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April 25, 2024 98 mins

On this episode, Caitlin, Jamie, and special guest Clarkisha Kent are getting their hair done and chatting about Beauty Shop!

Follow Clarkisha on Instagram at @clarkishakent and on Twitter at @IWriteAllDay_ 


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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:01):
On the Bechdel Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism? It's a patriarchy, zeph and
vest start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hey, Caitlin, do you want this donut? By the way,
I don't respect women.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
I mean, yes, I want a donut, but not from
someone who doesn't. Oh wait, what does she say? I
forget what Vanessa says in that me.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Oh my god, I read it. I donate donuts with
boys who exploit women. This is what she says. Yeah,
so that's my response to you, and the world shook
on its axis in that moment when that sentence was
written down. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is
Jamie Loftis, my.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Name is Caitlin Dronte, and this is our show where
we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the
Bechdel test simply as a jumping off point to initiate
larger conversations about representation. Jamie, what is the Bechdel Test?

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Well, I can tell you please, just as we have
for many years, so many the bechel test is a
media metric originally created by where cartoonist Alison Bechtel and
her amazing collection likes to Watch out for. It is
often called the Bechdel Wallace test because it was co
created with her friend Liz Wallace. Lots of versions of

this test. It was originally created as a bit, but
it has sort of become a very prominent media metric.
We're going to be talking about a lot of media
metrics today. The version of the Bechdel test that we
use requires that there be two characters of a marginalized
gender with names who speak to each other about something
other than a man for more than two lines of dialogue,

and it should be plot relevant. Nothing like Hi, do
you want a cappuccino? No, although in this movie that
can be plot relevant. It depends.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
It's sort of important to the story.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
What is the obscenity judge quote that I can never remember?
I know it when I see it?

Speaker 3 (02:05):
Oh about porn? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Yes, anyways, let's move let's move forward.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yes, So today we have such an exciting guest. We're
so happy to finally have her on the show. She's
a Nigerian American writer, culture critic, former columnist, and author
of the book Fat Off Fat on a Big Bitch Manifesto.
You've seen a writing featured in outlets like Entertainment Weekly, Essence,
Glamdam Paper, b Et, huff Post, MTV News, The Route,

and many many more. She's also the creator and co
creator of a number of different media tests that we're
also going to talk about. It's Clarkisha Kent. Well, Oh.

Speaker 4 (02:46):
Y'all doing good?

Speaker 2 (02:48):
How are you?

Speaker 4 (02:49):
I am good? I'm good. It's a long Monday.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yes, it truly is. It's raining very heavily in La
right now, and I feel like the loud rain noises
are going to pick up on my microphone.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
It's an ASMR episode. You know, we're gonna make do Carcasia.
We're so excited to have you on the show. We've
talked about the Kent Test on the show before and
you've just been like, I guess we have been hoping
to talk with forever. So thank you for being here, Thank.

Speaker 4 (03:16):
You for having me. I really appreciate it. I'm very excited.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, we're excited to have you. And yeah, tell us
more about the Kent test and then the test that
you co created with Sydney skuy G The Kelly and
kat test.

Speaker 4 (03:31):
Yeah, so can test is you know straightforward.

Speaker 5 (03:33):
I would say it's a spiritual sister to the bagdel test,
like it's aiming for the same thing, right, Like, hey,
you I.

Speaker 4 (03:41):
Hate women.

Speaker 5 (03:43):
Very obvious, but you know I like to say that
Americans like obvious things fed back to them. Right, So
you can say, for example, racism is bad, and black
people in healthcare and suffer a lot because racism is bad,
They won't believe you to come back. We just feeds
the paper to say, hey, we interviewed like twenty black
people and they said racism is bad and healthcare. You

know you need something on paper an the headline. Yeah,
I use something on paper, right, So for me, that's
what it was like. We know that media hates women,
they treat us poorly, et cetera, et cetera, Right, but
like when you don't have it on paper, it's easier
for folks to gats like you.

Speaker 4 (04:21):
So that's what the contest was kind of born out of. Right.

Speaker 5 (04:25):
So it was like specifically, you know, I wanted to
focus on black women for first and foremost, but also
tangentially women of color, right, So.

Speaker 4 (04:34):
I was like, hey, our repen media is very terrible.

Speaker 5 (04:37):
And while I'm very iffy, like I wrote my book about,
you know, representation matters because we're you know, we're in
twenty twenty four now, We're not in like Obama.

Speaker 4 (04:46):
Era resentation of politics.

Speaker 5 (04:48):
Right, It's still one of those things where, like for better,
for worse, media will very much influence a public perception
of certain people, certain groups, et cetera. Right, So that's
what the cantest is for. I was like, hey, they
portray us poorly. This happened actually very far reaching consequences
for us. So I was like, I'm gonna get this
on paper and I'm gonna walk through different pieces. I'm

gonna make it accessible so that other people can use
it right beyond me, right, and be like, hey, no,
I watched this thing.

Speaker 4 (05:15):
Even though it's my favorite movie.

Speaker 5 (05:16):
I noticed like they treated this black female character really
bad and it loved the bad taste in my mouth.
But I didn't know how to say until you know, again,
I've had this piece of paper in front of me.
So the test actually was born out of what happened
to Nicobahari and Sleepy Hollow.

Speaker 3 (05:32):
Oh yes, we've talked about that on the episode we
did on Miss genteenth. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (05:38):

Speaker 5 (05:38):
Actually, the especially the very last practeria on the test
talks about it in terms of like turning a black
female character into a sacrifice in a way that honestly
on characteristic of them. Like, yeah, it was very ugly,
and like after that happened, I was like, all right, I'm.

Speaker 4 (05:54):
Gonna I'm gonna put this on paper. So that's kind
of what happened.

Speaker 5 (05:58):
Obviously, you know, when we get into you like the
medium will look at today we can go over the
requirements of the tests. But you know who was born
out of and for the Killing Cat Test again spiritual
cousin to the Can Test. I created with Sydney Skatje,
who's a prominent fat the British activist.

Speaker 4 (06:16):
I consider them a great friend. It's fucking funny too.

Speaker 5 (06:18):
So the test was born out of once again very
poor presentation for fat people media. Once again focusing on women,
but you know also other marginalized genders.

Speaker 4 (06:30):
In this case, we did want to.

Speaker 5 (06:32):
Include white women because the fat rep for them is
also not great. Now again my focus is going to
be you know, black women are women of color, but
I'm gonna include that too because some of the media
is very ugly, especially if y'all remember because we liked
the same age early two thousands media very bad, very bad,

very bad for us, very bad.

Speaker 4 (06:56):
It was very bad.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
The shallow how era, yeah, is very very dark.

Speaker 3 (07:03):

Speaker 2 (07:03):

Speaker 5 (07:04):
The name points to specifically more recent fat characters, which
would be like Kelly Fort Insecure and Cap from Euphoria. Yeah,
a lot of it was there, a similar similar overlap
to the Kent tests, but like also like hyper specific
stuff that goes into you know, styling for fat characters,
which is really important to close it. They put us
in right, Yeah, our family dynamics, our relationships, very particular

tropes too, so we tried to go into a little
more detail. But yeah, that was born last year, like
I want to say, right before that, my book came out,
so that this was fun, It was fun nice.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
And what is the public response to both of the tests, Bennet?
It seems I mean, like I know that the second
test is newer, but the Kent test I feel like
it's just like a part of film discussion now, like
it does make a marked difference.

Speaker 5 (07:53):
Yeah, it because it came out in twenty eighteen, which
was the year Black Fans There came out. So that
was actually the movie I graded on it and the
second with Widows.

Speaker 4 (08:03):
Both guys loved that.

Speaker 5 (08:05):
I loved that for me, right, and you know, it's
definitely evolved because I remember I published it in conjunction
with my Quality for Her Who's run By I think
Claramony at the time, and you know, it was part
of a larger package, right, but the testa so just
kind of took on a life of its own. It's
just like, okay, well I'm the star here, I'm Beyonce

of this thing, so.

Speaker 4 (08:27):
I'm out of here.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
But just god took off.

Speaker 5 (08:29):
So it also came out on International Women's Day, so
I think that helped to like with the black profile.
So since then, like you said, it is out there.
You know, people talk about it, you know, shows like this.
I've seen it come up in different like articles, journals,
I see it pop up in people's dissertations, you know,

and like you know, like high school, high school, middle school,
you know, classrooms will also like college classrooms, like very
sophisticated people drawing theory alongside the test. So that's been
definitely interesting, very humbling. So I'm just like, wow, they
got pretty far.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
So that's incredible.

Speaker 5 (09:11):
Yeah, I'm happy about that because we have to give
people the tools to do better. And that was also
an important part of the test too, because you know,
I know that people are like, you give it numbers
instead of like a past failed thing. I'm like, yeah,
because it's not about past fail It's about I mean,
if you fail, then we obviously still got talked.

Speaker 4 (09:31):
Right, But it's not about that.

Speaker 5 (09:33):
It's about the fact that, like, you need to notice
your own biases, right, Like I got my own right.
Everybody has them, and I think refusing to name them
makes it worse, you know, it makes it worse less
and fester. So that's what the test was about, Like, yeah,
you can have all the goodwill, you.

Speaker 4 (09:50):
Can have all the great intentions, like trying to make.

Speaker 5 (09:54):
What diverse characters I put in quotations for obvious reasons, Right,
there was characters, But like if I go watch them
and they're like some of the worst stereotypical characters anyone
can come up with, then your attention doesn't really mean anything, right.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
Right, exactly. Yeah, inclusion doesn't automatically mean that it's good inclusion.
It's still a matter of like making sure that it's
meaningful and handled responsibly. That's something I really appreciate about
the Kent Test is how thorough it is and how
many different criteria you use to evaluate, because, as we
often talk about on this show, like the Bechdel Test

is a useful tool for the basis of a very
very basic conversation. You know, it can springboard into other conversations,
but it's very baseline. And people seem to still have
a misunderstanding about its role in our show, and I
get it. We did accidentally name the show after it,
but it.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
Was like, twenty sixteen. Can't be held accountable for what
I did in twenty sixteen?

Speaker 3 (10:55):
Yeah, truly. The people will be like, oh, so you
must have liked that movie because it passed to the
Bechdel Test, right, And I'm like, what, No, not like
it's not like the be All end. So I appreciate
how thorough the Kent Test is and its examination of media, and.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
The Kent Test is very relevant to the movie we're
talking about today. We are covering the two thousand and
five and boy is it two thousand and five movie
Beauty Shop, a Queen Latifa vehicle, directed by Billy Woodruff,
written by Kate Lanier and Norman Vance Junior Klarkisha, what

is your history with this movie?

