Bound with Vanessa Guerrero

Caitlin, Jamie, and special guest Vanessa Guerrero plan a mob heist while kissing each other and discussing Bound. 

(This episode contains spoilers)

For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.

Follow @nessguerrero on Twitter. While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP.

 

Here's the interview we mentioned, "Jennifer Tilly and Gina Gershon revisit their lesbian neo-noir Bound" - https://ew.com/movies/2019/06/06/jennifer-tilly-gina-gershon-revisit-lesbian-neo-noir-bound/
And Caitlin was an extra in Season 10 Episode 11, entitled "Stranger," of Law and Order: SVU 

 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the beck Del Cast, the questions asked if movies
have women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends
and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef
invest start changing it with the beck Del cass Oh, Jamie,
I dropped my earring down the sink. Can you reach

(00:21):
into my drain and get it out? Um? Yes, I'm
assuming that's why you hired me to come here, is
to remove things from your drain? Is that correct? Yeah?
And if you need to keep reaching into my drain

(00:43):
over and over? Would you like to have sex? Is
that what you're saying? Because these metaphors are getting exhausting
for me. Gina Gershawn Yeah, And Emmy Jennifer Tilly, Oh
my god, Jennifer, I get it. Okay, let's have sex.
I would like to fuck I've created Wow. Oh that

(01:09):
is actually an iconic Jennifer Tilly impression. Congratulation. I felt
like I wasn't doing a very good job, but thank you.
I felt like you captured the spirit. Thank you. Thanks.
I think it was great. Um well, I think that
was our best introid truly, many moods, years years, years years.

(01:29):
Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus.
My name is Caitlin Dronte, and this is our podcast
where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using
the Bechdel Test simply as a jumping off point to
initiate a larger conversation. The Bechtel Test being a media
metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel, sometimes called the

(01:51):
Bechtel Wallace test, in which our version requires that two
people of a marginalized gender have names, they speak to
each other, and their conversation has to be about something
other than a man for like a two or more
line exchange of dialogue, and hopefully that conversation is narratively impactful.
Right this is I mean, first of all, you really

(02:15):
took control of the intro there, and I really thought
it was powerful and exciting. Thank you, Jennifer. And yeah,
and in the case of this movie, I really don't
think we're going to be having many issues as it
pertains to the Bechtel test. However, we have a great

(02:36):
conversation ahead because today we are covering the Wachowski Sisters
classic There I believe their first first feature together. Yeah, Bound,
starring impressionized incredibly by Caitlin and myself, Jennifer Tilly and

(02:56):
Gina Gershawn, as well as Joey and pants Um Angst
a couple of other people. Christopher Maloney is in the
Damn Movie. Christopher Maloney is in the Damn Movie. And
that's a really good point. Um, thank you. We have
we we have so recovering bound and we have an
incredible returning guest who I believe in text in our

(03:18):
last episode, wanted to cover this movie. Absolutely. Yes, I
think I might have been I might have immolated myself
if it didn't happen. Um. I love this movie so
much with every pore of my being, and I've wanted
a reason to like talk about it. Well, but here

(03:38):
is here, and let's introduce you properly. Our guest today
is a comedian and host of the Kicking and Screaming podcast.
You remember her from our episodes on Maid in Manhattan,
Raw and Atomic Blonde. It's Vanessa Guerrero. Hello, thank you
so much for having me back. I love that this

(03:59):
all star arted with the rom com episode in which
uh I had a four logo because Jamie had one,
and then I got drunker than I've ever been in
my whole life. I clearly well, I wouldn't say I
clearly remember that. I definitely remember that. I just remember, like, oh, Ship,

(04:22):
even like um, hearing the list of movies you've covered
with us in the past is such a delight because
it really just we've covered so much ground and we're
only expanding upon that ground today with Bound. Oh my gosh, Bound,
What is your relationship your history with the film Bound? Vanessa. So,

(04:43):
there were like a couple of movies that I would
see on i f C really late night as a
kid that were like, oh my god, this is horny
and gay, and this is very much like awakening something
in me in ways that I can't quite unpack yet.
Their mine, and it was like this and and I'm
a cheerleader. It was it was usually like one or

(05:03):
the other. And Bound blew my mind because it took
the shape of so many things that I like and
I had seen before, Like it took every neo noir
Marlon Brando ass like someone in a tank top brooding
in dark alleys that I've seen a million times, but
put it into this like almost comic book perspective that

(05:26):
just so happened to start two of the hottest women
I've ever seen. Truly, I did that thing where when
you want someone you try and take on their personality,
So I was constantly swinging in between like hyper fem
and mask presentations. Bound definitely like. I experienced a lot
of like euphoria with this movie, and it made me

(05:47):
love the witch Howski so much that I watched everything
that they had ever made except for The Matrix because
I was scared that it wouldn't live up to it.
And I didn't watch The Matrix until I was like,
I love it. I love it. I saw twell times
in one week. I mean people watched it later, some
people watched it later than that. That's all I'll say.

(06:09):
I love all of that. Jamie, what's your relationship with Bound? Um?
I didn't think I had much of a relationship with it,
And then as I was so, I had not seen
this movie in full before until preparing for this episode, however,
I realized as I was watching it that it's so

(06:30):
funny that you mentioned I f C and I'm assuming
the like latesh Odds Vanessa, because I think I've mentioned
this on the show before. My dad was like, a
big time, like when he was done with work for
the night and like the rest of the family was asleep,
he would watch I f C movies like no one's business.
And sometimes if you walk into your parents watching an

(06:54):
I f C late night movie, it's uncomfortable. And so
I do remember clearly one night in a movie that
I now realized was bound um walking downstairs, passing my
dad at the TV to get to the kitchen to
get a glass of water and being like, Michael, what
are you watching because it was a scene of Gina

(07:18):
Kershawn and Jennifer Tilly making sweet love to each other,
and he was like, it's an i f C movie. Relax,
because Michaelofts is the king of punk and always has been,
always will be. But I remember at the time being
scandalized by what my father was watching on probably a Tuesday.

(07:38):
And then as I was watching this movie that I
really I've now watched three times and I've really really
come to like I can't wait to talk about it
because it's so fucking good and like not only like
incredible for its time, but incredible for like right now
watching it today shows so much about like what's to
come in the witch Howski sister filmography, like, it just

(08:01):
is so good. But also I saw my dad watching
it in high school and I was like, oh, um,
that's my whole history with it. I love it. I'm
excited to talk about it. Caitlin, what's your history with
this movie. I had never seen any part of this movie,
not not even on the Tuesday No, but it was

(08:22):
on my It's been on my radar forever. It's been
on my list of things to watch forever. I just
had not gotten around to it. So this episode was
the perfect excuse. I've seen it, I think four times
now in the past like two weeks. This movie fucking rules.
Like I am sad that I slept on it for
so long, but yeah, I'm so excited to talk about it.

