Bad Moms

Caitlin and Jamie tackle Bad Moms! Happy Mother's Day!!!

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Dog Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and Best
start changing it with the Bell Cast. Hi, mommies, how's
that good? That was great? Mommies. Welcome to the back

(00:26):
door gass mommies and non mommies. But you know this week,
mommy has come to the front of the line. That's right.
I make no mistake, not just good mommies, but bad
mommies to bad mommies as well. Welcome bad mommies to
the bad Mommies episode of UM. I was almost gonna say, like,

(00:47):
this is how traumatized I am at this point where
I was almost gonna say, like, Caitlin, we can be
bad podcasters, but you know that that's just giving an
asshole like a template of a mean iTunes review. So
I'm like, better not do it. Okay, So this is
this is our annual Mother's Day episode. I miss I
miss my Mom. Yeah, I miss my Mom. She's doing okay,

(01:08):
although her health is not. She has lime disease I think,
and she has a lot of pain from that. But
then she's like well, what if it's COVID nineteen, So
no one knows anything. But my mom's health is a
little precarious at the moment, but I think she'll be fine.
I think my mom Yeah, similar deal. My mom has

(01:29):
rheumatoid arthritis and it's been I think it's just like
if you already have chronic pain, being cooped up in
your house NonStop just doesn't do it any favors. So
like she and and she's also I'm shout out to
Jill because I'm pretty sure she's been a loyal listener
throughout the choir. Oh Jill, because she has been teaching
her second grade class still um through through Zoom through Zoom,

(01:55):
which I'm like, I shout I mean shout out to
where this is a weird started the episode, but it's
a quarantine episode so that doesn't matter, but shout out
to like all the parents and teachers right now who
are making school happen over zoom. I truly cannot wrap
my head around that students too, Like it's just who

(02:18):
it's it's amazing. Not to brag or anything, but I
teach online screenwriting classes, which I always forget to plug
on the podcast. But if anyone's interested in learning screenwriting
from yours? Truly someone with a master's degree in screenwriting
that I absolutely hate to bring up. But um, I
teach classes through Zoom but I only have like a

(02:40):
cap it at five students per section and they're all,
you know, adults, so and I'm like, I can barely
handle that. Well, it's like that's the thing is, Like
I've been in our writer's room like during the days,
and I'm like, I am an adult woman. Who I
It's so hard to pay attention. It's so hard. I'm like,

(03:00):
why am I on eBay? Like I this is my job.
I hope no one for I don't think that. But anyways,
I've been on eBay and I'm doing my job. But
I'm like on eBay so you know, we can all
be It feels good to be bad, the wise person
What's told me? Well, that's sort of the theme of
the movie. It feels good to be bad. And we're back.

(03:23):
Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. This is uh, this is
if you're a new listener, what a weird start. This
is our podcast about the representation of female identifying characters
in movies. We use the Bechdel test as a jumping
off point for discussion. But what is the Bechdel test? Well,

(03:46):
I asked myself each and every week. I'm happy to
answer your question. It is a media metric originally developed
by cartoonist Alison Bechtel, sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace test,
and it requires ars that the narrative have two female
identifying characters with names who speak to each other about

(04:08):
something other than a man. And the specific metric that
we use is it has to be a two or
more line exchange of dialogue. And a lot of movies
cannot manage this simple metric. And interestingly, and we'll be
talking about this iconic duo. I mean when people say,

(04:29):
like Caitlin and Jamie, name a more iconic duo, I
automatically say John Lucas and Scott More. Uh. But you know,
many movies that the writers of this movie have have
written in no way past the Backtel test. We've got
a weird We've got a weird one today. There's pros
and there's cons, but we're here. There's discourse. I wanted

(04:50):
before we get into it, because it's where it's just
the two of us today. Um, So I was curious
I have. I've just been interested in hearing like other
podcasters that I listened to, just like, what is like
a thing in quarantine that you've gotten into, or like
a show or a thing that you're like. I have

(05:10):
been rewatching, Um a show that I really enjoy that
I had only seen once. But Over the Garden Walls. Oh, yes,
you recommended that to me? Yes, I I can't recommend
it enough. It's short, it's fun, it's cookie um. It
was originally on Cartoon Network, it's on Hulu now. I
really enjoy it. Um so fun. Any any over the

(05:32):
Garden Wall heads out there, you let me know. I'm
going to recommend a show that I've been watching really
because I've also been like working three jobs in the core,
which is like it doesn't make anything like it's very lucky,
but it also is like just really fuss with your
head a little bit. But I watched the first season
of On Becoming a God in Central Florida, and it's

(05:57):
really good. Kirsten Dunst is gray nice and I love it.
So that's our cor Rex. Yeah, cor Rex, let's talk
about bad moms. Let's do it. So, yes, we don't
have a guest today, but I did. I wanted to
get some you know, opinions of moms and whether or
not this movie resonated with moms. So, um, I have

(06:21):
a few little, you know, tweets to share and stuff
like that, mom tweets. What what was your history? Do
you have a history with this movie? Uh No, I don't.
I had never seen it, nor it's sequel A Bad
Mom's Christmas. Didn't. I just skipped them. I based on
what I knew about them when they came out and
like who was making them and stuff. I was like,

(06:44):
I don't think these are going to be for me. Yeah,
I was right, say not because of the premise, more
just because of the writing style and the like the
comedic sensibilities of these writers and stuff like that. I
just like the bloated big budget comedy genre asthetic, like

(07:06):
this specific aesthetic and like don't, I don't, it's not
even really I guess it's kind of a genre. It's
also not for me. Uh yeah. So this movie came out,
I mean fairly recently. I had seen I've seen Bad
Mom's Christmas. I watched it because Christine Baranski was in it,
and I didn't love the movie. But I did love

(07:28):
Christine Branski and and Susan Surrandon's in it. She's pretty,
she's good in it as well. It's I honestly, I
will say I really preferred Bad Mom's Christmas to Bad
Moms Interesting. But I think that that might just be
because you get like twice the amount of twice the moms.
Twice the moms. You have Cheryl Hines, Christine Baranski and

(07:51):
Susan Stain like those, they're all like, you know, knocking
it out of the park, even though the writing still,
stay with me, stinks, But you have like twice the
amount of fun performances. So it's it just was more fun.
But sure, yeah, I saw, I watched watched Bad Moms.
I it's it's frustrating because it's like, and we'll talk

(08:11):
about this a lot, because it's like a really good
premise and like a really strong cast, and everything I
dislike about the movie has to do with the way
it's written and directed. And then when you're like, oh,
it was written and directed by the Hangover guys, of
course I don't like it. Yeah, So it's it's kind

(08:32):
of a bummer because I'm sure that it would have
been impossible to make this movie without their co signing
of it, which is frustrating in itself, and then everything
I don't like about the movie is them getting in
the way of a good premise and a good cast. So, um,
I'm glad it exists, but uh, you know, generally was like,
we gotta be able to do better in this come

(08:53):
on there, we most certainly can we and I think
that we have. That was another thing that before we
super jump into it, I did a little research, as
I've been known to do, wow brag perhaps some context.
I was just looking into like where moms have been
represented in comedic movies, and there's really not that much.

