Crazy, Stupid, Love. with Samee Junio

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women and um are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best
start changing it with the bel Cast. Hey, Jamie, Yeah, Caitlin,
you're the perfect combination of sexy and cute? Can I

(00:22):
buy you a drink? Yeah? Wait, I'm sorry. All my
judgment just went out the window because you said that.
I'm what, You're the perfect combination of sexy and cute.
Do you want to get out of here? Do you
want to go home and have sex with me right now?
Only if you lift me up like a scene. And
I can't even do I can't even I can't even

(00:43):
keep up with this charade. Oh my gosh, today today's episode.
I we were just having this is the Betel Cast Comma.
We were just having a conversation off Mike, the three
of us. I what do you mean the Comma Bechdel
Comma cast period? Exactly? Exactly. Oh my god, there's so

(01:06):
many I have a list of like things that every
movie in two thousand eleven did that. I'm just so
glad that we're just out of the woods. There punctuation
in the movie title is one of one of those
things that you're just like, oh my god, you really
think that you're doing something here, You think you're being
so serious. Anyways, I initially went in, I think reasonably,

(01:31):
assuming that our our guest today, a returning guest, brought
this movie to us, because that's how our show works,
that's how it's worked for almost five years now. And
then I learned that it was you. It was my idea.
But you're the spy, You're you're how do you say
his name? I'm not all listen, I'm not all listen?

(01:53):
Is that it? I struggled with his name, like I
struggled with I can't do it well. What happened? What
had happened is that, um, we've we've been wanting to
get our guests back on the podcast. It's a secret.
Even though it's a secret, their name is in the
title there. We've been wanting to get Sammy back on

(02:15):
the podcast, and we'll Sammy will let you talk in
a minute. No, Caitlyn's dombing this episode. He's wearing a
suit instead of forty. Yeah. I bought new shoes and

(02:36):
I'm so confident now because Ryan Gosling tossed your ship, like,
oh my god. That was one of the cutaway shots
from this movie. Is I wish you could seen Steve
Carrell's stinky new Balance just like knocking a twelve year
old unconscious and at the bottom of that mall. I
was like, that's so, that's such reckless behavior to throw
a midlife crisis person's new balance off away. But we've

(03:01):
been wanting to get Sammy back on the podcast for
a while, um, but the movie wasn't. It didn't come
into focus what movie it was going to be until
recently this movie came up in conversation between Sammy and
I and I was like, oh, this is the one,
let's do it on the podcast. So yes, it was
my idea. And I'm sorry everyone, I'm so sorry cruel

(03:23):
and unusual of you, but it's it is a pretty
commonly requested episode, Yeah it is. And it's one of
those commonly requested episodes that I'm like, to what end?
Sometimes we just we get these requests and I'm just like,
do you wanted me to watch that? If you wanted

(03:44):
us to um evisceraate it, then you're in for a treat.
That's what we're about to do. He requested this movie.
We're fighting right now. I cannot believe. Yeah. Well, okay,
So this is the Bectel Cast. This is our podcast
where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using
the Bechtel test as a jumping off point, which is

(04:06):
a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel that
is sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace test, and it requires,
for our our rendition of the test, two people of
a marginalized gender have names speak to each other about
something other than a man for a two line exchange
of dialogue. I can it be done? Honestly hard to say.

(04:28):
I couldn't reach a conclusion for this movie. Maybe it did,
I don't even I don't. I don't think so, I
don't think. Okay, I don't think like, did I miss
a rogue exchange? Like? I don't think it that, which
is ridiculous. It's ridiculous. Oh god. Anyway, So today's movie

(04:50):
is crazy Comma stupid, Comma love period. So already we're
off to a bad start. Let's bring in our amazing
guest that i'd like to follow eyes to an advance. Yes,
we are so say we are so sorry, Sammy say introduced. Sorry, sorry, sorry, Okay.

(05:23):
They are a producer. They're a writer on Let's Gots
Go and Ohio And you remember them from our episode
on She's the Man. It's Sammy Junio. Welcome back. Thank
you for inviting me for this episode on He's the Man.
Am I right? Wow? It makes you think that was

(05:45):
a joke that I texted you about. Also, we should mention,
I mean your your name gets brought up a lot
in many episodes because you're also our road dog when
we when we go on tour, you often check our shows.
Another major credit for you. It's huge. It's actually on

(06:05):
the top of my resume. I don't even put my name.
I just put road dog in all caps. Oh my god. Okay,
what a time to be alive. Sammy. What is your
relationship with this movie? I have it on DVD and
I bought it recently, not maybe in the past three years.

(06:30):
I am not embarrassed about it, but also deeply embarrassed
about it. Um. I think that's appropriate. Yes, I understand,
I understand why it's I I'm so sorry everyone, Jamie.
What's your history what's your relationship? I didn't see this one.

(06:54):
I feel like I saw a lot of movies like
this when it came out, Like the really two thousand
tens were like just there were so many movies like
this where it's like, Okay, here's my pitch. It's a
really famous comedian, but they're not. But you'll never laugh.
It's two hours long and there's a ton of improv.

(07:15):
How dare this movie be two hours long? Two hours long? There?
The movie poster has a disembodied woman's leg on it.
Headless women of Hollywood shout out, I just I just
at oh and the clincher brought to you by the
writer of Cars. You're just like what? There were so

(07:38):
many like Midlife. I was talking about this with my
boyfriend recently. Of like Steve Carrell went through this phase
where he's like, I'm just going to be in a
bunch of movies that say they're funny but they're not
and they're really long. It's like this Dan in real
life like there and Kristen Wig went through a similar
phase where it's just in a bunch of expensive indie
movies that sucked and we're long, and you're just like

(08:00):
why are you making me see these? They make me
they you know, we were we were there, we were there.
It wasn't good, and now it's over. This is weird.
I mean, it's kind of interesting to me. I've never
seen this movie, is the answer to the question. But
even like I don't know, it's watching movies that are
like ten years old. Is always like oh, wild Zone

(08:22):
because it looks dated, but it feels familiar enough. Like
phones in this movie wild blackberries, so many blackberries, miss I,
miss I wish I had had a BlackBerry? There are
they just gone? They're never coming back. They're trying. There's
like a version of it where it's still the little typer,

(08:43):
but then also it's touch screen, but like the touch
screen is like two point five inches. It's wild. Why
did they do that? Um? This? Yeah, this, this movie
is really encapsulated a very particular moment. What's your history
of the Caitlin? My history is that I saw it

(09:04):
maybe like a year after it came out or so.
This this is not the type of movie that would
have drawn me to the theaters. But I like people
were like, oh, it's good, it's so it's fun. You'll
like a hundred almost a hundred fifty million dollars, but
also it cost fifty million dollars, which is like what

(09:26):
I'm guessing the budget went to like Steve Correll and
Ryan Wardrobe, and also the insurance for the shoe toss right,
there were there were actual casualties for that. It was
not good well. And and then going back to the
length of the movie, which again is two hours for

(09:46):
what's supposed to be a rom com, way too long,
but I read according to our favorite scholarly journal, Wikipedia,
the original cut of this movie was three hours long
and they had to edit out an entire hour. There.
My favorite Wikipedia detail for this movie is that is
this Uh. The film was developed under the working title

(10:08):
untitled Marital Crisis Comedy. I think they should have stuck
with that. They should have stuck with it because the
title of the movie is using a bunch of dated
words that we're trying not to use anymore. Uh. And
and oh, a fun, fun twist was in the middle
of the movie because there's a young daughter in this movie.

(10:30):
The daughter that isn't the twist, which is like, I
don't want to twist daughter anyways. The young daughter is
Joey King kissing booz. Amazing twist. That was the best
twist of the movie for me, the twist that was
there the whole entire time. It took me a while

(10:50):
to figure it out because I was like, because you
don't see her face really for a long time, and
then you get a glimpse of her, like I don't know,
three quarters of the way through the movie, and you're like,
wait a minute, is that young Joey King? And sure
enough it is. She's iconic, She's great, Go Joey King. Yeah. So, anyway,
my history with this movie, I saw it like a

(11:11):
year or so after it came out. I was ambivalent
toward it, but I remember at the time thinking like, wow,
running Gosling is cool and what a good job he
does and making Steve Correll cool also. And I can't
believe I ever had those thoughts because looking back at
it now, we wash our hands of it. We live,

(11:31):
we learn, we live, and we learn. Yeah, so I
guess should I just get into the recap. Yeah, let's
party in the recap. I'm excited. I'm excited to really
just take out my pool floaty is and float around
in this recap. This Oh my god. Also I just

(11:52):
wanted to shout out the other child actor who is
We're not going to blame the child actor, but oh
my god, the kid who plays Robbie. His name is
Jonah Bobo, and you gotta admit that's a funny name.
Just wanted to shout out Jonah Bobo. Shout out. Okay.

