Casino Royale with Kenice Mobley

Loftus...Jamie Loftus and Durante...Caitlin Durante link up with fellow spy and special guest Mobley....Kenice Mobley to examine Casino Royale (2006).

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bedel Cast, the questions asked if movies have
wenen inum, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have in individualism the patriarchy zef in
best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast. Hello, and
welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is now you

(00:23):
keep talking, I'll be I'll do them. My name is Durante,
Caitlin Durante. I'm Jamie, but James, Jamie Jamie loftus. Also

(00:45):
at the beginning of the movie is fun and then
it's so long. Oh, welcome, This is the Bechdel Cast.
It sure is. And what do we do here? What?
What are we doing? Well? Uh, this is a podcast
about the role that women play in famous movies, whether

(01:06):
they be main sidekicks from fatales or sacrificial lance. Hey. Yes,
So we use the Bechtel test as a jumping off
point to initiate a conversation about the representation of women
in movies and the Bechtel test. If you're not familiar

(01:26):
two female identifying characters, they should have names. Come on
first of all, okay, they should be in the movie together,
they should talk to each other, and they shouldn't talk
about a man, especially if batman is James, I like
to call him Jimmy Bond. I was, I kept rearing

(01:47):
down Jimmy be Jimmy Bobo. And then for our for
our purposes, it's just has to be a two line
exchange between two women. And uh, we'll find out her
on if this movie past we have picked perhaps it's
it's kind of interesting that we it's taken us this
long to get to this franchise, notoriously toxic franchise that

(02:10):
I'm excited to talk about. I know nothing about Jimmy Bobo,
and so I did a lot of reading, did a
lot of learning. Then, boy, is this movie long? It
certainly is. With that much further ado, let's introduce our guests,
shall we. Let's do it. She is a New York comedian.
Ever heard of it? So sorry, um, you might have

(02:37):
seen her on laughs on Fox. She is the host
of the Love About Town podcast, and if you're a matron,
you might remember her from our Back to the Future episode.
It's Canis Mobley. I'm back. Sorry, it's really exciting. I

(02:58):
should have It's a It's Mobli Mobli. I just keep
doing that. I do it so many times, So what's
your relationship with this franchise? Okay, so we're doing Casino
Royale by the way, two thousand six. Okay, So when

(03:22):
I was a kid, I watched all of the Pierce
Brosson ones. I went to the theater with my mom
to watch them. They are cheesy as hell, but I
was like super intovent, Like the tech is dumb. They
try to do some cg I stuff, It's dumb. The
relationship to the entire country of Russia is very silly.
They have Alan Cumming playing a Russian do you remember that? Yes,

(03:42):
Alan Cumming is a Russian jerkrogrammer, hacker. Yes, perfect for him.
Golden Eye, Oh ship. I played the video game Golden Eye.
I don't know if I saw the movie. That's the
only video game I've played more than once. And I
work at a video game company and they try to
make me play video games and we're like absolutely, but
I will funk with some Golden that sure. Sure. Oh

(04:02):
my god, I have to see Alan Cumming Villa like especially,
like everyone's doing the most, like none of the people
they I think Femka Jansen is not Russian, right, I
don't believe so yeah, yeah, they have her being an
evil lady who like chokes people with their thighs. It's
like a whole thing. Yeah, you're a woman, you have

(04:23):
to put your pussy in someone's face. And yeah, when
you guys mentioned that on another episode, I was like,
they must have seen the Chanson fucking people today with
her thoughts like it's the thing Pierce brows and so
inherently silly to like you Just I feel like I
just can't take him seriously. Like maybe it's because I'm
most familiar with his work in the moment be a franchise,

(04:46):
but I was just like, I can't take this guy seriously.
I saw for me he starts off as Bond and
then he goes Thomas Crown Affair, which not a great
like representing women not great. But oh man, I have
a solve software and I have to acknowledge that. But okay,
sure all that is preface to uh the last one

(05:07):
I think with Pierce browsing. It was like two thousand
or no, like ninety eight maybe, and then I heard
that they were coming out with a new one. It
was around my twenty first birthday. I am older than
you guys, but uh so I feel like a year older.
It's like crazy, It's like all all different times references.
I'm just like so old. So uh yeah. So I

(05:28):
heard that they were coming out with it, and I
themed my entire twenty first birthday party around James Bond.
So I brought like, um, like the green felt stuff
that covers like a table that you would play poker on.
I got like three handles of vodka to make vodka
marteenis with. Uh. Not that many people came. I was
not popular, So everyone who came, like outside of me

(05:49):
and the other people who were like playing poker the
whole night, everyone else became ship faced. And I turned
around and like everyone's just on the floor and I'm like, oh, well,
successful party party. Yeah. Guess what the theme of my
birthday party was last year? Paddington Yep, hell yeah. It
was it Paddington, both Paddington's or Paddington Too. It was

(06:12):
basically just like dress as close to Paddington as you can,
so everyone's dressed as Paddington. There's like literally someone wore
a red hat and that was it. We try get
to be fair. It was in the event description in
the event I made, and I didn't show up but
it was hard. It's hard to get a Paddington outfit.

(06:32):
I didn't realize. Yeah, it looks so you can get
a blue coat or jacket or shirt, just a blue thing.
There's a red bucket hat. You think it would be
easier to find a red bucket. I feel like you
got to go to Venice Beach. Yeah, they're selling them there. Yeah,
you're gonna have to take like the weed banner that's
around the base of You're gonna have to take that off.
But once you do that, then I think you're good.

(06:54):
Fun birthday though, it was great. I had such a
good time. So so then you saw the movie when
it came mount, Yes, and have you seen the other
ones in this? And then I have seen every other one? Okay? Cool? Uh?
In order I will give them in quality and if
people disagree with me, they are wrong. Okay. So first one,
sky Fall the best. I think sky Fall's best, followed

(07:16):
by Casino Royal, followed by this maybe controversial Quantum of Solace,
and last I hated Spector. Spector is really bad. I
would agree with you. I think I like Casino Royal
a little better than Skyfall, but I did enjoy Skyfall. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
either way. I feel like people shed on quantum of
solas so hard. But like compared to like Spector was

(07:36):
very very bad. Ye Spector the most recently, Yes, Spectr
is the one where he sleeps with a woman his
age and they're like, whoa, this is wild. Okay, he
sucked Monica Bellucci. This is nuts, even though she is
like a supermodel who was his exact same age, right,
oh my god? Like inclusion is this cool? It was awesome? Jamie,

(08:01):
what's your history with Jimmy be nothing. I have no
history nor attachment to Jimmy Bobo. He seems like he
seems like he kind of hates women. It's weird. I
feel like most people have like some at least someone
in their family, Like who is very in a James Bond?
I just didn't. I don't know what. I don't know

(08:22):
what it was. At Robot Chicken, there was a really
funny skitch that got cut based around Golden Eye, a
movie I haven't seen, but it was about peeing in
someone's eyeball. That was kind of funny. What it would
make your eye gold It's like a golden shower into
your eye, Like, well, if it's got cut and that's

(08:42):
all I know about coo good. Yeah, what about I
some of the had seen at least a few of
the Pierce brows and ones. The one I remember most
was the one that Hallie Berry was in, which I
think was like early two thousand's that I think that
was like one of the last periods, if not the
last one. Yeah. I just remember her like being tied
to a slab and there's like a laser about to

(09:04):
like slice her up, and then of course Jimmy Bee
has to come in and save her. And that was
still Pierce. Yeah. Yeah, I only remember that one because
that movie came out right after She Wanted an Oscar
and people were like, huh, first that was like two one,
and then yeah, this had to be like two thousand two,
Y think, so it was not good? And then did