(09:17):
There is not a ton There's a lot of movies
that have moms in them but are not about moms.
So it's like this movie was a huge hit. It
made a hundred eighty million dollars off a two million
dollar budget, So to me that indicates, you know, like
this is clearly a market. People want this movie, and

(09:37):
it was like reasonably well received. But yeah, because they're there,
there's just not really moms represented as like a central
focus in movies where you do see a lot and
I think, like a lot better than what this movie
has to offer is there's a lot of TV that's
come out in the past couple of years that is
comedy focused around motherhood. And so it's just I hope

(10:02):
that and I mean, god knows how or if movies
will be made anymore. Um that this is the end
of the industry as we know it, probably, but it's
like Christine Baranski is going to be in like a
plastic bubble. You know, it's gonna be a whole thing.
But but I hope that, you know, I was encouraged
at least to see. I mean, there's a ton of

(10:23):
comedy shows of all different like genres of comedy. There's
like network comedy, there's niche about mothers, but it just
is not represented in movies. So this is just kind
of like what there is right now. Wild But you know,
if you're if you're a mom looking for all, Um,

(10:44):
when this episode comes out, I'll try to do a
little thread of like TV recommended watching because it seems
like that's where the options are. Yeah, that'd be great.
And with that, should we do the recap and go
from there? Let's do it. So the story of bad
Moms bed Mummies. Um, we meet bad Mummy number one,
although she's not bad Mummy yet. She's good Mummy. But

(11:06):
they're but they're they're bad. Sometimes they're all like good moms.
But they also go through really long montage sequences that
I fast forwarded like shot truly, like we I can't
talk about visual jokes in the because I just and
they're all three minutes long. It's too every These guys
they just love a long, expensive montage and I just

(11:28):
don't care about it. That are like in slow motion.
There's like some you know, poppy bop in the background
and it's just like this, you get one of those.
Don't have fourteen in your movie? Yeah, And like can
you be three characters that we at least know? Like there?
But by the time the first like at length cameo

(11:50):
comes in, I'm like, I think I know one thing
about Kristen Bell's character. How am I supposed to be
like reveling in this? Like wow, like you don't know?
You really only know? I would you really only get
to know Mila Kunas in this movie. I think you
know one thing about Kristin Bell, which is that her
husband sucks and that I mean that's just John Lucas

(12:11):
and Scott More No matter who they're writing for, they
only know how to write broad stereotypes for sure. So
you just don't get to know Kristin Bell and Catherine Han.
You just don't. But first we barely get to know
Amy Mitchell. That's uh Mila Kunis's character. Were you were
you frustrated? Okay, so I'm sorry, I'm like this movie

(12:34):
was really Were you frustrated in the first scene where
they're introducing her, when she's like, uh, I sweat and
workout class and You're like, you're Mela kuni is. Give
me a break there, don't I don't like when movies
are like Melacunas is so awkward and you're like, no,

(12:55):
she isn't she? I think she was miscast in this role.
But also who would have been cast in a such
a broad stereotyped role like this? I mean, who would
this be good for? Really? I think Mela Conics is
so talented. We've seen her be amazing and I feel

(13:18):
like she is. Yeah, she is very miscast in this movie. Yeah,
so is Kristin Bell. I think that true. Like of
the main cast, I think that like Christina Applegate and
Catherine Han are pretty well cast, but it's only because
they're playing characters that they've been forced to play before
that are not fair to them. Where it's like, oh,
Christina Applegates is going to play like an uptight, rude

(13:41):
person and she's been she's had to do that forever,
and like Catherine Hans going to play like a very
you know. It's like and I hope they had fun
and they did a good job, but it's even when
it's properly cast, her like this still is like not
very nice. I don't know. Okay, where were we we have?
We men ate me more egg. She's boring, she's she's overworked,

(14:03):
she's underappreciated. She had her first kid when she was twenty.
She is now thirty two. She has two kids, Jane
and Dylan. Um, they do a bunch of extracurricular activities,
but she's always trying to you know, make it to
like go to the you know events in the games
and the recitals and whatever. But um, she's always late

(14:24):
to everything. That's her thing. She's late to everything. She's
such a bad mom. She has a part time job
at a hipster coffee company, working in sales. I think
we'll talk about that but this is a piece of
WRITINGGG that is so like roll your eyes into the
back of your head, okay, boomer that I was so

(14:45):
annoyed by it, where it's like just clearly two out
of touch dudes being like millennials in the workplace. They
take two weeks off when John snow dies and you're like,
mel coolness is a millennia? What are you taught? Like?
They're they're so like avocado toe, like they're just they're stupid.

(15:07):
They're stupid, and that anytime the workplace thing came up,
I was just deeply annoyed because it just made it
made no sense. It was very frustrating. Yes, but that's
her job, and um, she just always has so much
going on and she's worried that she might be a
bad mom. There's also this group of judgmental moments that

(15:29):
shame Amy for like having a job and being so busy.
The queen bee of them is Gwendolen, which is Christina
Applicates character. And then she has two friends played by
Jada Pinkett Smith and Annie Mamlo. Give Jada Pinkett Smith
more lines what she was fairly a character. I want
to think best case scenario. There's like a whole like

(15:50):
there are scenes with Jada Pinkett Smith that just like
had to be cut for some reason because I'm just like,
why would you go through the trouble of getting someone
who is like truly awesome in a movie where it
is like very very white and then get this like
iconic black actor and then give her no lines. It's
so it's annoying on many levels, truly, yes, uh. And

(16:13):
then like Annie Mamalo who co wrote Bridesmaids, like she's
just like pigeonholed into this like idiot type, but like
she's funnier than that, like give her opportunities to shine.
And also well, that's like seeing Annie Mamalo in this
movie is super frustrating because you're just like, why didn't
you let her write this movie? Right? She's we like,

(16:34):
she's she is infinitely more qualified to do it, and
you're just gonna make her like again, another like very
talented person in this movie who has three lines, and
you're like, what, I hope she got a boat. But
like any Mamalo is a parent. She is the same
age as like the writer directors of this movie. She
already had Bridesmaids under her belt with this game out,
Why couldn't she have written it like great questions, great

(16:57):
questions all around. It's it's be fuddling yep. Um, so
that okay. So Amy has a her husband, this guy
Mike infuriating storyline. Yes, um he his whole thing is
that he's pretty immature. He's kind of a doof he
like doesn't really do anything to help around the house.

(17:18):
And then one night Amy catches him masturbating to a
cam girl. Um, which she apparently has been doing for
ten months. So she kicks him out of the house.
The next day, she has a terrible day. You know,
she spills coffee on herself, she spills spaghetti on herself. Oh,

(17:38):
she's such a clutz, Caitlin, She's such a clutz. She's
such a bad mom. Her dog has vertigo because modern
parents be having vertigo dogs. You're like, I'm just like,
there's some things in this that You're just like, this
is more of a rich person thing. Dogs on vertigo

(17:59):
medication sounds kind of like a rich person thing. Uh.
They're like there. I also, I mean, there is like
a storyline with the husband, but it was like another frustrating.
I feel like the writer directors John and Scott are
are kind of like both cutting themselves like and telling
on themselves through the husband character, because it's kind of

(18:22):
like a character we've seen before of like, oh, he's
not a bad person, he's just like kind of a
du fist. He's just dumb. He would never hurt his
wife on purpose. I mean, I think it's like goofy
and fits the tone of the movie, but it also
just means like, oh, no, guy is gonna like super
recognize themselves in that character or interrogate anything about themselves.