Speaker 5 (11:35):
First of all, it's you know, it's a Queen Latifa movie,
and I love Queenlatifa. I would like watch her absolutely anything.
Is she's a special Where she was describing like paying
drying on a wall, I would be there because she's
very talented, and you know, this is one of her
earlier movies and all over it to lie it was

a spinoff of you know, the Barbershop movies, and I'm
actually quite we didn't get no sequel or you know,
third way, we didn't get into that, and I'm like,
I know, So it's a very formative movie for me too, because,
like I said, you know, early two thousands, Fat Rep
was horrendous, honestly a comm against humanity. And you know,
so there's some people out there that only some money

for therapy bills behind that kind of era. But you know,
Queen Latie for that era is very important because she
was like I don't gonna want to even say unintentionally,
because I feel like when black women do stuff, it's
always intentional, even if it's like very understated. So for her,
I feel like she functioned that eras like this like
countercultural thing, like okay, y'all trying to make sad people

look bad, you want us to feel bad, et cetera,
et cetera. No, that's not what I'm here for someone
to put out these movies because she had that, she
had the last Holiday. There's a couple of other ones.
It's not more problematic than others. But you know, you know,
she put out these movies. She had these these interesting fashions.

Speaker 4 (12:55):
She always casts these hot asthmen as her love instruments. Yes,
it was really great, So I'm.

Speaker 5 (13:03):
Just gonna be a special place in my heart. And yeah,
it also was for me super enjoyable. But because like
people that you would have never die of showing up
in the movie, like there's her diamond, Afy Woodard.

Speaker 4 (13:16):
Then you got Andy McDowell, then you got Kevin By.

Speaker 5 (13:21):
Kevin went movies for fun, you know when they were fun.

Speaker 4 (13:26):
Haven't fun?

Speaker 2 (13:27):
Yeah, so yes, we have like a child rapper little JJ.
I mean we have this movie has everything. It has
Octavia Spencer in a very small role before she was
really famous. Like, yeah, this movie really put me in
such a specific place. I was like I am in
seventh grade and.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
Yeah, Jamie, what's your relationship with the movie.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
I feel like we've covered a lot of these movies
and the show recently. This was a sleepover movie for me.
I've seen it at a number of sleepovers in middle school.
I feel like it was on TV a lot as
well later on. I haven't seen a second Barbershop movie
where I know Gena's character is introduced, so I cannot
speak to the Barbershop expanded universe, but I've seen the

first Barbershop movie and then yeah, Beauty Shop. I feel
like it was just an obvious pick because it's two
thousand and five and it's a Queen Latifa movie, so
I was really excited about it. Hadn't seen it in
easily a decade, probably more before getting ready for this episode,
and I was like, what do I remember about this movie?
I remember Alfrey Woodard starting to recite Phenomenal Woman at

the drop of a hat, and I remember little JJ,
the child rapper, because I think I was like, he's
cute and everything else I forgot, So I I it
was a fun revisit ed. There's this shit little stuff
to talk about, but it's nostalgic. It feels like you're saying, Clerkisha,
like this movie is you know, flawed, but it's fun.

It's like I just I really enjoyed it. I also
did not realize it was Kevin Bacon until like a
half hour in. Yes, I was like.

Speaker 5 (15:06):
Once we used to have fun these movies. I love
that we can't do that now.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Like I Kevin Veagan, would he take on these highlights now?
I know? And I think like Kevin Bacon and Queen
Latifa right now are on like crime procedurals, like they're not.
Let's get Beauty Shop too. I don't need the crime
procedurals anyways, Kitlyn, what's your history with Beauty Shop and
the Barbershop Expanded Universe?

Speaker 3 (15:30):
Pretty brief? I had never seen Beauty Shop before prepping
for this episode. I had seen the first barber Shop,
but that's kind of where it begins and ends. So
I've seen Beauty Shop twice now, and I also rewatched
Barber Shop just to see kind of how the two compare.
If there was any like notable things to say, I
have a couple thoughts on it, but yeah, other than that,

I hadn't seen it. But I do love Queen Latifa soul.
It's always a pleasure to watch her. We just covered
Valentine's Day, in which she has a very small role
that it like does not do her justice at all.
So it was a breath of fresh air to be
able to actually like watch her in a starring role

and just see all the talent that she has to offer.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
She's the best. I was trying to think of if
there's other franchises. I feel like this has definitely happened,
but I couldn't think of one off the top of
my head where there was like a very male centered
franchise like Barbershop. And I say this with love because
I really love this movie. Like they kind of missus
pac Man the spinoff where they're like, here's girl this

movie you.

Speaker 3 (16:38):
Like Ocean's eight from the Oceans eleven, twelve, and thirteen franchise.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah, it's a thing. It's a thing, and we should
have had two of them.

Speaker 4 (16:47):
Truly, me is a better movie.

Speaker 5 (16:50):
I agree, there's still like some problematic aspects obviously, but
like in comparison to Barbershop, right.

Speaker 6 (16:59):
Yeah, yeah, So let's take a quick break.

Speaker 3 (17:03):
We'll come back for the recap and then we'll discuss.
So we'll be right back and we're back all right.
So here is the recap for Beauty Shop two thousand

and five. We are in Atlanta. We meet Gina that's
Queen Latifa's character, and her daughter Vanessa played by Paige Heard.
They live with Gina's mother in law, Paulette played by
Laura Hayes, and her daughter Darnell played by Kisha Knight Polliam.
She's in her twenties, I think. And we see Gina

drop her daughter Vanessa off at a private arts school,
and then Gina goes to work at a beauty salon
owned by a man named Horror. And this is Kevin
Bacon like you've never seen or heard him.

Speaker 6 (18:04):
Before or since, I don't think, I think not yeah,
And his thing is that he's very shitty and condescending
to Gina, and Gina has aspirations of owning her own
beauty shop.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
She also makes her own special hair conditioner that one
of her clients, Joanne played by Mina Suvari, just swears by.
She also uses this conditioner on another client, Terry played
by Andy McDowell, and they're loving this homemade conditioner. We
also meet Gina's colleague Lynn, played by Alicia Silverstone who

wants to be a stylist, but right now her job
at Jorges Salon is to shampoo the clients. So everyone
wants much more than this provincial life.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
Basically, as I was watching this, I was like, Wow,
I don't understand stand how hair salons work. I was like,
is shampoo a job? I didn't realize.

Speaker 3 (19:06):
I've only ever been shampooed by the same person who
then like cuts or styles my hair, so I didn't
know that was a separate job.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
Maybe it's like, if you have enough money, there's someone
whose job is just shampoo. I don't know. My hair
looks like shit, Like I just don't know. No, it doesn't, Jamie, Well,
it's okay, I accept it, but it does.

Speaker 3 (19:27):
Okay, all right. Then we see a scene where Gina's daughter,
Vanessa plays piano. She's prepping for an upcoming recital. We
learned that Vanessa's dad used to play, but he has
passed away, so Gina is a widow. Back at the salon,
Jorge gets upset with Gina about something unreasonable, and she's

had enough of him, so Gina quits and then starts
investigating how to open up her own beauty shop. She
goes to the bank for a loan she gets it's
rejected by a white lady banker who appears to have
a crush on one of her colleagues. So then Gina
gives her a makeover and it changes the banker's mind

and she approves alone for thirty thousand dollars, which is
like over one hundred thousand less than what Gina is
hoping for, which means that the only thing Gina can
afford is a pretty rundown though still functioning beauty shop,
and she buys it. Gina, Vanessa, Paulette, and Darnell fix
up the shop, although there's still this like big hole

in the ceiling with all of these electrical wires sticking
out and this loud piano music can be heard coming
from upstairs. So Gina calls an electrician, Joe played by
Jamon Hansu, to come and fix the wires, and then
we're like, okay, love interest for Gina alert.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah, I want this to become a movie trough. Why
didn't like the hot guy that plays piano through your
broken ceiling become a movie trope? It's such a good idea.

Speaker 3 (21:05):
Yes, it's also such a convenient relationship.

Speaker 4 (21:11):
Right, have one, like we're creative.

Speaker 3 (21:14):
Like I don't know, I don't know what happened.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
I love just like the writers sitting and being like, okay, okay, okay,
there's a hole in the ceiling. What is the best
thing to put in a hole in the ceiling? A
beautiful man playing piano? Done, Let's proceed.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
Right, because again, it's a very convenient relationship. He lives upstairs,
he's the one playing piano. Her daughter Vanessa plays the piano.
So it's like, wow, everything's connected, hot stepdad alert. Yeah.
The next day, the stylists, who were already renting space
at the existing salon, they show up to work, so

we meet a few of them, Chanelle played by Golden Brooks,
Miss Josephine played by Alfrey Woodard, and Ida played by
Sherry Shepherd, who who, by the way, is extremely gregnant. Yes,
that is her whole thing. Have you with greg Yes?
And Gina has also hired Lynn, the Alicia Silverstone character,

but a couple of the other stylists, whose names are
Mercedes and Portia, don't want to work with a white woman,
so they bail and can you blame them? Based on
Alicia Silverstone's conduct. After that, we'll talk about it. Yeah,
Then Gina's beauty shop officially opens. Some clients from the

old shop come in, and Gina does her best to
convince them that they should keep coming to her beauty shop.
We see just everyone, all the stylists getting into the
swing of things again. Lynn is doing very like Cringey
White Lady nonsense. There's also this kid, Willie played by
Little JJ, who's selling candy bars to raise money for

his music video that he's gonna shoot, which just turns
out to be him shooting footage of women's butts. So
that's interesting.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
I felt a pang of shame realizing that this was
the part of the movie I remembered the most. I
blame my child brain.

Speaker 3 (23:15):
But yeah, I wrote him down in my notes as
Patriarchy the Kid, because we always talk about Patriarchy the
Guy on this show, but this is a new twist
on it. We've got Patriarchy the Kid.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
If you can vanquish Patriarchy the Guy. But yeah, Patriarchy
the Kid, I haven't seen that one.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
Yeah innovation anyway. So meanwhile, Jorge has found out that
Gina has opened her own shop and he's not happy
about it, especially after Gina poaches Terry aka Andy McDowell
as a client. Then we meet Catfish Rita, who regularly
stops by the shop to sell her home cooked food.

