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October 5, 2023 89 mins

This week, we kick it up with special guest Mekita Rivas while discussing the Disney Channel Original Movie, Gotta Kick It Up!

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bechde cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and
best start changing it with the Bechdel cast.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Shimmy, shimmy, stop something, dance moves. I don't know, we're dancing.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Oh I could have taken the lead on that. I
was a dancer. Yeah, you were a dancer. Okay, so
you try see if you can do it anything better
than me.

Speaker 4 (00:30):
Five six seven.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
That's my favorite part of any dance movie is when
you get the five six seven eight hard and then
you just get like a woman in her early thirties
panting and screaming at teenagers. That is the good stuff. Hey,
and you're just like, I would die for this woman.
I don't know why, but I've been told that I should.
Oh God, this movie is about a lot of things,

(00:56):
but it is about the evil power that a dance
coach bolts over her dominion, her Jurassic Park dominions, her minions.
My famously rejected script for Universal Pictures Jurassic Park Dominions.
It would have been the crossover event of the century.
But instead they went with Colin Trevorell, Welcome to the

(01:20):
Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus, my.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Name is Caitlin Derante, and this is our show where
we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the
Bechdel Test simply as a jumping off point.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
You're damn right, which is I'll tell you what it is?
Tell me what that is.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
It's a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel,
sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test, originally appearing in her
comic Decks to Watch Out For in the mid eighties
as a bit of a one off goof that also
kind of examines how there was so little representation of

(01:59):
queer women in the movies at the time. Absolutely something
I would like to mention more often as we discussed
the Bechtel Test. But anyway, there is deep lore for
the Bechtel Test.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
Such deep lore.

Speaker 4 (02:11):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
In any case, it is the medium metric that, again
we use as a springboard. Our version of it is
two characters of a marginalized gender with names must speak
to each other, and their conversation has to be about
something other than a man. Ideally it's a substantial conversation

(02:31):
and not just a nice day we're having, Sally. Yes,
it is Betty.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
Or some of our worst passes, which is like shut
the hell up. Okay, yeah, which is a classic woman dynamic. Yes,
so quickly, right off the top. Today we are covering
the classic Disney Channel original movie. And if you're a
listener of this show, you have statistically been harassing us

(03:01):
about covering one Disney Channel original movie or another for
the better part of ten years. Yes, so today we
are covering one of the greats. We are covering Got
to Kick It Up two thousand and two. But just
so you know, the way that we're structuring our episode
today because of guest availability, is that it will be
Kitlin and myself for the recap portion, and then we're

(03:21):
going to bring in an incredible guest, Mikita Revas for
our discussion. So if you're like, is there a guest, yes, essentially, patience, patience, Yes,
But yes, today we're covering Got to Kick It Up.
And boy, oh boy, Caitlin, Yes, what is your history,
if any, with the Disney Channel original movie Gotta Kick

(03:44):
It Up.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
I have no history with it, As with every other
D com. I've never seen it right until I've had
to watch it for this show.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
Do you ever wonder who you would be if you do?
Do you think you'd be different? I think I would.
I think like because in a small way, but in
a way not substantial.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
I don't think it would have informed my taste very
differently than it already is, because I did watch some
like almost decom coded movies, but one with just like
higher budgets. But the one that comes to mind would
be like Lindsay Lohan Parent Trap, which I saw on

(04:28):
repeat as a kid. But also as a kid, I
was watching Titanic every day, so you know, I mean.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yeah, there's no lack of the general vibe in your life.
I feel like, mainly my life would be different because
I would not wear so many ugly clothes and be like,
this is awesome, but unfortunately there was one of these
damn things on every single week and they would be

(04:57):
wearing the weirdest stuff, and you would. I mean, I
feel like it's the xenonification of wow, yeah, thank you
so much of women of a certain and also, let's
like take the gender specificity out of it. We're all
impacted by the brutal choices made by the various costume

(05:17):
departments in.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
These Indeed, so all that to say, I had never
seen this movie. I had no history with it, but
I'm excited to discuss Jamie, what is your relationship with
Gotta Kick It Up? Exclamation point?

Speaker 3 (05:36):
I love this movie. I saw it the day it
aired on television. Wow. Sorry, I was in elementary school
when this came out. I remember watching it with my
cousins as as I feel like my answer for every
d com because there's only so many ways to get
kids to shut up, and this was one of them.

(05:56):
At this time, my cousins and they were always I
remember it like, because we all lived within a mile
of each other. My mom ran the daycare at my house.
We were together a lot. And then these would air
on Friday nights. And so first of all, even if
you weren't excited about the movie, it was a sleepover opportunity,
and so you had to spend as much time with

(06:18):
your girl as as possible. And so this was an
opportunity and it felt like to me, And I wonder
how my cousins feel about this, I will ask them
that it felt to me that if the d com
was about girls, higher likelihood that the sleepover would would

(06:38):
be approved by the powers that be, And if you're
getting kind of like a Kyle Massey original, if you're
getting like a Ricky Solman movie, you wouldn't understand. He
played Raven Simone's little brother Corey on that so Raven.
He later started the spinoff, Corey in the House, in
which inexplicably he moved to the White House. I didn't

(07:01):
watch that one, okay, because it was about both the
White House and not the Smart House. Not the Smart House,
which is my white House. No, well, anyways, they're all
a part of the same expanded universe. But anyways, we
watched all of these for whatever seven or eight years
until it was suddenly uncool to do so gotta kick

(07:23):
it up. Though firmly remember watching it, remember watching it
with my cousins, and we loved girls and dancing, and
so this was an event. And at the time, I don't,
I mean, as I rewatched it, I remembered, I feel
like with a lot of childhood movies, I remember basically
nothing that happened in this movie. I remembered girls, I

(07:45):
remember dancing, and I think because of how history played out,
I remembered America Ferrara, Yes, of course, and so when
I went to revisit this movie, what I thought this
movie was was a movie about a group of teen
dancers starring America Ferrera who do cool dances and win

(08:06):
the contest. It is, however, a movie in which America
Ferrera barely has a character, where a white woman who
played Bell on Broadway and did the voice for Megara
and Hercules plays a white savior coach who teaches a

(08:26):
group of teen girls nothing. That's sort of what happened.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Because it's not as though she's inspiring them to start dancing.
They're already all dancers.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
And at many points in this movie they're dancing in
spite of her. And so I found it interesting to
be like, oh, this movie is actually about a central
white character I didn't even remember who I really do like,
upon further reflection, she's certainly and I feel like the
nature of these movies, and by that I mean teacher student,

(09:04):
kind of sappy movies. I'm gonna take the white savior
element out for a moment. But it is like, well,
sure they learned from me, but I learned from them too.
But even if you put this movie up to a microscope.
I don't think that they really learned anything from her. No, well,
that is correct. Anyways, she's able to overcome her very

(09:26):
boring problems related to not finishing her freshman year at Juilliard.
I'm like crime a fucking river. Anyways, in my memory,
this movie was a great cinematic achievement. In reality, it
is a very interesting, somewhat dated, but I think valuable

(09:46):
to talk about cinematic achievement.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yes, yes, yes, I can't argue with that. Yeah, so
shall we talk about it further with the recap.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
Let's recap, baby, But first.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
Let's take a quick little break.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
And we're back, and we're back.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Okay, here's the recap for Gotta Kick it Up exclamation
point and you gotta, and you simply gotta.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
If there's one thing you gotta do, it's kick it up.
Did you know the original title to this movie was
kick it Up exclamation point? And then it turns out
that was something and they're like, hmm, how do we
punch it up? Gotta? I do think that that choice
alone illustrates the immediacy with which these movies are made,
where they're like I don't know it airs in ten minutes.

(10:47):
What are you gonna call it? You're like, you gotta
kick it up, you gotta kick it up, and so
it was. I did not.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
I was like, is this like a dance expression the
way that like, oh, you know what, First of all,
it's not.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
First of all, as a dancer, it isn't.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
Also, when I went on to urban dictionary dot com
to confirm to.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
Talk about it, you could just text me my god.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Well, I was like, Okay, is kick it up a
dance expression?

Speaker 3 (11:18):
No?

Speaker 2 (11:19):
And it's not. And when you look up kick it
up on Urban Dictionary, the first entry is when your
friends want you to smoke a big ass joint with them?

