Death Becomes Her

This week, Caitlin and Jamie drink some rejuvenating potion and unlock a Matreon bonus episode on Death Becomes Her!

Links for language to use and void surrounding mental illness and disability: https://www.healthpartners.com/blog/mental-illnesses-terms-to-use-terms-to-avoid/ and https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/06/casual-ableist-language/

(This episode contains spoilers)

For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.

Follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP 

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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the bed Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism the patriarchy zef in best
start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hello and welcome
to the Bechtel Cast. My name's Jamie Loftus. My name

(00:21):
is Caitlin Durante, and this is our podcast about yeah
movie and an intersectional look at our favorite movies and
your favorite movies. Not always our favorite movies. Sometimes movies
we hate, these movies we hate, other times movies we loved,
but not this one, not today's movies. Okay, So we
are so um. Members of our patreon ak Matreon will

(00:45):
recognize this as a previous Matreon released episode. We are
unlocking an episode to get you all hyped up for
horror in October this year. So we're unlocking our Death
Becomes Her episode. And one of the reasons we're doing
that because we have been really busting our asses getting
the horror movies together for this year and it's gonna

(01:08):
be an amazing October. We've got the Descent, We've got us,
We've got a girl walks home alone at night. We've
got what's the fourth way pans Labyrinths Hans Labyrinthe. Yeah, there.
We we have an amazing October lined up for you,
mostly directors we haven't covered before, so look forward to that.
And this is just a fun ass episode, yes, and

(01:32):
one of our shorter ones. We've been releasing like two
hour episodes lately, and this one clocks in pretty pretty
short start. To give ourselves too much of a pat
on the back, but UM listeners will know we we
live in southern California and the air is batteries. So
the fact that we are recording two episodes that have

(01:53):
enough you know, it's it's it's it's a miracle. It's
a miracle that we're still producing a podcast in this economy.
Can you imagine? Um. So, so we are unlocking a
Matren episode today, but as an extra treat for our matrons,
UM who if you're already a member or if you
don't know, our Matreon gives you two bonus episodes a

(02:15):
month with just Caitlin and myself talking about movies on
a weird theme that we pick that never makes sense.
Weird theme, you mean, amazing, incredible, outstanding theme that everybody
loves all the time right now, it's it September, which
is uh females driven sports movies with it in the title.

(02:37):
That's your name for it. I My favorite for it
is sport Timber, which is the same thing, female driven
sports movies with it in the title, but stick it
in with it. But in any case, what we for
five bucks a month you can get all of those episodes.
There's I think almost eighty bonus full length bonus episodes
in our Matreon at this point, and this is only one.

(02:59):
This one of the first ones we've ever unlocked, but
for a bonus. On top of the bonus for our matrons.
This month, we're also going to be unlocking our Titanic
live read that we did to benefit Junior High l
A last month. Um one of I think the Collapse
of the Century, some of your favorite guests and us

(03:20):
reading the entire script from Titanic. It's it's four hours long,
so long, it's longer than the movie. Guests like Princess
Weeks who was on the show just last week, Maggie
May Fish, Lindsay Ellis, Knese Mobley who's going to be
on the show next week. There's just so many wonderful
guests and more, and so we'll be unlocking that for

(03:42):
our matrons and uh, one last plug before we get
into the show. We had so much fun doing a
live read with with everybody, and I think it was
over three hundred listeners that were with us that night,
watching and like interacting with us live. We're going to
be doing it again next Friday, September for the movie

(04:05):
Wait for It Twice live, we're doing live reading of Twilight.
I like to call it a live reading slash roasting,
a live blood sucking to celebrate Robert Pattinson's recovery from
COVID nineteen. We're reading Twilight, um no, but we we are.

(04:26):
We are going to be reading it um Tickets will
be live today or tomorrow, so keep your eye on
our social media for that. There's going to be a
donation based way to do it because we are benefiting
a local candidate that we are really excited about in
our area named Fatima Ichball Zubert. She is running for
a state representative against an incumbent cop and she's amazing

(04:49):
and we love her so much. So we're will be
listing information on how to get access to that broadcast,
which will be on the um on our social media
basic you'll donate to Fatima, send us the receipt, we'll
get you the link. It's easy. And you know we're
gonna be I'm gonna be Edward, Caitlin's gonna be bela

(05:10):
it is what it is. I can't believe. I'm going
to buy a wig, I think. And our guests are
going to be on a hose ni A, Sharine, Lana, Unice, Karama,
Danqua and uh future guests on the show, Jess Merwin.
So it is going to be simply a time so

(05:30):
we will be posting about it incessantly, but we wanted
to let you know about it now, so yeah, keep
your eye over that, indeed. And then one last thing
about this episode in particular, since we we recorded it,
we released it about a year ago. If I'm not mistaken,
believe it's for last yes. So you might have noticed

(05:51):
in recent months we're on an ongoing pursuit and effort
to eliminate any language more vocabulary that is able list
and disparaging of mental illness. And this is we're talking
like pretty common stuff that is still very widely used.
Expressions like and I'm going to say them to let

(06:12):
you know, maybe what you should also try to eliminate
from your vocabulary. Vocabulary so things like that's crazy or
that was insane, or even like that's so dumb, things
like that. Yeah, the phrase stupid as well. There there's
so many common phrases that are rooted in just bigoted

(06:32):
statements against those experiencing mental illness and those with disabilities. Yeah,
we we've kind of been on an ongoing education process
for ourselves as well. Clearly this is stuff we've learned
uh and begun implementing into our lives in the last year,
So we a We're also going to include a link
in our description where you can learn more about that

(06:55):
and more about um, the origin of these common phrases
that are actively harmful. Yes, that said, we wanted to
acknowledge that because there are a few uses of language
like this in the episode, because it was prior to
us being aware of this, So do a heads up
for that. And with that, I guess let's get into

(07:17):
Death Becomes Her the best body horror movie of all time. Yeah,
let's drink our potions that will make us live forever
but also crumble And did you know women's bodies are terrifying.
That's what I learned from this movie. We talked about
it in the episode. But we but if this is

(07:39):
your first episode of the Becktel Cast, welcome. Uh. We
look at movies that have had an impact on the world,
using intersexual feminist lens, using the Bechdel test as a
jumping off point for discussion. But Caitlin, I don't remember
what the Betel test is. Did you remind me? You

(08:00):
say that as a joke. But I honestly, in the past,
like a couple of weeks especially, I'm really like, my
memory doesn't work anymore. I couldn't. I can't remember there's
batteries in the air that we're breathing battery acid. Like
it's horrible. I I don't like, I couldn't. I'm off
topic already. But like I when this maybe passes the
Bechdel test. But I was like trying to think of