We also see an inspector from the state board, so
he's bureaucracy the guy. He comes by and slaps Gina
with a fine for having trash in the alleyway, which
was about to be picked up by this guy named
James played by Bryce Wilson, who is an ex con.

But Gina doesn't care about that, and she hires him
because she admires his braid work, and so he starts
working at the shop, and all of the stylists and
all of the customers think James is so hot, but
because of reductive stereotypes, they suspect he might be gay.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
It really was like it felt like a comprehensive list
of reductive two thousand and five stereotypes around gay men. Like,
just when you think they had played every hit, there
was another one that I didn't even remember. Was a
thing like he watches Oprah, Like it's just unbelievably weird

and specif and two thousand and five in the pejorative way.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yes, exactly. Then Gina's sister in law, Darnell, gets in
trouble with the law because she was riding around on
her boyfriend's motorcycle, which turned out to be stolen, so
she goes to jail. Gina bails her out of jail,
and so to pay her back, Darnell starts working at

the beauty shop. Also, Octavia Spencer's there in a quick
scene where Chanelle makes a fat phobic remark to her,
and then that's all we get from Mockdavius Spencer, although
I wanted to point out the connection of So Gina
has a photograph of Madame CJ. Walker, who's like her icon.

She has that image hanging in her beauty shop. And
of course Madame CJ. Walker was the first American woman
who is like a self made millionaire. She made her
fortune selling cosmetics and hair care products specifically for black women.
And of course, Octavius Spencer played her in the Netflix
series Self Made. So way full circle. Okay, So then

there's an electrical emergency at the shop.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
There's a plot emergency. We've got to get the hot
guy over here to fix the plot emergency.

Speaker 3 (26:25):
Yeah, she calls Joe. He comes and sets up like
a backup generator, but she still gets another fine from
the State Board inspector guy, and if she gets one
more citation, the shop will be shut down. So the
steaks are high. Also, she and Joe are kind of vibing,
and there's one point where Gina's daughter Vanessa goes upstairs

to play piano with Joe, and then Gina goes upstairs too,
and then they're vibing some more, and then business continues
as usual. Joanne, that's the Mina Suvari character, she reappears
and tells Gina that she's going to hook her up
with a deal to sell Gina's homemade conditioner to Cover Girl,

and Gina's like, that's amazing, which.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Was very exciting. And also I was like, Discover Girl,
do they have hair.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
Prayer care products?

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Not that I know of, it doesn't matter, but I
did pause and Google. I was like, did I miss
they were trying to get into it. Gina was going
to be their gateway into hair care?

Speaker 3 (27:33):
Sure? Was this also the time the Queen Latifa was
like one of the faces of Cover Girl.

Speaker 5 (27:39):
Yeah, I want to say yes or right before because
I remember her foundation. I was like the one of
the first ones I got because all of the few
that had shades that were dark as me. So I
was just like, all right, buy your shit. Loved it
for me, but yeah, either then or right before, differently.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yeah, I figured there it must be some connection between
like her being like one of the faces of Cover
Girl and why that's in this movie.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yeah, she started working with Cover Girl in two thousand
and one.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
Well there you go in any case, So this deal
is like kind of on the table, and Gina's very
excited about it. She takes all the stylists out to
a club to celebrate. Joe shows up because Vanessa invited
him because we have another kid trying to set up
their parents with a love story. So Joe and Gina dance,

and then James and Lynn dance and they also start
making out, and everyone's like, hmm, I guess James isn't gay.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
Do do do do do do do do?

Speaker 5 (28:44):
Just like, uh, you yet you miss napped because he
was a humfold Yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
Right, yeah. Don't make assumptions about people's sexuality or gender
or anything.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
And of course it's presented as a binary like there's
no in this world. A conversation around bisexuality pants. Actually
like that is not a part of the two thousand
and five movie Years.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Certainly not so Yeah, they start dating and then Joe
and Gina go home together and they kiss on the lips.

Speaker 2 (29:18):

Speaker 3 (29:19):
The next day, that kid Willie who's always again videotaping
women's butts, he sees Orgey pay off the inspector from
the state board and it becomes clear that Jorge is
responsible for all these finds that Gina has been getting
and that he's trying to shut down her shop, and
Willie catches all of this on his video camera.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Again, I love this plot, contrive it.

Speaker 3 (29:43):
It's great.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
They're like, who knew that the creepy kid with a
cam corridor was a plant to catch Kevin Bacon up
to no good? It's just such movie logic.

Speaker 4 (29:54):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (29:56):
I feel like the parallel in barber Shop is the
two guys who keep lugging around the ATM that they stole,
and then it ends up paying off at the end
because it's like, oh, there's a reward if you find
the ATM and that saves the shop. So anyway, movies,
this movie feels like a movie. You know, it's been

said all right, So then Gina is trying to still
close this deal of selling her conditioner to Cover Girl,
but then Joanne gets into an argument with Lynn and
Chanelle in the shop. After Joanne assaults James and Joanne
is making a scene, she wants Chanelle to be fired,

but Gina refuses to fire her, so Joanne calls the
deal with Cover Girl off and storms out. And then
that night someone I wasn't sure if it was implied
to be Joanne or if it's implied to be Jorge
or who exactly does this, but someone vandalizes the beauty

shop definitely define poor Okay, but that scene takes place
immediately after Joanne storms out, So I'm like, was it her, Like,
was she so angry about this that she It was
a little unclear to me.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
But yeah, and Joanne like basically disappears after that anyway. Yeah,
I also thought it was horrorhe but yeah, there's so
many devious people to uh choo start at this point.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
True, if you're a blonde, white person in this movie,
you're doing something bad in basically every scene.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
It's true.

Speaker 3 (31:32):
So the next day is Vanessa's piano recital and Gina
goes to it, but she has all this other stuff
weighing on her mind, the vandalism and the deal being
called off with cover Girl. But when she comes back
to the shop, the stylists have cleaned and fixed the
place back up. Even so Gina is like, I don't
know if we can keep the shop going, like there's

not enough money. We're struggling. But then a woman bursts
in the shop. She's about to go to a wedding,
and Gina fixes her up and uses her conditioner on her,
and everything's great. And let's put a pin.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
In that this movie is really well written. I just
there's so many.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
Play Chekhov's radio host.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
Just like Chekhov's kid with a cam corner, right, Because
before we find out who this woman is who is
about to go to this wedding, Willie comes in and
gives Gina the tape of George colluding with the inspector guy.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
So Gina goes to Jorge and confronts him and she's like, nice,
try bitch, You're a loser and I'm a winner. And
then they're at the shop again, and it turns out
that the woman who came in to get fixed up
before the wedding is this radio host Helen played by
Adel Gibbons, who they always listen to in the shop.

And Helen shouts out Gina and her shop and her conditioner.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
We're all cheering.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
It's great, everything's fine, everything's good. She's got publicity and
the shop is gonna be a okay. So that's the movie.
Let's take another quick break and we'll come back to discuss.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
And we're back. Where to begin? Calrqaysia, Is there anything
that jumps out to you or you'd like to start?

Speaker 5 (33:30):
So? I will say that I like the movie's very colorful.
Color has been drained from all our movies as of late.

Speaker 4 (33:38):
I don't like it.

Speaker 5 (33:38):
It's very technically fitting with the time, was very dystoping, right,
So I love it. It's super colorful and like I
think we talked about right before we started the episode,
the cast love to cast is just again people that
you wouldn't expectively just showing up, like you said me
a Safari enemy, Dow, Kevin Bacon, every Wordard Okay Via

Spencer Like, people kept showing up and I was like,
this is great, this is great.

Speaker 4 (34:04):
So I loved it for that reason.

Speaker 5 (34:06):
I also loved that it was you know, because I
did used to like the Barbershop, so I loved that
it was a spin off, like it was a nice
constutu thing going. And like I said, this movie, I've
done it before in my like Twitter spaces before, you know,
the rab Bastard Block, the Blackform. But yeah, I had
definitely passed the Kent test with like flying colors, like
eight out of eight excellent.

Speaker 4 (34:28):
So yeah, again it's like for me like top ten movies.

Speaker 5 (34:32):
So I'm definitely excited to get into like further discussion.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
Yeah, I was curious how it would fare on the
Kent test. But because it's a movie about camaraderie and
friendship among black women. It's a movie about a black
woman being a business owner and an entrepreneur, and also
an examination of the obstacles she's up against in a racist,

classiest world being a black businesiness owner. We see the
scene where you know, she can't get approved for the
business loan at the bank. At first, she's told by
the white banker that she doesn't have the adequate you know,
like credit, collateral or capital. But we know that black
people are often denied loans for businesses and mortgages and

everything because of systemic racism, and then she's only approved
for a loan that's a very small fraction of what
she initially requested. So all these things that she's up against,
including also the white guy that she works for towards
the beginning of the movie, who doesn't value her work,
he feels threatened by her. He constantly undermines her. There's

the bureaucracy, the guy, the white guy who's always coming
in and like slapping her with fines. I like that
the movie explores all that in a meaningful way.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
Yeah, while still very much remaining a too Like I
think this movie has a very light touch, but it's
not evasive in a way that I think a lot
of movies are. Because I mean, even in the scene
at the bank that you're describing, like Gina says explicitly
like she knows why she is not being given a
fair shot at this bank load, like it is very clear,

and even then she doesn't get what she asked for
and that she deserved and that a white business person
would very likely get without a lot of.

Speaker 3 (36:27):
Struggle, any pushback. Yeah. Also that banker is like, you know,
you can apply for a credit card instead of throwing
around your race card. And then when Gina approaches her
in the bathroom, she's like, don't kill me. She's afraid that.
She's like, it's like violence on her. I'll just like, get.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
This, this racist banker got a free haircut. It's not fair,
but it gets the beauty shot.

Speaker 4 (36:54):

Speaker 2 (36:55):
In any case, I was really happy to see. I
don't know, I think just like when I think of
movies from this era that have a cast that mostly women,
I'm like, this is great. I wonder how they're gonna
somehow make it about a man anyways, because I feel
like we see that a lot, but that doesn't really
happen here. I liked that. I mean even in the

like Little JJ and Gina's daughter, I thought that they
were going to force, you know, a child romance, but
it's like that is mercifully avoided. And this is a
rare example. I think that we're often like you can
cut out the love story. It's not a big deal.
But I really like this love story. I think it's sweet.
I don't think it gets in the way. Like I

think where I get frustrated with love story plots is
when it all of a sudden is taking up all
the air in the movie, but here it's like Gina
deserves love. He's a great guy, he's obsessed with her,
he's hot.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
He's so supportive, and.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
He's not like on screen so much that he all
of a sudden sort of is taking over the movie
above the community of women. And so I'm like, I'm
fine with it. I like it.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
Yeah, but I'm also like, let Queen Latifah be gay
in more movies. If she does have to be in
a hetero relationship in a movie, who better than Jaimon Hansu, Right?