Speaker 3 (11:32):
Why in the twenty three which you can assult this.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Website, And then the response is like, oh yeah, let's
kick it up tonight, and that means to smoke a
joint of marijuana.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
Okay, first of all, if you're a listener, please let
us know if you've ever heard that in your fucking life.
It's like, that reminds me of my mom. Still not
fully understanding the implications of the phrase hook up. Oh
in a way that I think I maybe have talked
about it in the show before it, but it always
makes me laugh where she's like, hey, I have to

(12:06):
go hook up with your uncle, You're just like you
don't she means meet up, but she says it like
she's gonna have sex with growth her brother in law.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
You know.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
And so in that way, it's language is amazing and
it can sound like anything. But in terms of kick
it up, as far as I know, unless it's a
dance genre, I am not trained in. No, it's not
an expression. And not to brag, but I was the
captain of my high school dance team, and so if

(12:39):
there was any kicking of it up, I think I
would have known something about it. That's true, But I
believe colloquially within the community of high school dancers the
phrase was kick it was merely kick got it it
up was implied within the.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
Action of course, now you're gonna kick it down. Title
reminded me that so many movies that center female athletics,
uh huh have it in the title. Remember we did
a whole Matreon theme based on it whip it, stick
it it, bring it.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
On, and bring it on. Also, I would say, almost
definitively that gotta kick it up in part got a
green light off of the success of Bring It On.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
I would say yes, probably.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
As I feel is the tendency for like, if there's
a very successful movie that comes out theatrically, about a
year or so later, there'll be sort of a version
of it that comes out on the Disney Channel. It's
just how society works, and you can like that or
not sure. Sure, sure, but anyways, Okay, what's this movie about?

Speaker 2 (13:46):
I'll tell you what it is? It wow, Because we
also were pondering, what does it ever refer to in
the title of these movies, We're not quite sure.

Speaker 3 (13:57):
Yeah, what are they kicking up there? Feet? I meant
like spiritually? Oh right, I'm a dancer, Caitlyn, I know
what they're kicking. Yes, I forgot. Oh my god, you're
starting to piss me off. And we're going to post
a picture of my high school dance team because I'm
starting to get it's fine.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
All right, Well, okay, one last tangent before we Oh no,
I haven't that. Every time I learned about this movie
before seeing it or knowing what it was about, I assumed,
based on the verb in the title kick kick, that
it would be about soccer. And so I was like, Woa,
hoho soccer movie as a also captain of my high.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
School soccer team. Both leaders, captain, we're leaders, Oh captain,
my captain, which speaks to okay. Before we got a mic,
we were talking about wow. We really communicate in the
love language of subgenres. We were talking about how this
movie is directed by the same director, Ramon Menandez who

(14:59):
directed Stand and Deliver, which has, as You're about to hear,
a similar bit different overarching story is like a teacher
inspires a group of youths to aspire to greatness, and
that is a subgenre I like to think of as
substitute teacher movies. And not to really brag, because not

(15:19):
only was I a high school dance captain, I also
would wow later be a substitute teacher, which is sort
of a direct one to two if the truth is
to be said. And my career as a subsidute teacher
was four months in Watertown, Massachusetts. Brave of me to say,

(15:40):
but I did not know what to do when I
was substitute teaching Jim. I would make the kids run
in a circle and if they were good, I would
play let it Go from Frozen, and that was one lesson.
That's an example of one of my lesson plans. My
other lesson plan was movies, and I would pull from
the same substitute teacher movies that I would watch, which

(16:01):
included Stand and Deliver, which included Remember the Titans. I
think most significantly, Remember the Titans to me is my
seminal substitute teacher movie. What else were mister Holland Opus
anytime a teacher is doing some shit that they shouldn't
be doing. Dead Poets Society, but that's more of like

(16:21):
a high school and or you can't show that to
second graders. Remember the Titans, turn it on for fucking anybody.

Speaker 4 (16:28):
You know.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
I would have assumed it would have been more appropriate
for older kids.

Speaker 3 (16:32):
But not if you ask the second graders I taught,
and you can rewatch it. Let me know if that
was bad of me to do, but I didn't. Anyways,
this I feel like, even though it didn't become because
I think it was like a TV movie, But I
think that this movie falls squarely into like substitute teacher
movie canon. Why were we talking about this.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
Because I said, oh, Captain, my captain, Oh Dead Poet Society? Okay, yeah, yeah,
Well the movie about what is it? I'll tell we'll
figure out what it is later, Yes, yes, yes, yes, okay.
So we open on the first day of school at
Marshall Middle School in southern California. I'm guessing LA Area,

(17:15):
but it doesn't really specify.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
We'll talk about this in the discussion. But the movie
is based on experiences that one of the writers had
in the LA area, so I think it's implied.

Speaker 4 (17:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
Yeah, And before classes start for the day, when everyone
is just sort of lounging around outside, two students, Daisy
played by Camille Guatti and Yolanda that's America Ferira, start dancing.
You might even say they are kicking it up. And

(17:47):
then another girl, as Marelda, played by Sabrina Wiener, wants
to dance with them, but Daisy has a bit of
an attitude and she won't let as Marelda dance.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
Don't worry, that will not really impact the plot moving forward.
It's just something that happens a couple of times.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
It's just a way to introduce the characters.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
It's just a way to say some shit.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yes, then we meet Miss Bartlett played by Susan Egan.

Speaker 3 (18:17):
Yes, Susan Egan is Bell on Broadway. Just keep that
in mind, because she's just like associated with so many
famous voice roles that it's like really hard to ignore.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
She is the new biology teacher at the school.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
Don't worry, she's not qualified for the job.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
She does not have a background in biology or really
science of any kind.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
Which is substitute teacher coded. Yes, except she's a permanent teacher.
She lives in a house. I was like, this is
a fantasy world anyways.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah, Principal Zavala played by Miguel Sandeval, who I recognize
from the beginning of a Park. Fun little fact about me.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
Oh, he's kind of a legendary character actor. He's been
in so much stuff. Indeed.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, So the principal goes up to Miss Bartlett and
he's like, good luck. These students can be pretty intimidating,
and they're like, what.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
Do you mean by that?

Speaker 2 (19:18):
Well, right, And I think what he means is that
Miss Bartlett is a waspy, blonde, white woman and the
majority of the students at this school are LATINX and
the students in Miss Bartlett's class do not take her seriously.

(19:39):
And Daisy even gets up and starts dancing like on
her desk.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
I don't appreciate that this is implied to be a
racial comment when it is simply how teenagers treat new teachers. Yeah,
you're just like, yeah, she's a joke because she's an
adult and she's new here. That's just how that works,
is indeed.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
And then as this kind of chaos is unraveling, Principles
of Alla walks in sees the disruption and gives Daisy
a month of detention. Now, speaking of dancing or kicking
it up, as it's known across all cultures, Yolanda is
talking to her friend Alyssa played by Joanna Flores about

(20:27):
the school's dance team. The previous dance coach had retired,
so now it looks like there's not going to be
a dance team this year. That is until as Morelda
discovers that miss Bartlett went to Juilliard, So she asks
the principal to try to recruit miss Bartlett to be

(20:48):
the new dance coach, and Miss Bartlett reluctantly agrees, and
tryouts are coming up, and Daisy negotiates with principals of Alla,
who join the dance team instead of serving her detention
time at.

Speaker 3 (21:05):
The suggestion of her boyfriend of ambiguous age named Chewie,
who said that he had done the same thing previously.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Right.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
So Daisy, Jolie, Esmerelda Alissa all try out for the team,
as well as another girl named Mary Soul. She's played
by Selima Rodriguez, and they, along with a handful of
other girls who will never speak and we will never
actually meet, but that's just how movies work. They all

(21:38):
make the team. Miss Bartlett is very like, no nonsense,
and she expects the girls to be as dedicated to
the team as she is. And they start to get
into shape and they start to put choreography together and
then it's time for their first competition at Rolling Hills

(22:00):
Middle School. But the team's performance is pretty sloppy, and
Daisy gets so pissed about it that she storms off
stage and quits the team, and the team in general
doesn't have a lot of faith in Miss Bartlett. But
then Daisy sees Miss Bartlett dancing in the gym by herself.

Speaker 3 (22:23):
Okay, one of the most iconic scenes in the movie
because it sucks. Yeah, like it is heavily implied, And
this we'll talk about in our discussion as well, but
it's like very implied that it's like, oh, Miss Bartlett's
relationship to dance is really complicated, and you're sort of like, okay,

(22:43):
but yeah. Then the first glimpse you get of why
that may be, and it also is repeatedly referenced in
a way that I don't think she's really held a
task for in the scope of the movie, is that
she's projecting her own issues onto the team and intentionally
holding them back because of issues that she hasn't resolved
in regards to her relationship to dance. Spoiler alert, The

(23:05):
reveal is very boring, but this is the first scene
where we see like her dancing like no one's watching,
and for some reason, and I think this is also
very just like in the way that these movies are
written to be pretty soapy, seeing Miss Bartlett dance like
no one's watching infuriates Daisy. She says, how dare you
dances that no one's watching when we could have been

(23:27):
watching I love drama.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
Because it turns out that Miss Bartlett has more moves
than the team realized, and it seems like she's been
holding back. So Miss Bartlett then convinces Daisy to rejoin
the team and they all get to work on some
more serious choreography, and then there's an upcoming competition at

(23:54):
Hamilton Middle School, but Miss Bartlett won't let them compete
at it because she thinks they still have a lot
more work to do. She wants them to be the
absolute best because a part of her whole thing in
her arc is that, like she put too much pressure
on herself to be perfect, and she thinks that being

(24:14):
the best is the most important thing. Now, the girls
feel differently, and they decide to enter the competition without
Miss Bartlett knowing. So the team spruces up their uniforms
and heads to Hamilton. Daisy's boyfriend Chui and his friends
give them a.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
Ride because they're very supportive for a chunk of.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
The movie, right until they're suddenly not for no reason,
but the team they're not sure if they can do this,
but then.