(08:21):
my stand up jokes recently, and I'm like, I can't
remember any of my stand up jokes. I can't remember
the names of places I used to go, Like, I,
yeah it, yeah, I was remember. I was like, oh yeah, ideally,
best case scenario, well, we will have to remember our
jokes at some point, um terrifying. No, yeah, I've also

(08:44):
been truly, I mean especially like extra shout out and
love to all of our listeners on the American West
Coast because it's it's tough right now and if you're
able to do mutual aid throughout this, uh please do.
But we're just just it's really the worst of times.
I can't remember. I can't. I was like, I, um,

(09:06):
you want a fun little anecdote before we told them
what the Bechtel test is if you're squeamish, maybe fast
forward fifteen seconds. I was walking to seven eleven yesterday,
bravely went outside and I got so nauseated by the
air that I threw up in my little mask. Had
to turn around. Oh no, it's uh sorry god. Yeah,

(09:29):
I've been having a NonStop headache for probably the past
like six days now. It's really awful. It's bad. Um,
So what is the pie test? And I think all
of that puking in your mask passes the buckel totally
past the backdel past. So that's that's another example of it.
It is, you know, not it's a flawed metric. Um,

(09:52):
but yes, that whole conversation I believe past the Bechtel
test because of the Bechtel Test is a media metric
originally developed and created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel, sometimes
called the Bechtel Wallace Test, and it requires that. For
our purposes, we have made some adjustments to the tests

(10:13):
also another recent development of ours um but our newest
version of the test is two people of any marginalized
gender must have names, must speak to each other about
something other than a sisman. So that is the test test.

(10:37):
It's complicated. So we use that to inspire the premise
of the show and then we dive into a much
deeper conversation about representation in intersectionality and inclusivity and uh,
you know, Goldi Han and Meryl streep at different at
different times. So yes, we're we're excited to share this episode.

(11:00):
Would we hope you enjoy it? And a reminder if
you enjoyed these episodes with just being Caitlin, it's a
little looser we're goofing around. Or if you're just running
out of episodes of the Battle cast on our main feed,
head over to the Matreon five bucks a month to
bonus episodes, and as of today, you can watch the
Titanic stream as well, so enjoy the rest of the episode.

(11:22):
Enjoy the Bell cast. Jamie, what's your history with the film?
Hadn't seen it? What about you? I had only seen
it for the first time about a year ago. It
was not at all on my radar until we started
the podcast and started getting requested him. Yeah, as I
I I and I intentionally did not do a ton

(11:43):
of research going into the viewing experience, which I'm glad
because it is such a wild ride. What a wild ride, indeed.
But yeah, I saw it. I watched it about a
year ago, and then we just rewatched it together and
now we're ready to talk about it. I'm excited. There's
a there's there's a lot going on here. Some of it.

(12:04):
I love some of it. You know, we just have to.
That's why we have the podcast, and it's it's a
beloved movie. It's got a cult following. What a roller
coaster the film. It is, so the story, if I
may please do, thank you so much. We meet Madeline
Ashton Meryl Street. Welcome, We take a hard left, take

(12:30):
a car to Meryl Street. One of our weaker persistent jokes,
I disagree you're right, you're right, you're right. When you're right,
you're right. Um. She is an actor, a musical theater performer. Um.
But people don't like her anymore because they think she
is old and has lost her touch. But there is

(12:52):
one person who does still love her, and that is
Ernest Menville. Bruce Willis's character is a great Bruce Willis
the role of a lifetime. I would say, oh yeah.
He is a cosmetic surgeon. And the fiance of Helen Sharp,
which is Goldie Hawn, who is a front of me

(13:13):
of Madeleine's. She's a writer. She's a writer, which Madeleine
really undermined. She's like, are you still doing that writing
thing right? Which is personally triggering. Sure, and then Helen's
all like, oh my god, Ernest, you don't like Madeleine,
do you? And He's like, no, I have no interest

(13:36):
in her whatsoever. Cutt, I'm getting married. This is the
campiest movie with a fifty five million dollar budget that's
ever been filmed. It's well, okay, I would welcome contenders
and consume them happily. Sure, this is a very expensive
camp movie. Right. Then we cut to seven years later

(13:58):
and Helen has a wait and she is now a
crazy cat lady. She's evicted. Classic trope. Oh yeah, we'll
talk about it. She is evicted from her apartment, she's institutionalized,
and she's completely obsessed with Madeline Ashton's demise. Right and

(14:19):
then she and then we found flash forward seven years again.
Right and Madeleine and Ernest's marriage is not healthy. He's
an alcoholic. He is no longer a plastic surgeon, at
least like not for living people. He instead now makes
corpses look presentable for their funerals. Ya. Then, Madeleine receives

(14:46):
an invitation from Helen for Helen's book party, and Madeline
wants to look her best for the event, so she
goes in for a treatment to get rejuvenated, and a
guy there tells Madeleine about Lisel von Ruman ak Isabella.

(15:07):
She can help, but he is weird, so Madeleine ignores him.
Then she goes to Helen's event, and surprise, Goldie Hawn
has taken off the fat suit and she is a
successful writer. And Madeleine is not handling this well, so
she decides to go to Lisa von Ruman's place castle

(15:34):
and she sells Madeleine a potion that will reverse the
aging process, and it works, and her body tightens up
and her face looks younger in some of them. Us.
I mean, there's so much I think spectacular body horror
in this movie, and uh, this is just the beginning. Meanwhile,

(15:59):
Helen has gone to Earnest to seduce him and sabotage
his relationship with Madeline, and she proposes a plan where
they drug and kill Madeleine but make it look like
an accident, and Madeleine returns home and she and Ernest
get into an argument and then he pushes her down

(16:19):
the stairs. And I truly I found and you know
that I need to watch this movie more. But I
found the moment where Meryl Streep is rocking back and
forth defying gravity on the stairs and we're like, is
she's going to fall or not to be the most
profound moment of the movie, because I think this movie

(16:40):
basically boils down to women versus the forces of gravity
over time, because it is that's a movie about aging,
and like was because this is like a pretty solid
creative team. I'm like, I wonder if someone was thinking
that because it is just like women versus gravity is
a central force in it. That's my little thought. What

(17:04):
a brilliant thought, Jamie so much. I did my best
on that one anyway. So yeah, they've gotten into an argument. Um,
they're screaming at each other, they're calling each other nasty names.
He is strangling her and then he pushes her down
the stairs and she breaks her neck, and then Ernest

(17:25):
calls Helen freaking out, and they're trying to figure out
what to do. And as they're talking through it, uh,
Madeleine gets up off the floor because she's taken this potion.
She didn't die, even though her head is on backwards
now right, which is not easy to look at. The

(17:45):
whatever effects they did to accomplish that particular image is
troubling and scary and weird. So we're being weirdly like
diplomatic about it or like it is easy to view
with your eyeball. It just isn't. I mean, they did

(18:06):
the best with what they could in ninety what year
was it too? Oh see, I think it looks like
a little too close to real. This one an Academy
Award for Visual Effects, did it? Really? It is the
only thing it was nominated for it and it won. Wow,
I know, which is really just a testament to and

(18:30):
you know that that means not recent. Sure, I mean
Zamachas is a visual effects king. I'll say it. I've
seen back to she said it. I can't believe she
finally said it. I mean, he's no James Cameron. But
who's going on with this today? I missed the Matrion.