Speaker 7 (38:21):

Speaker 2 (38:21):
Also I think married Kimoraly Simmons shortly after this, if
I'm recalling my Komoraly Simmons history correctly.

Speaker 5 (38:28):
Oh, I don't know if they're ever officially married, but
like they were together while a long time.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
Yeah, yeah, because he was like on her show, right, Okay,
Wow two thousand Sprain, it's coming back. This movie really
did bring back some like regressed like thoughts that just
like were collecting dust like information about Komoralley Simmons, who's
also in this movie in a very two thousand and
five cameo. But yeah, I mean I think that this

movie does a great job at like remaining centered on
the characters that are advertised, which almost never happens. Do
we want to talk about sort of the women who
work at the shop. Yeah, we have a lot of
people to choose from, and again, like distinct personality is
it everyone has their own, which I feel like is
also very true of the barbershop movies. But I just

like it's beauty shop and I like women better, so
this is good. Yeah, I mean I feel like everyone
has within the shop. It's more like this is the
woman who does this, This is the woman who does this.
But that's very I don't know, ensemble comedy ish, right,
I felt like outside of the Linn stuff, which we
should probably get into, I mean, all of the women

are really cool. I like that. Like, I don't know,
for the most part, like it just felt very community
like people giving each other shit. I enjoyed it. Lynn, Okay,
where do we start. There are other movies that have
done this. I can't remember what movies we've talked about

that half, but that like it seems like there is
the suggestion that, like the racism that Gina faced at
Jorgees and also in the world as we've seen at
the bank, in all these different situations is comparable to
Lynn at Gina's Beauty Shop, and it does not work

at all because that's not true.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
Yeah, I was a little confused by that choice.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
I'm opening the floor to the Linn situation.

Speaker 5 (40:37):
You know again oral two thousands shit right, So people
their racial politics is very what you know what one
of those things were Like, No, I feel like it
definitely could be written better because I know what they're
trying to say, what it's saying it very badly. One
of those things where it's just like, you know, you
can't be someone who is not a member of the community,

right and thinks that you're going to just be touch
of people's.

Speaker 4 (41:00):
Head and hair, right.

Speaker 5 (41:02):
Like, I don't know about other people, but like for me,
you know, I am what's definite. I'm not jeering, but
I was like born here firmly in the States. You know,
I grew up in a very strong, robust, very tight
knit Black American community, and you know a lot of
us are just like, you know, if we don't fuck
with you, you can't touch our head. Like that's the whole thing,
Like you cannot touch our head. Nope, hair and nope.

It's a very intimate thing for someone to just you know,
putting their hands in your hair, doing whatever, right, so
I could get the distrust of this life random white
girl coming here, she's about to touch my head, Like
I don't know, I don't know. So I understand what
they were trying to say in the fact that you know,
she would have to play ball with the community and

you know, like really plug in. Now how they end
up praying it was beards, So this was like, you know,
trying to give her like this halfway black saying because
she is Southern, so she had that going for her.

Speaker 4 (41:59):
So I don't know why she.

Speaker 5 (42:00):
Didn't just lean into day, but like it's weird like
halfway black picasto, but not fully right.

Speaker 4 (42:08):
You know, she's there.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
We recently covered Save the Last Dance, and it very
much reminded me. I mean, it wasn't as bad as
the Julia Styles makeover from or It's just a different
flavor of bad. Like I don't know, but I was like,
this was something that happened in movies in the two thousands.
Is I agree with the cl Like the way that

Lynn talks is very like all lives matterie where she's
like I've done everyone's hair black, white and polka dot.
I'm like, that's all lives matter rhetoric. Like that's like
you're I don't know, you.

Speaker 5 (42:44):
Were missing the entire point, like you were in you know,
you're not poor had shop anymore where like not even
in the clientele is like white, Like no, you are
Gina's shop where nine the client til is black, and like.

Speaker 4 (42:57):
They don't know you. So so yeah, you're.

Speaker 5 (43:01):
Gonna get some looks, gonna get some you know, standoffish,
clipped responses.

Speaker 4 (43:07):
Yeah, it's one of those things. Were lying.

Speaker 5 (43:08):
You know, I didn't mind some of the hairstyles, but others.
Was like you're doing a lot, you know, it's just
enough to like display that you have these skills and
leave it at dat, like focus on the skills, like
you're trying to do this weird black cosplays like it
wasn't needed. But like I said, two thousands racial pots
is really weird. Like it's really weird even from certain

black stars and black celebrities. Lord notes, Oh and that
could be its a whole different, like honestly episode and
show true.

Speaker 3 (43:39):
Well, I want to take a little detour because I
wrote out the beats of Lynn's story just to be like,
what are any of these choices? But the detoy I
want to take is who made this movie? Who wrote
the movie? And so there's a story by credit by
Elizabeth Hunter. She is a black woman who has worked

mostly into as a writer and producer. I don't know
to what extent she wrote any draft of a script
or what exactly her involvement is, but she's credited with
a story by credit. The two credited screenwriters of this
movie are Norman Vance Junior, who is another writer mostly

working in TV. He's a black man, and then Kate Vanier.
We have talked about her before on this show, on
the set It Off episode, because she is a white
woman who wrote a bunch of movies with predominantly black casts.
She wrote the screenplay for set it Off, She wrote
the Tina Turner biopic What's Love Got to Do With It?

She wrote Crazy Sexy Cool, the TLC story, She wrote Glitter,
and she wrote Glitter. We have to remember that she
did write Glitter. She's got some crimes under her belt.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
She has to answer for it. I haven't seen Bitter
in a long time.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
And as we talked about on the set It Off episode,
she like defended these movies she written by saying, like, well,
I know black people, and I love black people, so
that gives me permission to write black stories as if
they're my own stories to tell. So that is one

of the co writers of this movie. So with that
in mind, let's return back to some of these other topics.
So going back to Lynn to speak to what you
were saying Clarkisha about like the reluctance to trust her
from the clientele and the other stylists at the beauty shop, Like, yes,
that absolutely tracks, and her conduct. Lynn's conduct, her desperate

attempt to try to fit in by doing like weird
appropriate of stuff like that also tracks because that is
a lot of white people behavior that we see a
lot of the time.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
But it's not done critically exactly it happened.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
And in fact, her arc is that all the black
people in the shop encourage her to keep appropriating and
change her hairstyle and like talk a certain way, and
then it lands her this black boyfriend who for as
much as I enjoy the romance between Gina and Joe,

I'm like, what is this romance between Lynn and James,
I don't understand because.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
It's also caught in the crossfire of the homophobic triph
that's going on. So it's just yeah, like a perfect
storm of two thousand and five movie flaws.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
Yeah, so her character's arc in like the way because
at first, like when she's engaging in all this like
appropriative behavior, we cut to Alfre Woodard and she Shephard
like giving her looks and being like what the fuck
is she doing? But then by the end they're like, yeah,

this is actually awesome what you're doing.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
On board the other end of that, we have the
Mina Suvari character who assaults James just like full on,
although I would guess that the politics of the sexual
politics of two thousand and five probably would not say that,
but that's definitely what happens. That micro interaction I thought

was really interesting for they didn't like because like she
grabs his butt as he's walking past her. Already she
just assaulted him, and then Lynn calls her out on it,
but only because James is her boyfriend, not because Mina
Savari just assaulted someone like and again, very very uncritical

and it's more like, oh, you're jealous, and like, no,
you just committed a crime, Like what again? Two thousand
and five. But yeah, Mina Savari is really oscillating between
like a full on villain. But then she also makes
the connection with cover Girl like that was all over
the place.

Speaker 4 (48:02):
I mean, actually very true to life.

Speaker 5 (48:04):
It's why I'm being honest with you, and you know,
dealing with white women, especially in these professional capacities right
very you know, doctor Jeko, mister Hyde type shit.

Speaker 4 (48:14):
So it actually made sense that she was like that.

Speaker 5 (48:17):
And then for you know, Lynn and her, I'm really
glad you kind of putting them on this like spectrum,
right because you have Lynn, Like, let's be honest, Lynn's
given white trash.

Speaker 4 (48:26):
Like let's keep it up. But she's given white trash, right,
and then you got men up.

Speaker 5 (48:31):
I forgot her character's name, but she given like even
know was waspy white, that.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
Kind of thing, upscale kind of.

Speaker 5 (48:38):
So it makes sense that they will be like fighting
over this person for like the wrong reason. Honestly, for me,
it's given like plantation politics, like hey, that's that's fine.

Speaker 4 (48:50):
You know, I own that you can't be touched and
that's my property. That's what's given.

Speaker 5 (48:53):
I was like, ew, like what again, because like you said,
it's beauty shop that it's very quick, it's very subtle,
but it's like it's just like, hey, do you do
you see what we're doing with this right? So for me,
I was just like, no, that character makes absolute sense.

Speaker 3 (49:08):
Especially yeah, that she's the type of white woman who
will like engage with black people even give them her money,
you know, her business as long as it serves her.
But the second anyone challenges her.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
Or I mean, she demands that someone gets fire later.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
Very Karen behavior. And she's not demanding that Lynn that
the Alicia Silverson character gets fired another white woman. She's
demanding that Chanelle, a black woman, get fired, and Gina's like, no,
get the fuck out of my shop. So yeah, the
Mina Sufari character, her behavior also tracked. We're just seeing

like different versions of white women white women ing in
this movie between Lynn and between Joanne I think is
her character's name.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
And Andy McDowell's character too, who like kind of ends
up skating through the movie and then we have the
whole butt prosthetic at the end that I did not remember.
But with Andy McDowell, there are a series of like
microaggressions that she does. I mean, I feel like the
one that stood out for me, was trying to bring

up Janet Jackson in an insulting way, which is a
very early two thousands talking point, but like, if you
were alive in the early two thousands, you can tell
exactly what the writers are doing. Where like she's basically
regurgitating the white media narrative around Janet Jackson that completely
blamed her and literally called her crazy. And it just

all these horrible, untrue things that on a long enough
timeline that narrative has shifted. But Andy McDowell is a
white woman, first of all, trying to connect with a
room full of black women by insulting Janet jack Like,
it just this is like unbelievably misguided. And in that case,
if like the movie knows that and Annie McDowell is

wrong and she has to, like you, get her shit
together kind of not that she necessarily does.