(08:44):
I kind of don't have a bad thing to say
about it. It's all good stuff, perfect, It's kind of
a perfect movie. Should I recap it? Yeah, let's recap it?
Why not? Oh? Sorry, I was just trying to figure
out there's a character played by Kevin M. Richardson. He's
only credited as Cop Number two, but I immediately recognized

(09:06):
his voice and I was like, Oh my god, who
is this man? Who is this man. So he is
the cop that is peeing in the toilet while there's blood,
while there's a guy and dead in the tub, and
his voice like I don't know, I just I'm such
like I'm so animation filled them, like I know this
man's voice. It turns out he is an iconic voice actor,

(09:30):
and he plays a character in Delilo and Stitch franchise
named Captain Gone to God. That's why his voice was
familiar to me. He's been in a timing. You could
recognize his voice from any you know, wild amount of things.
But I definitely was like, oh yeah, and then he
was like in subsequently Low and Stitch stuff. I'm like, okay,

(09:52):
I feel so much better. It's such a relief when
you hear someone's voice and then you can connect it
to a cartoon character for whatever reason, and oh yeah,
my brand's like oh cool, they're really get around them
in reality. Right, You're like, that is Captain Gontu, isn't it? Anyways? Okay,
the movie bound, sorry movie bound here here it comes. Okay,

(10:13):
So Violet, that's Jennifer Tilly and her husband, her husband
or maybe boyfriend. I don't know if they're married or
just like partnered. Um, yeah, I don't put them in
a box. I'm so sorry. This toxic relationship could be anything,
could be anything. You're right, it's like a symbiotic toxic relation. Well,
one way someone surviving and then the other person is

(10:34):
a piece of ship. It's almost as if she's kind
of like bound to him, but not because she wants
to be. Yes, there's so much binding in this movie.
Sexy and otherwise. His name is Caesar. That's Joe Pantaliano
a k. Joey Pants. They get into an elevator with

(10:56):
Corky that's Gina Gershawn, Violent and cork He make eyes
at each other. Then Violet and Caesar go into their
condo while Quirky goes into the unit next door. She's
there to do repairs and fix up the place. Also
a quick shout out to the score of this movie

(11:18):
by someone named Don Davis, because any time, any time
Quirky and Violet are in an enclosed space together, it's well,
in the elevator, it's something like brown brown, brown, like
it's like a very like it's very nineties sexy music. Yeah,
it's like making out in the rain to like an

(11:40):
m and s song Horny is Horny. I appreciate it
and like, no need to play subtle here. The score
was written by Don Davis. As you said, he also
wrote the score for The Matrix, and you can there's
a lot of similarities between When like I was watching
Bound and I was like, oh my gosh, this sounds

(12:00):
very similar to the score of The Matrix. I agree,
and and okay, one word Don Davis fact and then
we will turn. So I feel like this TV series
that only I have seen has come up an absurd
amount of times on this show. Is that The Beauty
and the Beast. Yes, it's the Ron Perlman at the
Ron Perlman Linda Hamilton's Beauty and the Beast series. He

(12:24):
also scored that. And you can also hear that. You
can hear the echoes the foundation of the Bound soundtrack.
I feel like, if we ever end up covering Boundry
on this show, the Bound track, if you will, if
you if we ever end up covering TV shows Linda
Hamilton's Ron Perlman Beauty and the Beast, it's cannon. It's

(12:46):
just like, if not good at least funny, what if
we pivot for like a few months and just do
a spin off series and just cover that. Also, Don
Davis did music on recent covered movie Casper. Oh my god,
the music, and that makes me think, like it's fall right.
It's like so he sometimes is like riding on James

(13:09):
Horner's pegs, if you will to put this in the
middle schools, like he sometimes is the assistant to James Horner. So,
you know, shout out to Don Davis for giving us
a sexy elevator. Um upright, bass pluck vibe. I appreciated it.
Love it, love it. Um Okay. So Quirky and Violet
have encountered each other in the elevator. Then Violet comes

(13:33):
over to the unit quirkies in and introduces herself to Quirky,
brings her a cup of coffee. They chat it is
very horny and seductive. I assumed you light it like
I assumed you light to coffee black good. Yes, you're like.
And then she's like, it's so cool that you can
fix things, but these walls are so thin, so could

(13:56):
you just wait a while until you start using your
tools because I'm a night person. They're both just like
a lot of skirls and silver, like, oh my god,
yes that is very much their vibe where it's like,
I like these women. I don't know if I could
hang out with them. I'm threatened by them. I am
deeply inpredated by them. I think they would hate me.

(14:20):
I think they would absolutely hate me, but I admire
them from a disk. I would be sitting across the
bar from them, like, Wow, how cool. And then they
will not be there here right thrilled for them not
going to uh, you know, roll the diason whether they
would want to talk to me or not. They don't. Hey,

(14:41):
you never know. But Corny Corky is playing it cool
and she's just like, yeah, whatever, I'll hold off on
using my drain snake or whatever. And then she's like,
by the way, I drive a truck, and I talked
about her truck for a while. Then Corky goes to
a lesbian bar. We learned that she is an ex

(15:03):
con who recently spent five years in prison. She's a
professional thief. Then Quirky goes over to Violet's place to
fish out a piece of jewelry that Violet accidentally quote
unquote dropped down the sink. You can tell it wasn't
on purpose because of the upright bass music that continues

(15:24):
throughout the scene. Here's my brilliant observation about this. So
we just covered Imagine Me and You, and there's a
scene in that movie where one woman needs the help
of another woman to fish a piece of jewelry out
of a punch bowl, and that is the catalyst to

(15:44):
get them to like start getting to know each other
and eventually get together and kiss. And that's the same
thing that happens in this movie. Wait, Vanessa, you've seen
Imagine Me and You? Yes. Um. Riley Silverman told me
to watch it one holiday when I that there isn't
enough gay rom com um and she basically like live

(16:05):
texted me through it as I had my experience with
it the first time and lost my mind. Oh, I
was like in a Hallmark mood, and I was like,
I want something, Hallmark. I just want anybody other than
this like configuration that I always see kissing to kiss.
And I got it. It's almost like what I get
out of Bound, where it's like I want bulb, but

(16:26):
I want it. I want two girls to kiss in
like a sweet rom com me way. Yeah exactly. Yeah,
this truly is a cut I mean in the way
like imagine Me and You we recently covered on the show,
and it's such a blast, and like even more so
than that movie, I feel like Bound delivers on like

(16:46):
a great genre, like the mafia, haisty thriller kind of movie,
without any of the baggage that usually comes with that genre.
And so you can just watch it, yes and have
an amazing time, which is all I've ever wanted exactly. Okay,

(17:08):
So Quirky goes over to fish this piece of jewelry
out of the sink. Then Violet offers her a drink.
She's being very seductive again, and then she's like, by
the way, I'm trying to seduce you, and she puts
Quirky's hand between her legs and they start kissing. It's
getting very hot and steamy. But then Caesar comes home

(17:29):
and interrupts, but he doesn't see them, and they have
a quick conversation and we gather that Caesar is in
the mob. Then Violet goes to Quirky later that night
or sometime later, they kiss again. They go back to
Quirky's place and have sex, and boy do they they

(17:50):
have sex, and a continuous shot that sex scene was
choreographed by Susie Bright. Yes, yes, and it's so amazing
watching it even now in terms of like how how
I haven't quite seen anything like it, because even when
I see lesbian sex on cameras, it tends to always

(18:10):
have this like heteronormative angle of like being like, well,
this one does this, and this other one does this.
And I was watching it with a friend of mine
who is twenty five and she's a lesbian and she's
never seen this movie before. I hadn't even heard of it,
and she was like, I have never ever, not even
important see a fem be the one that's doing something

(18:32):
to the mask one, right, It's always presented in that
like very hetero sense of like, yeah, the mask is
always the one that tops, right, And so she had
never ever, not even imporn, like seen this perspective of
what is so much closer to like a common experience,
seeing someone at that age watching for the first time

(18:54):
and realized they still don't have something like that. Susie Bright,
Hang you yeah, we'll talk about that later. Susie Bright,
She's a legend. Yeah, that that scene in general, I like,
I feel like it true. It wasn't until the second
viewing that that even registered for me because it is
so effortless in the way the storytelling us. But you're like, yeah,
you never see a FM top, especially in like a