(12:14):
So the movie opens on a married couple Cal that's
Steve Carrell and Emily that's Julianne Moore. And Emily announces
that she wants a divorce, and she also tells Cal
that she had sex with someone else, her co worker,
David Lyndhagen, David Linnagen. We learned that Cal and Emily

(12:38):
have two kids, or so we think it's only two kids,
but wait for it. Oh my god, this twist when
it's like they're using the same hair straightener and Julianne
Moore and emastone the whole time. It's like, come on, anyways.
One of the kids is Joey King. The other one
is thirteen year old Robbie Jonah Bobo Jonah Bobo. He

(13:00):
is in love with his babysitter, Jessica, who is seventeen
years old. Who does anyone remember her? From America's Next
Top Model. Oh yeah, she like was I don't know.
I didn't watch many seasons of that show, but she
was on one of the seasons I did watch. I
saw her in a piano bar when I was first

(13:21):
in l A and I passed away. She was so cool,
I like freaked out. Also, she is the same age
as Emma Stone. Oh, but playing a seventeen year old
I feel like Emma Stone is. I don't know how
old Emma Stones character is really supposed to be because
and also I liked, I liked. I enjoyed suspending my

(13:41):
disbelief that Steve Correll is only seventeen years older than
Emma Stone. That was fun for me. Right, that's a lie.
That's that is a lie. Um. I think she's twenty
five because they said that they've been married for twenty
five years and that they got married because they were
pregnant with her. So she's are you doing this movie?

(14:02):
Who cares? Um? So Robbie is in love with Jessica,
but Jessica is in love with cal Steve Carrell. Then
we cut to Hannah. That's im a Stone at a
bar with a friend Liz. Yes, love Liz wanted more
for Liz truly as the only person of color in

(14:23):
the movie I and she's so horny. I do feel represented.
I'll say it this kidding. It's really solid and responsible
representation to Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I remember her
from This is I'm I remember that actor Liza Lapira
from Don't Trust the be An Apartment twenty three, which

(14:47):
I like show. I liked that show too. Doesn't James
Vanderbeek play himself in that show? Am I remembering that correctly? Yeah?
It was. I'm sure that if you go back, it's
probably super dated, but I liked it when it was happening.
She was on it. Shout out, who care? Anyway, she

(15:08):
and Emma Stone are talking, and this is when Jacob
Ryan Gosling approaches Hannah and aggressively starts hitting on her.
Test this honey, like no, no, no no, But she
rejects him and leaves. So meanwhile Cal and Emily separate
and he goes to a bar to drown his sorrows

(15:31):
and he's loudly carrying on about having been cheated on
by his wife with David Lindhagen, and then Jacob is
also there, and Jacob is like sir, stop your whining,
stop being a loser. You look like shit. Here's what
I'm gonna do. I'm gonna help you rediscover your manhood,
and your wife will rue the day she left you.

(15:52):
He literally like holds out the red pill and it's
like take it, I dare you. Oh my goodness that
I did not realize. I didn't. I knew very I
thought this was just a really long early rom com.
I didn't realize that it was pick up artistry the movie. Yep, seriously,

(16:16):
what a move? What do you move to play a
pickup artistry story? Basically completely straight, like well, right right.
So then Jacob tells cal to meet him at the
Century City Mall food Court, which is neither the Glendale
Galleria nor the Americana, So like, why even fucking bother going? Wow,

(16:40):
I've I went to that mall to see Santa Oh.
One of the best, um, one of the best dated
shots in the movie is when Ryan Gosling is standing
in front of a gigantic Borders bookstore. You're like two eleven,
we were all there. Meanwhile, Hannah is celebrating something. I'm

(17:02):
not really sure she's celebrating. Lawyer, no, no, I think
that's correct because they were celebrating her beginning of studying
the book. Right. Yeah. They also call it a goodbye party,
but she doesn't to study. I think, yeah, she's leaving
to go study. Yeah, it's not clear, um, but she's

(17:25):
with a few friends, including her boyfriend Richard a k a.
Josh Grobin. Whatever. This his first role in a movie. Wow,
wild sha grow grow. I mean, okay, I take it back.
Good for him if this is his first role, he
did pretty good. Even though it's not no saying he's

(17:47):
in makes any human sense. That's not his fault, right,
that's that's the writing. Um. But Hannah thinks that he
might be proposing soon. Um. Cal. Then go to meet
Jacob at the mall q a shopping and make over montage,
which I mean, we can talk about this, but I

(18:08):
guess we get like a gender swapped makeover montage. Yeah,
just to just prove the gender swapping something doesn't make
it interesting or good. It is something that can be done.
And I like how they try to make it hyper
vasculine by just slapping each other. I'm like, what it's

(18:29):
like every shopping montage you've ever seen in your life,
except they can't stop hitting each other and throwing shoes
arm and then Jacob tries to teach Cal how to
pick up women at bars. Cal is terrible at it
at first. Then we see Emily at work. David Lyndhagen
shows up in the Flesh and it's Kevin Bacon did

(18:51):
not remember that I want to treat except he's awful.
He's not great. He professes his feelings for Emily, but
she's not really into it, and it seems like she
might be having second thoughts about leaving Cal. Robbie also
has professed his feelings for Jessica the babysitter um, but
she tells him to stop and that he's making her uncomfortable,

(19:15):
but don't worry, he doesn't stop. Then we cut back
to Cal and Jacob. Jacob thinks Cal is finally ready
to start picking up women and encourages him to hit
on this woman across the bar, Kate A K. Marissa Tomay,
and she ends up going home with him, and this

(19:36):
gives him the confidence boost that he needed and he
starts having sex with a lot of women after this.
This Marissa Tomy character is also like a very stock
character that I feel like appears in many movies of
this era. I was thinking of like Leslie Man in
the forty year Old Virgin. I was thinking Jennifer Anniston

(19:59):
and horror bosses. Like it's like there's so many. I mean,
we'll we'll talk about it, but it's it was like
a trope character of this era was like woman who's
horny and mad and a cartoon character, and they always
would get like a great actress to like do whatever
the funk that is. It's annoying. Mm hmm. Absolutely. Yeah.

(20:23):
So then Cal and Emily go to a parent teacher
conference about Robbie and they're like, again, they're reconnecting a
little bit, but oh, Robbie's teacher is Marissa Tomai. The
first of many twists, and Emily somebody inconsequential You're just like,

(20:45):
oh so what like that? Because we did you guys
like I don't. Oh my gosh. She the teacher in
this scene behaves so unprofessionally. But um, Emily finds out
that the two of them slept together, and now she's
really really mad at Cal, especially because he used the

(21:06):
line that he used to use on her. You're the
perfect combination of sexy and cute honestly, I do love
to hear it, but it's a very contrived line. Oh yeah.
So then there's the scene where Hannah thinks that Josh
Grobin is going to propose to her, but he doesn't,
so she is just so caught off guard that she

(21:29):
runs away finds Jacob at the one bar that he
seems to go to every night of his life. I
was like, does he they? Eventually the twist is that
he's a trust fund glorified date rapist. But but for
a long time in the movie, you're like, is this
his job? You have a job because what he's doing,

(21:51):
And also, I mean we'll get to like what a
horrible father Kell is, but like what he's doing has
to be so expensive, Like he that is like a
nice looking bar, Like he has to be dropping hundreds,
if not thousands of dollars a night trying to coerce
women into coming home to his house, which is clean
mansion with a swimming pool. He has a five thousand

(22:15):
dollar vibrating chair, like it looks like the house from
um at the beginning of Invisible Man. It's very sinister. Yeah. Anyway,
so Hannah, you know, stomps up to him, surprise kisses him,
and then they go home together, but they stay up
all night talking and this is the beginning of them

(22:36):
being in a relationship because she's not like the other girls.
She's worth actually talking to. That remains up for discussion.
They they they do have um good chemistry, but there's
there's also this like, I'm a huge Emma Stone fan,
but there are like parts in again, like this era

(22:57):
of Emma Stone, where I feel like they're like, oh,
we're not gonna really write her a character. We're just
gonna make her talk really fast, and that's the character,
not her fault. But so Jacob is now so busy
with his new girlfriend that he stops answering Cal's calls,
which you realize is just like a convenient plot device

(23:17):
so that Hannah doesn't find out that her new boyfriend's
best friend is her dad. But anyway, so meanwhile, Jessica
the babysitter, is trying to figure out how to get
Cal interested in her, and at the advice of one
of her classmates, she takes nude pictures of herself with

(23:39):
the intent to give them to Cal. But oh, her
parents find them and think that Cal is preying on Jessica. Yeah,
we'll talk all about this. Um, we just have to
we just have to move on for now. H was
like the fact that fucked up things were happening that

(24:02):
late in the movie. I was like, are you kidding me?
You just can't catch a break with this story. Wow
wow wow. Yeah. But so meanwhile Cal and Emily they're connecting,
reconnecting more and more, and then he orchestrates this big
romantic gesture for her in her backyard. But this is

(24:24):
when a few different things happen kind of all at once.
One Cal and Emily's other daughter that you didn't know
that they had is Hannah, a k Emma Stone. She
comes home with her new boyfriend, Jacob, and Cal realizes
this sleazy guy is now dating his daughter, and Cal