(18:54):
It's well, it's been a really long time since we
recorded a Matreon episode. I know, it's been really long
since we haven't had a refer e in the room
being like, wrap it up, idiots, it's good, it feels good.
So Madeleine turns her head back around and then yes,
She's like, Earnest, I need to see a doctor. So
he takes her to the e R. But she doesn't

(19:16):
have a heartbeat, and it turns out she is legally dead,
but she's still awake and moving around and she seems
alive because of this potion. But Earnest, being the doctor
science man that he is, thinks that this is a
cosmic sign that they should be together after all, which
is confusing. You know, No, I mean, he's he's an

(19:37):
interesting I'm like, I'm not quite sure what the comments
on masculinity is there, but there but it's something sure
true tv D and he takes her home and tries
to fix up her broken body, but Helen comes back
over and Madeleine overhears her talking to Earnest about their
plan to kill her, so Madeleine takes a rifle and

(20:00):
shoots Helen with it, but surprise, Hell has also taken
Liesel von Rumans potion, so she doesn't die, even though
she has a huge gaping hole in her mid section right,
and then she and Madeleine start physically fighting each other.
They're hitting each other's shovels, but then they realize there's

(20:21):
no point in that because neither of them can be
injured or die. And then they get to a point
where they both admit their wrongdoings and apologize for hurting
each other in the past. Uh and then they make
Ernest fix them up, but he's like, I'll do it,
but then I'm going to leave forever after that and
you'll never see me again. But then they worry. They're

(20:43):
like ship, like, we're gonna need touch ups, Like what
if it rains and he's not going to live forever
and we need him around. So they decide to take
him to Leesl's and make him drink the potion to right,
there's a lot of intermittent violence and this will have
to backtrack to and they know he won't go willingly,

(21:06):
so they first try to drug him. That doesn't work,
and then they knock him out and take him to
Lisl's castle. She almost succeeds in convincing Earnest to drink
the potion, but at the last minute he's like, wait
a minute, I don't want to live forever. That sounds awful,
and then he gets away. He's not wrong, and then

(21:28):
Madeleine and Helen spot him and chase after him through
this like ball that Lisel's throwing all of her clients,
of whom include Elvis, Marilyn Monroe, and Andy Warhol ha
ha funny. So he's trying to escape via the roof
Earnest is and he slips and falls and he's dangling

(21:49):
there and he's about to fall to his death, and
Madeline and Helen are like, oh, man, you got to
take the potion because then if you fall, you won't die.
But he refuses and then he falls, but he lands
in a swimming pool, so he lives. And then he
finally gets away and Madeline and Helen are like, well,
I guess we'll just have to take care of each

(22:10):
other and paint each other's asses. I kind of like that,
so did I. I know, I'm just like man, that
is kind of like, you know, for some of us
being toxic, it's nice to be toxic and also not alone.
That's true. They just start doomed to an eternity of
toxic friendship together. And then we cut to thirty seven

(22:31):
years later, which let me do the math here, because
the movie starts when it's ninety eight, and then seven
years passed, and then seven more years passed, and then
thirty seven years passed, putting us at ten years from now.
So Bruce Willis has ten years left to live. Let's

(22:55):
be very careful. But it has been said, it wasn't
not said diplomatic. Well, yeah, that's an official statement. Okay.
So it's thirty seven years later. Madeline and Helen are
at Ernest's funeral, but they're chipping, they're melting, they're falling apart,

(23:18):
and then they fall down some stairs and break into bits,
but they're still alive. In Helen's like, do you remember
where you parked in the car? And then that's the
end of the movie did it? Did It Do? And
that's the whole thing. Yep, you know, I like the movie.
It's very fun. It's so campy, it's fun with it.

(23:41):
It's wild. Um let's take a quick break and then
we'll come right back. So let's dive in. Yeah. Well,
the first thing for me is that this movie, it
seems like it is like trying to be a commentary

(24:04):
on how society doesn't value older women. I totally agree
with society doesn't tends not to find older women to
be attractive. But I think it does not really go
far enough because then the movie focuses on, uh, these
two women who hate each other, and then they do

(24:25):
end up finding a common ground, but really only because
they have no other choice. This to me, it does
feel like kind of like a swell to that we
just happened to have covered a lot of movies that
kind of fall into this category recently, but like a
very earnest attempt to make a comment on something that
the writers are not necessarily qualified to make. The comment

(24:47):
to this movie is uh spoiler alert. As with most
movies written by multiple men um and directed by and
directed by Mr Zemecki himself. Um, yeah, I mean, this
movie was written by David cope Um, who also was
at least a co writer on Jurassic Park. Curtly does

(25:08):
right vision impossible, snake eyes, don't know what that is.
He's written a lot of damn movies, what I'm saying,
as well as Martin Donovan, who is also a famous screenwriter.
So it does seem like and based on the production
history that we'll get into in Jamie's contact corner, this
was a genuine attempt to make comment on women's aging

(25:31):
by people who you know, couldn't really fully understand it themselves.
And so I feel like, well, I don't feel like,
you know what, make a declarative statement for once in
your life, Jamie. I know based on watching the movie
that even though I think that the criticism of you
know how there's a huge stigma against women's aging is

(25:54):
made in the movie, movie is also very much not
above reducing an age woman's body to a cheap joke
or a women's body in general, because there's a lot
of issues with that shaming in this and there's like
so it is like a weird back and forth and
it is extremely campy, but that doesn't excuse it from
anything of making like pretty solid foundational points about like society.