(19:18):
bigger movie, in the way that this was, Like, I
just was what a this movie like subverts so much
in a way that is so effortless that you don't
you may not even necessarily notice it on the first time,
because the first time I was just so thrilled to
see them fucking um that it took me to the
second viewing to be like, oh right, this was actually

(19:40):
like not the most obvious way that this scene would
be staged on the part of of Susie Bright and
the Witch Howskies like, it's just this movie is amazing,
It's great. Okay. So the next day Quirky sees this
guy named Shelley go into Violets condo and then Quirky,
here's the have sex through the walls. Then the next

(20:03):
time Quirky and Violet see each other, Quirky confronts Violet
about having sex with this guy with men in general
kind of calls her a fraud, but Violet is like,
that wasn't sex, that was work, And then they have
a kind of an argument slash discussion about it, and
then they part on kind of bad terms. Then Quirky

(20:24):
sees a handful of mobsters bring that guy Shelly into
Violet in Caesar's place. One of these mobsters is Johnny
a k a. Christopher Maloney. Another is this guy named Mickey,
and Caesar and the other mob boys start beating the
ship out of Shelly. What a wise guy types, Oh yeah,

(20:48):
Shelly apparently stole money from the mob boss, so they
start chopping his fingers off trying to get him to
tell them where the money is. Meanwhile, Violet goes to
Quirky and confides in her that she can't do this anymore.
She can't be with Caesar, she can't be around all
this violence. She wants out, She wants a new life,

(21:08):
and she needs Quirky's help to get out of this situation.
So they start to devise a plan. They are going
to steal the two million dollars that Shelley had stolen
from the mob boss, but Quirky isn't sure that she
can trust Violet not to set her up, but they
decided to trust each other and move forward with the plan,

(21:32):
which is so the mob boss Geno Marzoni is supposed
to come and pick up the money generic Italian name.
You're like yep yep ye. So he's supposed to come
and pick up the money from Caesar at his and
Violets condo along with his son, who is Johnny ak

(21:52):
Christopher Maloney, but Quirky is going to sneak in and
steal the money while Caesar is in the shower for
Gino and company show up, and then Violet is going
to convince Caesar that Johnny must have come in and
stolen the money when she goes out to buy scotch
because she like fake breaks this bottle of scotch. I

(22:15):
love that whole Like how many It's like not even
how many queer troops are like shattered in this movie.
It's just like film noir tropes in general, where it's like,
in so many scenes, Violet is playing the part of
like the typical like mobster's girlfriend who you see in
the background of scenes but never has any agency and
it's always like, oh no, what's happening, And like even

(22:38):
he is like Joey Pants is trying to cast her
in that role, but she will not be cast in
that role. Yeah, it reminded me of the scene where
I don't remember the guy's name, but in Double Indemnity,
when the guy was like, here's the plan. We're gonna
double indemnity his ass, and that's it happens. But then,

(23:02):
and in this movie, it's Quirky laying out this whole
carefully orchestrated plan. She's in control. It's so great. I
love it. So this plan should work with Violet convincing
Caesar that Johnny stole the money. It should work because
we learned that Johnny is kind of a loose cannon
and might do something wild like this, and that Johnny

(23:23):
and Caesar hate each other, so it would stand a
reason that Johnny would want to funk over Caesar. So
with Caesar convinced that Johnny screwed him over and took
the money, he will have no choice but to run
because otherwise Gino will kill him for stealing his money,
and then Caesar running will make him seem guilty, which

(23:45):
takes away any suspicion from Violet and Quirky being the culprits.
So the plan goes off without a hitch to start,
until Violet tries to get away from Caesar. He holds
her at gunpoint and won't let her leave because his

(24:05):
plan is when Gino and Johnny arrived to collect the money,
which is no longer there because Corky came in and
stole it, right, Caesar is now going to expose Johnny
as a thief to Gino by opening the case and
showing him that the money is gone. But when this
is happening, things escalate and Caesar ends up shooting and

(24:27):
killing Gino and Johnny and some third guy that's there.
I dkay, but he kills them. I guess kind of
forgetting that the third guy was there, And then every
time it cut back to the third guy, I was like, oh, oh,
there's another guy. Was he just like? Did he just
like hit the cutting room FLOORA? Unfortunately we don't. I
don't really know that man, but it really sucks what

(24:50):
happened to him, poor unnamed random mobster dude. So Caesar
kills all these people, and if he can get rid
of the bodies and get the money back, he can
pretend like this never happened, basically, But then the cops
show up and Violet has to stall them while Caesar

(25:12):
hides the bodies and cleans up all the blood. Meanwhile,
Quirky is waiting next door while all of this is happening.
She's listening through the walls and just kind of like
keeping an ear on things. Then Caesar takes Violet and
they go to Johnny's place to find the money, which
of course he can't because it's not there. So Caesar

(25:34):
realizes he has to dump the bodies and run. But
then Caesar catches Violet making a call to Quirky, and
he figures out that she's next door, and he realizes
that something fishy is going on, so he goes over
and kidnaps Quirky. He ties her up. She's bound, okay,

(25:57):
just like in the beginning of the mood just the
us the name of the movie hold on but but
also but also it's almost as if Violet and Quirky
are bound to each other in like a good way.
It makes you think. So Caesar is beating and threatening

(26:18):
Quirky and Violet. Quirky reveals that the money is next
door in bags, hidden in buckets of paint. Joey buckets
of paint, one could even say, um. Then Caesar has
that guy Mickey come over so that Caesar can convince
him that Gino and Johnny never showed up to buy
him some time or something. And then Mickey is about

(26:40):
to open the briefcase that is again full of newspapers now,
but Violet calls Caesar pretending to be Gino, feeding him
lines that Gino was in a car accident. So basically
she like saves his ass because she is trying to
make a deal with him where they split the money
and then walk away. Mickey leaves to go to the

(27:03):
hospital where he thinks Gino is and then Caesar goes
next door to get the money, leaving Violet a chance
to escape, so she's running away. Caesar is chasing after her. Meanwhile,
Quirky gets loose from her restraints and goes and grabs
the money. Caesar shows back up, there's a scuffle between

(27:24):
all of them, and then Violet shoots the ship out
of Caesar. He lands in the pain. And now I'm
back because it was like, it was honestly helpful for
you to like talk me through a lot of the
the mafia ins and out of that scene. Because I've
seen this movie three times now. At every single time,
I'm like, okay, okay, okay, okay. When are they going

(27:46):
to be back together. Like, I'm just sort of I
register that there are various guys, wise guys making various
negotiations and shooting and dying, and there's risk and there's tension.
But I'm like, okay, but or right, right, right, And

(28:08):
you're like, who is the third guy? I like, I
understand that there's filmmaking taking place in front of me,
but I am just sort of like, when are our
gals going? Yes again, we need the gals to get
unbound for me to really feel invested in the movie again,
and I trust that we will get there. But even

(28:29):
the first time watching it, I was like, Okay, I'm
not going to remember these characters names. I know everyone's
doing a great job, but I need some of these
men to die so that I can get to the
part that's interesting to me. Sure, so we're back. We're
back at the part that's interesting to me. And then
we get the big climax where Violet shoots Caesar. He
lands in the paint that's been spilled everywhere, his blood

(28:51):
is mixing with the paint. It's very cathartic, it's very metaphorical.
You're like, oh, the innocence, the color Okay, this is
based on several essays I've read. I did not get
here on my own. Oh the color o higher day.
Oh he's bleeding into her innocence and he never thought
and block. You know, there are many writers who contributed

(29:14):
to that intelligent comment I just made. I am not
one of them. But it was a metaphor. Apparently, this
is also how I had to figure out the matrix.
I'm like, there were a lot of metaphors in there
that were simply above my pay grade, and then when
I read them, I was like, huh, that makes sense. Yeah,
I know the christ One, and I think it was
above the christ one. I can't. Oh yeah, if we're

(29:34):
not on just a straightforward hero's journey, I am lost
in the woods, honey. And I can accept that about myself.
And look, not everyone on Redd. It's gonna like it,
and that's fine, um, but in this case, in this case,
it was like, Okay, Wichouski is way smarter than me.
I read it. It made sense to me, and I
was like, Okay, I get it. Metaphor, let's get yes.