(18:43):
They're like, Oh, he's dumb, I'm an amazing husband, I'm
a good dad. That was annoying. So Amy has had
this horrible day, and at the p T eight meeting
that night, Gwendolen, who is the PTA president, is like me,
you're on the like police force at the bake sale

(19:04):
or some poor just like she's a star. Why does she?
I mean yeah, but yeah, her her character is like
bitchy obstacle. So Amy is like, no, I'm not gonna
do your thing, suck it. I quit, And we're like

(19:25):
quit what being a mom? What's happening? So then, but
then she's like, yes, the Christie, I yeah, I like
the Another major writing flaw in this story is that
the writer's bravely instead of examining where do these pressures
on mothers come from, like what systems are enforcing it,

(19:48):
they instead make the reason that things are difficult for
all mothers be Christina Applegame. It's her fault that that
every modern mother fields pressure and feels insecure, inadequate, it's
actually Christina Applegate's fault. And by ruining Christina Applegate and

(20:09):
and by that, I mean to say, pit women against
women for really no reason. You can solve that. Yes,
But before all the really transpires, Amy decides to be
a bad mom. So basically she goes to a bar
to blow off some steam fun and there she sees
Carla Catherine Han's character, who is this horny, irresponsible single

(20:34):
mom type, and Kiki Kristen Bell's character, who is an
isolated stay at home mom with four kids and no
friends type. So you can see there's an attempt here
to show different kinds of mothers, but then the writing
doesn't really do anything to subvert or expand on those types,

(20:56):
and it just ends up being types exactly there's like
no nuance. They are these one dimensional characters. No thought
was put into them aside from just like identifying them
as these stereotypes and writing them as such. And it's
I guess to be fair is the wrong preface to

(21:17):
this sentence, but like that is all John Lucas and
Scott Moore know how to do with characters of any gender.
If you look at the hangover, you also see like
three types of bro that like they're not challenging in
their writing, um to put it lightly, and so yeah,
you just end up like it's nice that you have

(21:39):
three different types of mothers. You have like a working
mom in a relationship, you have stay at home mom,
you have a single mom. This all sounds like cool,
all right, different kinds of moms. Let's explore it. But
then we just don't explore it, and we kind of
just like that that they got to step one. So
at the bar they talk about how hard it is

(22:00):
to be a good mom in this day and age,
how there's so many rules and expectations to be perfect.
So then Amy is like, screw it, let's be bad moms.
Parentheses two thousand sixteen, written and directed by Josh Lucas
and Scott More. That's the name of the movie there.
That was when my boyfriend walked in during that scene

(22:21):
and it was just like oh boy, and then he
just like left after that line. He's like, I'm gonna
go get lunch yep. Um, all right, let's let's take
that moment to take a quick break because we're at
break time, and then we'll come back and keep going.

(22:44):
We're back, um okay. So the good moms have decided
to be bad moms. Now they're bad. They're bad moms.
They said it. It was the end of the first act,
and we're like, all right, they are bad moms. They
get drunk at the bar, then they go wild at
the rosary store. The next morning, Amy is all hungover

(23:05):
from her wild night and her kids are like, what
the hick And she's like, I'm a bad mom. Now
make your own freaking breakfast. She takes her kids to
school and her husband's muscle car. She skips work and
goes to the movies in lunch with her new friends
Kiki and Carla. Then we've got the bake sales scene there.

(23:27):
Amy flirts with Jesse, this hot widower dad, but then
Gwendolen comes over and she's like, Amy, if you don't
stop being a bad mom, I'm gonna make your life
a living hick. Then a scene happens off screen where
Amy learns that her husband is staying with his internet girlfriend.

(23:50):
This information happens in a scene that does not play
out on screen, right, and then you're just like, h like,
that's not good writing. It's not good writing. And then
I was just like, I also don't care, Like, yeah,
I don't care. I'm not rooting for them to get
back together, but I'm also not rooting for this random
widower character comes in. I like, it's almost like their

(24:12):
shoehorning or romantic plot into the movie where no one
cares about it and it doesn't really belong perhaps but anyway,
so um, this scene happens off screen. But then the
aftermath is Carla being like Amy, you need to get laid,
and she's like, yeah, I do. So the three of
them go out to a bar. But not only is

(24:34):
Amy a bad mom, now she's also a bad flirter.
She's bad at flirt montage. Yeah, another montage, another long,
horribly edited, might I say, montage showing her being bad
at flirting, but then Jesse, the hot widow or dad,
shows up and they start flirting and then they have

(24:58):
a little kiss a little and we're like, Okay, she
got what she wanted. I do want to talk about
that kind of romantic storyline a little later on UM,
because I there's some interesting things there. But anyway, so
the next morning, Amy wakes up to her husband having returned,
and she's like, get out of here. And we're like,

(25:18):
all right, he was a character for a minute. Yeah,
I wasn't sure, just because like they're not good writers.
I'm like, I wonder if he's just never gonna be
mentioned again. But he has mentioned again, but I still
don't care about him, So it just ended up kind
of being like a moot point. I was like, well,
I guess that that's what's happening, right. They could have
written him out if they wanted me to want to

(25:39):
see him, They could have written a better character. Then
Amy finds out that her daughter Jane got benched for
her soccer game because Gwendolen like blackmailed the soccer coach. Basically,
so Amy is like, okay, well then I'm gonna run
against you for pta president. And we're like, Okay, I

(26:01):
guess this is this the plot now everything. You're just like,
I know the shift because she says like, I'm going
to be a bad mom, and then she's like I'm
going to be the PTA president, and you're like, I
feel like these goals are at odds with But when
she says she's going to be a bad mom, she
doesn't really this is just like it's it's I mean,
we're not moms. It goes without saying. But I was like, Okay,

(26:24):
she says I want to be a bad mom, but
I think that I mean, what she's actually saying is
I want to be a mom and my own person.
But like, why can't I just say that, Like I
know that that's not as punchy, but it's confusing for
her to keep saying I want to be a bad
parent when what what she means something like it still
is very clear that she like they all love their
children very much, but they're flawed people. So like that's fine,

(26:47):
you know, I don't get it. I mean, I get it,
but I don't like it. Like I want to be
a mom who doesn't have to live up to such
rigid expectations and high standards. That are placed upon me
by society and the patriarchy. That doesn't fit in onto
a movie poster. But bad moms, when you say when

(27:08):
you say society and patriarchy, I think you mean Christina Apple.
Oh right, I'm so sorry. It was actually her. This
is all happening, So that's why we have to defeat
her in the election question mark unclear, unclear. It also
seems like she doesn't like, logistically, does Mila Kunas have
the bandwidth for this? Sure? Whole thing is like I

(27:30):
don't have bandwidth for anything. And then she's like she's
already too busy. The goal is she's like, I'm her.
She says she don't think she means this, but she's like,
I'm going to be a worse parent because I am
too bogged down with the expectations for work and parenthood
and all this other stuff. But then the focus shifts
and she's like, I actually want to take on an
additional responsibility to prove something too that I don't know

(27:55):
what it is, right, Okay, okay, just making sure at
what's happening is we don't make sense. Um. So, now
that she's running for pt president, she throws a meet
the candidate party that no one shows up to it first,
but then people start to arrive because they've got free

(28:16):
wine and it turns into this wild party. And then
Jesse shows up at the end as it's winding down,
and then they have a little kiss and a little
and they have a little sex and we're like yeah.
And then there's another scene where Amy's husband is back

(28:37):
again and they go to a couple's counseling with Wanda
Sykes again her talents are wildly underused. Yeah, I had
just watched, and this is like really embarrassing. I just
watched as a joke. We were doing her on Zeitgeist
Movie Club, which we've already done in this show, and um,

(28:59):
listeners are will know we don't love it. We don't
love it. Um, But I watched. So I watched Jecksy
instead as a joke that Adam Divine movie. It's really bad,
and Wanda Sikes is also inevitably in that movie being
wildly underused. And so I was like, just two days
in a row of seeing Wanda pikes enormous talent just wasted.