(09:25):
they all have the same name these movies? It's like
Live another Day, Die Again Tomorrow, Tomorrow, never dies, die
Die another Day? Because I remember that was like a song. Man,
I honestly like most of the James Bond songs. And

(09:46):
I cannot accept this out about myself, but it is true.
The adele One is really good, Sky Falls great, Ye
Trees hates it. Sister, none of you know her. Okay, cool,
but she complains about this song constantly because we constantly
diet in fight about James Bond. She thinks Quantum of
Solace is the best because she's looking crazy, She's like, no,
I studied geopolitics, don't you have the same twin wait,

(10:10):
she she's arguing the cultural importance of Quantum of solid
She's like, water rights are gonna be a thing. Come on, guys,
we gotta get on board. And I'm like, I don't
think that's a reason to like a film. I don't
so anyway, So I've seen a few of those. I
have seen all of the Daniel Craig ones, and then
I hadn't seen any of like the ones from the

(10:31):
Sean connri era or like Roddermore, any of those older ones.
So I was like, maybe for this episode, I should
just go and watch one of them, see how it goes.
So I started gold Member or gold Finger again, they
all have the same members, so not that one. So
gold Finger and I saw the first five minutes of it,

(10:55):
and within the first five minutes you see a naked
woman in a bathtub. She gets out and starts kissing
James Bond, who this one is a Connery one. Hyeah,
it was a notorious advocate for one yes from this icon. Um.
So he starts kissing her while she is still naked

(11:15):
and he is fully clothed, and then a bad guy
comes into attack Bond, and so Bond flings her around
and uses her as a human shield and that results
in the bad guy bludgeoning her on the head. And
then I was like, I've seen enough. I get it.
I understand what the movie was going to be, so uh,

(11:36):
I can't get behind anything before Peters Brosnan I saw
from Russia with Love or two whom you get it.
He hits a lady in it, and they're just like,
of course hits her in the face, So like, why
are we doing There's a number of super cuts out
there of like old school James Bond just straight up
abusing women, like treating them badly, physically abusing him like

(12:00):
being raised. It's like he's just horrible. Um, it's weird.
And then it's like by comparison, like a lot of
stuff I was reading about Casino Royale was like, well,
by comparison, he's actually a militant feminist like, I guess
if he was beating women up and now it's I

(12:22):
don't know, I'll do the recap. I couldn't tell you
what happens in this movie. Really. I know there's a
card game. Yes, yes, well I'm here to tell you what.
Accountants also have to sort of be pretend to be
people's girlfriends some kind part of every accountants job. She
is not a spy, but they're like, let's bring like

(12:43):
she's undergo she's like the assistant comptroller or something. They're
They're like, no, you gotta be hot. They I guess
they did what they did in Miss Congeniality, where they
were just like scanned through the computer and was like
who works here? And then they just threw her into
this much of you is at least, but she was
like already an undercover FBI agent? Was she yeah? Yes, yeah, no,

(13:07):
this is like someone with no fight training, who's never
seen anyone die, who like doesn't know how to be
discreet in any way, Like yeah, and then he's like
where this dress? You're my wife? And that dress. I
was like, I don't think I've seen anything that's more
two thousand six in that dress and that hairstyle together.
I was amazed, but I was furious when she's like,

(13:28):
we'll get to it, but she's like just sitting in
a shower. I was like, bitch, that dress cost like
ten thous dollars. Like I get that you're sad, but
like all you did do was like take the dress
off and then sit in the shower, like the funk
out of here, Like that's ridiculous. Okay, sorry, it's a
it's a really every prom dress from that era looks
exactly like that dressed, like the rhy stones down, the
plunging neckline, in the straightened hair. It's like, okay, okay,

(13:50):
eight grade, semmy, what's up? Okay? So the story of
cause you know Royal Uh, there's an opening scene. It's
in black and white, and it's just establishing there's a
new James Bond in town because he gets because he's
gotten promoted to double oh status, or he will once

(14:11):
he kills this double crossing agent dude. And then we
see all that happen and we're like, wow, James Bond
is cool. It's gritty now. So we cut to Madagascar
where Bond is after a bombmaker, uh, and there's this
huge parkour chase for a construction site that ends with

(14:36):
James Bond killing the guy and blowing up an embassy.
That's very cool. Yep, that was great. And we were
supposed to be like, yeah, this is like they need
the infrastructure, and the whole sequence resulted in like the
destruction of a high rise building and I'm like, wow, okay,

(14:58):
what you're trying to save? Like you could have just
saved money by not doing any of that. Yeah, this
is a sequence that only could have been made during
the Bush administration. Yeah. Just the number of black bodies
that are just like falling from this guy, like well
collateral damage. Yeah, I want to talk about that a
little later on. Meanwhile, there's this bad guy the Sheef

(15:22):
say it again and that's Mad's Michelson's character. And he's
free bleeding out of his eye you know text and
here is his eye vall Diva cup. He is taking

(15:46):
money from bad guys in Uganda to invest in bad things.
I'm not really sure. And then he's he's playing poke.
He loves poker. He's on a he's got a girlfriend
who I don't know if she even has a line
in the entire movie. She's his girlfriend, and yet she

(16:06):
is seventeen the actress that place his girlfriend was in. Oh,
it's got Monica Potter and Freddie Prince Jr. And she
has to blend in with a bunch of models to
like for some reason because they think he killed somebody.
She even that, but she's also in she's one of
the Americans in love actually Oh okay, yeah, with like

(16:27):
January Jones, Yeah, with January Jones and Denise Richards shows. Yeah. Yeah,
she's one of those ladies, like I am a model
and this is I don't know why I gave her
that accept given her face, I think it makes sense.
But okay, her name is Ivana milick iven Y. That
accent made sense. Yeah, yeah, you know this. Russians, Please

(16:51):
do not be mad at me. I'm so sorry. So
we're back in London and Bond is hacking. He's finding
finding stuff out about something called Ellipsus, and then he
breaks into his boss's house that's m played by Dame
Judy Dench, and she's like Bond, like, you shouldn't have
killed that guy. You shouldn't have blown up the embassy. Yes, yes,

(17:15):
but she's like, you need to look at the bigger picture. Like,
who hired that bomb maker? We don't know that because
you killed him. And then she like basically she's like
quit being such an arrogant wenk and never comfortable a
house again. And god, every time they cut to Judy
Den she's in this ornate room and she's super concerned.
And then sometimes she's on like a patio and she's

(17:37):
super concerned. Right, and then Bond goes to the Bahamas.
He's driving a forward. Yeah, oh my god. The product
placement in Casino Rail is so funny. He's always texting
people on his sony ericson phone. And then in the
closing scene after spoiler alert, his lover dies, he's on
a sony via okay, Jude Denver a lot of lot

(18:07):
like that doesn't drive a Ford anyway. So he's driving
around a Ford and then he finds this guy named
Alex Demetrios who is up to no good and he
is a known associate off. This is my new favorite
um and this guy Demetrios, he's got a hot wife,
he's got an Aston Martin. He is playing poker as well.