(24:45):
is furious at both of them. Uh. This is also
when Jessica's dad comes barreling in and attacks Cal. And
this is also when David Lyndhagen shows up and it's like,
here's your sweater, Emily. But basically all the men then
get in a huge fight, which ends in everyone being

(25:08):
very mad at everyone else. Another scene that you would
think would be really fun because we're like, oh, look
at all these famous people and you know, in a
fist fight, but it's still manages to be really boring,
you know, like oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And then
later a little later, Jacob tries to talk to Cal,

(25:30):
but Cal refuses to give his approval for Jacob and
Hannah's relationship. But then it's Robbie's eighth grade graduation and
Robbie starts to give a speech about how love is
a scam, but Cal interrupts and gives his own speech
about how Emily is his soul mate and he's not

(25:50):
going to give up. He's going to keep fighting for her,
and she's like, oh la la la uh. And then
Cal finally gives his blessing to Jacob and Hannah, and
then Jessica gives her naked photos to Robbie, and then
the movie ends with it seeming like Cal and Emily
will get back together the end. God, let's take a

(26:17):
quick break and then we'll come right back to discuss. Okay,
and we're back, Okay. Can we start with like what
the perceived like? There's so many specifics to talk about here,

(26:38):
but the overall takeaway from this movie I thought, and
let me if you disagree, is they have this whole like,
if you believe that someone is your true love, you
are not just like encouraged. You are required to harass
that person until they reciprocate, and if they don't, just

(27:00):
keep harassing them. And like the foundation of this movie
is so fucked up, and the way the logic goes
is like because it's so poorly written, sorry Mr Cars,
but like it it's like men are doing the same
thing over and over and over and over and over,
and then just at some point in the plot it

(27:20):
stops bothering the women in the movie, and then they
get rewarded for their behavior, their incessant harassing behavior. Yeah,
they everyone gets what they want. So um the message,
it's just a disaster. I'm also not rooting You're just
You're not. I'm not rooting for any relationship in this movie.

(27:43):
I'm not rooting for any character in this movie except
for maybe like for just all of the women to
get away from all of the men. That's what I'm
rooting for. But that doesn't end up happening, so no,
they just get entrapped again. So I did not know
how to organize my notes for this because like all

(28:05):
it's like an ensemble cast and like all of the
characters have a relationship with all of the other characters.
So I was like, but don't worry that there's no
meaningful relationship between two women and the entire maybe, and
they're correct, yes there. I love how when we see
Julianne Moore and Emma Stone on screen together for the
first time, Julianne Moore is blindfolded and it's like hi, honey,

(28:29):
and it's like, this is this is how I feel
about how the women in this movie interact just so
dissonant and bizarre. And then I guess another just kind
of general statement before we get into more specifics, would
just be that the way and we already hinted at this,
but the way women are written in this movie is

(28:50):
just like so cartoonish, and they're all framed as being
very like reactionary. They seem to not know what they want.
They're like fickle, they are often, for lack of a
better word, they are like presented as being quote hysterical.

(29:11):
This applies to basically every woman is some combination of
these traits in this movie. So that's what we're working
with for the women. I just feel like most of
the female characters were just like not really written, like
they're like, well that they're just they're like they're just
kind of they're there Hannah's If you like try to

(29:31):
figure out what is going on in Hannah's life, it's
literally impossible. Like you don't understand why she thinks that
Josh Groban is about to marry her. Like that was
really confused to me. I don't understand what's going on
with her job. No one seems to care what's going
on with her job. She doesn't seem to care what's

(29:52):
going on with her job. I don't know why she
knows she can find Ryan Gosling at this bar. They're
like and I don't really under like just if you
like put any like if you try to piece together
even a synopsis of some of the female characters, Whore
just like, I don't I don't know, they didn't care.

(30:12):
I think the closest you can get to somebody having
a story, or a woman character having a story is
Julianne Moore because she does try to explain herself. I yeah,
I think she may have the most story and all
of this, I like, yeah, I think of all the
I tried to rank my character that these characters by
how little I liked them, And I feel like Julianne

(30:34):
Moore's character was the one that I ended up liking
the best, which isn't saying much, but it's like, first
of all, like I understood why she wanted to leave
Steve Carrell, Like you're like, yeah, this marriage seems really
dead in the water, obviously, like cheating on your spouse
is not the best thing to do in your life.
But like her being like I've been with you and

(30:57):
you fucking suck for so long, Like I just need
to move on with my life. And like she's a
good she's a good mom, she's a fun mom, like
you get like a little more with her. And I
also feel like it's Julianne Morris, so she can just
make a meal of anything. But it's still like it's just, oh,
it's just beneath her this story because it's like she's

(31:17):
the I totally agree, Sammy, like she's the woman that
you know the most about, but it's still like not much,
it's still and yeah, and she just ends up getting
worn down like every other woman I would cheat on
cow Well, yeah, that's the thing. Like the reasons that
they split up, is that he has stopped putting effort

(31:40):
into their relationship. She does not feel that her needs
are met, so she seeks affection elsewhere with Kevin Bacon.
But that's like the only thing that cal focuses on
at like the beginning of their break where he's like,
oh you slept with another man. I've been cuck holded.
And there's that scene where like she's he did get

(32:02):
he got to he got to the word cock Cock's
resurgence early y. I was like, wow, okay, ahead of
the curve, right, But there's that scene and I think, Sammy,
you brought this up. But she's like trying to talk
about like he's like getting into the U haul, and
Julianne Moore is like, you know, I think I might

(32:23):
be having a midlife crisis. Like she's expressing her doubts
and frustration shout out to the movie doubt um, doubts
and frustrations and insecurities. But he's like he refuses to listen,
he refuses to like talk this out like a real adult.
He's being a huge baby about it. He just keeps
talking about like landscaping, and then he later starts just

(32:47):
stalking her at night doing her landscaping, and then also
sometimes just like watching her through her window. Isaac and
I were dying at that scene at the end where
he is once again out on the on spying on
his family and she calls because like it's supposed to
be like again, it's just like, oh, they really thought
they were creating this beautiful moment where it's like she

(33:11):
just wanted to hear his voice, she didn't actually need
help with the pilot light, and like they're both crying
in the scene is forty minutes long, and we were
just cackling. We're like, God, this is really supposed to
be a moment, but it's just this movie. It feels
so long and so long. The movie frames that moment

(33:31):
as being so romantic, but it's like he's stuck in
her right now, shouldn't know that she's not actually letting
the pilot light. He's he loves to come back at night. Cal,
I feel like, yeah, like Julianne Moore's perspective makes a
ton of sense, because like Cal spends the whole movie
approving to you why he's an unfit husband, parent, member

(33:52):
of society. There I will say that you also don't
like you can see cal at work once, but I'm
also like, what does he do, Like, how does is
he like just blowing his like children's college money on
becoming a pickup artist? He's I it was unclear, like

(34:12):
can you afford to be And on top of that,
he's just aggressively not parenting his children. So it's very
bizarre later when Jessica is like, you know, his kids
love him so much, and you kind of like why
I've only seen him interact with him when he's like,
I'm off to go hang out with my pickup artist friend.
Like that's not It's so like you keep being told

(34:36):
that he's a good person with a good heart, but
then you just kind of like rarely see that. Yeah,
he's negligent in a lot of areas of his life.
And then so basically he starts to fill the void
of not being married to Emily anymore with becoming a

(34:58):
pickup artist. At the instruction of Jacob, I wish they
were a little clearer about like the fact that this
is pickup artist, because they kind of like dodge saying it.
They're like, oh, no, you just aggressively nagged women, And
it's like Ryan Gosling makes it sound like this was
all his idea and not that there was like infrastructure

(35:20):
for this. He's like, I, I wrote the game, I
invented this, I invented going to bars wearing suits. And
she's like, no, that's not okay, sir, I can't do
all that. So I guess, like for the Cal and
Jacob friendship, I mean, I do slap all of my

(35:41):
friends all the time, so I feel like I can confirm,
so that didn't feel weird to me. So we are
feeling seen here to an extent. This is why I
like the movie. Actually, I've represented in Liz and Jacob
slaps and now I get it. Now I get it.
Um okay. So yeah, Jacob is not that the movie

(36:03):
wants you to think this, because the movie wants you
to think that. I think the movie wants you to
think that, Like he just needs to grow up a
little bit. He needs to find the right woman who
will like, who will let him just kind of like
settle down and learn that, like love is real. He
just needs to find it. But even so, the movie

(36:25):
like condones his pickup artistry, his like very sleazy misogynists creepy,
like he literally says the first, the first like rule
of his. He's reciting the game like he's there's a book.
There's a book. It's bad. But like he said, the
first rule is to like get her really drunk. Like

(36:48):
this is like, I'm glad that you don't like really
but it's like, this goes into very dark territory. I
just am not convinced that this character is not a
date rapist. Very well could be. He also gives a
monologue to Cow where he says, the war between the
sexes is over, and we won, meaning men won the war.