(26:22):
We live in a society Caalen, right what, and society
should not push women to the point of feeling like
they have to go to, let's say, extreme measures to
preserve their youth in order to function in society as
they would like to. I like that foundational point is made,
but the way that they choose to make it is

(26:45):
kind of all over the place. And then the way
they treat those two women after they have made this choice, yeah,
does not bode well because basically what happens is that
after they've both taken the potion to not only reverse
the aging process but prevent them from ever dying, doom right,

(27:08):
doom them to this weird morbid eternity of just falling apart,
and well they it becomes extreme. But like, I feel
like they're punished by wanting the well not like Okay,
So foundationally we can't really put and much blame on

(27:31):
Meryl Streeps or Goldie Hans's character for wanting to maintain
their youth, just based on especially the early nineties culture
that they're in for the majority of the movie. Sure, right,
but the movie does punish them by condemning them to
an eternity of body horse and then also turning those
characters not really into villains, but the way they start

(27:55):
behaving as soon as they've both died. I kind of
love her. I mean I do. It's like very funny
and like part of what I like about the movie,
but also like, if we really sit down and look
at it and think about it, we I think are
meant to like very much. We'll see, Okay, we're working

(28:16):
this out in real time. Okay, this is the matron.
But I do feel like and we almost talked, we
talked about this while we were watching the movie that
I am all for seeing a toxic relationship between two women.
I love it. I've taken part in them myself, like
but but like truly like where we start, and even

(28:38):
though I feel like it starts from a too heightened place,
but where we start where you know one woman is
jealous of another woman, which I feel like even we
in the past have sometimes been like, oh, that's so tropy,
which it can be, but I also think that there
is certain stories where that works because that trope doesn't
come from nowhere. It comes from I feel, and like

(29:01):
I have felt in certain situations myself that you know,
there is an increased capacity for professional especially where this
seems to sort of start and then it gets personal
but like a jealousy between women, because there's this perception
and often a reality that there's only space for so
many women in a place. So I think that it

(29:25):
is a topic worth exploring, but these writers are just
not equipped to do it, and they and I think
it's so abruptly is like, oh, we don't really know
how to explore this in an interesting or like a
nuanced way at all, So let's just make it about boys,
which is what it becomes about. And then it goes

(29:46):
full trope territory of like damn, damn my boyfriend. So
it kind of sucks because I think that, you know,
the dynamics of a female friendship, especially a longstanding one
like this, and the power dynamics that exists inside of
it really interesting, and it's been done in really clever
and cool ways, and just this this is a more

(30:07):
kind of reductive version of it, although I mean hopefully
it at at the time helped pave the way to
more nuanced looks and stuff like that, but it does,
I mean, it gets pretty reductive of like she still
my boyfriend very quickly, because it takes the movie a
really long time for the audience to understand why they

(30:28):
don't like each other. Because we eventually understand that they
are childhood friends or maybe like they were friends as
teenagers or something like that, it's still pretty vague, yeah,
and it takes a very long time for them to
even talk about it. But then finally there is a
reason that gets established to explain why they are friendemies,
or at least why Helen hates Magdalene, and it's because

(30:51):
Madeline kept stealing Helen's boyfriends, and I guess she was
doing that to get back at Helen for calling her cheap,
which I don't know if that means. We also don't
really know what the context of that is, where it's, yeah,
you're set up with a very vague my immediate read,
but it's so vague that I feel like you can

(31:13):
just project whatever you want onto. It was that like
Helen's character was from like a family that didn't approve
of Meryl's appearance, or maybe it was her socioeconomic background.
It wasn't clear. The word cheap is loaded right exactly,

(31:33):
So it's like is it a classist thing? Is like
is she calling her or is it like she calling
her like oh you're a cheap like hussy, which is
in the yea ly at the beginning to what was it?
I read it down it was like shameless, deep by
princess lude and lusty. You're like, thank you so much? Right,

(31:59):
so it's not even totally clear what she meant. But
then Madeleine retaliates by stealing many of Helen's boyfriends. It's
all pretty reductive stuff. But but I am it takes
an hour and a half for this conversation take place.
But but at least these reasons are given. But again
they are, like you said, they're still very like trophy

(32:20):
and like women be cat fighting and that's the reason
why these women are cat fighting. Yeah, I don't think
that there's like had had the writers, you know, talked
to women their friendships or or reasons that you know,
like I don't know. I mean I think you could
talk to even a handful of women and be like, oh,
you know, what was a friendship that of yours with

(32:41):
another woman that fell apart? And what were the reasons?
You could come up with a more grounded, relatable reason
other than like boys and mommy and daddy because um,
you know a female friendships be complicably complicated as right.
And then shortly after we are we understand the reasons

(33:02):
why they have had such a tense relationship and friendship
throughout their lives. Then they both admit their wrongdoings and
apologize to each other. But it's at that point when
they start to like, you know, be on each other's
sides and decide to like kind of be allies again.

(33:23):
That's when the movie turns them into these like and
again the performances are very fun. This is still very
fun to watch, but it's like they become like these
like kind of scary obsessed to I mean, like it
like enters like once they die, it says, I mean, yeah,
it enters Roger Rabbit territory basically of like the cartoonishness

(33:48):
of how the characters like look and behave and it
is fun to watch. And that's the thing that Like
Bugs Me is movie viewers are smarter than people give
them credit for, like your average movie. You're talking about
me specifically, right, you're a Stubs member. I am telling

(34:09):
all the Stubbs members out there and sponsor us hello,
but like, you know, like people aren't going into death
becomes her looking for an example of how to live
their life, you know, so all you need in order
to justify the cartoony violence, which I appreciate that it's cartoony,
and it's like that's it's a very different movie if

(34:31):
you're like, I'm gonna you really slow instead of literally
I'm gonna blow up your torso you know, like the
injuries are very cartoony. The comical cutting away to Meryl
Street falling down the stairs for forty five minutes before
she hits the bottom of the staircase, like it's clearly
done with like comedic intent, and all you need to
justify all that cartoony violence is a solid reason for

(34:55):
these two characters to hate each other other than a
vague scene throw in three quarters of the way through
the movie that doesn't even really answer any questions, and
it makes it clear. I'm like, I wouldn't even be
surprised if like that scene was added in later, because
it seems like the movie does all it's looking to
do to justify two women disliking each other in the

(35:16):
first scene by saying, like she steals my boyfriends and
we see, you know, it's it's implied that having uh
boyfriend quote unquote stolen, which also removes all of the
accountability from the boyfriend, that is like grounds for Helen's
life completely falling apart. She stops taking care of herself,

(35:36):
and she you know, reaches what is kind of implied
to be this catatonic state of living over the loss
of a boyfriend, which she says explicitly in dialogue she
blames a thousand percent on Meryl Streep and not at
all on Bruce Willis, who is just too much of
a sweetie earnest boo to know what he's doing, which

(35:59):
is like, you know, very IROLLI right, And then this
movie also subscribes heavily to the idea that fat equals pathetic,
that single woman equals pathetic, and that and then also
and woman who loves cats pathetic absolutely and how dare
how dare there the movie stayed at But there? Yeah,

(36:23):
I mean that the way that I mean the fat
shaming elements in this movie are ex Meryl is drunk
constantly making fat shaming comments about Helen, right, and it's
I mean, the beginning of the movie is the worst
of it. Where you you know you. We find out

(36:44):
that Bruce Willis has married Meryl Streep. Goldie Haunt is
very upset by it, and then we cut to seven
years later to an exploitative up close ass shot and
then revealed that Goldi Han's character has gained eight and
it's implied that, yeah, like gaining weight means you've lost
control of your life. Like it's just used as this