(30:00):
And that's about to happen because Violet and Quirky run
off together. Quirky is like, hey, you know what the
differences between you and me? And Violets like no, and
Quirky is like me either, and then they kiss and
drive off and Quirkies nine Chevy truck the it and

(30:22):
we're like, hold on a second, did we just get
through a whole crime movie without burying a single gay? Unbelievable?
And soies, so many bodies, so many bodies, but they're
hetero bodies. And I just wanted to quickly shout out

(30:43):
before we go to our break, the tagline on the
original poster of this movie, which I think it is
so beautiful, Sex and Crime Forever. I mean literally me
shoplifting at the v as on the way to a
one night stand exactly. Yes, I get it. I am

(31:05):
also a part of this movement. Okay, let's go to break. Yes,
let's take a break. We'll come right back, and we
are back Sex and Crime forever? Am I right? Forever? Right?
Some of our greatest minds have said it, I might

(31:27):
some of our greatest minds ADD departments have said it.
I'm gonna get that tattooed on my body. Okay, Yes,
where shall we start? Oh man, there's so much, there's
so there's so much. I'll just start by saying, this
is one of the horny, ist, queerest, and most sex
positive movies I've ever seen in my entire life. So

(31:53):
have either of you seen sunse eight? No, it's on
my list, No I haven't. Haven't gotten to it. Sunset
is basically the Wachowski sisters doing this for several seasons
with as many different bodies as possible because they found
a way to do how do I make They did
a mind orgy. Um sounds like the sounds like them

(32:16):
like eight people connecting mentally, all having a mental line
orgy that all not at the same time. Sisters are very,
very horny, but also they love anime, they love a Kira,
they love ghost in Michell. So what you get is
this mix of like hyper stylized, gleeful sex scenes shot

(32:39):
like it's an action movie and makes me so happy.
Abound are the two properties in which they're just like,
everyone should be fucking. This is our message, this is
our credence. Everyone should be fucking. Oh and it works
and they do it so well because right this is like,
this is a very horny movie. It's a very queer movie,

(33:00):
it's a very sex positive movie, and it's also about
two women being absolutely badasses in a way that feels
extremely earned, in a way that fucking rules, in a
way that like, this is a movie about two queer women,
one who needs to get out of a toxic situation
she's trapped in because of a man, and they help

(33:20):
each other out and they trust each other and they
lift each other up and they run away together and
it's a happy, uplifting ending and fucking rocks. Something I
really love about this movie is how much they made
manipulation kind of like a one to you punch in
these women's tool belts in a way that isn't usually

(33:42):
viewed in a certain type of way in Hollywood. And
this isn't me going like manipulation good. But the thing
is when you live on the fringes of site, you
get very good at one thing, and that's looking at
society and figuring out how it works. And when you
don't have any power, that's kind of the thing that
you learn how to operate with. Like there's always that

(34:03):
quote that I was like, oh, well, if the man
is ahead of the household, the women over the neck.
But like they take this thing that was imposed on them,
and then that's the thing that they free themselves with.
And usually when manipulation is porderating women, it's like they're
going to be extra punished for this, like they're going
to be extra hurt for this, or like, no matter what,
even if they're escaping something, there's still a villain. And

(34:25):
in this it's like this is a skill that they
developed based on the positions that they were put in as,
like a sex worker and a lesbian. They know how
society works because they're constantly watching it from outside in
and hearing people operate, thinking that they're not listening. And
this is like the knife they cut through that with I.

(34:46):
It is like I speaking to like what what you're
It's like they're using societal like a an acute knowledge
of what society is like because they've been subjected to
so much to manipulate like what people expect from them,
and I feel like inviolate that comes and and the
fact that the Witch house Kies use that and also

(35:08):
are able to subvert so many specifically film noir tropes
in the process of doing that is so brilliant because
it's not just speaking to queer tropes of the nineties,
even though so many queer tropes of the nineties and
even now are I sound like a fucking radio station?
So many queer tropes of the nineties, auts and today

(35:30):
are subverted inside of this movie, but it's also like
done within the even more specific you know, It's like
with Violet, you have so many fem fatale tropes that
are subverted while also making commentary on how queer women
are perceived or or fem women specifically are perceived, And
then through Quirky, you have how butch women are perceived,

(35:52):
where immediately when Joey Pants comes in, he does not
perceive Quirky as the threat to his relationship that she
very much is. And all of these like ways that
Quirky and Violet are able to turn people's assumptions about
them that are based in either you know, bigotry or

(36:15):
naivete or somewhere in between. They're able to just levy
it against them to get what they want, which is
essentially liberation from this entire situation, and then they win.
It's just it's awesome, Yeah, And the subversions come from
like everywhere, because like you even have Quirky fucking up

(36:37):
at a certain point when it comes to like Violet
sex work, and like she gets a little bit like,
you know, sullen about it and implies, you know that
Violet might like have her like heart into her in
some way, and Violet very much applying like you have
a job and so do I, and like you don't
get to act holier than that with me about this.

(36:58):
And I love that moment was even there and that
they had that moment together. To her, Violet could like
very safely and tell someone like you don't understand what
this is about, and you're talking out of your ass
right now. And the fact that Quirky is able to
like receive that criticism and course correct too, because that's
something that I feel like if you put that same

(37:21):
scenario in a heatera relationship which we don't even need
to go down that road really, but but just the
idea that they have enough respect for each other that
when Violet pushes back and it's like, no, that's not me,
and you are making assumptions about me that are not correct,
Like Quirky listens to that, and it does like take

(37:44):
her a little bit to internalize it, but she internalizes it,
and then she like begins to see Violet as the
fuller person that she is and like the more complicated
person that she is, And I feel like that kind
of goes both ways, where there's this trust between them
that is established pretty early in the movie that is like,

(38:06):
you know, because I mean even in any relationship, like
being able to say to someone like I understand why
you're making that assumption about me, but you're fucking wrong,
and like listen to me, and to have the other
person hear you and understand that, like that is such
a powerful bond in any relationship. And to see that

(38:27):
like established between the two of them is so awesome
and you're like, yeah, of course I want these two together,
Like yeah, this is like a rare example of a
movie where it centers on a romantic relationship that I
am rooting for and that like I understand why, like

(38:50):
like trust being such a through line, and when they're
on opposite sides of the wall, you're just like, oh
my god, fuck me up. Just so good And how
much of the plant hinges on being like I need
to I just have to trust that you're not gonna
hurt me. Yeah, right, And they do it, and then
they both in a way that like again is very

(39:12):
much just a version of film noir, neo noir, the
whole fem fatale thing. I think this movie does something
really interesting and that both characters are presented as like,
you know, you're familiar with this fem fatale trope. Maybe
here's two fem faytales, and maybe you don't know which
one's which, and maybe maybe it's both, but it ends
up being neither because neither of them are untrustworthy. Neither

(39:37):
of them are like these like scheming seductresses. They are
like mutually into each other and like not what's the
deceiving each other. I would argue that like, in some ways,
Violent fulfills the fem fatale trope as we know it,
because she does turn on quote unquote the man she's with,

