Eight Crazy Nights with Alex Danton-Klein

 This week, Caitlin, Jamie, and special guest Alex Danton-Klein spend one wild episode discussing Eight Crazy Nights.

Follow Alex at @zinniasocialistsupplyco on Instagram! 

 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bechdecast, the questions asked if movies have women
and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zeph and Bast
start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
How is it?

Speaker 3 (00:16):
It's like it's like Hi, I'm Jamie, him Jamie, and
then like hi, I'm Ji, Like how do you There's
so many scenes that are like three different out of
Sandler voices, and.

Speaker 4 (00:29):
They're all annoying their way.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
Well, yes comes with the territory, Yes, indeed, and meanwhile
bringing New Hampshire into like, leave New England out of this,
Leave New England. I have so many thoughts I leave
New England.

Speaker 4 (00:41):
Out of this. I was.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
I was mad they called it Dukesbury. I think that
they were I Alex, let me know what you think. Sorry,
we're just gonna the episode started. They're like I thought
they were like making a weird reference to Tuksbury, which
is not in New Hampshire. My dad used to work
at a mental hospital in Tooks, so I was like,
you leave ticks Burry out of it.

Speaker 4 (01:02):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:03):
I actually spent a long time googling what potential town
this could be in New Hampshire, because I was like, so,
I'm obviously we're skipping. We'll tup back to the introductions later.
I am a Jewish person. I grew up in New
York City, which obviously has a very large portion of
Jews are there, like many many people are Jewish there,
and if you're not Jewish, you obviously.

Speaker 6 (01:24):
Know many Jews. So it's just like infused in the
culture of New York.

Speaker 5 (01:28):
I'm a fourth or fourth generation Brooklyn Night so hardcore
like Brooklyn Jewish history here. And then I moved to
New England around two thousand and eight, so I have the.

Speaker 6 (01:40):
Jewish experience in New York.

Speaker 5 (01:42):
And then also this like cultural whiplash of being in
New England and being Jewish in New England, which is
really different than being Jewish in New York. So the
whole time watching this movie, I spent a lot of
time googling life but what town could this be?

Speaker 7 (01:53):
Though?

Speaker 5 (01:53):
Like there aren't enough Jewish, like what town in New Hampshire?
Like it's I have a whole list of notes, It's
just not true.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
Like like I thought it was such a weird place
to set it. Yeah, I mean, and they made it
sound like there's a very small Jewish population in this town.
But I'm like, why are we setting it there, because
then Hanaka doesn't really happen, Like it's just confusing.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yes, it's confusing, and that is the whole movie what
we're talking about today, which is eight Crazy Nights. Hello,
and welcome to the Bechdel Cast. It's us here, we are,
and the voice you heard is that of our guest.
She is a Jewish leftist fiber artist. She works in
fundraising and is the tech director of a middle school

(02:36):
theater program. It's Alex Stanton Klein. Hello and welcome.

Speaker 6 (02:40):
Hi. I'm so glad to be here.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Tell us more about your fiber artistry to start, and
then we'll get back into dumping on Crazy Nights.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
And also just like, if you don't know what the
Bechdel Test is or what this show is, just look
it up. It's fine, we've been on for eight years.
Like do your homework.

Speaker 6 (02:58):
Yeah, very happy to be here.

Speaker 5 (03:01):
I do a lot of embroidery and textile art and
like I said, I'm in New England. I sell in
New England markets. You can find me on Instagram at
Zinia Socialist Supply company just co ginnya socialist supply co
on Instagram. Also in addition to making leftist art and
make an embarrassing amount of musical theater themed stickers and

(03:23):
postcards and so on. So if you need something that
is a very very specific reference to just one line
in Rent, I'm your girl.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
Love that. I love that.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
We still haven't we actually still have not covered Chris
Columbus's Rent two thousand and five, if you like to return,
as someone would ay, I still like I because I
didn't see the show before that. I'm like, that movie
is good, and then you watch it You're like, no,
it's not. But even as I'm watching it like it's perfect,
it's great.

Speaker 5 (03:53):
No, I have the deepest amount of love and hate
for that movie. Like it's like they're both there in
my soul. And I'd be happy to talk more about it.
And you know that we have a whole group of
friends in a little chat that would be delighted to
join in us as well.

Speaker 4 (04:07):
So thrilling too.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
I remember that I for a listener context, Alex is
a dear friend of mine, and the night before I
moved to La so like almost ten years ago, Jake
was driving me from I forgot something, I'd like lost something,
Jake being her husband or her husband refer to him

(04:31):
as nothing else. But Jake and I were driving somewhere
and we were listening to the Rent movie soundtrack, like
just screaming and reaching the conclusion that maybe this is
not very good and it was just the best.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Wait, is Jake not who you saw I Frankenstein with?

Speaker 3 (04:52):
Yes, Jake actually has deep Buchdel castlere like Jake and
I saw I Frankenstein, I would say easily three times.
And this was before the AMC stubs days, so we
were paying twenty bucks a pop, which we were really
heavily investing in the I Frankenstein lore universe. Always have,
always will, same with the Master of Disguise.

Speaker 6 (05:15):
Yeah, not to keep bringing like mad into the Backdel
cast because.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Wow, but sorry, we're talking about We're talking about Jake,
We're talking about Frankenstein.

Speaker 5 (05:23):
But we're gonna talking about Grant too, because Jamie and
Jake forced me and Grant to watch I Frankenstide like
all of us, very late at night one night pretty
recently actually, like within the past six months or so,
and we had to sit down and watch it.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
It was actually pretty violent, because yeah, it was already
like one in the morning, was like, we have to
start watching I Frankenstein and pause and rewind the part
where he's swinging nunchucks at nobody on the top of
a mountain, which is still my favorite part.

Speaker 4 (05:55):
I am a demon Prince.

Speaker 5 (05:57):
Jammie bought our baby a demon prince, Onesie. So before
is going to continue to.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
The next generation, Kitlin, I forgot to tell you I
did order a custom I Frankenstein baby once for.

Speaker 4 (06:10):
Baby kline.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Wow, that's amazing. So okay, sorry your fiver art right slash.
Tell us about your relationship with the movie Eight Crazy Nights.

Speaker 6 (06:24):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (06:24):
So Jamie texted me and said, would you like to
come on beckdelcast and talk a little bit about this movie?
And I said, oh, yeah, I think I've seen it before.
And then it horrifically like played before my eyes in
slow motion as I was like re experiencing this event.
So let me take you back to like two thousand,
let's say five or six, and I'm in college and

(06:48):
it is an unnamed liberal arts college wherein it is
the perfect blending of both the era and then the
type of college I went to where everybody was really
into ironic racism, which, as we all know, is just racist,
but white people get to be like, oh haha, it
was funny when I said it, and that's it.

Speaker 4 (07:06):
What a time.

Speaker 5 (07:07):
It was really lovely, and I was one of smattering
of Jewish people on campus, and I can't remember it
was my roommate or someone who like lived in my door,
my near us, but at the time they were like,
you have to watch this movie.

Speaker 6 (07:19):
It's really funny.

Speaker 5 (07:20):
And I'll say, similarly to the I Frankenstein watch, it
was inflicted upon me, but unlike I Frankenstein, I didn't
laugh at all. And I remember just sitting there letting
them watch me watch this movie. And it was like
the weirdest experience of like a group of non Jews
of boys just like sitting there watching me experience a

(07:42):
movie that they thought was like the epidity of Jewish culture.
I was just like, why, why, why is this a
part of my life? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (07:51):
Unfair, unfair.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
I am curious because this is the second I believe
Hanuka movie we have on the show. Both movies, as
Kaylin and I both have in our notes, ultimately end
up being more about youth basketball than Hanukkah. So I'm curious,
is there Do you have a favorite and it doesn't
have to be a movie, but do you a favorite

(08:14):
piece of Hanukkah media?

Speaker 6 (08:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (08:17):
I mean I think before we talk about that, I
will just say because it would be weird for me.

Speaker 6 (08:22):
I feel like my grandmother would be really mad if
I didn't say.

Speaker 5 (08:24):
This, Like, Hankkah is only it's not one of the
major Jewish holidays, which often surprises people who aren't Jewish,
like there are many other holidays that actually are of
greater significance, and so Hannaka is just it's it's in
the winter time. It has this weird sort of competitive
thing with Christmas sort of.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Which is why people like place so much emphasis on it,
because it's actually just like, well it's Christmas time, but
we'll acknowledge all their holidays that are happening around this
ends up, but ultimately it's just very Christmas centric, right, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (08:58):
I feel like a lot of Hanukka material relates like
exists only in relationship to Christmas. It doesn't have its
own thing, which is just sort of Obviously, we live
in a fairly Christian society, even if we're not legally
yet just pure Christian society.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
Not quite a christ sho fascist regime yet.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
But yeah, just take note of when this is released,
because by the time you listen to it, we may be.

Speaker 8 (09:25):
So.

Speaker 5 (09:25):
All that said, knowing that Hankkah is like a major holiday,
I think there are other Jewish movies that are awesome
and amazing and are about Jewish culture and are really
fun and exciting.

Speaker 6 (09:35):
Crossing Delancey is a delight.

Speaker 5 (09:37):
It's a rom com and this woman gets set up
by like a matchmaker with a man who sells pickles
at a deli, and it's very, very cute, and it's
a woman director too. I think that one's lovely, not
a Hanuka movie, but a very lovely Jewish movie. I
honestly have a really problematic as hell, but I have
a really large soft spot in my heart for.

Speaker 6 (10:00):
Hanka. Oh my god, sorry, pregnancy brain.

Speaker 5 (10:02):
The big like Honega, like the juice ploitation type Honka
movie that came out with Adam.

Speaker 4 (10:07):
Is it the Hebrew Hammer?

Speaker 3 (10:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (10:10):
Yeah, my dad and I watched that all the time.
We love it.

Speaker 5 (10:13):
Yeah, it's problematic as hell. It is supposed to be
like a black exploitation movie. But with Jews, and it's sexist.
I mean, it's like, got terrible problems with it, but
I find.

