had their head in the invention game. And so
Catherine was really key for you know, initially managing that
bike shop and then helping them out with their journaling
and data keeping, and then she's the one that actually
negotiated with the army, because, yeah, the army said, hey,
we'll give you guys some money. We'll give you guys
twenty dollars as a grant, but you've got to be

(53:52):
able to fly a pilot and a passenger. Um, and
I presumably you know a couple of pomps or something
and a gun maybe sure would be my guess, at
the very least a guy with a rifle. Yeah. Side,
was this before or after um the tragic game of
hide and Seek with Katherine and Charlie Taylor where he

(54:14):
hid in the trunk and got locked in and suffocated
to death that you referenced earlier. I don't know. I'm
not sure, okay, but it was around that time from
what I understand, right, I think so. So Katherine, she
negotiates this money, and wilbur Uh is in France and
Orville at this time, goes back to d C and
he eventually, in d C does a flight that goes

(54:36):
for seventy minutes. Yea. So the French when they saw this,
the French governments like, take our money, how much do
you want for this plane? And they started to negotiate
with France to sell their military planes. That got the
attention of the U. S. War Department finally said Okay,
we're on board. We'll start buying planes from you too.
And one of the things that a lot of people
don't realize about the Rights is that they spent several

(54:58):
years UM around this time training the militaries of the
US and Europe how to fly planes and selling them
planes instructors. Yeah, they really were so um. During one
of this these training I guess kind of demonstrations, Orville
had a passenger named Lieutenant Thomas Selfridge, and they went

(55:20):
up and we're circling a field and I'm not quite
sure what malfunction they had. Do you know what what
it was? Uh? No, I just know that Orville had
to cut, you know, cut the engine basically and try
and land. He was going to try to glide in
and it didn't go very well. The plane, I guess,
lost its lift and just fell out of the sky again,
which was a real problem back in those days. And

(55:42):
um Orville broke some ribs, um he sprained his back,
but Thomas Selfridge died. He foctured his skull. He became
the first casualty of a powered airplane crash in the
history of humanity, which is kind of a dubious honor. Really. Yeah,
it was Orville recovered, of course. Uh. He came to

(56:03):
France and this is when Catherine also came to France,
and this is where they did their big sort of um,
sort of the victory tour, where they were demonstrating this
thing all over Europe. People loved it. It was huge. UM.
And like you said earlier, they were Wilbur and Orville
and Catherine for were the first big celebrities of the

(56:23):
twentieth century. It's it's pretty astounding. And Orville was like,
where's Charlie Taylor? And Katherine was like, I don't know,
I haven't seen him in like a year now. He
just kind of dropped off the face. So strange. So UM.
When they their company became established, the right company to
design and build planes. UM, when that got again got

(56:46):
off the ground, sorry everybody. UM. Orville was kind of
dedicated to the actual production and invention side, while Wilberg
dedicated himself to the business side, meaning he ran around
suing anybody he thought was infringing on their patents. UM.
And he spent a lot of time doing that again.
Remember they were kind of raised not to trust outsiders

(57:07):
like they trusted their family. Um, which is the opposite
of the stuff you should know motto UM. And on
some trip while he was I believe filing one of
these patent infringements, were investigating it. He died. After a
trip to Boston, he caught typhoid and I looked, and
typhoid Mary was not cooking at the time. She was

(57:29):
on hiatus. Because I thought, wouldn't that just be amazing
if he caught typhoid from typhoid Mary? But he did
not um or as far as I could find, he
did not. So he went back home to Dayton and
he died. And he was only forty five actually. And
remember Orville and Wilbur planning to like spend the rest
of their lives together. So this had a pretty big
effect on Orville. Yeah, I get the sense. And this

(57:52):
is where I sort of hinted earlier about Catherine and
her romance. Um. She went with him and kind of
stayed with Orville. He he didn't have much interest in
running the right company anymore, so he sold it in
nineteen fift sold all their patents for a million bucks
about six million dollars today, so a huge sum of

(58:13):
money to you know, retire for the rest of your life.
And that's what he did. Um, he still did stuff
and this was a Hawthorne Hill is big mansion in Dayton. Um.
Like he built an automatic toaster that sliced the bread. Um,
he built a system of chains that let him adjust
the furnace from upstairs. He built a circular shower, like

(58:36):
he was he was never gonna stop building things. But
it was all I got the sense, and just sort
of retirement hobby sort of way. But Catherine, the sad
ending there is. Um she met a man and fell
in love I can't remember his name, and decided to
get married and was really nervous about Orville. I think
he was so used, so dependent on her being around

(59:00):
that that she rightfully was scared and she was correct.
And he refused to speak to her ever again after
she got engaged and got married, which is really kind
of credty. Uh, that's the nicest way to say it.
And and it made me kind of think ill of
him at the end, and she got pneumonia and was dying.