Speaker 3 (24:48):
And they're like, can we kick it up?

Speaker 2 (24:50):
We gotta, we gotta, we gotta, And then Marisola is like, well,
my grandma always says see, which means yes we can,
which becomes the team's motto.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
So just a quick they briefly contextualize it within the
movie but I also want to contextualize it within the episode.
So the phrase cipu it's a historical phrase. It was
very intentionally put into the movie by It's Safe as
a primary writer, Nancy Della Santos, who also wrote Selena,

(25:25):
amongst many other movies. So she contextualizes it in an
interview that she did a couple of years ago with
a website called Millennialhallmarker dot com, she says, I am
extremely proud of getting csipude into the script and onto
the television screen, but it's not a dance phrase, or
wasn't at the time. Ccipuide is Spanish for yes you can,

(25:46):
Yes it is possible, and it is the motto of
the United farm Workers Union, co founded by union activists
Cesar Chavez and Dolores Squerta. The phrase is credited to
Miss Huerta in support of Caesar's hunger strike the union's creation.
I love the phrase and wanted the young dance team
to have words that reflected their strength and commitment to
their goal. And it was great to hear these words

(26:08):
spoken on television. It always makes me smile. I really
loved that she got to say that this was for
the fifteenth anniversary of the movie, so twenty seventeen. But that, yeah,
this is in a movie that, as you'll hear in
our discussion, certainly has plenty to criticize about a lack
of cultural specificity the phrase and also having it contextualized

(26:32):
as something that was important to this character's grandma does
sort of give it a cultural specificity. And I don't know, honestly, like,
I don't know if I ever would have learned this
phrase if it weren't for this movie. Nice, thanks for sharing.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
Okay, wow, I said, bravely, Yeah it.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
Thanks, thank you.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
Anyways, anyways, back to the cap no I kid, But
also here's the rest of the recap.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
Okay, fine, So.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
The team competes at Hamilton Middle School and they get
third place. And while they're there, a woman named Linell Elliott,
who's the dean at a prestigious performing arts high school,
approaches Daisy and wants her to apply to the school,
and Daisy is hopeful, but she's also concerned about tuition costs.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
And things like that. I really love again it's like
another teen movie thing, but the name of the dance
scout is a woman named Linell Elliott played by vonn
Farrow and I just love when a character is only
referred to by their full name for essentibly no reason

(27:51):
to just like intimate their grandeur. And so they never
call her Linell. They never call her miss Elliott. Every
single time, it's Lynelle Elliot's gonna be there, and it's
like they're saying Barbara streisand but it's just like a
lady in the movie, and she's always wearing a pantsuit.
She's kind of like our resident girl boss of the movie,

(28:14):
and she's great, and she's sort of like, you know,
she's like, hey, you know, we can get you a
full scholarship, and you're like, wow, that never happens. Lenelle
Elliott as far as we know an icon we're respecting
ally Yeah, yeah, true, it's Lenell Elliott for crying out loud.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
Yeah famously. Okay, So the girls return from the competition.
Their parents are really upset for just sort of like
disappearing for a few hours. Miss Bartlett finds out about it,
and she's also upset that they betrayed her trust. But
Daisy is like, well, it feels like you don't believe
in us, and Miss Bartlett is like, actually, it's that

(28:55):
I don't believe in myself and I've put too much
pressure on myself to be perfect. And then so after
this heart to heart, everyone feels ready to keep competing,
so the team puts together another routine they gear up
for regionals. There's some drama along the way, such as

(29:15):
Daisy's boyfriend, Chewey can't handle that she's spending so much
time dancing, so he breaks.

Speaker 4 (29:21):
Up with her.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
Ugh, we'll talk about that. Yeah, the school.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
Doesn't have the budget to pay for their trip to regionals.
And then also miss Bartlett was offered a job at
another dot com company or whatever they keep calling it.
And the team finds out about this job offer and
they feel betrayed, but Miss Bartlett is like, no, I
turned it down. I'm still your dance coach. And then

(29:47):
they put on a car wash slash food festival thing
to raise funds for the trip to regionals. And then
also Chewy comes around and apologizes for being an ass.
And then it's the day of the regional competition. The
team is there with their new uniforms. Daisy almost chokes

(30:11):
because Linnell Elliott is there to evaluate her dancing, but
she does a good job the team puts on a
great performance and they get second place.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yay.

Speaker 3 (30:26):
The end, Yes, I always forget because it's like, it
does feel like such an unconventional choice to be like,
let's end at the penultimate competition and we'll just sort
of tell you in a slide how they did. Yeah,
we'll talk about this in a second. But like, because
this is semi based on real experience, I was like,

(30:49):
why couldn't they just win first place?

Speaker 5 (30:51):
Why?

Speaker 3 (30:52):
Yeah, embellish those details, you know, you gotta kick it up.
The plot that is wow. And with that, let's take
a break and come back with a full discussion with
our wonderful guest.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
All right, we are pleased to be joined by our
special guest. She's a freelance journalist. She covers culture and style.
It's Mikita Revas. Hello, Hello, Hi, welcome.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
Welcome, thank you, thank you for having me of course so.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
Much for being here. So we approached you because you
had written a really great piece in Refinery twenty nine
about the movie, and so we're just curious basically what
your relationship with this movie is kind of preliminary thoughts
and then we'll get further into it.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
Yeah, because we also want to talk about how I mean,
your piece is about how your feelings about it just
changed over time.

Speaker 4 (32:01):
Yeah. What's interesting is I hadn't really thought about this
movie in probably twenty years, and.

Speaker 5 (32:08):
I have been contributing at Refinery twenty nine s almost
for a while. And my editor was like, Hey, this
anniversary is coming up for this movie, which you know
was pretty influential for a lot of young Latinas growing up,
you know, fifteen twenty years ago, So would you want

(32:29):
to rewatch.

Speaker 4 (32:30):
It and just sort of like let me know your thoughts,
and so I had.

Speaker 5 (32:35):
Honestly, I kind of went into it a blank slate,
Like I think I last saw it on the Disney
Channel when I was maybe eleven twelve years old.

Speaker 4 (32:46):
Give or take.

Speaker 5 (32:48):
So I couldn't really recall much other than like your
typical group of like rebellious, troubled kids who are essentially
kind of like adopted by this like white savior, you know,
sort of character. And then upon rewatch, I was like, oh, wow,
like some of this has not aged very well. So

(33:10):
it was sort of a journey, but there were still
parts of it that did feel heartwarming. So it was
a little like a mix of both I would say
for sure.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
Sure, I mean there's something to be said for I mean,
LATINX representation in like major Hollywood movies is still extremely low,
and so for this dcom too, I mean you could
are I was gonna say for it to center this
like Team of Latina.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
Yeah, but you didn't argue that it's like the Lady
centers first of all, so distracting that it's like the
lady who voiced Bell because once I learned that, I
couldn't unhear the voice the Hi. Yeah. But it's like
also about her like flopping at Juilliard, and you're like, well,
I don't care about her flopping at Julliard.

Speaker 5 (33:56):
I just don't, right, Yeah, And I think there was
It's like another part where she talks about like growing up,
her parents like wanted her to work really hard. She
was just saying like I felt like I had to
be the best or like good was never good enough,
And essentially it felt like her sob story was like

(34:17):
her parents wanted her to work too hard and just
like I mean, I'm not trying to minimize that by
any means, but it just was sort of like I
don't know if this like warrants you you know, like
kind of diverting away from you know, the other Latina
characters in the movie. It kind of felt like there

(34:37):
were parts where her backstory probably could have been compressed
a little bit more right.

Speaker 3 (34:42):
And one thing that really stuck with me about your
piece was how you closed it, which is by saying
why couldn't Miss Bartlett been Latina? Like why? And I
had the same feeling as I was rewatching it where
I don't know, I found it very interesting that this
movie was directed by this director as Stand and Deliver,

(35:02):
because you're like, oh, this guy's bread and butter is
teachers bringing students together, but having I mean, obviously the
optics of the teacher being white and clearly from a
more privileged background just like totally undercuts a lot of
elements of the story. And yeah, your suggestion was like, yeah,
why did they not do that?