Speaker 6 (10:22):
It very funny.

Speaker 5 (10:23):
And the idea is that he has to save Hankah
again from some like evil kind of Christian fascist type
played by Andy Dick.

Speaker 4 (10:31):
So yeah, I was like.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
Yeah, this this this cast so Adam Goldberg, Judy Greer,
Andy Dick, Mario Van Peebles, Peter Coyote, I mean of
e t Fame, of et No No, of the Hebrew
Hammer fame.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
Sorry, So yeah, that's a.

Speaker 6 (10:51):
That's a fun one.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (10:53):
I'm not saying it's good. I want to stress it's
not good. It is fun, sure, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
What was the name of the dcom that we covered
a couple of years ago, Jamie, that's also about youth basketball.
It was called Full Court Miracle, right.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
We had fay or Love on for that, And I
think at the time we discussed I mean, I am
not Jewish, and I grew up with such limited exposure
to Jewish culture because, as we've alluded to, I did
not grow up in a community where there were a
lot of Jewish people, and so I think my main
understanding of this holiday specifically would have been an episode

(11:30):
of Rugrats, and honestly.

Speaker 6 (11:33):
That pretty accurate. I would say I grew that.

Speaker 4 (11:36):
I was like, all right, yeah, that.

Speaker 6 (11:37):
Gives you a good working knowledge of the basics of
the holiday.

Speaker 5 (11:41):
What's weird is there's iconography in the movie vaguely that
relate to Hankah, but like, you never see him. I
don't think lighting a manora or doing like none of
the characters are doing Honkkah right, unless I'm misremembering.

Speaker 4 (11:53):
No.

Speaker 8 (11:54):
I also was a little bit confused at like at
the beginning, I'm like, maybe, honestly, I found it very
hard to focus on this movie and I refuse to
watch it twice, so there may be And.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
It's only eighty six minutes long, not even it's like
seventy six minutes long.

Speaker 3 (12:09):
It definitely has like Master of Guy's syndrome, where it's
so short but it feels unbelievably long, grueling. Yeah, but there,
I think at the beginning, Whitey aka also Adam Sandler
says that he is not Jewish, but then by the
end they invite everyone over for Hanukkah, and I was like, wait,

(12:30):
didn't this start with this character stating he like he
doesn't celebrate Hanukkah.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
Right, and then also, but is his sister not extremely
like Jewish coded Yes, in an offensive and stereotypical way. Yes,
but they're not a Jewish family, so you really just
wonder what's happening there.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
So why did they go so far out of their
way to be like, these siblings are not Jewish, but
then by the end they are.

Speaker 4 (12:55):
It was like, I don't know, this movie's a mess.
It's all ye, and.

Speaker 5 (12:58):
I'll say I even at one point when they showed
the exter of Whitey and his sister's house, I've paused
it because you can see I think that there are
Christmas and Hanuka decorations just to add extra confusion, so
like they have a large amount of Christmas decorations and
also some Honica decorations too, Like I saw some blues
white in there.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
Ultimately, this family is considering celebrating Hanukkah, and it's unclear why.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
They just appreciate a whole cultures question.

Speaker 4 (13:28):
Mark, Yeah, there, I mean unproblematic, simply duo.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
So wait, Jamie, what's your history if any with this movie.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
I hadn't seen it, I although I've heard it like
referenced so many times I've heard there's I don't know,
like I wouldn't have seen this, Like I was too
young to see this when it came out, but I
do remember like later on, just like boys doing impressions
of the Whitey character. I do have like probably around
the same like Borat impression era, just like a really

(14:01):
difficult time to be in middle school. But I mean
I guess that there's just so there's always going to
be an annoying, offensive character and middle school boys are
going to do an impression of it ad nauseum.

Speaker 4 (14:11):
So I knew about Whitey weirdly.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
And that is all I knew about this movie. I'd
never seen it before. What about you, Caitlin.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
I did see it for the first time only like
probably two or three years ago. I don't know what
compelled me exactly to like it's time take it upon
myself to watch it, but I was just like shot
up in the middle of the night.

Speaker 4 (14:33):
Yeah, I must do this.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
I mean, we've been talking about potentially covering this movie
on the podcast for years because around this time we
almost always do like a very Christian centric Christmas movie
slate of movies, and we were like, let's diversify the
slate of movies. So because this is one of the
few mainstream, you know, Hollywood movies that centers Hanukkah or

(14:59):
that at least has Honkah as a backdrop, because this
movie is kind of not about Honkah at all, that
I was like, Oh, I should watch this. I've heard
about it. And at the time, because we were well
into doing the Bechdel Cast, I was like, oh, this
is one of the most problematic movies I've ever seen.
It's not funny at all, not a single joke lands.

(15:22):
And I know that comedy is subjective, but this movie is,
I would say, objectively not even remotely funny. So I
was like, gross, But it'll make for a good conversation
when we inevitably cover it. And here we are doing
just that, and I can't wait to really just do

(15:44):
us a slam dunk to use some basketball terminology to
dunk on the movie.

Speaker 4 (15:50):
Wow, incredible.

Speaker 3 (15:52):
And also the animation sucks. Sorry, Like I said, the
like sync between the mouth and the the vocal performances.

Speaker 4 (16:01):
Is never SINGCD.

Speaker 3 (16:03):
And then there is something I kind of like. I
was bothered by it at first, but then I kind
of grew to like it.

Speaker 4 (16:08):
Over time.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
Anytime there's a group like a wide shot of everyone singing,
no one's mouth this movie, I think they like were
not able to.

Speaker 4 (16:15):
Like afford to make everyone sing.

Speaker 3 (16:19):
But it's just like you hear, especially like that big
number towards the end and they pull out, it's like
the whole community center singing and dancing. Everyone's mouth is
totally shut like like it's I found it scary at first,
and then they do it again in the end end
scene at the mall. Still couldn't afford to open the mouths.
Why make it a group scene if that is you know,

(16:41):
it doesn't matter, It doesn't matter.

Speaker 4 (16:43):
It's a perfect movie.

Speaker 6 (16:44):
No, that's.

Speaker 3 (16:48):
No.

Speaker 5 (16:48):
I think that I do at some point want to
talk about the music from it because like some of
us talking are very musical theater kids at our hearts,
and like the music is so bad it's like hurt
my I was like, this isn't how music, Like, like
I understand they're supposed to be funny and the songs
are funny, like I'm not I did not get that part,

(17:08):
but right it just like like to me, I was.

Speaker 6 (17:11):
Like, but this is it.

Speaker 5 (17:12):
Like when you think about an animated movie that has
music or musical or something else that where people sing
like none of the there weren't reasons for them to sing.
He was just like, I guess the musical number will
go here, and then another one will go here, and
like they just don't function well as musical numbers.

Speaker 6 (17:27):
And that was, yeah, honestly very stressful for me.

Speaker 4 (17:30):
Why technical.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
I think it was the song technical foul that broke me.
Oh my gosh, where and it was stuck in my head.
That's why I had to go see Wicked immediately after,
because I was like, I can't go to sleep, but that's.

Speaker 4 (17:42):
A technical foul, like stuck in my head. That song was.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
I mean, none of the songs are really necessary, but
that one just comes out of nowhere. It's so long
and has nothing to do with anything. The best song
in the movie is a decade old song they use
in the credits, the Honka song Like, which is also
clearly why the movie exists, because the line eight crazy
nights appears in the song and it's a classic.

Speaker 4 (18:07):
It's super funny.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
Like Adam Sandler does is not He's not one of
my guys, but I get why people like him. When
I listen to the Hankkah song. I don't get why
people like him. When I watch Eight Crazy.

Speaker 5 (18:20):
Nights, do you know that the big joke among at
least someone of my friends and family about the Hanka
song is just like our whole family would.

Speaker 6 (18:28):
Just go, I mean, Adam, what are you doing? Why
are you just giving people a list of Jews?

Speaker 5 (18:33):
Nobody needs that that secret like, don't make a list
of us, It's not safe. And yeah, I would have
actually kind of enjoyed a movie if it featured eight
Crazy Nights and eat Crazy Night or like sorry, if
the the Hanka song had been like a part of
the story.

Speaker 6 (18:49):
In some way.

Speaker 4 (18:50):
Why not? Really, yeah, why just do that?

Speaker 6 (18:53):
I would have had fun with that. You know, that
would have been a really enjoyable movie.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
Maybe maybe, Well, let's take a quick break and then
we will come back and do the recap of this
seventy six minute long feature film.

Speaker 4 (19:08):
Bear it back and we're back, and we're back.

Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yes, this does have another feature of a movie that
just couldn't make it to feature length, which is that
it also has an incredibly long credit sequence.

Speaker 4 (19:30):
So it looks like it's eighty minutes long, but it
is not.

Speaker 3 (19:33):
It just they play the Hanakah song all the way through,
but it's like a new improvised version, so it's like
six minutes long.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
As soon as you get the title card where it's
like directed bye blah blah blah, I turned it off.
I couldn't listen to another second, so I missed that
the whole credit song, unfortunately, but oh no, it would
darn it missed it. Okay, So here's the recap. We
open on voiceover narration from Rob Schneider. And if that

(20:08):
doesn't tell you everything you need to know right at
the top, I.

Speaker 4 (20:12):
Just also the narrator.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
I know that they're trying to like do like a
holiday movie pastige there, but also anytime the narrator talks,
it just makes it sound like the movie is insecure,
that you don't understand what's happening.

Speaker 4 (20:24):
You're like, I know, I got it.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
I know he's walking around, and then cut to Rob
Schneider doing an offensive accent. Yes, first spoken line of
dialogue is Rob Schneider.

Speaker 5 (20:35):
This movie is so firmly rooted in two thousand and two,
like in particular with the racism, the offensiveness, the weight jokes,
the joke. We'll get to all of that, but like
you when you open, when the movie opens with Rob
Schneider doing something offensive, you're like, it's really two thousand
and two.