(18:29):
So Bond joins in this poker game and he wins
Demetrios's car, and money and wife uman the top three possessions,
and he finds out from her that Demetrios is getting
this flight to Miami, so Bond follows him to Miami.
He realizes that there's some terrorists who are targeting this

(18:52):
large plane to blow it up. The shot of the
plane are so it's shot like it's a cock. I mean,
like the they're the shots of the plane are extremely
felt like I went back and wanted them twice of
like what an interesting? Like you didn't need to do that. Well,
it's basically it looks like they're like it's like the

(19:15):
biggest plane ever to fly. This guy, it's basically Titanic.
They're like, I want to marvel the speed it's filmed
like it's a huge dick, Like it's just that the
Titanic of these guys. I wasn't. I was like, okay,
this is that. This was the choice? Yeah, I mean anyway,
So Bond stops this from happening. He stops the explosion,

(19:36):
and then the sheif was counting on the plane exploding
because it would have done something stocks, which I don't
understand how making the stocks lower would have made him money.
I don't understand the stock market get and I only
sort of know this because of the big short, but

(19:57):
you can compet against h a certain eltcome. I think
that sounds that's that's wild. That doesn't that feels like
it should be any And I will say in that
scene where they talk about like, oh, he was supposed
to make all this money from this plane being exploded.
It didn't work, they also say, like someone did he

(20:18):
also did this on nine eleven, and they like very
much so gloss over that. They're like, yeah, he did
all this and he made a fortune on nine twelve,
And I'm like, so wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, in
this movie's logic, Lastifa did nine eleven and it's only
mentioned once and we never talked about it, and he
like made a lot of money off of nine. That's
like a one off. Judy Dench left. She says one

(20:40):
line about it, and I'm like, so we're not We're
not going to go back to that. And j harg
is like those movies suggesting that nine. I mean, well,
that's wild. So let's set Oh my god, let's sheaf
the st reef. He has to recoup all that lost money.

(21:03):
So now he is setting up a very high stakes
poker game at Casino Royal in Montenegro, bad writing, Um,
there's ten players, it's a ten million dollar buying and
he's hoping that he will because he's so good at poker.
He'll sweep everyone out. He'll get everyone's money. But guess
who's gonna be one of the players. It's our friend

(21:26):
Jimmy be Jimmy Bobo a table playing the card because
he's also good at poker, because he's good at everything.
And then Vesper Lynde shows up. That's Ava Green's character,
and she's with the Treasury who is fronting the ten
million dollars for bonds buying, and she's cute, you know,

(21:46):
and they have some cheeky banter. They have some cheeky banter.
This is the first, this is canonically the first smart
woman James Bond has ever spoken to. It's wild. And then,
as you hinted at Jamie, they have to assume these
alter egos because they're going undercover. But immediately Bond is like,

(22:08):
I'm not Mr Beach, I'm James Bond because you know
he's an arrogant winka. Yeah, and then they have to
pretend to be a couple and they have to even
though they don't have this cover story before, they need
to write the logic of why they have to be
a couple as well, and they like the logic of
when you have Like there's that scene where he brings

(22:29):
her the dress and then he was like, when you
go down to kiss my neck, well you want them
to look at your neck. So that I was like,
this is a bad play. This is a perfect It
certainly is also, I mean, wouldn't it be crazy if
like women were playing this poker game. Like there's the

(22:49):
Asian lady who's at the she was also on the
yacht with Lasifa earlier. She hits. She never says anything
throughout the movie. She appears in these two pivotal scenes
but has no name and no one right, maybe she
did not eleven And then there's a story to be told.
Someone at that poker table, they're the dealer is a woman,
I believe, But yeah, there's other than that. Women aren't

(23:13):
allowed to play poker and don't talk. In that scene,
but before that, they link up with this guy Mathis
because he's there like contact for this mission and the
players assemble. They have to enter this password and in
the event that they win so that the money will
be wired to them, and then the game begins. It's
Texas hold him Bond in. The Sheaf are very good

(23:35):
at poker, and Bond discovers the chiefs tell, which is
that his eye twitches when he bluffs, so he has
to cover it up. And then there's a break in
the game during which Bond fights and kills a bunch
of bad guys who are trying to kill a Sheaf
because he lost them the money. And then Bond gets
all cleaned up and he's like, I'm bad baby, here
to play more poker. And then Bond loses all his

(23:58):
money because he thought La Chief was bluffing because he
was doing his tell, but turns out he wasn't bluffing
and he had the winning hand. So he needs five
million dollars to buy back in. Invespers like, no, you're
you're an arrogant one guy. I'm not going to give
you the money, and he's like me. But this CI,
a dude who is also undercover and also playing, is like, hey,

(24:22):
I'll buy you back in as long as the CIA
gets to take lachief and he's like great. He says
my favorite line in the whole movie, which is Jeffrey
Right being like, it look like we need the money.
And I don't know why I love it. It's delivered
to this very throaty way. Yeah, it works for me
every single time. I love it so much. And when
he said it, I was like, I actually don't know

(24:42):
the answer to that question. And maybe they I think
maybe they could use them as the CIA, just like rolling.
That's what I think everyone thinks about our government, just
like we don't give a ship. Here's a billion dollars,
We literally throw this away. I was thrilled to see
Jeffrey right and in this movie, and I was like, God.
So then the game starts up again, but before anything

(25:05):
can happen, La Chief poisons bond Um and he goes
into cardiac arrest, but luckily there's a defibrillator in his car,
and then Vesper has to come in and save him.
She saves him, but then she's kidnapped. Shit, and it's
the final phase of the game. Everyone is all in
and guess who wins. It's our friends something like a

(25:30):
hundred and fifty million dollars, and he somehow figures out
that Mathis is a bad guy. And then he runs
out to go do something about that, and then Vesper
gets kidnapped right then he goes after her. They're both
captured by like lachief goons and he tortures Bond by

(25:51):
hitting him in the balls a lot and hard hard,
And did not see this kink ball play scene coming
because he strips him down totally naked. It makes him
sit on a chair without any like you could have
left his shirt on for the purposes of this type
of torture. But sure we need to see Jimmy Bee's nipples. Yeah,

(26:15):
I mean I was, and I was thrilled. I was thrilled,
But what a what a wild sexually charged scene. Because
he's trying to get the password that Bond had entered
so he can steal all the money back from him,
but Bond refuses, and then someone comes in and kills
the sheet from leaves Bond in Vesper alive, so then
the money gets transferred to Bond. You know Vespers, like,

(26:36):
I have the account number and you have the password,
and he reveals that the password was Vesper because he's
in love with her, and they're in love now. She
took way too long to recognize that it was her name.
It's like a six letter thing and he's like v
E and it isn't until Pe where she's like, oh,
it was like perfectly my fame. What do you want?

(26:58):
You know? And also she starts loving him for no reason.
But suddenly they're in love, or at least I guess
she's pretending. I don't know. But they go on holiday
in Europe and they're riding around on a boat and
he is there's Wifia Penis recovered there. There's a scene

(27:18):
where she literally weeps, like even if it's just a figure.
He's like, oh, yeah, hey, babes, got still. And then
he decides to quit being a spy because he loves
her so much. He like emails M with his resignation
letter from a boat that apparently has WiFi anyway, But
then he's like, wait, something is wrong and the money

(27:40):
is not in the account that it's supposed to be in,
and he realizes that Vesper stole it, so he goes
after her. There's a big fight, a building collapses into
the sea, and then she lets herself drown and die.
What I'm not sure and then M is like, oh,
she was being blackmailed by the Sheef's people who kidnapped

(28:05):
her boyfriend, so that's why she betrayed Bond. This is
all delivered so last minute, and like Judy Dench says
it all in one Brand're like what She's like, hey,
bt debs, we found out this person that we were
working like, that was working for us has been against
us this whole time, is completely compromised, Like this is
her dating, Like the amount they were able to discover

(28:28):
so quickly, it was very obvious. And then yeah, and
then like Judy den just like, yeah, bummer, we didn't
figure that out earlier anyways, That's how I guess, but
we were. She starts off as being so thorough and
then it's like, well, Eva Greenstead should have seen it coming,
didn't he coming? What are you gonna do? Come back
to work maybe? And he's like okay, And somehow this

(28:52):
is the easiest Daniel Craig Bond movie to follow, because
I would like the Quantum of Solace Inspector are unfollowable.
Scotty follow is pretty easy too, but like you're just like, what, Yeah,
we need to take a quick break, but we will
come right back in a second. We're back here we are,