(37:07):
shorthand that is like first of all lazy, bad writing,
and second of all it just you know, hold up,
not even a little, and in the fat suit, it's
just all bad. Right. And then also because she's institutionalized
in like a psychiatric hospital, that's also well the way
that mentally, the way that mental illness. Yeah that like

(37:31):
I mean mercifully at least those scenes are pretty quick.
I also think that they could have just flashed forward
fourteen years like that midway, because everything that happens at
the seven year point is pretty offensive and also not
super necessary to the story. Like we can flash forward
fourteen years and just be like she's still mad, right,

(37:54):
you don't need to do the whole scene where it's fat,
shamy and just like bad on every level. And then
you cut to the institution, which at least they don't
do that horrible thing that movies do where they name
a mental illness and explicitly stigmatize it. But the implication is,
you know, women be crazy, and being jealous of another

(38:15):
woman is a mental illness. And then the I think
unnamed mental health professional at the which is one of
the only people of color in the entire movie. I
don't know that we I don't hear your name. I
mean maybe she's credited with one, but I don't think.
We definitely don't hear it. But even she's on screen
for no more than a minute and fat James Goldiehunt

(38:38):
in that scene and is like, you've been here six
months and you haven't lost a pound. I'm like, that's
not why people are institutionalized. So that's just a cruel
thing to say. So that whole first flash forward, I say,
get rid of it. We don't need it. And then
and then when they flash forward again fourteen years Meryl

(38:59):
Street and this is again just like another subtle, not
so subtle way of like treating women's bodies. Is Meryl
Streep only takes Goldie Han seriously and will only consider
talking to her when she finds out that she is
lost weight and is back to Goldie Han. And before that,

(39:22):
it's like she and Bruce Willis are kind of like
gearing up to tease her from Afar and not talk
to her. But then when it's revealed that in another
tasteless reveal that you know, it's Goldie Han and she's,
you know, the Western beauty standards Goldie Han and not
the offensive fat suit Goldie Han, then all of a sudden,
Meryl Streep is willing to engage and the jealousy is back,

(39:44):
and it's just like just just kind of out, don't
we don't need it, We don't need it? Yeah, absolutely,
And then then they're like rivalry is ignited again, and
then we still don't know. I really don't really know why.
We only know that that Madeleine tends to steal Helen's

(40:07):
boyfriend's away from her, but we don't know why, we
don't know what anyone's motivation is. And then things eventually
turn around where they do become friends again because they
both died and they now that they've both been responsible
for the other's death. They kind of they're like, oh,

(40:28):
this is the vague reason we were mad to the game,
was sorry for not mentioning that earlier, and we're even
and yeah, we we right, and we found common ground
in both dying and being so obsessed with maintaining our
youthful looks that we need to keep this guy around

(40:51):
to fix us whenever we need it. But then, like
I say, they become villains because one, they're so obsessed
with this idea of maintaining that, and then they go
so far as to try to drug him and then
knock him out, to take him against his will to
this place and then force him to take this potion

(41:13):
because they just want him. There's also like the bizarre
because Bruce Willis, I mean, the thing is like I
loved this movie, but but but we must do our job.
The the bizarro message you get on masculinity and I
think sort of like a trophy beta male character with

(41:36):
Bruce Willis in this movie is bizarre. Like I think
that immediately all agency is kind of removed from him
in a way that like completely free him of accountability
on anything, where it's just made to seem like he's
this gullible idiot who cannot see through the sexuality of women.

(42:00):
That is the thing where he you know, reassures Goldie
Han and it's like, there's no way I'll fall for this,
And they almost make it seem like Meryl Streep has
this magical power of manipulation that immediately wins him over.
Goldie Han tells him to his face, I don't blame
you for that. It's her. She's evil, she does. She's
a woman, a woman from from new work, which is funny,

(42:25):
but but you know, like no one ever gets upset
for him for things. And then he also intern and
keeping with that, blames the women in his life for
where his life ends up. And it's like no one,
no one forced you to marry Meryl Streep, Bruce Well,
I think I'm sorry. You hate to say it, but
like no one forced you to And and then sort

(42:46):
of the same throughout at the end where it's framed
like you know, these two vindictive women want to keep
this poor man at their mercy for the rest of
their eternal lives, and they want to torture him into infinity,
and it's just like it's so over the top, and
brist Will has literally kills Meryl Street. But he's like

(43:08):
she told me to, like he's actually like he never
has a choice in anything, and it's just so like,
I mean, I loved I love to watch it, but
it does it does give you a weird comment on
masculinity that, like every man that's ever lived is completely
has to go with the like wiles of women. They

(43:31):
don't understand, they can't control it. They do, they commit murder.
It's not their fault. Also, there's that scene where Goldie Han,
dressed as Jessica Rabbit fully goes up at his house
and she's like, I used to be so timid and
I couldn't even say the word sex, but now I
can say it sex, sex, and he's like, boo, it's

(43:56):
kind of funny. But but like, yeah, well, my thing
with that character with Earnest is that I feel that
he has written the way a lot of women are written,
or should I say underwritten in many movies, because he's
often hysterical, he's screaming, he is gullible. Um in the

(44:21):
relationships that he's in with these two women, he is
has far less kind of power and control than the
two women. He at least starts out pretty much as
like being the supporting character um to these women in
the story. So like, but then like by the end,

(44:41):
he is framed as like being this hero and they're
at his funeral and they're like, oh man, his life
got so awesome when he turned fifty and he's a
saint and he started the Menville Center for the Study
of Women because I guess feminine ist icon Earnest Menville

(45:02):
like probably not. I'm like that was I thought that
was like kind of a fun Like I don't know.
I was like, well, aging worked out for someone, because well,
that's the thing. Maybe it's the movie trying to comment
but again I don't think it does it effectively. But
it's like men are allowed to age gracefully and with dignity,

(45:23):
and like, look, how awesome everyone thinks he is. Maybe
if you just hung in their ladies and not gotten
so upset. Right, But and then by contrast, we see
like the two women they are literally like chipping away,
falling apart. They look grotesque because they're paint running off
of their faces. So it's like, is that commentary? But

(45:46):
I feel like and we are, we're on their side,
But I just it feels like a hollow message and
movies trying to say one thing. Well, something I did
like is that I feel like we talked about this
when we're watching it too, that Meryl Streep's character in
this movie kind of reminds me of Goldie Hans character

(46:09):
in First Wives Club, where these are both characters who
are in the entertainment industry. Meryl Streep is some sort
of like a star of the stage in screen right,
who is afraid of not being able to work in
the way she would like to if she appears older, right, um,
which is similar to Goldie Han in First And I

(46:33):
appreciate at very least that I think that often, like
a woman's anxiety about aging is made out to see
hysterical or pathetic. And while it is definitely exaggerated in
this movie, they at very least the writing does go
out of its way to couch it in like and