Speaker 4 (20:51):
In here, it stinks in here.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
It's wild that this is like this is also this
is the same year as my favorite Adam Sandler performance
in Punch Drunk Love. Oh yeah, and then he just
had to end the year like this, no accounting.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
For it, you know. He he has range from something
that's pretty good to something that's really.

Speaker 4 (21:14):
Fucking terrible, too horrible.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, yeah, okay. So the voiceover is explaining that Christmas
is right around the corner and that tonight is the
first night of Hanukkah, although some people aren't excited about
the holidays, including a man named Davy Stone. This is
the main Adam Sandler character who is designed to look

(21:37):
like Adam Sandler. Yes, very much.

Speaker 3 (21:40):
I will be calling him Adam Sandler. I can't be
bothered to call him daddy.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
So he is a down on his luck guy. He's
at a Chinese restaurant getting drunk. He leaves without paying,
so the cops start chasing him, but not before he
drunkenly makes with his car. For some reason.

Speaker 5 (22:03):
That is a note on my many list of things
I don't like. I just said, do not like him
making out with his car at all? Not a good
joke comment not good bad.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
Is well, you're you're correct, it is not good and
it doesn't even crack the top fifty percentile of bad,
which is which is wild.

Speaker 6 (22:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
So then he starts like snowboarding around town on the
lid of a trash can or something. He's singing a song, Oh.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
My God, and the songs are even the song's titles
are lazy. Davy's song is the first song, and he's like,
I don't like Hanukkah or Christmas. I don't like this
time of year. And you're like, oh, all right, this
thinks I don't like it.

Speaker 4 (22:50):
Yeah, that's the whole song.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
The chorus is I hate love, I hate you, I
hate me, and you're like, cool, go to therapy, sir.

Speaker 3 (22:59):
There's I mean, it's like there, that is a reasonable
starting point. I mean, he's like, he's scrooging around. Okay,
but what is this going to build to? And the
answer is not very much.

Speaker 5 (23:11):
I do want to know in the opening bits, and
this is something that I noticed when I moved to
New England, is that they had this the Ice Santa
and the Ice Manora side by side, and they are
of equal height and of equal importance in this town
that supposedly of Jewish people, right, Yeah, the percentage of

(23:31):
the percentage of the Jewish population in New Hampshire is
around zero point eight percent.

Speaker 6 (23:36):
So I don't think I googled it after living because
it's eight.

Speaker 5 (23:40):
Yeah, it's small, and I think there's like a few
towns that have like concentrations, but it's not like there's
a huge you know, So it doesn't make sense to
Jamie's point earlier to have it set in New Hampshire.

Speaker 6 (23:50):
But also my point is living.

Speaker 5 (23:53):
In New England, it's very rare to see Honeka be
treated with the same level of decorative important as Christmas.
And I just like straight from the beginning, I was like, well,
that doesn't feel right to me. Like the last like
like I right, my husband and I went to a
mall and the whole you walk into the mall and
the whole entryway is all Christmas stuff And then we

(24:15):
walked like down the side to the area that had
actually there was like they were renovating it and it
was ripped off with caution tape and there was like
one small manora of side over there, like that's that's
kind of how we expect honna going to be treated
in places where there are not a lot of Jews, right,
It's not the main focus.

Speaker 6 (24:31):
So it just felt so not accurate.

Speaker 5 (24:34):
Like right from the beginning, I'm like, ad a buddy, like,
what what are you doing? This isn't how this is
not an authentic to me anyway, based on my experience
and how I experienced a hanika.

Speaker 6 (24:45):
In New England or outside of a major metropolis.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
I was very confused at the choice to set it
in New England if they were not going to make
it a point that like Christmas is so dominant in
New England and like have that be sort of like
a plot point or something that's referenced in more than
a couple of passing jokes. But it just feels like
an excuse for the movie to not actually be about Hanakah.

Speaker 4 (25:10):
It's really bizarre. I was like, what is this movie about?

Speaker 6 (25:13):
Is Adam Sandler? Is he from New England? Is that
I'm kind of guessing he's from New York?

Speaker 5 (25:19):
Okay, I just assumed he was, Like, let's just set
it up in New England for the.

Speaker 6 (25:23):
Hell of it.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
Oh, I guess he moved to Manchester when he was
a kid. Okay, Okay, so he did go to high
school in New Hampshire. I guess that explains New Hampshire
at least.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
Right, Yeah, but the like vibe seems very off. As
you said, Alex, in any case, he's snowboarding around, he's
singing about how he hates everybody, and he's just being
cruel and awful to everyone he encounters. And like you said, Jamie, like, sure,
if he's like a gringe type, fine place for a

(25:55):
character to start, assuming he'll have an arc. But they
like went way too far in that direction of just
being so horrible that he is like irredeemable.

Speaker 5 (26:06):
I think I couldn't find myself rooting for him. No,
in anyway I.

Speaker 3 (26:11):
Felt that, especially the second we meet Jennifer, I'm like,
I can't believe she has to end up with this guy.

Speaker 4 (26:16):
This is so unfair to her, like I know this
is the only woman. And also I mean, we'll get
to it, but just the animation style.

Speaker 3 (26:25):
We talked about this a lot in animated movies in general,
but just how like the tropes in how women are animated,
and then the love interest just looks like a hot lady.
You're just like And then any woman who the Adam
Sandler character doesn't want to have sex with is designed
so wildly differently, so like offensive that the lady with three.

Speaker 4 (26:47):
Boobs, I'm like, what are what is? What is that?

Speaker 3 (26:51):
And she comes out of nowhere in nax and I
was like, wait, we haven't met this character before. She
shows up so late in the movie.

Speaker 4 (27:00):
She's like, here's me.

Speaker 9 (27:02):
I was like, what is this?

Speaker 2 (27:03):
She is established early on, but like for what reason?
It's it's so annoying anyway. So he's being awful to everyone,
and then he gets arrested and goes before a judge
who is about to give him a harsh sentence because
he has a history of like just being awful and
disruptive in the community. But then a man named Whitey

(27:25):
Duval who is also voiced by Adam Sandler, is this a.

Speaker 4 (27:29):
Whitey Bulger joke?

Speaker 7 (27:30):
Like?

Speaker 4 (27:31):
What? What?

Speaker 2 (27:33):
I don't I don't know.

Speaker 4 (27:34):
If so, it doesn't make sense.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
It doesn't make sense. He interjects and suggests that Davy
do community service in the form of helping Whitey referee
youth basketball games. That's because that's gonna set him straight.

Speaker 3 (27:52):
That's a that's a hefty dose of white privilege right
at right at the top where it's like, oh, you've
been sentenced to not even community service, you've been sentenced
to a part time job, right like he got a
job out of almost getting a dy Yes.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
And then Davy reluctantly agrees to this after saying a
whole string of very ablest things to Whitey. But he's like, fine,
I'll do it because otherwise he's going to be sentenced
to like ten years in prison. So he's like, I
guess i'll referee youth basketball instead ten.

Speaker 4 (28:30):
Years in prison, or we'll give you a job. I'm like, uh,
huh huh. Justice system makes sense.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
And meanwhile, there's a subplot where Whitey is hoping to
win the All Star patch at the youth league basketball
banquet that's coming up.

Speaker 3 (28:46):
I will say I was I was a little invested
in the patch. I wanted him to get the patch
that makes one of us because I didn't give a shit.

Speaker 4 (28:56):
Now I was rooting for him.

Speaker 5 (28:58):
I think it like Jamie is saying, there's a movie
that appears to like middle school boys, and then they
do the voice, and like, the Whitey voice just made
me like physically tends up because I was like, oh,
it's every boy from my middle school. It just like
as you just that, it just brought it all back,
and I just couldn't.

Speaker 6 (29:16):
I couldn't support Whitey because of that.

Speaker 4 (29:18):
Yeah, I totally understand. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
I mean, I I he's the only character that I mean,
he's just so abused when he's put in the in
the shit statue.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Oh, he is a sympathetic character. Yeah, because you feel
sorry for him, you feel pretty for it. We'll talk
all about it.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
But yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna I'm not like,
why don't you guys like Whitey. I understand, I understand.
I just wanted him to get the patch. I mean,
he gets spoiler or he gets five of them.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah. Okay. So it's the first basketball game that Davy
is meant to be refereeing, but he's not really doing
his job. He then makes another string of extremely fat
phobic remarks to one of the players on one of
the teams, and the game ends and Whitey is upset

(30:10):
about the way Davy is treating people, so he takes
Davy to the mall.

Speaker 3 (30:16):
Maybe that's why I like Whitey. I like going to
the mall because he I find it comforting.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
To the going to the dunkin Donuts in the mall.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
Yeah, I'm doing that too. I'm hitting up the dunks
at the Glendell Gallery. I'm unknown entity there. So maybe
that's why I connect with him.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
I don't know, I understand.

Speaker 4 (30:33):
Yeah, that's a technical file. It's sucking my head again
much anyway.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
So Whitey is teaching Davy a lesson at the mall,
of course, and he's telling Davy he needs to be
more respectful. And there a woman named Jennifer Friedman who
is voiced by Jackie Sandler aka Adam Sandler's his wife.
Although I don't think they were married at the time.

(31:01):
I don't know if this is how they met or what,
but this is pre their marriage, I believe.

Speaker 4 (31:06):
Interesting. Yes, I did not realize that it's true.

Speaker 3 (31:12):
That is baffling that you could fall in love during
the production of this movie.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (31:18):
Yeah, they got married the next.

Speaker 3 (31:20):
Year, So I feel like it's kind of safe to
say that eight Crazy Nights, I mean, something good came
out of it.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
So they brought them together there good for them anyway.
So Jennifer and her son Benjamin are there at the
mall because I believe she works at Dunkin Donuts. She detonomically.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
I looked into it because I Caitlin, as you know,
I love keeping track of product placement. There is so
much of this. What I learned though, is that they
got permission for none of it. None of it, well
none of it, so there's not even a reason for it, Like,
but you've got which because at first, when Whitey was
showing Adam Sandler every store at the mall, first reason,

(32:00):
I was like, oh, this must have been how they
funded the movie, right with this product life. It turns
out they were just doing that for no reason at all.
Sharper Image, Body Shop, GNC, Tyrax, Spencer's Sabarro, Dunks Sees Candy,
Panda Express, Victoria's Secret Italian Eatery, Hot Dog Gonna Stick,
and seven to eleven. They got no money to do that.
They just they were just like, here's this.