Speaker 3 (51:12):
But and then another part of her character is at
first she's like catfish rita your soul food, No thanks,
I don't eat like that, and then she comes around.
It almost honestly feels like to some degree this movie
is more interested in a few of the character arcs
of the white women than it is of Because I

would love to have seen more of a subplot of
Alfrey Woodard's or Sherry Shepherd or what's the actor who
plays Chanelle Golden Golden Brooks, Like, where are their little
vignettes of their interior lives. We know that Sherry Shepherd's
character is pregnant, but we don't really know much else
about it except that she's also like horny for every

other man she sees. Pretty funny, but like I felt
those characters were a little underdeveloped. I would have loved
to see more of their interior lives and more of
just like their relationships with each other. But I feel
like there's a lot of real estate in the story
given to these white women like b characters that I

don't know if that was an attempt to quote unquote
make this movie more marketable to a wide spread audience,
I not sure, But it plays out in a way
that reads weird, and it's focusing on characters who I
don't care about, and I would rather see more of
the others.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
Yeah, I don't think we necessarily needed a gradient of
types of white women this movie. We do get more
of an arc for Keisha Knight William's character Darnell, where
I feel like this movie. I mean again, I think
I totally agree. Where I would have liked more detailed
arcs for their women within the shop, we do get

some decent time with the family outside the shop.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
That true.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
I don't know. I enjoyed that where you know, Gina
and Darnell have this like antagonistic but loving, very familial
relationship even though it's very plotty. I liked when Darnell
came back to the shop and did want to work
with Gina. I don't know, I wish like I don't
have that much to say about Darnell, but she did

have an arc. I liked her, and I really like
Gina's daughter. I think that's the story between her. Gina
and Joe is so sweet and Kayla and I have
talked to Billy Tis about like, when you put a
precocious child in the movie, it can go a lot
of ways. Yes, you real back, it can be grating,

but I really thought that that balance was really sweet.
I love the jazz that Joe teaches her comes back
like that kind of brings the two of them together.
I loved it, and I love that she says my
favorite line in the movie, I don't eat donuts with
boys who exploit women.

Speaker 3 (54:05):
Okay, can we talk about that kid real quick because
the patriarchy. The kid Willie played by Little JJ. So,
as we've discussed, he's going around shooting footage with his
little handheld video camera. He's always shooting women's butts, making
comments on women's bodies in general. He routinely gets called

out for it, Vanessa, that quote they already shared, Jamie,
and then Gina says something like, don't come back here
until you learn how to speak to a lady. But
he doesn't listen. He keeps coming back. But it feels
like such a contradictory choice to have that behavior of
him objectifying and sexualizing women be called out. But then

the movie does the same exact thing by having a
bunch of like this male gay cinematography that specifically focuses
on women's butts. It also has women making shamy comments
about other women's bodies.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
There's a lot of early two thousands fixation on plastic surgery.
Plastic surgery.

Speaker 3 (55:10):
Yeah, and then also, like the kid, ultimately the fact
that he was filming women's butts is a good thing actually,
because if he wasn't doing that, he would have never
gotten that footage that incriminates Kevin Bacon, so.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
I didn't think of it that way. But yeah, that's
not great. He was right to do that.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
So I just found his character frustrating overall.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
According to my little brother, he was doing serviceable work
over at all that and so maybe this just wasn't
Little JJ's big moment. His moment was on all that fair.

Speaker 5 (55:47):
I appreciate him not sugarcoating, as you said, patriarchy the kid,
because again, it is usually just being like, oh, this
adult male popped out nowhere and he's a misogynistic ass.
But you know that doesn't happen until they become adults.
I'm like, no, that's not the case. And for me,
you know, I have them showing that, you know, because
I don't like movies that try to sanitize human behavior,

like now, they don't show it to me and try
to glorify it because you know, you know, there's some
piece of me to do that. They're like, oh, this
is terrible, but you know they're an anti hero. I
don't want to watch that ship. But I appreciate things
like that because I remember recently, I think you saw
the little announcement about tweaks that being made to a
certain character and a certain production with a kid who

has an air on his head. I'm not gonna say
it because I'm not trying to get them, but you know,
they were trying to make a key change to one
of the main characters because they're like, oh, you know
him in the original series, Like he started off as
very misogynistic and we want to da da da da, but.

Speaker 4 (56:51):
Why he is a young boy. That's what they do.

Speaker 5 (56:55):
That's not to excuse it, but like you need to
be able to show that trajectory because you know, his
team ends up being girls and both of them, both
his sister and the new teammate, put him in his place,
so then he has to start reshaping his world view
about you know, girls and women, right, Like it's the
thing we talked about earlier in the show where we

talked about biases, right, Like, clearly he was born with
his bias because of like you know, his tribe and
what their gifts to seeing women do, right, but like
just not your tribe, Like this is not that time.
So you're supposed to show him shifting after being checked,
but not just them. But you know, later in the
series by other really awesome and very dynamic women and girls.

Speaker 4 (57:35):
Right, So I like when movies and media are like
real about this shit.

Speaker 5 (57:40):
But also don't try to be like it's okay, because
it wasn't okay. Right, Like he said, he did get
routinely called out on it. Now I wish somebody would
took his camera, but right, you know, you know, but yeah, no, I.

Speaker 4 (57:52):
Do appreciate that, Like, no, let's don't sugarcrowd it because
this was how.

Speaker 3 (57:56):
The behavior is called out, Yes, at the very least,
and this other show that shall not be named. It's
important to show arcs like that because yes, many young
men and boys, they're a product of their environment, and
their environment is patriarchy, so they learn things that need
to be unlearned, and it's important to show people unlearning

their biases and so to make an adjustment that ignores that.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Like yeah, particularly in media for kids too. Yeah, watching
a character that you love unlearned that in real time
is genuinely motivational.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
What else? Does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss?

Speaker 2 (58:40):
I don't have too much else. I just wanted to
shout out the director Bill Wooddriff, who we often cover
the music video director to feature director Pipeline. Some of
the most prolific music video directors of the nineties into
the two thousands, like Truly name a popular act at

this time, particularly Black musical acts at this time. He
directed Truly Everybody ninety seven, big year for him. I
just wanted to shout out his ninety seven because the
hits are great. He did a Backstreet Boys music video
this year, he did an Outcast music video. He did
genu Wine, he did Usher, You Make Me Wanna, He

did Salt and Peppa, Are You Ready? And he did
Celine Dion My Heart Will Go On in nineteen ninety seven.

Speaker 3 (59:29):
I mean, the Titanic connection is.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
Every found the Titanic Connection, It's everything. But he also,
I mean directed his first movie, which I haven't watched
in forever, But he also directed Honey and the various
movies in the Honey Expanded universe. So just wanted to
shout him out. Still working today, Clerkisha, Is there anything

else you wanted to touch on?

Speaker 5 (59:57):
I just want to dig up the movie for it's
very vast representations of black women.

Speaker 4 (01:00:04):
We don't get that as much anymore.

Speaker 5 (01:00:06):
I think there are there are some talents in Black
Hollywood that are trying to reverse that. You know, I'll
shout out like Easter Ray Quintin Brunston, like they're really
trying to like over time, trying to like in their
own way, right, because it's not the responsibility, right, Like
they're trying to like kind of like drag us back
from like what our current landscape looks like, which is like,

you know, the biracial woman standing in for like.

Speaker 4 (01:00:32):
Every black woman ever.

Speaker 5 (01:00:34):
The aggressive colorism that kind of is really pervasive unfortunately
in a lot of our work because some of these
male creatives apparently have to work out their ego on
screen and you know, I guess they're comitties and attractions
on screen, right, So I appreciate I've always appreciate Queen
Latifa's work for like displaying black women in you know,

various ways, and also across various generations too, you know,
because the young, the old, the middle age, Like the
movie has like everybody there, yeah, different shades to body
sizes because like I said, it's not as commonplace anymore,
which makes me sad to say, but yeah, it's one

of my favorite movies for that reason because like you
just see like different generations of women coming together to
make Gina's dream come true, which is big fucking you.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
Yeah, I kind of wish there were more of these two.
But you see scenes where they're all chatting about something.
There's a scene where they're talking about like do you
get your pubic hair waxed or do you leave it natural?

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Also very two thousands discussion.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
Then that like transitions into a conversation about like ooh, men,
who cry? Is that acceptable or not? They come down
on the side of no, and so you know, very
two thousand and five interpretation of that. But I love
the scenes of just like their comrade and them laughing
together and reciting phenomenal woman together and just like all

of those moments were really special. And also, Queen Lativa
has done so many like ensemble movies with a black
cast between set it off this movie Girl's Trip. I'm
sure I'm forgetting some but like she's the queen of
that and I didn't even mean to make that pun Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Look at you humiliated. I think the last thing I
wanted to shout out was that Queen Latifa produced this
movie as well, which I feel like we are always
trying to make sure we're talking about behind the camera
as well, and I think, I mean, I would be
comfortable betting that a lot of what this movie does
right is because she also had control behind the camera,

So I wanted to shut that out as well as
one of the first I think the first project that
she produced in her movie career was Bringing Down the House,
which a mot and sort of from there on out,
she produced all of the movies that she was starring
in at least, and I feel like that is reflected
in this movie, like her character is in charge. There

is like no point where I don't know, like the
tropes of the era can't really touch Queen Latifa in
her movie for the most part. And I think that
that is like a really important thing for movie stars,
especially marginalized movie stars, to have, is like control over
their image and how they're portrayed because you cannot trust producers,

like so you have to be one yourself kind of.

Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
And I was reading different interviews with her and her
intentions with this movie, and she's like, yeah, to spin
off from barber Shop, but I wanted to make it
its own thing and showcase black women, and like the
intentions are clear. I had one last little thing I
wanted to chat about and I'm curious on everyone's thoughts

on this. But in theory, this is a movie about
people who work with mostly black hair. A few of
the clients are these white these awful white women, but
it's mostly black clientele, and I feel like there was
more of an opportunity to see black hair being styled,
and I feel like the movie doesn't necessarily take a

lot of those opportunities, especially for seeing black women who
wear their hair natural. It might be a reflection of
like the.

Speaker 4 (01:04:31):
Era, definitely reflection of that era.

Speaker 5 (01:04:34):
We don't get to the what I call modern natural
hair movement, because natural hair has come in and out,
you know, and out of times. But more recent movement,
I would have said, like early twenty teens.

Speaker 4 (01:04:46):
I might be a little bit off by a couple
of years.