(29:20):
I think that was a good transition bag. All right,
where do we we're to be in We're too? I mean, well,
I want to because you both have far more experience
with this franchise as a whole than me. I wanted
to talk about the concept of a bond girl in general,
because it seems like Eva Green is one of the

(29:43):
bond girls that is treated slightly better than a lot
of other women in the franchise, and I was I
did some reading about this, but I was curious about
your impressions on Vesper. I like that she at least
has an active role. Like in a lot of the
pierres bras and ones, it's a woman who like, Hey,
I was going about my life, living it and somehow

(30:04):
I'm tied up in this international intrigue and oh no,
someone's trying to kill me and I have no preparation
for this, and I just run around and scream a lot. Yeah,
so thankfully this isn't I mean, she does do her
fair amount of screaming, but at least she's like a
reason to be there and some sort of training, and
she gets to make some decisions even though they're immediately overridden.
So right, Yeah, it's weird because she does. She participates

(30:28):
in the narrative more than I expected, just like with
the reputation of the James Bond franchise, but it's still
so like she participates in that fight where James Bond
kills two men in front of her, but she only
only for like a second. She like gets the gun
out of his hand and that's it. Or she prevents
James Bond from being poisoned, but then two seconds later

(30:51):
she's kidnapped and like, yeah, like it's like you're saying
her most of the stuff she contributes is overwritten right away,
and she's mostly just like James Bond, you're not as
cool as you are, and then he does something that
proves that he's that cool, and you're like, okay, really,
so you're just you're just saying she's wrong. That's the
whole Okay. I would argue that her involvement in the

(31:11):
story doesn't make that much sense because the position that
she's put in is like the representative of the treasury
that's fronting the money, like as we already kind of
hinted at, like she has no like spy training. The
fact that she's thrown into this undercovermas as a spy. Yeah,
and you know when they saw this, she's twenty six. Yeah,

(31:31):
there's there's a twelve year age gap with the age gap.
It's sad that I'm like, that was less of an
age gap than I thought. But twelve year age gap
between these actors just for for curious listeners. Yeah, So
she's thrust in the story in this like spy role
that she has no training for. She's an accountant. But

(31:56):
it's clear that the whoever crafted this story was like, well,
we you know, a woman there to keep being there
so that he has someone to kiss. So like, oh,
we'll just take this treasury woman, but like her role
as like a representative of the treasury and then her
ongoing role based on that, Like that doesn't make sense,
but they're just like, well, we need this beautiful woman here,
so let's keep her, you know, keep her around. From

(32:18):
what I know, and I'm sure that James Bond fans
are going to slide into our mentions for this episode.
It's inevitable. I'm still traumatized from Lord of the Rings,
but I believe that Casino Royale. This is adapted from
one of the first, if not the first James Bond
stories ever written, And I don't know how closely. I know,

(32:38):
like all the main players that are in this movie
are included in that story, but I don't know how
far this deviates from the Ian Fleming original. This movie
had also previously been adapted in the sixties too. I
think there's another royale based on based on the novel?
Is that a Connery one? Do we know? I don't.

(33:00):
I'll fact check it really quick. Just nixt seven David
Niven the first James Bond Okay, Yeah, there's there's a
there's a few Bonds that were only in like one
or two movies, and the Sellers is in it. Okay,
So in the original one at Ursula Andrews plays Ves
Berlin and David Niven plays Sir James bond Um in

(33:25):
the seven one, so also, and it is cassing around
the first James Bond novel, first Ian Fleming novel, however, yeah, okay,
but not the first Bond movie, because there had been
a few before that, I believe in the earlier sixties.
It doesn't matter. I had a little bit of did

(33:47):
a little bit of research about the history of Bond girls.
They do tend to fall into three categories main side kick,
from fatale, sacrificial lamb, all three of which are like
not every story has all three casino royal us. According
to this, the main sidekick would be of Usperlind, the
fem fatal would be Volenka uh, and the sacrificial lamb

(34:09):
would be uh. Solange Demetrios, the wife who was the
fem fatale Valenka who poisons him. Yeah, his girlfriend. She
makes a mean face while she someone. So these are
the three main categories of Bond girl. Apparently it's Ian Fleming,

(34:32):
who seems generally pretty, pretty, gross and misogynistum, but he
says that the inspiration for all of the Bond girls
that appear in the franchise ever are based around this
woman named Muriel Wright, who she met when she was
twenty six and he was not twenty six. Um. She

(34:55):
was an independently wealthy model who was devoted to Fleming
to spite his repeated unfaithfulness, and then she died in
an air raid. And so then Ian Fleming was like,
I'll honor her memory by being rude to women until
I die, right, Because if we break down those three

(35:16):
Bond girl roles it's a woman who has to die
to further the plot. It's a woman who doesn't really
get her own story. She's just attached to the male heroes.
Or it is an evil, devious woman because women being
manipulative and like not just that, but like the using

(35:37):
her sexuality for evil. Yeah, and there's there's a few
other like tropes of the Bond girl that, and there's
so many that no one character like there's no complete
through lines. But several Bond girls have obvious sidnes of
inner turmoil, and others have traumatic pasts. Uh, several have
unhappy sexual backgrounds that we know about. So Rolled Dahl

(36:01):
wrote the screenplay to Charlie and the Chocolate Factory you
only liked twice, Okay, all these nine seventies like children's
authors like shelslo Verstein and Rolled all there out there
doing pervy, weird stuff on the side. So he wrote this.
But he said that when he was writing that screenplay,
he was explicitly told he was advised to use three

(36:23):
Bond girls. The first should die preferably in Bond's arms
early in the movie. The second a villain whom Bond
seduces before she dies in an unusual and gory way
midway through the movie, and the third who survives until
the end of the film. So this is like baked
into the formula to the point where they would just
tell a writer like, these three things should happen. I mean,

(36:46):
we're just looking around the room of the three of us, like,
obviously one of us is a film fatale, obviously, one
of us is a sacrificial lamb, and one of us
is uh, the sidekick the three categories of women. Like
so it actually lines very well, actually very accurate. It
for women. Yeah, I mean that's where we've all been
at one point. We've all been all of these Wow,

(37:06):
because women contain multitude. Oh my god, can we talk
about the sacrificial lamb first? I guess okay, I have
I take a lot of notes. I was in a
Starbucks in Culver City yesterday just going nuts, like wow, wow.
All of my lines begin with okay, well because like

(37:27):
even okay, we first see her. She's riding on a
horse on the beach, and the people on the beach
are happy to see this, and I'm like, that is
fucking disgusting. There's poop everywhere, and they have these three
random black kids who were just like smiling and running
after Yeah, they do like a close up of these
smiling black kids face and I'm like, for what, oh

(37:48):
black people co sign So it's like posensual and meaningful.
It's very I was so so dumb. And then are
supposed to believe that she's like this poorly treated put
upon woman because she goes into the casino. She hugs
Demetrius and he's like, you're two hours late, and then
she looks at James Bond like, see how I'm treated.
But if you were two hours late to a date

(38:09):
with me, I'm sorry. I have the right to be mad.
I'd be like, you're two hours late? And then she
was like, oh, sorry, I was out on a horse. Yeah,
so that's why I'm curious. I was like you why, No,
you're the jerk in this scenario, and Bond says he
negs her outside of the car. He's like because she's like, oh,
I don't go home with strange men, and he's like,

(38:29):
maybe you're just out of practice where it's like I
shouldn't have to prove it. I fuck I'm married right
this So much of the Bushey test can be applied
to this movie. If if Steve says that to a
woman outside of a car, even if he has an
aston Martin, She's still like, yeah, yeah. If Steve Buschevy says,

(38:51):
have you gone home with a strange man? Reason, they
exchanged maybe like six lines of dialogue, and she gets
into this stranger's car, and I was like, I know
what happens start like I've seen this movie before, and
I feel less bad because she's clearly not protect like
she's random strangers anybody. She's also this like you know,