(40:00):
she turns on Caesar. But like there's a whole like
so I feel like it's like four D chest that
we get a treat into here, because in some ways,
as Violet is presented, she does kind of tick most
of the boxes of the fim fatale trope. She is
lying to the character who Caesar traditionally in a film noir,

(40:23):
is robbing him. She is she's robbing him. She is
lying to him, she turns on him and she kills him.
But unlike every film noir we've seen, Caesar is not
the protagonist and he is not the person we're rooting for.
And I mean it's like it's it's not even that
we don't totally give a ship when he died, because

(40:45):
it wasn't like I didn't feel nothing when Caesar died,
and we can get to this where it's like, I
feel like Caesar's character addresses film noir and like Mafio
so masculinity in a way that I thought was pretty effective.
So it wasn't that I felt nothing when he died,
But it was just like from the very beginning, you know,
when Caesar's on screen, we're not getting that upright base baby,

(41:09):
Like we're not rooting for him. We're rooting for Quirky
and Violet and them as individuals and also for their love,
which I also feel like it's so rare in any movie,
Like you're rooting for them as two individuals and then
you're also rooting for them as a couple. That really
really works. Yeah, it's all about the framing and how

(41:31):
this movie frames things very differently than we're used to
in a very cool, refreshing way. We're talking about this
scene in which Quirky, I feel like, exemplifies an attitude
that was very common in the nineties and before and
after for a number of years. The movie doesn't come

(41:55):
right out and say it, but it's sort of this
idea about like, oh, pick at sane, what is this
whole bisexuality thing. If you're having sex with men, you're
a traitor. You're not a real lesbian because you're out
here having sex with men. Violet immediately challenges that in
a way that I found very unexpected for a character

(42:16):
to challenge that mentality in a movie from the nineties,
and she's like, look, I know who I am. I
don't need to have a tattooed on my arm. Also,
what I'm doing is work. Is just work. And this
is also one of the very few movies I've seen
that makes a statement about sex work being work and

(42:38):
that right, because Violet's like, well, I heard you having
sex with Shelley, and she's like, that wasn't sex, that
was me working. Even the tattoo mark is like, yeah,
I'm them, I'm still a lesbian, like which in nine
like it's is like why yield and even in two

(43:02):
you you still get like that clarity you don't get
very often. Yeah. So there's a scene where Violet gets
into Quirky's truck. I love any scene in the truck.
Um she gets in, She's like, I want to apologize,
and Quirky is like, one thing I can't stand is
women apologizing for wanting sex and violence, Like, I'm not

(43:25):
apologizing for that. I'm not apologizing for what I did
because this is like after they like finger backing each other. Um. Yeah,
She's like, I'm apologizing for what I didn't do. And
it's and we're like, it's like this like incredibly sex
positive moment in this movie from and I just I like,

(43:48):
I kept being so floored by different interactions and different
scenarios that happened in this movie because I was like,
this is this is so cool? Um. And we had
brought up Susie Bright as being the choreographer of the
sex scenes in this movie. So the way that kind
of panned out is that the Wachowski sisters sent Susie

(44:09):
Bright the script and was basically like, we want you
to play a cameo in this or like be an
extra in this. Are you interested, and Susie Bright loved
the script partly because it was about women who just like,
we're extremely unapologetic about having sex and enjoying sex, specifically

(44:30):
with each other. But she was like, but there isn't
enough like description in these sex scenes, like I can't
visualize what they would look like. So then she offered
to be the like consultant for the film, and then
they hired her to like be the choreographer, and she's
like a was already like a feminist sex educator, so

(44:53):
she got brought on to choreograph the sex scenes, which
is why they are extremely horny, but also like very
tasteful and like non exploitative, which is something that we've
come upon in various sex scenes between women, like blue
was the warmest color, exactly, yes, And it's like, I mean,

(45:15):
in general, even the concept of an intimacy consultant in
a roman scene between any people was just like not
something that was done. And I feel like we've covered
on this show. Unfortunately so many at least extreme actor
discomfort and at worst like crimes and like crimes and

(45:41):
misdemeanors sex and crimes as well. Uh, but not forever.
Don't do it, but yeah, of actors who were made
to feel very uncomfortable in sex scenes in movies because
you know, any director of intimacy was not appointed in
order to make the movie. And so the fact that
like the Wachowskis had a not just an intimacy um coordinator,

(46:06):
but someone who is very enthusiastic about their work, someone
who was like really down to be involved. Like again
just a very ahead of its time. Like even ten
years ago, if you asked me about what an intimacy
coordinator was, I could not tell you. I would not
have known. Yeah, And like even on my end, I've
done like a few sketches and things where I like

(46:26):
have a piece of comedy where I'm like making out
with someone, or i have like a simulated sex scene
and it's it's comedy. It's like being played for comedy.
But even then I have somebody like touching me in
a way that I'm like not used to because in general,
I'm like, even like I hug you if I know you,
so I tend to keep like an arms reach kind

(46:47):
of person. And there's this like assumed comfort that's supposed
to be there, and when there isn't there isn't really that,
Like nobody really has the words for like, yo, can
we like slow this down and talk about how we're
about to make out? It's weird, like and it's one
of those where you don't really think about it in
like a comedy aspect until you're in it and you're like,

(47:10):
why isn't there something for all of this? Like even
if it wasn't sex, just having somebody like up on me,
it would just be really nice to be able to
talk about this with someone. And when you read, there's
this incredible interview where Gina Grashawn and Jennifer Tilly are
talking years later and they're like verbally palling at each other.
It's fantastic, highly recommend reading at it. But they talked

(47:32):
about that sex scene and they're like, shooting with the
Wachowskis in that moment, it was more like sports than sex.
They're like zero percent felt like sex because they were
moving around us being like boob up here, hand here,
moved this way, shift this way up towards a light
please Like They're like it was so clinical. Yes, they

(47:53):
were like choreograph almost like it was a fight scene,
to the point where they were like we were worked
like there was nothing for me about it. We were
just at work following these like directions with like a
team that had making sure it looked good in our
well beings and mine. We would never know that because

(48:15):
it's so horny. Yeah, like it's it really is, like
just I feel and and and it was so nice
to read interviews with the actors at the time and
years later speaking to how comfortable they were because as
far as we know, I mean, these are two straight women.
I haven't read otherwise. I don't want to put them

(48:36):
in a box. But that's what I you know, what
I know of them. And and for you know, actors
to be acting, you know, technically outside of their comfort
zone in a way that they were made to feel
safe and it's authentic, And there was a consultant involved,
and the consultant involved happens to be an iconic feminist socialist,

(48:58):
Like I just don't know what I would be more
on board with, right, Yeah, Susie right, so cool. And
she also has a really fun cameo in the movie
as well, and that incredible bar yes, like she and
she and I feel like she really owned the part too.
I would not have guessed that she was not a
not an actor by trade. I was like, Oh, you're

(49:21):
a genius by trade. You're an actor on the side,
but for you, so shout out to Susie, right, And yeah,
that was just like generally so awesome. There was one
thing I wanted to touch on before we totally went
out of Film Noir, where I was curious what the
two of you thought about this. But I felt like,

(49:43):
in the world of film Noir, Jennifer Tilly is playing
on the trope of fatal and it almost seems like
Quirky is playing on the trope of detective. I feel
like we're given a few different indications that that might
be the case. First of all, because she's constantly listen
through walls, um she she has a unique trade that

(50:05):
causes her to show up places constantly. Its lock she
picks locks. She has a criminal background. We know that
she has been you know, in prison for five years
prior to the movie beginning for quote the Redistribution of Wealth,
And you're like, okay, Susie bred I see you in there.

