Gremlins with Moujan Zolfaghari

Rule #1: Caitlin and Jamie hate the patriarchy. Rule #2: Watch Gremlins with a critical lens. Rule #3: Special guest Moujan Zolfaghari can do whatever she wants at any time of day!

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?
Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and best start
changing it with the bec Del Cast. Hello, welcome to
the Vital Cast. Hi. Why who is Jamie London? My
name is Cala Darante. This is our show. This is

(00:22):
our podcast about the betrayal of women. Did a betrayal? Betrayal?
Which I think it's not too far off. I'm depending
on the movie. Most movies betray Usually it's about the
betrayal of women. Yes, um, anyways, this is the show.
It's if you're your first time listening. Hey, welcome, Welcome.
If you like Gremlin's the movie we're discussing today, probably

(00:46):
sorry and yes, because we will be talking about both
the portrayal of women in the movie and the betrayal
of women in the movie. T FW, your dad Bryce's
neck being Santa problem. We can all that was nuts.
That was a twist I totally forgot about. Well, we'll
talk about it anyways. Uh So, we critique the portrayal

(01:08):
of women in famous movies using the Bechdel test as
a jumping off point, the Bechdel Test being a media
metric created by Alison Bechdel in the nine eighties. Uh
and uh, Caitlin, what is it? I'm fucking dummy? I
forget Well, first of all, Jamie, you're not a dummy.
But I'm happy to remind you that the Bechdel test

(01:31):
requires that a movie have two named, female identifying characters
in the narrative. They must speak to each other, and
that conversation cannot be about men. Wouldn't you know? A
lot of movies do not pass this very simple test
is a very low bar shocks I know. Well, that

(01:53):
was that we're in the We're in the holiday episodes? Now, yes,
we certainly are. When are we gonna do a Crazy Nights?
You know what? We should? Because there are very few
movies about Hanakah or any other which is going to
be one of my talking points. But there's so many
Christmas movies and so few holiday movies that are representative

(02:15):
of any other major religion. I genuinely I think we
should do. I love A Crazy Nights. I've never seen it.
There's so much wrong with it. I mean, it's it's
kind of a nightmare, but you know, it is it's
nicer to have to see Adam Sandler as a cartoon.
Oh sure, yeah. Anyway, so well, that didn't pass the
test because we talked about Adam. That we did talk

(02:39):
about Hanakah, and that always passes the Bechtel test. But no,
I don't know. Basically, because every major religion focuses on
a patriarchy, I would say that talking about religion in
general does not actually pass the Bechdel test. But any who,
here we are the podcasts, this is it. Let's should
we just introduce our guests. Yeah, I'm psyched to have her.

(03:01):
Oh my gosh, our guest today. She is a TV writer,
a comedian, and the co creator and a voice on
the podcast Mission to Zix Mujan sol Fagari. Happy to
be here. Hi, that went too high, just just like
a gremlin. Oh I can I can? I just realize

(03:23):
I'm really while watching it. But I can do a
really good giz really born to do gizmo. You should
have been cast instead of Howie Mandel. Wait what are ope? Wow? What?
I don't even know where else where to fall on that?
That is good? Wow girl, wow? Hire this woman to

(03:54):
be your voice actor on anything? Um? So what is
your history relationship with the movie. So I've never seen
it before, but I remember it was a choice I
recalled as a kid being around, Like I think I
was alive when Grandlin's Too came out because this came out,
came out Believe Too, and I just didn't want to

(04:18):
because it looked really scary and I was a really
scared kid. In fact, I think around that time when
Gremlin's Two came out, it was like going to be
at a birthday party. We're going to watch it, but
we were also watching Brave Little Toaster and that freaked
me out, and so I called home and like I
told my mom, I wanted to go home, and that
was the movie that got me away from sleepovers. But

(04:38):
I couldn't tell my mom because I have I'm from
an immigrant Persian family, and my mom did not approve
or understand the idea of sleepovers, like why would you
send your kid to be at a person's house or
adults drink beer and they have dogs and so like,
and so I couldn't say it was because they were
showing me scary movies. I think I was like, I
just like have a stomach ache or something. Put the

(05:00):
blame on myself so I could continue this sinful practice
of sleepovers. I chose not to see it. So I
saw it for the first time when you told me
this is a good movie to watch, yeah, or a
movie to watch. Yes, it's just been a it's been
a popular request for three holiday seasons running now, and

(05:20):
so we buckled and uh, yeah, Caitlyn, what's your history
with the story? Well, I did not see it for
the first time until fairly recently as well. I think
I probably watched it maybe three years ago. Like, this
is not a movie. This is the type of movie
that I probably would have grown up with under other circumstances,
because like I would place this in the camp of

(05:41):
like Back to the Future, the Goonies, like Indiana Jones,
like that camp of, just like iconic eighties movies. But
for some reason, this just wasn't in my household, so
I didn't grow up with it. I have no sentimental
attachment to it. It's fun, but people love this movie
and I'm just not quite there with it. But yeah,
so I saw it for the first time a couple

(06:02):
of years ago. I still have not seen Gremlins too,
but I have seen The Key and Peel sketch about
the pitch meeting for Grandlins too, and I love that
sketch so much. It has to be better than the
actual Gremlins to movie, So I'm just going to keep
watching that over and over again. Yeah, what's your history?
Jamie also didn't grow up with it. I think my

(06:23):
mom's reasoning at the time was that it was too violent,
and watching it now, I'm like, not extremely. It was
PG when it came out, but that was before before
there was I think I think this was one of
two movies that ushered in the PG thirteen rating, This
and Doom because there are many murders and the Gremlins,

(06:45):
I mean including those of the Grandlins. There's human murders
and then a lot of vicious the gremlins die, and
it's very the microwave thing. I was like, if I
saw the microwave scene when I was a kid, I
would have been traumatized. The last Gremlin who just wouldn't
die and they just showed he was still ALIGNE like, yeah,

(07:07):
that treat. What a treat? Yeah, I didn't. I didn't
grow up with it, and I don't think anyone in
my family had a particular attachment to it. So I
saw it for the first time a couple of years
ago and then rewatched it twice for this because there's
just like, there's so much going on in this movie.
It's even like genre wise, you're like, what who is

(07:29):
this for? Exactly? Like it's apparently it was for every
I mean, it was a very successful let's see, yeah,
an eleven million dollar budget and it made a hundred
fifty million dollars back. But then you produced Resolves. It's wild, okay,
So getting into it there, it is not surprising that

(07:49):
this movie was written, produced, and directed by all men
and all white men as well. You know, it almost
goes without saying because it's a movie made in the
nineteen eighties, but boy does that show this is an
early Chris Columbus joint. How old he wrote before and

(08:10):
it was an YU and he was actually this is
a spec script. He wasn't intending it to be written,
no kidding, but well, what what a treat to be
Chris Colon And actually the film I think it's like
maybe the film draft or one of the drafts before
Spielberg got his hands on it was even more Yes,
I read that that it was really gruesome, and Spielberg

(08:30):
was like, let's dial this back so that we can
show it to a broader audience. Spielberg tries to get
a lot of guys to dial back during this time,
with varying degrees of success. For for more, go to
our Indiana Jones episode where he tries to talk George
Lucas out of making Indiana Jones a rapist and fails.
It fails. Um so, you know complicit. So shall I

(08:53):
do the recap? Yeah, let's go for it. Okay, So Gremlins,
we opened with a guy going into a store in Chinatown.
It's the holiday season. We're not sure what city or
area of the country. This isn't I don't foggy. It
reminded me of the l A that is. What is
that movie that I hate with Harrison Ford Runner Unner.