(46:53):
this is not something that she is completely, you know,
like removed from reality to be worried about, because we
see that scene where she goes to her young side
pieces house and he is with a younger woman and
he rejects her and you know, insults her and says,
you know, go date someone your own age, and that
is a breaking point for her. And so I think

(47:16):
that it was that was one of for me, the
more genuine moments of like actual commentary on aging. Of like, yes,
it does seem on the surface like Meryl Streep is.
You know, she's seen with face masks on all the time.
It's made out to be over the top, but then
you do get the inverse of it of like she's

(47:38):
not doing it for no reason. She's it there is
like it is her reality, and so I did appreciate
that we we at least get to see that so
that she isn't made out to be like the crazy
lady tramp. Yeah, I agree that scene where she goes
to that guy and he says, like, find a guy
your own age. I'm doing you a favorite. People say

(47:59):
we look ridiculous together, which is like the movie attempting,
I think, to comment on the double standard of society
deeming it perfectly acceptable for an older man to be
with a younger woman but not acceptable for an older
woman to be with a younger man. So the movie
does like start to make this commentary. It is like

(48:21):
it is, it just doesn't get all the way there, right.
It's almost like you know, mail writers and directors that
are trying to put women on which is great use
your power responsibly, but also talk to them. See what
they think, See if they think you're being stupid. Uh,
you know, let's just bring it ari aster back into
the conversation while we're at it, of just like, yeah,

(48:42):
we get it, Like you want to make movie as well.
Women try to have a conversation with one. Um. Yeah,
there are like those moments where you're like, oh, this
the heart was in the right place, but it just
rings hollow because there's not really any authenticity in it.
And I feel like it's like what makes a great
campy movie is like reactions and characters that are over
the top of you understand why they're doing what they're doing,

(49:05):
and so you can justify almost anything behavior wise. Of like,
if I had a better understanding, a rooted reason that
Meryl Streep and Goldiehan fucking hate each other, then they
could hit each other with shovels all day and I
wouldn't care, because it's like you there, there's a grounded
reason and you're not just doing it to do it,

(49:26):
but you know it. It's just sometimes it feels that way,
other times it doesn't. Yeah, I agree, Um, we need
to take another quick break, but then we will come
right back and we're back. Can I share my two
favorite lines in the movie, both said by Bruce Willis

(49:50):
because his character just tickles me. Pink hit it baby.
He sees like yelling at like a staff member in
the hospital after he's taken Madeline to the e R
and he's like, you put her in the morgue, shall
be furious. And then a little bit later, whenever they're
trying to deal with what they think is Helen's dead body,

(50:14):
Bruce Willis says, are you just gonna sit there? I'm
not going to be your accomplice all by myself, which
is comedy at its the peak, so funny. Loved it, Okay,
it was fun fun. I mean this movie, I think
kind of keeping true to it's hard in the right place,
but a lot of you know, kind of classically negative

(50:36):
stereotypes being given in. I mean, there's a lot of
needlessly like overly revealing out but it's kind of for
no reason. I'm almost willing to justify it within the
aesthetic of the movie or it is a cartoon. But
there's like that scene where Meryl Stape and Goldie Hunter
following Bruce Willis around in like Leo tarts for no

(50:56):
reason and you're just like, Okay. This is also one
of the few movies where the two female leads are
older than the male love interest. Rail Streep and Goldi
Hunter both older than Bruce Willis, so that very rarely happens.
You know. It's like Leonardo DiCaprio will not appear on
screen with a woman over the age of twenty four.
So there's you know that I thought that was cool.

(51:19):
Oh that was getting into the Isabella Risselini right, because
she she is. I mean, the costumes are incredible, I
mean iconic. They are architecture basically. They the looks her
shirt is just several necklaces. But it's also you're like,
I think that there's flesh colored fabric involved. I'm not

(51:39):
going must because we didn't see any nips. I don't
believe there was art. Yeah, because it was PG. Thirteen,
so the architect I mean it was wild, but but like,
sure there were shots where you saw her bare ass
for no reason. Was it gratuitous? Yeah? But I also
was like, I wish I could wear that, you know,
but there I mean, and there's did you have I

(52:02):
don't have much to say about Lisel's character because she
is kind of something that I think is something that
we have slowly realized is a bizarre trope that appears
again again. Is she's a plot, which right, she's were
compared which we compared her to Ursula. Yeah, she is.
She's literally a ploted She's like, I have a deal

(52:23):
for you. I'm wearing an outfit and you're like a right, okay, sure, yeah.
I mean then we also, I don't know totally how
much this is worth mentioning, but we as we were
watching it, we were like, she's like appropriating ancient Egyptian
culture with like sound off in the comments. We truly

(52:44):
I'm just like, I don't know if there's if what
we don't know. Yeah, there's a lot of there's a
lot of it we don't know. We don't know, so
you know, that's something for for if you have any
information on it. We would love to have a more
cogent discuss and about it, but at this time we
simply don't know. Um, but yeah, that's Lesal. There's really

(53:06):
not I mean, yeah, there was like some gratuitous nuded,
I mean almost exclusively gratuitous nudi. There she's a plot
which but we do have two female protagonists to bounce
it off. I mean, like, if if she was one
of the only women that you saw on screen at length,
I would be way more bothered that she also has
like several male servants Fabia's, Fabio's. They're one of them.

(53:30):
Is Actually their names are Tom, Dick and Harry, and
they are pretty nude. I mean they're topless, they're wearing
they're not pretty revealing clothing. So I thought that was
you know what if that's an empowering thing for it's
just about rules you can't wear a lot of She's rich. Also,
she's a businesswoman. I think there's a case she's a

(53:52):
woman in she's seventies some years old, she said, which
is I mean, it is another one of those I mean,
and again this movie is not thinking too hard about it,
I'm certain, but you know, like a female scientist can
only be a witch kind of thing. But also she

(54:12):
has at least some business life outside of it. I
don't have that much to say about this character. And
then there's also the thing of like it's a movie
about women aging and like not being allowed to age
gracefully in society, not allowing that, but then it's also
casting three women who are very attractive by Western beauty standards,

(54:35):
and it's like great, right for you? Yeah, I don't know.
I mean it is an interesting Again, It's just like,
so much of this movie would pull together more for
me if we had a more grounded story and why
they dislike each other, because as it stands, it just
makes some really cool, interesting scenes and choices kind of

(54:56):
feel less impactful and cool. But uh, and ultimately, it
is the women who suffer for what is presented at
the beginning as a societal ill, and yet it is
still all these two women who have to suffer the
eternal consequences of it, and we're punished for it, which
is a weird message to leave it off. Um. I

(55:17):
wanted to do a quick little context moment for um
this movies. Um, So I was just so thrown off
by you calling it a context moment corner Jamie's context corner. Uh.
This movie has a massive queer following. I wasn't aware
of the extent of the queer legacy of this movie,