(39:11):
exotic beauty with this yes European x, like an Italian
accent kind of thing. And yeah, it's like Daniel Craig
is ugly hot, Okay, he's like he's a category of men.
He is ugly. I'm into it. It's definitely my type.
But to act like this woman who is clearly with
some sort of millionaire man who lives on a fucking beach,

(39:32):
is going to be like, oh, box or face over here,
that's who I wanted to get with, Like what like
she would have been fucking a bell boy so long ago.
I have so many issues that absolutely not I mean
just like the whole building and I know it's like
so baked into his character. But the idea that James Bond,
regardless of which actors playing him, is just inherently irresistible

(39:55):
to all women because it's like even his smaller interactions
with women, because he, you know, flir with a number
of like secretaries and sieragees and they're all like, yes,
like you wouldn't do that to any random daddy off
the street, which is ultimately he's like an upper scale,
good looking dad. You wouldn't like that. The receptionist at

(40:16):
that the hotel or whatever in the Bahamas is like
fucking him with her eyes, and I'm like, why she
has to change her pants. Yeah, she's like you a man,
a regular ass looking dude. Oh my god. Also, they
this is a pet peep of mine in this movie.
Outside of the concierge lady, none of the people who

(40:37):
work for this hotel are white. And then so the
idea that this like James Bond, is going to be
just tying issue and someone's gonna be like hey you,
and I'm like, oh no, they would have been like
where's the black person that park start like it just
it drove me insane. But I do look forward to
a future when white people are also accused of working
wherever they happened to be. I was like progress, but

(41:00):
what no, oh my god, and this I mean, this
is on topic for what you were just saying. But
like the way that Africans are treated in this movie, yeah,
is because you see scenes in Uganda and in Madagascar,
and it can tell the difference because in Uganda the
black people are very shiny and sweaty, and in Madagascar

(41:21):
they are dusty, and that means we are in a
different place. Yes, it's raining in one place and not
in the other. I feel like this is very common
of a lot of movies, especially of this genre. But
if you see Africans, they are all like militant militia,
like money power grubbing, like just violent people and largely

(41:43):
used as scenery. Yeah, like when they like they follow
a little black kids running around and it's like, hey,
you know, exotic, It's like And then the in the
scene where James Bond kills those two guys in the stairwell,
one of them is fighting with a machete, and I
find that, like, I wish they would stop making Africans
fight with machetes, like act like these people have weapons yeah,

(42:06):
but they're like, no, no, no, never mind, what is
the culturally appropriate thing that I should have because he's
wearing like a three piece where he only brought so
infuriated because he well, he had the machete because he
was going to chop off a woman's arm because you know,
it was impractical, No one would ever bring a machete

(42:29):
to I mean, but I mean it's the suggestion that, like,
these people are so primitive that they are gonna they're
gonna chop off limbs. And it's like, well, and also
like right before that fight, when they capture the f
fatal girlfriend, it's like that is such an old image
of like black men taking these virginal white girls, and like,
oh no, James Bond has to rescue this virginal white

(42:50):
girl who later tries to kill him. Uh, and then
he murders two black men and it's fine because he
sucks their blood off of Eva Green's fingers. Hated that
when they're ruining very expensive clothes and he's like he
sits down next to he puts his arm around her.
Did she ask her that? Whatever? Okay? But then he's like, oh,

(43:11):
like I'll make it better and he sucks on her
figures and then he says better and she's like, yeah,
she's like rocking back and forth, like having a like
a fit. And then he was just like, let me
just look, she was having a full on. I mean,
but to be fair, that was one of the only
reactions in the movie that made sense. I'm like, she
is an accountant. She did not sign up to watch

(43:33):
two men die by someone she doesn't know. That well,
like it's oh god, we're all over the back, back
to solanch Um. I just yeah, that character, she's not
around for very long um, and then how does she die?
So here's what happens. Basically, Bond uses her to get
information from her on her husband, which she knows. She mentions,

(43:59):
and then they're dry humping on the floor in another
very two thousand six stress. Yeah, that's like that weird
sort of sat team not sat in exactly, but like
this shiny thing that hang on you. I guess if
it gets wet, it's ruined forever. So he invites her
to his room. She, for reasons that don't make any sense,

(44:20):
agrees to it. I guess because it's implied. Yeah, she's
like this horny housewife whose husband doesn't love her enough
for something, and then he uses her and then like
orders some champagne and caviare for her, and then she
didn't just like while she goes to the bathroom, he's like, yeah, chip, okay, cool,

(44:42):
Wait what no for one? Just for one? And yeah.
She's also I don't know like what background it's implied
that she's from, but I felt like she was like
pretty exoticized. Yeah, like the way her character was treated,
like she just can't help herself, she has to have
sex with and there's that whole this exchange to m

(45:02):
P laugh where it's just so like James Bond cheesy
or she's like, I had so many chances to be happy,
so many nice guys. We can't nice guys be more
like you, and then he says because then they'd be bad.
I was like he went there. And then so the
next scene we see her in she is a dead body.

(45:25):
She's dead in a hammock, like tangled up in a
hammock because Lachief's people had her killed for talking to
Bond and giving him any information. I think it was
Lash's people. It's hard to tell. There seems to be
a lot of bad guys in this movie. It's so cool.
And it's like the fact that in two thousand and
six they're like, no, that's still has to be a
core element of these stories. There's so many ways he

(45:45):
could have gotten that information. Uh, woman didn't need to
die for it, right, he is a spy, like he
can't just follow the guy around. The fact that he
used aren't horny. He Yeah, he uses a woman to
get information that he easily could have gotten somewhere else,
and based on his personal history, he should be more

(46:06):
concerned for her safety. Right, If a woman you've slept
with dies, you should figure that out. Well, I mean
you he sees women as being disposable. So, um, we
got to take another quick break, but we'll come back
and talk about more of the ladies. Do do darn No,

(46:38):
that's still right. Yeah, I keep being really nervous. I'm
going to slip into Mission impossible accident that I was
so afraid when we started. I was like, oh no,
it's the wrong one. I mean it's confusing. Also, they
work for m I six not to be confused with
Mission Impossible six. Oh yeah, God, there's such a different
movie where what if they had really just jumped the

(47:01):
Shark with a Daniel Craig franchise, and they're like, no,
his dick gets cut off, and now we've got Eunich
Jimmy Bobo out here navigating the world without a penis
probably being a way better. He can hack into EM's
house and computer. He clearly has access to all of

(47:22):
these things. He does not need to funk these women
to get this. His dick is really what's holding him
back for being an exceptional spot And honestly, I think
that's true of a lot of people. If we could
just get like, not all the dicks. I'm not crazy like,
but sure some of the dicks would help people achieve
their full ste more clarity, I mean horny nous in general.