(09:16):
Yeah it looks like the start of it. Yeah, yeah,
like the foggy blueness and yeah yeah I was. I
was like, oh, I hate that, I hate Blade Runner.
That's how I started the low key racism that's about
to happen. Yeah, yeah, we'll get there. So. Um So
he goes into Chinatown in whatever city that they're in,

(09:38):
somewhere where it snows um and he sees a creature
called magua, but we don't we don't see this creature
yet as the audience. But he's like, this will make
a perfect gift for my son. And then the store
owner is like, hey, this isn't for sale and you
shouldn't take this, because he was basically like, you can't

(09:59):
hand right because the maguay require a lot of care
and attention, and there are three rules for taking care
of the maguay, which is to keep them out of
bright light, especially sunlight, because it will kill them. Number two,
to keep them away from water, and number three, never
feed them after midnight. So he's like, great, here's two

(10:20):
hundred dollars. I'm taking this with me, and then we
meet his son, Billy, who, based on the opening a
few scenes of this movie, you're like, oh, he's buying
a small furry animal for his son. His son's probably
ten years old and he works. He's an adult with
a job at a bank. He could be also a
third year old playing at twenty year old, like I

(10:42):
wouldn't be. He is a young either way. You think
he's going to be a child, and he is an
adult with a job at a bank, although when his
dad gives him the gift, he's like, is it a puppy?
He is? Also his only friend is Corey Feldman is
like a ten year old, so I have to believe
that the original draft in the script was like him
as a kid, and then they aged him up for

(11:03):
some reason, but also just a bad choice for a
friend of any age. It's weird because you would, like,
I feel like this movie would almost work better if
it were a ten year old discovering mom instead of
a twenty year old man. But there's a lot of
like I think this movie kind of tries and fails
a bunch of times to make commentary on class, and

(11:24):
that's why the character was aged up, because there's like
a few references to like, well, he has to support
his family and that's why he works at the bank,
and because his dad's a shitty inventor where it's like
there were also a lot of weird like Disney. I mean,
I guess it couldn't have been references to this because
it was like references to Disney movies that may not
have even existed yet. But like the whole like dad

(11:47):
being a shitty inventor thing, You're like, oh, that's kind
of beauty and the Beastie. And then there's that whole
for a scene with what's the name of the mean
old lady that is like Mrs Deeg she's basically Mrs
Galt exactizard. She's a combo of Miss Gulch and of
Mr Potter from It's a Wonderful Life and also Scrooge. Right,

(12:10):
oh yeah, she's she's a lot of villains in one
and then ultimately I'm just like, it feels like her
character is supposed to be yea like the like she
has a main villain or something, but then but then
it kind of falls flat. My first reaction upon seeing
Ms Mrs Degle like, who I like this badassum and

(12:32):
like she doesn't take like she's just walking by and
just like stopping cars. Like she has her own agenda,
she has her own backstory. But but then she's a
capitalist like boozals ceramic head. You're like, this could go
a lot of ways. She's killing dogs. So Billy works
at a bank. He has a dog, and then there's

(12:53):
also a woman there named Kate who works at the
bank and his friends with Billy, and then Mrs Deegle
comes in and she's so much misgul that she's basically like, oh,
get to my pretty and your little dog to She
literally tries she's except if she goes a step further
and describes how she would kill her dog. But in
her defense, like the dog ruined like a precious ornament

(13:16):
of a ceramic, Like probably she saved money, Like we
don't know the backstory, but this vicious dog came and
destroyed it, this beautiful thing she had, maybe the last
thing her dad husband gave her. And like Stell brings
this dog to work. I mean, come at that's true.
The dogank necessarily there is here at Anderson Sophie's dog.

(13:40):
We had a degree in it. I feel like at
the bank, I don't know, maybe I'm being a stiff
by being like, don't bring your dog to the bank,
but I feel perhaps don't banks are Yeah, they're not
necessarily a dog friendly and the hell dogs don't belong there? Yeah,
dogs being happy places? Um okay. So then so we
meet Billy and Kate and Mrs Deagle and then the

(14:02):
man from the beginning gives the Maguay to Billy for Christmas,
and he's cute. He's fury. His name is is Gizmo.
He likes to sing. And then Billy's friend Pete, which
is Corey Felman's character, comes over and Gizmo his friend
is a ten year old who's dressed as a Christmas
tree for most of the movie, and he accidentally spills

(14:24):
a jar of water on Gizmo and then these little
like furballs burst out of his body and then they
grow into other magua, so he like, we find out
that they multiply when they come in contact with water.
But the new ones, the new magua, are not like Gizmo.
They're a little bit more rambunctious, and there's one with
a stripe on his head and he's like their leader.

(14:46):
And then Billy wakes up and his dog Barney is
like hanging outside tangled in like Christmas lights, and he
thinks it was Mrs Deegle, but it's like maybe it
was the Muguay. We don't know, uh, And then he
takes one of them to school and one of his like,
I guess former teachers run some tests on it, oh, right,
because he's not it's weird that he would just go

(15:07):
to the high school. He's a man man, Right, I
have no relationship with anyone in my high school anymore.
To go to a scientist, like a proper scientist. You're
an adult. You were at a bank, so like I didn't.
That didn't even register with me because he actually he
belongs there, right, He's like, oh, yeah, I just go

(15:27):
into the high school unless he is in high school
and he just also has a job at a bank,
and he's never we just never seen him at school.
It's not clear how old he's supposed to be. And
his best friend is ten, yes, so I don't know
what's what's going on with Billy. So then Billy feeds
the other magway and he wakes up and they've transformed

(15:51):
there in these like cocoon phase now, and he's like,
wait a minute, I didn't feed them after midnight. But
it turns out he did because they like cut the
cord to his alarm clock, and I tricked him so
that they would be fed after midnight. And then these
like egg cocoon things hatch and born are these scary, creepy,
violent gremlins because most still nice and cute, so he's fine.

(16:15):
So these gremlins start to reak havoc on the city.
There's like the one at the school who's like attacking
the teacher. Um, there's the ones at home that attack
his mom. The mom fights back, the mom fights back,
and we'll talk about that scene. But Stripe, the stripy
one survives and escapes, and then so Billy goes after Stripe.
Stripe jumps in a swimming pool and multiplies like crazy,

(16:38):
go to the y. They like read havoc on the
y is just open. It's fun to stay at um.
And so now there's an army of gremlins and they're
going all over town. They kill Mrs Deegle and they
kill a lot of people. They do kill the racist neighbor,

(17:00):
so that's a win. But also the man who looked
like Santa Claus who was in the beginning of the movie.
He was just simply buying a tree. There are some
of their kills are on point, others are, Yeah, they're
just killing at random, Pope Kate reveals in the eleventh hour.
Sorry Phoebe Ka plays Kate. She reveals in the eleventh
hour because originally she's like, I don't like Christmas, and

(17:20):
Billy's like, why I'm ten, I love Christmass and she's
at the end, She's like, well, since you asked, my
dad dressed up as Santa and got in our chimney.
First of all, why would you do that? And then
he got like, well he got confronted, fell and broke
his neck and chimney. She's like, and that's how I
found that Santa wasn't and she could smell him. She

(17:41):
knew there was like a it's a weird, like very
dramatic monologue. That also if you google it is in
comedy monologues. Uh, because actually the intention of that scene,
it was like Joe Dante Eisther the director, or Chris Cooper,
the dude who wrote it, Chris Cooper, Christmas Scoop, Chris Coop.