(29:23):
I just I just hope that she's just like they
offered me so much money that I could not say, no,
I can't imagine that's true. Though it wasn't that big
of a budget. It was only what I was twenty
one million of the dollars. Oh fingers crossed hope, so
let's headcanon. But yeah, she's very under You're just like,

(29:45):
this is a waste of Wanda Sikes. But I'm glad
she's there. Um, but she's like, wow, you guys should
just get a divorce, which is like, we know. It's like, uh,
this is all to say that we're reaching the low
point of the movie. Amy's marriage is crumbling. She gets
fired from her job that she has not been showing
up to and she's like, why are you firing me? Sure,

(30:08):
I've skipped work for the past week in a row,
but like, I don't get it. And then they're like
our avocado toast is dry and there oh god that
whole Yeah, so it's something. It's not her fault that
she didn't show up to work, it's Millennial's fault. What

(30:30):
And then to top it all off, um Gwendolen has
planted weed and Amy's daughter's locker and gets her kicked
off the soccer team. So everything's just crumbling in Amy's world,
and her daughter gets really mad at her and calls herselfish,
and then she's like, I'm gonna go stay with dad.
So things have fallen apart. So it's the night of

(30:51):
the p t A election. Amy eventually shows up late
because she's always late, that sort of thing. She's not
like the other girls, and she gives this speech where
she's like, hey, most of us are bad moms and
that's okay because being a mom is really hard. Vote
for me, and everyone's like whoo. And she wins the election.

(31:15):
Then there's like a little bit of a reconciliation between
her and Gwendolen, her kids come back, she gets rehird
at work. The movie takes a very long time to end.
I was like kind of like, did you feel that
as well? We were just like the writing gets kind
of scattered in the second act, and then they still
managed to tie up every kind of random storyline they

(31:38):
had set up in the very long second act, but
it takes a while where they're like, Okay, there's a
climactic third act scene which is like the third act
he is, I don't even really mean this as a
bad thing, but you know, she goes up, she says
the title of the movie. She says the statement of
the movie, and everyone's like, woo who you win the
big game. But then it's like seeing where you find
out what happened with her and her kids, seeing you

(32:00):
find out what happened with the widow scene where you
resolved Christina applicate thing, scene where Katherine Han's character gets resolution.
You didn't realize that you were supposed to want. There's
just like there's like five Dano mont scenes that you're
just like, all right, listen, I don't know, I don't
like this movie very much. And then yeah, that's pretty
much it. And then we get this kind of like

(32:23):
not post credits, but like as the credits are rolling,
we get all of the the actors in the movie
just them with their moms in real life having conversations,
and we're like, oh, this is more endearing than the
entire movie. I was saying this before we started recording.
Katherine Hans mom is funnier than the whole movie. Katherine

(32:44):
kept watching the scenes with Catherine Han and her mom
and Jada Pinkett Smith and her mom were so delightful.
I also think that Jada gets more screen time during
the credits than she does in the movie. I found
Kristen Bell's mom to be a little threatening. Um, it
was just like, something about Kristen Bell's mom is not

(33:05):
rubbing me the right way. Mela Kunas's mom seems like
a delight saying for Christine and Apple Game. That's my
review of Everyone's mom. Something about Kristen Kristen Bell's mom
has a bit of a sinister energy. Can't quite place it.
Sure I see that. Yeah, well, let's take another quick
break and then we'll come back and really do a

(33:27):
deep dive and we're back. So we've been chatting a
little bit already throughout the recap of things that have
you know, bugged us. I think I just wanna start
out the official discussion by saying, um, like, I can

(33:50):
see why this movie would resonate with people, especially moms,
because it does a little bit to recognize how difficult
it is to be a mom, how mothers are often underappreciated, overworked,
how they how they often have to do a lot
of the household and emotional labor to keep a family going.
And this movie is about a group of women who

(34:11):
are just fed up with those expectations. That are placed
upon them to be perfect moms, and then they say
fuck it to those expectations. Absolutely, Like I, I really
do appreciate that there is like and again, for movies
that have come out even remotely recently, this is the option, um,
a movie that expresses these like really commonly held frustrations.

(34:34):
So it's like, I'm glad this exists for that reason,
and and I'm glad that it like resident I'm interested
in your mom tweets yes, because yeah, this is the
only movie of its kind, for better and for worse. UM.
I'll read a few of the responses I got from moms,
and for our listeners who were moms, feel free to

(34:54):
reach out on social media and let us know how
much or how little this movie resonated with you, because
we are very curious. UM. But anyway, here are a
few takes gave me that sweet mom intel. They were
a bit mixed, but basically my tweet just asked, UM,
are you a mom? Have you seen Bad Moms? Did

(35:15):
it resonate with you thoughts? One of the first responses was, UM,
I am a mom and I loved it. I also
saw it in a theater full of moms and it
was an awesome bonding experience. Another one said, big fan,
I relate to Mila Kunis and Catherine han U. My
husband left me for another woman, and I had to
struggle to figure out how to keep my household to

(35:37):
float with two kids aged three and five at the
time while shedding my wife slash mother identity and figuring
out who I was. Another response was saying that she
is a mom. She did not finish the movie. It
did not resonate with her at all, So again mixed responses.
I guess it made a lot of what you hear.

(35:59):
And then I think around the original coverage of this movie,
because this movie was reviewed mixed as well. UM, and
I was happy to see that a lot of the
reviewers of this movie we're not just women, but also
we're mothers, UM. And it seems like moms are also
split on this. But I mean, even the responses that
you've shared, and thank you too to those people for

(36:20):
for sharing UM, seems to indicate that like this is
the first time they've seen those kinds of problems represented
in a big movie and in a way that isn't
And and I think we've we've talked about this with
a number of different identities that are held primarily by women.
Of like, it's nice to see a mom struggling in
a way that isn't framed as like this is the

(36:42):
most tragic thing in the world. This is like and
then it's just a sad because I feel like there's
a lot of movies about like sad moms, but this
movie is about bad moms my Yeah, And and I
could definitely see how seeing this movie in theaters with
other moms would be really cathartic and fun. Totally. I

(37:04):
just think we can do better, yes, for sure. And
that that's my thesis statement of the film, which is that, like,
it's a movie about being a mom and the pressures
of being a mother, and it's written and directed by
two sis hit men who are known for being cruel
to women. Yeah. Yeah, and I know that we we've

(37:28):
done research into what these guys were saying on the
press tour for this movie, which was like, look just
very like. My my suspicion going into researching the production
of this movie was that John Lucas and Scott More
wanted money, right, Okay, that is what a lot of

(37:51):
directors want, right, but by sixteen you can't necessarily just
make another hangover. You can't like broke comedy is really
not as much in demand, you know, and and so
it just seems kind of like it just seems like
someone reached out and was like John Lucas got more.
Women are so hot right now, so we need you,

(38:14):
like don't don't like get out of your comfort zone
or anything, but we need a movie with some ladies
and no, you can't kill them. Uh, and it just
it just feels like a studio note like it just yeah,
I have like I have some of these interviews, and
I like I want to play some clips from them
because they're so frustrating to hear these guys talk. It's

(38:36):
just I'm frustrated by them, Like they should have just
known better. They should have been like, well, we're not moms.
Why would we write a movie about moms? But what
if they done in their career that would indicate that
they would pass money on to a marginalized creator, Like
there's nothing that they've ever They got offered the money
and they took it, which also makes me very frustrated