(50:27):
And then on top of that, there's also I felt
very film no Wiry that she had had like a
partner slash lover who had burned her in the past.
Like it all felt very corky as playing on who
we would traditionally see as the film noir protagonist played
on in her character. It's so much Gina Gershawn's intention

(50:49):
as well. It's so much what Gina Gershawn wanted to
bring to that character. Because I'm not sure if you'll
know this, but Gina Gershwan fired her management team because
they didn't want her to do this movie. I did
not know that. WHOA, that's amazing. Her Asians were like,
do not do this movie. It will tank. You will
never work again, and she was like, I will never
get another part like this. I will never get another

(51:11):
part like this because she read it. She was like,
she was like, this is my chance to watch a
bunch of Marlon Brando, to watch a bunch of James Dean.
I think she said. Clint Eastwood was her other one,
and she watched like every brooding, mysterious leading man movie
and was like, I'm just doing that. And before sex scenes,
she would just do push ups to try and make

(51:33):
her arms looked as ripped as possible or like anything.
She would like just start like working out right before
that because she wanted her forearms so look super muscly.
Like she saw the script and was like, I will
never have an opportunity to be the hot leading guy ever. Again.
I love that, and she's right like parts for women,

(51:55):
especially in this era, were rarely the protagonist or co
protagonist of the movie. They were rarely this badass or
nuanced or thoughtfully written. And it's wild because there were
very few female actors interested in these two characters of
Violet and Quirky, seemingly because they're queer characters, and it's

(52:17):
very few. I don't know who was up for the
partys of her. Linda Hamilton's was originally considered, and then
another Beauty and the Beasts, but I don't I can't
remember what I read about why she didn't end up
playing Quirky, But I think it was more logistical and
it was not like it wasn't like a moral objection

(52:38):
kind of right, right, but um, yeah it was. It
was not that many people interested in these roles. But yeah,
Gina Gershawn jumped at the chance to be in this movie,
and I'm so glad you did because I freaking love
her as Quirky. I have a good quote from Jennifer
Tilly to this fact where she was talking about sort
of exactly what you're talking about, how she was aware

(53:00):
that many actors had refused these parts and was like
kind of confused at it. And I think Jennifer Tilly
is like history prior to this movie is also relevant
to this because kind of what you were saying, Vanessa,
where it was like, you know, Gina Gershawn was well
aware that like parts like this don't come around every

(53:20):
day for anybody, especially women, where it's like you get
to be the fucking film noar action hero that also
gets to kiss and fuck, like are you kidding me?
Where Jennifer Tilly had been very successful up to this point,
but she's been super typecast as kind of like an
airhead kind of character a lot because of her voice,

(53:42):
and so it was like this was her opportunity to
play you know too, I mean, and she had been
I think she'd been nominated for and possibly one an Oscar,
which or no, she was nominated for an Oscar in
so like she was a proven actress but was typecast
quite a bit because of how she and how she sounded.
So she said this when she was cast in Bound.

(54:04):
She said, after I got the part the way said
to me, you would not believe how many actresses refused
to come in and read for this. I was really
surprised at that, because actresses in Hollywood are always bishing
and moaning about how there are no great parts for women,
and here's two really strong female roles. To me, it
just seems silly. And then she goes on to say,

(54:24):
I mean, and this is very nineties. But when she
found out that she was playing it by woman, she
started reading out magazine. Sure, um, Jennifer, I know, we
love her. And then she said, one of my pet
peeves about mainstream films where they have a gay relationship
is that people think they're being amazingly liberal. They say, well,

(54:45):
we'll have these gay characters, but they can't touch, they
can't show any affection or kiss each other or have
any sex scenes like they would just naturally with the
heterosexual relationship. I just feel like that's a cop out.
We felt it was very important not to shy away
from it and to be very matter of fact about it.
That's what's cool about the film. I know. Um. She

(55:06):
said that in the damn nineties, an icon, Uh let's
take another quick break and we will come right back.
We're back, and I wanted to talk about the stories
conception the Witch House Keys. This is from an interview

(55:27):
I think shortly after the movie was made or released,
But um, they were just speaking to how there weren't
enough good female parts in movies in Hollywood, so they
decided to write two good female parts. Uh. And they
also spoke to how they wanted to write a film
noir with a woman as a protagonist and have a

(55:50):
sexy woman but have her not be evil. I'm paraphrasing
this interview, but their intention with this movie was like,
let's subvert film noir t hopes. Let's make a point
to like meaningfully include women in the story as protagonists
and like have them drive the narrative. Not surprisingly, studio

(56:13):
executives read the script and they were like, Um, we'd
be interested in this if Corky was a man, if
you like change that character to be a man, and
the wow Skis were like, No, that movie already exists
a million times, so we're not interested in doing that
has and the rest is history, the history. It's the best,

(56:38):
so good. It brings me such joy. I've never on
every rewatch, I keep finding a new reason that it
makes me so happy, whether it be like the cinematography,
the storytelling, the crazy camera on screen, but that really
is just like a fantastic neo no are It's just

(56:59):
a real like it's it's so obvious that their inspiration
was Sin City, but they made something better than Sin
City because Frank Miller's brain isn't behind it exactly. So
many things I love. I love the scene where it
is towards the end Caesar is suggesting the quirky and
her like lesbian feminine wiles corrupted Violet. He's like, what

(57:26):
did she do to you? And Violet is like everything
you couldn't ak make her come, come and like and
treat her well. Oh my god. The fact that she
shakes his hand with a violet all over her fingers,
I reamed the first time I saw that. It's very special.

(57:48):
Everything about this movie is very special. I wanted to
also talk about a little bit about how Caesar's character
does kind of challenge a lot of I mean, not
quite as like film noir trophy, but in general just
like Mafia masculinity and just like intense like tank top masculinity,

(58:12):
kind of vibes where we constantly see that I don't
even doubt that Caesar cares about Violet. I do think
he does, but he is so like trapped in so
many things. He's like trapped within masculinity, but he's also
trapped within his profession. He's trapped within his class. He's

(58:36):
trapped in like all these different things that results in
him mistreating her spectacularly, and he doesn't. I don't know.
I feel I feel like it's we've talked about this
a million times on this show, where it's like patriarchy
as one guy and then if you get I mean,
this is like most Marvel movies where you're like, patriarchy

(58:58):
is one guy, and if you kill the guy, or
if you teach the one guy that he was wrong
the whole time, then everything right. It's like, how oh
my god, it's this is a separate right. But it's
like how Benedict comber Badge is wandering around the most
recent Doctor Strange movie like America, like and I couldn't

(59:19):
stop laughing. That is the name of a character in
the movie. But it's also the worst metaphor I've ever
heard in my life. He's like, we have to save America.
I know it's cannon, but it's silly anyways. But in
this case, there's a lot more I think like thought
portrayed and how like Caesar is trying to, you know,

(59:40):
enact his masculinity over Violet, but she is not accepting it,
which is huge in itself. And also like he is desperate.
We see him desperate in so many places, to the
point where he sort of starts to dissociate from the
situation and becomes violent because as he's in such a

(01:00:01):
desperate place, he is not the center of attention here
by any means, nor should he be. But I thought
Joey Pants did a good job at kind of demonstrating
that desperate masculinity of like he just needs to have
control over something or someone, and so when he feels

(01:00:23):
that Violet is the most viable person to be controlled,
he will treat her very badly. When he feels comfortable
within his profession, his masculinity, his finances, everything else, he
will treat her fine. And I feel like that is
something that you, like, you don't often see like shown
this clearly in a character, because this feels more like

(01:00:45):
a guy that even though it's a joey Pants character
to its core. It also feels sort of like a
guy that you would know where in some circumstances, when
he's comfortable, he'll be the nicest guy in the world.
But when he is when there's a little bit of
pressure put on him, he becomes a fucking monster. It's
a compelling character to watch for all of those reasons,

(01:01:08):
and that like you're literally watching somebody get get that
like squeeze of being in a prison of their own making.
Like every horrible thing that happens to him, he's asking
who did it? And the answer is him every single time,
Like nothing happens to him is really dumb. It's him,

(01:01:30):
like Violet, not just him in that direction, but it
is always him. It's because she knows he's going to
be a ship head and he plays into it. That
scene where he's like, you made me shoot them, You
made me shoot my mob boss and his and Christopher
Maloney and she's like, I didn't make you do that
at all. I did not make you shoot Spu, babe.