(18:02):
But they actually want they wanted that scene in because
it's it's both comedy and drama, so it plays with
the crowd. So I guess, like back in the day
when the movie came out, if you watch it with
like a full theater, people will be laughing at that
scene because it's jarring. But me watching it alone, I
was like, what is happening? Morbid? It's a moment of backstory.
Do we need this? This was like one of the
few times that a movie chooses to characterize. It's like, basically,

(18:25):
it's only female character, and you're just like, I didn't
need that. Yeah, I actually didn't want to know like that,
What did that add to the story? Nothing? Because for
a while I was on board with her because I'm
a curmudgeon who thinks Christmas is creepy and I don't
like it. And she's like, yeah, I don't celebrate Christmas,
and I'm fine with that. But then you find out
why and it's because like her dad had this grizzly

(18:48):
Christmas related death and it's like, Chris Columbus, you sick
of Like what are you talking about? That's crazy? There?
I don't know. I liked her character. Well, we can
get into that. I liked her character a lot where
she's you know, she's a working gal. She's she's like perfect,
we'll get it, like perfect girl next door with demon background,

(19:10):
with the most fucked backstory ever. I just don't God.
I mean, when I eventually fish back Chris Columbus and
I will Chris coop Columbus, Mr, I'm just like, why
did she why did you do her like that? There?
She worked so hard? Why did you have to kill
her dad and the most violent fashion. Okay, so then

(19:31):
the Gremlins are killing people. They invade a movie theater
where they watch snow White, which is how we know
that they're the villains of the movie because they love
snow White and stuffing dwarves. Refer back to our snow
White episode for more details. Um. And then Billy and
Kate blow up the movie theater and then it kills
all the Grandlins except again for Stripe, and then he goes.
Stripe goes into a department store and comes everything up right,

(19:54):
I remember place the Stripe has a gun and just
shooting that Billy. Not only does he have guns, but
they grandma's have these tiny guns like Greenlin Gruman size gun.
Did they get them? Like, oh boy, I just don't know.
And then Stripe tries to multiply himself again. But then Gizmo,

(20:16):
he's been racing around in a like little toy car,
and he zooms up and opens a window and lets
the sunlight in and then it melts Stripe in what's
a horrifying scene. Yeah, it's really disgusting. And then so
then the bad Grandmins have been defeated. And then at
the end of the movie, the Chinese store owner comes

(20:37):
back and he's like, you messed up, you white people.
I'm taking gizmo back because you don't know how to
do anything. The Dad's just like, oh man, sorry, yeah,
I think that would help. Oh boy. And that is
the movie. Yea, So why don't we take a quick
break and then we will come back to discuss and

(21:04):
we're back where to begin? Well, let's talk about should
we just go right into the racism of the movie,
part of the Sunday or the chocolate I mean, we
let's get into it. That's that's a lot. That's a lot. Yeah.

(21:28):
So the way Asian and specifically Chinese culture is represented
in this movie is um. I talked to a friend
of the cast, former guest Steve Shaun, who was our
guest on the Crazy Rich Asians episode, and she had
this to say about it. I'm just gonna read what
she wrote because it's great. She says, well, there's no

(21:51):
existence of furry critters in Chinese history that explode into
a mass of overpopulation overnight. Magua in Chinese literally means
demon or devil, but it doesn't have the traditional Judeo
Christian connotations attached. Sometimes a demon in Chinese culture is
simply a spirit that has returned to Earth or someone
with an unsettled debt. Demons aren't necessarily evil. The thing

(22:12):
I find funny about the Chinese origin of Gremlins is
that the movie Critter takes very little from any kind
of real Chinese mythology, but really builds on the nineteen
eighties fear of Red China. I really see the Magwis
or Chinese critters as just another extension of the Red scare.
These Chinese monsters are uncontrollable. They run rampant in America,

(22:33):
aping all the things that make America American. The Gremlins
are incredibly destructive once they've been let out of the bag,
so to speak. They run amuck during the height of
a very sacred holiday in America, which is Christmas. This
to me really reads as a what happens scenario if
something Asian does take over in America. This is supported
textually by a line of dialogue. Um. This is the

(22:55):
racist character who we mentioned, who hates all things for
and he says, you gotta watch out for gremlins because
foreigners put gremlins in their machinery. The same gremlins that
brought down our planes in World War Two. There's definitely
a weird other ring of Asian culture here. The only
Asian characters are mysterious speaking riddles, and if we think
of the Gremlins as Asian, then they also speak in Gibberish.

(23:17):
Gremlins rely pretty heavily on the idea of Orientalism, which
is that the Far East is inscrutable and it's impossible
for any Westerner to try, and once anyone tries, the
unleashed chaos that has to be contained by any means necessary.
Billy doesn't ever try to understand the Gremlins in the movie.
He only tries to defeat them, which makes sense if
you think of Billy in the American exceptionalism sort of way.

(23:39):
So that's everything that Sita had to say about it.
Thank you, Yes, that was great, And I mean that
says it all. Yeah, I mean the fact that it
is and and it's it's tricky with movies like this.
For me, it is anyways to try to identify because
it came out almost thirty five years ago. Now exactly
what you're supposed is to be laughing at and what

(24:01):
you're just because most of it now does not read
as jokes that hold up in any way, because a
lot of them are just racist. But the neighbor character
is the most overtly racist. Um and there's so much
coding in this movie, which will which see the references
and when we can get into but the neighbor is,
you know, like literally implying that I think people from

(24:24):
Asian cultures are putting gremlins in cars, and like the
title of the movie comes from this like bizarro racist
rant from the neighbor, which later becomes a town wide
accepted word for what they are. And it's just I
can't tell if audience is supposed to think that's funny.