Speaker 5 (01:04:48):
So we weren't really there yet. We were still stuck
on you know, the hair crack, the relaxsuit. We're still
stuck on that thing. And I remember, you know, even
at that time when you started telling people that you
had stopped using relax because it's giving you obvious perm
what we call perm scabs, you know, and then later
found out to be giving people cancer as a lot

of us suspective, right, you know when even when you
were like, yeah, I don't use that stuff anymore, they'd
be like, what.

Speaker 4 (01:05:16):
Like how do you start your hair otherwise, like isn't
it like hard?

Speaker 5 (01:05:19):
And you know that's a complex discussion that we usually
have within our community. Boy, it's one of those things
where like a lot of that rhetoric is very driven
by you know, white bee standards.

Speaker 4 (01:05:30):
Unfortunately, right, But yeah, no, I agree with you.

Speaker 5 (01:05:33):
Their their definitely technically was more of an opportunity, but
because of the hair politics at the time, they weren't
gonna I think the most they would have done is
like if you've ever been to like a black beat shop,
they have like the the very creative stack styles of
hair and curls that are stacked up. You got the
you know, like not quite the bang, but you got

the hair hang you know, hair hanging in front their face.
And it's just like really marvelous example of like honestly
black people using geometry to like bills like these styles
stack them up on their head like is real creative shit.
But yeah, no, I agree with you, and that like
there there was a way to put more of those
styles in there, even if you weren't focusing on the

natural aspect for like obvious reasons. But yeah, that explains
someone dead.

Speaker 3 (01:06:20):
Yeah that makes sense and all the more reason we
need Beauty Shop too.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
All things that could have been addressed in Beauty Shop
to two thousand and seven, which for some reason we
did not get.

Speaker 3 (01:06:31):
Was that like in development and it just didn't happen or.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
No, that was just the year I think it would
have come out.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
I see it, see.

Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
It two years later. That's when sequels come out.

Speaker 3 (01:06:42):
That's true. Well, Beauty Shop to twenty twenty five, just
putting it out there in the world.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
I'll take it. I would love it.

Speaker 4 (01:06:51):
Yeah, I'll love too. I'm just like, none of you
are dead, so let's you know, let's yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:06:57):
You're all still kicking.

Speaker 4 (01:06:58):

Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
One last thing. The radio host at the very beginning,
because like you see her like Vio her voiceover and
just like her in the booth, like doing broadcasts throughout
the movie, and at the very beginning, DJ Helen is
like that Michael Vick so hot, right, and it's like, yep,
it's two thousand and five, yes, I know.

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
It's like, wait, that's not how that sentence ends today.
That's yeah, what a time to be alive. Let's talk
about a number of tests. This movie very much passes
the Bechtel test to the point where it's like it
just does. I mean, like you were just sort of

flisting off kitline. I mean the women in this story.
I mean there's a many conversations between women that we're
moving the plot ahead. There's also just a lot of
conversations between women, women of different races, different classes, different
body types. This movie has every kind of conversation between women,
which so rare.

Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
It's great true.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
But I'd also like to talk about the contest because
you mentioned Quirkysha that it is a full on pass.

Speaker 4 (01:08:08):
Yeah, it does pass it eight out of eight. So
just to go over it.

Speaker 5 (01:08:12):
So the contest has points, so all the way from
like A to G right. So first one is must
not solely be a walking stereotype or truck, and he's
not focused on white character. And if it's like you know,
expansive piece of media, then multiple right, But in this case,
I focus on mainly Gina and then you know a
couple other people, so you know, Gina's not a walking,

talking black stereotype. So We're good, right, must have their
own plot or near to arc. She got it so
on someone that's been her whole thing. She wants to
get off from Jorge Thumb really straightforward stuff. Mass must
not solely be included in the narrative for just for
holding down a male character. No, we got an opposite

Joeys hold her down, which I appreciate, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:08:57):
No, this is her story.

Speaker 5 (01:08:59):
He's her nice successory slash dessert as share would say,
not to share famous tours love her. No, he's just
there as you know nice looks like get and but
it's her. It's the genus show right so past and
then you have must not slowly be included in the
narrative to prop of white female character once again, is
Gina's show?

Speaker 4 (01:09:19):
Do they show up?

Speaker 5 (01:09:20):
Yes, but you know this is this is her thing,
So no, she's not there to hold up, you know,
or be some character.

Speaker 4 (01:09:28):
Development for you know, a white girl.

Speaker 5 (01:09:29):
Right right, then, we have must not so exist in
the film slash piece of media for the purpose of
speedisulation aside from JJP and JJ again, that's not what
this movie is about. Right again, you know this is
her show. She's trying to make her dream come true.
She's trying to keep her shop open because one thing
to like open it. You know, so many businesses open

per year, but how many people like how many stay
open and like for the same period of time.

Speaker 4 (01:09:56):
So that's her whole focus the whole movie.

Speaker 5 (01:09:58):
So past then we have must have at least one
interaction with another black woman or woman of color. Duh,
whole cats that whole cats like you. She'd turn and
talk to I don't know, the water girl, and like,
you know Keisha right there, you know, there are people
outside the shop she interacts with.

Speaker 2 (01:10:16):
Yeah, I also love that in the world have made
up jobs. Cappuccino girl, a job. It's great, great after school.

Speaker 4 (01:10:24):
Job, it's perfect. I was like, I love that. So yeah,
definitely pass.

Speaker 5 (01:10:30):
And then obviously there's an additional point here that I
put in tests where it's just like it's always going
to be bonus if the women are not immediately related,
which again passes, because you know, even though Darnell is
the thing, you know, she all the other women in Salona,
people that she interacts with routinely, and they're not blood related, right,
So there's that in the last one must not be

the go to character sacrifice in the film slash piece
of media. We won't even have to talk about it
here because none of that happens. No one wants laying
down their life for random white person. Again, this is
her movie, you know, she's kicking it and then trying
to you know, be successful in this world.

Speaker 4 (01:11:07):
So yeah, literally eight eight.

Speaker 5 (01:11:09):
I didn't have no notes aside from the ones we
kind of already discussed, which again are part of you know,
the problematic two thousand and five canon of terrible movie trope, which.

Speaker 3 (01:11:21):
And then how does the movie fair on the Kelly
and Cat test?

Speaker 5 (01:11:25):
So the Kelly Cat tests on a grave Shaw real
quick because technically in me and Sid haven't taken it
on like a full run through a lot of these
movies because, as you probably suspect, a lot of them
are just downright BD. So just be like they're just
being like okay, zero or one or like max like three,

you know, And for this test is actually out twelve
versus like eight in terms of yeah, so I'll read
the description real quick and then points right.

Speaker 4 (01:11:57):
So, the Kelley and Cat test is a media litmus test.

Speaker 5 (01:12:01):
Designed to determine whether a piece of media has provided
the audience with thoughtful representation of fat black women and
or non men.

Speaker 4 (01:12:09):
Black is a brackets So like I said, you know,
does include other women, right.

Speaker 5 (01:12:13):
This test is named after Kelly Prenni of Insecure and
Ca Hernandez of Euphoria, both of whom were subject to
fat phobic treatment on their respective shows. Fat Phobia is
in a version of hostility or disdain for fatness or
fat people. So skipping down, you know, to the criteria,
like I said, the least something can get zero, most

of them get twelve points, right, so number one, the
character will be immediately disqualified if they're merely a skinny
or thin actor in a fat suit. Like, we don't
even have to like ZM zero done, We don't even
have to go into it. And then you know, since
we're using Gina will take her through tests, right, So
must have their own character arc. Got it must not

be included in the narrative to really for a skinny
and or life skinned person's care dark no.

Speaker 4 (01:13:03):
Got it good.

Speaker 5 (01:13:05):
Therefore must not be referred to as big, bone, voluptuous, curvy, fluffy, husky,
plus sized, or sick at any point of the narrative.
I don't think she was referred to as that, so
I think she still passes. I do think I remember
like big bone being thrown around. I'm not entirely sure.
I'd have to go back and like really listening closely.

Speaker 3 (01:13:26):
Other characters' size is commented on by different people, but
I don't know if any of it's specifically directed. Although
the kid really says something like you're thick something, I
don't know if that counts.

Speaker 5 (01:13:39):
Patriarchy the child, so then we'll be like, God, damn it,
patriarchy the child.

Speaker 4 (01:13:46):
But yeah, technically, yeah, that would be.

Speaker 5 (01:13:48):
So we're you know, back down to too. And the
point of that too, because I know people will ask.
The point of that too is to make you know,
fat is not a dirty word. It been made word
because of people, obie, but you know it's fat is
a neutral descriptor.

Speaker 4 (01:14:03):
It's like saying short, skinny, whatever.

Speaker 5 (01:14:06):
It's just people's own biases have been attached to it. Absolutely,
So then we have must not easily be dismissed as
a common sapphobic and or colors trope. Like we mentioned
with the cat test, Gina doesn't really have that issue
because she's like a three dimensional being. You know, I
do want to make it clear that tropes are not
hearingly bad. But if your character literally is like four

tropes in a trench coat, Danny, you've got some problems,
not some problems like you're in but you definitely are
not a great writer.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
Like where's the character? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:14:38):
Yeah, like what are we doing? So now next one?

Speaker 5 (01:14:41):
Six should have at least one romantic interest if it's
relevant to the piece of media's or raw Drey two.
So man for Joe's hot ass is there and you know,
like we commented on, he is a nice little treat,
not the main course.

Speaker 4 (01:14:57):
We love that for her.

Speaker 3 (01:14:59):
A lot of movies that do afford a fat character
a love interest, they are paired with another fat person,
as if to say, oh, only fat people would be
attracted to other fat people and never any other combination.
And the Joe character is a muscular sin man who

is very attracted to Queen Latifah. And it was a
refreshing thing to see.

Speaker 5 (01:15:25):
Yeah, and I want to add here that Sidney particular
one to make sure that it should be noted that
you know, since we're thinking about like being sex inclusive
and gender exclusive, right, there are people that aren't interested
in romance or they're there asexual. But you know, we
also put it after like being like you know, but
you have to be careful with that because again you

might fall into that territory of black tropes where we're
talking about like the Mammy or someone else, some other
female character whose they are sexless. Right, So it's a
really delicate like dance. Now, if you're a good writer,
you should be fine, but as we know, it's a
lot of bad writers out there. So yeah, so next
must have at least one interaction with you know, the
fat person. I would say, every woman in that film

has you know, various body shapes, so she does at
some point interact with them. You know, there's our Tavius Spencer.
I would even add the radio host, you know. And
it's not a thing where it's like, oh my god,
look they're interacting.