(38:57):
at the you know, the studio who was like, hey, men,
write this movie about ma, Like yeah, yeah, I am.
I am at least mildly encouraged and appreciated by Like,
I guess that Kristen Bell had a lot to do
with this project existing as well from the research I've
done in the production. She was like, I think the

(39:18):
star attached that made the movie get made, and she
was the one that convinced me Lacoon has to do it.
And so there is like more women behind the scenes
of this movie then your average John Lucas got more movie.
But that's saying literally nothing. So well, let's hear a
little a few things they have to say, shall we know? Yes,

(39:40):
So this is an interview with the co writers and
co directors, John Lucas and Scott More about just sort
of their experience developing and directing Bad Moms. And here
are just a few choice quotes from them. I am
on a YouTube channel called film is Now Movie Bloopers

(40:03):
and Extras just to cite this source as properly as
I can. So here's the first clip. Uh yeah, well,
I think you know the movie. The genesis of the
movie was looking at our wives lives. We're both dads
and our wives or mom's and uh, seeing how intensive
world it was and how ripe it was for comedy,

(40:23):
and so we figured it was we've written our share
of exactly what you said, guys having a good time.
And we figured also we went to enough like mom
events that got a little off the rails that were like, oh,
this is like we're not actually entirely making this up.
This is something that actually happens, you know, the three
Martini play ate or whatever. It is not my wife,
by the way, she's a very well behaved but other

(40:44):
moms of course. But we just thought it was like
it was a world full of really intense social interactions
and it was just a world that was like sort
of hadn't been in our minds done to the to
the nth degree yet, and so we thought we could, Ah,
there it's very and I mean, and the quotes get
worse from this like it it just I really don't
like it. There. It's so I mean, it's like I

(41:06):
feel like that quote alone, just like you're like, yeah,
this was a studio note. They were asked to write
a movie about women. Uh, they asked their wives three
questions a piece and then just wrote the movie like
I and I really don't like this the like okay,
let me know if if I'm like getting off the
rails here. But I do feel like there is especially

(41:28):
in this genre, Like there's this repeated media narrative of
like women should be allowed to be raunchy too, and
like it just comes off a little like condescending, like
it's like, okay, well then like let them. And also
you don't need to write like there's just no I
hate I just there couldn't be two people I would

(41:49):
want behind a project about motherhood less men. I'll play
a couple more little clips from this, but like, so,
there's this monologue that Amy Melakuna's character gives in the
movie when she's talking to her son about how her
son needs to do his own homework, and she basically

(42:10):
she's like, you're entitled, which means mommy and daddy have
been spoiling you, and now you think the world owes
you something, but it doesn't. And if you don't learn
how to work hard, now you're going to grow up
to be another entitled white dude who thinks he's awesome
for no reason. And then you'll start a ska band
and you'll be mean too girls, and you'll grow a
mustache to look interesting. But you won't actually be interesting,

(42:31):
and I'm not okay with that, so please do your
own homework. So she's like talking about basically the directors
of this movie who are entitled and think they can
just do anything, but then they also like but then
they also do that thing where they make it sound
goofy and not like themselves enough that they just sort
of managed to slip out of it. They're like, like,

(42:51):
I feel like that's the same the same issue I
have with the way they wrote her husband, where um,
I agree with our listener that it's it's like there
is some visit ability and like a shitty husband that
cheats on their spouse with not a lot of guilt.
I mean, that's unfortunately a pretty common thing that happens.
But the way that they write the character makes it

(43:13):
seem like he's just not smart enough to be able
to be a loyal husband. It has nothing, It is
barely a reflection on his character, and and I feel
like that is a way that they let themselves and
other men off the hook by just writing a character
that really no one is going to see themselves in.
And we've had this discussion in different genres to where

(43:33):
it's like we've had discussions about like when a man
is and I guess trigger warning, but like when a
man assaults a woman in a movie, it's very often
by a character that is so brutally evil that no,
like no average person would recognize themselves in it, And
so then it just becomes like, well, what are you

(43:55):
supposed to take away from that? You know, and this
is a much less version of that, But I do
think it is like kind of a flavor of like
these guys are not actually writing. The one thing that
they could do and use their lift experience to do
is right a dad character that isn't so ridiculous, and

(44:15):
they can't even do that just without getting like to like, oh, well,
I'm not like this, this guy's dumb. Like it's like okay,
but like they just can't self examine. Also John Lucas
being like my wife though she would never misbehave, she
is perfectly behaved, and it's like, did you miss the

(44:39):
point of your own shitty movie? Like it sounds like
based on like, uh, there there was a piece I
came across from I was just like looking through some
of the coverage in in both directions, the pro and
con um from when this came out in and there
was a piece I found in late that I actually,

(45:01):
uh quite liked, and I thought it was someone who
like a writer named Alyssa Strauss who enjoyed the movie
but kind of had all of the same points that
we have about why it's like, well, this isn't really
She was like, it's a fun movie, but it's not
really like the mother's experience, whereas I just wanted to
share a quick passage from that that I think like

(45:23):
ties in a lot of things that we've been talking
about so far. Um, she says, in real life, a
harried mom like Amy seeking some relief would probably recognize
that her unhelpful husband and unrealistic boss are her main problems.
The annoying mom at school would be nothing more than
a pebble in her shoes, something that bothers her for
a moment but can easily be resolved. Personally speaking, I

(45:43):
know few moms who have been exhausted or wounded by
inter mommy tension. I asked other moms I know, including
those with office jobs and those who are their family's
primary caretaker, and they all felt the same. Moms are
not at war with one another. We concluded, and most
of us don't care about what parenting or employment decisions
other moms are making. We might become irritated with a
mom thinks she is better for making a particular decision,

(46:04):
But the crime there is hubris, not how they are
feeding their baby or how many extracurriculators their kid is
enrolled in, which I feel like is a big flaw
of this movie, where it's like the way the problems
that Melacuna's character chooses to address versus what she doesn't like. Yeah,
they make the villain another woman we don't know very

(46:26):
well as opposed to any system that being her job,
which is like even that like gets conflated because of
the shitty writing where it's like with her workplace, it
would be very i think smart and the most logical
choice to make it a workplace that is not welcoming

(46:46):
to mothers. It's not offering flexible scheduling and and that
should be a clear but they don't do that. They
make it like, oh, these millennials and their coffee beans
and their Game of Thrones, Like the problem is like
people who are five years younger than Mila Kunas. It's
not the fact that workplaces are unwilling to accommodate mothers

(47:08):
and maternity leave and stuff like that. Like, yeah, it
doesn't even come it barely comes up, so that is
like conflated. And then the clear issue of like her
husband is cheating on her, she wants to divorce her husband.
It finally gets resolved way later. But men are not
like obstacles in this movie the way that other women are. Well,

(47:32):
that brings me to perhaps another little clip even all that,
because it's like one of those media interviews where it says,
like John Lucas on why women should be allowed to
be raunchy. Even like the introduction to their clips is
pretty the movie doesn't really get into a lot of dating.
I mean consciously chose to like every time we felt
as guy writers ourselves injecting guy stuff in. We sort

(47:55):
of wanted to treat men in this movie a lot
like how women are generally treated in guy comedies, which
is sort of like love objects and a little bit
of comedy here and there, But we really want to
get it not about like the relationships, like the struggles
between moms and dads. This is a mom movie. This
is not a movie about the two things Okay, I mean,
I don't even disagree that that's like a fun inversion.