(47:43):
If people were less horny, imagine what we could More
people need to be neutered. This is platform like for
a less horny future. Please elect me. I think I
think the biggest flaw of this movie is the it
Q is not present, and Q, of course is his

(48:04):
friend who comes in later who makes like gadgets and
stuff for him, who is played by Ben Wish Show
a k a. Paddington. So he's got like flopsy hair.
He's looking cute. He's like every guy I dated in
grad school. It's perfect, thinner than me. But I have

(48:26):
to live with that in my brain. It's so moving
on to them. Fatale. We don't know that much about her,
including her name. I don't do we even ever learn
her name on the screen. I don't think so. And
she's credited as being named Volenka, but I'm assuming that's
because she has a name in the book, Okay, because
I don't think we ever hear it on screen. She

(48:48):
is the first time you see a woman on screen
in the whole movie. I believe it's around nineteen minutes
into the Yeah, she's like there's like a male gaze
shot where she's like she's popped out of the water.
She's wearing a she's drenched, and then she climbs onto
this yacht and then she like walks through a poker
game and then a number of times people walk through

(49:10):
poker games like that's cool. Is insane to me? Like
it's so soaking wet there, this is a mega yat. Okay,
you could go to another floor. You don't have to
do this in front of everyone, like so, and her
crossing that room just starts out a scene of that
poker We could just cut straight to the poker game.
We don't need to see a woman getting out of

(49:30):
the water and then like toweling off as like. But
it's just like we haven't had a James Bond movie
in four years. People forget what the kinis are, they
forget what objectification feels like, and we have to remind them. Yeah,
I don't know. And then she's later there's that moment
with the two men that James Bond eventually kills, who
I don't think her named either. Are they the two

(49:53):
African Machean not Machell. She's like captured by them, and
we're supposed to be like, we have to say this
virginal white girl. But then it turns out the twist
is women are bad and she tries to poison them
and then she dies as well, doesn't she? Um, where

(50:14):
does her story leave off? She's around? I think when
they're like cutting a hole in the chair to put
James Bond in, I think, doesn't she leave lead vesper
off into another room? Think? So, if she does die,
it happens off screen, and it's implied that we don't
really know for sure. But if she is with them
as Vespers being tortured. It's implied that all the people

(50:36):
except for Vesper get killed. So if she dies, it
happens off screen, but you know, but she can assume
that she might die. She's she's not even a particularly
like interesting or good from Fatale, but she's there because
she's only on screen for maybe a combined total of
two minutes. Like she's hardly in them. She doesn't have
any lot, Like she doesn't even get like a cool

(50:56):
catchphrase like no you got like vim k Jensen would
like say like some nonsense after like pussy killing someone,
Like she would say something cool and you're like, oh wow,
that's what she's nut, Like there was something there, but
this was just like she silently poisons people, right. I
think she says one line like I'm sorry. She's she's

(51:17):
classy classic. You get one line and it is you apologizing.
She's apologizing to the she because I guess she knew
the bad guys were there in the room, and because
like right after that they attack him. So I guess
it's implied that she knew that they were about to
attack him, or that she sold him out or something.

(51:39):
I don't quite know, but yeah, we see so little
of her that it it's like I can't make heads
tail because they always show her back. But she's there
to be. I don't know, Like I mean, clearly this
franchise has never regard for women whatsoever. But like not,
I mean, I guess Vesper kind of ends up to
be a similar thing of like she's not what you thought.

(52:01):
She's duplicitous and like she's you know, she's fooling you,
she's lying to you. All the women are deceitful above
all because they want your money and they want your
penis and I want to you know, like all this ship.
Um so that's val So, just to recap, we see
her sexualized, We see her being brutalized. She poisons our hero,

(52:23):
and then it's implied that she dies. Yeah, which is
very exact same thing Solange minus the poisoning. She is sexualised,
she is brutal as she is murdered. Let's talk Vesper.
She's not like the other girls that Vesper. She's kind
of working for four years like she I'm sorry, it

(52:43):
made me so mad when I found out that she
was only twenty six, and I'm like the way he
negs her at the beginning where he's like, you wear
managed clothes and you tried to act tough and that's
why you're not promoted. I like, like in the four
years since college, like she's already being put in charge
of ten million dollars. I think she's doing. Let's unpack

(53:05):
that scene where they made each other because there's so
much of I wasn't expecting a scene like that. I
hated it. But um, from the reviews that I read
at the time, this is supposed to be like it's
one of the only two times James Bond quote unquote
falls in love in any of the movies. Ever. I
guess it happens in one other movie in the late sixties,

(53:25):
but she is killed after they get married. Um, and
then he goes back to being an asshole. But this
is Vesper is the only other woman he like, actually
falls in love with, and possibly it considers quitting the
swinging dick lifestyle. So this is supposed to be like James,
but Jimmy Boba finally meets his match and there's just

(53:46):
like it's such corny dialogue where he's like, your beauty
is a problem. You worry you won't be taken seriously,
and then she says which one could say if any
woman would have a brain, and we're like, yes, queen.
And then and then he's like true, he says like
you're saying, and he's overly masculine clothing, more aggressive than
her female colleagues, which gives her a sort of prickly

(54:07):
demeanor and ironically enough, makes it less likely she'll be
respected and promoted by her male superiors, who mistake her
baits for arrogance, right, and then she looks at him
like you've got me right, Oh, you're right. The fact
that I have any confidence is a game. Yeah. But
then she like turns it back on him because he's

(54:28):
this whole scene serves to be like, look how good
I am at poker. I'm so good at reading people.
So he's like reading her, and then she turns it
right back on him. She's like, well, you're an orphan
who wears suits that look like shit, yeah, which was
cool as saying you wear it. And then he looks
at her like, oh, perhaps Jimmy Bobo has met Tom.

(54:49):
And then she's just like I'm not gonna suck you
nice ass though, and he's like thank you, just before that,
she says, she's like, am I sex looks for maladjusted
young man who give little to sacrificing others in order
to protect queen and country. And then a little bit
later she says, you think of women as disposable pleasures
rather than meaningful pursuits. I don't think women should be
looked at his meaningful pursuits either. But but it's like

(55:13):
that was her line where I was like a heart
in the right place, right, But again, it feels this
is one of many examples as we see of like
the woman character who we're supposed to like saying something
that is vaguely feminist, but it feels so empty because
of everything else that happens in the movie. So it's like,
because she's calling attention to him like his habitual mistreatment

(55:36):
of women, but then with kind of like a nod
in a wink to this entire misogynist franchise. Remember how
you used to literally punch women in the face, right,
But then the movie still treats women like ships, so
it means something sneaky. And then she's like, yeah, you
have a hot ass though, yeah, and then he's like

(55:58):
thanks for noticing, and in the car ride to the hotel,
they're talking about how they have adjoining rooms, and she's like,
I'm not gonna have to worry about you and that
just like you're not gonna have to worry about him
coming into your room, and is that you have to
ask him to be again. It's like, you're not going
to rape me again. It's like she's an accountant, that

(56:19):
this is such a crazy concern for an accountant to have.
She's like, no, you're not my type, not that I'm
mora really opposed to going into your room. Your your
sting also gross. She goes smart and he goes single.
I was like, oh, so you're a bad person. I'm
a bad person. I'm not a rapist, so um great, right,

(56:41):
And then because of this weird who who knows who
made the choice that she has to go from being
an accountant to a spy who's undercover and in love
with him too, Like it has to be his hand
because I was like, who would be the one to
make this call? Would it be judy? I don't I
guess whose jurisdiction? But that happens, and it's and we've

(57:05):
already discussed that that's ludicrous. But then he uses that
excuse to take a lot of liberties with her body, surprise,
kissing her, groping at her. She is like resisting a
lot of the time at first, and he's still just like,
we have to maintain this cover that you're in love
with me immediately broke upon entering this hotel. What are

(57:25):
you talking about? Which is so not necessary? I mean
it's like just so not necessary to his success in
this poker game. Uh to, I'll be like forcing himself
on this woman he just met. I guess the idea
is like, well, you're a woman who is attractive conventionally,
so I'm gonna use you to distract the other players

(57:47):
so that I can win. And then it's like again
kind of like you're saying, Caitlin, there's like these empty
like well she has she's she's got his number two
where he brings in that dress. He's like, you're going
to wear this dressey're gonna kiss my neck? And then
she's like, well, I got you a jacket dinner jacket, right,
And then that's like the empty like, oh no, she's

(58:08):
not powerless in this situation. She bought him a jacket, right.
But that's the thing with her character is that like
she yeah, she always has like a rebuttal or, she's like,
your jacket sucks. I sized you up the moment I
tell you. And the idea that the movie is putting
forward is that like, oh, he's met his match. All

(58:29):
other women are lame and stupid, but she's not like
the other girls, and she can like match his wits
and his whole thing. I mean, they're all lame and stupid.
But you have to throw your dicket there. You have to,
you have to throw your body and launch it there.
And ultimately, with with her, it's it sucks because it's

(58:49):
just like with with these characters, even when you're given
this empty feminist like it reminded me of that thing
we talked about all the time, where like women in
action movies get to do one thing and everyone's like, wow,
look at her, go go girl power. But it's like
empty and means nothing, and it's just to like throw
the s j w's off. But we're not thrown off there.