Speaker 4 (01:16:23):
It's just very.

Speaker 3 (01:16:24):
Normal, normalized. Yeah, she talks to Sherry Shepherd.

Speaker 5 (01:16:28):
Again, bonus point if they're not related, which they aren't.
You know, they're kicking it, but they're not related, So
then we have it must not.

Speaker 4 (01:16:37):
Be subject to photicization.

Speaker 5 (01:16:39):
So that's a little difficult with JJ being there unfortunately,
so we can't give this point it's not her fault,
it's fault.

Speaker 4 (01:16:48):
It's Oh but you know, he dire.

Speaker 5 (01:16:51):
If we were to subtract him, she would have been
fine because, like I said, it's not all that for
her to literally focus on her very important goal of
being like, you know, a business woman.

Speaker 4 (01:17:02):
Right, So there's that nine.

Speaker 5 (01:17:05):
Must show no high profixations when it comes to food
and or exercise. This one was been very important to
me and Sid because there's a lot of media out there.
If you know, if a fat woman gets lucky enough
to like leave a show or film, there's some big
like marathon she's training for.

Speaker 4 (01:17:26):
Yes, yes, yes, it's really bad, Like there's some big.

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
There's whole movies about that. Oh my god.

Speaker 5 (01:17:32):
Yeah, even happened to Kelly at one point where she
was like trying to train for something, and I was like.

Speaker 4 (01:17:37):
Do y'all see how see like, wem not the only
one who sees this.

Speaker 5 (01:17:42):
I'm the only one, okay, but yeah, No, we were
very much sick of that. I was like, I don't
want to hear nothing about no fucking marathon, no exercise,
no gym, didn't.

Speaker 4 (01:17:51):
No gym that I don't want to hear by no
fucking food.

Speaker 2 (01:17:54):
Just be normal person.

Speaker 5 (01:17:57):
Yeah. Now, obviously you know life's come for then you know,
people can also do with some things, like you know,
eds when it comes to food, right, But like a
lot of times that's not what they're talking about.

Speaker 4 (01:18:07):
A lot of these riders are just going straight to
like gluttonous tar you know, very.

Speaker 3 (01:18:11):
Like the stereotypes.

Speaker 4 (01:18:13):
Yeah, territory. And I'm like, but so you just not
you're not really serious.

Speaker 3 (01:18:18):
Yeah, you gave this no thought. You just took what
you already think, you know, and then put it in
the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:18:25):
And again it feels like the sort of situation where
if the nuance is there, you can feel it, and
it is most often not not there.

Speaker 5 (01:18:33):
Yeah, so there's that's so obviously Gina is not once
again not conserved that shit.

Speaker 4 (01:18:39):
Nope, just to run her.

Speaker 5 (01:18:41):
Business, so she good, dear ten must have access to
adequate soling. Even though we all feel ways about early
two thousand sactions for the times she looked good for that, Yes,
in the context of two thousand and five she looked.

Speaker 2 (01:18:59):
Just have to remember that it was a moment in time.

Speaker 5 (01:19:02):
Yeah, you know, for the time period she was in
the fashions.

Speaker 4 (01:19:07):
So now I would have been like girl, what do
you have one? But currently I mean not curently at
the time.

Speaker 5 (01:19:15):
Great, right, so she was fine, must have at least
one supportive parents slash frontal figure.

Speaker 4 (01:19:21):
She did.

Speaker 5 (01:19:21):
Actually it was a little hard on Darnall or whatever
Latin for obviously too, because Darnell did need to get
her shit together.

Speaker 4 (01:19:28):
I'm like, why do you run around with these no
good black girl get it together?

Speaker 5 (01:19:33):
But you know, yeah, she did have a supportive parent
slash frontal figure.

Speaker 4 (01:19:38):
I forget forget her name, but.

Speaker 8 (01:19:39):
You know, yeah her mother in law, right, yes, yeah,
so really just encouraging her to keep pursuing her dreams
despite the obvious and you know, systemic obstacles that were
placed in front of her.

Speaker 4 (01:19:54):
Right. So, yeah, passes.

Speaker 5 (01:19:57):
So we got the last one, which must have at
least five to ten minutes of dialogue in the standard
thirty minute episode, ten to fifteen minutes of dialogue in
the standard sixty minute episode, and at least the fourth
of the total.

Speaker 4 (01:20:11):
Run time of the film.

Speaker 5 (01:20:12):
I remember people ask the first of all, I suly
she passes, right, but yeah, people usually ask me about
that and SID two and they're like, why.

Speaker 4 (01:20:22):
Did you feel the need to include that in particular
because it's very specific.

Speaker 5 (01:20:26):
Right, the contest doesn't mention no run times or dialogue
or things like that, right, But for here it was
important because mainly because of Cat in the first season Euphoria,
she has her own very rich, if not mildly disturbing arc.
You know, keep one hundred because it was moldly disturbing.
But I was like, you know, but it was an arc. Yes,

fat people don't have to be perfect angelic character as
we'd be doing some fucked up shit too.

Speaker 4 (01:20:51):
Right, So very very strong, obvious, rich arc.

Speaker 5 (01:20:57):
And we get to season two and if she gets
to talk for two minutes in an episode, it's a
big deal.

Speaker 4 (01:21:05):
Like that's how sharp and ugly the drop off was.

Speaker 5 (01:21:09):
You know, there are rumors that you know, Sam was
beefing with her behind the scenes. Obviously I try to
respect her because you know, it's complex with actors and
these really weird producers and show runs and directors, and
you know, they still got to work, so I respect them,
not really if they won don't want to put their
business on front street, I respect that.

Speaker 4 (01:21:27):
But you know, it's very.

Speaker 5 (01:21:28):
Clear that some funck shit was going on because it
impacted how often she showed up and how long she
showed up. She had no discernible arc that whole season,
no discernible arc at all.

Speaker 4 (01:21:40):
It was very yarn.

Speaker 5 (01:21:42):
Because like when she was one of my favorite reasons
for the first season, like I tune, I was like, Okay,
what's Kat doing?

Speaker 4 (01:21:49):
Is she being the anti fat friend again?

Speaker 5 (01:21:51):
I love that for me, Like I remember part of
the show where you know Maddie, you know, then her
friend cast her to event and Cat is just like
basically like they don't have toportizations.

Speaker 4 (01:22:05):
And I was like, finally a bad fat friend.

Speaker 5 (01:22:10):
I've waited so long for this and finally I got it.

Speaker 4 (01:22:14):
Yes, terrible love that for herself. Please more.

Speaker 5 (01:22:19):
Yeah, but that's where that last one comes from, like
the very sharp, ugly decline of her screen presence. So
obviously here Gena passes a Flying Colors because she is
the main character. There, you know, other characters, you know, tertiary, secondary,
but she's the main character.

Speaker 4 (01:22:36):
So she passes. So let me, let's count it up.
Let's count it up. Drum dram bro nine ten So.

Speaker 7 (01:22:44):
We got ten, ten out of twelve or ten out
of twelve, very hearty pass right, So obviously we got
again zero to twelve.

Speaker 4 (01:22:56):
So zero to one is reprehensible.

Speaker 5 (01:23:00):
We're like, reprehensible, get this ship off my screen, like what?
So then we got two to four. We call it
laughable because you know, attempt was made.

Speaker 4 (01:23:10):
Was it a good one?

Speaker 1 (01:23:11):

Speaker 5 (01:23:11):

Speaker 4 (01:23:13):
Is there hope for you? Maybe I don't know you.

Speaker 5 (01:23:18):
Then we got five to seven. We called it passable.
We're like, hey, this guy has some good bones. You're
not like one hundred terrible. You do need to work
on yourself. You to have a come to juice moment,
a bunch of bises about fat people.

Speaker 1 (01:23:33):

Speaker 5 (01:23:34):
Then we have eight to ten, which is you know
where you shop would fall. It's credible, you did a
lot of work. It looks good. You know, there were
just some some minor points you couldn't get over unfortunately,
And like we talked about in this movie, technically, Gina
the character is not a fault for the lost points.
It's like of the people around her that get abducted.

And that's sometimes how life is. Like you do everything
right if somebody go along and kind of like true,
So yeah, good, she's good, Like the.

Speaker 4 (01:24:05):
Film was good.

Speaker 5 (01:24:06):
And then obviously we have eleven to twelve, which highest
which we call marvelous, like perfect.

Speaker 4 (01:24:11):
Ten out of ten, no notes.

Speaker 5 (01:24:13):
I don't know if there is a movie out there
that could score twelve. I would really have to get
with sin and be like, do we think there's something
out there that can do it?

Speaker 4 (01:24:25):
I don't know. I think the highest we will to
me get if.

Speaker 5 (01:24:30):
We look at I guess currently existing media would probably
be like the ten.

Speaker 4 (01:24:36):
Maybe maybe eleven. Maybe on a good day. I don't
know who was seen your twelve, but I could be wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:24:42):
I feel like this movie would have gotten to twelve
were it not for the little JJ character.

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
I know, we really and we're coming down hard on him, but.

Speaker 3 (01:24:52):
Look, but look, he made some choices.

Speaker 2 (01:24:55):
He was holding us back lots of points.

Speaker 3 (01:24:59):
Well, I think brings us to our nipple scale, a
metric of our very own that is, you know, really
prestigious and really well thought out and carefully named and
all that important stuff. But we rate the movie on
a scale of zero to five nipples based on examining

the movie through an intersectional feminist lens. So even though
we've talked about some of the pretty dated things that
the movie does here and they're considering it fares so
well on both of your tests, Clarkisha, I'm inclined to
give it like a four four nipples. I'll dock it

for the stuff that we talked about, such as like
the lack of critical thinking when it came to Lynn's arc,
and like how she ultimately is represented in the movie,
and a few other things like that. But at the
end of the day, this is a movie about a
black woman getting out from under the oppressive force that
it is her white boss, and opening up her own

shop and having her own autonomy and financial independence, and
employing mostly black women and having camaraderie with them, and
being a really good boss and a good mother and
just a good friend all around. And it's stuff that
we so seldom see in mainstream movies. So it was
very refreshing to see all of that. So I'm gonna

land on four nipples, and I'll split them between Queen Latifah.
I'll give one to Sherry Shepherd because I enjoy her
very much. I will give one to Alfree Wodard of course,
and you know what, Golden Brooks gets my last one.