Speaker 4 (32:21):
Do you like this?

Speaker 6 (32:22):
It's just for the love of them all. Yeah, they
just had to. I mean, I like, how did you feel,
how did you.

Speaker 5 (32:29):
Feel about the Dunks situation? Because I know your feelings
on Dunks.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
But like representation matters, like it's I I liked that
there was a Dunks in New Hampshire.

Speaker 4 (32:41):
That makes sense to me.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
And I like Jennifer all one thing I know about her.
I'm I'm rooting for Jennifer to somehow bust through the
fourth wall.

Speaker 4 (32:53):
And be in a different movie. But I do.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
I like a girl who works at Dunkin Donuts. Yeah,
hell yeah, working class hero, exactly.

Speaker 4 (33:03):
Exact single mother.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
But then she ends Honestly, she ends this movie worse
off than when she started because now she has like
a second.

Speaker 4 (33:13):
Son, not even a boyfriend.

Speaker 3 (33:15):
She's a single mother to a man child, ten year
old and a thirty three year old.

Speaker 4 (33:20):
It's just it's unpleasant. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
In any case, Jennifer and her son are there and
they bring donuts to Whitey. This is something she does regularly,
and Davy is like, you know, noticing her and sexually
harassing her and insulting her son. But then he realizes
that he knows her because they went to school together

(33:45):
and they used to be friends. But he's been an
asshole for the past twenty years and so he probably
doesn't have a chance with her. Just kidding. Jennifer is
Davy's love.

Speaker 3 (33:56):
Interest I for some reason, I mean not that I mean,
I like, there's never a point in the movie where
I'm on Davy's side, but it like make me extra
angry that he didn't even recognize her. I was like,
she like of all of the like he didn't even
remember who she was his best friend from childhood.

Speaker 4 (34:16):
Like that's it makes no sense.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
They dated, like they were like tween boyfriend girlfriend, you
had a little kiss in the flashback.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
You would recognize that person. It doesn't matter how different
they look, you would recognize them.

Speaker 5 (34:30):
That's like he's just too busy bullying her son, like
he loves bullying children.

Speaker 3 (34:36):
That I found that like so wildly off putting, Like
on top of everything else. I was like if I
if my childhood sweetheart didn't recognize me, I would be
like fuck this guy, Like I know.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Also worth noting that Jennifer and her son are seem
to be the only other two Jewish characters besides Davy
in the story, because Benjamin is describing the Hanuka give
he has received so far, so it's established that Jennifer
is also Jewish. So then Whitey takes Davy home, but

(35:11):
gets stuck in the snow outside Davy's house and Davy
doesn't care or do anything to help, So Whitey's just
like out there for hours until he gets unstuck with
the help of some plot deer that keep showing up.

Speaker 6 (35:26):
The deer also played by Adam Sandler.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
Yes, yeah, so when they.

Speaker 6 (35:30):
Go that's important.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
That's Adam Taylor's voice.

Speaker 4 (35:34):
Another fun fact.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
From Scholgarly Journal Wikipedia is that in the test screenings
of this, Whitey's voice was originally even more high pitched
and they brought it down, and that Sandler was begged
to remove some of the deer shitting jokes, but he

(35:56):
was like, that's a bridge too far.

Speaker 4 (35:59):
I will not.

Speaker 3 (36:01):
I'm keeping them, all of them, all of them, all,
forty of them. I think though you honestly see deer
shitting on screen more than you hear Jennifer speak.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
I think that's accurate.

Speaker 4 (36:13):
Anyways, this movie wrong.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
So in Davy's house, he is drinking and also looking
at a picture of his parents, who are implied to
have died. Then Whitey finally gets home and we meet
his sister, Eleanor, who he lives with. Eleanor is also
voiced by Adam Sandler and we'll talk more about Eleanor.

(36:44):
But then we get voiceover narration that says that Whitey
tends to do odd jobs around town to make ends meet.
The next day we see him doing this type of work,
which includes cleaning out some port of Davy is there
puking in one of the porta potties, and he comes

(37:05):
out and then he shoves Whitey into one of the
stalls and pushes it down a hill. So now sewage
gets all over Whitey.

Speaker 4 (37:14):
And that's I think we can all agree. That's a
technical owl.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
That's a technical that's a technical fowl. That's comedy, baby,
you know. That's does hilarious jokes and we love it.
And then Davy sprays him with a hose which freezes
because it's winter in New Hampshire. And then the deer
help Whitey again by licking the shit ice off of him,
and we're just like, why is this movie like this.

Speaker 4 (37:39):
It's also implied that he gets like sort of a blowhop.
Dear o sorrow.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
I'm sorry, that's referenced in a one off joke Crazy.

Speaker 4 (37:47):
Day licked my balls or whatever.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
This is.

Speaker 4 (37:51):
This is a movie for ten year old boys.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
That night, Davy Whitey and Benjamin Jenniferson are at the
basketball courts where a few adult men are playing pickup,
and Davy's like, I could beat all you guys at basketball.

Speaker 4 (38:12):
Oh this pissed me off. This pissed me off.

Speaker 3 (38:15):
When it's implied that he does nothing but drink beer
and then he's shirtless and like ripped, I was like,
this is this is ego gone wild? This character canonically
and this is not a judgment, but it just felt
like Adam Sandler being like, oh my cartoon avatar has

(38:35):
to be hot ripped. Like yeah, it just it felt
like it was an email.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
Also, I formed a theory in this scene where I
was like, oh, I wonder if the reason this is
animated is because Adam Sandler wants to be portrayed as
being way better at basketball than he normally is. But
then I saw some clips of him playing basketball. I
he seems all right. I guess he could probably have
done it live.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
ASHI played those at those like famous oh my gosh,
what am I thinking? Those famous Gary Shandling basketball games.
He was like a common attender. I know that he
really likes basketball. I think that this is only animated
because he was trying to which again like doesn't worry.

Speaker 4 (39:17):
It was trying to.

Speaker 3 (39:18):
Like visually parody old animated Christmas Specials. But I don't
know where the thirty four million dollars went here because the.

Speaker 4 (39:30):
Mouths don't even move. It's just I don't know.

Speaker 5 (39:34):
And did it look to you like the old Christmas
Specials animated example, Yeah, I didn't get that feel like
the the the animation style didn't feel like it was
connected to a specific era and was like in conversation
with that era if you welcome, right.

Speaker 3 (39:51):
I didn't feel like it was like referencing anything in particular,
which I guess I find somewhat explained by the fact
that like ten animation studios ended up working on this,
so I don't know like what was going on behind
the scenes, but like.

Speaker 4 (40:04):
There's no there's no cohesive creative vision going on here.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
Yeah. It kind of reminds me of Sausage Party, which
also had a lot of like animation stuff going on, and.

Speaker 3 (40:17):
I was like they were like breaking union, like they
were crossing picket lines to do Sausage Party.

Speaker 4 (40:24):
It's awesome, Yeah, worth it?

Speaker 2 (40:26):
Oh gosh, Okay, So Davy is like I can beat
all you guys a basketball. So he plays two on
two first with Whitey, who gets immediately injured, and it's
supposed to be a hilarious.

Speaker 4 (40:38):
Joke technical foul.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
It was a technical foul. Then Davey plays with Benjamin
as his teammate and they win. We'll talk more about
that in the discussion, but I'll just breeze right past
all the fat phobia inherent in this scene. But Jennifer
then comes by to pick Benjamin up up and she
sees Davy and her son playing together, and she's like hmm.

(41:04):
But then she's also like mmmmm, yeah, because she hates Davy,
but also maybe she's starting to like him.

Speaker 3 (41:12):
I wouldn't want my kid around Davy, to be perfectly honest,
he's a bad guy, yes, And then anytime she's like, hey,
get away from my kid. You're a bad guy, he's like,
what do you mean by that?

Speaker 5 (41:25):
He spent the beginning of the movie bullying other children
and then also bullied.

Speaker 10 (41:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (41:32):
Right, Like it's very reasonable for her to be like,
based on my past experiences with you, I don't think
that you'll treat my son well, you know, Like that
seems like a very normal Jennifer, that's very normal.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
Right, She's got to do it, She's got to do
And meanwhile, like Adam Saylor is standing next to an
unconscious old man and is like.

Speaker 4 (41:48):
What is wrong with me? And it's like, dude. Anyways.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
Then there's another song where Davy and Jennifer reminisced about
their youth. There's a whole flashback sequence. They used to
be friends and like young lovers as tweens, and but
obviously everything has changed. Then Davy comes home to discover
that the men that he had just beaten at basketball

(42:16):
are lighting his house on fire. So now his home
is gone, and Whitey offers Davy to let him stay
with him and his sister Eleanor.

Speaker 3 (42:27):
Things get very dark in the back half of this movie.
The most and this is like not the most, the
most depressing thing is yet to come, which I was
truly shocked by.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah, So then Davey comes to stay with them for
a while, and this is where we get the it's a.

Speaker 4 (42:43):
Technical foul motivated by anything. No, it's just like farting.

Speaker 3 (42:48):
Yet that that's a technical foul, Like it's just this
in my mind, technical foul is half the run time
of this movie, it.

Speaker 4 (42:57):
Just felt like it would not stop.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
It goes on so long. Yeah, it's basically just Whitey
explaining the rules that Davey has to follow because he's
so disrespectful. And it seems to actually kind of work,
because the next time we see Davy, he is behaving
a little bit more respectfully. He seems to be like
kinder and more sensitive.