(55:39):
but there was a terrific piece that came out in
Vanity Fair on this exact topic, with extensive reporting that
came out two years ago. It was written by Christie Pouchko,
So thank you for doing all this. Um it gives
a little bit of background on the production of the
movie as well as how it is gained a you're

(56:00):
following over time because this movie wasn't super successful when
it came out, and it also was not well reviewed.
Um it just broke its budget domestically and then ended
up making some money internationally, but it definitely wasn't considered
anyone's best. It wasn't nominated for anything except visual effects.
A lot of the interviews are a lot of the
pole quotes are from David cup kick ko E p

(56:23):
p is it kept kept Let's he he gave some
insight into what they were going for. He says, quote
it was meant to be Knight of the Living Dead
if George q Core had directed it, which I think
is kind of a fun reference. It felt like no
risk whatsoever because we both had nothing but credit card
debt to our names. There was nowhere to go but up.
So this was this was basically written to be and

(56:47):
the original casting choices kind of revealed that it was
written to be a B movie. And then because Robert
Zemeckis had a lot of clout and wanted to direct
the movie. All of a sudden it was elevated to
a big budget level. Well so there, which I feel
like you can kind of in a good way, feel
that dissonance of like, why is Bruce Willis in this movie?

(57:07):
Why would like the this movie could have been made
for a lot less money, But I'm kind of glad
it wasn't, you know, like they it looks like it
cost fifty five million dollars um. But what this has
inspired a lot of In addition to the movie being
screened at Pride events quite a bit, um is there
have been a lot of like iconic drag performances inspired

(57:29):
by Death Becomes Her to the point where it was
a specific runway challenge on RuPaul's drag race at some
point um where Violet cho key one um for the
most intensely since waste I've ever seen in my entire life.
You can look it up. It was so good. Later

(57:50):
in the article, David kepp Is asked why I think
this is a very fun question to ask him because
old men are so doofy sometimes. They asked him, why
do you think this movie has a mass such a
big queer following, and he has this to say, quote,
you really can't underestimate the entertainment value of two women
swinging shovels at each other, uh, and then the other

(58:13):
the other all he said yes, and then his coat,
and then his co writer says quote, I could invent
some excuse, but deep down in my heart, I do
not know. So, I mean it's like they're I mean,
they're just like kind of like, we've never talked to
a gay person, so right, so they're like, I guess
it worked out for us. Um the winner of drag

(58:36):
Ray Sieves In five, jerk Hoffer had that's Jinx Monsoon,
Yes one under Jinx Monsoon. But interviewed did this interview
under Jack Hoffer took on like the Death Becomes Her
themed photo shoot like has a history drain. Here's what
Jack has to say, quote, I think this is a
trait that runs throughout the queer community, the obsession with

(58:59):
the hyper femine and female villains. And we see it
in Disney movies and in movies like Death Becomes Her
and in characters like Poison Ivy and Catwoman. Almost all
the Disney villain which is are gay icons, which is
I mean, we've discussed at length here and they continue,
uh quote. I think it's a combination of it being
a strong female character, who who you love, how evil

(59:19):
she is. You know. I don't know why that is
a trait that appears to queer people so much, but
it's pretty consistent amongst the queer community. I think it
has something to do is feeling like outcasts and imagining
yourself in this position of power where even though you're
the outcast, you still have some kind of power and
strength within you. So yeah, and then finally, quote, I

(59:40):
think it's really feminist that they're willing to take their
lives into their own hands and do whatever it takes,
be willing to spray paint themselves and fill themselves with
cement or whatever to just uphold themselves and try to
stay in command. So there you go. That is, in brief,
the History of Death becomes her as a iconic queer

(01:00:00):
movie as well. Ye, beautiful, thanks for the context corner.
You're welcome. Yeah, I'm glad. I mean we talked about
this a fair amount to where certain movies have become
like queer icon texts, not because there are any queer
characters in them, because there are often not in most

(01:00:21):
mainstream movies. Yeah, even in like It's it's just it's
it's cool to understand the history of how movies become
iconic in any community. Like it's cool. And I knew
so little about this movie to begin with that, like
having context for that drag race competition was great for me. Yeah,
it was great because I had watched it before and
been like, what is that? I don't know? And now

(01:00:44):
I know, I understand. You know, I'm learning. Um do
anything else you want to hit on? Just the Helen
Sharp first has a cat and then has many cats,
and cats have eight nipples. That's facts with Caitlin. Yeah,
I think that's about it. Though. Yeah, I enjoyed this

(01:01:06):
movie quite a bit. I'm happy it will be continued
to watch for years to come. I think it is
the kind of movie that even though it's flaws I
think are pretty glaring, I find them so glaring that
it is almost like people can continue to watch it.
Does that make sense? Yeah, where it's not like a

(01:01:27):
subtle poison being put into like the veins of a
movie where you're like, oh no, I'm red pilt, you know,
like it is so it is so wildly campy that
it's not like very very small doses of arsenic that
you take over the course of several months and then
die from it. It's like the poison apple with like
the poison symbol painted onto the apple and try this

(01:01:53):
is fun. They're perfect analogy. Yeah, I mean, just a
movie trying to tackle the subject of like women aging
and how society believes that that's not a thing that
should be allowed at all, you know, and and approaching
that topic in a very way, and that it only
tackles it in the context of upper class, straight white women. Um.

(01:02:19):
But in terms of the time, I mean, there's not
a lot of movies in that are trying to address
the concept of women aging at all. It's the horror
of women at all, of women so right, and and
so I think in that it has a valuable place
in history in addition to being a fun watch with
some really incredible how the performances performances, But it is

(01:02:45):
the the outfits in this movie are really Next, let
me say my one last piece. I think maybe and
this doesn't justify this at all, but perhaps the reason
that we cut to the seven years or where we
see Goldie Han like completely in crisis and like mentally
crumbling and all of that. Is that that's when she

(01:03:09):
we don't see her do this, of course, because it
has to be a reveal later on, but that's when
we understand her to take the potion because she says
she takes it October. That would be seven years after
when the movie opens in about October. That is the

(01:03:31):
day of the temporal junction point of the space time continuum.
According to Back to the Future, another Robert zemeckis Galaxy Brain,
so we needs actually exist in the same universe Galaxy Brain.
I love it. It makes me happy. I didn't understand

(01:03:54):
And you know, we did cover Back to the Future
on the Matreon as well. It did not fare well,
but it's still a movie I deeply, deeply love. So
that's my cross to bear. Yeah, fortunately it isn't mine. Um,
But I do like a good Billy Zane joint, which
I think is how Back to the Future is remembered
um as one of best perfermances. But yeah, I mean,

(01:04:20):
I yeah, this this I would genuinely like recommend watch
this movie with your friends. It's a blast. I'm sure
there's a great drinking game for this movie somewhere. Um,
But you know that's why we're here to just you know,
keep you humble. But you know, hey, it's not as
good as you think it is, but it's still pretty good.
That's our job. Does this movie pass the Bectel test?