(01:01:53):
I didn't. Oh God, look, we don't have time for
Spu today. That's another day. But but shout out to
my role as an extra in an episode of I
think season ten of On Orders for you. Really, you've
ever told that story on the show. Oh my gosh. Well,
I'll figure out what episode it is and then I

(01:02:15):
will put it in the description of the episode, because
I definitely want to see it. I do walk past
the camera multiple times. Was this a Boston thing? Wait,
I'm starting to It was when I lived in New York.
They were shooting on a very narrow street and there
was a take where the like, the sidewalk was so
narrow that I accidentally like shoulder checked Merska Hargeta when

(01:02:36):
I was walking past her. For some reason, they didn't
use that take. Rude, but what but that's do you
remember not to play into complaganda? What was the crime
of the week? Um? Okay. It was about a woman
who escapes from having been like trapped in a room

(01:02:56):
allah the movie room. So then she's like trying to
retrace her steps with Christopher Maloney and Mersca harget Day.
I don't really know the character's names, and then it
turns out she might be lying about this, but it's
that was the premise of the episode. Anyway, Does anybody
let's go get back to bound because that was were

(01:03:17):
my fifteen minutes of fame and they're up now, well
please screenshot we I I will take the lead on
screenshotting if need be. So yeah, I I liked. Something
I like to find out about the production of this
movie is that it was financed through very like kind
of traditional surprisingly traditional means for a movie that spotlights
a queer couple. It was financed by Dino de Laurentis,

(01:03:41):
who is like a famous Italian filmmaker, very very famous,
not necessarily the guy that you would expect to be
financing a queer movie, definitely the guy you would expect
to be financing a mafia movies. So maybe the witch
House k is just really gamed with the system. And
also spelling films, um Aaron Spelling, like huge name in

(01:04:02):
eighties and nineties TV production that you also wouldn't expect
such uh And with all due respect to spelling industries,
because I've consumed much of your content, but you know,
not known for the not known for the intellect or
taste perhaps, And so I thought it was cool that

(01:04:22):
to such mainstream institutions financed such a subversive But also
I mean, like we've been saying this whole time such
and it makes sense that you would want to finance
such an effective noir movie. And this was also, I
feel like the nineties in the early two thousands there
was kind of a good moment for neo noir, and
so I thought that this came when it did. You

(01:04:45):
saw it in so many different mediums, but almost every
single time it was and here was the thing. I
even like liked iterations of this, And as I grow older,
I would examine it and I'm like, ouch, that hurts.
Uh where it almost always starts with like a dead
girl all friend, or a dead dame, or like some
woman that we never meet that's dead before she's even

(01:05:07):
like on screen, and in this case, even the off
screen woman is like some asshole that's richer, Like right,
she's not talked me over. Yeah, Like we didn't need
to fridge anyone for the plot to begin. We didn't
need to like there, there's just so many very obvious

(01:05:27):
no our troops that are not included in this movie,
and it's so well written. And also like I mean,
we don't often talk about like a ton of visual
choices on this show, but it's also just really cool
to see the witch how skis in their bag pre Matrix,
where like the action scenes I don't care about any

(01:05:49):
of the characters and the Mafia shooting scenes, but they
look fucking awesome and it looks like a witch Howski's
action scene and it's very exciting to see and so
like I don't know where I was, I don't know anyways.
I like when you see the close up of the
barrel of the gun and then you see the bullet
come out question mark pretty cool if you ask me,

(01:06:12):
absolutely gorgeous, Like it's so much background being graphic novels
that they were like we think things as like by
scene and not point A to B. They're like, we
need to tell as much as we can and as
little frame as possible, which is obviously why like neo
Noir attracts them because like it's just a marriage of
like that in comic books. And also this is the

(01:06:35):
same cinematographer who would go on to do the Matrix
original trilogy. I don't know if they did. And clueless
and Bill Pope, how dare you, sir? How dare you
to be so versatile and yet so talented? Wow? Clueless
and bound no wait blank check clueless bound back to

(01:06:59):
back to back what what? What? Range incredible? Also did Bedazzled,
a movie we did not like on this show, not
his Also did Spider Man two, okay, and so he's
worked with Alfred Molina. He did Spider Man two and
three Army of Darkness. So he works with Sam Ramya

(01:07:21):
a lot. Then, yes, he works with Sam Ramy. He
did Scott Pilgrim versus The World Weight. I'm becoming a
full on fan of this. But BILLI Pope is up
there with um j oh God. Look, we famously don't
know anything about cinematography. And I remember, like I know
who Roger Deakins is, though Bill Kundy is the one

(01:07:43):
I was trying to remember. He is dressed hard Halloween.
If anything's ever looked like gorgeous and interesting, it's either
Dean Coundy or Bill Pope. Like you can just kind
of look at something and know who it is because
you're like, oh, this is sexy, like this is this
is a monolithic image. Okay, it's either dem Candier Doll Prope. Yeah.

(01:08:03):
I love how Caitle and I were both like Roger
Deacons because one time we got fucking we got like
rightfully schooled by Hunter Harris in public in New York,
and neither of us had any idea who Hunter Deacons
was or Hunter, Oh my god, Roger Deacons. Okay Deacons,
maybe I don't know. He's very old. Does anyone have

(01:08:26):
any other thoughts about Bound? I think I would just
end with maybe my favorite quote from the interview that
I beg everyone to read. It's Gina and Jennifer just
like talking about some of the behind the scenes choices
that they made, but also they're kind of low key,
like hitting on each other the entire time. This was like,
I think, like five years ago, and it's a lot

(01:08:49):
of like the interview being like Gina continues to stare
at Jennifer, not answering my question, and then just says
something like I loved playing with her boobs. Um, it's
fantastic interview. We'll link it. We'll link it in the
description as well. So Jennifer would tell Gina things like, Hey,
when we're shooting this scene, can you put my hand
here so my cellulate doesn't show. Also, when this happens,

(01:09:12):
hold my boom up like this so it looks plumper
and perkier. And so she basically like between takes, I
guess they were just constantly like a laughing and be
using each other as human spanks. I that's trust. That
is beautiful trust. And the fact that Susie Bright was
also like involved in the choreographing of the scene. I

(01:09:35):
just I love it so much. And the fact that
they were honest about it in interviews. Oh my god,
I would lie my ass off. Good for them, Yeah,
they're They're also two of the hottest people on the planet.
So you know, all with a grain of salt. Yeah,
I think that that's all I had to I just
what a what a fun movie. If you haven't seen it,

(01:09:56):
it is streaming on Amazon Prime as we record this.
At least hopefully it stays dreaming in a widely available
way soon. But you know, run, don't walk. It fucking
rocks truly. Yeah, the movie obviously does pass the Bechdel test,
mostly between Quirky and Violet. But I would say one

(01:10:17):
of my favorite exchanges that pass is when Quirky goes
into the bar towards the beginning and says, how are
you doing Sue to Sue the bartender, and Sue the
bartender says, like shit, pause, Well, now that we're all
caught up? Can I buy you a drink? And then

(01:10:41):
they go on to talk about Quirky's job. Quirky says,
I'm just here to get laid dot dot dot by
a woman because they're in a lesbian bar. The whole
exchange passes the test, as does many, if not most,
of the exchanges between Quirky and Violet soum you love
to see it. You do love to see it, and

(01:11:03):
it makes you smile and it makes your horny, and
what more can you ask for from a movie? Definitely
passes the back to the test. However, what about the
most important metric on the face of the fucking plant?
You mean our nipple scale, in which we rate a
movie zero to five nipples based on how it does
when you look at it through an intersectional feminist lens.