Speaker 4 (35:22):
I don't know, questions that need answers.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
And we don't have them.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
Although I guess what informs this choice, yeah, justifies it,
but informs it at the very least is a little
bit of context, which is so the story is based
on the experience of Megan Cole, who is one of
the I guess creative minds behind this movie. She has
like a story by credit, and she's also a co producer.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
She was like a producer at Disney at the time,
so she was like the one to pitch the story right.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
And so I'll just quote an article or a review
from the La Times entitled life inspires story with some
kick so quote. Prior to joining the Walt Disney Company,
Cole was involved with the nonprofit Teach for America program
that places instructors in under resourced schools across the country. Cole,

(36:23):
who has a master's degree in education from Harvard University,
me vibes with my master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University,
something that I'm.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
Okay, You're like, it's in Boston, basically Harvard Harvard. Okay,
So back to the quote.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
So, Cole, who has a master's degree in education, landed
at Nimit's Middle School in Huntington Park, where she started
the campus's first competitive dance program. Although Got to Kick
It Up was quote unquote inspired by her experiences at Nimt's.
The the movie is said at a fictitious Marshall Middle School.

(37:04):
And then I'll kind of end the quote because it
sort of just recaps the movie, but it puts into
perspective why the movie focuses so much on this right,
like white woman.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
Even so, though like, with all due respect to Megan,
she is she upped herself to having gone to Juilliard,
which is pretty significant creative license because from what I
could see, she was on her high school dance team.
I'm like, well, if Megan went to Juilliard, so did
I and I didn't. But I feel like that even that,

(37:37):
like taking that creative license pretty clearly illustrates that there
are elements of the story that were not adapted one
to one, and so keeping the teacher as a more privileged,
college educated white woman was a very changeable thing, and
it feels pointed that they did not view that particular

(37:58):
element of the story as changeable.

Speaker 4 (38:01):
Yeah, I definitely agree with that.

Speaker 3 (38:04):
So my understanding of I just wanted to, yeah, go
a little more into the context of this, where like
these movie of the week, Like tracking production for movies
of the week is so difficult because I'm like, oh, yeah,
this movie was made in Canada for twelve dollars in
two weeks.

Speaker 4 (38:19):
Yeah, it's hard to trace the history, right, that's.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
Just how they're made. But my understanding is that Megan
Cole pitched the story loosely based on her own experiences,
and then they hired another screenwriter who had written the
Selena movie a couple of years before, Nancy Delo Santos,
who wrote the main teleplay along with two sort of

(38:43):
Disney white guys stalwarts, and that the director Ramon Menendez
also helped with the stories. It was a very like
collaborative effort. But from what I understood, I mean, there
was an interview with Nancy Della Santos a couple of
years ago that makes it seem like she was It

(39:04):
was mainly a collaboration between herself and Megan Cole, where
Nancy went to the middle school where Megan Cole had taught,
She interviewed the former dancers that she'd worked with, and
tried to write a story that revolved around Latina's based
on women that she spoke to, which I think is

(39:27):
great and makes it even more frustrating that it's like
the whole Megan Cole needing to be Megan Cole within
the story is such a sticking point.

Speaker 5 (39:36):
Yeah, I was a little surprised to hear about Nancy's involvement,
and you would think that her involvement would hopefully had
had an influence on maybe steering the story in another direction.
But at the end of the day, I guess.

Speaker 4 (39:50):
Not so much.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
Every time there's a situation like that, I'm like, I
can't imagine how much pushback you would get from a
place like like I'm sure that she wanted to include
less garbage than ends up in the movie. Yeah, or
what helps her? She It was a lovely interview. We
can link it in the description. She's talked specifically about
being proud of getting the cisabdde phrase into the movie

(40:18):
and including some you know, actual cultural history and explaining
what it is, which again was just rare in these
Disney movies of the week. It would usually be like
a dog learns to bake or whatever. Right, yeah, a
house is smart? What about house is smart? Okay, that's
a good one though, so watch your mask?

Speaker 4 (40:38):
Oh my god, good time.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
You would also think that with Nancy's involvement, the Latina
characters would have been a little bit more amplified as
far as their characterization and their interior lives, their backstories,
and we get a little bit of that for some
of the character but I feel like some of the

(41:02):
characterization was just a little undercooked, especially with like and
maybe it's just because America Ferreira is such a star, yeah, now,
and for her to like we never meet her family,
we never see her at home.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
The only thing we know is that she's bad at math,
and you're like, Okay, well that's relatable, but what else.
It's wild because like she's and again it's probably partially
because she became so famous so quickly after this movie,
but she was sort of like one of the only
parts I remembered about this movie, and I was surprised

(41:36):
to rewatch it and see that they Yeah, they've barely
written a character for her.

Speaker 5 (41:40):
Yeah, she's surprisingly one dimensional and like you said, she's
such a star and she commands the screen and you
kind of like want more from her when you're when
you're watching. So yeah, that's a little a little disappointing
for sure. Like the character development in general is very
inequitable across the girls, I would say.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
Right, And it's like at the expense of the Miss
Bartlett character having so much like she has the most
significant arc, she has the most significant backstory. Why Is
that the case when it's a movie about this group
of girls on this dance team at the school.

Speaker 3 (42:21):
Well, let's take it sort of character by character, Yeah,
just so we can talk about what we do learn
about characters. So, honestly, I don't know how, unfortunately, how
much more I have to say about Yolanda's character, because
there really isn't much there. I know I like her,
but I'm like, is it just because I like America Ferrara? Maybe?

Speaker 5 (42:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:45):
The character I feel like there is the we learn
the most about and there's the most to talk about
is Daisy. Yeah. And I know that Mikita, you sort
of spoke on how you felt about Daisy and your
piece a little bit. But I'm curious, Yeah, what do
you make of that character?

Speaker 4 (43:00):
Crazy? She's so interesting to be.

Speaker 5 (43:04):
I mean, I think I think she has a pretty
authentic character arc, you know, like for kind of playing
that typical troubled teen who you know, doesn't maybe have
the most respect for authority and kind of like all
of those tropes, I think she plays it with a
certain degree of heart, So I do like feel for her,

(43:28):
and toward the end when her and Miss Bartlett like
kind of finally see eye to eye, and you know,
you kind of have that like Disney Channel happy ending.

Speaker 4 (43:41):
I am ultimately rooting for her.

Speaker 5 (43:43):
I think there are some parts where the conflict maybe
felt like a little contrived, Like when I was rewatching
it and it was like, oh, she like got up
and danced in class and then got like a month's
attention and that was like the whole reason why the
whole thing started, you know what I mean, And it
was just like this is Yeah, it was a little

(44:07):
like that part was a little like cringe and lappable,
but you know, taking it for what it is, like
being a Disney Channel movie, I think I think she
plays it pretty well, and like I will say, her boyfriend.

Speaker 4 (44:19):
Is another interesting character. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's your response
is pretty much something.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
Like yeah, because I mean I have a huge nostalgic
attachment to this movie. But as I was rewatching it,
I'm like, oh, I basically remember nothing about what happened.
I just remember being like, girls dancing is awesome to me. Yeah,
that was basically my takeaway for sure. But there are
two back to back conflicts that are immediately resolved towards

(44:50):
the end of the movie, where the first one I
thought was very funny because it was like, misterwebsite dot
com comes to missus Bartletts and he's like, this website
is taken off. You gotta join the website. And then
she's like, I don't know, should I join the website?
And then in the next thing, she's like, I'm not

(45:10):
going to join the website. You're like, well, then why
did I have to look at that?

Speaker 5 (45:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (45:15):
What's the point?

Speaker 5 (45:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (45:17):
The second one I think is more interesting because, like
you're Sayingnikita, Daisy has a boyfriend named Chewie, who I'm like,
how old is this? Yeah? I know she is fourteen,
get away from her, but we don't know. So if
we were like he's TV fifteen, which is like human
twenty seven, we don't know. Right, he's old enough to

(45:39):
have a driver's license, so she's really sixteen, So he's
ambiguously older than her. Even if we're leaving that on
the table, I thought he was an interesting character because
I don't know. I feel like, very often you are
shown drop out characters as like this person is bad,
they're bad news, and anyone who drops out of high

(46:02):
school is bad, which is so prescriptive and such bullshit
that I towards the beginning of the story appreciated that
it was like he dropped out of high school, but
he's thriving to the extent that he can. He's got
a job, like he's doing okay. And it was a
sympathetic character who yeah, was generally supportive towards Daisy at first.

