Easy A with Isa Mazzei

Caitlin, Jamie, and special guest Isa Mazzei attach the letter A to their clothes while they discuss Easy A and their A's stand for AWESOME.

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Beck dol Cast, the questions asked if movies
have women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends
and husbands? Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in
best start changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hello,
and welcome to the beck Del Cast. My name is
Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin Toronte, and this is

(00:21):
our podcast where we look at how women are portrayed
in movies. Wow. I was trying to think of a
fun intro for today, and then all three of us
realized that none of us had actually read The Scarlet Letter,
and so it was impossible to reference it because we
never read the book, nor had I seen the Demi
Moore version of it. Nor have I Yeah, I kind

(00:42):
of want to now based on the description that she's
like naked in the bathtub and doing a fake British accent.
I do love a bad accent in a movie. It
doesn't take me out of it at all. He pulls
me closer, It gets me right where they want me,
and that pass the Bechdel test it which is if
you're not familiar. The media metric that we use as

(01:04):
a jumping off point, also called the Bechdel Wallace test,
and it requires that two female identifying characters speak to
each other in the movie that they're in. They should
have names, and they should not talk about a man. Yeah,
for at least two lines, which most movies, uh don't.
It's a lot of them just really don't. They don't

(01:24):
even try. We've got I'm excited to talk about the
movie today because we've got like a fun mixed bag
of of a movie. It's two thousand ten written all
over it. It's really having it both ways this movie. Um,
but I'm really excited. It's been like a long time request.
We've been getting this request for years, ignoring it for

(01:45):
some reason. And then our wonderful guest was like, how
have you not done this movie? We're like, I don't.
I don't know why. This was a hill we chose
to die on for so long. The Lovely movie. It's
it's fun, it's fun, the teaches in it, the two
She's firing on all cylinders. I can't wait to talk
about the tooch. Penn, how do you say his name?

(02:06):
Penn Badgley? I don't know Bedley, I don't know. He's
in that very scary show that I watched all of
even though it makes me feel horrible. Which one he
plays a stalker? You, Yeah, it's every It's so it's
I think that that show is like so every like
over the top problematic stalker trope that I don't even

(02:28):
feel anything watching it. Like it's just so it's all
of them at once. It's crazy. Probably won't watch it, Yeah,
probably don't. Um. We teased our guests, but then we
didn't actually introduce her, so let's do that now. She
is a screenwriter, producer. She's the writer of the film
cam on Netflix. She's the author of the upcoming memoir
cam Girl, coming out on November twelve. It's mataiea. Hi,

(02:54):
Hi guys, welcome, Thank you so much for having me
where cam Heads. We're so excited you're here and we're
talking about easy a Yes, two thousand ten teen comedy
is then we were short in this. Yeah, Emma Stone's
first starring vehicle. Remember the World before Emma Stone, I

(03:16):
barely do. And it's also Amanda Bindes is last. Yeah,
and Lane is in it for a second. Yeah, she
is from Lizzie McGuire. Yeah, Miranda, she shows up for
one line. Yeah, she doesn't even have a name in
the movie, like her credit is just girl on the
Street or something. Yeah that I forgot about that, but

(03:36):
it's every like I checked Lilane's I am dB. Maybe
we'll say once a year. It occurs to me to
just check in and I always see that credit. I'm like,
I have what was that? And now I know? Very good.
She shines Lisa Coudras in this movie. Yes she is,
and I think a role that we'll get to. But
it reminded me a lot of the Jessica Williams role

(03:58):
in books. Aren't oh sure the way that it plays
out and how much I didn't care for it. But
Amanda Binds is basically playing the same character that Mandy
Moore does. Yeah, yeah, which is I love Amanda Binds
to the end of year, but the Mandy Moore character
is way better. Sure, I need to rewatch Saved, but

(04:22):
saved it a long time. That would be an interesting one.
We've gotten requests, man, We've just we've ever well, the
thing is we just stop ignoring people. It's not that
we're annoying people, is that we've gotten requests for probably
every movie ever made. We've gotten thousands upon thousands of
requests were so cool and popular. Made a short film

(04:46):
fifteen years ago, and while it doesn't have much of
a cult following, I think there's a lot to discuss.
You're like, well, we'll get there. This podcast is going
to go on for five years and we'll get there. Uh, Sosa,
what's your history relationship with the movie? Easy? Um, it's
hard to say. You know, I don't like remember the
first time I saw it. Um. I know we had

(05:06):
it on DVD, and I remember it was a movie
that like my sister and I watched over and over
and over and over again. Um, both because we liked it,
but also because it was like one of the last
DVDs that we bought that we had, you know that,
Like it was right at the kind of the end
of like buying dv shots. And I just I remembered
really really relating to Emma Stone in it like a lot.

(05:28):
So yeah, So that's kind of like been my relationship
with it. It's been a movie that I've revisited a lot.
I would say, since it came out, Jamie, what about you.
I remember seeing this movie in theaters. It came out
when I was like like my senior year in high school. Um,
and so I went to see it with all my
friends and we were, I don't know, like we loved it.

(05:50):
We were really hyped on Emma Stone, and I think
in some ways like it. It felt like pretty different
to most of the team comedies that you see. And yeah,
I don't know, I really liked it. I've seen it
maybe four or five times before this, but never was
thinking about it as hard as I was this past time.
And I think that this is like one of my

(06:11):
favorite Stanley Tucci roles, Oh my goodness, and Patricia Clark said,
is great. That's the mother right, Yeah, she's so good. Yeah,
I and I forgot Ali. This is really the most
two thousand ten movie of all time. Ali Michalka of
Ali and the dental break up song. Okay, wait to

(06:34):
church Church something like that. It's really good. Do they
just released a song that I heard and I had
no idea with them and it's actually incredible. That's awesome.
Wait what character does she plays? She plays Rhiannon. Oh yeah, yeah, goodness. Yeah,
so it is the most two thousand time movie of
all time and uh for that, I have no choice,

(06:57):
but too, I mean class at two dozen tend gettle
of it. My goodness, what's your history? I saw it.
It came out when I was I guess, like probably
twenty four, and I wasn't necessarily like the target demo,
having aged out of being a teenager brag, But um,

(07:17):
I liked it. I remember thinking like, the jokes were
pretty funny, the dialogue was like quippy, and I enjoyed it.
But I think I only had seen it that one time,
and then revisiting it this time, I was like, oh, okay,
you you tried to do something and then you only
got part of the way there, and then he made
a bunch of missteps movie. So I'm excited to talk

(07:41):
about it. Yeah, yeah, I'm psycked. Um should I just
dive into the recap? Yeah? Okay and easy. You can
inter at the recap whenever you want. It's the best part,
every word. I have a lot to say. So the
story is told partly via Army Characters video blog or

(08:03):
vlog is the kids are calling it these days. I
love how prototypical it is in this movie, where there
she's like, you have to go to free alive dot com.
There's a live stream happening there. It won't be saved
six pm sharp. It was so it was great. And
what she's doing in this vlog is recounting the events

(08:27):
of the movie. So we meet all of Pendergast. That's
m A. Stone's character. She starts out, your average invisible
teen girl about to graduate from high school in she's
not like the other girls. She's not like the girls.
Um yeah, and OHI, yes, California. Ever heard of it? Um?