(48:16):
But then it's like that sentence continues with like, also,
I don't know what it's like to be a mom.
I didn't do a lot of research, and I don't
know what I'm fucking talking about. So the whole movie
comes off a bit weird. There. They're so lucky they
had like three talented leads who are mothers to make

(48:37):
this movie remotely convincing, truly, and the writing doesn't do
them justice of what they are capable of. Anyway. Um,
here's another clip, and this is Scott Moore talking now.
So so John may have said this, but we didn't
so much as write this script as listen to our

(48:58):
wives and the moms around us and write down they
were saying. And so really a lot of it is
just observing the moms around us and putting it into
a movie. And I have to say, you're talking about
sort of cutting loose. I know my wife would love
to cut loose every day, but there's so much responsibility
placed on her that eventually she gets to the today
and it's like midnight and she's got to go to bed,
and it's that frustration of not getting to do anything

(49:18):
that she wants all day, and so this movie is
what if she got to just like do whatever the
hell she wanted. Can we start like a go fund
me for these wives? They're like, we need to get
them out of there. There. The way they talk about
their wives is literally like their possessions, Like my, my
wife would love to cut loose, but unfortunately I'm making

(49:40):
a ton of money like off of her experiences. So
I can't really like do much to contribute because I'm
writing bad moms, Like you're just like do you hear
your do you hear yourself? So and then I have
one last clip to share I know it's and then
and then I'm done. I'm promised. I think there are

(50:00):
less pressures and less expectations on fathers. It seems like
if you show up at an occasional soccer game, you're
a hero for being there. But moms sort of have
to be at every soccer game and make sure they
brought the treats and make sure the kids around time,
make sure they have all the gear and that they
have the shin pads. And there's just a lot that
I feel like our society has placed a lot more
pressure on moms to be perfect that dad's uh for

(50:24):
right or wrong, probably for wrong. Are just expected to
be at work and occasionally show up, but moms are
expected to do everything. I personally feel like I get
a lot more applaudits for doing very little, and my
wife does a lot and doesn't get very little and
I do very little consciously. Uh no, but I think
there's I think that's we can get into a really
deep philosophical conversation to why it is. But whatever, whatever

(50:45):
it cause you want to point to it, it is
reality that moms are held to a far higher stand
and it's not there. Yeah, okay, but what have you done?
But what have you done? But what have you done?
You know? They just they're like, um, I think I've
heard of this thing called the patriarchy. Um I'm not
really sure what it does or who it is, but

(51:06):
it seems really shitty. I would be so pissed if
that were me. So I guess what I'm saying is, wow,
really sucks. And by these are the duface is who
tried to write like an empowering mom movie. Yeah they

(51:27):
did not succeed. Um that then that's all I have
to say about it. They just did not succeed there.
I really hope that in a couple of years we
like look back on this episode when eight I would
love around Like it's not don't misunderstand us. We would
love a raunchy comedy starring moms written by anyone else there,

(51:50):
written by like someone with experience, someone who has at
least researched like it just there couldn't be a more cynical,
like Hollywood choice for someone to be in charge of
this movie. It just shows a complete distrust in lit.
I mean, and having Annie Mamalo there really was like
a knife to the gut for me of like you

(52:11):
have cast someone in a shitty tiny roll of someone
who could be doing circles around. It's just ridiculous. Yeah,
and and especially because like to have these two men
write this movie about motherhood and it's like them being like,
but like, you know, it's it's bad mums. It's mums.

(52:33):
Like what if mums could be bad and runchy and
drunk and have sex and like all this stuff, And
it's like, great, Yeah, that would be cool to see.
That would be a subversion of what we normally see
on screen. But like again, it always it just comes
down to, like, these are not the people to tell
this story, because these are guys whose comedy relies almost

(52:55):
entirely on punching down and writing dialogue. In a way,
it like I really don't like women. It's very like
Catherine Hans character, the way that she's always like, oh
my cooter, my couch, my pussy. You're like, that's how
fifty year old men talk about women. That is not
how women talk about themselves, Like, unless there's something I'm missing,

(53:18):
but like, I've never known any one of my generation
or my mom's that has spoken of themselves in that way.
And my and that's not to say that my mom
and her friends don't talk about themselves in gross ways.
They do, but not, but they don't talk about them
So like I feel like there is this weird Sometimes
there are semi good monologues that I theorize were rewritten

(53:44):
later on because they're just like this is too. Like
Melacunas will occasionally have a good small monologue that is, yes,
extremely on the nose, but at least it's making a
competent point, like when she's at the bar and she's like,
there's so much pressure on this blah blah blah blah,
like and you're just like, okay, yes, I agree with this. Cool. Nice.
But then it's like, for the most part, it's moms
talking to each other the way their husbands talk about

(54:07):
them and not how they talk about themselves because of
who's writing the movie and so so, And I just
want to clarify something. I want to clarify what we mean.
I don't think that men should avoid writing movies about
women or avoid writing female driven stories. I think oftentimes

(54:31):
it's awesome when men want to write compelling female characters.
Like I have a lot of students in my online
screenwriting classes. Wow, another plug. Incredible. It can be done
really well, Like, it can be done for well as
long as you're you know, doing it with empathy and
you're informed, Like that is the key. And these writers

(54:52):
have a very trackable history of that not being the case. Yeah,
Like there's a way to do it respond posibly, and
there's a way to do it not responsibly. And like again,
like the students in my class, if I'm not mistaken,
every single one of them is writing a screenplay with
a female protagonists. Like they are. I know they like

(55:12):
they want to be contributing to inclusivity, and that's awesome
and we encourage that. But yes, it's it's a matter
of like these specific filmmakers is who we are railing
against John Lucas and Scott More. They have this terrible
track record, and I think I'm also like we just
came off of that Hangover episode that we did, I mean,

(55:33):
on the major very like we have very fresh memories
of how bad these writers are at writing women. And
I think that it also speaks to I mean, if
you're writing I mean, I think it's wonderful that like
where I mean as writers opening up more inclusivity. But
it's like women should be allowed to the front of
the line on this story for sure, and and it's

(55:55):
and it's i think another example of like the jilliant
time that and all male uh screenwriting duo gets a
million chances to do something well and never does it well,
and here we are talking about it right like they
don't deserve another chance. That's what I'm saying, they don't.

(56:16):
And the other like another thing I think is worth
talking about is that like this isn't to say that
people can't change, and like writers can't grow over time,
and that like people don't deserve redemption because like a
lot of Hollywood screenwriters should be trying to change and
should be growing and should be trying to course correct.

(56:38):
But and I like, you know, I do admire that
when people do put in the effort, but still like
these guys, but it's not these guys. Yeah, they don't
qualify for that conversation. It's not these guys. I just
am insulted by them trying to write this like female
driven story that I think is attempting to be empowering
for moms, but it's just like falls flat on its faith.