(46:23):
But then but well that's the thing that's like a
writing thing to me where he just like, to me,
turned out of nowhere and was like, actually I hate you.

Speaker 5 (46:33):
It did seem out of nowhere. Yeah, super out of
left field. I don't know where that decision came from.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
I think they're like, oh, we need more drama, more drama.

Speaker 4 (46:45):
Yeah, I think that was it.

Speaker 3 (46:47):
But then it like also resolves within ten minutes because
he's like, I hate you. We were supposed to have
a family. And then she correctly is like I'm fourteen
and missus Bartlett I think you know, correctly advises Daisy
to be like, hey, don't worry about what this guy

(47:08):
is telling you if he's an asshole, like this is
a good opportunity for you. Yeah, but that's also loaded
coming from the white savior teacher about a Latin teenage boy,
and so that also felt bizarre. And then it doesn't
matter because he's like, ah, I change my mind, I'm
supportive again. Right Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
My main takeaway from that was he does not deserve
the redemption this story gives him, because he's really cruel
and he's basically just like, don't follow your dreams. All
you should do is spend time with me. This whole
dance thing is getting in the way, and don't do that.
And if you're not willing to compromise and like basically

(47:51):
give up dance for me, then you're out of my life.
And she's like, once again, I'm fourteen. Why this conversation?
And then like a few seays later, he shows up
at the car wash and he's like just kidding, here's yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:09):
You're like, we need a higher forgiveness tax exactly. Yeah,
he needs to put in more effort.

Speaker 5 (48:16):
I don't know if it was supposed to be speaking
to like the fickleness of teenagers and maybe like teenage
boys in general. I don't know, but yeah, it did
seem like kind of like emotional whiplash.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
There, Oh sure, yeah, And I mean, ultimately, I it
was frustrating because again the age thing was throwing me,
but I generally liked Chewie, and it seems like they
were like not bad for each other, like or what
teenage relationship is good? Really like they famously don't go well,

(48:49):
but like it didn't seem like they were bad for
each other, And it seemed like the story had a
lot of love for him and had an interest in
like characterizing him to be like a person, and then
it just felt like the script turned on him. It
didn't feel like that was foreshadowed in any way. Definitely not.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
But anyways, Daisy, Daisy Well to bring it all back,
is what we know mostly about her.

Speaker 3 (49:14):
I guess you know.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
She's the character who butts heads most with Miss Bartlett.
She's also her friendship with Yolanda seems to be the
strongest friendship in the movie, even though we kind of
know nothing about it because again we know nothing about Yolanda,
but at least like the script a lot space to
establish them as close friends. But aside from that, the

(49:36):
main thing we understand or learn about Daisy's interior life
is her relationship with her boyfriend, which like fine, but
because especially we get other characters and more information about
their home lives and you know, we meet their families
or we have a sense of like what their interests

(49:57):
are outside of dance and.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
Stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
But it just felt a little, i don't know, just
a very easy choice to make. For like, the character
who's essentially the protagonist in Daisy is the one who's like, well,
of course she has a hetero boyfriend.

Speaker 5 (50:16):
Yeah, it kind of seems like most of her story,
outside of the central conflict between her and Miss Bartlett,
is essentially about her being in a relationship, you know,
with this interesting, chewy character. So I do think that
was a missed opportunity, and again for Yoli as well.
I don't really understand why certain characters got maybe a

(50:41):
more holistic sort of treatment in terms of like painting
their family life and at least like putting faces to
names in terms of who the parents were, whose siblings were,
and things like that. It would have been nice to
have had that for all the girls totally.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
Well, that's part of what it seems like. Part of
the reason this even made it to air, which also
speaks to the dearth of Latin stories that were out
there at this time, was because a white lady who
already worked at Disney happened to have this experience, and
so she becomes so baked into the story. But like,
as I was rewatching it and also just reflecting on

(51:17):
what I remembered about the movie, which was teenage girls
dancing and that was my favorite thing in the world. Yeah,
I did not remember how integral the coach character was,
and I wish, I guess it was closer to my
warped childhood memory, which was like, this is a movie
about a group of Latina middle schoolers who form a

(51:42):
dance team and win. And I was surprised and kind
of bummed out that the movie did not center around
their relationships with each other as much, which I feel like,
kind of if we're talking dcom expanded universe, I think
I was maybe projecting some Cheetah Girls onto Yeah, try

(52:03):
to kick it up, because that movie, which we've talked
about on the show and has many of its own faults,
but does generally focus on how the girls relate to
each other and they're in a personal conflict, and that
doesn't exist in this movie as much as I thought
it would, which sucks because it's like, I wish that
the central relationship in this movie was between Daisy and Yoli,

(52:28):
Like that makes more sense than having Daisy's tether be
this lady who flunked out of Julia art, like who cares,
right right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
The friendship between Daisy Andoli is the most the one
we know exists, but again we don't know anything about
it except that they seem to bond over their mutual
interest in dance. There is conflict between Daisy and Esmrelda
to some degree. Where as Morelda she isn't quite so

(53:07):
challenging of authority as Daisy is, and so she's like,
come on, let's dance and let's follow the rules. Yes,
And Daisy thinks she's like kind of a nerd based
on her choice and pass.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
That felt pretty like classic like contrived introvert versus extrovert.

Speaker 5 (53:24):
Yeah, like almost like as Marelda being sort of like
the goody two shoes and Daisy is like the non
goodie two shoes basically, you know, doesn't necessarily listen to
authority and wants to kind of like do her own
thing and but agree, And that also felt contrived. I
think like one of the first lines in the film

(53:45):
is like as Morelda is trying to share like some
music that she wants, like the girls to dance too,
and I think Daisy's like I have the moves, I
pick the tunes or something like that.

Speaker 4 (53:58):
You know, And it's just like, so that's so two
thousands of movies.

Speaker 5 (54:02):
Oh, two thousands, like very like bring it on esque dialogue? Yes, yeah,
and you're just like, wait, why is this like suddenly contentious?
Like aren't you guys friends? So that was also kind
of weird at times, and it kind of.

Speaker 3 (54:18):
Goes under explored too, because it's like that that conflict
comes up a few times, but you never really know
where it comes from, and then it seems like it
just sort of dissipates over time, which can't be true
of conflict between teenagers. But it's like it's a movie
of the week. I need more information, I need more info.

Speaker 4 (54:35):
Yeah for sure.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
Yeah, Daisy says something like get your girly music out
of here. It's like, first of all, what's almost girly music?

Speaker 3 (54:45):
To find that?

Speaker 4 (54:45):
Yeah? What is early music?

Speaker 3 (54:47):
What mean by that?

Speaker 2 (54:49):
So? Esmerelda is one of the characters whose home life
we do see. We meet both of her parents. They
seem loving and supportive, although they expect a lo lot
of as Maralda, especially as far as like providing some
care for her younger brother. They appear to both be
like working parents who probably have pretty demanding work schedules,

(55:11):
so they rely on as Marealda. And I like that
there's a scene where she like sticks up for herself,
like you expect so much from me, why can't I
have this one thing for myself?

Speaker 5 (55:20):
And I was like, yeah, yeah, I love that scene too,
and I was so I remember being angry when I
rewatched that scene if it's the same scene that I think,
because I think it's after they like placed at a competition,
like they did really.

Speaker 4 (55:36):
Well, Yeah they did so well, Yeah, they did really well.

Speaker 5 (55:39):
And then she comes home and her parents are like,
didn't you know we're supposed to have.

Speaker 4 (55:42):
Dinner at your aunts and where are you?

Speaker 5 (55:45):
You're supposed to babysit your brother and you're supposed to
cook your brother's dinner and like all.

Speaker 4 (55:49):
This stuff, and I'm just like, she's fourteen, Like you
guys are the parents like relax, relax.

Speaker 5 (55:56):
Like But I will say that part feels authentic and
that it at least depicted a reality, you know, for
a lot of Latine LATINX families, you know, starting young,
if you're in a multi generational home, especially eldest daughters
will take on a lot of that emotional labor and

(56:19):
just actual labor in the household.

Speaker 4 (56:22):
So that was one thing I think they got right.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
Yeah, And that could have been explored a little bit definitely,
Oh yeah, for sure. And then the other character whose
home life we see is Alyssa. She has the like
extremely supportive parents who are showing up to all the competitions.

Speaker 3 (56:39):
Yeah. Well, and I felt like it was like partially
implied because we get two families that are characterized and
one or two working class parents and the other seem
to be middle class to upper middle class parents, and
those are the parents that we see as being actively supportive.
It just felt like pointed in a way that felt
a little icky. I don't know what did everyone think

(56:59):
about it?