(24:48):
Well maybe also, I mean that character ends up being
killed and so that and like the villainous Lady were
killed but created in such a way that people the
audience would hate them. So maybe they were intended to
be this racist, so their death would it would be
more comical than us having any empathy for their death.
I was confused about that because but then they also

(25:09):
killed Santa, and you're like, and then they try to
kill like Billy's mom, so they're they're like, they killed
the biology dude, So they're in first Steth I think too,
which is like one of the only people of color
in the movie, of course, is the first to die. Well,
there's some historical context to like the gremlin word, which
is it's from like I think we're all one or
World War two, which is like that's the word that

(25:30):
they would use explain why so many planes were falling
or there were so many technical errors. Is the idea
that these mysterious like demons or something are messing things up?
So but Chris Coope, Carter Carter, Chris Coop, Carter Columbus,
I'm just gonna each time I mess it up. He
apparently wrote it based off of the mice in his

(25:52):
living room. Yeah, but then he probably also any inherent
racism and may I've had I don't know, I'm just
I'm just right. Well, I mean that's a tricky thing
with this where it's like he it seems pretty well
accepted now. And I honestly wasn't familiar with this reading
of the movie and felt silly once I started to
read about it, because the second you read about you're like, oh,

(26:13):
of course, I'm a fucking idiot, Like yeah, and it's
it's confusing a little bit because you're just it's it's
I mean, it's possible that Chris Coop Carter Columbus did
not fully understand it was being an ignorant dumbass by
doing this. But then there are certain moments like with
the neighbor, where it's like you couldn't not know what
you were saying there, but maybe he thought he was

(26:36):
playing it for last. I don't know, Like it's just
I feel like there's just so much inherent racism and
people white people of this time that they're you know,
coding things certain ways, which because also the movie has
been criticized for coding the Gremlins as black youth and
playing into negative black stereotypes. That's like the big right.

(26:56):
So this comes from a blog post that I and
on the Internet ever heard of it. The blog post
is entitled the Racism We Never Noticed in Gremlins, and
this is by WordPress user Vegan Mystical Says in Ceramic Uncles.
In Celluloid Mammy's Patricia Turner writes that the Gremlins quote
reflect negative African American stereotypes in their dress and behavior.

(27:20):
They are shown devouring fried chicken with their hands, listening
to black music breakdancing and wearing sunglasses after dark and
newsboy caps, a style comment among African American males in
the nineteen eighties. I recently ordered that book. I haven't
read it yet, but I am really interested to read
this book by Patricia Turner Ceramic Uncles and Celluloid Mammies

(27:40):
um in that same in that same piece because I
read it as well, there was an interesting commentary that
I didn't pick up on, just strictly due to lack
of historical knowledge, specifically about that first scene where the
white man purchases uh like black coated character from the
from the Asian coded store. Okay, it reads as a

(28:06):
side note Asian characters, particularly Chinese, were grossly stereotyped in
the eighties films. As wise, I'm sourcerer types like we
just discussed from Gremlin's Karate Kid, kung Fu, etcetera. Moreover,
Asians also owned slaves and tended to side with white
supremacy and the color of success. Asian Americans and the
originals of the model minority land Wou explains, quote Chinese

(28:29):
immigrants and their children needed to be fully integrated into
American society unquote, and did so by sacrificing unique cultural
customs and engaging in American quote assimilation at the level
of full equality of social, economic, and political participation unquote.
So again, we don't really have any insight into where
the funk this scene comes from, but there's a lot

(28:51):
of readings of it that make it this very sinister
historical I wonder if twenty four year old Chris Carter
Cooper Columbus intended this, you can't find. The thing is
that the thing I've been most frustrating is you can't
find any evidence that he has spoken about this in

(29:11):
public or even considered it a legitimate criticism. Where it's like,
if you wrote this in your twenties and you're an
ignorant ship, then the absolute least you can do is
cop to it later, acknowledge it and be like, whoops off, Yeah,
I just thought it was a cool thing. Now, like
a mystical Asian dude selling the cute little furry animal

(29:32):
without realizing the huge implications right, Like, you know, because
there were so many movies like this with directors who
are alive well and still working at a very high level,
and it's the very, very fucking least you can do
is acknowledge that you were either being outwardly hateful or
we're really copying to these gigantic, ignorant blind spots. So,

(29:56):
Chris Columbus, you're on notice. There's all so a moment
from the movie Dear White People, where a professor says
to Tessa Thompson's character, might I also remind you that
I read your entire fifteen page unsolicited treatise on why
Gremlins is actually about suburban white fear of black culture,
and Tessa Thompson's character Sam White responds, the gremlins are loud,

(30:20):
talking slang, are addicted to Fred Chicken, and freak out
when you get their hair wet. Basically, I want to
read this fifteen page documents. Yeah, I feel like because
as as an outsider, foreigner human, I had the kind
of the same reaction to it too, where I felt
like Gizmo Maguai was the idea of becoming westernized. Like

(30:42):
if you don't if you don't break these rules, if
you stay within what we believe you should be as
an American, you're fine. But if you bring any outside
influence or outside things or changes in any way or come, Yeah,
the idea of like outside influence and you're breaking those
rules and you become gremlins, and you're scene as an
intruder to American society, right, so you shouldn't try and change.

(31:02):
I don't know, so yeah, for sure, like an adverse
reaction to it was so cute and it's resting because
like Gismos like whatever, the cutie that everyone remembers from
the movie. But it's like you just sort of see
in that character a level of like just complicitness and
willingness to play ball with the problematic white protagonists of
the movie. And Spielberg actually wanted to keep Gizmo in

(31:25):
the whole movie. Originally Gizmo turns into a gremlin, but
people were like, we need like a pal, We need
like a fun little site character that we reminded of
how cute everything is. So it worked. It did this movie.
I mean, yeah, this it's it's a hard wash, right
because like the connotation of that then becomes, oh, well,

(31:46):
like we've got this like cute thing that comes from
this exotic, mystical culture that white people don't understand, and
it's cute at first, but then it spawns these evil
things and it's like the message that that sends is
and the fact that it literally starts with a purchase,
and like a negotiation on a purchase is so sinister

(32:07):
and basically a colonized purchase, like you're taking it without
being allowed to because yeah, right, because the elder guy
in the shop is like, it's not for sale. But
then the sun is like like the grandson or there's
a younger kid there and he's like, no, we need
the money, like well we'll take it and here here
you go. But yeah, like the wise old guy is

(32:28):
like you shouldn't have this. But even though the wise
old guy is such a stereotypes just like everything is
just it's just a fucking yes. All those movies in
the eighties had this guy or had this like the
magical Asian like whoo, which is like for Asian actors,
and people have called like cool, we get roles. But

(32:48):
at the same time, it's like, not the roles that
are helping us, right, they're just perpetuating. Yeah, although stereotypes
and all of that racism. And that's the first scene
in the movie. It's just like it it's upsetting. And
then I mean Chris Columbus to speak of his catalog
Gremlins is the first movie he writes, and then he
goes on to write other like The Goonies, which I

(33:10):
haven't seen in a while, but if you do even
a little bit of reading about the Goonies, it has
many similar problems with race and it's just God and
then the two words Harry Potters, so it's you know,
funck him. You know, part of me wants to at

(33:31):
least hope that, like these filmmakers didn't intentionally set out
to portray these racist stereotypes and do all this racist coding.
But again, because just racism is so ingrained into white
people and society in America as a whole, they probably

(33:52):
didn't intentionally set out to do this, but they did
it anyway just because of the systematic racism. Yeah, it
would be different story if a movie like this came
out or we set up in the way it was
came out today. But then I'm just like, I trust
no bitch in regards to issues like this, because then
you find the George Lucas document that's like, no, I know,

(34:14):
he's a rapist, but he's the hero. I wish you
were more of a rapist. And so there are examples
of like movies of this era with creators knowing full
well what they're doing and doubling down kind of for
no reason other than the fact that they can and
they think it's funny or cool or whatever the funk
is going through these I don't know, it's or they