(01:11:26):
Is that what you're referring to, Jane? Yes, yeah, Um,
I would give this movie honestly freaking five nipples, Like
is there a reason not to? It's just like it's
a pretty like it's it's a white movie. I think that, uh,

(01:11:50):
warrens saying I'm pretty probably five nipples. Really like five
nipples does work? Like? I don't really it it's kind
of it kind of has to be fun, kind of
has to be really no way around it. Right. It
challenges so much, it subverts so much. It presents these

(01:12:13):
characters in very nuanced ways the harmful tropes that we
had been seeing in film up to that point and
continue to see for years and years after that. It's like,
let's instead have horny women be horny for each other
in a very sex positive and non exploitative way. Let's

(01:12:34):
have them be driving the narrative. Let's have them be
able to like do ship and have skills and fix
things and plan things. And I just love that. Like Quirky,
she's the planner, She's the thief. That's her skill set. Meanwhile,
Violet is like a very good performer. She's good at acting,

(01:12:55):
she's good at making people believe like the way. She
also has like the credit coal knowledge to like, she
knows how the mafia works, right, she knows who's weak
to what, who's insecure to what? Like who could she
play like a fiddle because she's constantly at a front
row seat to the most intimate behaviors right, Like, the

(01:13:16):
plan wouldn't work without both of their specific skill sets
and without any like Mary sus nonsense needing to take place,
like between the two of them need to be working
together with trust in order for the plan to work.
And it's because they do that that it works, and
then they get to drive away in the truck. I

(01:13:37):
love it. There's a specific scene that like illustrates that,
Like it's it's build Pope and the Wai is being like,
we're making it obvious that they're like equal contenders, and
when they're getting ready for the heist, and like Jia
is putting the lock picking kit in her ear and
Jennifer Tilly is putting on lipstick, and like she's loading

(01:13:58):
her gun and Jennifer Tilly is like zipping her dress up.
Like they both have very specific tools that they're bringing
to the table that they cannot survive without. And that,
my friends, is show don't tell. That's a screenwriting tip
for everyone out there. I really, I really love it.
Everyone's firing on. I just now knowing that Bill Pope

(01:14:22):
was coming off of Clueless. I like to think that
he was just cracking his knuckles before every shot and
being like, not to worry, I just shot clueless. I
got this. If I had just shot Clueless, I would
not shut up about it. That that's for damn sure. Um,
and the Witchasky sisters are like, don't worry, We're about
to direct the Matrix. And everyone's like, holy sh it,

(01:14:45):
what are you talking about? Um? What is that? Yes?
So I'm giving this movie five nipples. I can't wait
to rewatch it. This movie should be in more like
film school curriculums for all the fucking classes that are
like we're a new new like this is a neo
noir class, Like why aren't you watching Bound? This movie
rules five nipples and I will give to Quirky, too

(01:15:11):
to Violet, and one to Sue the bartender. I'm gonna
go five as well. I think that this movie is
going to enter the elite Jamie Tear of movies I
would fall asleep to, which is the highest compliment in
the entire world. It just means I feel safe with
this movie. This movie makes me feel held. I want

(01:15:32):
to be with this movie multiple times a month, and um,
I want to know every single word of it subconsciously. Okay,
Like I do feel like it's it sounds like an insult,
but it's like the shows what I do. But like
it's like shows and movies that you're like, they don't

(01:15:53):
necessarily need to be like calm, you just need to
feel safe with them. Yeah. I do this with the Thing.
I Bound the Thing, like I have certain movies that
just make me so happy or like The Army of
Darkness is another one that if I like, throw it
on and I'm home alone, I feel like I have
a guardian angel. Right. Like you're like if I woke

(01:16:14):
up in the middle of the night and this was playing,
If Bound was on and I woke up, yeah, you're like, Okay,
things can't be that bad. Bound us on. So I
really I am so happy to have this movie, um
in my life. Now, I think we've kind of said
it all at this point. I'm very excited to hear

(01:16:34):
our listeners perspectives on this movie as well. Um, So,
five nipples to to Violet, to the quirky, and let's
say one to the truck. The truck in a way
a character. Yeah, Vanessa, what do you say? I say, uh,
you know the difference between me and no, I don't

(01:16:58):
know either. Oh so romantic. So five nipples then across
the board. What a rare accomplishment this is for a
movie to get five nipples across the board on the
Bucktel cast. So incredible. Shout out to Bound, Shout out
to the Wachowski sisters, Shout out to us all, God

(01:17:20):
bless us everyone. What am I saying? It's very late?
Where I am? Okay? Tiny Tim, thank you bus. She
literally pulled out the Tiny Tim card at the end
of the Bound episode. You're gonna get Caitlin Torante and
that's and that's that's how we keep things fresh in
this relationship. She could become Tiny Tim and any Well,

(01:17:43):
you're welcome, Vanessa, Thank you so much for coming back
for a fourth time. We'll have you back for a
fifth time so that we can give you our special
fifth appearance gift that we have yet to actually um
give to anyone. But it's it's okin jacket. I'm so excited,
the Letterman jacket. But tell us where people can check

(01:18:08):
out your stuff, follow you on social media anything like that. Um, yeah,
you can find me on Twitter as an E. S. S. Guerrero.
That'sn est Guerrero and s n E. S. Guerrero on Instagram.
I know that makes it harder for people to find
me if they're not the same. And that's on purpose, um,
keep like a study smaller trickle um. And then you

(01:18:31):
can find me every Wednesday on a show that I
produced called bybe Check on G four. And then I
have a podcast called Kicking and Screaming that's been on
hiatus for a little bit because I've honestly just been
really really tired, uh, And it's coming back soon and
I've been missing talking about movies, so I'm very excited
about it. You can find that under a kick screen pod.
Love it. Thank you so much for coming back for

(01:18:54):
this modern classic. Thank you for having me. You can
find us in all the usual places. You can find
us on Instagram or Twitter at becketel Cast. You can
follow us on our Patreon ak Matreon at patreon dot com,
slash becktel Cast, where every month we cover, we cover,
we cover to are bound to cover. We are bound,

(01:19:17):
We are bound and in fact tethered to our matreons
uh community, and it's a gift of course where we
cover two additional movies every single month. This month our
theme is Bravely I know what you did last Midsommar
and you won't believe the two movies we chose to cover.

(01:19:38):
So that's five bucks a month, you get to bonus
episodes a month and a backdog of over a hundred episodes,
and you can get merch at t public dot com.
Slash the Bechtel cast. Imagine that. And with that said, um,
I've got the truck running. Should we get out of here?
The whole mafia is dead. We should probably get out

(01:19:59):
of here. Yeah, let's yeah, yeah yeah. Bye bye bye
bye bye