Speaker 4 (57:00):
That it's almost like too easy or like too obvious.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Right, Yeah, the implications the optics of it are like
just yeah, just an easy stereotypical chance to make without examining, like, well,
if working class parents appear less supportive, why would that be.
They have to work usually more hours at more often

(57:26):
physically demanding jobs, all of the context is not really
explored in this particular instance, although I think the movie
handles class in otherwise like pretty interesting ways, because it
does acknowledge that this is a school in a lower
income neighborhood. There's references to like some students dropping out,

(57:49):
maybe at a higher rate than wealthier schools nearby. There's
like a possibility that some students may join gangs. I
think the principal that he like cites that as a
reason that Miss Bartlett should coach the dance team because
it'll help keep kids out of gangs.

Speaker 3 (58:07):
But that also and then they're like white savior coded
to me like I. I also, I did not really
like how the principal spoke about his own students and
to his own students at a number of points in
the movie, where like when we meet him, he is
telling a black teenager to pull his pants up, which

(58:29):
if there is not a more reductive two thousand and
two thing to be happening in a movie. And then
I struggled with the principle because it just seems like
I believe that he cared about his students, but there
were but the way that he spoke about them behind
their backs felt like it really like it was very

(58:49):
very harsh and reductive at a number of points. I
didn't love him.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
Yeah, he also loves the military or like brought his
military brackground and he.

Speaker 4 (59:02):
Was like in the military.

Speaker 5 (59:03):
Yeah, that was definitely like I guess the implication that
let these types of students need or require this kind
of like strict militaristic style like form of authority.

Speaker 4 (59:20):
I guess in order to be you know, led in
the right direction or whatever.

Speaker 5 (59:25):
Like the tough love kind of thing is like that
sort of trope, like that's what's required.

Speaker 4 (59:31):
And it's like, well, or you could just like not
be an asshole.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
Basically exactly high school principles I feel like are all
cut of the same cloth to some extent where it's like, yeah,
you have to be sort of hardened to the world
if your job is being torn to shreds by teenagers
every day. Very true, I wouldn't survive a day. But
I feel like it's frustrating because we see him be

(59:57):
very harsh to the students to their face. It would
have been nice to see, I guess him have like
a gentle moment with a student, but we really only
see him have gentle moments with missus Bartlett for some reason,
and you're like, again, miss Bartlett is just like in
the way, in this weird way where it's like, oh,
let me show my soft side to this random lady

(01:00:19):
with no teaching experience, which just her dot com company failed.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
How does she go from having a background in dance
to then being some executive at a tech company or
like an internet startup or something, and then to a
biology teacher? Like what is that trajectory?

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
I mean, I think that that is probably an attempt
to comment on, like on the Teach for America culture
where it's like that program does bring in teachers that
don't have a lot of experience. But again, it's just
like the fact that we know about two of this
lady's failed careers indicators that we know too much about her.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Yeah, and then we like never learn anything about Yoli
except that she's not good.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
Why do I know about all three of miss Bartlett's
career and nothing about Yoli? Like it's really really unbalanced.

Speaker 5 (01:01:18):
I like what you just said about her just kind
of being in the way of the story, Like that's
what it feels like when I watched it. There would
be a moment of like the girls being on screen
or them with their families or something, and you're kind
of just wanting a little bit more.

Speaker 4 (01:01:34):
And then it's like back to Miss Bartlett and.

Speaker 5 (01:01:38):
Like her the fact that she was a Juilliard for
two weeks, and it's like, okay, I mean cool.

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
She's crying. I just was like, I feel bad. I
did laugh when she cried because you're just like, just like,
get over it. Not that I get it. Trauma can
look like anything, but this one where's pretty silly. One
of my favorite moments in the movie that made me
laugh because it was just so out of nowhere in
Hoki was when Chewy and Daisy broke into the school

(01:02:10):
on a weekend to like, I don't know, be mischievous
or whatever they were. Yeah, she picks up her backpack. Yes,
they broke into the school, and then she's like, wait,
what's that music? And Miss Bartlet's like flash dancing in
the gym by herself, and Chewiy's like, wow, she's hot,

(01:02:30):
Like what am I watching? Why is this on my
television screen? And then she finishes dancing and then she
starts crying and you're like, oh god, we're gonna have
to learn about what I don't care.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Something that really stood out to me was it's miss
Bartlett's idea for these girls to incorporate dance from their cultures,
their cultural backgrounds, Like why wouldn't that be the girl's idea?
And then the way miss Barlett frames it too, is like,

(01:03:11):
let's do something really innovative by taking advantage of your background,
which is such a white perspective to be like, of
course you think that incorporating existing dance styles from other
cultures would be innovative innovative.

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
Well, this is coming from the same woman that on
the first day of auditions was like, I will not
allow any tardiness for any reason, even if you're Esmerelda
and you have responsibility to your brother. Also, no dark
lipstick and no jewelry and no just like all of
these very pointed sounding comments to be like, I want
you to be a Juilliard ballerina. Yeah, you're out. And

(01:03:48):
I feel like it was at least presented in a
way that was like, oh, she means business, where it's like, no,
I think she's being She's saying a lot of fucked
up things.

Speaker 5 (01:03:58):
Yeah, Like her subconscious bias was definitely showing it was like, oh,
we're trying to paint the dancers like they can only
be dancers if they look and act a certain way.
And I do think obviously, you know, thinking about sort
of the stereotypical white, blonde haired you know, Juliard Ballerina.

(01:04:19):
And then to your point, those comments about like because
I think Esmerelda was like walking in lane and she's like,
I'm sorry, I had to you know, like pick up
my brother after school or something like that, and she's
just like, tardiness will not be accepted, and it's like
it's your first.

Speaker 4 (01:04:34):
Day, Like can we be a little like realistic here?

Speaker 5 (01:04:38):
Yeah, And then the remark about the dark lipstick and
like the long nails, and you know, like obviously it's
like those are signifiers for a lot of Latinas in
relation to how they do, you know, their beauty routine
and things like that. So that was it's just like, yeah,
definitely some like coded subtexts there. Whether that was intentional

(01:05:01):
or not, you know what I mean, but it was
definitely there, and.

Speaker 3 (01:05:05):
If it was intentional, it should have been commented on
like as a part of like if we absolutely have
to be invested in this woman's arc, unlearning her racist
biases should be a part of that, but instead, the
closest you get is another moment where I laughed, where
it's like a serious scene between Missus Bartlett and Daisy,

(01:05:28):
where Daisy teaches her the phrase cisipee and.

Speaker 4 (01:05:31):
Oh yeah, she goes see see.

Speaker 3 (01:05:35):
You're like, oh my god, Missus Bartlett sucks so much,
she's so annoying. Oh my god. Yeah, I little standard.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
That reminds me of another point you made in your
Refinery twenty nine piece Mekita is the lack of diversity
across the spectrum of Latini Dad where the characters for
the part at a school that seems to be predominantly
LATINX Latine students. They're at least on the dance team,

(01:06:11):
there're no, for example, Afro Latina students. We're also not
sure what nationality any of these girls are. We know
that the other girl in the main cast, who is
introduced later, so she has even less characterization than the
other ones. But madrisoul I saw I want to say

(01:06:33):
she is an immigrant from what country we don't know.
And then the other thing with her is that there
are several references to her English not being perfect which
again just feels like another easy stereotypical choice, where of course,
like when a language is not someone's first language, there
will be challenges often for that speaker, but to like

(01:06:57):
constantly draw attention to her not being anti speaker just
felt a little and.

Speaker 3 (01:07:02):
Is because like that's the only thing we really know
about her, like exactly, yeah, English not being her first
language is sort of this clunky movie of the week
way of conveying plot information, and that is like how
it goes at the climax of the movie where it's
like that is not not quite the joke, but like
that is the function of her character is to communicate

(01:07:24):
information to other people, and we know nothing about her.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
Other than that, yeah, right, And then they're like are
you sure you even understood that correctly?

Speaker 4 (01:07:31):
Yeah, and she's like.

Speaker 3 (01:07:33):
Yes, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:07:34):
It's like it's probably something that could have been touched
on like once and then not right, it doesn't need
to keep Like there was definitely a lot of missed
opportunities for just again more character development and something else
that would be an.

Speaker 4 (01:07:48):
Actual like marker of her personality or her fact.

Speaker 5 (01:07:52):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:07:52):
It's just it was very one dimensional.

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
I will say she is the one who says like, oh,
it's like my grandmother always says see sepe, which becomes
the team yahatto. So that's her contribution. But aside from that,
we don't know really anything about her. But back to
just the lack of diversity, and there are no cultural
specifics for the girls who seem to be mostly well,

(01:08:17):
I don't want to make any assumptions. I would hazard
a guess that at least some of them are first generation,
maybe some of their second generation or more, but you know,
it would stand a reason that they would maybe mention like, oh,
like you know, this is my specific cultural heritage, and
maybe they didn't do that in the movie to just
try to seem more inclusive, like we don't want to

(01:08:38):
leave anybody. Yeah, so we're not going to be specific.