(34:35):
just like needed backstory for this animatronic idea that they
got like right right and make it Asian and it's
just like goodness gracious. Um, well, so that's that. Um.
Shall we talk about the female characters, which one come anywhere? There? Well,
there are three three. We've got missult, Miss Gulch, We've

(34:58):
got the Mom, and we've got Kate. There's also, um
the one that Miss Steagle talks to in the beginning
of movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's on screen for that
one scene. And we'll we'll talk about that later whenever
we discuss whether or not the movie passes the Bechdel test.
But um, okay, so let's start with Kate. UM. I
would argue that she is an example of a female

(35:19):
character in a movie that you can remove from the
script and the movie is virtually unchanged. I agree, the
story would play out basically the same exact way because
there's nothing that she does that advances the story or
changes the direction of the story. Um, she's basically a
sidekick to Billy who does nothing. Sir, could you take
Billy out of the movie. Also, like, I don't this

(35:42):
whole Like, I don't know, this is like a weird
not to give. I know we're talking about Kate now,
but there's like all this getting back to sort of
like the failed class commentary of this is. I mean,
I don't think this movie even remotely meant to make
this point, but it's like, oh yeah, like very often
all white communities that are middle class can be very racist.

(36:06):
I don't think that's what the movie is trying to
say at all. But like with Kate, we have like
a working girl character who it's weird because she checks
a lot of like boxes that I'm looking to get checked,
where we know what she does for a job. We
know she feels strongly about at least two things, which
is that she does not like Christmas and she would

(36:28):
like to save this bar. Uh. We know unfortunately, we
know a little bit about her back history, which is
the worst thing I've ever heard in my entire life.
But you can you're totally right. She can be removed
very easily. It's it's confusing to me that that we
do know so much about her given how little impact
she has on the plot, right, and then she is

(36:49):
essentially there to serve as the romantic interest for Billy
and to get a little kiss at the end. Right.
So I wanted to talk a little bit about that,
because they are called leagues and friends at the beginning
of the movie somewhere I'd stay around. Halfway through, Billy
asks Kate out on a date, and I've seen that.
I think it's fairly well handled because he's clear about

(37:10):
his intentions and you don't hear people ask ask for dates,
but he literally says, hey, if you're not doing anything
this Thursday, i'd I was wondering if you'd like to
go on a date with me? Like the language that's
he's there, I appreciate because I can't tell you how
many times the guy's been like, hey, do you want
to hang out sometime? And it's like, okay, in what context?
What do you mean? And then they're like I don't

(37:32):
know this, just like whatever, like when just hang out
and it's like, okay, are you asking me out on
a date? I need to know this, and it's remarkable.
It's been a year. I don't understand what's happening, right,
And they're like, I don't understand why you're asking me
to define something together. Okay, we have a child, we're married.
I don't understand. Are we in a relationship? We're married there, yeah,

(37:55):
I don't know. There's so many examples of like already
being in the middle of a meal and then being like,
oh my god, this is a date to this person, right, yeah,
So I don't know if just anyone who's asking anyone
else for a date, be clear about your intentions for Billy,
but Billy, also be clear about your age, be like,
just go on a date. I am also blank years

(38:16):
old and ten? Is that okay? Are you ten? Are
you funny? Are you thirty? We don't like the movie Jack. Also,
I'm Benjamin Button bej Um. And then she says he
asks her out for a date. She says I'd love
to and he's like, okay, yeah, that's great. We can
square away the details on the phone, and it's just like, okay,

(38:36):
I appreciated how that happens. But then later on they're
fighting the gremlins in the department store and then he
just like out of nowhere, kisses her, like there was
no lead up to that. I feel like he does say,
like go look for lights, and then they kiss. He
gives her a task, and that gets everyone horned up.
I simply cannot feel sexual feelings unless I'm given a

(39:00):
job to get a task. If I'm not caring for someone,
am I relevant to the world. Well, speaking of care,
so like after the battles have happened between you know,
Billy and the Gremlins, Gizmo is there and like he
gets kind of wrapped up and he's like, here, caregiver woman,
take care of this thing while I go off and fight.
So that was cute. Well there's also uh, oh, you

(39:25):
know what, let's take a break. Let's take a break
and then we'll talk more. Very very organic break take
and we're back. I'm sorry, I just snowplowed to you.
People do dive via snowplow on this most snow. That's true.

(39:45):
So yeah, she's exists in the story to basically be
the cute girl that Billy likes and serves really no
other function. We're talking about Kate. She's like the yeah,
the perfect girl. Next door who is just always there
for him whenever he needs them. And then all these
movies too, it's just like the white male, geeky nerd
savior who gets the hottest girl in town or the

(40:07):
only girl in town. I don't know. That's like, at
least it's not as bad as a John Hughes movie,
but it's still like, really, Billy has no skills. He
is a nice boy. He's not like a you don't
know his demon backstory ten and that's what he hasn't

(40:27):
said yet, right you. Unlike a lot of male heroes
in movies, especially from this area era but also still today,
they carry so much like toxic masculinity and machiesmo and Billy,
to this movie's credit, is not like that. He has
no skill except that he can draw comics. He can draw,
He draws, and he counts money and he I mean, hey,

(40:52):
neither is a crime. And he hangs out with little
Corey Fellmon, which is actually a crime. We're not sure
how old he is. I just wanted to point out
in regards to the mom scenes, so we don't know
a lot about the mom other than she's a mom
and so we see her. She'd be cooking a lot.

(41:12):
She's supporting her mediocre husband. She's very supportive in a
way that's like there's there's something going on, Like she's
like the most supportive person, Like, honey, I'm like, this
thing is broke. She's like, Oh, don't worry, honey, that's great.
Here's your dad's another and invention made Like I feel
like if she just said it, if she acted it

(41:34):
out and just like a little slight or more annoyed way,
we totally get the backstory of this family. Want Yeah,
I'm like, let's see her without xanax and see like
what happened. But I feel for her because I'm like,
your husband is a dud dude. He can't even crack
an egg. He's a doric loser. He seems to be
hemorrhaging money by pursuing his dreams and by dropping two

(41:56):
d on these mystical pets just to get a gift
that he didn't consult his wife about. Like he just
assumes she would also be okay with this maguai furry
character being in the house an unknown species that we
don't understand how it is to take care of. You
just assume you're coming to a manual with scary sounding rules.