(08:48):
Probably not. That's a weird place I've never been. If
you don't feel like my writing partners from OHI, and
it's like very like mine and and all you OHI
heads dive into my mentions if I'm getting is completely wrong.
But there's a huge class disparity where it's like the
surfer class and then just insanely wealthy people. Just so

(09:10):
that there's and there's a lot of camps there. Oh sure.
It's like on the edge of like a huge national park,
I think park. It's a weird, fun place. My writing
partner's dad is in a surf cult in OHI. Oh
that's the guy who's in a surf called the Barbecue Surfers. Yeah,
I remember this from our point breakup star. Oh yeah, Okay,

(09:30):
I'll shut up about the barbecue surfers. We've rehashed this before.
That was quite all right. So they're in Ohai, California,
and Olive, yeah, she's, you know, not like the other girl.
She's invisible, and to avoid going camping with her best
friend Rhiannon and her weird family, she lies and says
that she has a date that weekend with this guy

(09:51):
named George, who we know she just made up um
and Rhannon becomes convinced that all of lost her for
ginity with this guy, but she instead she was doing
that really funny Natasha Beddingfield. But I've got a pucket
full of sensions. I still love at it playing it
from a greeting cars, so funny, great montage. Emma Stone

(10:14):
is really good. I like, I fluctuate on her so much,
but she's amazing in this movie I tend to agree with.
And so Rhannon thinks this about Alive and for some reason,
all of for reasons that she says she doesn't even understand.
She's like, yes, that did happen. I did have sex
with him, which is overheard in the bathroom by Mary

(10:35):
Ann Bryant. That's the Amanda Bind's character she's like the
like holier than now religious extremists, like goody two shoes type.
She's very like oppressively religious stereotype. And she starts spreading
rumors all over school about all of having sex. And
then suddenly everyone is paying attention to Olive because they

(10:57):
think that she has sex, and she tries to tell
Marian that she was just lying about having done that,
but it doesn't work. But also, like Olive admits that
she's like kind of enjoying the attention she's getting for
the first time because before this she was invisible. And
then during an English class discussion about the Scarlet Letter,

(11:19):
Marian Thomas Hayden Church cool guy teacher. Yeah, the adults
in this movie are maybe too cool, but we can
talk about that later. Yeah, unrealistic adult portrayal, because as
an adult right now, I am extremely uncool. I've never
I Also, there were a few times, I mean, and

(11:40):
it's like a teen movie, so it's like who cares,
But there were a few times where Thomas Hayden Church
was doing something dorky that was being very well received
in class, Like you would have been annihilate at Brockton
High School, Sir. He was like, let me wrap about
Jess kids and guys, I'm like, you would have been
on the floor, have been just People won't stand for that.

(12:01):
Teens will not stand for teachers wrapping. They won't um.
So then in during class, Marian's friend calls all of
a skank, and all of response by calling her a twat,
and it gets her sent to the principal's office. And
then she gets detention with this kid, Brandon, who is
being bullied for being gay, and then they talk about

(12:23):
the idea of like standing out and blending in, and
based on an idea that all of gives him, Brandon
decides to pretend to be straight at least until like
they all graduate and leave this town. And he convinces
her to help him make people think that the two
of them have sex, and she's like, okay, fine, there's

(12:46):
a party tomorrow night. Let's go and pretend to have
sex at this party. And then like everyone will overhear
and they'll think you're a stud, and they do just that.
Another funny scene jumping on the bed and screaming. Right,
the premises flawed, but the scene in the payoff is funny,
And then afterwards everyone does think that Brandon is a stud.

(13:08):
But then they're looking at Olive and they're like except
for Todd the pen Badgely he's not like the other boys.
He's the Mascot's the mascot. She's had a crash on
him since she was in eighth grade. They almost kissed
back then, but then they didn't because he wasn't ready

(13:29):
to kiss yet. And they're friendly and they chat and
then also maybe he even likes her question mark pen bag.
Really he was on Gossip Girl, right, I never watched that.
I don't know either. I think he was Okay, I
think so, which is funny because they she references that
show in this movie. Do you think pens in the

(13:50):
audience like Hollywood's crazy? I do think that he's like
that all the time. So then she receives a gift
card from Brandon, which one does. She I was trying
to keep track of who gives her what gift card
because that target compelling to me? Okay, targeting hundred dollar
I think target gift card. And he gives her a vibrator, Yeah,

(14:13):
he vibrator, which is good looking out sure in high
school though, like I don't believe that, right, is there
a sex shop in OHI or did he have to
drive down to Los Angeles their seniors in high school? Right, yeah,
they don't have they are because she gets the Natasha
Beddingfield card that she gets is a graduation card. It's

(14:36):
like congratulations yeah from her grandma. It right. So she
hears from Rhiannon that everyone thinks that all of is
a dirty skank, and then they're getting a big fight
about it, and then all of decides to double down
on this quote dirty skank image. So there's a sewing
montage because women be sewing. And then she shows up

(15:01):
to school in this very sultry outfit with a big
red as onto her tongue or like what a dork
just making a literary reference in her outfit. Yeah, And
then she gets approached by this kid, Evan, who knows
the truth about what happened with Brandon, and he offers

(15:23):
all of another hundred dollar gift card to also spread
rumors about them doing sex stuff, and it turns out
to be from auto Zone. I think it's later confirmed.
He offers her a different one, but then when she
confronts him later about it, she's like, it was from
Autozon and I don't even have a car, like if

(15:45):
cards are funny because they were all like there was
like the home depot, there was auto zone. It's like
you're like, what is in this? For one was like
a bed bath then beyond cupan yeah yeah, yeah yeah.
Not a great negotiator, and she eventually agrees to this,
and then she starts doing it for several other boys

(16:06):
in her school as well, and then the rumor that
all of solicits sex for money also starts spreading rapidly
throughout the school. And then things take a turn when
she learns that one of her classmates, Mica, which is
Maryanne Bryant's boyfriend, got claimidia from the guidance counselor Mrs

(16:28):
Griffith Lisa Trudre Thomas Hayden Churches his wife, and all
of agrees to take the fall for it, saying that
she's the one who gave Mica clamidia so that Mrs
Griffith doesn't get fired for having sex with a student.
And then people are protesting all of led by Marian Bryant,

(16:49):
and they're trying to get her expelled. Ran And joins
in for some reason, Yes, that absolutely, it's because Olive
goes on the date with the guy that she likes.
But I think she turns on her way before that though,
why But I feel like she joins the Amanda bindsafter

(17:12):
on that. I think that makes sense. Yeah, And then
meanwhile Todd the Woodchuck boy Penn Badgeley, yes is uh.
He keeps popping up And then she's trying to figure
out if she should come clean about everything. And then
this guy Anson asks her out on a date and
it turns out that he just went out with her

(17:33):
so that he could say that they had sex, and
he tries to give her the two home Depot gift card,
and then he tries to kiss her. She has to
fight him off. And then Todd shows up right then
and he gives her a ride home and he's like,
I think you're great and maybe I can, like I
don't know, help you out with this whole thing. And
because all the guys that she had helped previously refused

(17:55):
to come clean about the whole situation, she decides to
do this vlog that we've been watching to tell her
side of the story, which she prefaces by performing a
musical number at a school pepper rally. Because I guess
she wishes that her life was Ferris Spieler's day off.

(18:18):
One of the more annoying aspects of the movie for me, Yeah,
I I do like in retrospect, like watching that scene
like almost ten years later and being like, oh, for
sure that Like everyone on set was like, the scene
is going to be iconic, and I did not remember
it had not remembered. Every time, I'm like, what is happening?