Speaker 4 (43:22):
Kind of like that's what worked on him. The song
is technically.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
Right, it doesn't make sense. But then sometime passes and
I think it is now the eighth day of Hanukkah,
and now you're realizing, oh, this movie is called Eight
Crazy Nights. You have an expectation that it's going to
be about eight crazy nights, and yet most of it
happens off screen, and none of the nights are actually
crazy quote unquote.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
And so a couple of like vaguely eventful days. But
because this, like because the main character doesn't celebrate Hanukkah
anymore for a reason, where about to learn? And because
it doesn't seem like anyone except Jennifer and Benjamin celebrate Hanukkah,
and we never see them celebrate Hannakah because we don't

(44:09):
care about them. The fact that it's Hanakkah is very
easy to forget because you only see Christmas decorations and
no one is celebrating Hankah.

Speaker 5 (44:19):
So I saw because I went deep down a rabbit
hole reading like reviews from that time, and then I
ended up on like a Reddit talking about this movie,
and somebody from many years ago wrote in that this
was their favorite movie to watch during the Christmas season
and it just really exemplified Christmas.

Speaker 6 (44:38):
For them, which I thought was just a really great point. Like,
it doesn't it's not a Hanukkah movie. I don't know
what to say. It's not.

Speaker 5 (44:46):
There's no Ronica's not present. It's not a character in
the movie. It's not it's just not there.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
It's a whole movie about why this one character no
longer celebrates Hanukkah due to brutal childhood trauma, which is
a story, but not really a Hanakah story.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
Right, Okay, So we are now at the eighth day
of Hanukkah. Davy is hanging out with Whitey and Eleanor
and white He tells the story of how Davy learned
that his parents had been killed in a car accident
when he was a kid. Like twenty years prior, and
this grief and traumatic loss is what has made Davy

(45:33):
so horrible to everyone around him.

Speaker 3 (45:36):
I was not prepared for something that heavy that the
movie is, like, you know, the second you learn that
his parents died in this horrible way, you're like, well,
this movie isn't equipped to have this conversation remotely.

Speaker 4 (45:48):
Why even try?

Speaker 3 (45:49):
Oh but yeah, I was like, wow, it's a dark
turn at the very end.

Speaker 5 (45:53):
Yeah, I think they put it in. I mean it
felt to me very strongly like they put it in
there just to be like and that, uh, that excuses
every single thing he's ever.

Speaker 6 (46:02):
Done so far. Right, You're right, that's the solution.

Speaker 5 (46:05):
And it's just you know, I used to teach it
at preschool and we used I mean we used to
say a.

Speaker 6 (46:11):
Lot of like that may explain the behavior, but it.

Speaker 5 (46:14):
Does not excuse it. And I feel like that phrase
works really well here for Davy, Like that might give
some explanation for why he's he acts like an asshole,
but like, ultimately it's on him to still be a
good person in the world, right, Like, we still participate,
we live in a society, Davy, Like, come on, get
it together. You can't just put people import of bodies
and throw them off a cliff, like, we don't do that.

Speaker 4 (46:35):
It won't bring your parents back. Davy, to throw an
old man off a cliff.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
Well, that's the lesson he learns by the end.

Speaker 4 (46:43):
I guess that's what he learns by the end.

Speaker 3 (46:45):
I shouldn't have thrown that old man off of a cliff. Okay, girlfriend, please, son, please,
I learned to my lesson.

Speaker 4 (46:54):
Where's my reward?

Speaker 2 (46:55):
Where's my reward in the form of a human woman
who I now get to claim as my property anyway? Okay.
The reminder of this story about the loss of his
parents sets Davy off. He lashes out at Whitey and
Eleanor and he storms off. He gets drunk again and
then breaks into the mall because ninety percent of this

(47:16):
movie either takes place at the mall or at a
youth basketball game. And he goes to the mall and
he's there to try to talk to Jennifer at Dunkin Donuts,
but it's like very clearly after hours and no one
is there, and he just like breaks in and he's
belligerently screaming into the void until all of the stores

(47:37):
in the Mall come to life, question.

Speaker 7 (47:40):
Mark really interesting, you know, And then they sing to
Davy and they tell him to cry and to let
it all out because he has never dealt with his
grief over the loss of his parents in a way
that is like healthy or effective or anything like that,
and he's really didn't to cry.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
Wouldn't it be amazing if that message came from a
character we've met before and not.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
Some weird like foot Locker animated like hallucination or something like.

Speaker 3 (48:13):
I know we could talk about this in the discussion too,
but like you can't even get away from the misogyny
in the mall.

Speaker 4 (48:19):
Like it's Tyra Banks as an.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
Empty dress which from Victoria's Secret that still gets sexually
harassed by a jar of vitamins or like protein powder
oh from Chance, Yeah yeah, Tyra Banks as an empty
dress that is still getting hit on really sums up
the movie's views on women to me.

Speaker 5 (48:40):
And I love again that you were saying that he didn't.
It wasn't like he was sponsored by this movie. He
was just like what if corporate? What if like the
embodiment of corporations told me how to have feelings?

Speaker 3 (48:50):
It's so good that, like I became all the more
confused by this movie when it when I found out
that he was like sort of doing something like illegal
by having done that, because you're supposed to get the
consent of but it's really weird.

Speaker 4 (49:07):
I don't know. But yeah, they're like, well, okay, we've
introduced five thousand characters for some reason, but at the
emotional peak of the movie, let's have none of them
there and it'll just be logos from the mall.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
Yeah. Awesome, good storytelling.

Speaker 4 (49:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Anyway, so they're telling him to let it all out
and to open up about his feelings, and he's reluctant
to do so, but then he opens the Hanaka card
that his parents wrote for him and that he received
the night that they died, and he finally cries. And
then some cops come into the mall because he's broken in,

(49:43):
and he's like, you know, trespassing, and they're about to
arrest him, but Davy escapes and he gets on a
bus to New York City. Ever heard of it? But
then he has a change of heart and heads to
the youth league basketball banquet, the one where Whitey hopes
to win the All Star patch.

Speaker 3 (50:04):
You're like, oh, right, that plotline, still rooting for him, and.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
He does this because Davy wants to apologize to Whitey
for his behavior. And then we cut to the banquet.
Whitey does not win the patch, so he is devastated.
It goes to sub guy voiced by John Lovetz. I think, yeah, sure,
So Whitey and Eleanor leave because Whitey is so upset

(50:34):
that he didn't win. And then Davey comes into the
banquet and the cops are right behind him and they
arrest Davy, but before they take him away, he makes
this impassioned speech via song about how Whitey should have
won the patch because he does so much for the
community and no one appreciates him. But Whitey cares about people,

(50:58):
and Davey regrets it's being so cruel to him. And
this is where I just like basically zoned out, and
I didn't write the rest of the recap because I
was just like my brain turned to mush. But basically
I think what happens. So everyone goes back to the
mall and.

Speaker 4 (51:16):
But their mouths are they're lockdobs.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
Okay, First, first, it's just Whitey and Eleanor at the mall,
and Whitey is crying because everyone in town thinks he's
a joke and I didn't vote for him for the patch.
But then Davy and the whole rest of the town
show up, and the mayor is like, here, Whitey, here's
the patch after all. And then everyone who had previously

(51:42):
won the patch from the past thirty five years also
are like, yeah, Whitey, here's my patch because you're the
best guy in town. And then there's like a moment
where Davy and Jennifer like kind of reconnect, and that's
the end of the movie. Yay, So let's take another

(52:03):
quick break and we'll come back to.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
Discuss, and we're back. My first, I'd like to open
the conversation by saying, why isn't David Spade in this movie?

Speaker 4 (52:23):
Were they fighting?

Speaker 2 (52:25):
Wow?

Speaker 4 (52:26):
I feel like he's.

Speaker 3 (52:27):
The one, you know, Sandler verse guy who who's not
popping up. True, that's all the thoughts I have in
the movie.

Speaker 4 (52:34):
Everyone else, take it away, Yeah, take it away. Episode.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
I guess the context for this movie. I couldn't find
a whole lot on the development of it. But the title,
as we've referenced, is taken from the line of the
Honkkah song that Adam Sandler wrote and performed and so
that's they were like, Hey, there's a line in the
song it says eight crazy nights if that was a
movie where most of the nights take place off screen

(53:03):
and the ones we do see are pretty tame.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
I mean, they've they've built SNL spin off movies on less,
so that's not even disqualifying.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Yeah, necessarily right, but uh, it just like is a
bummer that one of the few American movies that centers
a Jewish holiday is like also one of the worst
movies ever made.

Speaker 3 (53:26):
And also not about the holiday that it's advertising that
it's about, right, Yeah, Alex, Alex, what was it like
for you to, uh to revisit this this gem?

Speaker 5 (53:39):
Well, well so again, I think I said to Caitlin
before we started, it is really something to watch a
purported comedy just in complete silence, Like Jake and I
were sitting I were sitting there.

Speaker 6 (53:51):
We just sat there like the whole time.

Speaker 5 (53:54):
Like, I don't think either of us laughed at anything
pertaining to the movie. I think during the corporate day scene,
I might have just blacked out, Like I almost don't
remember it at all because I was just like, what
is happening here? Yeah, utterly bizarre.

Speaker 6 (54:10):
I you know, the message of Honicah is really it's you.

Speaker 5 (54:13):
Know about the I mean every I don't want to
speak for every disperson, but I feel like there are
a lot of different ways that you can interpret it
and talk about it, and none of them were present
in this movie.

Speaker 6 (54:25):
I don't even think we ever saw a minora being
lit at all.

Speaker 4 (54:29):
I don't think so.

Speaker 6 (54:30):
And again, as you said, it wasn't eight crazy nights.

Speaker 5 (54:33):
It was eight mostly during the days, and nothing to
do with Hankah really, and we're in New Hampshire.

Speaker 3 (54:40):
Yeah, yeah, it just felt I mean like I feel
like because yeah, I was also had a hard time
finding any sort of meaningful background on this. But given
the number of like credited writers and credited animation companies.

Speaker 4 (54:55):
I feel like it's it's safe to say that.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
Maybe this was coherent at one point being generous, but
it definitely did not like end that way.