(42:18):
Take care of it when your son's at the bank.
And also high school or elementary school, like you don't know,
there's the or college or grad school. This is a
great time to mention that I do have a master's
degree in script writing from Boston University. But any time
current them. Okay, the what I wanted to talk about
was the mom fighting scene. This is a very typical

(42:40):
scene of this era, but also kind of still of
almost any era, where you know, it's like a woman
is fighting and she's defending herself and she is to
some extent victorious, even though she ultimately needs to be
rescued uh and is immediately handed off to a man
and is like she's give her literally just handed up

(43:01):
like shoved into him and then by bye mom. Rest
of movie. But but the thing we've talked about a
lot on this show is the only weapons she has
are domestic weapons. She's only allowed to defend herself using.
She has a knife, but it's when she was just
using to cook. She kills him using a blender. She
kills him using a microwave, like their every way she

(43:22):
has to defend herself. As impressive as it looks and
is our domestic tools. And also when you take in
the whole racial issue with this whole movie, it's a
domestic white woman absolutely slaughtering a bunch of white character.
So that is actually not as triumphant, and it's just

(43:45):
it's not it's it's a mess. It's not. I came
into this being like, oh man, that seems pretty cool,
and I'm like, oh yeah, never mind, Yeah, you're right,
peel back those layers, and then you realize us. And
then and then contrast that with so, as you mentioned, Jamie,
she does need to be saved, so she kills three
of the four grandmans who attack her. So she kills

(44:07):
the first three, but then a fourth one comes at
her and she can't fight it off from the tree
and she can't fight it off, So then Billy shows
up and saves her, and he while she has been
using the blenders and the microts and the kitchen appliances,
he comes in, grabs the sword off the wall, hits
the Groundlin with the sword, and launches it into the fire.
So these are like very typical, like manly, like actual

(44:30):
weapons that he uses to defeat the Groundlinds with. And
then by contrast, she has used these like very domestic,
typically feminine, and Katie U the in dress, Yes, she
was using a camera like very like not very violent,
but veryistic womanly. And I suppose there's an argument to

(44:53):
be made for like, Okay, so she is resourceful, she's
using what she has at her disposal. But but the
fact that we see the again and again. We talked
about this in the Halloween episode with um the Lori
Stroke character using like clothing hangers and knitting needles to
try to fight off a killer, and then Indiana Jones
star she uses a frying pan to hit a guy
over the head with a lot of frying box and

(45:16):
the history of cinema. You know, I've tried and it
doesn't work really well. You'd have to get like a
cast iron skillet, like a really heavy like iron skillet.
But yeah, so but yeah, so we see this again
again and or the other option. If a woman is
fighting men usually or anything, it's usually like a female

(45:38):
action hero who wraps her legs and her crotch around
a guy's face and then like the body slams. And
also the idea that they can only defend themselves to
a certain point, like they can't fully defend themselves. They
always need to be saved Halloween too. Not in Halloween,
they can give them thirty more seconds. They would have
figured out a solution. I didn't need to be there,

(46:00):
but they always Yeah, but it's always so. Even though
this movie doesn't have like the typical macho male hero,
it does like fall into the many trappings of these,
like well, the man still has to stay able. Woman
and mom kill only fight using mom stuff. And then
later on he blows up a movie theater with like
this big explosion, which is again a very like macho

(46:22):
manly way to defeat something. And then Kate's just like,
I don't know what did here's a camera. Yeah. Also,
my dad dressed up in Santa and then died. I
can't get over it. I wish she'd had more of
those soliloquies, just like more backstory. What if all of
her family members had died in a horrifying way, dressed
as a seasonal character always going through the chimney to

(46:46):
that was dressed as the Easter Bunny. She put herself
in an egg, So that's why I don't It annoyed
me that that's the reason that she ends I mean
it makes sense for the character and for anyone that
you wouldn't like a holiday kills your father. But I
want to see representation on screen of a person who

(47:06):
doesn't like Christmas because Christmas is creepy. And I know
I'm going to get a lot of ship for saying,
but Christmas is creepy. I hate Christmas music. It's all
those like slow like him like songs, especially like Silent
Night that is creepy. Santa Claus an old white guy
deciding if children are good or not, that's creepy. Nativity

(47:27):
scenes are frightening. And I also hate the capitalism and
consumerism of the holiday in general. I will said, I
enjoy the spirit of giving and the emphasis on like
being with loved ones around the holiday time, but everything
about Christmas is creepy. Cut a tree and you watch
it die, right, Yeah, you're just like destroying nature. There's
a lot of things wrong with Christmas. Well, I you're

(47:50):
allowed to love Christmas. I do. Um. But with that,
as I hinted that before, there are so many movies
about Christmas, so few movies. There's a movie called Winter Solstice,
which is the holiday that I celebrate around this time.
Of year, but I don't know what it's about, and
no one saw it, including me. This is just the
time of year where Caitlin and I drink a lot

(48:12):
and watch Titanic. It's the most wonderful time of the year.
The version of the holiday season that I have cultivated
for myself I now enjoy very much because it literally
is just like watching Titanic on repeat, and that's we're
really good at that. But this movie actually didn't come
out during the Christmas holiday. Came out earlier because they

(48:32):
were wanted to, I think fighting against Ghostbusters. So I
came out like the summer or something like that. Another
movie riddled with problem. I can't stand Ghostbusters. I simply
can't stand it. Bothers me. Anyways, this movie sucks. Also,
yes it does, and it's great. Gizzy is a sweetheart.

(49:01):
But my point is, let's see more movies and stories
about holidays that are celebrated, usually by marginalized people because
they are Muslim, or they are Jewish, or or do
the way my family did, which is I forced Christmas
upon my family because I didn't want to be the
one kid in my town Irish Catholic towny didn't do it. Yeah,

(49:23):
it sucks that you felt you had to do that,
but that is a very common, huge thing. Yeah. And
then one there is one Christmas where my parents totally
got into it, like like we would decorate our house
top to bottom Christmas decorations and we would have Latter
Day Saints. Solicitors always come to our door. And one
time they came to our door and they're like, do
you believe in Jesus? And my mom had like a
Christmas brooch or's like a tree behind her presence Jesus,

(49:46):
like like a placard or whatever. She's like, no, no,
we don't know what that these Christmas to us is
just like it's just a gift. One morning, I don't
have the sweater anymore. But one morning she makes us
new to make a dress up in like all the
same and take a photo. She buy us all the
same sweaters. The sweater somewhere in our house when she

(50:06):
got it from Walmart, of course, and it says Christmas
and as a tree an American holiday. Yeah, sinister, it
was the one person in the family photo. I think
it was like fifteen. I'm like, no, mother, I don't agree.
I was like, you brought this upon us. My family
had an opposite thing where we did celebrate Christmas until

(50:29):
I was I think like sixteen or so, and the
mom I was like, my mom was like, no, we're
atheists and we're going to celebrate Winter Solstice instead, which
was basically the same exact thing as us celebrating Christmas,
because we still like put up a tree and stuff,
but we just got gifts four days earlier on December.