(37:12):
We won the second women started doing pole dancing for exercise, which, like,
I mean, the implications, just the sham nous of all
of that is horrendous. And then he says, even though yeah,
I want to take some, I feel like I've won
when I take exactly It continues to say, but even

(37:34):
though we won, they still deserve our respect, meaning women
deserve our respect. We make them feel beautiful, actually listen
to their problems, open the door for them. And then
he says, you've got to take control of your manhood.
You want something, you take it. You don't like something,
you say it. I take what I want. So that
is his wisdom that he's imparting to cow. This is

(37:57):
such this whole friendship is so fucked up, like and
it sucks too, because it's like anytime you see like
a male friendship on screen, you're like, oh, this is
you know, like there's such a traceable history of you know,
like men not knowing how to like bond and express

(38:19):
emotion with each other. Um, but this relationship is just
so toxic. It's just so toxic. And then the twist
with Jacob being that he's really rich and his dad
was too nice and then his mom was so cold,
both of which are like these are very relative terms

(38:39):
you're using because you're a misogynist, so she could just
be a person like but the and we're supposed to
like feel like I'm supposed to feel bad for you
because your dad was so nice. That it's so it's
so just like I don't even know what they were

(38:59):
trying to. Yeah, I'm like, a, is this meant to
endear us too? I'm not sure I think it is.
But because it's like, oh, he's being emotionally raw with her.
He said that his rich dad was really nice, You're like, okay,
So then there's a scene where Jacob is like, okay, Cal,
you're ready go hit on Marissa Tomay, and then Cal

(39:22):
calls him out on his like behavior. He's like, you know,
you buy women a drink even if they don't want one.
You insist. It's a big game, a creepy, creepy game.
And right when you think that, like Cal has come
to his senses and is like, oh, wow, you know
this guy is a creep. He then says, wow, Jacob,
you're such a wise teacher. You've taught me so well.

(39:46):
And then he goes over and tries Jacob's creepy technique
on Marissa Tomay, which I guess we can just talk
about that really quickly. Marissa Tomay being done such a
wild dissurface, the the Radiant Marissa Tomay. I hope, I
hope she made five hundred trillion dollars to have to

(40:08):
do this, because that was the whole fifty million dollar budget.
They were just like, please, Marissa Tomay, do this. Absolutely
like miserable part for us because there first of all,
like again, just the logic of it is so bizarre,
where they make fun of the fact that she's a
recovering alcoholic and several points in the movie and she's

(40:29):
just like this, and we started talking about it, but
like she's just this like broad stereotype of like a
desperate woman who like she'll take anything, she'll take the
first person who gives her the smallest amount of attention.
And it's and I think it's just shorthand for like
single women over thirty, Like is that what the what

(40:51):
is this? Right? And then and then later if she
feels rejected, she you know, goes nuclear and it's like
her whole life is concern zoomed by revenge. And and
we're supposed to like be siding with Steve Carrell will
be like, Wow, she's being a bit much, don't you think.
Like it's just such an exhausting troupe that I feel

(41:13):
like was like extremely active in this time when every
comedy movie was like four hours long and had shitty
improv Right. And then during the scene where he's like
trying to pick her up, and then he at first
he's like nagging, but he's really bad at it. Not

(41:36):
that there's a way to be good at it, like
it's a thing that shouldn't be done, but anyway, it's
not effective. But then he starts being real and honest,
and because he says you're the perfect combination of sexy
and cute, she is now dripping her just she's she's
like so ready to just like jump on his dick.

(41:56):
And then there's a bad Aige joke that gets made
while they're like for playing with each other. But it's
this weird thing where she likes that he's being honest
and open, which is like a good thing, like men
people should be honest and open, but that is like

(42:18):
her liking that is like part of what makes her
seem so like outlandish, and it's just just so like, yeah,
it's I mean, I feel like it is like one
of the broader stereotypes of women of this era is just, yeah,
portraying any woman who is not like married over at

(42:39):
a certain age as like as having to be so
desperate for any sort of validation that and then also
so immediately attached if she receives any validation that. It's
just like a way of like making women look irrational
and like inherently like if you have it's like your

(43:01):
iconic stand up joke, Caitlin, It's like if you have
sex with someone, you're you are you have to marry
them and like you are like chemically bound to them
until you die. And there's just like scenes with Morrissa
Tomay where the button on the scene is just her screeching,
like that was one of the scene ended and it

(43:22):
echoed into the next scene. I was like, what kind
of this is wild sound editing? Like it's just so
aggressively underthought, because it's also it's not even like an
original thing in this movie. It's just like copy pasting
the Leslie Man character from a different Steve Correll movie
into but this time it's oh, sorry, let's take a

(43:45):
quick break and then we'll come back to discuss more
and we're back. I will say though, that after the
scene where cal hooks up with Marissa Tomay, there is
another sign that this movie is a sequel to She's

(44:09):
the Man. Do you guys remember please? It is after
he has intercourse with Massa Tomay, they play the song
that they play at the carnival, which is goldfraps la
la Oh only true. She's the Man has Well Know,
which is just me I saw it. I love that,

(44:35):
But I mean it's very clearly a spiritual sequel, if
nothing else sequels, they're really not better. They're really just
not better usually except Paddington too. But anyway, there. I
so that's like, that's Kate. I guess I just want
to leave Kate in the in the past. Um. And

(44:58):
then she continues to hold the grudge into like she's
like flipping off Steve Carrell at the eighth grade graduation.
And it's like, but if you were ghosted that way
by somebody who you were very excited about telling you
the truth and that's why you were screeching during intercourse,
Like I feel like you probably would flick them off

(45:18):
if you had to be exposed to them later on
in a public space. I mean, to be perfectly fair, Yes,
Steve Carrell did a not nice thing by discarding her,
because and that's the whole like pickup artist thing, right,
It's like you objectify women, you use them, and then
you discard them. And that's what he does to like

(45:40):
eight different women or something like that. Um. So she
has every right to be upset and mad because he
treats her like an object. But I think it's more
that the way that she is characterized with her like
irrationality and can't let it go. Write is what informs
her behavior, not the fact that she like has a

(46:01):
legitimate reason to be mad. The eighth grade graduation. I
don't know, it's just my half of my organs started
shutting down at that point. It's like he'sa, well we'll
get there, but yeah, like Kate is really underthought the
It's very bizarre to be how they kept bringing up

(46:22):
that she was five years sober as a negative, Like
it was just like, what do you think you're saying here?
It is just very bizarre. And then we have where
do we I'm saving the children for last because it's
just like I don't even want to go there. I guess.
Jacob and Hannah, well, I wanted to just, um give

(46:42):
some context for pickup artistry really quick, um because this
there's just so much here and I feel like this movie,
I mean, they couldn't have known in I mean, you
everyone who pick up artistry was bad, but they couldn't
have known where it led and kind of I don't know,
I've spent a lot of time thinking about this because um,

(47:06):
I hate myself, I guess, but there is like pickup
artistry is such a demonstrable gateway to darker, worse behavior,
which became clear soon after this movie came out. So
I'm not saying that this movie is like ignoring things
that had already happened outside of like how fucking ludicrous
it is to be like, let's make a movie about

(47:28):
pickup artistry that's kind of like pro But there there's
like there's an article that kind of like lays out
this pipeline where essentially, like pickup artistry can lead to
you becoming a far right extremist right because it's built
on the same Um, I don't know. I mean it

(47:50):
is like mental logic too to an extent. Uh where
I'm going to just pull from it. It's by Miles
Clee of mal magazine Love Miles is where, but he's
kind of tracing how to pick up artists on like
YouTube ended up at the Capital Insurrection and like it

(48:10):
is it is a wild there's all sorts of bizarro online,
you know, pipelines built on entitlement, like whether it's entitlement
to women, to money, to power, to whatever like it. Um,
there's all of these pipelines, and so he kind of traces, oh,
these guys were pick up artists on YouTube in the
early and now they're full Q and On like old

(48:35):
right superstars who were like arrested for being at the
fucking insurrection. So I I'll send you the links because
it's like it gets so dark and they're still there's
a great Dan Olson video about um, how flat earthers
all went to Q and On as well, and just

(48:55):
this movie is not like doesn't know that that stuff
is going to happen ibviously, but I just think it's
so bizarre and sinister that it's like presented as like,
oh ha ha, look at this clearly misogynoust thing that's
like built on all of the built on entitlement, which
every man in this movie and boy is extremely entitled,

(49:19):
where you're just like this, it's just so fucking dark,
and um, I think it's like also weirdly avoidant that
they don't say what it is and like what they're
doing for half of the movie, because they're literally doing
play by play the game, but they're acting like, oh,

(49:41):
it's just this thing. I don't know, it's just the
thing that I'm doing and it works, and but it's
like pick up artistry demonstrably does not work. People don't
like it. Most women don't like being spoken to that
way and then like yourselves. But like what Miles kind

(50:02):
of lays out in this piece is like it it's
sort of built to like push you into darker ideology
because you're given this horrible system. Uh, you go out
to a bar, you aggressively next next someone. They don't
like it, and then they're like, well, something's wrong with
you because I was told that this fucking system works,

(50:23):
and so like this is your problem, and then it
just developed like it just I mean you can literally
trace it to like Elliott Roger stuff like and then
when you're rejected by this shitty system that's based on
dehumanizing people and they don't like that, then it just
turns into anger, which leads to all of these other

(50:43):
horrible places. So I just I hate this movie. I
hate this movie. Okay, we can move to other characters. Sorry, no,
but thank you. That is helpful context. And I mean
the takeaway from the for me is this movie is
like it's glorifying. It's making pick up artistry seem cool.