Speaker 4 (55:08):
I don't know why.

Speaker 3 (55:09):
It seems like Adam Sandler was really you know, like, no,
we will not like he had a lot of creative
control to the point where he could be like, you
cannot take out the deer shitting scenes, so like, I
don't know, I don't know what to make of this.
It's like it's so bad and like you were saying earlier, Alex,
like is just sort of like this charcutory board of

(55:32):
like offensive early two thousands jokes where we have not
one but two characters that are strictly there to be
fat shamed, one child, one adult, incredible variety. The callback
with we didn't I don't think this came up in
the recap because it has no bearing on the.

Speaker 4 (55:50):
Plot, But there's a child who.

Speaker 3 (55:54):
Just like Adam Sandler's fat shaming, who is crying, and
I feel like that plays into bullying and also plays
into like tropes around bad people being really sensitive I guess,
and like overly emotional. And then we cut to like
a joke of like he Adam Sandler's like, kid, you

(56:15):
gotta get a bra, like just middle school bullying as a.

Speaker 4 (56:20):
Thirty three year old character.

Speaker 3 (56:22):
Yeah, and then when we go to Victoria's secret apparently
against Victoria's secrets, Will not that that's a great company,
but it's just so weird that he didn't ask. But
then we see like that kid trying on. It's a
very like incoherent joke.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
Yeah, not only are the jokes incredibly problematic and reductive
and punching down to marginalize people. They often don't make
sense and are very sad.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
And then it never comes back, which is not like,
oh I wish there was a third beat of that joke,
but like it's still You're like, why is why is
any of it here?

Speaker 4 (56:58):
I don't know right.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
Similarly, the adult who is relentlessly fat shamed is shown
on screen. The brief moment that he's on screen, he's
depicted as being like very uncoordinated and clueless, and then
the losing players of the two on two game have
to eat his jockstrap because that is like the worst

(57:19):
punishment conceivable, You have to eat a fat person's undergarment.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
Like, but it's also like that should be true if
anyone's undergarded.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
That shouldn't for.

Speaker 3 (57:30):
The punishment for anybody, Like body type should not be
a factor in why you wouldn't want to do that.

Speaker 4 (57:36):
They're like, well, if it was.

Speaker 3 (57:37):
If it was like a guy, I would need to
cuss jockstrap if it was his, if he had a
different body type.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
Well that's the joke. It's just like it's especially gross
because it belongs to a fat person. So it's just
like nonsensical jokes like that. There's, as we referenced already,
the anti Asian racism in a care who works at
a Chinese restaurant who is voiced by Rob Schneider doing.

Speaker 3 (58:05):
His definitely not the only time Rob Schneider's done this,
I cannot I could pull a second example out of
my head, but I know he's done this before.

Speaker 7 (58:14):
We know.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
We talked about this on I think it was our
fifty First Dates episode. There are like the whole pieces
written about the long list of often anti Asian racist
jokes and characters that he does in movies like I
Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry is an example. He
does it in fifty First Day, every movie, it's almost

(58:35):
every movie he's in, honestly, So he's just doing another
example of it in Eight Crazy Nights. And then there
are a whole slew of ableist jokes that are directed
toward Whitey and Eleanor.

Speaker 5 (58:49):
I have a real problem with how they treated Eleanor
in the movie. I mean it just it starts bad
and then it gets so much worse. And then the
thing with the like she her hair is a wig,
and that's a big funny joke for a while that
she loses her wig, and it just felt like everything
they were doing to Whitey but made it worse because

(59:09):
she's a woman, you know what I mean, Like they're
like it's already bad. And then we added in a
lot of misogyny too.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
Because they seem to have they're like fraternal twins, they
seem to have been born with the same physical disability,
and so there's a ton of ablest jokes made about them.
But like you said, yeah, it's even the offensive jokes
that are leveled at Eleanor are even more so because

(59:35):
she is a woman and she's like voiced with this
very like shrill, annoying voice that Adam Sandler is doing
that's like very intentionally annoying.

Speaker 4 (59:45):
And apparently could have been worse, which is so wild.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
Yeah, and then for those two characters, the character design
is way more cartoonish than every single other character. Every
single other character you see at least resemble like human people,
But for these two characters, Whitey and Eleanor, they're very
very very cartoonish looking, like they they don't resemble human

(01:00:13):
beings the way that humans look. So it's just another
way that the movie doesn't take them seriously, that the
movie is disparaging toward these people. And then meanwhile, like Davy,
as we said, has like chiseled pecks and abs, and
it's like, give.

Speaker 3 (01:00:32):
Me a bit break doesn't make Yeah, that's I feel
like that's an Adam Sandler email, like hold on, hold on,
make me way.

Speaker 10 (01:00:41):
Yeah, he's a loser, but he's got to be sexy
because he looks like me, Like, I don't know, I
don't know how much creative control should one person be.

Speaker 9 (01:00:53):
Permitted to have, do your dumb man, this guy would
not have chiseled abs like and the fact that like
that is sort of used to justify why he's like
treating other characters so fat phobic, like is well.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
Because he's got You're like that doesn't make narrative sense
given his the only.

Speaker 4 (01:01:14):
Thing we see him consume the entire movie is.

Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
Beer anyways, right, I don't even know? And yeah, I
mean going back to Eleanor a little bit, I mean
I just found it. Really I felt like she was
treated I mean, she's treated horrifically, but it also felt
like she was like they were leaning on like Jewish
stereotypes with her, but her character was. It was very unclear.
I mean, not that it would make it okay either way,

(01:01:37):
but I was like, I'm pretty sure we were told
at the beginning of the movie this character isn't Jewish,
and then they layer all of these horrible stereotypes on her.
It's just like another thing where it's like both offensive
and confusing.

Speaker 5 (01:01:48):
He's doing it like a stereotypical Jewish old lady voice,
and like we picked up on that right away when
I was watching it. I was like, that's so weird
because like, again, they're not they're not Jews away.

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
Right, like the first thing we learned about those, right
And like you said, like even if they were Jewish characters,
to then lean into that stereotype is just lazy and reductive.

Speaker 4 (01:02:12):
Problematic and confusing. Every joke in this movie.

Speaker 5 (01:02:16):
I was pleasantly surprised that, I mean, are we ready
to talk about We're ready.

Speaker 6 (01:02:20):
To talk to Jennifer.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
Let's let's do it.

Speaker 5 (01:02:22):
I was pleasantly surprised that Jennifer didn't seem to fulfill
any Jewish like women's stereotypes. Really, I mean, in all
of that, I'm saying it as if it's a compliment,
but also as I angrily texted Jamie, we know like
six facts about Jennifer, Like, what do we really know
about Jennifer. She's not a well defined character. She's a woman,
she's a brunette.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
She's a mom, she works at Dunkin Donuts, she's Jewish,
she's generous.

Speaker 4 (01:02:47):
Yeah, yeah, she's a nice person.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
And she doesn't put up with Davy's shit a lot
of the time. And until that very it makes you
wonder why she's willing to like get with him, because
has he redeemed himself because he's so irredeemable that like
he doesn't do enough.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
I think No, it's she's treated as a trophy at
the end, I mean, which I think has made pretty explicit.

Speaker 4 (01:03:10):
By how like and they make eleanor do it where it's.

Speaker 3 (01:03:12):
Like, if you guys don't, Kish shall kick you in
the teeth.

Speaker 4 (01:03:17):
And then Jennifer is like, yep, makes sense. I guess.
I guess you're my son now too. You're like Jesus, come.

Speaker 5 (01:03:24):
You know, honestly, Then I'm going to retract my previous
statement that it was nice that she wasn't treated with
Jewish stereotypes, because the reason they probably didn't imbue her
with Jewish stereotypes is because she was a trophy at
the end, right, Like a lot in a lot of
movies like that, the Jewish woman character really does only
exist to be sort of mocked in a number of
different a variety of different fun ways. And so I

(01:03:46):
feel like you can you can have one or the other.
But Adam Sandler would not want his prize to be
kind of, you know, mired in Jewish stereotypes, right, like
he would he would separate those two out.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
It's very bleak, right, especially because the like the woman
trophy in so many movies is like very waspy. Everything
is bad in the movie.

Speaker 4 (01:04:07):
It's like where does ivid?

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
Yeah, the I guess I don't have anything to say
about the Dead Parents except like, what a wildly serious
plot point to deploy with like ten minutes left in
the movie. But yeah, I think, like Alex you said
it perfectly earlier, where it's like it's that is presented
as a justification for all of his behavior, which obviously

(01:04:30):
it isn't, and then when he makes the smallest bit
of progress as a person, he's immediately given trophy. Jennifer
who like stands up for him kind of in a
weird vacuum. I think it's like the only real justification
is like they have a connection from the past and
she's nice. There's also oh gosh, I want to take

(01:04:50):
sure I mentioned that there's also just like a again
like expectedly bad presentation of an unhoused person in this too, yes,
where like I don't even want to get it, but
it's like all of the stereotypes you would expect are present,
and it's again a character that doesn't do anything except
be there.

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
So it's like they just either to be made fun of.

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
Yeah, right, the same as you know, mister Chang and
like yeah, they're just like oh yeah, these are like
this is the joke we always make in the Adam
Sandler movie, so we have to make it here too,
and it's just like lazy and bad what else.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
They're similarly a very brief but noticeable transphobic joke in
one of the songs in Songs song Form emblematic of
the type of stuff that this movie thinks is funny.

Speaker 3 (01:05:40):
The protein powder hits on the victorious decrodrazy. You're just
at the point you're like, all right, I'm just like
I've I've stopped.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
Feeling I didn't even write that down because I had
like checked out so hard at that point that I
was like, I can't My brain is mush, I can't even.

Speaker 3 (01:05:56):
It's honestly like, yeah, listeners, let us know if we've
forgotten anything, because I found it so hard to lock
in on this movie, and I kept pausing it to be.