(59:12):
But she like ultimately she has no motivation outside of
establishing a domestic life with James Bond because after all
this stuff happens, she I mean, and it's like we
find out she's a double agent, but we're led to
believe like we don't know what her ambition in life is.
It seems like she's got a pretty powerful job that

(59:33):
she can apparently just leave. She to go on a
boat in Venice, a high ranking money manager for England.
But she's just like, no, you're gonna like be my
basically be my husband, and you know, pulls him away
and and takes on this nurturing role for him where
there's a weird line where she was like, if you

(59:53):
were just a smile and a little finger, I'd still
fuck you. And it's like that it is looked up
stuff like are you going to finger her with your
pinky or like rub her? What do you? What do you?
What do you do with a pinky face? Costically and

(01:00:15):
they just um, But yeah, it's just she's ultimately like
we don't know anything about her. The logistics of her
character are paid. There's no attention. We don't know what
she wants in life rather than to be hanging out
with James Bond. Well, I would argue that she is
all three things. She is also a fem fatale and
also a sacrificial lamb, because I kill her because she

(01:00:36):
sacrifices herself and by drowning herself in the elevator when
that right, And she's a feen fatale because she like
double crossed Bond and like sucks him over, So she's
kind of like all three of those roles by the end.
So it's because she's like that fem fatale type. We
don't know like did she love him or was that

(01:00:58):
just all part of like the news Yeah, and then
it's like ultimately it's like a double punch in the
stomach of it's then revealed that no, her real motivation
was to save a different guy who you've never met
and never will and we just needed to kill her
or get rid of her because women never come back
for a second movie, so she has to. And it's

(01:01:19):
it looks like that's not like the Bond girl doesn't
always die, but it's not out of the question because
it's just canonically women don't come back, and Daniel Craig
gets a million page We talked about that on the
Mission Impossible episode too, so if you want more discussion
on you know, disposable women, but the man keeps the

(01:01:40):
corps of men get to keep coming back, but the ladies.
You never see him again. Yeah, there's a scene where
she's like coming on to him aggressively in like whatever hospital,
like very fancy hospital's recovering in, Yeah, and he has
a sexy hospital and he's like, oh, you used to

(01:02:01):
hate me, And she's like, I'm afraid I'm a complicated woman.
And he's like, oh, that is something to be afraid of. Okay,
I'm tired. Um it's unfortant. I mean I feel like, yeah,
for two thousand and six, I think that unfortunately, this
was an attempt at a more empowered Bond girl. But

(01:02:22):
I mean it's like but, but compared to the others,
it's like they're like, look, he doesn't hit her, and
he doesn't like treat her like she's the stupidest person
in the world. So it's like unfortunately, and Bond heads
leap into our swan dive into our mentions. It seems
like for this particular like very toxic franchise, this would

(01:02:45):
be progress, but they abandoned that because in the specter
he's dating someone who's like twenty two years younger than like,
because the whole movie I was like, oh, good, maybe
either she'll find out that like that's her dad, or
she's the daughter of someone who is very close to him.
But yeah, and I'm like, there's no way they're gonna
oh they Oh so they're gonna this? No, absolutely not.

(01:03:08):
This is this is why Specter is the bottom one.
It's not good. Oh gosh. Also, the mathist character is
like constantly explaining to Vesper what's happening in the poker game.
And that is obviously there because the audience, if you're
not familiar with poker, like there needs to be like
expository dialogue to be like, oh, here's what the bed

(01:03:30):
is or here's how this is going to play out.
But like, why not make Vesper the one who knows poker,
who's the one who's like give her a thing? It
makes sense. She's an accountant, she's a numbers person, Like
it would make sense that she would know she might
know poker, and that's why she would be able to
say with authority, no, I'm not going to give you
this additional five million dollars because I know how this

(01:03:52):
should be played and I understand it, and you don't
have the ability to carry this off, and I know
that that would make her better, But no, she doesn't
know anything, because women can't know anything. It's always the
man who know the stuff. And the reason she denies
him the money is connected to that same through line
of just her being flippant towards James Bond, and that's
how she's the match for him, because she won't give

(01:04:15):
him whatever he wants right away. She will make him
wait as many as two minutes to give him exactly
what he wants. There's that scene where he's arguing with
her and she's like, I'm not gonna you're a bloody
arrogant way, and then he's like, you're a bloody idiot,
screams at her for being an idiot because she won't
give him money that he's constantly so it's very cool. Also,

(01:04:39):
the men in this story are commenting on her looks constantly.
I hate math this or whatever, like hey, he's like
talking to James Bond like she isn't there for when
they're having this introductory making and then he's like, oh,
sometimes the mellane and he like touches her shoulder in
this weird way and like clearly he's like, I'm straight
up looking at your boobs right now. I'm not hiding
it and I'm seeing your for tin man, I'm looking

(01:05:01):
in his eyes letting him know that I'm looking at
your It's like, right, crazy, Yeah, I would tell you
you're beautiful. But everybody's still staring at you. And she's like, hey,
you're there. This is their job. They're at work, and
they're still just like You're like, that is not appropriate workplace.

(01:05:22):
The last, the last thing I wanted to talk about
was Judy Dench's character. This seems to be one of
the only things this movie does that is like, I think,
unequivocally right, because this was a character who's always played
by a man who it's like, but now it's Judy Dench.
I liked that a lot. Um I guess that m
Jimmy Bobo's boss. Judie Bobo's Bobo was previously played by

(01:05:48):
John Houston, David Niven, Edward Fox, Bernard Lee, Robert Brown,
and Ralph Finds. Yeah, oh yeah, because a guy fall
because you know, oh shit, I forgot Yeah, so's he's
playing it now, but he's not in the mix at
this time this time. But Judy Dinch was also m

(01:06:09):
in some of the Pures Brosnan ones, so she's carried through. Yeah, okay,
that part for me was cool. It's like she is,
even though there's not a lot of things of substance
that happens in the scene, she does know who caused
nine eleven. She doesn't seem worried about it. It is
not that important. But they never tell the American spy like, oh, hey,

(01:06:29):
bet that thing that happened in your gut that's a
long ago. I feel like you should know. They're still
holding on to a grudge from years ago. They're like, yeah,
we know who caused nine eleven, but we're not going
to tell them. Here's my thing with m is that.
So she assumes this kind of like trophy boss role

(01:06:51):
where she's like this stiff by the book's boss who
doesn't like our heroes methods because they're a little unorthodox.
But then because he gets results, she's meant to look
kind of like wrong and foolish for not believing in him.
So she's like, oh, we have to do things by
the rules, and he's like, no, I'm too cool for that.