(18:41):
This is going to be in a montage at the
oscar It's like, and then she rides off with Todd
on a lawnmower and then they kiss, and then that's
the end of the movie. At the end of the
movie killing you know what, I was really impressed by
an easy what what what? I really loved and respected

(19:03):
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(19:26):
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(20:13):
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(21:01):
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(21:22):
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(21:49):
begin with this. There's a lot of there's a there's
a lot Well, I here's my initial thoughts. Right, So
the movie, thank you so much, thank you for giving
me this platform. I'm reclaiming my time. Thank you. Um.
This movie does some things right which are progressive and feminist,

(22:13):
and then it does a lot of things that are
very wrong because one of the themes of the movie,
it's like the core message, let's say, is the double
standard of sexually active men being considered studs and sexually
active women being considered sluts. In the movie draws attention
to that, calls it out, and we're like, whoa, yeah,

(22:34):
But the movie only goes so far with that message
because it ends up like demonizing the idea of women
having a lot of sex and having multiple sexual partners
through various lines of dialogue and different attitudes that characters have, etcetera.
My main thing with this movie that well, there was
first of all, like, in most respects, like I thought,

(22:55):
especially when I first saw the movie, I thought Emiston's
character was like the fucking coolest person the world. I
was like, I wish I were more like this character.
She was so cool. But most of the other women
outside of her mom, who is like, I feel like
pretty positive and supportive, but like all the other female
characters in this story are like vicious and trophy in

(23:19):
a lot of ways, and you get some shades of gray,
like with you get a little bit with the Rhiannon character.
You don't really get that much with the Marianne character.
But it's it's like this weird. I don't know, it
just felt a little off to me the way that
she is basically like, it seems like the movie has
decided like, well, women will turn on each other and

(23:39):
call each other sleds and this is the main problem,
you know what I mean, And whereas I feel like
kind of the guys end up looking a little more
goofy rather than very much a part of it. And
even the mom is kind of like sled Shaney, Like
when they have that conversation on the car, her mom
is like, you know, I used to sleep with a
ton of people and it was because I had really

(24:01):
low self esteem and then I met your dad and
now I'm like fine. And so even her mom, like
as supportive as she is, she's still slut shaming. So yeah,
every it's like every female I mean, everyone in this
movie is slut shaming, and that's part of the point,
but it just seems like the female characters, especially at
that high school, were so incredibly vicious. The Lisa Kudra

(24:23):
character is totally sold out and like literally is called
like an evil person. And I think that this movie
wouldn't have treated its main character the same way if
she had had sex, Like the that's what I'm saying, yeah,
like there's no I feel like the implication is, well,
she's a redeemable Like I like the end message of

(24:44):
the movie, like no matter what, it's no one's fucking business.
But that's not really what the movie was saying the
whole time, because because she was a virgin the whole time,
you don't need to really question what you're supposed to be, right.
I think if that character was actually having a lot
of sex with multiple partners, I don't think that is

(25:06):
not what happened in the movie, because I think the
movie really comes down against that type of behavior. For example,
so the romantic storyline with Todd, which there's parts of
it I like in parts of it, I don't like.
The part that I don't like is when they're like
in the car he's giving her a ride home, and
she's like, well, haven't you heard all these rumors about me?

(25:27):
And he's like, yeah, I've heard them, but I don't
believe them, which implies that he still likes her because
he doesn't think she's been sleeping with a bunch of
different people, implying that if he thought she was sleeping
with a bunch of different people, he would not like her. Yeah. Yeah,
there's like all this and it's weird because I definitely
I don't know. I I definitely did not pick up

(25:49):
on this when I first watched. But he's like, it's
all these little exchanges and lines that the subtext is like, well,
because this is a lie, that's the only reason this
is okay, and she were telling the truth, she's irredeemable
and bad. And then you know, so even at the end,
she says that line where when she's on her vlog

(26:09):
dot com and she's like, you know how shitty it
feels to be an outcast warranted or not? And you're like,
what is the warranted or I didn't even catch that.
It's just like a little line that you're like, okay,
I like, that's the values of this movie aren't really
what they're advertising. And then a few other lines like
the one that you said Lisa about like her mom
being like, yeah, I slept around because I had no

(26:31):
self worth, and then like Lisa kudrow House a line
that says, my god, character disaster, where is it? It's
something like, oh, it's real horror. Can't admit it to herself,
trust me? Yeah. Well, the what's confusing is that there
are some characters who are slut shaming, and they're framed

(26:53):
as being bad and wrong, like the Amanda Bind's character
and like her whole friend group. But then the movie
turns around owned and then like I interpreted that to
be like again, it's just like a this movie was
written by a queer writer, but a queer male writer
who I guess like he went on, you know, he
did interviews around this movie and said that the character

(27:14):
Brandon was based on his experience in high school closet. Yeah, Like,
it does give you some good subtext, but it does.
It does seem like the like decision being made by
like the writer, director, whomever else is that teen girls
are so fickle and we'll turn on you for absolutely
no reason, and we'll one eight, And I mean, I

(27:36):
think you almost see that in Rhiannon's character. At the beginning,
she's like, you have to be a slut. And then
when Emma Stones's character is like okay, and then she's
like I hate you, You're horrible, Like yeah, it's like not,
it's hard to trace her logic, Like she starts. Rhiannon
starts out by talking openly about sex. She like screams

(27:58):
the word climax and of their teacher, like she's so
excited when she thinks that all of has had sex
for the first time, she's like, oh, you've joined the
super slut club with me. And then as soon as
all of starts to get this reputation for reasons that
I don't understand, she's like, well, everyone thinks you're a

(28:20):
dirty skank, and so do I. And it's like, well,
which is it, Like are you excited about like your
friend's sexuality or And then I think what happened. It's
like the writer needed to like heighten the conflict for
all of So it's like, let's put her in conflict
with her best friend. How do I do that make
her completely change everything about the character that I've established,

(28:42):
Like it just doesn't. But see, I for me disagree
a little bit because I think my experience in high
school was actually I knew girls that were very similar
to that, and I think, maybe to give the writer
too much credit, but I almost feel like it's pointing
a finger at the fact that this kind of like
the toxic ideas that we hold around owned virginity and
chastity with women kind of necessarily pit women against each other,

(29:06):
and this almost like who's a virgin, who's not a virgin,
who's sluttier, who's not sluttier? And like I remember there
was a girl in my high school who like used
to lord her virginity over other people, but then it
which it turned out that she was like having anal
sex the whole time, but like her virginity was intact,
and so it was like always this and then as
soon as people found that out, then all of a

(29:27):
sudden she was slutty and horrible, and then others were good.
And like even girls I knew who were like really
proud of being, you know, slutty, there was always like
like a limit and then if you went past that limit,
then you were bad. And I feel like this like
hierarchy of sluttery actually is really at least two to

(29:49):
my high school experience. I don't know if it's too think. Yeah,
there's a bit of that in my high school as well. Yeah,
so I feel like maybe Rhiannon is like comfortable with
like up to a certain point. Sure it doesn't because
she does and then she does. She does celebrate it
until the point where like Emma Stone stops telling her
about it. That's true, and she's like a betrayal best friend. Yeah,

(30:12):
and then she and then when it gets to be
her crush, it's I mean, honestly, I would join the
picket line as well. She don't grun a day with
your best friend's crush, it's the rule. No. And it's
super weird that Emma Stone only gets upset that they
might get seen. She's like, I don't want them to
I don't want her to see us, But it's like
you still went see I still I would argue I
wish that we knew more about Rhannon in general, because