Speaker 4 (01:06:05):
Like, yeah, we'll do an earlier point.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
Like It's one thing. If there is a character who
hasn't properly dealt with grief, who is like turning to
substance use to cope, and who like with the help
of their community perhaps is able to like turn things
around and deal with things in a healthier way. There's

(01:06:32):
a lot of movies about that. Also. I was thinking
about how there's like a whole subgenre of movies about
a like down on his luck man, often someone who
is like dealing with alcoholism, who is either by like
community service, like is sentenced to community service, or something
that he has to coach a like youth team. Yeah,

(01:06:56):
there are so many movies to this effect. I'm starting
a lit boxed list, and so far I have. There's
a movie, there's a Ben Affleck movie called The Way Back.
I think Hoosiers has this premise. I want to say,
is Mighty Ducks one of them? Yes, Mighty Ducks?

Speaker 6 (01:07:13):
Yeah, absolutely a.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
League of their own. Like it's the Tom Hanks character.

Speaker 4 (01:07:18):
Okay, that's half like TV pilots too. He's back.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
So if anyone has any other I know I'm missing
so many. Oh there was actually a movie that I
was an extra in called The Winning Season starring Sam
Rockwell and Emma Roberts, that I think never got a
theatrical release.

Speaker 4 (01:07:36):
But like that sounds like a mad lib.

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
I'm basically the star of it as I walk through
one cafeteria scene with no speaking role. But it's like, yeah,
Sam Rockwell like gets community service and has to coach
a girls basketball team. So like, there's just so many
movies to this effect, a Crazy Nights being one of them. Anyway,
if there's a movie where like it's a similar premise

(01:07:58):
and the character like learns through like the love and
companionship of the people around him and that's his arc
and that he like treats people better because of it, fine, whatever,
Like this is also the premise of many many holiday movies,
but like this one is just so half baked in

(01:08:18):
its execution, and the character starts out so irredeemable that
you're just like, why do I care? Why am I
watching this? It's horrible, it's so tropy. Yeah, and it's
an absolute mess.

Speaker 5 (01:08:33):
I think that his character, like I was saying, a
lot of his behavior, I mean, there's no coming back
from some of the things he did, Like when you
throw you know, when you throw an old man off
a cliff inside a porner body and let him get
covered in shit, like there's really I mean, there's no redemption.

Speaker 6 (01:08:52):
There's no redemption to be how No, And I think
that even and I think that's probably why they drop
the dead parents in at the end. They're like today
and it.

Speaker 5 (01:09:00):
Just doesn't that doesn't make it better. And I also
think that is redeeming himself by saying maybe white he
should win the Patch Award, Like that's not.

Speaker 6 (01:09:11):
Is that redemption? Is that enough? Did he balance the
scales of justice? I feel like he did not right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
We've talked about this before, but male redemption arcs and
stories like this is something we see all the time,
where a man will be really awful to people and
do things that are arguably irredeemable, but because he does
one tiny little thing he does not even the bare minimum,
He does less than the bare minimum, but still gets

(01:09:36):
a redemption arc because culturally we just allow bad male
behavior far more than we permit or tolerate any kind
of bad behavior from marginalized genders.

Speaker 3 (01:09:50):
Well, yeah, like the thresholds for a man's redemption is
far lower, and the threshold for punishment of anyone who's
not a man.

Speaker 4 (01:09:57):
Is also a far lower.

Speaker 3 (01:09:59):
Like, you know, we see women get punished all the
time for existing and then like you know, characters like
this do the most horrific shit possible and then are
nice one time, and then it's like, no.

Speaker 4 (01:10:12):
You're right, you're right, here's your woman property after me too.

Speaker 5 (01:10:17):
There were all those apologies that came out, and I'm
thinking in particular of I want to say Mario Batali
and he was like, I'm sorry I sectually harassed people.

Speaker 6 (01:10:25):
Here is a cinnamon role recipe. Everything's good, And it was.

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
Just like, what, Well, that's the thing. Yeah, Like, if
you're a white man in society and you do something horrible,
you have a shot or redemption.

Speaker 3 (01:10:40):
Caitlyn, I keep forgetting to bring this up. I think
about it every couple of months. I want to do
a Matreon theme that's like white male O Tour post
Me Too movie, because there were so many of them
that were like, I get it, guys, I get it,
my bad and then it's like the only movie they'll
ever make that centers a woman and it makes no sense. Listeners,
please drop your your Like I've been meaning to make

(01:11:03):
a letterbox list of like Maleo term my b post
Me Too movies because some are okay, most of them
are incoherent and forgettable, but I feel like there was
they were like, oh, we gotta get Brad's in here
and like and it.

Speaker 4 (01:11:18):
Like doesn't work. I actually think one of the better
ones is The Last Duel. Oh, the Last Duel is
a good example that men.

Speaker 3 (01:11:25):
For example, is a that's the Alex Garland post me
to movies.

Speaker 4 (01:11:30):
There's just a lot of them.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
It's Bombshell, directed by j Rod.

Speaker 3 (01:11:35):
Yes, that's that might be bottom of the barrel for me.
That movie is dog shit And at the time I
was and they tried to kill me.

Speaker 4 (01:11:43):
At the time I got called by the newspaper.

Speaker 3 (01:11:46):
When I said the Bombshell was like dog shit and
bad for women.

Speaker 4 (01:11:51):
They're like, what do you mean you hate you hate women, Like.

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
Yes, yeah, that's exactly what that means there is that it.
Does anyone have any other thoughts about Eight Crazy Nights?

Speaker 3 (01:12:07):
Yeah, I mean, I think I forget when we last
had this conversation, but I do want to just sort
of like take a second for us to acknowledge Adam
Sandler's politics, which are actually quite relevant to this movie
in spite of it not really being about Hanakah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
Right, yeah, yeah, So Adam Sandler has a history of
having a very pro Israel stance. A couple examples of
this seems like a lot of it happened in twenty fifteen,
at least publicly, where he was reported as saying, quote,
I will always stand with Israel. I can't tolerate people

(01:12:45):
who criticize Israel without walking in their shoes. I hate
the lies they spread and their lack of knowledge. I
am proud to stand up for the Israelis unquote. And
then also in that year, there was this whole thing
where the frontman of Pink Floyd Roger Waters, you know,
he's a proponent of the BDS movement, he said he

(01:13:08):
would not play shows in Israel. Howard Stern then went
on like a long rant about this on his show
in October of twenty fifteen, and then Adam Sandler went
on The Howard Stern Show and said something to the
effect of like, I'm disgusted when they single out Israel.
I'm very pro Israel. He goes on to say like

(01:13:30):
he doesn't like it when musicians won't play concerts in Israel,
and then he's like, I love what you had to
say about it, Howard Stern, which was like some of
the most vile, racist, horrible stuff. I don't even want
to repeat it, but if anyone's interested in looking that
up on their own time, and that's why I was curious, like, Okay,

(01:13:51):
this is you know, nearly ten years ago. Has Adam
Sandler's stance changed at all? And it seems like he
hasn't said a whole lot about it in the past decade,
aside from after October seventh of twenty twenty three, he
did post on Instagram saying that I've been heartbroken by
the horrendous attacks on Israel. I pray for peace ands

(01:14:14):
the safety of innocent Israelis and Palestinians everywhere. So now
he's sort of like both sides in it, which is
it's a choice. It's a choice, and I don't think
he said much about it publicly since.

Speaker 5 (01:14:29):
Yeah, no, it's a different choice I think than he
had been making in the past. And part of me
wants to the optimistic part of me wants to see
that as a sign of progress. I mean, I think
going from supporting Howard Stern's vile statements that are incredibly
racist to saying Palaestins are also people who deserve safety

(01:14:50):
is like, you know, again, that is it's a step.

Speaker 4 (01:14:53):
We can call it.

Speaker 5 (01:14:53):
Let's just call a step. I don't think it needs
to be complimented. I don't think it needs to be
like celebrated. It's just like a hey, so we did
do and that's cool, you know. And I think that
like a lot of the support for Israel is generational.
So Adam Sandler just want to note what generation is
he and he's how old is he?

Speaker 4 (01:15:09):
Gen X?

Speaker 5 (01:15:10):
Yeah, so there's actually been a real shift in like
millennials and gen z around Israel. And I think a
lot of it is that there's social media and that
you can really see the harm that is being done
into Palestindian So I think that there's that component of
it that younger people are just a little bit more
in the know about that sort of thing and a
little more involved in that way. So I'm not trying

(01:15:32):
to give him a pass at all, but I am
like contextualizing that, like older Jews tend to have stronger
opinions and stronger support for Israel. Then sure, and again
and painting with a very brudbrush, because everybody has their.

Speaker 2 (01:15:44):
Own thoughts, of course, of course, yeah, so I guess, yeah,
unsurprising that he has these various stances over the years.
But it feels like what so much of Hollywood is doing,
which is just like remaining mostly silent on the.

Speaker 4 (01:16:02):
Matter, right, which which is? Which is? Which is still
saying something? Which is very.

Speaker 2 (01:16:08):
Point to say something, because when a genocide is happening,
and when a decades long subjugation of an entire population
of people is not being acknowledged, that is being complicit
and that is very much part of the violence.

Speaker 5 (01:16:29):
I'm I'm a member of Jewish Voices for Peace, which
is a nonprofit that's anti Sionist. I feel like that's
important to say, and a big part of Jewish Voices
for Peace is talking about how so many Jews have
just like a deep understanding of what state sanctioned violence
looks like and what a genocide looks like, because this

(01:16:50):
is unfortunately, a big part of our history, from programs
to blood libel claims and so much more all the way,
including the Holocaust. And I mean Jews, I feel like,
unfortunately are uniquely qualified to say this is a genocide.
And that's where Jewis Voices for Peace really comes into plays,
saying like we can see what we can call it
for what it is, like, we see what's happening, and

(01:17:12):
that is I think what is so heartbreaking to be
a Jewish person watching this happen is that, like, I
know what this is. I am familiar with the name.
I'm familiar with what a genocide is, and to see
it be perpetrated by people who call themselves Jewish like
me is just it's it's deeply heartbreaking.