(57:02):
And if that's true, I think that that interview with
them is for me, that interview is the nail in
the coffin of like this was a very cut and
dry cash grab. The story does not mean anything to them.
They like reference their wives as if it's like the
nineteen fifties like that. I don't think that this. I mean,
it's very hard to believe that they went into this

(57:25):
project more wanting to make women feel seen than they
did just want millions of dollars. Right, Yes, that's just
one of the examples of how to write a female
driven story. Irresponsibly and not doing it responsibly, which is
what we are encouraging people to do. You know, if
you're a man who wants to write stories about women

(57:48):
and that include women, great, please do that. Just do
your fucking homework. That's doing it. Just do your homework
and and ask yourself, you know, like, who else do
I need to include in this process in order to
make it an authentic story? For sure? I d k
my BF of Jill, remember that, Oh my gosh, you

(58:10):
is your best friend, sush mom, my gildfriend. I've truly
in quarantine. I think I think I've told you this
a little bit. So I like digitized all my family's
home tapes and there's like sixty hours of them, and
so I feel like I've been with them NonStop. And
the way my mom narrates things is just like I'm
going to edit this thing down and she's gonna win

(58:32):
an Oscar for cinematography. Her slow zooms and her omniscient
narration is unmatched, incredible. I've seen a few of the
little clips you've posted on Instagram. There's I'm currently getting
through this really long video of my parents on their
sixth anniversary. My mom like puts her wedding dress on,

(58:54):
and my dad is like, this is weird. And then
my Mom's like, it's actually fun. And I'm like, now,
this is what we need in a movie. Whatever is
going on here? Where is bad Jill, bad Chills? We
need bad bad Jill's bad Jill and bad Lorie. I
would watch that movie. That would be so fun. And

(59:16):
then and then Jada Pinkett Smith would be also be
there and actually get to have a line this time. Yes, yes,
my mom not to brag, but my mom would let
Jada Pinkett Smith talk. In fact, she would only my
mom would not talk at all. She's like, Jada, you
have the floor, I know. And then my mom would
go around talking about, like telling everyone for the rest
of her life how Jada Pinket Smith is her best

(59:37):
friend in the world. It would be a whole thing. Oh,
moms are great, if only they had a better movie
to watch. It's true. Um, okay, here are some things
that I didn't hate about the movie. Um and again,
like I just I know, there's a lot to like
about this. There is some small attempt, even if it's

(59:57):
by the wrong people, to to explore certain aspects of
being a mom. It tries, it does try, So I
do want to include some things that I like. I
do enjoy that between Amy's two children, more focus is
given on the mother daughter relationship than the mother's son

(01:00:19):
relationship with the whole like soccer storyline, and they go
to the spa and they bond at the spa and
they have a nice little time. Um. I enjoyed that.
And then what little we do see with Amy's son
is her basically saying like, don't grow up to be
an entitled white guy. And because she's like, you need

(01:00:40):
to do your own homework, you need to cook your
own breakfast, he teaches himself how to cook, so you
see makes time. So you see a boy learning a
domestic skill, which I feel like you almost never see
in a movie. And he's not mocked for it either,
which I feel would have been another easy writing trust
that they didn't go with. I like for sure too.

(01:01:01):
I liked I liked that her daughter was also on
a sports team, and that the main tension with the daughter.
I mean, there was mother daughter stuff, but it was
also like, my daughter really wants to be on this
sports team. So they didn't relegate the daughter to like
traditional you know stuff there either she's an act right,
they also do she takes Mandarin classes and then says

(01:01:24):
some racist stuff about Mandarin and then also and then
Milo Cunas also says, wow, that's a little racist, and
you're like, this is not a funny joke for this year,
Like you know, that's in response to um her daughter
like worrying about whether or not she's going to be
able to get into an Ivy League school, and she's like, yeah,
they they're rejecting Asians these days. And then Mila Kunas

(01:01:47):
is like, oh, that's racist. But it's like, yeah, that's
another like having it both waysy and as that you're
decided that's not that doesn't if you just like that's
such just another like dumbass like directors of the Hangover thing,
they're like, well, if we say it's racist, you're just like, no,
that's not how that works. Yeah. I won't go through

(01:02:09):
my whole list, but there's a lot of like punching down. Yeah,
I mean, substantially less than you would expect from a
movie from these guys, but still bad. But it's still
present for sure. Some other stuff I did, like I
actually really enjoyed although I did not think it needed
to be there, but since it is there and we
have to talk about it, I liked the romantic subplot

(01:02:32):
between Amy and Jesse. If it had to be there,
they could have done a lot worse. They could have
done worse. And the reason I like it is that
he treats her far better than Certainly we've seen these
writers and directors having male characters treat women. I know,
I know, but that it's also like I like that.
It would have been worse if he treated her badly, obviously,

(01:02:53):
but then I'm also like, these guys went out of
their way to treat a male character kindly that they
would never have done for a female character. That's true
in the same position, but I am glad. I mean,
I liked, I liked. I know nothing about him, but
he's nice. He has for consent. There's like he's doing
a bare minimum on a very level. That's true. Yeah,

(01:03:15):
he he asks if she's okay when he learns about
like her husband having just cheated on her. He he
doesn't neg her. Right, We're mostly saying things that he
doesn't do it as opposed to think he does I
which just like speaks to the sad state of the
way women are treated, especially in like romantic context, because

(01:03:36):
we've so we're so accustomed to seeing men being so
shitty to women and like negging them and stalking them
and wearing them down and surprise kissing them. In this movie,
she surprised kisses him, which you know was also not
good good but different different. Um. He compliments her on

(01:03:56):
her parenting skills. You know, again, this is just bare
minimum the decent thing to do. But because we're so
conditioned to see men treating women terribly, we're like, wow,
give this man a medal. They also they objectify men
far more than they do women in the movie to

(01:04:19):
the extent it is often a joke where like when
we meet Jesse, he's introduced in this like slow mo
gazy shot that's like you know, panning up his body
um to you know, draw the audience's attention to the
fact that this is the guy that the moms think
is hot. There's the like movie, the fake movie that
they watch in the movie theater where like this man

(01:04:40):
is like in space with this woman. He's like love
is stronger than space, and he like rips his shirt
exposing his chest and stuff. So it's like okay, yeah,
I mean and again this movie, I mean, like every
movie and this kind of very bloated genre, it can't

(01:05:00):
possibly happen if everyone in the movie isn't pretty well off. Absolutely,
and by extension, there's very little diversity in the movie
at all. You just see a lot of different kinds
of rich white moms. Yes, this is a hundred percent
of movie about like middle class two upper middle class

(01:05:21):
white women. I mean Amy's house, Yes, I would say that,
like I mean, like Carla is more like middle class,
but like, yeah, Amy, it seems quite well to do.
And this is something that we see in media where
moms are allowed to be boozy and like distant and
irresponsible as long as they are financially stable white women,

(01:05:44):
because that when that's the case, it's funny, it's a joke,
it's hilarious. But like, if you're a black mom or
a low income mom and you like step out of
line as a mother for one second, there's a million
other ways that you're going to be stigmatized and treated
poorly totally. And it's not to like lessen you know,
it's like it there is pressure on the bad moms,

(01:06:06):
but it's like there's really no like indication that the
writers are aware that like this is on the low
end of difficult, you know. Also, like another thing the
movie does again it makes the ever so slightest attempt
to try to hold men more accountable, to be good fathers,

(01:06:30):
but which is like something a movie could and should do,
Like I would like to see more movies with those themes,
but like it's really glossed over. There's just not enough
of an attempt to actually hold men accountable. Like the
closest thing we get, I think, is that little through
line with Kiki's husband, Kent, who we see him being

(01:06:52):
really controlling and border line may be abuse of two Kiki,
And then she has a cathartic moment at the end
where she yells at him, and that's like the only
thing we know about her, And it's also just like
that's the lowest level of resolution you can possibly get
for the very little we know about this character. Is