(30:35):
I agree that you're saying, and I think that like
that is like an interesting thing to explore, but it's
but we don't really know that much about her, So
it was like hard for me to glean, like we
don't really know much about like what her sexual history is,
because I feel like this whole movie is kind of
hinged around, like you know, exaggeration of what your sexual

(30:56):
experiences for social acceptance, cloud whatever, and we don't really
know if Rhannon is, you know, telling the truth, is
she exaggerating? We don't really know. Yeah, that's true. She's
not given a lot of backstory, no, which is a bummer.
I feel like there's there's space for that. And from
the very beginning, I was like, Ama Stone is not
a freakod friend to her because she's just like she

(31:17):
she lies about well, I mean, she she lies to
get out of that trip. And then yeah, I I
don't know Ema Stone. At times I understood her motivations
and other times I was like, you're just like fucking
yourself over. I think they're both not good friends to
each other. That's true. Yeah, that's really true, which is
a lot of high school friendships like that. Tracks. Yeah,

(31:40):
although they're supposed to be like best friends, I feel
like like how they're yea since like forever right unless
her desktop image, that's like serious friendship. I mean, and
I think this is pretty standard for like teen movies,
but I don't think the complications that come with many
teen best friendships, like the portrayal of it in this

(32:01):
movie and in most teen movies, it's not very nuanced. Yeah,
I think it's like it was clear to me just
like based on how their friendship was right, And I
was like, I don't think a woman wrote this movie,
and then I checked it, like, no they did not,
because there is there are like it feels like some
kernels of like authenticity, and I like to see like,

(32:22):
you know, female characters in conflict with each other and
like both kind of being assholes in different ways. Like
that's great, but it just sometimes it was a little
bit uncanny valley to track in this one. For sure.
I wanted to touch a little bit more on the
romantic storyline with all of and Todd and badly. Yes,

(32:43):
I kept forgetting he was in the movie, and then
he would show up again. I was like, oh, yeah,
I guess that this is you know, we care about this. Yeah.
He also wasn't given a lot of a story, No, No,
he was just kind of there, right. The little back
story we do get about him is that all of
him played seven minute in Heaven when they were in
eighth grade. So they go into this room and he's like, oh, actually,

(33:05):
I'm not ready to kiss yet. Could we just tell
everyone that we kissed? And she's like sure. And then
I liked that. You know, you see like a young
boy who's not ready to kiss, because there's like so
much pressure on boys starting at a very young age
to like be sexually active and to like start as
soon as possible. So I was like, oh, that's that's nice,

(33:28):
because like the idea of like a boy not being
ready yet, there's an idea that there's no such thing
is that? And of course there's so and it's very damaging.
And yeah, I like that moment. I like that the
little boy was able to be not ready for something
and that was like treated very respectfully. Yeah, it wasn't
like an emasculation thing. It was like yeah. And then

(33:48):
so like all of goes on that date with Anson,
he tries to surprise kiss her several times. That's framed
as being wrong, unwanted, assaulty. In the contrast, she gets
in the car with Todd and he's been framed as
being this viable romantic option for Olive Chuck Todd Chuck

(34:09):
Todd and then he asks permission to kiss her. She
says no, and then he's like visibly disappointed, but then
he apologizes. He's like, oh, I'm so sorry, and she's like, no,
I just mean like I don't want to kiss you
right now, but I do want to french you some
other time. So just the fact that we see like
a boy asking for permission to kiss a woman appreciate

(34:31):
taking the no. Yeah, he didn't really push it. Yeah,
so that was like, oh cool, that was a yeah,
I liked that scene too. But then there's like that
we're I mean, it's just such a mixed bag, that
very mixed where he's like, well, I want to kiss
you because you because you because you're in text. He
asks that, she's like why are you interested in me

(34:51):
all of a sudden, and then he's given this line
which is just kind of a non answer. He's like
I don't know, and we're like, do you, because like,
you know, she's been around this whole time, but all
of a sudden, now you're in love with I guess.
But don't we see her like kind of trying to
talk to her before like the rumors start. Does that happen.
I can't totally remember they we see them like we

(35:13):
see like they're kind of flirty. Yeah, yeah, they have
like they have like a moment, I guess, yeah, but
he does like explicitly stayed like, oh well I don't
believe those rumors, which is why I still have a
crush on your right, yeah, which is gosh, so yeah,
I don't, I don't know. And and there, I mean,
this is sort of this like hearkens back to like

(35:34):
I feel like a million episodes we've done at this point.
But the whole like obsession with eighties movies I've found
so annoying. They're just like a montage of movies that
we've already fucking Like, what is the dog that gets shot?
It's not Lassie old Yeller, old Yeller. Yeah, we've already
old yellow these movies and Emma Stones out here, Like

(35:56):
I just wish there were more Judd Nells that you're like, oh,
I was, like I love John Hughes. Was then it
literally ends with the sisso of them together. The whole
thing a lot out of me. That part she likes

(36:19):
sites these very problematic like rape movies like sixteen Candles
and Breakfast club and it's like, oh, this is what
you're aspiring too well, which is again, I mean it's
very two. And it's also like another kind of like
little missed opportunity for like it's not even it's like
not uncommon for people to be like, oh, I wish

(36:40):
my life were like this movie that happened before I
was born. But then it just doesn't challenge your examine
anything of like oh maybe that shouldn't be what and
then she just gets it. But I feel like often
that's all we remember about those movies, right, It's like
you just remember like the iconic moment where you're like
overcome with love and emotion and you're like, oh, it's
so beautiful, and then you go back and actually watch
it and you're like, oh, wait, disaster. So that I mean, yeah,

(37:08):
in general, the there are parts of the Olive Todd Romantics.
It was it's not the worst teen comedy relationship by
a long shot. Or there's definitely room for improvement. Yeah yeah,
that's I mean, that's that's this whole movie. For me.
It's like we are on the right track. I can

(37:29):
I can feel it doesn't quite go the whole way.
Can we talking about the Lisa Kujar character that was
so and it did remind me a lot of like
a very similar storyline and failing of the Jessica Williams
character in Book Smart this year, where it's like, oh,
they want to have I think something that would have

(37:51):
been done in the eighties without making it clear what
the age you know, content is. But they're just trying
to update that, you know, like Trophy story line of
like the teacher and the student hooking up but they're legal,
so it's okay, but it's still not good and like, yeah,
Lisa Kutro is made out to be such an evil
shrew from moment one, like it just it sucked, right.