Speaker 4 (01:17:29):
I can't.

Speaker 3 (01:17:29):
I mean, yeah, I have felt so like heartened bias
seeing work like the La branch of Jewish Voices for
Peace is wonderful.

Speaker 4 (01:17:38):
I've been going to a lot of events.

Speaker 3 (01:17:40):
Actually, one of our previous guests on the show, Sammerfera,
recently did an event with writers against the war on
Gaza out here, and like it does feel, and I
just like I've been tremendously educated by groups like these,
and particularly by Palestinian writers, and I am glad for
like and younger generations that there has been such movement

(01:18:05):
because we have, you know, flawed tools, but tools to
be able to better understand that makes the propaganda less
powerful kind of, I guess taking it back to Adam Sandler,
I've the silence. I don't know, It's like, again, everyone
is on an individual journey. Who knows how his kids feeled.
I know that there's a lot of families that are
fractured by younger generations being against Israel, you know, But

(01:18:30):
silence is a business decision is something that I find
particularly vile and unsettling because it's like, I don't not
particular to Adam Sandler, but it's like there's you can't
not have a feeling about it. So the silence is
just it's it's a very pointed choice.

Speaker 4 (01:18:53):
So we don't know, but something.

Speaker 3 (01:18:55):
That I have seen just again of how this continues
to affect. I mean, obviously we should be centering the
Palestinian people first and foremost, but as sort of we
see these issues continue to be discussed less and less
in media. I was really surprised. There's a recent story

(01:19:17):
where Gladiator Too just came out I'm going somewhere with this,
and there was originally an Egyptian Palestinian actor, I hope
I'm saying her name correctly, Mae Kalamawi, who was originally
I believe Paul Mescal's love interest. It's Gladiator, so I'm
sure it wasn't a great part, but like all of

(01:19:37):
her scenes were shot and then her entire part was
cut out of the movie in post production, which was
taking place after she had been vocally supportive of Palestine
because of course she's a Palestinian actor. And just the
fact that this is still really deeply affecting, particularly Palestinian artists,

(01:20:00):
and it is like becoming less and less and less
discussed as time went on.

Speaker 4 (01:20:05):
I'm so like surprised. I guess at this point that
that is like.

Speaker 3 (01:20:10):
Not a story that seems to have broken through in
any meaningful way, in spite of the fact that like
the movie is out and doing very well.

Speaker 4 (01:20:17):
So yeah, I don't know, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:20:20):
Just I mean, it's just indicative of medias of Hollywood's
of society's apathy. Yeah, if not outward cruelty and violence
toward Palestinians, and it's so disheartening, and that's why we
must continue.

Speaker 3 (01:20:38):
That's why we must talk about eight Crazy Nights on
the Betel cast.

Speaker 2 (01:20:42):
If it's a vehicle for us to then also talk
about Palestinian liberation.

Speaker 3 (01:20:47):
Then yeah, we're also in the in the new year,
going to be covering a few Palestinian films as well.
Like we want to keep the conversation going. But yeah,
we wanted to talk to you about it because I
know you're you're involved with Jewish voices for peace and
just in general are the best. I've learned so much
from you. You've You've educated my whole family truly, Yeah about.

Speaker 4 (01:21:10):
What well my brother lived with you.

Speaker 5 (01:21:12):
Yeah, it's trying to radicalize your brother.

Speaker 3 (01:21:15):
And then my dad visited you guys on the stoop
during the pandemic and he learned things too.

Speaker 4 (01:21:20):
He was like communist. Alex Is added again.

Speaker 5 (01:21:23):
He called he called me the world's friendliest socialist.

Speaker 2 (01:21:28):
I think he.

Speaker 4 (01:21:30):
Gave me that feels like an attack on me.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
As opposed to my daughter, who's the world's bitchiest socialist.

Speaker 4 (01:21:39):
Because I just say in a really friendly way.

Speaker 6 (01:21:40):
I'm like, wouldn't that be neat if?

Speaker 2 (01:21:44):
Oh my gosh, anyway, thank you for talking with us
about this, and yeah, does does anyone have anything else
they want to talk about?

Speaker 3 (01:21:54):
This movie sucks ass, it's quite bad. And if you
think it's good, considered, did you see it when you
were ten? And if not, there's something seriously wrong with you.

Speaker 4 (01:22:04):
This is the time. Usually it's like, you love what
you love.

Speaker 3 (01:22:06):
If you love this movie, you're sick and need you
need help?

Speaker 5 (01:22:11):
Oh, we didn't talk about this, but very briefly did
a woman talk to another woman ever in the course
of the movie.

Speaker 6 (01:22:17):
Because I tried to keep track of that.

Speaker 5 (01:22:19):
I think that the closest it comes is when Eleanor
tells them to kiss. But she's not just talking to Jennifer.
She's also talking today, she's.

Speaker 3 (01:22:27):
Talking to the royal Yeah, right, the collective we.

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
And the context is like, have a heterosexual kiss, please?

Speaker 4 (01:22:33):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:22:34):
Yeah, don't think it passes the Bechdel test even remotely. Yeah,
Jennifer doesn't have any friends. Also, like if she was
like on a basketball team with Davey when they were kids,
Like she's a basketball player, why doesn't like there could
have easily been a thing where like she's playing basketball
with her son or shooting hoops or whatever like, but

(01:22:57):
the movie doesn't care at all about characterizing her except
to have her be like an attractive person that Davy
can win as a trophy at the end.

Speaker 3 (01:23:08):
Yeah, which is too bad because they give her like
some potentially interesting characteristics but have no interest in exploring
any of them, any of her interiority, Like she is
just a cardboard cutout at them all, and I will give.

Speaker 2 (01:23:25):
It to her that she's kind of the she's one
of the few people who will call Davy out for
his cruel awful behavior light he does it too, But
that feels.

Speaker 3 (01:23:37):
Very like attempted feminism of the time, where it's like
they say one thing and then they do another. Because
she still ends up with them at the end, like
there's there is no real consequence other than a delay
of less than a week, it seems like.

Speaker 2 (01:23:52):
Well, also, there's a fine line between a character who
we are not meant to like making reductive and problematic
remarks to people and the movie framing that as being wrong,
And there is some degree of that in this movie,
because he does get called out quite a bit. But
then the movie also relies on jokes that are like,

(01:24:17):
for example, any time Whitey has a seizure or a
lot of Whitey's behavior is like the movie making fun
of him from a very ableist point of view. So
even though the Davy character will be called out for
being ablest, the movie then turns around and makes the
same ableist jokes. So it's like, then, then why are

(01:24:40):
you even calling him out? If this is how you
feel about people with disabilities, or if this is how
you feel about fat people or whatever. So it's just
so disgusting. I'll give the movie zero nipple. I give
the movie negative five nipples.

Speaker 3 (01:24:56):
Nice the end, I think I will do the same,
and I have nothing else to say about it, like, honestly, yeah,
what about.

Speaker 4 (01:25:06):
You, Alex?

Speaker 5 (01:25:07):
Yeah, I think negative five feels fair. Can I give
it like negative stars of David too? Maybe like half
a half a star of David? Just because like, where
is the Hanukah? I saw some menorahs in the background.
They were ice sculptures. That's it, basically, So I'm gonna
give it half a star of David.

Speaker 6 (01:25:25):
Hmm, That's all I got.

Speaker 3 (01:25:27):
It's brutal I also, I think, as we've talked through this,
I think now that in an earlier draft of the
movie that Whitey and Eleanor were Jewish, and that's why
the ending doesn't make sense. But then they changed it.
Why they changed it is anyone's guess, but I would

(01:25:48):
guess that they added that because they say it's in
that one line that we that unfortunately introduces Whitey where
he they're like, Whitey, you're.

Speaker 4 (01:25:55):
Not even Jewish. He's like, I know. But so I
don't know why they added that. They could have just
taken it out.

Speaker 3 (01:26:01):
Anyways, I have nothing else to say.

Speaker 2 (01:26:06):
Well, Alex, thank you so much for joining us for
this discussion.

Speaker 6 (01:26:10):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 4 (01:26:11):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:26:14):
Tell us more about your your art and your work
and where people can find you and plug away.

Speaker 6 (01:26:21):
Excellent.

Speaker 5 (01:26:21):
Yeah, you can find me on Instagram, Zinnia Socialist Supply Company.
I make radical art stickers, all sorts of stuff like that,
lots of rent theme stickers as we discussed before, but
don't worry, other musical theater stickers as well.

Speaker 4 (01:26:37):
Thank god.

Speaker 6 (01:26:39):
Yeah, I know we got to keep the all.

Speaker 4 (01:26:42):
We need it all.

Speaker 6 (01:26:44):
So you can find me on there and yeah, yeah, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:26:49):
That you can get our stickers on our merch store.
So but the best way to support our show is
to go to patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast and
subscribe to our Matreon where you get two bonus episodes
every single month, plus access to the back catalog. Also,

(01:27:09):
we have live shows coming up in La San Francisco
and Portland, so if you go to link tree slash
Bechtel Cast, you can grab tickets to those shows. We'd
love to see you. They as well as some of
them will be live streamed, so even if you don't
live in those cities, the La Show and the Portland
show will be live streamed, so you can still watch

(01:27:32):
those if you grab tickets.

Speaker 4 (01:27:35):
And yeah, that's Alex.

Speaker 3 (01:27:38):
We owe you a good movie, so come back with
your favorite movie and we will cover that next.

Speaker 6 (01:27:45):
That sounds amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:27:46):
Come on board, all right, gang, and yeah, with on
that note, let's.

Speaker 2 (01:27:53):
This movie has been a technical foul.

Speaker 4 (01:27:57):
Perfect Bye bye.

Speaker 2 (01:28:02):
The Bechdelcast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin
Derante and Jamie loftis produced by Sophie Lichtermann, edited by
Moe laboord Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan
with vocals by Katherine Voskresenski. Our logo and merch is
designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo.
For more information about the podcast, please visit Linktree Slash

(01:28:26):
Bechdel Cast