(59:22):
Basically he still wouldn't talk to her. And finally one
of his friends said, you gotta go talk to Catherine, man,
this is your sister. And apparently he did arrive at
her deathbed at least, but but she had died. Yeah,
well I don't I think he got there first, but
she she did pass away of pneumonia, and us just

(59:42):
very sad ending to her story of after not getting
much credit over the years and sort of being at
the beck and call of these brothers that were brilliant
inventors and being a key part of their team, and
then being too scared to tell her brother that she
had fallen in love and getting married. It was really sad.
That is very sad. Um So she so Orville outlived
her as well, Huh, I didn't realize that. Well, he kept,

(01:00:05):
like you said, tinkering kind of in retirement as a
as a as a consummate inventor for the rest of
his life and he actually died. Um. Well, he suffered
a heart attack while fixing a doorbell and then died
three days later, apparently super alone. I didn't realize that
that was a real bummer ending that hadn't anticipated, Chuck,
It's a double bummer. I thought we were gonna end

(01:00:27):
it kind of like um him saying him being like
I invented to the end, and then you know, the
the SUSA band starts playing I got mad at my
sister because she found love and I never did. Yeah,
or he did find love and it was his brother
who died years before. Perhaps, so that's it for the

(01:00:50):
right brothers. Huh, that's it. Evil Kinevel got a two
parter and the Wright brothers didn't. He broke more bones.
We're never gonna live that down. Nope, I'm never going
to let us live live at that down. Ah, you
got anything else? Nothing? Did I say that already? Maybe? Okay?
Either way, it's time for a listener mail. I'm gonna

(01:01:14):
call this from a ten year old fan. We love
hearing from our young listeners. Hi, guys, my name is
Quinn and I'm ten years old and from Vancouver, BC.
I really enjoy listening to your podcasts on my way
to school. The two most interesting podcasts that I've listened
to so far, so what about soap? It's really cool
how soap is made? And the second one about porcupines.
It's so cool that the old world porcupines have straight quills.

(01:01:38):
Now the New world porcupines have barbed quills and how
they're harder to get out of your body. I am
very interested in the Titanic and the story behind it,
and I was wondering if you guys ever thought of
doing a podcast on the Titanically. Yeah, we totally should
if you have. It's a very interesting topic to listen to.
Uh So if you thought about doing that, then maybe

(01:01:58):
you could do it. It would give me something to
look forward to on the car right to school. I
really hope you read this email, and I'm also hoping
that you can write back if you have time. You guys,
keep up the good work, and please keep making podcast
for me to listen to all caps. Thank you so much, sincerely, Quinn.
That was a great email, Quinn, thanks a lot for
It's great and that cute thing happens to where it's

(01:02:20):
from the parents email, which is always one of my
favorite things. So I wrote back to Quinn's I think
dad and said to tell Quinn that this is gonna
be uh it's gonna be a listener mail. So yeah, Quinn,
We've been wanting to do a Titanic episode for a while,
but there was a period there where everyone had seen
Titanic so recently the movie that it was like, why

(01:02:43):
why would you even bother to do an episode on it?
Right now? Everybody like it? Now, that's not what James
Cameron says. Now we can do one, and it's high time.
I've wanted to since since day one. So listen out
for a Titanic episode and know that that that came
from you there, Quinn. Yeah, that'll be a two part probably,
we'll see. Only time will tell. If we mentioned Evil

(01:03:05):
Kinevel in it, then yes, it probably will. Write. If
you want to get in touch with this, like Quinn did,
we are always on the lookout for emails from you.
You can send it to us at stuff podcast at
iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a
production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio,
visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

(01:03:27):
listen to your favorite shows.