(50:49):
It was pretty cool. Um. Does anyone have any other
final thoughts about the film Gremlins? I wanted to say
one last thing about and this is, you know, for
for us as kind of you know, an obvious point,
but miss Deegle, just of the three female characters, making
one the shrewiest shrew who's ever shrewd? Is like, it's

(51:11):
an easy choice that they certainly did make every easy.
Did you guys noticed that one of the Gremlins in
the bar scene was wearing her red wig because after
they killed her, but she wasn't wearing a wig in
that scene. She was like, I'll mature out they took
they killed her, and I assumed perused her clothes and
was wearing their clothes. So I think the clothes are
wearing in the bar scene and then later in the

(51:31):
cinema or the clothes of the people from Ordered. Maybe
that's where they got the tin to gun and think
about it, I have like a big thought that came
as I was watching it. So I at this point
nothing is cannon. That's happened in Gremlin's too. I understand
Gremlins too. It's it's more justified or it's explained. But
we don't know the gender of what a magua is

(51:51):
or like what a gremlin is. It's just like a
gender neutral thing, and so we're assuming their males because
we just assumed males. Yeah, I guess I was referred
to they use okay, but that But also they're making
it because how do they know, right well, gender doesn't
apply to animals like it does to people, but they

(52:16):
do seem gendered as male and the persona they're like
person there act like humans later on. But I know
in the second movie there is a female gremlin and
it she looks like you have a bow or something.
She has like makeup on, and I don't know she
has restices. She might have rested according to the key

(52:37):
and Peel Gremlin's to sketch that I love so much.
Peel is going around the room like the writer's room
and just like asking for pitches for gremlin types, and
the one woman in the room says, could there be
a female gremlin? And Peel's character responds, lipstick boobies, bitch,
you had me a little gremlin for JJ, And then

(52:58):
he later says, that's we need a woman in the
writer's room. So I have not seen Grmlin's too. I
don't know how that female quote unquote gremlin is stylized,
but I'd have to imagine that it's very like egregiously,
like she's got a pink bow or she has boot totally. Yeah.
Oh god. So just in general, when he asked when

(53:23):
they got the three rules in the beginning, and this
is just not even It's just like a general note
about the home movie. It could have all been solved
if you asked, oh, why do you what happens if
you break those rules? Right? What are the steaks? What
are the stakes? Alright? Cool? Yeah? Yeah, okay? Cool? Bye?
Oh okay. Then actually, unfortunately I cannot make this PreCure.
It's a fault on both sides. A little kid should

(53:45):
have been like you know they will mass murder your town.
But you know twos, I shouldn't be spending two hundred
dollars if my ten year old son's working at the bank. Yeah,
I gotta go. Um. I did a quick Google search
for female gremlin, and the results show a fremlin with
very noticeable red lipstick, with long green hair, and she's

(54:06):
wearing what appears to be a like cheetah print bra
and mini skirt. Yeah, it's like the female eminem. Yes,
just like she's like hes. You gotta make sure men
want to fun. That for a video I always found
really helpful of like female coded characters or creatures in

(54:28):
movies and in media in general. Is from the past
guest of the show, Anita Sarkasian. I made a great
video about five years ago called the mis Male Character,
and her video is about how it applies to video
game characters in particular, like starting with Miss pac Man
and on, but just sort of unpacking how we tend
to repackage the same character but with a very like

(54:51):
traditionally feminine appearance, and they're usually weaker characters, and they're
always sexualized and given tits where tits don't beat that.
Oh yeah, um, last thing I'll say this is a

(55:14):
movie where within the movie, characters are watching other movies
where they're watching It's a Wonderful Life, they're watching a
Clark Gable movie, they watch snow White. There's like always
screens and there's always movies on them, which you know
is perhaps a commentary on how influential media is. But
there in one of the scenes, they're like a Clark

(55:36):
Gable movie is on the screen, and there's the next
I don't know what movie it is, so listeners, if
you know, let us know. But um, a woman opposite
Clark Gable says it takes a certain kind of guy,
and then he responds with and that guy and he's
a certain kind of dame. And then that those two
lines get repeated in sort of like voiceover kind of

(55:56):
thing when Gizmo is driving around and the toy car
in the department store. And it makes no sense to
me as to why it makes it seem like him
hearing that would inform a certain decision of his But
I can't understand why does that certain character, Well, no,

(56:17):
it's not himself, it's not gismas saying. It is the
actual dialogue from the movie that just gets yes, yes, okay,
I remember, and so it does. I don't know why
that choice was made. It's such a specific choice, but
it doesn't seem to inform anything that happens in that scene.
It's also at the end of the movie when the
magical store owner comes back, he's telling them, like, you

(56:40):
shouldn't be letting Gizmo watch television or eating sex. And
it's true because like Gizmo is watching all these like
mail lead like what media is portraying life to be
or who the leaders or who the heroes of and
you know, he adapts it, so we have in fact
infected Gizmo with the patriarchy. This is like another the

(57:00):
trend that I think gets really popular in the eighties
and sort of continues on is like the whole like oh,
we're like post movies, We're we're like commenting on blah
blah blah and like this' that's first of all, I'm
so bored. I'm dead. But like they show so much
other stuff, but they don't really comment on it other

(57:23):
than like it's a wonderful life. That was a happy movie. Anyways,
this one's fucked up. So here's the movie, Like the
and just like it. It almost listen doing things like
this ends the end game of it, as we end
up having to watch Shrek in the future because all
of a sudden, it's like, oh, every post modern reference

(57:44):
is the cutest thing in the whole world, and then
all of a sudden, it's the movie, and then we
had to watch that movie. The Clark Gable movie I
am seeing was called to Please a Lady. Oh wow,
there's also who knows better than Clark Gable and an
invasion of the body Snatcher is oh right, that was one.
That's when the gremlin cocoons are hatching. I took note

(58:05):
of the first movie that was on the awning of
the movie theater. It was a Boy's Life, and then
it was which is a movie that happened later on
in life like it's it's a fake movie at that point,
but later it's the movie with I think Leonardo Dicaprios, Oh,
this is a great time to bring up Titanic then

(58:25):
and then snow White. Snow White was sleeping women. I
think Alfred Milena refused to participate in this movie. Is
he read the script? He's just like this, there's no
parts for him. Riddled with this is riddled. He was
originally the voice of Schismo. He wasn't and then they
were like, sorry, Alfred, we could get Mandel's big shot Mandel's.

(58:48):
He has a tiny person's voice. Well, I think the
question on all of our minds is how many nipples
does a magua have? And that's a good question. Well,
we do seek cats. Mrs Goal has cats in the movie,
and a lot did a lot of cats, which is
demonizing owning a lot of cats. I think I loved
that one of her cats was named old dollar Bill.

(59:11):
She has one thing on her mom baby, get money girl.
I want to name a cat dollar Bill and wait
for it to get old. Oh gosh, he does anyone
have anything else? Honestly? I will watch Grandlin's two now.
I kind of want to, kind of want to because
that's the one everyone talks about more, I feel because
it's just like all the there's like a bat Grandma,

(59:32):
There's a spider Grandma. There's all sexy female one and
Gizmo dances. GisMo dances dances. That does sound fun? Probably
damn it? Well, what are you doing later, Jamie? Let's
watch Gremlins too? Okay? Should we determine whether or not
this movie passes the Becktel tests Kidoki Well, as you

(59:55):
hinted at jan there is a scene between a character
named Mrs Harris and Mrs Deagle. The exchange goes something
along the lines of like, hey, my husband got another
job and I've taken up sewing and Mrs Eagles like
what are you saying? And she's like, well, we're not
going to make any money for two weeks, so like,
can you give us more time? And she Mrs Deagle

(01:00:16):
says the bank and I have the same purpose to
make money, and she's like, dollar ability needs to eat
his big fan of Mrs Mrs Harris is like, but
Mrs Deagle, it's Christmas. And then she's like, well now
you know what to ask Santa for or don't you?