(51:06):
And even though the characters at the end like they
stray away from that lifestyle because they have relationships, they've
aggressively pursued their one true love through a series of
right they picked up their soul mate and now they
don't need to pick up any more people. It's still
there's a large chunk of the movie that makes you,

(51:30):
as an audience member think like, oh wow, what a
what a huge improvement Steve Carrell's character like underwent with
his makeover and in his more Now he has more confidence,
and now he's more experienced sexually, and like it's yeah,
you as the audience, are meant to I think that

(51:52):
that was all pretty okay, and that that was like
what led him to being able to win his wife,
but his wife back, like he just needed to learn
how to put in some effort and try and like
wear better shoes and she and she rude the day
he rediscovered his quote unquote rediscovered his manhood, and she

(52:16):
indeed rude the day that she left him, because the
movie ends with her being like, oh my gosh, he's
he's trying again. He's he's new and improved, and I
should be with him, so aggressively strongholded eighth grade graduation.
God damn seene. So yeah, I just the pickup artistry

(52:40):
stuff is really dark. I feel like they're like I
get that they move on from it, but it is yeah,
just like, oh, well I picked picked up my one
true love. Uh. And then that's like the other very
sexist thing that's going on in this movie. So there's
just two sexist ideologies and both of them are successful. Yes,

(53:02):
oh yikes. Um. So yeah with with Jacob and Hannah,
you know we mentioned how they meet because he aggressively
hits on her, she keeps saying no, no, no, no,
thank you. She leaves, but then later because she is
furious that her boyfriend Josh Grobin didn't propose to her,
which like we've all been there. We've all been there

(53:26):
every party that I go to, that's a celebration of
question mark. I'm furious when someone doesn't propose to It
is so unclear in that scene why she thinks he's
going to propose, Like because not to side with Josh Grobin.
But I don't understand why she thinks he's going to propose.
They like don't aren't even sitting next to each other.

(53:49):
You don't interact unless he's like directing his speech towards her.
But like when he sits down in the earlier scene,
he sits with his friend like he does not interact
with her at all, and then like, yeah, she expects
him to be proposing because of the other party they
were at where she told Liz I think he's going
to propose to me, and then just decides it like
she's going to hold on to that until the next

(54:10):
party that they have. I don't. I mean I did. Unfortunately,
when Josh Groban was like, oh, um, sorry, you thought
I was going to propose to you, I was kind
of like, I'm kind of with him there. I don't
know why why that was something that we were supposed
to think was going to happen. And then when Liz,
her friend who is in like three scenes, is like, really,

(54:33):
why him, Like why why do you want him to
propose that? Hannah's response is like, well, he's nice, and
it's like that's that might be true, I guess, but
like that's not enough of a reason to want to
marry him. Like she doesn't say like I love him,
he's my soul mate, like I want to spend our
lives together. She's just like, well, he's nice, don't you think.

(54:54):
I'm like, it's so funny because you can just tell
that like some some guy wrote this movie by the
way that it's just like, well, two women are sitting
next to each other, okay, okay, okay, so one is
probably about to get proposed to, Like it's just so bleak.
And also like I mean, Liz embodies the the Best

(55:14):
Friend character where she's so invested in Emma Stone getting
funk funk funk funck fucked. That is what she lives for.
She where I assumed that she works in lawyer also
but I don't actually I can't actually confirm that. Also,
I like, there's so that is like another recognizable dynamic

(55:36):
that we know. And also it's the only non white
character in the entire movie, um with any sort of
like with I think more than one, you know, appearing
in more than one scene. But then also it's like
why is Okay, I was trying to connect the dots here,
Jacob is obsessed with Steve Correll having sex? Why for

(56:00):
a questions? Like also just for he reminded I wrote down, Um,
Jacob is obsessed with Steve Carrell having sex the way
that Mary Kay and Ashley are obsessed with their widowed
father having sex in every movie. Like it's just so,
but like I don't know, like and then I I

(56:20):
what he gives a one where or like a one
line explanation where he's like, you remind me of someone,
And I think the application is like his nice, rich
dad who died. No, I think it's he reminds Steve Carrell,
reminds him of like who Jacob used to be before
he learned to be cool and pick up artist. Y.

(56:40):
I'm guessing his daddy dad. Yeah, his dead dad. I
thought he was like my I wish I could get
my nice dead dad laid but you'll do because my
mom was such a like. I think he really does
think like my mom was a shrew and I wish
I could have gotten daddy laid back when he was

(57:03):
not dead. The logic is so I can't I can't
get there, but he was. He was so like so
much time and money. And also I'm like, I guess
he also just sort of doesn't need a job and
needs something to do, which is really sad. Yeah, you know,
it's like take a night class, Ryan Gosli, what are

(57:25):
you doing in this movie? Yeah? How invested he is
in cal becoming just like him is very bizarre. It's confusing.
It does not track who who has that relationship dynamic
who what man? Who is like busy trying to manipulate women?

(57:47):
Is it the type of thing where like, deep down,
you know what you're doing is fucked up, so you
want other you want to bring other people into what
you're doing so that you're not alone in your fucked
up behavior. Is that it? This is going to go
into my bigger thought of the movie and the general
world and its thoughts on love and romance and stuff.

(58:08):
But I think that specifically Jacob's obsession with Cal, aside
from like why does he want to help him, is
that like, you know, you're not a person unless you
are with another person and what you like, we're supposed
to think that he's like doing a good guy thing
by helping out someone else, trick another person into it,

(58:31):
and like that's like the thing that we're like, okay,
like he's a good guy. He's he's gonna try to
get his friend, you know, relevant by having his wife
bag or some of the ship like that. They're just
so it's such it's such a bizarre dynamic, and it's like,
I don't know that whole montage where it begins to

(58:53):
work for Steve Carrell too, I was like what am
I supposed to be feeling right now? I'm really unclear.
And what if I'm supposed to be like yeah, amazing,
or if I'm supposed to be like nasty, like I
just I don't know. It was hard to put myself
in brain. But the way, like the music, the camera work,
like the movie I'm pretty sure wants you to think, wow, awesome,

(59:17):
he finally got it. He finally clicked, you know, the
student has become the teacher kind of like he's doing
it and you're supposed to be like rooting for it.
I'm pretty sure that was another thing that with just
for how like I think all the female characters in
this movie are like written pretty badly, but Hannah's like
I just don't think she was written at all because

(59:39):
I was so like, why doesn't she? I understand that. Like,
so when the twist is Emma Stone is Steve Carell's daughter,
he immediately like, all of a sudden, it's nineteen fifty
four and she needs her father's approval to date someone,
which is like, okay, whatever, and Steve Carell's like, you
will never get my approval and you're like, oh my god,

(01:00:00):
please give your approval. So the movie can end. But like,
but I also don't really understand why, Like if Emma
Stone fully understands the extent to which Jacob like was
trying to turn her father into a pickup artist, and
if so, why doesn't I would feel weird about that.

(01:00:21):
I feel like that would be at least that at
least warrants a scene and a conversation of like, why
doesn't this bother her? It would really bother me if
I thought I had met the love of my life
and he had spent every night for the past three
months trying to get my father laid under nefarious pretenses,
Like that's really that's like a that's a big reveal

(01:00:42):
breaking up for sure. If he ever tells her the
truth about that, there's like no way but that like
that's a that's a that's a revelation. Yeah, I have
to imagine that she's just sort of left in the
dark about that. That's so fucked up. I hope they're
way is in shambles after the movie, and I truly

(01:01:02):
hope that. Oh my god, I like, yeah, that whole
I was just like why, like because she she was
like daddy also, daddy, daddy, daddy, it's okay, and and
I'm like, why is it okay with you? Or I
just wasn't clear, and like if she knew and didn't

(01:01:23):
care for some reason, or if just no one had
told her and she was living in the dark in
terms of Ryan Gosling's weird past, because I know that
she she knows that he tries to get women really
drunk and treats them like their machines, but she I
don't think she knows his history with Daddy. But I

(01:01:46):
have no idea either one would be grounds if if
I just found out, oh, you used to be a
unrepentant pickup artist and you did this what seems to
be every night of your life, I would just need
some real I would need some real progress reports. I
would feel like, Okay, how long have you not been
a pickup artist? Forty five minutes? Okay? Like yeah, But