(01:07:12):
I'm going to do things my way, and then she's like,
you were right. So like, I feel like she's kind
of made out to like look a little like, hey,
you should be more lenient with your stuff. You're too
stuffy over there, Judy. So that was my main thing
with them well, and she's also constantly advising I do
think the character is written to be more of a

(01:07:33):
female character just the way she communicates with him, And
she's also constantly advising him to repress his emotions, where
she I don't know, I'm just like I did. Did
the did the male versions of this character talk this
much about emotional compartmentalization? Doesn't seem like it's something that
James bonds male boss of me, but she brings it
up like two or three times of like yeah, like yeah,

(01:07:55):
you need to you know, you need to be sure
that you know you're keeping your emotions. And I don't
think you'll have a problem with that though, and he's like,
no way, never looked at her dead, it doesn't matter.
I don't care about any of this and what he
was saying at that moment, and then she's like, okay,
nine eleven, see you later. You're like no dark. She
is also if you can hear like banging happening on

(01:08:16):
this recording, we don't know what it's from, but sorry
about it. Were best. It's the metronome of life. Yeah, yeah,
the heartbeat of the earth. I guess my final thoughts
for this movie, or this whole franchise, this whole thing,
is that these movies go to great lengths to be like, look,
how freaking cool James Bond is. He dressed as well.

(01:08:41):
He's charming, he's classy, he's very good at betting women.
He drives cool cars, he wears cool watches, he says
quippy lines and kills guns. Yeah, and he's good. He's good.
So the male audience who these movies are targeted toward
are seeing this and they're gobbling it up. They're like, Oh,

(01:09:02):
this is how you'd be cool by mistreating women and
dressing good. All right. I mean this is like one
of the seminal examples of like how young men, because
it's like the movies like this are are targeted at
horny uncles, but also boys. Yeah, where it's just like
this is like a blueprint, and it's like the further
you go back in this franchise, the worse and worse against.

(01:09:23):
But even if you're a young boy that sees something
like this, it's just like said, it just hardwares your
brain all sorts of fucked up ways, and I would
I mean, it's like, if you were to guess, like,
what are the top five film franchises that whire boys
brains the wrong way on how to treat women, I
would say this, this would be there to one of them. Yeah,

(01:09:46):
and it's going strong, baby, it is going strong. And
there is also one they're making a new I think
this is Daniel Craig's last one, this Swan song. There
was worth saying. Last year, Uh, there was a James
Bond producer where I think there was some like they
were like, who's going to take over for Daniel Craig.
Maybe we'll get a black James Bond. Maybe we'll get
a female James Bond. And the producers were like, you

(01:10:07):
will not get a female Bund James Bond. Ever, like
it was they were very close. We need Jamie Bond.
We need to me to Jamie Bond. First of all,
I'm very strong, um, and I fucked constantly and it
does ruin. It makes me worse at my job. So

(01:10:29):
I think that there's a lot there. I also I'm
just like I'm sort of over all female reboots of
fundamentally flawed franchises, but the fact that they were just
like nope, fuck you, no way. You're like, well, now
I kind of want it. Any other final thoughts, Um, yes, okay,
so I have been in love with mad Nicholson for

(01:10:52):
a long time. It is part of the reason why
I was like, we have to all see this. I'm
making all of my friends come to this movie. That
is You're right, Jamie. I did not realize how fucking
long it was. They're already in Montenegro and I'm like, oh,
there's gotta be like, what like twenty five minutes. There's
another hour in eight minutes to the film. I was
shocked that it was as long as it was, and
half longer. It's over the top. They could have cut

(01:11:14):
most of the scenes where where he's doing something. Um,
I am asthmatic, and I hate that they villainize asthma
in this movie because he's like, he's like sinister, like
in his shaking of his inhaler and using it. I'm like, Okay,
some of us just can't breathe that well, and I
don't think that that has to be a sign that

(01:11:34):
we're bad people. I was very upset by the representation
of unacceptable. Actually, I had one question for the room.
Do you both think that a feminist version of the
James Bond character is possible? I mean, it would have
to be. It wouldn't have to like disrupt basically everything

(01:11:57):
we know about James Bond, because the one of the
any things so it's known about him is that he
is a womanizer. So like you gotta strip that whole
identity from him. Well, I think that there's a way.
I think that there's a way that he can still
like you can have a lot of sex and be
not feminist. Like it's like I think that there's a
way that he could hook up with a bunch of

(01:12:18):
women and treat them with respective She wouldn't do it
all the time, not enough, but it's been done. I
feel like it could. It would have to be almost
in the way that like I feel like there's a
number of horror films now where a character something that
happened when they were a child or something comes back
and they're like, well, we were kids, and oh I didn't,
but I didn't. You would have to have something that
makes him confront like oh, and like just I would

(01:12:39):
love it if it was like pictures of all the
women that he slept with who were dead, and it's
like you're toxic, and he's like being like he's like
being tortured, but like also being forced to see, like, hey,
you like all these things that you've done. Maybe this
isn't the mission. Doesn't love for James for there to
be a major component of a James but maybe, like
the movie after Daniel Craig, he takes a good, long,

(01:13:00):
hard look at himself. Yes, I want it. I don't
think that. I mean, they're never going to do that,
but I would love to see it. It would be
so good. Like they're again. I have very little knowledge
of this franchise, but just based on like the fact
that the character has changed over time and he still
doesn't treat women well, but treat them differently, Like it
seems like this is a malleable character. The actor changes.

(01:13:22):
It's like it seems like they're there's at least if
we're never going to get a female James Bond whatever,
I don't even want that. I want a woman to
have her own franchise, But there seems like there's a
version of this character that could still drink, fight and
fuck and not be horrible. To women. Sure yea, So

(01:13:44):
Mr Hollywood, if you're listening, I mean sorry, just real quick.
In Skyfall, there is a character who has to pay
for the consequences of how am I six operates in
how not whatever group there in yet who does to
answer for that? And it's not James Bond. It's Judy
Dench Like so she has to deal with the consequences

(01:14:06):
of like this lifestyle what it means because someone's like, hey,
here's a mirror to like what you guys actually do.
But yeah, it doesn't affect James Bond at all. He
doesn't change, He still works around, he still takes actions there,
he destroys city blocks and kill millions of brown people,
but like cares you know? Oh man, Well, I'm holding

(01:14:26):
out hope for James Bond. Ally holding out hope. I
mean if we get Idris elba As is often discussed
he's too busy doing his HBO DJ show what he is?
Oh it dropped. I haven't seen it yet. My boyfriend
watched it, but there's an Idris elba DJ show on HBO. Anyways,

(01:14:50):
this might be his Ballers. Just famous actor gets shitty
HBO show for no reason. I love it. Anyways Elba
I would Yeah, he would be incredible. Indeed, um, does
this movie pass the Betel test? Now? It doesn't even
come close. Women do not even interact or I think,
or even in the same scene. There's one scene where
he's like, it's not Mr Beach or whatever, it's Mr

(01:15:13):
Bond and he's talking to a hotel receptionist. She is
not talking to the hotel receptionist. She doesn't resume talking
until they walk away from that other woman. Right, yeah,
they can't actually see each other. Yeah, it's not Mr
but it's Mr Bond. That's my favorite line in the movie. Um, yeah, No,
women don't even know each other in this movie. Nope. Well,

(01:15:35):
how many nipples will we get this? I'm gonna go
with a zero. Yep, yep, zero. I'm gonna go with
a zero as well. All right, yeah, I will go
with half the nipple, all of which goes to Judy
Dench because she, like, when I was a kid, I
was like, she's the cool She's the one charge she
tells everybody would do They all do it. That's true. Okay,

(01:15:59):
I will also give a half nipple, all right, I'm zero.
I will for Judy and and for the baldest woman
being in charge, that rule being abided by. I will
give you half an nipple everything else with bullshit. Indeed, Canice.
Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so

(01:16:19):
much for having me. I listen to the show. I
love it, Gosh, thank you, and listen to if You're
If you're on our matreon, I loved our Back to
the Future episodes on our matreon. What good they're doing? Yeah,
sign up, um cannese. Where can people follow you online?
Is there anything you'd like to plug? They can follow
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(01:16:42):
Katie and I C E M O B L E
Y and I have a podcast called Love about Town
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(01:17:05):
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(01:17:30):
Do Do do do? He hates women, women, bad person
all right, Bye bye