(38:14):
She's like, the first thing we hear her say, I
think is, um, I'm the guidance counselor. I should know
who all my students are, especially the ones who dressed
like prostitutes, and I'm supposed to be like and then
she just kind of like shoves condoms at her. She's like,
I'm always here to support you and listen to you.
And then but and Emma Stone is legitimately trying to

(38:34):
talk to her, and she's like, I want to tell
you what's going on? Because it's terrible and I'm really upset,
and she's just kind of like, here, take the condoms,
get out of my office, right. And then there's that
scene their last scene together, which is like so egregious
and you're like, oh, I hope Lisa Kudro got paid
a lot of money to say this. But that whole
scene where this is during sort of the like series

(38:55):
of scenes where Emma Stone is going back to the
people she's agreed to lie for and say I can't
do this anymore. So she gets Lisa Coudro, and Lisa
Coudro is like, who are people going to believe? They're
not gonna believe you, They're gonna believe me that. You're like,
oh right, boy, this is so yeah. That was like
a brutal just I mean, there's really nothing to sell

(39:16):
out with this character because she's presented as unsympathetic like it.
I like, that's like the best example in this movie
of how the movie really feels about women having sex.
Is they like and then her husband is like perfect exactly,
he does nothing wrong. He's like the students love him,
everyone loves him. He's devastated she, like Emmas don't apologizes

(39:39):
to him on her web. That's what really especially join
me crazy about this too, is that like all of
takes responsibility for being a home wrecker, and she's like,
oh man, I shouldn't have told it. I feel I
regret telling him, and it's like, you didn't do anything,
like it was these two other parties of Mrs Griffith

(39:59):
and then this Mica kid who ruined that marriage, not you,
and the Mica character by extension too, it was like
even there was like a little something in that character
we barely see. But the only reason that he, you know, says,
oh I had sex with all of Pendergast and she
gave me chlamydia was because his like shrewy mom character

(40:23):
was like tell me what happened. She was literally hitting
him in the hospital. Yeah, like in his hospital bed.
So like even that like little moment finds a way
to like push the blame off on a female character
we barely know, Like he wouldn't have just done it
his mom was whacking him at the hospital and then yeah,
so it's just like all these little you're just like, ah,

(40:45):
come on, we and I don't know, and just the
I don't know it was it made clear I was
having trouble figuring out was it implied that Lisa Kudro's
character had given Mica clamidia? What was Yes, I believe
that is. I think that's what Olive said when she
like yelled it at the teacher. She was like, your

(41:08):
wife gave a student clamydia. And then also the like
a kid when he's like talking on the phone to
the person who we don't know who it is yet
and he's like, I don't care that you gave me chlamydia.
I still love you. And then it cuts to Lisa Kudro,
which is just a total fumble of like handling a
storyline with a character who has uh sexually transmitted disease.

(41:31):
It like plays it off as a joke, and it
also serves to make Lusa Kudrow's character I think the
movie intends to like by giving her clamdia. That's like
a slut shamy like things that the movie is doing
because because she wants to make her less sympathetic, right
because she she didn't get it from Micah. Mica got
it from her. As far as we understand, she might

(41:53):
have gotten it from her husband, Mr Griffith, the person
that we all are supposed to love, right, but I
probably think it so I guess she got it from
someone else. Yeah, so it's like you get punished for
being for having multiple sexual partners. Yeah. It also bothered
me how like later, like Michael was exiled to like

(42:14):
his grandparents house in Florida or whatever, and he's still
like scratching his crotch like like as if chlamydia you
can't just get rid of it during forever. He's now
tarnished and it's gross, And I was just like, that's
not It's just like it's like the writer either was
making a joke of it or had just not even
done a light google of like what that which sucks

(42:37):
because it's like st D S, S, T I S,
whichever are like so stigmatized and played as a like
thoughtless joke in so many I think in like this
genre is like probably one of the more casual offenders
of just like playing it off and and it you know,
it's it's not helpful to anyone he gets. I mean, yeah,

(43:00):
if you if you have chlamydia, you don't have to
move to Florida. That's just what I want everyone to know.
Just like it's okay you can't get an anibiotic and
you're really just move on with your life a miracle.
We got to take another quick break, but then we'll
come right back. Can we talk about man, wow, Jamie

(43:29):
Not to get controversial on the pod, yes, please go on.
I want to talk a little bit about how boys
or men. I don't think they're supposed to be boys,
but everyone's visibly but you know how the boys who
ask all of to lie for them are portrayed in

(43:50):
because I thought it was like something that I had
to go back and like rewatch, especially that scene with
the Evan where we do see at every step of
the way, starting with Brandon, all of has to be convinced.
I would almost throw the word coerced out there in
some cases of to do it in the first place,

(44:12):
where she starts out with the very like two thousand
ten high school or thoughtless idea of like, oh, well,
you don't want people to make fun of you because
you're gay, just tell him you're straight. You're like, okay,
that's okay. But then it's like that, I mean, the
writer is pulling from his own experience from that, so
I'm like, okay, uh, if that is what's happening. But

(44:34):
then he you know, I feel like the reason that
it is okay for them to do that is because
they are quote unquote bullied, and so it makes it
okay for them to ask this unreasonable favor of Olive.
And like, I thought that the Evans seen stuck out
to me the most, as you know, because he asks her,

(44:55):
will you do this for me? She says no, fuck you,
and then he says, yeah, I mean, of course you're
saying no, I'm such a loser. Before before he says,
I'll pay you a hundred dollars. Also, I don't need
your permission here, which means like, I'm going to take

(45:16):
advantage of your reputation and exploit it from my own
personal gain, and I'm going to do it whether you
like it or not. And she's furious with him, rightfully so.
And then he does the one guilds her and says,
I'm just you know, he calls himself a fat piece
of ship, and then she takes pity on him, and
then she and I feel like the movie, they're like, oh,

(45:38):
well of course she would, you know, Like it's just
she has every right to be like, no, like, sort
this out on your own right, go you know, go
talk to Lisa Kudrow, I don't know, like and then
just you know, telling them. But but she's kind of
repeatedly guilted by these outcast, misfic guys, and it sort
of I mean, because this movie talks so much about

(45:58):
eighties tropes, it feels like almost a like a John
Hughes Nerd character that is like an character who is
like I feel entitled to this and because I can't
have it, you know, you have to do this for me.
That kind of like coercion narrative, which sucks because again,

(46:19):
it's like it's a there there is the opportunity here
for those themes to be like explored a little more thoughtfully.
And it's the thing that always bugs me is was like,
there's like it would be funnier too, if she was
like pushing back on this stuff instead of just folding
or like negotiating for herself. Like that's the thing that
irritated me to because there's this moment where she's like,

(46:40):
all right, this is happening, I'm just going to own
it and I'll just do it. But then yeah, like
we said, she's getting like cent off to the body
shop and like, you know, an AutoZone gift card or
whatever and like stuff that she can't actually use. And
I really wanted her to like build an empire and
be like, actually, you know, I want five hundred dollars
to the store that actually shop at, right, because in

(47:02):
that scene with Evan, she's like, Okay, I want a
hundred dollar gift card in my locker and she says, um,
but we didn't have sex. You can tell people that
you like, fondled my chest And he's like, a hundred
bucks is pretty steep for that. Can't you say that?
Like you rubbed my pants and I touched your butt

(47:25):
and stuff like that, And she's just like whatever, And
it maybe it's commentary on how like girls and women
are never taught to negotiate. Who knows, it's probably not
as well. That then kind of brings up the conversation
of sex work and is this character could she be
considered a sex worker? Yeah? I mean I think so,

(47:49):
Like I think a lot of sex work doesn't have
to be literal sex, and a lot of it is
not a lot of it isn't, and a lot of
it is like caretaking and even helping with image and
with public persona and all of that is a huge
element of sex work. So I think, yeah, there's definitely
sex work in this movie. I would say for sure.
But then the movie also like shames sex work and

(48:13):
sex workers at different points. Yeah, like it calls her
says she dresses like a prostitute or she looks like
a stripper, but don't worry a high class strippers like
for governors. I think her dad says that it disappointing.
And then there's a moment where she is talking to
the ants and guy and she's like, I'm not actually

(48:36):
having sex with people for money, with like this tone
of disgust in her voice. It's just like another way
that this movie is trying to have it very much
both ways, where they will like go all the way
up to the line of like showing sex work, but
they won't call it that, and they have to condemn
everything else that falls under umbrella. It's only okay because