(01:00:37):
And then phoebe Case's character cons and it's like, actually
Santa isn't really want to know how I know? Not
this again. She goes telling the story every Christmas. It's
like six people live here, we know. Okay. So Mrs
Harris's husband Joe does get mentioned in this scene, but
you could possibly make the argument that there's like at

(01:00:57):
least a two line exchange where the bank and I
have the same purpose to make money. Mrs Deagle, it's Christmas,
although Christmas does have Christ and Christ was a man.
And then she also says Santa who is also a man.
And also we don't know those characters first names. I
don't know if that matters. She under IMDb is credited

(01:01:18):
as Mrs Joe. Oh, Mrs Joe. Here she's exclusively defined
by the mention married sick. Okay. Also, that scene ends
on again again, Like Chris Columbus, I it seems like
a gun for fucking something. But she at the end
of her son is like I'm hungry. She's like me too,

(01:01:40):
and You're just like what what? That's not resolved in
the movie. But when he wrote, he's like, it's like
I've seen It's a wonderful life. My movie is going
to be just like that, but with monster and resolution poverty.
Chris Columbus coop also, could you have more? Is there
a worse person to be named after? Christopher Columbus? I mean,

(01:02:02):
of course he makes racist movies right, of course, practically
in his d n A. Unless I'm missing something, I
think that's the only scene in which two women interact
in the whole movie, and I went through it again
and I couldn't find one. Yeah, so, and I'm gonna
I'm gonna say this, this scene does not pass because one,
we kind of know that character's name, but like she's

(01:02:22):
defined as Mrs Joe Harris, so like that's not great.
We also only see her in that one scene, and
then I think, never again does it pass? When Mrs
Deagles talking to her cats, I was saying that too.
My only other question is the cats are small? All
tell her? Bill gives her some great advice, really opens
up some discourse in the household. Um. Yeah, I'm gonna

(01:02:46):
say this as a note for me on passing the
pectel test. I was back and forth, but ultimately I
know as well, Yeah, god damn it. Chris. Well, shoot, hey,
let's write the movie on a nipple scale zero to
five nipples based on its portrayal of women. Um, gonna
give this a half nipple. And maybe that's even being

(01:03:06):
generous because I think it's probably for the scene where
you do see the mom character being active and defending
herself at least for a little bit, but again, she
has to be safe. She's only using domestic appliances to fight,
and then the Kate character really serves no function in
the movie except to be the romantic interest of the

(01:03:27):
male hero. The other main female character, who is the
like pro capitalist villain, she is so cartoonishly characterized that
she's like basically not even a real person. Between that
and the egregious racism of the movie is not good.

(01:03:49):
So I'll give a half nipple, and that belongs to Gizmo,
who I'm pretty sure does have a nipple in there somewhere.
I'm gonna go half nipple as well for other and
she said, and also for goingent of the way of
writing a female character in Kate where we at very
least know that she has a job, we know a

(01:04:11):
little bit about her. She is treated by her romantic
interest generally respectfully, which is a little more than you
would get in most movies of this time, especially considering
this is like peekue John Hughes. So everything I don't
know this movie is like it's it's I didn't like it.

(01:04:33):
I didn't like it, but Jim was so cute and
that's hard for me. And so why it's there though,
to distract us? I know, it's like I want the
lunchbox like, why is the woman crop down? Okay, small

(01:04:54):
I did audibly go oh when he was on the dartboard.
You're like, oh God, I googled way too much that
that scene is there because they were so angry. Okay,
So basically Gizmo was only supposed to be there at
the beginning, but since they made it the whole movie,
it costs such a pain for animatronic people and like
because they had to create ways for to walk or talk.

(01:05:14):
So that scene was there for the crew so they could,
you know, basically not have immobilized and also just show
how much anger they had towards having him there for
all the movie. Whoa so so in the scene the
Grundlins are bullying Gizmo, but it's really the true that
was bullying guess can't catch a bread Gizz? Well, I'm

(01:05:35):
gonna go yes, my nip goes to or my half
nip goes to Gizz as well. Okay, I'll give because
I actually so just watching this as like a piece
of fluff without analyzing it or anything like that, just
as a movie watcher. I enjoyed it, but the more
I got into it, come on, why no, I want
to like this movie? Because Kissima was so cute. But

(01:05:56):
as for the portrayal specifically of women, I would give
it like half yeah, because it just they were there,
but they were in part of the storyline. Really, they
could have disappeared. There's no point to them. The mother
was supportive and just locked in that house, and I
think she was letting out maybe a lot of frustration
during that scene where she was murdering all the fremlins.

(01:06:17):
I like to read to that scene where she's like, yes,
it is for all your stupid invention. Really, Oh, I
guess I have to destroy this to kill that one. Okay,
I'm sorry that happens. It's not a cappuccino maker. It
makes tar dumb husband God watching her to choke that down.
You're like, girl, let's go Elma and Louise, let's get
out of here, get out of you can go out.
And also the wife of the Maga guy, sorry, she

(01:06:41):
was also so supportive of him, like all the wives
that were there were just like, yes, honey, of course, honey, definitely, honey,
whatever you say, honey, I'm just gonna stay in my
little cave house and never see the light of day.
It literally was the Maga neighbor and then they killed
her too, so she didn't get anything out of it.
So yeah, I would say for women it's pretty much
a half, but for Gizzy, I would give it a

(01:07:01):
five portrays. Thank you so much for being here in
that voice. Where can people follow you online? And what
would you like? Whatever you want? You can see me

(01:07:25):
on the Instagram where I sometimes do things at muson
z and Jamie and I wrote an animation of sci
fi Ladies show say that specifically for women, No, it's
for everybody. It's called human kind Of. That's on facebook
Watch that we wrote with co wrote with Diana McCory
and she's the best, and we do voices on it,

(01:07:48):
which is cool. It's on facebook Watch if you're on that.
And uh, I have a wrote on a sketch show
that is going to be on a network at some
point for a good shot out. Yeah, that's how TV works.
And also Mission desigs z y x X as a
sci fi improvised podcast. I play the voice of a
They're just like an old sentience spaceship who used to
be a movie star called bar Jerry and Jade and uh,

(01:08:10):
I don't know she she. I've tried to make her
pass the Bechdel Tests as much as like good Yeah, well,
thanks again for being here. You can follow us on
all the platforms at becktel Cast. You can subscribe to
our patreon ak Matren going to patreon dot com slash
becktel Cast. It's five dollars a month and you get

(01:08:31):
two bonus episodes every month. And also it tis the
freaking season to go to our t public store. We
just released a bunch of new designs for all of
your winter sols to shopping meats. Yes, so if you
want a queer icon baby grunch shirt, now is the
time I made I think maybe one of my most

(01:08:51):
cursed drawings yet with the baby. It's it's gorgeous. Um. Also,
we have a West Coast tour coming up. You were
going to San Francisco sketch Fest. We are going to
Portland and Seattle. Uh. Those ticket links are on our website.
If you go to back toelcast dot com and click
on the live appearances tab, you can find tickets to

(01:09:14):
those we're doing movies such as The Breakfast Club, Fight Club.
It's a lot of club, The Little Mermaids in the
Club Door we should have done. What are what are
the other First Wives Club. What are we thinking. We'll
do that eventually, But the movies we are doing Our
Little Mermaid and Sleepless in Seattle as well, so in
that area, come on down. We love you, respect to you,

(01:09:40):
and and happy holidays whichever holiday you observe by