Speaker 2 (01:26:48):
Hell yeah, I'll go for I want to go four
and a half because it's so much fun. I don't know.
I don't know. I'm gonna go four point two five
just to be in an argument with my self for
no reason. But now I think this movie is so
the fact that, I mean, building on what we've been
talking about, what you just said, Katelyn, the fact that

this movie tackles so much and it is still a comedy.
It is like, it addresses a lot of systemic racism,
it addresses misogyny and misogyn wire specifically, and it is
still very much a comedy and it's an ensemble cod
It's just like all of these things that I miss

in movies so much and is a really good case
study for how much a comedy is equipped to handle,
like and I think that there is. We're just sort
of starting to get back to movies like that, and
I really really hope we keep getting them, especially movies
like this that we have a nearly all the cast
of all black women, And it's just I don't know,

I feel like sometimes you hear critics talk like this
is not possible, and it's like, well, but but it
happened almost twenty years ago, and it happened before it's
happened since, Like I would love movies like beauty Shop
to be really and fully back, you know, docking the movie,
like we've talked about for the regressive stereotypes or of
the time, mostly docking for the homophobia and a little

bit of the body politics this movie has. But it
is kind of like it just speaks to like the
power of Queen Latifa that none of these stereotypes touch her.
They sometimes touch other characters, but Queen Latifa is just
like she is such a star, like she produces her
own work. I also want to hand it to this
movie for having a pretty diverse team behind the camera,

which we don't often have. Yeah, we have a black director,
we have you know, the Kate Lanier of it all.
You can listen to our set it Off episode or
or more on that. But Norman's advanced junior is still
a very successful working TV writer today. You know, I
think that it would have been meaningful and would make
a lot of sense for this movie to have had

a black woman in a rectorial role because we still
so rarely have that, especially you know, movies with big
budgets or you know, this movie has had twenty five
million dollar budget, big for a comedy of the time.
But there's just so much to love about this movie.
It made me excited to watch it again next time.
It's such a comfort movie. And yeah, so I'm going

to go four point two five nipples. I might just
go for I don't know, four point two five. Sure
to give one to Queen Latifah. I'm going to give
one to Alfred Woodard one to Vanessa because I really
loved her, and it's so hard to have a child
prodigy not make me deeply annoyed. So good for her.

Speaker 3 (01:29:45):
She was really playing that piano. They weren't faking it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:48):
She was really playing. I know, I love. Yeah, there
was no cutback to like clearly adult arms or like
James Cameron's hands drawing. Any had to get in there.

Speaker 3 (01:29:59):
I had to get another t Titanic reference in there.

Speaker 2 (01:30:01):
You sorry? And then the rest goes to to Sherry
Shepherd and the fictional little Greg she was carrying. Oh yes,
of course, what would you rate this movie?

Speaker 4 (01:30:12):
I'll definitely give you like four point five. You know,
I usually create either like an whole or half that
I'm terrible. Then i'll really be petty.

Speaker 5 (01:30:21):
I'll be like it was a zero point one eight too,
Like I'll just be making up, like because I hate
your movies.

Speaker 4 (01:30:30):
Yeah, but yeah, So definitely four point five. I would
say the half would go to the radio. I forget,
but I thank you. Oh yeah, because I appreciate her.

Speaker 5 (01:30:42):
I appreciate on people in powerful positions, pull people on
because that's what we're supposed to Tony and Morris's birthday
was just yesterday.

Speaker 4 (01:30:50):
I love her down. It's one of my favorite authors.

Speaker 5 (01:30:51):
And she has this quote and accusly on paraphrazing, but
in the course she basically talks about, you know, when
you get to these fancy jobs, get to these positions
you always manifested or prayed for, you need to make
sure you hold the door open for somebody else, or
you said someone else up, or you put someone else
else on otherwise, if you know what was is four
So I love that Helen did that. She was like, hey,
she did me solid. I'm gonna return to favor Now.

Obviously she she's not in most of the movie, just
those small parts, but you know, she changes Gena's life
by doing that. So I'm like, you getta do a
twenty five girl. Definitely giving one to Gina. She's a superstar.
So I would give the second one to I would
say halfrey Wood's character too. I just love when she

puts out into the the phenomenal woman.

Speaker 2 (01:31:40):
That's I think it's like three different times.

Speaker 4 (01:31:42):
It's great.

Speaker 5 (01:31:44):
I love that for her. I would give it to
once again Vanessa.

Speaker 4 (01:31:49):
She's so fun.

Speaker 5 (01:31:50):
She's also so like quick, very witty, like when she
puts Jaj in his place is.

Speaker 4 (01:31:55):
Very like, oh bam, and they didn't linger. She's just like, hey,
I don't know the fuck with you, You're not right.

Speaker 5 (01:32:01):
And then it's not this big moment of like, look, hey,
I'm rejecting patriarchy. The kid like no, she's just like, hey,
I've seen how you interact with other people.

Speaker 4 (01:32:11):
I don't like you.

Speaker 2 (01:32:12):
I've got a parent trap to take care of every hair.

Speaker 4 (01:32:14):
I don't have to like I'm not.

Speaker 5 (01:32:17):
So that'll be three. So the last one I'm gonna
lean Sherry, gonna lean Sherry. You know she does a lot,
but you know, I do love that. You know, she's
just this pregnant woman who's very like sex positive, very
fucking funny. She and then her names that she wants
to name her children is just fucking ridiculous, but you

just gotta go along with it.

Speaker 4 (01:32:40):
Because that's her right. I wouldn't give it to Goldie,
but like, her character is very.

Speaker 5 (01:32:44):
Grating in terms of like some of the you know,
regressive politics that we talked about the show. And even
though I don't like meanness of already in this movie,
like her hyperfixation on her titties is very weird to
me because I'm just like, listen, they look good, like
fuck her, but day look look.

Speaker 2 (01:32:59):
At one in a hand mirror in one shot.

Speaker 4 (01:33:02):
I was like, you had for the time, right, because
we know how some of those how bad something they
can go wrong?

Speaker 5 (01:33:11):
Yeah, yeah, you know a little watch, there's a whole
thing around them. I'm sure y'all remember. But yeah, we
give it to Sherry. She's so funny and she's so sweet.

Speaker 3 (01:33:20):
There's a fun little anecdote. I was watching a couple
of videos where Queen Lativa and Cherry Shepherd are talking
either on a Queen Lativa show or on Cherry Shepherd Show,
but anyway, they're recounting this story about how Sherry was
doing a scene that the producers wanted to cut because
they deemed it too silly, and it was a scene

between her and Alfrey Woodard and she's like, well, allfree
Woodard isn't silly. I'm the silly one, so clearly, like
it's me and my performance that they don't like. And
then so she was like feeling really bad about it,
and you know, didn't want the scene to be cut,
but it wasn't up to her. And then Queen Latifa
like knocks on her trailer door to be like, do
you do the scene the way you want to do it, like,

don't suppress any silliness, like be the performer you want
to be, and I'll fight for this scene to stay
in the movie. And they did and it worked out,
and Sherry Shepherd was forever grateful about it. I don't
know specifically what scene they were talking about, but yeah,
well I'm not totally sure.

Speaker 2 (01:34:24):
It's a comedy. There's no such thing.

Speaker 3 (01:34:26):
Right exactly. I'm like, why wouldn't you leave a silly
scene in a comedy? But anyways, so yeah, it was
just like this moment of Queen Latifa lifting her up
and supporting her creative vision and it was really sweet.

Speaker 2 (01:34:40):
Love it. And that's the power of being a producer too,
is you can advocate for your co stars in a
way that the other producers aren't going to do.

Speaker 3 (01:34:49):
Yeah, well, Clark Kisha, thank you so much for joining us.
It was such a treat.

Speaker 2 (01:34:54):
This was so fun.

Speaker 3 (01:34:55):
Come back anytime for any movie.

Speaker 4 (01:34:58):
Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (01:35:00):
Where can people check out your work you're writing, follow
you on social media, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (01:35:05):
Read your book?

Speaker 5 (01:35:07):
Oh thank you so, my book Off on a Big
Bitch Manifesto is out. Obviously, I prefer you buy from
the famous press website, which is who published it. You know,
you can get it Barne's novel on Amazon Books a million,
you get mostly anywhere. Also, support your local library if
you're in a position where you can online my book.

That is okay, girl, I get it. We in a
super recession, all right. But make sure you support your
local library because they will have it, whether it's the
hard copy or an e book, or they have like
the audiobooks.

Speaker 4 (01:35:41):
I did do that too, They will have it.

Speaker 5 (01:35:43):
Support your local library, get a library card, make sure
they don't get shut down. It is one of our
final third spaces. People get complaining about third spaces disappearing.
That's one and she needs all help. She's on her
last live, especially the New York Yes, so there's that.

Speaker 3 (01:36:00):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 5 (01:36:00):
Yeah, there's also you can find me on you know, Twitter,
which is Twitter. I'm not gonna ever call it x
no so Twitter, I'm so you know at Ironald Date Underscore.
I go back and forth and from Keith the account,
so we don't see it really depends, you know, Instagram
at Clarkisha Kent, and then I'm on High Social too.

Speaker 4 (01:36:20):
I haven't been there a little bit, but yeah, I'm
on there also with Clarkisha Kent.

Speaker 5 (01:36:25):
My website is currently down for construction right now because
I got to move some stuff around, but you usually
can find.

Speaker 4 (01:36:31):
Me there as well. Www dot clarkishcampt.

Speaker 3 (01:36:34):

Speaker 2 (01:36:35):
Thank you so much for joining us today. This has
like truly been years in the making. We're really happy
you're here. Yes, you can find us all over the
place at Twitter, Instagram, at Bechdelcast, you can follow our
Patreon aka Matreon. Five dollars a month gets you two
bonus episodes a month and access to over one hundred

and fifty episodes of back catalog. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:37:00):
You can also go to our link tree link tree
slash Bechdel Cast, where you will find tickets to oh,
I don't know an upcoming tour we're doing in the UK,
and it's not just any tour, it's the Shrek Tannic Tour,
where we are covering either Titanic or Shrek, the most
important movies of our age. And you can get those

tickets and we'll see you there. And then our merch
is at teapublic dot com slash the Bechdel Cast. And
with that, should we all go to the beauty shop
and get our hair done.

Speaker 6 (01:37:35):
Li'st it okay, Bye bye.

Speaker 3 (01:37:42):
The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by
Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited
by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike
Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Voss Grossenski. Our logo and
merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thing
to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please

visit linktree Slash Bechtelcast

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