(48:56):
she's not actually sexual, right, And yeah, it's just Oh,
also she's given gift cards to retail stores because women
be shopping. There's I know, I'm just think that was
I was. And then like male coded stores, which they
play as a oftentimes why would a woman want to
go to home depot And it's like, okay, why bad joke,

(49:20):
just bad just not yeah there, Yeah, I was. I
was frustrated. I never really thought about how little she
negotiates um because that's like I feel like that raises
the stakes in a cooler way too, if she like
has this empire and there's more for her to lose
as opposed to she's just taking whatever is offered and

(49:41):
it's all you know, reputation game. Yeah, and I feel
like the fact that she doesn't really get anything that
she wants out of it just kind of doubles down
on the idea that you know, like she owes someone something,
you know, like it's just it's you know. The moment
I did like was when she pays when she goes
on the date with Anson before he turns on her,

(50:03):
and she just pays for it with one of the
gift cards. I thought that was a cool moment where
like a lot of those movies at that time, like
you know, see women paying for dates, and she doesn't
without making it. She's just like, yeah, I have money now,
and I'm going to just pay for this lobster din
or no problem. Um, it's kind of a badass moment,
just like keep the tip we're leaving because they go
to the lobster the Lobster Shock, and then Rhiannon's there.

(50:27):
I have to like sneak out when you run into
your ex Bustia lobster shop, you know, with her parents.
Also that parent drug is so corny of like we're
in California, so everyone's like naked, you're eating Payotie burgers,
right Like that was like a little I don't know.

(50:51):
But then I texted Michaela, who's from oh Hi, about
that scene and she was like, oh, that was the
only part that I thought they got right about. She
was just like, yeah, but you know, we don't we
all oh Hi heads way and did you feel like
that was good? Oh Hi visibility? Let us know. But

(51:11):
another like set of parents or adults in this movie
here were like just like so freaking cool, right because
man is as much as I love the Tooch and
he is the best part of every movie he's in.
But like the like her parents are, I don't know,
it's everyone's just it's like they're like so much of this.

(51:35):
You can tell that the writer of this movie has
watched a lot of Gilmore Girls based on how this
movie is written, which I love, but I feel like
they go the Gilmore Girls style of parenting too, to
the point where it seems like at some points it's
like your daughter is like having a tough time and
you just keep like poking your head and your room
being like hey, uh, don't worry by and I'm like, okay,

(51:59):
this is right right right that, And then a lot
of the conversations are like her parents making fun of
her for having a gay boyfriend and she like that's
not the thing, and they both do the I think,
like the casual they both are like, oh, I was
gay for a couple of weeks in college, like that

(52:21):
very two thousand thoughtless joke. I mean, the way queerness
is presented in general was peculiar, let's say, um, And
it is helpful to know the context of the writer
being a gay man who who is like pulling from
his personal experience and that's part of like what inspired

(52:44):
this story that he wrote, but again it's just kind
of under explored in the actual movie. And then the
way they talk about it as well, like the language
that gets used a lot of the times, and it
never takes challenges, you know, all of us like oh,
you know that Brandon kid and Rhanon's like, yeah, isn't
he a homo? And they like time they say like

(53:08):
the word homosexual with this just like hint of disdain
or dismissive and then like other otherness like oh, well
he's a homosexual. He's aid he's different, which I think
is a very two thousand ten of their like well,
I don't have a problem with it, but like gross,
you know, like yeah, like having it both ways, nos

(53:30):
of of this like time and then yeah, the whole
we already touched on this, but like the straight person
encouraging a queer person to like suppress your sexuality, and
then he's like, oh, hadn't thought of that? You're likely
And I get like a lot of like queer young
people do end up doing that to some degree, like

(53:52):
in high school, because they're trying to you know, it's
a self preservation thing. They're trying to avoid being bullied
and stuff like that. But and he gives this what
I've out was like a fairly well done verge of
tears monologue where he's talking about being tormented every day
at school and you know, we can fantasize about how
things will be different one day, but this is today
and today sucks, and like, please help me, I don't

(54:13):
know what I'm gonna do. And like that wasn't that
was like a that felt like a good authentic yes,
yeah I thought so. Yeah, but yeah, I'm interested to
hear from our queer listeners how they thought queerness in
general was depicted in this movie because it just rang
a little off, it was, I mean. And also the
fact that Brandon kind of disappears after like when she

(54:35):
goes back to talk to him. Oh, and then there's
that very bizarre, like problematic Huckleberry Finn joke that keeps
coming back that you're just like, has he read Huckleberry?
Like it was, so Brandon is gone. He like he
finds a boyfriend, and then does he finish high school?
He seems to have run away from it, runs away

(54:55):
from he seems okay, so he drops out and and
and leaves. But it's like character, we just see him
in a flash forward scene with a tasteless joke and
that's the last we see you. And I think it
kind of frames that whole thing is like a good thing.
It's almost like, look, he ran away and is in
love and everything's fine, and it's like he left his
home and he's a child and this is probably really

(55:17):
bad and like, but there's no nuance to it. It's
just like it's a joke. It's just a joke. Race
in general is another thing that it's not handled especially
well in this movie. Um it's a very white movie. Um,
most of the cast is white. The school that they
go to is predominantly white. I'm not sure how diverse

(55:38):
are like just seen in background shots at the high
school is people of color? Yeah, they're treated as like tokens,
props or punch lines. Basically all of has an adopted
brother who was black. But that just feels like a
very tokenized character with all the jokes about him being
adopted to Like that felt a little bit off to me.

(56:02):
I was like, how does it's played as like, Oh,
this is a jovial family moment. I'm like, but how
does he feel about these jokes? Right? All we know
about him is that he got a B plus on
his spelling test. All we find out about the whole
man He doesn't want to watch the bucket List because
why they still get Netflix DVDs in that household, and
I was like important representation, but yeah, I feel like

(56:27):
her brother is literally just there for Stanley to g
to be like, well, it's obvious he's adopted because he's
not white like us, Like that is the function of
that character. And then and then the way that the
Huckleberry Finn the So, how is that line first presented?
I don't want to get it wrong. Yeah, I've got
it here because it was cringe e the first time,

(56:48):
and then it came back and then yeah, so here's
what happens. Early on in the movie, all of is
talking about how, oh, the books we read in school
always seem to reflect like the t and age ankst
that we're going through, because she's talking about how the
scarlet letter relates to what's happening with her, uh in
present time. And then she's like, but the exception is

(57:09):
Huckleberry Finn. I don't know any teenage boys who have
run away with a big, hulking black guy. And then
at the end of the movie, Brandon has run away
from home with a black man. And then we see
them together watching Huckleberry Finn on film and they're watching
it like, oh, yeah, this is us, I guess, and

(57:31):
it's like, okay, so this black guy is the punch
line to this stupid joke that you set up and
was stupid then and it's stupid when we see it
again called back to and it's just like really icky
and weird. That was like a joke that you're just like,
has this writer read Huckleberry Finn? It just was confusing
or ever talked to a black person? Unclear? But yeah,

(57:55):
I mean the way that the very few non white
characters are treated are literally it's only in regards to
their race. Yeah, here's another example. There's an Indian kid
who gives her the off the body cue pump, and
then she calls him amigo, and then the voiceover kicks
in and says, I knew he wasn't Latino, but for

(58:17):
some reason, all these shady backdoor deals had me talking
like Carlito. And then she calls him essay. So it's like,
whoof all brown people are the same that Emma Stone
right the movie? Ah, Yeah, that seems just sucks all over,
very not good, very very uncomfortable. Um. Yes, race in