(01:02:10):
it goes back to the reason that he stops is because, like,
he found a girl who's not like the other girls.
He found someone who he can goof with. And the
chemistry between Emma Stone and Ryan Gosling, it's electric. It's
it's not the press. I just I hate that aspect

(01:02:32):
of it and then yeah, when the big reveal happens
and Cal finds out that his daughter's daughter is dating
this guy who he knows to be this like sleazy womanizer,
he like gets mad at Hannah. He gets mad at Jacob,

(01:02:53):
but he's also like he refuses to like he doesn't
respect her autonomy or her decisions. He won't talk to
her unless she breaks up with him, like he's placing
a lot of blame on her. And then what he's
also not doing is noticing the like staggering hypocrisy of
his situation where he hates Jacob for being a pickup

(01:03:17):
art like a womanizer, but that's what he was just
doing with like eight different women nine Like a, wait,
it's nine, but I thought it was nine women eight
plus Julian Moore. I think it's nine. Oh is it
nine total or nine plus Julianne Moore. I hesitate to

(01:03:37):
believe that Dan Fogelman and John Requa really did that
accurate math, So I'm not sure. I mean, ultimately, it
was like Jacob ends up getting this like little redemption
arc which is totally unearned and doesn't really make any sense,
and Cal is a hypocrite and he's he's he's like

(01:04:01):
berating his daughter for having autonomy over her own life. Meanwhile,
also she's wrong and she isn't a real person. She's like,
so that's excusing. But then even so, like he if
we just look at it, like he is not respecting
his daughter's choice. It's like the whole like eight simple

(01:04:21):
Rules of Daring Martoonage daughter thing, where like he thinks
that he just can control his daughter's life. But if
he really wanted to do something, he would just have
to be totally honest with her. Maybe this is in
the fifty hour cut of the movie, but like he
would have to be honest with her and be like,

(01:04:42):
because he's being really vague, he's like, he's not a
good guy. He's not a good guy, which could just
be an overprotective father like trope thing. But he also
like if he I don't know, I would like understand
the storyline a little better if he went to her
and was like, look, he's not a good guy. I
have I have receipts. I could be specific. Here's how

(01:05:03):
I know. He taught me how to be a really
like an even worse guy, and I regret it and
I'm sorry, and like this is why I have all
this information, and that like that would have been at
least something that you're like, oh, this character has grown,
But he doesn't do that. He's just like he's bad.
I can't get more specific because it will make me

(01:05:24):
look bad. You're like really okay, and then again and
he's like, I have nothing more to say to you
if you're going to keep dating him. Meanwhile, his son
is harassing the babysitter relentlessly and he's not doing anything
about that. But he's like, but my daughter, she's dating someone,
and I'm furious about it. Okay, let's just get to

(01:05:47):
the sun. I Robbie is I think the most problematic
character in the movie. He's right up there. What the
fuck is going on here? This is like again just
like embodies so many shitty tropes all at once. Like

(01:06:08):
he's just a because he's precocious child trope, like wise
beyond his years, giving Shakespearean soliloquies that you're just like
get his thirteen he would be like like where are
my Naruto cards? Like like the so he but he's
also like hyper sexualized, which is which is a choice,

(01:06:31):
but also like he's both really immature and really mature
at the same time, like it it seemed to see
he varies. You don't know which Robbie you're going to get,
but I hate them all. Also, I think we are
introduced to him while he's jacking off. I think that's

(01:06:52):
the first here, our first reaction with Robbie. I think
that I don't know. Yeah, so we're introduced to him
when he is mass reading. The scene immediately after is
the first of many times that he's aggressively harassing his babysitter. Um.
I feel like his entire character is summed up in

(01:07:12):
the line I'm not gonna stop sending Jessica text messages
that make her feel uncomfortable, just literally a line of dialogue,
he says, and and to Kevin Bacon, to Kevin Bacon,
poor Kevin Bacon, have even listen to Jonah Bobos about
this toxic rhetoric. Um, But that's like his entire character,
Like he is constantly and I hate this so much.

(01:07:36):
Probably it's a personal thing because it makes me extremely uncomfortable.
But like the whole idea of like if you are
rejected explicitly, not even like, oh, I don't think she
likes me, She sends him a text saying stop this,
you are making me uncomfortable, and then he doubles and
triples down and the whole like grand, I hate the

(01:07:58):
whole Grand Jessicing. I think it's like the cringe eest was.
I know some people like grand gestures. They make me
so uncomfortable, hat and so many So Yeah, like so
much of this movie is and I feel like there's
an element of that um with when Emmastone meets Ryan
Gosling of like no means yes, of like she's like, no,

(01:08:19):
I don't like you know, I'm not. And it's kind
of similar with this Robbie Jessica storyline where she's like,
I don't want you to do this does make me uncomfortable,
and then he will like he does this weird thing
with the scarlet letter, he does this, he just keeps
doing ship, He's showing up at her house, He's doing
all this stuff. And then eventually she's like, I love it,

(01:08:42):
I love it, and actually I love you. He's rewarded
when she gives him her nude photos, which we will
get to why she has those in a in a second.
But yeah, like it's this like war of attrition that
all the men in this movie are doing where they
are wearing these women down until they relent for question

(01:09:04):
mark reasons because these these women are written so poorly.
I mean, yes, they are written poorly, but I feel
like in general, we are taught to believe that you
have to pursue a person until they fold. Like that's
the whole entire thing about love and how like the

(01:09:26):
whole like marriage and soulmates ship is just like if
you find somebody really really like, you better dig your
heels in because someday they all say yes. And like
that's like the grossest part of some of this stuff
in the movie is that it is like it's accurate
to how people behave Yeah right, I mean it just
it reinforced. It like takes behavior that like people have

(01:09:50):
been conditioned with thinking is like the right way to
do it, and then it just like reinforces it rather
than like examining, Hey, maybe that's not the way to
do it. Maybe this is like getting like a little dark.
But even how like, I mean, the way that the
Robbie Jessica thing resolves is just like uh like, but

(01:10:12):
I I do like there were times when it seems
like she was really in a way that I'm like,
I don't even know if this was written intentionally or
if the like the actors playing Jessica was like doing
a subtle thing, but it seems like, you know, we're
also often taught like it's easier to like let someone

(01:10:32):
down easy. It's easier to be very gentle and coddleman's
feelings literally for safety purposes, Like if you don't, like,
you know, engage with someone who's making you very uncomfortable
in a way that is very like accommodating to them,
you could get harmed. And that was like there were

(01:10:52):
moments that I'm like, oh, I don't think that they
were trying to say that, But if I were Jessica
and the same boy was escalating behavior that I didn't
like treating me, you know, like in more and more
bizarre ways, I feel like there is like a place
in my head, especially when I was younger, that I
would be like, oh, i'd better like kind of coddle

(01:11:14):
and protect this person's feelings because they're behaving really scary
and like, you don't know what someone will do if
you just keep like so I appreciate that we did
see her reject him outright several times and say stop, stop, stop,
But then it's like, I don't know. I I think
that like in a real life situation, like we are

(01:11:38):
kind of taught for our own safety to to not
be like quite so direct constantly, which is so depressing
because it's like, well, you never know when someone's gonna
murder you, like right, and like and Sammy, like you're saying,
the behavior that's on display here in this movie is

(01:12:00):
reflective of this era that the movie comes out inn
Like it's wild to think that ten years ago, which
doesn't feel like that long ago, but like that was
still very much the attitude that people had that you,
if you really like someone, you aggressively pursue them until

(01:12:22):
they have no choice but to relent. And that is
actually awesome and romantic and not creepy and harassy and stockery.
That yeah, that was that we were all still very
much subscribing to that magazine. I mean, unfortunately, I feel
like it's still what people are striving for, is that

(01:12:44):
like the whole thing of like relationships, in the beginning
of relationship, like there needs to be a little bit
of drama. There needs to be somebody like pretending or
playing a game, and like I feel like that's just
such ship and even like the whole like soulmate thing
is like ridiculous, is like that doesn't even make sense
because if you look at most of the people who
are married, they're married to people who they work with,

(01:13:05):
and you're definitely probably not going to find your soul
mate at your job. Sorry, God Willing. It's so yeah,
like and and that whole I mean, the whole idea
of how soulmates are presented is so manipulative because it's

(01:13:26):
like the whole Okay, the eighth grade graduation when Jonah
Bobo is making a speech, he's like love sucks love
like love's and then and then Steve Carrell stands up
like wait, and you're like, oh my god. If you're
just like a parent at this, You're like, what is
going on? Who is this man? I need to go home.