Speaker 3 (01:08:41):
But it also gets like the monolith syndrome.

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
Right exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:08:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
So, and then there's not much body diversity either in
the cast where I mean America Ferrera, especially during this
time in her career, was one of the few young
fat actors at this time, and this is something that
a lot of movies she was in at this time
calls a lot of attention to, or just a lot

(01:09:08):
of the media because we.

Speaker 3 (01:09:09):
Covered row women have curves last year.

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
Yeah, yeah, I don't hate the way body size is
handled in that movie. But then you've got things like
Ugly Betty and like Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, which
like so much attention is called to her size and
how she's bigger than the other girls around. I like
that this movie just allows her to be fat without

(01:09:32):
calling attention to it. Although the first thing you see
her doing in the movie is buying a candy bar,
which again just like feels like a oh well, of course, yeah,
fat girl is gonna buy candy and then that's not
something we see any of the other girls doing.

Speaker 3 (01:09:48):
But I was also like, yeah, let her have her snack.
Jesus fucking Christ. I hate that a girl eating a
candy bar is a political statement. It's yeah, it's so frustrating.

Speaker 5 (01:10:01):
Well and even even worse it is like in that scene,
I think she dropped it and then somebody stomped on it,
and then like Daisy k cut you meet Daisy and
she tells the bully to back off or whatever, and
it's just I don't know, like you said, like, can
we just let her have her candy bar? And like
not make it into a thing because I think the

(01:10:22):
bully said something like, oh is this part of your diet,
like making.

Speaker 4 (01:10:26):
You know, like some snide remark and true, and that
was unfortunate.

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
Yeah, yeah, I think we talked about this in the
Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants episode forever ago. But yeah, like,
because America Ferro was one of the only teen actors
that wasn't extremely skinny at this time, it felt like
she had to take on so much like not she
couldn't just be an actor because she also had to

(01:10:51):
be a signifier of body type that was supposedly not allowed,
but now we're allowing it. But just for this one girl.
And yeah, I mean and unfortunately I think that that
there is still a lot of that around today. But
it's just I don't know. I love America Fraras so much.
I just like wish are the best in every damn thing.

(01:11:13):
She had to take a lot of shit so much.
Oh yeah for existing.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
I also wonder if because again because outside of her character,
there's no body diversity. Yeah, and I almost wonder because
she's the only fat character, is that why her characterization
seems to be scaled back? Wouldn't surprise me, it's happened
before in many movies where the one fat character in

(01:11:41):
the movie has little to no characterization.

Speaker 4 (01:11:45):
I think that's a really good point, very possible.

Speaker 3 (01:11:48):
It's so bizarre because it's like this movie is so
I think because of the genre, it is, like it's
pretty vague in most ways other than you know that
most of the characters are Latina. But like I mean,
speaking to your point, Makita, and in your piece, like
you would have to change very very little about Missus
Bartlett for her to not be a white character. I

(01:12:11):
think that there are elements that it's like, oh, this
is cooked into who this character is, but it would
have been easy to scale back. And I think that
that is like kind of what can be potentially freeing
about movies like this is that they're like not written
in a hyper specific way, and so you can cast anybody,
and like who you cast makes a difference. But I

(01:12:31):
think in certain roles, yeah, like in Joli's role and
in Missus Bartlett's role in particular, like they sort of
played to stereotypes and they played to easy quote unquote
marketable choices versus acting in the best interest of the characters.
For sure.

Speaker 5 (01:12:51):
Yeah, Yeah, I would have loved to have seen a
Latina and Afro latina play Miss Bartlett.

Speaker 4 (01:12:58):
I think that could have been really cool.

Speaker 3 (01:13:00):
But oh wow, absolutely.

Speaker 4 (01:13:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
Well, now they just need to remake the movie.

Speaker 4 (01:13:06):
Yeah, we need.

Speaker 3 (01:13:12):
Any other thoughts before we sort of wrap things up.

Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
My last little thing was, I think it's great that
this is a predominantly female, femme cast, but I also
think it would have been cool to see some boys
on the dance team as well, especially in this context.
Dance is considered to be like a more feminine activity,
especially because they seem to and maybe this is a thing,

(01:13:36):
Maybe this is just my ignorance about what certain high
school extracurricular activities are actually like. But they're a dance team,
but they're wearing cheerleading uniforms, and like, Okay, that's just
my ignorance. Okay, anyway, so in any case, this would

(01:13:57):
have been considered, I think, a more feminine extracurricular activity.
But I think it would have been cool to see
some boys like doing dance and being on the dance
team to kind of challenge those genderal expectations. But I
don't think that like takes away from the movie and Again,
I appreciate that this is largely a like all femme cast,

(01:14:21):
but that's it for me. Yeah, any other thoughts nothing
for me.

Speaker 4 (01:14:25):
I mean, I think it's still like I feel a
little nostalgic for it, and.

Speaker 5 (01:14:30):
I do think like we're watching these with the gift
of hindsight, and you know, it's so easy to say
we would do this and this differently. But you know,
I appreciate that it was at least like a step
in the right direction in terms of, you know, broadening
representation on the Disney Channel, which like was such a
seminole like pop culture thing for so many like millennials

(01:14:50):
in particular. So I appreciate it for what it was
at the time for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:14:55):
Yeah. Yeah, we talk about this a lot on the
show of like Stepping Stone movies of like this movie's
success you can hope because it was so I mean,
clearly we're talking about it over twenty years later, like
it is a well remembered movie. Yeah, this movie led
to better and more thoughtful representation, and so in that way,

(01:15:18):
I feel like, yeah, we talked about this in movies
we grew up with all the time, where it's like, well, no,
it's you know, it is in no way perfect, but
because there were young people who wanted to make stuff
watching it, it did have an important role and make
a difference, which is kind of you know, in some
ways the bust you can hope for.

Speaker 2 (01:15:37):
Yeah, absolutely indeed, And it handily passes the Bechdel test.

Speaker 3 (01:15:43):
Yes, almost all the time, except when it's like the
principle or chewy. I think those are really the only
times where it isn't a discussion about something other than
a man.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
Oh yeah, they're talking about dance. They're talking about Julia
aren't bad at math, bad, etc. You know, all the
major topics of conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:16:04):
Look, say what you will. I was talking a lot
about being bad at math in high school. It consumed
a lot of my time.

Speaker 2 (01:16:10):
Not me, I was talking about being good at math. Well, no,
I'm kidding. I don't know what I was talking about
in high school so long ago. Anyway, Yeah, it passes
a lot, although I again I wish there was just
more meaningful relationships established among the girls on the dance team.

(01:16:33):
But it does still pass a lot. But as far
as the perfect metric, which is of course our nipple scale,
where we rate the movie on a scale of zero
to five nipples. Examining it through an intersectional feminist lens,
I'll be I'm between like a two and a half

(01:16:54):
and a three. I do appreciate that the movie is
in essence about a group of Latina dancers in middle school,
even though they're in ninth grade, which is again maybe
another thing that I'm misunderstanding that's confusing. Really, I was like,

(01:17:17):
middle school ends at eighth grade. I thought ninth grade.

Speaker 3 (01:17:20):
I think it changes by region though, because I think
in some places it's like it could be five to eight,
it could be six to nine. Like, I'm pretty sure
it varies.

Speaker 5 (01:17:31):
I will say when I was like going through middle
school high school, I'm originally from like Nebraska, so like
there were some high schools that.

Speaker 4 (01:17:40):
Were ten through twelve, oh okay, and then there were
a couple of.

Speaker 5 (01:17:43):
Middle schools that I think were six through nine if
I remember correctly, But I think at some point it
all kind of shifted again, and then the traditional middle
grades were six through eight. Right.

Speaker 3 (01:17:57):
Well, yeah, when I think about like the range of
dates that my public school went through, You're like, why
it actually makes more sense to do it in like
four year increments, because I did, like K through six,
seven and eight and nine through twelve, and why was that?
We'll never know.

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
Anyways, another thing we don't have the answer to any case. Yeah,
this is some antics that I shouldn't get hung up on.
But I appreciate that it's about this group of Latina
girls at this school that addresses class in you know,
could have been handled more thoughtfully, but I appreciate that
that's a component of it. We didn't really talk about

(01:18:37):
the you know, Daisy getting an offer to apply to
this like prestigious performing arts school and like assuming that
she wouldn't be able to go because her mother couldn't
afford it, and she's like hesitant because she thinks, she
assumes it'll be a bunch of like rich white kids
at this school. So, you know, it does some things

(01:18:58):
to tackle class It does some things to sort of
characterize some of the girls, but again because it is
such a focus on the arc and the backstory of
the Miss Bartlett character, especially where like she's a white

(01:19:18):
woman from seemingly a more upper middle class background coming
in to be this like white savior figure for these
kids who might be on a bad path, so she
has to reach them through dance, and it's like, well,
they already want to do dance, Like.