(58:39):
general is um, believe it or not not handled well
in a movie. What believable in furiod. Yeah. The background
on the other major credit that this writer has is
he wrote the do you remember like the horny Charlie
Brown play Dog Sees Gone Odd? I think that a

(59:02):
lot of people did it when I was in high
school to be edgy, but it's like Charlie Brown is
fucked up and he's horny. And he also wrote that
point makes me uncomfortable. I'm probably underselling it and maybe
it's like wonderful, but I just remember seeing it at
like a drama competition and being like, oh my god,
why is Charlie Brown so horny? Like he's ten? But

(59:25):
you know that's and and then the director is Will Gluck,
who also has directed Peter Rabbit and Peter Rabbit Too
well good for him. And there you go. And that's
the beginning, middle, and end of that incredible Yeah did
you did? Did you have any other stuff you wanted to?
My last thing? Yeah, it's that there's a point in

(59:47):
the movie where all of notices that her name anagrams
I love, which presents an opportunity for me to mention
how Caitlin Durante anagrams to such things as Latin dancer,
U T I one classic nine tip Dracula. I don't

(01:00:09):
have any new ones, but I just want to These
are the classics. Okay, this is hard John Hughes one, right,
these are the eighties ones Lauren d Titanic. And then
a newer one that I think maybe other people aren't
familiar with yet is but Jamie, you know this one
because we texted about it a Tan clarinet. I U

(01:00:31):
D wow, I like that one. Thank you. That's really good.
You have a perfect numbers. Yeah, I feel like mine
would be very weird. Well, you have TSE disease, Like,
what do you do with that? Let's find out. Just
give me a few minutes I can. I'll work my
magic for this topic. But yeah, I think that's it

(01:00:52):
for me. Like the big thing with me for this
movie is like, there need to be narratives that empower
women's sexuality. There are almost none of them in this movie.
Like starts to attempt to do that by calling attention
to this double standard, but it doesn't take it far enough,
and it still resorts to a lot of just slut

(01:01:13):
shaming attitudes and other missteps along the way. It's weird.
This is like kind of a funny movie to tackle,
because I do think that it is well intentioned, but
still kind of just indicates it of the time and
probably of the creative team a little bit that they
hadn't you know, fully worked out, because I would be

(01:01:35):
very surprised if you know, they looked at this like, oh, yeah, well,
you know, we're not shaming anyone in this. I think
that that's what they thought, is that they were up
prefting Team Girls. I see what they're going for, and
you know it was two thousand ten. Oh. Actually, my
real last thought is this, Um. I always appreciate when
a teen movie does not end in like prom or

(01:01:55):
some kind of like passion graduation see, which they totally
could have done. They could have done. Um. Instead, it
ends with the weird the vlog. Prior to that, it's
that weird like big musical number at the PEP rally,
and then it's her like riding off into the sunset

(01:02:16):
with her new hetero boyfriend. Like I feel would rather
end in graduation than as a John Hughes movie, right,
I feel like, actually the way I saw it ending
was that it ends with a vlog, which I actually
think is really powerful. Like I think my last thought
is something I think the film did well, which is

(01:02:36):
the reference to the Scarlet Letter, which to be fair,
I haven't read, but my understanding is that in the
Scarlet Letter, you know, she's forced to wear the A
because she's like a supposed adulter, and so she has
to wear this A, and the A is kind of
like this punishment. And then I think there's something in
the way that Emma Stone decides to label herself with

(01:02:57):
the A and everyone hates her for that, and I
think there is a really powerful statement on like women
owning their sexuality and having that not be okay that
I think the movie does a good job of pointing out.
And yeah, yeah, and in a way, the vlog like
kind of couching this story is like the ultimate way
of Emma Stone trying to own her own narrative and
take it back from all these people that have, you know,

(01:03:20):
made it about themselves. And so in that way, if
you see the ending of the film, I mean, it
does have that little John Hughes like tacked on bit
after the blog the vlog, but I think the vlog
frame was actually really like a cool thing. I did
appreciate that. Yeah, I really liked that and I genuinely
like where the movie lands on the topic of their

(01:03:40):
just like you know that ending line where she's like,
I might lose my virginity today six months from now
on my wedding night. It's no one's goddamn business. That's
an awesome message to end on. And I just wished
that everything that happened before it was before a little
more consistently. But I do that's like stuff like that
where you're like, this, it was really they were trying,

(01:04:01):
and it wasn't it was it was not Brianna's forgives her.
I think she like apologizes or although I'm Brianna has
as much to apologize to there, but they're talking in
there like sidekick all caps apology, I am sorry. Maybe
I'll move you back into my top eight now. But

(01:04:23):
well so that's a great point though, about like her
like taking like she she's like, here's my version of
the story, and I'm telecasting it out. She's basically making
a podcast if we think about it. But she's like,
I want the truth out there. I do really enjoy that.
But the romantic storyline did feel a little wedged in,
and I think it was like a studio I think

(01:04:46):
it might have been. I didn't hate the way. I
mean again, it was like it wasn't the worst teen
comedy romantic shoehorns subplot of all time. But you know,
I didn't have to be there. It would have been
more powerful if the movie just ended with her being like, yeah,
here's my story and I'm telling it in you guys
are going to college by She didn't have that line

(01:05:09):
in there where she was like now that I was
like seeing us such like a slut in school, like
no one actually wanted to date me, which is kind
of her motivation for going out with Anson. Again, it
didn't really come from anywhere, so I did feel kind
of shoved in there, But I did think that was
like an interesting point of just like how even perceived
sexually active girls are the country. Yeah exactly, that's like

(01:05:32):
my Donna horror thing. Yeah, it's trying this movie and
and and it is like, I mean when we talk
about this all the time, but like movies that are
well intentioned but flawed in this way, for for movies
that are well intentioned and slightly less flawed, progress is slow.

(01:05:56):
And I think that scene, my favorite scene, I think
is when she comes out after having sex with Brandon,
and he just so clearly contrasts the two experiences of
Brandon coming out the hero and her coming out and
no one's talking to her. Some girls give her side
and she kind of sneaks out of the party like
like she did something wrong, and that seemed to me

(01:06:17):
felt really really progressive for that time. Oh, pretty good movie.
It's pretty good. But is it an A? Maybe? Not? Well?
Speaking of let's right, but before we do that, does
this movie pass the Bechtel tests? It definitely does? It does?

(01:06:39):
Yeah multiple times between Olive and Rhiannon, although they often
talk about George, the fake boy that she didn't but
George is more of an idea that's true, so is
it does it count an idea? Olive and Marianne talk,
although they mostly talk about how God he pronouns is

(01:07:04):
judging Olive and then like Olive and her mom talk,
but they often talk about Brandon. So a lot of
the conversations are about boys and men, but they're definitely
exchanges that pass yeah yeah between multiple characters. So does
it get an A? Or five nipples on our nipple
scale zero to five nipples based on this representation of

(01:07:26):
women um, I give it like a it's a half.
It's like in the middle, it's like really especially two
and a half, it's it's trying. It's two thousand and ten.
You know, we've only barely started trying to progress as
a society in this year, so it's doing it's best,

(01:07:48):
and it's best is not very good by our standard.
And a good point about all the other women in
the movie. You know, it's like a stone maybe pretty good,
everyone pretty villainized. Are are made to see him and
even in some ways, even in the ways that are
high school realistic, they're just it just doesn't the writing
doesn't go quite fair depth given to it. It is