(01:13:48):
I have to pee, Like why is Steve Carrell standing
up here? But Steve Carrell goes down and gives the
most toxic speech of all time where he's like, my
son doesn't mean what he says. I think my son
is not very smart anyways, uh like, and then he
goes into like my son believes in soulmates and just

(01:14:09):
the whole where is the line that absolutely maybe want
to die. That's a lot of them, But there there
was a line where he basically says that like, oh,
my son believes in grand romantic gestures, which is code
for harassing women until they give into what you want,
and invokes this idea of soulmates as something that like,

(01:14:30):
you know, it's like, oh, just keep bothering your soulmate
until they talk to you. It's like, no, if your
soulmate was your soulmate, they would want to talk to you.
That is the basic dissidence of like, they're not your
soul mate if they don't want to be around you
or speak to you. Like, that's not how that works.
Like it's just such a basic thing that he's presenting

(01:14:52):
as like keep going, keep going, and and she'll change
your mind eventually. But apparently screenwriter Dan Fogelman nor directors
Glenn or John Requa know this. Oh my god. Their
their resume is funny too. Well, yeah, bad Santas in
their Bad Santas in Their Cats and Dogs, a movie

(01:15:16):
that may be so scared I cried when I was
a kid. Um and the upcoming Jungle Cruise movie. Oh,
starring the Rock, starring the Rock. They wrote a trailer
they also okay to their credit they're only like credits
that are like, oh are the first ones they did? Um,

(01:15:37):
they did right on the Wild thorn Berries and the
Angry Beavers. Good for them. Uh. They also are uncredited
on Looney Tunes Back in Action starring Brendan Fraser. So
you know, they clearly deserved to make a fifty million
dollar five hour rom com. It makes total sense to me.
M hm um also is produced by Denise dano Vi. Yeah,

(01:16:03):
who is who we've spoken about on the show before.
She's kind of an iconic producer who has really championed
a lot of amazing movies, very often champions movies that
are um driven and run by women. Um we I
think we talked about her most Indie Little Women episode
because she um, she got both the nineties and the

(01:16:27):
two thousand tens one made. Um, She's just behind a
lot of cool movies and um, but this isn't one
of them. No, No it's not. I should we talk
about Jessica the Babysitter being in love with cow yes,
and then I need to shove my head into the
garbage disposal, so we'd better get to it. Okay, So

(01:16:51):
it's established that she is in love with Steve Carrell,
and I guess we just have to suspend our disbelief
for that. That. Yeah, it's like this is this is
a setup we've seen before. I don't think it's the
like if it's handled well, this isn't always the worst setup.
It's like, you know a teenager who has a crush
on someone older. It's like, Okay, it's happy, how it goes,

(01:17:17):
let's see what they do. But then this happens so
um basically her, a classmate of hers, who is presumably
another seventeen year old, is said to be having sex
with a lot of older men all the time. This
is one of the least realistically written teen characters. I'm

(01:17:39):
like Dan Fog imagine Dan Folg woman sitting in his
car's mansion trying to imagine how seventeen year old girls
talk to each other, and then writing that scene awful, ridiculous.
He also wrote Tangled, which like, now I have to
go back and rewatch Tangled to be like, no, don't
take Tangled from me. Got to cover that someday soon. Anyway,

(01:18:02):
fred claws cars to oh car cars, you know, I
will say, haunt cars too, better than cars one anyway,
So this classmate of Jessica's says, well, if you want
an older man to be interested in you, you have
to send him a message, send him pictures that let

(01:18:24):
him know. So Jessica proceeds to take nude photos of herself,
which this actor was not underage when this movie was shot.
I checked because she and Amazon are the same age.
But yeah, it's implied child pornography and we're supposed to
be like ha ha, she okay, So that's what they do.

(01:18:46):
So she prints them out because it's and we all
had photo printers, I guess, and with the intent of
giving them to cal But before she can, Jessica's mother
finds these photos and then shows them to her dad,
which is like, in what fucking world, what of her daughter?

(01:19:08):
You would go and talk to your daughter for right?
I mean, I guess, I guess, I mean it is
like she it's not inconceivable to be that a bad
parent would do that, And every parent in this movie
is a bad parent, except for Julianne Moore sometimes. But
it's so and it's played so jokey. I also like

(01:19:31):
John Carol Lynch a lot, and I don't like when
he's misused in movies. He's a character actor icon. Come on,
you're gonna treat Mr Fargo like that? I mean, I
think it's house I think it completely stands to reason
that Jessica's mom would tell her dad about but to
show them show him the photos. Yeah, I feel like

(01:19:52):
as a mother, you destroy the photos or I don't know,
I don't know what you do. I don't want to
think of I don't want to be in this situation.
Why why is this happening at the end of the movie. Yeah? What?
I yeah? What I what? What happened? I don't know
exactly the best way to handle it. I know the
worst way to handle it, which is to show nude
photos of a teenage girl. She's sitting right there too.

(01:20:13):
Like it's just horrifying, yucky, yucky. Yeah that I mean,
Like I want to be clear, Like I don't blame
the girls, neither Jessica nor this classmate of hers, Like
I blame the adult filmmakers who put these scenes into
this movie. Yeah, these people are not real And like

(01:20:35):
this writer cannot write a female character like to save
his life. He also made This is Us apparently anyways. Yeah,
it's like the way that the teenage girls are written
is like pretty unrealistic, and the way that this like
you know, like really serious thing is treated is as

(01:20:56):
a quick joke to get us to the scene where
all the men fite each other. Yeah, it's just like
I just like if you're if you as a writer
or not like equipped to like deal with a storyline
like that responsibly, just like find another way to get
John Carroll Lynch to punch Steve Carrell in the face.
Like there's so many other ways to get there, and

(01:21:17):
like if you need to get there, but like putting
that level of like those are like gigantic steaks to
put if you don't know how to write a storyline
like that, and you don't know how to write a
teenage girl character, Like I I just don't even understand
why the writer would put that in there, you know

(01:21:38):
what I mean, Like it's just an it's an easy,
bad plot point to get to without that level of seriousness.
I don't know. I feel like the whole entire, like
Jessica being in love with cal does not even need
to be in the movie whatsoever. No, it doesn't make
sense to me. She could have just been a normal babysitter.

(01:22:00):
These perverts wanted that in there. So weird and it's
like also, I yeah, I guess I don't understand the
plot relevance it has either, because it's like are we
supposed to think? Like, oh, no, Steve Carrell is a
really viable guy, like what what? What are we being? Uh?

(01:22:20):
And which? So it doesn't go anywhere. I mean, I'm glad, obviously,
I'm glad it doesn't go anywhere, but it's just like,
why is it there? I guess like the theme of
the movie is everyone's in love with somebody who who
is near them. I'm just so glad Steve Carrell, Like Steve,

(01:22:42):
that's a shirt, that's a T shirt. I'm just glad
Steve Carrell like finally stopped doing these midlife Crisis five
movies because Okay, I'm gonna just like list some because
there were so many. Um there was Dan in real life.
That was one of them. I think that was be
the first one where his head's on the pancakes and
it was and it's boring. Um there was um this movie.

(01:23:08):
There was the next year seeking a friend for the
end of the world. Uh, there was the Way Way Back,
which I fun facted one day of paying on because
he shot at in Massachusetts. Um. And then and then
I think that this, um, this ends in when he
successfully plays a dramatic role in Fox Catcher. But that's

(01:23:29):
like five movies where he's playing the same midlife crisis guy. Um.
And oh, I guess you could maybe argue it started
with Little Miss Sunshine, which it like starts on a
high note because it's like an indie Darling where he
has a serious you know, like it's like I'm in
middle aged man in crisis. But then he keeps playing
that role, and then eventually he gets the Fox Catcher

(01:23:50):
and now and he's like, Okay, I got my nominations
for things, and now I can go back to being
a great comedian. Why was he doing these movies? It's
just confusing his range, probably on the I guess, but
it's like, is he good in this movie? Not like
he could be Steve Carrell could be anyone in this movie.
Any man could be this man. But I read the

(01:24:13):
screenwriter wrote this script with Steve Carrell in mind, so
he was like writing it for him specifically, I wonder
if he did the same thing with Lightning McQueen. I wonder,
I wonder if he was like, so yeah, I really
couldn't imagine anyone but Owen Wilson as Lightning, and it
really informed my process. Like I honestly, I guess Larry

(01:24:39):
the cable guide that what's his name made her Maybe
that was written for him. That might have been the
Fogelman technique choose the actor first. Anyways, what's funny to
me is that, like, Steve Carrell is actually incredibly handsome,
and they could have made him as handsome or more
handsome than and Ryan Gosling, but they chose to give

(01:25:02):
him this like very weird, like seven layer middle aged
man outfit rather than like leveling him up to be
like as hot as he is in real life, which
is interesting. Yeah, because like Steve Curl isn't attract I mean,
he's an attractive man. And I also feel like it's
like the way that the coding that movies used to

(01:25:22):
tell you who's attractive and who isn't is always just
so dissonant and just bizarre. And a couple last things
I wanted to bring up this is obviously a very
hetero movie. Everyone is in love with you know, men
are in love with women, women are in love with men.

(01:25:43):
There's everyone's white and has plenty of money, like, oh,
you know, all that kind of stuff. Um. In addition
to that, there are a few homophobic jokes that get made,
where the first time Cal sees Jacob across the bar,
he just looks at him and says gay because he's

(01:26:04):
homophobic and awful. There's an AIDS Jokes joke a few
scenes later, um at the same again, the same bar,
when Cal and Jacob actually talked for the first time,
Jacob comments on how Cal drinking a drink through a
straw makes him look like he's sucking on a tiny penis.