(01:04:41):
It does? It does. Between Madeline and Helen, Between Madeline
and Liesl. There's a few other conversations with a very
tertiary female characters who don't get named, that don't pass
the Bectel test. But there are women interacting, and there
is a lot of talk about, like I feel like,
even slightly edging out the Bruce Willis talk. There is

(01:05:04):
a lot of talk about jealousy and fractures within the friendship. Um.
And often men will come up because the conflict between
them is underwritten. But you do they do like that
some of the dialogue is like left for us to
kind of explore this conflict, although it comes away too
late in the movie. But yeah, so you know it

(01:05:25):
does pass. Sure. Does What would you rate the film?
Probably pretty low? Um? I mean, here's okay, I was
gonna say this earlier. For all of its faults, all
of the action in this movie is driven by the
female characters. Bruce Willis has, like you were saying, is

(01:05:48):
reduced to no agency like female characters often are. He
becomes kind of this flaccid tool weapon, screaming, squealing, hysterical
to be used by the two female here to. So
in that way, I think it is very unusual and
cool women are. But then he is given agency like
the climax, and it's almost like he was climax and

(01:06:09):
then he's yeah, exactly, I have to. I don't like
the way this movie ends. One and a half, one
and a half maybe two. I was gonna give it
to Okay, I'll go to nip for each of them.
This gets a five million on the Campo meter, but
that's not what we're here for. Uh. In terms of
maybe we should do that podcast Ika, Yeah, new Patreon

(01:06:31):
tier strictly discussing camp the Campo meter, but this is
like Campo meter a plus. But in terms of how
the movie treat this family characters, I would say about
two because they do lose in the end, which doesn't
they're punished for, you know, wanting to And that's the
other thing, Like, yes, society has these rigid expectations about

(01:06:55):
women and women aging. Women will also be criticized. We're
trying to like participate in like I'm going to try
to not look like I'm aging so much kind of thing,
and then women are also punished for that. Well, it's
just like, well, what can't you just like age naturally?
And it's like, because you fucking won't let me take society.

(01:07:16):
Well the Yeah, I feel like the movie like at
some points it reaches like, oh, it looks like it's
about to make a really cool point, and then it
punishes the female character were making the choice that they've explained,
it made it clear why they're making that choice, and
then they're like, well, whatever funk are anyways, and you're
just like that's not fair. My ideal ending for this
movie is that once they become friends again, they discuss, okay,

(01:07:38):
this was our conflict, we both killed each other, we're even. Then,
instead of going after Bruce Willis, they like find a
more like a large, like societal target, and like, instead
of going after this one person that they've been using
as a tool this whole time, go after someone who
has actually inflicted harm upon them and go after that. Like,

(01:08:00):
I feel like that's a more logical target, especially if
you get that cool moment of them uniting, right, it's like,
why would you go out to Bruce Willis? Right? I
do like when they come together and form this like
friendship again. But yeah, the third act of this movie
is a mess, and they should there should be like
maybe like a movie director who's like, I'm not going

(01:08:20):
to cast you anymore, Mary because you've gotten too old,
or even just like someone who's set up a little
bit earlier of someone who has done actual harm or
encouraged conflict among them or something like that, where because
going for Bruce Willis it doesn't make a ton of sense,
and then he ends up winning and you're just like
I don't like that either, Like there was a cooler
in trajectory for them, and they should have one because

(01:08:43):
we're woting for them. Should have had us write the
movie really like I know that we barely existed at
this time that they should have led us. Yeah, you
were a fetus, maybe a fetis and I was six
years old in the first grade. I think that that's
an amazing that's a really cool progressive strandwriting team is
and we would have been able to comment on aging

(01:09:05):
women as a fetus and a six year old, So
there are the better choice than two men. Isn't that
insane someone who hasn't been born as a better choice,
But it is true in the in this case of yeah,
it's just it's good intentions. But I feel like, you know,
with the benefit of time, we now understand that, um,

(01:09:29):
two men are very rarely going to write a realistic,
compelling relationship between two women, whether it's like gritty realism
or camp. It just you just you just need someone
in the room. So two nippies kicking one each of
them same, I'll do the same. Yea. Now they both
got a full second for them. Congratulations Isabella, you're out

(01:09:50):
of luck. And folks, that was the Death Becomes Her episode.
Thanks for tuning in, and we just wanted to remind
you that was an unlocked Matreon episode. If you want
seventy plus more episodes like that, they're all over at
Patreon dot com, slash the Bechtel Cast, slash Bechtel Cast.

(01:10:13):
Sorry my brain is putting um Patreon dot com slash
Bechtel Cast. You will get two extra episodes a month
and a Titanic bonus dream for September, one of many
Titanic bonuses on the Matreon because we also have a
three hour and fourteen minutes commentary track in which we

(01:10:34):
watched Titanic and commented on it. We have one where
we're drunk on Thanksgiving watching Titanic a couple of years ago.
That's a fun one, and then we have another one
that I don't remember why we I think that one
was just everything we didn't cover in the first one.
The second that the follow up aisode was pretty comprehensive
of like everything we've learned about Titanic since our first

(01:10:56):
episode with a parliament nantrella, which is on this and
it's dense. Papers could be written, Please don't write them. Well,
here's the thing. I want to do another Titanic episode, obviously,
because I've completely come around on a bunch of things,
even since the last time we recorded. Okay, I'm I'm

(01:11:19):
fully down. Yeah, Team Fabritt CEO, That's what I'm that's
my news stance. Also, this this is our first This
is our first time doing Titanic since we realized the
whole DiCaprio fully closed underwater, which really changes your read
of the entire movie. You we have to look at
it from an entirely New lens Now cinematic language is

(01:11:41):
so dense. Uh oh my, you can just I mean,
we'll listen to this episode in the future and be like, wow,
the air quality was just not good. Uh the We're like, no,
it's the thematic implications of Leonardo DiCaprio being underwater while
he's wearing clothes. It means something everythang. Uh, we love you.

(01:12:07):
Thank you for bearing with us. Also remember to um
check out our Titanic or no our our Twilight live stream.
Our Twilight live stream is next Friday. Jacob benefiting Fatima
eball zoo fair Um, she is the best. Will be
posting about it NonStop. We can't wait. And if you

(01:12:28):
want to get merch, that's over t public dot com
slash the beck Doel Cast. Follow us on social media
at your leisure at becktel Cast, especially because we're going
to be um posting all the information about the Twilight
live read slash roast on our social media platform. We're
gonna be real annoying about it. You're not going to

(01:12:50):
miss it. Uh, so we hope to see you at
the Twilight hang and nothing into the episode, right, I
think so we didn't we didn't cut it down uh
bye right bye bye