(01:08:09):
all even if it's like realistic, it's still not really
realistic because there's no depth or backstory or motivation. It's
all just like they come off mean a very mean
and very petty super official And I think that the
male characters are kind of given a free past the
especially like Evan that kind of like he manipulated her,

(01:08:32):
and I mean that kind of reminded me of Emma
Stone's storyline in Super Bad, except in this one she
loses where you know, like the Jonah Health character is
like you never have a Kushia me, I'm a loser
and then she's like but in super Bad, it's actually
a little bit better because she's like, no, I don't
like you because you are fucking rude, and he's oh,

(01:08:53):
but then they still end up together ish or something,
but forget but at least he doesn't, you know. It
was like he doesn't get what he wants. In the
same scene, I don't know, literally two sentences after threatening her,
right right, and then she's like, oh, I guess I
feel bad for you, right right. Yeah. So I think
that that the boys trying to coerce all of our
kind of made to be more jokey than being examined

(01:09:16):
for being extremely fucking entitled. Yeah. Yes, I'll give it
a two and a half because I think the intention
of the movie is to expose like women are punished
for being sexually active, but it just didn't really go
all the way. Um, so two and a half nipples,
and I will give one to Amanda Binds, not her

(01:09:39):
character but her as a person, actually her her character
and she's the man gets one of my nipples. Um,
I'm gonna just go ahead and give Stanley Tucci another one.
Of my nipples and then I'll give my half nipple.
I'll give it to that poor little brother who, just
like Dame. You don't even remember what's his name? Justice

(01:10:04):
for a little brother, Chip. I guess his name was Chip.
I don't remember here in Chip, but that was that
was his name. Uh yeah, I'm gonna go to a
half as well. I think that this movie has its
heart in the right place. I would wager that it's
at least attempting to do more than most movies in
We're attempting. I think that it's it's always good to

(01:10:27):
have a female lead comedy. It's not super common, and
this movie falls heavier on the comedy side than the
romance side, which is nice. Um, it's cool that. I mean,
this movie almost definitely made way for more movies like
it because it was super successful. It was like eight
million dollar budget, seventy five million dollar box office, so

(01:10:49):
you know, I it has its place in time. There's
a lot there's I would say about half of it
doesn't really sit that well. But it's been almost ten
years since this movie came out. For its time, I
think it was a valiant effort and we we we
soldier on to better more fun movies for everyone involved.

(01:11:10):
We got to do Blockers sometimes soon we gotta do anyway,
let's just say about that movie. I've watched Blockers. I
think I've only seen it on planes, but I've seen
it too, right, yeah, and was like, oh, this will
be fun. It's like perfect plane movie. It's wild. It
was sometimes when I'm like, oh this movie was made

(01:11:31):
for planes, I'm not sure. Um, yeah we'll get but yeah,
i'll do. I'll do two and a half and I'll
give I'm gonna give two to Emma Stone this movie,
Like what Rewatching it reminded me like why people love
her so much? Like she's she's fun to watch, She's
very funny. I think that like a lesser actress in

(01:11:51):
this part would have been like, you know, cringeing, and
it would have you know, So give two to Emma
and then yeah, I'll give the other half to Ali Michalca.
Sure glad to see she's thriving ten years ago. I
don't know she's doing fun. Oh gosh, Well, I want
to be different. But I feel like two and a
half is like pretty perfect for this because it is

(01:12:14):
trying really hard. I feel like it does a good
job with like both like toxic masculinity and slut shaming
female like all of that it does, it's it's hinting
at it. So I was pleased with that. And I
remember when I watched it when I was younger, feeling,
particularly with Emma Stone, like I was a very big,
you know, reputed slut in high school too, and so

(01:12:36):
I really related to that and related to the fact that, like,
I don't know, it just it made me feel good
better about myself, I think when it first came out.
So yeah, so two and a half, I feel like
it's pretty good. Um, I definitely want to give one
to Patricia Clarkson because I feel like, even though she
does end up kind of slut shamy at the end, overall,

(01:12:58):
it was nice to see a mother care actor who
wasn't like forcing like puritanical standards on a daughter, which
I feel like is really often portrayed in movies, especially
back then, and so it was kind of nice to
have a mom who, like, although she didn't fully get there, um,
she was trying to get there and you know, and
you know she's like, oh, you can have a boy

(01:13:18):
in your room and you know he's gay. But at least,
you know, I don't know. Um, I feel like there
was there was something there, and then you know, I
want to give one to Emma Stone's lingerie because I
think that was a really that was really I really thought,
like the first moment when she walked to school in
a corset, I was like, Oh, there's gonna be a
whole dress code thing about this, right, um and uh,

(01:13:42):
And I thought it was cool how she just kind
of like owned wearing lingerie to high school and totally
rocked that. Um so, I think that deserves a nipple
to hell. Yeah, I liked that they during the like
montage where she's like re vamping her wardrobe. You see
the bag, it's like, oh high launder ray, Like sure,
it sounds like a business day, Like how did she

(01:14:05):
afford all this nice lunch? Yea that everyone is as
a wealthy person. I guess no team comedy that's true
for oh Hi. I mean I guess she's maybe on
the like she's in rich Oh Hi, it would appear.
There's I mean so many teams. I'm like, please more
team comedies that don't take place in like upper class,

(01:14:26):
because most team comedies don't work just the way that
they're written unless it's taking place in an upper class setting,
because uh, you know, Shenanigans are expensive. I don't know,
like really what, but but it is like from I
mean even I had the same criticism for a book smart.
It is just like every like this movie doesn't work

(01:14:47):
if people don't have infinite privilege to fall back on.
So you know, well someday, someday, but that's easy. A
gang that there it is. They did their best and
we respect it. ASA. Thank you so much for being here,
for having me. This is really fun. Tell us, tell
us about your book. Yeah, my book. It's a memoir.

(01:15:07):
It's funny, it's great. Thank you. Um. I'm I'm scared
for it to come out, but I'm also really excited.
I hope it. Like you know, I talk a lot
about being a slit in high school in it, so
it's very relevant, too easy. I talked a lot about
the rumors going around that somewhere true, somewhere it's so true. Um,
and then kind of just like always being labeled the

(01:15:29):
slut and how that kind of like made me realize,
you know, Okay, I kinda want to go into sex
work and seeing kind of what happens next? So yeah, excellent,
Please by the book watch cam on Netflix if you
haven't already. It is great. And where can people follow
you on the social media's Yes, I'm at Issa is

(01:15:50):
wrong awesome self blaming. I was wrong about everything always
all the time. I have no idea what I'm doing,
stumbling a lot. Thank you so much, thank you, thank
you so much for coming. So glad we've finally got
to do the movie we did? Yeah, are you happy? Geez?

(01:16:12):
It was fun. I don't know why we avoided it
for You can follow us online at Beckdel Cast on
almost all of the platforms and Twitter, Facebook, if you're
still on that website, Instagram, the whole bit. You can
pledge to our patreon ak Matreon, it's five dollars a
month to get to to bonus episodes every month to

(01:16:33):
patreon dot com slash Bechtel cast uh, and then if
you want some merch, you can go to t public
dot com slash v Bechdel Cast. And I think that
that's all our pluggies. How do we Oh god, it
was hard to open, and now how do we should
have practiced? I know we really should have done something
like a little coordinated number. We should have closed. So

(01:16:56):
what is the song that she sings at the end?
They must have How about this? I got a pocket,
got a pocket for ascension. I know there was Yeah, classic.
I gotta love that. I know there's a classic, sure
for sure. Okay, bye bye,