(01:07:13):
like she told off her husband one time to go
to a PTA meeting, Like that's like but then and
then like the scene we get after that is like
I don't know his behavior has change and he's like,
oh mom, I'm so sorry. I forgot the backpack. I'll
go back and get it. And meanwhile she's like, there's
a weird the way Again, these directors, like their visual

(01:07:34):
language that they use to indicate certain things is really
off because like in this scene, Kristen Belle is wearing makeup,
and before she hadn't been wearing makeup. So now that
she's a middle part and then at the end she
doesn't have a middle part. Love this love this arc
for her, Like, now that she's in control of her life,

(01:07:55):
she she's makeup. Now she's wearing his makeup. Now there, Yeah,
you're like, sure, great, and like I like make up
just as much as the next person. But like these
filmmakers are like, oh well, um, makeup equals confidence, right,

(01:08:15):
And I feel like that's just such an oversimplified male
understanding of being a woman. And it's like, who let
you make this movie? Oh? I mean who wouldn't let them?
Who with influence and power would not let them make
this movie? Unfortunately? Um, so yeah, I mean moms deserve

(01:08:37):
I'm glad that this this is this is I feel
like kind of a classic example of like a tiny
step in the right direction. So that's good, but it's
also infuriating to be like, wow, progress or is slow,
isn't it? But yeah, I don't know. I I personally
blame this all on Christie to applicate, it's actually been

(01:09:01):
her fault all along. She invented patriarchy and if she
hadn't done that, none of this would be happening. I
think my final thoughts are just that like, this is
unfortunately because this is like one of the only examples
of a like female mom driven narrative that is also
like a romp, because there's other there's a few other

(01:09:23):
like movies that explore motherhood that came around out around
this time. And I mean there's there's narratives about this
all throughout film history, but like some more recent ones
were things like Twenty Century Women, Tully, the Bubba Duck.
You know, you can't beat the Babba Duck from a
psychon the Babba Duck. But these and Queer Icon the

(01:09:43):
Babba Duck absolutely true, but they these aren't romps. So
the fact that like kind of the one example of
like a mainstream broad comedy mom romp is a movie
made by people who don't know what it is firsthand
to be a mom is just such a frustrating misstep.
And that doesn't mean like, if you like this movie,

(01:10:04):
I can see why. There are some things about it
to take away that it would be very relatable and
that that would resonate with moms. But I long for
the day that we get moms writing mom movies and
directing mom movies because I think that they will resonate
with moms even more. Believe it or not, I wholeheartedly agree.

(01:10:30):
But it does pass the Vactel test. So there's a
fair amount affair amount. There are whole scenes where they're
just talking about Dick, but there's also whole scenes where
they're not that's true. Sometimes they're talking about their couiters.
Sometimes they're talking about their sugars. The most feminist thing
that we do, we do it all the time. I

(01:10:51):
think it is funny that you're just like, yeah, they're
talking about their vaginas. So it like it passes the
Vactel test, but I don't want it to because of
the people who are writing deadlines. But it does. It
does pass. It does pretty handle. It does, and I
think it might not pass the reverse Spectel tests. I
don't think we would see men interacting really at all

(01:11:14):
except which is kind of nice. And it's kind of nice.
I think there's one. There's a few exchanges where Amy's
husband and son just have like a quick exchange. But
other than that, yeah, I think it is not men
talking to each other really at all. So hey, so
there's that thankful for small miracles. What would you rate

(01:11:38):
this movie on our nipples scale? Uh, you know, from
zero to five nipples based on how well you feel
it portray women in a movie. I will give it
to I was feeling the same way because, and again,
I want there to be much more representation of moms

(01:12:00):
from all walks of life, not just rich white women,
the whole spectrum of people if they are parents. I
want to see that. We don't really get much of
it at all, and when we do see it, it
is very limited the types of moms we are allowed
to see on screen. I've never seen any mom like

(01:12:21):
my mom, Lorie. I've never seen anything remotely resembling my
mom on screen, which means I need to write a
movie about my mom. Yeah, I I agree. I I
kind of like and just based on the way that
we've had to tiptoe around ourselves kind of throughout the

(01:12:42):
discussion of this movie because that's the only movie of
its kind. I kind of I kind of resent a
little bit that we have to you know, keep you
like but it's okay, the movie's okay, because it's just
like that's just such a clear indicator that there are
not enough options in this genre. It is the only option.
I don't think it's a good movie. I'm glad that

(01:13:03):
it portrays a few different types of moms in a
very specific area of the world, and not that every
movie needs to represent everything, but it's like, this is
a movie written by people who don't know how to
write female characters. It just this movie just feels like
so focused, grouped, and I'm glad that there are elements
of it where moms feel seen, but it's I mean,

(01:13:25):
it's like it's so frustrating that it's like, oh, we
have to like give us movie points because it has
mom representations. But then it's like, but it's not a
good movie, Like moms deserve a good, thoughtful movie that
can still be raunchy and funny, but like just let
someone who knows what they're talking about right it and sorry,
And that's the police coming to arrest John Lucas and

(01:13:48):
Scott Moore. Yeah, I live in their neighborhood. Uh no,
but yeah. And then then just like like we talked
about just how how intensely like whitewashed um this movie,
and there's genre is to the extent where you can
have Jada Pinkett Smith in the movie and not give
her a line like outside of like yes, Christina Applegate.

(01:14:09):
Just I don't know. I feel like there's a lot
of broad stereotypes that these guys are known for perpetuating
for all genders races. They only know how to write
in stereotypes, and that doesn't really service what I feel
like is needed in the terms of portraying moms in
a cool and funny way. I feel so, I don't know.

(01:14:31):
For now, watch TV instead. Two nipples, one to Catherine
Hahn and one to Jada Pinkett Smith. Nice, I'm going
to give one to wand to Sykes, and one to Vertigo,
dog feminist, very good dog, the best character in the film. Truly,

(01:14:54):
I felt like I have Vertigo this whole movie. Well,
there you have it. Bad Moms. Happy Mother's Day to
all the bad moms, the good moms, the whole, the
whole beautiful spectrum of moms. We love you all and
thank you for what you do. And yeah, and then
just for everybody, we hope you're doing well. You hope

(01:15:15):
we ever stand safe? Are What a time to be alive?
Truly right? And then I guess we should say word
we can be. You can find us on Twitter and
Instagram at becktel Cast for starters. For starters, you can
subscribe to our Patreon a k a. Matreon if you
have not already and if you are able the fun time,

(01:15:38):
it's a fun time. It's May. So it's my birthday
months we're doing fun, which we're doing some fun. We're
doing um Sean of the Dead and Monty Python and
The Holy Grail. Just so much feminism, just who is
the kind of these films that I'm very excited. Unfortunately,
they are some of my favorite movies and that's my

(01:16:01):
cross to bear. Those are my picks for my birthday
May Treon Treon. But we've been we've been really I
think cranking out the hits over in the Matreon recently.
So yeah, head over there during the community have some
fun with us. You can get to get some merch
at t public dot com, slash the Bechdel Cast. They're
selling masks now. We're selling masks now. So that's if

(01:16:25):
I mean, we all need one one another now from
Molena mask. Get a Molena mask. You know, go cucku um.
And if you are interested in taking my online screenwriting class,
you can go to Caitlin Durante dot com slash classes

(01:16:46):
for more information, or feel free to just tweet at
me at Caitlin Durante uh and let me know that
you're interested. And with that, have a happy Mother's Day
or happy be bad moms Day, very bad Mom's Christmas,
Bye Bye's Day. In a way, it is just bad

(01:17:08):
Mom's Christmas. Okay, that's true. Bye bye