(01:26:25):
But he's also used I guess is his character supposed
to be? Is Jacob supposed to be Jewish? Because he
keeps saying either like Hebrew or Yiddish words throughout the movie.
Maybe that's in the director's cut, that that when you've
got a whole explanation about Jacob's upbringing outside of mean mommy,

(01:26:47):
nice daddy. Right. Um. And then there's a I guess
what's meant to be a visual joke when Cal passes
out in a sauna into Jacob's good crotch. And that's comedy,
baby man. I h I just I like want better

(01:27:09):
for basically every actor in this except for Jonah Bubo unfortunately,
who has since retired. He's he's done so he's writing
folk music anywhere. Statement hats I checked. Okay, wow, thanks
for doing that important research. That's the real that, That's
what I'm here for. And then the other thing we're

(01:27:31):
bringing up is the title of this movie crazy Comma,
stupid comma, love period. And this this is a conversation
that's happening, not a lot, but more and more. And
you know, we on the podcast, we're trying to help
spread the word regarding the use of certain words and

(01:27:52):
certain language choices too, of which are in the title
of this movie. Right, yes, and they might seem pretty harmless,
but in reality they are ablest because this type of
language disparages physical and intellectual disabilities and further's this stigma
of mental illness. And this includes words like crazy, stupid, dumb, lame, insane,

(01:28:20):
et cetera, because, like you know, these words have often
been used to other and to demonize people with disabilities
and mental illness, and these words are also often used
in just like everyday colloquial language in the context of
like disparaging. This thing is bad, this thing is wrong.

(01:28:40):
So our brains make these connections and it just perpetuates
these ablest ideas. So we are actively working on eliminating
this type of language from our vocabulary. We encourage others
to do the same. To read up about it, Will
will include some links in the show notes. Yeah, it's

(01:29:02):
it's it's. If this is the first time you're hearing
about something like this, just begin to educate yourself. That
is the step you can take today. And it's it's
just a thing you should do. We we used to
use words like that on the show, not realizing the
potential harm that they have to cause. UM. And then

(01:29:22):
we learned better, and then we did better, and there
you go, and we'll yeah, we'll, we'll have there's a
number of great resources about this kind of ongoing discussion,
as well as alternative words you can use, um to
kind of rewire your brain a little bit. Uh. In conclusion,
the title of this movie stinks, So I think we

(01:29:42):
can all agree that they should have stuck with their
original title, which was untitled marital crisis comedy, yes, untitled
commas comedy yes, period yeah so yeah. On top of that, uh,
to tie little bow in it the title and I

(01:30:04):
don't want to talk about this movie anymore. Does it
pass the Bechtel test? I don't think it does because
there are a couple of conversation a few conversations where
women interact. For example, Hannah and her friend Liz talk
about Conan O'Brien, they talk about Jacob, they talk about
Josh Grobin. None of those scenes passed. Jessica and her classmate,

(01:30:29):
who is named Madison, I think, talk about how to
get older men to sleep with them horrifying. Um. Jessica
and Emily talk about cal and also Jessica's really really
mean to Emilyson. Then she says I won't take your
slutty money and run the way, which, um, I don't
like the scene it's in, but I'm like, that's maybe

(01:30:51):
I'll use that line every the next time we're splitting
up Patreon money, of like, I don't want your um
and this doesn't This doesn't, of course pass, but um.
Emily says to David Lyndhagen, I'm saving you from disaster
because you're about to preboard the Titanic. Love that. Also,

(01:31:16):
we didn't get into David Lynd Hoggan because literally who
cares um, But but he also was sort of like
that in that one scene. She's like, look, this isn't
gonna work out, and he's like, it's going to work out.
But I like you, so I need to keep talking
to you even if you don't want me to. I
decided your vice soul mate, so I'm that gives me
a license to her wrath you until one of us die.

(01:31:40):
Like God. The thesis statement of the movie, Uh so,
let's rate it on our nipple scale zero to five
nipples based on an examination of intersectional feminism. I'm just
gonna go ahead and give this zero nipples. Yeah, none, none,
And I feel like we've really if we we've really

(01:32:01):
said it all none. If I had a nipple, I
would give it to baby Joey King, but I don't
have one. I have none thoughts, zero nipples. Um. I
think that my favorite part of this movie is there
is a behind the scene story that I think Ryan
and Emma talk about on Graham Norton Um where they

(01:32:25):
were talking about the terribly boring dirty dancing scene. Actually,
my note in my notes my note on my notes
says dirty dancing hyphen Clearly a boring person wrote this movie.
Um but so uh the scene where Ryan lifts Emma up,
apparently she was very, very very scared to do this scene.

(01:32:47):
She did try it, though, and apparently claude at Ryan
Gosling's head like a raccoon when she was up, so
so they did have to go with a dot person
for it. I love Emma Stone, she really is. Oh.
I had my my last note that I haven't marked off.

(01:33:08):
This was just a passing thought because I was trying
so hard to make sense of this. There was a
good ten minutes of watching this movie where I thought
that Ryan Gosling was possibly dead, like Six Cents style,
because he's just that whole montage where he's like training
Steve Garrel. I'm like, what if this is like the
sixth Cents and Steve girls actually alone because he's just

(01:33:30):
sitting at a bar with Ryan, And I'm like, well,
it makes sense because I have no idea why Ryan
Goslink is so interested in Steve Garrell. I don't know
why they're in all these locations. I don't know how
they can afford this. Maybe he's dead, Maybe he's like
this ghost. I love that theory. Let's stick with that.
There's long parts of the movie where Ryan Gosling could
very well be dead, and that would make more sense

(01:33:51):
if he was like either a ghost or if he
was like a projection of cow. Yeah, that makes more
sense than like Fight Club exactly. That makes more sense
than Jacob for no reason taking so much time out
of his day to quote fix Steve Carrell, because that
doesn't track at all. I was like, only a ghost

(01:34:13):
would be having this much free time. So also Cal,
I forgot to mention this, but Cal is very cruel
to several people who work in the service industry. Throughout
the movie, he's really yeah, awful, and then he always
just goes he's I feel like this is like a
Steve Carrell in prop. Then he'll just be like, sorry,

(01:34:33):
that was a little that We're like, come on, come on,
I love Steve Grel so much, but this era of
Steve Carell is tough. So this movie does not do
justice to any of the actors in it. Yeah, anyway,
Sammy wait, I forgot to shout this out, but please,

(01:34:56):
you guys think that they intended for Ryan Gosling to
be eating that Sabarrow when they I don't think I
really don't think that that was I think that that
was like a Ryan Gosling improv Oh if that was
just like what they had for like crafts are like
lunch that day on Stay he probably they have probably
made like a pi a, go get a fucking slice

(01:35:18):
of pizza because Ryan had an idea that day and
then they're like, Okay, we're gonna roll with it. I like,
I couldn't believe that. Yeah, Ryan Gosling seems like those
one of those guys that's like because he's so famous
that if he thinks an idea is kind of funny,
probably no one's going to be like, that's not very funny.
I don't know. I'm by that, especially because it doesn't

(01:35:40):
really track for his character. His character would be the
type of person who's like eating caviare and like patta
and stuff like that, and not like Sabarrow. I feel
like because he's just so like he's anti poor people,
things like don't you dare wear balance sneakers around him?

(01:36:01):
He will throw from he killed someone with that new
Balance sneaker. Um. Yeah, Ryan Gosling character. I think if
you do need to watch Crazy Stupid Love, you should
do so thinking that Ryan Gosling's character is dead the
whole time, and it's a more rewarding experience. Thank you
for putting that in my brain. Um, Sammy, thank you

(01:36:25):
for joining us. Thank you for having me. What a thrill. Indeed,
I just get so drunk off of Ryan Gosling and
Emastone's chemistry that I don't understand what happens. Sorry, I'm
so sorry. It is intoxicating. No. We we had to
cover this movie eventually, and what better person to do

(01:36:48):
it than you? Thank you, Thank you, thank you for
coming back. Thank you. What would you like to plug?
Where can people follow you on social media? Etcetera? Um? Oh,
find me on Instagram? It underscore your underscore, Sam And
I'm already sorry, don't be so. It's it's a You've

(01:37:10):
got great content there, okay. Um you can follow us
on Instagram as well as Twitter. At Bechtel Cast, you
can and should subscribe to our Patreon aka Matreon at
patreon dot com slash Beechtel Cast. You get to bonus

(01:37:30):
episodes every month, plus access to the entire back catalog,
which is upwards of a D bonuses. So if you've
run out of main feed episodes, screwed on over to
the to the Matreon, why don't you and you can
get our our merch at dot com. Slash the Battel
Cast hell yeah, and uh I say we. Since we're

(01:37:53):
all the perfect combination of sexy and cute, let's just
go outside and show the world that all. Let's do it.
Bye bye ye

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Crime Junkie

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Crazy, Stupid, Love. with Samee Junio