Speaker 3 (01:19:38):
Yeah, you're actively preventing them at many points in the story.

Speaker 2 (01:19:42):
Yeah, and doing it you keep like trying to bail
or like holding back they and they're constantly like it
seems like you're holding out on us, like can you
be more present and like quit betraying us all the time.
And she's just like huh what anyway. So I think
a lot of the choices feel very early two thousand's era.

(01:20:03):
A lot of things were not challenged that would I
think be challenged were the movie to come out today. Yeah,
The lack of characterization for some of the girls, the
lack of specificity I think is potentially harmful, lack of
diversity among the Latina students, things like that. With all

(01:20:26):
that in mind, so yeah, I think I'll give it
two and a half nipples, sort of, let's split down
the middle, and I will give one to America forra
because she's just so wonderful. I'll give one to Camille Guati,
that's who plays Daisy, and I'll give my half nipple

(01:20:47):
to Marsol, who I wish we knew anything else about.

Speaker 4 (01:20:53):
I know any more. Information would have been.

Speaker 3 (01:20:56):
Yeah, I'm going to go three. I kind of even
want to go a little bit higher, but I think
that that might be nostalgic. I'll go three, because, like
we've been talking about, I mean, this movie has many shortcomings.
Its lack of diversity within the Latin community, its lack
of a specificity, the fact that this movie should absolutely

(01:21:19):
be about the relationship of girls on the team and
not girls and Juilliard flops like that will never stop
being annoying to me. I totally forgot about it, and
now I will never forget about it. Yeah, I think that, like,
this movie definitely fumbles in a lot of ways, and
also I want to hold space for it as a

(01:21:40):
very very unique movie to its time, at least in
I mean in the like millennial movie.

Speaker 2 (01:21:48):
Especially targeted toward like young tweens or just young people
in general.

Speaker 3 (01:21:54):
Absolutely, it's almost and it shouldn't be this way, but
it is almost completely singular in terms of like a
piece of mass media designed for tween girls that is
theoretically exclusively about Latina teens. And I appreciate that it
had such a big impact and on the rewatch, I
wish that because it had such a big impact. It
had handled a number of issues better. Miss Bartlet's a flop.

(01:22:19):
I wish that we could just sort of eject her
out of the movie or change significant things about her.
There were a number of girls on the team I
wanted to know more about and didn't. And yeah, the
lack of cultural specificity felt very I don't know, indicative
of what Disney Channel was about at the time, even
when they were producing movies like Gotta Kick It Up,

(01:22:40):
which is that it seems like the undercurrent for Disney then,
and you could also still say Disney now is that
they are assuming whiteness of their audience, and so they're
assuming that you wouldn't care about more cultural specificity, which
first of all is not true and second of all
is deeply white centric and reductive. I'm going to give

(01:23:05):
this maybe three nipples on nostalgia points, and because I
do genuinely believe it led to better representation down the line,
because it was so successful. I'm going to give one
nipple to Daisy, She's the best. I'm going to give
a second nipple to Yoli because in my memory she
was the protagonist and turned out not to be. And

(01:23:29):
my final nipple. I'm going to give to a scene
that made me laugh so much, the scene where the
website guy comes to Missus house and says his website
is huge gossip and news for teens. You could go
to London, and I was like, what a speech. What

(01:23:50):
a sick man who immediately doesn't matter? And those are
my yeah, my nipples, Makita, what do you rate this?

Speaker 4 (01:24:00):
I will give it.

Speaker 5 (01:24:02):
I think two nipples, and I think they are mostly
rooted in nostalgia, just for like, and I started off
my piece very nostalgically, like just writing about like, you know,
it's two thousand and two, like you're getting home after school,
sitting on an inflatable like me on chair, you know,

(01:24:26):
eating tricks, yogurt or whatever, and like this is just
like these movies are just so associated with that specific
time in my life, simpler times arguably, so I think
there's like, you know, just you miss.

Speaker 4 (01:24:41):
Kind of that feeling.

Speaker 5 (01:24:42):
But in terms of actual representation, it is pretty lacking,
I think it. To me, it sort of falls into
this category of like checklist representation.

Speaker 4 (01:24:56):
Right, It's like, Okay, we have some.

Speaker 5 (01:25:00):
Vaguely Latina characters, We're not really going to go beyond
the surface level.

Speaker 4 (01:25:07):
We like have some glimpses into their whole.

Speaker 5 (01:25:12):
Life, but obviously, as we've discussed, it's not super substantive.
There's you know, one character who has who speaks English
as a second language, and there we go, like there's
the movie guys, and I think it's sort of hoping,
you know, as we've said, just hoping for a.

Speaker 4 (01:25:28):
Little bit more and then it never just arrives.

Speaker 5 (01:25:32):
I think it is definitely a product of the time,
and unfortunately we just we meaning you know, latinas I'm
multicultural myself, you know, that was something that I didn't
see represented in media really at all, which is a
conversation for another day. But like I think it was
just like you're just so hungry for anything, so you

(01:25:56):
you're happy with what you get, right, So all that
being said, yeah, you're happy with the crumbs exactly, which
is like so sad. But I know, the two solid stars,
mostly for nostalgia's sake, I will give one to America Ferrera,
because America Ferrera, and then I think I'll give one
to actually Nancy de los Santos because you know, a

(01:26:18):
fan of her work, especially Selena, and it's cool that
she was involved in the project.

Speaker 2 (01:26:26):
I was surprised to learn that this movie was co
written and directed both by Latine filmmakers.

Speaker 3 (01:26:34):
Yeah, and like already successful, Like we're not even catching
them at the beginning of their career. Stand and Deliver
came out fifteen years earlier. Yeah, and I mean it's
cool and it feels like there is like a creative
commitment because you wouldn't just you wouldn't simply make a
d com if you were already very successful, unless you
had a real love and investment in the material. Yeah,

(01:26:58):
so I think it's amazing. Yeah, Maikita, thank you so
much for joining us. This was so much fun.

Speaker 4 (01:27:04):
Thank you. This was great.

Speaker 3 (01:27:06):
Where can we find your work? Work? Can we find
you on social media? How do we keep up with you?

Speaker 5 (01:27:11):
You can keep up with me primarily on Instagram these days.
I'm at Rivas Raves. I am also.

Speaker 4 (01:27:19):
Contributing, as I mentioned Refinery twenty nine.

Speaker 5 (01:27:21):
So almos eater DC for my like Washington, DC folks,
because I'm based in DC, so I cover the food
scene here. But I you know, just I would say
follow me on Instagram because that's usually where I try
to share some of my work.

Speaker 3 (01:27:36):
Amazing. Yeah, thanks again for being here. Come back anytime.

Speaker 4 (01:27:39):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 5 (01:27:40):
Yes, I'm happy to talk early two thousands movies literally
any moment of any day.

Speaker 4 (01:27:47):
So let me know.

Speaker 3 (01:27:48):
Just say the word, maybe we'll hear.

Speaker 4 (01:27:51):
I can't wait.

Speaker 2 (01:27:52):
And then you can follow us on mostly Instagram these
days as well at Bechdelcast, as well as subscribe to
our pagon aka Matreon at patreon dot com slash bectyl Cast,
where you can get two bonus episodes every single month,
plus access to our back catalog of well over one
hundred bonus episodes, all for five dollars a month.

Speaker 3 (01:28:16):
And you can get our merch over at teapublic dot
com slash the Bechdel Cast get your weird Halloween merch.
Oh beetlejuice declaring definitively, do you think beetlejuice comes? Wet
scabs or dry scabs? One of our grossest ideas and
we turned it into.

Speaker 2 (01:28:34):
Burdis And now is the time to buy it?

Speaker 3 (01:28:38):
Now the time to and now's where you stand in
the Infinity war, that is what does beetlejuice come?

Speaker 1 (01:28:45):
Well?

Speaker 3 (01:28:45):
Well, good note to end on.

Speaker 2 (01:28:47):
I should we all get together and learn a dance routine.
I'm down twin regionals.

Speaker 4 (01:28:55):
Should we all learn as bartlets? Dance routine that caused
her to cry?

Speaker 3 (01:29:01):
I was like, I only will do a dance routine
if I am allowed to weep in gymnasium afterwards. That's
where I'm most comfortable. So yes, I'm sorry, let's do it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:12):
Bye bye

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